Military Review

Black Sea: NATO against Russia

127

Photo: yuhanson.livejournal.com


Our friend from the other side of the world, Sebastian Roblin, wrote an interesting article, translated here: https://inosmi.ru/military/20210726/250191177.html. In his work, he analyzed in detail five types of Russian ships that "can control the Black Sea." In his opinion.

Roblin's article turned out to be very objective, as always, however. But she immediately made her name think about whether our ships will really be able to control the entire Black Sea if necessary?

Therefore, I will make a small selection from Robley's article. So, "What are we rich with" on the Black Sea, if necessary?

1. Missile cruiser "Moscow".
2. Frigates of the type "Admiral Grigorovich" - 3 units.
3. Missile boats. A set of 10 ships (Project Lightning - 4 units, Project Sivuch - 2 units, Project Buyan-M - 4.).
4. Submarines of the Varshavyanka project - 6 units.

Plus ground infrastructure from anti-ship missile launchers, aviation, tactical missiles and ships, plus some support for the ships of the Caspian flotilla, which can "reach" with "Calibers" to targets in the Black Sea easily and naturally.

What will be against us in the event of a demonstration of forces with the subsequent disgrace with NATO forces?

We will not take into account the obligatory appearance on the stage of the USA and Great Britain, perhaps even the coming of Italy and France (they like to be on dancers), consider what is at the very first moment.

Romania, Bulgaria, Turkey.

If we consider a hypothetical local conflict in the Black Sea (it does not matter for what reason), then these three countries will get involved in it in the first place.

I don't think it's worth explaining that Bulgaria, no matter what the adherents of friendship between our two countries say (I am like this, believing that the Russian and the Bulgarian are brothers), but the Bulgarians will shoot. Because "Russian brothers" is one thing, but Bulgaria and the oath to her is quite another. By the way, ours will do the same. They will press the buttons without really thinking about it.

How many years have we lived with the Georgians? More precisely, are they with us? And nothing, they went on a visit, they were sick for Tbilisi "Dynamo", they drank peaches and wine very sincerely, resorts again ... And in 2008, how was it? Yes, because of friendship they did not reach Tbilisi. Although they could.

When an order comes, all warm and fraternal relations somehow become a sideline.

This means that a NATO member country will fit into the common bazaar and will not go anywhere. Especially with a government like this.

So what is the shock of the Black Sea neighbors?

Bulgaria



Three ancient Belgian Willingen-class frigates. Not even ancient - the oldest, for the construction of these ships began in 1976. And in 2005 Belgium sold three of the four ships to Bulgaria. The fourth was scrapped, which is significant overall.

These frigates are equipped with good, but old anti-ship missiles "Exoset". Considering that the missiles, most likely, are also not the latest modification, the combat value of these ships is negligible.

Three missile boats. One boat of the same as in our fleet, project 1241 "Molniya", and two boats of project 205 "Osa".


These boats were very good ... 50 years ago. Today it is somewhat doubtful.

That's all. Bulgaria no longer has attack ships. In general, it is very clever and convenient: it seems that there is a fleet, but there is no practical benefit from it. This means that you can not be substituted for any military operations in which losses may occur. But you can indicate your presence by firing several missiles from boats (if they reach the launch line).

Romania



Source: korabli.eu

Also three frigates. Two British buildings of the 80s Type 22 "Brodsward", the third (more precisely, the first) - of its own construction.


Source: korabley.net

"Maraseshti" was first a cruiser (in the 70s, when it was built), then a destroyer, eventually degraded to a frigate. A very strange ship.

These frigates are also armed with Exocets. With all the ensuing consequences.

There are four corvettes, but they do not carry strike weapons, they are purely anti-submarine ships.

Six missile boats from the last century: three projects 1241, three projects 205.


Theoretically, I repeat, these boats will be able to portray something like that. How realistic is this - the question. The P-15U "Termit" rockets were good half a century ago, but most likely they have simply gone rotten.

That's it, the Romanian Navy is slightly larger in composition, but about the same quality as that of Bulgaria. The combat value is questionable.


The only way you can use all this floating trash is as a diversion target, nothing more.

Turkey


Here everything is serious. When a country has money, when a country has a developed industry, this is very serious. Today, the Turkish military fleet is ahead of the German Navy in terms of tonnage, for example.

Submarines.


13 units. Five rather old boats of the "Atylai" project and four newer projects "Prevese" and "Gyur" each. The boats were built according to German designs and are very good warships. Although, in my opinion, they are weaker than the "Varshavyanka".

URO frigates.


16 units. Half are German MEKO 200, half are American Oliver Perry.


All frigates are armed with more modern anti-ship missiles "Harpoon" and represent a very decent striking force, since 96 "Harpoons" in one salvo is a lot.

URO corvettes.

10 units. 6 of them - French old "advice" A69 "D'Estienne d'Orves" built in the 70s. Armed with all the same "Exosets". 4 corvettes are Turkey's own construction according to a project developed in Ukraine.


Hell type. Armed with 8 anti-ship missiles "Harpoon" of the second iteration.

Missile boats.

Black Sea: NATO against Russia

19 units. All boats were built according to German projects at different times. The most modern (Type Kilic - 9 units, FPB-57 - 6 units) carry 8 "Harpoons" each and are not inferior to corvettes in this regard.


As a result, the Turkish fleet, assembled in one place, will be able to fire a salvo of 248 Harpoon anti-ship missiles. If we add to this the possibility of launching anti-ship missiles "Sub Harpoon" from Turkish submarines, then another 104 missiles will be added. A total of 352 anti-ship missiles.

Is this enough to neutralize the strike group of the Black Sea Fleet ships? More than. 25 missiles per surface ship is more than enough. Even for "Moscow".


Of course, Bal-type coastal launchers are also more than serious. weapon... But not only we have missile systems capable of shooting through the entire Black Sea, but what Turkey has is more than enough to solve almost all combat missions in the region. If we add here another 260 F-16 units of various modifications, which, in principle, is comparable to the fleet of similar vehicles in the Russian Aerospace Forces, then the Turkish armed forces and navy are the most serious adversaries in the region.

The Russian fleet also has teeth and can fire 16 P-1000 Vulcan monsters from Moscow in a salvo, frigates 11354 will be able to launch 24 Caliber, Varshavyanka will be able to fire another 36 Caliber from torpedo tubes, Buyans will be able to launch 32 "Caliber". "Sea lions" fire a volley of 16 anti-ship missiles "Moskit", the same amount is given by "Lightning".

In total, the Black Sea Fleet in one salvo can launch:
- 16 anti-ship missiles "Volcano";
- 92 "Caliber";
- 32 anti-ship missiles "Mosquito".


How it looks against the background of 352 Turkish "Harpoons" is a question. A question for the air defense and missile defense of ships. It is clear that the P-1000 Vulcan is a really fatal phenomenon for any ship. And how the S-300s will work against the "Harpoons" is also a very interesting moment. Most likely, the missiles of the S-300 complex will cope with the task of intercepting subsonic "Harpoons" quite normally. The only question is the number of both the first and the second.

In general, Roblin wrote a fairly objective article, showing the strengths of the Russian fleet. However, don't be too optimistic. If you look where a real threat can (and is) coming from, then, despite all the attempts to flirt with Turkey in the form of gas pipelines and anti-aircraft missile systems, tourist flows and tomatoes, it is worth remembering that this country is a full member of NATO. , which has the second largest army in the block in terms of quality and quantity.

And the capabilities of the Turkish fleet clearly exceed the capabilities of the Black Sea Fleet, if we compare only the capabilities of the ships, not taking into account other components. However, in terms of aviation and coastal complexes, Turkey does not look weak.

Speaking in general about the capabilities of the NATO bloc countries, of course, Bulgaria, Romania, Greece, the remnants of the former Yugoslavia - they are not in a position to have a significant impact on events in the region. But it is enough for Turkey and the representatives of the United States and Great Britain, inevitably appearing behind the Turks, for the balance of power in the region to shift towards the NATO countries.

A strike group of 15 ships of the Black Sea Fleet, which, according to Roblin, is capable of controlling the Black Sea, may turn out to be incapable of actually doing this when organizing the proper counteraction by NATO countries.

And here it may be most effective to replenish the ranks of the Black Sea Fleet with submarines and missile ships capable of carrying the most advanced missile weapons on board. The case when quantity can yield to quality.
Author:
127 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 5 August 2021 04: 43
    +4
    NATO countries demanded from Russia to withdraw recognition of the independence of Abkhazia and South Ossetia ... in addition to Roman's article.
    Since the contradictions with NATO have not gone anywhere and are only growing, it is only logical to expect some kind of local conflict ... it is possible that it will be in the Black Sea ... the Anglo-Saxons have already carried out reconnaissance in force ... we are waiting for the next strike.
    Roman's article is on this topic.
    1. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 5 August 2021 05: 06
      0
      And here it may be most effective to replenish the ranks of the Black Sea Fleet with submarines and missile ships capable of carrying the most advanced missile weapons on board.

      Does it mean hypersonic?
      yes
      I completely agree. An anti-ship weapon that shoots across the Black Sea along and across, against which there is no effective defense - a worthy replacement for a cold shower with hot (violently maddened) heads. In the near future, both coastal complexes and aviation can be carriers of such weapons.
      1. Civil
        Civil 5 August 2021 07: 28
        +8
        Staged, propaganda "confrontation" all this) gas, oil, wheat, metal - everything goes to NATO. In the same Turkey, millions of our tourists. I'm not talking about the "elite" passports.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 5 August 2021 15: 17
          +6
          Quote: Civil
          Staged, propaganda "confrontation" all this) gas, oil, wheat, metal - everything goes to NATO.

          80 years ago, oil, wheat and ore also went somewhere. And how did it end?
          And as for the vacationers - so ours and in Georgia have a rest (and have a rest).
          1. Civil
            Civil 5 August 2021 19: 44
            -2
            Quote: Alexey RA
            80 years ago, oil, wheat and ore also went somewhere. And how did it end?

            The country was different there, the money was returned back.
            And as for the vacationers - so ours and in Georgia have a rest (and have a rest).

            Yes? Did you rest in the 3rd Reich?
            Nothing to say about passports?
      2. mvg
        mvg 5 August 2021 10: 01
        .
        - a worthy replacement of a cold shower for hot (violently obsessed) heads

        And their hats, hats !!!
        As I understand it, the fashionable word "Halibr" has been replaced by a new, super-fashionable one - "hipsound". Previously, they were now "calibrated" with "hyper" .. Are there many hypersonic weapons at the Black Sea Fleet? Is there a lot in the Russian Navy too?
        Two Berks and one Daring are enough for the entire Black Sea Fleet. And the Turks will complete the destruction of the infrastructure. When it comes to "convection" weapons.
        PS: NATO will get involved in the next war with Georgia under one pretext or another. And because of Georgia, no one will use nuclear weapons. Rather, because of Abkhazia, which are neither to the village nor to the city. There are 50 thousand indigenous people left .. No production, beaches - sucks. Suitcase without handle
        1. bayard
          bayard 5 August 2021 22: 04
          +1
          Quote: mvg
          NATO will get involved in the next war with Georgia under one pretext or another.

          Are you sure that they need it so much?
          It is one thing to curtail the blood of the Kremlin through various non-brothers and former roommates, and quite another thing to get involved in a real war with a nuclear power. Rather, there will be again sanctions, political executions, bans on flags, hymns, language ... but not gas.
          Quote: mvg
          Rather, because of Abkhazia, which are neither to the village nor to the city. There are 50 thousand indigenous people left.

          It's just like a territory unrecognized by anyone - a suitcase without a handle, taking into account the payment of pensions from the Russian Federation. But if you go to the repeated requests of the suffering and include it in the composition, then very interesting topics for investment.
          Including tourist.
          And vineyards, fruits, military bases.
          Not peacekeepers' bases, but quite normal airfields, missile bases and a ground grouping.
          Oligarchs and officials will build dachas for themselves there ...
          The beaches will be put in order, boarding houses will be built with water parks ...
          If they want to.
          But the Kremlin doesn't want to.
          And business would not mind at all.
          1. mvg
            mvg 7 August 2021 20: 34
            -1
            This is throwing money into the void. They will simply be plundered. Another Chechnya, only without oil. Are there military bases there?
            Who is Abkhazia recognized as? Nicaragua? And that's all ... The rest of the world, even Old Man, considers this to be the territory of Georgia. Georgians will join NATO, train themselves and try again, working on mistakes
            1. bayard
              bayard 7 August 2021 22: 55
              +1
              Quote: mvg
              This is throwing money into the void.

              They are now thumping into emptiness - while it is unrecognized and independent. And when it becomes the next region of the Russian Federation, then the officials there will be appointed by the Kremlin, and the laws of the Russian Federation will be observed, and investors will come.
              They will come - there is climate, sea, landscape. They themselves will come and build everything themselves. And one more health resort will be added to the Russian Federation. And people will have jobs (like in Sochi), and they will sell fruit / wine to whom.
              It is more difficult with South Ossetia - it is beyond the ridge of the Caucasus, but when it becomes our own, then at least we will invest IN OURS.
              Quote: mvg
              The rest of the world, even Old Man, considers this to be the territory of Georgia.

              The old man is now changing the vector, so I won't be surprised at anything. He himself would have to return under the wing of Russia before it is too late.
              Quote: mvg
              ... Georgians will join NATO,

              No. bully Nope, they won't.
              They simply cannot - the charter does not allow territorial claims.
              Yes, and many will not want them there - who needs this crap?
              And the hegemon is not the same ... not at all the same ...
              Rather, the power will change there, and how, in the time of Queen Tamara, messengers will fly to the Mother See for peace and ask for mercy ... And even return to the Union ...
              Anything can happen .
              Quote: mvg
              get trained and try again, working on the bugs

              Again ?
              Is it to lose and surrender faster?
              They will be able to decide again on this only in two cases - when Russia will no longer exist, or when Russia will not be at all up to it.
              1. mvg
                mvg 8 August 2021 01: 05
                +2
                then the officials there will be put by the Kremlin, and the laws of the Russian Federation are observed, and investors will come.

                Yeah, an example of Chechnya is science ... And officials are appointed by the Kremlin and Sharia laws are not observed.
                They simply cannot - the charter does not allow territorial claims

                The charter is for that and the charter, in order to change or amend it. I know about territorial claims, but there are ways to get around them. For example, the status of a "special partner of NATO", as offered to the Brazilians. Yes, and the former republics of Yugoslavia also have claims to each other, BUT the Croats have already joined NATO since 2009.
                Is it to lose and surrender faster?

                I read a little differently that the RF Armed Forces did not reach Tiflis in a completely different way. Something like Turkey threatened to enter the war if Tbilisi falls. And the Ottomans are NATO members
                1. bayard
                  bayard 8 August 2021 02: 10
                  +2
                  Quote: mvg
                  Yeah, an example of Chechnya is science ... And officials are appointed by the Kremlin and Sharia laws are not observed.

                  Indeed, science is an example of Chechnya to many.
                  Instead of a bleeding ulcer, in this place is now a quite prosperous subject of the Federation, which not only does not undermine the integrity of the country, but on the contrary has become its fastener (no matter how pretentious it may sound) and a power support - Chechen militiamen and "National Guards" are serving and fighting in Syria , volunteers from Chechnya fought in the Donbass in the first phase, and Ramzan more than once instilled fear in the sons of Bandera, freed the hostages ... It was and I remember about it.
                  And the fact that the Caucasus behaves this way in Russian cities ... so the Dagestanis, perhaps, are more posed.
                  They found a common language with Chechnya, and at one time they drank enough war to assess who they were doing business with.
                  The Caucasus respects strength, I served there under the Union and later communicated with Caucasians ...
                  And what gossip about this, if Dudaev's own nephew was an advisor to the Guarantor for how many years he was ... and even now it is not without favor.
                  Quote: mvg
                  The charter is for that and the charter, in order to change or correct it.

                  That is unlikely .
                  Quote: mvg
                  For example, the status of a "special partner of NATO", as offered to the Brazilians.

                  There is a special interest in Brazil - the United States is increasing the supply of liquefied gas there, this market is important to them - prices there are so much higher than European ones that the United States has stopped supplying its gas to Europe altogether. And Qatar, by the way, also stopped deliveries to Europe - gas prices in Southeast Asia and South America are much higher than European ones.
                  But why am I?
                  Recently, Gazprom has been negotiating a long-term contract for the supply of LNG to Brazil for a period of at least 15 years ... Which competes with US gas, which is much worse in quality and higher in price. smile
                  Now do you understand why the United States so hastily offered Brazil a NATO partnership?
                  This is unfair competition - everything is as usual.
                  Quote: mvg
                  BUT Croats are already in NATO since 2009.

                  Croats have fought in the name of NATO since the early 90s.
                  They fought with the Serbs - with their half-brothers. The difference between them is only in faith and superstition - some serve Rome and kill, others ... just defended themselves and their country.

                  Quote: mvg
                  I read a little differently that the RF Armed Forces did not reach Tiflis in a completely different way. Something like Turkey threatened to enter the war if Tbilisi falls. And the Ottomans are NATO members

                  Do you believe that today the Turks will decide to go to war with the Russian Federation?
                  Not then, NOW?
                  They have some views of the south of Georgia ...
                  Well, we also have such views.
                  And right.
                  And we didn't really interfere with the Turks to beat the Armenians in Karabakh, when those shores were lost ...
                  Do you believe in the loyalty of Armenians?
                  And what about the Georgians?
                  And what if the Russian Federation rehabilitates Stalin's name and returns his name to the cities and streets?
                  Not the communists, led by Zyuganov, who discredited everything that was possible, but simply ... grateful citizens of the country?
                  Not the hegemon now.
                  And the retired mistress of the sea is also not the same.
                  The world is not at all the same.
                  And you tell me about the formidable Georgians with the Turks lol behind the back .
          2. vindigo
            vindigo 15 September 2021 15: 41
            0
            It won't work. All will be plundered. Wrong people. It is better to include the DPRK in Russia.
            1. bayard
              bayard 15 September 2021 16: 56
              0
              Any nation like a child - without severity and exemplary punishment for misconduct - PORTS.
              An example of this is the entire post-Soviet space.
              And it's not so difficult to fix everything, for this, the power must simply become POWER ... I'm not talking about specific characters from the top administration, I'm talking about power, like parents in a family.
              And the State is like a Family.
              It was like that.
              And so - rightly so.
              But this is not.
              Comrade Stalin was an outstanding expert on national issues.
              Do you remember?
              That's right - that's right.
              It was just then that people were elevated to power of a completely different quality and VARIETY of people.
              Quote: vindigo
              Nothing will work.

              It will turn out EVERYTHING.
              For there is no other alternative.
        2. ZAV69
          ZAV69 6 August 2021 11: 33
          +2
          Burks and Dering are the United States and Great Britain, nuclear powers. This is no longer a minor conflict, this is a full-fledged war. The matter will come to ICBMs at once. Do you think there are fools and suicides there?
          1. mvg
            mvg 7 August 2021 20: 35
            0
            It depends on what the conflict starts. If for the Georgians, nuclear weapons will not be used.
            I just really appreciated the current capabilities of the Black Sea Fleet.
            1. ZAV69
              ZAV69 7 August 2021 20: 48
              +1
              And no one will sign for Georgians, so the UN will raise the stench and that's it.
      3. Ryusey
        Ryusey 5 August 2021 10: 37
        0
        Not for the next, at best, medium-term.
    2. pyagomail.ru
      pyagomail.ru 5 August 2021 10: 03
      +5
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      We are waiting for where the next blow will be struck.

      Roman S has written correctly about Bulgaria and Romania. About Turkey - the question: why should Turkey attack Russia? "Great Turan" to create on the lands of Tatarstan and Bashkiria? Crimea to take away and give to Ukraine? Help Georgia? Or Turkey, having received an order from Washington, will say: "Yes!" and will go to war, realizing that as a result, little will remain of Turkey, and all the buns (Crimea and Turan) will not go to her? I think it is more interesting for Erdogan to work with Azerbaijan, to somehow get through to Central Asia ...
      1. Ryusey
        Ryusey 5 August 2021 10: 40
        +2
        And what about Russian interests there?
        1. pyagomail.ru
          pyagomail.ru 5 August 2021 16: 04
          +2
          Quote: Ryusey
          And what about Russian interests there?

          I think it is enough for us that our neighbors, the former Soviet republics (the Caucasus, Central Asia), are not hostile to Russia. Of course, by themselves they do not pose a great military threat to Russia. Normal relations, trade, tourism, mutually beneficial joint projects. You should not tie them strongly to yourself, otherwise they will sit on your neck. If they want to be friends with Turkey, they have the right, but if only not against Russia.
      2. arkadiyssk
        arkadiyssk 5 August 2021 12: 55
        +4
        Roman has nothing written correctly. All this is nonsense and inventions. Unfortunately, the novel does not even know about the existence of the NATO Standing Forces, at least in its naval component (NATO STANDING NAVAL FORCES) - i.e. and ships and mine action teams, how they work and how they are deployed and reinforced. To analyze the fleets of the Black Sea countries without mentioning at least SNMG2 and SNMCMG2 is the author's naivety and amateurism. You can just go to the trash heap at once with all the conclusions about - we are their calibers, against their harpoons.
        1. pyagomail.ru
          pyagomail.ru 5 August 2021 16: 08
          +1
          Quote: arkadiyssk
          Roman has nothing written correctly

          About the fleets of Bulgaria and Romania - right. Another thing (and it seemed to me so) that, if anything, then serious NATO countries will fight with us in the Black Sea - I hope they will not.
      3. Flyer_64
        Flyer_64 5 August 2021 17: 06
        0
        Quote: pyagomail.ru
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        We are waiting for where the next blow will be struck.

        About Turkey - the question: why should Turkey attack Russia? "Great Turan" to create on the lands of Tatarstan and Bashkiria? Crimea to take away and give to Ukraine? Help Georgia? Or Turkey, having received an order from

        The Crimean War of 1853-1856, or the Eastern War, or the Russian War, is a war between the Russian Empire, on the one hand, and a coalition of the British, French, Ottoman empires and the Sardinian kingdom, on the other. The fighting unfolded in the Caucasus, in the Danube principalities, in the Baltic, Black, Azov, White and Barents Seas, as well as in the lower reaches of the Amur, Kamchatka and the Kuriles. They reached the greatest tension in the Crimea, so in Russia the war was called "Crimean". You see no analogy. The war was essentially started by Britain. Now, too, there is something to cling to (Crimea, Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Kaliningrad Oblast, Kuriles) and to unleash similar military operations against Russia according to this scenario.
        1. pyagomail.ru
          pyagomail.ru 5 August 2021 20: 10
          +1
          Quote: Letun_64
          Crimean War of 1853-1856 years

          Wars do not take place according to tradition, but for the solution of someone's interests. And here, if, of course, the enemy is not, he calculates what he will receive and at what cost. If the price is high, then they will not get involved. The results of the Crimean War, in general, were not terrible for Russia, and they did not give much for the coalition, perhaps only Turkey was the winner. What do you think, if they try, they will not receive increased radiation on their territory?
          1. Flyer_64
            Flyer_64 5 August 2021 23: 04
            +1
            Quote: pyagomail.ru
            After all, wars do not take place according to tradition, but to solve someone's interests.

            There are goals, both strategic and tactical. Strategic is to knock Russia out of the UN Security Council by unleashing a war in the region, tactical NATO's entry to the border with Russia and taking control of the entire region. It is only in doctrines that they can write about a primitive nuclear strike, in fact, this is a club that is simply waving. Now there will be no such thing as in 2008. In any case, Russia will be made an outcast and persecuted from all sides, the teams are waiting.
            1. pyagomail.ru
              pyagomail.ru 6 August 2021 07: 59
              +4
              Quote: Letun_64
              There are goals, both strategic and tactical.

              1. In the event of a major war, the UN will end, as the League of Nations ended at the beginning of WW2,
              2. NATO is already on the border with Russia,
              3. I am sure that in the event of a major war, Russia will use special ammunition,
              4. "Outcast" from Russia is made by the United States with jackals, by no means the whole world, so we will break through.
  2. AC130 Ganship
    AC130 Ganship 5 August 2021 04: 45
    +6
    Except as with Ukraine on the Black Sea, Russia really has no one to grapple with. With Russia, the Turks are much more profitable not to swear and slowly pull the blanket of Azerbaijan over themselves.
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 5 August 2021 04: 56
      +4
      Russia will not really cling to Ukraine ... Ukraine has nothing to cling to except river boats with Russia ... there is also the rusty hetman Sagaidachny at the pier and that's it.
    2. Pessimist22
      Pessimist22 5 August 2021 04: 59
      +5
      The non-brothers have no fleet, the stern of the armored boats.
      1. Egoza
        Egoza 5 August 2021 06: 28
        0
        Quote: Pessimist22
        The non-brothers have no fleet, the stern of the armored boats.

        So they hope that Europa will help them. Vaughn, Britain will drive two decommissioned anti-mine ships after repairs, then someone else will drive their trash. "With the world on a string - Ukraine has a fleet" The main thing is that all admirals will be
      2. Andrey Chizhevsky
        Andrey Chizhevsky 5 August 2021 07: 10
        -2
        For example, the Sumerian-Ukrov have boats standing as monuments on pedestals, in memory of the Great Patriotic War, if they are also included in the "mighty fleet" of Ukraine ...
    3. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 5 August 2021 05: 12
      +1
      Quote: AC130 Ganship
      Except as with Ukraine on the Black Sea, Russia really has no one to grapple with.

      If Ukraine begins to cling to the Black Sea with Russia, it will remain in the form (your source):
  3. jonht
    jonht 5 August 2021 05: 21
    +10
    It is strange that Roman takes into account the entire fleet of Turkey, but the presence of our ships from other fleets in Tartus is not. The Turks also have to divide the fleet into 2 parts, the Black Sea and the Mediterranean. So the analytical work has not been completed, there are omissions. Although if we take the comparison head-on and without nuances, then .... Perhaps everything is so. hi
    1. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock 5 August 2021 05: 50
      +10
      Quote: jonht
      The novel takes into account the entire fleet of Turkey, but the presence of our ships from other fleets in Tartus is not.

      Well, Tartus can be covered by the fleets of Britain, Italy, France, Greece, America ... where the Turks can not even strain.
      1. jonht
        jonht 5 August 2021 08: 22
        +1
        But what about the part of Cyprus and Greece?
        So, about not to strain you in vain. Not everything is clear and smooth there.
        1. Jacket in stock
          Jacket in stock 5 August 2021 09: 38
          +2
          Quote: jonht
          But what about the part of Cyprus and Greece?

          Well, if it comes to a war with Russia, Greece will send its frigates to the Turks to help.
          1. Sergey Aleksandrovich
            Sergey Aleksandrovich 5 August 2021 19: 09
            -1
            That is unlikely.
  4. Vladimir Vladimirovich Vorontsov
    Vladimir Vladimirovich Vorontsov 5 August 2021 05: 26
    -8
    ***
    "And the Dnieper will flow into the Pontus sea with three zherela, the sea hedgehog will say Ruskoe ..." ...
    ---
    Increase the time.
    ***
    Do not swim for the buoys!
    ***
    We are for the fact that in the Black Sea
    The ships did not sink ...
    ***
  5. Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 5 August 2021 05: 36
    +6
    But generally funny.
    Although no, rather sad.
    One not the most industrially developed country is trying to compete with a whole bloc of dozens of countries, among which there are those who surpass us even alone.
    Thank God it’s not a war, and thanks to the cannibals of Stalin and Beria and our scientists and engineers that we have nuclear weapons.
    1. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 5 August 2021 07: 36
      +1
      Quote: Jacket in stock
      But generally funny.
      Although no, rather sad.

      Very sad, actually.

      - 16 anti-ship missiles "Volcano"; - production ended in 1992, they are at least 30 years old, they are more dangerous to carrier ships.
      - 92 "Caliber"; - it is not clear why they are here, they will be able to work on ground targets, if they are lucky.
      - 32 anti-ship missiles "Mosquito". - at least something relatively fresh (though it is not known which ones are on the Black Sea Fleet)

      In reality, the total salvo is 10 times less than only the Turkish one. True, it is not clear why the Turks should expose their fleet even under a theoretical blow, their ground complexes and the Air Force will be more than enough. In the near future, they will give up battles on the Black Sea to unmanned boats and submarines.
      One project completes tests.

      Another was announced.
      1. jonht
        jonht 5 August 2021 08: 32
        +4
        And you are not a volley, consider, but for example the speed and range of missiles. Exoset 180-240 km, harpoon up to 260-280 km and both are subsonic.
        Volcano according to various sources up to 800 km and supersonic, anti-ship Caliber up to 600 km according to various sources and more than 3M in the final section.
        Mosquito up to 240 km and supersonic ...
        Aviation Dagger, X-59, X-35.
        Ball the same roughly X-35 up to 300 km
        Bastion - Onyx according to various sources from 600 to 800 km.
        So it's not a fact that everyone who enters the raid will reach the place where they can shoot ... hi
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 5 August 2021 15: 22
        +3
        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
        - 92 "Caliber"; - it is not clear why they are here, they will be able to work on ground targets, if they are lucky.

        In the "caliber" family, in addition to the 3M-14 SLCM, there is also the 3M-54 anti-ship missile system. It's just that 3M-14 is somehow more "on the ear".
        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
        - 32 anti-ship missiles "Mosquito". - at least something relatively fresh

        Discontinued in 2014
      3. Grits
        Grits 11 September 2021 14: 36
        0
        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
        In reality, the total salvo is 10 times less than only the Turkish one

        There is a small nuance here - the range of this very salvo. After all, in order for the Turkish ships to approach the possibility of striking our ships with their Harpoons (I generally keep quiet about the Exocet), they will already be safely in the zone of destruction of the Volcanoes from Moscow and Calibers at this time. This is even if we leave the bastions outside the brackets. So it turns out that Turkey has two pistols, but they shoot at 10 meters, while Russia has one pistol, but shoots at 20 meters.
        But the whole balance of power will completely change the Zircon.
    2. Terenin
      Terenin 5 August 2021 08: 23
      +10
      Quote: Jacket in stock
      One not the most industrially developed country is trying to compete with a whole bloc of dozens of countries, among which there are those who surpass us even alone.

      That's right, someone is funny, but someone is sad winked
      At the same time, the facts and nervous gestures of the West indicate that the Russian economy manages to sustainably maintain the necessary military power and realize its military-economic potential in the measure and timeframe determined by the state's military doctrine.
  6. carstorm 11
    carstorm 11 5 August 2021 05: 38
    +3
    The math is a little weird. The Turkish fleet of the 4th sea has a zone of responsibility, right? Mediterranean, Marmara, Aegean, Black. Which means in reality in one place they will not be able to collect the entire composition, even if you do not twist. Or do I not really understand something?
    1. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock 5 August 2021 05: 47
      +7
      Quote: carstorm 11
      Mediterranean, Marmara, Aegean, Black.

      And who will they fight in the Sea of ​​Marmara?
    2. Lazycrazy
      Lazycrazy 12 August 2021 13: 56
      0
      Why can't they? What will stop them?
  7. rocket757
    rocket757 5 August 2021 06: 11
    +2
    Everything rests on the fact that everyone should understand that for any aggressor towards Russia, the consequences will be catastrophic, even fatal in general.
    And how else can you consider the option of attacking a vigorous power!?!?!?
    1. tlauicol
      tlauicol 5 August 2021 06: 23
      +8
      Quote: rocket757
      .
      And how else can you consider the option of attacking a vigorous power!?!?!?

      nuclear powers have conducted hundreds of military conflicts without the use of nuclear weapons, incl. full-scale wars
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 5 August 2021 07: 50
        -1
        List .... maybe I do not know what ???
        1. tlauicol
          tlauicol 5 August 2021 07: 58
          +6
          Quote: rocket757
          List .... maybe I do not know what ???

          Do you know the Indo-Pakistani wars? Afghan, Falklands, USA?
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 5 August 2021 08: 06
            +8
            You can remember Israel as the most ... tense case.
            It is worth paying attention only to the Indo-Pakistani conflict ...
            There were so many conversations, explanations, disputes ... it makes no sense to repeat myself. Most often, the thesis is repeated that the protracted conflict, which does not seriously threaten either side, does not provoke the use of such a radical weapon.
            The rest, pf-e, does not require explanations, in view of the absence ... there is nothing to consider there.
            1. tlauicol
              tlauicol 5 August 2021 08: 11
              +2
              Those. Your words about "any aggressor" can not be taken seriously? Or Turks, Georgians all sorts of going to Moscow all the way to the Urals?
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 5 August 2021 08: 22
                0
                I agree, my cant .... in your "great-power frenzy" you stop taking seriously someone less than ... in short, you forget about the "small" ones.
        2. Ryusey
          Ryusey 5 August 2021 10: 47
          +1
          And also Korea, Vietnam, etc.
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 5 August 2021 11: 04
            +1
            Korea and Vietnam which side? They did not have a vigorous one, at the time of the conflict, Vietnam does not have it now. They defended themselves as best they could.
            We are discussing the issue of who will / can use extreme weapons to PROTECT against an attack, and not what the attacker can use.
    2. Yaroslav Zhigulin
      Yaroslav Zhigulin 5 August 2021 08: 50
      +2
      Falklands .... attacked
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 5 August 2021 09: 09
        +3
        How can they attack someone, it's just islands .... even if it is a disputed territory for two states.
    3. Ryusey
      Ryusey 5 August 2021 10: 45
      0
      Why all of a sudden, and you hesitate to ask not from the glaziers wake up?
      Eat More Chocolate-Brains Stimulates ...
  8. Hazarov
    Hazarov 5 August 2021 06: 20
    .
    All this is crap! For one simple reason. There is no account of the possibility of using electronic warfare means! And if you take this into account, then Russia has no enemy in the Black Sea! Not a single country in the region and even all countries in the region have such opportunities! One Rostov nuclear power plant has at least 6 GW of capacity, and only we in this region can pump electronic warfare with such power that even the Balkans and Asia Minor will die out! We won't finish Syria, but we'll put out the hell out of Chimeria, Mithridates and the Balkans! Therefore, it does not matter what the Turks have in a volley! It is important that we have a volley and that our volley will definitely fly!
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 5 August 2021 07: 52
      +5
      It's not even funny .... although, humor is different.
      1. Hazarov
        Hazarov 5 August 2021 11: 20
        -9
        And no one is joking! The Ukrainians have the power to rock electronic warfare! But who will give them to do this? Americans are not sitting behind Ukrainians in blakitchin! They need their energy to fight Russia! But Russia does not allow them to use it on electronic warfare gadgets, and it breaks the Ukrainian energy, so that if not us, then no one!
        Here is such a squiggle!
        Nord Stream 2 is not only gas and oil past the Hollows, but also a collapse of the Ukrainian energy sector! And without it, the Americans do not need Ukraine! Therefore, the brawn is spinning like in a frying pan!
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 5 August 2021 11: 29
          +4
          I will not specify where the porridge is ... interfering in one pile of electronic warfare, with the methods / methods of remote subversive activities that can be carried out over long distances, is probably not worth it.
          Oh yes, we must remember that any stick has at least two ends!
    2. Ryusey
      Ryusey 5 August 2021 10: 50
      +4
      Well, before they threw their caps so that they chilled the brain, you need to take care of yourself, and then suddenly there is a war and you are without a hat and still with a frozen brain.
      1. Hazarov
        Hazarov 5 August 2021 11: 06
        -7
        Go learn the math! Losers!
  9. 2 Level Advisor
    2 Level Advisor 5 August 2021 06: 49
    +8
    except for the Turks - the rest are on the list for "tick" - + 5% to the strength of the Turks all together .. in addition, if necessary, the NATO countries can increase their grouping in the Black Sea .. therefore the message of the article is not entirely clear .. the war with the Turks is one / with NATA other ..
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 5 August 2021 07: 52
      +2
      In, in, what by such an analysis did they want to say, to prove?
  10. mark1
    mark1 5 August 2021 07: 08
    +3
    In general, there is nothing to be measured with stems - to drown and threaten with the whole power of the state and not with the Black Sea corps de battalion ...
    It is very convenient for the Westerners to reduce everything to the confrontation of their combined forces with the local (as if isolated) formations of the Russian Armed Forces, and leave everything else behind the scenes and try to impose their point of view on us.
    1. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock 5 August 2021 07: 48
      +2
      Quote: mark1
      to drown and threaten with all the power of the state and not with the Black Sea corps de battalion ...

      Well, let's calculate all the power.
      In the north, NATO has a much larger fleet.
      In the Pacific, Japan alone has a much larger fleet.
      Unless we are in chocolate in the Caspian, and it is not known who the Azeris will shoot at, they will probably count on a calculator and decide that it is somehow more promising to be friends with NATO.
      1. mark1
        mark1 5 August 2021 08: 02
        -5
        Yes, yes ... only NATy's "peacefulness" saves us ... but now they will get angry! ...
        You count on calculators as your kids (or granddaughters).
        1. Jacket in stock
          Jacket in stock 5 August 2021 09: 27
          +1
          Quote: mark1
          Yes, yes ... only NATy's "peacefulness" saves us ... but now they will get angry! ...

          Saves?
          Yes, they have already defeated us in 1991. If you don’t remember, it doesn’t mean that it didn’t happen.
          And now it is simply more profitable for them to trade with us than to fight.
          1. mark1
            mark1 5 August 2021 09: 33
            -3
            They defeated YOU (they surrendered themselves with happiness on their face)
            Quote: Jacket in stock
            And now it is simply more profitable for them to trade with us than to fight.

            A list of approved products at an approved price.
            1. Jacket in stock
              Jacket in stock 5 August 2021 09: 48
              +2
              Quote: mark1
              They defeated YOU

              Well, now let's count who was where in the eighties and who was how old?
              1. mark1
                mark1 5 August 2021 10: 00
                +3
                Who cares who was where in the 80s! I well remember a very small category of people who were ready even then to surrender for sausage and I remember how such people happily danced on the bones of the USSR to the spoiled melody of the anthem on New Year's Eve 91/92 m. So they were defeated.
                1. Jacket in stock
                  Jacket in stock 5 August 2021 12: 41
                  +3
                  Quote: mark1
                  What's the difference

                  But for me there is a difference when someone points a finger at me.
                  Henceforth, I ask you to behave yourself.
                  1. mark1
                    mark1 5 August 2021 13: 27
                    +4
                    Listen, Jacket, I lived in those years and it was enough for me, but where were you then, that's not important - the proximity of your arguments and views with the described subjects is important
                    1. Jacket in stock
                      Jacket in stock 5 August 2021 13: 39
                      +3
                      Quote: mark1
                      I lived in those years and years were enough for me

                      Means just won YOU.

                      I wonder where my position is close to those who happily danced on the bones of the USSR? The fact that I'm not trying to get out of here?
                      So in my age it is no longer shameful to "dare to have your own judgment."
                      1. mark1
                        mark1 5 August 2021 13: 43
                        +2
                        Quote: Jacket in stock
                        Means just won YOU.

                        By no means - defeated those who mentally surrendered
                        Quote: Jacket in stock
                        Means just won YOU.
            2. Ryusey
              Ryusey 5 August 2021 10: 53
              -4
              Hey, stop balabolit, get off the couch and blow into the SAR, prove there that you are so formidable, otherwise bedsores from the couch will appear soon.
              1. mark1
                mark1 5 August 2021 13: 28
                +5
                No need to poke adults - ishsho young
          2. The comment was deleted.
      2. Terenin
        Terenin 5 August 2021 08: 39
        +5
        Quote: Jacket in stock
        Quote: mark1
        to drown and threaten with all the power of the state and not with the Black Sea corps de battalion ...

        Well, let's calculate all the power.
        In the north, NATO has a much larger fleet.
        In the Pacific, Japan alone has a much larger fleet.
        Unless we are in chocolate in the Caspian, and it is not known who the Azeris will shoot at, they will probably count on a calculator and decide that it is somehow more promising to be friends with NATO.

        Well, what follows from this?
        I will not talk about A. Macedonsky, with his zero economy before the campaign, but Kim, our Jong-un, with his recent mockery of the super-duper US naval military armada and Trump's trolling, I will remind you. And, CHO they were blown away then, in the calculator it is not written?
        1. Jacket in stock
          Jacket in stock 5 August 2021 09: 32
          +1
          Quote: Terenin
          , and what follows from this?

          Only that you need to have an asymmetric answer. For it is not realistic for us to simply equal the number of weapons with them.
          Our weapons must be better and more powerful.
          And thank our ancestors, we have this - long-range missiles with nuclear warheads.
          1. Terenin
            Terenin 5 August 2021 14: 13
            +4
            Quote: Jacket in stock
            Only that you need to have an asymmetric answer.

            What do you mean by "asymmetric response"? If, then what everyone knows, then what does SDI have to do with it?

            Quote: Jacket in stock
            For it is not realistic for us to simply equal the number of weapons with them.
            Nobody is going to do this since the time of AV Suvorov "Fight not by number ...."

            Quote: Jacket in stock
            Our weapons must be better and more powerful.

            And so it is.

            Quote: Jacket in stock
            And thank our ancestors, we have this - long-range missiles with nuclear warheads.

            Yes. Pride and Eternal Glory!
  11. Maximillian von Adelheid
    Maximillian von Adelheid 5 August 2021 07: 13
    +4
    Militaristic masturbation is great! Bulgarian pepper in your hollow! From the heart, brotherly !!! wink
  12. Trapperxnumx
    Trapperxnumx 5 August 2021 08: 00
    +3
    Otherwise, of course, we don't need the Bosphorus. Why do we need it?

    - Peace after victory? - said Baskakov. - Well, it's a good thing. We will conquer Constantinople. Well, just like we absolutely need this Constantinople! Otherwise we'll conquer Berlin. I ask you, - here Baskakov pointed his finger at a pockmarked peasant with a bridle, who made his way to the podium, - I ask: what do you have a German or a Turk on loan, or something, have they taken it and are not giving it back? Well, tell me, dear man, what business can you have in Constantinople? What, are you going to take potatoes to the market there? Why are you silent?

    The pockmarked peasant blushed, blinked, and, spreading his arms, answered in a high, indignant voice:

    - Yes, I do not need him at all ... But why did he surrender to me?

    - You do not need, well, I do not need and they do not need anyone! And the merchants need it to trade it, you see, it was more profitable. So they need it, let them conquer. And what does the man have to do with it? Why did they drive half of your village to the front? So that the merchants rake in profits! You fools, fools! Big, bearded, and anyone can twist you around his finger.
    A. Gaidar. School

    Dada, only merchants and fools needed both Constantinople and the Straits ... The kings, they are well-known fools who dreamed of taking possession of the Straits ...
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 5 August 2021 15: 35
      +5
      Quote: Trapper7
      Dada, only merchants and fools needed both Constantinople and the Straits

      In all fairness, the main reason for the constant desire of the Empire to take control of the Straits was economic. The straits were one of the main export routes for Russia: from 1903 to 1912, exports through them accounted for 37% of the total exports of the empire. In 1911, goods worth 1591 million rubles were exported through the Straits from the total export in the amount of 568 million rubles.
      Moreover, these are general figures. And in grain exports, the share of the Straits was 60-80%.
      All the time, the Russian export trade is under fear for the Straits ... Do not forget that our grain export currently reaches one and a half billion rubles, with sixty percent going through the Black Sea ... could lead to a real disaster for Russia.
      © Member of the State Council N.S. Avdakov
      And as soon as Turkey closed the Straits in 1912, the Empire immediately began to incur monthly losses in the amount of about 30 million rubles.
      According to the Ministry of Finance, in 1912, Russia's exports through the Black Sea fell from 568 million rubles. in the previous year to 433 million rubles, and its trade balance was 100 million rubles less than in the previous three years due to unsatisfactory harvest sales, one of the main reasons for which was precisely the closure of the Straits.

      In short, for the Empire, Turkey with its Straits was like Ukraine with its transit pipelines for the Russian Federation.
  13. Trapperxnumx
    Trapperxnumx 5 August 2021 08: 08
    +3
    Our friend from the other side of the world, Sebastian Roblin, wrote an interesting article, translated here: https://inosmi.ru/military/20210726/250191177.html. In his work, he analyzed in detail five types of Russian ships that "can control the Black Sea." In his opinion.

    It's a pity, I can't get to know it.

    This page is not on our website
    The link you came from is incorrect or the page has been removed since your last visit.
  14. tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 5 August 2021 08: 31
    +1
    With NATO, you don't compete in the number of ships, which means we develop within the limits of the possible maritime component and focus mainly on coastal weapons. We are starting or have already begun to prepare Medium-range missiles. The possibility of retaliating against the enemy's decision-making centers is sobering.
    1. Lazycrazy
      Lazycrazy 12 August 2021 14: 03
      0
      And they will start preparing their own.
  15. alstr
    alstr 5 August 2021 08: 41
    +5
    About Turkey.
    First, first, let's look at where the main base of the Navy is - Right in the Sea of ​​Marmara.
    Those. the transfer of forces to the Black Sea will be noticed.
    Shooting is possible from there, but then why bother with the Navy.

    Secondly, why let something into the ships, when it is enough to shoot the fool into the canal and the issue with Turkey will be resolved. and the issue of interference from other countries will also be resolved.

    Thirdly, the issue of coastal air defense is not well taken into account. In addition to the S-300 / S-400 itself, there are also shells and other means, not to mention electronic warfare.
  16. Alexander Pseudonym
    Alexander Pseudonym 5 August 2021 09: 41
    -1
    I read the article. It is a pity that the author did not consider the question of what will happen in the event of a conflict between Russia and the NATO countries, if Turkey closes the passage through the Bosphorus.
  17. iouris
    iouris 5 August 2021 10: 52
    -3
    Well yes. NATO against Russia. Are other options possible? For the past hundred years, Russia has been regularly defeating itself.
  18. pytar
    pytar 5 August 2021 11: 03
    +2
    With all due respect to the author R. Skomorokhov, this article is sucked from the fingers. An armed conflict in the Black Sea between NATO and the Russian Federation will quickly turn into a thermonuclear one and the entire planet will be burned. Therefore, it will not be, from the word at all!
    As for Bulgaria, she will not participate in any conflicts, except if someone does not attack her. From the side of the Russian Federation, this is meaningless, but from the side of the "ally" Turkey, under certain circumstances, it is quite real! Bulgaria is a completely unstable member of NATO, temporarily and by force being in the union. In 2004/14 years after the collapse of the ATS / Bulgaria entered NATO not against Russia, but for protection from Turkey.
    Romania has a fundamental conflict with the Russian Federation in Moldova / Transnistria /. But the Romanians likewise will not get involved in any exacerbation. Moreover, Romania will take an anti-Russian position in the future.
    As for Turkey, Ankara's expansionist, revanchist, neo-Ottoman policy, put it in the position of Russia's fundamental enemy. Both countries cooperate tactically where it is in their interests, but strategically they have been, are and will be opponents. Despite Turkey’s NATO membership, Turkey’s policy is not approved by many member countries of the Union! NATO will not "stand to death" for Turkish interests!
    In all cases, fierce battles, in the sense of the stat, will not be!
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 5 August 2021 15: 40
      +2
      Quote: pytar
      As for Bulgaria, she will not participate in any conflicts, except if someone does not attack her.

      I am afraid that the position of Bulgaria in the hypothetical conflict will be determined not in Sofia, but in Brussels.
      Quote: pytar
      In 2004/14 years after the collapse of the ATS / Bulgaria entered NATO not against Russia, but for protection from Turkey.

      Ummm ... Bulgaria entered NATO to protect itself from Turkey - despite the fact that Turkey had already fought a NATO member before? belay
      A cunning plan, what is already there.
      1. pytar
        pytar 5 August 2021 16: 44
        +2
        I am afraid that the position of Bulgaria in hypothetical conflict will be determined not in Sofia, but in Brussels.

        1. Keyword hypothetical!!! You can also fight the Martians if that ... practice. lol 2. NATO is not a monolith with the center of Brussels.
        Ummm ... Bulgaria entered NATO to protect itself from Turkey - despite the fact that Turkey had already fought a NATO member before?

        Which member of NATO fought Turkey, do you remember? belay
        A cunning plan, what is already there.

        It is quite natural, inevitable decision in the situation after the collapse of the Department of Internal Affairs.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 5 August 2021 20: 21
          +2
          Quote: pytar
          Which NATO member Turkey fought with, do you remember?

          Including with Greece represented by ELDIK.
          In that war, ELDIC lost 47 officers and soldiers killed and 58 missing.
          1. pytar
            pytar 5 August 2021 20: 35
            +2
            Including with Greece represented by ELDIK.

            This is in Cyprus, a country not a NATO member. When the situation got hotter and there was a real threat from the war between the Resp. Greece and Rep. Turkey, NATO harshly warned both sides, quickly cooling their war dust. We can assume what would have happened if Greece and Turkey were not members of the Union! Fact - during the existence of NATO, there has not been a single military conflict between its members. That does not exclude the occurrence of such a conflict in the future. Mainly because of the aggressive policy of Turkey, which in recent years has been in NATO formally.
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 6 August 2021 17: 39
              +1
              Quote: pytar
              This is in Cyprus, a country not a NATO member.

              ELDIK is precisely the troops of Greece itself, stationed in Cyprus. So NATO member Turkey was at war with NATO member Greece.
              1. pytar
                pytar 6 August 2021 19: 56
                0
                ELDIK is precisely the troops of Greece itself, stationed in Cyprus.

                I know. I personally know a participant in these events.
                So NATO member Turkey was at war with NATO member Greece.

                Clashes on the territory of Cyprus, a country NOT a NATO member, did not develop into a war between two NATO member states! Fact!
  19. Borisych
    Borisych 5 August 2021 11: 40
    +2
    The analysis of the balance of forces of the ship composition in the article is quite complete, the author coped with the task. The military-political aspect in the Black Sea region changes almost monthly and to say that NATO ships will suddenly start a battle there is a thankless task, except for Turkey we have no one to butt at sea, and Turkey now and in the future has plans to fight with the Russian Federation, especially for an amorphous and degrading military bloc, not even at all. The events with the Small-Shaven Destroyer and her Lower Holland counterpart served as a warning enough.
  20. Ilya Aksyonov
    Ilya Aksyonov 5 August 2021 11: 51
    -3
    On February 20, 2019, Putin, in particular, for the first time announced the readiness of the Russian Armed Forces, if necessary, to strike not only at the basing territories of "enemy" missiles, but also at the "decision-making centers."
    Now the war will go according to this scenario - nuclear charges explode off the coast of England and the United States and the war ends - there will be no one to fight with. All!
  21. xomaNN
    xomaNN 5 August 2021 16: 10
    +2
    And as soon as it becomes clear that the Black Sea Fleet is on the losing side ... Suddenly, ICBMs will fly towards the naval base of these opponents. The Strategic Missile Forces also love naval battles drinks
    1. xomaNN
      xomaNN 5 August 2021 21: 40
      +2
      "Minus", apparently, just from those countries, whose mosquito plague / forces want to butt with the Black Sea Fleet. Those. Are they afraid that "jokes are in the way" and expect the arrival of missiles?
  22. Andrey Mansurov
    Andrey Mansurov 5 August 2021 22: 33
    +2
    Well, surface forces are one thing. You can mine all the approaches to the Bosphorus. At great distances. And also to the Dardanelles.
  23. certero
    certero 6 August 2021 05: 16
    +4
    War with NATO conventional weapons - the path to defeat. Therefore, NATO members must be firmly convinced that Russia will use nuclear weapons immediately.
  24. Vasya Santa
    Vasya Santa 6 August 2021 06: 39
    +2
    The arms race is good)))
    Will we only survive it?
    Once they could not stand it.
  25. APASUS
    APASUS 6 August 2021 08: 25
    +1
    We survived, we are already comparing our fleet with the Turkish one and the advantage is clearly not in our direction
  26. Dmitry Leontiev
    Dmitry Leontiev 6 August 2021 12: 02
    +5
    All this reasoning is some kind of ridiculous spherical horse in a vacuum.
    Let's say Turkey or all NATO fired their missiles and destroyed the Russian Black Sea fleet. So what? Will Russia look at it calmly? Of course not. Because in this case, the enemy's next move will be to destroy Russia's positions somewhere else. And the inevitable result is the complete destruction of Russia.
    Therefore, in response to the destruction of its fleet, Russia, of course, will respond very harshly - with nuclear strikes at the sensitive points of the aggressor, inflicting even more serious damage on him - so that in the future he does not have such a suicidal desire. If the aggressor decides to respond to this blow with an escalation of aggression, a global nuclear exchange will take place, in which everyone will die. If someone strikes at the Russian Black Sea Fleet, this scenario is inevitable in any case; and NATO is well aware of this: in any case, they will not be able to gain anything with such an attack - they will only be able to commit mass suicide. And mass suicide is something diametrically opposite to what they want. Therefore, as long as Russia is able to ensure nuclear parity, there will be no real serious military attack on it; and such reasonings are only fantasies, divorced from objective reality.
  27. Stas1973
    Stas1973 6 August 2021 16: 36
    +2
    Usually the author writes great articles. But this one failed.
    What the author writes about is a kind of alternative, divorced from reality. Equal to what the Republic of Ingushetia was preparing for in the Baltic in 1914 and the USSR in 1941 in the Baltic and the World Cup (some landings, KUG strikes, submarine operations near Leningrvd and Sevastopol).
    Yes, no one will climb into the Black Sea with a ship composition until air defense systems (both stationary and mobile and ships), coastal RK, coastal AK and aviation are knocked out. The most important thing is who flies whom (aviation) - he will dominate the Black Sea.
  28. Xnumx vis
    Xnumx vis 6 August 2021 19: 16
    0
    For the first time I agree with the author. Yes, there is the Black Sea Fleet, but there are still few modern ships , we need three more frigates at least, we need new corvettes about eight, and three or four more under. boats as well as new landing ships. Much more is needed. But let's not lose heart, all this confrontation with the countries of the Black Sea basin ends at the mention of nuclear weapons, tactical and strategic ... Gone are the days of knightly tournaments.
  29. Santa Fe
    Santa Fe 7 August 2021 03: 55
    +1
    Not even ancient - the oldest, for the construction of these ships began in 1976.

    The construction of the missile cruiser "Moskva" began in 1976
    1. Volder
      Volder 9 August 2021 23: 33
      0
      Quote: Santa Fe
      The construction of the missile cruiser "Moskva" began in 1976
      However, its armament in terms of efficiency has not yet become obsolete (when compared with the armaments of ships of other countries belonging to the Black Sea area).
      1. Santa Fe
        Santa Fe 10 August 2021 00: 06
        0
        However, its weapons are not outdated in terms of efficiency.

        Time is ruthless to everything. Any weapon will become obsolete in half a century

        The weakness of the Bulgarian frigates is not from the time, but from the size. Patrol units of the 3rd rank with a minimum composition of weapons

        If we talk about the larger peers of Moscow - Turkish frigates of the G type (Giazantep - formerly American Perry). They are now of greater combat value than RKR Moscow

        At the time of their appearance, Perry outnumbered their peers (1135) by a generation. Before entering service under the Turkish flag, Perry / Giazantep underwent a major modernization in the 2000s. New BIUS, radar of the 21st century, + 32 new anti-aircraft missiles in the bow of the UVP, in addition to 40 with beam launchers

        What has changed during this time in Moscow, except for the S-300F of the first generation and the Volcanoes, the production of which was discontinued 20 years ago. The combat value of the Osa air defense system was shown by the last Karabakh conflict
        1. Volder
          Volder 13 August 2021 09: 24
          0
          Quote: Santa Fe
          Any weapon will become obsolete in half a century
          Tell this to the Americans about their Tomahawks and Harpoons (which are still in use today).
          Turkish G-class frigates are now of greater combat value than RKR Moscow
          In terms of the number of pieces, yes, in terms of the quality of weapons, no. The striking power of the Turkish frigate is much weaker than the cruiser.
          What has changed during this time in Moscow, except for the S-300F of the first generation and the Volcanoes, the production of which was discontinued 20 years ago.
          The air defense of the cruiser is in no way inferior to the air defense of the frigate, and the cruiser still fires with the Volcanoes in the exercises.
  30. ramzay21
    ramzay21 7 August 2021 10: 35
    +2
    With almost complete absence of submarines in the Black Sea Fleet, Turkish submarines are very dangerous for us.
    Volcanoes were formidable missiles 20 years ago; they do not pose a threat to modern air defense systems.
    The S-300Fort is not capable of shooting down a target flying at an altitude of less than 15 meters, and Axes fly at a height of 5 meters, so the entire load on repelling Axes strikes will fall on the close air defense systems of the cruiser Moscow. The rest of the ships have practically no air defense.
    1. Anton Volsky
      Anton Volsky 14 August 2021 23: 55
      0
      clear! thanks
  31. Grigory F
    Grigory F 7 August 2021 11: 19
    +2
    "a full member of NATO, which has the second largest army in the bloc in terms of quality and quantity," you flatter the Turks. The second army of the alliance is France. Turkey has a fairly strong army, but it is equipped with much older equipment than Great Britain, France and Germany.
  32. Rumyan Totev
    Rumyan Totev 7 August 2021 16: 32
    +4
    I am a reserve officer of the Bulgarian Navy. There are some mistakes in the text regarding the current Bulgarian Navy: The old Belgian frigates Exocet are in very limited numbers. Even I have information that they are practically nonexistent.
    And the missile boats of Project 205 "Osa" were commissioned for matalol a few years ago. And the boat of project 1241.1 "Lightning" practically barely keeps up.
    But since their four corvettes were indicated in the description of the Romanian Fleet, I must say that the Bulgarian Fleet also has two such ships of Project 1241.2. Yes, they do not carry strike weapons, they are purely anti-submarine ships.
  33. VladGTN
    VladGTN 7 August 2021 21: 06
    +1
    It is very pleasant to read articles by such a wonderful author as Roman Skomorokhov! A beautiful syllable, iron logic of constructing an article, no repetitions, encyclopedic knowledge in ALL areas of human civilization's life - this is not a complete list of Roman's merits as the author of excellent articles. I would also like to mention Mr. Skomorokhov's deep knowledge of history in all its aspects. Only thanks to such an author as the respected Roman, VO remains the most visited portal in the world. I believe that Mr. Skomorokhov is obliged to publish a complete collection of his works, with a circulation of at least 400000 copies for each volume. I also think that Roman, as a real modern man of the Renaissance, must finally present his painting and sculpture to the world, since he probably sculpts and paints.
    Additionally, I do not understand how such a great writer is still without government awards.
    1. Volder
      Volder 9 August 2021 23: 24
      0
      For this article, I would like to correct the author with the following thoughts:
      1) It is far from certain that NATO will dare to fight against the Russian Federation with its full complement of countries. Rather, it is quite the opposite: the West has so intimidated itself with the "Russian threat" that not everyone will dare to risk getting a response from Russia. Moreover, in the NATO charter there is no obligation for members to help each other with troops. How and how to help a belligerent country is decided independently by each country. That is, they can simply send humanitarian aid.
      2) It is pointless to talk about the ratio of fleets. If you want to get an objective picture from a military point of view, then you need to calculate the ratio of potentials, and you need to compare military capabilities as a whole, and not some separate types and / or branches of the military. Separately taken fleets of the Russian Federation do not need to outnumber the navies of other states, tk. the military doctrine of the Russian Federation is purely defensive. A large fleet is essential for attacks. Russia is not planning to attack anyone. Hence - the limited, but sufficient composition of the Navy. We live in the XNUMXst century, when a clash of fleets alone without the involvement of other types of troops is impossible. In addition, our fleet wins with the quality of weapons, not the quantity.
      Example: Our Eastern Military District has an overwhelming advantage over the Japanese army. What is the point of Japan attacking the Kuril Islands if its cities, as a retaliatory strike, begin to iron Russian long-range missiles? This is quite obvious, and the Japanese themselves are well aware that in the war against Russia they will not get a chance, no matter what.
      3) The Turkish fleet is forcedly divided into the Black Sea and the Mediterranean Sea, and Turkish submarines are not suitable for Russian ones. Turkey will not expose the Mediterranean direction - a certain number of ships should still remain there. For there are Russian bases in Tartus and Khmeimim in Syria, and the "friends" of the Turks can stab them in the back, tempted by their vulnerability.
  34. The comment was deleted.
  35. Shadow041
    Shadow041 10 August 2021 12: 06
    0
    One thing is clear - the Russian Black Sea Fleet needs to be urgently strengthened and all means are good for this. Instead of spending money on useless and almost unarmed patrol ships, we urgently need to complete the construction of 2 missile boats of the Molniya type, the latest model, which have long been idle on the stocks of the Vympel Shipyard. One such boat carries 16 Uranium anti-ship missiles, thus completing the construction of these two boats and transferring them to the Black Sea Fleet, you can enhance the Russian Black Sea Fleet's missile salvo by 32 Uranium anti-ship missiles at once, which is not so little ... such a tablet will be enough to destroy 2 - 3 frigates of a potential enemy ... or a semi-cruiser such as Arlie Burke
    1. Lazycrazy
      Lazycrazy 12 August 2021 14: 10
      0
      More ships, good and different.
  36. G.K
    G.K 11 August 2021 20: 18
    0
    We must immediately launch a preemptive nuclear strike against the Turkish fleet.
  37. Glagol1
    Glagol1 12 August 2021 11: 17
    -1
    NATO members can easily build up their forces in the Black Sea due to the arriving ships from the USA, England, France, etc. Then another 300 missiles will be added to Turkey ...
    Asymmetry is the only way to fight back. Coastal complexes and aviation up to TU-22M3. Well, the air defense. Covering bases with an umbrella. As Mikhalkov said in the famous film, "if they press against the river, then it's a cover."
  38. White man
    White man 12 August 2021 20: 45
    0
    The author, somehow, kept silent that from the Main Black Sea unsinkable ship of Russia "the Crimea Peninsula" within a radius of only 300 km, three quarters of the sea mirror with all above- and below-marinas is covered. Why else was Crimea ours.
  39. Anton Volsky
    Anton Volsky 14 August 2021 23: 53
    0
    And why are the Russian "Daggers" not taken into account?
  40. Ilya Aksyonov
    Ilya Aksyonov 13 September 2021 11: 47
    0
    This entire article is a shining example of thinking in past categories. None of this will happen and nothing of this is needed!
    The presence in Russia of high-tech weapons, electronic warfare and EMP systems, coupled with nuclear and hypersonic weapons, has greatly changed the psychology, tactics and strategy of war.
    Now the war will follow this scenario - nuclear charges explode off the coast of England and the United States and the war ends - there will be no one to fight with.
    That's it!