AK-12 as Russia's answer to the M4

206
Travis Pike, a former Marine Corps gunner who served in Afghanistan in 2009 and 2011 with the contingent, worked as an instructor in Romania, Spain, the UAE and (naturally) Afghanistan, serving as a shooting and concealed carrying instructor weapons, wrote a very interesting opinion about the AK-12.


In general, when a knowledgeable person begins to consider a weapon, it is at least informative. Therefore, Pike's opinion is of some interest to those for whom the confrontation between the M16 and the AK-47 is not story, but an exercise in logic.




In the modern world, entangled by information networks, lovers of weapons of all types can admire the latest and greatest firearms from anywhere in the world. Ironically, the world of Russian firearms seems to be one of the most mysterious. In addition to the cultural constraints created by the language barrier, Russians seem to be constantly adopting and creating new rifles. By the time the new rifle finally became the main weapon of the Russian armed forces, an even newer model had already appeared in production and began to seize its dominance over the old rifle. Trying to keep up with Russian rifle platforms naturally led me to the latest infantry rifle, the AK-12.

(By "old rifle" Pike means the AK-74, not the AK-47, as is usually the custom among Americans - approx.)

The AK-12 entered service in 2018 after a lengthy development, testing and production phase. This newest rifle has already been supplied by the thousands to many Russian military units.


The US and Russian military have always exchanged "blows" in terms of who could have fielded the most powerful modern infantry rifles. In 1947, the Soviet forces overtook us with the AK-47, but we quickly overtook them with various modifications of the modern M16, and they have been following us ever since.

The AK-12 represents the entry of the Russian military into the realm of modern weapons. Don't think of the AK-12 as an upgraded version of the AK-74 rifle. This is a very modern take on the classic AK series, while also taking advantage of the modularity of the M4 to modernize the old rifle design.

"Meet the new boss, the same as the old boss" - this is how the words of the American proverb can be used to describe most of the AK options. Inside the AK-12 is the same long-stroke gas system that made the AK such a scary toy on the battlefield long ago. It is an efficient closed air-cooled system that is not modern, but it is still quite efficient.

The AK-12 also retains the classic AK shape with paddle butt, right-hand charging handle and greater safety and reliability.

At its core, this is just another AK series rifle. This is great for Russian troops because the training between the two weapon platforms will be the same. No one in the Russian infantry will know how to handle an AK-12 until they surrender their AK-74 series rifle in exchange for a new one. And there will be no innovations here.
As you'd expect, the AK-12 uses the same Russian 5,45 x 39mm ammunition as its predecessor, the AK-74.

The rifles have many of the same internals, however the new AK-12 has some design changes that are worth noting.


First, the gas block is now integral with the body. This was a change we first observed on the 100 Series short-barreled AKs. The gas tube is also permanently attached to the barrel.

Kalashnikov changed its fire control by setting up a burst of 2 rounds, giving the soldier what is essentially a "double click" button. Russian soldiers will now have options for semi-automatic, full automatic, and two-shot bursts. The concept of a burst of two shots was tested in the prototype of the AN-94 series rifle.

The burst functions for the automatic two-shot series complicate the trigger group and often impair the trigger pull. Instead of a smooth trigger pull, you get a harder and harder pull. This makes the two-shot burst an interesting change, as accuracy appears to have been more of a consideration in the AK series than in previous Kalashnikov weapons. Longer or inconsistent trigger pulls can negatively affect accuracy, especially over long distances.

As part of this effort to improve accuracy, the AK-12 is the first AK series to be equipped with a free-floating barrel. The forend does not interact with the barrel, and this traditionally improves accuracy in rifles. Nothing the user does with the rifle's forend can affect the accuracy of the shot, making the rifle much more effective in combat.

At the end of the barrel is a muzzle system that allows the user to remove or add accessories. Soldiers can add silencers or muzzle brakes, depending on their mission profile.

The Kalashnikov assault rifle equipped the AK-12 with modern polymer fittings. The addition of a telescopic stock ensures that the rifle can fit users of different sizes, just like the modern M4 stock. Soldiers also have the ability to fold the stock for storage and transport. A small compartment in a standard stock allows Russian soldiers to store a weapon cleaning kit inside.

The old AK series is known to have rather small handles, not very comfortable. Modern polymer handles are slightly larger and more user-friendly, with good grooves. Above it is a slightly redesigned thumb-notch fuse, making it easier to activate, making the AK-12 better than previous AK models.

The AK-12 is equipped with a state-of-the-art polymer forend, which includes Picatinny rails for attaching accessories such as vertical grips, optics, lasers, flashlights and more. The new forend design fits snugly around the rifle and this allows users to more reliably use infrared devices for shooting at night.


A weakened, dangling forend will result in loss of aiming point. Since the forend no longer touches the barrel, it generally does not get as hot as possible. We've all seen videos in the past in which AKs melted or set fire to the forend during long automatic firing.

The new AK-12 magazine is made of resin and textured for good grip. It's super modern and reminiscent of Magpul's AK products. The bevel cut at the bottom of the magazine is another change designed to improve long-range accuracy. This allows the AK to rest on the ground as a monopod, while maintaining the stability of the weapon when firing in a prone position.

The dust cover (receiver cover - approx.) Of the AK-12 was turned into a platform for mounting the sight. The rail runs the full length of the dust cover and provides ample space for the optics. Previous incarnations of the AK made mounting optics on a rifle problematic using archaic side mounts.

The modern AK-12 dust cover eliminates the need for a side optical mount. Concern "Kalashnikov" mounts the top cover in a completely new way. It now fits snugly to the front and rear of the rifle, eliminating slack and making the mount more stable.

A very clever decision can be called the fact that the designers of the Kalashnikov concern pushed the sight as far back as possible on the receiver. The new scope is an overview sight compared to the standard AK open sights. The increased aiming radius and sighting sights increase the accuracy of fire at longer distances.


Optics. This is generally a sore point since the days of the Soviet army. The US military has long used a variety of optics on its infantry rifles, and Russian Special Operations Forces are known to also use a dizzying variety of side "red dots" and similar items on their AK rifles. The 1P87 holographic optics seem to be the most common and popular among their conventional military forces.

This reflex sight provides fast aiming at close range in combat. These are rigid optics (without the ability to change the focal length - approx.), And it has an interesting grid: a circle of 60 MOA, consisting of small dots. There is a dot in the middle and a hash mark under the dot.

The bottom reticle provides accurate aiming, taking into account mechanical displacement, such optics often work well at short distances, from 70 to 150 meters. Some Russian soldiers have been spotted with an AK-12 with a 1P87 telescopic sight and a ZT310 magnifier that provides three times magnification in addition to the telescopic sight.


The Russians have long been using grenade launchers, as have American troops. They use 40mm anti-personnel grenade launchers to accomplish their missions. The guys in my squad have used 40mm launchers pretty well and I believe the Russians are doing the same.

The time-tested GP-12 is installed on AK-34 rifles. These grenade launchers can fire frag and smoke grenades. In addition, there are CS gas grenades and non-lethal special forces grenades.

How does the AK-12 compare to the M4?

Is the AK-12 better than the M4? This question is difficult to answer without considering all the components and without holding two rifles in your hands at once. It would take an entire article to discuss this. I think it's clear that the M4 and M16 series rifles are paving the way for modern firearm design and emphasizing modularity as a concept. Obviously, the AK-12 drew some inspiration from its Western counterpart. The AK-12 certainly helps to professionalize the Russian military, and I expect it to have a fairly successful lifespan.

AK-12 as Russia's answer to the M4


And a couple of comments from readers:

The M4 has a better range than the AK-47 and AK-74, as far as I remember. How does the new AK-12 work? Not that we often have to hit people further than the AK-47 accurately fires, but it's convenient.


This story is interesting because the Russians use 5,45mm ammunition. I understand why, but it catches the eye of the Americans, who complain that the 5,56 mm does not penetrate the body armor and does not have enough knock-down power at a distance of more than 400 yards.
So either the Russians have some kind of "magic" 5,45-mm, or they do not care about breaking through a bulletproof vest or "knocking down" someone at a distance of more than 400 meters ... or they are not convinced by the usefulness of the 6,8-mm developments ...



Based on:
https://www.sandboxx.us/blog/russias-answer-to-the-m4-breaking-down-the-new-ak-12/
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  1. +6
    31 July 2021 05: 45
    Interesting article, thank you. hi
    AK-12 as Russia's answer to the M4

    It remains only to note that the M4 was put into service in the United States in 1994, and the AK-12 in 2018, they pulled something for a long time with the answer, so you can forget what you wanted to say.
    1. +6
      31 July 2021 06: 08
      The M4 was put into service in the United States in 1994, and the AK-12 in 2018, something took a long time with the answer

      Do you remember the 90s ... Was there before weapons?
      1. -3
        31 July 2021 06: 12
        And who prevented from doing this back in Soviet times, because we adopted the AK even when the Americans were running with the M14, the actual modernization of the M1 "Garand".
        1. +11
          31 July 2021 06: 19
          No one in the Russian infantry will know how to handle an AK-12 until they surrender their AK-74 series rifle in exchange for a new one. And there will be no innovations here.

          Honestly, it is not entirely clear to me what this article contains more - the original author's material, or Google - translation from the original (https://www.sandboxx.us/blog/russias-answer-to-the-m4-breaking -down-the-new-ak-12 /)
          1. +10
            31 July 2021 06: 47
            It is difficult to read google translate. Type "loading handle".
          2. 0
            1 August 2021 05: 58
            Better yet, change it to AEK-978, AEK-973. and AEK-971, (although these machines are better, but already somewhat outdated), otherwise they lick the old scheme and development stopped for 15 years.
        2. +7
          31 July 2021 07: 18
          In Soviet times, "AK-12" was not needed by anyone, then they demanded an assault rifle with a firing efficiency of 1,5-2 better than AK74
          1. +36
            31 July 2021 09: 01
            By and large, the AK-12 is still not needed by anyone, except for the KK and his "advisors". The opinion of the former American machine gunner, who did not have and does not have a deal with the AK-12, is purely subjective, has a lot of errors and is not supported by any specifics.
            As an example:
            Kalashnikov changed its fire control by setting up a burst of 2 rounds, giving the soldier what is essentially a "double click" button. Russian soldiers will now have options for semi-automatic, full automatic, and two-shot bursts. The concept of a burst of two shots was tested in the prototype of the AN-94 series rifle.
            the "twos" of the AK-12 and the AN-94 are compared, which is absolutely ridiculous and speaks of Mr. Pike's misunderstanding of the conceptual difference between these "twos". And if in the Academy of Sciences this shooting mode was a necessity, then in the 12th it was pure whim of the "advisers", because to cut off the "two" in the "AB" mode at a rate of fire of 600 rds / min is not a big deal for an average person ...
            Next:
            The new AK-12 magazine is made of resin and textured for good grip. It's super modern and reminiscent of Magpul's AK products.
            the strength of the new "supermodern" stores is such that they fall into the category of "irreparable" not even in extreme, but in the most ordinary operating conditions.
            In general, there are a lot of questions about the AK-12's "chips", and the main question is "why"?
        3. +3
          31 July 2021 14: 50
          Quote: Sea Cat
          And who prevented from doing this back in Soviet times, because we adopted the AK even when the Americans were running with the M14, the actual modernization of the M1 "Garand".

          Common sense did not allow us to do this - even then we did not plan massive battles with the widespread use of infantry small arms, the stake was made on strategic weapons. That is why they did not bother with the new AK, considering that the old version will serve for more than a decade. As you can see, they were not mistaken - the AK-74 is still the most used machine gun in the world.
          1. +10
            31 July 2021 16: 15
            hi only most likely not ak 74, but an AKM / AKMS under 7.62x39.
      2. -4
        31 July 2021 06: 41
        In any incomprehensible situation, talk about the 90s
        1. +9
          31 July 2021 07: 07
          Quote: Mikhail Ishin
          In any incomprehensible situation, talk about the 90s

          Which side to approach Yes For some, the Yeltsin-Gaidar-Chubais period in the life of the state is the "Saints of the 90s" ...
          1. +1
            31 July 2021 07: 32
            So many of these saints in the cemetery
            1. +6
              31 July 2021 08: 06
              Quote: Fedor M
              So many of these saints in the cemetery

              Unfortunately, in addition to the "brothers" who perished in the bandit wars of the 90s, millions of ordinary citizens died, whom the state then simply left to their own devices, depriving them of jobs (the possibility of earning a livelihood), normal medical support and much more.

              Who does not remember how rapidly the "microdistricts" of cemeteries grew then?
              1. -13
                31 July 2021 08: 22
                That's exactly what THEN quit. Again, those who wanted to "live" found a way of being. And did not drink shamelessly
                1. -2
                  31 July 2021 08: 29
                  Quote: Fedor M
                  That's exactly what THEN quit. Again, those who wanted to "live" found a way of being. And did not drink shamelessly

                  Not so simple...

                  I remember a time when completely normal people were dying out in large numbers from burned vodka, the monopoly on the production of which the state completely surrendered to a criminal element.

                  And often the vodka was so "vigorous" that it was enough to sip a generally symbolic dose of 50-150 grams to go to the forefathers ...
                  1. +2
                    31 July 2021 08: 55
                    To drink or not to drink is a choice
                    1. +7
                      31 July 2021 09: 01
                      Quote: Fedor M
                      To drink or not to drink is a choice

                      Under this " free alternative choice "a lot can be let down. Yes

                      Maybe then, in order not to bother with the role of the state over control of the production and turnover of alcohol (and drugs), simply put people (citizens) before the choice - "LIVE or NOT LIVE"?
                      1. -6
                        31 July 2021 12: 13
                        About "living" is also a choice
                      2. -2
                        31 July 2021 12: 36
                        Quote: Fedor M
                        About "living" is also a choice

                        Well no really stop !
                        Let the POWER then make a choice - To be or not to be Yes
                2. +1
                  2 August 2021 04: 58
                  Exactly. I was then a 14-year-old boy, a single mother, a younger brother ... We survived, learned. But I will never forget those hungry years and all sorts of clever people who gave everyone a universal recipe to "spin" if you want to live. And to be honest, I enjoy looking at how now these twisted - hucksters and swindlers in their total mass howl from the sidelines of life "about the power that robbed them", not realizing with my meager mind that their skills "business on suckers" obtained in 90, are currently not in demand, and they themselves are not needed by anyone. In general, shit washed up on the shore.
              2. -3
                31 July 2021 13: 46
                killed millions of ordinary citizens

                And this statement is, of course, not true.
                No millions of deaths from violent causes, hunger or epidemics in the indicated historical period of time were observed either in Russia or in Ukraine.
                1. -3
                  2 August 2021 05: 03
                  Pitsa-Truth said, bulging her naval eye.
                2. -3
                  2 August 2021 19: 57
                  I’m not, I’m not, it goes without saying, but you undertake to judge.
                3. 0
                  18 January 2022 21: 48
                  and on the other hand, there were 4 childhood friends of us, and I was left alone ....
              3. +11
                31 July 2021 20: 55
                You know, now it is much more difficult to find a job than in the 90s, and utility bills have grown significantly, several times, in relation to the size of the salary.
                1. +4
                  1 August 2021 21: 10
                  Yes, then there was a dime a dozen of free work - the payment of wages once every six months with the products of the plant. And what did people dislike?
                2. -1
                  2 August 2021 05: 06
                  Certainly more difficult. Required skills and education. Again, Internet commerce has developed, from the bulldozer a triple - fivefold price tag in your "boutique" cannot be set, and you have to pay taxes - how can you make money here?
          2. -8
            31 July 2021 07: 53
            For you? After all, Yeltsin gave you Putin.
            Is not it?
            1. +4
              31 July 2021 08: 05
              well, it's as if dad beat you mercilessly all his life, and apologized to his death
              1. -6
                31 July 2021 08: 13
                Quote: datura23
                well, it's as if dad beat you mercilessly all his life, and apologized to his death


                Beat a little angry
            2. +7
              31 July 2021 08: 11
              Quote: Mikhail Ishin
              For you? After all, Yeltsin gave you Putin.
              Is not it?


              Not this way No.

              We, with Putin, whom Yeltsin gave us, are bad - poorly, but we get along well, but you, whom EBN gave independence, have been running around with it like a written sack for thirty years, not knowing where to lean it.
              1. +13
                31 July 2021 08: 20
                Yes, they have no independence. Yeltsin sold them to others, as he practically sold the Russian Federation
              2. -5
                31 July 2021 08: 40
                Yeltsin didn’t give us anything here in the Urals, although there were attempts to invent the Ural Republic ..
                And Putin left a completely working CIS ..
                But Putin just gave away all the neighbors - who to Turkey who to China who to the West
                1. -6
                  31 July 2021 08: 44
                  Quote: Mikhail Ishin
                  Yeltsin didn’t give us anything here in the Urals, although there were attempts to invent the Ural Republic ..

                  Are you just another "Mehan", about whom one of the moderators wrote that he was from the Urals, from Orenburg?
            3. +9
              31 July 2021 08: 19
              Who is Yeltsin, so that he could give something ?! Or, you also need to explain that every country has its own elite, which rules. Or do you really believe that all presidential candidates run on their own money ??? This is someone else's money and then they need to be worked out, especially for the deputies who pass the necessary laws for their patrons.
    2. +2
      31 July 2021 06: 15
      Quote: Sea Cat
      They pulled something for a long time with the answer, so you can forget what you wanted to say.

      Maybe at first (under the SMS and EBN) they hoped for a "long friendship", then with ... - "for a business partnership" ... Having lost hope, they remembered that "no matter how much wolf you feed, the American elephant (donkey) however, some priorities. "
      The most truthful thing is that both in the AK-47 and in the AKM there were no "different bells and whistles" for accurate shooting at a direct range or the same night shooting (except for the phosphoric "adapt" and the NSPU).
      Practice has proven its relevance. Thank you anyway.
      hi
      1. +1
        31 July 2021 06: 27
        Maybe at first (with the HMS and EBN) they hoped for a "long friendship"


        Friendship is friendship, but "you need to keep the powder dry." That’s a shame, we could have done this option long ago and we wouldn’t have to play catch-up now.
        1. +3
          31 July 2021 07: 21
          What other catch-up? What are you talking about? The AK74 is superior to the M4 in firing efficiency, and the optics can be perfectly hung on the side crowns. Instead of any tenders, it was necessary to order the AN-94 in normal quantities, and then, based on the results of military operation, roll out the requirements for modernization. And now it would be AN-94M.
          1. 0
            31 July 2021 08: 10
            What other catch-up? What are you talking about? The AK74 surpasses the M4 in firing efficiency, and the optics can be perfectly hung on the side crowns.

            I agree.

            Order AN-94 in normal quantities, and then roll out modernization requirements based on the results of military operation. And now it would be AN-94M.


            But here it is not. Well, Abakan with its automatic equipment is not suitable for an army machine gun. For the Special Forces even more or less, but not as a regular army machine gun.
            1. +3
              31 July 2021 18: 04
              The AN-94 was not made for special forces, but to replace the AK74. There is nothing in it that the soldier could not learn at the KMB. In the USSR Ministry of Defense, when they recommended the ASM for adoption, they had no doubt that the soldiers would master the new machine gun.
              1. +2
                1 August 2021 08: 38
                The AN-94 was not made for special forces, but to replace the AK74.


                This does not change the essence - such sophisticated automation is never suitable for an infantry machine gun.

                There is nothing in it that the soldier could not learn at the KMB. In the USSR Ministry of Defense, when they recommended the ASM for adoption, they had no doubt that the soldiers would master the new machine gun.


                Come on :)


                This is THIS you call a reliable machine? :) Plus, there is also a store at an angle - I think, after being used by the troops, this would cause a lot of complaints.
                1. +1
                  2 August 2021 09: 25
                  This does not change the essence - such sophisticated automation is never suitable for an infantry machine gun.

                  You call this THIS a reliable machine?

                  Um .. the Nikonov ASM / AN94 assault rifle was actually assessed as fully complying with the requirements of the Main Missile and Artillery Directorate of the USSR Ministry of Defense, including in terms of operational reliability.
            2. 0
              31 July 2021 18: 32
              Quote: -Dmitry-
              AN-94M

              SPN he is also "not fish, not meat", for some cases it is not suitable for reliability, for others for noiselessness, for others in size, and so on ...
              1. -1
                1 August 2021 08: 40
                Well I said that more or less can fit for SPN :)
                1. 0
                  1 August 2021 17: 22
                  no need to pull by the ears, otherwise you will run into "Ferrari and Bentley more or less can fit for SPN " laughing

                  In general, try for yourself in text form to formulate a predicate thesis on the topic "where, how and how an abakan can help SPN", only take SPN not "naked" and not "spherical in vacuum", but actually having AK, vintorez, thunderstorm, ADS , ASh, APS and their further variations on the same theme. Personally, I made such a DZ, and then I myself smashed it to smithereens. Therefore, in fact, I do not see a single gram of the need for Abakan, it is like a kangaroo in a car in the Russian Federation, it seems to be a useful creation, but in the absence of a kangaroo it is meaningless.
                  1. -2
                    8 August 2021 03: 42
                    no need to pull by the ears, otherwise you will run into "Ferrari and Bentley, more or less may be suitable for SPN


                    In my opinion, it is you who are pulling everything by the ears.

                    In general, try for yourself in text form to formulate a predicate thesis on the topic "where, how and how an abakan can help SPN", only take SPN not "naked" and not "spherical in vacuum", but actually having AK, vintorez, thunderstorm, ADS , ASh, APS and their further variations on the same theme


                    Shta ?! You have horses here, people - everything is mixed. Let's start with the fact that in the 90s, which was actually discussed, the AU and VSS were already in service with the Special Forces, but as a special weapon that CANNOT replace the AK in the Special Forces. AK to replace AK? Do you even understand what it was about? :))) It was about the 90s and the replacement of the AK.
                    Secondly, you quite seriously assert that ADS, ASh, APS (!) Can change AK in the Special Forces ?! You apparently are clearly not in the subject, otherwise to offer such an assortment - 2 special water automatons, one narrowly specialized assault ... Actually, this is probably why you say that the AN-94 is not suitable for special forces. Once again, forget about ADS and ASh - we are talking about the 90s.
    3. +1
      31 July 2021 08: 09
      It remains only to note that the M4 was put into service in the United States in 1994, and the AK-12 in 2018, they pulled something for a long time with the answer, so you can forget what you wanted to say.


      Well, in the 90s the answer was - AK-74M. If we compare the AK-74M and M4 of those years, then they are approximately equal, and in terms of reliability, of course, the AK is better.
      1. +1
        31 July 2021 12: 11
        They also adopted the AEK-971 for service.
    4. Maz
      +2
      1 August 2021 15: 39
      compared to my last year and a half of service AK-74M, and my AKM-7,62 the first six months of service, I would choose the last one. The accuracy just went off scale. Although the Ak-74-paddle did not allow smearing even when the aiming front sight was shot down. And if the AK-12 has against these predecessors:
      1. Longer line of sight.
      2. The trunk, as it were hung out.
      3. Butt with fitting under the soldier.
      4. Cutoff for two rounds, as in previous machines.
      5. Diopter
      6. Barrel cooling on the box breech bolt.
      7. Magazine with a convenient cut and windows for checking the cartridges in it.
      8. Convenient safety catch with additional hook.
      9. Increased barrel resource
      10. Picatinny bar.
      11.Reset store
      12. Collimator sight and grenade launcher.
      THEN if I from those two machines hit everything that moved and stood without problems, then with this I would level everything that could cast a shadow with the ground easily and without tension and with pleasure. So there are no questions.
      The machine is very good, although a slide delay and a double-sided fuse would not have been in the way. And a shutter with the ability to output on both sides would be nice. There is a lot to strive for. For the price and time of training, this is generally the dream of an African and South American soldier.
      1. +1
        1 August 2021 15: 55
        ... generally the dream of an African and South American soldier.


        Exactly. laughing
    5. 0
      2 August 2021 12: 30
      M4 is just the response of the Americans to the AK-91M that appeared in 74, the AK-2011M74 appeared in 3, on which the features of the AK12 have already begun to appear
      1. 0
        2 August 2021 18: 54


        Do you see the difference? And picatinny rails appeared only on the AK-74M3.
        1. 0
          2 August 2021 20: 44
          Do you see the difference? And the picatinny bars appeared only on the AK-74M3.

          Well I do not know . I see only one drawback in the AK-74, because of the removable receiver cover (as it is called), it is impossible to install an optical sight (and other sights) on it.
          The eye is too far from the telescopic sight, which can only be placed in place of the aiming bar.
          Come up with a new receiver cover so you can put sights on it and that's it. Why re-invent the bike there?
          1. 0
            2 August 2021 21: 01
            They think of everything, that's before that.

            1. +1
              2 August 2021 21: 42
              They think of everything, that's before that.

              I doubt the integrity of the mount. There, mm of backlash will greatly affect the accuracy of the sight.
              1. 0
                2 August 2021 21: 47
                Totally agree with you.
  2. +2
    31 July 2021 06: 05
    I would like to see the comments of those who have been in the battles with the AK-12.
    In Syria and other hot spots.
    1. +8
      31 July 2021 06: 19
      I would also love to read the reviews of professionals, the last time I used an army weapon in 1996, in Tajikistan, we were given new AK 74m.
      1. +4
        31 July 2021 10: 02
        Quote: Pessimist22
        I would also love to read the reviews of professionals, the last time I used an army weapon in 1996, in Tajikistan, we were given new AK 74m.

        Despite the 90s, new AK-74Ms entered the army. During his service in the Caucasus from 1999 to 2001. was armed with an AK-74M with a GP-25. I want to say that you can very quickly learn to shoot in short bursts of 2-3 bullets. The forend did not melt. It is interesting how to clean it in case of incomplete disassembly in the field, the gas outlet pipe of the AK-12 is not removable, the gas outlet piston of the AK-74M on the bottom of the bottom is heavily soaked in the gas chamber and the pipe.
        Regarding the aiming range, if I have not forgotten, for the AK-74M it is 1000 m. The question is different, when the accuracy of hitting the target is needed, the unit has a unit - a sniper, with the appropriate type of weapon ...
        1. +5
          31 July 2021 11: 07
          Father taught with a ramrod in short bursts and so that loudly when pressing "Twenty two!"))) It was also AKM
          1. 0
            31 July 2021 21: 04
            I don’t understand why. I do not understand at point-blank range, and I demand clear explanations. Immediately, upon detecting an enemy, you can and should release the first store without hesitation. Then you can shoot singles to kill, and at moving targets you need to shoot in long bursts. What are short ones for? At the same time, it is impossible to adjust the fire on the tracers, the accuracy of the second or third bullet is questionable.
            1. +2
              31 July 2021 22: 29
              Did you take part in real hostilities?
              1. +1
                31 July 2021 22: 41
                In the course of practice, in order to differ from the "spirits" in the manner of fire. Is there a more rational explanation?
                And I'm waiting for an answer, not an increased interest in my biography.
                1. 0
                  1 August 2021 13: 08
                  Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
                  In the course of practice, in order to differ from the "spirits" in the manner of fire. Is there a more rational explanation?
                  And I'm waiting for an answer, not an increased interest in my biography.

                  As an example, I served in the military intelligence unit. The senior of the group, as a target designation to the RPK-74 machine gunner, the PKM crew and the grenade launchers, in bursts (one tracer after two) indicated the direction to suppress the identified firing points (machine gun, grenade launcher).
                  Short bursts save ammunition, give accuracy / accuracy and do not overheat the barrel.
                  Detection of the enemy can be sudden (ambush / combat contact) or during observation (reconnaissance). In the first case, get ready for battle, use cover, disperse, identify firing points to begin with, wait for an order (voice, r / communication, gestures) or act on readiness according to instructions. Do not shoot into the white light ...
                  1. -1
                    2 August 2021 22: 49
                    Such reasoning is complete nonsense. The point is the inconvenience of the fuse switch. At medium and long distances and when there is an opportunity for aiming, it is better to single, on a moving target, long queues are better. And in close combat, it is better to keep the switch on automatic mode, here the skill of shooting short is important, so as not to sink the ammunition, if you switch to single ones ahead of time, then it is not easy to touch the return of a tight switch to the automatic fire position blindly. And as an identifier friend or foe also has the right to life, but in such a capacity as an identifier, it does not work very well.
                    And to pass off as a necessary skill, circus tricks with shooting at the expense, always and everywhere, how strange it sounds.
                    1. 0
                      3 August 2021 00: 42
                      You probably know better .... Ordinary rank and file servicemen - the participants in the hostilities of the "academies" did not finish, the skill and muscle memory to conduct aimed fire in short bursts is conducted at the level of the developed reflex, I don’t think about "bookkeeping", others are busy with their heads. Ready for battle means putting the fire translator into automatic mode. To whom, even the transfer of the fire regime seems tight, but someone is soaring with the removal of the gas outlet pipe ...
                      what Your thought about the difficulty blindly, to grope the fire translator and the complex translation of the fire mode by touch without stroking it, seems to me stupid. When you remove the magazine, you are looking for a latch to hold it to press, then consider where to insert the loaded one?
                2. 0
                  1 August 2021 17: 43
                  short queues are needed not so much to "save BC" (as for me this is complete nonsense) but for "more reasonable (effective) work of fighters in a combat situation" here it is a matter of the peculiarities of the work of the brain and mind. First, to get started, familiarize yourself with the concept of synchronicity and asynchrony from computer science, and especially the key difference between synchronous and / or asynchronous "computers" (VM), for example, the human brain is a synchronous-asynchronous VM with scaling of the level of synchronicity-asynchrony. Secondly, familiarize yourself with the "mistakes and jambs of the brain" in particular about where and how he is "lazy". Third, read the info about the influence of external factors on the first two, for example, how shock (noise) vibrations and light-flashes affect thinking and perception. This topic is not so much complicated as multifaceted, if, in short, it is useful for a fighter to switch to a more synchronous or more asynchronous mode of operation, but work in short bursts and the formation of various triggers (I'm talking about "twenty-two") is simply the most accessible, simple , quickly and therefore effectively.
    2. +2
      31 July 2021 06: 33
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      I would like to see the comments of those who have been in the battles with the AK-12.

      Here, "one" did not want you to satisfy your curiosity. wink
      ==========
      Quote: Pessimist22
      I would also love to read the reviews of professionals

      So here we have unanimity, it remains only to find out:
      And who doesn't want sugar or cream?

      lol
    3. +1
      31 July 2021 07: 17
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      I would like to see the comments of those who have been in the battles with the AK-12.
      In Syria and other hot spots.

      I join! We are waiting! good hi laughing
    4. +1
      3 August 2021 10: 11
      Half a year ago, Alexander Sladkov published photographs of one of the military units where the AK-12 is operated with discovered defects - a crack in the front of the forearm, chrome chrome on the bolt carrier, the absence of a pencil case, etc.




  3. +6
    31 July 2021 06: 12
    The history of the rivalry between the two schools of weapon geniuses, Mikhail Kalashnikov and Eugene Stoner, has become a legend. Thousands of essays, videos, comparative tests did not lead to an unambiguous answer.
    1. +5
      31 July 2021 06: 33
      Well, if you take the AKM and M16, then I am for the AKM, almost like a light machine gun, of course the accuracy with the automatic one is not very good, but the reliability is 100%, I liked the AK74m, more accurate, the recoil momentum is small, I am for 5,45.
      1. +8
        31 July 2021 07: 13
        And I am for AKM, there is an indisputable advantage in reliability and simplicity of design, which was shown by the fighting in the jungles of Vietnam.
    2. +5
      31 July 2021 06: 36
      Quote: Borz
      The history of the rivalry between the two schools of weapon geniuses, Mikhail Kalashnikov and Eugene Stoner, has become a legend.

      And there is one detail in this rivalry, a historical fact:
      The AK-47 has become the most massive and effective military weapon in the world: it is so simple and inexpensive to manufacture that in some countries it costs less than a live chicken.
      1. +15
        31 July 2021 07: 14
        Quote: ROSS 42
        The AK-47 has become the most massive and effective military weapon in the world: it is so simple and inexpensive to manufacture that in some countries it costs less than a live chicken.

        1. +4
          31 July 2021 07: 22
          The top photo is just awesome! "NO PU" - "PU-PU-PU" - "PU" laughing wassat
          1. 0
            31 July 2021 08: 20
            Quote: Sea Cat
            The top photo is just awesome! "NO PU" - "PU-PU-PU" - "PU" laughing wassat

            These photos are not a bursting collage, illustrating the fact that AK, in its simplicity, is a weapon even for the most uneducated, "wild" fighters.

            Unlike many other systems.
        2. +7
          31 July 2021 16: 46
          it is so simple and inexpensive to manufacture

          About "incredible simplicity in production" - the statement does not correspond to reality. To put it mildly. There are also complex parts in fair quantities, and the requirements for materials (which is why the use of specific steel grades is necessary).
          in some countries costs less than live chicken

          The fact that "costs less than chicken" is not produced in these very "some countries". It was produced in the same PRC during the time of Mao Zedong. And given away for free or almost for free for ideological reasons. Fortunately, after Deng Xiaoping came to power, this practice was immediately discontinued, and with it the production of Type-56 automatic rifles and Type-67 hand grenade launchers, which caused a lot of troubles to mankind ...
          1. +1
            31 July 2021 21: 12
            I agree, as if no one disassembled the machine gun and saw with their own eyes how complex the shape of the bolt carrier with a gas piston and the bolt itself are.
      2. 0
        31 July 2021 07: 17
        And I agree with this statement. It is so simple that a young fighter masters AK in a couple of classes, while American recruits have been "steaming" with M-16 for weeks. Somewhere exact numbers came across, I will not mislead you.
        1. +3
          31 July 2021 16: 51
          It is so simple that a young fighter learns AK in a couple of lessons.

          What do you mean by "mastering weapons"? This time.
          Two - what is the level of the pre-army training of the soldier in terms of the possession of weapons and general technical knowledge / competence of his own.
          1. +2
            31 July 2021 18: 34
            At least assembly / disassembly (M 16 has many small parts). I did not understand it myself, but the scheme and order of disassembly is on the network. In this matter, I rely on the opinion of experts.
            Regarding the duration of the introductory course, I repeat, I came across information, I cannot say for sure, but the AK is mastered faster due to the ingeniously simple design.
            1. 0
              1 August 2021 02: 12
              M 16 has many small details

              This is a lot ... one and a half. Actually a really small firing pin retainer and a relatively small cam pin.
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irykjLjuKo8
              about the "incredibly complicated" procedure of incomplete assembly and disassembly of the M4 machine gun.
              PS: By the way, for cleaning in the field, you don't need to separate the aper from the lower.
        2. +4
          31 July 2021 16: 57
          not entirely true. for weeks partners soar not because of the complexity of the design, but because of the training program. Ideally, after completing the course of mastering the mate part, the recruit should be able to assemble a mku with gouged eyes, broken hands from a box with spare parts laughing ... in general, a week is allocated for the development of the mate part of the m16a2 service rifle, during this time the device, the principle of operation, various types of disassembly, intervals and maintenance methods in different conditions are studied, for example, quick disassembly for cleaning in the field day / night. for cleaning (without flushing the gas outlet tube, it is serviced once every 2000 shots by simply flushing with kerosene) takes about 5-6 seconds and it is never more difficult than incomplete disassembly of ak.
    3. -1
      31 July 2021 15: 24
      History of the rivalry

      what kind of rivalry?
      did not lead to a definite answer.

      didn't even lie nearby
      1. +6
        31 July 2021 17: 00
        didn't even lie nearby

        Well, you can find different pictures. For example, these are
        https://vcdn-english.vnecdn.net/2020/02/06/1624271-1580954068-1580954087-8905-1580954687_1200x0.jpg
        Well, and even posing for the camera with captured weapons is generally a good old tradition of most armies in various "hot spots".
        1. -5
          31 July 2021 20: 45
          what posing? where did you see him?
          Kalash fights around the world -70 million pieces / M16 - 8 million
          Kalash is produced in many countries / M-16 is not produced anywhere
          Kalash hangs on the coats of arms of five states at least
          The Kalash is actively used by the Americans as the main barrel whenever possible.
          AK is the most reliable weapon in dust and dirt due to the simplicity and originality of the design, which ensures the operation of all mechanisms with large gaps / M-16 - disadvantages, disadvantages and again disadvantages
          Kalash is Velik, and the USSR is his prophet.
          1. +2
            1 August 2021 02: 34
            Kalash fights around the world -70 million pieces / M16 - 8 million

            And what should this say, in addition to the fact that the military-industrial complex of the USSR for some reason produced obviously excessive quantities of personal weapons, taking into account the number of the USSR military forces, instead of which (excess weapons) it would be much better to produce consumer goods for their own the same Soviet citizens.
            Well, I have already said about the "wonderful" policy of the PRC of the times of "Chairman Mao", which at that time was distributing weapons of its own production to outright geeks and cannibals in the truest sense of the word.
            Kalash is produced in many countries

            In many, which ones are they? The point is simply that in the countries of the military-political bloc of the Warsaw Pact, in addition to the USSR, only Czechoslovakia had its own design school. In all other countries, the Soviet Union established licensed production of its own weapons, often with a turnkey delivery of the entire production line.
            In the countries of the military-political side of NATO, the situation was the opposite. Most countries had their own design schools and manufacturing firms.
            M-16 is not produced anywhere

            The original XM16 from the early 1960s really isn't produced anywhere else. Since it is outdated for a long time. But military weapons based on the M16 / M4 design are produced in a number of countries, including the United States, Canada, China (PRC), Taiwan, the Philippines, Germany, Israel, Iran (the new Iranian Fateh machine gun, which should be replaced by the Iranian Voors. forces of the G3 rifle is precisely the "variation on the theme" AR15 / M16), Montenegro, Sudan (the list is incomplete).
            The Kalash is actively used by the Americans as the main barrel whenever possible.

            Bullshit. Rather, it is a myth widespread in our country that does not become less deceitful.
            The use of captured weapons Voor. forces of the United States is reduced to one extremely specific type of situation - the actions of special forces groups behind enemy lines. Moreover, the use of captured weapons in this case is justified not by its supposedly incredibly high combat qualities, but by the possibility of replenishing ammunition "from the enemy" plus the impossibility of identifying the soldiers by the specific sound of the shots.

            So hands off the public domain !!!
            1. 0
              1 August 2021 20: 09
              Terran Ghost, stop writing nonsense, admit that there is no better Kalash, and contact our faith and everything will be fine with you laughing
              .
              AK-based assault rifles are manufactured by at least sixteen factories in 11 US states.
              1. 0
                2 August 2021 09: 22
                I will refrain from becoming familiar with the religious teachings you profess. For a number of deeply personal reasons :) XD
                AK-based assault rifles are manufactured by at least sixteen factories in 11 US states.

                Well, first of all, not machine guns, but civilian self-loading carbines. And yes, if you list the number of countries producing civilian self-loading carbines based on AR15 / M16, the list will be very long.
                And secondly, only three companies of them are actually engaged in the production "from scratch" (from metal blanks) - Century Arms, Kalashnikov USA and Palmetto State Armory (it seems that they have exactly the same completely their own production). In all other cases, we are talking about assembling from kits of spare parts (which, in turn, are obtained by cutting into parts (literally) variations of AK / AKM assault rifles produced by countries that were previously in the military-political bloc of the Warsaw Pact Organization).
      2. +2
        31 July 2021 18: 28
        "what kind of rivalry?"

        Two design schools. Two talented designers, whose inventions have spread all over the world and, of course, both samples deserve attention.
  4. +2
    31 July 2021 06: 50
    The question is that any modification of the AK can be used in modern conditions. I took out an AK-47 from strategic reserves and into battle. During the service he fired more than 74 thousand shots from AK-10 plus RPK, PKT. There was never a misfire. After 3-5 thousand, quantity turns into quality. You hit the target at 300 meters almost without aiming with one shot. For a Russian soldier, this is the best weapon. A wooden stock and bayonet are preferred if hand-to-hand combat is likely to occur. And how Vysotsky sang - is it good if plus 30 and if -30? How will M-4, M-16 work? soldier
    1. +13
      31 July 2021 07: 02
      During the service he fired more than 74 thousand shots from AK-10 plus RPK, PKT. There was never a misfire. After 3-5 thousand, quantity turns into quality. You hit the target at 300 meters almost without aiming with one shot

      I don’t believe or you served in the shooting range. This does not happen, blockages after crawling in the mud, untimely cleaning of the machine and much more ... 10 thousand ... without a single refusal ... I remembered Stanislavsky.
      1. +4
        31 July 2021 07: 15
        Quote: Konnick
        During the service he fired more than 74 thousand shots from AK-10 plus RPK, PKT. There was never a misfire. After 3-5 thousand, quantity turns into quality. You hit the target at 300 meters almost without aiming with one shot

        I don’t believe or you served in the shooting range. This does not happen, blockages after crawling in the mud, untimely cleaning of the machine and much more ... 10 thousand ... without a single refusal ... I remembered Stanislavsky.

        So I suspect - it was shot not in 1 day, but in a year or two. One barrel, which was served just. If you serve for a year, conditionally as a joke, there is less than a store by 30 per day! Yes
        1. +10
          31 July 2021 07: 21
          So I suspect - it was shot not in 1 day, but in a year or two. One barrel, which was served just. If you serve for a year, conditionally as a joke, less than a store by 30 per day

          30 rounds per day is either military action or a shooting range drinks
          Can you imagine what kind of money it is, to shoot at least 200 rubles per year .... "yes, I woo you" (c)
          1. +3
            31 July 2021 08: 00
            In the days of the USSR, this was almost the norm in normal military units. Except for the preparatory period. In our unit there were 3 battalions, each of them was allocated one and a half days of shooting grounds per week (two daytime, one night shooting, or vice versa). Each submachine gunner performed the exercise for shooting, as a rule, three times - two preparatory exercises, one test. And this is a little over 60 rounds. For going to the shooting range - about 200 rounds. And there was also a pistol. Snipers took even more cartridges, grenade launchers - less. But there are a lot of shots :)
      2. +8
        31 July 2021 11: 53
        10 thousand is really a lot. But I honestly shot a couple of thousand from AKM. Not a single misfire. Urgent took place in the border troops, in the KSAPO. Every Wednesday - shooting practice, UKS-1 and UKS-2. In the morning, a march to the training center (field training center) 6 km. The last 50 meters on their bellies in the dust. 5 minutes of rest and an obstacle course. Then 20 minutes of rest and equipment for shops. In the first 8 rounds, in the second, if I am not mistaken, 24. From the first magazine it was necessary to hit a fixed growth target at a distance of 1 meters using the UKS-400. Shoot only doublet. For a triple queue - it does not go right away. Then to the next firing point and change the store. The goal is engines, tall figures that move diagonally, imitating infantry. The last target is a machine gun crew. To hit only with doublets, for this there was a magic phrase spoken in the mind, "twenty two". And so every Wednesday. Once a month - sighting shooting at a classic target. After a couple of months, I realized that my AKM was mowing half to eleven and began to adjust the aiming. I learned how to shoot a 400 m tall one from the first doublet. After the shooting - lunch and cleaning of weapons. The machine was not new. But there was never a misfire.
        1. +9
          31 July 2021 14: 20
          I don’t know if it’s worth writing about those days and years of service. November 1975-November 1977. In training (GSHMS), instead of six months, they completed the training program in three, by the 25th Congress of the CPSU. Until the end of the training, a detachment to combat the DRG or RDG (reconnaissance and sabotage group of the enemy) with jumping from a helicopter without a parachute. Yes, there was such a technique in the CA. To China Within 100-150 km. In training, three times a week, 15 rounds at the rate. Twice as many for the convention. As a result, the machines were demolished and new ones were received. PKK and PKT once a week, plus F-1 and offensive. In the regiment he served as a warrant officer, received cartridges for shooting twice a week, gave himself and his friends three, four horns (90-120) cartridges. By the end of the service, the machine guns were again demolished, the regiment received new ones.
          The training of a real soldier is very expensive, training is effective only with the use of real ammunition. Boots in training are completely worn out, new ones were issued to the regiment, although they were issued for a year. Then they began to issue three for two years. Yes, the phrase "twenty-two" is exactly a burst of two rounds, and when throwing a grenade so that the enemy does not throw it back to you.
          September 6 will be 45 from the day of Mao Zedong's death, the tension was awaiting provocation, some could not stand it, there was self-harm and desertion, the pilot Belenko flew to Japan from a nearby air base. The troops were in constant motion. We then underestimated L.I., Brezhnev, especially when he received the Marshal and the Star of Victory. And now I would give him one more star, and it is right that he was given a marshal, he fought so hard so long as there was no war. In 1977, he did not allow a nuclear strike on China, but then old age knocked him down.
        2. +1
          31 July 2021 17: 24
          in 1ux two "eights" attacking-retreating infantry group at a distance of 250-300m, these are two "eights" in 2UKS - a dismounted infantry at a distance for AKM-350-400m, for ak-74 -400-450 hi in general, in theory, bringing the weapon to a normal battle should be carried out every time you go to the shooting, for this a training place should be equipped request it is a pity that this is sometimes neglected.
          1. 0
            1 August 2021 17: 44
            in general, in theory, bringing the weapon to a normal battle should be carried out every time you go to the shooting

            you are confusing something.
            bringing the weapon to a normal battle is carried out after the receipt of a new weapon, repair, upon detection of deflection of bullets during firing.
            a simple example - regular shooting - once a week in all line units. and what to do if there is wind or rain on these days?
            alignment of mounted scopes - yes, I partially agree
        3. Maz
          +1
          1 August 2021 21: 18
          Quote: OCefir
          10 thousand is really a lot. But I honestly shot a couple of thousand from AKM. Not a single misfire. Urgent took place in the border troops, in the KSAPO. Every Wednesday - shooting practice, UKS-1 and UKS-2. In the morning, a march to the training center (field training center) 6 km. The last 50 meters on their bellies in the dust. 5 minutes of rest and an obstacle course. Then 20 minutes of rest and equipment for shops. In the first 8 rounds, in the second, if I am not mistaken, 24. From the first magazine it was necessary to hit a fixed growth target at a distance of 1 meters using the UKS-400. Shoot only doublet. For a triple queue - it does not go right away. Then to the next firing point and change the store. The goal is engines, tall figures that move diagonally, imitating infantry. The last target is a machine gun crew. To hit only with doublets, for this there was a magic phrase spoken in the mind, "twenty two". And so every Wednesday. Once a month - sighting shooting at a classic target. After a couple of months, I realized that my AKM was mowing half to eleven and began to adjust the aiming. I learned how to shoot a 400 m tall one from the first doublet. After the shooting - lunch and cleaning of weapons. The machine was not new. But there was never a misfire.

          Hello brother, we have the same thing. Ksapo, Bakharden, Injereva. just for each "smear" in the OZK by running three laps and crawling 50m. Very motivating. And in the sergeant's school, until the target was shot down, it was necessary to crawl through the training outpost and knock it down in hand-to-hand bayonet combat. Everyone was shooting like gods.
      3. +2
        31 July 2021 14: 32
        A year ago, in a shooting range in the park, I knocked out all the targets from a replica AK-5.45, you can't drink away your skill.
        1. 0
          31 July 2021 14: 48
          Quote: V.
          A year ago, in a shooting range in the park, I knocked out all the targets from a replica AK-5.45, you can't drink away your skill.

          good
      4. +2
        31 July 2021 15: 47
        .10 thousand ... without a single refusal ...

        if the weapon is less new, not worn to white corners in critical places, one or two more less adequate owners - do not lubricate with grease, clean it in a timely manner, no one suwal bad cartridges (they have not seen cartridge hunger for a long time) - why not?
        if only stuck - but here the store influences.
        here they are with such a beveled manner on new stores (if this is to popularize shooting with an emphasis on the store) - yes, they will lead to this.
    2. -7
      31 July 2021 07: 47
      Quote: V.
      Wooden stock

      Why do you think a tubular butt was in special demand in Afghanistan, and they tried to wrap a wooden stock with something, who was lucky with a medical tourniquet ...
      1. -1
        31 July 2021 08: 55
        Quote: mat-vey
        tubular stock

        This is what - such "tubular stock"on our AK period" Afghan "?
        1. -2
          31 July 2021 09: 25
          Something like that, just a heel with options.
          https://joker.ykt.ru/uploads/posts/thumbs/1213669069_sg0055su.jpg
          1. -3
            31 July 2021 09: 40
            Quote: mat-vey
            Something like that, just a heel with options.
            https://joker.ykt.ru/uploads/posts/thumbs/1213669069_sg0055su.jpg


            What kind of "tubular butt" is it if it is a standard folding all-metal "frame" butt AKS-74 and AKS-74U?

            This (photo) can also be called a "tubular butt". Telescopic and foldable.

            But not in any way regular for the AK, and even more so not related to the time of the SA's stay in the DRA.

            1. -2
              31 July 2021 09: 48
              Quote: PiK
              What is a "tubular butt" if it is a standard folding "frame" butt AKS-74 and AKS-74U?

              Can you convince me that it is made of wood, not a steel square tube?

              Quote: mat-vey
              Why do you think a tubular butt was in special demand in Afghanistan, and they tried to wrap a wooden stock with something, who was lucky with a medical tourniquet ...

              So why, or will the game with terms begin again?
              1. -3
                31 July 2021 09: 54
                Quote: mat-vey
                Can you convince me that it is made of wood, not a steel square tube?

                I should not, and certainly not obliged to engage in your education.
                Do it yourself Yes , to begin with opening - "INSTRUCTIONS ON SMOOTING 5,45 mm Kalashnikov assault rifle (AK74, AKS74, AK74N, AKS74N) and 5,45 mm Kalashnikov light machine gun (RKP74, RPKS74, RPK74N, RPKS74N)"
                1. -3
                  31 July 2021 09: 59
                  Quote: PiK
                  I should not, and certainly not obliged to engage in your education.

                  And what, in the manual it will be said that the frame stock is made of wood, and not a pipe metal structure?
                  Well, I see ... but on the topic it means nothing?
                2. -2
                  31 July 2021 10: 34
                  It's a pity that it is impossible to share "+" and "-" - I would give you everything "+" ... it may be useful for something ...
              2. +8
                31 July 2021 10: 40
                Can you convince me that it is made of wood, not a steel square tube?

                It's actually made of a U-shaped profile ... Inside the butt, the IPP fits well. And we wrapped the butts with a tourniquet not for the convenience of shooting, but purely for medical purposes. In battle, you know, a burn is a very useful thing, to stop blood.
                1. -4
                  31 July 2021 11: 03
                  Quote: Bacha
                  Can you convince me that it is made of wood, not a steel square tube?

                  It's actually made of a U-shaped profile ... Inside the butt, the IPP fits well. And we wrapped the butts with a tourniquet not for the convenience of shooting, but purely for medical purposes. In battle, you know, a burn is a very useful thing, to stop blood.

                  Have you at least read the question? Or, as always, on VO, the purity of the terms is more important than the essence of the question? That's just for the "convenience of shooting" and wrapped. I'm sorry in woodworking and wood protection I'm not strong and I can also be wrong with the terms (you will have no complaints ?) - to protect wooden (or made with wood) parts, protective varnishes and coatings are used that at high air temperatures (No complaints about hot in Afghanistan?)
                  and if the questions of terminology were not so acute then
                  Quote: V.
                  Wooden stock

                  Maybe it would not be so
                  Quote: V.
                  preferable
                  1. +4
                    31 July 2021 11: 42
                    At + 47 ° in the shade (I did not find a greater heat), no varnishes melted on machines and did not stick to anything. I personally checked it)))
                    1. -4
                      31 July 2021 12: 50
                      Quote: Bacha
                      no varnishes melted on machines and did not stick to anything.

                      I was not personally (thank God, although they wanted to send, but at the last moment it passed), but a childhood friend for more than two years ... they wrapped the butts on the AKM with bandages, then I got a bad one, but not a frame one - the photo showed that from the tubes and the shape is more complicated. When asked what and why. Said the best option - and easier and does not stick, and the tourniquet is not always and everywhere you can get it. By the way, the Chinese unloading was the same, it seemed like it was cool, but burned out on it - he had a burn on his back was. Also shrapnel in the left wrist and concussion from which he is still disabled.
                      And yes, bacha always sounded humiliatingly contemptuous ..
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                  2. 0
                    31 July 2021 16: 04
                    Have you at least read the question?

                    Why do you think the tubular stock was in great demand in Afghanistan?

                    answer
                    the butt in the photo belongs to an assault rifle in caliber 5.45
                    wooden butts were installed on 7.62 caliber assault rifles
                    in one subdivision there can be both 5.45 and 7.62 submachine guns by state.
                    automatic 5.45 is lighter, easier to transport, the store is lighter, the cartridge is lighter - you can take much more cartridges and water with you.
                    and the Afghan rock does not care what bullet hits it - it will withstand. Dushmans did not wear body armor at that time either.
                    and the usual 5.45 bullet is worse for the dushman - when it sticks into the body, it starts to somersault.
                    based on this - your "tubular butt" and enjoyed more popularity.
                2. +1
                  31 July 2021 17: 41
                  they wrapped the butts with a tourniquet and inserted the hipp not for this, but out of great stupidity. in case of injury and the need to cover the tourniquet, unwinding from the butt is a loss of precious time, the tourniquet should always be at hand and quickly removed, usually its place is in the unloading. hipp-inside a sterile bandage with two cotton-gauze pads, in case of damage to the PPI, it cannot be used. And the rubberized shell itself is dashingly forced out while in the butt, and in theory it should be used in case of a penetrating wound of the chest cavity to avoid pneumothorax.
                  1. +2
                    1 August 2021 19: 01
                    in fact, you write everything correctly, but in life everything was not so.
                    and why? Yes, because there are no unloading, no pockets.
                    there are no sensible backpacks.
                    only more often to change the hipp and harness in such conditions. or sew on pockets.
                    but someone's sewn-on pocket under the hippie will not give uniformity in packing, so the one who came to provide assistance will have to look for it.


    3. +1
      31 July 2021 15: 29
      You hit the target at 300 meters almost without aiming with one shot

      under the terms of the course of shooting for single shooting, they reduce the grade
    4. +4
      31 July 2021 17: 01
      Wooden stock and bayonet are preferred if hand-to-hand combat is likely to occur

      On the M16A2 and M4, you can also install a bayonet and use a rifle with a bayonet in hand-to-hand combat.
      You hit the target at 300 meters almost without aiming with one shot

      Fresh tradition .... XD
  5. +7
    31 July 2021 07: 04
    I read up to "In 1947, the Soviet troops outstripped us with AK-47" and gave up. I immediately understood the competence of the author.
  6. +2
    31 July 2021 07: 14
    The obsession is good, but the brain almost exploded from machine translation :(
  7. +6
    31 July 2021 07: 16
    Quote: V.
    You hit the target at 300 meters almost without aiming with one shot

    Moreover, standing with his back to the target.
    The last name is not Grimm, by any chance?
    1. 0
      31 July 2021 08: 05
      A height of 300 meters for an experienced shooter is normal, according to the table of exceeding the trajectories by 300 meters of AK 74, the excess is 18 centimeters, it is possible to fire at head targets.
      1. +4
        31 July 2021 08: 14
        the excess is 18 centimeters, you can fire at head targets.

        No theory needed, please write down the size of the growth target compared to the AKM or AK74 front sight at 350 meters, although at shooting ranges, at such a line, there are usually "machine gun" targets ... theorists ... 18 centimeters ...
        1. +1
          31 July 2021 09: 45
          Did you serve in the army at all? Here are the standards for the exercise, note that the targets are belt, not height.

          2 UUS

          Shooting from a spot at an emerging target
          from various positions

          Target: attacking infantry group - two riflemen, waist figures (target number 7) appear twice at the front at least 6 m for 20 seconds (day and night).

          Range to goals, m:

          Type of weapon Purpose
          Attacking (retreating) infantry group
          7,62 mm (5,45 mm) automatic 300-400
          7,62 mm (5,45 mm) 400-500 light machine gun
          7,62 mm machine gun Kalashnikov 400-500
          7,62 mm sniper rifle 400-500
          Ammo Amount:

          for an assault rifle and a light machine gun, a PK machine gun - 24, of which 6 - with tracer bullets;
          for a sniper rifle - 8, of which 2 are tracer bullets.
          1. +3
            31 July 2021 10: 16
            Did you serve in the army at all?

            And you were at a typical army shooting range, that you want to show me a copyright from the Internet, I asked a specific question.
            The size of the growth target relative to the front sight.
            1. +1
              31 July 2021 15: 58
              I bring to your attention, growth target N8, at a distance of 300 meters, two AK 74 flies will climb vertically and three in width.
      2. +3
        31 July 2021 08: 15
        That's it. The key word is "experienced". Tell me, what part of the growth target at a distance of 300 m is covered by the front sight of the AK assault rifle?
        1. +4
          31 July 2021 08: 29
          We commented "you can fire on head targets" almost simultaneously.
          I would also add fire, it is possible to conduct, only it is impossible to hit laughing
          1. +2
            31 July 2021 08: 44
            Exactly.
            There, in the front sight, as it were, not three widths of the growth target will appear.
            I'm not talking about the "head" one.
        2. +3
          31 July 2021 08: 50
          Maybe he shot with a sawn-off front sight))
  8. +1
    31 July 2021 07: 54
    or they are not convinced by the usefulness of the 6,8mm designs.

    If I remember correctly, ours are sculpting something like that at 6.8mm. Even on trials already. I just forgot that either a pistol or a machine gun ...
  9. +1
    31 July 2021 09: 35
    I did not hold AK-12 in my hands and did not shoot ... but I can criticize! bully I mean, I read not so long ago an article by a certain army man, where he criticized the AK-12 ... for some reason he did not like him! Unfortunately, then I quickly "ran my eyes over the page" ... but, usually, in this case, I often put the article in the appropriate "folder" of the "archive" ... you can then search, if that ...
  10. +2
    31 July 2021 14: 23
    Quote: Ingenegr
    In general, there are a lot of questions about the AK-12's "chips", and the main question is "why"?

    I also read the article and thought that it was not about the main performance characteristics, which were only briefly mentioned in the comments from the Americans, but about the "chips" without which you can easily do without. In short, we compared who the paint looks better. I would like to see a general comparison of the reliability of this weapon.
  11. +3
    31 July 2021 14: 30
    Quote: Cat Alexandrovich
    I read up to "In 1947, the Soviet troops outstripped us with AK-47" and gave up. I immediately understood the competence of the author.

    Yeah, and there should be a sequel, like "after the AK-47 was released, we finally understood how to make the right weapon and things went briskly for us ...".
  12. +6
    31 July 2021 14: 38
    This is not an AK-12, but an ersatz version based on 74 with all the "jambs" that did not suit the MO type of shutter not stand by. And the real AK-12, unfortunately, was abandoned at the prototype stage and without bringing it to its logical conclusion, here it is in the photo. And the sight on this surrogate who has moved to the gas pipe like on the Galil-Type Assault Rifle looks wretched.
  13. +1
    31 July 2021 15: 10
    I think it's clear that the M4 and M16 series rifles are paving the way for modern firearm design and emphasizing modularity as a concept. Obviously, the AK-12 drew some inspiration from its western counterpart. The AK-12 certainly helps to professionalize the Russian military, and I expect it to have a fairly successful lifespan.
    - about the higher professionalism of the amerovskih military said well, right to the point! It is only necessary to clarify what the Americans themselves mean by this, and in this matter I fully rely on the American press:
    1. Due to the design features of the M-16, it should be cleaned according to all instructions 3-5 times a day. It is advisable to clean it indoors so as not to lose small parts. This is what defines the professionalism of amerovskih soldiers.
    2. AK is a barbarian machine. Therefore, cartridges for it can be equipped not with gunpowder, but with dried manure. In Vietnam, the American problem was that the M-16 was developed for special gunpowder IMR4475, while cartridges 7,62 were equipped with WC846 gunpowder. To unify the ammunition equipment, the army team, without hesitation, bought cartridges with WC16 gunpowder for the M-846. And the soul rushed to heaven - it turned out that with WC846 the M-16 rifle was absolutely unreliable. More precisely, hopeless. So in general, the M-16 is designed for greenhouse conditions and God forbid ...
    3. The most valuable thing about the M-16 is that every 10th fully loaded magazine gives a delay when firing in the absence of dustiness, freezing temperatures, etc. Therefore, according to all instructions, it is recommended to under-equip magazines for 2-3 rounds. Americans are proud of it. Because if the cartridge is "buried" in the M-16, then by striking the button of the bolt rammer it (cartridge) can still be hammered into the chamber. The barbarian AK machine does not have such a button, and the Americans claim that in such a situation, you can beat off your hand against the AK bolt grip. A question to the studio: has anyone ever hit the bolt handle to send a cartridge to an AK of any modification? I do not consider the option of sand in the chamber.
    4. When crossing a water barrier with the barbarian AK-74 machine, it is enough to shake the barrel down and you can shoot. When water enters the M-16 barrel, it is no longer possible to shake it out due to capillary forces. Therefore, if the M-16 gets into the water, it needs to be disassembled, otherwise it's a kapets. Why with the same caliber I don’t know such a difference. Amers, apparently, have other physical laws.
    5. M-16 is a representative of exclusively amerovskoy concept of "long infantry gun". This is another version of the "button war", i.e. combat at distances inaccessible to the enemy. Therefore, the Americans swear by their mother that the M-16 can be aimed at as much as 1000 yards. To put it mildly, let’s not let you. The concept of small-caliber weapons is based on the fact that, statistically, the absolute majority of defeats with small arms in real combat occur at distances of up to 300 m. At distances up to 400 m, a small-caliber bullet has a greater lethal force than 7,62. Therefore, this caliber is more profitable for mass weapons. However, then the small-bore bullet quickly loses speed and hello. Therefore, competing at a distance, for example, 800 m, M-16 against SVD, would probably be a stupid idea. Whatever sophisticated sights on the M-16 were.
    6. For the "long infantry gun" specific automation is needed. In the M-16, it is very specific - it does not have a gas piston. The role of the gas piston is played by the shutter itself. With this design, the movable mass of the bolt is reduced and the firing accuracy is increased. Therefore, the Americans themselves call the M-16 "sporting rifle". True, they use this nickname in an abusive context. The role of the gas outlet tube in the M-16 is played by the mirror surface of the receiver. Therefore, God forbid, a little sand or even just powder carbon deposits in the receiver and hello - you need to run for a new rifle. Therefore, the M-16 must be cleaned 5 times a day indoors. All the troubles of the M-16 are precisely because of the desire to shoot beyond the horizon. Thanks to specific automation, the most disgusting thing about the M-16 is the case extraction system. It is enough to fart loudly next to the rifle, smear the wrong lubricant or do something else obscene, for example, use the wrong gunpowder, and the sleeve is guaranteed to remain in the chamber. You can only knock it out with a ramrod. Therefore, the M-16 can only be owned by a high-class professional, which is not available in the Russian army!
    PS. Americans claim that the main advantage of the M-16 over the AK is that it can be removed from the fuse faster. I don’t know, I didn’t.
    1. 0
      31 July 2021 17: 44
      Due to the design features of the M-16, according to all instructions, it must be cleaned 3-5 times a day.

      Not necessary. According to "OPERATOR'S MANUAL FOR RIFLE, 5.56 MM, M16A2 W / E (1005-01-128-9936) (ElC: 4GM) RIFLE, 5.56 MM, M16A3 (1005-01-367-5112) RIFLE, 5.56 MM, M16A4 ( 1005-01-383-2872) (ElC: 4F9) CARBINE, 5.56 MM, M4 W / E (1005-01-231-0973) (EIC: 4FJ) CARBINE, 5.56 MM, M4A1 (1005-01-0953) ( ElC: 4GC) "M16A3 / A4 rifles and M4 / M4A1 assault rifles must be cleaned once a day.
      The most valuable thing about the M-16 is that every 10th fully loaded magazine gives a delay when firing in the absence of dustiness, freezing temperatures, etc.

      And this statement, of course, is false (that is, it has nothing to do with reality)
      According to the military acceptance standards of the US Armed Forces (MIL-DTL-70599B dated January 20, 1994), the maximum allowable number of any delays in firing for the M4 / M4A1 assault rifle is 9 for 6000 rounds for any individual sample from the control group of 4 submachine guns and 22 to 24 000 shots (6000 shots from each machine gun) for the entire control group. If the requirements are not met, the ENTIRE batch of machines is rejected, acceptance does not pass and is returned to the manufacturer (of course, without paying for the order).
      So in general, the M-16 is designed for greenhouse conditions and God forbid ...

      And this is yet another lie.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyaSAuT0NR0
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAneTFiz5WU
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyXndCxn9K4
      https://youtu.be/z3hBXCvYIuk?t=125
      Therefore, according to all instructions, it is recommended to under-equip magazines for 2-3 rounds.

      And this is also not true. It is NOT recommended to load the magazine with more cartridges than the standard one (that is, try to push 30-31 rounds into a 32-cartridge magazine).
      When water enters the M-16 barrel, it is no longer possible to shake it out due to capillary forces. Therefore, if the M-16 gets into the water, it needs to be disassembled, otherwise it's a kapets.

      Another lie. You just need to direct the barrel of the rifle down and slightly pull back the cocking handle.
      For comparison, from the Manual on shooting for AK74M
      "The assault rifle (machine gun) should be protected from water entering the bore. If water enters the bore, before firing, pull the moving parts back when the assault rifle (machine gun) is positioned with the muzzle of the barrel down and shake the assault rifle (machine gun) several times; water will flow out of the barrel. "
      M-16 is a representative of exclusively amerovskoy concept of "long infantry gun". This is another version of the "button war", i.e. combat at distances inaccessible to the enemy. Therefore, the Americans swear by their mother that the M-16 can be aimed at as much as 1000 yards.

      And again lies. Even two lies at once.
      The declared effective range of XM16 / M16A1 fire is 500 yards (460 meters). Moreover, at the beginning of the 1960s, when this rifle was put into service, the existence of many types of weapons that had an effective range of 1000 yards or more was obvious to the military.
      Well, let me ask you, what is fundamentally bad about the concept of creating weapons that surpass the weapons of potential adversaries in effective range?
      Therefore, the Americans themselves call the M-16 "sporting rifle". True, they use this nickname in an abusive context.

      Not called. False slanderous hoax authored by an anonymous schoolboy from one of the countries of the former USSR who wrote under the pseudonym "Deng Sheni" (who never existed in reality) belongs to the dustbin of history.
      The role of the gas outlet tube in the M-16 is played by the mirror surface of the receiver.

      What?
      Therefore, God forbid, a little sand or even just powder carbon deposits in the receiver and hello - you need to run for a new rifle.

      Another lie again
      https://youtu.be/z3hBXCvYIuk?t=125
      https://youtu.be/BYenZXvGhDs?t=53
      https://youtu.be/mrPjlcJ3rtY?t=15

      So hands off the public domain !!!
      1. The comment was deleted.
    2. +3
      31 July 2021 18: 39
      straight from the very first point, the hickey and nonsense begins lol Have you ever disassembled the microcontroller for cleaning, that is, make an incomplete disassembly ??? I think not. I will try to fill the gap in your knowledge drinks you snap off the magazine, remove the T-shaped reloading bar, make sure that there is no cartridge in the chamber, if you were on the slide lag, you remove it from it, pushes the cotter pin (check) in the rear of the receiver, lift the aper up to the top, grasp the bolt stem with your hand and move it it together with the bar back and separate it from the receiver downwards. remove the anti-rebound buffer and the gas exhaust pipe, the bolt group, if necessary, the last one is washed every few thousand shots. for the convenience of cleaning, you can generally disconnect the receivers by pushing the front check. here are what small parts are possible here lose ???? if you manage to lose the check connecting the receivers, then you can just as well wipe the bolt carrier from the AK when disassembling laughing
      1. +4
        1 August 2021 10: 30
        A deceitful slanderous hoax by an anonymous schoolboy from one of the countries of the former USSR, who wrote under the pseudonym "Deng Sheni" (a person who never existed in reality) a place in the dustbin of history.
        - I will not argue with you! Let Dan Sheny be a schoolboy from the former USSR. However, the advantage of this student is that he knows the design of the M-16 much better than you. On the other hand, I agree that I did not describe the constructive scheme of the M-16 very clearly. Therefore, I will refer to the authority of the gunsmith-designer Mikhail Timofeevich Kalashnikov
        This is not our option, it is more suitable for shooting at a range than on the battlefield. In itself, the engineering idea with a bolt carrier in the form of a cylindrical part tightly fitted to the walls of the bolt box is quite interesting. But the operation of the entire mechanism is capable of destroying even the slightest contamination that cannot be removed mechanically. We compared AKM and M16 in equal conditions on bench tests - they used it hard, with sand, water, in the cold. The American was losing in all these positions. At the same time, it was distinguished by greater accuracy at short distances, accuracy of firing single shots, cutoffs for firing three rounds, the ability to replace the store with the subsequent continuation of firing without cocking the shutter. I liked a lot about it, but all the subsequent domestic developments of our enterprise did not use anything from the American experience. It is because of the loss of reliability in combat conditions
        .
        On my own I will add that the powder gases entering the receiver for the operation of the automatics form a mixture with lubricant that is capable of tightly jamming the bolt. Therefore, with the lubricant in M-16, you need to be very, very careful and clean it every minute. I sincerely hope that the American Marines will take your recommendation and will only clean their rifles once a day.
        Before accusing someone of lying, make sure not to lie yourself:
        “When water enters the M-16 barrel, it is no longer possible to shake it out due to capillary forces. Therefore, if the M-16 gets into the water, it needs to be disassembled, otherwise it's a mess. "
        Another lie. You just need to direct the barrel of the rifle down and slightly pull back the cocking handle.

        As proof of this pearl, you presented a video in which the M-16 handguard was hosed during firing. Don't make me laugh with this advertising gimmick of the manufacturer. The video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGwkHktkTxU shows comparative water hammer tests of HK416 and M-16. After immersion in water, the HK416 scalds in both single and bursts. Under the same conditions, at the first shot, the M-16's receiver inflated and knocked the magazine out of its nest. Cannot be restored. The HK416 is a German assault rifle adapted to the American AR15 modular system, created by Heckler & Koch. In passing, I note that the HK416 is such a good machine with German quality! I would buy myself one!
        According to the military acceptance standards of the US Armed Forces (MIL-DTL-70599B dated January 20, 1994), the maximum allowable number of any delays in firing for the M4 / M4A1 assault rifle is ...

        And once again you made me laugh! In my statements, nowhere is it said about the low quality of the M-16. I am talking about design flaws, which the military acceptance is not able to eliminate.
        Another pearl of yours:
        And this is also not true. It is NOT recommended to load the magazine with more cartridges than the standard one (that is, try to push 30-31 rounds into a 32-cartridge magazine).
        - Do you want to convince me that the M-16 magazine can hold more cartridges than is provided for by the design ?! Is it like this? Do you have any idea of ​​the subject area at all? Quote:
        For the rifle, 2 main magazine options were developed: for 20 and 30 rounds. However, design flaws do not allow them to work adequately in full condition. The optimal amount, at which there were no problems with the operation of the automation: 17 and 28 rounds, respectively.

        I appreciate your love for the USA, but I do not share it! Therefore, I understand your hatred for Dan Sheny, although I did not explicitly refer to him.
        1. 0
          1 August 2021 12: 25
          Therefore, I will refer to the authority of the gunsmith-designer Mikhail Timofeevich Kalashnikov

          1) Where did the quote come from. There is one small problem with quotes on the Internet - they are often unreliable.
          2) Any designer will praise his own product first. It is strange to expect anything different from him.
          3) Now to the technical details.
          Quote: "The engineering idea itself, with a bolt carrier in the form of a cylindrical piece tightly fitted to the walls of the bolt box, is quite interesting."
          The statement is simply not true. The AR15 / M16 bolt carrier is "hung" on 4 guides. This is not the Suomi PP with its "vacuum deceleration" system and not even the FN FAL (where the bolt carrier was really tight on the first Belgian models and because of this there were problems. Then the Brazilian gunsmiths corrected this, of course).
          https://i.ytimg.com/vi/MA-qC0SaYQU/maxresdefault.jpg
          As proof of this pearl, you presented a video in which the M-16 handguard is hosed during firing.

          The video "with watering from a hose" I did not bring at all.
          And here is the immersion video
          https://youtu.be/x5JAxMf-XiU?t=45
          On my own I will add that the powder gases entering the receiver for the operation of the automatics form a mixture with lubricant that is capable of tightly jamming the bolt

          Wrong again. The effect you described does not exist at all.
          Don't make me laugh with this advertising gimmick of the manufacturer. On video

          On the video you just showed the advertising trick of the manufacturer. Specifically, Heckler & Koch. Unlike the videos I have cited, which are not authored by weapons manufacturers.
          German machine gun adapted to the American modular system AR15, created by Heckler & Koch. In passing, I note that the HK416 is such a good machine with German quality.

          "Heckler-Koch 416" is not "adapted for". This is the same AR15 / M16 system. The only difference is the use of a piston with a short stroke instead of a "direct exhaust" system. And yes, any AR15 based rifle is easily adaptable to such a system. Regardless of the manufacturer of the original rifle, there are special conversion kits. And also from different manufacturing companies.
          There is no definite answer to the question - which works more reliably in the field.
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyXndCxn9K4
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYAEGgf_8LU
          oh, what did it break? :)
          On the one hand, a system with a "direct" gas outlet is more protected from external contamination due to tightness, moreover, it has the effect of "blowing" sand and dust out of the receiver, the effect of jamming of the piston itself from dirt or mechanical problems is excluded.
          On the other hand, the system with a gas piston is less sensitive to the quality of lubricant and gunpowder, it is much easier to endure the situation when a fighter for one reason or another missed the daily (and more often it is not necessary, really) "ritual of lubricating the weapon again", and, much less heats up from intensive shooting (this is especially true for the short M4, on the full-size M16A3 / A4 the problem is less pronounced).
          Actually, if things were different, "Colt" would have switched to a piston scheme even during the transition to the M16A2. Because such an option was already developed by the company and is almost ready for implementation in mass production (in fact, it was done in case the problems with poor-quality gunpowder in cartridges during the Vietnam War could not be resolved).
          And once again you made me laugh! In my statements, nowhere is it said about the low quality of the M-16. I am talking about design flaws, which the military acceptance is not able to eliminate.

          You generally read what the speech is about. The maximum allowable number of delays in firing for M4 assault rifles is no more than 9 per 6 shots for any one assault rifle from a batch, and no more than 000 per 22 for a control group of 24 assault rifles.
          Structurally, the standard number of shots between the occurrence of delays during firing under normal operating conditions (MRBF - mean rounds between failures) for the M4 assault rifle manufactured by FN (these are the ones currently purchased by the US Military Forces) exceeds 1500 (one and a half thousand). And this is not ten full stores, but fifty.
          Do you want to convince me that the M-16 magazine can hold more cartridges than is provided by the design ?! Is it like this?

          Specifically, the first aluminum 20-seat stores for the M16 were distinguished by ... extremely bad qualities. The reason is that stores were originally conceived as disposable. Used it - immediately threw it away. But they were used as reusable.
          However, aluminum USGI stores still do not have the highest (to put it mildly) combat performance. Therefore, all other countries using machines based on AR15 / M16 use higher quality stores, and the American soldiers themselves often buy better quality stores from the same P-Mag company for their money.
          This really does not apply to the shortcomings of the rifle itself.
          your love for the USA

          And where is someone's love or dislike for a particular country like the United States?
          A trivial example is a long-standing conflict between the governments of the United States and Iran, both sides impose embargo on each other and shower various curses through diplomatic channels. However, the promising Iranian army rifle Fateh, which is supposed to replace the G3 rifle with the Iranian army, was suddenly created on the design of the AR15 / M16.
          1. 0
            2 August 2021 11: 55
            Terran Ghost! That's right! Who is Kalashnikov? “Some pitiful loser. Whether you are the World lamp of weapon knowledge! You reproach me for calling you a US patriot. Well, how else can you explain your total illiterate lies on any occasion? Simple example:
            "Heckler-Koch 416" is not "adapted for". This is the same AR15 / M16 system. The only difference is the use of a piston with a short stroke instead of a "direct exhaust" system.
            - you yourself are not funny ?! A short stroke piston and a "direct exhaust" system are fundamentally different systems. An example of a system with a short piston stroke is the SKS carbine, which was put into service in the Soviet army back in 1949. Can you name anything in common between SKS and M-16? The difference between the M-16 and the HK416 is that during the publicity stunt the M-16 was blown to smithereens, the HK416 worked like a clock. The reason is the difference in designs. From HK416 description:
            To improve the quality and ease of use, the gas outlet system used in the M16 has been replaced by a much more reliable, easy-to-use and less sensitive to contamination scheme with a short gas piston stroke. Both the return mechanism and the shutter were improved.
            - and this is the same M-16 ?!
            You repeated a similar lie again:
            A trivial example is a long-standing conflict between the governments of the United States and Iran, both sides impose embargoes on each other and shower various curses through diplomatic channels. However, the promising Iranian army rifle Fateh, which is supposed to replace the G3 rifle with the Iranian army, was suddenly created on the design of the AR15 / M16.

            Alas and ah!
            Fateh (Pers. Conqueror) is an unlicensed Iranian copy of the FN SCAR assault rifle.
            ...
            Description of construction
            The FN SCAR automatics work by removing part of the powder gases from the bore. The gas piston stroke is short, it is separated from the bolt carrier and placed in the gas block above the barrel.
            - What is the connection between FN SCAR and M-16? As you can see, all the same variations on the theme of the good old SCS. In passing, I note that the FN SCAR was developed by the American division of the famous Belgian company FN Herstal, so it’s not quite an American rifle. And certainly not Colt.
            Another pearl of yours:
            the system with "direct" gas outlet is more protected from external contamination due to tightness, moreover, it has the effect of "blowing" sand and dust out of the receiver, the effect of jamming of the piston itself from dirt or mechanical problems is excluded.
            -
            Another portion of your lies about the lack of design flaws:
            ... Therefore, all other countries using machines based on AR15 / M16 use higher quality stores, and American soldiers themselves often buy better quality stores from the same P-Mag company for their money.
            This really does not apply to the shortcomings of the rifle itself.
            - who would have thought! Quote:
            ... As such, they call, first of all, the low reliability of the weapon, especially in the hands of a relatively inexperienced or careless fighter in handling it, or in conditions when careful maintenance of the rifle is simply impossible, in contrast to the Kalashnikov assault rifle. That is why, it is believed that because of this, the M16 is of little use for long autonomous hikes.
            The reason for this lies mainly in the design of the weapon: its bolt-carrier has the form of a cylindrical part, quite tightly fitted to the walls of the bolt-carrier (“receiver” - upper reciever) made of a relatively soft aluminum alloy, the inner surface which does not have developed "pockets" for the removal of contaminants. This leads to the fact that if dirt or sand gets into the cavity of the receiver, the weapon either stops firing immediately, or when firing without immediate cleaning, it can very quickly fail completely.
            Moreover, this happens, contrary to the measures taken by the designers to seal the weapon, such as the introduction of a spring-loaded curtain closing the window for ejecting the casings (which opens automatically when firing) or the elimination of the slot for the cocking handle (the handle is located behind the receiver and is stationary when firing, which in itself led to a decrease in reliability and the appearance of such an additional part as a forward assist, which allows it to be closed if, for one reason or another, it does not reach the extreme forward position under the action of the return spring itself, and the risk of such a delay in the M16 increased due to its characteristic design of the mechanism for removing the sleeves with a spring reflector attached to the bolt, the spring of which is compressed when the cartridge is sent, taking energy from the moving system of the weapon).
            In addition, the repeatedly criticized system of "direct" (without a gas piston) gas engine (English direct impingement), which is the most significant feature of the design of Stoner rifles, also does not differ in high reliability, contributes to the contamination of the weapon mechanism with powder carbon deposits, its increased wear due to due to high temperatures and the formation of aggressive chemicals, and requires the use of consistently high quality gunpowder in cartridges, as well as frequent changes and additions of lubricant due to its "burnout" during shooting - and the lubricant used must also be of very high quality. The thin tube connecting the cavity of the bolt box with the gas outlet on the barrel is also a weak point of the weapon, as it heats up under intense fire (sometimes to such an extent that it even starts to glow in the dark) and can burst.

            Another pearl of yours about the M-16 trouble-free shutter:
            ... The statement is simply not true. The AR15 / M16 bolt carrier is "hung" on 4 guides.

            Show me these mythical 4 guides of yours:
            1. 0
              2 August 2021 12: 39
              A short stroke piston and a "direct exhaust" system are fundamentally different systems.

              The garbage is that specifically the AR15 / M16 design can successfully function in two versions - with a "direct" gas outlet and with a gas piston with a short stroke. Moreover, a relatively easy conversion of one version to another is possible on already produced carbines. Google the AR-15 gas piston conversion kit. There are many of them on the civilian weapons market.
              The difference between the M-16 and the HK416 is that during a publicity stunt

              Key phrase - during a publicity stunt. The manufacturer ALWAYS advertises its product and NEVER - the competitor's product.
              From HK416 description:

              You have copied the text on Wikipedia. So what?
              less sensitive to contamination scheme with a short gas piston stroke

              The statement about "less sensitive to pollution" is controversial.
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyXndCxn9K4
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYAEGgf_8LU
              oh, what did it break, and what continued to work after dipping into the mud? :)
              and what is the connection between the FN SCAR and the M-16? As you can see, all the same variations on the theme of the good old SCS

              Hmm. Again you amaze with "heights of knowledge". First, FN SCAR has nothing to do with SCS. The AR18 has a straight line. But this is not about that.
              This is what the production version of the Fateh rifle looks like.
              https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/military/images/3/3c/3jqx_20150922_081221.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20190122224304
              Oops. The reason is probably that the FN SCAR is very expensive in principle. Unlicensed copies of it (like the recent Japanese Howa 2020 rifle), with normal workmanship, turn out to be ... also very expensive. But if for the Japanese Self-Defense Forces an infantry rifle at a price of $ 2500-3000 per gun turned out to be acceptable ...
              Another pearl of yours about the M-16 trouble-free shutter:

              And you are copying the Russian-language Wikipedia again. I will not even disassemble. This is a completely quoted false, slanderous vying of the so-called. "Dana Sheni" (a non-existent person, the pseudonym of the anonymous student I have already mentioned).
              Show me these mythical 4 guides of yours:

              showing again
              https://i.ytimg.com/vi/MA-qC0SaYQU/maxresdefault.jpg

              HANDS OFF PUBLIC DOMAIN !!!!
              1. +2
                2 August 2021 15: 50
                As a matter of fact, further dialogue does not make sense. You belong to that widespread category of Americans that the late Zadornov loved to talk about. In the arms business, you are not just zero (zero), but an imaginary one.

                The photo you presented shows the front (more precisely, closer to the middle part) of the M-16 bolt carrier. In diameter, this part is smaller than the back, which is not shown in the photo (the photo is cropped on the right). The second picture shows the bolt carrier in its entirety (1):

                This figure clearly shows that the rear of the bolt carrier is larger in diameter than the front. It is she who plays the role of the piston, which push the powder gases along the barrel of the receiver for the operation of the automation. It goes without saying that there are no guides on the piston and cannot be because in this case it is impossible to ensure sufficient tightness of the cylinder-piston pair. This is what I am trying to bring to your mind in different versions. But if there is no mind, then aspirin will no longer help.
                The first picture shows the bottom of the receiver cylinder in which this piston moves. A solid gap is visible between the slide rails in its front part and the receiver cylinder. This gap is indicated by a red arrow. If not only the front part of the bolt carrier, but also its piston does not fit snugly against the receiver cylinder, then the M-16 automatics will stop working. To do this, it is enough to pour a little sand into the receiver. The bolt is steel, and the receiver is made of aluminum alloy. The sand will blow it to the holes.
                The weak point of the entire design of the M-16 is precisely this pair of the bolt carrier piston and the receiver cylinder. Klinit right here. Well, in order for the M-16 to jam, it is enough to clean the rifle once a day, use a non-Colt lubricant, put the lubricant in a thicker layer, etc., etc. In the M-16, this is not a removable design flaw.
                The guides on the front of the bolt carrier are designed to prevent the round bolt carrier from rotating in the round receiver during its forward movement. Otherwise, the shutter will not close and open. I can't imagine a situation where the bolt carrier gets stuck in the area of ​​these guides.
                All that nonsense, all that nonsense that you carry is a rehash of advertising brochures of the Colt company of the Vietnam era (you can't fake it, you can't sell it) and a cheeky article by the staff propagandist of the Washington regional committee, Charles Cowan, "Small arms in Operation Desert Storm", published in the American magazine "Guns and Ammo". All this is multiplied by your blatant technical illiteracy, your rudeness and inability to understand basic things. Gunsmithing is clearly not for you. This follows at least from the fact that you are not able to distinguish between such fundamental concepts as the design of the weapon and the design of the weapon.
                1. 0
                  2 August 2021 16: 55
                  In the arms business, you are not just zero (zero), but an imaginary one.

                  After which, however, came such pearls, which I have not seen for a long time
                  The photo you presented shows the front (more precisely, closer to the middle part) of the M-16 bolt carrier. In diameter, this part is smaller than the back, which is not shown in the photo (the photo is cropped on the right). The second picture shows the bolt carrier in its entirety.

                  There is, however, exactly one big "but" - in the front part, where the guides are actually located, on which the bolt carrier is hung in the receiver, the bolt carrier is not at all cylindrical in shape.
                  http://www.operationalmedicine.org/TextbookFiles/FMST_20008/Block%205/1219a/image032.jpg
                  the rear of the bolt carrier is larger in diameter than the front. It is she who plays the role of the piston, which push the powder gases along the barrel of the receiver for the operation of the automation. It goes without saying that there are no guides on the piston and cannot be because in this case it is impossible to ensure sufficient tightness of the cylinder-piston pair

                  1) Your conclusion is completely NOT true (that is, it is false).
                  2) The gas piston in the weapon does NOT even have to fit snugly against the walls of the gas chamber or whatever plays its role. Not to mention ensuring tightness.
                  If not only the front part of the bolt carrier, but also its piston does not fit snugly against the receiver cylinder, then the M-16 automatics will stop working. To do this, it is enough to pour a little sand into the receiver.

                  The weak point of the entire design of the M-16 is precisely this pair of the bolt carrier piston and the receiver cylinder. Klinit right here.

                  You yourself are not unhappy with being disgraced by exposing your own blatant incompetence in the question that you undertook to discuss?
      2. +1
        1 August 2021 10: 34

        I may be wrong, but there is much more detail in the picture than you listed.
        1. +2
          1 August 2021 12: 26
          but there is much more detail in the picture than you listed.

          Do you understand the difference between incomplete and complete disassembly of weapons?
          For reference, it is not something that fighters are not taught to carry out a complete disassembly of the AK74M assault rifle - they are simply prohibited from doing this. It is only carried out by qualified gunsmiths in a suitably equipped workshop.
          1. +1
            1 August 2021 13: 57
            not that they are prohibited, but at least by the most experienced fighter and exclusively in the location of the unit.
        2. +2
          1 August 2021 13: 56
          Of course you are mistaken, you brought the explosion to the circuit, but I told you about incomplete disassembly for cleaning and maintenance, which is quite used in the field. If you look for the same circuit for ak, then you will also not be very pleasantly surprised by the number of small parts.
      3. 0
        2 August 2021 12: 17
        For Korax71. Forgive us orphans! We live in the forest and pray to the wheel! Where can we compete with such experts as you! Therefore, of course, we are not able to distinguish the subtle difference between complete and incomplete disassembly. When I read your post that
        if you manage to lose the check connecting the receivers, then with the same success you can lose the bolt carrier from the AK during disassembly
        then I thought that the cotter pin itself has a diameter of five centimeters and a length of thirty centimeters. I began to figure out where to fit a piece of iron of this size into the M-16. - Well, it doesn't fit there! I had to look at the manual and here he is dear in the photo:

        There is no doubt - it is impossible to lose such a cotter pin in the grass or sand! It's easier to lose the receiver from the AK.
        In the second photo, the details of the bolt carrier to be cleaned:

        As you can see, all the details are exceptionally "large". You can, of course, not clean them 5 times a day. Only then will the M-16 have to be used as a club.
        1. +1
          2 August 2021 16: 20
          as you can see, twisting the fillet is not to turn the bags. point by point: in order to completely dismantle the check and the receiver, you need to use the tool, why do this at all, it remains a mystery, but you probably know the answer. young man, if you show a photo of the bolt carrier After the shooting, the AK will think about disassembling it for cleaning, then the drummer is attached there with a sooooo small pin, which cannot be removed without a pencil case with tools, and it is just as easy to wipe it in the field.
  14. +2
    31 July 2021 16: 57
    Quote: PiK
    No one in the Russian infantry will know how to handle an AK-12 until they surrender their AK-74 series rifle in exchange for a new one. And there will be no innovations here.

    Honestly, it is not entirely clear to me what this article contains more - the original author's material, or Google - translation from the original (https://www.sandboxx.us/blog/russias-answer-to-the-m4-breaking -down-the-new-ak-12 /)

    It is unclear what goals such afftors pursue ... At least this is elementary disrespect.

    "Survey sight" instead of a diopter sight. Well, the author of English would not know grief, then at least he could have guessed if he had elementary shooting training, and even that is evidently not.
  15. Alf
    0
    31 July 2021 18: 46
    We've all seen videos in the past in which AKs melted or set fire to the forend during long automatic firing.

    Absolutely right. Here are just a "small" clarification - these AKs were not Soviet.
    1. 0
      1 August 2021 10: 30
      The Soviet tree on the AK also burns well ...
      And if it doesn't burn, then it burns the hand.
      But to bring the AK to such a state - you need to either be a great craftsman in peacetime, or in the military to get into an asshole ...
  16. +3
    31 July 2021 21: 11
    The AK-12 that was PLANNED is not at all the one that was adopted. Yes, there are some minor improvements - namely the body kit and picatinny bars. But if the same planks are hung on Berdanka, it will not become modern. The fact that the bolt handle was bent up - congratulations, it was still on GALILA. Well done. The wheel was invented. What is the main problem with the entire AK series? A) Insufficiently rigid receiver. In slow motion, you can clearly see how it turns a little. However, like on M4 / M16, although on them this process is much smaller in amplitude. b) "Vermicelli" thin trunk. Again, in slow motion, you can see how he "dangles" and much more than that on the M4, FNC, and even more so on the M16 or AUG (0.75 inches barrel thickness). c) The impossibility of transferring to and from the fuse with the thumb without removing the hand from the handle. Although this has long been done both on Galil and on Tantalus. As far as I know, on that version of the AK-12 that went into production, you need to switch the fuse in the same way as on the AK-47 / AKM. The cartridge solves all the problems. Yes, 5.45 after 300m has more energy than 5.56 is absolutely true. But is this enough to defeat modern body armor? The US Armed Forces are hastily developing a 6.8 cartridge with ballistics very similar to the 30-06. That is, there is a REFUSAL from intermediate cartridges and a return to the concept of "Battle Rifle" A la SVT-40, G43, Garand, M14, FAL, and G3. What, in fact, many soldiers who served in Vietnam and said that the M14 breaks through obstacles, and the M16 does not. Now let's go back (sort of) To the same concept. Although I think that once again they sneeze at the opinion of the military and will accept what is best lobbied. For example, the US Armed Forces used in small numbers and 6.8 TWS and as far as I know 300 Blackout, and as far as I HEAR 6.5 Grendel and 6.5 Creedmore have tested. The 6.8 SOC received the best reviews from the special forces, but it was not accepted into service. You see, under CAPITALISM they take into service not only what is BETTER, but what is better, they have been PROMOTED and who has better CONNECTIONS. So we'll take a look.
    1. 0
      31 July 2021 23: 28
      Dmitry, tell us, how often did you have to use weapons at a distance of more than 300 meters? There are special specialists for this ... I will not remind what they are called. In close combat, 5,45 mm is enough. Fortunately, one more magazine (in the pouch). And in the "bra" they fit 8 pieces (240 rounds) plus the 9th on the barrel.
      1. +5
        1 August 2021 00: 06
        It happened in Iraq and Afghanistan and more than once. They came under fire from Aboriginal people armed with both Lee Enfields and Mauser and DP-27 and many other things. They opened fire from a distance of 400+ meters. Just by convoy. or on patrol. We simply could not get them. Moreover, even from 200-300m, we could not break through the walls or duval behind which they were hiding, but they could. And every patrol does not carry an M240 or M14 with them. Mauser K98 penetrates an adobe wall or masonry in one stone from a much greater distance, not only than the M4, but also the M16A3, which has a 20-inch barrel, and as a result, a higher muzzle velocity. Even Green Tip didn't always help. I will not remind you that our bulletproof vests often held not only 7.62x39 but also 7,62x54P. (not armor-piercing bullets, of course). Although a bruise of the ribs or, if hit in the stomach, internal organs is guaranteed, it is still better than a bullet hole.
        What's the point if you hit me a couple of times if there are no penetrations, and most likely, I can somehow continue the fight. Our police officers have received at point-blank range 9mm and even 45 neutralize criminals - bulletproof vests save, and these are not army, Interceptors with ESAPI plates, which are quite calmly classified as CLASS III +, and lighter ones are policemen (Class 2, Class 3A). But no standard body armor will hold the new 6.8mm. It is important not how many times you hit someone. WHERE did you get and whether you PUNCHED a bulletproof vest / helmet, etc., etc.
        1. +3
          1 August 2021 00: 17
          I found Afghan, Chechnya, happened ... I have concussions and wounds. From his own experience, he taught his subordinates to organize combat actions, so that to use the firepower of units in order to inflict maximum damage on the enemy ... Excessive weapon power is harmful, as well as its insufficiency, alas.
          1. +1
            1 August 2021 00: 20
            There is no such thing as too much firepower. There is no such thing as too much ammunition.
            1. +1
              1 August 2021 00: 23
              Which in a loose translation means that there is not a lot of vodka, but there are few women ...
        2. -1
          1 August 2021 00: 28
          With a specialist in "cleansing", if not right, correct ... My teacher - Lysyuk Sergei Ivanovich, the founder of the "Vityaz" detachment, 6th Detachment ODON them. Dzerzhinsky.
          1. +4
            1 August 2021 02: 06
            Where did you get the idea that I am a "cleansing specialist"? my MOS is 68W. Yes, I went on patrols, as did the rest. Yes, and escorted the convoys, not one, of course :-). ... But during the sweeps, I did not climb forward - this is NOT MY JOB. Although anything happened. Both the M240 and the M249 had to lie and grab the M16A2 and work as a DMR. I even carried with me not the M4, but the M16A2, they told me "you are a medic, so give the M4 to the one who needs it more. We and the M16A2 were, to a greater or lesser extent, worn, and the M4. I usually went with the M16A2, if honestly, I liked it better. And I had to carry the mines to the mortar, and put out the HAMVIs that were set on fire, although I, of course, am not a firefighter. I had to do a lot of things. But my main job was to pull out and stabilize the wounded. I NEVER, AND ANYWHERE. said that I was someone other than 68W. Then the army sent me and trained me on 68P. Never and ANYWHERE did I say that I was a “cleansing specialist.” Yes, I participated in them. then, of course, the medic goes with them, but almost never went in the forefront.
            1. +4
              1 August 2021 07: 04
              And I'm just a sapper ... In IRD I had "ahead of the rest." A sniper with an SVD was attached, I and my subordinates had an AKSU-74, that was enough for us ...
              1. +2
                1 August 2021 07: 31
                And when ours broke into the building, I, the machine gunner and another 1-2 chela sat outside, covered. This is where I used the M16A2. When someone ran out of the building, tried to escape, or when ours were attacked or started to fire from neighboring buildings ... Minesweeper ... Brrr. I collected our sappers a couple of times, after ... well, there were incidents. The problem with homemade mines is that their design is always slightly different. There is no template / stencil. This is when you find MON, POMZ or there TM, or something else, then the sappers know approximately what they are working with. And when some "homemade" puts something of his own. There may be surprises. As a rule, they survived, but lost limbs. or face ... or eyes ... Sometimes I still dream. One guy from Puerto Rico. His hands and legs saved him, but his face was sore along with his eyes. Freddy Krueger or Spawn nervously smoke on the sidelines ... I see him guaranteed a couple of times a month in a dream, and he asks me "maybe you could save me, if not my face, then at least my eyes" ... Dog's work, damn it. The most terrible wounds are from explosive devices. And those bastards fought just like that, of course, our guys, seeing that home-made and not only mines are doing with ours, let's say ... wildly bitter .. ... And I, damn it, is the only doctor, as a rule ... "Hamburger city , hug the cook ". LOOKED .... And yes, as the DMR covered, but a lot of things had to be done. But what is good in our army is that many skills are taught at the simplest level. As I joined the army, I immediately received the "Sharpshooter Badge". I still had the 2nd junior Biathlon in Kiev. I trained at the Chaika stadium.
        3. -1
          1 August 2021 11: 22
          It is important not how many times you hit someone. WHERE did you get and whether you PUNCHED a bulletproof vest / helmet, etc., etc.

          It is very important how many times you hit and it does not matter at all whether you pierced the plate, because it does not need to be pierced. A bullet hitting a carcass in ~ 90% of cases flies past the plate and quietly makes a hole in this carcass.
      2. 0
        1 August 2021 10: 34
        You can fit 6 magazines into a standard "bra" (belt "A"), but it was intended for three, since, according to the idea, it was supposed to replace the "pouch".
        1. 0
          1 August 2021 11: 51
          In Chechnya, we used Turkish bras. Freely fit 8 stores, two RGS and a station, I had KENWOOD.
          1. 0
            1 August 2021 13: 24
            Key phrase - "standard" bra "(belt" A ")".
    2. -3
      1 August 2021 11: 15
      But is this enough to defeat modern body armor?

      I assure you - AK74 does not care about the fact that the targets are wearing bulletproof vests, it will screw holes in them at the entire effective range. In order to be convinced of this, it is enough just to read the description of these very bulletproof vests.
  17. +1
    31 July 2021 23: 17
    In 1947, the Soviet forces overtook us with the AK-47, but we quickly overtook them with various modifications of the modern M16, and they have been following us ever since.
    [Quote] [/ quote]
    Roman, the article is really on the case! Only a little did not finalize with the text ... On whose behalf are you speaking?
  18. +7
    1 August 2021 01: 19
    The main thing in the design of any machine or mechanism is the correct concept and a reasonable compromise when it is embodied "in metal"! Yes
    If the designer-gunsmith does not have a clear idea of ​​what task, in what conditions and how the projected sample should solve, then he "navil" such, trying to stupidly "squeeze in all the best"! wassat

    Mikhail Timofeevich Kalashnikov, his front-line friends, fellow gunsmiths and colleagues in the NIPSMVO, profile specialists of the GAU knew well and presented the "task and functionality" of their firearms "brainchilds"!
    Therefore, the results of their common work were outstanding, world-class!
    And so it was all post-war Soviet times, and then the Soviet shooting school of construction "died for natural reasons" (for all known, and the "holy 90s", artificial reasons remained NOT transmitted "live" to the present "heirs"), alas! request

    But the American "Marine Machine Gunner, Shooting and Concealed Carrying Instructor" is still that "authoritative level" in comparing the designs of "Kalash" and "EMoids"! winked
    An American amateurishly (even for an "instructor level"!) Enumerates "tsatzki" and, superficially "comparing" through the prism of the "stereotypes of the American army" drilled into him, from this categorically "draws deep conclusions" ?! smile

    In my opinion, the "AK-12" is a frankly "palliative construction"! request
    That is why the Americans are openly triumphant seeing this unfinished "masterpiece of design thought" in service with the Russian army!

    Yes, "fashionably embedded", not too experienced and not very conscientious "technicians-designers" (probably absolutely NOT having experience in military operation of AK and obviously not even having an idea about it ?!)!
    All opportunistic "chips", of course, are and are attached "in the factory" - "Picatinny rails are everywhere", "dioptric" rear sight, quasi "floating" barrel (with a "non-floating" gas outlet pipe attached to it), "transparent window" and "support heel" of a plastic store, useless mechanism of "doublet mode", a collapsible 3-part cleaning rod (with fine threads that can be crookedly cut and easily "licked" - broken in the process of military "screwing-unscrewing" and "ramming" , not to mention the elementary loss of such a ramrod "in parts"), an easy-to-get-away canister-"oil can" in a "push-button" hollow (and therefore, obviously fragile) fire control handle (with quasi "universal grooves for fingers" like vulgar "Zonal" cutting-piercing "handicrafts for fraers who love shine"), a traumatic "bulge under the thumb" on the fuse-translator of "piu-piu modes" and other "design profanity" of almost all the fundamental ideas of the Concept of the famous Automaton- " forerunner "!

    To illustrate such a "profanity" it is enough to look at the "folding (but by no means" not to the end "?!) tubular telescopic stock (with a" falling "butt plate)" AK-12, blindly "dragged" from the "ARoids" in which this " pipe "is needed to accommodate the recoil spring and recoil buffer!
    Whereas in AK the return spring is "structurally inscribed" into the dimensions of the receiver and there is NO need for a Stoner "butt tube"!
    This allows you to create a sliding folding ("until it fully adheres" to the receiver!) Butt is lighter and less overall "in diameter", while maintaining the same rigidity and general "functionality".
    The American "machine gunner and wearing instructor", when he writes about the "telescopic stock for users of ALL sizes", for some reason "forgets" that this "telescope" AK-12 with its "axial dimensions" (like the AKM and AK- 74, the stock of which does NOT exceed!) DOES NOT envisage "users of large sizes (above average height and with long arms)"!

    As a long-term "user (in adolescence and youth)" and a highly experienced factory engineer (designer of machines and mechanisms, production technologist, who is quite good at almost all working professions in mechanical engineering) I see perfectly well (and understand the "underlying reason" approximately) the "design hack", and also - "private Wishlist" and "archaic difficulties" of the KK in their "quick-worn" product ", alas!
    I am perfectly aware that, criticizing KK, I run into another "ban", but for me, a Russian person, as well as for "Leskovsky Lefty" and "Belosolntsevsky Vereshchagin"; "It's a shame for the state!", For our common Russian Fatherland! I want his Defenders to always be armed with only the Best Weapons!
    Only the hope is weak that, with all these bourgeois "lobbies" in the "budget cuts", millions of full-fledged Soviet AKM and AK-74 have not yet been "squandered" in the warehouses of GRAU.
    1. +2
      1 August 2021 07: 47
      Dima, as long as there are "space journalists" and their descendants in the key departments, these departments are in charge, you have to rely only on yourself and on your skills and knowledge!
    2. Aag
      +1
      1 August 2021 19: 38
      A number of commentators have already expressed the idea that the AK-12 adopted for service is not at all the machine that was originally proposed!
      Sorry, I don't remember where (like, in some printed edition ...) I came across an article detailing the design of the proposed product, the results of its testing. This was followed by a description of the imposed "improvements" ... Both in terms of cutting back on technological processes, and "picking out" the highlights of design solutions.
      The author's conclusion was approximately the following: - not that coat! - it was not worth starting then ... hi
      1. +2
        1 August 2021 20: 50
        hi I remember those first photos of the AK-12 and the "presentation stories" of the KK managers from the beginning of the "tenths".
        That "project" was also "palliative (obviously for the sake of the well-established production of AK)", obviously "secondary", without an obvious general rearrangement of the design, only with some "cosmetic improvements".
        They (even being introduced without the "truncation" that happened later) would not have significantly raised the performance characteristics of the "improved sample", alas!
        The quality of design thinking and conscientious professionalism are decisive in the creation of truly advanced equipment!
    3. 0
      2 August 2021 00: 23
      [/ quote] millions of full-fledged Soviet AKM and AK-74 have not yet been "squandered" in the GRAU warehouses. [quote]
      ... I would like to hope so, but there was information that for the most part had already been written off and allowed to be melted down sad
  19. +3
    1 August 2021 11: 06
    Quote: -Dmitry-
    Come on :)

    Have you seen the Maxim machine gun? And what about belonging to it? Do you seriously think that it is simpler than the AN-94? Are the peasants of the early 20th century more technically educated than the townspeople of the late 20th century?
  20. +1
    1 August 2021 14: 53
    Quote: PiK
    Quote: Fedor M
    That's exactly what THEN quit. Again, those who wanted to "live" found a way of being. And did not drink shamelessly

    Not so simple...

    I remember a time when completely normal people were dying out in large numbers from burned vodka, the monopoly on the production of which the state completely surrendered to a criminal element.

    And often the vodka was so "vigorous" that it was enough to sip a generally symbolic dose of 50-150 grams to go to the forefathers ...

    And now nothing has changed. As the people measure from the fired vodka, they dying. and no one even stutters about the state monopoly on alcoholic beverages. They come up with new taxes, but here not gu-gu ...
    1. 0
      1 August 2021 17: 53
      as if under the state monopoly on alcohol and the struggle for healthy lifestyle people were not poisoned with all sorts of colognes and accordions. vopschem, the lending is fresh, but ... hi
    2. -1
      9 August 2021 11: 09
      As the people measure from the fired vodka, they dying. and no one even stutters about the state monopoly on alcoholic beverages

      How the introduction of the state monopoly on the production of strong alcohol (by the way - and what kind of strong alcohol? After all, it is not limited to vodka, at least) will affect the production of counterfeit ("burned") vodka or even alcohol-containing liquids that are not formally intended for consumption inside (intended exclusively for external (rubbing the skin with them) medical use like the notorious "hawthorn tincture" or cosmetic, like the same "triple cologne" means).
  21. 0
    1 August 2021 20: 52
    It looks like the American appreciated our new rifle.
  22. +1
    2 August 2021 01: 01
    It is an efficient closed air-cooled system that is not modern, but it is still quite efficient.
    -
    on the planet, physics has remained the same, all the same as under the USSR, no Western values ​​can change it.
    1. 0
      2 August 2021 09: 20
      Quote: pishchak
      Yes, "fashionably embedded", not too experienced and not very conscientious "technicians-designers" (probably absolutely NOT having experience in military operation of AK and obviously not even having an idea about it ?!)!

      This is a very common phenomenon when people, having no operating experience, invent something there, and then do it, this is because the designer dominates the engineer and the technologist.
      1. 0
        2 August 2021 21: 18
        Quote: agond
        that the designer dominates the engineer and the technologist.

        hi like it's bad ...
        One example with Jobs (a designer) and an iPhone with a touch-screen display, or rather with touch-design buttons in it, what is it worth, so the touch screen was invented long before the iPhone, but it was Jobs who gave the pendulum to engineers and technologists, and got a normal GUI under the touch (for example, I still remember WinCE), and he repeated similar pendulums more than once before, with his other projects. hi
  23. AML
    0
    2 August 2021 16: 28
    Quote: Andrey VOV
    Did you take part in real hostilities?

    You just may not understand each other, since the tasks are different.

    For example, a police special forces are always huddled together, since the location of the enemy is almost always known. Army special forces are always dispersed so that one charge does not kill everyone. Sobsno also the police special forces usually shoot short, for buildings and little people. Army long, because only the enemy can fly in and it is located somewhere in that direction
    1. 0
      2 August 2021 21: 00
      Quote: AML
      You just may not understand each other, since the tasks are different.

      I agree on this, they often say the same thing from different points of view and / or in different words

      Quote: AML
      ... police special forces usually shoot short, for buildings and little people. Army long, because only the enemy can fly in and it is located somewhere in that direction

      Nirazu is not true, the same police and / or military-police special forces often work according to a barrage scheme, preventing the enemy from leaning out or moving from place to place, or even for distraction. In principle, it is easily googled, for example, when searching for a video of the work of the armored personnel carrier \ BA \ MRAP \ and all sorts of "fake-punisher" there. In general, there are "short-long" links to the LDP but not to the department, with "crowded-scattered" similar garbage.
    2. 0
      9 August 2021 11: 42
      Sobsno also the police special forces usually shoot short, for buildings and little people. Army long, because only the enemy can fly in and it is located somewhere in that direction

      Long is it to waste the ammunition as quickly as possible? Which to restore behind enemy lines .. a non-trivial task?
      The difference between the police-anti-terrorist and army special forces is, in addition to the subordination of the unit, primarily in the tasks they perform.
  24. +1
    2 August 2021 17: 54
    Auto-translation is just disgusting. Posting an article from a foreign resource is not just stupid to translate it with a google translator.
  25. AML
    -1
    2 August 2021 21: 42
    Quote: ProkletyiPirat
    In principle, it is easily googled, for example, when searching for a video of the work of the armored personnel carrier \ BA \ MRAP \ and all sorts of "fake-punisher" there.

    Yeah, under the cover of tanks and aircraft. What country are we talking about now? We got on the train with a machine gun.
  26. +1
    4 August 2021 17: 01
    The factory upgrade of the AK-74 became the AK-12 ..... The question is, do they buy a body kit through Alibaba? And they are pushing the sun as a product of their own creativity ... Now they will destroy the HAMMER, and the people will not be allowed to buy shotguns too ..
  27. +2
    4 August 2021 20: 58
    At least kill ... I don't understand how you can hold the barrel like that when firing ..
  28. The comment was deleted.
  29. 0
    11 August 2021 09: 41
    Quote: Terran Ghost
    As the people measure from the fired vodka, they dying. and no one even stutters about the state monopoly on alcoholic beverages

    How the introduction of the state monopoly on the production of strong alcohol (by the way - and what kind of strong alcohol? After all, it is not limited to vodka, at least) will affect the production of counterfeit ("burned") vodka or even alcohol-containing liquids that are not formally intended for consumption inside (intended exclusively for external (rubbing the skin with them) medical use like the notorious "hawthorn tincture" or cosmetic, like the same "triple cologne" means).

    State quality control. and to exclude poisoning, return the production of vodkas from rye. And only from it. And for samopal: fines and landings with confiscation. Are you aware that even churchmen sell vodka and have sales benefits?
  30. +1
    11 September 2021 17: 41
    I read the comments ... Most of the couch warriors, who not only did not hold a weapon in their hands, but also saw it only in pictures. Connoisseurs, in a word. Especially in the design of small arms ...
  31. -1
    12 September 2021 15: 53
    It seems that I read the commercial from the "Concern" Kalashnikov "
  32. 0
    13 September 2021 18: 56
    Well, I'm in a common bunch -)). But in fact, it's sad, "our" designers fell under the Americans completely. AK-74 had an aiming range of 1000m, AK-12 - 800m because the sight was diopter - th ..... the errors are such that you don't have to try to shoot. Tales about a hanging trunk - stupid shit. Putting the barrel on a cracker from a bayonet-knife, you can easily take the target at 500m, but from your hands - it is much more difficult to do it. This is practice. At dusk or in dark rainy weather, it is impossible to look for the hole itself from a diopter -)) a terrible inconvenience. With an open sight, moving a point against a light background, this is done 10 times faster and easier. Tales about optics - but if the targets were so easy to see, they would have been killed simply by the number of shots without any optics, since there was no particular shortage of bp in recent wars. Well, and much more you can add.
  33. DMi
    0
    20 October 2021 23: 24
    Translation - it couldn't be worse.
  34. 0
    26 October 2021 20: 51
    I have a 74th folding bed, the stock is short, it does not affect accuracy, I don't need deuces, as for me, you count every shot in battle, or the tracer is a stop when the magazine is empty.
    And these new Pts. I would like to try, touch.

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