Far Eastern wars of Russia

There is an opinion - with approximately equal technical equipment and morale, it is not heroism, not willpower that wins, but logistics and supplies, generals can be smart, soldiers are courageous, weapon the best world examples, but if the theater of operations is not prepared, if the delivery of goods and reinforcements is not established, then you will lose. You have to understand that the Far East for Russia is a terrible place from the point of view of logistics - it takes a week from Moscow to Vladivostok, even today, and Sakhalin and Kamchatka are still accessible only by air and sea. In addition, the low population density did not allow, as it does not allow now, to deploy all the necessary industry there and to supply the army and navy at the expense of local resources.

As a result, the events before the war become decisive in the fate of the war - just like we won Khalkhin Gol BEFORE it began, we lost Mukden and Tsushima long before. And the name of these victories and defeats sounds short and understandable - Transsib, from the same Trans-Siberian railway, which was built under two emperors, rebuilt under all secretaries general and is still being supplemented, already under presidents. Even the beginning stories Conflicts with Japan are tied to the same Trans-Siberian, which, for purely geographical reasons, was straightened through the territory of China, thanks to which they got deeply into Chinese affairs, and the desire to end the road with an ice-free port led to what it led to.

Failed exam

But, perhaps, it is better in order, and you need to start with the facts:

“Our most important task at the beginning of the war should be the concentration of our troops. To achieve this task, we should not value any local points, any strategic considerations, keeping in mind the main thing - not to give the enemy the opportunity to defeat our scattered troops. Only having strengthened enough and prepared for the offensive, to go over to that, securing itself as much success as possible. "

It is customary to ridicule Kuropatkin's plan, but did he have a choice? The Japanese a priori seized the sea in the first weeks of the war, a priori controlled their way of supply - the Tsushima Strait, and Kuropatkin has 122 thousand people and 320 guns, if taken together with the forces of the Security Guard. From these modest forces, it is necessary to allocate garrisons for Port Arthur, Vladivostok, Nikolaevsk and Sakhalin and, in fact, for the protection of the CER and YuMZhD themselves. Japan, however, could easily field and supply 150 thousand people before mobilization, and 350 thousand after. Again, supply and reinforcements - with a powerful fleet and a developed network of bases and ports, the Japanese could supply everything they needed in the shortest possible time, but we have 3-4 pairs of military trains per day at the beginning of the war, and 12 at its end. These are 60-80 cars at the beginning, and 240 at the end. With all this, it is a real miracle, the road was single-track and in many sections built on a living thread.

The rest - battles, arrows on the maps and everything else - from the evil one, taking into account the fact that even food had to be brought from European Russia. The war was lost before, reinforcements entered the battle separately, and supply by sea was impossible, our fleet itself was largely dependent on railways. And the Kwantung mousetrap absorbed 25% of the ground forces available at the time of the outbreak of the war. The Empire finally accomplished a miracle and an army of up to a million was collected and supplied ... by the fall of 1905. But by that time the fleet was gone, and there was no point.

I must say - the lesson went for the future and the communication with the Far East began to be actively developed back in the years of the Russian-Japanese. By 1917, the Transsib had become largely double-tracked, and electrification began under Stalin. In addition, there was an active development of the network of highways, airfields and ports already on its territory. A local industry is being created, local oil production and oil refining, Siberia and the Far East are actively populated, which makes it possible not to carry those recruited into the ranks of reservists for thousands of kilometers.

Intermediate exam

And it struck. In 1938, Khasan, where a small border conflict nevertheless occurred, and Khalkhin Gol in 1939. And again - the victory and the defeat were determined by the industry and logistics.

So, in the 57th building of Feklenko at the time of the beginning of the conflict, there were 2636 cars. Tanks, airplanes, the mass of infantry - this is all good, but all this consumes fuel, spare parts, ammunition, foodstuffs that need to be brought up. And the tools of delivery, 34 years after the Russian-Japanese, the USSR had. And in parts of the same cars, and in general - the Transsib has grown. According to the memoirs of Zhukov:

“To carry out the forthcoming very complex operation, we had to drive the following along dirt roads from the supply station to the Khalkhin-Gol River at a distance of 650 kilometers:

- artillery ammunition - 18000 tons;
- ammunition for aviation - 6500 tons;
- various fuels and lubricants - 15000 tons;
- food of all kinds - 4000 tons;
- fuel - 7500 tons;
- other cargoes - 4000 tons. "

All this was safely and smoothly delivered to Transbaikalia by railway, and from there by road directly to the troops. In addition, the following was transferred from the European part of the USSR:

“Additionally, two rifle divisions, a tank brigade, two artillery regiments and other units were brought up. Bomber and fighter aviation was strengthened. "

And this was not the limit, the number of troops and funds in 1 army group could be increased yet, there was no need, for a limited conflict, more forces were collected. And the result was also brilliant - the Japanese were defeated. But if Zhukov had 3-4 pairs of trains a day on the Trans-Siberian Railway and horse-drawn transport for delivery to the front line, it is unlikely that his talent and the heroism of the troops would have played any role. Just as Kuropatkin did not lose because of a fool, Zhukov won not because of his talent. It's just that in the first case, Russia failed the exam for building up and supplying a group in a remote theater of operations, in the second it passed.

Final exam

The war against Japan is interesting primarily not in military operations, although they were brilliant, but in the same damned logistics, and an example of the fact that you can fight without a fleet. Throughout the war in the Far East, the USSR contained and supplied a huge grouping of troops in dozens of divisions and was ready to defend the coast without a fleet - that is, to complete the task that they could not accomplish in 1904 with the presence of ships, moreover, this group became a source of replenishment, resources and everything necessary for the army in action, while the decline was covered by local resources. When the time came, they concentrated in the Far East:

“The transfer of troops was carried out at a distance of 9-12 thousand kilometers. In total, by the beginning of August, a powerful group of Soviet troops numbering 1 people was concentrated in the Far East and on the territory of Mongolia, which had over 669 thousand guns and mortars, 500 thousand tanks and self-propelled guns and over 26 combat aircraft. "

Within just three months. We can say that under Kuropatkin, the technique was worse, but the Japanese also had fewer opportunities. So such a grouping at such a distance for only three months is a kind of miracle. And not only on the continent - powerful groupings were created on the island of Sakhalin, which forty years before that they had not been able to properly prepare for defense, and in Kamchatka, where there were no troops at all. Moreover, not having a normal fleet, we carried out a number of landing operations, proving that it is not the ships and divisions that matter, but the rear, on which the troops rely, and without it they simply sag in the air, forced to operate along the railway on land , constantly retreating in order to shorten the shoulder of his supply and lengthen it for the enemy, and dragging behind him the floating rear at sea, because in his port there is nothing.

Conversely, disrupted logistics with the mother country doomed the Japanese troops to defeat, despite any possible measures. The result is somewhat predictable - having entered the war on August 8, Soviet tanks approached Port Arthur on August 23, ending the history of Russian-Japanese conflicts of the 20th century. And the lessons of this confrontation are very simple - the territory, not provided with reliable transport links with the Center, is only conditionally yours. And the troops placed there are placed in a mousetrap. And no heroism will help, coupled with the art of war, if generals are forced to count resources, and admirals - to save every shell and save on speed and range of transitions. We have learned this lesson ... I want to believe, because any war without reliable logistics is a gamble with a completely predictable end. Neither Kuropatkin nor Otozo Yamada will allow you to lie.

Comments

[Lech from Android.]

Kamchatka, Sakhalin, Kurils ... this is a completely different world compared to the European part of Russia ... these territories are still to be developed and developed ... the main problem is people ... there are very few people there for a normal civilization in these places ... after the work of the reformers of the 90s, the situation only worsened ... there is no work, no prospects, and people left there in large numbers.
It is unlikely that now something has changed for the better in this regard.
And Far East is the richest region and from the state point of view it is necessary to invest there and then there will be a return.

[Uncle lee]

Quote: Lech from Android.

It is unlikely that something has changed for the better now

There were 10 ferries running, now there are three, and one of them is under repair ... If you list the enterprises "perished" at the hands of "reformers", then you will want to sob ...

[Proxima]

"Again, supply and reinforcements - having a powerful fleet and a developed network of bases and ports, the Japanese could bring everything they needed in the shortest possible time, but we have 3-4 pairs of military trains per day at the beginning of the war, and 12 at the end. This is 60- 80 cars at the beginning and 240 at the end. " - from the text. That's it! But these are guaranteed 240 wagons! And no Japanese bomber will bomb them. Conversely, there were no guarantees that the Japanese ship with weapons, people, ammunition, and so on, would reach the port of destination. The Russo-Japanese War was dismantled bit by bit by Soviet specialists. And they came to the surprising conclusion that the war was lost by the tsarist government precisely in logistics. A gross mistake was made: almost the entire fleet was based in Port Arthur! And of course the Japanese calmly blocked it. There are only four cruisers left in Vladivostok. But even this the crumb of cruisers with their raider operations almost brought the sea cargo transportation of the Japanese to their knees. A little more cruisers and destroyers would have left "tsar's clever heads" in Vladik, and that's all - the collapse of Japanese maritime logistics and, accordingly, the natural loss of the Japanese in the war.

[lodochnik2000]

But even this crumb of cruisers with their raider operations almost brought the sea cargo transportation of the Japanese to their knees.

this is a pair (s)
for decades the Russian navy had been pestering the "cruising war", building special ships for it - and pissed off the Japanese in cruising operations too -
https://alan-a-skaz.livejournal.com/184957.html

the total tonnage of Japanese steamships (including those used as military transport) sunk by the Vladivostok detachment amounted to 15 280 tons (which coincides with our calculations here very accurately, who would be surprised), and this is 2,6% of the total pre-war tonnage of the Japanese steam merchant fleet. Almost the same amount (13 312 tons) was lost during the year of the war due to accidents without the slightest participation of the VOK!

For comparison, during the blockade of Port Arthur, the Japanese detained about 60 steamers, incl. 32 under the English flag. Also, in 1904, they seized 23 merchant ships trying to break through the blockade of Vladivostok, including 13 Russians. Later, in January-March 1905, when the Japanese finally took control of all the straits connecting the Sea of ​​Japan with the Pacific Ocean, they managed to seize 22 more foreign merchant ships carrying cargo for Vladivostok. The Japanese blockade proved to be many times more effective than the "Russian cruising war, the first in the world (TM)". Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones. In total, the Japanese detained or seized more than a hundred (105) ships with Russian cargo for Port Arthur and Vladivostok. This is 7,5 times more than the list of its "victories" in "transport" declared by the FOC, and at least 20 times more than the real list of what was worth recalling from the production of FOC

[Uncle lee]

Quote from Uncle Lee

at the hands of the "reformers"

I go nuts - six out of ten are happy with the collapse of industry, the fleet, sea and fishing, transport, agriculture, construction ..... There are oil, gas and coal left, for take-away to foreign partners!

[alekseykabanets]

Quote from Uncle Lee

I go nuts - six out of ten rejoice at the collapse of industry, the fleet, sea and fishing, transport, agriculture, construction .... There are still oil, gas and coal left for foreign partners to take away!

This is how they express their patriotism and support the current course of liberal economic reforms.)))) In fact, there is nothing to write about, and so he put a minus and killed his opponent.)))

[Uncle lee]

Quote: aleksejkabanets

and so minus put and killed the opponent.)))

And note that the footmen are very aggressive!

[alekseykabanets]

Quote from Uncle Lee

And note that the footmen are very aggressive!

There is a good film, now they do not show it, "Eternal Call" is called, there is such a character, by the name of Kosorotov, I could not understand his character, the reasons for his actions. So it’s the same with these lackeys, they are of the same field.

[strannik1985]

I'm fucking crazy

Costs of a market economy. Even if we put aside the "wild capitalism" of the 90s - roughly speaking, the volume of money supply should be equal to the volume of goods and services in the economy, a number of countries bypass this condition by crediting each other. If you pay attention to the size of the budget of the USSR and the amount of cash, you will see that there is very little cash in the Soviet economy (especially in the 30s), i.e. in the Union a significant amount of money never existed in the form of banknotes and coins, did not create shortage of goods and did not provoke inflation. When there was a transition from a social economy to a market financial system, the financial system collapsed, money was sorely lacking, factories were closed.

[Uncle lee]

Quote: strannik1985

factories were closed.

And this is not the fault of finances, but of the Gaidars, Chubais, Yavlinsky, Kudrins, etc. ...

[strannik1985]

And this is to blame

We are to blame, but even if this whole gang were a bunch of honest people, the result would be little better, especially for the outlying regions, such as the Far East, Siberia, the North (with the exception of the mining industry). For a different result, at least 80-90% of the banking sector must be state-owned.

[Uncle lee]

Quote: strannik1985

80-90% of the banking sector should be state-owned.

Better than 100%

[ViacheslavS]

And what will happen if 80-90% of the banking sector becomes state-owned?

[strannik1985]

And what will happen if

Move the money from the right pocket to the left, now your left pocket should be right. Careful?
Similarly with the state banking sector, money is invested in infrastructure projects, at a very low interest rate and for long periods, often later, after construction, the debt is restructured (forgiven). There is more money in the economy, it is easier to work. Japan, Germany and China work approximately according to this scheme.

[ViacheslavS]

Similarly with the state banking sector, money is invested in infrastructure projects, at a very low interest rate and for long periods, often later, upon construction, the debt is restructured (forgiven). There is more money in the economy, it is easier to work.

But isn't Russia allocating money, let alone at a low interest rate, without interest at all, for a head start, the Vostochny Cosmodrome, the Crimean Bridge, some nuclear power plants, etc.?

Japan, Germany and China work approximately according to this scheme.

But after all, in Japan and Germany, obviously 80-90% of banks are not state-owned, I don’t know about China, it’s more and more difficult for it to be officially ruled by the Communist Party, but in reality it is capitalism.

[strannik1985]

Is it in Russia

There is the so-called key rate of the Central Bank, below it banks cannot give interest, because they will not receive profit. In the Russian Federation now it is 6,50%, in Germany 0, in Japan 0,1%, in China 3,85%.

But in Japan

In China, 90% of loans fall on state banks (now the entire amount of loans circulating in the Chinese economy is approximately 300% of GDP), in Germany 2/3 of bank assets fall on savings banks, municipal and land banks, 1/3 on private banks, and then there is the bank KfW (Credit Development Institute), 80% owned by the federal and 20% land governments. It is he who supports the main directions of the economy, the amount of loans issued in the region of 0,5 trillion euros (12% of Germany's GDP).

[ViacheslavS]

There is the so-called key rate of the Central Bank, below it banks cannot give interest, because they will not receive profit. In the Russian Federation now it is 6,50%, in Germany 0, in Japan 0,1%, in China 3,85%.

The key rate is determined by the economic situation, the Central Bank can set a rate of 0.1%, but I think few people will like the consequences.

Looked at the largest Russian banks

1. Sberbank - the owner of 50% plus 1 share of PJSC Sberbank is the National Welfare Fund of Russia.
2. VTB - 60,9% of the bank's ordinary shares are owned by the state, the remaining 39% are in free float; including preferred shares, 92% of the group's share capital is under state control. The second largest bank of Russia in terms of assets and the first in terms of authorized capital
3. Gazprombank - it's harder to shoot
The shareholders of Gazprombank (Joint Stock Company) are:

PJSC Gazprom (owns 27,9893% of ordinary shares);
LLC Gazprom Capital (owns 21,8952% of ordinary shares);
Joint Stock Company “Non-state Pension Fund“ GAZFOND ”controls 40,89% of ordinary shares, of which:
4,7879% of NPF GAZFOND JSC is owned directly;
36,0979% controls through the following shareholders of the Bank:
12,7753% is owned by PJSC GAZ-Service, 14,5713% is owned by PJSC GAZKON and 8,7513% is owned by PJSC GAZ-Tek;
Management (owns 0,0116% of ordinary shares);
VEB.RF (owns 8,0253% of ordinary shares);
Leader CJSC (owns 0,7158% of ordinary shares);
NPF GAZFOND Pension Savings JSC (owns 0,4770% of ordinary shares);
Russian Federation represented by the Ministry of Finance of the Russian Federation (owns 100% of type A preferred shares);
State Corporation "Deposit Insurance Agency" (owns 100% of preferred shares of type B).


That is, the three largest banks in Russia are, in one way or another, owned by the state.

[strannik1985]

The key rate is determined by the economic situation

Everyone will like it, except for the bankers and their servants.

That is, the three largest

In terms of number, a little more than 12% of 378 Russian banks are state-owned, in terms of assets today, 65,9%, for example, a controlling stake in Sberbank was transferred from the Central Bank to the Ministry of Finance this spring, the issue price is a little over 2 trillion rubles.

[ViacheslavS]

Everyone will like it, except for the bankers and their servants.

Bankers will not be left without money, even with a zero rate at least with the current one. But for the population, when the ruble depreciates even more and prices still soar, it will not be fun at all. After all, real money in the economy is not what is printed, but what is earned.

In terms of number, a little more than 12% of 378 Russian banks are state-owned, and 65,9% in terms of assets, for example, a controlling stake in Sberbank was transferred from the Central Bank to the Ministry of Finance in the spring of this year, the issue price is a little over 2 trillion rubles.

What does this change, your thesis above was that if the banks were state-owned, they would give loans at a low interest rate, I will repeat myself now the state gives no interest at all money for giant infrastructure projects. The point is not how money is given (although this is important), but how it is disposed of. AvtoVAZ was given billions, but more or less that something of high quality went only after Renault came to the plant.

[strannik1985]

But the population

Looking at what to spend.

What does it change

If you spend on infrastructure projects in basic industries and energy (KfW in Germany, Post Bank in Japan, BNDES (Bank for Social and Economic Development) in Brazil), lowering the key rate and increasing the payment terms, there will be no inflation. Now the ratio of Japan's public debt to GDP is 266%, Germany - 69,8%, China - 66,8. All these countries are developing successfully.

[ViacheslavS]

If you spend on infrastructure projects in basic industries and energy (KfW in Germany, Post Bank in Japan, BNDES (Bank for Social and Economic Development) in Brazil)

In Russia now they spend a lot of money on infrastructure in basic industries, whole industries (such as air) are financed by the state.

by lowering the key rate and increasing the payment terms, there will be no inflation.

There would be no inflation, they would have lowered it long ago, I repeat, the bankers will not be left without money, the oligarchs too. Most likely, the problems are in the Russian economy itself, here if I am not mistaken Glazyev or Khazin persistently proposed to reduce the rate to values ​​less than 1%, but they avoided answering the question of whether they themselves are ready in this case to give loans from their own funds or the funds for which they are responsible at that rate.

[strannik1985]

In Russia now they spend

Everything is learned in comparison, for example, for October 2017, the money supply M2 of the Russian Federation is 39,6 trillion rubles, GDP for the same year is 92 trillion rubles, i.e. 0,43 cash per ruble of products, money supply of the Eurozone countries for 2016 10,2 , 11,8 trillion euros, and GDP 0,86 trillion, i.e. for the euro of production XNUMX euros of cash. Those. all other things being equal, our company is content with half the amount of money than our competitors in Europe.

There would be no inflation

So it is not, the laws of economics work with respect to any market economy. The question is strange, because Khazin or Glazyev have no right to print money, the state is engaged in this.

[ViacheslavS]

Those. all other things being equal, our company is content with half the amount of money than our competitors in Europe.

Well, it’s not right to compare on the forehead either.

So it is not, the laws of economics work with respect to any market economy.

So inflation in Russia is not small.

[DymOk_v_dYmke]

Quote: strannik1985

If you pay attention to the size of the budget of the USSR and the amount of cash, you will see that there is very little cash in the Soviet economy (especially in the 30s), i.e. in the Union a significant amount of money never existed in the form of banknotes and coins, did not create shortage of goods and did not provoke inflation. When there was a transition from a social economy to a market financial system, the financial system collapsed, money was sorely lacking, factories were closed.

The point is not about market / anti-market.
The financial system of the USSR and CMEA (!) Did not collapse by itself, -
it was artificially collapsed by Gorbachev's "brigade".
(These will be remembered for generations ...)
Ban on the use of the CMEA transferable ruble in mutual settlements
destroyed the economies of the CMEA countries overnight.
Nits received a Judas royalties for this decision by paying for a pizza advertisement.
(Don't hai, the descendants of Judas pay for this and adequately "thank" their parents!)

The second step in breaking the economic basis of the socialist system was to break down the barrier between non-cash and cash. This will come back to haunt us for decades to come.

[Korsar4]

And they continue to leave.

[Uncle lee]

The lackeys are running wild!

[Catfish]

Prospects were hazy, now complete hopelessness looms out of the fog.

[Korsar4]

Nobody canceled voting with their feet. Only the Moscow region is turning into a Mega-human.

[Catfish]

I liked the idea of ​​moving the capital to Tmutarakan.

[Korsar4]

The idea with Vasyuki also sparkled with bright colors.

[Catfish]

Dreaming is not forbidden.

[Korsar4]

But in Kalmykia City-Chess appeared. And the monument to Ostap Bender too.

[Catfish]

Better Bender than anything else.

[ViacheslavS]

There is a lot of internal migration to Krasnodar.

[Uncle lee]

Quote: Sea Cat

out of the fog

Clear nautical classification!

[Region-25.rus]

And they continue to leave.

I'm one of those who left ... Vladivostok is still breathing somehow, but Nakhodka is completely bent ((((Not to mention smaller settlements

[DymOk_v_dYmke]

Quote: Region-25.rus

I'm one of those who left ... Vladivostok is still breathing somehow, but Nakhodka is completely bent ((((Not to mention smaller settlements

In the same way, central Russia is bent over the anti-Sovietism of the last decades.
Those who remember that Russia not only "made galoshes" perfectly understand the reasons.

[Olgovich]

Quote: DymOk_v_dYmke

In the same way, central Russia is bent over the anti-Sovietism of the last decades.

Central Russia was ruined by a 70-year-old soviet : by 1989, in just 30 years since 1959, Soviet "achievers" destroyed more than HALF of settlements in Russia (160 thousand) , closed more than 40 thousand from schools, thousands of recreation centers and medical centers, vast territories became wild, tens of millions of agricultural lands were abandoned, they robbed Russia in favor of the republics,the biggest demographic crisis (depopulation) since 1960 ("Central Russia must be urgently resettled!" - declared the Soviet demographer Perevedentsev), plunged the Russian village into a murderous crisis and ruin, and already in 1990, THIRD regions (Russians, of course) of Russia lived in conditions of extinction.

but just 40 years before 1960, in normal Russia, in the European part there were 40 million EXCESSIVE population, and in 1960 it had to be re-populated ..

[Region-25.rus]

by 1989, in just 30 years from 1959, Soviet "achievers" destroyed more than HALF of the settlements of Russia (160 thousand), closed more than 40 thousand from schools, thousands of DKs and medical centers,

But in the late 80s, my class and I went to the state farm "Golden Valley" near Nakhodka to harvest vegetables and fruits - potatoes, tomatoes, cucumbers, apples, pears, apricots, currants, strawberries ... and all this grew in Primorye ... Apparently "commies" did not have time to destroy. But after the "redrawing" everything bent at once. Now everyone is from China. What is possible only from despair and lack of choice. Milk was from the village. Milogradovo and Lazo. There were state farms there. And now .... "Danone" and stuff in palm oil.

Central Russia was ruined by 70 years of the Soviet Union

again infa from "YeltsYn-center"? Only for some reason under the "Soviet" I saw a bunch of villages and settlements in our Primorye. And now there are ruins. And yes, you would give me the contacts of your curators. I would write that they pay money in vain)) Clumsy work

[Olgovich]

Quote: Region-25.rus

But back in the late 80s, my class and I went to the "Golden Valley" state farm near Nakhodka to harvest fruits and vegetables - potatoes, tomatoes, cucumbers, apples, pears, apricots, currants, strawberries ..

It never occurred to me that it was DIKO, when the engineers stood singing up in the field instead of working at the drawing board, and this is because all the peasants RUNNED from the Soviet agricultural area?

WHO will work in that village today, if the young people fled from the village while you were still there, the village stopped giving birth? Yours brought the peasants out as a class, you taught people to work, to give birth, but you taught them to drink and wait for handouts

Bring back that young, enterprising, entrepreneurial people, full of strength and desire to work, which your accomplishments captured in 1917 (which yours got drunk, cracked old, forgot how to work) and you will see how the village will flourish.

Quote: Region-25.rus

Only for some reason under the "Soviet" I saw a bunch of villages and settlements in our Primorye. And now there are ruins.

They DID already under the Soviet regime and because of it and IMPOSSIBLY, see the given FACTS: in just 30 years by 1989 you ALREADY destroyed more than half of settlements in Russia (more than 160 thousand) and tens of thousands more on the brink of extinction-read the census of 1959 and 1989, ignoramus.
In just 20 years from 1959 to 1979, the rural population of Russia yours have been reduced by FORTY-FOUR percent- SOMEONE began to neither live in the vast expanses of Russia, nor work, the old people remained, which became extinct in the 90s. And all this in just 20 years!

Quote: Region-25.rus

And yes, you would have given

I don’t serve on Fridays.
Maybe your wife will help you and?

[Region-25.rus]

Bring back that young, enterprising people, full of strength and desire to work, that your achievements captured in 1917

are these kulaks-world eaters? Well, yes, they captured and sent to special settlements so that they would not rob hard workers

which your got drunk, broke, aged, forgot how to work)

I saw this (personally) after the "redrawing". When the new "efficient" tractors were sold, combine harvesters for metal, and the land began to be leased to the Chinese. Who killed thousands of hectares of land with their chemicals.
The same applies to and-

initiative entrepreneurial people

yes ... they did it ... they did it so effectively that after the "holy 90s" out of more than 150 fishing vessels of medium and large tonnage of one of the city-forming enterprises of my city (NBAMR), a dozen remained. Everything else was sold and cut. And these are thousands of crew members (kicked in the back and behind the gates), thousands of people on the coastal infrastructure is the same. The same applies to two shipyards, apart from any factories, in the buildings of which there are now markets and offices. Well, for an ardent follower of Chubais, this is certainly good. Who would argue.

then it is DIKO, when the engineers stood singing up in the field instead of working at the drawing board and this is because,

I personally enjoyed it. Tear off a couple of times a YEAR to tear off the loins from the chair And warm up in the open air))))

then all the peasants ran away from the soviet agricultural area?

strange! Apparently
milk, poultry, meat, vegetables and fruits grew by themselves Yes, say about the deficit. Definitely, since the mid-80s, it was BUT, eating such a word - sabotage. And do you know who rotted food, heating the people? - People like you! To kill Soviet ideology, seize power and openly and legally plunder the country. What we are now seeing.

They DID already under the soviet regime and because of it and IMPOSSIBLY, see the given FACTS:

"I said so! And these are FACTS" (c) olgovich)))

Quote: Region-25.rus
And yes you would give

I don’t serve on Fridays.
Maybe your wife will help you and?

- full quote -

And yes, you would gave me contacts Your curators. I would write that they pay money in vain)) Clumsy work

Again, taking out of context and trying to distort the meaning. Moreover, it is primitive to reduce to the topic "below the belt"

wife will help you

.
You work primitively. Your "propaganda" can have an effect on children. Well, or for those who have kept "an unclouded vision of the world" to gray hair
You yourself are probably retired? Yes, calculated by Soviet standards

[Olgovich]

Quote: Region-25.rus

are these kulaks-world eaters? Well, yes, they captured and sent to special settlements so that they would not rob hard workers

it captured 145 million of the people of Russia.

I do not know the "world eaters" and the LAW does not know, there is a CITIZEN of the country, whom NOBODY could rob and exile without a COURT. "laws".

They were exiled and robbed, incl. A MILLION CHILDREN. WHAT was human in the exiles? Nothing.

Quote: Region-25.rus

I saw this (personally) after the "redrawing". When the new "efficient" tractors were sold, combine harvesters for scrap metal, and the land began to be leased to the Chinese. Which with their chemicals killed thousands of hectares of land.

that's what you brought up, and before your thieves in 1917, people Fought for every piece of land - to work on it and live, and with you it no one needs it anymore..

Hack on your forehead: 90% of arable land Russia was EXHAUSTED by the 1980s.

At the same time, TENS OF MILLION hectares of agricultural land were abandoned - there is SOMEONE to cultivate them, you cannot drive up to them, there are no roads, no funds.

Quote: Region-25.rus

personally I was high... Tear off a couple of times a YEAR, tear off the loins from the chair And warm up in clean air)))

this is due to the fact that not the sirloin, but the brain parts were torn off the chair, and a normal person understands that this is a complete collapse and wild losses - they kept the engineering salary in the workplace, yes

Quote: Region-25.rus

strange! Apparently
milk, poultry, meat, vegetables and fruits grew by themselves

The old people who did not leave were raised, tearing the veins, working for wear and tear, in wild inhuman conditions, seven days a week, for a penny, as they used to. They died, the village disappeared, no one remained.

And the youth spat on comm. stupid appeals and hard work for a pittance was not going to and ran away.

Quote: Region-25.rus

Yes, tell me about dЕscarcity. Definitely, since the mid-80s, it has been BUT, there is such a word - sabotage. And do you know who rotted food, heating the people? - People like you! To kill Soviet ideology, seize power and openly and legally plunder the country. What we are now seeing.

ON THE TABLE orders / reports / about sabotage, a liar, the names of the leaders of the executors (and these are tens of thousands), witnesses, evidence

Those. YOUR system TO SET up production / supply ... could not, but coped with sabotage ... fine? A remarkable recognition!

And yes, hack on your forehead: THIRD of an already poor harvest ALWAYS, all 70 years with your "craftsmen" / * "owners" , went UNDER SNOW and into DIRT

Quote: Region-25.rus

"I said so! And these are FACTS" (c) olgovich)))

see, I say it again, THE 1959 AND 1989 CENSUS. Read the monographs of DN Denisova, Beznin, etc. And these FACTS are not known only to you, due to the denseness. Except you, NOBODY denies them

Quote: Region-25.rus

Taking out of context again and trying to distort the meaning

I do not care about someone's "meaning", I write that, I consider it necessary.

Quote: Region-25.rus

Moreover, it is primitive to reduce to the topic "below the belt"

no need to judge others by yourself

Quote: Region-25.rus

Your "propaganda" can have an effect on children.

you are given the FACTS of a horrific disaster arranged by your "craftsmen". From you in response, cheap, powerless, empty chatter / water, not refuting anything.

Shame ...

[Region-25.rus]

Hack into your forehead

some already with a bunch of such "hacks" on their foreheads

I do not know

Noticeable. I would say so - "I don’t want to know and I only accept what I like (or profitable) "

years people Fought for every piece of land - to work and live on it

aha .... fought. And then they sent guards regiments from the capitals and with bayonets cooled the ardor "to work for her."

ON THE TABLE orders / reports / about sabotage, a liar, the names of the leaders of the executors (and these are tens of thousands), witnesses, evidence

Similarly TO TABLE -

Hack it on your forehead: 90% of Russia's arable land was depleted by the 1980s.

Facts! Where are the facts? Only not the post-perestroika ANALYTICS and HISTORICS

YET and so poor harvest ALWAYS, all 70 years with your "craftsmen" / * "owners" lol, went UNDER SNOW and into the DIRT

those. the whole country fed on snow and mud? Including me? somehow did not notice. There was a bread factory in the city, and even the Japanese coming to us "bread with snow and mud" bought trunks and took them to their islands.

And these FACTS are not known only to you, due to the denseness

I saw how it was BEFORE and AFTER. And did not seek out "facts" from rabid anti-Sovietists

Except you, NOBODY denies them

that, directly ALL the country does not deny, but I deny this ONE? Well, this is only in your "world of pink ponies and unicorns"))))

I do not care about someone's "meaning", I write that, I consider it necessary.

smacks of youthful maximalism)) You definitely "caught and remember Khrushchev"? Or is it a modern schoolboy?

no need to judge others by yourself

Well, you do it all the time? No?)))

you are given the FACTS of a terrifying catastrophe arranged by your "craftsmen"

No one However, as usual -

I write what I think is necessary.

From you -

in return, cheap, powerless, idle chatter / water that refutes nothing.

and I'm not trying to refute your nonsense))) And I'm not writing for you personally If it has not come yet))

ON THE TABLE orders / reports / about sabotage, liar, the names of the leaders of the executors

a list of Forbes, the State Duma, oligarchs and those close to them

And the youth spat on the comm. stupid appeals and hard work for a pittance was not going to and ran away.

where did you run away? After all, in the "scoop" everyone lived from hand to mouth (according to your worldview). For the "hillock"? So they weren't allowed before))) Or escaped to the "other world"?

this is due to the fact that not the sirloin, but the brain parts were torn from the chair, and a normal person understands

I still tear off the sirloin parts for walks of 7-10 km daily. And work (exclusively mental, not only does not suffer, but rather the opposite)). And what, scientists and engineers were driven straight for half a year to earthworks? Seriously? And, is it "normal" according to Khabensky in the film "Sobibor"?

[Olgovich]

Quote: Region-25.rus

Noticeable. I would say so - "I do not want to know and I accept only what I like (or profitable)"

NOBODY knows if it hasn't come: there was no such crime in the Criminal Code as a "fist", but a CITIZEN and his RIGHTS were.
True, only on paper

Quote: Region-25.rus

aha .... fought.

just fought, teach the history of your country, ignoramus.

And with YOU, the earth has already become ANYONE need not-so you discouraged and the desire to work on it

Quote: Region-25.rus

those. the whole country fed on snow and mud? Including me?

you can refute the given FACT? No?

then Free, with your empty chatter.

Quote: Region-25.rus

I saw how it was BEFORE and AFTER. And did not seek out "facts" from rabid anti-Sovietists

you are given the facts of strictly Soviet, ignorant-read SOVIET censuses, as well as monographs of scientists

Quote: Region-25.rus

that, directly ALL the country does not deny, but I deny this ONE?

not one, there are still ignoramuses. But more or less literate communists know them

Quote: Region-25.rus

and I'm not trying to refute your nonsense))) And I am not writing for you personally If it has not yet come down to this))

you do not refute ... SOVIET (always false, moreover) the data given to you

Quote: Region-25.rus

a list of Forbes, the State Duma, oligarchs and those close to them

DOCUMENTS on the table, not your BOLT.
Got it, no?

Quote: Region-25.rus

where did you run away? After all, in the "scoop" everyone lived from hand to mouth (according to your worldview). For the "hillock"? So they weren't allowed before))) Or escaped to the "other world"?

I ran away to the CITY from that WILD life that you have arranged in a Russian village for 70 years

Quote: Region-25.rus

I still tear off the sirloin parts for walks of 7-10 km daily. And work (exclusively mental, not only does not suffer, but rather the opposite)). And what, scientists and engineers were driven straight for half a year to earthworks? Seriously? And, is it "normal" according to Khabensky in the film "Sobibor"?

brain parts, judging by the set of "knowledge"

Quote: Region-25.rus

Only families had 2-3 child.

to SCHOOL, ignoramus!

Quote: Region-25.rus

... And now ... now the yard is empty. And the city had up to 250K population. After the well-known reforms, 150 thousand. And this is with the Chinese and "come in large numbers" from Asian countries.

and this is a CONSEQUENCE of the poor Soviet demography, in which the birth rate kept falling and falling, and the population was aging, go to SCHOOL and read at least something!

Quote: Region-25.rus

I agree, they disappeared in YOUR mode. With MY I saw settlements, with YOUR I don't see them. And I ran through different settlements

Isn't it interesting to learn ANYTHING from the HISTORY OF YOUR country ?! And find out where the legs grow from?

Shame ...

[Region-25.rus]

Isn't it interesting to learn ANYTHING from the HISTORY OF YOUR country ?! belay And find out where the legs grow from?

boy! I know, and I study without hysterics and shouts in the style -

WILD, SCHOOL, EVERYONE, always lying, moreover, to ANYONE, NOBODY

what is so inherent in young people due to age

and this is a CONSEQUENCE of the poor Soviet demography, in which the birth rate kept falling and falling

those. ONCE did everyone die in one day?

teach the History of your country, ignoramus.

I teach Only not according to Kiselev and Solovyov

Only families had 2-3 children.

to SCHOOL, ignoramus!

go to school to study what I saw and remember myself? Yes, even with people like you at the same desk? Nope ... I'm a bit old La and seeing the learning outcomes in these schools ....
and again -

Isn't it interesting to learn ANYTHING from the HISTORY OF YOUR country ?!

Apparently you have just started to surround the world around you)) Well, success)))
And less CAPSite this is a clear sign of failure and the predominance of emotions over reason

[Olgovich]

Quote: Region-25.rus

boy! I know, and I study without hysterics and shouts in style

baby, go to kindergarten with such "knowledge."

Quote: Region-25.rus

those. ONCE did everyone die in one day?

Quote: Region-25.rus

I teach Only not according to Kiselev and Solovyov

you don't know ANYTHING.

Quote: Region-25.rus

go to school to study what I saw and remember myself?

to KNOW why such a supposedly "successful" regime collapsed all the time, which turned out to be rotten and bankrupt.

Quote: Region-25.rus

And less

less advice, yes - the country of advice has long since expired.

PS we state-on the FACTS you are able to answer only with chatter.

[Region-25.rus]

you can only answer with chatter

like
Moreover, my "chatter" is logical (for those who have logic and critical thinking).

you don't know ANYTHING.

reading exclusively anti-Soviet literature .. well, such a "knowledge" And your "knowledge" is extremely one-sided! )) Often to the point of absurdity. Especially about "millions of shot" Personally, Stalin (here, of course, I'm exaggerating a little))))

TO KNOW why such a supposedly "successful" regime has collapsed all the time

I already know why, what kind of people and most importantly why brought down the USSR

less tips

you give advice and epithets here Send by the way too))

[Foul skeptic]

people fought for every piece of land, to work on it and live, and with you, no one needs it anymore.

A strange argument to defend your position. People fought because the amount of land directly affected whether you could feed yourself. In the modern world, a person does not have such a problem.

Hack it on your forehead: 90% of Russia's arable land was depleted by the 1980s.

Confirm your words, do mercy. Only not by referring to the author, but by indicating a document with a page. We will see.

Abandoned at the same time TENS OF MILLION hectares of agricultural land

Confirm your words, do mercy. Only not by referring to the author, but by indicating a document with a page. We will see. Because these words of yours - a lie - are simply checked on your favorite Istmath in statistical collections.

ON THE TABLE orders / reports / about sabotage, a liar, the names of the leaders of the executors (and these are tens of thousands), witnesses, evidence

I remember that you once asked for the minutes of the meetings of the conspirators in some of the other topics.

And yes, hack on your forehead: THIRD of an already poor harvest ALWAYS, all 70 years with your "craftsmen" / * "owners" lol, went UNDER SNOW and into DIRT

Confirm your words, do mercy. Only not by referring to the author, but by indicating a document with a page. We will see.

I say it again, the 1959 and 1989 CENSUS.

AND? What did you see there?

I do not care about someone's "meaning", I write that, I consider it necessary.

King, very nice, king?

[Region-25.rus]

Ok)) I will delete it indeed)) Although, if for the eyes this is one thing, but in public it is completely different though ..... with modern "concepts" and rules (when - "if they start killing you - call! ) anything can happen)))

[Olgovich]

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

Strange an argument to defend your position.

all of them live in a world of sheer oddities, but this is not a reason to tell them about the strangeness of others

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

People fought because the amount of land directly affected whether you could feed yourself. In the modern world, a person does not have such a problem.

fought because there were many people who WANTED to work for it, but there was LITTLE land.

After your "successful people" this same land is already no one needs it -No people physically (yours brought them out), or those who want to work on it (yours have weaned them off).

And yes: there are a little less than a BILLION hungry people in the world (UN) -that is "no problem" on your forehead, yes ...

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

Confirm your words, do mercy. Only

monograph by L.N. Denisova "Disappearing village of Russia".
there are all the rebuttals of your idle chatter / lies about "lies".
You will also find pages there. And there it IS.
And your screams about "lies", a liar, I warn you right away - they are not interested even once and I will not answer them.

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

I remember that you once asked for the minutes of the meetings of the conspirators in some of the other topics.

what have you found already?

And there is nothing and there is nothing here either? Again, an empty, unsubstantiated TATTOO?

When you find it, come. Until then, don't bother

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

AND? What did you see there?

your "all-time achievers" destroyed more than half of the settlements in Russia (about 160 thousand) tens of thousands from schools, recreation centers and first-aid posts, turning the territories used for centuries into a wild bush - your tebily even themselves admitted this in the slogan "Non-Black Earth Region - the second ... CELINA!"

[Foul skeptic]

fought because there were many people who WANTED to work for it, but there was LITTLE land.

Your stupidity about “wanted to work” (in the form of the saying “we don’t need bread, let’s work”) as an incentive for a person to work does not stand up to criticism. To understand its inconsistency, it is enough to go from the opposite and consider the situation when a person owns a lot of this very land. The nature of man and his motives are still unchanged, otherwise there was already communism. Always and at all times people work in order to be able to themselves and their children, primarily, to feed, that is, it is banal to survive.

And yes: there are a little less than a BILLION hungry people in the world (UN) -that is "no problem" on your forehead, yes ...

You know the funniest thing about communicating with you? I gave you a phrase similar to the one that you wrote as an argument in one of the disputes where you said that socialism did not feed anyone, and now under capitalism there is a lot of food. But you decided not to consider it an argument. Why? We see here, we don't see here? Black is white and white is black?
Therefore, maybe you will be honest and stop pretending that you do not understand what your opponent meant when he wrote about the absence of problems?

monograph by L.N. Denisova "Disappearing Village of Russia".
there are all the rebuttals of your idle chatter / lies about "lies".
You will also find pages there. And there it IS.
And your screams about "lies", a liar, I warn you right away - they are not interested even once and I will not answer them.

What kind of reinsurer you are, you immediately laid a straw
You were asked about a specific thing

Only not by referring to the author, but by indicating a document with a page.

And what do we see? And what was supposed - you cannot confirm your words.
Denisova with her monograph will be cited as evidence only by a person who did not even try to verify what she wrote there. Do you want me to demonstrate to you the "quality" of this monograph with a couple of simple examples from it? And then I will arrange an educational program, why was this monograph ever published and how is this connected with the date of its appearance?

what have you found already?

And there are minutes of meetings of conspirators about a conspiracy? Will you show at least one example of such a protocol on those conspiracies, the reality of which will not cause you any doubts? So that you can understand that such a thing can exist in the real world, and not in your invented one?

your "successful people" destroyed MORE THAN HALF of settlements in Russia (about 160 thousand) tens of thousands from schools, recreation centers and first-aid posts

Do you remember that you were asked and the sequence of messages? Or do you care what to write, just to write?

[Olgovich]

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

Your stupidity

.

Quote: A vile skeptic

folly

in the form of your insinuations, no one is interested, for the hundredth time I tell you.

And people always work precisely in order to survive, and only for Tebils such clarifications are required.

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

You know the funniest thing about communicating with you?

I know: I show my finger, and you laugh

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

I gave you a phrase similar to the one that you wrote as an argument in one of the disputes where you said that socialism did not feed anyone

untenable "argument is not accepted, because socialism has NOT fed ANYONE, but hunger killed tens of millions of people to death in ... in the 20th century and, most importantly, in principle, he could not feed, never-ineffective even once ..

And nowhere in normal developed countries was there such a wild hunger, only you.

Hunger is present in undeveloped countries, yes, but the world is also imperfect and no one has argued otherwise.

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

Therefore, maybe you will be honest and stop pretending that you do not understand what your opponent meant when he wrote about the absence of problems?

you have reported problems:

In the modern world, a person does not have such a problem.

.
and it exists precisely because of the lack of land: if, hypothetically, the hungry are given empty fertile land, they will feed themselves.

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

What kind of reinsurer you are, you immediately laid a straw
You have asked about a specific thing
Only not by referring to the author, but by indicating the document from the page.

You have been repeatedly told that I should sneeze at these requests: I do not respect you (and more than that), I do not want to communicate and, accordingly, I do not owe you anything.

The source is given, the stated facts are given there, and your unwillingness to read, know and admit the complete bankruptcy of your regime is not interesting even once.

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

Denisova with her monograph will only be cited as evidence by a person who

You are Nobody to judge DIN and me - for the hundredth time I remind
Modesty was not taught in childhood, yes ..

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

Want to,

I want one thing and have repeatedly said about it: to avoid the vile obsessive annoying antics from the outside, but ... does not get it.

And the result of your antics is perfectly visible: complete bankruptcy and disaster in absolutely everything: , and the top of your "development" - coupons for women's panties once a quarter

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

And there are minutes of meetings of conspirators about a conspiracy?

Yeah, there was an all-Union conspiracy of sabotage, but without traces in the form of orders, reports, receipts, executors and witnesses.

Only a tebil can believe in this, knowing how the owl system worked, each step of which was overgrown with TONS of papers.

And here it is so promptly, no one was afraid to destroy, sabotage on ... a call (apparently the KGB, the Ministry of Internal Affairs, etc. promised not to plant, not to investigate), you did not find any honest ones at all (which is indicative) and everything is on trust

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

Do you remember that you were asked and the sequence of messages?

you do not understand what you are asking, nor what you are answered.

[Region-25.rus]

And the result of your antics is perfectly visible: complete bankruptcy and disaster in absolutely everything: and the peak of your "development" is coupons for women's panties once a quarter

But now, apparently, most of the goods are produced in Russia (or wherever you have) and are not purchased with funds from the sale of oil and gas? So-so achievement must be admitted. And even if it is produced, then either belongs or a controlling stake in one of the "strategic partners".

you do not understand what you are asking, nor what you are answered.

I will answer on my own (although not specifically addressed to me) - to "think" you need to be ... as they say now "alternatively gifted" For example, accept and defend a theory "flat earth", believe in your own infallibility, call black white and white black, compare thick with soft, emphasize what is profitable and keep silent about what is not profitable, give incomplete quotations, thereby distorting or inverting the meaning. To the topic and not to the topic to apply

here it is))) To make unfounded statements without giving arguments ... well, etc. )))
And by the way about coupons! Have you looked closely at the year? And what preceded this 1991 year in the course? And what kind of people and with whom were they led to this, and from what year are they also not in the know? -

Well, here are the same cards. We look closely at the years.
Or will we keep silent (as usual) in the hope that some lover will tell me "how bad it was for me in a bloody scoop" seeing just the coupons will start nodding to me in ecstasy? "From the pier! Concrete proof." So I perfectly remember WHAT, WHERE, and When it started)))) And I also know that -

And this is after the bloodiest war in history.
and in "blessed" Britain -

And the last cards (for sweets) were canceled only in 1954. And this is given that, unlike the USSR, the Wehrmacht did not go through the territory of Great Britain with a steam roller.
and YES ... here recently - https://topwar.ru/185897-v-shvedskom-izdanii-prizvali-poblagodarit-gorbacheva-za-razval-sovetskogo-sojuza.html something I didn't notice you there))) You can thank the "benefactor"

[Olgovich]

Quote: Region-25.rus

But now, apparently, most of the goods are produced in Russia (or wherever you have) and are not purchased with funds from the sale of oil and gas? So-so achievement must be admitted. And even if it is produced, then either belongs or a controlling stake in one of the "strategic partners".

your regime did not leave PEOPLE to work on the same land: they died out and fled with you.

The people of 1917, young and full of strength, captured by yours, return and everything will be.

Quote: Region-25.rus

And by the way about coupons! Have you looked closely at the year? And what preceded this 1991 year in the course? And what kind of people and with whom were they led to this, and from what year are they also not in the know? -

coupons - since the beginning of 1980 - SAM stood with them in line in Samara (so-called Kubyshev) in 1981- the most "flourishing" of socialism.

And it was not people, but an incapable, failing system that brought it to nothing.

Quote: Region-25.rus

And this is after the bloodiest war in history.

are you- out of your mind?

in the USSR in 1946-47 died of hunger from, 08 to 1,5 MILLION people with mass cannibalism and corpse-eating are Novorossiya, Little Russia and Bessarabia. WHERE was that in England, huh?
And this despite the fact that echelons with bread went through the mortally starving Bessarabia, to save the recent aggressor from starvation Romania, Hungary

And the fact that the largest group of the population of the USSR, the peasants, did NOT have any food cards at all and survived, as who could and could not (many could not) -not in the know?

Quote: Region-25.rus

the Wehrmacht did not walk through the territory of Great Britain with a steam roller.

which Wehrmacht went on a skating rink across the USSR in 1933, which died of hunger several times more than died in the WWII?

Quote: Region-25.rus

I will answer on my own (although not specifically addressed to me)

comrade answers strictly from Monday to Friday and during business hours-working on a salary means Who pays, I wonder?

[Region-25.rus]

your regime did not leave PEOPLE to work on the same land: they died out and fled with you.

those. am i extinct Grandparents died out (by the way, they lived to 90+)

in the USSR in 1946-47 died of hunger from, 08 to 1,5 MILLION people with mass cannibalism and corpse-eating are Novorossiya, Little Russia and Bessarabia. WHERE was that in England, huh?

information from the Ukrainian archives of the SBU?

And the fact that the largest group of the population of the USSR, the peasants, did NOT have any food cards at all and survived, as who could and could not (many could not) -not in the know?

blah blah blah ... infa where? Their eltsyn center?

which Wehrmacht went on a skating rink across the USSR in 1933, which died of hunger several times more than died in the WWII?

how much? and where does the information come from?

comrade answers strictly from Monday to Friday and during working hours, works on a salary meansyes Who pays, I wonder?

and I answer 7 days a week And my salary is hourly. And the employer pays. IT sphere. Well, if you personally cannot work (if you have worked at least a day in life) and be distracted for a couple of minutes by a comment .. well, I can’t help here (and I don’t want ) But others can. And they successfully cope with the work (otherwise they would not have been paid and kicked out) and unsubscribe. And even waste time looking for evidence. What you are apparently not capable of. Apparently this is too difficult. Happenes

[Olgovich]

Quote: Region-25.rus

those. am i extinct Grandparents died out (by the way, they lived to 90+)

you are not. But next to you (and everyone) there should be at least one more person who was not born due to the fact that their potential grandparents died / strangled / died early and could not give birth.

Or do you think that since you were born then everything is in order?

And the fact that MILLIONS of ivans / mash because of the "actions" of your "successful people" were NOT born is already ... not a tragedy?

Quote: Region-25.rus

information from the Ukrainian archives of the SBU?

and you will visit the SCHOOL (just not through and through the false Bolshevik) and learn a lot.

In general, it's shameful to be so ignorant ...
NONE of the competent communists denies it. Moreover, yes, there was bread in the country.

Quote: Region-25.rus

blah blah blah ... infa where? Their eltsyn center?

you don’t even know that ... And what do you know in general, except for funny rotten slogans?

Quote: Region-25.rus

how much? and where does the information come from?

Official documents of Russia. And even well-versed communists also DO NOT deny this, albeit with fewer victims, but still much more than the loss of PMA

Quote: Region-25.rus

and I answer 7 days a week And my salary is hourly. And the employer pays.

I don't care. Why do I need this information?

Quote: Region-25.rus

to be distracted for a couple of minutes by a comment .. well, I can’t help (and don’t want to). But others can. And they successfully cope with the work (otherwise they would not have been paid and kicked out) and unsubscribe. And even waste time looking for evidence. What you are apparently not capable of. Apparently this is too difficult. Happenes

some kind of rambling nonsense ...

What did you want to say?

[Region-25.rus]

some kind of rambling nonsense ...

if it is not given to understand, then it is not given

What did you want to say?

that in your understanding if

comrade answers strictly from Monday to Friday and during working hours, works on a salary meansyes Who pays, I wonder?

It means that if someone, according to your "logic", will answer only from Monday to Friday, then his job is to sit on the site and scribble comments. Level logic - "God" Although -

Do you remember that you were asked and the sequence of messages? Or do you care what to write, just to write?

I don't care. Why do I need this information?

of course do not care))) And again to the fact that you can not sit on the salary for comments. And you can combine your work and writing comments. Is that clearer?

[Olgovich]

Quote: Region-25.rus

if it is not given to understand, then it is not given

so there is NOTHING to understand: you don’t say anything, because you don’t know anything.

Quote: Region-25.rus

means, And you can combine your work and writing comments.

means that I, as an employer, will never hire you, a bum who deceives the employer

Quote: Region-25.rus

Of course you consider yourself a treasure of wisdom?

God forbid, I know less than I would like, yes.

But ELEMENTARY - everyone needs to know, even you.

[Region-25.rus]

In general, it's shameful to be so ignorant

Of course you consider yourself a treasure of wisdom? It's time to grow up and get rid of youthful maximalism)))

[Foul skeptic]

And people always work precisely in order to survive, and only for Tebils such clarifications are required.

Just to remind you the sequence:
# 1) I am writing a message

Quote: A vile skeptic

People fought because the amount of land directly affected whether you could feed yourself. In the modern world, a person does not have such a problem.

# 2) Which you apparently didn’t like, well, since you decided to comment on it

Quote: Olgovich

fought because there were many people who WANTED to work for it, but there was LITTLE land.

If in your last message you yourself admit that "people always work to survive", then why was your phrase # 2 to my # 1? As in the cartoon - Is Baba Yaga against?

the untenable "argument is not accepted, because socialism did not feed ANYONE, but starvation killed tens of millions of people to death in ... in the 20th century and, most importantly, in principle, it could not feed, never, never, ineffective ..

Why isn't it accepted? Has capitalism fed everyone?

Quote: Olgovich

And yes: there are a little less than a BILLION hungry people in the world (UN) -that is "no problem" on your forehead, yes ...

It turns out that it is "never effective". Because all these countries with hungry people are very much built into the capitalist world and are capitalist.

And nowhere in normal developed countries was there such a wild hunger, only you.

It remains for you to explain with what fright you have the USSR of the 30s is a developed country.

Hunger is present in undeveloped countries, yes, but the world is also imperfect and no one has argued otherwise.

Ah, this world is not perfect. Look how it is. And what makes it imperfect?

you have reported problems:
In the modern world, a person does not have such a problem.
.
and it exists precisely because of the lack of land: if, hypothetically, the hungry are given empty fertile land, they will feed themselves.

1) There is no such problem, the world has outgrown subsistence farming for a long time - in the modern world, the modern agro-industrial world complex produces food in excess, therefore, even in the absence of land owned by a person, it allows a person to simply purchase this food. This is what developed countries demonstrate by being importers of food products, not exporters. And do you know who, among others, sells these products to them? The very countries that themselves are experiencing a shortage of them.
2) What is the empty fertile land in the "world hunger belt"? You at least a little bit your fantasies with the real situation in the world correlate.
3) The theory of dependent development will explain to you why the hungry will not disappear, regardless of whether they receive empty fertile land or not.

The source is given, the stated facts are given there, and your unwillingness to read, know and admit the complete bankruptcy of your regime is not interesting even once.

1) I have not only read all these sources, but I also checked and analyzed written... And that is why I have every right to speak about the "sources".
2) Here is one of these "facts" from you:

Abandoned at the same time TENS OF MILLION hectares of agricultural land

We look in the collections "National Economy of the USSR" tables with the distribution of farmland
1960 - 515,4 million hectares
1965 - 542,8 million hectares
1970 - 545,8 million hectares
1975 - 548,8 million hectares
1980 - 553,6 million hectares
1985 - 558,4 million hectares
1990 - 557,3 million hectares
Therefore, they ask you to confirm your words, indicating not only the source, but also the page in the source. To understand whether you lied or the source and what the source meant at all. In the meantime, you have not confirmed any of the three statements that you were asked to confirm with an indication of the page in the source. Given that the discrepancy in one of the three is obvious.

I want one and have said it many times

Why don't you want

I will demonstrate to you the "quality" of this monograph on a couple of the simplest examples from it? And then I will arrange an educational program, why was this monograph ever published and how is this connected with the date of its appearance?

?
Do you want to know more? Are you satisfied with the achieved level?

Yeah, there was an all-Union conspiracy of sabotage, but without traces in the form of orders, reports, receipts, executors and witnesses.

Sabotage orders? Sabotage receipts from perpetrators? Does it happen?

And there are minutes of meetings of conspirators about a conspiracy? Will you show at least one example of such a protocol on those conspiracies, the reality of which will not cause you any doubts? To be able to understand that such a thing can exist in the real world, and not in your invented one?

If we put aside the lyrics, then a person who then lived and saw what was happening with his own eyes will not say that the USSR was not pushed to disintegration. All in all, it was necessary to give an opportunity for the withdrawal of capital from the country, which was done by the law on cooperation. "Apparently the KGB, the Ministry of Internal Affairs, etc. promised not to jail, not to investigate" - how old are you? Everyone who was an adult in 1990 and read newspapers knows about the ANT case.
And the individuals who were involved in this did not hesitate to openly speak about it personally after the collapse. At least Korotich in an interview with the BBC about the reaction to Andreeva's letter:

It was such a mini-putsch, rather poorly organized, but rather a trial balloon: to check the reaction of Gorbachev, who sometimes behaved in such a way that even his inner circle did not understand who he was with, and generally to see what would happen.
The mechanism was completely clear to me, since I myself have acted as such a trial balloon more than once, only from the opposite side.

Do you need to explain who the opposite side is?
More from the same interview

Alexander Nikolayevich Yakovlev called me several times and said: Mikhail Sergeyevich and I are going to leave Moscow at the same time, disappear and you for a week, otherwise Ligachev will hold a decision on your dismissal at the Central Committee secretariat and nothing can be done.

And you continue to insert pictures with coupons of 1991. There is no mind for anything else.

[Region-25.rus]

They Died already under Soviet rule and because of it

Yes, yes .. so they were dying, they were dying right out of their pants. Only for some reason the birth rate grew. And without any "come in large numbers". And now they don't know how to make people give birth. Either they offer some funny handouts, or they launch advertisements. But something doesn't work.

and you will see the village bloom.

saw. Thistles blossomed in the destroyed buildings of the MTS and cowsheds.

If you were still with young people running away from the village

and with whom else in 1991 did we fight at discos because of girls during a labor semester at a state farm? And, apparently, they were specially brought from another city for extras! Well then it's clear))))

But they had fled from there before.

passionarity has not yet been canceled
Of course, some of them went to the city to enter all sorts of educational institutions. Someone who studied something agricultural or livestock was returning. And I will reveal a terrible secret - they also run from smaller cities to larger cities. And so all over the world and at all times and not "only in THIS country"

in just 30 years by 1989 you have ALREADY destroyed more than half of the settlements in Russia (more than 160 thousand)

You .... have you confused the dates? Quicker

over 30 years by 2021

Or, by the 89th was destroyed, but only in 2021 - Shoigu decided to "build cities"? Well, for those who like to pull the facts out of context and distort the facts, this is the norm!

[Olgovich]

Quote: Region-25.rus

Yes, yes .. so they were dying, they were dying right out of their pants. Just for some reason fertility grew

all the time FALLING in front of you, ignoramus, you don't even know that.

Quote: Region-25.rus

And now they don't know how to make people give birth

you have brought up a whole ABORT CULTURE for 70 years, 200 abortions were produced in the USSR, this is a WORLD leader, yours were killed in the womb in the USSR alone in the 000s more than in all countries of the world combined

Quote: Region-25.rus

They offer some funny handouts,

funny handouts were in the ussr - no capital swearing and was not foreseen

Quote: Region-25.rus

saw. Thistles blossomed in the destroyed buildings of the MTS and cowsheds.

So where to get PEOPLE? YOU squeezed EVERYONE out of the village, LEADED OUT to work, made you drink.

Quote: Region-25.rus

and with whom else in 1991 did we fight at discos because of girls during a labor semester at a state farm? And, apparently, they were specially brought from another city for extras! Well then it's clear))))

Again:

In just 20 years from 1959 to 1979, the rural population of Russia was reduced by FORTY-FOUR percent - SOMEONE began neither to live in the vast expanses of Russia, nor to work, the old people remained, which became extinct in the 90s

Quote: Region-25.rus

Of course, some of them went to the city to enter all sorts of educational institutions. Someone who studied something agricultural or livestock was returning. And I will reveal a terrible secret - they also run from smaller cities to larger cities. And so all over the world and at all times and not "only in THIS country"

practically NOBODY returned.

And yes, only in YOUR mode, MORE THAN HALF of settlements in the country disappeared (160 thousand!)There is nothing like this ANYWHERE in the world.

Quote: Region-25.rus

You .... have you confused the dates? Quicker
over 30 years by 2021

and you read at least something so as not to look so funny, ridiculous and pum
disgrace ...

Quote: Region-25.rus

Or, by the 89th was destroyed, but only in 2021 - Shoigu decided to "build cities"? Well, for those who like to pull the facts out of context and distort the facts, this is the norm!

to school, for knowledge, march!

[Region-25.rus]

funny handouts were in the ussr - no capital swearing and was not foreseen

Only families had 2-3 children. Like my relatives. Now it's good if one

all the time FALLING in front of you, ignoramus, you don't even know that

In my yard (56 apartments) there was a mob of up to 30 children that could jump in garages and play football, in "Cossack robbers" of both sexes. Apart from the little things in the stroller. And now ... now the yard is empty. And the city had up to 250K population. After the well-known reforms, 150 thousand. And this is with the Chinese and "come in large numbers" from Asian countries.

And yes, only under YOUR regime, MORE THAN HALF of settlements in the country (160 thousand!) Have disappeared, ANYWHERE else in the world does not.

I agree, they disappeared in YOUR mode. With MY I saw settlements, with YOUR I don't see them. And I ran through different settlements

and you read at least something

for example Solzhenitsyn? Well, I read it in due time. And I understand people like you

so as not to look so funny, ridiculous and pimp

looking in whose eyes.

to school, for knowledge, march!

into a modern one? Fortunately, it's a little late. But you have apparently absorbed all the modern school "knowledge".

[Trapperxnumx]

Quote: Region-25.rus

And now ... now the yard is empty.

Everyone is online in their computers)
In general, we have a lot of kids in our yard, at school every year there are 7-8 first grades)))) (a city with 500 thousand inhabitants)

[Region-25.rus]

I talked about my city. It's good if 120 thousand are left out of 250. There are also many children in St. Petersburg (where I have been for the last six years). But this is not the WHOLE country

[skipper83]

I have three children. The interlocutor rightly said that you can't kick them out into the street now, because everyone is online. And the schools are overcrowded, although there are a lot of visitors from Central Asia, 3-4 children in a group in the garden or in the kindergarten.

[Region-25.rus]

though there are a lot of newcomers

and why? Is it not partly (precisely partly) because your hands are not enough? Or does the fact that you have three children cancels out the catastrophic population decline?

[skipper83]

I’m talking about empty yards, and you’re talking about working hands.

[Region-25.rus]

closed more than 40 thousand from schools, thousands of recreation centers and medical centers,

I agree. Only in 1991, in my city alone, there were 8 or 9 houses of culture and cinemas. Remaining for 2021 .... not a single one. Weird.

[skipper83]

Dkm, dks. Another one on Gagarin. Only the DKr was closed. They already have different names, but the essence remains. Why are you all the time pouring mud on the find?

[Region-25.rus]

Why are you all the time pouring mud on the find?

facts - is it muddying? Maybe the fact that all the berths are littered with coal? The fact that there are much fewer people on the streets than even in the 2s? The fact that there are fifteen old trawlers left in BAMR? That there were Schwejka factories in the buildings is the same. Instead of the stadium, there is also the Primorets market. Is there a lot of things being repaired at NSRZ? Is the PSRZ alive? I only saw coal on the berths XNUMX years ago.

[skipper83]

Well, I gave you the facts, where you are, to put it mildly, dissembling. I do not argue that the find is not the center of civilization, but you are slightly attracted by your arguments, including about Milogradov's milk and bread factory. All this is there and functions. It's just that you're out of luck that I'm from a find, and much of what you wrote is not true.

[Region-25.rus]

It's just that you're out of luck that I'm from a find

Ie ... am I talking here with a specialist? And so stupid that I write nonsense in the firm belief that there is no Internet in Nakhodka and no one reads this site?)))) Young man. You probably did not know the Find at the best of times. If a salary of 30 thousand is cool. And used Lexus is an indicator. About

city ​​of sailors-fishermen

Where? I already wrote about the BAMR, the PMP is probably still holding on. But where do these tankers work? Look at the roadstead (if you know what it is) when you pass over the trade port. Even in 90-2000 there was no overcrowding. What is there now? "Three cripples" hang out in the first and third districts

[skipper83]

I am aware of what a raid is, as I am writing to you from a former PMPV tanker. Pmp doesn’t exist anymore, it was practically bought by SCF, but there are other companies. There is Google, marine traffic, look what is going on in the raid. It happens that you drift for several days under the find, waiting for a place. You are cunning again.

[Region-25.rus]

You are cunning again.

I say what I saw in 2019 personally. Sense me to dissemble ??? And quoting - in the panel, at the top of the window, the rightmost button (in the form of quotes), press it, symbols appear in the text field, paste the text copied into the clipboard between them. And the post will be highlighted in a special way

[skipper83]

Ie ... am I talking here with a specialist? And so stupid that I write nonsense in the firm belief that there is no Internet in Nakhodka and no one reads this site?)
But I brought your arguments, which do not correspond to reality, without entering into your dispute with opponents on political issues.
Look at the roadstead (if you know what it is) when you pass over the trade port. Even in 90-2000 there was no overcrowding. What is there now? "Three cripples" hang out in the first and third districts
A loaded Afromax tanker leaves Kozmino every day.

[Region-25.rus]

you are dissembling, to put it mildly

why? I just use the information that I owned directly until 2015 (it is unlikely that something has radically changed for the better) And so, information comes from friends from time to time

[Region-25.rus]

including about Milogradovskoe milk and bread factory

I will not argue! But I remember very well that they brought bread from Vladivostok. And about Milogradovo ... I remember there for a while everything died out. (I had close acquaintances from there, and I myself was in 94) Only all my friends who are in Nakhodka, who are nearby (Livadia). Well, if you restore and run - again, only FOR both hands

[skipper83]

The NSRZ and the PSRZ are still breathing, but the Zvezda was built next to it and is being moved now. But the competition of Chinese factories is inevitable. Bamr, your truth, is more dead than alive. Darkin is there, it seems, is the owner now. But other dalrybflot companies came along and a new fishing company with a very solid fleet and budget. Everything changes, and that which is not competitive goes down in history.

[Region-25.rus]

near the star was built

in Bolshoy Kamen. Well, yes, it takes an hour and a half to cut on the bus. And more from the track. And they did not build it, but it was (or rather the Zvezda plant was). Completed and expanded.

dalrybflot

Which one is from Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky?

new fishing company

It's strange that it has been registered since 2012, but I didn't know At that time, I was not yet very much detached from the nautical theme, as it were. There were many acquaintances of former colleagues.

[Region-25.rus]

On my last visit, even "Rus" was already closed. Or did my sister lie to me?
In general, it meant (in the old fashioned way) that there are movies, there are circles and so on. Is it all there?

[skipper83]

Russia is closed. But the newest cinema with 5 or 6 cinemas was opened in the shopping center. Old Russia is no longer competitive. Now they will open something similar in the swamp, they also promise several cinemas.

[Region-25.rus]

also promise several cinemas

all this is of course good. Cinema halls, "The Avengers" and "Kakhi" all sorts of play. The only question is - do the people have where to work? And how much is paid for those jobs?

[skipper83]

There are in other places development and other sections. Not on such a scale as in Vladivostok, of course. My son goes to hockey, for example, and the other goes swimming.

[Region-25.rus]

st in other places of development and other sections

well. ! Hoping for the best "God grant" as they say

[skipper83]

Well, again, not true. If you come or ask your friends, or take a look at Google. There are huge fields and farms in the golden valley.

[Region-25.rus]

In the golden valley

I haven't been for a long time. Only passing through. well if got better then only RAD

You will arrive

was two years (or a little more) back at home. Sad to be honest. I don’t know, maybe you have nothing to compare with, but I lived in Nakhodka for 40 years. And I remember a lot.

[skipper83]

I have seen the whole world, believe me, I have something to compare. Although if at the end of the 80s they graduated from school, then I only went to it in 89.

[Region-25.rus]

then I just went to it in '89

I graduated in 91. No. 17. The whole world is not the whole world, but I also ran around large foreign cities. Before Peter, I lived in Vladik for 2 years, even coming from there I saw a strong difference (not for the better, to be honest)

[Region-25.rus]

In the same way, central Russia is bent over the anti-Sovietism of the last decades.

Why is there a central one? I drove the Sapsan several times, "From St. Petersburg to Moscow." Even at its speed, one can see through the window that in places there is total "hell and Israel" (((

[skipper83]

How is this find bent? No matter how you look on the roads, some Lexus and jeeps drive. The city of sailors and the people live here are not poor.

[Region-25.rus]

a kind of sailors and the people live here are not poor

it’s the people who are knocking down ... I’ve dumped. For there is no work for me. Jeeps and Lexuses from the salon? Not on credit? Or else since that time they were taken from Japan. I drove, or rather drove "passengers". And you don't need to tell me about it

[Sahalinets]

It only gets worse. I'm talking about Sakhalin. The population is constantly decreasing, there is really no work anywhere except Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk. But there are a lot of Kyrgyz people in earnings.
There was a moment when it seemed that the island would rise. When the local budget finally began to receive money from oil and gas projects. But it lasted only three years, then Moscow simply took away the money and now the region is subsidized. And Putin's satraps are finishing her off.

[Korsar4]

Migration across Sakhalinsk: from the north to Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk. From Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk - to the Krasnodar Territory.

[Uncle lee]

Quote from Korsar4

from the north to Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk

So it is ... Everyone gathered in the South, and whoever could - moved to the mainland ...

[Uncle lee]

Quote: Sahalinets

the satraps finish her off.

The forest was cut down, the pink salmon cut out! Coal, coal is not sold to residents - all to our partners! Oil and gas on LNG and again to partners! Everything for sale what's left ...

[Korsar4]

The Japanese began to cut down the forest. Now 10-15 percent of the allowable cut is used.
And in Nogliki there is furniture from the Novgorod region.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote from Uncle Lee

Coal, coal is not sold to residents - all to our partners! Oil and gas on LNG and again to partners! Everything for sale what's left ...

In "beautiful Russia, which we have lost" it has already happened, "we will not finish eating, but we will take it out."))) I suppose it will end the same way.

[Uncle lee]

https://sakhalin.info/news/210622/
It's about coal ...

[DymOk_v_dYmke]

Quote: Sahalinets

Moscow simply took away the money and now the region is subsidized.

It is enough to re-register the central office of a successful company in the MSC. - and the area
where it really works will fall into subsidized ones.
It will be so without changes in the legislation.
=.> think for whom to vote !.

[kig]

Quote: Lech from Android.

It is unlikely that now something has changed for the better in this regard.

Why guess when there are statistics

[ViacheslavS]

Surely there must be reasons why there are very few people, I would assume that primarily climatic. If you look at similar territories in Canada and the United States (Alaska), then the population density there is about the same.

[Comrade]

The resources of Russia and Japan were then incomparable, so if the revolution of 1905 did not happen, Russia could well "put the squeeze" on Japan, whose economic situation, despite the brilliant victories won, was deplorable by the end of the war.
The Japanese prepared and waged the war mainly on credit; they were actually forced by American creditors to conclude the Portsmouth Peace Treaty, threatening, if they did not curb their appetites and agree with Russia, to stop giving them money.
Thus, the tactics of waging a war with Japan of attrition ("while the fat one loses weight, the thin one dies") could well bear fruit in 1906-1907.

[Alex_1973]

Comrade
The resources of Russia and Japan were then incomparable, so if the revolution of 1905 did not happen, Russia could well "put the squeeze" on Japan

Well, yes, well, yes, of course the revolution is to blame for everything ... Excuse me, do you know the history of Russia well? By the time the unrest began, the Republic of Ingushetia and specifically the government of the non-king-rag pumped everything that could be pumped, Port Arthur surrendered ineptly and ingloriously, Kuropatkin's army did nothing but surrender one line after another. The revolution is probably also to blame for this? And how did the revolution begin by itself? The evil "Bolsheviks" started it? Or maybe this is still the result of the tsarist policy?
That's what is called from a sore head to a healthy one.

[smaug78]

The revolution has nothing to do with it, almost everything bad for Russia happened before it ...

[Daniil Konovalenko]

The resources of Russia and Japan were then incomparable, so if the revolution of 1905 did not happen, Russia could well "put the squeeze" on Japan,

Russian-Japanese War January 27 (February 9) 1904 - August 23 (September 5) 1905) The Revolution of 1905, or the First Russian Revolution, is the name of the events that took place from January 22, 1905 to June 1907 in the Russian Empire. When the revolution began, the war had been going on for a whole year, and during this year all the significant events of the Russian-Japanese war had already taken place.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Comrade

and the conclusion of the Portsmouth Peace Treaty was actually forced by American creditors, threatening, if they did not curb their appetites and agree with Russia, to stop giving them money.

The Japanese Empire, by the time the treaty was signed, was completely depleted by both resources and finances, and to continue the war, the United States and other creditors did not dare to invest huge amounts of money, because if they lost (and it should have happened) they would have lost the entire invested project - "Japan ".

[strannik1985]

Japanese Empire

Well, Russia, thanks to the peculiarities of its financial policy, was on the verge of exhaustion. Gold standard - you can't just take and print money, you had to get gold for the required amount. They mined little of their own gold, little profit from trade, plus thezavration - the war sucked out gold like a vacuum cleaner.

[Kote Pan Kokhanka]

Quote: Comrade

The tactics of waging a war of attrition with Japan ("while the fat one loses weight, the thin one dies") could well bear fruit in 1906-1907.

There was not enough small - political will and understanding of the aspirations of their subjects on the part of those in power. The Russia of Nicholas II overstrained, the first time in the Russian-Japanese, the second time in the First World War. Russia could win in both, only in one case - if the lower classes saw that the upper classes were also ready to bear hardships and hardships. Otherwise, no war of attrition will end in victory.
Regards, Vlad!

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Kote pane Kohanka

The Russia of Nicholas II overstrained, the first time in the Russian-Japanese, the second time in the First World War.

"Friends" of the West from the United States, hurried in advance and created a little dirty trick in 1905 and 1917. So Nicholas overstrained himself, but others in 1917 did not pass this fate, and the Sultan and the Kaiser with the Habsburgs, everyone was boldly like a tsunami.

[vladcub]

Namesake, greetings. I have a slightly different opinion about the RYAV.
If instead of Kuropatkin, be a more strong-willed commander, and even grandmother said in two ways how it would have ended. Kuropatkin was good only for supporting roles. You can read about this in Denikin's work: "The Way of the Russian Officer."
In WWI, at least in the beginning, there was a strong-willed commander V.K. Nikolai Nikolaevich. At least Oleinev thought so

[Senior seaman]

Quote: vladcub

In WWI, at least in the beginning, there was a strong-willed commander V.K. Nikolai Nikolaevich

In RYAV, Nick Nick technically refused the role of commander-in-chief ...

[vladcub]

Ivan, "sailor" according to Ignatiev, immediately after the start of the RYA, Kuropatkin was appointed commander.

[Senior seaman]

Now I can't find a better source, but

At the beginning of the Russo-Japanese War of 1904-1905, he refused to take part in it, as he did not get along with the governor of Russia in the Far East, Admiral E. I. Alekseev, who was appointed to this position by the emperor.

https://gwar.mil.ru/heroes/commander2400299/
I read somewhere that VK refused, saying that "a lot of honor to macaques."

[vladcub]

Actually, with Alekseev, an interesting situation turned out: the illegitimate son of Alexander and, naturally, Nikolai Nikolaevich's higher, or an equal?
Still, I am more inclined to believe Ignatiev: 1) Kuropatkin was appointed in his presence; 2) he wrote the book in the 40s and it would be more profitable for him to throw another “stone” into the “august” family

[Senior seaman]

Quote: vladcub

Actually, with Alekseev, an interesting situation turned out: the illegitimate son of Alexander and, naturally, Nikolai Nikolaevich's higher, or an equal?

This is gossip. But even so, the legitimate grand duke is always higher in rank than a bastard.
You need to understand one thing, Alexander III did not treat papa's amorous adventures too well and did not encourage bastards.

Quote: vladcub

Still, I am more inclined to believe Ignatiev:

His words do not contradict at all. At first he offered VK, he refused, they began to look for the next one. With the difference that a simple general can be ordered.

At that time, Kuropatkin's authority in the higher spheres was so great that various leaders personally begged Nicholas II to appoint him as commander. A.A. Kireev, who is well-known to the higher spheres of the capital, anxiously wrote in his diary at the end of January: “There are vague rumors in the city that as if the Grand Duke Nikolai Nikolaevich was appointed commander-in-chief! After all, this is a laughing matter for the chickens! How can you leave our only combat general, Kuropatkin, in St. Petersburg! " Elsewhere Kireev calls Kuropatkin "not only the best, but also the only suitable person for such a war."

[vladcub]

1) who is Kireev?
2) I read about Alekseev at Ignatiev's, and he moved in high society, and knew what he was talking about.
3) Oleinev positively assessed V.K .. I also tried to argue with him.
However, you yourself can find Oleinev's publications and his arguments

[Senior seaman]

Quote: vladcub

who is Kireev?

adjutant to Grand Duke Konstantin Nikolaevich, cavalry general, Slavophile, publicist.

Quote: vladcub

and he revolved in high society, and knew what he was talking about.

Why don't they gossip?

Quote: vladcub

Oleinev positively assessed V.K.

And to your health! However. "Crafty" (nickname Nick Nick Jr.) is not the most mediocre of this family.

[vladcub]

Fig knows what kind of relationship V.K. had, maybe they loved each other like a dog stick? And the adjutant usually ass a parrot near the boss

[The leader of the Redskins]

I don't quite agree with the author:
Here he declares that we won at Halkin Gol even before the outbreak of hostilities.
Why did it happen? The beginning was by no means victorious. And logistics was one of the weak links. Only after the change of command did it take on an acceptable form, and then - the tankers burned more gasoline than they brought in. In the context of a local conflict, this turned out to be acceptable.

[Pashhenko Nikolay]

Now you can just remember the roads to the Kaliningrad region. Which actually do not exist.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Pashhenko Nikolay

Now you can just remember the roads to the Kaliningrad region. Which actually do not exist.

But with the “Bavarian corporal” there were roads, and even some, especially the Berlin-Königsberg highway.

[smaug78]

Author, why put a shadow on the fence, be smart about logistics? The carrying capacity of the railway in 1904 is known, the possibilities of withdrawing troops from the western borders of the Republic of Ingushetia are minimal, in contrast to the USSR. Another pseudo-historical article.

[Daniil Konovalenko]

And it struck. In 1938, Khasan, where a small border conflict nevertheless occurred, and Khalkhin Gol in 1939. And again - the victory and the defeat were determined by the industry and logistics.

When Khasan burst out, and Blucher was removed from office, and later shot, General Apanasenko, who replaced him, found that the logistics were simply awful and began to rectify the situation.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Daniil Konovalenko

When Khasan burst out, and Blucher was removed from office, and later shot, General Apanasenko, who replaced him

Blucher considered himself "the king of the DCK", but did nothing since 1922, for which he suffered, but he killed many people. We in Transbaikalia remembered this for a long time.

[vladcub]

Actually, there is a lot of turbidity with Blucher. He is a talented commander of the GV - a fact. He had "sins" - also a fact

[vladcub]

"later shot", VK Blucher died in the internal prison of the NKVD.
Shot: his brother and ex-wives

[Daniil Konovalenko]

VK Blucher died in the internal prison of the NKVD.

Oh, yes you are right ... apparently from covid-37

[tihonmarine]

Quote: vladcub

"later shot", VK Blucher died in the internal prison of the NKVD.
Shot: his brother and ex-wives

He did a lot, even if the wives were liquidated.

[Keer]

Quote: vladcub
"later shot", VK Blucher died in the internal prison of the NKVD.
Shot: his brother and ex-wives

He did a lot, even if the wives were liquidated.

them for their own sins - two ex-wives and a brother for helping to spy for execution, and their wife, acting, because she knew (but did not spy herself) by the deadline. So it is customary for spies - if someone from your family is with you and does not spy, then you must be aware of it.

[vladcub]

I don’t know about the first wife. The second Kolchugina: she studied at the military institute of communications, which means she was a spy, after the divorce she maintained friendly relations with V.K .. He periodically left various papers with her, and then said that she kept, was aware of
Probably, he deliberately slandered her in order to get his last wife out of the blow

[Undecim]

Conversely, disrupted logistics with the mother country doomed the Japanese troops to defeat, despite any possible measures.

The author has obviously never heard of such a state as Manchukuo with its industry, an area of ​​two and a half France and a population of 50 people, therefore he believes that the Kwantung Army was supplied from the metropolis.
For example, in the USSR in 1943, 5,6 million tons of pig iron were smelted, then in Manchukuo, one Anshan metallurgical plant produced 1,3 million tons.

[vladcub]

Vic. Nick, good afternoon. The author of Manzhou Ot, in figs is not necessary. It destroys his entire canvas

[Undecim]

Its canvas cannot be destroyed, because what does not exist cannot be destroyed.

[Senior seaman]

Quote: Undecim

The author has obviously never heard of such a state as Manchukuo with its industry, an area of ​​two and a half France and a population of 50 people, therefore he believes that the Kwantung Army was supplied from the metropolis.

The author did not hear anything about Manchuria, otherwise he would not have written that

The rest is battles, arrows on maps and everything else - from the evil one, taking into account the fact that even the food had to be brought from European Russia.

But nothing like that! Both food and fodder were purchased locally, which is why many regimental commanders became seriously enriched during the war.
Manchuria, especially its southern part, is a very rich, fertile and densely populated region.

[Undecim]

The author has not heard anything about Manchuria at all

Yes, the author, in fact, and in general about the events about which he writes, has the most vague idea, therefore the article is some pressing of the hunchback against the wall. True, judging by the downsides, there is a contingent who likes the work of the next site's history-monger.

[Senior seaman]

Quote: Undecim

there is a contingent who likes the work of the next site's history-bruiser.

Or has "warm" feelings for the commentator :)))

[Undecim]

And there is such a reason.

Envious people will look at anything
Will raise eternally barking;
And you yourself go your way:
Poop and lag behind.

By the way, taking advantage of the moment I want to ask - how are your creative successes, is there anything to read?

[Senior seaman]

Quote: Undecim

is there anything to read?

https://author.today/u/ivan06091973

[vladcub]

"Without a normal fleet," the Pacific Fleet by 1945 consisted of: 78 submarines, 1500 combat aircraft, 1 leader "Tbilisi", 10 destroyers and torpedo boats, 17 (according to other sources, 29) patrol boats, mainly the newest "Rivera", 50 minesweepers. There are more than enough forces to conduct and support amphibious operations

[Catfish]

Glory, hello.
Well, if you consider that by the 45th year the remnants of the Japanese fleet, due to the complete air supremacy of enemy aviation, and did not stick their nose out of the bases, then, of course, "There are more than enough forces to conduct and support landing operations."

[Region-25.rus]

that by the 45th year the remnants of the Japanese fleet, due to the complete air supremacy of enemy aviation, did not stick out their nose from the bases,

there was also a strong tension with fuel. Think of the Yamato and its one-way bunkering, where it had to run aground and hammer out of its 460mm until he lost consciousness.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: vladcub

By 1945, the Pacific Fleet consisted of: 78 submarines, 1500 combat aircraft, 1 leader "Tbilisi", 10 destroyers and torpedo boats, 17 (according to other sources, 29) patrol boats, mainly the newest "Rivera", 50 minesweepers. There are more than enough forces to conduct and support amphibious operations

But these forces were mostly on paper. Of the two cruisers listed in the Pacific Fleet, both were under repair. The submarines were only partially combat-ready, and the chaos in the submarine was such that one of the submarines (Shch-139) was blown up by the commander of the BCH-3 who served on it.
The Pacific Fleet spent the entire war in the position of a poor relative, sending the best personnel and ships to the warring fleets. So it’s not surprising that the fleet commander decided to keep the fleet at the bases.

[Region-25.rus]

sending the best personnel and ships to the warring fleets.

One of them is a monument in Vladivostok

[vladcub]

I knew about the cruiser, but I did not know about the submarine.
Probably, that explosion of that boat was attributed to: "the intrigues of enemies" - better than admitting a mess

[Alexey RA]

Quote: vladcub

Probably, that explosion of that boat was attributed to: "the intrigues of enemies" - better than admitting a mess

There was also a mess at the Pacific Fleet. One explosion of torpedo charging compartments on Shch-138 is worth a lot.
Yes, and Sch-139 before the explosion, too, "distinguished itself" more than once:

While in the next dock repair in December, Pridatko, despite the demands of the commander of the warhead-1 senior lieutenant Cheremisin about a thorough check of the acoustic equipment installed by Svyazmortrest, did not provide such a thorough check of the installation, hurrying to leave for his family in the Rakushka Bay. Subsequently, it turned out that Svyazmortrest had installed faulty acoustic equipment, and the acoustics' readings were incorrect, which was one of the reasons for the collision of a submarine with a boat during an exercise in 1944.
In March 1944, through the fault of Pridatko, there was a collision with the MO boat, as a result of which the boat and the boat were out of order for a long time, and the material damage to the state was determined in the amount of 100 rubles.

On December 2, 1944, on a submerged ship, as a result of a short circuit due to insulation failure, a fire broke out in the battery compartment, which could lead to the death of the ship, only due to the fact that the fire was quickly detected and eliminated, the loss of the ship was prevented. During the investigation of this fact, it was established that the insulation failure occurred as a result of the battery batteries being poorly fixed, loose, the square with the insulating rubber touched the battery case. Prydatko, as the commander, knowing about this, did not take measures to eliminate it. The outbreak of the fire was also facilitated by the systematic leak of diesel fuel from the pipelines in the area of ​​the 3rd compartment. To eliminate the leak, 144 sq. see plantar skin. Addendum, despite repeated requests from the boat's electricians, he did not take any measures to eliminate this serious malfunction during the year. They went out to sea with a faulty pipeline system, hanging a can of canned meat at the site of a diesel fuel leak. Pridatko hid the case of the fire from the command, did not submit an extraordinary report on the emergency.
Pryadatko at the investigation on this issue showed: "I did not present an extraordinary report, so as not to show a sticky case of an emergency on the boat and the battalion."

[Alexey RA]

But the explosion at Shch-139 was deliberate. This was established after examining the lifted submarine and according to the results of the experiments carried out.
Inspection:

An internal examination of the sunken compartments 5-7 and the subsequent disassembly of the explosion site revealed that 23 explosive cartridges No. 3, which were in a standard box, under the 6th torpedo tube, and 4 oxygen cylinders, located between the indicated box and the left side, had exploded ... Located in the 7th compartment, but stored separately, in the locker of one of the Red Navy men (Morozov), 2 explosive cartridges No. 3 and 10 pieces of torpedo ignition nozzles did not detonate and were found after the explosion.

The center of the explosion is located under the left torpedo tube at a distance of 0,5–0,7 meters from the side and about 2–2,5 m from the forward bulkhead of the aft trim tank; in the regular place of storage of the box with demolition cartridges No. 3.

Experiments

Detonation of explosive cartridges from the explosion of oxygen cylinders is impossible
Explosive cartridges exclude the possibility of self-explosion, since this is explained by the properties of TNT and has not been observed in practice.
To confirm the above, the commission performed the following experiments:
but. Etching oxygen for 20 minutes on tow, abundantly moistened with oil. The balloon did not ignite or explode.
b. Explosion of cartridge No. 3 with an oxygen cylinder placed on it. At the same time, two cartridges No. 15 were placed to the side of it at a distance of 45 cm and on the other side at a distance of 3 cm. detonated, which indicates the impossibility of detonating explosive cartridges from the explosion of oxygen cylinders located in the immediate vicinity. <..>
d. Secondary detonation of cartridge No. 3 with an attached oxygen cylinder led to the explosion of the latter.

And the conclusion of the commission was only one - the deliberate undermining of the submarine.

CONCLUSIONS:
The only plausible proposal, confirmed by the entire course of events and the situation on the ship, is that the explosion of 3 explosive cartridges No. 23, stored in a special box, occurred with the help of a primary detonator specially designed for this purpose, in this case a fuse with a long fuse cord (DBSh) inserted into the explosive cartridge and set on fire immediately before the explosion, which is confirmed by the fact of the loss of the subversive cartridge No. 2 received on the ship and fuse from the DBSh, which has not been found until now.
The explosion on the Shch-139 submarine is not an accident or the result of negligence, but is a deliberate act.

[vladcub]

Where can I read more about this?

[Alexey RA]

Quote: vladcub

Where can I read more about this?

https://secrethistory.su/931-tragediya-sch-139.html

[Old Orc]

If Kuropatkin instead of building Temples at every part. He built warehouses for supplies. And if he assessed the Japanese army by the level of weapons and not by the number of priests for the number of soldiers. maybe it wouldn't have been that bad.

[vladcub]

Orc, for the sake of truth: NOBODY built temples in Manchuria.
By the beginning of the RJAV, little was known about Japan in the capital. Reread Ignatiev: "Fifty years in the ranks", what did RI know about Japan? In general, Japan was a semi-closed country.
So the regimental priests are not in business here.
By the way, there is a known case when a priest led a soldier to attack.

[lodochnik2000]

In general, Japan was a semi-closed country.

... and the Russian navy had a permanent winter stay in Nagasaki, but that doesn't matter.
8)))
https://cyberleninka.ru/article/n/russkiy-voenno-morskoy-lazaret-v-nagasaki-18581906-gg-istoricheskiy-ocherk-po-rossiyskim-istochnikam/viewer
-----------------------------------------------
before the war there was a funny story with military attachés (then it was called a "military agent"):
- a military agent reports to St. Petersburg that the Japanese are increasing the number and training of the army
he is withdrawn
(...)
as a result, the fourth in a row began to report on "a handful of macaques"
- "Well, finally, a normal person. Otherwise they sent some science fiction writers to Tokyo!"
8))

[vladcub]

Ignatiev has nothing about this.
For the sake of truth, in the Soviet Union there were practically no such materials in print.
I somehow 'in the old fashioned way: I recognized printed sources, but on the Internet as "everything is in Greece" (c)

[Ryazan87]

The Japanese a priori seized the sea in the first weeks of the war

1.) If you allow yourself to be caught with your pants down on an open roadstead, with the absolute obviousness of the imminent start of hostilities;
2.) If you knowingly refuse all active actions, inventing a million reasons according to the glorious tradition and preparing a "heroic" self-drowning;
3) If you set up an "armed reserve" and don't give a damn about combat training;
then yes, a priori. Dreadnoughts wouldn't help.

your way of delivery - Tsushima Strait

Even the Japanese side of the sea was much longer: the 1st Army landed in Chemulpo (Incheon) and Tsinampo (Nampo), the 2nd Army, taking advantage of the complete impotence of the Russian fleet, they landed at Biziwo, right on the Liaodong Peninsula.

the Japanese could bring everything needed in the shortest possible time

To Korean ports - yes. Then horse-drawn transport and torment with the railways (they even tried to harness the Chinese). By the way, the army tried to do at least something on the communications of the Japanese, which, given the weakness of the Japanese cavalry, could give much more, but "too little and too late." And it is not for the artilleryman Mishchenko to lead the cavalry into battle.

But by that time the fleet was gone, and there was no point.

So "dad" Linevich thought so. It was less necessary to philosophize, it was worth attacking and crushing the Japanese land army. Then we would have won the war. True, in order to accomplish this, one really needed someone like Zhukov and life-giving executions in some (alas, not homeopathic) doses.

In 1938, Hassan, where a small border conflict nevertheless occurred

It was difficult and rather unfortunate for the USSR.
As for Khalkhin-Gol - the author may be curious to see where Khalkhin-Gol is and where, say, Mukden. And you know, the scale is a little different - the entire Soviet grouping - less than 60 thousand people, the Russian army under the same Mukden - 280 thousand people.

and was ready to defend the coast without a fleet - that is, to complete the task that in 1904 they could not complete with the presence of ships

1. The coastline is an order of magnitude smaller;
2. After December 7, 1941 - the landing of the Japanese on the Soviet coast from the category of "spherical horse in a vacuum".

Moreover, not having a normal fleet, we carried out a number of landing operations,

- on amphibious ships kindly provided by the Americans. And so it was carried out that it was only necessary to be baptized, that they did not arrange a landing on some Hokkaido.

[Senior seaman]

Quote: Ryazanets87

And it is not for the artilleryman Mishchenko to lead the cavalry into battle.

Well, it’s you in vain. Mishchenko, of course, is an artilleryman, but before the war he commanded the Trans-Baikal Cossack brigade, and before that he was an assistant to the head of the security guard of the CER. Few people knew the theater of operations better than him.
The raid on Yingkou was simply organized in the "best" traditions of the then Russian army. From all regiments in a hundred or a squadron, the commanders of each other for the first time saw who was capable of what they did not know, they did not represent the area, so they dragged everything with them. Here Budyonny would not be a fact that he would have coped.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Senior Sailor

The raid on Yingkou was simply organized in the "best" traditions of the then Russian army. From all regiments in a hundred or a squadron, the commanders of each other saw for the first time who was capable of what they did not know, they did not represent the area, so they dragged everything with them.

EMNIP, on Khalkhin Gol it was the same: the regular pulling apart of units and formations and the creation of consolidated detachments. And everything will repeat itself as of old ... ©

[Ryazan87]

Budyonny honestly tried to talk about the Japanese) "Napolz" on Yingkou is just a laugh through tears. It was necessary to give Rennenkampf's cavalry. Give the cavalry, but not give stupid, cowardly orders and instructions in the Kuropatkin style.

[Senior seaman]

Quote: Ryazanets87

It was necessary to give Rennenkampf's cavalry

The raid on Yingkou began on December 30, 1904, before Rennenkampf had healed his wound. In a field battle, he somehow could command, which he successfully demonstrated in Mukden, but in a raid ...

[vladcub]

Ivan, in fact, if you understand it strictly. The cavalry army was formed by B. M Dumenko, the main victories were also with him. And S.M. came to the ready

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Ryazanets87

And so it was carried out that it was only necessary to be baptized, that they did not arrange a landing on some Hokkaido.

At exactly. ©
1945 year. The fifth year of the war! And the soldiers and commanders on Shumshu are forced to lie down with grenades under the tanks and close the embrasures of the bunker with their chest.
And this is only because no one bothered to properly plan the landing: because of the stones suddenly found in the landing zone, it was not possible to land at shallow depths or on the beach. As a result, with the forces of the first echelon, only 4 "forty-fives" were able to be transported ashore. And the personnel were generally unloaded "in full combat" at depths of about 2 m with the order to get to the coast on their own. I am not even talking about the fact that out of all the radios of the landing force only one has endured such a thing, and about the wonderful organization of air defense, which allowed Japanese aircraft to raid the DESO ships.

[Lynx2000]

[quote = Ryazanets87] Moreover, not having a normal fleet, we conducted a number of landing operations, [/ quote] - on amphibious ships kindly provided by the Americans. And so it was carried out that it was only necessary to be baptized, that they did not arrange a landing on some Hokkaido. [/ Quote]
I gave you a plus, however, can you specify specifically what landing craft did the Americans supply?
On the example of the Kuril airborne operation, it is known:

From the Kamchatka Regional Library named after S.P. Krasheninnikov, Kamchatka defensive area:
"The 6th division is formed by torpedo boats (TK) and boats of the MO-1943 type arriving in 1944-1 from America. Arriving BTShch for escorting transports are included in the newly formed 2nd Battalion battalion as part of the PVMB. In January 1944 On board the steamers Orel, Kuban, Dekabrist, Odessa, and Vladivostok, 4 boats MO-1 each arrived from America, and one boat MO-1 arrived on the steamer Dalstroy. In July 1944, 6 torpedo boats were aboard the Taganrog tanker. In August 1944, 6 and 4 torpedo boats were delivered from America aboard the Emba and Krasnogvardeets steamships. September, aboard the Maikop tanker. USA 4 torpedo boats. In October 1944, 6 torpedo boats, 5 - TK and 4 "MO-1" arrived from the USA. 18 torpedo boats, 1944 boats of the MO-9 type were sent to Vladivostok on the Pugachev steamer October 5 - 1 torpedo boats were sent to Vladivostok , 1944 boats of the "MO-6" type, etc. In October 6, the 1th squadron of torpedo boats was formed, which includes all arriving boats from the United States, with the exception of those sent to Vladivostok.
For the operation, units of the Kamchatka defensive region and the Petropavlovsk naval base were involved: 138th, 373rd, 302nd rifle regiments, 428th howitzer artillery regiment, 279th artillery regiment, 119th separate sapper battalion, 169 128st separate anti-tank destroyer battalion, parts of the 888th aviation division (410th and 903th fighter regiments, 2rd bomber aviation regiment), 726 separate naval border aviation regiment, 8th separate anti-aircraft artillery division, submarines L -105, Shch-XNUMX, warships: minelayer "Okhotsk", patrol ships "Kirov", "Dzerzhinsky", four minesweepers, etc.
To capture the northern islands of the Kuril ridge, two reinforced rifle regiments and a battalion of marines were allocated, formed from coastal units and the 60th Maritime Border Detachment (a total of 8 824 people, 205 guns and mortars, heavy and light machine guns, supplies of everything necessary for conducting hostilities ), ships and mobilized vessels of the Petropavlovsk naval base (64 units in total), the 128th air division and the 2nd separate light bomber regiment of naval aviation. From m. Lopatka landing on the island. Shumshu was supposed to be supported by the 945th separate coastal artillery battery (four 130-mm guns).
The ship forces were formed into four detachments - transports and landing craft, escort, trawling and fire support. The detachments had the following composition: a detachment of transports and landing craft - the floating battery "Sever", hydrographic vessels "Polyarny" and "Lebed", 14 transports, 15 landing craft, 2 self-propelled barges, 4 landing ships of the "Kawasaki" type; security detachment - 2nd and 3rd divisions of patrol boats of the MO-4 type (eight boats); trawling detachment - minesweepers "Vekha", No. 155, 156, 525, minesweepers No. 151 and 154; fire support detachment - patrol ships "Dzerzhinsky", "Kirov" and minelayer "Okhotsk" (12, l. 26, 27). "

The war between the USSR and Japan, earlier, was interesting to me.
My maternal grandfather, Grigory, was a participant in the amphibious assault operation in the port of Seisin.

[lodochnik2000]

http://militera.lib.ru/memo/russian/kabanov_si2/16.html

[Ryazan87]

30 LCI (L) of the second series in July 1945 were transferred to the USSR in the Pacific under Lend-Lease and entered the Pacific Fleet. In the Soviet Navy, landing craft (DS) were called. Also transferred 10 tank landing LCT.
For more details: https://cyberleninka.ru/article/n/amerikanskie-korabli-v-sostave-tihookeanskogo-flota-vo-vremya-sovetsko-yaponskoy-voyny/viewer

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Lynx2000

I gave you a plus, however, can you specify specifically what landing craft did the Americans supply?

LCT - 13 (10 arrived at the start of the war).
LCI - 30.
In the landing on Shumshu, 5 LCIs were lost (according to other sources - from 4 to 7).

[parusnik]

Tell me what I read now? Author, have you at least read the sources to which you refer to the end? .. And then we wonder why people go to O. Buzova at the Moscow Art Theater.

[vladcub]

Lesha, hello. The author has no time to read to the end. He may have only read the title and the anotion

[Black lotos]

Logistics is talent (for this is really a feat that historians diligently bypass, extolling the personal qualities of people, before routine work) of those people who ensured victory.
It's just that their names are not always immortalized. Roman road builders - secured most victories, not legions. But the legions remember. The English Empire was provided with modest cargo ships, but they remember only the victories of the fleet and the army. And so in everything.
Logistics and medicine are the keys to army victories. And the best talent of a military leader is to be able to find talented workers on these fronts.
Few remember someone like Leo VI the Wise, and he is the "father" of military logistics. Well, the first who recognized Russia as a state (trade agreement of September 2, 911, which is the first mention of Russia as a state)
True, he summarized ancient knowledge. Labor "Tactics of the Lion"

[Denis812]

While there are not enough Russian citizens in the Far East, there will be no Russia there.
I would go to the Far East, to Kunashir, for example.
But is the state ready to provide me with the same salary that I have the same conditions for hospitals and other things?
Probably not.
Until this happens - for me the Far East is just a tourist land, nothing more.
Flag in the seagull to the Kremlin.

[Bogatyrev]

I don't quite understand. The cargo figures for Khalkhin-Gol, named by Zhukov, are no more than 15 echelons.
Not a day. Total.

[Spring fluff]

I read the following about the reasons for the construction of the Transsib:
https://pikabu.ru/story/kak_kitayskaya_ugroza_posposobstvovala_stroitelstvu_transsiba_6074961
In the summer of 1890, information appeared about plans to build a Chinese railway to the Russian Primorye. China with the help of British engineers began to lay its railway from Beijing to the north, in Manchuria and on to the village of Hunchun, located at the junction of three borders: China, Russia and Korea, only a hundred of miles from Vladivostok.
At that time, 400 million people lived in China, and on the bordering lands of the subjects of Russia - 200 times less. The prospect of the emergence of a railroad capable of bringing countless millions of Chinese closer to the sparsely populated Far East of Russia frankly frightened St. Petersburg. Just 40 years ago, these lands were officially considered Chinese, and the growth of influence of the Chinese authorities, inevitable here after the appearance of their road, could tempt Beijing to remember it.

[geologist]

The Amur partisans allowed the Japanese to light a cigarette without any marketing and logistics. This is now being demonstrated by the Taliban in Afghanistan. The Far East was ordered to extinction, just like the rest of the great country. When an unknown firm from Brussels commands to flood a modern tin-mining mine in Kavalerovo, and then destroy the extraction of fluorite and tungsten in Primorye, then you will inevitably believe in the conspiracy theory.