Knives: the evolution of steel

85

The knife is one of the most ancient tools of mankind. If we ignore the Stone and Bronze Ages, then in the simplest case a knife is a sharpened piece of iron (steel) with a handle that is comfortable to hold.

The main part of the knife, which determines its functionality, is a blade with a cutting edge. Its capabilities are largely determined by the structural material - steel and its heat treatment.



Composition and structure


The properties of steel are determined by its composition and structure. The presence of certain impurities (alloying elements) can increase the hardness or corrosion resistance of the blade. The problem often lies in the fact that by increasing the hardness, we can simultaneously increase the brittleness of the steel and reduce its corrosion resistance. On the other hand, by increasing the corrosion resistance, we worsen other parameters.

For example, carbon increases the hardness of steel, but decreases its toughness and ductility. Other alloying elements also add both positive and negative properties to the steel. Chromium increases wear and corrosion resistance, but increases brittleness. Vanadium and molybdenum increase toughness and strength, increase resistance to thermal effects, nickel - increases corrosion resistance, hardness and toughness of steel, vanadium improves strength and wear resistance of steel. Manganese and silicon increase the ductility of the steel. All these elements carry their positive qualities only in strictly defined quantities, as a result of which metallurgists have to be extremely careful and balanced in the selection of the steel composition.

In addition, alloying elements often tend to concentrate at certain points at which a stress source can arise, as a result of which the blade will break at this point under load.

Knives: the evolution of steel
Distribution of carbides in steels

For this reason, in the old days, Damascus and damask steels arose, in which, by multiple superposition of several types of steel and their forging, the most uniform distribution of alloying elements was achieved.


The pattern of Damascus steel is due to repeated forging of its constituent layers

According to the author, in the newest knife stories three periods can be distinguished.

The first period was the use of "rusting" carbon steels and stainless steels with low hardness and edge retention characteristics (first half of the XNUMXth century).

The second period is the emergence of stainless steels with high characteristics of hardness and cutting edge retention (second half of the XNUMXth century).

The third period is the appearance of powder stainless steels (the beginning of the XXI century).

These periods can be considered rather arbitrary, since even now some companies produce knives from carbon steel. Nevertheless, it was at the beginning of the 420th century that the first stainless steels appeared, including the famous 420 steel, from which a huge number of knives are still produced all over the world. For example, if an inexpensive Chinese knife is purchased, costing several hundred rubles, then the blade will most likely contain XNUMX steel.


The French company OPINEL produces classic folding knives, including those with carbon steel blades

The appearance in the second half of the 440th century of steel grades 440A, 440B, 65C (close Russian counterparts 13x95, 18x110, 18xXNUMX), characterized by a high carbon content, made it possible to produce conditionally stainless knives with hardness and cutting properties comparable to knives and blades made of carbon steel.

Why "conditionally stainless"?

Because almost any steel can rust, the only question is in the environment and the degree of exposure. For example, most stainless steels corrode well at sea from salt water. By the way, the ancient 420 steel is one of the most stainless steel.

Nevertheless, it is much more convenient to use stainless steel knives in everyday life - during the same period, while the stainless steel is only covered with rust spots, the carbon steel will rust to holes. In addition, carbon steels often produce an unpleasant aftertaste when cut.

The appearance of powder steels helped to solve the problem of the uniformity of the distribution of alloying elements. One of the ways to obtain powder steel is spraying molten metal in an inert gas medium, after which a fine powder is formed with uniformly distributed alloying elements. After that, the powder is sintered into a monolithic bar by isostatic pressing.


Powder steel


Structure of plain and powder steel

One of the first and most common powder steels used for making knives was CPM S30V, developed in 2001 by Dick Barber, a specialist at the Swedish Crucible Materials Corporation, and Chris Reeve, a renowned knifemaker.

In addition to the usual process of making blades from strips and bars, powder steel allows for very interesting technological solutions.

The American company Kershaw released the Offset 1597 folding knife, with a blade made using MIM (Metal Injection Molding) technology - a technology for casting powder metals and alloys under pressure, also called MITE (Metal Injection Molding with an Edge). The MIM / MITE technology mixes the metal powder with the binder to make the mold size 20% larger than the final blade size. Then, with the help of sintering under pressure, the density of the finished product is increased to 99,7% of the density of the parent metal (the binder burns out during sintering). The result is a product with a complex 3D shape that cannot be obtained in any other way.


Kershaw Offset 1597

The possibility of uniform distribution of alloying elements in powder steels led to an increase in their percentage, which resulted in the emergence of so-called super steels, such as, for example, ZDP 189 or Cowry-X, however, the complexity of their sharpening and high cost limit their distribution.

More balanced steels such as M390 / M398, CPM-20CV, Elmax and others easier to manufacture and maintain - CPM S30V / CPM S35V, CTS-XHP, etc. have become more popular.


Relative characteristics of various modern knife steels

Ultimately, it all depends on the cost of the blade - neither super steels, nor even just high-quality powder steels have displaced cheaper non-powder steels from the market. The knife steel market can be thought of as a pyramid, with the well-deserved 420 steel at the base and the latest super steels at the top, descending as steels emerge that are even more “super”.

Moreover, the point here is not only in the cost of the starting material - the most important technological process that "reveals" the characteristics of steel is heat treatment. Each steel requires its own heat treatment, and when a new super steel comes along, it takes time for manufacturers to master it.

Термообработка


Heat treatment - hardening, tempering, normalizing, annealing and cryogenic treatment of the metal, allows you to bring the blade to those characteristics that are implied by the grade of the steel used. Correct high-quality heat treatment allows you to "squeeze" the maximum possible out of steel, while the wrong one can completely ruin the final product, no matter what expensive materials are used in it. It is safe to say that it is better to choose a blade made of simpler steel, but with good heat treatment, than a blade made of super steel, made by a specialist who does not know how to heat it.


The classic Buck Folding Hunter folding knife has long been made from "plain" 420HC steel, but the skills of Buck's thermists make it possible to get the most out of it.

A knife company is often renowned for its ability to work with a certain steel, and its products made of more modern steel may have inferior performance due to poor heat treatment processes.

Equipment for heat treatment plays an important role. Modern quenching furnaces allow for heat treatment in vacuum and in various media - argon, nitrogen, helium, hydrogen. Equipment for cryoprocessing at a temperature of -196 degrees provides an increase in wear resistance, cyclic strength, corrosion and erosion resistance. For example, the resource of products by cryoprocessing can be increased by 300%.

The need to use complex and expensive equipment does not allow artisanal workshops to perform all the necessary technological operations, therefore, the assertion that “our uncle Kolya makes the best knives in the world in the garage” are hardly justified.

Composite blades


Another way to make knife blades is to create composite blades.

In principle, the aforementioned blades made of Damascus and damask steels are also composite - in them materials with a lower carbon content are combined with materials with a higher carbon content. However, in modern composite blades, the process is implemented in a slightly different way.

Usually, the predominant part of the blade is made of a material that has more elasticity, but less hardness and brittleness, while the cutting edge is made of a harder material. Such a blade combines good mechanical properties and a high-quality cutting edge. However, on expensive models of knives, they still prefer to use super steels.

Another option is to use less expensive steel as a base, and more expensive but high quality steel on the cutting edge. For example, on the Kershaw JYD II knife, the base of the cutting edge is made of inexpensive Chinese 14C28N steel, and the cutting edge is made of the more durable American D2.


Kershaw JYD II knife

However, as in the case of more expensive knives, the reduction in the cost of the starting material is compensated by the complexity of manufacturing a composite blade, and therefore such models are the exception rather than the rule.

The most popular direction in which composite blades are used is designer knives produced in limited quantities. They combine materials to create a spectacular blade appearance.


Zero Tolerance 0777 knife with a composite blade including Vanax 35 steel on the cutting edge and Damascus steel butt

Past versus future


On the Internet, you can often see articles that say that the secret of real damask and damascus has long been lost, and now its pitiful counterparts are being released. Say, if that secret is revealed, then blades made of "real" damask or damascus will give a head start of 100 points ahead of modern steels.

In fact, this is highly unlikely. Technological progress, equipment and materials science are now at the highest level, unattainable for the masters of the past. Yes, good craftsmen could produce products from damask and damask with characteristics ahead of their time, but now their products are likely to yield to their modern counterparts made of super steels.

However, starting from the moment when modern stainless steels of the 440 line and their analogues appeared, there is no global need for improving knife steels - almost all high-quality knives with correct heat treatment cope with everyday tasks.

The appearance of super steels on knives is rather a tribute to the market and the desire of users, many of whom are fans and collectors of knives and want to get something new, more “cool”. And there is nothing wrong with that, since not only steel is being improved, but also the design of knives and design. Many of modern knives can be confidently attributed to art objects, whose artistic value is not inferior to the canvases of outstanding artists, and the value only increases over time.

In the next article, we will talk about the design solutions used in modern knives.
85 comments
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  1. +10
    6 August 2021 04: 00
    The D2 is not Japanese but American steel.
    1. +9
      6 August 2021 10: 57
      Quote: out of habit
      The D2 is not Japanese but American steel.


      Thank you, you should fix it.
  2. +12
    6 August 2021 04: 05
    Still, a harmonious thing is a good knife, where everything is important - from the blade to the handle.
    Any boy has a craving.
    1. +23
      6 August 2021 05: 04
      I am fascinated by good and beautiful knives. I like Plastun old Cossack knives - nothing superfluous, the very functionality and simplicity brought to perfection ..
      "I always sleep with a knife under my pillow - suddenly strangers will bring a cake at night .." ©
      1. +4
        6 August 2021 13: 01
        Quote: SERGE ant
        I like Plastun old Cossacks - nothing superfluous, the very functionality and simplicity brought to perfection ..

        You can argue here. The main disadvantage is the absence of a guard / limiter on most plastun knives. Which is fraught with injury if used awkwardly.
      2. +4
        6 August 2021 15: 36
        Plastun-remakes, especially from V. Nazarov and ATAKA firm - I really like it.
    2. +7
      6 August 2021 09: 05
      And in everyday life, it turns out that a stationery knife with replaceable blades becomes the most practical.
      1. +4
        6 August 2021 10: 58
        Quote: Archon
        And in everyday life, it turns out that a stationery knife with replaceable blades becomes the most practical.


        I wouldn't say that. Only if you open boxes and envelopes.
      2. +3
        6 August 2021 15: 28
        It's in the office. Farther from the city, priorities may change.
      3. +2
        6 August 2021 21: 26
        In everyday life and in nature, there is nothing more convenient than a simple finca (with a fungus), with a mm4 blade.
  3. +7
    6 August 2021 04: 23
    They are furious with fat, as my grandmother would say, her kingdom is heavenly.
    Mora 511 from ordinary carbon steel is quite enough for most, and the price tag is already at the reasonable limit for a "simple knife".

    Quite good (for normal purposes, not for throwing at a low-flying F35) knives are obtained from decommissioned calipers. At any large factory there are enough of them, steel - something like 40x13, rusts with difficulty, is quite hard and flexible.

    I've seen knives made of titanium, yes.
    A familiar blacksmith, hearing about this, immediately began to swear, because knives made of titanium are bad compared to steel ones.
    1. +2
      6 August 2021 06: 47
      Quote: VicktorVR
      I've seen knives made of titanium, yes.
      A familiar blacksmith, hearing about this, immediately began to swear, because knives made of titanium are bad compared to steel ones.

      Well, sho made of titanium? There was a time when at a certain enterprise of this titanium there was heaps of shoe polish like "Uncle Matroskin's" shoe polish! So they did anything! And sho titanium? Knives were also made of copper, bronze, silver ...
      1. +5
        6 August 2021 12: 42
        Quote: Nikolaevich I
        There was a time when at a certain enterprise of this titanium there were heaps of

        I spoke with one worker from such a plant. He said that in addition to titanium shovels (one might say, a classic), they also made toilets from titanium.
        1. +2
          6 August 2021 16: 55
          Quote: Bad_gr
          in addition to titanium shovels (one might say, classics), toilet bowls were also made of titanium.

          Paaad think toilets! Can you imagine titanium barrels? Summer residents love to plant toilets on "iron" barrels! The one who got the titanium barrels was certainly right! belay
          1. +2
            6 August 2021 17: 41
            One of my colleagues at work made 3-4 hoes from sheet titanium every year for weeding and spudding potatoes.
            1. +2
              6 August 2021 18: 45
              Quote: sibiryouk
              One of my colleagues at work made 3-4 hoes from sheet titanium every year for weeding and spudding potatoes.

              In my opinion, about the hoe, the idea is not good: it is desirable for her to have weight, which titanium does not provide. Or add something heavier, then make sense of titanium?
              1. +2
                6 August 2021 19: 13
                Maybe he believed that titanium is more durable than steel, but for some reason he made them every year, if only not a hollyava.
          2. +1
            6 August 2021 21: 44
            Quote: Nikolaevich I
            Quote: Bad_gr
            in addition to titanium shovels (one might say, classics), toilet bowls were also made of titanium.

            Paaad think toilets! Can you imagine titanium barrels? Summer residents love to plant toilets on "iron" barrels! The one who got the titanium barrels was certainly right! belay


            Now they will be opposed at once.
    2. +6
      6 August 2021 08: 19
      Quote: VicktorVR
      Decent (for normal purposes, not for throwing at low-flying F35) knives are obtained from decommissioned calipers

      Earlier, I remember homemade knives made from riveted valves from car engines were popular. And from the valves from the helicopter engines, we picked sodium, puff for half a day, saw off the valve head, dig the sodium into the water. But this was very rare due to the difficulty of obtaining such valves.
      1. +7
        6 August 2021 09: 02
        Sodium valves were also on cars.
        GAZ 53, the exhaust valve, was sodium.
        If I'm not mistaken, the Zilovsky graduation ceremony too.
        They did not add it to the intake valves, it is already cooled by the incoming air and fuel.
        From one valve you could get a small sodium ball. In the water, he ran on the surface and "burned".
    3. +5
      6 August 2021 10: 20
      A familiar blacksmith, of course, is right to get a beautiful, lightweight for space money, but with a hardness of 45-48 HRC, this is a "knife that you will sharpen every day" - a dubious pleasure, or a knife - for a shelf winked
    4. +2
      6 August 2021 11: 01
      Quote: VicktorVR
      They are furious with fat, as my grandmother would say, her kingdom is heavenly.
      Mora 511 from ordinary carbon steel is quite enough for most, and the price tag is already at the reasonable limit for a "simple knife".


      Carbon knives are inconvenient in everyday life. He hesitated a little - everything is in corrosion. And the products from her get a disgusting aftertaste.

      Quote: VicktorVR
      I've seen knives made of titanium, yes.
      A familiar blacksmith, hearing about this, immediately began to swear, because knives made of titanium are bad compared to steel ones.


      Titanium knives are only needed for those working at sea due to their unrivaled corrosion resistance. In addition, in my opinion, sappers use them - the magnetic detonator of sea mines does not work on a titanium knife.
      1. 0
        22 August 2021 09: 13
        Quote: AVM
        Carbon knives are inconvenient in everyday life. He hesitated a little - everything is in corrosion. And the products from her get a disgusting aftertaste.

        Any knife needs maintenance. most of the people judge the knife by the kitchen, where a woman reigns mainly in the Russian Federation. Here at least take my wife. Cuts on glass, washes in water and does not wipe the knife, throws it into the dishwasher. This is a completely barbaric attitude to the knife. A knife in nature is used by a much smaller number of people, respectively, and the requirements here are different. The knife should not be expensive, because then it is a pity to use it, the knife should be relatively strong and very sharp, the knife should be able to be corrected at any time to an acceptable sharpness even on a stone. I don’t really know competitors here. Well, and no particular change in the taste of the products, after cutting them with carbon steel, I did not notice the blade. do not forget that good steels have appeared only recently and there is such a variety of them. most of the history of the knife, it is not powder super steels at all.
    5. +3
      6 August 2021 15: 41
      I had a homemade all-metal knife made of titanium, it does not keep sharpening well, the knife itself was made of VT14 alloy with 2 thermals, the only advantage is that it is lighter than steel and stainless steel.
  4. +5
    6 August 2021 04: 40
    I always look with fascination at the work of blacksmiths forging knives ... this is a whole poem ... especially if the blacksmith is talented and processes metal with special love.
    The output is a work of art.
  5. +6
    6 August 2021 05: 53
    In the next article, we will talk about the design solutions used in modern knives.

    About the forms and features of the application to these forms! It is painful to hear stories to justify one form or another of the blade. Yes
    I liked the article good
  6. +8
    6 August 2021 07: 23
    I remember in childhood almost every kid in the yard had his own knife. And the games were appropriate: -in the "ground", in the "tree." They threw knives into the ground from any part of the body, nose, elbow, fingers, etc. I forgot the games. I had a zonovskaya "vykiduha" in the form of a fish. I exchanged vodka and a piece of bacon for a check laughing
    Respect author
  7. +3
    6 August 2021 09: 06
    For this reason, in the old days, Damascus and damask steels arose, in which, by multiple superposition of several types of steel and their forging, the most uniform distribution of alloying elements was achieved.

    A completely illiterate statement. Damascus and damask steels have no alloying elements.
    1. +4
      6 August 2021 18: 32
      Quote: Undecim
      Damascus and damask steels have no alloying elements.

      But some historians argue that, in fact, in the Middle Ages, alloyed steels were made ... "here and there sometimes"!
  8. -2
    6 August 2021 09: 34
    close Russian counterparts 65x18, 95x18, 110x18

    There are no steels with a similar designation. There are steel 65X18, 95X18, 110X18.
    1. +5
      6 August 2021 11: 21
      Quote: Undecim
      close Russian counterparts 65x18, 95x18, 110x18

      There are no steels with a similar designation. There are steel 65X18, 95X18, 110X18.


      Except for you, no one really cares about this, in half of the sources it is indicated with a large "X" in half with a small "x".

      http://stalmart.ru/catalog/polosa/20870

      https://germes-company.ru/info/stal/kakaya-stal-dlya-nozha-luchshe-65h13-ili-95h18
      1. -4
        6 August 2021 13: 52
        And you don't even call aluminum aluminum?
        As for the sources to which you refer, this is the scribble of the same amateurs, like you, who foul the net with scribbling on topics in which they do not understand anything and in which damask steel is alloy steel.
        1. +9
          6 August 2021 14: 36
          Quote: Undecim
          And you don't even call aluminum aluminum?
          As for the sources to which you refer, this is the scribble of the same amateurs, like you, who foul the net with scribbling on topics in which they do not understand anything and in which damask steel is alloy steel.


          There is a category of people who just physically need to get to the bottom of something. This is their way of self-affirmation. God forbid to say "copier" or "jeep" in their presence - you will immediately receive a bunch of instructions that a copier and a jeep are a brand, but you need to say a copier and an SUV, although these phrases have become, as they say, common nouns and commonly used by normal people do not cause rejection for a long time.

          And such people cannot be explained the difference between an official document, where everything must be painted according to GOST, and publicistic materials in which a big "X" or a small "x" for adequate people does not constitute a critical problem.

          Try to write something yourself, and see how many comments and shortcomings others have found in it.
          1. -2
            6 August 2021 15: 05
            Even on this site you can find two dozen of my articles, you can "dig" and look for shortcomings.
            Normal people are rejected by ball skiers who, under the guise of "journalism", push their hack to the masses and multiply their ignorance.
            As for "try to write something yourself", I have tried enough for half a century, you still have to write and write.
      2. +2
        7 August 2021 07: 09
        Quote: AVM
        Quote: Undecim
        close Russian counterparts 65x18, 95x18, 110x18

        There are no steels with a similar designation. There are steel 65X18, 95X18, 110X18.


        Except for you, no one really cares about this, in half of the sources it is indicated with a large "X" in half with a small "x".

        http://stalmart.ru/catalog/polosa/20870

        https://germes-company.ru/info/stal/kakaya-stal-dlya-nozha-luchshe-65h13-ili-95h18

        I would venture to suggest that one colleague counted "x" as the sign of multiplication, and the other as the letter "X". Somehow like this.
    2. +5
      6 August 2021 19: 06
      .There are steel 65X18...

      Exactly? 65X13 I know.
      1. -4
        6 August 2021 20: 19
        Typo, you are right.
  9. +5
    6 August 2021 09: 45
    The article seems to be designed to confuse the reader. There is no mention of high-quality surgical steel, roughly under the designation x50crmov15 Steel, this is an alloy steel containing Chromium-Molybdenum-Vanadium, and it is used for good knives. The rest of the household items are labeled stainless steel and are mostly inferior in quality to surgical ones. They also make more expensive knives than from surgical steel, but this is already for collectors.
    1. +4
      6 August 2021 11: 26
      Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
      The article seems to be designed to confuse the reader.


      The article does not aim to list all the grades of knife steels.

      Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
      There is no mention of high-quality surgical steel, roughly under the designation x50crmov15 Steel, this is an alloy steel containing Chromium-Molybdenum-Vanadium, and it is used for good knives.


      x50crmov15 is an ordinary steel, there is nothing outstanding in it. It is used for ordinary kitchen knives, albeit of high quality.

      Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
      The rest of the household items are labeled stainless steel and are mostly inferior in quality to surgical ones.


      What goes under the "stainless steel" label is usually made from Chinese 420.

      Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
      They also make more expensive knives than from surgical steel, but this is already for collectors.


      By no means, you just quickly get used to good things. You get used to the fact that the knife is sharp, cuts well and does not dull for a relatively long time. Therefore, the price of 5000-10000 for a folding knife with good steel is considered quite justified.
      1. +3
        6 August 2021 11: 32
        Surgical steel x50crmov15 is not at all common. If you talk about it as steel for ordinary kitchen knives, then give such examples. These knives will be of very high quality in the middle and high price segment.
        Everything that is higher in quality has exorbitant prices for the layman, and is intended for fans of weapons and collectors.
        It is even easier to bypass this steel in terms of quality, it will be expensive, this is titanium, tungsten or some Japanese technology, the essence of which is unknown to me.
        1. +3
          6 August 2021 11: 41
          Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
          Surgical steel x50crmov15 is not at all common. If you talk about it as steel for ordinary kitchen knives, then give such examples. These knives will be of very high quality in the middle and high price segment.
          Everything that is higher in quality has exorbitant prices for the layman, and is intended for fans of weapons and collectors.
          It is even easier to bypass this steel in terms of quality, it will be expensive, this is titanium, tungsten or some Japanese technology, the essence of which is unknown to me.


          https://www.eknives.ru/catalogsteel-X50CrMoV15/

          What titanium, what tungsten, what Japanese technology? Titanium knives are soft, only for specific needs. Knives are not made of tungsten; it is used only as an alloying element. The Japanese do not have any secret technologies that are not found in Europe or the United States.

          x50crmov15 is not bad, but simple steel, which does not even reach simple powders like S30V. Although, as I said in the article, heat treatment is more important, I was not interested in this steel, it is possible that there are companies that produce high-quality cooking equipment from it. But this does not characterize this steel as outstanding, rather as a result of the streamlining of technological processes in a large company that produces products from it.
          1. +2
            6 August 2021 11: 58
            In general, this is almost an analogue of the one you referred to as the Japanese D2, although it is an American brand. It's just that European manufacturers do not mark it this way, the marking is X50CrMoV15. Knives are sold here under the same designation.
            Of course, this steel is not outstanding, but it is like a barrier, all that is worse is low quality, what is better is expensive.
            And do not cling to words and simplifications, of course, knives are not made from pure titanium or tungsten. For example, high-speed steel with different tungsten content is used for knives, but these are already expensive knives. And about the softness of titanium is strange to hear, even pure.
            And the aforementioned powder S30V, almost the same, only improved with a high content of vanadium. Surgical instruments are not made of it, probably because of the quality of the surface.
            1. +3
              6 August 2021 12: 56
              [quote = Sergey Aleksandrovich] In general, this is almost an analogue of the Japanese D2 you mentioned [/ quote]

              Likewise, D2 is the steel currently used mainly in inexpensive knives. Less common is the middle segment. Very rarely - an expensive segment.

              [quote = Sergey Aleksandrovich] Of course, this steel is not outstanding, but it's like a barrier, all that is worse is low quality, what is better is expensive. [/ quote]

              I would not be so categorical. As I said, a lot depends on the heat treatment.

              [quote = Sergey Aleksandrovich] For example, high-speed steel with different tungsten content is used for knives, but these are already expensive knives.

              [quote = Sergey Aleksandrovich] And about the softness of titanium is strange to hear, even pure. [/ quote]

              https://www.chipmaker.ru/topic/179710/

              ... only titanium alloys with a beta structure are suitable for knives. Such alloys contain 25% vanadium, 2% aluminum, 15% chromium, 0,15% oxygen and up to 0,3% carbon. This composition allows you to combine plasticity, strength, elasticity, high corrosion resistance, low weight and antibacterial properties. The hardness of the beta titanium alloy blade reaches 48 HRC. Therefore, such a knife will cut in about the same way as a knife made of 420 steel.

              Those. like the cheapest knives from the cheapest stainless steel ...

              [quote = Sergey Aleksandrovich] And the mentioned powder S30V is almost the same, only improved with a high content of Vanadium. Surgical instruments are not made of it, probably because of the quality of the surface. [/ Quote]

              Rather, due to the conservatism of manufacturers.
              1. +2
                6 August 2021 15: 52
                Often it all depends on heat treatment and sharpening - for example, at Kershaw, 14C28N from Sandvik was considered a premium steel segment until recently, and now D2 has taken its place.
        2. +1
          6 August 2021 16: 26
          Example-KITCHEN KNIFE FOR CLEANING VEGETABLES AND FRUITS - COLD STEEL
          Article: 59KSPZ price 968r in the EMPIRE OF KNIVES in St. Petersburg - today's data.
          1. +1
            6 August 2021 16: 32
            These knives do not belong to cheap ones, I wanted to say this, rather the middle and expensive segment. I myself have several knives made of such steel, very high quality.
      2. +1
        6 August 2021 18: 14
        Quote: AVM
        Therefore, the price of 5000-10000 for a folding knife with good steel is considered quite justified.

        Wow cost / efficiency! You never dropped knives, and in miles / police they were not taken away from you out of quiet sadness.
        1. +1
          6 August 2021 19: 14
          Why do you "drop" knives? And in miles / police they take them away from you? Weird...
          1. +1
            7 August 2021 04: 47
            Quote: Grim Reaper
            Why do you "drop" knives? And in miles / police they take them away from you? Weird...

            This is in the past and it wasn't as bad as you might imagine. Well, what does the "PPP" of the 90s tell you about?
            1. 0
              11 August 2021 19: 33
              Quote: Vladimir_2U
              Quote: Grim Reaper
              Why do you "drop" knives? And in miles / police they take them away from you? Weird...

              This is in the past and it wasn't as bad as you might imagine. Well, what does the "PPP" of the 90s tell you about?

              I didn’t think anything. And presented nothing. Well, okay, I confess, I thought that your comment is a little closer than 90e ... But in general, I'm 54, everything has been pofik for a long time. ,;)
        2. 0
          6 August 2021 21: 14
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          Quote: AVM
          Therefore, the price of 5000-10000 for a folding knife with good steel is considered quite justified.

          Wow cost / efficiency! You never dropped knives, and in miles / police they were not taken away from you out of quiet sadness.


          You can see a specific way of life, since you have to drop the knives ...
          And the police don't take anything from me, for this I know the legislation of the Russian Federation well enough and know how to apply it. And I look decent hi

          And even if we talk about knives, in a certain application, then of course, much cheaper products are used for these purposes, which is confirmed by criminal reports.
          1. +1
            7 August 2021 04: 45
            Quote: AVM
            You can see a specific way of life, since you have to drop the knives ...

            That was that, although it was nothing special, and even this is in the past, laughing

            Quote: AVM
            And the police don't take anything from me, for this I know the legislation of the Russian Federation well enough and know how to apply it.
            The current police and the PPS of the 90s are two very different things ... As well as the general situation.
            1. +1
              7 August 2021 07: 01
              It's not bad if you carry a knife on your pocket and have a piece of paper with you, a certificate of conformity (inter-shops almost always send it with a knife, especially domestic ones), this is a document certifying that your knife is not a weapon. While it all depends on the personality of the police officer, this is a common personnel problem.
              1. 0
                7 August 2021 10: 42
                Quote: sibiryouk
                It's not bad if you carry a knife on your pocket and have a piece of paper with you, a certificate of conformity (inter-shops almost always send it with a knife, especially domestic ones), this is a document certifying that your knife is not a weapon. While it all depends on the personality of the police officer, this is a common personnel problem.


                I always take it. Although, in practice, it was never required. Although I had to wander about on business trips, and during the inspection at the station I often showed a knife, I never had any questions. In the city, no one has ever been interested, although it hangs openly on the pocket.

                Only a few times, at different times, did colleagues ask (in a whisper):
                Do you have a knife? What about the police? Aren't you afraid of being jailed for wearing?
            2. +1
              7 August 2021 10: 39
              Quote: Vladimir_2U
              The current police and the PPS of the 90s are two very different things ... As well as the general situation.



              It's true. At that time, communication with police officers sometimes resembled a "bazaar" with gopniks.
      3. +1
        6 August 2021 18: 45
        Shirogorov and Cheburkov have all the folding knives with good steel, but the prices for these domestic manufacturers start at 12000r and then these are single models, but mostly from 15000r.
        1. 0
          6 August 2021 21: 10
          Quote: sibiryouk
          Shirogorov and Cheburkov have all the folding knives with good steel, but the prices for these domestic manufacturers start at 12000r and then these are single models, but mostly from 15000r.


          So Shirogorov and Chebrukov are small-scale knives, closer to custom ones. They cannot be compared in price with the knives of firms that carry out large-scale production.

          And Shirogorov has more than 50000-150000 rubles.
          1. +1
            7 August 2021 06: 53
            There are several online stores, mainly Moscow and St. Petersburg, where Shirogorov and Cheburkov knives are available at a price of 15000r - quite decent knives, even with powder steel, mainly from Beller.
    2. +2
      6 August 2021 16: 14
      Steel 50Crmov15 is used by Cold Steel and some other firms for inexpensive kitchens - up to 1000r price.
      1. +2
        6 August 2021 16: 33
        Inexpensive kitchen knives are 200, not 1000 rubles. If you go to any supermarket, you will not find a single knife made of such steel there, all will be made of ordinary stainless steel. This is so with us, or you have to run around the city or order an online store.
        1. +1
          6 August 2021 17: 37
          Prices are even higher for kitchenettes. KizlyarSuprim has knives with N690 and M390 from 3000 to 5000r, Sander 4000r and above, but these are of course online stores.
        2. -1
          6 August 2021 21: 39
          Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
          Inexpensive kitchen knives are 200, not 1000 rubles. If you go to any supermarket, you will not find a single knife made of such steel there, all will be made of ordinary stainless steel. This is so with us, or you have to run around the city or order an online store.


          I bought forks here, and those for 300 rubles. (more or less normal), hell knows, and what kind of stainless steel is there?

          Kitchen knives for 200 rubles. it is not "inexpensive", it is a blatant cheapness from a bending instantly dull stainless steel unknown to science of nature.

          I don't know how anyone has it, but they serve me for a long time, so buy 2-3 kitchen knives for 2000-3000 rubles. PC. for 10 years I think it is quite normal for most people. Ease of use will pay off.

          And professionals buy knives much more expensive.
  10. +4
    6 August 2021 09: 54
    After that, the powder is sintered into a monolithic bar by isostatic pressing.

    Pressing and sintering are two different processes. Pressing is pressure treatment, sintering is the use of high temperatures.
    There is a process that combines both technologies - hot isostatic pressing.
  11. +3
    6 August 2021 10: 29
    I could be wrong, of course, but damask steel seems to be like cast steel, the alternation of layers in it is obtained at the stage of melting, not forging. Damascus, yes. Forged.
    1. +2
      6 August 2021 11: 27
      Quote: Grossvater
      I could be wrong, of course, but damask steel seems to be like cast steel, the alternation of layers in it is obtained at the stage of melting, not forging. Damascus, yes. Forged.


      Yes, you are right, but in any case, there is mixing of layers in order to obtain uniform distribution of carbides. Although, now it is more "for beauty".
  12. +3
    6 August 2021 16: 03
    Steel 12C27N, 14C28N, D2 - are now actively used by Chinese knife makers, but the first two were created by the Swedish company Sandvik, and the third by the Americans. I am also looking forward to continuing, as I am a knife-lover collector.
    1. +2
      6 August 2021 18: 32
      Trusting Chinese knife makers is the last thing to do ...
      1. +3
        6 August 2021 18: 52
        But what about Kaiser, CH, Rike, Bestech and others like them who make very high quality and not always expensive knives?
        1. +1
          6 August 2021 19: 02
          What did you climb on? On their steels, developments, design?
          1. +1
            6 August 2021 19: 44
            Partly the design, partly the prices, they were definitely not their own, and Ali-Express also helped them a lot, and most importantly the price-quality ratio in comparison with American and some domestic manufacturers (see my comment about Shirogorov, Cheburkov, SCF, etc. .).
            1. 0
              6 August 2021 21: 29
              Quote: sibiryouk
              Partly the design, partly the prices, they were definitely not their own, and Ali-Express also helped them a lot, and most importantly the price-quality ratio in comparison with American and some domestic manufacturers (see my comment about Shirogorov, Cheburkov, SCF, etc. .).


              High-quality Chinese have prices approaching American and European ones.
              We Knife Chimera 814ALH steel S35VN SW, titanium Bronze grip
              21 750 p.

              1. +1
                7 August 2021 06: 31
                Wee Knife has a budgetary branch-Sivivi, they copy many models with cheaper steels (D2, 14C28N, Nitro-V), the handle is made of simpler materials, the locks - naturally, prices are 2-3 times lower.
                1. +1
                  7 August 2021 10: 36
                  Quote: sibiryouk
                  Wee Knife has a budgetary branch-Sivivi, they copy many models with cheaper steels (D2, 14C28N, Nitro-V), the handle is made of simpler materials, the locks - naturally, prices are 2-3 times lower.


                  For now, all the same, all other things being equal, I prefer Cold Steel or Kershaw for a comparable price. The same Cold Steel has a Light series, at a price of about 5000 rubles, it has quite interesting models. And they are very good in practical terms - reliable, with the Tri-Ad-Lok castle.
  13. +7
    6 August 2021 16: 20
    Well, in general, until the middle of the 20th century, knives were taken seriously, and then they began to make fun of them) Damascus and damask were practically not used in the knife business, since a knife made of damask or damask is a monstrously expensive and absolutely useless thing in the household.
    The fact is that there are few deposits on the planet where you can get high-quality abrasive materials for sharpening high-quality steels. Very few. And what is the use of a knife to a person, which has to be sharpened for days? Moreover, it is almost as easy to ruin the edge of a high-strength knife as well as not too strong) It's funny, but true ...
    So there were very few fools who were ready to shell out a lot of money for a damask knife. And even more so for the fragile Damascus) Only in the 20th century did good whetstones become massively available. Just when the knife from often the only means of survival turned into a useful, but ordinary tool.
    All the photos of knives in the article are a reflection of silly and completely unnecessary fun, something like a cosplay of the battles of the 17th century.
    1. +1
      12 October 2021 21: 28
      The best knife is the one that is expensive. The more expensive a knife is, the better it is than a neighbor, but bought it elsewhere much cheaper. Exactly the same bicycles. The more paid for it, the better. Like the woman who saw the $ 800 fur coat, but there was no discount. In another store there was the same fur coat but it cost 1200 but there was a $ 100 discount, she bought this thing. Any knife is good if you have one at the right time and a million dollar knife when you don't have one. But nature makes the best knives and hones them for millions of years and calls them teeth. And I don't care if they are good, but they are free, so they don't give them the care they need. But when he paid money for his teeth, they are watching them. David killed Goliath with an ordinary stone. And the best knives were made from chalcedony. The best blades for operations are made from it. And knives with all sorts of decorations are tsatzki.
  14. +2
    6 August 2021 19: 03
    On one of the "Blades" near the counter with knives, I overheard a conversation between his wife and her husband (the wife spoke loudly and confident that she was right):
    Wife: "Vasya, why do you need another knife, you already have 5 of them!"
    Vasya mumbles something in response ...
    With what regret did the peasants look at this Vasya near the counter ...
    1. +1
      6 August 2021 21: 20
      Quote: Alexander X
      On one of the "Blades" near the counter with knives, I overheard a conversation between his wife and her husband (the wife spoke loudly and confident that she was right):
      Wife: "Vasya, why do you need another knife, you already have 5 of them!"
      Vasya mumbles something in response ...
      With what regret did the peasants look at this Vasya near the counter ...


      All the same, the sixth will buy. This is the way ...
  15. exo
    +2
    6 August 2021 19: 20
    Yes, 420 steel from Pavel Boss, and now from his followers, is very good. In principle, ATS-34 and its American counterpart 154CM are self-sufficient for me. Now the powder S30 is already in the category of privates, not premium. That is, very affordable for the money.
    And here we come to the important thing: it is important who thermals and what geometry.
    1. 0
      12 October 2021 21: 35
      In the army, he fired from the SKS and he has a built-in bayonet. decided to check how this bayonet is used. It stood next to an old oak stump a couple of meters high. Gently pushed the carbine and the bayonet sank into the oak like butter. He was a little scared that it would be difficult to pull him out, but tilted him slightly and he got out, as if he was not there. The oak trunk was old and seasoned. I tell Lyonka to poke him with a knife that was on his belt. Lyonka stabbed the oak with a knife and only the tip stuck a little. That was the bayonet bayonet from the SKS.
  16. 0
    6 August 2021 20: 32
    Quote: Undecim
    There are no steels with a similar designation. There are steel 65X18, 95X18, 110X18.

    I have a knife, I made it myself from steel 95x18n9t.
    The sting holds so that nails can be cut ...
    1. 0
      6 August 2021 21: 20
      Quote: Xlor
      Quote: Undecim
      There are no steels with a similar designation. There are steel 65X18, 95X18, 110X18.

      I have a knife, I made it myself from steel 95x18n9t.
      The sting holds so that nails can be cut ...


      And there are no marks on the cutting edge?
      1. 0
        6 August 2021 21: 22
        And there are no marks on the cutting edge?

        I was joking about the nails, I didn’t try to cut them.
        But it holds the sting for a very long time, I forgot when I last undermined it ...
        1. +3
          6 August 2021 21: 24
          Quote: Xlor
          And there are no marks on the cutting edge?

          I was joking about the nails, I didn’t try to cut them.
          But it holds the sting for a very long time, I forgot when I last undermined it ...


          With good heat treatment, this is how it should be!
          On the subject of chopping, you better not spread this topic - God knows how many knives were disfigured by an attempt to check them by chopping nails, rail, knife on knife, etc. hi

          I didn’t have time to blink once, when, having given one person a look at the knife, he grabbed it and immediately blasted the cutting edge at his absolutely stupid shit. Ruined me and myself RK. Fortunately, the knife was already old and inexpensive.
  17. The comment was deleted.
  18. 0
    7 August 2021 12: 26
    The appearance in the second half of the 440th century of steel grades 440A, 440B, 65C (close Russian counterparts 18x95, 18x110, 18xXNUMX), characterized by a high carbon content, made it possible to produce conditionally stainless knives with hardness and cutting properties comparable to knives and blades made of carbon steel.

    Oil oil! fellow lol
    ALL!!! carbon steels, only its content differs, for by definition "steel is an alloy of iron with carbon".
    Then it is better to use the terms low-, medium- and high-carbon.
  19. 0
    20 September 2021 15: 07
    Better than Krupp Stainless Steel X50CrMoV15 or imitations (domestic analogue 50X14MF) - among the mass stainless steels for kitchen knives, it is difficult to find.

    I have most of the kitchen knives that I actively use from this steel (I will not advertise manufacturers).
    "Kitaychatina" under the brand name X50CrMoV15 is about 15% inferior in durability (hardness).
    Japanese are better, but inferior to German.
    420 steel is junk, I took a stylized cabaret in the Emirates, I had to sharpen it regularly, sharpening does not hold. The blade is long, allowing it to be used as a lever for chopping chicken bones or ridges of large fish. 7 cuts and sharpening ... junk steel. I did not dare to overheat.

    I do not share the author's enthusiasm for "powder" steels. Fine crystals - useless elasticity, high fragility. To call them super steels is an exaggeration.


    Raised American steel D2 has a domestic analogue of Kh12MF (German X155CrMo12)
    Excellent steel, subject to competent thermal.

    A good thermist is half the battle.
    By the way, the cycle "Between a hammer and a hard place" - about American blacksmiths - artisans - was on the weapons channel.
    Talented artisans - but a collective farm in its purest form, a lot of practical experience, but a minimum of basic knowledge.