Western Aviation Journal: None of the MiG fighters received as much attention in Russia as The Checkmate from the Sukhoi Design Bureau

The Western press continues to discuss the presentation at MAKS-2021 of a promising Russian single-engine fighter called The Checkmate. Experts of the specialized aviation magazine HushKit drew attention to the pomp of the presentation of the aircraft from the Sukhoi design bureau, noting that now the situation with the development of the MiG fighter line is becoming completely confusing.

From an article by a Western author:

The question arises, what should the Russians do with the rival MiG design bureau now? Perhaps none of the MiG series fighters, including the new-generation concept, received as much attention in Russia itself as The Checkmate received from the Sukhoi Design Bureau.

In the publication HushKit they write that now questions arise with the future of a particular fighter from the MiG - MiG-35. This plane, as the foreign author put it, now “will definitely be in the shadow of the presented fighter from the Sukhoi company.

The author expresses the opinion that now the United Aircraft Corporation (United Aircraft Corporation) "can finally opt for those successful Sukhoi products that are already showing themselves, and not on new concepts from MiG."

From the article:

The MiG-35 is not much cheaper than the Su-35S, but its problem is that there are no large orders yet. They promised to install a radar with AFAR, but there is no final data on such an installation yet.

At the same time, the presentation of the promising fifth-generation fighter The Checkmate was called "very successful in terms of advertising" in the material.

The author argues that not only the United Arab Emirates, Vietnam or India, as was initially assumed, can show interest in such aircraft, but also, for example, Turkey. It is extremely important for Ankara to get progressive technologies, first of all, for the development of its own next-generation aircraft under the conditions of American sanctions.

Comments

[knn54]

-None of the MiG fighters received as much attention in Russia as The Checkmate from the Sukhoi Design Bureau.
It is somehow undignified for an expert from PROFILE magazine to call the aircraft of the Sukhoi Design Bureau a MIG,

[kytx]

.tut speech is about a moment. As a competitor to su

[Peak]

Quote: kytx

.tut speech is about a moment. As a competitor to su

And as for me, the information provided in the article about the "inequality" of the MiG and Su was used by the author for purely speculative purposes.

[Orange bigg]

The Sukhoi Design Bureau was able to interest the UAE with its Su-75 project, and the MiG Design Bureau, respectively, could not interest India in the MiG-35 project. That's the whole difference.

.Moscow. July 20. INTERFAX.RU - Russia has an anchor customer for the new Checkmate light fighter, which was presented to Russian President Vladimir Putin on Tuesday, Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Borisov told Interfax.

“We already have it, we are doing it for him,” Borisov said at the MAKS-2021 air show. He explained that we are talking about a foreign air force.

In addition, the head of Rostec, Sergei Chemezov, told Interfax that the Russian Defense Ministry would also be the customer of the new fighter.

“Yes, of course,” he said in response to a related question from the agency.

He stressed that this is an initiative development of Rostec, but the state corporation envisages deliveries not only to foreign, but also to the Russian military.

https://www.interfax.ru/russia/778853

[Orange bigg]

Photo of the Su-75 cockpit at the link below.

.Electric pedals and the "Maneuver" button: an overview of the Su-75 cockpit. Detailed photos of the cockpit of the new Russian Checkmate / Su-75 fighter and comments on its differences from the cockpits of other Russian fighters appeared on the Web.

.Information for the pilot is displayed on one large monitor, and there are no mechanical buttons for switching modes around its perimeter - apparently, the screen is touch-sensitive, it understands touches in gloves, in which fighter pilots fly. There are two more displays in the cockpit: a system display on the right and a touchscreen on the top.


"Perhaps the top one will act as a backup, but I did not see the corresponding button on it. Without a backup it will be very sad," writes FighterBomber.

The aircraft is equipped with the most advanced ejection seat produced in Russia: K-36D5 with dual-mode heating and backrest tilt adjustment. The distance to the pedals for the height of the pilot is also regulated (and electrically). There is a high-altitude suit temperature setting.

.- The engine is similar to the AL-41 modification, but the thrust vector deviation is implemented somehow differently than in its predecessors, and is more similar to the OVT from the MiG, - continued FighterBomber.

https://rg.ru/2021/07/23/elektroprivod-pedalej-i-knopka-manevr-obzor-kabiny-su-75.html

... We are now returning to the single-engine mid-range fighter segment. Judging by what was said about its price (the figure was called about $ 30 million), it is very competitive. But it is clear that this is the price for the machine itself, and the contract price - taking into account additional equipment, personnel training, and so on - will be higher.

It can be assumed that this machine will generate interest. Taking into account the fact that it is already being created on the proven technologies that were used to create the twin-engine Su-57, it really can be quickly brought to a series, to mass production. I would like to believe that it will be in demand both in the foreign market and in our air force, "Kramnik said.


Earlier, the head of the Ministry of Industry and Trade Denis Manturov said during a speech at the MAKS-2021 air show that the Checkmate fighter, a novelty of the domestic aircraft industry, will compete with the American F-35A and the Swedish JAS-39 Gripen. It is reported by Rambler. Further: https://news.rambler.ru/army/46862073/

[Alexey Sommer]

Are you Gordeev by any chance?

[Orange bigg]

Quote: Alexey Sommer

Are you Gordeev by any chance?

Are you contacting me?

[Alexey Sommer]

Quote: OrangeBigg

Are you contacting me?

No.
I'm going to Pik.

[Vladimir Mashkov]

Quote: PiK

And as for me, the information provided in the article about the "inequality" of the MiG and Su was used by the author for purely speculative purposes.

Totally agree with you. "Snide" friends "are experiencing! And along with them, and local Voshnye "well-wishers" -ahtyvists, throwing objectionable minuses.

[venik]

Quote: kytx

.tut speech is about a moment. As a competitor to su

=======
What kind of competition? "MiG" - ovtsy are now concerned about the creation of "PAK-DP", to replace the MiG-31! ....
By the way, I won't be surprised if a promising "Checkmate" is sharing creation of KB "Su" and "MiG" !!!

[Doccor18]

What should the Russians do with the rival MiG design bureau now?

In Soviet times, the MiG thundered, and now ... He lived for some time at the expense of a deck boat.
Sukhoi crushed everything under himself.

[marchcat]

The MiG simply did not fit into the "market", as one famous character put it.

[Doccor18]

Quote: marchcat

just didn't fit into the "market" like

and 99% of the Soviet industry ...

[Cananecat]

Quote: marchcat

MiG just did not fit into the "market"

They talked about this at the dawn of the creation of the UAC, that Su would first move the MiG into the background, then it would be necessary to disband the Migovites altogether. What we are now seeing.
The laws of aerodynamics and EPR are the same everywhere, and the Migovites will not be able to shoot with a new product now, all that remains for them at the moment is to lick the 35th to perfection, and the limit of perfection, as you know, does not exist.

[Vadim237]

KB MiG needs to move on to the creation of shock drones and kamikaze drones of training and civil aircraft and return to the direction forgotten 30 years ago - single-stage aerospace aircraft.

[prior]

Yes Yes.
First, "dry" appropriated all the MiG developments, and then finally "landed".
Now this market is called. And competition, when some "devour" others.

[NDR-791]

Quote: prior

Now this market is called. And competition, when some "devour" others.

It is of course true, but before that there were not very many differences. For example Tupolev also ate a lot of people. And Myasishchev and the same Sukhoi with his ready-made T-4. Previously, the survival of the design bureau was highly dependent on having its own plant.

[apricot]

It's strange yesterday in another article, my comments were similar to the comments above, they put pluses, but they minus me, demoted and sent to the dispute battalion ...

[Black Colonel]

Do not worry, this also happens: you were showered with minuses for your comment, and the other with similar meaning is covered in crosses (pluses). Not killed!

[Alexey Sommer]

Quote: marchcat

The MiG simply did not fit into the "market", as one famous character put it.

Prosralipolymers !!!
Does he remember about PAK DP?)

[Siberian 66]

Because the MiG is at an impasse with a light twin-engine fighter. And this was obvious as soon as the MiG-29 appeared. And this is against the background of quite successfully fighting MiGs with one engine. It turned out to be heavier than light ones and weaker than heavy ones. This concept was flawed for the sake of maneuver and rate of climb. But there were more minuses. And weight, and gluttony, and the cost of an hour, and maintenance of two engines instead of one, serviceability and combat readiness ... At one time we also wanted to "bend", but we were forced to "vertical".

[paul3390]

Well - Mikoyanovtsy did not come up with everything themselves, but according to the terms of reference of the Ministry of Defense. In principle, maybe the option would not be so bad if the MiG-29 was used in the original sense, precisely as a light front-line fighter .. At least - it is definitely no worse than the original opponent - the F-16. But then, for the sake of economy and trends, they began to hang on him the tasks of striking the ground, i.e. actually a fighter-bomber. And then - of course, he was clearly losing to heavy cars .. And in general, the same F-16 ..

[Doccor18]

MiG created a heavy multifunctional 1.44, studied the possibility of creating a light single-engine LFI project, with a high degree of unification with its heavy counterpart. By the end of the 80s, rightly believing that the 29th could still be well "polished", the LFI project was not forced. That is, the MiG created a heavy 5-ku, issued a project for a radical modernization of the MiG-31M heavy interceptor, a good MiG-29M project (it was very good for its time, surpassing its main enemy F16), the project included an LFI. The MiG was advancing in all directions. What could Su oppose? Endless upgrades of the Su-27, a good aircraft, but of the 4th generation ... Experimental Su-47 ...

And then it began ... The collapse of the Great Country, lack of money, political intrigues, in which Sukhoi clearly outplayed the MiG ...

[paul3390]

Dry and so climbs wherever possible, trying to crush the entire aviation under him. And by the way - it is not always successful. The same vaunted Superjet. And this is very dangerous for the country, such a monopolization. Moreover, under capitalism, when the main indicator of the activity of any office is the amount of money sucked out of the state.

[Doccor18]

Quote: paul3390

under capitalism, when the main indicator of the activity of any office is the amount of money sucked out of the state.

The main purpose and meaning ...

[paul3390]

This is generally a dead-end path of mankind - when absolutely all parameters of its activity are replaced by one - dough. Moreover, it does not matter in what way it was acquired, the very fact of its quantity matters. Capitalism will ruin us all ironically. He is the same cadaver, completely dissatisfied, so elegantly described by the Strugatskys.

[Doccor18]

Quote: paul3390

This is generally a dead-end path for humanity ...

Undoubtedly, when 1% of the world's population is self-satisfied at the expense of 99% (therefore, these 99% should be stupid enough not to understand this) - this is not even a dead end, but a catastrophe of civilization.

[paul3390]

“Everything from here,” said Roman. “I told him a thousand times:“ You are programming a standard superegocentric. He will rake in all the material values ​​that he can reach, and then he will roll up space, cuckoo and stop time. " And Vibegallo cannot understand in any way that the true giant of the spirit not so much consumes as he thinks and feels.

[Doccor18]

"Genius people are brilliant in everything."

[paul3390]

Alas - judging by the subsequent events, it seems that there was only one genius - Arkady. The activities of Mr. Vititsky after his brother's death raise at least a lot of questions ..

[out of habit]

Only the great Leonardo was brilliant in everything.
And when a specialist with ambitions climbs into someone else's area, it turns out to be zilch.

[Doccor18]

Quote: out of habit

Only the great Leonardo was brilliant in everything.

Mikhailo Vasilievich Lomonosov.

[out of habit]

I confess that I did not notice the elephant.

[URAL72]

Undoubtedly, when 1% of the world's population is self-satisfied at the expense of 99% "

When was it different? Even in a primitive society there was ONE leader of the tribe, with time a shaman was added. Along with the growth of the number and habitat, there was a need for "managers", governors. Well at least serfdom was abolished. But they did it by force, if not for economic necessity, then no one would have canceled.

[Doccor18]

Quote: URAL72

And when was it different?

In my (and in your, probably) childhood.
Everyone around lived roughly the same. Well, the colonel had a car, well, that's all, perhaps, how he differed from the senior lieutenant ...

[poquello]

Quote: Doccor18

Quote: URAL72

And when was it different?

In my (and in your, probably) childhood.
Everyone around lived roughly the same. Well, the colonel had a car, well, that's all, perhaps, how he differed from the senior lieutenant ...

what about the general?

[V means B]

And now the respected URAL72 is not "good though serfdom has been abolished," but good though serfdom has not yet been introduced.

[Sancho_SP]

Yes, but the topic of the high-speed interceptor (MiG-31) has not yet been mastered by Su. This is the last chance for KB Mig.

[Doccor18]

Something tells me that PAK DP will be created (if at all) also under the patronage of Sukhoi ...

[Sancho_SP]

That's why I say - a chance of graying.

It's too late to compete on equal terms with Sukhoi. You can only try where Sukhoi has not yet concentrated his forces. Light drones, super-heavy high-speed drones, high-speed interceptors, etc.

[URAL72]

"Something tells me" ...

Do you hear voices? Do they give you a hint?

[Herman 4223]

The Su-75 in its current form was created in just one year. If with the same vigor they take up the pack dp, Then the moment will be over.
And it will be sad, there should be competition in development.

[Starover_Z]

Quote: Doccor18

In Soviet times, the MiG thundered, and now ... He lived for some time at the expense of a deck boat.
Sukhoi crushed everything under himself.

I believe that KB MIG is now trying to make a modern analogue of its MIG-21.
In general, each design bureau has its own niche - MIG - to catch up with everything that flies quickly and high and tear, and the SU to demolish everything that tries to fly through the back streets (quietly) or tries to win in an air battle.

[figwam]

We are waiting for the new interceptor MiG-41

[Vadim237]

One interceptor won't get you very far.

[Piramidon]

Quote: Doccor18

What should the Russians do with the rival MiG design bureau now?

In Soviet times, the MiG thundered, and now ... He lived for some time at the expense of a deck boat.
Sukhoi crushed everything under himself.

Do not bury the rich scientific and technical school of MiG. After all, nobody was dispersed anywhere. Even in Soviet times, aviation design bureaus were often united. The notorious "Tupolev Sharashka" united several design bureaus under one roof under the trademark of all kinds of Central Design Bureau. The scientific and technical potential of the MiG has not gone anywhere. Just merged with "dry". I am sure that the Su-75 largely contains the ideas and developments of the MiG Design Bureau and its potential will be used.

[svp67]

Perhaps none of the MiG fighters, including the new-generation concept, received such attention. in Russia itselfwhich The Checkmate received.

It is IN THE MOST RUSSIA, how cool it conveys the whole meaning of the article. Yes, so, what, what, but Sukhoi learned to PR well.
And now they just put "check and checkmate" on both "MiG" and "Yaku" ... intercepting the "topic", and most importantly funding

[OgnennyiKotik]

So that's it, OKB them. AI Mikoyan no longer exists, in fact he was swallowed up by "Sukhoi". And this plane is the last nail in the coffin lid.

Rostec made a decision to merge Sukhoi and MiG into a single Aircraft Manufacturing Center

https://topwar.ru/181013-rosteh-prinjal-reshenie-ob-obedinenii-suhogo-i-mig-v-edinyj-centr-samoletostroenija.html
Unfortunately, a country can only contain one fighter manufacturer. Even the USA kept only two manufacturers.

[svp67]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

Rostec made a decision to merge Sukhoi and MiG into a single Aircraft Manufacturing Center

It's not entirely clear here, as far as I understood and the explanations of the same Cherezov, the Sukhoi and MiG design bureaus themselves will remain, but as structural units, they will unite and reduce the administrative and economic components ...

[apricot]

"Rostec has made a decision to merge Sukhoi and MiG into a single Aircraft Manufacturing Center"

Probably for this, Serdyukov was put in this direction, and immediately the troubled military aviation became ghostly and sad ...
Many clap their hands about the activities of Sukhoi, but if to be objective, apart from SU34 and the modernization of SU27 (30,35), nothing new has been brought to mind, SU57 - the Ministry of Defense is in no hurry to buy, rather there are critical flaws (besides the engine), Okhotnik - everything is on the way (even there was the last Chinese warning from the Ministry of Defense), Jet - I will shut up (I already ran into it once), now the 75th ...

[Cananecat]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

Unfortunately, a country can only contain one fighter manufacturer. Even the USA kept only two manufacturers.

What the monipolization of fighter aircraft production leads to can be clearly seen in the example of the F-35. High cost and imperfections, Sukhoi needs a moment as a competitor to be in good shape. There will be no competition, the degradation of the monopolist will begin.

[donavi49]

But in France, of all the variety, only Dassault remained, who devoured everyone. And they have the best selling MFI4 + in recent years.

Moreover, both new European aircraft and Tempest and Dassault are the fruit of the cooperation of a number of countries and design bureaus.

At the dawn, this could be done in an aircraft garage or in a small production facility. Not now. It can be seen even in cars. That Renault-Nissan, then VAG, then GM, then Geely, then Baoding.

[Cananecat]

Europe went to this for more than one decade, perhaps we will come to this, but now we have just like that. These are the fruits of the Second World War, when separate design bureaus were created for different aircraft.
Migi have always made interceptors, 31st as an example, but then they decided to take on the LFI, even created a good car, but to develop it further using the example of combat capabilities and maintenance, they somehow did not go very well.

[ccsr]

Quote: Canecat

High cost and imperfections, Sukhoi needs a moment as a competitor to be in good shape. There will be no competition, the degradation of the monopolist will begin.

I am more inclined to think that they will occupy different niches, and there will be no direct competition. But if everything returns to the Soviet system of aircraft construction, and when the best practices of each manufacturer are known to competitors, then we will be able to significantly reduce the development costs of all aircraft. So monopoly is not so bad, if it is controlled by the state - there will be less costs.

[Alexandra]

The T-10 competed (and could not withstand this competition, as a result of which the T-10S appeared) not with the aircraft of the Mikoyan Design Bureau or Yakovlev Design Bureau, but the F-15.

[Trickster]

But Moment has not been a competitor to Su for a long time. An acquaintance from Sukhoi once told me their saying. If Sukhoi needed selected alcoholics, lazy people and losers, they would have hired employees from the MiG.

[apricot]

"But Moment hasn't been competing with Su for a long time."

They would have financed and supported (and Yakovlev) Sukhoi, I think the result would have been different ... I may not be completely objective, but MIG is just love (although my father told how to serve him at -30, though 21st)

[paul3390]

a country can only contain one fighter manufacturer.

The issue is controversial. Since the country will definitely not buy foreign machines of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, the Russian Federation becomes in fact a hostage of one company. Without any competition. And under capitalism, we all know perfectly well how the bourgeoisie know how to milk the state as soon as the opportunity presents itself. In addition, Sukhoi is also not immune from failures - and what to do if the next project suddenly turns out to be unsuccessful? What should the Air Force be rearmed for? Nooo - for the sake of state security, at least two design bureaus are needed! Saving on armies is like death for us. There is no money - so a couple of oligarchs will not buy new yachts, you look - and there will be finances for MiG ..

[Alexey Sommer]

Quote: paul3390

we all know perfectly well how the bourgeoisie know how to milk the state as soon as the opportunity presents itself.

And who owns Sukhoi?

[paul3390]

You see, this is an ambiguous question in our country. For there are plenty of examples when, nominally, the office belongs to the state, but in reality they rule and saw financial flows - characters that are very far from the interests of this state ..

[Alexey Sommer]

Quote: paul3390

You see, this is an ambiguous question in our country. For there are plenty of examples when, nominally, the office belongs to the state, but in reality they rule and saw financial flows - characters that are very far from the interests of this state ..

But I cannot agree with you completely.
For unfounded reasoning on this topic is very subjective.

[paul3390]

And do not argue - you need to look at things. For example, Crimea - is it a part of our country? Do our largest banks recognize this? It seems to be-like state-owned? And so - in almost everything.

[Alexey Sommer]

Quote: paul3390

Do our largest banks recognize this? It seems to be-like state-owned?

You will forgive principled in secondary issues.
Sorry of course.
Our state recognizes Krymnash .. Cards work in Crimea ..
Only cats will be born quickly.

[paul3390]

This is from the Sberbank website. And this is your job ??? How is it - the state of Crimea recognizes ours, but the type of state Sberbank - in fact, does not? Declaring that profit is much more important for him than the law .. In your opinion, is this normal?


Why is Sberbank not working in Crimea?

The main reason is sanctions. Sberbank has its own interests and branches in many countries of the world, including those that impose sanctions on the Russian Federation. And given the fact that Sberbank is a state structure (in fact, property rights), it is logical that the sanctions apply equally well to this financial organization. If Sberbank opens at least one branch or ATM in Crimea, the United States and European countries will instantly impose sanctions on it and literally force it to leave Europe. This will have a very strong effect on the level of income and does not compensate in any way for the ability to calmly distribute structural divisions on the peninsula. Thus, at the moment Sberbank is not risking its profits and remains "armed neutral": there are no ATMs and branches, but the cards work like any other banks.

[Alexey Sommer]

Quote: paul3390

Is this normal in your opinion?

Normally

That was before us.
And now as we can.
I come to Crimea and use my savings card at ATMs.
What else do you want?

[paul3390]

Once again - there is NO Sberbank in Crimea. And his card is served by other banks, but with a commission.

[Alexey Sommer]

Quote: paul3390

And his card is served by other banks, but with a commission.

Serve.
Well, I don’t mind the commission.

[ccsr]

Quote: paul3390

Thus, Sberbank at the moment is not yet risking its profits and remains "armed neutrality": there are no ATMs and branches, but the cards work like any other banks.

Quite right - everything works for Sberbank in Crimea and is very stable. Moreover, it is possible to issue a Sberbank card both on Taman and without leaving the Crimea, when it is delivered through the delivery service directly to your home. And then you can work with her like all residents of Russia. The problem has been sucked out of the picture, given the fact that many Sberbank users do not go to branches for months or years at all. use the internet bank.

[Genry]

Quote: paul3390

The Russian Federation becomes in fact a hostage of one firm. Without any competition.

Not an average company, but a powerful corporation, in which there is an opportunity to conduct more expensive technological developments ...
And competition is with foreign manufacturers - this is already a question of the country's stability and security.

Quote: paul3390

In addition, Sukhoi is also not immune from failures - and what to do if the next project suddenly turns out to be unsuccessful?

At the stage of generating ideas, besides the Sukhoi Design Bureau, there are also old design bureaus. Only firms with a duplication of technological and scientific developments and manufacturing plants have disappeared (what should be given to each plant for composite and other complex products?).
And inside Sukhoi there is also competition.

[paul3390]

And competition is with foreign manufacturers - this is already a question of the country's stability and security.

This is not entirely true. The simplest option - this is the only office in the country that offers a fighter jet for 100 billion, assuring that it is cheaper - well, it just can't. And - what will you do with it? You have no alternative! Moreover, it may not be profitable for one office to strive for perfection, the main thing is that its offer is not much worse than a foreign one. Do you understand? Not radically better, but just not worse .. Why bother with a monopoly?

[Genry]

Quote: paul3390

The simplest option - this is the only office in the country that offers a fighter jet for 100 billion, assuring that it is cheaper - well, it just can't.

If this is the left "office" - then it goes sideways.
If it is a large corporation, then there will be a rationale for every penny. And the military, as part of the state, has always influenced and will continue to influence pricing - otherwise they will not allow this corporation to enter the domestic and foreign markets.
And in our case, the KLA is state-owned - in fact, militarized and everything immediately agrees with the military. And it is not necessary to mean by it only "Sukhoi", because the structure of several old design bureaus scattered throughout the country - that is, the centers for generating ideas - remained impersonal and united only the scientific and production base.

[URAL72]

we all know perfectly well how the bourgeoisie know how to milk the state "

Of course we do. But what does the KLA have to do with it, a state structure? And we also know very well that the Russian Aerospace Forces buy aircraft at "domestic" prices, which are significantly lower than export prices. Yes, MiG and Su are now under the same roof. I think this is useful, since it becomes possible to load barely living MiG factories. I do not exclude that the Su-75 will be produced in Lukhovitsy. If a large series is planned, then in fact there is nowhere else.

[Pechkin]

So that's it, OKB them. A.I. Mikoyan no longer exists, Unfortunately, the country can only contain one manufacturer of fighters

OKB MIG does not produce anything, as does Sukhoi. They are just working out. Produced by the daughters of the UAC Mig and Sukhoi, etc. That is, to produce and sell the UAC business. These are two design schools inside the KLA. Designed by different competing teams. They just cut down on the office apparatus. At the presentation of the Su-75, they said that they used a supercomputer to reduce development time, so MIGs also have access to it. This is an optimization to reduce costs and increase productivity. This is what the UAC is for. No one is going to kill MIG, nor is the design school a brand.

[carstorm 11]

There is no funding there yet. At the presentation, they immediately said that this is an initiative development.

[svp67]

Quote: carstorm 11

There is no funding there yet.

The key word here is "bye". After such a stir, let's see what happens

[carstorm 11]

Of course, everything will change. But they did the plane without it, and that's a fact.

[svp67]

Quote: carstorm 11

But they did the plane without it, and that's a fact.

So both MiG and Yak made their planes on their own, but without such a PR, the companies remained at the "broken trough"

[Alexey Sommer]

Quote: svp67

So both MiG and Yak made their planes on their own, but without such a PR, the companies remained at the "broken trough"

What kind of planes did they make?
Please clarify..

[svp67]

Quote: Alexey Sommer

What kind of planes did they make?

Well, for the MiG, these are the "unfortunate" 1.44 and 35, for the Yak -201

[Alexey Sommer]

Quote: svp67

Yaka -201

Yak-201 is a project for the further development of vertical take-off and landing aircraft Yak-141 and Yak-43.

This is also on your own money ???

Quote: svp67

this is "miserable" 1.44

This is money for the State Service.

Preliminary work on the creation of a fifth generation heavy fighter for the Air Force and Air Defense began at the end of 1979 as part of the I-90 program ("fighter of the 1990s"). In 1981, TsAGI issued recommendations for an aircraft made according to the "canard" design with an adaptive delta wing and a large number of deflected surfaces

...

[svp67]

Quote: Alexey Sommer

This is also on your own money ???

Yes, there was no government funding for their own.
By the way, this "chess player" looks a lot like him

Quote: Alexey Sommer

This is money for the State Service.

Initially, and then the MiG pulled this project on its own as much as it could.
So, with the MiG-35

[Alexey Sommer]

Quote: svp67

Yes, there was no government funding for our own

Then there was nothing but state funding.
Well, for whom are you writing this?)
And about MIG 35 ...
Who needs it?
And for what money does KB MIG exist today?

[svp67]

Quote: Alexey Sommer

Then there was nothing but state funding.
Well, for whom are you writing this?)

Then when? Already in the days of the Russian Federation? When did this plane make its first flight? How much did it cost the MiG?

Quote: Alexey Sommer

And for what money does KB MIG exist today?

Crumbs of money received for maintenance of operation and repair of MiG aircraft fall from the lord's table of the MiG

[Alexey Sommer]

Quote: svp67

Crumbs of money received for maintenance of operation and repair of MiG aircraft fall from the lord's table of the MiG

What a lordly table ?!
They have a hell of a debt ...
And everything overlaps, yeah! Bank loans, but this state forces banks to pay loans to this financial corpse in order to save the collective.

[svp67]

Quote: Alexey Sommer

Bank loans, but this state forces banks to pay loans to this financial corpse in order to save the collective.

Alas, this is not entirely true now. MiG is part of the UAC and receives all additional funding from there.
Although, in all honesty, the fact that the MiG found itself in such a position is precisely the fault of the KLA, which was ruled by the Sukhovites for a long time.

[Alexey Sommer]

Is there any point in discussing this?
KB MIG exists. Developed by PAK DP.

[svp67]

Quote: Alexey Sommer

Is there any point in discussing this?

It is a pity that "Dry" and other "nameless" planes are rising into the sky ...
All sorts of MS-21, and so the Yak-142, PAK DP, PAK YES ...

[carstorm 11]

In the form of models that children can glue? We must pay tribute to Sukhoi, they did gooooo much more. A presentation is just an action that attracts people. The Migovskys could do it all themselves, but something went differently.

[xorek]

At the same time, the presentation of the promising fifth-generation fighter The Checkmate was called "very successful in terms of advertising" in the material.

Learning from you Anglo-Saxons ! But advertising is advertising, and our combat fighters are usually tested in battle .. We have learned by bitter experience in our history ..
Well look guys .. It's really beautiful

And buyers will be sure, especially those who are straining with the United States

[pyagomail.com]

Question: how is the MiG-35 superior to the Su-35? In price, in speed, in combat load, in range, in the cost of maintenance? Will you say that these are planes of different classes and purposes? Can Su perform the functions of a MiG? And vice versa? (I sincerely respect MiG and Su)

[Sancho_SP]

Yes, nothing, these are analogues. And the analogue from Su is better (based on the results of operation and sales abroad).

The main mistake of KB Mig is the rape of the corpse of the MiG-29 concept.

[Model101]

Quote: Sancho_SP

Yes, nothing, these are analogues. And the analogue from Su is better (based on the results of operation and sales abroad).

The main mistake of KB Mig is the rape of the corpse of the MiG-29 concept.

Some kind of necrophilia ..

[svp67]

Quote: Sancho_SP

The main mistake of KB Mig is the rape of the corpse of the MiG-29 concept.

And why there are no complaints about "Su" in this respect. They are the ones who most of all "mock" the Su-27

[Sancho_SP]

Moreover, Su is the best we have in fact.

[Doccor18]

The MiG-35 is 35-25% cheaper than the Su-40 (according to different sources), and its maintenance is also cheaper.
The whole problem with the MiG-35 is that it was late. This plane has been flying in our aerospace forces for at least 10 years and exported ...
But is the RSK MiG guilty of this ...

[Sancho_SP]

There are no actual prices for the moment. They were not produced in series or purchased in the era of modern prices. About service is cheaper - where does the info come from? The resource before overhaul of the main units and the cost of these units do you take into account?

[Doccor18]

As for the cost, some sources slip figures that give a general idea.

“Moscow and Delhi have tentatively agreed on the joint production of the MiG-35 in case the Russian Federation wins the tender for 110 fighters for a total amount of over $ 5 billion,” said Vladimir Drozhzhov, Deputy Head of the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation of Russia. He stated that a preliminary agreement has been reached with the Indian corporation HAL. According to him, Rosoboronexport has already sent to the Indian side an offer to supply MiG-35 fighters as part of the received request for information (RFI), and during the MAKS-2019 air show, Indian pilots flew the MiG-35, "reports information agency "Interfax". avia.pro.2021-02-03.

It is known that according to the State Arms Program for 2011-2020, it was planned to purchase 37 production MiG-35S fighters for the Russian Air Force (VKS) worth about 37 billion rubles.
23.08.2018/XNUMX/XNUMX.Livejournal.com

About exploitation

While the Su-35 appears to be a more powerful fighter overall, the MiG-35 retains a number of important advantages. The fighter's operating costs are 20 percent lower than that of the MiG-29, and the MiG-35's lower maintenance requirements allow it to fly more sorties and operate from shorter runways.

At the same time, the economic factor should also be taken into account - the MiG-29K is half the price of the Su-33, and an hour of its operation costs 2,5 times less

There is, of course, no exact data. But for those fragmentary ones, it can be assumed that the operating costs of the MiG-35 will still be lower than that of the Su-35, of course, subject to normal serial production ...

[Genry]

Quote: pyagomail.ru

Can Su perform the functions of a MiG?

MiG-29 operates from unpaved runways (there are overlapping air intakes). MiG-35 from asphalt roads.
These are front-line attack aircraft with a higher rate of climb and maneuverability than the SU-27/30/35. They are cheaper to operate on single targets, better suited to hitting the ground. They have less radio-optical signature, fewer problems with shelter on the ground ...

Dry (except Su-25) can work only from concrete runways with a greater need for work in preparation for departure. They are designed for long-distance missions.

[Sancho_SP]

Let's better discuss why a fighter should "work" ground targets when there is a Su-34/25 for this? Yes, even if it is necessary, then the special equipment (Hephaestus, right? I don't remember well) is a suspended container.


Well, unpaved airfields - yes. But which is cheaper: to adapt (or not to use) the Su from the ground, or to fence a separate plane for this?

[Genry]

Quote: Sancho_SP

And let's better discuss why a fighter should "work" for ground targets at all, when there is a Su-34/25 for this?

Better yet, tell me which fighter can replace the MiG-29/35 in the frontline zone.

Quote: Sancho_SP

But which is cheaper: to adapt (or not to use) the Su from the ground, or to fence a separate plane for this?

If you adapt the Su-27 ... for frontline missions, you will get a similar MiG-29. Su-25 as an example for you (only tasks are purely ground-based).
And by adapting the Su-57, you will get a single-engine CheckMate.

Ideally, the dimension is Yak-130. But so far the miniaturization of equipment has not matured.
And drones also ...

[pyagomail.com]

Quote: Genry

Better yet, tell me which fighter can replace the MiG-29/35 in the frontline zone.

There are such words: "Generals are preparing for past wars ...", in the sense that the next war will be of the same type as the previous one. Probably, there will be two types of wars: 1. War against the "barmaley", as in Afghanistan, Syria. 2. war against an opponent of equal armed forces. These two types of wars will probably require different strategies, tactics and, naturally, a different set of weapons, including aircraft. In a type 1 war, apparently, front-line bombers, attack aircraft, and drones are needed. In a type 2 war, I don’t know, probably strategic bombers, missiles, interceptors. Is there a place for front-line fighters of the MiG type there?

[Genry]

Quote: pyagomail.ru

In a type 1 war, apparently, front-line bombers, attack aircraft, and drones are needed. In a type 2 war, I don’t know, probably strategic bombers, missiles, interceptors. Is there a place for front-line fighters of the MiG type there?

You are just trying to repeat someone, but you don’t think with your head.
In your 1st type: yes, the enemy does not have his own combat aircraft, therefore there is no need for his own fighter aircraft (well, unless just in case).
In the second case, the enemy will have everything, plus a very dense front line. Therefore, fighters, as part of an air defense system, are necessary, and their effectiveness will be associated with a narrow specialization (the economy of war means spending less on your own and provoking more for the enemy's costs). Raising heavy Su to destroy single simple drones (target mockup) - oh, how unprofitable.
The range of dimensions for fighter aircraft will continue to expand.

[pyagomail.com]

[quote = Genry] You are just trying to repeat someone, but you haven't thought of it with your own head. [/ quote]
Honestly, he came up with everything himself. But I think that in a war of the 2nd type there will not be [/ quote] a dense front line [/ quote] - there will be an exchange of missile strikes, air, ship and land-based missiles, and, unfortunately, nuclear (and hydrogen) missiles. And only at the final stage will tanks and infantry go into battle. What will aerial fights look like - like a "dump for dogs"? Unlikely: I saw on the radar screen, locked the target, hit it with a long-range air-to-air missile and fled (flew away). Shoot down enemy bombers - for example, the Israelis strike Syria without entering Syrian airspace - how to shoot down their planes? That is, interceptor fighters should have a long range - it's more like the MiG-31. And we will shoot down "the simplest drones" with a laser or electronic warfare means.

[Genry]

Quote: pyagomail.ru

But I think that in a type 2 war there will be no dense front line

If you have 2 people on the line of defense. for 1 km, then 10-20 people will easily pass / break through it. This breakout platoon is very easy to deliver, camouflaged and very difficult to spot / scout. Therefore, such a number of military personnel will participate in a normal defense so that the enemy's tenfold breakthrough fist is easily detected and has restrictions on rapid transfer. So think more intensely.

Quote: pyagomail.ru

there will be an exchange of missile strikes, air, ship and land-based missiles, and, unfortunately, nuclear (and hydrogen) missiles.

What for? Rockets are expensive. Artillery is the queen of the fields! You think rapid-fire self-propelled guns are just being developed - specifically for the front.
MLRS are highly mobile systems and are used in cases of liquidation of breakthroughs or in clusters .... On the front line, plowing the ground with missiles is nonsense.
H-bomb? Heh ... made fun. Yes, there are both our own and enemies - everyone will fall - this is not a tactical weapon.

Quote: pyagomail.ru

And only at the final stage will tanks and infantry go into battle.

Why tanks and infantry if, in your opinion, the enemy does not have a saturated front line?

Quote: pyagomail.ru

Shoot down enemy bombers - for example, the Israelis strike Syria without entering Syrian airspace - how to shoot down their planes?

There is no problem to shoot down. There is a problem with early detection. The Syrians need to install a radar platform in the sea with air defense and escort ships, then a covert approach from Lebanon will be excluded.

Quote: pyagomail.ru

That is, interceptor fighters should have a long range - it's more like the MiG-31.

The larger the radius, the larger the plane and the more expensive its flight hour. It would have been possible to make the Tu-160 a particularly long-range fighter - but it will instantly ruin ...

Quote: pyagomail.ru

And we will shoot down "the simplest drones" with a laser or electronic warfare means.

Electronic warfare has temporary advantages - they will soon learn to resist it, and only the global coordinate determination systems will remain distorted.
A laser from the ground in the atmosphere has a specific limitation in range and power (the atmosphere is disturbed). It is good for them to shoot down only all sorts of "kamikaze", but it is cheaper to use a machine gun turret.

[WIKI]

The author argues that not only the United Arab Emirates, Vietnam or India, as it was initially assumed, can show interest in such aircraft, but also, for example, Turkey.

It is more clear from the article itself: “Probably export clients or partners?
The three most obvious potential candidates will be India, UAE and Turkey. However, India is likely to be very wary after its experience with the PAK FA / FGFA program and weak post-acquisition support for the Su-30MKI fleet. The UAE is apparently (which is confusing from my point of view) allowed to buy the F-35, so they are unlikely to be interested in the LTA. Turkey has its own TF-X ambitions to develop domestic LO fighters and also saw the F-35 behind the curtain before it was dropped from the program, so it will have very high operational expectations for any future stealth fighter acquisition. that LTA is unlikely to be able to satisfy.
Otherwise Vietnam, Argentina and Algeria are potential candidates, but the likely competition comes from more mature and less risky proposals from China. "Https://hushkit.net/2021/07/20/what-we-know-about-russias -new-fleabag-stealth-fighter-sukhoi-checkmate-qa-with-rusi-thinktanks-justin-bronk-update-from-jim-sonic-smith /

[Vladimir Vladimirovich Vorontsov]

***
What I value, what I am proud of in the world -
MiG alone? - No, not MiG alone ...
***

[Maks1995]

And, another PR. Be patient, 3 years of sucking on the SU57 layout ahead ...

[Sancho_SP]

Well, actually, everything is correct.

MiG-29 is a dead-end branch of evolution. Being a complete analogue of the Su-27 family, the Mig could not stand the competition and gradually left the stage.

The MiG-35 project in this situation can only be justified as a maintenance of the Mig design bureau's pants. But if KB Mig is incapacitated (nothing but mastering support can not), then it all looks like a waste.

[Pechkin]

But if KB Mig is incapacitated (it can do nothing but master support), then it all looks like a waste.

That is why they merged.

[bar]

"Can finally opt for those successful Sukhoi products that are already showing themselves, and not on new concepts from MiG."

Kamov was merged with Mil, and MiG would be merged with Sukhoi. Apparently this is what goes on. Optimization...
Maybe it's for the better, less money to scatter. Competition is good in civilian life; in the military-industrial complex, it only hurts. The history of the USSR has shown this well.

[Marachuh]

And what prevents us from producing su75 at Mikoyan's facilities? Perhaps in the near future we will see a moment.

[Sancho_SP]

KB are not factories. They do not have the capacity to produce. And the factories are already loaded.

[Zaurbek]

MiG35S does not have AFAR (for some reason, Sukhoi managed to get AFAR and PFAR, but MiG does not) and there is no next generation of RD-33, Sukhoi already has a second Al31-Al41- Product 30 at the exit ........ without this it looks paler than Sv35S and somewhere on the level of modernized Su27 ...

[Orange bigg]

But what about AFAR Zhuk-AM and RD-93MA?

.РД-93МА is a new aircraft engine developed by JSC UEC-Klimov. In addition to the engine, the power plant includes an automatic control system BARK-93MA and a box of aircraft units KSA-54M.

The RD-93MA engine has improved performance characteristics. In particular, increased thermodynamic parameters, improved design of the fan and hot section, modernized power plant automatic control system. Also, the main indicators have been increased - the assigned resource and thrust. An additional mode of emergency start of the engine in the air is provided and the possibility of emergency fuel draining is implemented. All this is due to the specifics associated with the possible use of the power plant on a single-engine aircraft, which entails additional safety requirements.


Bmpd's comment. According to known data, the modified RD-93MA engine, which is an upgrade of the RD-93 engine (a version of the RD-33 with the lower arrangement of the gearbox), was developed to equip a new version of the Sino-Pakistani light fighter JF-17 (FC-1), designated JF- 17 Block 3 (the RD-17 engine is installed on the serially produced JF-1 Block 2 and 93 fighters). The first flight of the prototype JF-17 Block 3 fighter, built at the Chinese aircraft manufacturer Chengdu Aircraft Industries Group (CAIG) in Chengdu, took place on December 15, 2019, but apparently the first prototype was powered by a conventional RD-93 engine. The serial production of JF-17 Block 3 aircraft is supposed to be carried out with the RD-93MA engine, the thrust of which in the afterburner mode is believed to be about 1000 kg higher than that of the RD-93 (9300 kg and 8300 kg). For the first time, the development of the RD-93MA engine at Klimovo was mentioned in 2012.

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4084629.html

[Zaurbek]

RD 93 was reconfigured for FT17 ..... with modernization. Here it is better to compare it with American trd .....

[Alecsandr]

You have to think with your own head

[Alecsandr]

Damn gathered on this site of amateurs "seven Stalinist blows"

[Alecsandr]

The war will come "pah pah" everyone will be in for a bitter disappointment. Where are you our Stalin's falcons. As in 1941. Read the memoirs

[Alecsandr]

And in general the glory of the USSR. He at least left some groundwork in aviation.

[Alecsandr]

And then they write here "sofa experts" who have not served in the Armed Forces for a day

[Sancho_SP]

Radar is a module. Of the fundamental restrictions on installation, it has weight, dimensions and power consumption. Anything that fits into the MiG-29 will fit into the Su-27. But not the other way around.

[Zaurbek]

AFAR is simpler ... they are initially smaller and the number of modules can be adapted to the required diameter

[Sancho_SP]

Well, less is weaker.

[Zaurbek]

Afar is not so critical

[Sancho_SP]

Well Duc where does this in terms of the advantages of the MiG-35? This Afar is yours and climbs there and there.

[alexmach]

The MiG35S does not have an AFAR (for some reason, Sukhoi managed to get an AFAR and PFAR, but the MiG does not)

Well, what will prevent the same AFAR from being put on the MIG? Well, unless this AFAR on shamatista is imported.

[Vladimir Nizhegorodsky]

They liked our "Shah and Checkmate"
The CheckMate and the power of the MiG know.
They checked and saw everything.
They are just jealous of despair.
Saliva splashes.
With their printing press, the cost of development and production is several times more expensive than their technology.
Thanks for rating them.
And thanks to our scientists and keep the pace.

[alexmach]

They promised to install radar with AFAR, but there is no final data on such an installation either.

Well, as it were, they promised him for the new SS too .. If there is an AFAR for this Chess Player, it will be for MIG too.

[Ros 56]

Yes, do not give a damn from a high mountain who writes what. The main thing is that when the time for H comes, he wipes his nose to all these hackers.

[Wolf]

I could not resist I want to add.
Such design bureaus have so many and at such a high level THERE IS NO THREAD IN ONE COUNTRY IN THE WORLD !!!
Even the United States, with its printed remains, had no money. They, with their corruption shems, which are called "LOBBING", managed to destroy the SUCCESSES biro MK DONEL-DAGLAS construction projects!
from then the USA and NATO DO NOT HERE A GOOD AIRCRAFT !!!
Eto that flies today, they can't bring any coffee to Mk Donel Douglas level.
For the last 15 - 20 years RUSSIA HAS RELEASED ONLY ON THE MARKET THE NUMBER OF MODERN AIRCRAFT THAT THE WEIGHT OF THE WORLD HAS NOT BEEN SUCCESSFUL !!!
SU30, SU 30SM, SU35S, SU57, MiG 29M2, Mig 35, Superjet, MS 21, BE 200, project 969 with China, helicopters, etc. .......
So PRIZHOK IN THE MOST ADVANCED TECHNOLOGIES OF AIRCRAFT BUILDING FOR A COUNTRY WITH 150 MILLION POPULATIONS IS SIMPLY UNCERTAINABLE !!!
Europe is not up to its knees, and the United States looks up in Russia !!!
ALL THESE PEOPLE ARE IN THE INDUSTRY OF HEROIES, AND THE STATE (Tim near V.V. Putin) are themselves successful in the history of Russia from Ivan the Great !!!
Eats both problems and systemic ones, but all this is normal and SOLVABLE !!!
IF THE DRY SUCCESS PROTOTYPE SU 75 TO BE BROUGHT TO THE 2026-2027 SERIES THIS WILL BE CHESS FOR THE WORLD INDUSTRIAL AIRCRAFT BUILDING !!!
Live there and
LET'S BEFORE IN THE FUTURE !!!

[Wolf]

Sorry, I did not write about Jaak 130 and many others, but I thought about everything in the comments !!!

[Dim Dimych_2]

Who knows how much bobble was cut for a new dviglo for su-57 ?? and when it will be done, otherwise only one said

[Alecsandr]

So what, this surrogate will never see the light of day

[Falcon iba]

The more this PR hype unfolds around the chess Su-75, the more the confidence matures that all this is a bloated company and will end up in nothing. The MiG-35 is a ready-made aircraft, you can work with it. And Checkmate is a mirage in the desert, and the more advertisements around it, the more doubts. What is professionally done is advertising promotion ...

[hostel]

Sukhoi's monopoly can be very harmful to the state. Two KBs are a must.

[Cyril2021]

The MiG continues to re-arrange the obsolete technologies available to it on the basis of two propulsion concepts, and in this sense it runs in a vicious circle, while the SU is trying to meet aviation demand, and even claim to create a product of a trendsetter. The F16 is the most widely used aircraft, the F-35 is following in its footsteps - both in the concept of a single-engine light fighter-bomber. Again, we have the MiG 21, the most massive military aircraft of the USSR era. Well, what are the prospects for an obsolete MiG 35 aircraft stuffed with electronics - right, no ...

[Sirocco]

I didn't get something wrong, why does the supposedly Russian plane have such a strange name in a foreign language? Aren't we already living in Russia?