The Ministry of Defense launches a program to upgrade Su-30SM combat aircraft to the level of Su-30SM2

The Ministry of Defense is launching a program to upgrade the Su-30SM multipurpose fighters to the level of the Su-30SM2. Work under the program will begin at the end of this year.

The Russian military department has decided on the timing of the start of the program for the modernization of combat multipurpose fighters Su-30SM to the level of Su-30SM2. Work within the framework of the "experimental overhaul of the Ministry of Defense's Su-30SM aircraft with simultaneous modernization" will begin in December this year. "News", referring to the schedule already approved by the military.

The first batch of modernized Su-30SM2 should be delivered to the Aerospace Forces by the end of next, 2022. How many planes it will have is not reported. Also, the Ministry of Defense has not yet officially announced information on the total number of Su-30SM combat fighters planned for modernization. To date, the Aerospace Forces and the Navy have about 130 Su-30SM, which have been delivered since 2013.

Simultaneously with the modernization of the combatant Su-30SM, the Ministry of Defense will also purchase new-built Su-30SM2 fighters. The contract for the supply of 21 new Su-30SM2 fighters was signed last year, and it is planned that the new aircraft will strengthen the sea Aviation.

The modernized Su-30SM2 fighter is maximally unified with the Su-35 fighter. In the course of modernization, combat fighters will receive the AL-41F-1S engine and the Irbis radar, the avionics, electronics will be improved, and the arsenal of weapons will be expanded.

Comments

[Hog]

But this is very good.

[Orange bigg]

Most likely, they will modernize, among other things, to build up the arsenal of weapons used from the Su-30SM. Surely it will be able to use the X-95. Well that's a guess.

... In Russia, the development of the X-95 hypersonic air-launched missile is underway.

Information about the newest Russian promising hypersonic air-launched missile appeared in open sources, which, as noted, can be used to suppress enemy forces in possible future armed conflicts. The missile was named X-95. Apparently, the ammunition is still being developed, although it is obvious that its tests will begin in the near future.

“Head of the Military Academy of the General Staff of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, Colonel-General VB Zarudnitsky. gave the name of an air-launched hypersonic missile in his article "Factors of Achieving Victory in Military Conflicts of the Future", published in the latest August issue of "Military Thought". This missile is called the Kh-95, ”the Military Boltovoy community informs Telegram.

For obvious reasons, no details are provided on this score. Experts note that we are talking about a tactical cruise missile, which, obviously, will have a range of more than a thousand kilometers.

https://avia.pro/news/minoborony-rf-sluchayno-rasskazalo-o-giperzvukovoy-rakete-vozdushnogo-bazirovaniya-h-95

[Volkof]

Here is the latest complete information on the status of the Su-30SM2 program:
https://www.aex.ru/fdocs/1/2021/8/2/32329/print/

[Volkof]

Here is the complete and up-to-date information on the state of the program:
Major upgrade: the Ministry of Defense began updating the Su-30SM

August 2, 2021 Anton Lavrov, Alexey Ramm, Izvestia


The Ministry of Defense has begun modernizing the Su-30SM to the Su-30SM2 "Super-Sukhoi" version. Now it is the most numerous type of modern fighters in the Aerospace Forces (VKS) and naval aviation. Work under the project will begin in December this year. And already at the end of the next one, the first fighter, upgraded to the CM2 version, must pass all tests. With the upgrade, the vehicles will receive new engines, radars and "smart" weapons. In parallel, a contract for the production of new combat vehicles of this type is being fulfilled - at the end of the year, a massive arrival of new aviation equipment is expected in the troops. Experts note that the process will not be limited to improvement.

The Ministry of Defense has begun modernizing the Su-30SM to the Su-30SM2 "Super-Sukhoi" version. Now it is the most numerous type of modern fighters in the Aerospace Forces (VKS) and naval aviation. Work under the project will begin in December this year. And already at the end of the next one, the first fighter, upgraded to the CM2 version, must pass all tests. With the upgrade, the vehicles will receive new engines, radars and "smart" weapons. In parallel, a contract for the production of new combat vehicles of this type is being fulfilled - at the end of the year, a massive arrival of new aviation equipment is expected in the troops. Experts note that the process will not be limited to improvement.

More planes

According to the schedule approved by the military department (at the disposal of Izvestia), work on "experimental overhaul of the Su-30SM aircraft of the Russian Ministry of Defense with the simultaneous modernization of the Su-30SM2 as a technical person" will begin in December 2021.

According to Izvestia sources in the ministry, it is planned to upgrade the first batch of Su-30SM to an updated version and complete their tests by the end of next year. At the same time, as the interlocutors of the publication noted, the military department does not rely only on fighters that will undergo an upgrade - new Su-30SM2 will be purchased at the same time.

As Izvestia previously reported, a large-scale contract for the upgrade of combatant Su-30SM to the CM2 version is estimated at seven billion rubles. The exact number of aircraft to be updated has not yet been officially announced.

Last year, the Ministry of Defense signed an agreement for the production of 21 new Su-30SM2 fighters with a total value of several tens of billions of rubles. These aircraft will go into service with the naval aviation.

“The Su-30SM was created from a well-developed export version supplied to India,” military expert Vladislav Shurygin told Izvestia. - Some of the foreign equipment remained on it, which became sanctioned. Therefore, already in 2015, work began on deep modernization, combined with import substitution. The updated aircraft will come close to the capabilities of the fifth generation.

Upgraded look

The upgraded version of the Su-30SM will not only have improved combat characteristics, but will also be unified with the Su-35. As a result, the maintenance of a large fleet of both types of modern aerospace forces will be simplified. This is especially important in relation to engines - the most expensive aircraft components.

The Su-30SM2 will receive the AL-41F-1S aircraft engine, which is also used on the Su-35S. Compared to the current power plant, its thrust will increase by more than 16%, up to 14 kgf. In addition, it has twice the resource: the overhaul interval has reached 500 thousand hours. Improvements and plasma ignition have made the engine more fuel efficient, resulting in longer flight times.

Since the adoption of the basic version of the Su-30SM, a large number of modern aviation weapons have been developed and put into service. Changes in onboard electronics and software will allow the use of new missiles and bombs designed to arm the Su-35 and the fifth-generation stealth fighter Su-57.

Other improvements include a new radar, unified with the Su-35. It will allow the aircraft to detect ground and air targets from a greater distance, including stealthy ones. This is necessary in order to use the latest long-range missiles and feel confident in aerial combat with any enemy.

They will receive the Su-30SM2 and the latest multi-channel integrated communication, data exchange, navigation and identification system (OSNOD). This has already been installed on the fifth generation fighters. It allows aircraft and drones to communicate with each other, maintain high-speed contact with ground control points, and integrate into modern automated control loops.

Most numerous

The Su-30SM for the Russian Air Force was created on the basis of the export version of the Su-30MKI, developed for India. The two-seater crew of the aircraft allows better use of modern guided weapons. The navigator-operator can focus on finding and engaging ground and surface targets.

Differences from the export version were introduced into the radar, communication systems and state recognition. The set of available weapons and even the ejection seat have changed. The software has also been improved.

The first contract for the supply of super-maneuverable Su-30SM to the Russian Ministry of Defense was signed in March 2012. The Irkut Corporation undertook to build and transfer 30 aircraft to the department. Already in December of the same year, the first pair of newly built fighters flew from the factory airfield in the Far East to the State Flight Test Center in Akhtubinsk and began testing. Serial deliveries began in 2013. Subsequently, additional contracts were concluded for several dozen more units.

By the time the contract was signed, the newest Su-35 and Su-57 were still being tested. As a result, the SM for several years became the most advanced serial fighter in the arsenal of the Russian Air Force. Now there are regiments with Su-30SM in the Western, Southern and Eastern military districts. Their total number in service is about 130 pieces.

In naval aviation, these aircraft initially entered not fighter, but assault air regiments. Naval pilots regularly practice not only air combat, but also strikes against land and sea targets. Their missile armament in the exercises was tested by shooting at real combat target ships.

The Su-30SM has also become the de facto standard for arming Russia's closest allies. The planes were acquired by Kazakhstan and Belarus, and Armenia received the squadron.

[Volkof]

Here is the complete and up-to-date information on the status of the Su-30SM2 program:
https://www.aex.ru/fdocs/1/2021/8/2/32329/print/
This is actually a refutation of information from the same source from 20.07.2020/XNUMX/XNUMX:

The Baltic Fleet will receive the first samples of the modernized Su-30SM2 by the end of 2021. This is reported by Izvestia with reference to sources in the military department.

The fighters will replace the outdated Su-27 and enhance the combat capabilities of naval aviation in the region. The aircraft will be used to re-equip the 689th Fighter and 4th Guards Assault Regiments.

ttps: //kgd.ru/news/society/item/96103-izvestiya-do-konca-goda-na-baltflot-napravyat-pervye-modernizirovannye-istrebiteli-su-30sm2

They will not receive anything in 2021 and the contract for the supply of 21 Su-30SM2 by the end of 2022 will not be fulfilled ...

[Eug]

As for me, Belka should be installed and unified with the Su-35 and its potential modifications on all new and modernized pilots - both the Su-30 and the Su-2SM57. Energy may become an obstacle, but I do not think that it is much more powerful on the Su-57. At the initial stage, it will certainly be more expensive, but in the end it will be cheaper. And looking at the fact that the United States is returning to the production of the F-15 (aerodynamics of the 4th generation) with a new board, the Belka also needs to be adapted to the Su-35 and types unified with it.

[URAL72]

"The squirrel also needs to be adapted to the Su-35"

Su-35 will also be modernized. I do not exclude that the main AFAR Squirrels will be delivered (there are 5 of them). But before shouting about it at every corner, you need to try to find customers and supply them with the maximum possible number of Irbis boards. Do not rush to export Proteins. Today even India cannot be trusted - they are drifting towards the States. The Russia-India-China alliance is unlikely to suit them ...

[Eug]

I proceed from the assumption that the new Customer is unlikely to agree to the delivery of the Su-35 with PFAR, even if it is cheaper. Those who agreed have already been sold. Everyone wants technology.

[mvg]

you need to put Squirrel

It remains only to figure out where to catch so many squirrels, if it is not even in the series yet. It did not even go through trial operation. And the prospects are still not clear. Is the radio photonic radar station going to be muddied up? I don't believe it, but suddenly ...
And so the price tag for the plane will increase significantly. There would be a sales market (India, Algeria, Indonesia, Ebipet ...) 9 year old planes could be sold and new ones assembled, but these countries themselves want the newest and the best. Maybe Iran will enter the market, it would be nice, but also the chances are slim, given the Chinese investments in Iran

[El Chuvachino]

Quote: mvg

if she's not even in the series yet. It did not even go through trial operation.

Proofs in the studio

[Nikolaevich I]

And I also remember such an "index" as CM3! There is much more to strive for! This is what it means: the outcome is not important ... the main thing is the Process itself!

[Lord of the Sith]

It seems that modernization has already begun and there are 20 Su-30SM2 units available.

[Volkof]

The signed contract involves the delivery of 21 Su-30SM2 to the Naval Aviation by the end of 2022, and not to the Aerospace Forces, in the article there is confusion and inaccuracies! Another source:
https://dfnc.ru/aviazcia/aviatsiya-vmf-rossii/
By the way, read what a meager number of aircraft Russia has in MA and cry ... This is just a complete paragraph ... In the entire strike MA of 4 fleets as attack aircraft, there are as many as 26 Su-30SM aircraft and 40 outdated Su-24M ...

In 2012, 28 Su-30SM aircraft were ordered for naval aviation. In 2015-2016, the squadron armed with these attack aircraft became part of the 43rd regiment in the Crimea. In 2016, two Su-30SM aircraft were at the disposal of the Northern Fleet. In 2016–2020, the Baltic Fleet received a squadron of Su-30SM attack aircraft. In total, MA is armed with about 26 Su-30SM aircraft.

Is this the Naval Aviation of the Great Maritime Power? Why are there so few new aircraft produced, especially against the background of old crumbling ones? Are they completely out of the office in the leadership?
There is no information that at the end of 2020 the first Su-30SM2 took off ... But in addition to the new avionics, the plane must have a new engine! The plane needs test flights ...

[Lord of the Sith]

Thanks for the detailed information!

[Jacket in stock]

And it surprises me that having quite a decent avionics (su35 flew in 2008), in 2013, they installed obviously outdated equipment on the plane and continued to rivet it right up to 2021.
Now again, having a "Belka" in a new plane, they are shoving equipment of the previous generation.
Again, a "zoo" is spawning, when simultaneously in production and in the troops there are several
aircraft of the same purpose, but of different types and with different equipment,.

[Lykases1]

What is the fundamental difference between the su-30 and the su-35?

[Jacket in stock]

Different glider, different engines, different avionics, different crew sizes - Su30 is a two-seater, Su35 has one pilot, and most importantly, they are made at different factories.

[sanya_sergant]

The comrade's question is not as simple as it seems.
You give the answer at the lieutenant level.
And I would like to hear the answer at the level of the general.
What is the fundamental difference. What one can and cannot another. And most importantly, why and why are there two?

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: sanya_sergant

What is the fundamental difference. What one can and cannot another.

I would recommend looking at the American F-15s. The single-seat modification has the task of establishing air supremacy, the two-seat modification is purely shock functions.

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: sanya_sergant

I would like to hear the answer at the level of the general.
What is the fundamental difference. What one can and cannot another.

Yes, it seems to have specially highlighted -

are made in different factories.

those. different people feed.

[Marachuh]

It's like a bike and a car. One for air superiority, the second station wagon with the ability to work on the ground and difficult targets. The 30th will lose 35 in air battles, the 35th will lose in the work on the ground and the search for targets.

[Lykases1]

Double. I just didn’t understand why there were approximately the same planes. Now I see the meaning. Thanks

[URAL72]

The meaning is much deeper. The Su-30SM traces its lineage to the Su-30K and then the Su-30MKI. On CM, even on-board computers are Indian and some of the avionics are French. The car was basically developed by Irkut, a private company, funded by India. India wanted exactly a two-seater car. For not having production facilities, the RF Ministry of Defense was forced to order what is, and not what you want. But the fleet is also interested in the two-seater option - all the same, flights over non-orientated terrain - the sea. The Bars radar then corresponded to the available weapons - a 200 km range on aircraft such as MiG-29, F-16, etc., even more on ships.

[Herman 4223]

The fundamental difference is that the Su-30 was originally created with the ability to control air combat. Can direct other fighters to targets. This is done by the co-pilot (operator). For this, a more powerful radar with a wider field of view was installed on the plane than on the Su-27.

[abc_alex]

Quote: Lykases1

What is the fundamental difference between the su-30 and the su-35?

At the moment - nothing. And logic dictates that one of these machines should be removed from the Air Force. But this cannot be done, since the price of Sukhoi's new machines is unaffordable for the domestic military-industrial complex. A relic of Poghosyan.

Initially, the Su-30 was created as the commander of the Su-27 flight - a replacement for a large AWACS aircraft, for this - the second crew member. In theory, it should not have been the most numerous, but simply massive. But thanks to Poghosyan's undercover games, the domestic generals became confident in the possibility of re-equipping the Air Force completely with heavy fighters. As a result, in the 2000s, it turned out that there was simply no rearmament. The park is aging, and there is nothing to change it for - the Pogosyan jets are so expensive that it is simply not realistic to replace the rapidly aging MiG-29 with new Su. Moreover, the Sukhoi did not have a universal aircraft: the Su-30 was an interceptor fighter.
Since 2007, the development of a new IS Su-35 has been going on for the Russian Air Force. By the end of 2015, as many as 48 fighters were manufactured! Despite the fact that at least a hundred cars of different ages and different classes were subject to replacement. At such a rate, the replacement of the Russian Air Force Parska would take about 100 years.

Fortunately, by 2000-2001, an upgraded Su-30MKI (Modernized Commercial Indian) was made on the basis of the Su-30 for India. With expanded strike capabilities, since the Indians did not need a command plane, and modernized avionics. The car turned out to be successful, a whole family turned out: Algerian, Malaysian, even Chinese. Only there was no Russian. The situation reached the point of absurdity: during one of the demonstrations of the Su-30MKI, the test pilot told either someone from the Power, or on camera, that such aircraft are needed in the RF Armed Forces, but they are not. He was noticed that the cockpit was in English, to which he replied, if this is only the case, then our pilots will learn English.

As a result, in 2012, on the basis of the Su-30 MKI, the Su-30SM (Modernized Serial) was made for the Russian Air Force. This is an almost complete copy of the Su-30MKI fighter developed for an Indian contract. The Su-30SM has been adapted in terms of radio communication systems, radar systems, airborne object recognition and a number of other auxiliary systems for use by the Russian Air Force. And most importantly, he was in the series.
This is how the Russian Air Force ended up with two identical information security systems. Which do not differ from each other functionally. The fact that the Su-30SM is a two-seater, and the Su-35 had a two-seater version, is a combat training one. As far as I understand, its development was discontinued precisely because of the Su-30SM.

So the correct answer to your question is that there is no difference in these machines.

[Castro Ruiz]

Modernization and unification is good and useful. But hotelos bi already puts AFAR radar.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

Rational decision.

[Kaw]

Interestingly, air-to-air missiles like a meteor will ever appear? After all, we are lagging behind in the field of anti-aircraft missiles (or I'm wrong)

[Momento]

the other day I saw a comparison of meteors with conventional rockets. not everything is so simple there. the range of meteors is longer, but the speed increases slowly. a ramjet engine runs for a long time, but the initial impulse is not large.
summarizing. the meteor takes precedence after 80-100 km. before that, conventional missiles such as aaram or r-77 have a good chance of knocking down the target. Well, the minus is that the meteor will not shoot down a very close enemy. an additional disadvantage of a ramjet engine is that it is heavier than a rocket engine.

[Kaw]

So we are lagging behind AMRAAM. The Americans are now entering service with the AIM-120D with a range of 180 km. And our long-range R-77 has a range of 110 km. There is also the R-37, but in my opinion it is only for the MiG-31.

[Herman 4223]

180 km from this rocket can be obtained only when launched from the F-22. On other machines, this range simply will not work. The range depends on the altitude and launch speed.
The new version of the medium-range missile, which is based on the R-77, launches the Su-57 at a range of 160 km.

[Kaw]

Does the F-22 fly faster and higher than other American fighters?

[Herman 4223]

Taller than some, and can make launches at supersonic speeds. Not all fighters can do this.

[ramzay21]

The most adequate decision of our leadership in fighter aviation. This plane is needed by both the Navy and the Aerospace Forces.
On the good, from heavy fighters to troops should
we go only Su-30SM2 and Su-57, replacing the entire zoo with different types of aircraft with the same purpose.

[abc_alex]

The Su-35 has a better glider ...

[ramzay21]

More perfect than the Su-57? The Su-30SM2 and Su-35 have different tasks, but the Su-35 and Su-57 have the same tasks, while the Su-57 has higher characteristics and there is no sense in producing two aircraft with the same purpose.

[abc_alex]

I believe that the Su-57, like the Raptor in the United States, cannot be massive heavy information security. Too expensive. In addition, it has a number of parameters that are unnecessary in local conflicts.
In my opinion, the 35th should become the main heavy fighter. In addition to it as a shock, (for example, for a pair of Onyx anti-ship missiles) Su-34. And the Su-57 is intended for special operations such as a first strike against an air defense system.
And if you make the Su-57 the main one, then I think it is capable of fulfilling the tasks of the Su-30SM, its avionics are more perfect, besides, giving the Su-57 link as the control machine of the Su-30SM, in my opinion, is not rational.

[ramzay21]

The Su-35, as an air superiority aircraft, has become obsolete with the advent of the fifth-generation F-35 mass aircraft from our partners. It is a crime to produce an obsolete aircraft in the conditions of a lack of money, if there is a new one. There is no excessive superiority, whether it is or not, our aerospace forces have not had this superiority for a long time.
Against the background of 180 Rapters, our 100 Su-35s cannot be called massive. And one Su-57 for the whole huge country is nothing.
The Su-30SM2 is just a strike aircraft, like the F-15EX, and it was decided to make it a strike aircraft of the Navy and a carrier of anti-ship missiles rather than the Su-34.
The Su-57 should replace all modifications of the Su-27, Su-35 and MiG-31 among the troops.
The Su-30SM2 can supplement the Su-57 as an arsenal by launching long-range missiles at the Su-57's control center, which in this case, using its low visibility, can be closer to targets, detect targets and aim missiles at them, such a bundle has very good perspectives.
As a mass aircraft, our VKS needs an analogue of the cheap and efficient F-35, which will replace numerous MiG-29s.

[abc_alex]

Quote: ramzay21

The Su-35, as an air superiority aircraft, has become obsolete with the advent of the fifth-generation F-35 mass aircraft from our partners.

Fifth Generation is a media stamp. There are no generally accepted signs of this "generation", so talk about unequivocal Penguin's advantage over 35 is at least premature. At least the performance characteristics of the dry one are much better, and their passive detection system is superior to the state one. So in the stealth state and in classic air combat, the Penguin will have no advantage. And all other scenarios like "Russian is blind and deaf, and we are cunning" are Hollywood cliches. The fact that there are much more Penguins is indisputable. And in this case, numerical parity is not the last thing.
By the way, the Penguin is not an air conquest plane. In this role, the Raptor walks among the Shtatovites.

Quote: ramzay21

The Su-30SM2 is just a strike aircraft, like the F-15EX, and it was decided to make it a strike aircraft of the Navy and a carrier of anti-ship missiles rather than the Su-34.

The Su-30SM in terms of its striking qualities in version 2 will only catch up with the capabilities of the Su-35. The note states that he will receive the same equipment as the 35th. But he definitely loses to the 34th. In particular, the 34th can carry a pair of Onyx-class anti-ship missiles, and the 30th can only carry one. And updating the electronics will not help - 34 has a strengthened set in the center section area. The fleet, in my opinion, made a mistake, the 34th is better suited for shock functions. The reason for the error, I think, is the same as the reason for the disaster with the naval engine building - the lack of managerial competencies in the naval leadership.

Quote: ramzay21

The Su-57 should replace all modifications of the Su-27, Su-35 and MiG-31 among the troops.

In theory, yes. But our military-industrial complex simply does not have enough resources for this. Almost 31 boards are needed to replace the MiG-150 alone.

Quote: ramzay21

Su-30SM2 can complement the Su-57 as an arsenal

In terms of range, speed and altitude, the Su-30 will constrain the Su-57, the US ideas with arsenals for the Penguin are based on the fact that the Penguin itself does not surpass the previous aircraft in terms of flight characteristics. And the 57th arsenal is not needed - it has a load of up to 16 tons.

Quote: ramzay21

Su-57, which in this case, using its low visibility, can be closer to targets, detect targets and aim missiles at them,

What for? The penguin needs this, since he is not able to independently carry a normal rocket load. And the 57th carries the full range of missile weapons including the heaviest long-range missiles.

Quote: ramzay21

As a mass aircraft, our VKS needs an analogue of the cheap and efficient F-35, which will replace numerous MiG-29s.

I think that making exactly an analogue of the Penguin is at least hastily. Note that the United States has not yet used its "stealth" against a technologically advanced enemy. Even in Serbia and Iraq, the main load was carried not by "stealth", but by conventional aircraft of the US Air Force. And to call the F-35 effective, let alone cheap, is extremely bold. For the RF Air Force, in my opinion, the MiG-35 with modern avionics will be good.

[ramzay21]

The definition of the fifth generation has long been formulated by the military and is quite well known to themselves.

At least, the performance characteristics of the dry one are much better, and their passive detection system is superior to the state one.

All air battles, in which the fourth generation aircraft participated, took place at medium and long distances, and here the main advantage will be who first discovers will win. This is influenced by two parameters of EPR and avionics.
The RCS for the Su-35 is 2 meters without missiles, and for the F-35 it is 0,01 meters with missiles. N035-Irbis Su-35 will detect the F-35 at a distance of 40 km, and only in the front hemisphere, and the AN / APG-81 F-35 will detect our Su-35 at a range of 190 km, moreover, in the LPI mode, the radiation of which is the Su avionics -35 will not detect.

The Su-30SM in terms of its striking qualities in version 2 will only catch up with the capabilities of the Su-35. The note states that he will receive the same equipment as the 35th. But he definitely loses to the 34th. In particular, the 34th can carry a pair of Onyx-class anti-ship missiles, and the 30th can only carry one.

The Su-35 is a pure fighter, its counterpart to the Su-57, and the Su-30SM2 is a fighter with the capabilities of a strike aircraft. The Su-30SM2 is not inferior to the Su-34 in terms of combat load, it has the same 12 hardpoints, but it significantly surpasses the Su-34 as a fighter, and has a lower EPR, so the decision to make the main attack aircraft of the Navy is the Su-30SM2 absolutely correct. And the air-based Onyx anti-ship missile system is not yet available. There is a Bramos anti-ship missile, and neither in our country but in India, and they use it with the Su-30MKI.

In theory, yes. But our military-industrial complex simply does not have enough resources for this. Almost 31 boards are needed to replace the MiG-150 alone.

If our leadership begins to think with their heads and not the place where they sit on golden toilets, and stop spraying funds on unnecessary things and unnecessary aircraft, then we are quite capable of supplying about 300 Su-57s to the troops until the 30s. The Su-57, subject to timely upgrades, will be able to remain a modern aircraft until the 50s.
If this is not done, then the ordered 76 Su-57 will be the only combat-ready aircraft in our Aerospace Forces. All other rarities by the 30th year will become absolutely useless. Therefore, all sane countries that know how to count money abandoned the purchase of the Su-35, in favor of more modern aircraft. Technologies of the 80s are no longer of interest to anyone.
The MiG-31 with an EPR of 25 meters is a flying archaism, its real combat value is already zero, even though it looks beautiful at parades. It's high time to change it.

[ramzay21]

What for? The penguin needs this, since he is not able to independently carry a normal rocket load.

The F-35 has a combat load of 9100 kg, while the Su-35 has 8 kg. And do you think that the combat load for a single-engine aircraft of 000 kg is not enough than that of our twin-engine?
And the combat load of the Su-57 is 16 tons only due to less fuel. The F-35 can also take 16 tons on such conditions.

I think that making exactly an analogue of the Penguin is at least hastily. Note that the United States has not yet used its "stealth" against a technologically advanced enemy. Even in Serbia and Iraq, the main load was carried not by "stealth", but by conventional aircraft of the US Air Force. And to call the F-35 effective, let alone cheap, is extremely bold.

During the war in Iraq, and even more so in Yugoslavia, the F-35 was only being designed. But in Syria, the Israelis are so pleased with the results of the F-35 that they ordered more. Israeli F-35s operate quite freely in the Syrian skies and bomb whoever they want without loss, despite the presence of S-300 systems in the air defense of Syria.
Unfortunately, our gigantic technological lag behind the United States makes it almost impossible to make an aircraft at the level of the F-35, but in any case we need to do this, and we need to create a single-engine light aircraft based on the Su-57 developments, modifying and modernizing them.

To create a MiG-35 is a waste of money, a 40-year-old plane in 20 years will become 60 years old, Americans and other countries are writing off its analogue F-16 now, and in 20 years they will only be in museums and in the air forces of African countries. And buying an airplane for 5 years is a crime.

[abc_alex]

Quote: ramzay21

The definition of the fifth generation has long been formulated by the military and is quite well known to themselves.

Yes? And can you bring them up? This is the first time I've heard about this.
Or are you talking about the US military?

Quote: ramzay21

and AN / APG-81 F-35 will detect our Su-35 at a distance of 190 km, moreover, in LPI mode, the radiation of which will not be detected by the Su-35 avionics.

Read carefully what I am writing about. Tales about LPI mode - developer statements. Nobody has actually tested this and cannot prove it. As no one has confirmed the statements of the State officials about the EPR of the Penguin. Meanwhile, the US always lie about the characteristics of their technology. They just sang about the Spiritualists, but it turned out to be completely different.
This is why I am talking about PASSIVE detection. Situations when both aircraft are not using radar. In addition, let me remind you that the combat range of domestic heavy missiles is much greater than the US ones.

Quote: ramzay21

The Su-35 is a pure fighter, its counterpart to the Su-57, and the Su-30SM2 is a fighter with the capabilities of a strike aircraft.

Why do you think so? The Su-35 was originally designed as a fighter-bomber. But the Su-30 was originally created as a refined fighter. Impact functions are screwed to it only for the sake of the Indians. That is why it loses to the Su-34. I already wrote to you - the point is in the features of the power set. The Su-34 has a reinforced kit that allows you to take two heavy missiles. The Su-30SM simply cannot do this.

Quote: ramzay21

The Su-34 is like a fighter, and it has a lower ESR, so the decision to make the Su-30SM2 the main attack aircraft of the Navy was absolutely correct.

Why does the carrier of heavy anti-ship missiles need an underestimated ESR? The launch range of such an ammunition, by definition, is higher than the range of the air defense order. Such a machine should not enter into an air battle. And two hefty missiles under the wing will nullify any stealth. The bet on the Su-30 is completely wrong. Using it as a percussion is simply meaningless. One side - one missile - it's good when there is one target. And collecting a volley of 100 missiles on such a carrier is not realistic.

Quote: ramzay21

then we are quite capable of supplying about 300 Su-57s to the troops until the 30s. The Su-57, subject to timely upgrades, will be able to remain a modern aircraft until the 50s.

To do this, you need to stop all Sukhoi programs. And, I will note that the Su-57 does not yet exist as a complete combat complex. So there is nothing to produce yet.

Quote: ramzay21

The F-35 has a combat load of 9100 kg, while the Su-35 has 8 kg. And do you think that the combat load for a single-engine aircraft of 000 kg is not enough than that of our twin-engine?

9 tons? On all suspensions, including the outer one? And this is not my opinion. This is what the US thinks. It is because of this that all sorts of "hybrid links" are invented. They just understand perfectly well: in stealth mode, the Penguin is too weak, and in full weapons has no chance of returning from the battle.
And do not count the number of engines, count the thrust-to-weight ratio.

Quote: ramzay21

During the war in Iraq, and even more so in Yugoslavia, the F-35 was only being designed.

But there were Goblins and Spirits. Despite this, the overwhelming number of combat missions both there and there were made without any stealth freaks. 111 including.

Quote: ramzay21

But in Syria, the Israelis are so pleased with the results of the F-35 that they ordered more.

:) Israelis don't buy these planes. They receive them free of charge as part of military aid from the United States. If I were in the same situation, I would also order more. :) And he assured everyone that I really like everything. Besides, what are the Israelis doing in Syria? Are they attacking from the airspace of neighboring states? Let me remind you that they did the same from the F-16. And they were no less pleased.

Quote: ramzay21

In any case, we need to do this, and we need to create a single-engine light aircraft, based on the Su-57 developments, modifying and modernizing them.

In the USSR, the military abandoned the concept of a single-engine aircraft for a reason. Were NOT fools. They collected statistics and thought with their heads. I believe that people in the USSR worked for the defense industry no more stupid than the state workers, and it is not right to reject their decisions simply because "they did it in the USA".

Quote: ramzay21

To create a MiG-35 is to throw money away, a 40-year-old aircraft in 20 years will become 60 years old

You praise the Su-30. Which is almost 29 years older than the MiG-2M20. Nevertheless, consider it normal. :) MiG-29M2 (MiG-35) first took to the air in 2008. Where do you count 40 years?

Quote: ramzay21

Americans and other countries are already writing off its analogue F-16, and in 20 years they will only be in museums and in the air forces of African countries. And buying an airplane for 5 years is a crime.

Lockheed announced the resumption of production of the new Falcon on a NEW production line in May this year. And by a strange coincidence, the circumstance was declared not alone, but jointly with the Pentagon.
There are only a few countries in the world that have decided to purchase Penguins. And always in homeopathic doses due to the prohibitively high cost of purchasing and using this machine. In view of these facts, your words about writing off Falcons to museums raise a reasonable question: what instead?

[ramzay21]

The Israelis don't buy these planes. They receive them free of charge as part of military aid from the United States.

Why then did the Israelis not buy Abrams for free, but bother with their tank, is it better as well?

You can continue to think like our media, citing only the bad news of the F-35 program and pointlessly not noticing that the most outstanding aircraft of our time has grown before their eyes, on which only the most loyal allies of the United States stand in line. And our Su-35 is not needed by anyone, and the price for the Su-35 is higher than for the F-35.

[abc_alex]

Quote: ramzay21

Why then did the Israelis not buy Abrams for free, but bother with their tank, is it better as well?

I did not understand the essence of your objection. What do you deny? That the US is giving Penguins to Israelis for free? What does the Abrams have to do with it? The Israelis can choose from a certain list of military equipment that they will receive for free from the United States. Choosing planes. The US does not allow you to choose anything other than the Penguins. This is POLITICS.
Obviously, Israel does not need foreign tanks. Moreover, the Abrams. Apparently, there is an understanding that this type of military equipment must be produced on its territory. Your objections are completely out of topic.

Quote: ramzay21

You can continue to think like our media, citing only the bad news of the F-35 program.

You, in turn, are free to think like the advertising departments of Lohokid Martin, broadcasting tales and legends about their products. In the discussion between us, it is possible that objective reality will emerge.

Quote: ramzay21

the most outstanding aircraft of our time has grown before their eyes

So far, only its outstanding purchase price and flight hour for a single-engine fighter is objectively proven - $ 33-35 thousand. All other parameters are either never issued, or are known only from "developer statements" who have been repeatedly caught in a lie.

Quote: ramzay21

on which only the most loyal allies of the United States stand in line

You probably don't know. But the question is not about loyalty to the United States, but about participation in the project with money. At the very start of the project, the United States collected money around the world for its implementation in exchange for a promise to sell the aircraft upon exit and share production cooperation. That is why Turkey speaks of the UNLAWFULness of the US refusal to supply the Penguins. Since the United States is OBLIGED to do this under the terms of Turkey's participation in the contract.

Quote: ramzay21

And our Su-35 is not needed by anyone, and the price for the Su-35 is higher than for the F-35.

????? Why have you read there? The declared price of the Su-35 is about 2 billion rubles apiece. Divide by 70. We get $ 28 with kopecks.
At the same time, the OFFICIALLY announced price of the Penguins for 2019 (according to NYT), subject to large-scale production: F-35A - $ 83,4 million, F-35B - $ 108,1 million F-35C - 93,3 USD million


When you read on the Internet, you would not rush to conclusions. If you are talking about a Chinese contract, then read carefully: the price of more than 100 million apiece was obtained because the contract includes weapons, spare parts, ground equipment and personnel training. And the prices for the Penguins were announced for the US domestic market. For export (as shown, for example, by the Polish contract), the state employees supply aircraft without weapons and related equipment.

The latest Pentagon contract for the Penguins implies the delivery of 78 cars by 2023 for $ 4,7 billion.You can use your calculator if you don't believe mine, but it turns out more than $ 60 million apiece.
Do you consider it necessary for Russia to produce aircraft at such a price?

[ramzay21]

Quote: abc_alex

The Israelis can choose from a certain list of military equipment that they will receive for free from the United States. Choosing planes. The US does not allow you to choose anything other than the Penguins. This is POLITICS.

Complete nonsense. You apparently do not understand at all the level of relations between the United States and Israel. The United States allocates money to Israel, yes, but the Israelis choose what to fight on, and they choose the best, their opponents have a huge numerical superiority, and they cannot afford bad weapons and equipment.
On the F-35, they began to re-equip their Air Force only after a detailed acquaintance with the F-35 and its experimental operation. They were so impressed with the F-35 that they ordered additional aircraft. And on their F-35I, Israeli avionics and some types of weapons are installed, the Israelis considered that their avionics are better.

You, in turn, are free to think like the advertising departments of Lohokid Martin, broadcasting tales and legends about their products.

I prefer to read the opinions of the people who flew them, that is, the pilots. And they are delighted with this car.
News of the F-35 program is freely available, and Lockheed Martin is not afraid of negative news and results, on the contrary, they welcome criticism of the F-35 program and quickly correct their mistakes.
But the Su-57 program is closed and there is no bad news on it, and not because there is none, but because they are afraid to write it.

[ramzay21]

So far, only its outstanding purchase price and flight hour for a single-engine fighter is objectively proven - $ 33-35 thousand.

This price is for 2019 and it is decreasing, and will amount to 25 thousand.For comparison, the cost of an F-15 flight hour is 43 thousand, and the F-15 is comparable to the Su-35 in terms of flight performance.

The contract value of the Su-35 is approximately the same as in the Chinese contract as in the Malaysian one, and amounts to about 100 million. The price of the F-35 for the Lot-13 batch was already 79,2 million for the F-35A.