An American magazine said that the service of Soviet pilots during the war years was fraught with "dirt and fear."

219

The American magazine The National Interest distinguished itself with an article about Soviet pilots during the Great Patriotic War. The material is, in fact, a description of some excerpts from the book of the Western historian Eric Hooton "War over the Steppes" - with separate comments by the columnist David Ax.

The author writes that the battles on the Eastern Front in the air were "no less brutal than on the ground." At the same time, TNI's interpretation of the war itself sounds like this: “While the Soviets retreated from June to November 1941, Britain and the United States were accumulating forces. As a result, the German army was forced to fight against the triple force. "



The book indicates that the Soviet industry “built many military aircraft, but in terms of quality and characteristics, they were in many ways inferior to the German ones. The author calls the quality of Soviet aircraft during the Great Patriotic War "doubtful". Also in the book of the mentioned historian it is said that in the USSR during the war years "there was a catastrophic shortage of trained pilots."

American historian quoted by American magazine:

The service of Soviet pilots during the war years was fraught with mud and fear. They slept on bunks or straw in village huts about 10 kilometers from the airfields. Technicians could live in dugouts, sleep in bags. They got up at dawn, brushed their teeth with a finger, rarely shaved, then went to the dining room to eat rolls and coffee, but often just black bread. Sometimes with sausage. Then - briefing and takeoff. If they survived, then a quick lunch could be their reward.

It is a question of a generous dinner - two plates of porridge with meat, potatoes and butter. Also, the author does not ignore the relationship between representatives of different sexes, as well as the issue of the toilet, which was "dug in the ground."

Paying attention to these interpretations, which are served as “historical summaries ”, the question arises, is this the focus of the Western author when trying to highlight the topic of war? Or is it a priori incomprehensible for a Western layman, in the absence of a phrase about "coffee and a bun" or gender relations, about the combat everyday life of flight personnel? This is generally a word about how information about the history of the Second World War is presented abroad.
219 comments
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  1. The comment was deleted.
    1. +61
      2 August 2021 13: 33
      An article that the Amerzos themselves are not used to fighting without amenities, a warm toilet, without coffee and a bun and without women.
      For them it is wildness to sleep on straw in unheated earthlings. They are generally accustomed to fighting from afar, having previously razed everything to the ground with bombs. It is in the movies that they are heroes, but in fact they are wet chickens.
      1. -49
        2 August 2021 13: 36
        I see you are an expert on the American army :)

        Let me tell you a secret, their soldiers are also crawling up to their ears in shit and sleeping on just about anything ...

        Quote: Kayala
        It is in the movies that they are heroes, but in fact they are wet chickens.

        and you can also cover them with one hand, and you can slam them with the other ... well, or with a hat
        1. +32
          2 August 2021 13: 38
          Is this where they crawl up to their ears in shit? In the movie "Soldier Jane"?

          As if in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, they cleaned their snouts without any hats so that they hiccupped for a long time. So the warriors of them are only in the movies, but in fact there is nothing. Because to kill for money is one thing, but to die yourself is quite another.
          1. -41
            2 August 2021 13: 43
            I don’t know, I didn’t watch this movie, you obviously draw all your knowledge about America from Hollywood :)

            I assure you when leaving the base, the number of amenities tends to 0
            1. +24
              2 August 2021 13: 48
              Excuse me, what did you serve in the US Armed Forces? Or is there only one correct opinion and it is certainly yours?
              1. -39
                2 August 2021 13: 56
                enough acquaintances from there, and a certain time spent in sga; gives me some understanding of how things are.

                Or do you, with childish naivete, think that they always carry a toilet with a microwave with them ?!
            2. +17
              2 August 2021 15: 11
              Quote: Voletsky
              I don’t know, I didn’t watch this movie, you obviously draw all your knowledge about America from Hollywood :)

              Do not consider it for work, watch 2 films about tankers (pay attention to the relationship in the crew):
              one American "Rage"
              one of our "In war ka in war"
              Draw your own conclusions.
              1. -22
                2 August 2021 15: 15
                Have you decided to judge America and Americans by American films ?! :)

                Do you also propose to judge about Russia by the films? :)
                1. +19
                  2 August 2021 15: 25
                  Quote: Voletsky
                  Do you also propose to judge about Russia by the films? :)

                  I served in the tank forces for 2 years in Hungary, and worked for 2 years as a civilian (security battalion of the Army Headquarters) in Afghanistan. The relationship between their own, that in the carriage, that among colleagues, practically did not differ from those that were in the film "War as in War".
                  Hence, I assume that in the American film about relationships in the carriage as well.
                  PS
                  I am not discussing the topic of what kind of warriors they are at the moment.
                  1. -20
                    2 August 2021 15: 31
                    Hence, I assume that in the American film about relationships in the carriage as well.
                    American films are made for the consumer, among other things, like modern Russian ...

                    Have you seen a lot of good movies about the Second World War from contemporary cultural figures? :)

                    guys ... well, this is some kind of zvizdets :) They are the same as us, they speak only a different language.
                    1. +11
                      2 August 2021 16: 09
                      No, not like that. And Soviet films are completely different. Bother yourself and watch "The Living and the Dead", "They Fought for the Motherland", "The Immortal Garrison", "Only Old Men Go to Battle". Maybe you can understand the difference between a Soviet soldier and American, Soviet cinema and Hollywood.
                      1. -18
                        2 August 2021 16: 11
                        believe that they are different :) no one forbids you ... this discussion is not interesting to me.
                    2. +5
                      2 August 2021 17: 34
                      Quote: Voletsky
                      guys ... well, this is some kind of zvizdets :) They just like usonly speak another language.

                      ===
                      ? negative / speculation filled with an article by a narrow-minded American historian about Soviet pilots

                      Quote: Voletsky
                      the discussion is not interesting to me.

                      ===
                      discussion and uninteresting

                      1. -5
                        2 August 2021 18: 47
                        Quote: Victorio
                        negative / speculation filled with an article by a narrow-minded American historian about Soviet pilots

                        I do not argue.
                        Quote: Victorio
                        discussion and uninteresting

                        agree
                2. +12
                  2 August 2021 15: 45
                  No, you are invited to evaluate the mental message, so to speak, to evaluate the cultural code. And I ask you to remember that the Russian film was created during the active life of the wartime, rather even by himself. "Rage" -film "grandchildren". You about this offer. As for your statements about comfort, not comfort in the framework of the US Army Armed Forces, then you again equate white with square. To you again about the mental presentation of "to endure all the hardships ...", and you joke about microwaves in combat (combat!) Do you really not understand what they are talking to you about? This is bad ... But interesting)))
                  1. -2
                    2 August 2021 15: 54
                    it depends strictly on the person by and large; but we must understand that excessive fatalism and the ability to self-sacrifice is still rather only our trait, I have never met or seen anything like this except in our country, but our current youth seems to me to be different.

                    if you want their mental message as a warrior - watch the platoon; filmed by a person who has been to this war, and filmed what he saw there.

                    1. +4
                      2 August 2021 16: 55
                      "Platoon", "Thin Red Line" there is something to look at about the American spirit, the old American. No speech. Of course, you can argue about young people, but about self-sacrifice and a specific attitude towards women, children, the elderly, and in general and in particular, I agree. However, you wrote about self-sacrifice, well then I will support you in this segment.
                    2. -1
                      3 August 2021 21: 26
                      I like the fall of the Ebon Hawk too. But there are enough blunders both for us and for them.
                3. Alf
                  +3
                  2 August 2021 18: 45
                  Quote: Voletsky
                  you have decided to judge America and Americans by American films

                  And who makes AMERICAN films? Russian directors? Or American? Something I have not seen in American films that an American screenwriter throws a shovel of substance into the American army. Rather, on the contrary, our mother is the best.
                  1. +2
                    2 August 2021 18: 51
                    Quote: Alf
                    Something I have not seen in American films that an American director-scriptwriter throws a shovel of substance into the American army. Rather, on the contrary, our mother is the best.

                    all that remains is for our idiots to stop dipping our history in shit; well, or at least dilute ... For we have moments where we did not blacken in a childish way and where our prowess has no limit.

                    ps This is what I like about them, they are always patriots, they have the best country (although they never left, and they never saw anything)
                    but they accept their mistakes, ours are not yet capable ...
                    What if something happens, we zasera ourselves, that then we call ourselves saints
                    1. Alf
                      +1
                      3 August 2021 19: 10
                      Quote: Voletsky
                      all that remains is for our idiots to stop dipping our history in shit; well, or at least dilute ...

                      The directors are to blame, uh-huh ... And the directors also cover the mausoleum with boards every year? The directors are afraid to mention the one under whose leadership the Soviet Union survived and defeated the European Union .. Or is it state policy? And who directs it and indicates the course?
                  2. 0
                    3 August 2021 15: 32
                    Watch Syrial Trick 22. Or Forest Gump Movie.
                    1. 0
                      3 August 2021 17: 38
                      The series of course
            3. +11
              2 August 2021 15: 59
              And if not about a film, but about January 1945, about the Battle of the Ardennes, when Germany beat the British and Americans in the tail and mane? Or about Rommel and the Kasserian Pass, where he gave the British and Americans a bloodbath? Or about the landing in Naples, where Hitler's aircraft inflicted huge losses on the American amphibious fleet? Or about the island of Kiska, during the "assault" of which the United States lost a destroyer and more than 300 personnel? Moreover, as it turned out, the Japanese left the island 10 days before the appearance of the Americans. Or about Operation Tiger, the last rehearsal of the Normandy landings, in which the Americans lost about 800 sailors and marines and 3 landing ships?
              1. -7
                2 August 2021 16: 03
                I did not understand what you want to say to me :)

                I am not defending the Americans here, but I am fighting with beaters, because they pulled up the Turks, they want to break, then the Azeris, then the Germans we broke a hot water bottle like a tuzik, then the Americans are suckers, but out of some fright, the whole world considers these suckers.
                1. +3
                  2 August 2021 16: 22
                  "... then the Americans are suckers, but out of some fright, the whole world reckons with these suckers."
                  They are considered temporarily. Americans in two world wars and in the mass of colonial wars robbed the whole world. They do not tolerate strong competitors and do not know how to conduct fair competition, more with sanctions, bribery and undercover intrigues. Hatred of amers is gradually growing in the world. And their financial bubble-national debt will burst sooner or later.
              2. +6
                2 August 2021 17: 09
                He wrote more than once (including in his article on VO) that the West is constantly trying to discredit both the decisive contribution of the USSR to the victory in World War II and the victorious Soviet soldiers. In this case, aircraft designers and pilots. It is gratifying that in the comments there was only one out of nowhere, which confirmed the lie of the American. Will live!
          2. +10
            2 August 2021 13: 53
            Quote: Kayala
            Is this where they crawl up to their ears in shit? In the movie "Soldier Jane"?

            In the "Platoon".
            Quote: Kayala
            So the warriors of them are only in the movies, but in fact there is nothing. Because to kill for money is one thing, but to die yourself is quite another.

            Yes Yes. Some already considered the Yankees to be soulless cowardly lazy people, for whom money is the main thing. Everything ended for them with the complete defeat of the armed forces and the economy, capitulation and occupation.
            1. +5
              2 August 2021 14: 00
              Who are you talking about now, about Iraq?

              They cannot cope with Korea and Iran. Probably they have grenades of the wrong system?
              1. +8
                2 August 2021 14: 03
                Quote: Kayala
                Who are you talking about now, about Iraq?

                About one island empire. Who believed that after the very first defeats, the cowardly, pampered Yankees would raise their legs up the hill and ask for peace.
                Quote: Kayala
                They cannot cope with Korea and Iran.

                Are they at war with them?
                1. 0
                  2 August 2021 14: 06
                  They could have won, they would have fought, but the guts are thin. China is behind Korea, and Russia is behind Iran. So bzdyat to meddle.
                2. +9
                  2 August 2021 14: 34
                  Something they zatsali to land on the "island empire" .. called the USSR to stand up for them. Until the Kwantung Army was defeated by the USSR, nothing could be done. They said that they would have gotten a million corpses in the year of the war. And the electorate would not forgive them for this.
                  1. -3
                    2 August 2021 15: 11
                    Quote: Vladimir A
                    Something they zatsali to land on the "island empire" .. called the USSR to stand up for them.

                    The Manchurian operation was primarily needed by the USSR. Otherwise, we would have ended up without the Kuriles and with Chiang Kai-shek China at our side.
                    Quote: Vladimir A
                    They said that they would have gotten a million corpses in the year of the war. And the electorate would not forgive them for this.

                    Are you serious? Yes, propaganda in the United States worked in such a way that Japan was presented as a fiend of evil who dared to attack great America. If our propaganda called "kill the German", then the Yankees - "kill the Japanese, kill the Japanese, kill even more Japanese" © Admiral Halsey.

                    Operation Downfall would be presented to the electorate as a harsh and just punishment for Pearl Harbor and the Philippines.
                    And about a million corpses - don't take the Washington numbers. They were written there based on the goal of knocking out more money from the budget. Pros on the ground estimated the non-return at 250-300 thousand.
                  2. +6
                    2 August 2021 17: 30
                    Quote: Vladimir A
                    called the USSR to stand up for them. Until the Kwantung Army was defeated by the USSR, nothing could be done.

                    Once upon a time there was already a dispute here (on VO) with one comrade from Israel. He argued that the soldiers of the Quantum army fought against the USSR with the hunger, having a great shortage of ammunition .... In general, they were only happy to surrender. Another thing is the Japanese army, which fought against the Americans: of course. well armed, morally charged, samurai, kamikaze, etc. Only an atomic bomb could stop them.
                    1. +1
                      2 August 2021 18: 10
                      Quote: Bad_gr
                      Once upon a time there was already a dispute here (on VO) with one comrade from Israel. He argued that the soldiers of the Quantum army fought against the USSR with the hunger, having a great shortage of ammunition .... In general, they were only happy to surrender. Another thing is the Japanese army, which fought against the Americans: of course. well armed, morally charged, samurai, kamikaze, etc. Only an atomic bomb could stop them.

                      By 1945, the Kwantung Army was indeed far from the same as in 1941-1942.
                      In 1944 and early 1945 many divisions were recalled from the Kwantung Army to the metropolis and to the southern fronts. In just 10 months, during which I commanded the 1st front, 6 divisions were recalled from the front. Among them: 11, 25 infantry and 1 tank division - to the metropolis, 111 and 120 infantry - to Korea and 12 infantry to FORMOZU.
                      In July 1945, at the direction of the headquarters of the Kwantung Army, the 1st Front formed 134, 135 and 139 front and 132 mixed brigades. For the formation of these compounds, in addition to the called-up Japanese and Koreans living in MANCHURIA, various small detachments and units were used, including from border garrisons. We managed to finish the formation mainly by July 30, but not completely, because there were not enough people and weapons (guns and machine guns).
                      © Protocol of interrogation of the Commander 1 Front of General Seiichi

                      But in the Metropolis, things were no better. Yes, on paper the number of divisions was impressive. In fact, the Japanese divisions of the 1945 formation resembled the notorious "Wenck army":
                      An important problem was the provision of new compounds with weapons and military equipment; the available reserves made it possible to provide new formations with rifles by 50%, light machine guns by 23%, field artillery by 28%, anti-tank artillery by 74%, and mountain artillery by 75%.
                      © Hattori Takushiro
                      1. +5
                        2 August 2021 20: 08
                        You will read in the memoirs of Marshal Zhukov about the equipment of the Soviet troops in the periods of 41-42. 74-75%? Yes, there sometimes, in dangerous directions, the artillery had a stock of 10 rounds per week. And the soldier's feat still unscrewed the head of the beast. And here you see, the Kwantui army was not from a needle. Just to devalue the victory
                      2. +2
                        2 August 2021 20: 22
                        Quote: Rokot
                        74-75%? Yes, there sometimes, in dangerous directions, the artillery had a stock of 10 rounds per week.

                        74-75% are anti-tank and mountain artillery. They already wrote about the Japanese VET here - miserable, heartbreaking sight.
                        These lines look like a verdict:
                        rifles by 50%, light machine guns by 23%, field artillery by 28%

                        One rifle for two. At the same time, it will not be possible to compensate for this shortage with machine guns and artillery: the handbrakes are less than a quarter, the guns are a little more than a quarter of the state.
                        But this is the situation in the new divisions of the Metropolis... In the Kwantung Army, the percentage of "old" divisions was, EMNIP, higher.
                      3. +1
                        2 August 2021 23: 30
                        And yet, in the 41st, the USSR stopped the Wehrmacht and others like them in this state, and in the 45m, the imperial army split like a knife through butter
                      4. +1
                        3 August 2021 03: 33
                        The Red Army has never been in such a position.
                      5. +1
                        3 August 2021 03: 32
                        Unfortunately, memoirs are edited, and often written not by those who are considered to be the author. Recently, I got hooked on reading from the historian Isaev Alexei Valerievich. A very interesting assessment of events. With data on both sides. And quite often, shell hunger is not the main reason for defeats, but the ability to maneuver, so that at the right time, in the right place, there are material and human reserves, there were big problems with this. Tractors, tractors, cars ... an acute shortage of transport.
                      6. 0
                        3 August 2021 22: 15
                        Quote: Alexey RA
                        By 1945, the Kwantung Army was indeed far from the same as in 1941-1942.

                        And what was wrong there?
                        Land battles did not seem to be observed, a couple of army-level operations. Well, Okinawa is something frontline. And that's all.
                        And where are the losses? We are not touching the fleet, but there was a significant fight there.
                        And overland?
                        And if a couple of divisions were taken, then it will take 3-4 months to restore the newly formed ones to the previous level (they had this time).
                        For some reason, some represent the Kwantung Army as a bunch of disabled people. Not guys, it isn't. And they were already buried, the Germans would be envious.
                3. 0
                  2 August 2021 15: 50
                  Oops. Another interpretation of WWII. Now about the Japanese?
            2. +1
              2 August 2021 20: 01
              In the "Platoon".
              I spent almost three months in Saigon (Ho Chi Minh, if officially), went on an excursion to the "jungle" type. So well, I'll tell you nafig. At +40 in the shade, and with that humidity, I imagined myself in a "harness", but in an armored vehicle, and to stagger awaiting a shot or some other ambush ... Not to mention the fact that you are constantly "devoured" by all kinds of mosquito mosquitoes are only smaller and faster) and another blood-sucking bastard ..
        2. +2
          2 August 2021 16: 26
          Some Omerigaheroi! Where our calves are chasing wolves omerikanskymy! All sveta warriors, victors of Vietnam, Afghanistan and Grenada! Not like the Russian Vani, the winners of all sorts of different Turks, Tatars, Swedes, Prussians, Frenchmen, German fascists. Yves-A - Nov and Li-Si-Qing are heroic Vietnamese pilots who beat the Omerikans in the air and on the ground.
      2. +14
        2 August 2021 13: 48
        Quote: Kayala
        For them it is wildness to sleep on straw in unheated earthlings. They are generally accustomed to fighting from afar, having previously razed everything to the ground with bombs. It is in the movies that they are heroes, but in fact they are wet chickens.

        You are confusing today's Americans with those of that time. If it was necessary, then the flight and technical staff of the Yankees in WWII could live in tents on a coconut plantation regularly flooded with rain.


        However, the American historian also suffers from the same, trying to assess the then living conditions of Soviet front-line aviation units, based either on the current ideas about how everything should be in the Air Force, or on the living conditions of the crews of the then strategic aviation.
        1. +6
          2 August 2021 13: 53
          So we are talking about an assessment of the conditions of that time from the point of view of the modern American man in the street.

          It's strange that he forgot to mention the drunken commissars with a Mauser ...
          1. +3
            2 August 2021 13: 59
            Quote: Kayala
            about drunken commissars with a Mauser ...

            Mauser was chic
          2. Alf
            +3
            2 August 2021 18: 49
            Quote: Kayala
            It's strange that he forgot to mention the drunken commissars with a Mauser ...

            And one rifle for three. And detachments. And penal battalions. This will continue ...
        2. -7
          2 August 2021 13: 58
          I am more inclined to the version that this expert saw the army at parades, but communicated exclusively with the officers ... Consequently, his knowledge of the life of the army is very superficial, and is based on his idea of ​​what kind of army should be.
          1. +2
            2 August 2021 14: 03
            EksperD is you, and I didn’t eat up in a grocery store for two years, and I was training ankle boots in the Caucasus.
            1. -22
              2 August 2021 14: 06
              what do you need ?! not talking to you and not discussing you ...
              1. +10
                2 August 2021 14: 07
                Not for you, but for you.
              2. +2
                2 August 2021 17: 54
                Quote: Voletsky
                what do you need ?! not talking to you and not discussing you ...

                and without rudeness religion does not allow you to communicate?
                1. -3
                  2 August 2021 17: 55
                  what hi, such an answer
            2. AUL
              +2
              2 August 2021 14: 39
              Quote: Kayala
              EksperD is you, and I didn’t eat up in a grocery store for two years, and I was training ankle boots in the Caucasus.

              Vitalia, calm down already!
              1. +3
                2 August 2021 14: 42
                My name is actually Alexei. And I didn't worry to settle down.
          2. +1
            2 August 2021 14: 40
            Quote: Voletsky
            I am more inclined to the version that this expert saw the army at parades, but communicated exclusively with the officers ... Consequently, his knowledge of the life of the army is very superficial, and is based on his idea of ​​what kind of army should be.

            Rather, his knowledge of the life of the army is formed from the ideas about the life of the current Air Force.
            In all American army jokes about the arms and types of the Air Force, they appear as a kind of sybarites who take out and put a five-star hotel (at the other end of the comparison are the Marines, who are usually pointed at a piece of a bare field and said "settle down" smile ).
            1. -12
              2 August 2021 14: 53
              Well, as I said, he communicates with the officers, so he comes up with nothing; not poured like shit in pits and then buried it and continue to do it
        3. +11
          2 August 2021 15: 14
          And the breakfast of coffee and rolls is doubtful.
          It is more like the Germans or the Americans themselves.
          I think there was tea. A substitute for chicory or barley coffee. Natural coffee was a rarity for the front-line dining room !!!
          1. +1
            3 August 2021 12: 51
            I was especially touched about the pilots' black bread ... I wonder how these pilots fought with volvulus in flight ... In the morning, thick meat broth and tea or milk, according to ..possibilities, normal lunch with chocolate, dinner with salted, smoked food lard
            1. 0
              3 August 2021 13: 27
              The flight crew were forbidden to eat anything that could cause bloating of the gastrointestinal tract - black bread, cabbage, legumes, etc.
        4. 0
          2 August 2021 20: 03
          historian
          I would put the word historian in quotation marks. We also have a lot of such "historians" who measure that calamus according to modern realities. and they themselves are heavier than a spoon and "mouse" in their hands holding nothing.
      3. +5
        2 August 2021 16: 14
        I met the pilots of the Second World War, there were no problems with supplies and living conditions. Another thing is that during the war several flight crews were replaced.
      4. 0
        4 August 2021 12: 36
        The author apparently wonders how their troops will fight without Coca-Cola, toilet paper and the Internet. No smoothies for transgender people and soft drugs to attract contractors ...

        This is war! And it is called the Great Patriotic War for a reason! Everything superficial falls off, it remains only to win or perish, defending the Motherland. And it is not his business to climb with his dirty slanderous fabrications into the soul of a Russian man ...
        Better let the author delve into his past, there you can also find "delicious"!
    2. +21
      2 August 2021 13: 46
      Quote: Voletsky
      did not understand what the article is about

      by the way about how information about the history of the Second World War is presented abroad
      this is just a particular example of which breakthrough in fact - this is how they are brainwashed: unfortunately this is a long game and they are good at technology. The little ones are still praying for Solzhenitsyn, and now the bulk will be raised to the rank of "holy day of democracy." There is a lot of work here and on all fronts
    3. +7
      2 August 2021 13: 49
      From which country do you speak a lie? From Israel or Ukraine?
      1. -17
        2 August 2021 13: 59
        False ?! Where ?!
        Do you play balabola ?!
        1. 0
          2 August 2021 16: 48
          Why is there no conscience in people like you? Where do such shameless people come from? Do not tell me? How do you live with this all your life, like a petty thief?
      2. +1
        2 August 2021 16: 14
        Quote: Finches
        From which country do you speak a lie? From Israel or Ukraine?

        Is he (a native of Ukraine?) From Ukraine. Although, possibly from Canada. "Letak" (litak) - a plane in Ukrainian. The word jumped out automatically. Judging by the mistakes, the language began to be forgotten.
        1. +1
          2 August 2021 16: 29
          Quote: Vladimir Mashkov
          Is he (a native of Ukraine?) From Ukraine. Although, possibly from Canada. "Letak" (litak) - a plane in Ukrainian.

          He is not a Ukrainian, he is a svidoomerikanoukr.
      3. +1
        2 August 2021 17: 38
        Most likely from Canada. There is a large two-tiered Petliura-Bandera diaspora.
    4. +13
      2 August 2021 14: 08
      Quote: Voletsky
      the fact that the summer people of the USSR were inferior to the Germans,

      in what period ?!
      the fact that at the beginning of the war it is normal for the Germans by 41 had 2 years of war experience
      1. -18
        2 August 2021 14: 17
        up to 43 on average

        and the council had no experience ?!
        Spain, Finland are not rolling?
        1. +8
          2 August 2021 15: 20
          They forgot to attribute the "business trips" of Soviet pilots to China and the battles in the sky over the Khalkhin-Gol River.
          These are all battles at the military district level. And with battles in the skies of Poland, France, the Netherlands, Denmark, Britain have less "weight". Although it was necessary to draw the right conclusions from them.
          The French did not draw the correct conclusions from the development of technology and received the weapons with which they "went to peace" with the "Teutonic hordes"!
          1. -13
            2 August 2021 15: 23
            Quote: hohol95
            They forgot to attribute the "business trips" of Soviet pilots to China and the battles in the sky over the Khalkhin-Gol River.

            Yes, exactly, there Zhukov distinguished himself ... just recently I read about it.
            Quote: hohol95
            Although it was necessary to draw the right conclusions from them.

            Duc about that and speech
            1. +6
              2 August 2021 16: 05
              The point is that there was no time and money for all the "conclusions". We proceeded from our own capabilities.
              1. -5
                2 August 2021 16: 08
                Quote: hohol95
                The point is that there was no time and money for all the "conclusions". We proceeded from our own capabilities.

                mmm ... not really, our "valiant allies" were in no hurry to help us with a number of technologies, and in some cases they even directly sabotaged our development.
                From which it logically follows that yes - the technique in some cases was seriously inferior to the enemy.
                1. +8
                  2 August 2021 16: 15
                  The "valiant" French and British generally wanted to bomb the oil fields and oil reserves located in Baku and its environs.
                  And the air travel has already been prepared.
                  Only the "comrades" from the Third Reich decided that it was time to deal with the "Gali roosters" and went to war on France.
                  1. -7
                    2 August 2021 16: 20
                    why are you insulting the French ?! These "respected characters" did not stop "helping" us, and briskly joined the blue division
                    1. +9
                      2 August 2021 17: 32
                      The French were not enrolled in the Blue Division. The Blue Division was sent to the Eastern Front by Francisco Franco to get rid of his criminals and get rid of the Fuhrer. Spain, if that.
                      1. +3
                        2 August 2021 17: 41
                        Yes, I'm sorry, I don't know why, but I also associate the French with blue
                      2. +4
                        2 August 2021 19: 20
                        638th Infantry Regiment. 3000 French. It was commanded by Colonel Roger Labon.
                        He suffered losses in the battles near Moscow in the fall of 1941. Sent back to France. After rest, it was used to fight Soviet partisans.
                        The remnants of the regiment were poured into the 8th SS assault division, which consisted mainly of the French.
                        33rd SS Brigade (SS Charlemagne Division) Formed in 1944.
                      3. 0
                        2 August 2021 20: 02
                        Quote: Boris Epstein
                        The Blue Division was sent to the Eastern Front by Francisco Franco to get rid of his criminals and get rid of the Fuhrer.

                        Not from criminals. And from the ultra-right comrades-in-arms from their own Phalanx, who dreamed of finally pouring blood over Spain (Madrid did not control the whole country even in the early 40s), and for whom even Franco was on the left.
                        So the caudillo found an elegant move: if you want to continue fighting the Reds, welcome to the Eastern Front as a volunteer. And in Spain it will be quieter, and the threat to power can be removed without purging the party members, shifting this matter to the Reds, and relations with the Reich will improve (after the failure of negotiations on joining the Axis and the storming of Gibraltar). smile
                      4. +1
                        3 August 2021 09: 16
                        And from the criminals too. But the fact that Franco needed to excuse himself from the Fuhrer, and he did not want to fight seriously, is a fact.
                    2. +1
                      2 August 2021 17: 39
                      Point to an offensive word?
                      And they were not obliged to help us.
                      Every man for himself.
                      And the "Gallic Rooster", as a symbol of France, has been used for several hundred years!
                      We got used to the image of a bear! And they are accustomed to the conversion of a bird, pugnacious in temper, but announcing the rising of the sun.
                    3. +3
                      2 August 2021 19: 25

                      The German eagle nibbles a French rooster.
            2. 0
              2 August 2021 16: 08
              The question is natural - did the American commanders from the Air Force draw conclusions from the data received from the pilots who had recruited into the Kuomintang Air Force?
              1. +5
                2 August 2021 18: 28
                Quote: hohol95
                The question is natural - did the American commanders from the Air Force draw conclusions from the data received from the pilots who had recruited into the Kuomintang Air Force?

                I remember the wonderful story with the "Zero", when intelligence simply did not believe the data on the new Japanese fighter received from Shannolt ("Flying Tigers").

                However, these guys did not even believe the information received from the aviation assistant of the US naval attaché Lieutenant Commander Stephen Jeric:
                The first rumors about a new Japanese fighter began to reach China back in 1940. Imagine the astonishment of the US Naval Attaché Aviation Assistant, Lieutenant Commander Stephen Jurika, when he, having attended the annual military sports festival in January 1941 (where the Japanese navy and army traditionally measured the length of their barrels), discovered this newest aircraft, as they say, in nature.
                And not just put on public display (and with the opportunity to inspect even the cockpit), but also kindly provided with a plate with the main flight performance characteristics, including weight, engine power and speed indicators. The diplomat with the pilot's "wings" on his jacket conscientiously rewrote all the numbers, visually estimated the dimensions of the fighter and the wing area, assessed the armament, skin structure, instruments in the cockpit, and then also observed the car in action when it competed in the sky with army fighters. Then he sent a detailed report to the Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI).

                However, Stephen Jerica experienced even greater amazement a couple of months later when he received a response to his report from ONI. As he later recalled - the first and last response in his entire two-year service in Tokyo. The angry superiors strongly advised the Lieutenant Commander to no longer send such nonsense and misinformation to Washington. American aviation experts unanimously stated that a machine with such a set of characteristics simply cannot exist in nature (especially with regard to the ratio of dimensions and weight, as well as the declared flight range). Even more absurd they found the very idea that "backward Asians", capable at best of producing deteriorated copies of obsolete Western aircraft, were able to build a fighter superior to the latest machines of the US Navy.
                © midnike

                However, it was difficult to expect otherwise from the country, which officially stated that:
                ... the Japanese "did not independently design any of the aircraft they are currently producing for the needs of the armed forces."

                And in popular magazines the idea was circulated that:
                A cursory glance at the latest Japanese military aircraft is enough for American aviation specialists to conclude that they are all either obsolete or obsolete.
                1. Alf
                  +1
                  2 August 2021 18: 58
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  Quote: hohol95
                  The question is natural - did the American commanders from the Air Force draw conclusions from the data received from the pilots who had recruited into the Kuomintang Air Force?

                  I remember the wonderful story with the "Zero", when intelligence simply did not believe the data on the new Japanese fighter received from Shannolt ("Flying Tigers").

                  However, these guys did not even believe the information received from the aviation assistant of the US naval attaché Lieutenant Commander Stephen Jeric:
                  The first rumors about a new Japanese fighter began to reach China back in 1940. Imagine the astonishment of the US Naval Attaché Aviation Assistant, Lieutenant Commander Stephen Jurika, when he, having attended the annual military sports festival in January 1941 (where the Japanese navy and army traditionally measured the length of their barrels), discovered this newest aircraft, as they say, in nature.
                  And not just put on public display (and with the opportunity to inspect even the cockpit), but also kindly provided with a plate with the main flight performance characteristics, including weight, engine power and speed indicators. The diplomat with the pilot's "wings" on his jacket conscientiously rewrote all the numbers, visually estimated the dimensions of the fighter and the wing area, assessed the armament, skin structure, instruments in the cockpit, and then also observed the car in action when it competed in the sky with army fighters. Then he sent a detailed report to the Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI).

                  However, Stephen Jerica experienced even greater amazement a couple of months later when he received a response to his report from ONI. As he later recalled - the first and last response in his entire two-year service in Tokyo. The angry superiors strongly advised the Lieutenant Commander to no longer send such nonsense and misinformation to Washington. American aviation experts unanimously stated that a machine with such a set of characteristics simply cannot exist in nature (especially with regard to the ratio of dimensions and weight, as well as the declared flight range). Even more absurd they found the very idea that "backward Asians", capable at best of producing deteriorated copies of obsolete Western aircraft, were able to build a fighter superior to the latest machines of the US Navy.
                  © midnike

                  However, it was difficult to expect otherwise from the country, which officially stated that:
                  ... the Japanese "did not independently design any of the aircraft they are currently producing for the needs of the armed forces."

                  And in popular magazines the idea was circulated that:
                  A cursory glance at the latest Japanese military aircraft is enough for American aviation specialists to conclude that they are all either obsolete or obsolete.

                  And it was also argued that, due to their small stature and fragile physique, the Japanese have thinner capillaries in the brain, as a result of which they are physically unable to perform maneuvers with overload.
                  1. +4
                    2 August 2021 19: 06
                    Quote: Alf
                    And it was also argued that, due to their small stature and fragile physique, the Japanese have thinner capillaries in the brain, as a result of which they are physically unable to perform maneuvers with overload.

                    Plus myopia and an abnormal structure of the inner ear. smile
                    The famous popularizer of naval history, Fletcher Pratt, in his book "Sea Power and Modern Warfare" also wrote with absolute seriousness that the Japanese, in principle, cannot be good pilots. As befits any racist constructions, this statement had a scientific basis in the form of "physiological features inherent in this race", such as myopia inherent in all "Asians", as well as the wrong structure of the inner ear, which is responsible for the vestibular apparatus. In the summer of 1941, an article of similar content was published by the serious professional magazine Aviation Review.
                    © midnike
                    In short, only WASP can fly. smile
                    1. Alf
                      +1
                      2 August 2021 19: 49
                      Quote: Alexey RA
                      In short, only WASP can fly.

                      The first half of the war showed that they could not ...
                2. +2
                  2 August 2021 19: 06
                  A similar amazement to the American "aviation public" was probably caused by Soviet flights over the North Pole in cars built in the USSR itself.
                  If the Japanese were considered capable only of "work as a photocopier", then Soviet aviation engineers were generally regarded as "something mythical and non-existent"!
                  1. +2
                    2 August 2021 19: 30
                    Quote: hohol95
                    A similar amazement to the American "aviation public" was probably caused by Soviet flights over the North Pole in cars built in the USSR itself.

                    Hardly. This was already the second long-range flight of the ANT-25 - before that there was the island of Udd.
                    Quote: hohol95
                    If the Japanese were considered capable only of "work as a photocopier", then Soviet aviation engineers were generally regarded as "something mythical and non-existent"!

                    No-no-no, the USSR managed to impress the foreign lands with its TB-1, and then TB-3. As a last resort, the Yankees could ask Sikorsky - about the same Tupolev, Polikarpov and Grigorovich. smile
                    1. +1
                      2 August 2021 19: 48
                      Udd Island is the territory of the USSR.
                      But the Americans were able to see with their own eyes the Soviet ANT-25 only after Chkalov's flight.
                    2. Alf
                      +1
                      2 August 2021 19: 50
                      Quote: Alexey RA
                      Quote: hohol95
                      A similar amazement to the American "aviation public" was probably caused by Soviet flights over the North Pole in cars built in the USSR itself.

                      Hardly. This was already the second long-range flight of the ANT-25 - before that there was the island of Udd.

                      Did the Americans know about this flight?
                      1. +1
                        2 August 2021 20: 10
                        Quote: Alf
                        Did the Americans know about this flight?

                        Should be.
                        First, the crew was given the GSS - and at that time it was a "piece" award, the presentation of which was widely covered in the press.
                        Secondly, the ANT-25 "Stalin Route" that performed the flight was shown in Paris in the same 1936 (in the photo - in the background).

                        Thanks for the photo. deruluft
                      2. Alf
                        +1
                        2 August 2021 20: 26
                        Quote: Alexey RA
                        Should be.

                        The awarding of the SCAC in the USSR, indeed, was widely covered. The only question is, have you read Soviet newspapers and listened to Soviet radio in America?
                        And about the exhibition, if my memory serves me right, at that time in the USA it was believed that everything Soviet-bought over the hill. There was some truth in this, just remember the M-25, M-100 ...
            3. +2
              2 August 2021 17: 35
              Proper names in both Russian and Ukrainian are written with a capital letter.
              1. -5
                2 August 2021 18: 04
                ok borenka, teach me completely :) and don't forget about zhi-shi
            4. +1
              2 August 2021 17: 57
              Quote: Voletsky
              just recently read about it.

              already interesting
          2. +4
            2 August 2021 18: 15
            Quote: hohol95
            They forgot to attribute the "business trips" of Soviet pilots to China and the battles in the sky over the Khalkhin-Gol River.

            So Khalkhin Gol is in many ways Spanish personnel.
            Quote: hohol95
            These are all battles at the military district level. And with battles in the skies of Poland, France, the Netherlands, Denmark, Britain have less "weight". Although it was necessary to draw the right conclusions from them.

            And what's the point in those conclusions, if in practice there is no gasoline or training machines? sad
            In order to accelerate the training of flight personnel, it is necessary to stop interruptions in the supply of gasoline. As a rule, every year, comrade People’s Commissar, at the very height of flights in the summer, starting from the month of July, and sometimes from the month of June, the supply of gas stops, parts switch to hungry rations, making flights to the better months because of this for flights (June, July, August). This situation is further intolerable. You won’t learn to fly without gas. The normal supply of gasoline starts again from the month of October, when, in fact, flights according to weather conditions are already beginning to collapse, and the airfields are soaking.
            © Novikov A.A., Major General of Aviation, Air Force Commander of the Leningrad Military District
            With a large number of young flight personnel (there are only 823 people in the district), it is imperative to have a larger number of training vehicles. We now have such a situation that there are 4 pilots for one UTI-35 aircraft. UTI-4 flies for only 45 minutes, after which additional charging is required. Thus, at maximum stress during the day on this plane, you can take out or check the training of no more than 10 people. This means that the remaining 25 people are waiting for the next day, the next line.
            Thus, the lack of training aircraft lengthens the training time for the flight crew, does not make it possible to most carefully train and train pilots, and in time and systematically check their piloting technique.
            © he
            1. 0
              2 August 2021 19: 51
              So I wrote that the conclusions were made. But to the best of the country's financial and industrial capabilities!
              It's good to be rich and healthy and it's bad to be poor and sick ...
            2. +1
              2 August 2021 19: 55
              The "Spanish" personnel were brought in due to the inability of the "Mongol" to fight on equal terms with the enemy who had experience of a big war in China.
              And the material part was quickly updated.
              We started with I-15, and then sent I-153 and cannon I-16.
        2. +1
          2 August 2021 17: 57
          you here wrote something about your knowledge, and so they tend to zero
          can you indicate what percentage of pilots went through these conflicts ?!
          1. -2
            2 August 2021 18: 06
            MY COMMENTS 30

            you take any and refute, and I'll see
            1. +2
              2 August 2021 18: 09
              the first thing I don't remember is that we drank broodershaft, so try not to poke
              second, they pointed out your complete misunderstanding of the topic and if you did not understand this, then these are your problems
              1. -2
                2 August 2021 18: 24
                dear, if you start with familiarity, do not be surprised that they start poking you.
                Then you are "yes you", where I am wrong and claim that what does not correspond to the truth
                1. +1
                  2 August 2021 19: 39
                  I don't even want to write, but I will write
                  and the council had no experience ?!
                  Spain, Finland are not rolling?

                  after such analytics, do you still have questions?
                2. +1
                  2 August 2021 19: 39
                  Quote: Voletsky
                  if you start with familiarities

                  and where did I start with this?
    5. +5
      2 August 2021 14: 15
      Quote: Voletsky
      the fact that the summer people of the USSR were inferior to the German ones, well, how would it be common knowledge

      The fact that the Soviet pilots defeated your notorious Luftwaffe is unknown to you alone, Svidomo. Then Goering's "experts" shied away from our La-5FN and Yak-3 and preferred not to mess with them.
      1. -22
        2 August 2021 14: 20
        Quote: Piramidon
        That one hundred Soviet pilots defeated your notorious "Luftwaffe" is unknown to you alone, Svidomo.

        so, and defeated ?!
        And nothing that the account of losses is not in favor of the USSR ?!
        You at least read the school history curriculum ignorant
        1. +7
          2 August 2021 14: 30
          And that Germany defeated the USSR? Or what do you think is a defeat?

          You yourself would not interfere with the school curriculum.
          1. -21
            2 August 2021 14: 34
            The score 12: 0 is devastating; but let's say 6: 5/4 is not.

            And in this case, the losses of the USSR exceed the German ones:

            so remember the canopy gun, the victory over Germany was given to us at a great price, we laid down millions of lives at the front and millions endured unbearable conditions to rivet weapons to the front.
            1. +9
              2 August 2021 14: 40
              Excuse me, are you generally sane? Or did the pan squeeze out the last brains? The losses of the Red Army and the Wehrmacht are quite comparable to themselves. And if we add the losses of the Romanians, Hungarians, Finns and other satellites, then their losses will be higher than ours. This time.
              Two. And who taught you to talk about victory from the point of view of who lost more? In my opinion, the Victory flag was flying over the Reichstag, not over the Kremlin! Or is it not so?
              1. -19
                2 August 2021 14: 45
                Total losses of the Luftwaffe on the Soviet-German front amounted to 5263 aircraft destroyed plus 1806 damaged, and a total of 7 combat vehicles


                For the period from 22.06.1941. on 10.05.1945/106/400 The USSR Air Force was lost: 46 100/XNUMX XNUMX (in brackets - combat losses) aircraft.


                Further data is required ?! Or do you still lament the textbook
                1. +6
                  2 August 2021 14: 52
                  How poor are you, who won in the end?

                  And do not read German newspapers, otherwise they will write there that the Germans had no losses at all. Here's just a paradox, but where did all the German soldiers go by the end of the war, that the defense of Germany itself had to involve children, old people and cripples?
                  And where did the Luftwaffe go by 1945?

                  So you need to learn. However, as a Svidomo, apparently nothing will help you.
                  1. -17
                    2 August 2021 14: 58
                    Are You Normal ?!

                    You started rubbing the game, that the Americans were on a stick, then you asserted yourself that the hero of the Rambo from the Caucasian fronts; began to assert that Soviet technology was always superior to everyone and in everything.

                    And now you ask me about the results of WWII ?!
                    1. -3
                      2 August 2021 16: 09
                      Quote: Voletsky
                      began to assert that Soviet technology was always superior to everyone and in everything

                      Yes, such comrades have not even read Pokryshkin's memoirs. And he bitterly made a note in the margins "It was not so." If they had read it, even in the 80s before the openness-publicity, they would have made completely different conclusions. How was the beating of the Fuhrer eagles from Stalin's falcons. Or they wouldn't have done it then. Not matured yet. Not all schoolchildren at school adequately understand the works of Dostoevsky-Tolstoy being studied. It's bad that now it still does not reach
                      1. -7
                        2 August 2021 17: 37
                        Quote: Machnamh
                        Yes, such comrades have not even read Pokryshkin's memoirs

                        What are you, according to the logic of the scumbags, the cobra is shit and not a letak (alo scarecrow, I wrote it again), but Pokryshkin is wrong.

                        Although a lot of people reviled the cobra, obviously the taste and color of the pencils are different.
                2. +4
                  2 August 2021 17: 24
                  Quote: Voletsky
                  Total losses of the Luftwaffe on the Soviet-German front amounted to 5263 aircraft destroyed plus 1806 damaged, and a total of 7 combat vehicles

                  Incorrect, the source is the figure of the Luftwaffe's combat losses in 1942.

                  According to these data, the losses of the Luftwaffe are: on the Eastern Front for the period February - December 1942 2 destroyed aircraft directly in battle, 955 aircraft lost "outside the influence of the enemy" and 2 damaged aircraft. The total losses of the Luftwaffe on the Soviet-German front amounted to 308 aircraft destroyed plus 1806 damaged, and a total of 5263 combat vehicles, which is 1806% of all Luftwaffe losses in 7 in relation to all theaters. On all other fronts, 069 aircraft were lost irrevocably and 58 damaged, or 1942 combat vehicles. There are no data on training units for 3.
                3. 0
                  3 August 2021 15: 54
                  I agree with you, the victory came at a high price, but your data on the losses of Germany are not correct, on the Eastern Front the Germans lost 56800 aircraft minus 20 percent of the crash, a total of 45440 combat losses. On all fronts, the Germans lost 85650 combat aircraft. 57 thousand Soviet pilots were killed, 88300 aircraft plus 18100 non-combat aircraft, in battles and from air defense losses of 45000 combat aircraft and about 9000 non-combat aircraft. Pilots died in the Red Army 35 thousand, during the war years 44093 pilots were trained, pilot training 30 hours, the Germans at the beginning of the war up to 400 hours. It is not surprising that non-combat losses were up to 50 percent, plus 3000 aircraft were burned on the ground in the early days of the war. Zhukov does not write about this; in fairness, many serious historians do not consider Zhukov's memoirs to be strictly documentary literature. Everything written is in the open press, and before you write to each other various nonsense and insults, read once again the history of Your Country.
            2. 0
              3 August 2021 15: 56
              not you, but us, people like you worked as policemen for the Nazis
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    6. +11
      2 August 2021 14: 21
      Quote: Voletsky
      did not understand what the article was about.
      the fact that the letaki of the USSR were inferior to the German ones, well, how would it be common knowledge.

      You write as if it is an absolute truth.
      In terms of combat experience and raids in the initial period of the war, yes, they were inferior. According to the conditions of everyday life, it is possible, but not always and not everywhere. Nutrition is generally a very controversial issue.
      But at the turn of 43-44. in the Red Army, the number of experienced combat pilots seemed to be on the same level as the Luftwaffe. In the final period of the war, the initial rate of the Germans on superprofessionals played with them the same cruel joke as in all other theaters - ordinary newcomers came to replace the leaving professionals and they already faced a superior mass of well-trained Soviet pilots who received not only the latest technology, but also the technique its competent application. And most importantly, now the Germans had to lose both territory and equipment, and, in the end, the initiative of hostilities. The same mechanism worked in many ways in the war between the United States and Japan.
      So, not all "USSR lettuces" were inferior to the German ones. And this is really a fact.

      However, I will still support your almost rhetorical indignation about the meaning of this article. In essence, it is about the impressions of an American. Not about facts, not about events, not about causes, consequences, trends, patterns, but about the subjective perception of some not too well-informed individual. To consider this publication about the publication should, in my opinion, solely as a kind of content filler.
      1. -20
        2 August 2021 14: 31
        My friend ...

        I wrote the facts, and you are pulling something.
        At the beginning of the war, they conceded, at the end of the war the Germans fizzled out, and we dispersed ... But after all, they were inferior, and a significant period up to 43 years.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. +8
          2 August 2021 15: 18
          Quote: Voletsky
          I wrote the facts

          Your "facts" from your USA-manuals. This, according to your feces, is already clear to everyone.
      2. +1
        2 August 2021 22: 42
        Quote: Shuttle
        So, not all "USSR lettuces" were inferior to the German ones. And this is really a fact.

        And I will add the fact: Safonov Boris Feoktistovich! 20 (according to other sources much more) shot down by the summer of 1942! The first twice Hero of the Soviet Union, for the Second World War! And "the cherry on the cake" started the war on the I-16 and most of the victories on this plane! And he died in the British and there is an opinion that for technical reasons!
    7. -4
      2 August 2021 14: 35
      Well, why not) American and British pilots without cable or satellite TV, Coca-Cola and blackjack with shl ... Refused to fight and saved up their strength right up to November 41)))
      1. -1
        2 August 2021 15: 22
        Quote: Anchorite
        Well, why not) American and British pilots without cable or satellite TV, Coca-Cola and blackjack with shl ... Refused to fight and saved up their strength right up to November 41)))

        And then they refused to open a "second front" right up to 1944 without diapers (because it is stupid) laughing
        1. +6
          2 August 2021 15: 49

          They hoped to the last that the artist Schickelgruber, pumped to the level of the Fuhrer of all "enlightened Europe", would overthrow the Soviet Union of "savages and barbarians")
          And there they realized that the pie of post-war Europe could be divided without them))) and sharply spoke out "for those who win")))
      2. 0
        2 August 2021 18: 31
        Quote: Anchorite
        Well, why not) American and British pilots without cable or satellite TV, Coca-Cola and blackjack with shl ... Refused to fight and saved up their strength right up to November 41)))

        Uh-huh ... and in the second half of 1940 over Britain, red men from Mars fought for the British. smile
    8. +6
      2 August 2021 14: 39
      When I was just a kid (almost 60 years ago) I heard from my father's colleague (a participant in the Second World War) about the Kiev maneuvers of 1935.
      The orderlies of British officers sailed far from the banks of the Dnieper, took water and filled rubber baths on the bank through gauze.
      Our officers and political commissars who swam with the soldiers in the river were in DIFFERENCE.
      And he was shocked that the German soldiers and officers were eating together.
      Indeed, hardships and hardships are not for the Anglo-Saxons.
      And ask how many planes the best ace of the allies shot down.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. +9
          2 August 2021 15: 54
          United Kingdom: Marmaduke Pattle (51)
          USA: Richard Bong (40)
          France: Pierre Closterman (33)

          Did they have the same brutal victory confirmation system as ours? Or like the Germans: "you also say that you can 8 times a night"

          And change your fake face on your avatar. In terms of literacy, you are a typical jerk.
          1. -3
            2 August 2021 23: 29
            machine gun data, eyewitness accounts. For example, despite the "brutal" counting system in the USSR Air Force, machine guns began to be installed en masse only in 43, and oddly enough after that, the effectiveness dropped sharply, and the consumption of ammunition rose sharply.
        2. The comment was deleted.
          1. -9
            2 August 2021 17: 08
            boy wipe the snot, I'm more interested in who raised you than what happened 70 years ago, because there are past past, and the greyhound hat-gun is here now :)
            1. +5
              2 August 2021 18: 13
              boy wipe the snot, I'm more interested in who raised you than what happened 70 years ago, because there are past past, and the greyhound hat-gun is here now :)

              In only one this Topic:
              - familiar enough from there
              -- in other like modern Russian ...
              -- to you no one does not prohibit ...
              - such no where did not met
              - Spain, Finland not toаare they?
              - the technique in a number of cases was seriously inferiorо the enemy.
              - endured unbearable conditions what would rivet
              - galloperidolus ?! (galaperidol has nothing to do with galls)
              And I did not pay attention to typos, punctuation marks, etc. The above errors are typical of a creature who has never read a book. So who's got snot?
              1. -10
                2 August 2021 18: 20
                you have a child of snot, you were not too lazy and went through all my points in this topic; mistakes and mistakes. Well, you are like that woman from the anecdote that "I am already following you for 2 quarters to tell me that you are not interesting to me" ... well, honey, the devil is not interesting with you, so not interesting :)
            2. +4
              2 August 2021 18: 40
              Quote: Voletsky
              boy snot wipe

              Do you think you insulted, chubby lad? Get out of here, Svidomo misunderstanding, I already have grandchildren older than you.
              1. -8
                2 August 2021 18: 45
                and also do not shine with intellect? :) this is clearly genetic, try a vasectomy on the whole family ... so that the poor kind was interrupted, and people did not have to blush.

                and yes, yes, from the Ukrainians, what you see everywhere ... maybe dementia is all the same ?! It's just very similar, well, you fucking provoke, while never once indicating where I'm wrong, "only but they have it."
                1. +3
                  2 August 2021 18: 52
                  Quote: Voletsky
                  and also do not shine with intelligence

                  I see you, Svidomo, consider yourself an awesome intellectual fool Do not burst with conceit.
                  1. -6
                    2 August 2021 19: 03
                    well, of course, yes, you’re not smart, and you wrote me down as Russophobes and Ukrainians ...
                    If they poke you on the fact that we almost crap when we put germany in cancer, and tyt as a little girl assert we are all the hardest and will tear everyone apart ... Well, the question arises, who are you Rimbaud ?! what boasts in front of me the achievements of ancestors, how are you connected with this ?! Who are you at all, to assert that who is a sissy or not, and who cost what and what hardships.
          2. +1
            2 August 2021 18: 35
            Quote: Piramidon
            Moreover, unas, the victory was recorded only when it was confirmed either by ground services, or by those who flew in the group who observed it

            That also did not get rid of postscripts. sad
            As a result of the insistent demands of Colonel FEDOROV, the commander of 6 IAK presented an award sheet for conferring the title of Hero of the Soviet Union on Colonel FEDOROV. When considering the award material in January 1944, I was refused representation.
            In the month of February 1944, the commander of the 6th IAK re-presented the award sheet with the application of certificates of downed enemy aircraft. Considering the award sheet and the certificates attached to it, I had a doubt about the correctness of the latter, i.e. whether certificates for the same downed planes were issued, only in different parts and persons. Having asked the Commander of the Air Force 3 on the merits of this question, I received an answer as I had previously assumed that Colonel FEDOROV showed exceptional dishonesty and fraud, attributing to himself twice the same aircraft shot down by him.
            © Lieutenant General Rudenko
            Former inspector of piloting technique of the 3rd Air Army and commander of a group of fines, Lieutenant Colonel, now Colonel FEDOROV Ivan Evgrafovich, during his entire stay on the Kalinin Front, according to combat reports and accounting data, shot down 8 enemy aircraft, which he was told by the Army Headquarters on March 5, 1943 and was Help issued. Confirming the reliability of this certificate, I inform you that all other certificates of the flight personnel of 157 and 163 fighter regiments and the GROMOV telegram confirm the same aircraft that are indicated in the final certificate of 5.3.1943 on the combat work of FEDOROV on the Kalinin Front.
            © Aviation Lieutenant General Papivin
          3. -2
            2 August 2021 23: 33
            If you moderate the level of bile, then the same M. Pattle died in 41, having on account, according to modest estimates and confirmed by the surviving archives of the Luftwaffe, about 50 aircraft, although many historians are inclined that this list is not complete.
    9. +5
      2 August 2021 14: 57
      and the service of American pilots during the war years, apparently, was accompanied exclusively by joy and sparkling purity ... all around there was crystal, fine china, fragrant beauties ... one concern - condoms and so that the whiskey would not run out ...
      "Right now, coffee with a bun, but on the stove with a fool ..."
      1. +2
        2 August 2021 18: 41
        Quote: den3080
        all around crystal, fine china, fragrant beauties ... one concern - condoms and so that the whiskey does not run out ...

        But John does not have time to enjoy all this, as follows a blow on the shoulder: "John, get up - we are being fired upon!" And instead of all this splendor, the painfully familiar tent with a mud floor, soaked through, appears before John's eyes, from which he starts through the swamp to the nearest shelter. Because there are 14 "Japanese aircraft operating at the airfield. smile
    10. +5
      2 August 2021 16: 31
      Quote: Voletsky
      did not understand what the article was about.

      Yes, it's more clear about what. The fact that some in the West have an itch in one place from the fact that the Red Banner was raised over the defeated Reichstag.
      At the same time, TNI's interpretation of the war itself sounds like this: “While the Soviets retreated from June to November 1941, Britain and the United States were accumulating forces. As a result, the German army was forced to fight against the triple force. "
      That is, while our country was bleeding to death, losing people, territories and industrial potential, THEY "COLLECTED FORCE" ... And when in November 1941 they accumulated them, then what next? Did they start active hostilities against Hitler, or did they continue to sit cowardly?
      It's disgusting to read this, especially knowing that already in September 1941, Russian and English pilots fought wing by wing in our Arctic ...

      If they survived, then a quick lunch could be their reward.
      That is, Gastello went to the "fiery ram", due to the fact that he was not supposed to have dinner, so what?
    11. 0
      3 August 2021 08: 58
      Here is a link to the original (translated) article: https://inosmi.ru/military/20210802/250230755.html
      Read it.
  2. +21
    2 August 2021 13: 27
    "... and also the question of the toilet, which was "dug in the ground".... "
    =======
    It is said that when asked by a British journalist: "How are you going to build communism if during my visit to your country I didn't even find warm toilets there?? ", Alexandra Mikhailovna Kollontai, smiling, answered:" Everyone sees thatwhat is most to him necessary!" lol
  3. +4
    2 August 2021 13: 29
    Complete nonsense.
  4. +7
    2 August 2021 13: 32
    Toilet Mind
    1. +6
      2 August 2021 13: 35
      Well, they did not see the war on their land, the bombing is not that, but when the punishers will shoot thousands of them, although in those years the Britons were still fighters
  5. +17
    2 August 2021 13: 37
    rarely shaved, then went to the dining room to eat buns and coffee

    I stopped reading this phrase ... Do not trash my worldview, formed by the film "Only old men go to battle"!
    1. +10
      2 August 2021 14: 28
      in fact, they went after departure to feed the tame bear, drink vodka and play balalayka ///
      1. 0
        2 August 2021 14: 29
        Yes sir!)))
      2. +4
        2 August 2021 15: 14
        And after all this, they got on their plane of "dubious quality", and drunk, with a balalaika, and with a bear in an embrace again for a flight ...
        Get lost, where do they come from .... coffee and bun fool
  6. +6
    2 August 2021 13: 39
    and also the question of the toilet, which was "dug in the ground."
    Oh my God!
    Horrible!
    The allies probably had wagons with a toilet, which they dragged with them to each new field airfield.
    1. +11
      2 August 2021 14: 16
      Yes you!
      Light elves don't go to the toilet at all. And the concept of "shit" is not familiar to them at all.
      Yes
    2. +5
      2 August 2021 14: 27
      even now they do not always have the habit of wiping their ass off normally .. :)
  7. +12
    2 August 2021 13: 41
    The author calls the quality of Soviet aircraft during the Great Patriotic War "doubtful". Also in the book of the mentioned historian it is said that in the USSR during the war years "there was a catastrophic shortage of trained pilots."

    How then did the USSR manage to win the battle for heaven against Germany? The "historian" did not ask this question to himself ...
    1. -1
      2 August 2021 14: 03
      Pokryshkin fought in the Aircobra, enough.
      1. +8
        2 August 2021 14: 16
        Quote: out of habit
        Pokryshkin fought on the Aircobra

        And what about the rest of the tens of thousands of pilots?
        Lend-lease aircraft accounted for only 15% of the fighter aircraft of the USSR.
        Besides
        Soviet aviation suffered the smallest losses in World War II of all the belligerent powers.
        Comparative losses of the air forces of all countries participating in World War II: http://forum.guns.ru/forummessage/205/813676-2.html Interestingly, it turns out that the USSR aviation suffered the least losses of all the belligerent countries, and indeed ALL, as the anti-Hitler countries the coalition and the "Axis powers".

        And the data are:
        In the first place - Japan: 60,750 killed pilots (well, this is understandable, "kamikaze", traditions of honor, etc.)
        In second place - Germany: 57.137 killed pilots.
        In third place - England: 56.821 killed the pilot.
        In fourth place - USA: 40,061 killed the pilot.
        And on the FIFTH, the last place - the USSR: 34.500 killed pilots.
        Losses are even less than in the USA! Why?

        Maybe the Soviet commanders hesitantly used the aircraft, "protected" it? Not! Aviation of the USSR used THROUGH more intensively than Germany - during the war years on the Eastern front, German aviation made 1 373 952 combat sorties, and the USSR aviation - 3 808 136 sorties!

        This fact alone shatters the legends about "bastard Vanka", who, they say, is stupid, stupid and not far enough to fight on equal terms with "civilized Aryans" - for military aviation is always, then and now, the technical elite of the army. And the combat pilot is a unique fighter, combining the knowledge and intelligence of an engineer with the skills and reflexes of a professional Olympic-level athlete.
        ORIGINAL SOURCE: http: //psyont.livejournal.com/9824029.html
        1. +5
          2 August 2021 14: 26
          yes they fought dishonestly. :)
          Instead of civilized people (the French, for example) immediately surrendering - they knocked out the Luftwaffe's teeth, killed all the aces and ended the war in Berlin ..
          This is how the sacred suggests itself: "what about us? !!!"
        2. +2
          2 August 2021 15: 04
          Don't you understand the humor? And I do not need to spread the common truths.
          1. +2
            2 August 2021 15: 09
            Quote: out of habit
            Don't you understand the humor?

            Do not understand. hi

            Quote: out of habit
            common truths

            Still, it would become the Truth for everyone.
            1. +1
              2 August 2021 15: 29
              Not understood. hi

              Apparently, he thinks that without Western aircraft, the USSR would have lost. Something like this.
        3. 0
          2 August 2021 16: 08
          It is necessary to compare not the number of killed pilots, but the ratio of those participating in combat missions and the number of killed.
    2. Alf
      +5
      2 August 2021 19: 30
      Quote: Doccor18
      The author calls the quality of Soviet aircraft during the Great Patriotic War "doubtful". Also in the book of the mentioned historian it is said that in the USSR during the war years "there was a catastrophic shortage of trained pilots."

      How then did the USSR manage to win the battle for heaven against Germany? The "historian" did not ask this question to himself ...

      Is it not clear that they filled up with numbers and corpses ... The same was said by the Air Force and Discovery, but they cannot lie. Sarcasm.
  8. +14
    2 August 2021 13: 41
    “While the Soviets retreated from June to November 1941, Britain and the United States were building up their forces. As a result, the German army was forced to fight against the triple force. "
    These i-dio-you still cannot calm down about the fact that all thinking people KNOW who actually won the Second World War! The passage was supposed to sound like this: "While the Soviets retreated from June to November 1941, and then attacked from November 1941 to November 1944, Britain and the United States could not decide who should help in order to end up with a winner in order to to divide everything that is possible and what is not, and it is customary to rob the loser! ".
    1. +3
      2 August 2021 13: 56
      Quote: businessv
      The passage was supposed to sound like this: "While the Soviets retreated from June to November 1941, and then from November 1941 to November 1944 they advanced

      Ummm ... we have been advancing since November 1942, because after Moscow-41 there was still a retreat to the Caucasus and Stalingrad.
    2. +3
      2 August 2021 14: 02
      Quote: businessv
      Britain and the United States could not decide who should help

      why couldn't they, they helped both sides, they sold everything they needed to the Reich only through third countries
  9. +6
    2 August 2021 13: 45
    Quote: Voletsky
    did not understand what the article was about.

    Duc about the toilets that were dug in the ground! Stripes - they usually do not dig, and if there is no toilet bowl, then they shit anywhere! wink
    1. 0
      2 August 2021 14: 22
      And they don't wipe their backside.
  10. +10
    2 August 2021 13: 49
    An article by another Hooton about the fact that the Soviet soldiers of the Germans "threw meat" but the American and British Zoldaten is a colossal laughing less attention should be paid to such Pisak.
  11. 0
    2 August 2021 13: 54
    An American magazine said that the service of Soviet pilots during the war years was fraught with "dirt and fear."
    ... Again and again ... discussed and what did you get in the end? All remained with their own.
  12. +6
    2 August 2021 14: 02
    Foreign authors provide more evidence that the Anglo-American pilots saw in the Second World War only "sports" with the fascist Luftwaffe and nothing more? So we suspected something similar. This became especially clear when the "strange war" began (by the way, the American also coined this term, but apparently there were honest people in the United States at that time), as a result of which the German Nazis captured half of France, Denmark and Norway, destroyed the Polish state ... Although, whether captured, destroyed? Now these terms in relation to the aforementioned countries require clarification.
  13. +5
    2 August 2021 14: 07
    the quality of Soviet aircraft during the Great Patriotic War was "dubious". Also in the book of the mentioned historian it is said that in the USSR during the war years "there was a catastrophic shortage of trained pilots."
    and how did these dirty, inept Russians defeat the Germans, and after the Japs ?!
  14. +11
    2 August 2021 14: 09
    Comrades administrators remove this nonsense from here! Why are there such articles on VO to play off the people? There is nothing to discuss here. And you are printing this, throwing mud at the soldier of the liberator and Victory! Clean up immediately !!! am am am
  15. +1
    2 August 2021 14: 11
    Quote: Kayala
    It is in the movies that they are heroes, but in fact they are wet chickens.

    In all fairness, in almost all wars over the past half century, Americans have achieved all their goals. Even in Syria - look who controls 90% of oil production and benefits from it. Even Afghanistan - the hundredth was recouped by the money invested and the losses incurred, due to the income from drugs.
    Never underestimate an enemy, especially one like the Anglo-Saxons
    1. +3
      2 August 2021 14: 29
      If the goal is to squeeze resources in a sovereign state in an arrogant manner, then yes. Is always achieved.
  16. +14
    2 August 2021 14: 12
    Fear, dirt, hunger.
    Is it different in war?
    Or the goal is to tie Russia to the words "fear", "dirt" ...
  17. +3
    2 August 2021 14: 19
    * but in terms of quality and characteristics, they were in many ways inferior to German ones. The author calls the quality of Soviet aircraft during the Great Patriotic War "doubtful". Also in the book of the mentioned historian it is said that in the USSR during the war years "there was a catastrophic shortage of trained pilots." *
    Weird people. Is it really their people hawala? After all, the question is simple: how could such an army destroy the Luftwaffe and end the war in Berlin?
    1. Alf
      +2
      2 August 2021 19: 38
      Quote: Vladimir A
      Weird people. Is it really their people hawala?

      Recently I came across an article in which a Russian emigrating to America is talking to a friend who has come to visit. So ours says, We started radio and television broadcasting to the West and the USA, rush there, etc., we are trying to convey our point of view to the Westernizers. And the one who dumped there says in response, You shouldn't do it, it's all in vain. The average American is not interested in what is happening outside the United States, and he draws information from the BBC, CNN, there are no other sources for him and he does not believe in anything else.
  18. +10
    2 August 2021 14: 21
    The service of Soviet pilots during the war years was fraught with mud and fear. They slept on bunks or straw in village huts about 10 kilometers from the airfields. Technicians could live in dugouts, sleep in bags. They got up at dawn, brushed their teeth with a finger, rarely shaved, then went to the dining room to eat rolls and coffee, but often just black bread. Sometimes with sausage. Then - briefing and takeoff. If they survived, then the reward for them could be a quick lunch. "Brad. I have not seen a single dirty unshaven pilot in the Soviet chronicle" Sunday morning. We, instructors, sit in a canteen tent and have breakfast with appetite. "This is from the memoirs of I.N. Kozhedub. And these are the food standards for the pilots of the Red Army -" Air Force flight crews were given a reinforced ration (with a hot breakfast). The pilot's daily bread and potato ration was the same as that of an infantryman, otherwise it was higher, and among other things, it also contained other products: 190 g of cereals, 390 g of meat and poultry, 90 g of fish, 80 g of sugar, 20 g of condensed milk, 20 g of cottage cheese, 10 g of sour cream, 20 g of cheese and half an egg. "There was no bourgeois coffee, like sausages. On coffee buns, do not pull the overload of 4 G when making maneuvers. The article is another dirty" propaganda " American borzopisetsa.On either pretends to be an idiot, or carries rubbish for money..Could read the food standards of the pilots of the Red Army and the charter of service.
  19. +7
    2 August 2021 14: 45
    The service of Soviet pilots during the war years was fraught with mud and fear. They slept on bunks or straw in village huts about 10 kilometers from the airfields. Technicians could live in dugouts, sleep in bags. They got up at dawn, brushed their teeth with a finger, rarely shaved, then went to the dining room to eat rolls and coffee, but often just black bread. Sometimes with sausage. Then - briefing and takeoff. If they survived, then a quick lunch could be their reward.

    These are just those who shaved with an ax, guided themselves by the moss from an airplane, already in 1941 they bombed Berlin. Those who bent over the strongest army in the world in 1945
  20. +9
    2 August 2021 14: 46
    American yap. Of course, war is not sugar, but:







    Write about your Pearl Harbor ...
    1. +3
      2 August 2021 18: 43
      Quote: ROSS 42
      Write about your Pearl Harbor ...

      Better about the Philippines. It was even tastier there - MacArthur and his headquarters ruined their aircraft with their own hands, already having information about the beginning of the war and the attack on Pearl Harbor.
  21. +9
    2 August 2021 14: 48
    What happens to VO? Today's article clearly showed that the authors signed up, and most of the commentators are yesterday's schoolchildren, who passed the exam in half, at least half-way through the USE, who at least stretched the deadline for a year, who do not know history or anything else, who think in clichés and clichés of rewriters and republishers of our history , and they, for the most part, have enough intelligence to scribble cons to any sensible arguments.
    1. +9
      2 August 2021 15: 05
      The author of the article is American. The public was "hooked" that the Russian soldiers are again represented as dirty animals, which were smeared with poison, getting into leaky plywood planes. Personally, when I wrote my commentary, I could hardly refrain from "swearing". I am no longer a schoolboy of about 40 years old.
      1. +6
        2 August 2021 15: 19
        No, I understand all this perfectly. The article was written by an American for Americans. By the way, I would like to see the Americans reading such articles. In my opinion, the bulk of white Americans read comics, the bulk of black Americans jump and humiliate whites at work and at home, the bulk of colored Americans survive and gain a foothold. We will not talk about the rainbow majority now)
        I am depressed by the fact that a lot of material a) turned into a conjuncture; b) in the comments, the truth has not been given birth for a long time, commentators for the most part rave about the beautiful Russia of the future.
        1. +4
          2 August 2021 15: 24
          Whether or not there will be a beautiful Russia of the future depends precisely on these commentators. Maybe they are wrong about something, due to their youthful maximalism. The fact is that they came to read articles on "In", so probably not all is lost)). " Don't ask what the country has done for you. Ask what you have done for the country "JF Kennedy.
          1. 0
            2 August 2021 15: 32
            But let's hope) But for now, today's day reminds me of Russia at the end of 1916, and I do not wish Russia a new February revolution. As well as the new nineties. And Russia is a copy (colony) of the United States at all not our option))
            1. +1
              2 August 2021 15: 41
              The end of 1916 is the eve of the Bourgeois revolution)). The abolition of autocracy, civil liberties, the organization of representative bodies of power (parliament or duma). Where is "similarity" now? and a citizen.
              Personal rights and freedoms are rights and freedoms arising from the natural status of a person as such, inherent from birth. And further in the text to the 15th paragraph. And the fact that the use of freedoms depends on the thickness of the wallet is Capitalism. Socialism was abandoned. in 1991. The people do not "roll". We want capitalism. "The voice of the people is the voice of God" Vox populi vox Dei "Everything is as it should be)). Or not?
              1. +1
                2 August 2021 15: 49
                I agree. But in February the liberals came to power and Russia went to hell. We have not yet come to the supreme power double liberals (democrats from the State Department). And if something happens to the Duma, it’s how to blow its nose.
                1. +1
                  2 August 2021 15: 56
                  AlexSam read the history of the French Revolution. "Let's overthrow the king and everyone will become free, equal and brothers." , give them shelter and clothes. Let them disappear
                  hunger and want, and at the same time everything that separates people. "
                  - And it's all? asked Rumata.
                  - It seems to you that this is not enough?
                  Rumata shook his head.
                  - God would answer you: "It will not be good for people. For the strong
                  your world will be taken away from the weak that I gave them, and the weak are still
                  will remain beggars. "
                  - I would ask God to protect the weak, "Enlighten the cruel rulers",
                  I would say.
                  - Cruelty is power. Having lost cruelty, rulers will lose power,
                  and other cruel ones will replace them.
                  Budah stopped smiling.
                  “Punish the cruel,” he said firmly, “so that it is not disastrous to be strong.”
                  be cruel to the weak.
                  - A man is born weak. He becomes strong when not around
                  no one is stronger than him. When the cruel of the strong are punished, their place
                  take the strong from the weak. Also cruel. So you have to punish everyone, but I do not
                  I want this.
                  “You know better, almighty.” Then just make people
                  received everything and did not take from each other what you gave them.
                  “And this will not benefit people,” sighed Rumata, “for when
                  they will receive everything for nothing, without labor, from my hands, they will forget labor, lose
                  taste for life and turn into my pets, which I will have to
                  henceforth feed and clothe forever.
                  Don't give them everything at once! - said Budakh hotly. - Come on a little,
                  gradually!
                  - Gradually, people themselves will take whatever they need.
                  Budah laughed awkwardly.
                  “Yes, I see it’s not that easy,” he said. - I somehow did not think
                  before about such things ... It seems that you and I went over everything. However, - he
                  leaned forward - there is another possibility. Make it more
                  all people loved work and knowledge, so that work and knowledge become the only one
                  the meaning of their life!
                  Yes, we intended to try that too, thought Rumata. Mass
                  hypnoinduction, positive remoralization. Hypno emitters for three
                  equatorial satellites ...
                  “I could do that too,” he said. - But is it worth depriving
                  humanity of its history? Is it worth replacing one humanity with another? Not
                  will it be the same as wiping out this humanity from the face of the earth and
                  to create a new one in its place? "And further in the text .. Talk about" liberalism "is nonsense))
                  1. 0
                    2 August 2021 16: 01
                    Conversations are nonsense, I agree) But the deeds ...
                    And I will read the literature recommended by you.
                    1. +1
                      2 August 2021 16: 10
                      Thank you). More N Machiavelli "Sovereign" quote- "How can two get along if one suspects the other, and he, in turn, despises him." when they fear and love at the same time; however, love does not get along well with fear, so if you have to choose, then it is safer to choose fear. " . "
                      1. 0
                        2 August 2021 16: 14
                        I cannot agree with Machiavelli) But he judged from his bell tower without correcting for our mentality. Was Stalin loved or feared?)
                      2. +1
                        2 August 2021 16: 16
                        "They say that it is best when they are afraid and love at the same time" I.V. Stalin probably read this book). And the nature of people has not changed since 1532) unfortunately.
                      3. 0
                        2 August 2021 16: 18
                        And yes, we lit offtopic in the comments. Now the admin will come and "give us some nuts."
                      4. 0
                        2 August 2021 16: 19
                        perhaps yes)) roll up) and it was nice to talk to an intelligent person!
                      5. Alf
                        +2
                        2 August 2021 19: 46
                        Quote: AlexSam
                        Was Stalin loved or feared?

                        To answer this question, it is enough to know the reaction of people in March 53rd.



                        But some photos of such crowds of people at Yeltsin's funeral have not survived ...
                2. 0
                  2 August 2021 15: 59
                  This conversation is the essence of people until the values ​​of people change, their aspirations, otherwise Don Rumata will always have to pass swords over the heads and necks of the unreasonable.)
                3. The comment was deleted.
            2. 0
              2 August 2021 16: 28
              Quote: AlexSam
              today reminds me of Russia at the end of 1916
              You are like that soldier from the anecdote, to whom the brick resembles a female organ because he always thinks about it. Can't wait.
  22. The comment was deleted.
    1. +2
      2 August 2021 15: 27
      "Ocean waves beat at the gates of our house, and since a great nation wants to establish its place in the world, we have only one path: world politics."
      1. 0
        2 August 2021 16: 33
        Quote: Walking towards the light
        we have only one way: world politics
        Russia, which they had funeral service for so many years, returned to world politics with dignity and confidence.
        1. +1
          2 August 2021 16: 37
          Let's see. "" Plans are within plans, and they have plans again, and they have new plans, - thought Jessica. - Have we now become a part of someone's plans? "F. Herbert" Dune "
  23. The comment was deleted.
  24. 0
    2 August 2021 17: 33
    Everything is correct, from word to word. What is the problem?
    The fact that the "allies" have accumulated strength and have not yet accumulated? Well, it's strange to wait for this to be mentioned in American sources.
  25. +3
    2 August 2021 17: 44
    The book indicates that the Soviet industry “built many military aircraft, but in terms of quality and characteristics, they were in many ways inferior to the German ones. The author calls the quality of Soviet aircraft during the Great Patriotic War "doubtful".

    It turns out interestingly that unprepared Soviet pilots on Soviet low-quality aircraft shot down high-quality German aircraft perfectly.
    Attention attention! Pokryshkin is in the sky! And the German pilots were blown out of the sky at once! laughing
  26. amr
    +2
    2 August 2021 18: 26
    Quote: Voletsky
    Let me tell you a secret, their soldiers are also crawling up to their ears in shit and sleeping on just about anything ...

    I judge from the stories of an employee of a colleague ...
    under Ukraine, he served in NATO, one rotation was not enough to earn a NATO pension of 2000 euros on his hands, the poor fellow drank for 3 months with grief)) but he did not leave Crimea ...

    with us he served Iraq and Afghanistan, the war is something like this, according to NATO (like he is the Ukrainian contingent, but the system is built for amers)

    a cup of coffee, a plastic chair with an umbrella, + once an hour there is a queue in the direction of the enemy, in no case stick out of the trench ... constant control over amers, if the Americans leave the base, it means that within a radius of 10 km you need to leave your bases, all peaceful they also leave all their villages ... this means that there will be carpet bombing ... and let it be 5 km away from the base, and suddenly it will fall into the base, so they will be evacuated to everyone!
  27. +4
    2 August 2021 18: 41
    It's funny not to discuss the life of our pilots, it's cool that an American doesn't talk about the positions left by the Nazis and Americans, well, where were the barracks and toilets rebuilt there?
  28. +1
    2 August 2021 23: 18
    To sue for insulting the honor of Soviet soldiers and the feelings of modern residents of the Russian Federation. And no, it is better to chew the snot, and not gag the nasty mouth with a buck.
  29. +1
    3 August 2021 02: 53
    This American monkey writes: "... and while Germany was bleeding in the ruins of cities and the endless steppes of Russia, the United States and Britain were accumulating strength for victory." This Anglo-Saxon scum in the article clearly sympathizes with the Nazis. And he treats the defenders of Russia with disgust and disdain! If the thoughts and feelings of all the tortured colonialism of the slave trade and
    capitalism of the world would be material then the Anglo-Saxon presumptuous scum would not live even three years. My dream is a utopia, so that all the Anglo-Saxons could be assembled into one giant space ship and sent to Mars or somewhere else. How much life on the planet would the earth be better without this envious, deceitful, greedy and bloodthirsty nation !!!!
  30. +1
    3 August 2021 05: 19
    ))) The United States did not fight in real combat conditions with a real enemy))) they don’t chase popuas ... they have never received them in the teeth from Russia .. what they know is real))) the Germans should have asked what and how! they are poor!
  31. kig
    0
    3 August 2021 06: 56
    I read another article by Anonymous with interest, then found Mr. Ax at TNI, and was surprised: why did the unknown author dislike him? We read:

    The Eastern Front was the decisive theater of World War II in Europe. German premier Adolf Hitler's disastrous 1941 order to invade the vast Soviet Union mired Nazi Germany in a bloody, grinding conflict it could not win.

    Here, in theory, everything should be pleasant: the Eastern Front is a decisive theater, Hitler started a war that he could not win.

    And as Germany bled itself pale in Russia's rubble-heaped cities and seemingly endless plains, the western Allies - Great Britain and the United States - gathered their strength for a counteroffensive that, by 1944, would see Germany under assault from three sides.

    "While Germany was bleeding to death in cities smashed to pieces and endless steppes ... and in 44 came under attack from three sides." What's wrong here?

    Probably I didn't like this: The raw figures reflecting Soviet industrial output tended to mask fundamental problems. The USSR built plenty of planes - but of generally inferior designs compared to German models, - The USSR made a lot of aircraft, but of a lower quality compared to the German ones. Well, it's kind of true, many authors writing about aviation admit that it was only by 44 that we had something equal to the Germans.

    You can read about the life of pilots on the ground in Drabkin's, where the memoirs of the participants are collected. There was definitely no comfort there.

    Here is Mr. Ax's closing phrase. And then awake and repeat until an accident or a crack German pilot ended the filthy, hungry, fearful routine - in history's greatest air war. - here of course ... tricks of the mind for the sake of a catchphrase ... type of complete hopelessness.
  32. 0
    3 August 2021 08: 23
    It's just that the Americans have three good anti-tank ditches: Pacific, Atlantic and Arctic. Therefore, they do not know a real war. When your home is flattened. Together with family.
  33. +1
    3 August 2021 08: 24
    You can treat the Soviet pilots as you like, but this will not change the historical fact - it was THEY who won in the Second World War! Let this journalist better tell the truth about the quality and training of OWN pilots and their contribution to victory. Only honestly
  34. 0
    3 August 2021 12: 28
    Quote: Alexey RA
    Ummm ... we have been advancing since November 1942, because after Moscow-41 there was still a retreat to the Caucasus and Stalingrad.

    If the opus under discussion had the date you specified, I would not change it either. I tried to get closer to the original, but to be completely objective, the Kharkov operation had already been carried out by the date you indicated. In any case, my post is closer to the truth than the discussed one! wink
  35. 0
    3 August 2021 15: 46
    the pig is looking for dirt - nothing strange or surprising
  36. 0
    3 August 2021 17: 39
    Quote: Voletsky
    [They are just like us, they speak only a different language.

    Biologically - no doubt about it, but the grandfather who ended the war on the Elbe (the commander of a machine-gun company) for some reason did not coincide with your ideas about them as at least equal warriors. About the Germans, as about the pros - yes, but about the nun warriors - no. But it looks like you know better
  37. 0
    4 August 2021 09: 34
    Pilot service associated with "fear and filth" could only be in the US and European Air Forces! There was patriotism in the USSR and a spirit for victory! "The enemy will be defeated!" This motto was in all branches of the USSR during the Second World War!