Russian tanks from an alternative reality

96
Russian tanks from an alternative reality
Who said this, and most importantly, proved that the first Russian tank could not resemble this one from the movie "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade"?

And God saw everything that He had created, and, behold, it was very good.
Genesis 1: 31

Tanks alternative stories. Of course, history does not know the subjunctive mood. But why not dream a little sometimes? Well, let's say, you can't imagine that instead of a completely stupid "Tsar-tank" Russian engineers managed to create their own steam tank, and most importantly - to seduce it with the current model of the "Tsar-Father" himself ?!

Birth of an idea


The news of the new armored vehicle, created in England, did not go unnoticed in Russia. Analysis of the information received showed that the British "tanks" really surpass all existing land vehicles. Even the Austin-Kegresse half-tracked armored vehicles, the pride of the Russian army, cannot so successfully overcome trenches and craters, and break barbed wire obstacles.




In 1914, British magazines, one after another, posted images of such strange large-wheeled combat vehicles. Three wheels freely breaking brick fences, three two-gun turrets, two machine-gun turrets for self-defense, a wheelhouse like a ship's ... This is how one English author saw a promising land battle "ship"

The officers of the General Staff analyzed the options for using such machines and came to the conclusion that the tanks are capable of providing a quick breakthrough of the enemy's first line of defense with minimal losses. According to calculations, it turned out that even a few dozen machines, concentrated at the forefront of the main attack, would guarantee the success of the operation. According to these calculations, it turned out that the "tank" should have a gun with a caliber of at least three inches, with a high rate of fire and good ballistics, as well as several machine guns. The frontal armor was supposed to withstand the German 75-mm grenade delivered "on strike" from a distance of half a mile, and the side projections - the burst of a 105-mm grenade at a distance of three sazhens. Due to the frequent defeat of the crews of armored vehicles by spray of lead through the viewing slots, it was decided to use periscopic devices for observation and sights.


But such armored vehicles during the First World War were deservedly called the "Russian type of tank"

From idea to metal


Having estimated this and that, the military decided that 50 copies of "Russian tanks" would be enough to break through the front. For the design and construction, a working group was organized from specialists from the Izhora, Putilov and Kolomna steam locomotive plants, who had extensive experience in creating armored vehicles and armored trains. The money, having chipped off, was given by industrialists and the "bread kings" of the Volga region.

The English Mk I was taken as a basis. True, the Russian Empire did not produce gasoline engines of the required characteristics. However, the Putilovites, using the project of a steam engine for a crew boat, with the help of engineers from the Kolomna steam locomotive plant, turned it into a compact high-speed steam engine with a capacity of 60 l / s. True, his water-tube steam boiler with a kerosene nozzle and forced blast had almost a kilometer of copper pipes. But it warmed up in just 15 minutes, after which it gave out high-temperature steam with a pressure of 12 atm.

It was decided to install two such steam engines and one boiler on the tank. This scheme made it possible to get rid of the gearbox, the turning mechanism and gave the tank the ability to turn in place, letting one track forward and the other back. The boiler was placed at the rear of the machine, and the steam engines were placed in caterpillar tracks, directly next to the drive wheels. The engineers had to tinker a lot with the steam condensers. As a result, they were placed in caterpillar tracks to the left and right of the boiler. To increase efficiency, they were equipped with fans driven by two steam turbines running on waste steam. However, this turned out to be insufficient, and when the boiler was operating at more than 60% of its capacity, the steam did not have time to condense. We solved the problem in a head-on way, placing two tanks for feed water in the front part, with a total volume of about 500 liters, where the residual steam was discharged!


Steam, and even a flamethrower tank at the same time was created in the United States!

"Cannon cart"


Many military experts considered the "tank" as a "carriage for machine guns" and suggested equipping it with a whole battery of machine guns. However, the opinion prevailed that the main weapons The "tenka" should be cannons. And not two, like the British, but three! Two in sponsons, like on Mk I, and the third one is upstairs in a rotating turret! True, the three-inch field gun did not fit because of the long recoil length and the piston lock, which reduced the rate of fire, and the mountain gun had low ballistics, so for the tower they took a shortened Lender anti-aircraft gun with a semi-automatic wedge breech, which had both good ballistics and a high rate of fire, and in sponsors supplied 47-mm Hotchkiss cannons taken from old destroyers.


Similar to the British "diamonds", it was tested, demonstrated in parades, it was often photographed, but even after the United States entered the war, it did not participate in hostilities.

“Shaking? Doesn't shake! "


From England it was reported that the British "tanks" because of the rigid attachment of the road wheels shakes violently on the move. However, due to its complexity, they did not dare to make an elastic suspension on the first Russian serial "tank". They converged on locked bogies, united by balancers, like the undercarriage of heavy portal cranes. Taking into account the design maximum speed on the highway, equal to eight miles per hour, such a chassis was considered quite sufficient.


Project only


By the way, the three-wheeled scheme at that time was popular not only among those who wrote about three-wheeled tanks in English magazines, but also among German designers who also created the three-wheeled tank "Treffasvagen". But he had a gasoline engine. And ... maybe someone knows where his "front" is?

"Russian rhombus"


Outwardly, the tanks strongly resembled British ones: the same rhombic tracked contour, the location of the weapons in sponsons, and low speed. The combat weight was kept at the level of 25 tons. The hull was made of armor plates with a thickness of 8,3-12,7 mm with additional overlays on the frontal parts, resulting in a total thickness of 33,7 mm. The driver had two periscopes with silvered mirrors. On both sides of it were water tanks. In the fighting compartment, the weapons were placed in two tiers: in the tower at the top and two sponsons at the bottom. An armored door was located on the hull just behind the sponson on the left. The steam boiler with a chimney and the mechanic's place were located behind the fighting compartment, and the mechanic had his own control drives and, if necessary, could take control when reversing. A fuel tank for 110 pounds of kerosene was also installed in the aft part of the hull, and there were also two oil tanks for eight pounds of castor oil each.


It could well have a steam engine and this heavy tank ...

An encouraging result!


Already at the first tests of the new vehicles it became clear that the "Russian tanks" are easy to operate, maneuverable enough, have a high tactical speed, and at speeds up to 5 versts per hour they make no more noise than a regular car, which allowed the crew to talk tolerably during the battle. ... The reserves of fuel and water were enough for 30 versts in a straight line. And the well thought-out placement of components and assemblies, a spacious fighting compartment and the presence of a suspension provided the crew with much more comfortable living conditions compared to the English "tanks". The superiority in armament could not be said, as well as its favorable location, which allowed a crew of eight people to easily create a high density of fire in all directions.

Russian tenki start and win!


All 50 "tanks" did not have time to prepare for the offensive - only 32, but they considered that there would be enough of them. We agreed to use them simultaneously with the British, and with God's help they launched an offensive in the direction of Lutsk. Artillery preparation lasted from 3 a.m. on June 3 to 9 a.m. on June 5, which had not yet happened in the practice of the Russian army. The forward fortifications built by the Austrians were destroyed, after which "tanks" were thrown into action to break through the second line of defense. Tilting in craters and trenches, they, nevertheless, uncontrollably moved forward, shooting machine-gun nests from guns and crushing the dugouts with caterpillars. The front was broken through 25 versts in depth with minimal losses. Well, their psychological impact turned out to be so great that many Austrian (not to mention Czech and Slovak units) surrendered to a single "tenk", as soon as he approached their positions. True, it turned out that it was only possible to deliver fuel to the "tanks" by carts, however, during the night, both delivery and refueling of the cars were carried out, and in the morning the offensive resumed, and thanks to the presence of three guns, the "tanks" independently suppressed the German batteries put up against them. literally pelting them with a hail of shells.


Such a "Russian tank" could be quite. And, by the way, it is completely incomprehensible why the first English "tank" did not become just like that. Three cannons - two in sponsons and one in the turret in the front of the hull, because that's what they ask for


A comfortable and powerful car could have turned out, to be sure!

On June 24, an artillery preparation of the Anglo-French armies began on the Somme River, which lasted seven days, after which on July 1 the Allies launched an offensive. Now the front was broken not only in the south, but also in the west. Austria-Hungary requested an armistice, then Turkey joined it, and thus the powers of the Triple Alliance were defeated! As a result, revolutions never broke out either in Russia, or in Germany, or in Austria-Hungary, although, yes, over time, the laws of economic development inexorably led them all to integrate into a single economic union - the United States of Europe!

PS Color illustrations by A. Sheps.
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96 comments
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  1. +15
    28 July 2021 04: 56
    Hmm what.
    Steam, wood, copper pipes, a tank, a steam boiler ... the United States of Europe ... what a wonderful day today.
    No Vyacheslav, my imagination is not capable of this. hi
    But I read it with great interest.
    1. +19
      28 July 2021 05: 10
      Curiously, “history does not know the word if.” This is probably for the best if you look at the modern “united states of Europe” with their tolerance and everything else ..
      1. +13
        28 July 2021 05: 23
        Quote: SERGE ANT
        Curiously, “history does not know the word if.” This is probably for the best if you look at the modern “united states of Europe” with their tolerance and everything else ..

        Let's better talk about tanks!
        Vyacheslav Olegovich, thank you, I read it with sincere pleasure, as if I opened a new page of your new books!
        A. Sheps's illustrations are amazing, convey our admiration to him!
        Oh, not in vain Emelya went to the "battle oven" to get married !!!
        Best regards, good day everyone !!!
        1. +13
          28 July 2021 05: 35
          With pleasure, it remains to understand what kind of tanks. Besides the American one (though this one drove, even if it didn't fight), there is nothing to talk about - projects and drawings.
          1. +9
            28 July 2021 05: 41
            Quote: SERGE ANT
            With pleasure, it remains to understand what kind of tanks. Besides the American one (though this one drove, even if it didn't fight), there is nothing to talk about - projects and drawings.

            The author also offers to talk about "paper" !!! hi
            P.S. A “computer-free, smartphone-free” childhood, when it was possible to dream and fantasize in words and thoughts !!!
            "And the tank has three wheels and so much fluff" laughing
        2. +3
          28 July 2021 05: 53
          Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
          A. Sheps's illustrations are amazing

          As well as the very presentation of the "tank breakthrough"! Bravo! drinks
          1. +6
            28 July 2021 06: 01
            Well thank you, Vladimir! Now, with a clear conscience, you can go to the dacha, harvest and water ...
            1. +7
              28 July 2021 06: 07
              I really respect all mechanics.
              I'm a mechanical man, I'm a tinsmith, a working bone,
              1. +4
                28 July 2021 11: 04
                Then, for the sake of pleasure, you can easily make a Stirling engine out of tin boxes - to delight yourself, your children, and your grandchildren!
                1. +4
                  28 July 2021 14: 56
                  Quote: kalibr
                  for pleasure

                  This is not me, this is Ivan Karjakin, "Two comrades served" ... I am more in Morse code, a soldering iron, and now a telephone and a computer .... And thanks for your trust! hi It was necessary to put in quotes ...
        3. +4
          28 July 2021 05: 59
          Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
          as if I opened a new page of your new books!

          The way it is! Until it comes out ... and here - here it is!
    2. +4
      28 July 2021 05: 58
      I'm glad you liked it. It is precisely such articles that develop it!
    3. +2
      28 July 2021 06: 40
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Steam, firewood, copper pipes, tank, steam boiler

      Well, what? It's in Russian! Bath on a wheel ... caterpillars! I don’t know how to fight; but you can wash yourself ... and then a beer! drinks
    4. +6
      28 July 2021 06: 53
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Steam, wood, copper pipes, tank, steam boiler ...
      No Vyacheslav, my imagination is not capable of this.

      And in vain, you are our fancy! This is not such a fantasy!





      ENGLISH RAILLESS ARMORED TRAINS at the beginning of the twentieth century!
      1. +6
        28 July 2021 11: 05
        Quote: Nikolaevich I
        ENGLISH RAILLESS ARMORED TRAINS at the beginning of the twentieth century!

        There will be a separate article about this train!
        1. +5
          28 July 2021 13: 19
          Vyacheslav, hello and thank you! smile
          At first I missed the alternative sho, when I was awake. laughing What kind of steam tanks in the Russian army, what kind of offensive, what kind of breakthrough ?! Then I figured it out. It's funny, of course, and I would like to continue. good
          And in general, human thought did not sleep. fellow

          1. +4
            28 July 2021 16: 01
            Quote: Sea Cat
            It's funny, of course, and I would like to continue.

            I'm glad you liked it. There will be a continuation, but not about tanks ... But no less interesting ... It is already ready.
            1. +2
              28 July 2021 16: 06
              This makes me happy. smile
              1. +3
                28 July 2021 16: 49
                Quote: Sea Cat
                This makes me happy.

                And already laid out-ha-ha!
                1. +3
                  28 July 2021 17: 14
                  And where, I have not found.
                  1. +3
                    28 July 2021 18: 48
                    It was posted for moderation and has not yet seen the light. Will be. She is the 5th in a row on moderation.
  2. +5
    28 July 2021 05: 43
    It's almost steam-punk already. Quite short but curious and interesting hi
    1. +15
      28 July 2021 06: 11
      We know about the German project "Iron Kaput". Now it's the turn of the "Russian ...." project.
  3. +7
    28 July 2021 05: 58
    Article - offset!
    I love steampunk.
    And crocodile tanks too.
    1. +6
      28 July 2021 13: 25
      I love steampunk.


      Well then steampunk -- STIMTANK! laughing

  4. +10
    28 July 2021 06: 10
    And why is steam necessary? Then there were already diesel engines. It was possible to stick in the stirling. In general, the tower from the top, in that period of development, was far from an obvious decision.
  5. +6
    28 July 2021 06: 28
    Interesting. But it is doubtful about the "patronage of the grain kings." And the design would be larger if compared with the first English "rhombuses".
    And yet - why shorten the anti-aircraft gun if there was a 76,2 "anti-assault" model of 1910 used on the "Garford-Putilovets" armored vehicles?
    The gun was not required to shoot at 2 km and get into the "eye" of the enemy gunner of the anti-tank gun.
    And the 47 mm cannon in sponsons is rather weak in terms of the effect of HE shells. And the old destroyers also had 57mm guns ...
    But the weight. It is necessary to observe the required weight of the car !!!
    1. +4
      28 July 2021 10: 57
      And yet - why shorten the anti-aircraft gun if there was a 76,2 "anti-assault" model of 1910 used on the "Garford-Putilovets" armored vehicles?
      The gun was not required to shoot at 2 km and get into the "eye" of the enemy gunner of the anti-tank gun.
      And the 47 mm cannon in sponsons is rather weak in terms of the effect of HE shells.

      I agree, Alexey. It was General Filatov who disassembled this at his SNR training ground.
      And the old destroyers also had 57mm guns ...

      Filatov also rejected this caliber. Only the cannon seems to have been English. It had a devastating effect on the car with a rollback.
      In general, he headed the Armor Commission from 1915 to the Revolution. There were plans to purchase tanks. At first they wanted to buy "Schneiders", but then they shrewdly wanted to buy "Renault" - it seems, a machine-gun version. But - the revolution and subsequent events canceled this out.
      1. +1
        28 July 2021 11: 52
        Quote: Pane Kohanku
        Filatov also rejected this caliber. Only the cannon seems to have been English. It had a devastating effect on the car with a rollback.

        Kolomiets believes that the 1914-mm Nordenfeld coastal cannon was tested at the training ground of the Officer Rifle School in 57.
        3. The 57-mm rapid-fire cannon of the sea type (this is most likely a Nordenfeld cannon. - Author's note), due to its slight recoil, has too destructive effect on the car. In addition, its projectile differs little in action from the 47-mm projectile.
        © M. Kolomiets. Armor of the Russian army. Armored cars and armored trains in the First World War.

        However, for a coastal gun with a barrel length of 48 calibers, the large recoil force is not surprising.
        It is strange that the tests did not have the second 57-mm Nordenfeld cannon, adopted for service in Russia - a caponier cannon with a barrel length of 26 calibers. She should have had better rollback when fired due to the lower initial velocity of the projectile:
        The muzzle velocity of the grenade is 1266 ft. in sec. and 800 ft. in sec. for buckshot.

        For comparison, the Nordenfeld coastal gun:
        The muzzle velocity of the grenade is 1830 to 1840 ft. per second, shrapnel 1665 ft. in sec. and buckshot 800 ft. in sec.


        EMNIP, 57-mm caponier guns were still considered as an option for arming the BA, but all plans went to pieces, because the stocks of guns were lost along with the western fortresses.
        1. +6
          28 July 2021 12: 20
          Kolomiets believes that the 1914-mm Nordenfeld coastal cannon was tested at the training ground of the Officer Rifle School in 57.

          I have this book, but not at hand, and on the Internet to look for laziness. wink
          But you can congratulate me, Alexey! I ordered and bought this book. The price, of course, is the guard ...
      2. +2
        28 July 2021 16: 02
        Byada byada chagrin ...
        The error came out. The Russian destroyers did not have 57mm guns. Only 75 and 47mm. It was on Japanese, but made in Foggy Albion, 57mm Hotchkiss. recourse
        It was only after the Russo-Japanese War that they bought a batch of 57mm. And then the navy merged them into the army. The army was stored in Brest-Litovsk. On November 12, 1914, a warehouse with guns burned down!
        1. +1
          28 July 2021 17: 14
          On November 12, 1914, a warehouse with guns burned down!

          Exactly. It seems that this is how Kolomiets wrote.
          1. +3
            28 July 2021 18: 11
            The alternative was simple. Not to fence a "tank" on a steam engine, but to produce tractors like Allis Chalmers and "rivet" a Russian tank like "Akhtyrets" or "Ilya Muromets" in the scale required for the front!
            This is an alternative, so an alternative ...
            Where to make tractors, where to get materials, and so on ...
            And most importantly - where to get the workers. Smyshlenykh. Thinking in the manufacture and assembly of such a complex unit as a tractor.
            1. +3
              28 July 2021 22: 09
              Akhtyrets and Ilya are the same armored vehicle
              1. 0
                29 July 2021 07: 10
                Is there any confirmation of this?
                Usually it is indicated that 2 armored vehicles were manufactured.
                1. +4
                  29 July 2021 09: 16
                  Is there any confirmation of this?
                  Usually it is indicated that 2 armored vehicles were manufactured.

                  Alexey, there is. Vitaly is right. hi Apparently, Kolomiets wrote the first book without knowing all the information. There was only one armored vehicle, it just changed its names.
                  In this version of the book, published already in 20213 (I bought it in 2015), there is already one tractor.
                  1. +1
                    29 July 2021 10: 02
                    One, so one ...
                    1. +4
                      29 July 2021 10: 16
                      One, so one ...

                      Information about two tractors is taken by "Vika" from Kolomiyets' article of 1997. drinks
                      http://armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/WWII/tractor/bronetr1.php
                      Apparently, then he really did not possess all the materials. request
                      But in the 2013 book, the second tractor is no longer featured.
                      You yourself understand who typeset Wikipedia. drinks We here with Viktor Nikolaevich three days ago got into a conversation about the death of Catherine II. "Vika" writes - she died at 9.45 am. Anyone who typeset something like that simply did not read the word in the source "afternoon"... And she died at 9.45 evenings! So believe everything on the Internet ... hi
                2. +2
                  29 July 2021 11: 59
                  Kolomiets "Armor of the Russian Army", and others, was the one booked by Allison, under different names. If my memory serves me Colonel Gulkevich bought it for his own money.
              2. +2
                29 July 2021 09: 18
                Akhtyrets and Ilya are the same armored vehicle

                Vitaly, where is the model from? Everything is accurate, except for the cannon. It should be "short", and the model includes Putilov's "three-inch" model.
                1. +3
                  29 July 2021 12: 30
                  Central Museum of the Armed Forces Moscow, exhibition on the first floor.
                  1. +3
                    29 July 2021 12: 47
                    Central Museum of the Armed Forces Moscow, exhibition on the first floor.

                    Thank you! Unfortunately, I have never been there. EMNIP, Gulkevich suggested using such tractors on a massive scale, a number of them had to tow the 107-mm cannon.
                    In general, Viktor Poplavko was the first to use massively armored cars to break through the defense, he also developed the design of the machine, which, conventionally, can be called the first domestic armored personnel carrier - he booked the Jeffery truck.
                    1. +2
                      29 July 2021 14: 30
                      Gulkevich submitted a note to GAU on the reservation of Holt-type tractors for breaking through the defenses back in the spring of the 15th, just when the British were thinking about the bureau of land ships, in general, a sad story, active work there, tried a bunch of structures, our enthusiasts banged their heads against the wall. Alice-chalmes in the 15th had problems with orders, Holt got it all, they ordered 10 tractors, they cost 5000 Baku ones, a truck one and a half 800-1000, an all-wheel drive Jeffrey Quad 2800. At the same time, wheeled "steam" tractors were bought in Britain, which turned out to be Ge not very well, the caterpillar ones were ordered late, and by that time there was no free capacity, the West had zagreb everything, for us on the leftover principle.
                      1. +2
                        29 July 2021 15: 26
                        Some fought. And some made a clockwork toy and went to see the "Father-Imperator" !!!
                        And heavy weapons "ala-RGK" were dragged by horses.
                        Why "bast shoes" caterpillar tractors!
                        It is necessary to "search" for tractor drivers, mechanics, to buy fuel and lubricants and spare parts. Troubled!
                        And would there be enough guns for all the "armored tractor"? Question...
                      2. +1
                        29 July 2021 16: 54
                        Duc, compared with the obstinacy of the Germans, it is tolerable, the Britts had Chronsbury even in the 11th five tractors were in the army, and he offered to install a gun and partial booking on the tractor, the military turned out to be, and the designer had no money, he sold all the patents to Holt.
                        There is a restored short film on YouTube - the first ever commercial for Hronsbury tractors from 08 for Germany, this is the paradox of time, the enemy is the enemy, but business comes first. I recommend watching. I can't insert it into my smartphone.
                      3. 0
                        29 July 2021 17: 10
                        In 1908, they had not yet thought about the Great War. We were just beginning to prepare for it.
                        Krupp sold his guns to the Russian army - just a business !!!
                        Howitzers from Krupp and Schneider, a machine gun from an American Maxim, a revolver from a Belgian Nagant ...
        2. +1
          29 July 2021 10: 29
          Quote: hohol95
          It was only after the Russo-Japanese War that they bought a batch of 57mm. And then the navy merged them into the army.

          After that, the army ended up with three types of 57-mm guns: the ex-ship Hotchkiss, the coastal long-barreled Nordenfeld and the caponier short-barreled Nordenfeld. smile
    2. Alf
      +1
      28 July 2021 20: 14
      Quote: hohol95
      And the old destroyers also had 57mm guns ...

      As far as I remember, the RI destroyers did not have a 57-mm caliber, they were 47 and 75.
      1. +2
        28 July 2021 20: 39
        Yes, they "did not stand there." But after the Russian-Japanese batch of 57mm guns was purchased. They were on the destroyers of the types "Ukraine", "Finn", "Hunter," Horseman ". Training ship" Peter the Great ".
        And on transport ships.
        1. Alf
          +1
          28 July 2021 20: 43
          Quote: hohol95
          Yes, they "did not stand there." But after the Russian-Japanese batch of 57mm guns was purchased. They were on the destroyers of the types "Ukraine", "Finn", "Hunter," Horseman ". Training ship" Peter the Great ".
          And on transport ships.

          Thank you, I didn’t.
          1. +1
            28 July 2021 20: 48
            Perhaps these weapons were purchased before the war with the army and navy of Mikado. But in the war, neither the guns themselves, nor the ships for which they were purchased, did not take part.
            Maybe I'm wrong again. But for this it is necessary to revise the armament of all ships and ships used during that war.
            1. Alf
              +2
              28 July 2021 21: 01
              Quote: hohol95
              Perhaps these weapons were purchased before the war with the army and navy of Mikado.

              This is what Shirokorad is talking about.

              1. +1
                28 July 2021 21: 51
                Talking about what?
                The war began on February 9, 1904. Have you ordered the guns ??? In 1904. And there are 12 months in a year.
                With the beginning of the war, they got the opportunity to understand that 37 and 47mm guns are useless against a destroyer-sized ship.
                But at the same time, the already laid ships decided to "slightly" strengthen their armament and at the same time not "greatly" increase the initial cost of the ships under construction. And instead of two or three 75 or 102mm guns, we limited ourselves to one 75 and three or four 57mm guns. Subsequently replaced by several 102mm guns.
                1. Alf
                  +1
                  29 July 2021 18: 45
                  Quote: hohol95
                  Talking about what?

                  That these weapons are not of Russian origin.
                  1. +1
                    29 July 2021 19: 59
                    I just didn't get it! Became scattered.
                    Yes, these guns were bought even before the war for the armament of the Dobroflot cruisers.
                    We stood on the steamer "Ural".
                    Further down the Alexey RA branch, there are two more steamers.
                    1. Alf
                      0
                      29 July 2021 20: 02
                      Quote: hohol95
                      I just didn't get it! Became scattered.

                      Oh, figs, for this to apologize. hi
                      1. 0
                        29 July 2021 20: 15
                        Then on "mug" for mutual understanding !!! drinks
            2. +1
              29 July 2021 10: 41
              Quote: hohol95
              But in the war, neither the guns themselves, nor the ships for which they were purchased took part.
              Maybe I'm wrong again. But for this it is necessary to revise the armament of all ships and ships used during that war.

              I am tormented by vague doubts - was there not a 57-mm gun among the zoo of weapons that was purchased and installed on the VSKR RYAV? In "Gangut" there was a series of articles about the VKR, and it seems that a 57-mm caliber slipped there.
              1. +2
                29 July 2021 10: 59
                Five points!!!
                Steamship-cruiser "Ural" - 2x120; 4x76; 8x57mm.
                The Kane, Armstrong and Gotchkis weapons!
            3. +1
              29 July 2021 10: 53
              Exactly - they were. In Gangut # 35 in the article Mityukov N.V., Frifogel Z. "Liner with six names - auxiliary cruiser" Don "there is a list of purchased weapons:
              6 - 120 mm Schneider
              2 - 120 mm Hotchkiss
              8 - 76 mm Hotchkiss
              9 - 76 mm Flint
              18 - 57 mm Hotchkiss
              32 - 57 mm Flint
              Of the 50 purchased 57-mm guns, 32 were installed on the VSKR.
              In particular, VSKR "Don" received 2x120-mm, 5x76-mm and 8x57-mm. VSKR "Kuban" - 2x120 mm, 4x76 mm, 8x57 mm.
  6. +5
    28 July 2021 06: 46
    Wet dreams of "crystal bakers")
    1. Fat
      +3
      28 July 2021 09: 48
      Wet dreams of "crystal bakers")

      hi "Wet Dreams" is for Roman Zlotnikov ... He has created so many promonarchist fiction and alternatives, you are amazed, but it is very interesting to read.
      Vyacheslav Olegovich turned out very "tasty", read with pleasure Yes
  7. +9
    28 July 2021 07: 26
    The English Mk I was taken as a basis. True, the Russian Empire did not produce gasoline engines of the required characteristics. However, the Putilovites, using the project of a steam engine for a crew boat, with the help of engineers from the Kolomna steam locomotive plant, turned it into a compact high-speed steam engine with a capacity of 60 l / s. True, his water-tube steam boiler with a kerosene nozzle and forced blast had almost a kilometer of copper pipes. But it warmed up in just 15 minutes, after which it gave out high-temperature steam with a pressure of 12 atm.

    The engineers had to tinker a lot with the steam condensers. As a result, they were placed in caterpillar contours to the left and right of the boiler. To increase efficiency, they were equipped with fans driven by two steam turbines running on waste steam. However, this turned out to be insufficient, and when the boiler was operating at more than 60% of its capacity, the steam did not have time to condense. We solved the problem in a head-on way, placing two tanks for feed water in the front part, with a total volume of about 500 liters, where the residual steam was discharged!

    Why, Vyacheslav Olegovich, did you rate the Putilov and Kolomna engineers so low that they are designing a 60-horsepower steam engine for a tank with such efforts?
    Back in 1907, the Stanley brothers from the American Stanley Motor Carriage Company produced very compact steam engines for their steam cars, which developed power up to 125 horsepower.

    And they used a car radiator as a condenser.

    The 1911 Stanley Steamer was once the best-selling car in America.
    1. 0
      28 July 2021 21: 57
      Only a boiler with a pipe a couple of hundred meters long for ours will be heavy
  8. +11
    28 July 2021 07: 56
    Steam, and even a flamethrower tank at the same time was created in the United States!
    Similar to the British "diamonds", it was tested, demonstrated in parades, it was often photographed, but even after the United States entered the war, it did not participate in hostilities.

    In fairness, it should be noted that the Americans sent the tank to the front in 1918, moreover with great fanfare, to raise the morale of the allies. However, they did not dare to send them into battle - the forced steam engine with a capacity of 500 horsepower turned out to be very capricious.
    By the way, the creation of this tank was really "thrown off", only not the bread kings of the Volga region, but the bankers of Boston, since the construction of the tank cost $ 60. At today's prices - over a million dollars. For comparison, the most modern M000A1 SEP Abarms costs eight million.
  9. +10
    28 July 2021 07: 58
    The article is interesting. Somewhere I saw such a tank on the internet. Is he (male) ?:

    Was the transmission of torque like on a steam locomotive and did the turn / turn take place by supplying steam to the left / right cylinders?

    Balance carriages, if not sprung / spring-loaded, would not solve the shaking problem.
  10. +9
    28 July 2021 08: 15
    Good thing alternative history smile So many vivid impressions.
  11. +11
    28 July 2021 09: 18
    Russian engineers managed to create their own steam tank

    And its development.
    1. +3
      28 July 2021 11: 15
      This model was just made by a foreigner ...
  12. +11
    28 July 2021 10: 28
    Of course, history does not know the subjunctive mood. But why not dream a little sometimes?
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, if you really dream, "so do not deny yourself anything." In our case, it would be better instead of Nicholas II, there was a more gifted tsar, it would be possible for Russia to be more happy, including with tanks.
    Drank some dough and someone else's lobby, not born today. Here, there was a project not from an alternative history, a heavy tank by Vasily Dmitrievich Mendeleev (project 1911-1915), but who needs it, this is not Lebedenko's "tsar-tank" miracle.


    By the way, this tank was supposed to have a very real carburetor engine from a submarine with a capacity of 250 hp, which allowed the tank to accelerate on a solid road to 25 km / h.

    Also, speaking of the more relevant "alternative history", what would we have now, if the fools and traitors did not break up the Soviet Union? Maybe on Mars while apple trees would not bloom, but science and technology would flourish, there would be no one stronger than our army.
    1. +5
      28 July 2021 11: 12
      allowing the tank to accelerate on a solid road up to 25 km / h
      173 tons and 250 hp ??? 1.45 h.p. per ton turns out. And where could he accelerate like that? From Mount Ararat?
      With all due respect to Vasily Dmitrievich, this is not a real project. And considering that he could not shoot from the main caliber without sinking onto his "belly", it is difficult to call him a tank.
    2. -3
      28 July 2021 11: 17
      Quote: Per se.
      fools and traitors did not break up the Soviet Union

      As for the fools, it's clear. But who do you count as traitors?
      1. +7
        28 July 2021 11: 50
        Quote: kalibr
        But who do you count as traitors?
        Who, in your opinion, now corresponds to the concept of "renegades", can a real communist be a former? If directly to the USSR, then many of our Mikhail Sergeevich's actions can be attributed to betrayal, especially of three "communists" from Belovezhskaya Pushcha.
        1. +5
          28 July 2021 16: 08
          Oh, Sergei! You yourself are not sure of what you wrote, which is why you expressed yourself so carefully. Can be ... attributed ... to betrayal ... So far, for today, based on what we know for sure, only one can be attributed to betrayal. Silence of ALL marshals, generals and admirals, Budyonny, Voroshilov, Zhukov, Molotov ... and other ... delegates to the XX Congress of the CPSU. None of them stood up and said in response to Khrushchev's report that ... he ... was "wrong." We will not evaluate here and now - "right is wrong". Only their behavior ... now it is a direct betrayal of the Stalin case. Is not it so? Oh, did they believe Khrushchev? So maybe here Mikhail and the three communists knew what you do not know and acted in the interests of the country? The situation is very similar, by the way!
          1. +1
            29 July 2021 09: 08
            Quote: kalibr
            The situation is very similar, by the way!
            Khrushchev even knocked his shoe at the UN, most importantly, after his actions, the USSR did not collapse. About the trinity from Belovezhskaya Pushcha, a separate conversation, as well as about the ban on the CPSU by the "changed shoes" Mr. Yeltsin.
            Yes, Vyacheslav, Mikhail and three "communists" knew a lot and acted in the interests of the country, but not our country.
            However, now it is too late to "drink Borjomi" ", but conclusions must be drawn. In this regard, discussions about alternative options in technology, as well as history in general, train logic, benefit consciousness in future decisions.
            1. +1
              29 July 2021 10: 00
              Quote: Per se.
              In this regard, discussions about alternative options in technology, as well as history in general, train logic, benefit consciousness in future decisions.

              ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    3. +1
      28 July 2021 11: 17
      It was too heavy for 25 km / h!
      1. +5
        28 July 2021 12: 00
        Quote: kalibr
        was too heavy for 25 km / h!
        Vyacheslav Olegovich, as the saying goes, “I beg you,” this is when he writes about an alternative history! In general, there were only calculations where the tank had to pass 50 kilometers at one refueling at a maximum speed of 24,8 km / h on the road. Okay, let it be 6-7 kilometers per hour, for realism. In any case, it was Mendeleev's tank that could compete with the British. Moreover, according to many decisions, if they were realized, it would be one of the most powerful tanks in terms of armor protection and weapons. And, here you can already dream about simplifying the design and variations of modifications.
        1. +4
          28 July 2021 20: 00
          In any case, it was Mendeleev's tank that could compete with the British.

          He could not compete with anyone. He would not budge.
        2. +2
          28 July 2021 22: 03
          This is not a tank, but a self-propelled art. a coastal defense tower, this project was turned into a tank when the fashion for the USSR / Russia became the birthplace of elephants.
    4. +4
      28 July 2021 12: 01
      Quote: Per se.
      was a project not from an alternative history, a heavy tank by Vasily Dmitrievich Mendeleev

      Any project that has not been implemented should already be classified under the heading "alternative". Then Porokhovshchikov's "All-terrain vehicle" will go there too. Even without a tower, he was tested. The truth is more suited to the category of wedges.


      1. +4
        28 July 2021 12: 43
        Quote: NDR-791

        Any project that has not been implemented should already be classified under the heading "alternative". Then Porokhovshchikov's "All-terrain vehicle" will go there too. Even without a tower, he was tested. The truth is more suited to the category of wedges.



        Porokhovshchikov's idea of ​​a half-track vehicle was not new at that time. If I am not mistaken, in the early 1s there was a half-track Rolls-Royce in garage No. 1920, which was carried by V.I. Ulyanov-Lenin.
        The half-track layout includes pros and cons. The large area of ​​the supporting surface of the caterpillar, provides an increase in cross-country ability, in the half-track version it makes it difficult to turn. Decreasing the length of the supporting surface (track) and increasing the distance between the front wheels (steering) and the track unit improves handling but decreases flotation.
        The location of the steering wheels on the "Porokhovshchikov's all-terrain vehicle", in principle, should cause difficulties with turns on solid ground, and on off-road such an all-terrain vehicle will stubbornly shove forward only ...

        Kettenkraftrad Sd.Kfz. 2:

        We also added a function for controlling the on-board clutches, resulting in a combined control.

        For example, the ski / ski snowmobile layout diagram shows the distribution of the snowmobile load on the track and skis, giving flotation and handling.
        1. +2
          28 July 2021 13: 55
          Quote: Lynx2000
          If I am not mistaken, in garage # 1 in the early 1920s was a half-track Rolls-Royce, which was carried by V.I. Ulyanov-Lenin.

          Well, that's later. The all-terrain vehicle was already tested in 1915. The combination of a central track and side swivel wheels is not a snowmobile scheme itself?
          And Lenin was driven by the former tsarist Packard-Kegress with the Kegress half-track drive. Russo-Balt also produced this.

          And then, not only in the 20s, but until the end of the 30s, this topic was slowly dying.
      2. +2
        28 July 2021 16: 09
        About "All-terrain vehicle" all VRAKI, there was no armor, no turret. Find here my article about "Porokhovshchikov's tank" ... His real "tank" was completely different!
        1. 0
          29 July 2021 07: 21
          I know, I have known for a long time. But here is a phrase from your own article: Well, it could be so - then we have a model from an alternative history and why shouldn't it be?
          So we are now talking about alternative history. After all, if you really want to, then you can hi
          1. +1
            29 July 2021 07: 23
            Quote: NDR-791
            So we are now talking about alternative history. After all, if you really want to, then you can

            Oh, is this how you look at it? Sorry, I didn’t think about it. From this point of view, it seems to be "yes", but only in any case, such a machine will not tear the wire. Namely, this was required in the first place!
            1. 0
              29 July 2021 07: 26
              Quote: kalibr
              only in any case, such a machine will not tear the wire.

              Yes, it won't. But then there was a very real T-27 already in the amount of 3000 pieces. It didn't like wire either. And died naturally, mainly due to improper use.
              1. +1
                29 July 2021 10: 01
                Quote: NDR-791
                It didn't like wire either. And died naturally, mainly due to improper use.

                Why initially do what you don't need to do?
                1. +2
                  29 July 2021 10: 06
                  Quote: kalibr
                  Why initially do what you don't need to do?

                  Yes, I don’t know. You would ask the marshals of the revolution, but you won't ask. Maybe in some form and needed (intelligence, communications), but definitely not in the amount of 3000 pieces. It's like now giving an ATV to every infantryman wassat
  13. +7
    28 July 2021 10: 55
    Mark tanks are small enough - the turret cannot be installed due to the location of the engine in the center of the hull ...
  14. The comment was deleted.
  15. +1
    28 July 2021 13: 38
    As I understand it, Vyacheslav uses Russian "tanks" in May-June 16, instead of the Brusilov breakthrough. In this case, the question is: was the relief taken into account?
    1. 0
      28 July 2021 16: 10
      Quote: tacet
      In this case, the question is: was the relief taken into account?

      I don't know, I have not been to those places ...
  16. 0
    28 July 2021 17: 06
    But what about the tank of Nikolai Lebedenko ???
    He, too, could be ...
  17. +3
    28 July 2021 17: 23
    Amazing! Light fiction before work. And most importantly - no figures from American magazines.
  18. +2
    31 July 2021 23: 44
    And see the drawing of the British tank, no, no?



    Between the sponsons there is a motor actually.
  19. 0
    22 October 2021 13: 51
    The emergence of such a "shaitan-arba" would not change the general alignment of forces and there would not be any breakthroughs and strategic victories. Tanks in WWI did not play a big role and could not play, taking into account the technological realities. Even the field artillery, which the Germans had enough, and the low mobility and travel resource did not allow the tanks to become an effective means of breaking through the defensive lines, the depth of which was measured by many kilometers, coped well with the armor of the then tanks (it is unrealistic to increase due to weak engines).
    In short, fantasy for teenagers.

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