Indian press: Russia offers 5th generation fighter jet at the price of an attack drone

133

The Indian press is commenting on the presentation of a promising Russian fighter at the MAKS-2021 air show. At the same time, the main attention is paid to what price for the basic version of The Checkmate was indicated in Zhukovsky near Moscow. Recall that the announced price is $ 25-30 million, and for this price a fighter is offered with impressive configuration features, including a radar with AFAR, advanced communications equipment, an electronic warfare system, etc.

In the Indian media:



Russia is offering a fifth-generation fighter at a price that is lower than that of fourth-generation fighters. Moreover, Russia offers its promising aircraft at the price of a strike drone.

True, it is not entirely clear which strike drone is being compared with in this case. For example, the MQ-1 Predator is priced at around $ 5 million.

At the same time, it is added that by order in Russia, as it was announced during the presentation of The Checkmate, the fighter itself can be converted into a stealth drone. It can also act as an aviation control point for UAVs for a strike operation.

In the Indian press:

During the presentation, a statement was made that The Checkmate aircraft is capable of destroying fifth generation foreign-made fighters and is designed to withstand the use of 6th generation systems.

It is also noted that it is "practically invulnerable to foreign air defense systems."

Additionally, Indian experts are discussing what allows Russia to create a fifth-generation light fighter jet at such a low price. At the same time, some believe that the main role here is played by the use of exclusively Russian (domestic) technologies and materials - without expensive imports. Others are convinced that the quoted price is a bluff. At the same time, those who believe that Russia is bluffing the price of a promising fighter are based on the costs that India planned for the construction of its fifth generation aircraft of the AMCA project. However, the projects are also different.
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    1. +3
      23 July 2021 08: 59
      Maybe enough about the "skin of an unkilled bear" of the fifth generation ?!
      1. +20
        23 July 2021 09: 08
        Quote: prior
        Maybe enough about the "skin of an unkilled bear" of the fifth generation ?!

        In the context of India, this skin is still worth talking about.

        After all, if the Indians had thought well at one time, instead of their traditional songs and dances, and they would not have left the program for creating a 5th generation fighter, then each board would have cost them specifically, even cheaper.
        And all the insiders say that it was just about the development of a light fighter - the prototype of the Su-75.
        1. +15
          23 July 2021 09: 10
          It is easier to commit suicide than to negotiate with the Indians.
          1. +8
            23 July 2021 09: 24
            our business is to offer .... wink
          2. +2
            23 July 2021 11: 24
            It is difficult to negotiate with the Indians. After all, they communicate in the language of dance. Should we dance too?)
          3. +3
            23 July 2021 12: 38
            There is such a psychological phenomenon when they offer a good and necessary thing, but they ask for it inexpensively, they do not buy it, since doubts are gnawing, if it is good, then why is it so cheap?
        2. 0
          23 July 2021 09: 35
          that it was just about the development of a light fighter - the prototype of the Su-75.


          The FGFA program was launched in 2007, its main contractors were Sukhoi from the Russian side and Hindustan Aeronautics from the Indian side. The countries agreed to create a fifth generation fighter based on the Russian Su-57. Discontinued at the initiative of India in 2018. There was no light MFI there.
          And now, against the backdrop of confrontation with China, they will be friends with the United States. So most likely this "clearing" will get the F-35.
          Because it is now the only single engine and because only China is capable of repeating the F-35. For a simple reason - only he has enough money and industrial and scientific potential.
          1. 0
            23 July 2021 22: 58
            Considering how much the Americans have invested in the F 35 No China will be able to repeat this feat, because the green ones are required to rework the 35s again.
        3. -5
          23 July 2021 16: 24
          Hindus at one time thought well and thought: realizing that they were getting bullshit into the tridorog, they left the program.
          "And all the insiders," and the above article about the reaction of the Indian media, says only one thing: "a non-existent Russian 5th generation aircraft is cheaper than an American in series."
          But seriously, we are simply not able to create anything acceptable for the 5th generation now. Especially single-engine (although such an aircraft is needed and would be in demand): the existing engines of the AL-41F family are not designed for supersonic cruising (and the thrust is too small).
          1. +9
            23 July 2021 16: 44
            Several years ago it was "but seriously, Russia does not have the technology to build the Crimean bridge." Then there was "but seriously, Russia does not have the technology to create hypersonic weapons." Now the SU-57 has already been launched into serial production, and you say: "We are simply not able to create anything acceptable for the 5th generation now." Tell, like you, are not tired of constantly sitting in a puddle with such forecasts? No, I do not mind in any way, I even support this aspiration of yours, I just cannot understand what pleasure you yourself find in this?
            1. -10
              23 July 2021 17: 30
              Let's start from the end: Su-57 in the series ... in 1 copy. In the 2nd. The first one crashed. This is from 2018. The plane is 2,5 years old. This is the first thing. Secondly, the Su-57 is not a 5th generation aircraft. And he cannot become one under any conditions - he did not even think about it.
              Who is there and what said about the Crimean bridge, I do not know (I think if there are two banks and a lot of money, then the bridge can still be built: the Persians were still able to do that). The cost of this facility is 3,7 billion rubles, which is three times more expensive than similar foreign projects. Why this miracle was needed at all, I do not understand: there were a lot of problems with him and there were, and will be (he, by the way, still has not passed the load tests along the entire length. They are afraid, probably, he even "floats" without these tests. ).
              What is a hypersonic weapon in your understanding, I do not know. But, for example, hypersonic CRs were made in the 70-80s. last century (in the USSR: X-45, X-90 (ROC "80-85")). The USSR abandoned them as unnecessary (and primarily the Ministry of Defense (i.e. military)). There were similar projects in the USA (it is simply not a hunt to search, but not at hand). Technically, it is quite possible to recreate these 50-year-old projects. Even improve. I don't see much sense. Well, a cartoon to make, to please the grandfather of the bunker. To please you. To steal money for this business. Some sense is seen here. And the military man - not very much. In general, hypersonic weapons were made and put on stream exactly with the beginning of the space age. Here is how comrade. Gagarin was thrown into space. Just then. The fact is that the descent of the warhead to the target at the ICBM is approximately 21 km / h (how many swings are, count yourself. You went to school, didn't you?). And the warhead can even maneuver. Turns out...
              And yet, do not be rude: before you write something, try to understand the topic under discussion at least in general terms. Desirable - with your mind, and not from the articles of third-rate journalists and paid balabols.
              1. +8
                23 July 2021 17: 57
                Su-57 in serial production since December 2020. Learn materiel. The Su-57 is a 5th generation aircraft. Learn materiel. Three times more expensive than similar foreign projects? Can you clarify? Although unlikely :) The difference between an unguided hypersonic weapon that is not capable of maneuvering and a controlled hypersonic unit that is capable of this, in principle, do not you understand? Learn materiel. And you also read about ICBMs and their warheads, which fly towards the target along a ballistic trajectory with an altitude of hundreds of kilometers at apogee, and not in dense layers of the atmosphere, like the Vanguards. Anything will be more useful. Good luck in self-education.
                1. -6
                  23 July 2021 18: 43
                  For the poor, banned from Google: the Su-57 went into production since 2018 (it was planned in general since 2016). To be precise, from 08.02.2018/22.08.2018/1, it was on this day that the experimental combat operation of the aircraft began. And the contract for the supply of the first two production aircraft was signed on August 16, 06.08.2017, and 50 year and 11 days before that - August XNUMX, XNUMX, the last aircraft of the T-XNUMX-XNUMX experimental series took off (which flight I had the pleasure to observe) ...
                  Bridge between Mokao and the continent (Hong Kong-Zhuhai-Mokao). The main part of the bridge is 29,6 km long, including a 6,7 km underwater tunnel, a 22,9 km main bridge and three sections of cable-stayed bridges with spans ranging from 280 to 460 meters. The total length of the bridge structures is 55 km. The total cost is $ 20 billion. Length of 1 km = 363 million dollars Crimean bridge. The length of the bridges is 19 km (of which 11 km, that is, most of them, in contrast to the Chinese, are overland). The cost is 4 billion dollars (the error is higher, not 3,7 billion rubles, but 370). Can you calculate the cost of a kilometer or help?
                  Danyang-Kunshan Viaduct - 164,8 km (9 km above water). Cost - $ 1,46 billion
                  Once again, for the stupid ones: MIRVs (that's how it is called) can fly both along the trajectory set by the breeding unit and actively maneuver on their own. And they maneuver just in the atmosphere ...
                  1. +6
                    23 July 2021 18: 49
                    You seriously don’t understand the difference between VIADUK and a bridge over a strait with a very difficult bottom? An explanatory dictionary at least would be bought ..
                    1. -2
                      23 July 2021 18: 53
                      Viaduct (fr. Viaduc, comes from Latin via - road, path, duco - lead) - a bridge-type transport structure.
                      Young man, get ready for school (I see you are not doing very well).
                      1. +1
                        23 July 2021 18: 59
                        "... erected of stone, reinforced concrete or metal at the intersection of a road with a deep ravine, ravine, mountain gorge" "A bridge is an artificial structure erected across a river, lake or any other water obstacle." Congratulations. Now you know how a viaduct differs from a bridge.
                        Now I will take up your knowledge of arithmetic. The TOTAL length of the Hong Kong-Zhuhai-Mokao Bridge is 55 km, almost THREE times longer than that of the Crimean Bridge. The cost is 20 billion against 4, that is, FIVE times more than ours. Pull up arithmetic :)
                        1. -10
                          23 July 2021 19: 09
                          Sonny, get ready to school, or your mother will scold you.
                        2. +9
                          23 July 2021 19: 11
                          I love to lead trolls to clean water. You quickly run out of arguments and start like this :)
                        3. +2
                          24 July 2021 04: 21
                          Quote: Ladysten Gvidion
                          .. erected of stone, reinforced concrete or metal at the intersection of a road with a deep ravine, ravine, mountain gorge "" A bridge is an artificial structure erected across a river, lake or any other water obstacle. "Congratulations. Now you know how a viaduct differs from a bridge ...
                          Now I will take up your knowledge of arithmetic. The TOTAL length of the Hong Kong-Zhuhai-Mokao Bridge is 55 km, almost THREE times longer than that of the Crimean Bridge. The cost is 20 billion against 4, that is, FIVE times more than ours. Pull up arithmetic :)

                          Well, firstly, the central part of the Chinese bridge is cable-stayed, and not a simple truss, like at the Crimean bridge. Which is incomparably more expensive. And the height under the arch at the Chinese bridge is 90 meters, and at the Crimean one - 35. Which is also correspondingly more expensive. Secondly, the Chinese bridge has a 7-kilometer underwater section of the bridge, laid at a depth of 48 meters below the seabed. This tunnel alone will cost more than the entire Crimean bridge. And thirdly, the Chinese made two bulk islands along the bridge. The total cost estimate for the construction of the Chinese bridge is from 16 to 19 billion dollars. Therefore, it is difficult to compare here like "who built the most expensive" ... The class of products is different. Here, as it were, some made a "golden" thing, and others - "costume jewelry" ... Who made it "cheaper" is hard to say ...
                        4. +1
                          24 July 2021 05: 18
                          Quote: onstar9
                          Тas if, some made a "golden" thing, while others - "costume jewelry"... Who made it "cheaper" is hard to say ...

                          I would not be scattered with ideas about who made gold (from 14:00)

                          Now we can talk about Chinese jewelry, which "roams the expanses of Mars" and about Rogozin's gold of the "lunar program".
                          ==========
                          I dare to notice !!! The message DOES NOT CONCERN neither the Crimean bridge, nor hypersonic weapons, nor anything else. Purely in the text. Yes
                        5. 0
                          24 July 2021 10: 25
                          So there is nothing to compare completely different projects stupidly in terms of mileage, while making arithmetic mistakes, for which two are given in elementary school. It is then worth taking into account other criteria, for example, the muddy bottom, about which all our ears have been eaten, that it is impossible to build a bridge on it in principle. At first, this public yells for several years that it is physically impossible to build a bridge in such a place as the Kerch Strait. Then, they begin to shout that the project is simple, not like that of the Chinese, and too much money has been spent. And with hope they catch in the yellow press the wildest rumors that the bridge is about to collapse.
                        6. -1
                          25 July 2021 02: 39
                          Everything is much simpler there: we take and compare the length of the bridges and the cost (of all three). It is not difficult :).
                          That's why I sent this clown ... to school, as he drives various bullshit throughout the dialogue ...
                        7. +1
                          26 July 2021 13: 43
                          Yeah, why load pure brains with all sorts of difficulties, on what they build, for example, we just stupidly take and compare! :)
                          But even in this case, learn some arithmetic, 55 km for 20 lard, which you get cheaper (!) 19 km for 4 lard - this is a class!
                    2. +5
                      23 July 2021 22: 15
                      Quote: Ladysten Gvidion
                      You seriously don’t understand the difference between VIADUK and a bridge over a strait with a very difficult bottom? An explanatory dictionary at least would be bought ..

                      =======
                      Yes, he misunderstands, because he considers himself the smartest beloved, which is clearly not true! Well, he does not see the difference between hard (or even rocky and muddy sandy bottom!), Well, he does not reach him that a bridge across the sea strait is a priori more expensive than a land viaduct, because in addition to complex hydraulic engineering work, such a structure needs a very serious anti-corrosion protection!
                      Well, what can you do? request Here, as they say: "medicine is powerless! You cannot buy what God has not given in a pharmacy!"
                      drinks hi
                  2. +2
                    23 July 2021 22: 07
                    Quote: Astor-27
                    Once again, for the stupid ones: MIRVs (that's how it is called) can fly both along the trajectory set by the breeding unit and actively maneuver on their own. And they maneuver just in the atmosphere ...

                    =======
                    I'm sorry, what? Maneuvering in the atmosphere? belay fool At the moment, only "Vanguard" is capable of this ....
                    1. -2
                      26 July 2021 09: 36
                      Buy the encyclopedia for childhood and youth "Nuclear Nonproliferation: A Brief Encyclopedia" (ISBN 978-5-8243-1130-3. Authors, 2009. PIR Center, 2009. Russian Political Encyclopedia, 2009) from the Children's Book store. See the Front Section of Missile article and read it. If this is difficult (I immediately warn you: there are a lot of letters and smart words) - go to Google, find the "R-30 Bulava-30" and you cannot hold back a surprised groan: "The Bulava" is capable of carrying 6-10 warheads of 100— 150 kt individual guidance with the ability to maneuver in yaw and pitch. The total throw-in weight is 1150 kg ".
                      And keep picking your nose ...
                      And when did they appear?
                      But I don’t know, but I know for sure that in 1979 (under the USSR still), when the text of the SALT-2 treaty was agreed upon, they already existed: “if, after separation from the launch vehicle, maneuver and guidance of warheads at various aiming points are provided along independent trajectories with the help of structures that are installed on an autonomous deployment unit or on warheads and which are based on the use of electronic computers or other calculating machines, in combination with devices using jet, including rocket, engines or aerodynamic systems;
                      b) if the maneuver and guidance of warheads at different aiming points along trajectories independent of each other will be provided with the help of other structures that may be created in the future "(when developing formal definitions, the maneuvering units were said to be something existing).
                      1. -1
                        26 July 2021 13: 53
                        Quote: Astor-27
                        Buy in the store "Children's Book" an encyclopedia for childhood and adolescence "Nuclear Nonproliferation: A Brief Encyclopedia"

                        =======
                        It is clear in what literature you get "wise thoughts" !!! lol Try "Popular physics", master it, for a start, and then "sharpen your wit", you will be, "erudite" you are ours ..... laughing
                        1. -1
                          26 July 2021 14: 06
                          The young man is not a reader? Is the young man a writer?
                        2. -1
                          26 July 2021 14: 13
                          Oh, as ordered: https://topwar.ru/185310-varianty-poleta-boevyh-raketnyh-blokov-na-atmosfernom-uchastke-traektorii.html maneuvers request
              2. +3
                23 July 2021 21: 52
                Quote: Astor-27
                Secondly, the Su-57 is not a 5th generation aircraft. And he cannot become one under any conditions - he did not even think about it.

                =======
                Can you explain why such a hangover, you are carrying such nonsense? Only, for God's sake, do not pretend to be an aircraft designer! For such work, intelligence is needed! And it is just not observed!
                1. +4
                  24 July 2021 10: 29
                  Of course not! He, bastard, has super-maneuverability, and this is unacceptable for the 5th generation, because the Americans could not realize super-maneuverability in their 5th generation and just stupidly took it ... and removed it from the number of requirements for the 5th generation. So this is just the "ugly duckling" F-35 is not a full-fledged fifth generation.
                  1. 0
                    24 July 2021 19: 34
                    Quote: Ladysten Gvidion
                    Americans could not realize super-maneuverability on their 5th generation and just stupidly took .... and removed it from the requirements for the 5th generation. So this is just the "ugly duckling" F-35 is not a full-fledged fifth generation.

                    ========
                    Well, "there is a way for him" .... But as for me, let both the Su-57 and the new car "acquire" at least the 3rd, even the 2nd "generation" - the main thing is that they are "on level "! soldier
                2. -2
                  26 July 2021 06: 22
                  I explain.
                  Aircraft of the 5th generation are characterized by: general stealth - low ESR (effective scattering area), low visibility in the infrared range, passive onboard sensors; cruising at supersonic speed; the possibility of off-camera shooting (preferably at all distances), super-maneuverability (it is necessary to talk about it separately).
                  So, the Su-57 has external suspension units - 8 pieces (10 on the internal one), which significantly increases the RCS, i.e. aircraft visibility. And without external sling, it is undesirable to fly on it: short-range air-to-air missiles on internal nodes can only fit in an amount of 2 pieces, the same long-range missiles were originally planned to be placed on external sling nodes (for comparison: on the Su-27 missiles BB - up to 6 pieces (the main options for placing weapons - 4 BB missiles).
                  Su-57 has ordinary nozzles (F-35 - flat), which increases its visibility in the IR range.
                  The Indians, by the way, left the project, tk. realized that in terms of stealth, the plane "does not pull" (despite all the promises). The second reason for the exit was the claims to avionics: the radars and sensors (the SRS (i.e. the on-board computer) the Indians had to develop themselves).
                  Well, there is further on the little things: for example, the OLS on the Su-57 does not provide all-round visibility (neither the Americans nor we can refuse from the AFAR radar (i.e. the passivity of on-board systems is relative), but it will have to be turned off from time to time At this time, the Su-57 becomes blind in the rear hemisphere, with all the ensuing consequences (including the impossibility of firing out of view).
                  As for the numerous claims in the press that this is a 5th generation aircraft. These statements appeared about 5 years ago. And before that, everyone knew perfectly well that the PAK FA program was an attempt to modify the Su-47 (Sukhoi Design Bureau) and MiG-1.44 (RSK MiG) planes, the planes are good (the Su-47 was especially beautiful, in my opinion: only internal suspension, digital EDSU, widespread use of composites, pronounced stealth technology - this plane was simply aesthetically beautiful), but these are planes of the 80s of the last century ... the plane of the 20st century ...
                  On the other hand, it is necessary to note the strengths of the Su-57 (high thrust-to-weight ratio (albeit on 2 engines, instead of one)) and super-maneuverability (which the Americans abandoned).
                  Well, and besides, the Su-57 is, after all, a heavy fighter (it is not entirely correct to compare it with the F-35), in terms of the main indicators it loses to its "counterpart" F-22 (although the F-22 has its drawbacks ).
                  And I know all this from this: my father, now deceased, was connected all his life with the planes of the Sukhoi Design Bureau (he was the head of the technical bureau). And since he lived in a cottage (he inherited from his grandfather), colleagues at work gathered with him. And since childhood, I heard their conversations and discussions of planes (some planes and nothing but planes), first the Su-7B, then the Su-17, then the Su-27, then the Su-35. The last was the T-50 (however, they named all the planes by their indexes).
                  Generally speaking about any kind of wunderwaffe, and about discussions of who is the best (which people are very fond of doing, as a rule, not very distant), it should be said that the superiority-lag by 10-15% of the same species weapons does not play any role: it is leveled by the person who uses this weapon (the most important detail of the weapon is between our ears).
                  1. +1
                    26 July 2021 13: 40
                    Yeah :) The SU-57 has 10 internal and 8 external ones. On the F-35 there are only 4 internal and 6 external :) Of course, "it's completely different"! :)
                    PS Sorry. I forgot about your complicated relationship with arithmetic :)
                    1. -1
                      26 July 2021 14: 30
                      Nothing, I forgive fools a lot. Firstly, I wrote above that it is necessary to compare with the F-22, and not with the F-35. And secondly, on both aircraft (22/35), the external suspension nodes are removable, they are intended for the 22nd for the PTB, and the 35th only for use in low-intensity conflicts (the latter was specially stipulated). All this can be easily read in popular publications for young people. I recommend, for example, "Corner of the Sky" (http://www.airwar.ru/index.html). Develop on health.
                      1. 0
                        26 July 2021 15: 24
                        That is, the F-35 is not a 5th generation aircraft?
                        To compare an airplane for 30 lyams with an airplane for 150, which was taken out of production and which has no prospects (the US Air Force will soon withdraw them from service)? Yeah, schaz :)
                        1. 0
                          26 July 2021 15: 29
                          Young man, are you able to read? Or do you rush to write right away?
                        2. 0
                          26 July 2021 15: 30
                          Oh, those trolls. They cannot answer a simple question :)
                        3. 0
                          26 July 2021 15: 50
                          Are you sick, young man? Or more than one thought does not fit in your head? You started the conversation about the F-35, not me.
                          And what are the 30 lyamah talking about? The cost of an airplane that isn't there? Or some other? One Su-35, for example, costs the Chinese about 80 million dollars.
                          And "where did the fireballs come from" about decommissioning? From the Murzilka magazine? And yet, "soon" is this when?
                        4. 0
                          26 July 2021 17: 24
                          "One Su-35, for example, costs the Chinese about 80 million dollars."
                          Do not envy the incomes of our military-industrial complex :)
                          And there is no F-22. Truncated. don't make it anymore, so wonderful.
                        5. 0
                          26 July 2021 17: 27
                          I asked a question about its imminent removal from service in general.
                          Young man, do you have dyslexia? You would see a doctor.
                        6. 0
                          26 July 2021 17: 31
                          https://rg.ru/2021/05/13/nachalnik-shtaba-vvs-ssha-zaiavil-o-namerenii-izbavitsia-ot-f-22.html
                          The F-22 is the plane of the past. Humble yourself. It is not so bad, but its exploitation is so expensive that it has no future. Nobody except amers can afford him for the money, it is absurd to keep an anti-Papuan plane for that kind of money ... what saves him is that there is nothing to replace it with.
                        7. 0
                          26 July 2021 17: 37
                          Read the article on the link in the original. So, just in case.
                        8. 0
                          26 July 2021 17: 44
                          Quote: Ladysten Gvidion
                          That is, the F-35 is not a 5th generation aircraft?
                          To compare an airplane for 30 lyams with an airplane for 150, which was taken out of production and which has no prospects (the US Air Force will soon withdraw them from service)? Yeah, schaz :)

                          Are you a young man, do you even know what you are writing?
                          So F-35 or F-22?
                        9. 0
                          26 July 2021 15: 56
                          What is not clear? and the F-35 and F-22 go into battle without weapons at the external nodes (unless this is a battle with the Papuans, where countering aviation and air defense is not expected), even the beam holders themselves are dismantled. How to explain it more clearly, I already do not know.
                        10. 0
                          26 July 2021 17: 27
                          Right. With minimal ammunition, with the radars turned off ... and even then without any guarantee of invisibility. These are planes against the Papuans, without air defense and aviation. But anti-Papuan aircraft for 150 lard (and if you count the money for their development ...) The American aviation industry is incapable of more.
                        11. 0
                          26 July 2021 17: 29
                          It began ... "There is an elder in the garden, in Kiev there is an uncle."
                          Come back, young man, to the kindergarten - your teacher is already, go, she was searched.
                        12. 0
                          26 July 2021 17: 35
                          Go on, I said, I really love it when trolls run out of arguments and they get personal. It's fun :)
                          The bottom line is that the Americans have created the most expensive aircraft in history, which are effective in a war against an enemy without air defense and aviation. Well, of course, their production was curtailed, and to replace it, they created an almost equally expensive, but much worse, fighter of the sub-fifth generation - the F35. That's all. Now you can go to your Kiev :)
                        13. -1
                          26 July 2021 18: 00
                          Yes, ATP, I'm leaving immediately. I am impressed by your deep knowledge of the subject, your systemic views on the development of the Air Force and your ability to understand what you read. The remark about the arguments made me especially happy. The titanic mind is immediately visible. Tell the teacher how smart you are - she will probably give you candy.
                3. -2
                  26 July 2021 06: 25
                  We need to discuss something completely different. Our aviation industry is lagging behind (already by 15-20 years) in avionics and engines (less for the latter), i.e. according to those indicators that are called high technologies (our gliders are traditionally good - if not the best, then quite at the level). We must think about the lag (very soon the gap will become such that we simply will not be able to catch up). To reduce it, and not to build another wunderwolf for the amusement of fools and for the sake of embezzlers: there is the Su-35, which is good enough for the time being. So let it be, and the money can be used for more reasonable purposes.
                  1. 0
                    26 July 2021 13: 50
                    I sympathize with YOUR aviation industry, but these are already your problems :)
              3. +3
                23 July 2021 23: 05
                About paid balabols, you probably mean yourself in the form of Astor-27? As for the Su 57, you probably think you need to do a hundred like the Americans put a crude plane into production and then endlessly modify it, I'm talking about the F35. We have already heard about hypersound, and we know very well that the Americans are in terrible stress that they can’t do anything about it. Well, it's not even funny about a bridge floating somewhere and not passed the tests.
                1. 0
                  26 July 2021 13: 31
                  Guys, what kindergarten did you run away from? Come back - your teachers have been searched !!!
                  I don't know what they told you about hypersound and why the Americans are stressed there, I know something else: hypersonic CDs were developed back in the USSR in the late 70s. And the Department of Defense refused them for a very prosaic reason. And he did the right thing. And this reason has not been eliminated to this day. And it is not known when it will be eliminated (never with Rogozin).
              4. +1
                24 July 2021 00: 10
                The cost of this facility is 3,7 billion rubles, which is three times more expensive than similar foreign projects.

                Could it be about the Oakland-San Francisco bridge? They promised for 1100 lambaxes! As a result, there were more than 6 yarbucks. At the same time, due to substandard steel (well, what are you, it's only we have kickbacks and cuts), it constantly has to be fastened with staples.
          2. +3
            23 July 2021 21: 33
            Quote: Astor-27
            But seriously, we are simply not able to create anything acceptable for the 5th generation now.

            =======
            Chapaev, are you serious, or are you cleverly pretending to be ... simpletons? fool
            ------
            Quote: Astor-27
            existing engines of the AL-41F family are not designed for supersonic cruising

            ========
            belay Yah? Are they straightforward and not adapted? Justify please (do not be afraid - we all studied at school, and some and not only at school, so that - be bolder!) ...... laughing
            1. -1
              26 July 2021 14: 02
              Yes Easy.
              Compare the flight characteristics of the Su-57 and F-22. Let me remind you: weight (normal takeoff): 30 610/29 200. Engines, 2 pieces per snout for both. Row: 2 x 9/500 x 2.Row FR: 10 x 500/2 x 15.
              The non-afterburner flight speed of the F-22 is 1960 km / h (M = 1,82). Now the question is: how can the Su-57 support a supersonic afterburner flight? It weighs more, and the engines are weaker. Answer: and there should be another engine on it: Type 30. Which is not yet available (no, it seems to be there, but it still does not exist). That's when it will be (thrust 11 kgf / kg), that's when we will talk about cruising supersonic (by the way, the Indians were promised 000 X 2).
      2. +5
        23 July 2021 09: 34
        Quote: prior
        Maybe enough about the "skin of an unkilled bear" of the fifth generation ?!

        Why not? Why can't you trust ours? I remember many shouting that the Crimean bridge is Putin's wet fantasies, and there were so many jokes about cartoons. Only the bridge is ready and many cartoons have already become a reality. Or can only amerikosov yell about a super-super rocket?
      3. Maz
        +7
        23 July 2021 09: 48
        In general, it's great that he actually exists and appeared. Let it be in one exemplary instance for now. Look what a commotion arose immediately abroad. This is still the Chinese are keeping quiet for now. They digest, aim and decide. Europe has become quiet. In good time ,. A very timely machine. Go Russia!
        1. -3
          23 July 2021 11: 02
          In general, it's great that he actually exists and appeared. Let it be in one exemplary instance for now.
          Unfortunately, this is not a flight specimen yet. The maximum is for static tests. But most likely not even him. Now, if you rolled out to the presentation immediately flying. It would be a bomb of anger for the public concerned. And so, rather a firecracker.
          1. +2
            23 July 2021 14: 00
            They promised that this is already a flight exhibit and will take off in the 22nd year.
            1. 0
              23 July 2021 15: 15
              They promised that this is already a flight exhibit and will take off in the 22nd year.
              I'm all FOR, with all hands and feet. In this case, it is better to be deceived in a good way than to be happy and break off.
          2. 0
            23 July 2021 15: 55
            You at least listen to Slyusar, he told everything on this topic.
      4. +4
        23 July 2021 09: 51
        Maybe the price is indicated without a cut and a rollback. The latter also "confuses" India.
        1. -7
          23 July 2021 10: 34
          Great. "Evaluate" and "discuss" what is not. Yes good
          1. -1
            23 July 2021 16: 05
            It takes 10 years to create a fighter - if they say that it will take off in 2023, then the plane is almost ready, and yes Russia is currently one of two countries that can independently develop and produce crumpled generation fighters without the outside help of co-investors and participants in the creation of components and assemblies - the second USA and even then they had 35 more countries participating in the F 7 project as investors now Japan South Korea Turkey and India are trying to make such aircraft the EU, but the first five are likely to fail and only the EU can create such an aircraft - since in one these countries will not be able to stretch out the helmet; the competencies are not enough.
    2. +2
      23 July 2021 09: 02
      Most likely, they used the "American" system - the price of the plane is one, but the service and related "goods" .... And so the cost of the contract is wound up at times. After all, "and this is necessary ...", "and this ...", "and without this, in general, it will not take off ..."
      1. +2
        23 July 2021 09: 13
        Quote: Leader of the Redskins
        Most likely, they used the "American" system - the price of the plane is one, but the service and related "goods" .... And so the cost of the contract is wound up at times. After all, "and this is necessary ...", "and this ...", "and without this, in general, it will not take off ..."


        Have you attentively watched the presentation of the Su-75?

        There it was about a completely different approach, the complex - cheap plane-cheap service-low cost per flight hour
        1. -8
          23 July 2021 09: 53
          Quote: PiK
          Quote: Leader of the Redskins
          Most likely, they used the "American" system - the price of the plane is one, but the service and related "goods" .... And so the cost of the contract is wound up at times. After all, "and this is necessary ...", "and this ...", "and without this, in general, it will not take off ..."


          Have you attentively watched the presentation of the Su-75?

          There it was about a completely different approach, the complex - cheap plane-cheap service-low cost per flight hour

          A good plane cannot be cheap. For Americans, an F35 with a huge series costs 80 million
          1. +7
            23 July 2021 10: 15
            Quote: Pilat2009
            A good plane cannot be cheap. For Americans, an F35 with a huge series costs 80 million

            Throw away the "restaurant margin" for the Fu-35, "exposing" the real cost - what will be left of a "good plane"?
          2. +4
            23 July 2021 11: 09
            Quote: Pilat2009
            Good plane cannot be cheap. for Americans, a F35 with a huge batch costs 80 million

            Is he really that good?
          3. +3
            23 July 2021 13: 04
            A good plane cannot be cheap

            MiG-21, at one time cost the budget of the USSR no more expensive than BMP-1))))
            If you don't know, that's why you riveted so many of them.
          4. 0
            23 July 2021 18: 44
            We will collect it for rubles. MIG-35, for example, costs 1 billion rubles for our videoconferencing. This is an aircraft of the same class and two engines. Thirty million dollars is about two and a little more than a billion rubles. Quite a real price. Most likely even with a little wrapping for export.
          5. 0
            23 July 2021 23: 14
            Quote: Pilat2009
            Quote: PiK
            Quote: Leader of the Redskins
            Most likely, they used the "American" system - the price of the plane is one, but the service and related "goods" .... And so the cost of the contract is wound up at times. After all, "and this is necessary ...", "and this ...", "and without this, in general, it will not take off ..."


            Have you attentively watched the presentation of the Su-75?

            There it was about a completely different approach, the complex - cheap plane-cheap service-low cost per flight hour

            A good plane cannot be cheap. For Americans, an F35 with a huge series costs 80 million

            Who says the F35 is a good plane? If I were a good plane, I would not become massively joked due to systemic engine malfunctions, several greens are required to refine it again
    3. RMT
      +2
      23 July 2021 09: 03
      Russia offers, or rather represents, a fighter, but the conversation about the price will begin later, much later.
      1. 0
        23 July 2021 09: 11
        The price in $ is hardly directly related to normal pricing: c / b, development costs and profit in% ... ... all these parts are in rubles, and the ruble exchange rate floats. Plus, there are established prices in dollars for competitors: F16, F35, Grippen, J-10 .... MiG35S in dollars on the world market.
      2. +9
        23 July 2021 09: 25
        Quote: RMT
        Russia offers, or rather represents, a fighter, but the conversation about the price will begin later, much later.

        Even if we do not invest in the declared "corridor" of 25-30 million, it will still come out cheaper than "Grippen", "Eurofighter", "Raphael" with their price tags, which also belong to the previous 4th generation.

        In general, it's nice that we were able to surprise the world, now all that remains is to amaze it.
        1. +1
          23 July 2021 09: 42
          In general, it's nice that we were able to surprise the world, now all that remains is to amaze it.

          I agree with you.
          Separately, it is gratifying that this fighter will inflict a very tangible blow on CAATSA.
        2. 0
          23 July 2021 16: 25
          Quote: PiK
          it will still come out cheaper than "Grippen", "Eurofighter", "Raphael" with their price tags

          It remains to compare performance characteristics and filling
      3. 0
        24 July 2021 20: 58
        Quote: RMT
        Russia offers, or rather represents, a fighter, but the conversation about the price will begin later, much later.

        Well, yes, in the foreign market they sell at the market price, i.e. for as much as they buy. And the price can even predict in advance that it will be higher, declare lower in order to undermine competing foreign projects, for example, the same Indian.

        Again, the price can be announced for the basic configuration without an audio system and climate control)
        And the Arabs will definitely only take full stuffing, tuning and pumping, respectively, the price will be completely different.
    4. 0
      23 July 2021 09: 14
      Yesterday on the website Military Materials there was an article about the exercises in Egypt, they write that Rafal had our Su-35, as he wanted, it seems like the Rafal's electronic warfare system put out the Su-35 radar, it is interesting to know the thoughts of people who are more knowledgeable in these matters. Maybe it was not without forgery, paddling pools are masters of corruption schemes when snatching their weapons. If everything was fair, then I think this is a problem.
      1. +1
        23 July 2021 09: 17
        Quote: kapitan281271
        Yesterday, there was an article on the Military Materials website about the exercises in Egypt, they write that Rafal had our Su-35, as he wanted, like the Rafal's electronic warfare system put out the Su-35 radar

        And who is actually to blame for the Egyptians that their Su-35s are not equipped with an electronic warfare system, which would have extinguished the French Thales at once?
        They would have removed all weapons from our Sushki, making targets out of them.
        1. +6
          23 July 2021 10: 03
          I wonder why the Indians wrote about this .. and more .. why have they still put AFAR on the Su-35?
      2. +7
        23 July 2021 09: 41
        Kind Constantin. Can you see where the reprint of the article comes from? Indian edition. Even if we assume that this is true, then at least all the media in France would trumpet about it.
      3. +7
        23 July 2021 10: 08
        Already wrote that this is a fake, tk. the original source does not exist. But, even if this is so, it will be beneficial, sobering may come that the PFAR, even such as Irbis, is already outdated. "Squirrel" should be much more noise-immune in principle.
      4. +4
        23 July 2021 11: 40
        Egypt does not have su-35, so the fake was probably planted in India to justify the raphal scam
      5. +1
        23 July 2021 18: 56
        Did these planes (su-35) even manage to get to Egypt? There was not a single message that the planes were in Egypt. The contract was signed only last year, and you still need to train pilots, technicians, etc.
        Perhaps something was but with the participation of the Mig-29.
    5. -4
      23 July 2021 09: 20
      Indian press: Russia offers 5th generation fighter jet at the price of an attack drone
      ... Who, to whom, what offers ???
      Selling PLANS, PROJECTS, this is not our prerogative .... we have to wait, boom to see.
      1. +6
        23 July 2021 09: 23
        This is a modern game, we are also mastering it, but yes, time will tell everything ...
        1. +4
          23 July 2021 09: 40
          The conditions of this game were created by the Naglo-Saxons, for themselves ... you have to study, study a lot and break through many different barriers.
          1. +4
            23 July 2021 11: 23
            It is always necessary to study, and their method must be adjusted to fit your conditions, otherwise it is impossible ...
            1. +2
              23 July 2021 12: 18
              No, no, THEIR methods can become a turning point for us to not at all good.
              Break their "game", insert your own rules and preferences.
              Folk wisdom says that it is NOT POSSIBLE to beat a cheat by trying to play by his rules. Only by breaking everything, breaking the game, the rules of the sharper, you can stay with your own people, at least.
              1. +4
                23 July 2021 12: 20
                Of course, it's better with a crowbar and no problems, but you can always do it ...
                1. +1
                  23 July 2021 12: 31
                  As a rule, from many sides they say that it is IMPOSSIBLE ... only there are those who have not heard or did not believe, break everything in pieces and in half.
    6. +4
      23 July 2021 09: 21
      For those who have doubts, the price can be doubled at once - they will calm down "everything without a catch" and buy more than they wanted.
    7. +3
      23 July 2021 09: 22
      At the same time, it is added that by order in Russia, as it was announced during the presentation of The Checkmate, the fighter itself can be converted into a stealth drone. It can also act as an aviation control point for UAVs for a strike operation.


      We asked everyone a puzzle and rightly so ...
      1. 0
        23 July 2021 09: 26
        transformer.........
        1. +2
          23 July 2021 09: 27
          Yeah, Rubik's cube, let them train ...
    8. +11
      23 July 2021 09: 29
      and these are all the same? "hare hare krsna" ?? they discuss everything and everyone.
      - it would be better to talk about "Tejas" and your "Arjnun")
      1. +3
        23 July 2021 09: 46
        With the declared price of the Su-75, Tejas has almost no chance.
        If only some Indian miracle could save him.
        Or the Su-75 in India will be renamed Tejas. bully
        1. +10
          23 July 2021 09: 54
          An analysis carried out by Indian experts showed that the new LCA Tejas multipurpose fighter in its main characteristics should be close to the MiG-21bis aircraft, differing from the latter in an increased range, an expanded composition of weapons and new avionics, which provides the ability to strike both air and ground targets.
    9. 0
      23 July 2021 09: 30
      Some kind of massive psychosis and faith in the word ... There is no plane yet, there is only a plastic model and an unknown digital projection, a bunch of fairy tales from Rostec about a super wafer that won all the wunder for a couple of pies in the price ...
      1. 0
        23 July 2021 10: 31
        mass psychosis and faith in the word.


        Very accurately ... Especially if you remember how it sometimes happens when creating airplanes. Pavel Osipovich Sukhoi had the courage to throw it into the trash bin and remake the finished one !!!! Su-27. Just not to get the usual mediocre car for the country. But no one pulled him by the ears, except for his conscience. If he were alive, he would have dispersed this pack of empty-throats. And rather - they would have devoured him.
    10. +2
      23 July 2021 09: 43
      Russia offers a fifth generation fighter at a price lower than that of fourth generation fighters. Moreover, Russia offers its promising aircraft at the price of an attack drone.

      It's OK. Dealers dopami will finish the price up to the level.
      1. 0
        23 July 2021 09: 48
        Especially when US vassals apply their F35 to some client ...
        1. 0
          23 July 2021 10: 08
          Are you talking about Iran? wink
          1. +2
            23 July 2021 10: 17
            There are many clients ... Iran, China, North Korea, Greece against Turkey, Poland against someone ... when there is a dominance of weapons on the one hand, there are a lot of temptations.
            1. 0
              23 July 2021 10: 20
              From your list, in my opinion, only Iran is real. hi
              1. +2
                23 July 2021 10: 25
                In the short term, yes. Israel and the United States already have a fleet of F35s, they have all the accompanying tankers, scouts, AWACS ........ one minus - IRan has an MRBM that can fly in response in the required amount to Israeli and US facilities in the region ... And other F35 operators have not yet received the required amount of F35 ...
                1. 0
                  23 July 2021 10: 38
                  Israel is more afraid of the appearance of nuclear weapons in Iran than the MRBM. Otherwise I agree with you. hi
                  1. +1
                    23 July 2021 12: 33
                    But every year Iran increases the quantity and quality of MRBMs, respectively, reduces dependence on nuclear weapons ...
                    1. 0
                      23 July 2021 13: 35
                      I do not argue that the MRBM is better than without them, but the MRBM with nuclear weapons is a guarantee of sovereignty, IMHO, but Israel will be able to knock down the MRBM. hi
                      1. +1
                        23 July 2021 13: 50
                        In general, yes, but nuclear weapons are good when total destruction threatens ... and from dosed "injections" one cannot do without precise conventional weapons. This also applies to us, but the Russian Federation has almost solved this problem.
                        1. 0
                          23 July 2021 13: 52
                          Here I agree with you. drinks
    11. +1
      23 July 2021 09: 48
      Quote: kapitan281271
      write that Rafal had our Su-35, as he wanted, it seems like Rafal's electronic warfare system put out the Su-35 radar,

      What does this have to do with an airplane? This is information about radars and REB systems.
      I doubt that there is such a radar that a suitable REB system will not be able to extinguish.
      All the same, the radar receives reflections from the target and direct from the REB systems.
      1. +2
        23 July 2021 10: 18
        Where did it happen? I would like to know? China is the only operator of Su35S for now ... Egypt will soon become, where, by the way, there is also Rafal.
        1. 0
          23 July 2021 19: 13
          This is a fake, as they write about Egypt, where the su-35 is not yet in nature.
    12. 0
      23 July 2021 09: 48
      Quote: PiK
      Quote: prior
      Maybe enough about the "skin of an unkilled bear" of the fifth generation ?!

      In the context of India, this skin is still worth talking about.

      After all, if the Indians had thought well in their time, instead of their traditional songs and dances.

      Yes, that's for sure, and I would also advise them not to flirt with the Anglo-Saxons by buying their weapons and remember about the help we provided them.
    13. +1
      23 July 2021 10: 12
      Moreover, for this price, a fighter with impressive configuration features is offered, including a radar with AFAR, advanced communications equipment, an electronic warfare system, etc.


      According to the announcement, a so-called "basic version" is offered for this price of about $ 30 million. No one said that it included AFAR, advanced communications equipment, an electronic warfare system, etc.
      1. 0
        23 July 2021 16: 13
        Considering that the aircraft has an already created and used engine, its price will be much cheaper than similar Western models - AFAR is included in the standard package as equipment for communication and electronic warfare. In fact, the price for everything in the amount of 2.1 billion rubles plus the manufacturer's margin is quite profitable.
        1. 0
          23 July 2021 16: 23
          Grippen designed and built a pre-designed and used engine, but this did not lead to a significant price reduction.
          Moreover, this engine is actually not yet mass-produced, like AFAR.

          And in such projects (no matter Russian American European ones), the initially planned price always increases, and time shifts to the right.
          Therefore, he doubts the specified timeframe - but if the T-75 costs up to $ 60 million and appears in 2030, it will still have great success with great export potential.
          1. 0
            24 July 2021 16: 48
            This aircraft was created with the same components and assemblies and materials as the Su 57 - hence the cheapness, since everything described above is already in mass production except for some new elements.
    14. +2
      23 July 2021 10: 22
      Very small print: "The offer is not an offer."
    15. +2
      23 July 2021 10: 44
      Wanted to know the details, but Indians link to breakingdefense.com. And the site itself is nothing like that. There are articles about the integration of our planes and rafals into a single system. And about expanding cooperation with the French. And yes, technically, in real life conditions, I doubt that this is possible.
      Quote: kapitan281271
      Yesterday on the website Military Materials there was an article about the exercises in Egypt, they write that Rafal had our Su-35, as he wanted, it seems like the Rafal's electronic warfare system put out the Su-35 radar, it is interesting to know the thoughts of people who are more knowledgeable in these matters. Maybe it was not without forgery, paddling pools are masters of corruption schemes when snatching their weapons. If everything was fair, then I think this is a problem.
    16. -4
      23 July 2021 11: 25
      and why did everyone suddenly believe that the price of 30 and even 60M is at least somehow real? the su-57 simply cannot be cheaper than the su-30SMI, which costs 86M for India and 55M for the RF Aerospace Forces, the radar of the new aircraft is clearly more expensive, the avionics too, the engine, although one, but the new one will not be much cheaper than two al -41f-s1 (there will probably be product 30), the glider of the thirty has already been run in, it has been serially produced and has been produced for a long time (and taking into account the relationship with the Su-27, a very long time ago) is also clearly cheaper than the new SU-75 glider (for which it is still necessary to develop and produce all are adjusted), since su-75 can be cheaper? for a price of 25-30 lyam you can produce one Gulf Stream-280 ... but if they said that chess would cost 5M, everyone would also believe it?
      1. +2
        23 July 2021 11: 49
        I think that the price of $ 30 million provides for the initial configuration, i.e. there is no talk of any AFAR. In the best case, a radar with a SHAR, the engine is simpler, there is no integrated laser-sighting complex for working on ground targets, there is no electronic warfare and a warning system for laser irradiation and missile launch on an aircraft, etc.
        But this is correct! Let's remember the commercial success of Mirage V. There was also that "constructor" there. But it was cheap and cheerful and it was possible to assemble the plane according to the requirements of a particular customer.
    17. -2
      23 July 2021 14: 05
      Others are convinced that the stated price is a "bluff"

      and who said that 30 Eurotugs is the export price? :)
      + Considering that this is the price of the base model, which most likely has:
      1. No support for drones control.
      2. There is no possibility of remote access to management.
      3. Limited REB
      4. No subscription for renewal.
    18. +1
      23 July 2021 15: 41
      25-30 million! An enticement for buyers. We have learned from car dealerships laughing
    19. -1
      23 July 2021 21: 58
      Quote: dauria
      And now, against the backdrop of confrontation with China, they will be friends with the United States. So most likely this "clearing" will get the F-35.
      Because it is now the only single engine and because only China is capable of repeating the F-35. For a simple reason - only he has enough money and industrial and scientific potential.

      The Rafal Indians do not pull where they F-35 ...
      China has not pulled out a 5th generation fighter, "fashionable" stealth airframe outlines, this is not yet the 5th generation, such a glider can be made of plywood. The characteristics are important, but while their 5th generation was captured and accompanied by Indian Su-30s, that is, the EPR is quite high. There is no engine, there is no reliable radar with AFAR, the Chinese were not among the leaders in missile armament, the avionics are so-so and? ...
    20. +1
      23 July 2021 22: 09
      Quote: Andrey Nikolaevich
      It is difficult to negotiate with the Indians. After all, they communicate in the language of dance. Should we dance too?)

      Here Mahmud Esambaev could easily agree with them wassat
    21. -1
      23 July 2021 23: 18
      Quote: kapitan281271
      Yesterday on the website Military Materials there was an article about the exercises in Egypt, they write that Rafal had our Su-35, as he wanted, it seems like the Rafal's electronic warfare system put out the Su-35 radar, it is interesting to know the thoughts of people who are more knowledgeable in these matters. Maybe it was not without forgery, paddling pools are masters of corruption schemes when snatching their weapons. If everything was fair, then I think this is a problem.

      I don’t think this is a big problem, export options are always worse than those supplied to our army, plus the Egyptians.
    22. 0
      24 July 2021 00: 58
      So it's disposable.
      1. +1
        24 July 2021 16: 49
        Condom yes - no plane.
    23. 0
      24 July 2021 18: 55
      "It is also noted that it is" practically invulnerable to foreign air defense systems. "
      I agree. Air defense systems oppose flying targets. And this checkmat is only planned to be lifted into the air for the first time in two years. And there - years of debugging, fine-tuning, etc. So yes, practically invulnerable for a few more years at least.
      PySy: I do not hay the plane. I point out that in advertising, it is desirable to separate the existing opportunities obtained during the tests, from the desired and planned ones.

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