Military transport Il-76MD-90A can be certified for the civilian market

The new Russian military transport aircraft Il-76MD-90A can be certified for the civilian market, such a prospect is being considered. This was announced by the first deputy head of the UAC Sergei Yarkovoy.

Answering a question during an interview TASSYarkovoy explained that the Il-76MD-90A has a modern flight and navigation system and an onboard communications system, which allow the aircraft to be used in the civilian sector. Therefore, the option of certification of a military transport aircraft for the civilian sphere is not excluded.

According to a representative of the UAC, the carrying capacity of the Il-76MD-90A has been increased to 60 tons, and the new PS-90A-76 engines provide a flight range with increased efficiency. All this makes the aircraft quite attractive for civilian traffic.

For our part, we note that even if the issue of certification of the Il-76MD-90A is resolved, civil carriers will not receive this aircraft soon. The thing is that the Ministry of Defense is in great need of it, and the Russian industry cannot provide normal output in any way. Over the past year, the VTA Aerospace Forces of the Russian Federation received only three new aircraft, and in this they promise to transfer five.

According to Shoigu, in the future, the production of new and modernized Il-76MD-90A aircraft must be increased to 20 aircraft per year, so that by 2030 their number will exceed 250 units.

The heavy military transport IL-76MD-90A is a profound modernization of the IL-76MD aircraft. The new IL-76MD-90A, unlike the drill IL-76MD, is equipped with PS-90A-76 engines with a thrust of up to 14,5 tons instead of the "standard" D-30KP2 with a thrust of up to 12 tons. The aircraft received a new wing and a “glass” cockpit: the gauges were replaced by instruments with LCD displays. At IL-76MD-90A, the carrying capacity increased to 60 tons and the range of delivery of troops and cargo - up to 5000 km.

Comments

[prior]

Really again - tanks instead of oil ?!
Instead of increasing output, we will decide who is more important "dad" or "mom", defense industry or civil aviation (extinguishing fires).

[knn54]

Vlad., In addition to extinguishing fires, can be used to transport the sick and wounded.
The DEEP modernization made increases flight / navigation safety.
Therefore, it is offered for passenger transportation.

[askort154]

knn54...Therefore, it is offered for passenger transportation

Well, you are bent!

[prior]

The car is great. They just need many times more. Or maybe even an order of magnitude ...

[apricot]

"The car is excellent. We just need a lot more of them. Or maybe even an order of magnitude .."

AND IL 86

[SovAr238A]

Quote: knn54

Vlad., In addition to extinguishing fires, can be used to transport the sick and wounded.
The DEEP modernization made increases flight / navigation safety.
Therefore, it is offered for passenger transportation.

What passenger transportation?
What are you speaking about?

In the words of the "talking head" - civil transportation.

And for civil transport - this plane is not needed by anyone.
Existing companies in the world cope with the superheavy transportation market.
And it is unrealistic to move Volga-Dnepr and Antonov in this segment.

And to climb with the Il-76MD into commercial transportation of groupage cargo is a suicidal undertaking.
The Il-76MD-90 has 4 squadrons and a maximum 3500 km with a load of 60 tons ...
против
cargo Boeing-777F with two squadrons and maximum 9000 km with a load of 102 tons ...

The Il-76 is not adapted for the civilian commercial market - from the word in general ...

Once again I am convinced that the "talking heads" from the military-industrial complex are simply talking complete nonsense ...
Lavrov is not enough for them ...

[Reviews]

Quote: SovAr238A

it is unrealistic to move Volga-Dnepr and Antonov in this segment.

Are Volga-Dnepr and Ilyushin real?

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Avis

Quote: SovAr238A

it is unrealistic to move Volga-Dnepr and Antonov in this segment.

Are Volga-Dnepr and Ilyushin real?

4 sides inherited?

Now compare with 12 Ruslans
AND...
18 Boeing 747 aircraft purchased for operation ...

[Reviews]

Quote: SovAr238A

4 sides inherited?

From whom?

Now compare with

What for? Each has its own niche. Will you carry a mono-cargo of 40 tons on a 120-150-ton Ruslan? Nu-nu ... Do you know his consumption? Or 747F? Hmm ...

[knn54]

AL. Regarding civil transportation. With passenger traffic, indeed DLNP. Heat, age. And also "Tyapnitsa".
IL-76 is capable of taking off from unpaved runways.
This is that niche.

[alesi13]

It can be written! Are you aware of this phrase? There will be a need to be certified

[Piramidon]

Quote: knn54

can be used to transport sick and wounded

In "Sanaviation", or what? Where on the "civilian" plane will there be sick and wounded on such a plane? If there are any large-scale disasters, then the Ministry of Emergency Situations also has its own aviation, and BTA always allocates aircraft in such cases.

[Rubi0]

Is there a difference? what for the Air Force what for the Ministry of Emergency Situations are orders from the budget. Now, if for export, then yes, this is already butter with caviar instead of guns

[Xnumx vis]

There is a concept of dual-use products. So it is with this plane. Can always be used in a military version.

[Doccor18]

The new Russian military transport aircraft Il-76MD-90A may be certified for the civilian market

And that, not a bad idea, the car is reliable, and most importantly, its own and is produced exclusively on its own.
However, civil air transportation is a private business. IL has four engines, instead of two from imported competitors. More secure - yes, but how economical is it? Private traders will consider first of all ... Or it is necessary to dump, if the new Il will be significantly cheaper than Boeing and Airbus, then everything can be ...

[URAL72]

even if the issue of certification of the Il-76MD-90A is resolved, civil carriers will not receive this aircraft soon. The thing is that the Ministry of Defense badly needs it "

One does not interfere. MO can also deal with commercial transportation, so certification is needed. After the collapse of the alliance, hundreds of Il-76s passed into private hands. I don't know about certification, but they carry loads around the world to this day.

[Reviews]

There won't be any problems. The civilian Il-76-TD-90 flies perfectly in Volga-Dnepr. The same applies to the priority of the military over civilians: it did not stop getting half a dozen -TD-90.

[Orange bigg]

Quote: Avis

There won't be any problems. The civilian Il-76-TD-90 flies perfectly in Volga-Dnepr. The same applies to the priority of the military over civilians: it did not stop getting half a dozen -TD-90.

Is there any point in making a civilian version of the Il-76MD-90A, when there is already a civilian Il-96-400M with better characteristics?

... The new airliner differs from its predecessor, the Il-96-300, in size - its fuselage is lengthened by 8.59 meters. In addition, thanks to four powerful PS-90A1 engines, the Il-96-400M is capable of carrying up to 58 kg of payload, that is, almost a third more than the previous model, and flying at a cruising speed of 000 km / h (870 Mach).

This is what the economy class interior looks like:

And this is a business-class salon (of course, with access to Wi-Fi):

... Currently, there are three options for the layout of the liner: for 305, 350 and 402 seats. Previously, layouts were provided for 350, 370 and 400 seats (as indicated in the visualization below), in any case, the number of seats will depend on the wishes of customers, that is, airlines. In comparison with its foreign counterparts, the aircraft can compete actively due to its cost and spaciousness. The takeoff weight of the Il-96-400M reaches 270 tons, and the maximum flight range at maximum load is 6 kilometers.

https://www.popmech.ru/technologies/470022-il-496-kak-vyglyadit-otechestvennyy-layner-novogo-pokoleniya/

[Reviews]

Quote: OrangeBigg

Is there any point in making a civilian version of the Il-76MD-90A, when there is already a civilian Il-96-400M with better characteristics?

Are you, in general, aware that the Il-76 is a truck?
And the Il-96-400M does not exist.
And it makes no sense to compare a ramp aircraft (IL-76) with a cargo version of a passenger carrier (for example, 777F). These are planes of different classes: a large heavy mono-cargo will not fit into the 777, and the ramp will always lose when transporting general cargo ("boxes and pallets", to put it simply). They exist in parallel worlds.

[Orange bigg]

Are you, in general, aware that the Il-76 is a truck?

In the course and what does it change?

... And the Il-96-400M does not exist.

In the sense that it does not exist, then what is being built, what is being built that doesn't exist? The assembly of the Il-96-400M is nearing completion. Why make a civilian out of a cargo plane, when there is already a civilian plane with the best performance characteristics?

In September 2019, at the Voronezh aircraft plant (VASO), the slipway assembly of the first Il-96-400M was completed, the fuselage of the liner was moved to the final assembly workshop. And the dates of the first flight instead of 2020 were postponed to 2021.

At the end of 2019, Yuri Slyusar said that the first flight should take place in late 2020 - early 2021. “A slight shift in the first flight may be due to the workload of the Voronezh aircraft plant associated with the implementation of other orders. In parallel with the construction of the prototype Il-96-400M, the construction and repair of aircraft for special customers is underway, it is necessary to redistribute efforts, ”Slyusar said.

... “At the moment, the first prototype is at the stage of final assembly. By the second half of 2021, it is planned to complete the production of the aircraft, then preparation for the first flight will begin. For 2022–2023 certification tests and receipt of an addendum to the type certificate are planned, ”the UAC representative said.

IL-96-400M was supposed to become a "transitional" product for the period of creation of SHFDMS CR929. In addition, the Russian aircraft industry needs to develop existing competencies and load production facilities. The production rate at VASO is not high, but, according to Yuri Slyusar, the Il-96-400M was supposed to ensure the maintenance of the existing competence and increase the number of aircraft in operation.

https://aviation21-ru.turbopages.org/aviation21.ru/s/il-96-400m-budet-vypuskatsya-shtuchno-dlya-speczakazchika/

[Reviews]

Quote: OrangeBigg

Are you, in general, aware that the Il-76 is a truck?

In the course and what does it change?

As if, everything changes. Will you put mono-cargoes in tens of tons on economy-class seats, loading it there, sawing the fuselage? Or to put the Pax on the side otkidushki? How can you compare GAZon and Ikarus? The civilian version of a cargo plane does not mean turning it into a passenger plane. It's just the removal of a purely military avionics, well, and more "on trifles."

It doesn't exist. When was it finally assembled? When was the first flight? How many boards are there in the series and on the lines? There is a project, there is no plane. We also have Tu-334, like there is ... And in okrokhlyandiya - An-178 and An-132D ...

[Orange bigg]

As if, everything changes. Will you put mono-cargoes in tens of tons on economy-class seats, loading it there, sawing the fuselage? Or to put the Pax on the side otkidushki? How can you compare GAZon and Ikarus?

There is a transport option in the person of the Il-96-400T. Which, in your words, does not exist. For your information, the head IL-96-400T was transferred to the Polet airline (now it does not exist) in 2009. This board (RA-96101) was originally built in the Il-96T version and first took to the skies in 1997. To date, four aircraft in the Il-96-400 version have been built in Voronezh.

Photo of Il-96-400T, nonexistent from your words.

Il-96-400T RA-96103, in service since December 2014. in Zhukovsky. Photo: Alexander Shukhov / russianplanes.net

... Il-96-400T RA-96101 (serial number 97693201001, maiden flight in 1997 as Il-96T with PW-2337 engines, in 2004-07 converted to Il-96-400T with PS-90A1 engines) and RA-96103 (z / n 97693201003, made its first flight in 2009).

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/1185503.html

It is known that passenger airliners in Russia are not built as actively as combat aircraft, especially fighters. Here is the wide-body long-haul Il-96-400, they are produced in limited quantities at the Voronezh Aviation Enterprise (VASO), will go in the future not to Aeroflot, but for the needs of the Ministry of Defense. This will be the so-called “Doomsday” aircraft - a flying “nuclear briefcase” on a new air platform.

... The Il-96-400M surpasses the Il-80 or Il-82 in size and carrying capacity - it is the largest Russian passenger aircraft (these are part of the squadron that supplies the president). It is as close as possible to the American Boeing 747, on the basis of which the E-4B, the Doomsday aircraft of the United States, was created, has a large size and carrying capacity, so that more electronic equipment and people can be placed on it.

It is no coincidence that the unfairly forgotten Il-96 liner, which was removed from civil flights for commercial reasons, will be used for the new air command post. It is known that the Ministry of Defense previously ordered two Il-96 400T, which are supposed to be used as a refueling tanker. This machine is capable of becoming a base platform for an air command post.

https://svpressa.ru/war21/article/305489/

“Il-96-400M is, in fact, the project that should have been implemented long ago. We remember that deliveries of the IL-96-400T have begun, i.e. transport version of this aircraft, which successfully flies, carrying cargo over long distances. This is an aircraft with a huge payload, which can solve various tasks, ”concludes Gusarov.

https://soldat.pro/2020/02/18/novyi-variant-il-96-stanet-otvetom-rf-na-zaprosy-mirovogo-rynka-aviacii/

[Reviews]

Quote: OrangeBigg

Photo of Il-96-400T, nonexistent from your words.

What I actually said:
And the Il-96-400M does not exist.

Well, that is, you really don't know what a "truck" is and what a "passenger" is.
Well, "I have no more questions." Everybody's Free.

[Orange bigg]

Well, that is, you really do not know what a "truck" is and what a "passenger" is.
Well, "I have no more questions." Everybody's Free.

The IL-96-400M is a passenger transport version of the IL-96-400T.

[Reviews]

Quote: OrangeBigg

IL-96-400M passenger transport version of IL-96-400T.

That's it. Further - "sama-sama-sama".

[nov_tech.vrn]

In IL-76 TD we were loaded by 275 people, and this is still quite comfortable accommodation, I carry everything with me, with civilians and children.

[Reviews]

Quote: Doccor18

The new Russian military transport aircraft Il-76MD-90A may be certified for the civilian market

And that, not a bad idea, the car is reliable, and most importantly, its own and is produced exclusively on its own.
However, civil air transportation is a private business. IL has four engines, instead of two from imported competitors.

Name at least one. No, no, just a ramp with a lifting capacity of 40-60 tons.

[Doccor18]

Quote: Avis

Name at least one ... exactly the ramp

Yes, you are right. Ramp heavy all with 4 motors.
On the other hand, how many are needed? Its own niche, but narrow. And the same cargo versions of modern wide-body passenger cars lose in efficiency.

[Reviews]

That the niche is narrow is indisputable. No wonder there are so few ramps on the market. But they are, so there is a demand. Here, a couple of years ago, two Sadko were taken away from GAZ for testing in Southeast Asia. Two. Where to take them? They will not fit into 747F or 777F, and An-124 is redundant here. That's right - the Il-76 has arrived. :)

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Avis

That the niche is narrow is indisputable. No wonder there are so few ramps on the market. But they are, so there is a demand. Here, a couple of years ago, two Sadko were taken away from GAZ for testing in Southeast Asia. Two. Where to take them? They will not fit into 747F or 777F, and An-124 is redundant here. That's right - the Il-76 has arrived. :)

Usually a carriage, then a ship, again a carriage ...

[Reviews]

Quote: SovAr238A

Quote: Avis

That the niche is narrow is indisputable. No wonder there are so few ramps on the market. But they are, so there is a demand. Here, a couple of years ago, two Sadko were taken away from GAZ for testing in Southeast Asia. Two. Where to take them? They will not fit into 747F or 777F, and An-124 is redundant here. That's right - the Il-76 has arrived. :)

Usually a carriage, then a ship, again a carriage ...

Immediately write to the sender and the recipient that they don't understand a thing and only SovAr238A is the smartest! Immediately.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Avis

Immediately write to the sender and the recipient that they don't understand a thing and only SovAr238A is the smartest! Immediately.

I am the operator of several hundred off-road vehicles.
Including Sadko, Ural, Yamal, Trekola.
From Kaliningrad to Sakhalin, from Makhachkala to Yamburg.
Also, our company has sufficiently developed transport and logistics functions.
We work both by sea and by rail, by road and even by air.
And the planes were carried too.
And cars.
And I understand a little how it works.
And an example to you, why did they buy Turkish and other ships for the Syrian Express, and drive them until the resource is fully depleted, although according to your logic, they could have taken and transported everything by ILami by air?

[Reviews]

Quote: SovAr238A

And I understand a little how it works.
And an example to you, why did they buy Turkish and other ships for the Syrian Express, and drive them until the resource is fully depleted, although according to your logic, they could have taken and transported everything by ILami by air?

Malcheg ... When you grow up and give your cars to the undersized at 1:43, then you will teach the life of grown-up uncles. I gave you an example from real life, not from your virtuality. The example of the "Syrian Express" has nothing to do with the topic under discussion with one-off orders for the Il-76.
No, you don't "understand a little". You don't understand anything or anything at all, including logistics. And you can't tell an airplane from a moonshine. So, you better shut up and no more disgrace.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Avis

Quote: SovAr238A

And I understand a little how it works.
And an example to you, why did they buy Turkish and other ships for the Syrian Express, and drive them until the resource is fully depleted, although according to your logic, they could have taken and transported everything by ILami by air?

Malcheg ... When you grow up and give your cars to the undersized at 1:43, then you will teach the life of grown-up uncles. I gave you an example from real life, not from your virtuality. The example of the "Syrian Express" has nothing to do with the topic under discussion with one-off orders for the Il-76.
No, you don't "understand a little". You don't understand anything or anything at all, including logistics. And you can't tell an airplane from a moonshine. So, you better shut up and no more disgrace.

This little boy, to whom you indicate something, is 50 years old, and he manages 6 projects in the Urals, Khanty-Mansi Autonomous Okrug and Yamalo-Nenets Autonomous Okrug with more than 300 cars.
Almost all cars work around the clock in real off-road conditions ...
In the real life.

And yes, if you find it, if of course you want, but our company took one Drying out of Khmeimim to Novosibirsk.
Just by plane.
Ilom.
If you are such a specialist in air travel, it will not be a problem for you to compare everything I have written.

[Reviews]

Quote: SovAr238A

This boy, to whom you indicate something, is 50 years old

Yes, I'm talking about mental age, not calendar ... Hundreds of hours in auto and economic simulators, as well as the experience of refueling at a gas station daddy's "cars" do not give real experience, so do not blow your cheeks in vain, otherwise they will burst. You are given a real example of transportation (and it is not a single one), and in response you "usually do". You don't know how they usually do.
You don't even know that gas turbine technology does not consume in volumetric units (liters), but in mass units (kg and tons).
But here, too, you "started up the foam":

approximately IL-76MD-90A spends 29 liters of fuel per kilometer

Even the ancient TD spends 3500 kg / km for a range of 11,8 km, which for a density of 0,78 gives 15 liters / km when recalculated. Some kind of fool hung some sickly noodles on your ears, but you could not understand this.
Eh you, simmer overgrown ... :)

[ycuce234-san]

They can carry expensive but compact and lightweight equipment - satellites, medical installations, scientific installations and expensive industrial machines, money from mints, pharmaceuticals, hazardous chemicals and even premium cars and boats - to exhibitions and buyers. The fact that it is definitely impossible to drop and therefore efficiency is not so important.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Doccor18

The new Russian military transport aircraft Il-76MD-90A may be certified for the civilian market

And that, not a bad idea, the car is reliable, and most importantly, its own and is produced exclusively on its own.
However, civil air transportation is a private business. IL has four engines, instead of two from imported competitors. More secure - yes, but how economical is it? Private traders will consider first of all ... Or it is necessary to dump, if the new Il will be significantly cheaper than Boeing and Airbus, then everything can be ...

will not help.
approximately IL-76MD-90A consumes 29 liters of fuel per kilometer at full load.
The cost of 1 ton-kilometer is 33.83 with a full load of 60 tons and a maximum flight range of 3500 km with a full load.

Also approximately the Boeing 777 Freighter consumes 16 liters of fuel per kilometer at full load.
The cost of 1 ton-kilometer is 11.2 rubles with a full load of 100 tons and a maximum flight range of 9000 km with a full load.

Even dumping will never allow you to have not even simple benefits, even "zero" will not exist. Immediately full generation of losses ...

We are plowing into the commercial freight market like an elephant in a china shop.
Everything is completely different there.

IL-76 clean aircraft VTA.
And in the commercial market - it is a complete zero.

It's like using Hurricane-type tractors in commercial transport instead of conventional truck tractors.

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: SovAr238A

Boeing 777 Freighter spends 16 liters of fuel per kilometer

And how, for example, do you immerse something more than 3 and a half meters in it?
That's right, no way.
These are different planes for different occasions.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Jacket in stock

Quote: SovAr238A

Boeing 777 Freighter spends 16 liters of fuel per kilometer

And how, for example, do you immerse something more than 3 and a half meters in it?
That's right, no way.
These are different planes for different occasions.

What are we talking about ...
Commercial aviation has nothing to do with BTA ...
Therefore, you need to understand that the use of the BTA aircraft in the civilian sphere is near-zero ...
And to report on "civilian use" - to confess your own stupidity and inadequacy ...

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: SovAr238A

And to report on "civil application" - to confess to your own stupidity

Quite the opposite. It is foolish not to admit the obvious.
Silts are used in civilian use.
Yes, not for all occasions. But they have their own niche.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Jacket in stock

Quote: SovAr238A

And to report on "civil application" - to confess to your own stupidity

Quite the opposite. It is foolish not to admit the obvious.
Silts are used in civilian use.
Yes, not for all occasions. But they have their own niche.

Those Ilys, in the amount of 4 pieces, have already been upgraded to the level of MD-90, with PS-90 engines ..
Their market is very limited.
This niche is less than 1/1000 of a percent.
Volga-Dnepr has not bought a single BTA aircraft over the past many years ...
But he buys almost 35 Boeing GA in a cargo version.
In the world, thousands of cargo planes from GA fly simultaneously.
And no more than 2-3 pieces originated from BTA ..
Reporting about another victory in this situation is to show yourself a complete fool ...

[nov_tech.vrn]

"Dnepr" there is quite so ..., in liters consumption ..., well, did not expect it, a new trend?

[SovAr238A]

Quote: nov_tech.vrn

"Dnepr" there is quite so ..., in liters consumption ..., well, did not expect it, a new trend?

That is, ton-kilometers for you Terra incognito?

Don't you like liters? Multiply by 1300 - there will be tons of fuel ...

[Boris Ivanov]

and this is the right soap .. it is necessary to expand civil cargo transportation as well.

[askort154]

Yarkova explained that the Il-76MD-90A has a modern flight and navigation system and an onboard communications system, which allow the aircraft to be used in the civilian sector.

Blah blah Yarovoy. IL-76 and with the "old" flight and navigation equipment and BCS, have been excellently operated in the civilian sector for decades. The first in the USSR to operate it, in the early 70s, 2 TOAO (Second Tyumen United Aviation Squadron)

[Alexander Popov_3]

This aircraft, after fully meeting the needs of the RF Ministry of Defense, can be used in civilian life, for example, as a refrigerator for transporting COOLED Far Eastern fish products to the central regions of the country, where it is so lacking.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Alexander Popov_3

This aircraft, after fully meeting the needs of the RF Ministry of Defense, can be used in civilian life, for example, as a refrigerator for transporting COOLED Far Eastern fish products to the central regions of the country, where it is so lacking.

Will you buy chilled pollock at RUB 2000 per kilogram?

[Rash]

If you carry caviar, then the cost of transportation will not affect much.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Rash

If you carry caviar, then the cost of transportation will not affect much.

They don't eat so much caviar ...
Its price of 3000 rubles per kilogram already includes air travel, on commercial airlines ...
And it is already being transported by air.
I can now fly to Moscow by air 300 kilograms of Taimen, Muksun, Nelma, Chira, Shchekur ...
Frozen, of course ...
Look at its price in Moscow ...
For, in principle, there is no fresh one for further implementation.
But ...
I'm in Samara ...
Why do I need this Moscow ...

[Alexander Popov_3]

You will buy pollock if you like it so much. I would prefer fresh crabs or salmon.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Alexander Popov_3

You will buy pollock if you like it so much. I would prefer fresh crabs or salmon.

Frozen crabs, served in Europe, the Russian part of Europe, refami, cost from 2500 rubles per kg ...
By air travel, they will cost under 12000 rubles per kilogram.
Of course, here you also need to understand that the catch must be daily, with the departure and return of the fishermen to the base with the presence of a runway for the IL-76 and, most importantly, with a daily catch of 50-60 tons of crab every day, well, to fill the plane.
And the IL-76, with PS-90 engines, will need about 250 tons of fuel to deliver to Moscow ...
Apart from airport taxes, aircraft depreciation, and other expenses, well, the carrier's profit is a must ... at least 30-50% ...
So calculate the cost of your kilogram of crab in Moscow ...
If you want to see more or less relevant chilled products (do not confuse with good defrosting) - see prices in Globus Gourmet ...
The same goes for salmon ...

[Alexander Popov_3]

You talk about the profits of the so-called thieves - businessmen, and I'm talking about people, about the Russian people, who can only dream about these products in their dreams or in the Russian false media.
In your opinion, everything is fine and let these products go to Japan, Korea, China. It is ours, but we cannot afford it. The profit from the sale goes to the private owner's pocket, and not to the state budget.
This policy hostile to the people is being pursued by the current Russian government, and you support it.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Alexander Popov_3

You talk about the profits of the so-called thieves - businessmen, and I'm talking about people, about the Russian people, who can only dream about these products in their dreams or in the Russian false media.
In your opinion, everything is fine and let these products go to Japan, Korea, China. It is ours, but we cannot afford it. The profit from the sale goes to the private owner's pocket, and not to the state budget.
This policy hostile to the people is being pursued by the current Russian government, and you support it.

I think in terms of ordinary logic, ordinary mathematics.
And also from the point of view of sayings, "a storehouse of centuries-old folk wisdom, dressed in a short and capacious word form." Which says: "overseas, a heifer is a half, but a ruble ferry" ...
I have a kilometer-long Volga in Samara, but there is no fish ... And on Sakhalin, rivers are two spits wide, and there are more fish than in the Volga ...
As an analogy.

[Alexander Popov_3]

You know, logic and mathematics are not suitable in this case. Formally, you are right. But the state is a mechanism that serves its people and in order for people to live well it goes to some costs, which are more than compensated by other sources of income. The essence of democracy is good for the majority of the population, not for the few or a minority in society.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Alexander Popov_3

You know, logic and mathematics are not suitable in this case. Formally, you are right. But the state is a mechanism that serves its people and in order for people to live well it goes to some costs, which are more than compensated by other sources of income. The essence of democracy is good for the majority of the population, not for the few or a minority in society.

And I completely agree with you.
That the state is obliged to face the people.
But how to implement this without many problems, I do not know ...
I lived in the USSR for 20 years.
I saw a little life myself and remember the elders.

[Alexander Popov_3]

In order to realize this, the authorities must serve the people, not themselves. I have spoken about this from the very beginning of our discussion.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Alexander Popov_3

In order to realize this, the authorities must serve the people, not themselves. I have spoken about this from the very beginning of our discussion.

I'm going to voice my thought now.
I have been voicing for the last 30 years.
Who gets into power?
They do not come from space.
They are not reptilians
Our classmates, our neighbors, classmates.
With whom we studied together, played football.
Why do seemingly normal people become officials and, most importantly, why is the human mass proud of acquaintance or family ties with an official or corrupt officials?
An old friend, classmate - a traffic cop? You trumpet everyone about it and boast ...
Classmate - mayor or vice-mayor? Yes, everyone knows about it ...
They are all 100% corrupt.
And we, the people, boast of getting to know them.

And we don't just boast.
We have no problem recruiting any corrupt position.
There are no vacancies in the traffic police, there are no vacancies in the office of officials.
Where do all these people come from?
The answer is simple.
From our society.
They were also employed in the 70s, 80s, 90s, and now there are 100 applicants for a vacancy, and they do not take anyone from the street. All by "pull, acquaintance".
Appreciate ...
So maybe it is worth understanding the most important thing: "it is the society that has decayed, which supplies corrupt officials to all positions in abundance" ...
The fish is not rotten from the head.
And the whole society is rotten through and through ...
And all these revolutions, all sorts of roses, guides, springs - it's all such rubbish ...
Just a change of faces at the trough, but there can be no purging of power if society is already rotten ...
From the very bottom ...

[Alexander Popov_3]

Yes, you use certain indisputable facts, but without explaining the reasons for their manifestation.
Exploiting societies have existed for centuries, even if you take from the birth of Christ.
And socialism, which served the people - 74 years.
Power is simply given away for nothing, and the capitalists, with their material and other privileges, will never voluntarily part with them. History speaks about it, life itself.
For centuries, people have been deceived either by religion or by the postulate "this is how life has developed", when some are rich, others are poor, and the latter work for the former. And supposedly nothing can be fixed.
To retain power in the world, the capitalists did everything to destroy the main socialist state of the USSR, to eliminate the values ​​of socialism based on justice and legal equality of people in society, which prevailed in our former country.
Remember Churchill's speech at Fulton and the doctrine of Churchill, Truman, Dulles on the moral decay of Soviet society from within.
Unfortunately, their plan succeeded.
The current Russian government continues this policy of destroying Russia, not the USSR. People, especially those who did not live under the Soviet regime, are brainwashed by hook or by crook, truth turns into a lie, white turns black, and in order to understand this orgy, people need time, experience and knowledge, and the Grefs and others like them say that people do not need education , but you need skills to be cattlemen, locksmiths, carpenters ... which are easier to manage than literate people.
This slavish exploitative ideology is as old as the world and it is being implemented today in Russia.
In order to change life for the better, you need to change the government, and no one will voluntarily give it to the people. This, by the way, is Marxism. Hence the same, as you say, revolutions and other disagreements.
The development of mankind and the movement towards progress are an objective process and they cannot be stopped. But this takes time, and human life is so short.

[Jacket in stock]

Certification is possible and even necessary.
The good old Il76 flies with might and main and carries various cargoes. This means that there will be work for the new one.
Another thing is that in the production of 3 pieces a year, the turn will never reach the civilians, and until the Ministry of Defense is satisfied, the plane will have to be altered again, it will become obsolete.

[businessv]

Quote: SovAr238A

Once again I am convinced that the "talking heads" from the military-industrial complex are simply talking complete nonsense ... Lavrov is not enough for them ...

Damn, such a lofty dream was hacked to death! Thanks for the professional post, explained sensibly.

[boris]

What is the dispute about? IL-76 has long been successfully used for transportation
commercial cargo. There are many examples, I will give one for a start.
Once in a conversation, one businessman said the following. Them
a private shop chartered such a
plane for transportation of fresh cherries from Tashkent to Moscow.
This pleasure cost in terms of 1 kilogram of cherries
at 1 dollar. Maybe not very cheap, but quite acceptable.
By the way, back in the 60s of the last century, everyone knows
aircraft designer Antonov suggested using the AN-22 aircraft
for transportation of fruits from Central Asia to the north. Then this
the idea did not work simply because of the small number of these planes,
besides, they were all in the BTA. And when they made a lot of IL-76, then
business went quite well.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: borys

What is the dispute about? IL-76 has long been successfully used for transportation
commercial cargo. There are many examples, I will give one for a start.
Once in a conversation, one businessman said the following. Them
a private shop chartered such a
plane for transportation of fresh cherries from Tashkent to Moscow.
This pleasure cost in terms of 1 kilogram of cherries
at 1 dollar. Maybe not very cheap, but quite acceptable.
By the way, back in the 60s of the last century, everyone knows
aircraft designer Antonov suggested using the AN-22 aircraft
for transportation of fruits from Central Asia to the north. Then this
the idea did not work simply because of the small number of these planes,
besides, they were all in the BTA. And when they made a lot of IL-76, then
business went quite well.

It's all about the price.
I know a little about prices and beneficiaries ...
Even in Soviet times, all vegetables and fruits, for fabulous "kickbacks" were carried by "thoughtful" Azerbaijanis.
In the Volga Federal District, the center, western Siberia - trucks. Further, where there are no roads, and by planes and helicopters ..
There are places where I personally have been, where tomatoes and cucumbers are eaten only in winter ... Because their own does not grow in summer (short, and they do not grow on the sand), and the lack of roads in the swamps somehow does not allow, and in winter you can bring greenhouses along the winter road ..
The entire segment of FRU (fruits and vegetables) in Russia is 100% controlled and managed by the Azerbaijani diaspora.
So, we continue about our rams ..
The price of the first cherry (airplane) in Novy Urengoy is 2000 rubles per kg.
The price of the same cherries brought by a wheel ref is 400 rubles per kilogram.
Are there many idiots in our country?

[Andrey VOV]

In my city there are five families of monopolies in the sale of vegetables and fruits, plus grandmothers ... And all of them are not Azeri residents even once))) though the town has one name, less than 10 thousand

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Andrey VOV

In my city there are five families of monopolies in the sale of vegetables and fruits, plus grandmothers ... And all of them are not Azeri residents even once))) though the town has one name, less than 10 thousand

Does your village have a full-fledged vegetable base with hundreds of trucks every day from different regions?
No?
So your town is completed from a different main place ...
Where the Azerbaijanis rule ..