"It's bad with bread - give 3 million tons of oil above the plan": how oil from Western Siberia buried the Soviet Union

Source: russian7.ru

Refusal from the "petrochemical project"

At the turn of the 50s and 60s, the Soviet leadership faced the dilemma of using oil and gas rent. The first option for spending petrodollars provided for the creation of a powerful refining petrochemical complex aimed at the production of products of deep processing of hydrocarbons. In simple words, such a "petrochemical project" would create a lot of new jobs and would finally solve the problem of the eternal shortage of consumer goods.

As you know, up to 100% of the material benefits of a civilization can be produced from oil and gas. An important, if not decisive, bonus of such a project was the ability to export products with high added value. This export item did not depend on fluctuations in world prices for hydrocarbons and could become a stable source of foreign exchange earnings in the USSR. The petrochemical complex would pull up the specialized science and related industries - for example, mechanical engineering and light industry. One of the striking examples of success is Germany with a very developed chemical industry. Everyone in the country enjoys the benefits of this industry - from food to heavy industry. And this is despite the almost complete absence of natural sources of hydrocarbons. The Soviet Union in this situation with huge natural resources was in a much more privileged position. Unfortunately, in the future this caused the opposite effect of economic stagnation.

Source: russian7.ru

NS Khrushchev was one of the supporters of the "petrochemical project". But the secretary general and everyone else understood perfectly well that the technological level of the Soviet Union did not allow independently implementing such a large-scale project. Even with the extraction of hydrocarbons, there were difficulties, not to mention industrial chemical synthesis. Chairman of the USSR Oil Industry Committee N.K.Baibakov in the early 60s noted that

“The technical level of drilling works does not meet modern requirements, especially deep drilling, which slows down the pace of well construction and increases their cost ... Over the past 5 years, the drilling rate has been lower than the target figures by 60%, and the actual cost of drilling is almost 33% higher. "

Source: e-rudit.ru

The first steps in the implementation of the "petrochemical project" were expected - a massive purchase of chemical plants abroad. Under Khrushchev, they acquired turnkey enterprises in France, Italy, Germany and Japan. The payment came from income from the export of hydrocarbons, that is, through the Ministry of Oil Refining and Petrochemical Industry. However, the Ministry itself required considerable funds to further increase oil and gas production. The natural conditions of the still unexplored West Siberian oil and gas province were very difficult; work in most areas could only be carried out in winter. As a result, under pressure from a serious ministerial lobby, it was decided to abandon the "petrochemical project". Among the reasons there were many objective ones. First of all, it was expensive and time-consuming, and the government needed money as soon as possible. The ever-growing military-industrial complex and energy inefficient economy required enormous resources. The rejection of chemical modernization was also influenced by Western sanctions, which seriously complicated the purchase of foreign equipment. And, finally, the overthrow of NS Khrushchev put the final end to the most progressive version of the use of oil rent.

Burning banknotes

The "oil and gas maneuver" became the main concept of using the USSR's hydrocarbon rent for many decades, right up to the very collapse of the empire. Its essence is the use of oil and gas as an energy source within the country, as well as the active export of surpluses abroad. Export revenues were planned to be used to cover all costs. One of the most important items of expenditure was the modernization of the oil production complex for a further increase in production volumes. Such "burning of banknotes", as DI Mendeleev aptly put it, built a very wasteful economy in the USSR. The example of the 70s is typical, when world oil prices soared - in the West this period is called the “fuel crisis”. Oil-consuming countries have launched large-scale programs for the transition of industry and transport to energy conservation. But not in the Soviet Union. Logic dictated that in a period of high energy prices, it was high time to increase exports, and diversify domestic consumption and make it more economical. The surplus petrodollars received would be a great help for this. The leadership of the USSR decided that first of all it was necessary to feed its own production with cheap oil, and only then sell the surplus to the West. As Sergey Ermolaev, Ph.D. in Economics, Associate Professor of the Russian University of Economics, writes in his works,

“The abundance of cheap energy resources already in the 70s led to a noticeable weakening of energy-saving trends ... The energy component of the cost of the overwhelming majority of products fell to 5-7%, which significantly reduced the incentives to save energy ... . "

Source: news.myseldon.com

As mentioned above, even for the "oil and gas maneuver" the country did not have all the opportunities. For example, for the Druzhba oil pipeline, large-diameter pipes had to be purchased abroad. Since 1958, they tried in vain to organize the production of pipes with a diameter of 1020 mm at the Babushkin Dnepropetrovsk Plant, the Ilyich Zhdanov Plant and the Chelyabinsk Pipe Rolling Plant. The re-equipment of the plant's facilities to meet the new requirements for pipes was not crowned with success. By 1963, the share of quality products was so low that the pipeline was almost completely assembled from imported components. As a result, even the "oil and gas maneuver", which initially seemed less expensive, turned out to be an expensive pleasure for the Soviet Union. He made the country not only dependent on foreign buyers, but also on volatile oil and gas prices. Somehow the situation could have been mitigated by the sovereign stabilization fund, but this came only in the days of Russia. The Soviet government spent oil revenues almost immediately and in full. In fairness, it should be noted that the USSR was much less dependent on hydrocarbon production than modern Russia. As the aforementioned Sergei Ermolaev writes, in 1989 oil and gas production reached 2,12 t / person, and in 2016 3,72 t / person. However, such a specific indicator should be taken into account, taking into account the 286 million population of the Soviet Union at the end of the 80s.

In pursuit of increasing production volumes, petrochemicals were gradually forgotten. In comparison with Western countries, the USSR spent less and less on deep processing of hydrocarbons and bought more and more abroad. For example, in 1965, 120 million rubles were allocated for the industry, while the United States spent 500 million dollars, and Japan - 307 million. Even the indicators planned by the State Planning Committee were underestimated. For 1966-1970, almost 750 million rubles were reserved for petrochemicals, but soon they were reduced to 621 million. Russia is still experiencing the consequences of such inattention with the chemical industry.

Oil needle

The original formula for the development of the resources of Western Siberia "domestic technologies and resources + imported capital" by the 70s under Brezhnev was transformed into "domestic resources + imported technologies and capital". It's a shame to say that the country that launched the first satellite and the first astronaut into space bought an automobile plant in Italy. And by all available means was forced to knock out machines for the machine-building giant KamAZ from American industrialists. Naturally, Western "partners" sold far from the most progressive technologies to the USSR. In this situation, the country's leadership has chosen an obscure strategy “what we don’t have, we will buy it for petrodollars”. As a result, entire branches of the domestic industry were not ready to compete with imported counterparts. So the Soviet automotive industry and the chemical industry went into stagnation. To clarify, the Soviet Union did not massively import cars, as is the case in modern Russia, but actively purchased technology from Europe. For example, the VAZ rear-wheel drive platforms are from Italy, and the front-wheel drive platforms were developed with the direct participation of German engineers. Archaic "Muscovites", leading history from the trophy "Opel", as a result, could not withstand the competition with products from Togliatti.

Source: news.myseldon.com

Thunder struck in the 80s, when the price of oil plummeted. And here again the paradox. The Soviet Union must, in accordance with all laws, reduce the volume of exports of cheaper hydrocarbons, but, on the contrary, it is increasing. Simply because there is nothing more to sell to the country - there is no competitive civilian industry. Agriculture is in complete ruin. In 1984, the Chairman of the Council of Ministers of the USSR N.A.Tikhonov assessed the situation:

“Mainly the oil that we sell to capitalist countries is used to pay for food and some other goods. In this regard, it is advisable, when developing a new five-year plan, to provide for a reserve for a possible additional supply of oil in the amount of 5-6 million tons over the five-year period. "

What is the supply of imported grain to the country's food market? This is a further destruction of domestic agriculture. And this did not happen in the 80s. A decade earlier, A.N. Kosygin uttered an epochal, addressing the head of Glavtyumenneftegaz:

"The bread is bad - give 3 million tons of oil above the plan."

An emergency increase in production volumes required a transition to a new technological level, and the country again bought what was missing abroad. So, from 1970 to 1983, the import of oil and gas equipment increased 80 times in value and 38 times in volume. At the same time, oil flowed like a wide river to "friendly" countries in exchange for momentary loyalty. Every year, up to 20 billion petrodollars were irretrievably spent in the black hole.

Now, from 2021, it is very easy to criticize the Soviet leadership, which drove the country into an oil dependence. After all, the Dutch disease itself was only discovered in the early 60s, not to mention the fundamental principles of oil market regulation. Brezhnev and his entourage simply did not have experience with such a complex resource as hydrocarbons. And there was no one to prompt. Oil and gas made it possible to buy food, furniture, fertilizers, footwear from abroad and hire foreign workers for complex construction? If so, then why bother and modernize your own industry, make it more energy efficient? The huge reserves of hydrocarbons in the Tyumen region have become the main reason for the emergence of such a flawed state mentality.

By about 1987, in the country's ruling circles, everyone clearly understood that they could not last long with cheap oil. The USSR was no longer ready for evolutionary changes, and the prospect of revolutionary perestroika loomed ahead. At that time the expression became fashionable in the State Planning Committee:

"If it weren't for Samotlor's oil, life would have forced the restructuring of the economy 10-15 years ago."

It's hard to say more precisely.

Comments

[Essex62]

Lies for lies. Another denigration of socialism, a planned economy. It turns out that the hired foreigners launched Gagarin into space, and the USSR lived only with rent from the sale.

[globe]

The article says that Gagarin was launched. And they couldn't grow wheat.

[a52333]

I am in Zen on another page (https://zen.yandex.ru/media/id/5fc16bed69582e764e85d08d/o-selskom-hoziaistve-i-prodovolstvii-v-sovetskie-vremena-60e0736ef59c1e799797c871#comment_involved with the USSR.
I myself am a supporter of socialism, but you shouldn't go to extremes either.
In the USSR, it was bad with the agricultural woman.

[mmaxx]

Not that word.

[Essex62]

And I haven't noticed any interruptions and price changes in the bread for decades.
Besides, is he practicing such stuffing in packs of pluses on the obvious anti-Sovietism? Something was not noticed on the forum, the dominance of such "gentlemen"?

[tasha]

Alexander, it's not about the gentlemen. Everything is like the Strugatskys: "However, two or three managed to stay at court and painted portraits of the king with Don Reba, respectfully supporting him by the elbow (variety was not encouraged: the king was portrayed as a twenty-year-old handsome man in armor, and Don Raba was portrayed as a mature man with a significant face ). "
If you did not notice, it does not mean that these problems did not exist.
Think about it - why any attempt not to muddle up, not to lie - but simply to criticize the times of the USSR - immediately gets the label of "anti-Sovietism"? My position is that we must understand what went wrong, what problems were and why what happened, what happened.

[your1970]

Quote: Essex62

And I haven't noticed any interruptions and price changes in the bread for decades.

Anything has happened
"PRESIDIUM OF THE SUPREME COUNCIL OF THE RSFSR
DECREE
from 6 May 1963 years
"On strengthening responsibility for feeding livestock and poultry bread and other bakery products purchased in state and cooperative stores"
Recently, numerous cases have been established when speculative elements - livestock owners who are not engaged in socially useful labor - use cheap state bread and other bread products to feed livestock for the purpose of personal enrichment.
Some workers and employees - city dwellers, collective farmers, workers and employees of state farms, instead of taking care of the preparation of feed for their livestock in permitted ways, feed the cattle and poultry bread, flour and cereals, bought up in state and cooperative stores.
.........
2. To establish that the purchase in state or cooperative stores of baked bread, flour, cereals and other bread products for feeding livestock and poultry, as well as feeding to livestock and poultry bought in stores of baked bread, flour, cereals and other baked goods, committed after imposing for these actions of a fine administratively, or systematically, or on a large scale - are punished correctional labor for a term of up to one year or imprisonment for a term of one to three years with or without confiscation of livestock."

I will fully support:

Quote: tasha

If you did not notice, it does not mean that these problems did not exist.
Think about it - why any attempt not to muddle up, not to lie - but simply to criticize the times of the USSR - immediately gets the label of "anti-Sovietism"? My position is that we must understand what went wrong, what problems were and why what happened, what happened.

[Essex62]

Interruptions as a result of feeding livestock on a personal, read private, farmstead. From the standpoint of the dictatorship of the proletariat, this is an open contradiction. Profit, because basically this meat was sold at speculative prices. It was necessary to suppress this harshly, and not to mumble about fines. It was the same in trade. The hucksters are making money, and they are reprimanded.
The upper foundations themselves undermined. In other matters, Nikita immediately set his sights on restoration, but there were more real communists then than in the 80s. They managed to slam.
I welcome constructive criticism wholeheartedly. And I don’t hang up labels. But there can be no semitones here. No wonder they called it "two worlds - two systems". The other side perceived this formulation in the same way. Maybe in other words.
Yes, and what now to understand. Several tank barrels changed the world from plus to minus. The factor of chance, as always in history.

[Pilat2009]

Quote: Essex62

And I haven't noticed any interruptions and price changes in the bread for decades.
Besides, is he practicing such stuffing in packs of pluses on the obvious anti-Sovietism? Something was not noticed on the forum, the dominance of such "gentlemen"?

They didn’t notice because the grain was bought abroad. If they didn’t buy it, they would immediately notice

[Essex62]

I watched with my own eyes how endless fields are earing and harvesting. Well, what can you do, that on the American continent two harvests a year are harvested, while our winter is a longer time of the year.
Since there was plenty of bread at low prices, it means that the Soviet government did everything right.
Here's the armor to rivet without measure and the main thing is meaning, this is an inflection. The deficit of consumer goods, due to the imbalance in the military-industrial complex, the Union shook, which the traitors took advantage of, adding negative sabotage.
The reason for any coup is short-term, but very strong discontent of the masses, no matter what continent, country or era you take.

[Wadim]

Endless fields are still earing and clearing, mouths only diminished with the decline of the fraternal republics. So it turns out that now Russia has the opportunity to sell grain, and not buy it for petrodollars as with the great and mighty.

[KERMET]

It remains to compare which varieties of wheat were purchased then and are sold and grown now

[zenion]

Essex62. Many have forgotten and have forgotten that the huge areas on which there was wheat were transferred to corn and the king of peas. But before that, everything was enough for the cattle, but the human mind was not enough. As soon as Khrushch went abroad and saw something new, he immediately wanted it to be in the USSR, regardless of the difference between the existence of the USSR and other countries on the ground. Stalin said that it was necessary to take care of the lands that were. And Khrushchev hit the virgin soil and millions of sheep and other livestock were left without feed. My neighbor, a former major during the war and as a communist, tore off his family and, despite his injuries, went to explore the virgin lands. Three years later he came and said the first harvest was huge. Everything burned down in the piles and under the covers. The main thing was to report - the harvest was taken and huge. What to do with the collected no one squeaked and did not feed the cattle. This is how the smoke appeared, and then it began to burn. This is how the USSR burned down. The rest was burned by the Marked Devil. His promise - power will be as it is now, only much better. Everyone immediately believed, put on jeans and plugged their mouth with rubber. Everyone has now caught up with America! It remains to catch up with capitalism and socialism, but so far not everyone is bad in feudalism. Some live under feudalism with a slavish bias, while others, a pot-bellied trifle, live under communism and they do not complain.

[Essex62]

What kind of communism, where, who lives under it? This is the highest form of social relations, not attainable in the psychology of modern man and his motivations. Feudalism in our country has been modernized to the point of impossible. In fact, a new form of government was invented. Pieces were torn out from different systems. One word is staples.

[KERMET]

From my window outside the city in the 80s, all the fields were sown with wheat, now there are only windmills. About the fact that they could not grow nonsense - a lot of information that now wheat is mainly fodder varieties

[Siberian54]

Today's "abundance of bread" is based on a speculatively high price (22-28 kopecks per kilogram in the USSR and 24 rubles per pound .. slightly exaggerated, the pound is 480 g and bread 420 g) Therefore, they did not learn to grow wheat, but the prices were able to lift , without the Novocherkassk events, or maybe they just hid them ..

[Pessimist22]

Well, German engineers helped in the development of rocket technologies, if everything was good, then tell me why it became bad and fell apart?

[aybolyt678]

Quote: Pessimist22

If everything was good, then tell me why it became bad and fell apart?

the chemical industry was poorly developed, more precisely, polymer chemistry, and this is additional technological capabilities in a wide variety of areas ...

[mmaxx]

Germans-Germans ... Not tired of it? W. von Braun himself worked for the Americans. Here and poke them.

[zenion]

Not only himself, but also five thousand specialists in rocketry. The USSR got the remnants. After all, the Germans mainly fled the SS to surrender to the United States, not the USSR.

[zenion]

But German engineers are not all the time. When they taught their own, the Germans were sent to Nemetchina. But the Americans are not ashamed of what the German engineers did and taught them, but they boast that they saved them from the rope. There were no German engineers and the United States in space were blown away. Russia does not have its own engineers and Russia in Space has burst.

[Civil]

Quote: Essex62

Lies for lies. Another denigration of socialism, a planned economy. It turns out that the hired foreigners launched Gagarin into space, and the USSR lived only with rent from the sale.

Contract article before the elections. There is nothing of our own, but the USSR is to blame for this. But in fact, they cannot finish what the Soviet government has built. As for wheat, as a normally developed country, the USSR imported it for processing and sale within the country, and not as backward RI and the Russian Federation export it without processing.

[aybolyt678]

Quote: Civil

Contract article before the elections. There is nothing of our own, but the USSR is to blame for this.

I would refute your statement. In my opinion, a direct analogy - then pipes and now pipes, and everything is passed off as "Victory". Direct government policy with media support. In my opinion it is worth thinking ...

[Olgovich]

Quote: Civil

as a normally developed country, the USSR.

in a "developed" country THIRD of your harvest left annually IN THE SNOW and at the BIGGEST TILL in the world, the import of bread for 30 years of continuous success in the "developed" country grew 36 times! AND MILLIONS of their farmland ARE ABANDONED, and more than HALF of settlements in Russia (160 thousand) by 1989 DESTROYED "successful people" (what kind of war took place?), as well as more than forty thousand schools, tens of thousands of clubs, as well as communication lines, roads and pr-vast territories were depopulated and overgrown ...

Also imported meat, butter, etc.

And in the fields and in the deadly stinking vegetable bases, they stuck up millions of op engineers, candidates of science, and other specialists digging and sorting out products, because the peasants fled from its "developed agricultural" paradise "

[mmaxx]

Everything is correct. And in the beloved bakery, the export was huge, with constant hunger in the village.

[tasha]

Everything is correct. And in the beloved bakery, the export was huge, with constant hunger in the village.

Not an argument. If you want to object - compare with the situation in other regions, countries, under other regimes, but at least in the same historical period. Only in this case your comment will make at least some sense.

[Olgovich]

Quote: mmaxx

And in the beloved bakery, the export was huge, with constant hunger in the village.

constant hunger is 1918-1954, while the years with deaths from hunger: 1918,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,28,30,31,32,33,34,36,37,46,47, 1921, while with million deaths and cannibalism / corpse-eating years 23-1932,33,1946,47, XNUMX years. (this was not the case neither in Russia nor in the world)

[ycuce234-san]

And in the fields and in the deadly stinking vegetable bases, millions of engineers, candidates of sciences, and other specialists stuck up, digging and sorting out products, for the peasants fled from its "developed agricultural" paradise.

It was necessary to work with these technical and scientific personnel and to work correctly - if you made an invention, discovery or patent or rationalization proposal, yes, such that its serial implementation in domestic or foreign agriculture was cut off with hands and feet, then everything is not for potatoes this season you go and enjoy a well-deserved extra vacation. No? - welcome to the cool bowels of the vegetable store ... and so every year.

[smart75]

Are you seriously? They tell you about the pointlessness of hammering nails with a microscope on a national scale, and do you propose to additionally verify the microscopes before hammering them? Zampolit, definitely!

[ycuce234-san]

On the contrary, talented engineers solve the food problem not by manual labor, but by applying the efforts of the intellect to mechanization, chemicalization, and within the framework of qualifications. Others are engaged in "vegetable fitness".

[smart75]

And only in the USSR there was such a concept - a graveyard of tractors. Collective farm near Vereshchagino (Perm region) 1985. Dozens of cars. It's easier for us to send a tractor there than to get spare parts for it, the chairman said

[Essex62]

Yes, there was already a Union in 85. The old politburoshne was not even able to understand that the country was corrupted and wasted. For such things, the chairman would have been asked, under the early Leonid Ilyich, in full, not to mention the Stalinist USSR.
And the Ministry of Taxes and Levies and the professors, in the vegetable storehouses, is utter game.

[zenion]

Soviet power has nothing to do with it. Lenin is to blame for everything. He did not sleep at night on the trolley, traveled around the USSR and placed mines everywhere. That's where I caught a cold on the trolley. And although he asked everyone not to pull the strings, Yeltsin could not stand it. Tired of being the servants of the people for the party members and turned and turned this business along with the plunder of the people. When he served in the army, he took the oath to the people and these too. So consider the people that the country is commanded by spies and saboteurs who have violated the oath to the people.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Essex62

It turns out that the hired foreigners launched Gagarin into space, and the USSR lived only with rent from the sale.

And they were the first to experience thermonuclear fusion, and even without bread they began to live, through the fault of the "maize" Khrushchev, and before him, even during the Second World War, with their bread.

[Blackmokona]

The Americans who supplied food on Lend Lease were very surprised by this statement.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: BlackMokona

The Americans who supplied food on Lend Lease were very surprised by this statement.

The Americans were not surprised at anything, they needed the Red Army to kill the Germans, not the Americans. Therefore, they supplied what they asked for.

[mmaxx]

The famine in that war is not surprising. Taking into account the loss of territory and people. In real war countries, food is somehow not very good.

[Spring fluff]

I don't think Americans were surprised. not so long ago, before the war, they saved the USSR from starvation. ARA (American Relief Administration).
In addition to food aid, the ARA also provided assistance in establishing medicine, vaccinations and combating the outbreak of epidemics.
ARA offices were opened in a total of 38 provinces of the RSFSR. According to the estimates of the People's Commissariat for Foreign Trade, the ARA imported 36,3 million poods (about 595 thousand tons) of food, medicine and clothing worth 136 million rubles in gold. International trade. 1922. № 11 .. More than 15 thousand canteens were opened to feed the hungry. In July 1922, 8,8 million people received food in the ARA canteens and a ration of corn, and in August 10,3 million.
At the peak of its activity, the ARA employed 300 American citizens and more than 120 thousand Soviet citizens.

[zenion]

And then the USSR helped the United States, when they had hunger and tens of thousands of engineers and hundreds of thousands of workers worked in the USSR, and they and their families survived. At the same time, having learned the system of socialism, having summoned their families, the Americans remained in the USSR. But it is not customary to talk about this in the USSR because of modesty, and in the USA because of full pants. They started the war too. And let them kill each other, as much as possible.

[Siberian54]

24 years old actually, yes, recently before 41 ... year

[Edward Vashchenko]

At the turn of the 50s and 60s, the Soviet leadership faced the dilemma of using oil and gas rent.

Rent, what words, and where does it come from?

[evgen1221]

But in fact there is something to say. The economy of the Union in many sectors was an ineffective sitting of pants with getting nishtyaks plus labor for the sake of labor without any benefit to the country. Only organizations in the military-industrial complex and civilian society kept afloat who had to really compete with Western firms in their field. The rest were just running the plan for the cast iron irons.

[seregatara1969]

But too fast pumping of oil ruined the field. Still haunted

[Nazar]

Essex62 - The "crystal bakers" instructed you about the disadvantages, but the figures - 1985 with the production of about 570 million tons, 193 million tons were exported. that is, 34% of the production. In 2019, with the production of about 512 million tons, 266 million tons were exported, that is, 52% of production. Everyone understands who is "on the needle" of the USSR or the current eRefiya - eh? So I want to shit the USSR. that they no longer know what to think of, but none of these aftorians wants to write about the current economy of the "pipe", or about today downstairs, the elections are coming soon?

[Comrade]

The author, you have loud statements, but there is no evidence, some unsubstantiated statements and abstract figures.
But everything is learned in comparison, so let's compare a couple of numbers.

What is the supply of imported grain to the country's food market? This is a further destruction of domestic agriculture.

Yah ?
В 1986 in the Soviet Union was collected (86) 573 008 tons of wheat, imported 15 tons, ie 745% of production.
В 1990 year in the Soviet Union was collected (101) 888 496 tons of wheat, imported 15 tons, ie 024% of own production.

By the way, Germany, for example, in 2014 harvested 27 tons of wheat, and imported 700 million tons, ie 000% of its own production. According to your logic, this country, following the USSR, embarked on the path of liquidating its agriculture?

In general, the impression is that you did not live in the Union, or, at best, you found "perestroika" in a kindergarten or elementary school.

[Mar.Tirah]

Quote: Comrade

In general, the impression is that you did not live in the Union, or, at best, you found "perestroika" in a kindergarten or elementary school.

He did not know the main tasks of Gorbachev's "perestroika" - to destroy the USSR. We had no problems with wheat. It was just that there were not enough varieties of the highest quality. In the Soviet Union, bread was made from wheat not lower than the 3rd category, for violating GOST it was possible to go to prison get there: And now in Russia all the standards are below the plinth and Russia has just reached the Soviet level of grain production, at which not very good quality cereals go to the consumer's table and the cream goes over the hill. ruslovo / pochemu-sssr-pokupal-zerno-a-rossiia-ego-prodaet-na-tebe-boje-chto-nam-ne-goje-5d833eb84735a600aeafd76f

[Captain45]

Quote: Mar. Tira

In the Soviet Union, bread was made from wheat of at least the 3rd category, for violating GOST it was possible to go to prison

Not for bread, but for "going to prison for violating GOST", that is why Sharaf Rashidovich with his gang of Basmachi drove "one hundred percent" cotton to Ivanovo factories, probably out of fear of prison. And then they wondered where the calico pillowcases and satin panties went to the USSR.

[viva_cuba]

but definitely out of fear. Because to deny "dear Leonid Ilyich" a request to collect an unimaginable 6 million tons was career suicide. By the way, Andropov also knew that there were no 6 million tons. But he was silent in a rag. That was the system

[Krasnodar]

Quote: Mar. Tira

He did not know the main tasks of Gorbachev's "perestroika" - to destroy the USSR. We had no problems with wheat. It was just that there were not enough varieties of the highest quality. In the Soviet Union, bread was made from wheat not lower than the 3rd category, for violating GOST it was possible to go to prison get there: And now in Russia all the standards are below the plinth and Russia has just reached the Soviet level of grain production, at which not very good quality cereals go to the consumer's table and the cream goes over the hill. ruslovo / pochemu-sssr-pokupal-zerno-a-rossiia-ego-prodaet-na-tebe-boje-chto-nam-ne-goje-5d833eb84735a600aeafd76f

So the grain of the highest grades is harvested no more than 4-5% annually. It goes for high-grade pasta - 3rd (the bulk of the crop) - for bakery products, 5th fodder

[Olgovich]

Quote: Comrade

In 1990, the Soviet Union harvested 101 tons of wheat, imported 888 tons, that is, 496% of its own production.

And in 1991, 71991008 tons were collected, 18500000 tons were imported, which amounted to 25,7% own production. And in 1988 -26% .

We have: from 1% of imports in 1961, growth up to 26% in 1991

"Efficient" management and economy, yes ...

[Essex62]

Here again you are talking about nothing.
88-91 years is no longer the USSR. There already yours brought down socialism from the heart, destroying the resistance of the administrative resource. It is not surprising if a tsrushnik was sitting on the Kremlin stool. As many levers as you want. And no one listened to us from the bottom. They have already set their sights on restoration and surrender to the enemy.
In the USSR, there was always an abundance of bread at the lowest price in the world. After the Second World War, the difficulties were overcome and everything worked out. Partially imported, so what?

[Olgovich]

Quote: Essex62

Here again you are talking about nothing.
88-91 years is no longer the USSR.

here's the 1985-PIK development:
grown 73200000 tons, imported 21419488 tons, which amounted to 30% from grown, even worse.

Quote: Essex62

In the USSR, there was always an abundance of bread at the lowest price in the world. After the Second World War, the difficulties were overcome and everything worked out. Partially imported, so what?

imported FOR CURRENCY what they OBLIGED and could grow themselves, but were unable

[Essex62]

Everything was done as it should. And grown and smelted and built. I remember very well. And he himself saw something and heard from the elders.
The country after the terrible devastation of the Second World War was restored quickly enough, and the famine was defeated. And the threat of a new war, constantly hanging over the country, forced huge sums of money to be spent on its parry. With all secretaries general, the priority direction. What kind of Lada is there in abundance?
And there were enough mistakes. One reincarnated Nikita messed up the woods. Some people still haunt (Bandera). But the system, imprisoned for a person, is correct and fair

[Olgovich]

Quote: Essex62

Everything was done as it should.

apparently, that is why the IMPORT of grain has grown 36 times in just 30 years.

This is a great "achievement", yes ...

[your1970]

Quote: Essex62

And grown and smelted and built.

- they smelted so much that for 20 years metalworkers have been collecting iron thrown in the 70s in the fields - but it does not end ...
How many resources and labor were spent on that iron is beyond the reach of the mind ...
If only they were a little more prudent, I think it would be possible to halve the production of steel and cast iron easily
No, "Everything around is popular, everything around is nobody's" ©

[Essex62]

And when the master's, read the bourgeois of course better? Only the bourgeois squeezes out the margin, there is no place for a man.
And what should have been more prudent, it is true. The problem is not in the system, but in psychology, and it was necessary to work on this, not formally. Search for methods. It is not enough to simply say that "the economy must be thrifty." We need to figure out how to do it.

[your1970]

Quote: Essex62

And when the master's, read the bourgeois of course better?

and better - when on Easter every year we were drunk and stoked a tractor (or even more than one) in the villages ???
"The old will be written off, the new one will be given !!" (C)
How did this affect the economy of the USSR?

Quote: Essex62

The problem is not in the system, but in psychology, and it was necessary to work on this, not formally. Search for methods. It is not enough to simply say that "the economy must be thrifty." We need to figure out how to do it.

- it's impossible to come up with, alas ...
Here, either with a ruble (but in the USSR it was pointless - 72 for a DT-000 cannot be kept, on average, citizens did not have such savings) or imprisoned with the risk of slipping into repression and / or corruption ...

We drove with my father across Kazakhstan along a large power transmission line in the 1970s. Under the supports lay wires - apparently they changed and threw them, they were ingrown into the ground ... Thick in the nursery arm(mine) ...
And so 130 km ...
Thrift? Oh yeah....

[Essex62]

What does it mean to slide into repression? And what about the bourgeoisie, where fat workers, able to pay for a drowned tractor, are also dumb? Are they fed with gingerbread or are they turned into a slave, forcing them to be deducted from the salary, or are they also deprived of freedom? No?
Foolishness and carelessness are best treated by logging. But in the USSR they stopped doing this, the result is collapse. Discipline, incl. and production, based on the inevitability of punishment. This is used in every possible way by the current backsliders, who prevented them from doing the same under public property. Once again, the problem goes into the field of leadership psychology. Do not care.

[your1970]

Quote: Essex62

And what about the bourgeoisie, where fat workers, able to pay for a drowned tractor, are also dumb? Are they fed with gingerbread or are they turned into a slave, forcing them to be deducted from the salary, or are they also deprived of freedom? No?

- do you propose to plant thugs, drunkards, idlers in the USSR? Tried it - it came out in 1937 ...

Quote: Essex62

who interfered with doing the same with public property.

- Party committee and trade union committee. It was impossible to give a podzhopnik a drunk - it was necessary to re-educate ...
And if you had a lot of "flyers" - the dignity concludes that you are a fig leader

When the decree "7/8" was introduced, after 2 years the number of accidents at the railway began to decrease from 60 to 000 ...
They stupidly derailed trains and robbed

[tasha]

Yah ?
In 1986, 86 tons of wheat were harvested in the Soviet Union, and 573 tons were imported, that is, 008% of production.

Then give the data for 1985, for example ...

The long-term mass import of grain could not but have a negative effect on the development of the country's grain economy, primarily on the organization of procurements and the quality of food wheat.
With approximately the same volume of wheat harvest over the past 20 years (90 million tons in 1966-1970 against 85 million tons in 1985-1988), domestic procurements of baking wheat decreased from 41 to 24 million tons, and solid - almost three times (from 3,0 to 1,1 million tons). Moreover, the quality of durum wheat has significantly decreased. In recent years, slightly more than half of the hard wheat handed over has been classified as class. As a result, the dependence of the production of bakery products on imports has sharply increased.
In recent years, every third ton of bakery products and approximately every second of pasta is produced from imported grain.

And grain was bought - for currency.

[Captain45]

Quote: tasha

The long-term mass import of grain could not but have a negative effect on the development of the country's grain economy, primarily on the organization of procurements and the quality of food wheat.

Probably from a good life in 1982, they adopted a "Food Program" at the state level, in which, as always, we will strengthen, deepen, catch up and overtake, and in fact it ended in a mess.
Brezhnev is reported to the Politburo:
- Leonid Ilyich, there is not enough meat in the country. What to tell people, how to explain?
- Comrades, we are marching towards communism by leaps and bounds. The cattle can't keep up with us!

[mmaxx]

Anecdote:
Question to Armenian radio: Is there a way out of the hopeless situation? Otaet: We do not answer questions about agriculture.

[aybolyt678]

Quote: Comrade

collected 86 573 008 tons of wheat

not so simple ... how much coarse grain was there? how many hard grades? on years?? how much storage space? There were very serious problems with the squares!

[Blacksmith 55]

Of the total amount harvested, not all was wheat. It included, for example, rice, buckwheat, oats, sunflowers, and many other varieties.
And we must take into account what to harvest and to preserve the harvest, these are completely different things.
The witness himself. I can’t give you any numbers.
How many potatoes and other vegetables were rotting in the warehouses?
The main thing was to save, and the state did not invest enough funds there.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Comrade

In general, the impression is that you did not live in the Union, or, at best, you found "perestroika" in a kindergarten or elementary school.

They did not live, therefore they think in a distorted way.

[Keer]

They didn't live, that's why they think in a distorted way

Oh, they didn’t see the abundance in the Ovoschi-Frukty stores, the twisted pipeline that showered customers with potatoes and beets half-and-half with damp earth. Bones on meat counters. They did not go to potatoes and vegetable stores.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Keer

Bones on meat counters. They did not go to potatoes and vegetable stores.

Not with me, now the bones are for happiness, because there is a lot of meat, but I can't afford it, the beets are clean, like a child's bottom, but there is only disgusting chemistry.
Honestly, I don't know which was better and when. Everyone decides for himself, and better alone.

[Keer]

Definitely, education, fundamental science, some applied branches were among the best in the world. Medicine is not the best in everything, but almost all available, and much more. But, to be honest, with the goods and products was ..... At least in words, everything was excellent and the best. In my opinion, one of the main reasons for the death of the USSR was the lies of propaganda, which led to total disbelief in the achievements, although most of them were real.

[not main]

Quote: Keer

Definitely, education, fundamental science, some applied branches were among the best in the world. Medicine is not the best in everything, but almost all available, and much more. But, to be honest, with the goods and products was ..... At least in words, everything was excellent and the best. In my opinion, one of the main reasons for the death of the USSR was the lies of propaganda, which led to total disbelief in the achievements, although most of them were real.

Literally three weeks ago ... My wife found a blank page in the general notebook, asked, do you need it? I "read" it was a synopsis on PPR or Marxism-Leninism, what heresy we copied from each other! Without even delving into! And it was! ,

[Keer]

It was easier for me, all the same, 88 years old, I shifted Solovyov's work on Hegel, as I understood, and the granny immediately rolled out the machine to me five, the second machine got a diffuser, with the problem of a mug of coffee, milk and two students. Dragged half of the group. The teacher understood, but did not refuse the promise.

[MrFox]

The bones in the store were bashfully called "soup set". Meat on the pzhalsta market: 3.50 or 4.00 rupees a kilo beef.

Take a walk, proletarian

[not main]

Quote: MrFox

The bones in the store were bashfully called "soup set". Meat on the pzhalsta market: 3.50 or 4.00 rupees a kilo beef.

Take a walk, proletarian

Well yes! When the "boiled pot" officially cost 2.20, then upon arrival in Chita, they were recruiting in loaves of 5.50 in cooptorge! And all by order of colleagues!

[Keer]

Exactly. There were many good things in the USSR, but there was also a lot of anthem. And it is annoying when comrades replace a suitable analyst with religious shamonism.

[Pilat2009]

Quote: Comrade

The author, you have loud statements, but there is no evidence, some unsubstantiated statements and abstract figures.
But everything is learned in comparison, so let's compare a couple of numbers.

What is the supply of imported grain to the country's food market? This is a further destruction of domestic agriculture.

Yah ?
В 1986 in the Soviet Union was collected (86) 573 008 tons of wheat, imported 15 tons, ie 745% of production.
В 1990 year in the Soviet Union was collected (101) 888 496 tons of wheat, imported 15 tons, ie 024% of own production.

By the way, Germany, for example, in 2014 harvested 27 tons of wheat, and imported 700 million tons, ie 000% of its own production. According to your logic, this country, following the USSR, embarked on the path of liquidating its agriculture?

In general, the impression is that you did not live in the Union, or, at best, you found "perestroika" in a kindergarten or elementary school.

The whole question is how much of the collected did not rot and what varieties were harvested. Do you know whether wheat is different.

[zenion]

During the reign of Khrushchev, specialists who worked under Stalin were exchanged for communists worthy of Khrushchev. And the specialists were driven to such a point that, of course, he flew out of the party, and could no longer hold the position of a leader. And then everything went awry. A massive deception began, not of the Soviet people, but of the capitalists, that socialism is better. As if the capitalists didn't know the truth about government. When they began to develop the virgin soil at an accelerated pace, more than half of the grain was lost due to the fact that there were no storage facilities. And under the canopies, the grain flew away in the wind, rotted and burned. It was the same with everything. And then everything in the stores began to disappear. There was no pasta at all, only cereals and everything that crumbled into glue during cooking. Although Khrushchev was thrown off, it was too late. The country began to be ruled by the party, as if the boyars.

[smihko]

Less commies would interfere with eco laws
economy and management, and it would not have happened there might be a disintegration of the country. And then our "guiding" still with Zyuganshin recites their recitatives and speeches, fooling the people.

[Mar.Tirah]

Quote: smihko

Less commies would interfere with eco laws

Or maybe not "commies" but opportunists and careerists who climb into the party for their enrichment and prestige. But they had few profits and cramped under Soviet laws. So they decided to take everything for themselves and immediately collapse the state and change the system for their loved ones? now they use it a hundred times stronger and already brazenly and shamelessly. Scientists have already proved that the "oil needle" that destroyed the USSR is a myth, but the scribblers raise this foam again and again.

[not main]

Quote: Mar. Tira

Or maybe not "commies" but opportunists and careerists who climb into the party for their enrichment and prestige

This is how you answered your own question! I will only note one thing, they were all with party cards!

[Mar.Tirah]

Quote: non-primary

Quote: Mar. Tira

Or maybe not "commies" but opportunists and careerists who climb into the party for their enrichment and prestige

This is how you answered your own question! I will only note one thing, they were all with party cards!

Well, no !!!! Comrade (or master, I don't know?), I focused on the squeamish word "commies", that is, the beggars who seized power in 1917 and eliminated the gentlemen (whom he apparently worships) as a class. that not everyone who had party membership cards were degenerates. There were also those who openly opposed the current regime in Russia for ideological reasons and not for bribes and positions.

[Keer]

So they did not come from Mars. Flesh of the flesh of the system. Or did Comrade Stalin not finish them all?

[Essex62]

Exactly so, did not finish watching, did not annoy, did not finish shooting. And not only Comrade Stalin, but also followers.
You see, what's the matter, you need to burn out your selfish selfish nature. Constantly and tirelessly, with a red-hot iron. She is from a homo-hapiens rushing herself and such organisms have to adapt, in conditions of a ban on personal enrichment. So they climbed into warm places. If you can't be a gentleman, a rich man, then somehow it would be sweeter to adapt. These individuals had nothing to do with the original, Bolshevik, proletarian system. They created their own system and it swallowed the country, which had hammered out the hucksters, to eradicate them. Young people were hung up on meaningless noodles, like the priest's sermons. And she ceased to perceive in reality the achievements of VOSR.

[Keer]

egoistic nature must be burned out. Constantly and tirelessly, with a red-hot iron. She is from the homo-hapiens rushing herself

A gloomy picture is obtained. Periodically shoot proletarians to prevent their possible degeneration into bourgeois. So, what?

[Essex62]

Why should a proletarian? He honestly works at the machine, behind the levers of a tractor, the steering wheel of a dump truck ... creating a social product for a salary and a bonus for conscientious work. In the Union, there was enough to "weed out" and "burned out", only they stopped doing it. The hegemons themselves stopped pounding shop workers, currency dealers, thief-traders, thugs, leaving everything to the "competent authorities". And those, in the conditions of universal indifference, themselves rotted.
It is gloomy, of course, from the point of view of the above-mentioned gentlemen, but this is exactly how socialism under Stalin looked like. Were weeding out the counter. How else can restoration be prevented if a person with grasping reflexes is born? "Mine and me."

[aybolyt678]

Quote: smihko

And then our "guiding" still with Zyuganshin recites their chants, fooling the people.

The party was different in different years .... Zyug is an example of a declarative struggle, an imitation of dogmatic recitative for the people's happiness.

Quote: smihko

Less commies would interfere with eco laws

The fact of the matter is that they intervened very little, they went with the flow, and when you go with the flow it is unknown somewhere and you find yourself somewhere not THERE. Comrade Stalin bought engineers and scientists, not cars and consumer goods .... And in 1949 he brought more than 30 SPECIALISTS into the Central Committee. And he proposed to reduce the share of the Party's leading share in the country's economic life.

[parusnik]

Less commies would interfere in the laws of economics and management,

Now, no one interferes with anything, what is ahead of the rest of the world? The whole world is lined up for Russian technologies and goods? Numbers on the hands write and shout who is the last and not to let out of line?

[Fat]

Well ... tell me how a trader is a trader, Alexey, you can sell?

[parusnik]

What exactly? Galoshes?

[Fat]

Here the specifics are not at all important. A merchant who knows how to sell, even selling snow in winter, will have a "profit" ....
Such a breed of people was exterminated in the state, now the question is where to get such skilled craftsmen

[parusnik]

It is important, somehow they successfully shoved galoshes in their time, walk on the sand ... Although if we sell, Chess, without an engine, it will be aerobatics

[Motorist]

Quote: Thick

Can you sell?

Easy:

(I'm like that) This crap needs to be changed after so many thousand hours.
(The buyer is like that) Why the heck? She's not worn out, has she?
(Such insurance) Eh, if cho - it's your own fault!
(Buyer like that) Damn! ...
(I am like that, with a grin) Well, take it?

[tatra]

No matter how dastardly, cowardly, delusional myths the enemies of the communists have created to justify the capture of the USSR, and the creation of their own States on its territory, including the Russian Federation. And if the largest revenues from oil exports in the budget revenues of the USSR amounted to 9%, then for the defective critics of the Soviet economy, they all 30 years accounted for about 50% of the budget revenues of their RF. And for some reason the Russian Federation will not "collapse" due to the fact that it is tightly seated on the oil "needle."

[Keer]

On what front did you die in the fight against the enemies of the communists, on what fortified area?

[Lynx2000]

In part, I agree with the opinion about focusing on the export of hydrocarbon raw materials.

I do not agree with the development of the Soviet car industry. Most likely, the decision to build a car plant and release the FIAT 124 model was political. Although, if I am not mistaken, the front-wheel drive model of Peugeot was considered. The 124th FIAT model itself underwent such a revision by Soviet engineers that over 800 design changes were made to the model, and many patents were also registered. The participation of the Germans from "Porsche" in the development of new VAZ models was their (Germans) initiative, related to body tuning, development of a 1,3 liter engine, and suspension. I then thought who managed to come up with such a beak on the false radiator grille, it is believed that the external door handles are a la Porsche-924 ... Perhaps they participated in the development of the VAZ-2121 model.

The idea and model of AZLK 2141 is not bad. It is believed that the plant was developing its own model, an order was given from above to develop and launch a new model based on the French Simka 1307 with changes.

In general, since the 1960s, cooperation between auto enterprises has been developed in global practice, or the purchase of a model and a production license, for example, Toyota thus has a family of SUVs with the J40.

[Kisa]

so I don’t understand - the festivities on the launch of the northern pipe 2 are canceled or what?

[north 2]

It was not Siberian oil that buried the USSR. The USSR was buried by the Suslovskaya propaganda to society, the Epishevskaya propaganda of the army and navy and the carefully disguised Westernism of the Andropov-Kryuchkovsky KGB.
Suslov's propaganda was engaged only in declarations that everything was produced in excess of the plan everywhere. But in the shops of the required assortment, neither industrial nor food products were available, it was necessary to get it out from under the floor. This means that either the plan was gigantic deliberately understated, so that everyone could produce over and above the plan, or there were total postscripts everywhere.
Epishev's propaganda in the army and navy spent billions of dollars on the training and education of millions of political officials, and the return from them could only be compared in political studies - by what percentage of the USSR during Brezhnev's time overtook Tsarist Russia in 1913 during the times of Nicholas II. Moreover, in watered classes it was forbidden to study the merits and difficulties that fell to the lot of the Russian Tsars and Emperors, who created the greatest Empire from the small Moscow Kingdom. And who can remember how many hours in political studies were devoted to Ivan the Great, Ivan the Terrible, Peter the Great, Catherine the Great, Count Potemkin, Kutuzov, Suvorov, Platov, Ushakov, Kruzenshtern, Chichagov, Spiridov, Skobelev, Alexander II? ... Right . Zero hours, as if the history and greatness of Russia began only after October 1917.
The Andropov-Kryuchkovskaya KGB obviously caught only small mice in the form of rare foreign spies, blackmail and anti-Soviet like Solzhenitsyn and Sakharov, but did not specifically touch the obvious rats of anti-Sovietism like Yakovlev, Gorbachev, Shevardnadze and the like, which sold to the West during their youth Khrushchev hatched plans for the collapse of the USSR for more than one decade.
And you are saying here that Siberian oil buried the USSR. Nonsense. Under Stalin, the USSR did not actually export oil, but how the Stalin five-year plans lifted the USSR to the heights of power. So both the planned economy is good and the five-year plans are good, but the blind propagandists-accomplices of the scribes and freeloaders who inherited the empire created by the millennium and did not appreciate those Great Ones who created this Empire as a legacy to them are catastrophically bad ...

[aybolyt678]

Quote: north 2

So the planned economy is good and the five-year plans are good, but the blind propagandists are accomplices and freeloaders who inherited the empire created by the millennium.

The USSR was ruined by dogmatism and opportunists ... The obvious overkill with propaganda killed the desire and opportunities to seriously study and develop Marxism. Excessive slogans aroused rejection of simple truths. An intelligible theoretical basis for socialism has never been created .... The textbook of the political economy of socialism is clearly "crude" and uninteresting in comparison with the political economy of capitalism.

[Motorist]

Quote: aybolyt678

The USSR was ruined by dogmatism and opportunists ...

And in my opinion, the "voices" were poorly suppressed. People turned "voices" into rumors, which multiplied and raised to a power with each retelling. Imaginary discontent grew, and in 91 everything went quietly and smoothly under the tacit consent of the intoxicated people ...

[aybolyt678]

Quote: Motorist

And in my opinion, the "voices" were poorly suppressed. People turned "voices" into rumors, which multiplied and raised to a power with each retelling

Do you know what they said in Germany, or rather in the former GDR? everything that was told to us about Communism turned out to be a lie, but everything that was said about the horrors of Capitalism turned out to be true.
Imagine that somewhere in the late 50s or 60s, on the contrary, the Voice of America would be allowed and a radio station would be created on which all their news and messages would be analyzed? Duel so to speak? Their own shortcomings would become more visible, maybe even move away from dogmatism and rose-colored glasses to "shortcomings in work", there would be at least some immunity

Quote: Motorist

Imaginary discontent grew, and in 91 everything went quietly and smoothly under the tacit consent of the intoxicated people ...

no, the situation there was different. There is a deep level of public consciousness that relies on basic concepts, and so in Perestroika, the basic concepts were turned upside down: first, the fight against alcoholism, then the rejection of the state monopoly on alcohol and brochures on how to brew moonshine in every stall of the Union of Printing ... further AIDS Info, from the same kiosks , where Truth and Labor were, naked girls began to hang around, then Hollywood with their heroes and films where at the end the hero receives a suitcase of dollars ... Development began to be measured not by books read but by the amount of money,
Values ​​were destroyed, Goals were fouled, Belief in universal Happiness began to provoke ridicule, and therefore the introduction of tanks to Moscow was perceived as a victory for democracy

[Essex62]

Although 91 was just the beginning, everything could be fixed. But ... They forgot how to fight for a just cause. All the same, the Western bourgeois knew how to manipulate public consciousness well. It is not excluded that the labeled man and his gang studied the training manuals and stabbed the society on them.
And I wonder if the Soviet government allowed naked women in printed matter to stop this change?

[aybolyt678]

Quote: Essex62

And I wonder if the Soviet government allowed naked women in printed matter to stop this change?

have you read Ivan Efremov such as "Thais of Athens"? - after all, he sings there hymns to the nakedness of a developed beautiful female body - an honored writer of the Union, and nothing terrible happened, The goal of beauty is to give a standard to what it strives for ...
I read another book, already up-to-date, Andrei Khodov "Sharashka of the Hitler, Get Ahead of Hitler" liked it a lot, stands out, and began to look for a sequel, found it in samizdat.ru unfinished version of the continuation, and so ... for the construction of Communism, according to the author, people began to be selected, but only those who are capable of self-stifling for the sake of society, they passed the strictest selection .. for girls, among other things, it was just necessary to be able to behave sexually charming, and even taught a special gait They lived in families, but the community and these girlish gaits caused wild envy among those who did not get into the commune ... It's a pity that the thing was not completed, many common thoughts are there. For example, in the conditions of the Union, create communes and build isolated Communism in them and at the same time allow capitalism and give them the opportunity to compete in one country But I don’t remember what that sequel was called.
On my own behalf, I will say that the athlete and the Komsomol members, activists had to issue permission in the party committees for super short skirts, the Union would have lasted longer

[Essex62]

In my opinion, the game and nonsense that Suslov and co. So infringed upon the natural.
Efremov is great. He showed very accurately a society of equal, reasonable and responsible people.
Khodova has already started looking, curious. It is doubtful about the two formations, separately, on the territory of one country. They will fight. A predator will not tolerate that a part of society is not in his sphere of profit. Essentially the same as the Union surrounded by capitalist countries.
And our beauties? This is what it was necessary to focus on in development. Nice rags and cosmetics and no crises. It is not for nothing that they say that all troubles are due to women. It is necessary to distract them from the negative and pleases the eye.

[aybolyt678]

Quote: Essex62

Khodova has already started looking, curious.

Hodov is a tired fairy, unique in its own way. There are few artistic merit, but there is a lot of social analysis, philosophy, political economy. At first it is difficult to read, then suddenly you realize that the idea is not in the plot. Although the plot is interesting: - 15 year old girl falls into the hands of an alien artifact that magically fulfills any of her wishes ... and suddenly! It turns out that the social system of society is beginning to show amazing resistance to outside influence! and in fact, any system is natural ...

[Essex62]

Intrigued. I first aimed at the Papadans. Favorite topic. The initial period of the Second World War is a splinter. Confusion and terrible losses. They still haunt us to this day, the best perished. Now there are only managers and skrepishy who speculate on Victory.

[Captain45]

Quote: north 2

It was not Siberian oil that buried the USSR. The USSR was buried by the Suslovskaya propaganda to society, the Epishevskaya propaganda of the army and navy and the carefully disguised Westernism of the Andropov-Kryuchkovsky KGB.
Suslov's propaganda was engaged only in declarations that everything was produced in excess of the plan everywhere. But in the shops of the required assortment, neither industrial nor food products were available, it was necessary to get it out from under the floor. This means that either the plan was gigantic deliberately understated, so that everyone could produce over and above the plan, or there were total postscripts everywhere.

[Terran ghost]

Right . Zero hours

And from the point of view of a state built on the Marxist-Leninist idea, which was the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, everything was absolutely correct. It should be so.

So the planned economy is good and the five-year plans are good, but the blind propagandists are accomplices and freeloaders who inherited the empire created by the millennium.

began only after October 1917.

USSR Constitution, 1936
Quote: "Article 2. The political basis of the USSR is formed by the Soviets of Working People's Deputies, which have grown and strengthened as a result of the overthrow of the power of the landlords and capitalists and the conquest of the dictatorship of the proletariat."
USSR Constitution, 1977
Quote: "The Great October Socialist Revolution, accomplished by the workers and peasants of Russia under the leadership of the Communist Party headed by V.I. defending revolutionary gains, building socialism and communism.
historical turn of mankind from capitalism to socialism. "
PS: Oh yeah, and one more little nuance. In the days of the Soviet Union, calling the USSR an "empire" was a sure way to be branded as an anti-Soviet. Public expressions of respect and love for tsarism and monarchy - even more so.

[aybolyt678]

Quote: Terran Ghost

broke the shackles of oppression, established the dictatorship of the proletariat and created the Soviet state

the dictatorship of the proletariat in 1977? there was no proletariat in 1977! there was a dictatorship of "the right person" of hysterical dogmatic party stagnation, hidden sloppiness and a secret bourgeoisie.
And Stalin's constitution also spoke about the role of the Communist Party - to help improve every Soviet person and increase his well-being. And the Brezhnev constitution is about satisfying needs. So we were satisfied

[Terran ghost]

And the Brezhnev constitution is about satisfying needs

In general, this is an axiom of the normal existence of the economy - it is needed primarily in order to satisfy the needs of people living in society.

[aybolyt678]

Quote: Terran Ghost

In general, this is an axiom of the normal existence of the economy - it is needed primarily in order to satisfy the needs of people living in society.

you are absolutely right! this is the task of the economy, not the Communist Party

[Captain45]

Quote: aybolyt678

And the Brezhnev constitution is about satisfying needs. So we were satisfied

With a feeling of deep satisfaction the Soviet people perceived the decisions of the Central Committee of the CPSU and the Council of Ministers of the USSR to raise prices for high-demand goods: carpets, crystal, cars, etc., etc. - do you remember such statements of the wise leadership?

[Essex62]

The Soviet school was told in great detail about the achievements and victories of all the great Russian commanders, scientists, poets, artists and even, you will not believe the tsars. And the future fighter, savvy, went to the SA. Even if he lived in Tashkent or Dushanbe.
And the fact that the balobols are political officials are simply worthless freeloaders, here you are right
They perverted and disgraced themselves before the legacy of the political instructors of the Great Patriotic War and the commissars of the Civil War.

[nikvic46]

I would not call the construction of the VAZ a shame. We would have had more of this "shame", and we would be like China. But for some reason, all the authors bypass the economic boycott of the USSR. The nipple system worked. You can go there, you can't go there. One Jackson-Vanik law didn’t even allow us to sell nuts. Yes, it was sloppiness. Nowadays progmatics are technocrats everywhere. But they are not far from each other. The fact is that now money is invested only on what brings income. And the maintenance of railways and forests was left to chance, and as a result, in the future, we will spend many times more on all sorts of emergencies.

[Terran ghost]

One Jackson-Vanik law didn't even allow us to sell nuts

So "forbade" that up to thirty-five percent of the Soviet Union's imports in the second half of the 1970s and 1980s were machinery and equipment purchased mainly in Western Europe.

[Essex62]

So they already understood that everything will work out for them. The society was rotting, they were not blind and constantly monitored the situation in the USSR. And it was clear to them that this was not the old monolith that had twisted the neck of their next campaign for the riches of the barbarians. And to trade is their natural state, which is not to sell a future colony a couple of machines or bulldozers.

[Terran ghost]

And they clearly saw that this was not the old monolith that had twisted their necks on their next campaign for the riches of the barbarians.

Who exactly is it to them? Well, yes, the industrialization of the USSR in the 1930s was possible only thanks to the supply of American industrial equipment and the help of American engineers who helped put this equipment into operation.

[Essex62]

1) The bourgeois collective west, or rather its puppeteers.
2) As one of the factors, nothing more. The reasonable and far-sighted leadership of the USSR used all the possibilities in the shortest possible time to prepare the country for repelling the next crusade. After the Victory, Stalin used Western developments (AO and carrier) for the same purpose.

[Olgovich]

As a result, under pressure from a serious ministerial lobby, it was decided to abandon the "petrochemical project". Among the reasons there were many objective ones. First of all, it was expensive and long, and the government needed money as soon as possible. The ever-growing military-industrial complex and energy inefficient economy required enormous resources.

key phrase - money was required immediately and now and was spent from the wheels.

And the point is not only in the growing military-industrial complex and energy inefficient economy, but also in the fact that the country with the world's largest arable land, after many decades of continuous "successes" in agriculture, found itself ... unable to feed itself and had to buy food and other goods for the population for dollars. Imports of grain only with 0,5 million tons since 1961 increased 36 times by 1991

And one more important aspect: since 1945 the USSR has shouldered the feeding and maintenance of "allies" in Europe and the country's development. To direct damage to himself, he built pipelines in c. Europe for transport ,,, RAW oil and built ... THERE are many refineries. Result: The Soviet Union supplied the countries of the Council for Mutual Economic Assistance with crude oil at a price of 15-18 rubles. per ton, which did not even compensate for the costs of oil production and transportation. The socialist countries then resold to the West oil products made from Soviet oil and using Soviet equipment at world prices.. Losses - at least $ 20 billion.

Profits from sales to the West rose from $ 1 billion at the start to $ 15 billion a year by 1980.

Huge numbers. BUT, this money was simply wasted due to the ineffective economy and did not become a catalyst for rapid development: at the 28th Congress of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, it was consulted:2,5 more material resources are spent than in the West.
This is a verdict.

[chenia]

Quote: Olgovich

grain alone from 0,5 million tons since 1961 increased 36 times by 1991

For those who are especially gifted, the problem was with the feed grain. The herd of dairy and beef cattle was poor (now several times smaller). This is the reason for buying grain. Say you bought hard grain. Yes, because a heifer is halfway across the sea, and a ruble is transported. And then fuck fodder when you can top-notch. Moreover, there are no storage problems (you take it when you need it). And you translate yours into fodder.
The price of meat did not rise from the sixties until the end of the USSR. And affordability created a scarcity.
Moreover, at the bazaar it was ALWAYS possible to take one and a half times more.
The current price of meat (relative) is the price of meat dishes in a tavern during the Soviet era.
And abundance.

[Olgovich]

Quote: chenia

For those who are especially gifted, the problem was with the feed grain.

for especially "gifted": in a country with the largest arable land in the world, there can be no problems with grain IN PRINCIPLE.

And grain imports in 30 years have grown by THIRTY SIX TIMES!

At the same time, ITS grain went under the snow every third!

At the same time, the lack of fodder in livestock breeding is stillup to 50%.

Moreover, many MILLIONS of hectares of meadows with invaluable grass fodder went UNDER SNOW-No one to mow and even spit on everyone.

This is a shame and a complete failure.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: Olgovich

This is a shame and a complete failure.

Shame and complete failure, this is what your idols have turned the country into today!

[chenia]

Quote: Olgovich

THIRTY SIX TIMES!

And here's how you compare. So malnourished RI could only import bread, the money for which was devoured by 5% of the population. And the early USSR also had to sell it for (industrialization without Western loans). And this is when 83% of the rural population could hardly feed RI. Dung EMPIRE is not comparable to the USSR.
And you don't want to compare such a parameter., The generation of electricity compared to 1913 has grown by almost thousand time!

[Lynx2000]

Quote: chenia

For those who are especially gifted, the problem was with the feed grain. The herd of dairy and beef cattle was poor (now several times smaller). This is the reason for buying grain. Say you bought hard grain. Yes, because a heifer is halfway across the sea, and a ruble is transported. And then fuck fodder when you can top-notch. Moreover, there are no storage problems (you take it when you need it). And you translate yours into fodder.

As the peasants say, you can translate from good bread into ... omno, but "this very thing" into good bread will no longer work.
High-quality grain of durum wheat of at least 3rd class, easily passes into the category of feed grain for the following reasons: weak ear, harvested in wet weather, poor storage conditions at the grain current and elevator, storage conditions during transportation are violated ...
Wheat is not the main grain in feed grains.
Feed grains are used as raw materials in the production of combined feeds with other components: cake, bone and fish meal, vitamin supplements, etc.
The main cereals used as feed grains are: corn, barley, wheat, sorghum.

[chenia]

Quote: Lynx2000

The main cereals

So, taking into account imports, they could immediately knowingly, and part of the arable land (which was intended for wheat) to be given for fodder crops.

[Lynx2000]

Quote: chenia

So, taking into account imports, they could immediately knowingly, and part of the arable land (which was intended for wheat) to be given for fodder crops.

If I find it, I will send you a link on the analysis of the grain market (including feed) in the 1970s - 1980s.
Regarding arable land, in this case, everything depended on the initiative on the spot (the chairman of the state farm / collective farm, an agronomist, an agronomist of the district and executive committees) in order to justify the expediency of growing those crops that give good yields in a given area (climatic conditions).
For example, in the foothills of the Altai Territory, with hilly terrain, frequent precipitation, relative warmth, the grown wheat was only suitable for the fodder category, the sown corn did not fully ripen, it was fed as chopped green mass harvested as silage. Buckwheat, oats, barley and rye, on the contrary, gave good yield and grain quality.

[Captain45]

Quote: chenia

The herd of dairy and beef cattle was poor (now several times smaller).

As far back as I can remember, my parents usually bought meat on Saturdays (market day) in the market from private collective farmers, and not in the state trade of 3 categories of dog meat with boards and nails from the booth. Some people also bought meat from cooperative stores, if the salary allowed. An employee of a meat-packing plant lived in a friend's house, he stole meat at work and sold it in the yard of the house, everyone knew about this, but no one ran to the OBKHSS to report it. It was all in the late 70s, somewhere in the 77-79 years and lasted until the end of the catastrophe. Now there may be a herd of beef cattle in the Russian Federation and less than the union, but within walking distance from the house of THREE farm shops + departments of a local producer in Magnit , "Pyaterochka" and the ability to choose whatever you want. Which, unfortunately, was not in the USSR. Yes, and local farmers do not raise ostriches and kangaroos, otherwise they will now come running all over the place, all from abroad.

[chenia]

Quote: Captain45

Now there may be a herd of beef cattle in the Russian Federation and less than the union, but within walking distance from the house of THREE farm shops + departments of a local producer in Magnit, Pyaterochka and the opportunity to choose whatever you want

Yes, I do not deny it. But

Quote: chenia

The current price of meat (relative) is the price of meat dishes in a tavern during the Soviet era.

I, too, could afford not only to walk in the tavern, but also to dine (set meals). But some keep saying. that there was practically no meat in the USSR.

[Terran ghost]

in the state trade, dog meat of 3 categories with boards and nails from the booth

disasters

.Now .... within walking distance from the house THREE farm shops + departments of a local manufacturer in "Magnet", "Pyaterochka" and the opportunity to choose whatever you want

It seems to me alone that there is something wrong with the logic of the narrative?

And oh yes - but how did it happen that in the "most effective" super-statist command-planned economy with almost astronomical numbers of cattle and small ruminants (according to official economic reports), in fact, in stores "dog meat of the 3rd category with boards" and for that one still have to stand in line for an hour and a half?

[Captain45]

Quote: Terran Ghost

It seems to me alone that there is something wrong with the logic of the narrative?

Of course, if you pull it out of a single piece in separate pieces, then you can fit it to whatever you want. And when it seems, it is necessary to be baptized, if the baptized Orthodox, and not the German-pepper-sausage.

[aybolyt678]

Quote: Captain45

and not in the state trade dog meat category 3 with boards and nails from the booth.

my relatives served in the GDR in those years, they told me that there were a lot of Soviet meat, textiles and other goods of the USSR in stores, very high quality. I think that the Party sold a lot of meat and other goods abroad, bypassing all accounts and plans. Journalism was then pocket-sized, scandals were, in principle, impossible.

[aybolyt678]

Quote: Olgovich

And one more important aspect: since 1945 the USSR has shouldered the feeding and maintenance of "allies" in Europe and the country's development. To direct damage to himself, he built pipelines in c. Europe for transport ,,,

let me know from what year did the USSR start building pipelines to Europe?

[Bagatur]

And "allied" wanted such beats? Not a single country in Eastern Europe wanted to live under the USSR with its miserable ideology and backward economy. Wanted an empire, a map in red? Please, you have to pay for this ... Empires perished when they could no longer pay the price of an imperial project! The USSR is not an exclusion ...

[ada]

Empire? There was a need to neutralize the possibility of a global conflict. Of course, Europe didn’t want to ... She wanted her wear on our territory, only her teeth were knocked out.

[Unknown]

Well, of course, everything in the Union was bad. Drilling equipment is not modern, chemical plants must be bought entirely, and in the end the pipes are not the same. We only need imported ones. For "Druzhba" it was decided to use pipes with a diameter of 1020 mm. Then they were made only in Germany, with which they entered into an agreement. But under pressure from the United States, Germany stopped supplying pipes. Then, two weeks later, large-diameter pipes, not inferior in quality to West German ones, began to be produced at a rolling plant in Chelyabinsk.

Why is it so fast? They knew about the US pressure on the FRG, so they prepared in advance. After all the sanctions, the pipe industry began to improve in the USSR. The level of technology and technology in the USSR corresponds to the world technical level of pipe production, and in terms of the degree of mechanization and automation of the main technological processes, the productivity of pipe-rolling and pipe welding mills surpasses it. This station is equipped with perfect technological equipment. Moreover, if in the years of the first five-year plans and the first post-war years, part of the equipment was purchased abroad (mainly in the USA and Germany), then since the 50s. the expansion of production capacity is due to domestic equipment, the technical level and productivity of which, as a rule, surpass the best foreign samples.

[aybolyt678]

Quote: Unknown

comes at the expense of domestic equipment, the technical level and performance of which, as a rule, surpass the best foreign samples.

The trouble is that the intersectoral balance showed a gigantic gap between what the Party paid attention to and where self-criticism of certain "shortcomings" was dispensed with.

[Unknown]

Quote: aybolyt678

The trouble is that the intersectoral balance showed a gigantic gap between what the Party paid attention to and where self-criticism of certain "shortcomings"

But now in RF, everything is all right with that. The guarantor of the constitution pays attention to a lot, together with his party, and no self-criticism, and no shortcomings, of which are already beyond limits. If in the USSR, the CPSU drew attention to the shortcomings, then organizational conclusions followed, with the ensuing consequences. The comparison is not in favor of R.F.

[aybolyt678]

Quote: Unknown

But now in RF, everything is all right with that. The guarantor of the constitution, pays attention to a lot, together with his party, and no self-criticism, and no shortcomings

there is no system of training and selection of leaders? as well as their shooting?

[Unknown]

Quote: aybolyt678

there is no system of training and selection of leaders? as well as their shooting?

Both. As J.V. Stalin said, cadres decide everything. What he picked up, he works with those. And some really need to be shot, they deserve it with interest.

[Aviator_]

Then, two weeks later, large-diameter pipes, which were not inferior in quality to West German ones, began to be produced at a rolling plant in Chelyabinsk.

As it became known recently, in the original version on the manufactured pipe it was not written "pipe", but a word of three letters. At the request of a photojournalist, folk art was redone for a more politically correct one.

[Fat]

For example, the VAZ rear-wheel drive platforms are from Italy, and the front-wheel drive platforms were developed with the direct participation of German engineers. Archaic "Muscovites", leading the story from the trophy "Opel", as a result could not withstand the competition with products from Togliatti.

This is a very bad generalization and is not suitable for "example" because it is wrong.

[parusnik]

N.K.Baibakov, in addition to criticism, proposed the creation of institutes for the development of oil and gas production equipment, new technologies, the development of the petrochemical industry, etc., but N.S. Khrushchev, and then L.I.Brezhnev, said a lot of oil, We will buy from them, and we still buy them. Bread. Celina, the greatest gamble, as much money was poured as cattle, slaughtered in vain, and how much money was poured into Czech meat processing plants, which then worked half-heartedly, of course, the restoration of the Central Russian hinterland suffered during the Great Patriotic War and the planting of forest belts, in arid steppes it is very expensive, compared to the virgin lands, when new cities and towns were created and almost all agricultural equipment went there. Khrushchev, he did so much trouble in the economy, God forbid. Therefore, in the West , two Soviet leaders and popular Khrushchev and Gorbachev. One began the collapse of the USSR, the second finished.

[Captain45]

Quote: parusnik

.Bread. Celina, the greatest gamble, as much money is drunk as cattle, in vain cut

My parents (the kingdom of heaven) are first virgin lands, they were awarded medals "For the development of virgin and fallow lands", they lived and worked on the state farm, which was filmed in the film "Ivan Brovkin on the virgin lands", my father is a driver-mechanic, my mother is a paramedic in a medical center. They told how and who mastered the virgin land, father after demobilization, mother after medical school, how much grain went under the snow, because the currents were open and everything was stored on the ground under the sky, how the director of the state farm distributed grain to the workers, only so as not to disappear, they kept cattle everyone, they fed them free grain, but selling meat was such a problem that they gradually left a cow on the farm for milk and butter, a couple of piglets for meat, and a dozen chickens to feed themselves. It would be nice not to leave the virgin soil. I remember my dad had a photo: a bare steppe, three roads diverge to the sides and there is a poster: "All roads lead to communism" and he stands with his friends laughing, looking at it. Then I thought, but the photo was anti-Soviet, they could have been drawn under Article 70-1 of the Criminal Code for anti-Soviet agitation. Although this only underlines the idiocy of that propaganda, brought to the point of absurdity.

Quote: parusnik

and how much money was poured into Czech meat-packing plants, which then worked half-heartedly,

Our city is the sister city of Czech Brno because we formed the first Czechoslovak battalion of Ludwig Svoboda, well, somewhere in the early 80s, the Czechs donated equipment for the production of sausages and sausages to the meat processing plant, supplied, adjusted, and left. After three or four months, the line refused to work, they called in specialists, they came to study the situation and say: "In fact, according to the technology, minced meat should be put into the sausages, then the line will work." But how does the meat get there, if that man has already stolen it and sold it to his neighbors, because meat is very rare in the trade, and you want to eat every day. I am not an enemy of the USSR or the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, but if we objectively consider that time, then the party has stuck such jambs all the time, so I do not shed tears, remembering the USSR. Yes, it was a good time - childhood, adolescence, youth and the grass was greener, and the sky was bluer, damn it, it came to mind that now the adjective "blue" itself has been perverted to the point of impossibility. When it comes to the sixth decade, then of course youth is good, but meat with a bone in borscht is much more pleasant.

[parusnik]

It's just a pity for those huge, I'm not afraid of this word, money thrown to the wind, in the era of virgin lands, schoolchildren collected metal, under the slogan, virgin pioneer tractors, like we later, BAM-pioneer trains. And these tractors were not enough in other regions ...

[Stalker84]

Thousands of "torches" burning associated petroleum gas as a symbol of that era. And what about associated gas? This is the most valuable raw material for the chemical industry. And yes, including the same consumer goods and composite and much more. Unforgivable extravagance. And I can also remember how huge amounts of fertilizer were applied to the fields and manure from farms was poured into the river. Well, why was he rude, to scatter it over the fields, the state gives fertilizers for free.

[No name B]

Almost every collective farm of the Ukrainian SSR had mountains of mineral fertilizers dumped anywhere and poisonous rivers and land. The fuel was poured wherever it was necessary so that the norms were not cut. In our river, crayfish disappeared completely by the mid-80s, and appeared by the end of the 90s, when fuel and fertilizers became expensive, which is why they began to be used carefully.

[Stalker84]

So we have the same mountains, fertilizers were scattered about horrible. And I remember about the fuel, the men remembered how they drank and at the gas station they did not fully tighten the valve and the whole tank leaked into the river and it was like what a good time it was, they did not punish anyone, they wrote it off. And around the village there were three cemeteries of machinery with fully operational combines and tractors that were written off because otherwise they would not give a new one. At the end of the 90s, everything was turned over to metal. I also remember how everyone went, even there was nowhere to graze the cows, it was ugly. Because of this, the ovres grew rapidly. The river has become shallow, the area is generally very dry.

[Aviator_]

Thousands of "torches" burning associated petroleum gas as a symbol of that era. And what about associated gas? This is the most valuable raw material for the chemical industry.

These torches are still burning all over the world, because if they are not burned, then problems with their storage and processing will begin. You are repeating foreign nonsense about Soviet mismanagement.

[Captain45]

Quote: Stalker84

Thousands of "torches" burning associated petroleum gas as a symbol of that era. And what about associated gas? This is the most valuable raw material for the chemical industry.

Since 1972, when the Orenburg-Western Border gas pipeline was laid and the gas plant was built, it has been burning and burning. Under the communists it burned, under the democrats it burned, under state capitalism it burns and will burn, even though the countrymen were in power - Vyakhirev, Chernomyrdin ...

[Boris55]

If it were not for Samotlor's oil, life would have forced the restructuring of the economy 10-15 years ago.

Brad!

It was not necessary for Brezhnev to sell oil to the West for dollars.
It was necessary to trade in CMEA for rubles, not dollars.
De Gaulle came and wanted to agree to trade with us for rubles - they did not agree ...

The purposeful policy of the top of the CPSU led the country to capitalism.
Slaves at heart, always looking for a master.

[Essex62]

Brezhnev's slave, leading to capitalism, can not be called anything. Suffice it to recall what hell, on a patch of fire on Malaya Zemlya, he went through at the front and how he crushed the counter in Czechoslovakia. The first attempts, from 56 m in Hungary, of the green scum of flowers.
But further on the health and brains of the secretary general someone very much rolled, drugs, with all that it implies. The centralization of government played a cruel joke on the country. The modernization of Stalin's system, where only ideology was left to the party apparatus, was not carried out. Stalin, it seems, was also eliminated by the encirclement, understanding and horrified.
Cadres decide everything, cadres.

[Aviator_]

And, finally, the overthrow of NS Khrushchev put the final end to the most progressive version of the use of oil rent.

Khrushch Kukuruzny said a lot of things, but for some reason he didn’t succeed with creativity. The declaration on the need for oil refining was not supported by anything. The result is logical.

[hermit]

Oil of Western Siberia destroyed the USSR, let's say. But what was the Russian Federation without oil and gas? Ukraine?

[BAI]

And this did not happen in the 80s. A decade earlier, A.N. Kosygin uttered an epochal, addressing the head of Glavtyumenneftegaz:

"The bread is bad - give 3 million tons of oil above the plan."

Even Gaidar, when he referred to this phrase, wrote:

A. Kosygin, Chairman of the Council of Ministers of the USSR, one of the most competent Soviet leaders, used to call the head of Glavtyumenneftegaz V. Muravlenko and say something like the following words: "With bread it is bad - give 3 million tons above the plan" 4.

Something like the following - and not "uttered". The same thought can be expressed in different ways.

[nikvic46]

The economy and financial policy must be alive. And if all this is enclosed in an iron framework, then there will be problems in the future. There are countries with high inflation and large foreign debts, and they are no worse coping with their problems. But when the ABC books begin to take into account every hundredth of inflation, not allowing them to actively work in the field, then it turns out to be nonsense. Now, as never before, the real sector of the economy has shrunk. Give it a low lending rate. He cannot "feed" when one with a bipod, and seven with a spoon.

[Proxima]

Quote: Essex62

Lies for lies. Another vilification of socialism, a planned economy

In vain they minus a person, he is right. The article contains a bunch of inconsistencies. The author cries that the USSR bought grain by killing its agriculture. Not true! USSR purchased fodder corn. It is for feeding livestock. So that there are no problems with meat and dairy products. After we stopped buying grain, there was a loss of livestock and vice versa, Russian grain rushed in a stream for export. And the fact that the Russian consumer began to eat less meat and dairy products by almost an order of magnitude - who cares ?! Or, what the author writes: "The leadership of the USSR decided that first of all it is necessary to feed its own production with cheap oil, and only then sell the surplus to the West" This is what all normal countries do to make the product competitive due to cheap fuel and lubricants. Now in Russia they are doing the opposite, inflating fuel prices on the domestic market and literally strangling everyone! Prices for all products are going up!

[tasha]

Not true! The USSR bought feed grain.

“In recent years, every third ton of bakery products and approximately every second pasta is produced from imported grain.” Refers to the 1980s. Refute!

[dgonni]

Yes, with the union of idiocy was enough.
Durum grain was purchased in Canada for foreign currency. At the same time, the people fed the beast with bread.
For a ruble, 7 loaves of bread for 14 kopecks. And 2 packs of matches for change!
They took it in sacks! 30-40 loaves each!
In general, if the price of bread was at least at the level of profitability. And this is in the region of 40-50 kopecks per kilogram loaf. Then no export would be required.
But it was necessary to make a political decision.

[Captain45]

Quote: dgonni

For a ruble, 7 loaves of bread for 14 kopecks. And 2 packs of matches for change!
They took it in sacks! 30-40 loaves each!

The most interesting thing is that the villagers bought bread. The VILLAGE bought bread in the city, then fed the cattle with this bread and sold the meat in the city at the market. Awesome economic system, as under the NEP, the link between the city and the countryside Bread in the villages forgot how to bake, if only some old grandmother baked for herself. After college in '83, he worked as an auditor at the district police station, traveled around the villages, saw how and what they live with, what they trade.

[your1970]

Quote: Stalker84

Or to be honest, they stole.

I estimate that at least half of the whole crop was stolen... Simply because the sown area in our region has decreased from 5 to 10 times, and the volume of the harvest is comparable to that of the USSR.
And then it could be prescribed
- now no one will pay money for air

[Stalker84]

It's the same in Mordovia. Half of the fields are overgrown with forest and the harvest is greater than in Soviet times. At the same time, I remember that rural elevators and grain warehouses at that time were really dumped. There is also a moment with crop losses during harvesting and transportation. And improper storage. Well, yes, theft. Only the lazy did not steal.

[your1970]

Quote: dgonni

But it was necessary to make a political decision.

So him accepted
PRESIDIUM OF THE SUPREME COUNCIL OF THE RSFSR
DECREE
from 6 May 1963 years
"On strengthening responsibility for feeding livestock and poultry bread and other bakery products purchased in state and cooperative stores"
Recently, numerous cases have been established when speculative elements - livestock owners who are not engaged in socially useful labor - use cheap state bread and other bread products to feed livestock for the purpose of personal enrichment.
Some workers and employees - city dwellers, collective farmers, workers and employees of state farms, instead of taking care of the preparation of feed for their livestock in permitted ways, feed the cattle and poultry bread, flour and cereals, bought up in state and cooperative stores.
.........
2. Establish that the purchase in state or cooperative stores of baked bread, flour, cereals and other bread products for feeding cattle and poultry, as well as feeding to livestock and poultry bought in stores of baked bread, flour, cereals and other baked goods, committed after imposition for these actions of a fine administratively, or systematically, or on a large scale - are punished with correctional labor for a term of up to one year, or imprisonment for a term of one to three years, with or without confiscation of livestock."

[dgonni]

This is a voluntaristic decision that has nothing to do with the economy.
And I don’t remember a single one who sat down under this article.

[your1970]

Quote: dgonni

And I don’t remember a single one who sat down under this article.

Were you a people's judge, a lawyer or a prosecutor in the USSR?
Crocodile caricature on this topic - wagon.
The article also worked in the 80s

[Pavel the builder]

It was even worse - they bought drilling rigs in the USA to extract paraffin oil and sell it, buy drilling rigs again ... they fed US factories with orders. One academician calculated that bred foxes and foxes would have given more currency and oil would have remained intact and the tundra would have remained intact, not spoiled by barrels of caterpillars, etc.

[Pavel the builder]

It is hilarious to read about rear-wheel drive Muscovites ... yes, they are much more reliable in the countryside than asphalt Zhiguli and Samara .. there are generally in high esteem the fields and UAZ with a lawn to this day

[Andrey VOV]

Nowadays, in the village, more often than a UAZ, you will meet Dassier and Kruzak,

[Kushka]

Quote: Aviator_

And, finally, the overthrow of NS Khrushchev put the final end to the most progressive version of the use of oil rent.

Khrushch Kukuruzny said a lot of things, but for some reason he didn’t succeed with creativity. The declaration on the need for oil refining was not supported by anything. The result is logical.

I was 1964 in 12. By this time I was in
all circles. We sculpt in the radio circle superheterodyne
transistor receiver to the exhibition. Suddenly, everyone stuck around the window -
in the courtyard, a rocket club launches a cardboard rocket. She takes off
meters by 20 and a mouse falls out of it on a parachute from
handkerchief and lands safely! Ayda all in
rocket club! From something political from Khrushchev, I
of course I don't remember anything. But about GREAT chemistry and
I remember well about transistors - they broadcast every day.
Everyone was waiting for a miracle and an abundance of plastics, household chemicals
and rampant transistorization.
As a result, neither Khrushchev himself, nor I until the army itself, did not wait
plastic bucket, and of the detergents there was ONE
stinking pasta in a nondescript jar ("AELITA" it seems), which
I quietly poked at my mother when I was fiddling with the bushings of my bike,
for which he then received a fair amount.

[Vdi73]

Yes, the author would have written directly, as Putin said, the USSR could only produce galoshes. True now, and Chinese galoshes.

[Narak-zempo]

Quote: Vdi73

Yes, the author would have written directly, as Putin said, the USSR could only produce galoshes. True now, and Chinese galoshes.

And what is the national leader wrong?

[Narak-zempo]

Those damned commies!
Not only an atomic bomb and all sorts of mines were planted under the foundation of Russian statehood, which Vladimir Vladimirovich recently wrote about in his article about Ukraine, but also insidiously stuck an oil needle up to the tonsils!

[Keer]

Well, they nullified the meaning of the victims of the Civil War, the Great Patriotic War, they lost 30% of the land and 40% of the people, I am so, everything is fine.

[Sergei Khukharev]

The Soviet Union was not a raw material power. Everything that is written in this article is the economic policy of modern Russia. Many countries of the world owed the Soviet Union tens of billions of dollars for goods supplied to them, aircraft, tanks, ships, tractors and harvesters, cars and much more. In our time, Putin has written off these debts even to the oil-producing countries of Iraq, Algeria and others.

[Lepsik]

What nonsense I just read. 30% of the world aircraft fleet is Soviet-made. Even before the Second World War, 40% of all tacticians in the world were made in the USSR. Whole classes of weapons have not yet been able to master NATO countries such as a torpedo flurry - due to the technological lag behind the USSR.

As for oil, the share of oil in the budget of the Russian Federation is ridiculous, 16%, given a surplus budget of the Russian Federation, it can afford to stop selling oil altogether.

[Andrey VOV]

Just compare the quality of our tractors and theirs, here is the answer to questions about our aviation industry ... HERE the bastards ruined ... The planes were excellent

[Keer]

Reluctance to think critically. Unwillingness to admit mistakes. Periodically brings Russia to the “zugunder.” This is sad. If the USSR was an ideal model, why were “CIA agents” at its head, while KGB or GRU agents were not at the head of the United States?

[Alexei Zharkov]

The USSR has never been a perfect model.
Ideal models simply do not exist.
The Brezhnev USSR was a good model.
Gorbachevsky is a failure.

[Keer]

I asked, just why the CIA agents were, as they say here, in the power of the USSR, and ours in the power of the United States. If we were more powerful, more successful, and more attractive

[Alexei Zharkov]

We got it already with this "oil needle"!
More than 90% of all goods in the USSR were of domestic production!
Even in Moscow, imports were rare.
In small towns it was simply not there.
What is there? Bread abroad, 20 percent of all domestic ...
Meat 10-15% ...
Is this "NEEDLE"?! ..

[Keer]

Even in Moscow, imports were rare

Well, it's really yours, that's why they gagged behind him.

[viva_cuba]

There were just few good things. In my town, a shoe factory produced leatherette shoes of the same ugly styles for about 20 years. And of terrible quality. As I remember one aunt asked the seller in the store, - who buys her thread at all ?. The seller chuckled and said no. And hundreds of people at the factory received salaries and bonuses. So 90% of the products are just on paper. Plan. and there, at least the grass does not grow further.

[Captain45]

Quote: Alexey Zharkov

More than 90% of all goods in the USSR were of domestic production!
Even in Moscow, imports were rare.

That is why women were foolishly rushing about for Polish cosmetics, Yugoslavian boots, and men for GDR suits and Czech shoes from "Cebo" and "Bati", not to mention the notorious jeans and sneakers. Yes, at least take furniture sets, domestic coffins in coffins, and then you have to stand in line. Yes, they produced footwear and clothes in the USSR, but often the cut and quality were such that it was not necessary for nothing, but what was decent modern got by "pull" or at exorbitant prices from speculators on the "push" (push - for the generation of "Pepsi" so was called the clothing market in the 70s-80s). This is how they lived, although the party proclaimed - "everything for the person, everything for the good of the person", but they did not say who this person was. "Klava, do you know? Glory to the KPSS is not a person at all!"

[Uma palata]

Excellent article.
And damn bitter.

[viva_cuba]

Amazing, huh? The adherents of the scoop are shouting, - We have destroyed collective farms, agriculture, etc. But the USSR imported grain, and Russia, Kazakhstan and Ukraine export it. It seems like a paradox. But no.

[Eug]

They are exported - because there is practically no animal husbandry. And the chemicalization of agricultural just rolls over in comparison with the times of the USSR.

[viva_cuba]

in general, the Russian Federation has caught up in the production of meat with that period

[Eug]

Today's article on the site (Oil Needle of the USSR) with numbers of cattle livestock is your answer.

[deddem]

Quote: viva_cuba

Amazing, huh? The adherents of the scoop are shouting, - We have destroyed collective farms, agriculture, etc. But the USSR imported grain, and Russia, Kazakhstan and Ukraine export it. It seems like a paradox. But no.

And you count the number of people employed.
For some reason, the scoops artificially maintained excessive employment in the village and did not allow it to bend.

[Dzafdet]

Unfortunately, the party nomenklatura in the USSR approached the management of agriculture in a voluntaristic manner. This is the widespread cultivation of corn, wheat, where it cannot grow. Monstrous losses of the harvested crop. Destruction of MTS and much more. The production of weapons in excess of any need and, most importantly, assistance to all Asia and Africa undermined the economy and destroyed the country.

[Eug]

It was not oil that was buried, but the desire of the country's leadership for the easiest paths with buns for themselves. The people, however, also received something, but in the end the corporation won ...

[Andrey VOV]

Quote: Lynx2000

Quote: chenia

So, taking into account imports, they could immediately knowingly, and part of the arable land (which was intended for wheat) to be given for fodder crops.

If I find it, I will send you a link on the analysis of the grain market (including feed) in the 1970s - 1980s.
Regarding arable land, in this case, everything depended on the initiative on the spot (the chairman of the state farm / collective farm, an agronomist, an agronomist of the district and executive committees) in order to justify the expediency of growing those crops that give good yields in a given area (climatic conditions).
For example, in the foothills of the Altai Territory, with hilly terrain, frequent precipitation, relative warmth, the grown wheat was only suitable for the fodder category, the sown corn did not fully ripen, it was fed as chopped green mass harvested as silage. Buckwheat, oats, barley and rye, on the contrary, gave good yield and grain quality.

Today, Altai, part of Siberia, the main regions where durum domestic wheat is grown, in the Soviet Union it is also Northern Kazakhstan, and the main breadcrumbs in the Kuban and black earth today are mainly technical high-margin crops and soft wheat, but mainly 3 and 4 classes

[deddem]

Quote: viva_cuba

in general, the Russian Federation has caught up in the production of meat with that period

I repeat - in the USSR, this is the reverse side of a socially oriented economy.
At all costs, keep employment and the basic social package, from where the crowds of well-fed and disgruntled idlers, plus the efficiency of the economy in the area of ​​the baseboard, with the exception of a couple of enclaves.
If you don't like it, all the extra people must be disposed of. This is what they did in the 90s, under the applause of the disposed of ("and we are for it").
Well, or wait for the implementation of Eurocommunism, when everyone will have a guaranteed income, regardless of their desire to work, and robots will work en masse.

[trahterist]

Quote: Globe

The article says that Gagarin was launched. And they couldn't grow wheat.

Xs, where they could not grow there, in the Baltic States, state farms / collective farms only picked up the pace of growth in agricultural production, and new equipment was supplied regularly and even in quantities exceeding demand (and thanks to Her (and not mythical loans from the West) and other Matbaze, due to the idiotic euphoria about "freedom", mediocrely squandered in shares among "their own", the republics somehow kept the farm afloat), in 1990 a large-scale reclamation of arable land was carried out and all undeveloped corners were cleaned.
All this right up to the last days of the accursed autumn of 1991.
On the contrary, they did not know what to do with the products.
I myself spent all my childhood and adolescence in the village, and I remember very well how they lived in the village "poor and hungry" profukalivsepolymers.

[trahterist]

Quote: Andrey VOV

Just compare the quality of our tractors and theirs, here is the answer to questions about our aviation industry ... HERE the bastards ruined ... The planes were excellent

JohnDeers, Fergusons, New Hollands, Cases and other Fendts, issues After the 10s, it is far from the same reliability as before.
This is for you, as a practically exploiter of this technique of different generations, I will note it for the second decade.
They managed to cram a bunch of useless electronic junk, then lifted the price tags to the stratospheric level (it does NOT pay off in principle), but the resource is None.
Next, having spawned a bunch of "service masters" who can do nothing except SKD replacement, but they demand wages (for what, I wonder?), Read, a bunch of parasites.
To call it progress, you need to be a little alternatively gifted.

[ism_ek]

Quote: Globe

And they couldn't grow wheat.

What do you mean they couldn't? On average, now the Russian Federation produces grain by 20% percent than the RSFSR. But technology has also made a step forward in 30 years ...
The USSR spent 80% of wheat on animal feed. The Russian Federation sells grain abroad and buys meat grown on this grain .... This is the arithmetic.

[dub0vitsky]

If gasoline was cheaper in the USSR than carbonated water, then there was no reason to come up with economical internal combustion engines for cars. So our URAL-375 ate 80 liters of gasoline 92 marks per 100 kilometers. No designer will do this upgrade. You will go crazy three times, you will disrupt the serial production of a well-established one, and the economic effect on each engine will be less than the salary of a design bureau for a month. If gas in the country cost 4 kopecks per cubic meter, then in small towns, on the periphery of the country, it could not be. By definition. What will drag the pipe to Krasnoyarsk if the work will NEVER pay off? Raw materials that are cheap domestically were generated by costly technologies, when we spent five times more energy per kilogram of finished products, and 10 times more raw materials than developed Western countries.

[dub0vitsky]

Quote: ism_ek

Quote: Globe

And they couldn't grow wheat.

What do you mean they couldn't? On average, now the Russian Federation produces grain by 20% percent than the RSFSR. But technology has also made a step forward in 30 years ...
The USSR spent 80% of wheat on animal feed. The Russian Federation sells grain abroad and buys meat grown on this grain .... This is the arithmetic.

What are you talking about? The yield in the USSR was .... (do you remember singing a song about a hundred-day harvest, a record of that time?) But, after all, this is 16 centners per hectare. CELINA. Shame. Crime. 8 centners harvest. And killed 15 million small slingshot. Read about the Ryazan experiment. Postscripts, deception, lies from top to bottom. Today the average harvest in the country is 40-54 centners per hectare. Nowadays, poultry meat is completely its own. Because the conversion (refund) of funds is the fastest. From egg to finished carcass 21 days + 32 for growing. The pig grows for a long time. Chick, too, it goes on for months. However, the growth of this type of product is evident. The brake is not the lack of feed, it is enough, but the lack of a breeding herd. Everything was cut in the hungry years of the Brezhnev stagnation and perestroika. You go crazy to learn that a herd of cows in Norway, located on royal farms, produces 80 liters of milk per day on average. Every cow. Not only wheat is used to feed livestock. Much more - corn, legumes, solid forage, hay, straw. Look in the Internet for the composition of the feed, the recipe. Your stupidity will be visible at once.

[Mister who]

USSR strength! What about the referendum on the preservation of the country?

[russ71]

Quote: Pessimist22

Well, German engineers helped in the development of rocket technologies, if everything was good, then tell me why it became bad and fell apart?

Because at the helm were only decrepit leaders who were satisfied with everything ... And it was necessary to build less world socialism in the banana republics.

[realist]

if in 1970-1980 the country's leadership did not understand the importance of creating real production facilities and relied on the export and purchase of consumer goods abroad, then what to talk about today ...

[ivan2022]

The question of the motives of the "Khrushchev thaw", the abrupt change in ideology, priorities of the national economy, the reasons for the emergency stopping of the implementation of the 6th five-year plan in the mid-50s was carefully hushed up.

[meandr51]

From the sale of oil, the USSR received no more than 8% of the currency. A lot of oil was supplied at preferential prices to the CMEA countries. There was no oil needle in the USSR. And now there is.

[Warhead-xnumx]

Why should I go back empty?
But then I came across goods.
- What currency do you have? - they say.
- Do not be afraid, - I say, - not dollars!

[Glagol1]

There was a closed problem in the USSR. Oil revenues were used to buy grain, instead of simply weakening the political, administrative and price stranglehold of the village. And the village would give bread, in the village there would be more happy people with a ruble in their pocket. And instead of grain, it would be possible to buy more technologies and licenses abroad and to expand production at home. But the stubborn die-hard orthodox in the Politburo, Grishin, Suslov and others like them, defeated the reformers (Kosygin, Mazurov ...) and the reform of the 70s did not go through. After 15 years, a price was paid that cannot even be calculated ...
Now a similar process is underway in the country - small and medium-sized businesses are being stifled, large ones are simply taken away, people are being stifled by taxes and low wages, but the National Guard, which does not produce anything, but only spends, grows fat and grows fat, like everything power. Huge revenues from expensive oil and gas are hidden in a pod instead of spending on the needs of the country and people. And in a few years everything may also explode, as in 1991. Does the authorities fail to understand this or are they simply leading to this?

[Basarev]

At that time the expression became fashionable in the State Planning Committee:

"If it weren't for Samotlor's oil, life would have forced the restructuring of the economy 10-15 years ago."

It's hard to say more precisely.

It is strange that the State Planning Committee did not come up with a simple idea: the economy is not a dead glacier. She must be rebuilt all the time, hourly changes are her normal life activity. And when the economy has not changed for years, it means that it is in a coma.