Welcome to the new "World": why does Russia need its own space station?

166

"Moongate" of discord


In April 2021, an event took place that at first few people paid attention to, but which, as it turned out, will predetermine the development of Russian manned astronautics for many years to come. Russia suddenly announced to everyone its firm intention to obtain a "national" orbital station.

She has already managed to get several names, which are causing a fair amount of confusion. It is called both the "National Orbital Space Station" and the "Russian Orbital Service Station" (many have probably heard the well-established abbreviation ROSS), and more succinctly - ROS or the Russian Orbital Station. It will become an alternative for the ISS, which in turn became the conditional successor to the Soviet Mir.



"The ISS is seriously outdated, and the government suggests talking with foreign partners in advance."

- said Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Borisov on the air of the program “Moscow. Kremlin. Putin ". Russia will withdraw from the ISS project from 2025.

What does this mean? Is Russia really “out of the way” with the ISS or is it just political games? Politics in this whole stories plays a very important role, but the Russian segment of the ISS is indeed in a deplorable state. The air leaks that followed the cosmonauts and the failure of the SKV-2 air conditioning system in the Zvezda module speak eloquently about the situation. And during the relatively recent experiment "Constant" there was smoke on the scientific equipment: fortunately, no one was hurt. The docking of the module somewhat brightened the situation "The science", but there are also a lot of questions for him.

The West is also talking about the fact that the ISS is not eternal, naming, however, rather vague terms of abandoning it: either the middle of the decade, or the 2030th.


Source: roscosmos.ru

One thing is obvious - the change is just around the corner. The station will be replaced by a new lunar orbital station Gateway. At one time Russia with its colossal experience in space was seen in the Gateway project. However, at first, the West demanded that Roscosmos work according to their technical standards, and in January 2021 it became known that Russian specialists were excluded from the expert group discussing the prospects for creating a lunar station.

In theory, everything can change, but so far the "trend" is obvious: Russia and the West are not on their way. Thus, the manned cosmonautics of the Russian Federation is in a difficult situation - sooner or later they will abandon the ISS, the country does not participate in the Gateway project, and a manned flight to the moon seems to be an expensive and distant event.

General arrangement of the station


And what about the Russian orbital station?

"There is an understanding that the funds required to maintain the ISS, maintain equipment, and the funds to deploy a separate national orbital station are about the same money."

- Dmitry Rogozin said recently.

There are some doubts about this: a common project is one thing, a national station is another. There is one more thing. For Russia, the creation of its own orbital station is a new experience.

On the other hand, if you look at the situation from the outside, then in theory the possibility of building a station takes place. The country has a means of delivering into orbit both the modules of the future station and astronauts aboard the ROSS.


What exactly will the new station be? In short - it will become something like the above-mentioned "World". The station's orbital altitude will be from 300 to 350 km. According to data from open sources, at the first stage, the ROSS will consist of several modules: a scientific and energy module; modified nodal module "Berth"; base module and gateway module.

The first stage is calculated until about 2030. The second (2030-2035) involves the launch of several more modules, namely, a target, target production module and a platform for servicing spacecraft.

The main component of the future station will be what is now known as a scientific and energy module or NEM. An important mission falls on his shoulders: he must become the control center of the station, as well as support the life and health of astronauts. Initially, they wanted to enter NEM into the ISS in 2025. Now the product will have to be slightly modified for the new station.

The NEM module is rather large: its weight will be slightly more than 20 tons. The volume of the sealed compartment of the module is 92 m³. For comparison, the hermetic volume of the Zvezda module is 89,3 m³.


The NEM has one important feature: it has only one docking station. The stern is occupied by the unpressurized part of the module, where, in particular, the solar panels are located. Therefore, the real birth of the station will take place only after the connection of the nodal module to it.

It is assumed that he will receive six docking stations that can be used for a variety of purposes. The central nodal module will allow, if necessary, to replace any other: this is very important, because situations can be very different (including those requiring immediate and decisive measures).

An important element of the station is the gateway module. It is he who will allow astronauts to go into outer space. One of its features should be the presence of two gateways at once, which will be a kind of safety net in case of an unforeseen situation.

As for other components, it is difficult to judge with certainty. Previously, it was planned to deliver a commercial module to the station that would accommodate four tourists. They wanted to equip it with two large windows in order to make the stay of people there more comfortable.

In any case, by the time the practical implementation of the project begins, much can change, although fundamental decisions, such as the choice of the first module, as far as can be judged, have already been made.

Ships and missiles


In Russia recently, they often talk about new rockets and spaceships. Thus, the country continues to work on the super-heavy Yenisei, which, if it appeared now, would become the most powerful rocket in existence (while the first place is occupied by Falcon Heavy from SpaceX). In addition, they are actively working on a new manned spacecraft, which many know under the name "Eagle" or "Federation", as well as its smaller version, "Eaglet".


At the same time, even the available technical means should be enough to implement the plan. The modules for the station can be launched with the help of the new heavy rocket "Angara-A5", capable of putting almost 25 tons into a low reference orbit. In the future, its more powerful versions, "Angara-A5M" and in the region of 5 and 25 tons, respectively. Astronauts can be delivered to the station on the Soyuz MS spacecraft, which, although morally obsolete, continues to remain a reliable means of delivery.

Science or country prestige?


According to Dmitry Rogozin, most of the experiments at the station will be carried out in open space, and the main payload will be on the outer board. In theory, this somewhat increases the scientific value of ROSS, but science as such is of deeply secondary importance for the project.

At one time, American professor Robert Park said that most of the scientific research planned for the ISS is not of primary importance for science, and artificial weightlessness can be used to simulate the conditions of the ISS. Robert Park is not the only critic of the ISS. Others were embarrassed by the price of the program, which has long exceeded $ 150 billion.

But if space stations are "the last century," why are the Americans and their allies creating a Gateway? In fact, everything is somewhat more complicated here. Gateway will become part of the large-scale Artemis program aimed at landing astronauts on the moon and creating a permanent base there. In theory, this can be done without the Gateway, but so far the station is seen as an important element of the program. It will act as a kind of staging post: that is, a conditional "gateway" leading to the surface of the moon.


In theory, Russia has its own answer. It is too early to judge what will come of it, but Roscosmos wants to explore the moon together with China, creating an inhabited base there.

"Thus, we by mutual efforts contribute to the advancement of human progress in the field of aerospace technologies and socio-economic development."

- commented recently on the situation in the China National Space Administration.

Allegedly, there is already an understanding of where to start. As stated at the presentation at the Day of Chinese Space in Nanjing, the first stage - "reconnaissance" - will be carried out by 2025. On the part of Russia will be presented unmanned landing stations "Luna-25" and "Luna-27", as well as the orbital "Luna-26". From the side of China - Chang'e-6 and Chang'e-7 stations.

The initiative of the joint base itself is not so bad, but how to implement this "mega-project" together with the ROSS station, which is also designed for completely different purposes, is a big question. It is already clear that each of the programs will require huge funds and incredible efforts of the entire space industry.
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    1. -20
      9 August 2021 05: 34
      Dear comrades! Put things in order on Earth, in Russia in particular, they gathered on the Moon laughing
      1. +13
        9 August 2021 05: 41
        Quote: Pessimist22
        Dear comrades! Put things in order on Earth, in Russia in particular, they gathered on the Moon laughing

        Typical commonplace conversations at the level of housewives. And what prevents us from "putting things in order on Earth" and developing the rocket and space industry? After all, this is the sphere of high technologies, which is the locomotive of science-intensive sectors of the economy. Deep space is very closely related to Near Space, and this is a whole cluster of commercial satellites. The launch services market alone exceeded $ 10 billion back in the 300s! fellow There is an endless land of science-intensive works and technologies. Finally, there are jobs, the demand for engineers, and so on. What does not suit you in the rocket and space industry is not clear .. request
        1. -20
          9 August 2021 05: 54
          Do I understand conversations at the level of government in your country? I don’t know what’s stopping you, but judging by the news, there’s a mess both on earth and in space. Russia is far from Japan in technology, but in the defense industry we have C300, C400, C500, the best in the world, and the Japanese have achieved results in all areas. : from biotechnology to robotics.
          1. +8
            9 August 2021 06: 00
            I will repeat my question: what specifically does not suit you in the rocket and space industry? It does not need to be developed while you "put things in order on Earth"? - in other words, like Bruce Willis, save the planet ... recourse
            1. +18
              9 August 2021 06: 59
              Specifically, you are not satisfied with the rocket and space industry?
              Do you think that the space industry itself exists in a vacuum? streamlined medicine, no education. The dominance of arbeiters in the country, who not only sweep the yards, but the Akhmedovs in the polyclinics, and the Mammadovs in the police. What kind of cosmonaut do you think will grow out of a Russian boy, if the teacher in the kindergarten is Muradov and she does not hide her eyes for the Russians.?
              They don't even produce their own bicycles in Russia. And you about the space industry.
              1. +11
                9 August 2021 07: 14
                Quote: Gardamir
                but in the polyclinics the Akhmedovs, and in the police the Mamedovs

                but in Moldova, for example, in polyclinics, there are mainly national cadres.
                pure luck, of course
                but knowledgeable people say that up to the level of Russian honey. institutions like before space
                I suppose they lie
                you reminded me of a scene played out more than once in western cinema
                when the patient has a sour face with non-Aryan facial features and the doctor's Indian surname
                1. +7
                  9 August 2021 07: 56
                  "The Indian surname of the doctor" Dr. Myasnikov highly appreciates the Indian doctors. Indians work in leading clinics in the USA
                  1. +6
                    9 August 2021 08: 01
                    Quote: Astra wild2
                    "The Indian surname of the doctor" Dr. Myasnikov highly appreciates the Indian doctors. Indians work in leading clinics in the USA

                    I mean the same. although the name Myasnikov is not familiar to me.
                    God forbid that emigrants and guest workers from Central Asia, whom a colleague complains about, were entirely doctors and representatives of other professions that require high qualifications.
                    Yes, it is the dream of any state to attract only high-level specialists.
                    1. +2
                      9 August 2021 08: 20
                      involve exclusively high-level specialists.
                      what to do with yours?
                      1. +4
                        9 August 2021 09: 22
                        Quote: Gardamir
                        what to do with yours?

                        busting doctors in the country?
                        who else is too much, tell me?
                        engineers?
                        1. -3
                          9 August 2021 09: 52
                          Counterquestion. There was a medical school in our small town. In the 90s, they did not touch it. Later it was optimized. The same happens with engineers.
                          It turns out that your position is of no use to Russian doctors and engineers, will you import Islamic ones?
                        2. 0
                          9 August 2021 09: 58
                          Quote: Gardamir
                          It turns out that your position is of no use to Russian doctors and engineers, will you import Islamic ones?

                          what kind of "Islamic" doctors? I don’t know such
                          the problem of migrants from Wed. Asia has not existed for the first decade.
                          I would prefer to see more culturally educated specialists among them.
                          unlike what we have - a poorly educated food environment for all sorts of extremism and crime
                          you either do not understand basic things or are not accustomed to admit your own wrong
                        3. AUL
                          +2
                          9 August 2021 12: 38
                          Quote: Flood
                          what kind of "Islamic" doctors? I don’t know such

                          You are very lucky! Unfortunately, all the Moscow region already knows!
                        4. +1
                          9 August 2021 12: 40
                          Quote from AUL
                          You are very lucky! Unfortunately, all the Moscow region already knows!

                          do you speak for all the suburbs?
                          and on your own personal specifics can you add?
                        5. AUL
                          +3
                          9 August 2021 12: 56
                          Quote: Flood
                          and on your own personal specifics can you add?
                          It's Easy!
                          Recently I had to go to the doctors to get vaccinated. Cardiologist, rheumatologist, traumatologist - from there. The district and endocrinologist are ours.
                          And this is not only in my immediate environment. With whom from the region I have not talked on this topic - all the same.
                          This applies to our health insurance. I don't go to paid ones, although I belong to the middle class (according to Putin feel ) I think the situation there is different, because who will make an appointment with the cardiologist Turkanberdy Bugansalievich Kukhmekhsaddiev for their money?
                        6. +2
                          9 August 2021 13: 01
                          Quote from AUL
                          Cardiologist, rheumatologist, traumatologist - from there.

                          really bad specialists?
                          or cope?
                        7. AUL
                          +3
                          9 August 2021 13: 08
                          The traumatologist is a normal guy. Cardiologist and rheumatologist are an empty space.
                        8. +5
                          9 August 2021 13: 25
                          Cardiologist, rheumatologist, traumatologist - from there.

                          Do not sort doctors by nationality. And then with your rudiments of nationalism you will get into trouble.
                          Any good doctor is a Jew with us. laughing
                          Well, I'm kidding, but see for yourself.

                          Who is the most famous pediatrician - Roshal.
                          Who is the most famous cardiologist - Bockeria
                          Who is the most famous epidemiologist - Gunzburg
                          Who is the most famous gynecologist - Adamyan.
                          Who is the most famous oncologist - Karpin.
                          The second echelon (doctors of sciences, professors) is also about the same.
                          And you know it doesn’t bother them, they don’t find out each other’s nationality - they save people.
                        9. +2
                          10 August 2021 07: 01
                          "They are saving people" in a nearby polyclinic, "Fenya" works as a procedural nurse, she is from Afghanistan, a wonderful specialist. Ours want to win her over
                        10. 0
                          20 October 2021 10: 27
                          What's wrong with nationalism?
                        11. 0
                          20 October 2021 11: 46
                          What's wrong with nationalism?

                          The bad thing is that, like any false theory, it leads to wrong decisions, and those to wrong actions. Explain further?
                        12. +1
                          9 August 2021 13: 27
                          Quote from AUL
                          Traumatologist is a normal man

                          So it's not all that bad?
                          or none at all better than a newcomer?
                        13. +8
                          9 August 2021 14: 04
                          Quote from AUL
                          I think the situation there is different, because who will make an appointment with Turkanberdy's cardiologist Bugansalievich Kuhmekhsaddiev for their money?

                          ===
                          ?
                          Syrian doctors work in the Krasnodar Territory, there are no complaints. mother has a Syrian attending cardiologist
                        14. +4
                          9 August 2021 10: 01
                          Quote: Gardamir
                          There was a medical school in our small town. In the 90s, they did not touch it. Later it was optimized.

                          what does this have to do with the problem of guest workers?
                          and it was not about junior medical personnel
                          Quote: Gardamir
                          The same happens with engineers

                          which also"?
                          closing polytechnic universities? No
                          the problem is jobs and wages
                          and what does the guest worker have to do with it?
                        15. +8
                          9 August 2021 12: 28
                          Quote: Gardamir
                          Counterquestion. There was a medical school in our small town. In the 90s, they did not touch it. Later it was optimized. The same happens with engineers.
                          It turns out that your position is of no use to Russian doctors and engineers, will you import Islamic ones?

                          I see that the conversation has deviated from the topic of the article. And if we return to the topic, then serious questions arise about the possibilities and timing. Suffice it to recall how long it took for the "Science" module. And the Chinese as partners are not so-so. They will definitely be the main ones in the project. And they will try to steal technology as much as possible.
                        16. +2
                          9 August 2021 17: 01
                          And if we return to the topic, then serious questions arise about the possibilities and timing.

                          And if we come back to the topic, I wrote about 5 years ago: "Forget about manned astronautics, nothing new will be born." I would be very glad to be mistaken. This will mean that manned astronautics was born anew in Russia, because that old Soviet one died in the early 80s, and fell ill back in the XNUMXs.
                          Leonov, of course, is probably better than Efremov, but he started working at the company with my father (and I was only going to school then) and somehow in comparison with Chelomey.
                        17. +2
                          9 August 2021 13: 30
                          The same happens with engineers.

                          Well, you turned it down, engineering universities are only growing.
                          I don’t remember who was closed.
                          Even MIEM, which was withering, was not closed all the 90s, but absorbed.
                          According to your logic, the stankin should have died first, but no one is alive and well.
                        18. -4
                          9 August 2021 22: 36
                          Quote: Gardamir
                          It turns out that your position is of no use to Russian doctors and engineers, will you import Islamic ones?

                          You are comparing faith and nationality (as "soft with warm"). Do you think that a Russian cannot practice Islam, and a Turk (Tatar, Uzbek or Tajik ...) cannot be Orthodox? And why Muslims are so undesirable for you, Islam is the second largest religion in Russia by the number of believers. Can you justify. In the history of Christianity (not Orthodoxy) there are moments no less unattractive than in some areas of Islam.
                        19. +2
                          10 August 2021 06: 50
                          You are comparing faith and nationality
                          Russia. Moscow. Azerbaijanis and Uzbeks speak the same language, ignoring the present Russian.
                          It's not pleasant. And you?
                        20. -2
                          10 August 2021 15: 21
                          Azerbaijanis and Uzbeks speak onom language, I'm unpleasant. And you?

                          What is IT? They speak different languages.
                          And what has Islam to do with it?
                          And if I am Indonesian and believe in Allah, what language should I speak?
                          If I am Orthodox I can understand in Russian, but only I am an atheist (this is how they taught me in the USSR) how do I speak?
                        21. 0
                          10 August 2021 15: 26
                          By the way, Protsenko came from the Fergana Valley.
                          How many people owe him their lives.
                          Generally uhthen wild delirium mix nationality, religion, place of birth, quality of education, upbringing and success in work.
                          You really should express Gardamir more precisely than your thoughts.
                          When Tajiks speak their language in the presence of others, this is a bad upbringing. And when Russians use obscenities in the same place, although everyone understands, this is also a bad upbringing. But not religion.
                          I do not like poorly educated people, but this has nothing to do with God.
                        22. 0
                          10 August 2021 17: 33
                          Quote: Gardamir
                          Russia. Moscow. Azerbaijanis and Uzbeks speak the same language, ignoring the present Russian.
                          It's not pleasant. And you?

                          The phenomenon is not so large-scale, I do not see a problem in this. If local, then they understand Russian. If gaster, then generally in half. I think that, having moved somewhere to Turkey or France, you would not have missed an opportunity to speak with a fellow countryman in your native language, without looking back at the indigenous locals. I would for sure. Think of them as tourists after all. wink
                      2. 0
                        12 August 2021 18: 19
                        I am Siraev, and I am exclusively not ours (in the ancestors of the Bashkirs, Crimean Tatars and Tatars), my mother worked all her life as a kindergarten teacher, a veteran and an honored teacher. Father is a doctor, at 80 he works, an honored doctor, an excellent worker in health care in Bashkortostan and an honorary donor of the USSR.
                        I am a doctor, do you think I treat worse offhand, taken and averaged Smirnov?
                    2. 0
                      10 August 2021 06: 43
                      Colleague Navodlom, A. L. Myasnikov on the channel Russia1 host of the program: "On the most important thing." Believes that our health is in our hands. Doctor in the fourth generation
                      1. +1
                        11 August 2021 12: 07
                        Quote: Astra wild2
                        Colleague Navodlom, A. L. Myasnikov on the channel Russia1 host of the program: "On the most important thing." Believes that our health is in our hands. Doctor in the fourth generation

                        I think my mother told me something about him.
                        But I have a prejudice against doctors who go on television.
                        Heartburn from Malysheva affects.
                        1. +1
                          11 August 2021 14: 39
                          I understand you. I liked her: a smart and elegant woman, but she turned into a talking pig.
                  2. 0
                    5 October 2021 04: 53
                    Yes, I'm currently looking for something called a primary physician.
                    All Indians - thrown out of the list in the first place.
                2. +2
                  10 August 2021 06: 48
                  I had a district police station in the clinic, “local,” that's generally an indifferent person. An Uzbek replaced her, he seemed to be trying, but it is clear that a number of sheep helped in obtaining a diploma.
                  1. 0
                    10 August 2021 15: 22
                    it can be seen that a number of rams helped in obtaining a diploma.

                    In 10 years everything will be trying to be OK. But the local one will work worse and worse. This is how medicine works ...
                3. +1
                  11 August 2021 11: 43
                  Quote: Flood
                  Quote: Gardamir
                  but in the polyclinics the Akhmedovs, and in the police the Mamedovs

                  but in Moldova, for example, in polyclinics, there are mainly national cadres.
                  pure luck, of course
                  but knowledgeable people say that up to the level of Russian honey. institutions like before space
                  I suppose they lie

                  No, they don't lie. Well, they somehow cope with simple diseases. And if something is more complicated, for example, oncology and you want to live, then the way to St. Petersburg or Moscow. Previously, they went to Kiev, now they are no better than ours.
                  1. 0
                    11 August 2021 12: 09
                    Quote: mister-red
                    No, they don't lie. Well, they somehow cope with simple diseases. And if something is more complicated, for example, oncology and you want to live, then the way to St. Petersburg or Moscow. Previously, they went to Kiev, now they are no better than ours.

                    Greetings fellow countryman hi
              2. +6
                9 August 2021 07: 52
                They don't even produce their own bicycles in Russia. And you about the space industry.


                Well, you swung! They don't make bicycles!
                The office supplies for the school were bought the other day - pencils, and those "not ours". Notebooks from Belarus. Handles-china. And you mean bicycles .... There are some ball bearings what are .... I needed a bearing for a fishing reel, I went to a special company. Only "china" and "firmA" are available. Ours are not, only hefty specialized ones.
                1. +1
                  9 August 2021 16: 19
                  with fishing belongings, everything is no less sad. Of course, there are a number of not very bad fishing brands, such as "Volga Bates", but for the vast majority of their products they place their orders over the hill. The same more or less not bad reels, all possible dives, shimankas and other Abu Garcia, not a single domestic brand among them. from supposedly ours, all possible "Volzhanks", but they also grow legs from one well-known Asian country. although we produce good PVC boats such as "azimuth", "Solar ", yes, the material is bought over the hill, but nevertheless the production, the design of the models, the very good quality is all domestic, and cannot but rejoice good in principle, there was an opportunity to compare with the "Quick Silver" of the early XNUMXs, they are not inferior in quality, but the design and ergonomics are more interesting. It is not bad that they do not stand still, new models are released, service is being established.
              3. -6
                9 August 2021 08: 36
                Quote: Gardamir
                What cosmonaut do you think will grow out of a Russian boy, if the teacher in the kindergarten Muradova

                what A communist Nazi? How interesting!!!!
                1. +1
                  9 August 2021 09: 39
                  You shouldn't be ironic. One day the conversation of such teachers was translated to me. God forbid your children or grandchildren to be in the kindergarten where the national teacher is.
                  1. +5
                    9 August 2021 10: 13
                    Quote: Gardamir
                    The conversation of such educators was once translated to me

                    what And you, as a fighter for the truth, let everything go on the brakes?
                    1. +3
                      9 August 2021 12: 42
                      Quote: Serg65
                      And you, as a fighter for the truth, let everything go on the brakes?

                      told the neighbors
                      and those further down the lane
                      everyone fights to the best of their modest capabilities
                      1. +6
                        9 August 2021 12: 53
                        Quote: Flood
                        told the neighbors
                        and those further down the lane

                        recourse Nothing in the world changes ...
              4. -3
                9 August 2021 09: 19
                "The ISS is seriously outdated, and the government suggests talking with foreign partners in advance."

                - said Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Borisov

                Yes, this is not our level already! We will pamper easily and steeply !! And let them fly with trampolines!

                Have you heard. We also know how it ended.

                "There is an understanding that the funds required to maintain the ISS, maintain equipment, and the funds to deploy a separate national orbital station are about the same money."

                - Dmitry Rogozin said recently.

                Well, since Rogozin said, then it is so! Only it is not clear then - why was the Soviet WORLD drowned?

                Roscosmos wants to explore the moon together with China

                This is well known. It is not known whether the Chinese want the same. So far, they've done it on their own. Well, now they can handle it even more.
                1. +1
                  9 August 2021 15: 00
                  Well, since Rogozin said, then it is so! Only it is not clear then - why was the Soviet WORLD drowned?
                  Colleague, that's understandable. So that financing goes where it is necessary and to whom it is necessary. And it goes, so everything is in order with the fmnance in the space industry. Moon conquest scenarios are written, cartoons are drawn. We'll see soon.
              5. -2
                9 August 2021 13: 34
                They don't even produce their own bicycles in Russia. And you about the space industry.
                Bicycles Stealth-Russian manufacturer
                https://vplate.ru/velosiped/brendy/kto-proizvodit-stels/
                1. 0
                  11 August 2021 11: 50
                  They don't even produce their own bicycles in Russia.

                  This is not an indicator at all. In Moldova, for example, they collect them. I repeat - COLLECT. In principle, we are not able to do everything for them. You can, but not profitable.
                  By the way, you may not know, but TVs are not produced in the USA. CRTs were discontinued in the mid-90s when LG bought the last TV maker Zenith. It would seem that now everything is easier, buy matrices and rivet. But in the United States, the last TV set was assembled 15 years ago.
              6. The comment was deleted.
            2. -1
              9 August 2021 09: 04
              Quote: Proxima
              I will repeat my question: what specifically does not suit you in the rocket and space industry?

              loss of a primary role in the exploration of near space.
              Permanent emergency situations in the Russian segment of the ISS.
              Lack of a serious program for the development of astronautics.
              Etc.
              In general, a country with a non-developing economy and industry cannot be the world leader in the space industry.
              1. +1
                9 August 2021 10: 30
                "... can't a country with a non-developing economy and industry be the world leader in the space industry"?
                This is true. But the trick is that she's not a leader for a long time.
                We don't even mention deep space exploration, everything is dull here. Bragging about the achievements of the Moon and Mars is somewhat presumptuous compared to the successes of other countries.
                But even in terms of launch vehicles (usually in LEO), Russia already occupies a modest third place.
                Yet.
                So far, there is a contract with OneWeb, which is limited in time. We don't have our own PN in the required quantity. You can, of course, speculate about various "Spheres" and so on, but first you need to arrange the necessary deliveries from Taiwan of electronic components of the Space category. Well, or give birth to something worthwhile in Angstrem, etc. If possible.
                1. -1
                  9 August 2021 10: 37
                  Quote: Cosm22
                  This is true. But the fish is that she has long been no longer a leader.

                  Comrade, I just wanted to put it mildly, so as not to blow up the brains of uryaputriotic-minded fellow citizens, because the victory itself is not important for them, victorious reports are important, otherwise what should they do with the caps that are already ready to rise into the air request
                  1. +3
                    9 August 2021 10: 58
                    I got what you mean.
                    But I will focus on the title. Here is the correct question in the title of the article. But there is no answer.
                    What for?
                    Why does Russia need ROSS? With such an inclination? Where's the answer? If we remove all the propaganda husk like the current fashionable trend of the Arctic and the ability to survey the entire territory of the country?
                    When you start looking for the pros of this megaproject, solid cons will emerge.
                    There can be only one justification for this venture (apart from a purely military component) - it is needed to preserve Russian manned space exploration.
                    But!
                    But for this, the OS must have specific tasks that would justify its creation and existence. Where are these tasks?
                    Only the preservation of manned space exploration? Not much...
                    1. -1
                      9 August 2021 11: 25
                      Quote: Cosm22
                      But for this, the OS must have specific tasks that would justify its creation and existence. Where are these tasks?
                      Only the preservation of manned space exploration? Not much...

                      Astronautics is just one of the industries, high-tech, but technically complex, but just a fragment of the overall picture.
                      Where to come from specific tasks for the OS, if there is no concept for the development of the country as a whole.
                      I think that Gagarin, and in his person the entire manned space program, is one of the last "braces" of the current Russian Federation, i.e. means for public relations. Now it is generally difficult to answer the question of why the Russian Federation needs manned astronautics, given that the goals and objectives for the country have not been identified.
                      1. -1
                        9 August 2021 11: 46
                        The question is difficult ...
                        In light of the current jingoistic boom, the issue of the country's prestige is primary. And here manned astronautics is far from being the last trump card. WE CAN! Know ours!
                        In addition, a huge mass of people work for Roskosmos and Roskosmos. They cannot be left without work. As a rule, they do not know how to do anything else. But they have a unique experience. Unfortunately, it is extremely specialized and narrow.
                        This topic has something in common with the topic of the "Hangar". The same confusing situation. On the one hand, it is clear that Angara is a dead-end road. This is not the medium that will bring Russia to the international level or fill the budget with green papers. He is able to solve only part of the problems (mainly tied to the tasks of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation) within the country (if he still learns to fly reliably).
                        But could you refuse it? As paradoxical and regrettable as it is - no. For there was nothing else in the storehouse. Only from this point of view, the Angara project was needed. At least in order not to finally lose the rest of the staff and give people in Khimki, Omsk, Moscow, Voronezh and Korolev at least some kind of work. But! It is in this seemingly good undertaking that the root of all Angara's problems lies.
                        1. -1
                          9 August 2021 11: 56
                          Quote: Cosm22
                          But could you refuse it? As paradoxical and regrettable as it is - no. For there was nothing else in the storehouse. Only from this point of view, the Angara project was needed. At least in order not to finally lose the rest of the staff and give people in Khimki, Omsk, Moscow, Voronezh and Korolev at least some kind of work. But! It is in this seemingly good undertaking that the root of all Angara's problems lies.

                          Comrade, that's right! If there is nothing, then it is better to make a highly specialized Angara than to completely lose staff and competencies.
                    2. 0
                      10 August 2021 16: 31
                      There is still a task, and perhaps this is task number one: circulation and development, but not space, but dough, in certain narrow circles wassat
          2. +2
            9 August 2021 06: 24
            Quote: Pessimist22
            I don’t know what’s stopping you, but judging by the news, there’s a mess both on earth and in space. Russia is far from Japan in technology, but in the defense industry we have C300, C400, C500, the best in the world, and the Japanese have achieved results in all areas. : from biotechnology to robotics.

            therefore you, dear Russians, sit behind your fence, and leave space to the Americans, Japanese and Chinese.
            What a thought!
            1. -2
              9 August 2021 06: 44
              I am sympathetic to your thinking abilities, but I do not quite understand the train of your thoughts. In a market economy, I understand how to make a profit when placing satellites into orbit, using modern technologies in electronics, biochemical technologies, but I don’t understand how from flights to the moon.
              1. -8
                9 August 2021 06: 53
                Quote: Pessimist22
                I am sympathetic to your thinking abilities, but I did not quite understand the course of your thoughts.

                it looks like a diagnosis
                and he's not in your favor
                "I understand, but I don't understand. But I understand how to make a profit"
                by any chance Rogozin's advisor?
                I don't presume to judge by the style
                I think, let me ask such an understanding person
                1. +2
                  9 August 2021 06: 59
                  What kind of diagnosis do you think I have? I am not an advisor to Rogozin. As a more experienced person, I am interested in how to profit from flights to the moon?
                  1. -2
                    9 August 2021 07: 02
                    Quote: Pessimist22
                    As a more experienced person, I am interested in how to profit from flights to the moon?

                    you see, everything cannot be measured by profits
                    Nepman says it in you
                    fundamental science does not work for profit
                    from it, in general, there are only costs in the short and medium term
                    by and large, modern astrophysics and astronomy, for example, do not bring any profit
                    but this is a huge reserve for the future, which is difficult to underestimate
                    and no one in their right mind questions the appropriateness of the costs associated with these sciences
                    1. -1
                      9 August 2021 07: 28
                      I understand that scientific research is a necessary groundwork for the future, they want to use the Moon for commercial purposes, scientific research as ancillary, but I personally think that bases on the Moon with people are from the realm of fantasy, until robots with AI are made, there will be no bases.
                  2. +2
                    9 August 2021 08: 01
                    ... how to profit from flights to the moon?


                    To hell with her, with a profit. You can do without it. But all the same, the question arises: "What is a person to do there?" What task is there for him and the need to stay? Dig up stones?
              2. -2
                9 August 2021 06: 59
                Quote: Pessimist22
                In a market economy, I understand how to make a profit when putting satellites into orbit, using modern technologies in electronics, biochemical technologies, but I don’t understand how from flights to the moon.

                Read above:
                Quote: Proxima
                Deep space is very closely related to near space, and this is a whole cluster of commercial satellites

                In other words, spacecraft sent to Mars, the Moon and so on are derivatives of the Near Space, so to speak by-products.
            2. +3
              9 August 2021 06: 45
              Quote: Flood
              therefore you, dear Russians, sit behind your fence, and leave space to the Americans, Japanese and Chinese.
              What a thought!

              I fully support your irony! hi Ever since the days of the USSR, I was wildly annoyed by the sobs of housewives, when they heard on TV about the launch of another spaceship, they started yelling: it would be better if they brought toilet paper to the stores! crying Now this toilet paper, at least rub and wipe, as well as Coca-Cola, chewing gum and other "valuables" for which they sold the Soviet Union with giblets. The pessimist and others like him want to say that their righteous anger is directed in the wrong direction! Space has nothing to do with it. stop
              1. 0
                9 August 2021 06: 51
                Tell me who they are who sold the Soviet Union, otherwise I am constantly on the site in the debate on this issue, it's good that you know who they are, please tell us in more detail.
                1. +9
                  9 August 2021 08: 06
                  Tell me who they are who sold the Soviet Union,


                  Yes, we are all! Either they kept silent and swallowed, or they took part, or connived.
              2. 0
                9 August 2021 15: 56
                they were smart political technologies. Smart and competent specialists worked on this.
                And it worked, you can't take that away from them.
              3. -1
                10 August 2021 11: 03
                chewing gum and other "values"

                And why in quotes. The desire for a comfortable life for yourself and your loved ones is a NORMAL desire for a person. And vice versa, there are very few who are ready not in words but in deeds to "be content with an iron bowl of rice" only to "be able to be proud of military might" for obvious reasons. "There are no fools, yes."
          3. +3
            9 August 2021 19: 35
            Something their technology only allowed to drain radioactive water into the ocean in Fukushima.
        2. -1
          9 August 2021 06: 38
          Finally - jobs, demand for engineers
          All this was and jobs and space stations were built without the Kremlin partners. A generation that bought diplomas also came to work. the generation of the Unified State Exam is preparing for the exit. And then the line will come up for the remote controllers ..
          And it is not the space industry that suits them, but those patriots who cannot get drunk.
        3. +7
          9 August 2021 07: 39
          What does not suit you in the rocket and space industry is not clear ..


          Maybe the mess reigning there?
        4. +1
          9 August 2021 12: 00
          The launch services market alone exceeded $ 10 billion back in the 300s!


          This is when he exceeded such sums? This sum seems to be the estimate of the entire volume of the "space" market, where the lion's share is telecommunications and communications.
        5. +1
          9 August 2021 22: 11
          Why are you throwing beads in front of our enemies from Ukraine or Chukhonts, or our fosterlings from Khodarkovsky? They are at work and there is a standard selection - instead of missiles, it would be better to raise pensions, instead of airplanes, it would be better to build a kindergarten, instead of nuclear submarines, it would be better to raise capital. An old worn-out record by which you can immediately identify a veteran, not by age, but by the length of service, the couch war. well, it's time to change, well, it doesn’t roll. unless a couple of retired colonels, "to whom no one writes" out of harm, will support, and so - everyone cares about your spells.
        6. The comment was deleted.
      2. +5
        9 August 2021 05: 42
        Welcome to the new "World": why does Russia need its own space station?

        We started for health ...
        The initiative of the joint base itself is not so bad, but how can this "mega-project" be implemented together with the ROSS station, which, moreover, is intended for completely different purposes - big question. It is already clear that each of the programs will require huge funds and incredible efforts of the entire space industry.

        We finished for the peace ...
        We are brave, skillful
        We behave bravely
        We made a balloon
        And we are not afraid to fly!

        laughing
      3. +2
        9 August 2021 07: 26
        Quote: Pessimist22
        Put things in order on Earth, in Russia in particular,

        My friend, do not hesitate, do not step aside from the process you propose, take the scoop, broom and go! - put things in order in Russia, on Earth ... and along the way, someone from the Russians may fly to the moon, what good will they bring. One does not interfere with the other - it only helps.
      4. +2
        9 August 2021 14: 55
        Dear comrades!
        Those to whom you write are already 30 years old as gentlemen. And order has been restored! Money is not spent on "unnecessary space" anyway, but where and who is supposed to.
      5. +1
        10 August 2021 21: 32
        That is, robber elements of Americanism and Europeanism are playing dirty tricks on the planet, but the Russians should establish order? Yes, no question, we will rot in the gulags and order on the Earth will come, is that okay?
      6. 0
        11 August 2021 12: 22
        There will always be not enough money, but it is necessary to develop, the development of space technologies is a huge leap in the science of materials science, chemistry, microelectronics, medicine and much more, the main thing is not to get hung up on military applications, but to develop and implement everything in the civilian sector, then it will be and returns and returns and everything else ...
      7. 0
        13 October 2021 18: 01
        Read Captain Vrungel. As you name the ship, so it will float. Therefore, the orbital station should have such a name as Stalin, who remained in Moscow. For example - Putin flight. Such a station with this name will fly until its death.
    2. +2
      9 August 2021 05: 38
      In April 2021, an event occurred that at first few people paid attention to, but which, as it turned out, will predetermine development of Russian manned astronautics for many years to come. Russia has suddenly announced for everyone its firm intention to get a "national" orbital station
      It actually turned out that event will predetermine??? The sadness is that Russia, through the lips of Rogozin, has already announced so much that all the next announcements are not worth a damn and do not cause anything but sarcastic grins. the conclusion of "Science" never saves the situation. So, until there are real cases (and not defining announcements), I personally will quote Stanislavsky: "I don't believe! 2
      1. 0
        10 August 2021 16: 42
        Rogozin, that's an unsinkable showman, I would have listened to VVP, but I would have been horrified for the gills for the "rotten bazaar", but no, you see, he is arranging here, what else to say
    3. +7
      9 August 2021 05: 49
      Since we were squeezed out of joint projects within the framework of the new ISS, there is another way of how to create something similar and there is no one of our own, and then everyone rushed to explore the Moon, is there a need in Russia to implement two expensive projects at once, we are not Chinese and Americans with Europeans, our economy is somewhat different, Rogozin would have voiced the price of the issue, otherwise we will take off the last pants for the sake of space
      1. +2
        9 August 2021 15: 10
        Don't worry.
        I'm tired of repeating over and over again that Roscosmos has seven Fridays a week. So nothing is known.
        Today, the ISS RS of the Republic of Kazakhstan will fly until 2030. And of course, after all, "Science" was launched! True, for more than a week there has been no positive news about her, which, given Rogozin's irrepressible passion for PR, causes some bewilderment and suggests reflection. The sector flew yesterday until 2024/2025. It will fly tomorrow until 2028. If there are no new cracks.
        The same with ROSS. Today it is needed, moreover, it is necessary. Tomorrow may become unnecessary. The day after tomorrow, academicians and the best minds of Roscosmos will begin to discuss a new regular concept of ROSS. If there is a command from above. And there will be money for this.
        You are right so far in one thing: Russia will not pull both projects simultaneously. Therefore, one of them must bend. Officially. But we will observe with interest the sauce under which it will be presented to the layman.
    4. -1
      9 August 2021 06: 27
      A strange and very stupid question, in the light of human development in general, and even more so, in the light of the development of the Russian State.
    5. +7
      9 August 2021 06: 31
      Quote: Pessimist22
      Dear comrades! Put things in order on Earth, in Russia in particular, they gathered on the Moon laughing

      I agree with you, dear, in our time, the organization and preparation of space flights to orbit or to the Moon is still carried out on Earth. Therefore, the order in the space industry in Russia must be space-based, if I may say so.
      1. +2
        9 August 2021 07: 09
        Deep thought! Thank you for understanding what I wanted to express with my post. There must be order on earth for us to be in space.
        1. +1
          9 August 2021 07: 53
          Quote: Pessimist22
          There must be order on earth for us to be in space.

          When the mess on Earth began, we flooded the station.
          Its own station will be a visible indicator of order on Earth. A visible indicator of the ability of our managers to solve grandiose tasks. At least like China.
    6. +8
      9 August 2021 07: 04
      "Astronauts can be delivered to the station on the Soyuz MS spacecraft, which is, at least morally obsolete,"
      It seems to me that such formulations regarding such a dangerous event as space travel are not suitable, this is not a car for you. The main thing here is the safety of astronauts, what other ship can compare with the Soyuz in this parameter?
    7. +8
      9 August 2021 07: 11
      Who is the author? I can’t find something. And again everything is "being developed", there is neither the promised super-heavy rocket nor ships. As they flew on "Soyuz" and fly. The unfortunate "Science" was sawed for 25 years. So it’s hard to believe that we alone will master the station. It probably won't work without cooperation with the Chinese. That's just a question, do the Chinese need it? In words, it seems yes. In fact, they themselves are not doing badly so far.
    8. +6
      9 August 2021 07: 32
      Why do we need our own station? So that other people's holes are not drilled and we are not spied on.
      I am for our station. Own station is an indicator of the level of science and education in the country, the level of organizational skills of managers. China could and we can. It's time to drown the ISS. So we can stay without space at all.
      1. +1
        9 August 2021 17: 06
        Own station is an indicator of the level of science and education in the country, the level of organizational skills of managers.
        Therefore, everything will remain in words. No matter how sad. crying
      2. 0
        3 September 2021 17: 13
        It should be a shame to repeat stories about holes. And to peep - what to spy on?
    9. 0
      9 August 2021 07: 44
      "each of the programs will require huge funds" space is generally costly, but the national prestige and interests of science outweigh
    10. -1
      9 August 2021 08: 18
      Why repeat "Peace" from the last century? Roskosmos has practically zero intellectual potential. There are no clear development programs, no goals and objectives have been formulated. "Effective managers" aim only at cutting the budget.
    11. 0
      9 August 2021 08: 22
      The Soviet super-heavy rocket N-1 with 30 NK-15 engines in the first stage was very cool, but in those years it was almost impossible to make a control system for such a large number of engines. Now, with the development of technology, it has become a reality. Only now Musk is embodying this idea.
    12. -3
      9 August 2021 08: 33
      To once again chop up the money, and then drown this bucket.
    13. +3
      9 August 2021 09: 04
      The station's orbit was chosen as radical as possible - it is a polar orbit with an inclination of 97–98 degrees and an altitude of 300–350 kilometers. Such an orbit allows observing the polar regions of the planet and the entire territory of Russia (only 20 percent of the country's territory is visible from the ISS orbit).

      https://nplus1.ru/material/2021/04/26/ross
      In the circumpolar regions, the level of cosmic radiation is highest - the radiation load for astronauts here will be about three times higher than in the ISS orbit.
      To avoid long-term exposure to radiation on the crew (and to save money), the new station will not be habitable, but visited, that is, the ROSS will remain in unmanned mode for part of the time.
    14. -7
      9 August 2021 09: 57
      It's a shame that today's team of dummy dummies from Roscosmos will be implementing plans for space.
      1. -2
        10 August 2021 13: 01
        the team of NEPushek killed Phobos-Grunt 10 years ago.
        1. -1
          14 August 2021 16: 29
          What's the problem? Mars is still there, in 10 years it was possible to bring the design to mind and send five missions. Did you feel like it?
          1. +1
            14 August 2021 16: 46
            And the point is to tear the fifth point for the sake of a dubious result? Now it's not the 60s when you need to make a feat straightforward, despite the efforts, the task is to systematically develop the industry ... and yes ... what is the use of 5 missions to Mars? do you have an extra 60 billion rubles? so contact the Republic of Kazakhstan, offer to finance
    15. -3
      9 August 2021 11: 02
      Yes, they fucking go with their orbital station !!!
      A completely empty pastime at the expense of our taxes!
      Let them develop other, less costly areas in astronautics.
    16. +3
      9 August 2021 11: 31
      Manned space exploration today is not commercially viable, in contrast to other areas of space exploration.
      There are two main reasons for its development: either you have a surplus of money that you are willing to spend on a deliberately non-commercial project, or you are ready to tear money away from the necessary for reasons of prestige.
      More or less commercial payback is seen in space tourism, but for this the location of the proposed space station was chosen as badly as possible - in fact, it will not be inhabited, but visited due to the high level of radiation load on astronauts
      1. +1
        9 August 2021 11: 52
        In space, unlike satellites, there is not a single commercial station for a minute. This is not about commerce, but about the needs of the state.
        1. +1
          9 August 2021 11: 54
          I mean the same. In manned space exploration, no commercial payback is expected. And the state really does not have such a need.
          It all comes down to - either a lot of money, or prestige
          hi
    17. 0
      9 August 2021 11: 38
      With the completion of the bulk of the experiments, and they have been going on since the 70s, one way or another, the profile of the stations had to change. They are in demand as an integrating platform for studying and observing the surface, replacing the output of a heap of specialized satellites, operating in an automatic mode as the main one. The Americans have everything the same, but their lunar orbital is seen as an additional option to the Artemis program. The way their program is structured does not give a special place to the station in it. Super-heavy media allows you to do without intermediate sites, which would otherwise have to be spent on. Flights are direct, non-stop. Delaying the implementation of projects threatens to lose their meaning for both the creators and the management. Our project, while it is relatively fresh, is not threatened.
    18. +2
      9 August 2021 11: 40
      There is a certain scattering, and sometimes even bombast, in individual statements of the general director of Roscosmos, but the level of Russian cosmonautics is determined not by the words of individuals, but by the work of thousands of designers, engineers, workers and real steps in fulfilling the outlined plans. Yes, the "Science" module, albeit with a huge delay, for a number of objective reasons, was launched into orbit and started testing. Today, the "Prichal" junction module was sent to Baikonur, which is to be launched to the ISS in November. This is the second and one of the main modules for creating the foundation of the Russian space station.
      1. 0
        9 August 2021 15: 50
        Well, in general, to be honest, I am very surprised that Russia still has space and that we can do something else. Until the XNUMXs, I thought that we could say goodbye to space already. It turned out that this is not the case. Which surprised me very pleasantly.
    19. -1
      9 August 2021 11: 51
      The orbital station was needed before the USSR. An orbital station is needed now by China. For absolutely understandable reasons. Because these are real people's states, the authorities in which realize what is pathetically called "the aspirations of the people."

      The ruling regime in the Russian Federation does not need an orbital station. And it is not needed either, for obvious reasons. And all the loud statements of 2021 can be ignored altogether, because the elections. If you remember all the past campaign statements, you can write a thick book of fairy tales that Hans Christian Andersen himself would envy.
    20. -2
      9 August 2021 14: 18
      Quote: Just a Traveler
      Yes, they fucking go with their orbital station !!!
      A completely empty pastime at the expense of our taxes!
      Let them develop other, less costly areas in astronautics.

      Right.
    21. +1
      9 August 2021 14: 47
      I have doubts that we will develop something serious and joint in space with the Chinese. So, for now, I am considering all this projecting in the context of a price-raising game with foreign "partners". The ISS-cooperation probably suited us, there is an understanding that we will not reach such a level of relations with the Chinese, and that the support of our station + lunar program is a heavy burden on our budget. Choosing one thing from this is a problem, so we will probably stay in the ISS and push for participation in the DSG in parallel with attempts to at least partially independently implement the lunar program.
      1. -3
        9 August 2021 15: 26
        The Chinese will use what is left of the Russian cosmonautics and send it in three letters. "Effective managers", in this case, will receive their "compensation".
      2. -4
        9 August 2021 17: 22
        Quote: Knell Wardenheart
        The ISS-cooperation probably suited us, there is an understanding that we will not reach such a level of relations with the Chinese

        Apparently, we will not reach this level of relations with non-Chinese people either. Russia was expelled from the expert group on Gateway "after repeated statements by the Russian side about its insufficient role in the project" ©, that is, they preferred not to deal there rather than to allow more noticeable participation.
    22. -4
      9 August 2021 15: 18
      Another cut under the direction of Rogozin.
    23. +2
      9 August 2021 15: 48
      * The station will be replaced by a new lunar orbital station Gateway * - well, there are a few mistakes.
      1. Will not change, because Gateway is a completely different project, which is located not in the Earth's orbit, but in the Lagrange point or in the lunar orbit.
      2. The Gateway project is much more complex than the ISS. I would say "an order of magnitude." Moreover, it is supposed to be in areas of space in a radically different way than surface space. And this complexity casts doubt on the feasibility of this project. At least I would not bet even 100 rubles on it. The project is much more complicated technically, there will be many factors that are now generally unknown or not studied for earthlings, and in which there is simply no experience in the design and operation of manned space technology. I think that even Russia, with vast experience in creating space stations, would have a lot of problems and not the fact that it would not make mistakes. The region of the unknown is too large here.
      3. There are very big doubts that the United States has the necessary competencies in the construction of space stations. So far they do not have a single successful space station built by them. Even in the ISS, the United States personally built only two modules, and not one with a life support system. Of course, in the 90s they stole something from the Soviet experience .. and the operation of the ISS gave some experience .. but they do not have and did not have a design school for manned vehicles. And so they have muddied a project of prohibitive complexity, for which they are not ready. They simply have no experience in building such objects in principle .. and here is a project that no one has ever done. And it is correct that Russia left this project. Don't drag chestnuts out of the fire for the US.

      In general, this is the minimum that will not allow Gateway to be.
      1. -4
        9 August 2021 16: 57
        Whether there will be a Getway, or not, but this is a direction for a serious breakthrough in science and technology. Roscosm's fairy tales have no meaningful scientific and technical purpose. They collect leftovers from Soviet baggage and promote themselves on this.
    24. 0
      9 August 2021 17: 40
      The main problem of Roskosmos is technical lag in several key areas (for example, microelectronics). We offer to build stations simply because they do not require the creation of fundamentally new technologies. All modern projects of Russia in the field of space are internitations of the projects based on past technologies but with minor new changes. At the same time, other space powers, albeit with difficulty, are trying to develop different directions of space. Our entire industry rests only on the defense industry and those cargo deliveries that use Union missiles (the heavy "Proton" has been losing its share for the last few years, so far only slowly, but the acceleration of the fall is a matter of time). Japan develops both cargo transportation and science with its research (Hayabusa 1/2 missions are extremely difficult but brought a lot of benefits), and uses the acquired experience for a new goal - to bring samples of rocks from the satellite of Mars. The Europeans have already visited Titan and their apparatus flies in orbit on Mars (launched by a proton, + a couple of scientific instruments are made in Russia, the rest is their own)
      1. +2
        9 August 2021 22: 26
        Exactly. Don't shoot the pianist - he plays as best he can. And this Roskosmos, which writes for itself strategies for self-support and puffing up Rogozin's cheeks, will not be able to come up with anything new. There should be a separate state customer, its own unique space agency, preferably accountable to parliament.
      2. 0
        10 August 2021 13: 00
        this is called the restoration of competence, and all key projects will be in the second half of the 20s-early 30s
      3. +1
        10 August 2021 13: 15
        We have no lag in microelectronics either. Roskosmos is reluctant to order the required range of products from domestic developers, hoping for finished foreign products. That's all, it's just the price.
    25. +2
      9 August 2021 22: 20
      In space, a plant in orbit would not hurt, and the base is more interesting near the moon, at the Lagrange point. As I understand it, the RC does not offer anything from this. Why do we need another World that will devour the entire budget is not clear. Who in the end asks for the results from Roscosmos? Who determines the strategy for Russia's development in space? (they are for themselves, yeah). Nobody. And until there is a normal customer accountable to parliament, Its Unique Space Agency, KMK will not move on. So they will drive the props and bend with the party line.
      1. 0
        10 August 2021 12: 59
        well, maybe because in the RK they soberly understand the possibilities of independent construction of a base in the orbit of the moon? besides, in fact, it makes sense to build a base under the surface of the satellite, and not in orbit ..
        1. 0
          10 August 2021 21: 19
          The idea of ​​the base in EMNIP orbit is that it avoids the Moon's gravity well and significantly reduces the cost of delivering cargo from / to the Earth. At the same time, communication with the Moon can be maintained by light shuttles, with several small research posts, the most convenient places and resources can be chosen, etc. - it is more convenient for research.
          And about soberly understands the possibilities - this is also a disaster. It is as if the Armed Forces made an order based on the needs of the military-industrial complex located inside them. Now, in fact, for Roscosmos it is, it is the customer and executor of the Russian space program. Plus, the dirigism and PR mania of Rogozin, who loves everything restored Soviet and the threats to America, is superimposed on him. And you need to launch private traders into the industry and develop international cooperation, and not play king of the hill.
    26. 0
      10 August 2021 03: 16
      Will have to separate at least to avoid espionage and sabotage. Well, it was not for nothing that they drilled the side of our module.
    27. -3
      10 August 2021 08: 31
      Modern Russia is not able to master such a complex project as a space station of the ISS level, we have neither money nor personnel.
      The ISS was built as a copy of the Mir station, but then there were ready technologies and personnel, as well as funding from abroad. Foreign funding will disappear and astronautics will gradually disappear from us.
    28. -2
      10 August 2021 09: 02
      For Roskosmos, the orbital station will be a tragedy) People have been quietly stealing astronomical sums for many decades, taking advantage of the government's illiteracy in astronomy)) Of course, the "right people" regularly brought in billions of them, but it was not easy to cling to the fat financial flow - to begin with, it was necessary to understand at least minimally topic. Given the qualifications of the government and near-government structures, this was very difficult.
      In general, not the tenth, not the twentieth, or even the hundredth part of the allocated funds is sent into space. American banks, American "corporations of the state of Delaware" and other similar subcontractors, these are the recipients of the money allocated for "our" astronautics! And then horror, horror ...
      Your own space station! Nightmare !! After all, real money will have to be spent on its functioning! A LOT OF!! Otherwise it will fall! People will die! For a corporation whose activities for decades consisted of reports, withdrawals and flights with American money, this is all simply disastrous. "The right people" will never reduce the amount of bribes they want from Rogozin and his neighbors. And where to get such money, if a significant part of it is forced to go into space ?!
      Once the project is tried to get out of the chatter stage, two things will happen. First, rats will run from Roskosmos in herds. And secondly, it will really become clear what it has become ... I think the "right people" will drown the project. And then you never know what ...
      1. -1
        10 August 2021 12: 57
        laughing Can you give real numbers, except for chatter?
        1. 0
          10 August 2021 16: 37
          Where are you going to bring the key to the apartment? Or send it by mail?)
          1. -2
            10 August 2021 17: 25
            those. in fact there is nothing to say? well, I thought so ..
            1. 0
              10 August 2021 17: 26
              You were waiting for me to publish the account numbers ?! What's wrong with your head?
    29. 0
      10 August 2021 12: 57
      everything is simple - landing on the moon is the second half of the 30s, the ISS, at best, will last until the 30th year ... and then what? wait 7 years to send a couple of astronauts to the moon? so you can lose all competence ... not to mention that there is an option using ROSS as a pier for the lunar program, i.e. a tractor will dock, wait from the ground for a module with astronauts, fuel and supplies and move towards the Moon, then go into the Moon's orbit, then wait for the cosmonauts back and move back to ROSS and so several times ... this will significantly save on the lunar program ...
    30. 0
      10 August 2021 13: 16
      In addition to the prestige of the country and science, the station should still be profitable. Then interest may arise. At least growing monocrystals in a vacuum, for electronic systems, pure bases for medicines, but there are hundreds of types of products that can be mastered.
      1. 0
        10 August 2021 16: 40
        Which ones? In fact, the existence of a space station in modern conditions is a sheer loss. If you know at least something that can make a profit, then there is no one else besides you) What you say is an ordinary volley of non-specific "information", after which all interested parties tend to change the subject rather).
        1. 0
          10 August 2021 16: 49
          Quote: Mikhail3
          In fact, the existence of a space station in modern conditions is a sheer loss.

          Who can argue, I suggested just adding some business and ROI
          Quote: Mikhail3
          What you say is an ordinary volley of non-specific "information", after which all interested parties tend to change the subject rather).

          This is a specific infa, I know that there were plans for the production of pure silicon, smelting of highly pure metals, pure bases for drugs. I understand that in the first couples the price may be exorbitant, but they also wanted to admit Henry Ford crazy for the price of his cars
          1. 0
            10 August 2021 16: 56
            Do you know what year it is? And when did you manage to hang the first station in the sky? If there was even the smallest chance of getting at least some, the smallest, profit, or doing something necessary, it would have been done many, many years ago.
            As a matter of fact, the main problem of astronautics / astronautics on chemical rockets is the hopeless loss of the entire process. It turned out to be beneficial to launch communication satellites and photograph the surface with ultra-high resolution. It's all. Everything else is a monstrous budget hole. You are offering to invest a few more billion dollars in something that will never pay off. Reminds me of an offer to carry potatoes in bulk in a bugatti cabin.
            Bugatti are bought solely to show how cool and rich the buyer is. But the machine is already making a huge hole in the budget. Increasing the operating costs even more is stupid foolishness. The show-offs have already been launched. And nobody's pocket is bottomless))
            1. 0
              12 August 2021 12: 11
              Quote: Mikhail3
              Do you know what year it is? And when did you manage to hang the first station in the sky? If there was even the smallest chance of getting at least some, the smallest, profit, or doing something necessary, it would have been done many, many years ago.
              As a matter of fact, the main problem of astronautics / astronautics on chemical rockets is the hopeless loss of the entire process. It turned out to be beneficial to launch communication satellites and photograph the surface with ultra-high resolution. It's all. Everything else is a monstrous budget hole. You are offering to invest a few more billion dollars in something that will never pay off. Reminds me of an offer to carry potatoes in bulk in a bugatti cabin.
              Bugatti are bought solely to show how cool and rich the buyer is. But the machine is already making a huge hole in the budget. Increasing the operating costs even more is stupid foolishness. The show-offs have already been launched. And nobody's pocket is bottomless))

              What kind of nonsense did you write? You yourself are in what century you live, in a stone
              GROWING SEMICONDUCTOR STRUCTURES
              FOR HIGH PERFORMANCE SOLAR BATTERIES
              IN OPEN SPACE
              http://journal-niss.ru/journal/archive/31/paper6.pdf

              Plant in Space D. Dooling (USA)
              http://epizodsspace.airbase.ru/bibl/getlend/16.html
              1. -1
                12 August 2021 15: 13
                More polite, dear)
                You have provided links to the fact that "they are about to start developing." This is called - give the dough, give the dough, give the dough. So how many years have passed there? When did the Progress take off? And all sorts of "factories" "will begin to develop" if they give the dough? This is nonsense, an attempt at extortion of grants, not the first and not the hundredth. Only now there are no factories, there have never been and never will be) Grow up slowly, dear, develop ...
                1. 0
                  12 August 2021 16: 30
                  Quote: Mikhail3
                  More polite, dear)

                  I have the same reaction to your post, you do not read what I am writing about and are trying to prick me.
                  Quote: Mikhail3
                  You have given links to the fact that "they are about to start developing."

                  I voiced the very idea of ​​earning, and not a specific project you are trying to challenge, without even delving into the essence of the proposal
                  1. -1
                    12 August 2021 17: 29
                    What is the same? Get nasty? Baron von Hamidlo Turle de Purle? What a fine fellow...
                    Why did you voice the "idea"? What's the idea? Space stations were invented a long time ago, and since those forgotten years, everyone has been trying to adapt at least something profitable to them. And then you appear! All in white! Let's ... let's ... let's come up with something profitable !! People who have turned gray, trying to come up with something like that, approve of your post)) (and many have already died. Decades go by) A three-year-old boy comes running and yells - dad! Come on, you make a lot of money !! Come on son, come on ...
                    A careful study of your epoch-making idea will give a lot to me and the world ...
                    1. 0
                      13 August 2021 09: 14
                      Quote: Mikhail3
                      What is the same? Get nasty? Baron von Hamidlo Turle de Purle? What a fine fellow...
                      Why did you voice the "idea"? What's the idea? Space stations were invented a long time ago, and since those forgotten years, everyone has been trying to adapt at least something profitable to them. And then you appear! All in white! Let's ... let's ... let's come up with something profitable !! People who have turned gray, trying to come up with something like that, approve of your post)) (and many have already died. Decades go by) A three-year-old boy comes running and yells - dad! Come on, you make a lot of money !! Come on son, come on ...
                      A careful study of your epoch-making idea will give a lot to me and the world.

                      I wonder what you drank or smoked today, how do you relax there, what is your reaction?
                      1. -1
                        13 August 2021 09: 16
                        I do not like nonsense. And I don't respect boors. Isn't it weird?)
      2. 0
        12 August 2021 09: 16
        Quote: APASUS
        In addition to the prestige of the country and science, the station should still be profitable. Then interest may arise. At least growing monocrystals in a vacuum, for electronic systems, pure bases for medicines, but there are hundreds of types of products that can be mastered.


        The Cristoforo Colombo expedition of 1492-1493 brought outright losses and disappointments, but later:
        In 1508, the ship brought valuables worth 50 thousand pesos to Spain, which caused an unprecedented revival in Spain. Already in 1523, this amount was 400 thousand, and in 1535 it reached 2,5 million, mainly due to the flow of gold and silver from Peru. After the discovery in America of huge deposits of gold and silver, the flow of treasures increased even more.

        During the first two decades of the 14th century, the Spaniards from the Caribbean alone exported about fourteen tons of gold (118 1521 kg). According to rough estimates, the silver mines of the Viceroyalty of New Spain alone in 1548-40,5 gave about 1548 million pesos, and in 1561-24 - 1590 million. Precious metal mining peaked in 1600-16, exceeding XNUMX million from Mexico alone.

        To get something, you must first invest.
        And if we don’t invest, we will only lose our competence.
        Roscosmos does not know where to make money - scientists have other tasks. And private astronautics in the Russian Federation is in its infancy.
        1. -1
          12 August 2021 15: 14
          Dmitry Vladimirich, is it too difficult to calculate how much you have already invested?) Or will you substitute your pocket)?
    31. 0
      10 August 2021 16: 00
      Someone in Roskosmos reads Tarmashev ... Principality ROSS straight
    32. -1
      10 August 2021 21: 27
      But if space stations are "the last century," why are the Americans and their allies creating a Gateway?

      Elementary Watson, this is one of the safety elements of a real (not cinematic) flight to the moon. laughing
    33. +1
      11 August 2021 13: 31
      The permanent station in the orbit of the Moon Gateway, will allow not to constantly carry the lunar landing modules and not to break them on the surface of the Moon after a single use.

      The transportation will look like this: the lander will dock with the Gateway in orbit of the Moon, refuel and serve as a "shuttle" between the lunar base and orbit.
      Transport and manned ships deliver cargo and expeditions to the Gateway in lunar orbit.
      The lander delivers cargo and expeditions to the lunar base and back into orbit.
      Good logistics optimization. A sleek solution for transport and manned landings.

      Slightly reminiscent of an unrealized version of the Soviet three-launch scheme, according to which the landing module was delivered to the lunar orbit in advance and then the manned module was docked to it with the crew.
      1. +1
        11 August 2021 14: 26
        The value of the lunar expedition can be significantly increased if, before manned flights, a preliminary launch with an automatic landing on the moon is made in order to send a part of the payload there and thereby unload subsequent manned spacecraft.

        Thus, you get a three-start scheme. The first launch will be unmanned, transport, and then - a two-launch manned expedition. At the same time, there is only one manned launch of the carrier with a new LOC in it. All four or five astronauts fly on it. They dock in orbit near the Moon with a lunar spacecraft previously delivered there by an unmanned launch.

        The first unmanned launch on the lunar surface can preliminarily throw a power plant with a capacity of three to five kilowatts, a radio station with a highly directional antenna for television broadcasts, and supplies of oxygen, water and food for a month or two. Lunokhod can be delivered by the same flight. Such an automatic aircraft does not need a take-off stage, therefore the mass of the delivered cargo will be very large. The landing of the spacecraft with the astronauts must be accurate in order for the manned LK to land next to this first automatic.

        To speed up the design, it is necessary to select constant modules that do not change from start-up to start-up, and variables that depend on specific tasks. Permanent modules must perform all functions: orientation, navigation, docking in orbits, return to Earth, descent and landing. These functions must be worked out "before ringing" in automatic and manual modes and in the mode of control from the ground. In LOK and LK it is necessary to create maximum [155] comfortable conditions for the crew, taking into account the time spent in the orbit and the surface of the Moon.

        These were the first very general principles of the proposed new lunar program.

        Boris Chertok "Rockets and people" Chapter 9. "Understand and report on the activities."
        Actually. In this "three-launch scheme" scheme of 1968, the Americans added an intermediate gateway, which would allow (over time) not to crash the lander every time, but to supplement it with a propulsion section with fuel for landing and return to orbit.
    34. +1
      11 August 2021 16: 22
      Quote: Stroporez
      Now it is generally difficult to answer the question of why the Russian Federation needs manned astronautics, given that the goals and objectives for the country have not been identified.

      For example, to preserve competence in this area for future generations, who will be able to come up with development goals for the country.
      Or, for example, to ensure that people employed in this area do not go to the market to sell clothes, because their experience and knowledge will not be needed by the Motherland.
    35. 0
      12 August 2021 08: 52
      There are a lot of plans, but how many ISS mules have Russia made in 20 years? And with whose money?

      * But by the beginning of the 1990s, it turned out that the cost of developing the project was too high and it was decided to create a station together with Russia *
    36. 0
      12 August 2021 19: 52
      Not today or tomorrow, anybody will soon, in fact, will cover treaties on the non-militarization of outer space with a "copper basin." And the work, which is being carried out today on a sly sly, will rush at full speed. And then, who "from here will threaten the Swede"? Unless, of course, we do not "help us abroad!"
      And tell us about the indispensable commercial benefits of Tsiolkovsky, Korolev, von Braun, and even Jules Verne, etc. etc. etc. And Dima Medvedev with other liberals to help you
    37. 0
      3 September 2021 16: 53
      Mmm ... Yenisei seems to have been frozen and the project sent for complete processing? Or have they all outplayed again?
    38. 0
      3 September 2021 17: 06
      Quote: Stas157
      y, since Rogozin said, then the way it is! Only it is not clear then - why was the Soviet WORLD drowned?

      Then, that to work at a station that is overgrown with mold due to a failure of the ventilation and air conditioning system, and also requires constantly driving correction engines to maintain orbit, because 12 out of 6 standard gyrodynes of the attitude control system died and those 6 work with difficulty, therefore that out of 12 groups of accumulators 8 died, and the solar batteries, after they were rammed by the enraged Progress-M34, could not be properly restored - rather dumb.
    39. 0
      3 September 2021 17: 19
      Quote: Vladimir A
      There are very big doubts that the United States has the necessary competencies in the construction of space stations. So far they do not have a single successful space station built by them. Even in the ISS, the United States personally built only two modules, and not one with a life support system.

      Nowadays, it is the American-Italian Tranquility that is the main part of the ISS life support system, providing 100% water regeneration and most of the oxygen production. It has been in orbit since 2010.
    40. 0
      4 September 2021 17: 50
      I'm wondering, the author writes about American projects as almost ready-made, and about Russian ones as if they are at the stage of sketch work. the author does not at all take into account the factor that Russian specialists taught them the technologies of building orbital stations. Well, again, not a word about the ZEUS program. Namely, this technology is the future of deep space exploration. Aftar is better off writing essays on Musk's "high-tech" technologies. The one-sided presentation of the material will not be so striking.
    41. 0
      24 September 2021 03: 19
      We had a practical opportunity to "throw Science" into high-orbit orbit. Fly over the poles.
      Okay, we'll master the North Pole later.
      It's a pity. It's a pity to dock the miracle of science to a communal apartment.
    42. +1
      8 October 2021 20: 39
      There will be no "Gateway", countries that could not independently build a station in the orbit of the Earth will not be able to build one in the orbit of another planet or satellite.
    43. +1
      11 October 2021 13: 42
      Our own orbital is vital, it's time to collect stones ... We need to start running in orbital repairs and routine maintenance of space objects, an increase in the duration of active operation of satellites will bring more savings than picking with reusable steps (especially since we do not have a coastal cosmodrome). should be purely Russian and have the main segment - the ministry of defense and special services and a relatively isolated civilian
    44. -1
      12 October 2021 18: 54
      The orbital station consists of modules.
      Base module and other modules.

      If we made one of the modules for ~ 20 years, postponing the launch for some unthinkable reasons (garbage in the pipelines) and successfully launched the launch vehicle, but then dancing with a tambourine began, which could end either with the loss of the module or the ISS, then the question arises:

      - And how many decades after the launch of the first module will the Russian ACS be "put into operation"?
      - This will happen before or after the thieves who robbed the budget (national - taxes, VAT, all cases) come out during the construction of the Vostochny cosmodrome (only the first stage of three has been completed), and there are hundreds of volumes of criminal cases.
    45. 0
      19 October 2021 12: 37
      * The station will be replaced by a new lunar orbital station Gateway. * - well, this is inaccurate. So far, the United States has no experience in independently building a single successful orbital station. And the lunar Gateway is an order of magnitude more complicated.
      Personally, I look at this US intention with great skepticism.
    46. 0
      20 October 2021 22: 08
      While the journalist is at the helm - FIG you and not space! "It's time to change EVERYTHING at the Conservatory for a long time!" (C)
    47. 0
      27 October 2021 16: 27
      The Chinese will build faster.
      I remember in the 90s someone was selling an exact copy (working) of the Mir station, or rather a variant.
      Roofing felts in Japan, roofing felts in China.

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