Impartially about the tanks "Oplot-M" and T90MS

Tankman Day is a Russian and Soviet professional holiday for servicemen and tank builders, celebrated annually on the second Sunday of September. Established by the Decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR from 1 July 1946, to mark the great merits of armored and mechanized troops in defeating the enemy during the Great Patriotic War, as well as for the merits of tank builders in equipping the Armed Forces with armored vehicles.

On the same day in 2012, the KP “KHKBM named after A. A. Morozov” (KKBM) will celebrate its 85th anniversary. The design group formed on the basis of the Kharkov Steam Locomotive Plant in 1927 tanks gradually transformed into a separate powerful design and production enterprise for the creation of armored vehicles, taking in the former USSR, and now in Ukraine, a key role in armored vehicles. In a number of HCBM developments, such machines as the best tank of the Second World War T-34 and the progenitor of all post-Soviet main battle tanks (MBT) T-64 occupy a special place. The last car became the progenitor of three branches of Soviet MBTs, which have the same guns, similar sighting systems, of the same mass class, but differing in running gear and engine types, as well as automatic weapons (mechanisms) of loading (AZ, MZ). The development of these lines and the latest developments today are the Ukrainian Oplot-M tank (object 478DU10) and the Russian T-90MS. Oplot-M was adopted by the Ukrainian army on May 28, 2009. A series of 49 cars is being prepared for release, but by order of the Royal Army (SV) of Thailand. The T-90MS was first shown on September 9, 2011 at the Prospector in Nizhny Tagil as part of the VIII international arms exhibition REA-2011.

Let us try to impartially compare two such similar tanks and at the same time completely different representatives of the Kharkov and Nizhny Tagil schools of armored vehicle construction.

To attack

The first thing that catches the eye is the presence on the vehicles of the commander's panoramic sighting and observation complexes, which expand the capabilities of the tank commander to monitor the situation and firing in the "Double" mode.

Panorama commander. The Oplot-M tank has a multi-channel panoramic sighting and observation complex PKN-6 with independent optical and thermal imaging channels and a laser rangefinder. The installation of PKN-6 increased the ability to observe the terrain, especially at night and in conditions of reduced visibility. The detection range of a “tank” target through the visual channel of the panorama reaches 5500 meters, and through the thermal channel in a wide field of view - 4000. The tank commander has the ability to detect and recognize ground and air targets, to issue targets to the gunner. The complex allows the commander himself to conduct firing from a cannon and coaxial machine gun in the mode of duplicated control weapons. Installing PCN-6 brought about changes in the appearance of the car.

T-90MS uses a multichannel panoramic sighting and observation complex with independent daytime television and thermal imaging channels and a laser rangefinder of the PAN Falcon Eye PC.

Gunner's sight. The Oplot-M tank is equipped with a 1-X46-M gunner's day sight — an optical sight with a two-plane independent stabilization of the field of view, with a laser range finder and a missile laser control channel, and the PTT-2 thermal imaging system designed for observation, detection, recognition and identifying targets and ensuring accurate firing of a cannon and machine gun paired with it in all operating conditions.

The T-90MS uses the combined gunner sight of the PNM Sosna-U with a two-plane independent stabilization of the visual field, equipped with a laser range finder. There are channels of laser control rocket and thermal imaging with a video viewing device that serves to duplicate the optical system in conditions of limited visibility and in the dark.

Anti-aircraft installation. On the tank "Oplot-M" transferred to the bracket in the rear of the tower, is controlled remotely and monitors the rotation of the head of the panorama on the horizon and mirrors vertically. There is a dead zone at the angle of decline in the area of ​​the panorama. The firing sector is 360 degrees horizontally and from -3 to + 60 vertically. Caliber - 12,7 millimeter.

The T-90MS uses a universal remote-controlled machine gun installation caliber 7,62 millimeter. The destruction range of manpower is up to 1500 meters. Located behind the head of the panorama with the 316 firing sector of degrees on the horizon and from -10 to + 45 vertically.

Protection and engines

Reservations. This is the next characteristic element. On the Oplot-M tank, the new Knife-2 built-in dynamic protection system is used, which is able to withstand an ATGM with a tandem warhead, cumulative and armor-piercing shells. Its containers are installed on the front of the hull and on the tower, as well as along the sides of the hull, providing additional protection from the sides. The Knife-2 complex has a modular design, so it can be easily replaced or upgraded as the corresponding dynamic protection technologies are improved.

On the T-90MS, new additional protection "Relic" (EDS 4С23) is installed on the hull and a modular tower protection with side reservation modules. On the hull aft - lattice screens for all-round protection against hand-held TCP.

Engines. The Oplot-M tank is equipped with a more advanced 6ТD-2Е engine with 1200 horsepower, which works reliably without any reduction in power at temperatures up to + 55 degrees Celsius. The letter "E" means "ecological". Previously, the environmental friendliness of combat vehicles did not particularly reflect, but now the situation has changed - such an option as exhaust emissions is taken into account in international tenders.

The T-90MS employs a B-93 power unit with horsepower 1130 with an improved cooling system, also allowing it to operate at temperatures up to + 55 degrees.

To improve mobility and controllability, the Oplot-M tank has been equipped with a comprehensive tank motion control system (GCMS). It is designed to improve the relevant indicators in various road conditions and reduce the fatigability of the driver with the steering wheel.

On the T-90MS, control based on the steering wheel and an automatic gear shift system are used with the ability to change to manual.

Auxiliary installation. Increased energy load required the use of more powerful units. On the tank "Oplot-M" installed auxiliary power unit with a capacity of ten kW. Located on the right fender in an airtight armored compartment and connected to the electrical and fuel systems of the main engine.

On the tank T-90MS - unit seven kW. Installed on the left fender in an airtight armored compartment.

In the tower

The guns on the tanks are identical - 125 caliber of millimeters of increased accuracy with a metering system for bending the barrel. Automatic loaders (mechanisms) are also identical to the base models on the 28 and 22 shots. The “Ainet” system was installed to remotely detonate ammunition.

The tanks are equipped with air conditioning systems, which increases the comfort of the crew and allows them to be used in hot countries for a longer time.

It is in the towers of the greatest difference. The tank "Oplot-M" - all-welded, created under the project "Improvement-88" with a new system of dynamic protection and developed aft cap. The minus of the structure is an increased moment of imbalance, therefore, a more powerful drive of the tower is needed.

The T-90MS has a turret designed according to the Breakthrough project, a trailer compartment for ammunition removed from the combat compartment. The aft part is more developed in length and width, the hatches of increased dimensions, With this arrangement, the moment of unbalance of the tower decreased, but its mass increased compared to early samples of the T-90 tank.

Results

Thus, the tanks are almost identical. Over the past 50 years, this layout has reached the apogee of development. Unfortunately, the architecture and technological solutions do not allow to realize the concept of maximum crew protection in case of a tank defeat, since the ammunition is located in the fighting compartment with the crew. In this case, with the defeat it becomes unimportant how many there are in the machine and whether there are shells carried into the outer box. The biggest problem is the almost complete lack of protection from anti-tank guided missiles of the third generation of the FGM-148 Javelin type and other ammunition of a similar class. Attempting to organize a round-trip booking from hand-held PTS when using the old layout results in an increase in the mass of the combat vehicle to the maximum allowable values ​​for the chassis and an increase in the specific pressure on the ground, which affects the patency.

These models, having appeared late for 20 years, do not meet the modern conditions of battle and the requirements for survivability. And the more they are not adapted to participate in local conflicts, and their use in urban battles will lead to sad consequences.

Nevertheless, the groundwork obtained as a result of the work done on these tanks, combined with the efforts of two design teams, can help create a truly new generation of machines - a tank of the 21st century.

Photo:

Comments

[Hedgehog]

At the expense of design, I like the mainstay more. The T-90MS is also a Krassavet, but I don't like these tanks too much. The stronghold is more predatory in appearance.

[Slayer]

and their use in urban battles will lead to sad consequences.

The use of any tank in urban conditions leads to its destruction))) all the bells and whistles will help him live there a few minutes longer. Even the abrams found that the sides could not withstand the blows of simple RPGs, so the Americans send tanks to the city only after the infantry. And the most important thing is the crew, be there even the best armor in the world, if a bad crew does not help him. Our guys in Chechnya on the T-62 did such things that the Americans couldn’t even dream about the Abrams))

[aspirin02]

Allow !! Heavy tanks were never used in urban battles! To do this, there is mobile equipment and infantry!

[bairat]

Oddly enough, the Americans in Iraq could not do without tanks, although many predicted their imminent demise as unnecessary.
In the desert, enemy tanks were much more efficiently destroyed by aircraft, and their tanks created huge logistics problems. The fuel delivered to the place literally became gold, tank crews were very tired.
On the other hand, it was in the city that tanks became irreplaceable. The infantry refused to storm the city blocks, tactics were worked out when the Abrams flew into the cleared area at full speed and the infantry followed, working on the identified firing points. Rumors about the fact that Abrams do not hold "simple RPGs" are greatly exaggerated.

[segamegament]

Quote: bairat

Rumors about the fact that Abrams do not hold "simple RPGs" are greatly exaggerated.

Yeah, tell me, this is for the crew of this "abrashka", it's not enough I can put a couple more ...

[Lieutenant colonel]

It is interesting to look under the false side, and so far it’s just a hole in the armored false side. And judging by the photo the tank is on the go.

[segamegament]

the tank can be on the go, but the crew is not (the upper photo is the result of the work of the PG-7VS). But on the contrary, the crew was somehow able to fade, but the tank wasn’t working here, the PG-7VR ...

[Hammer]

It is for this tank and precisely for this photo.
The shot was fired by a simple PG-7V. Through penetration of the screen and the side of the car has been achieved. Zabronovoe effect in this case was not strong. The tank was disabled, but not destroyed. About the crew, to be honest I don’t remember. Need to look for it.
This is a photo from inside this tank:

It would be interesting to see what would happen to him if an RPG-29 shot hit the side. Well, if, of course, there was something left to watch.
yyyyy

[s1н7т]

If a tank is in front of the infantry in the city, it won't take long. Study materiel))) And in the city of Abrams has an RPG on top, sideways, aft. Like any other tank in the city. It is necessary to read not only the media, but also the "primary sources"
Tank, he is also a tank in Africa

[Vadivak]

Quote: Slayer

Even Abrams found that the sides could not withstand the blows of simple RPGs

And not only one Abrams burned out (“because of the secondary effect”), which was fired from a 12,7 mm DShK machine gun. The bullet hit the left rear of the tower, where the APU is located, broke a box, disabled the unit, and burning fuel and oil from it rushed down to the MTO. The power plant ignited, which completely burned out, the tank cannot be restored. the case is over, but .....

[tforik]

The loss of US tanks in Iraq is much less than ours in Chechnya.

And in Afghanistan over our 10 years, more than the United States 2003-2012 many times.

I think the main reason is a more proper organization and tactics of warfare, as well as a much higher training of crews. Well, tanks are better.

[DIMS]

I think the main reason is a more proper organization and tactics of warfare, as well as a much higher training of crews. Well, tanks are better.

And the flag is prettier.

[tforik]

Our flag is the best! But you can’t get far on it ((

[Civil]

fight and guard the fence of the base, a lot of mind is not necessary

[Ziksura]

Quote: tforik

I think the main reason is a more proper organization and tactics of warfare, as well as a much higher training of crews. Well, tanks are better.

The main reason is sitting on the bases and low intensity of hostilities.

[tforik]

They’re sitting at the bases, yes. And how can you evaluate the fighting? By controlled territory, by the number of killed opponents and equipment?

[Pimply]

Well, as if about sitting on the bases - this is a myth.

[Darck]

Well, as if about sitting on the bases - this is a myth.

This is not a myth, but an attempt to justify itself) How did the Americans take Iraq like that when they couldn’t take Chechnya here ....

[collapse]

You are in vain about Chechnya.
Somewhere I read an interview with a star-striped general about the war in Chechnya - and you know what he said?
Pop their parts in such a batch, then for more than a month they would not stand it.
If I dig out an article, I'll post it.

[Slayer]

Quote: tforik

in Afghanistan over our 10 years, more than the United States 2003-2012 many times.

I think the main reason is a more proper organization and tactics of warfare, as well as a much higher training of crews. Well, tanks are better.

You see, we have different tactics of warfare, in principle, if in Chechnya we couldn’t bomb cities, because this is the territory of our country and we cannot kill the citizens of our country, then Americans can’t do anything without carpeting, the bell towers who will die there, in Afghanistan we also supported a peaceful regime, and we also couldn’t solve everything by carpet. We had to fight either on our territory and protect the citizens of our country, or defend the regime, and civilians could not be killed either, hands we were tied, so such losses, the last time we defended our territory is the 2nd World War, well, you know what happened)))))

[bairat]

This is civilians, when they left, they blew up houses (pictured Grozny 1995)

[Slayer]

Quote: bairat

This is civilians, when they left, they blew up houses (pictured Grozny 1995)

Peaceful not peaceful, but we could not cover the formidable with bomber when the citizens of the Russian Federation were there, and when a bomb fell on grandmother going for milk. The army is needed in order to protect the citizens of our country, which is why we stormed it, we could have razed the city to the ground with aviation and hail, but it was impossible. The same thing, 2 majahideen will sit in Novosibirsk, you won’t compare the city with the land, and in Grozny as well

[survivor]

yeah. understandably. Pts interesting, why, then, multi-storey buildings in the city center, beyond the river. Sunzhe tumbled down like dominoes? and probably it seemed to me, but many missiles and a bomb were dropped on the 56th section, from which the earth opened to a length of 1.500 meters, and 2 meters wide. By the way, didn’t you watch the high-rise panel buildings in the center with holes from missiles? I watched. I watched the work of aviation in Grozny. From the very beginning I watched. The only difference was that in the initial period of aviation, more was involved and it worked in areas, and by the end of the capture of the city, aviation worked more precisely.
about grandmothers .... not in vain did the Russians in Chechnya say, "it is easier for the government to destroy us here than to take us out to the middle lane."
and the Russian units stormed the city not at all because they pitied the civilians (I saw this pity)), but because there were oil refineries on the territory of the city. , "oddly enough" they did not suffer, since there were practically no battles on their territory.
just during the reign of the bori, they were very worried about what the elder brother would say. the destruction of the city from the air and "hail", "tornado" and other "hurricanes" could have negative consequences in negotiations with him ...

[933454818]

It’s really better to destroy Chechens in Chechnya than to take them out. They were taken out to Central Asia during World War II, deported, so to speak, as Chechens in Central Asia behaved like an beast, so after their resettlement, many Russians and Ukrainians had to abandon their homes where their grandfathers and great-grandfathers lived and go wherever they look.

[segamegament]

Chechens killed and killed civilians in 1991-1994, but the gangs and various combatants remained in the city, and the offspring of chebureks who now shoot in the back and stir up terrorist attacks, those that AK learned to keep faster than writing. This is slag and a tumor that we operated on and successfully removed from the body of Russia ...

[bairat]

It’s like a skeleton in a closet, you won’t get rid of it. The Russian government is trying to make everyone forget about the civilians of Grozny who fell under the assault of 1994-1995. The Chechens moved to the villages, there were mainly Russians who were obstructed to leave. They waited for an army of liberators, but they forgot about them. Nobody dismantled the rubble after the bombing, the graves of those whom they could bury in the courtyards were razed to the ground and rebuilt a new city. There were no civilians ...

[tforik]

In Chechnya they bombed like that! And in a 10-year war, ours was bombed.
This is developed in the us media and shouting about every unsuccessful hit, we are silent about everything. (although they are silent everywhere)

[sedoj]

Quote: tforik

And in Afghanistan over our 10 years, more than the United States 2003-2012 many times.

The comparison is not correct. Given that the United States helped the dushmans with all they could. This includes both training and weapons. And now you can imagine what losses the United States could have suffered in Afghanistan, if Russia began to support the Taliban.

[Bronis]

I agree. Not exactly a tank theme, but let's recall the same Vietnam. The active assistance of the USSR in air defense systems allowed the Americans to inflict very decent losses in 10 years. About 900 "Phantoms", several hundred "Super Sabers", "Thunderchiefs" and much more. Could North Vietnam have done such damage without significant support? No! The fighting in present-day Afghanistan is much less intense, and accordingly the losses in manpower and equipment are more modest. Do not underestimate the US Army, but do not overestimate either. It is quite difficult to take countermeasures against well-trained and armed "partisans" against a "regular" army. No one has solved this problem.

[tforik]

Very surprised! Read wikipedia

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CF%EE%F2%E5%F0%E8_%F1%E0%EC%EE%EB%B8%F2%EE%E2_%E2%
EE_%C2%FC%E5%F2%ED%E0%EC%F1%EA%EE%E9_%E2%EE%E9%ED%E5#.D0.9F.D0.BE.D1.82.D0.B5.D1
.80.D0.B8_.D0.B0.D0.B2.D0.B8.D0.B0.D1.86.D0.B8.D0.B8_.D0.A1.D0.A8.D0.90

Indeed, the Americans lost about 3000 aircraft in Vietnam! As in a full-scale war of superpowers, fantastically many ... How did they not go bankrupt? Their material losses are higher than ours in Afghanistan by an order of magnitude (

[Bronis]

In a war of the superpowers, they would have lost these planes in a few days, then in a few years. But the armed conflict is usually referred to as local. Since the Second World War, these are perhaps the largest combat losses of the Air Force of any country in the world. The total number of the US aircraft fleet in those years was 7000-9000 aircraft (according to various sources). Of course, not a third of the fleet was shot down in Vietnam. during the Cold War, losses recovered fairly quickly, but very decently. The economic and, most importantly, political damage was enormous. But the Americans took the lesson and openly fight only with the enemy who cannot offer them tangible resistance and, accordingly, inflict heavy losses. Can they deal with Iran by military means? They can, of course, but the losses promise to be relatively high. Accordingly, they are doing their best to weaken the enemy: politically, economically, militarily. And only if this is successful, the US Armed Forces can appear there. And it may not appear ... Syria and Libya as an example.

[sea]

no, there are fewer fools in the troops.

[Lieutenant colonel]

I haven’t seen such trills for a long time. DIMS correctly writes - and their flag is more beautiful and candy wrappers are steeper.

[segamegament]

strange, compare military operations and territory controlled by the SA in 1979-1989 and pindocov in the period from 2001-2012 you will be very surprised ...

[scripter]

Quote: tforik

The loss of US tanks in Iraq is much less than ours in Chechnya.

And in Afghanistan over our 10 years, more than the United States 2003-2012 many times.

I think the main reason is a more proper organization and tactics of warfare, as well as a much higher training of crews. Well, tanks are better.

cheers-patriots sad to realize this .. zamususuyut.
unfortunately, emotions still prevail over reason.

[t7310]

Well, tanks are better

somewhere it’s better (the seats are softer) and somewhere not (the Negro is charging) and it turns out that ours is better since softer seats can be made yourself

[core]

you don’t write stupid things, ours in Afghanistan were engaged in real military operations, and s are sitting at the bases. if the tank is not involved in combat. then there are no losses. and if there is no combat use of the tank, then the crew’s experience is also slightly above zero.

[Pimply]

You are mistaken

[s1н7т]

An assault group for fighting in the city is registered in our BUSV. Using a tank. In Chechnya, they spit on BUSV. And the Yankees have, I wonder? If there are, they are as stupid people as ours

[Lieutenant colonel]

It's a pity I can't put three pluses))))))) I feel that we are one "field" of berries, If so, then with the coming.

[technical]

it can only do what we later did with them. (Remember Colonel Budanov) Americans didn’t even dream of that.

[Hedgehog]

MDE zaminusili ... although for what?

[Common sense]

Because the site is patriotic, which means you MUST like the patriotic T 90, and not an alien stronghold.

[phantom359]

Common sense, Good, then explain why you should like abrasha? And about patriotism - read the American sites, VO just does not take off. All of them have the very most and sincerely believe in it.)

[Rumata]

Quote: phantom359

All of them have the very most and sincerely believe in it.)

Are you reading comments on this site? The same eggs are only in profile and there is nothing wrong with that.

[Zmitcer]

Quote: Common sense

then you MUST like the patriotic T 90

and immediately get minuses. There is nothing to get out of the "tank". The T-90 is the technology of the 70s, it doesn't matter if you upgrade it, it will stay there, you can, of course, put a "curtain" on the T-34 and hang armor, even then the "patriots" will have many reasons to tell the whole world that wait we you ... By the way, the engine on the T-90, again the modernized B-2 with the T-34. Hurray for the "best" tank! "Oplot" is still more modern, worse is better, you can argue for a long time. Until there are new tanks, all these comparisons are empty.

[uizik]

It’s a predatory species, but there are a lot of angles; there is something to get enough shells for.

[Hedgehog]

I'm talking about design ....

[Astrey]

And T-90MS - has a more capacious and expressive name.
Like MS-1. DEATH MACHINE

[Big lexey]

Here it is important to understand for whom he, the T-90MS tank, is a death machine?
And then in your comment there is some understatement.

[Astrey]

Incompleteness of perfection. :)

But seriously, you, as a resident of a producer-consumer country, should be better than mine knowing against whom and as part of what these machines fought ...

[gray]

Only the T-90 is mass-produced, but there is no serial Oplot yet

[vorobey]

So, it will begin now. can I stand with a shovel while on the sidelines?

[Manager]

I will tell you my opinion, take a beer with nuts and go to your side.
I like T 90 more!

[Kars]

With a shovel? I think it will not reach the corpses)))))) (bury)

And so the question itself --- Impartially)))) smiles at me

And the end of the article gives fiction.

The solution to this issue is for me (I am looking for a battlefield)
This is a tender for deliveries to third countries under the money-commodity scheme, where both the stronghold and t-90ms will participate

[Ziksura]

Quote: Kars

This is a tender for deliveries to third countries under the money-commodity scheme, where both the stronghold and t-90ms will participate

Sorry but no. The arms trade is always highly politicized. Especially if the product is almost the same.

Quote: Kars

(i'm tempted to battle)

Between Russia and Ukraine, then Yes. But between third countries ... This is an option. Only FIGHT. Bloodthirsty? How else. For those who think differently, I recommend the pacifist site.

[Kars]

Quote: Ziksura

Sorry but no.

for you, maybe not, but for me, yes.

Quote: Ziksura

Especially if the product is almost similar

Controversial statement.

Quote: Ziksura

But between third countries ... This is an option

And then give discounts on training tankers, the availability of aircraft, tactical conditions--
on a flat field, one on one in three red whistles - vryatli will be. yes and price, quantity - so tender. And the goods are money, without selling on credit.

[igor67]

Quote: vorobey

can I stand with a shovel while on the sidelines?

Shovels! We’ll hand over scrap! Just enough for the booze!

[Odessa]

igor67,

Shovels! We’ll hand over scrap! Just enough for the booze!

Remove this comment faster before Sparrow sees it. For him, a spatula is all, and you ... who is talking about, and Igor is talking about beer.

[igor67]

Odessa,
I didn’t have time late, I confess Esther, I repent

Quote: Odessa

who about what, and Igor about beer.

Quote: Odessa

and you ... who are talking about, and Igor is talking about beer

[Alexander Romanov]

Hi Igor, where to get such a mug

[igor67]

Alexander Romanov,
hi, well, it’s definitely somewhere in Russia in terms of blat. I remember at schoolchildren they bought rotten wine (fruit wine) in three-liter jars.

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: igor67

right now Esther will say sho again the chronicles for beer,

Igor do not be afraid she has Internet freezes She is trying to get out of the phone, but it doesn’t work.

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: igor67

Today, on the news, your city was shown cleanly, rain.

Clinton in the city, nature is crying

[Denzel13]

Hi Sasha, how many sips do you have?

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Denzel13

Hi Sasha, how many sips you have

Well, I don’t even know how many mugs will be?

[Armata]

Igor Respect. They used to drink like that before. Only plastic mugs were. Remember 3 kopecks? And God forbid that without holes.

[igor67]

Quote: Steam Train

plastic mugs were. Remember 3 kopecks?

and I’ve been washed many times, I remember, To tell: after all, today's children do not even understand how this is possible

[Denzel13]

Igor, you can’t melt all the shovels Sparrow has a considerable warehouse. Again, good people will help if run out

[igor67]

Denzel13,
and it pleases, you can hire a couple of ensigns, for them a whole warehouse is a trifle

[Igor]

And I know what unites these two tanks!

[Loki77]

Of course. They are united by the Soviet past.

[Igor]

And here it is not!)))))

[collapse]

so what???)))

[Igor]

They have a common secret name "Elusive Joe"

[ShturmKGB]

"... The tank" Oplot-M "is equipped with a multi-channel panoramic sighting and observation complex PKN-6 with independent daytime optical and thermal imaging channels and a laser rangefinder. The PKN-6 installation has increased the ability to observe the terrain, especially at night and in low The detection range of a tank-type target through the visual channel of the panorama reaches 5500 meters, and through the thermal imaging channel in a wide field of view - 4000. The tank commander has the ability to detect and recognize ground and air targets, issue target designation to the gunner. The complex allows the commander to fire himself from a cannon and a coaxial machine gun in the mode of duplicated armament control The installation of PKN-6 entailed changes in the appearance of the vehicle.

T-90MS uses a multi-channel panoramic sighting and observation system with independent daytime television and thermal imaging channels and a laser rangefinder of the PK PAN "Falcon Eye"... And where are the indicators of "Hawkeye"? Impartial analysis?

[ShturmKGB]

I am more inclined towards the T-90MS, but if it says "Impartial analysis" then there must be an impartial analysis, not a sham ...

[vosovec]

In my opinion, such machines can only be analyzed in a combat situation, however sad it may sound. In modern warfare - one electromagnetic pulse - and all the laser rangefinders and electronic gadgets were covered - the main thing is the filling of the machine - its crew.
And so it turns out - we are "pussies" ...

[Cashpoint]

In the case of the T-90MS with the indicated development of the situation, the tank commander will not be destiny because can only observe the battlefield through small triplexes around the commander’s hatch ...

[Nicholas C.]

I think this is not an analysis at all.
Yes, and if you compare the machines on the TTX, it turns out that the Kalashnikov assault rifle is equivalent to its Albanian copy.

When Ukraine started a Pakistani project, the guys from Shostka turned to me for the purchase of equipment for cutting PCB up to 30mm. I then called Andronov, at that time the chief engineer of UVZ (to maintain contact) and received an eloquent answer: "Let them cut it, we no longer put textolite." Like: "In England, guns are no longer cleaned with bricks." I remember that at that time in Ukraine, even barrels for tank guns could not be made. And now, during the time of devastation, have they caught up and surpassed? Where is it all fighting, getting experience for real improvement?

In the USSR, different tank-building schools competed among themselves socialistically, but at the same time, successful engineering solutions were introduced onto the machines of others. This provided leadership to the great power in world tank building. And now what is the point in such a comparison? It is necessary to compare with the leaders. And professionally.

[Cashpoint]

In the USSR, the leading tank design bureau was Morozov’s design bureau ... and the T-72 (mobilization tank) is essentially a deteriorated alteration of the Kharkov T-64.

Quote: Nikolai S.

Kalashnikov assault rifle is equivalent to its Albanian copy.

[Cashpoint]

Quote: Nikolai S.

When Ukraine started a Pakistani project, the guys from Shostka turned to me for the purchase of equipment for cutting PCB up to 30mm. I then called Andronov, at that time the chief engineer of UVZ (to maintain contact) and received an eloquent answer: "Let them cut it, we no longer put textolite." Like: "In England, guns are no longer cleaned with bricks."

Morozov’s design bureau has not put textolite for a long time, unlike Tagil (it puts boron-filled textolite in places on the roofs of the tower and near the driver’s drive as protection against radiation). When booking a tower, the Morozov Design Bureau used a cell-filled polymer-filled filler ... which is more expensive but exceeds standard fillers by 30-40% compared to the cumulative charges. Since the days of the USSR, Morozov Design Bureau, unlike the Uralvagonzavod, used more advanced and expensive composites. for example, the Uralvagozovod has just now grown to metal ceramics, which Kharkov has long abandoned as less effective. I already say that in the production of Oplot-M, expensive EShP steel is used, which gives an increase in resistance in comparison with the usual T-90 in 15% ....

[Cashpoint]

In the Belarusian "Hawkeye" on the T-90MS there is no optical channel, there are only television and thermal imaging, that is, the commander watches the battlefield on a small liquid crystal monitor, no tank developer in the world has thought of such garbage before ... THE OPTICAL CHANNEL IS NECESSARY !

[Фокус]

Quote: CashPoint

The Belarusian "Hawkeye" on the T-90MS lacks an optical channel,

-The gunner's sight includes a thermal imaging channel, an optical channel, ground control equipment for the laser-beam guidance channel of the ATGM (developed by the NKTs VKT FSUE "GRPZ") and a laser rangefinder. The commander's panoramic sight has a 360 ° field of view. The panoramic sight has optical, low-level television and laser rangefinder channels. If necessary, the commander can display the image of the gunner's thermal imaging sight on his video device. The automated control system has a digital ballistic computer, a set of automatic sensors for firing conditions and an automatic target tracking, which greatly simplifies and increases the efficiency of using guided weapons immediately in the entire speed range of the BMPT with a roll and differential of up to 15 degrees.http: //sfw.org.ua/ 1148997721-terminator-t-90ms-tagil-ognevaya-mosch.htm
l EVERYTHING is! But in the article this is not, for this minus.

[Cashpoint]

THE OPTICAL CHANNEL COMMANDER DOESN’T BE ABLE WITH SUCH A PANORAMIC LAYOUT!

you simply are not aware of what an optical channel is and how it differs from an optical low-level television ...


By the way, Belarusians have a "hawkeye" and with an optical channel, but apparently it did not fit into the T-90MS, so a stripped-down version was installed there, and it will not work to replace the one that is on the full one, since you need to change the entire layout of the tower ...

[sazyckin]

Yeah impartially about the stronghold and biased about t90

[ars_pro]

Horrroshy cars !!! Promising both, not ashamed of the domestic manufacturer !!!

[Karish]

Quote: ars_pro

Horrroshy cars !!! Promising both, not ashamed of the domestic manufacturer !!!

I am confused by the thickness of the commander's hatch, as I understand it, there is no upper armor for the tower. All modern anti-tank systems hit a tank from a hill (i.e.) from the top. What about this?

[Alexey Prikazchikov]

Well, at the MSCs, the dz is covered.

[Common sense]

Normal thickness.
Too heavy hatch is difficult to open, and in peacetime injuries will be higher.

[Aleks tv]

I don’t understand what the meaning of the article is: what would you like to have two good tanks in the end?

Good technique, better than abrams (also not a new car and amers are not going to change it).

Armata will come out, and there we will see what kind of beast.

[Uncle Serozha]

For me, the situation is normal. It is the similarity (and, consequently, the competitiveness) of these two combat vehicles that can become an incentive for our military-industrial complex to develop the "Armata" as soon as possible. Otherwise, we risk competing in the markets with our Ukrainian counterparts.
So, dear compatriots, in order to maintain a leading position in world tank building, it is necessary not to speak in a derogatory manner about Ukrainian comrades, but to create new equipment. With a propulsion system based on a reduced nuclear reactor of a submarine, an instrument on a missile launcher with the possibility of hitting satellites in low Earth orbits, active defense, ensuring the survival of the crew with a direct hit by a tactical nuclear warhead with a power of up to 50 Kt, as well as an all-round shandets generator (with a probability of 0,98 , XNUMX generates a shandets to any likely adversary within the Galaxy and its immediate vicinity).

[Kars]

Quote: Uncle Seryozha

can become an incentive for our military-industrial complex to quickly develop the "Armata".

What do you think in the year that Armata will be allowed to be exported for export? I think not earlier than 20-25)

Quote: Uncle Seryozha

crew survival with a direct hit by a tactical nuclear warhead with a capacity of up to 50 Kt, as well as an all-perspective shandets generator

[DIMS]

Yeah. If they begin to supply "Armata" for their army, then the same will be demanded by foreign customers. Why do they need old stuff? Is that to inflate the price to the level of "Leclerc"

[Kars]

Quote: DIMS

will require

direct and demand.

Quote: DIMS

inflate to the level of "Leclerc"

Vryatli it vryatli in the domestic market will be cheaper than the ever-memorable Leclerc ---- or does someone believe in Western stories about a cheap anti-Muslim tank?

And foreign customers is who? Not counting India, and even Armata will not really need it for the time being, something similar will not appear in China, or Pakistan - it’s easier for it to bring thousands-72-90 to mind.

So the export potential (if Armata of course will be a major breakthrough) up to 30 years (India may sooner) is minimal.

[DIMS]

I don’t know, our tanks are often put up for tenders.

[Alexey Prikazchikov]

First, at least the declared amount in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation must be supplied.

Kars be realistic that the amount that was announced before 20 years will not deliver. It will be very good if by 23 or by 25 years. All the same, the priority is not for the land investigators to finance them according to the residual principle. And normal financing will be only by the 20th year and until the 40th year, while again nuclear weapons will not need to be updated.

[Kars]

Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov

Kars be realistic

I’m not saying what they’ll do, I’m saying that it IS NECESSARY.

and since I wrote many times already, I personally expect a push from Armata to develop BTT. You will make Armata, maybe the Yankees will scratch ... Pakistan will come running to us from the threat of delivering Armata to India and so on.

[Alexey Prikazchikov]

But they won’t export it right away. And frankly, it’s ridiculous for me to compare Arjun and Armata, if I’m not mistaken, even different tingling machines. The same Turkish Altai or this Korean tank, they will all become obsolete with the arrival of Almaty.

[Kars]

Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov

But they won’t export it right away.

Honestly? Isn't that just what I want to say?

Quote: Kars

So, the export potential (if Armata of course will be a major breakthrough) up to 30 years (India may be earlier) is minimal.

?

Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov

It’s funny for me to compare Arjun and Armata

And am I comparing them somewhere?

Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov

everyone will become obsolete with the arrival of Almaty.

Will come see.

[Dmitry.V]

There are fewer options.

[Kars]

the titans pinned me more.

[Manager]

Enough with your games!

[Kars]

forgot to ask someone))))))))))))

[Manager]

Quote: Kars

to ask

Do not ASK but ASK. .... Play less, read more. And putting a minus for this is generally ridiculous. Well, okay, your business!

[Kars]

Quote: Manager

minus for putting it is generally funny

I’m watching the minus very well.

Quote: Manager

Play less

Never played.

Quote: Manager

read more

I liked the cycle of Horus Heresy and Komissar Cain.

[Manager]

Quote: Kars

I’m watching the minus very well.

I didn’t give you a minus. Not mine.

[Kars]

Well, the rest do not show, so ----

[Uncle Serozha]

Quote: Kars

What do you think in the year that Armata will be allowed to be exported for export? I think not earlier than 20-25)

In the "castrated" version, probably earlier. And then - won't it be necessary to sell in 20 years?

[Kars]

Quote: Uncle Seryozha

In the "castrated" version, probably earlier.

Why is he castrated to someone?

Quote: Uncle Seryozha

Is it not necessary to sell in 20 years

It is necessary, but vryatli Oplot will be a competitor.

[Van]

Quote: Uncle Seryozha

And then - wouldn’t it be necessary to sell in 20 years?

Who knows! Judging by the tension in the world, I think in 20-25 years. Nobody needs it anymore ...

[Zloy654]

already outdated, and only the inflatable T90 reached the army. Where are we going?

[collapse]

like tenderloin, just dry facts, where a specific description, tech. characteristics?

[Manager]

OLE OLE OLE OLEEE! T90! Champion! Ole Ole Ole Ole! Russia ! Forward!

Sorry could not stand the stress. Bastion is a good tank! Especially if you fill Salom, then it will have nothing to do with the T80 at all!

Ready to receive on bills =))

[DIMS]

One thing I don’t understand is why they refused from gas turbines in Russia and Ukraine. Real reasons, or polymers?

[Kars]

Quote: DIMS

in Russia and Ukraine refused

In general, they began to refuse even in the USSR when the T-80UD was adopted.

[DIMS]

Why so? For all its drawbacks, a gas turbine is more compact. It fits into the style of Soviet tank building

[Zynaps]

Quote: DIMS

Why so? For all its drawbacks, a gas turbine is more compact.

Do you take logistics into account? behind these turbines it is necessary to lay an oil pipeline - they are guzzling the fuel of Nipadecki. The main reason for adopting a gas turbine engine for a tank is the absence at that time (mid-late 70s) of tank diesel engines with a capacity of 1000 or more horses. and, by the way, about the compactness of a gas turbine engine is wrong. the T-80's habitability is even worse than that of the T-72, precisely due to the consumed space after GTE adaptation. The T-80 with the gas turbine engine is almost entirely a strong-willed decision of the Minister of Defense Ustinov. Most designers were against such a push.

in general, on Bonesite Vasily Chobitka exhaustively told.

[ATATA]

Maybe gluttonous, less reliable? And I think it is more expensive to contain them, but what are the advantages? Now diesel power is not particularly far behind. By the way, Leopards are the same diesel.

[DIMS]

As for reliability, it is unlikely.

[vorobey]

Quote: DIMS

As for reliability, it is unlikely.

had its own characteristics when driving machines with gas turbine engines. explain for a long time why and why, but if, when the gear was engaged on a machine with a gas turbine engine, the levers would take over the levers, the ordinary diesel engine would only stop or lower the gear. BKP in my opinion were the same, but the effect is different (I do not claim the T80 did not go once for the mechanics.)

[DIMS]

Well, this problem is exactly solvable

[vorobey]

Plus, does the price version work?

[DIMS]

Probably.

[Joker]

These models, having appeared late for 20 years, do not meet the modern conditions of battle and the requirements for survivability. And the more they are not adapted to participate in local conflicts, and their use in urban battles will lead to sad consequences.

It was necessary to start with this, I hope in Armata to pay more attention to this.
By the way, the most interesting thing is that as the tanks themselves are similar, so do their fates, both for export. Their and the T-72 chase will not fall apart.

[Romeohihnic]

All this is bullshit and propaganda. These tanks, like the Kalashnikov assault rifle from the 47g, are not new, except for minor alterations. So this tank is almost not altered, as it was a third generation tank and remained, the shape is the same, the shells too, the cannon again 125mm, protection is complete as before. For example, one modern tanks of the 4th generation Leopard or Abrams will destroy several tanks of even the steepest T-95 in an open area, and in a forest in fog, in a sandstorm, in smoke, it will destroy it for 10 tanks and more until it is discovered. Let me explain, in 1943, on the Kursk Bulge, our Soviet tankers were promoted that there was nothing better than the T-34. But the result of the battle showed something different, the Tiger destroyed the T-34 from a distance of 2 km, and the T-34, in order to at least cause damage, had to approach the Tiger at a distance 400m (and now imagine how many tans you have lost just to get closer). 70 years have passed and we are again being promoted that this tank is the best, full of crap ... Thank God that the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation announced the termination of further work on this tank and puts the development of robotic tanks of the series "Armata" "4 generations. Together with tanks, the principle of battle is changing, first robotic tanks will attack and only then with a crew, all this is not bad, but this is not enough to be produced already in the 5th generation. You should not catch up, but overtake.

[DIMS]

So is the fault of the tank and its developers? German tank guns were painfully good.
And by the way, "Tiger" is heavy, T-34 is medium. This is not usually the way to compare.

[Uncle Serozha]

Quote: DIMS

And by the way, "Tiger" is heavy, T-34 is medium. This is not usually the way to compare.

Exactly. And even the very fact that the Tiger is compared with the T-34 is the best praise for the thirty-four. But commentators are not very eager to compare the Tiger with the IS-2. Even though the IS-2 is much lighter than the Tiger and roughly corresponds in mass to the Panther, which was considered a "medium" tank according to the German classification.
The T-34 is correctly compared with the PzKpfw III and PzKpfw IV. But for some reason no one does this ...

[Uncle Serozha]

Quote: Romeohihnic

The tiger destroyed the T-34 from a distance of 2 km, and the T-34, in order to at least cause damage, had to approach the Tiger at a distance of 400 m (now imagine how many tans were lost so that it only approached)

And you will find a lot of places on the European theater with 2000 m of direct line of sight? Will have to work hard. But even when you find it, I will disappoint you - it is there that the T-34s will not go. And he will jump like a devil out of a snuffbox because of that copulation. Or because of the railway embankment.
I read the statement of the commander of the German tank battalion on the eastern front (I quote from memory):

"My battalion consists of a PzKpfw IV company and a Tigers company. In real life, this means that I command two PzKpfw IV companies - Tigers never get where they need to be because of their enormous weight and low reliability."

Better a good tank there (and then), where (and when) you need it, than a "super tank", which is always absent.

[Joker]

And what about the European theater? you look into the past please, before we fight in Europe, we first plagued the adversary, repelled the blow, because we, with our charter, never climb anybody, unlike a probable enemy. Therefore, first of all, it is necessary to orient the tanks to our theater, and then to the European one already. And we have fields with an open distance in 2 km of the sea.

[Uncle Serozha]

Quote: Joker

And what about the European theater? you look into the past please, before we fight in Europe, we first plagued the adversary

What am I talking about? Is our theater not European? Fortunately, the Germans did not reach the Urals!

[Old Man57]

Quote: Joker

And we have fields with an open distance of 2 km from the sea.

It was here that the magnificent qualities of 34ki affected !!!
My grandfather was a military man, a tankman and went through the war from Stalingrad to Koenigsberg. And from his stories, I already understood as a child that the Tiger was not quoted on the Eastern Front. our tankers didn’t like that Panther much more. But the Tiger was too heavy and not agile, and it was just in open fields that he even lost a 34ke pre-war specimen (with a 76mm gun).
The fact is that the Tiger had a too heavy and clumsy tower (on hydraulics) and to develop maximum angular speed the Germans had to switch all the pressure to the tower until the tank stopped. But even then the Tiger tower did not have time for 34ka, which had time before he turned the tower, to go the tiger sideways or in the tail, moreover, drawing closer to a distance of 200 meters, and calmly shoot him. Therefore, just in the open field, where there was room for maneuver, the 34ka had an advantage over the tiger.
But this number did not go with Panther: it could take her 34ka only from an ambush, although even an anti-tank rifle was taken to the side of Panther (there were quite a few cases)

[JonnyT]

Quote: Romeohihnic

All this is garbage and propaganda. These tanks, like the Kalashnikov assault rifle with the 47, aren’t anything new, except for small alterations

I do not agree ....... write info about the armor and active defense system Drozd M ....... The only rival of our new generation tanks is Leopard .......... Abrams shit, .. ..... his uranium armor in Iraq was burnt by shells from RPGs of the 60's, and his service team was sucks! What a habit of scolding everything domestic ????? Russian weapons are the best in the world - if it were not so long ago in slavery !!!!

[Joker]

And on many tanks that are in service with our army and in general which are in service at least from 100 units. Is Thrush M worth it?

Russian weapons are the best in the world - if it were not so long ago in slavery !!!!

The propaganda nonsense-Germany did not economically drag out a war with us, we had production and we stamped tanks in large quantities, stupidly crushed masses, this also applies to infantry, they took quantity and not quality.
Remember the quote - "Don't spare the soldier, women still give birth" Zhukov G.K. this was our military doctrine at the time of the Second World War and until now it has not changed at all, everything should be simple, cheap and in large quantities, this applies to the AK-47 and 12 too. Until the top people understand that they need to invest in training and equipment, hundreds of guys will die in skirmishes with bearded monkeys.

[JonnyT]

Quote: Joker

stupidly crushed by the mass, the same applies to the infantry, took the quantity and not quality.

At the beginning of the war, yes !!!! After the Kursk - no !!!

Remember the quote - "Don't spare the soldier, women still give birth" Zhukov G.K. this was our military doctrine during the Second World War and until now it has not changed at all, everything should be simple, cheap and in large quantities

I completely agree. But simple and reliable weapons performed well in combat conditions, there may not be specialized workshops, it is impossible to make complex repairs in a clean field! Highly qualified specialists are required .......... Plus, one should not forget about the human factor and competent leadership. In skillful hands and x ... th balalaika. not to mention weapons.

Quote: Joker

Until they understand at the top that they need to invest in training and equipment, hundreds will die in clashes with bearded monkeys.

At the top, everyone understands perfectly, there just sit a lot of traitors!

[Fox]

But what about a modern war without service centers and warranty workshops, tanning salons and massage therapists !?

[bairat]

Quote: Joker

Remember the quote - "Don't spare the soldier, women still give birth" Zhukov G.K.

Give a link to a quote where did he say that? In my opinion, this was said to Peter Menshikov 1st. Do not slander the nobility to the great commander.

[DIMS]

Quote: bairat

In my opinion, this was said to Peter Menshikov 1st

Apraksin Rumyantsev during the battle of Gross-Jegersdorf.

Well, you father, send the soldiers. Peasant women give birth to men, but where do we get war horses.

[PLO]

exactly
eh .. midshipmen and three musketeers childhood movies))

[Old Man57]

Quote: Joker

"Don't regret the soldier, women still give birth" Zhukov G.K.

"Pip those on the tongue" - as the people say ...
If you have already undertaken to quote, then do not misinterpret and do not "pull" out of the "situation" ... around this phrase, all sorts of "englenized" (more precisely Americanized) scum have piled up all sorts of nonsense ...
And it was like this:
First, a little history and, I warn you, everything that I write below is not invented by me and is recognized EVEN by Western historians (who, of course, have a conscience and decency).
The Prime Minister of England Churchill always fiercely hated Russia and crap as much as he could even during the war (when the future of England depended on our victory). And at the end of the war, he was seriously hoping to destroy the USSR, relying on the American nuclear monopoly and ... the Wehrmacht divisions. For this purpose, German prisoners of war camps were created as close as possible to the theater of war and in them (contrary to the Vienna Convention), soldiers were kept together with officers and generals platooned, assault, etc. Regularly carried out drill and so on. training as in ordinary military units. Only weapons were not given, but ... weapons were stored immediately at the camps in warehouses (the same contrary to the convention and common sense!).
As early as the last weeks of the war, over the radio in clear text, all German units and units were ordered at all costs not to break through for surrender into the Anglo-American zone ... and they broke through, regardless of the losses, especially the SS divisions. Our command knew about these plans and demanded that the retreating Germans not break through to the west. That is why the last weeks of battles were especially fierce and bloody.
Now about the quote:
The primary source is the memoirs of an American translator who "served" Eisenhower (the commander-in-chief of the American army) during the next Russian-American banquet in honor of the victory. According to her, at the banquet, Eisenhower and Zhukov sat not far from each other and this brute (Eisenhower) asked Zhukov with an innocent look why, they say, the Russians prevented the departure and surrender of the Germans to the Americans ... what a difference, they say, to whom to surrender ... only to unnecessary losses among the Russian soldiers.!? To which Zhukov angrily replied: "Nothing, women will give birth to new ones !!!"
How many screams were already among our homegrown shit about this phrase Zhukov !!! But once again you look into the situation:
Eisenhower knew perfectly well why he was obstructed (he took an active part in Churchill's plans) ... and Zhukov knew very well that Eisenhower knew this ... AND WHAT HE COULD RESPOND TO THIS JUDAH ... all the more so, Zhukov, to put it mildly, was bad. .! So we will not find fault with him: he didn’t say what he thought at that moment (well, not on ... he was to send this bastard to him) ... even though he was a bad diplomat ...
Well, the story with the divisions of the Wehrmacht ended simply: Stalin presented the Allies with our intelligence information about this strange activity for the Allies with the corresponding question, and since they needed our help against Japan (and they really needed it, despite Hiroshima), everything was given in Compliance with the Vienna Convention on the Maintenance of Prisoners of War !!!

[V. Salama]

I put a big plus, I figured it out well. Can you imagine how many more historical situations are in the same distorted form? A lot of loot was spent in due time, so that we all get brainwashed. And now the media are not particularly eager to refute all historical lies, it is still not beneficial for anyone.

[Kaa]

Quote: Romeohihnic

I will explain that in 1943, on the Kursk Bulge, our Soviet tankmen were promoted that there was nothing better than the T-34.

Did the Wehrmacht propagandize this by any chance ?: "T-34 tanks moved quickly across the freezing ground in the twilight, and their wide tracks carried them freely where the German T IVs got stuck, sitting on armored bottoms. The Russians swiftly and fiercely attacked the German. the column, dismembering it into pieces that were systematically destroyed. The riflemen of the 4th division, whose morale had been undermined in the first clash with Katukov five days earlier, again saw their shells bouncing off the sloping armor of Russian tanks. "There is nothing worse, than a tank battle against superior enemy forces. Not in terms of numbers - it was not important for us, we got used to it. But against better cars - it's terrible ... You run the engine, but it hardly obeys. Russian tanks are so agile, at close distances they will climb the slope or overcome the swamp faster than you turn the tower. And through the noise and rumble you always hear the clang of shells on the armor. When they get into our tank, you often hear a deafening explosion and the roar of burning fuel, too loud, thank God, to hear the dying screams of the crew. "Guderian drew an ominous conclusion:" Up to this point we had the advantage in tanks. From now on, the situation has changed to the opposite. "[76- С.162-163]
... The source material for the stories about the battles near Mtsensk was the report of the commander of the 4th Panzer Division, Major General Willibald von Langemann und Erlenkamp, ​​compiled by him in hot pursuit of events. A few quotes: “After the capture of Orel, the Russians first used their heavy tanks massively in several clashes, which led to heavy tank battles, since Russian tanks no longer allowed themselves to be knocked out by artillery fire. For the first time in the eastern campaign, the absolute superiority of the Russian 26-ton and 52-ton tanks over our "Pz.Kpfw.III" and IV. Russian tanks usually used a semicircular formation, opening fire from their 7,62-cm cannons from a distance of 1000 meters, throwing out monstrous penetrating energy with high precision. " [3- P.205] And further: "In addition to better armament and armor, the 26-ton tank" Christie "(" T-34 ") is faster, more maneuverable, its turret turning mechanism is clearly better. [...] During the advance from Glebov to Minsk, we did not find a single Russian tank that was out of order due to breakdowns. " [3- P.205] http://bibliotekar.ru/antisuvorov/69.htm

[Old Man57]

Quote: Kaa

26-ton tank "Christie" ("T-34")

A small but important clarification: "Christie" is an American wheeled-tracked tank, purchased in the USA in the early 30s and produced in the USSR under license under the BT-2 brand (it had nothing to do with 34ke).
And ... The weight 34ki of the sample of 39 years (with a 76mm gun) was 32 tons, and the weight of the T-34-85 (sample of 43 years with a 85mm gun) was 36 tons.

[Evil Tatar]

Quote: Romeohihnic

The tiger destroyed the T-34 from a distance of 2 km, and the T-34, in order to at least cause damage, had to approach the Tiger at a distance of 400 m (now imagine how many tans were lost so that it only approached).

If I am not mistaken, then this was the situation when the T-34 was short 76 mm. a cannon, and from the age of 43 they began to set 85 mm. and everything fell into place, but the T-34 remained the medium tank ... What?
But the Tiger needs to be compared with HF, and better with ISs, then it will be right ...

[Yoke]

Tank exhaust toxicity is a very important factor! otherwise the enemies will cough, and the ozone layer will not last forever!

[aspirin02]

I'm talking about protecting the tower from above ... :)

And by the way !!!!!!! I want to remind you that the T-90MS is a demo model of the tank .... it did not pass the GI

[Joker]

It’s interesting what will happen if the shell hits the T-90 under the turret, the gap is huge, the leopard has even less, in my opinion, this is not the case in Merkava.

[DIMS]

This is not a gap, it is such a dynamic protection design

[Joker]

Shitty design to be honest

[DIMS]

Why? These are ordinary boxes with explosives and knockout plates.

[Joker]

The plates go along the bottom contour of the tower, and at the junction of the tower there is a huge gap with no protection, by the way, I just noticed this by the way.

[sv-sakh]

in both cases, there is a "gap" at the junction of the tower with the platform, and in all cases this "gap" is the same.
However, due to the inclined arrangement of explosives, their number is increased significantly.
Stupidly count the number of elements on the stronghold and on the T-90MS and estimate how many hits the tower will withstand.
Vitality takn respectively higher at times.
And I am silent about the ridiculous "bucket on the tower of the Oplot ... The location is inappropriate and made" so it was "at the last moment. Which, moreover, interferes with the aiming of the machine gun ...

[Orey]

And what should these pictures with red stripes illustrate?

[Joker]

The height of the tank, the lower it is, the harder it is to get accordingly.

[Orey]

I’m certainly not a professional, but I don’t see how a machine gun sticking out about 15-20 centimeters makes it easier to get into the tank itself.

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Orey

I’m certainly not a professional, but I don’t see how the machine gun sticking out on the 15-20 centimeters makes it easier to get into the tank itself

This makes it easier in a computer game, and in real life on a field a moving tank try to hit the machine gun.

[PLO]

And by the way !!!!!!! I want to remind you that the T-90MS is a demo model of the tank .... it did not pass the GI

GI pass tanks, which are planned for adoption
t-90ms is exclusively export oriented, it does not need to go through the GI

[sea]

who will survive will tell

[avdkrd]

Hmm .. If in general an article on the C grade - the author compares without justification, then the conclusion is sucked out from what. How old is Abrams or Leopard2 behind? What does the complete lack of protection against ATGM of the third generation mean? What is the real combat effectiveness of the FGM-148 Javelin against these very tanks with their passive and optoelectronic protection systems? Finally, what BT samples do you think should be equal to? It is advisable to justify, and not by retyping, the performance characteristics, moreover, not complete.

[Darck]

How old is Abrams or Leopard2 behind?

If we talk about Leopard and Abrams, then they are still ahead.

What is the real combat effectiveness of the FGM-148 Javelin against these very tanks with their passive and optoelectronic protection systems?

KAZ (KOEP) like Shtor against Javelin will not help, warheads he has tandem imprisoned against D3, Contact there certainly will not save, and there is none on the tower. So Javelin’s efficiency will be high ....

[DIMS]

If you put additional sensors on the Curtain, it will help

[Darck]

What additional sensors are there?) ATGMs of 3 generations specifically, make noise-immunity and sharpen for the passage of such types of KAZ.

[DIMS]

And if the obstacle completely closes the target? There, all noise immunity is remembering the characteristics of radiation from the target. If the rocket does not see the source, then there will be no hit.

[Darck]

And if the obstacle completely closes the target? There, all noise immunity is remembering the characteristics of radiation from the target. If the rocket does not see the source, then there will be no hit.

Javelin is guided in the IR range, has several guidance channels, then it will be necessary to cover the tank with something like Saab Baracuda, and not Storoy.

[DIMS]

Yes, even a hundred. if the rocket does not see the target, the sense of it is zero.
By the way, the "Curtain" tank is not covered, it works.
The Russian analogue of "Saab Baracuda" is called "Cape". They make it difficult to capture the target before firing, but if this happens, they will no longer help.

[Darck]

Yes, even a hundred. if the rocket does not see the target, the sense of it is zero.

If, if only the grandmother ... and then you know yourself. How was you going to oppose the Stora, a missile that does not receive a modular signal, is passively guided and orientated by heat contrast. But I believe that it’s smart and you can handle it))

By the way, the "Curtain" tank is not covered, it works.

By the way, read carefully ....

The Russian analogue of "Saab Baracuda" is called "Cape". They make it difficult to capture the target before firing, but if this happens, they will no longer help.

After capture, the missile may lose its target.

[DIMS]

If, if only the grandmother ... and then you know yourself. How was you going to oppose the Stora, a missile that does not receive a modular signal, is passively guided and orientated by heat contrast. But I believe that it’s smart and you can handle it))

Dear, what is the temperature of the smoke from the "Curtain"?

After capture, the missile may lose its target.

Excellent, it won't lose from the "curtain", but from the "cape" - yes.

[Darck]

Dear, what is the temperature of the smoke from the "Curtain"?

The Curtain does not have smoke, but an aerosol curtain, I don’t know the temperature, but certainly not like an engine. How the aerosol curtain works without laser irradiation of the tank is not clear.

Excellent, it won't lose from the "curtain", but from the "cape" - yes.

I didn’t write anything about the cloak, this is again your speculation .... But Baracuda (MCS) is just designed to withstand such systems.

[DIMS]

Curtains have no smoke, but an aerosol curtain

Hmm ... Let's start with more general concepts: what is smoke?

but certainly not like an engine

It is possible that hotter. The truth cools quickly. But doesn’t it matter to us? In addition, add synthetic fluff to this smoke, and the curtain will become impermeable in the infrared range even after it cools down.

[Darck]

Hmm ... Let's start with more general concepts: what is smoke?

First find out what an aerosol curtain is, then what is smoke, where did you see hot smoke?

It is possible that hotter.

It is possible that no ....

But doesn’t it matter to us?

I look here nothing is important at all, it doesn’t even matter how the Curtain works, and most importantly from what, considering that Javelin doesn’t use laser aiming.

[DIMS]

First find out what an aerosol curtain is, then what is smoke, where did you see hot smoke?

Read what smoke is. At least on Wikipedia, nothing is easier.

I look here nothing is important at all, it doesn’t even matter how the Curtain works, and most importantly from what, considering that Javelin doesn’t use laser aiming.

Additional sensors. Simpler than KAZ, but similar in principle.
I wrote about this from the very beginning.

[Darck]

Read what smoke is. At least on Wikipedia, nothing is easier.

The curtain puts an aerosol curtain ... once again I ask where does the smoke?

Additional sensors. Simpler than KAZ, but similar in principle.

They have a diameter of several meters, at best a couple of tens, in this situation tenths of a second will pass and Javelin will blow the tank up, in such a short time I strongly doubt that aerosol grenades will be able to shoot and put this curtain. Moreover, the curtain is placed at a distance from the tank, and the javelin rocket flies from above. If there are sensors then it’s better to put some kind of hardkill.

[DIMS]

The curtain puts an aerosol curtain ... once again I ask where does the smoke?

Asked to read. Smoke is an aerosol

They have a diameter of several meters, at best a couple of tens, in this situation tenths of a second will pass and Javelin will blow the tank up, in such a short time I strongly doubt that aerosol grenades will be able to shoot and put this curtain. Moreover, the curtain is placed at a distance from the tank, and the javelin rocket flies from above.

Firstly, the Javelina rocket flies not only from above, but also to the side.
Secondly, why not create a curtain on top?
Thirdly, the sensors do not need to determine the direction, their sensitivity will be higher.
Fourth, "hard-kill" systems are much more complex and expensive.

[Darck]

Sorry to interfere, but there is a huge difference between the HE shell and the cumulative-fragmentation round. The latter in all but breaking through the armor is even less effective than a smoke shell.

What is worse?

Firstly, the Javelina rocket flies not only from above, but also to the side.

And maybe from above, how do you know how it will hit? In the war, you can’t predict everything.

Secondly, why not create a curtain on top?

Wind wind you are mighty .... you drive swarms of clouds ...

Thirdly, the sensors do not need to determine the direction, their sensitivity will be higher.

Of course you don’t need it, a rocket flies to you from the port side, you launch the veil into the starboard port or everything at once, and the rocket gained height from above the broads ...

Fourth, "hard-kill" systems are much more complex and expensive.

It’s no more difficult and no more expensive than a new tank to buy, they don’t remember how much the tank costs, but it’s 10-15% of the tank’s cost (spent on defense). They’re not that expensive, the same Ukrainian screen or Israeli trophy.

[DIMS]

What is worse?

Weak shrapnel and completely absent high-explosive effect

And maybe from above, how do you know how she will hit? In the war, you can’t predict everything

There are sensors for this.

Of course you don’t need it, a rocket flies to you from the port side, you launch the veil into the starboard port or everything at once, and the rocket gained height from above the broads ...

Is this your understanding of the work of KAZ? The same Trophy specifically strikes a missile, rather than shelling the entire side.

It’s no more difficult and no more expensive than a new tank to buy, they don’t remember how much the tank costs, but it’s 10-15% of the tank’s cost (spent on defense). They’re not that expensive, the same Ukrainian screen or Israeli trophy.

May be. However, one does not interfere with the second. We are talking about the fundamental possibility of using systems such as "Curtains" against ATGMs of the 4th generation, aren't we.
In addition, KAZ has another huge drawback - it is not very compatible with its own infantry. "Blind" is much safer in this respect.

[Darck]

Weak shrapnel and completely absent high-explosive effect

In general, it has a high-explosive effect, although it is weaker, but it also has fragmentation, plus it is universal. If you take high-explosive, then the high-explosive in it will also be less than just a high-explosive projectile. Helicopters are used cumulatively against everything, helicopters, tanks, technology, manpower, etc. So to say that he is weaker in everything is stupid.

There are sensors for this.

If the curtain is not placed over the tank, who cares what these sensors are for? And it’s not at all clear whether this curtain will help.

Is this your understanding of the work of KAZ? The same Trophy specifically strikes a missile, rather than shelling the entire side.

Because it determines the direction of the target and where and where it flies. In your case, the sensors do not need to measure the direction, and here the question arises of how you are going to implement all this.

May be. However, one does not interfere with the second. We're talking about the fundamental possibility of using systems such as "Curtains" against ATGMs of the 4th generation,

Amendment against third-generation ATGMs, and such commissions have already made the same Saab. Only there they did not pervert all this and did Hard kill with which he should fight and Softkill, so he had to fight with that.

In addition, KAZ has another huge drawback - it is not very compatible with its own infantry. "Blind" is much safer in this respect.

When the infantry near the KAZ are cut down and on the other hand when they are cut down, a signal is heard so that the infantry will fall down. The same TROPHY did not have a long range of action, so as not to kill their own.

[DIMS]

In general, it has a high-explosive effect, although it is weaker, but it also has fragmentation, plus it is universal. If you take high-explosive, then the high-explosive in it will also be less than just a high-explosive projectile. Helicopters are used cumulatively against everything, helicopters, tanks, technology, manpower, etc. So to say that he is weaker in everything is stupid.

It is so weaker that it is completely invisible.
Simple high-explosive shells do not exist.
Versatility never brought to good, and this time the shell was nothing compared to specialized ammunition.

Because it determines the direction of the target and where and where it flies. In your case, the sensors do not need to measure the direction, and here the question arises of how you are going to implement all this.

In my case, it is rough to measure the direction, in the case of "Trophy" - the exact coordinates of several points on the trajectory of an object flying towards the tank.

Amendment against third generation ATGM

It depends on the classification. We have 3rd generation systems with point-to-point guidance and laser beam control. It is quite possible that with the advent of ATGMs, guided by the operator at one point, for example, by means of fiber-optic communication, the "fire-and-forget" missiles will be attributed to the fifth generation.

Three dots, first generation: target-missile.
Two pointssecond generation: target sight.
Single point, do not exist yet (Spike NLOS has such a function, although formally the rocket refers to "fire and forget"): only goal
None, the operator does not participate in aiming "fire-forget"

When the infantry near the KAZ are cut down and on the other hand when they are cut down, a signal is heard so that the infantry will fall down. The same TROPHY did not have a long range of action, so as not to kill their own.

That is, KAZ is not a super-weapon, and it will have to be turned off at the most dangerous moments, for example, during battles in the city, when the infantry is ahead, on the sides of the tank.

[Darck]

It is so weaker that it is completely invisible.

Have you tested it?

Simple high-explosive shells do not exist.

I saw such in artillery, I don’t know if they still use it, but there were such.

Versatility never brought to good, and this time the shell was nothing compared to specialized ammunition.

What kind of shell are you talking about?

In my case, roughly measure the direction,

So all the same, you need to measure, and then the sensors are needed, where will you find such sensors that will measure at such long distances? Because the rocket speed is about 290 m / s and this is another question if they shoot from a close distance of 300-400 meters .. .

It depends on the classification. We have 3rd generation systems with point-to-point guidance and laser beam control. It is quite possible that with the advent of ATGMs, guided by the operator at one point, for example, by means of fiber-optic communication, the "fire-and-forget" missiles will be attributed to the fifth generation.

This is what classification, according to the classification of NATO and the Russian Federation, all missiles belong to the third generation, such as shot-forgot, the same Javelin, HellFire 114L, etc.

That is, KAZ is not a super-weapon, and it will have to be turned off at the most dangerous moments, for example, during battles in the city, when the infantry is ahead, on the sides of the tank.

I would like to see you blow your smoke curtain on a narrow street ..... In normal armies, the infantry is kept at a distance from the equipment on which HardKill stands and it is not 100 and not 150 meters)

[Evil Tatar]

Quote: DIMS

Simple high-explosive shells do not exist.

Quote: Darck

I saw such in artillery, I don’t know if they still use it, but there were such.

In artillery, there are high-explosive shells ...
He took off a kopachek - fragmentation shell ...
I didn’t take it off - high explosive ...

[Kars]

Quote: Darck

KAZ (COEP)

))))))))))))

Quote: Darck

Warhead in his tandem imprisoned against D3

I didn’t see something on the DZ experiments on targets, but the forgery of the results (there were a couple of bags of explosives)))

[Darck]

KAZ (COEP)

I can write KAZ (HKS) and KAZ (SKS), but then no one will understand anything.

I didn’t see something on the DZ experiments on targets, but the forgery of the results (there were a couple of bags of explosives)))

Then experienced the effect on CD.

[Kars]

Quote: Darck

Then experienced the effect on CD.

)))))))))) I am amused. Can you give how they did it?



just how do you think they did it?

Quote: Darck

(COEP)

so write

[Darck]

)))))))))) I am amused. Can you give how they did it?

Maybe at first you will learn how to formulate the questions correctly ....

(COEP)
so write

Oh already trying to be clever ....

[Kars]

Quote: Darck

Can you give how they did it?

What don’t you understand? A simple question--
although you probably think that an explosive bag with a remote detonator is the same as the OFS in the AZ conveyor.

Quote: Darck

Oh already trying to be clever ....

Well, it’s you who made KAZ on Abrash, although it was right to write

Quote: Darck

(COEP

or so on

Quote: Darck

KAZ (COEP)

[Darck]

although you probably think that an explosive bag with a remote detonator is the same as the OFS in the AZ conveyor.

You are one of those same whistleblowers ... Zionist conspiracies, UFO flights .... In this video, judging by the explosion, about 35-40 kg (which is less than the equivalent of BC T72) what does the OFS and A3 have to do with it? the whole tank.

Well, it’s you who made KAZ on Abrash, although it was right to write

I didn’t get it, but the Americans, before trying to learn how to write correctly, start by understanding the topic of KAZ.

[Kars]

Quote: Darck

In this video, judging by the explosion, about 35-40kg

Much more ---- look for excuses about fake leadership.

Quote: Darck

what does the OFS and A3

)))))))))))) once again laughed --- but for you I will explain --- they are well, very far from the roof of the tank where Zhdavelin gets)))) and then the explosion even
BEFORE breaking through

Quote: Darck

Shells with explosives light up

Well, yes of course --- especially there are a lot of them on the roof of the tower, and the fact that propelling explosives specifically make them burn, and do not explode, it's useless to tell you))))

Quote: Darck

and the Americans

Quote: Darck

This is not me vtyuhal, and the Americans

Once again I am laughing --- I am glad that you no longer spread about KAZ on Abrams and correctly write-KOEP))))) the lesson was not in vain)))))

A photo? Well, this is not an explosion of a propellant explosive, but just a detachment of the OFS PART from a fire that could last for several minutes or even hours (the crew usually manages to leave the car

I should not explain what Abrams and KAZ are on the video (in your opinion, of course, before my lessons you have it)

[Darck]

Much more ---- look for excuses about fake leadership.

I wrote my opinion, if you do not like it, then seek and refute.

once again ridiculed --- but for you to explain --- they are well, very far from the roof of the tank where Zhdavelin gets)))) and then the explosion even

Hmm about Javelin and tanks, you know even less than about KAZ ....

especially there are a lot of them on the roof of the tower, and the fact that propelling explosives specifically do so that they burn, and do not explode, it’s useless to tell you

Don’t you tell IF you know something .. I still laugh ...

I’m glad that you no longer distribute about KAZ on Abrams and correctly write-KOEP

KAZ, KAZ, KAZ on the abrams ... on the KAZ abrams ... we will continue talking about this, as soon as you begin to understand this issue, and hand over a referee on this subject, then we'll talk.

A photo? Well, this is not an explosion of a propellant explosive, but just a detachment of the OFS PART from a fire that could last for several minutes or even hours (the crew usually manages to leave the car

Well, you are smart .... the crew died, the explosion occurred due to the RPG entering the TOWER, if my memory serves me.
And then for some reason you posted an enchanting video with an abrams, the abrams and the T72 have a different arrangement, in the case of the abrams, excess pressure is released through the opening hatches, and in the T72 it throws the whole tower ... Damn, I already spent so many lessons for you and it's all free ...

[Kars]

Quote: Darck

I wrote my opinion, if you do not like, then seek and refute

You have a direct road to the Mythbusters))) at least look at the real explosions.

Quote: Darck

Hmm about Javelin and tanks, you know even less than about KAZ ....

Oh really Javelin in the video did not attack the tank in the roof?)) And its developers are not proud of the possibility of paralyzing the tank from above)))
So I know more than you.

Quote: Darck

Don’t you tell IF you know something .. I still laugh

Not useless, you're too weak.

Quote: Darck

KAZ, KAZ, KAZ on abrams ...

Oh, really, you didn’t notice the rocket launcher on the burning Abrash))) So understand KAZ as much as you want, but you are simply not able to understand))

Quote: Darck

if my memory serves me.

honestly? so check your memory, otherwise you don’t have any --- post a report with the number of the car (well, did you understand the tank?) and the reason for its death.

Quote: Darck

, in the case of abrams, excess pressure is ejected through the opening hatches, and in T72 it ejects the entire tower

really hatches? and maybe the roof knockouts)))))) the teacher is unfinished. And you certainly won’t understand - but the difference is how you see a little - Abrashu is still worthless, and the lack of normal OFS reduces the efficiency of M1A1

[Darck]

You have a direct road to the Mythbusters))) at least look at the real explosions.

Someone a minute ago referred to the official figures ... now excuses have gone ... hmm ... if there is nothing to write, it is better not to write anything.

Oh really Javelin in the video did not attack the tank in the roof?)) And its developers are not proud of the possibility of paralyzing the tank from above)))

The defeat of the tank from above does not mean that the tank will be hit only in the lid ... But how do you know that ... so I forgive.

So I know more than you.

What statements .... and then on the classics of the genre you propose to measure the genitals ....

Not useless, you're too weak.

Have you already written something on the topic, otherwise these attempts to otmazatsya ...

Oh, really, you didn’t notice the rocket launcher on the burning Abrash))) So understand KAZ as much as you want, but you are simply not able to understand))

I do not see your essay and this phrase is a rocket launcher ... you dishonor me.

honestly?

Of course, dude, although you are naive, you can check the T72 tank crew, Mikhail Molchan, Maxim Pasko and Dmitry Burdenko all died ... you can check on google, this is such a search engine ...

true hatches? and maybe kick panels on the roof))))))

And this does not change their effectiveness .... you couldn’t write anything on the topic, therefore again I turned on blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah ....

Abrash didn’t care, and the absence of normal OFS reduces the efficiency of M1A1

Oh, we already went into the forest and into the discussion of normal and not normal OFS, if you were smarter, you would know that instead of it stands the universal ascolo cumulative.

[Kars]

quote = Darck] Have you already written something on the topic [/ quote]
I'll give you a link to educate yourself
http://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/sea/5156/%D0%9C%D0%95%D0%A2%D0%90%D0%A2%D0%95%D0%
9B%D0%AC%D0%9D%D0%AB%D0%95
[quote = Darck] I do not see your essay and this phrase is a rocket launcher [/ quote]
Someone promised you an abstract))))))))) [quote = Darck] you dishonor me [/ quote]
Your level of knowledge is more)))))))))
[quote = Darck] T72 tank crew, Mikhail Molchan [/ quote]
[quote] Destroyed around 14.30 on August 11 in the village of Zemo-Khviti (Zemo-Quiti) (some sources mistakenly indicate that in the adjacent village of Zemo-Nikozi). The marching column of the 693rd motorized rifle regiment entered the village and was ambushed. The tank was hit from a grenade launcher, as a result of being hit in the tank, the ammunition detonated, which led to the death of the entire crew consisting of Lieutenant Mikhail Molchan, ordinary driver of the ordinary military service Maxim Pasko and operator-gunner of the ordinary military service Dmitry Burdenko [/ quote]
And? Where did you go? And I'm sorry if he disabled the crew and then, as a result of the pajar, the BC detanated. So give the link where the tower is broken.
[quote = Darck] And this does not change their effectiveness .... [/ quote]
This shows that you don’t understand it, and you don’t understand the topic, couldn’t identify Abrams feed before. Now I’ve come up with hatches. As for the efficiency, watch the video. The partition wall could not stand it, or it was opened as the fire breaks out and from the commander’s hatch. [quote = Darck] and not normal OFS, if you were smarter, you would know that instead of it there is a universal ascolo cumulative. [/ quote]
clown, just this is the absence of normal OFS shells)))))

And look at the M239 smoke grenade launcher abrashi

[Kars]

Quote: Darck

Someone a minute ago referred to the official figures ... now they went

Not really, if you are so weak-minded, just go to the Mythbusters and see the explosions. And you want the apologies from Lockheed Martin.

Quote: Darck

The defeat of the tank from above does not mean that the tank will be hit only in the lid ... But how do you know that ... so I forgive

Is it really in the bottom?)))))))))))))) And on this video the defeat is EXACTLY in the roof of the tower, or do you have other videos that can be discussed? [

Quote: Darck

offer to measure genitals ....

Is it your sexual dissatisfaction that says? Or is there a problem with the size? You know a proverb - who has something to hurt, that’s what he says))))
I feel sorry for you.

[Darck]

And you want the apologies from Lockheed Martin to find it. There in English --- they sent me a link.

Dude, you rushed to argue, so what reason should I look for something? You shout that there were a lot more explosives, so bring the data, don’t be dumb already.

Is it really in the bottom?))))))))))))))

For you, the tank is only divided into a tower and a bottom ....

And on this video, the defeat is EXACTLY in the roof of the tower, or do you have other videos that can be discussed? [

Damn at first you say that the tank was destroyed remotely, now that all the same the rocket hit the roof ....
In any case, here's another video that shows what strikes not only the tower.

Does this your sexual dissatisfaction say?

I see you often like to talk with guys about topics of members and sex life .... How long has this been happening with you?

[Kars]

Quote: Darck

I watch you often like to talk with guys about members and sex life

I? Did you even move? Your quote

Quote: Darck

measure their genitals ....

bring mine)))) well, you and misery.

Quote: Darck

Damn, at first you say that the tank was destroyed remotely, now that the rocket hit the roof

Take off the handbrake, the rocket had a trajectory into the roof of the target, and the explosion occurred a little earlier than it flew. And a complete explosion, so that the operation of the Pturs warhead was not visible.

Quote: Darck

you another video

42 seconds - talk about javelin is shown TOU)))

In during look at 1.19-1.20 as the tank explodes))))

The column of tanks - and shown armored personnel carriers)))

And at 3.48, too, a VERY huge explosion)))))))) even the BMP did not fall apart.

And almost always visible defeat with a dive.

Quote: Darck

what strikes not only the tower

Quote: Kars

Well, yes of course --- especially there are a lot of them on the roof of the tower,

It is about the fake video.

And listen carefully with 4.14)))

And the fake starting at 4.50 ---- is just epic, especially the slow-motion jump from approach to an already big explosion)))
Diagnosis === you are such kinches brains razed))))))

[Darck]

I? Did you even move? Your quote

I did not ask you to make excuses, but you often use analogies with the genitals and other garbage, this is strange.

bring mine)))) well, you and misery.

What is everything you are trying to rise .... go to any discussion and see these analogies ... I am ashamed to cherish such garbage.

Take off the handbrake, the rocket had a trajectory into the roof of the target, and the explosion occurred a little earlier than it flew. And a complete explosion, so that the operation of the Pturs warhead was not visible.

Dude, you decide, so she hit the tower or not?

And on this video, the defeat is EXACTLY in the roof of the tower,

These are your words .... You assert that Javelin strikes into the tower, then he doesn’t paralyze at all, we’ll agree so the next time you won’t write any garbage that you’re not sure about so that you don’t wring my time. second, do you have a photo of the tank exploding before the rocket from Javelin hit it?

42 seconds - talk about javelin is shown TOU)))

An empty cut of frames ... there is still sand showing, but we are also talking about Javelin. We are talking about where Javelin is striking, so do not go into the forest.

And almost always visible defeat with a dive.

And that this does not prevent him from shooting in a straight line and hitting the tank not in the tower, which is shown in the video. (Defeat not in the tower)
Then again comes your blah blah blah blah .... conclusion, from you I did not see more than one evidence, only balabolstvo again, so go for a walk.

[Kars]

Quote: Kars

And fake starting at 4.50

The fact that Javelin can also along a flat path or hit the side surface by the way is not denied by me, but we do not have this case.

Quote: Darck

which is shown in the video. (defeat not to the tower)

Proof of what? Here’s a screen shot of a movie. But there’s no rocket explosion.
So it’s free)))))) dude.

[Kars]

Quote: Darck

but you often use analogies with the genitals and other garbage, this is strange

what are you, but you used it in this thread. And before that you wanted to tell me about the difference between boys and girls --- so I'm sorry but you're just lying, a little pervert.

Quote: Darck

I am ashamed to cherish such garbage

Make an effort on yourself, otherwise it looks like you're trying to otmazatsa.

Quote: Darck

Dude, you decide, so she hit the tower or not

Undermining the tank from the inside does not allow you to see how the frames jumped in your video. But it went to the tower along the trajectory. But they didn’t show the warhead coming off to us - well, like in the video from the BMP, but immediately jumped to the big bang --- fake.

Quote: Darck

These are your words

My.

Quote: Darck

You assert that Javelin strikes the tower

in the given video.

Quote: Darck

And secondly, do you have a photo of the tank exploding before the rocket from Javelin hit it?

I have a video with the absence of an explosion of a warhead rocket, and the explosion does not understand why (or rather 200 kg of an explosive device without a shell type (several bags of explosives)

Quote: Darck

Empty frame slicing

But do not talk about the sand.

Quote: Darck

We are talking about where Javelin strikes, so do not go into the forest.

They told you the same, and the video is a bunch about the TOP.

Quote: Kars

And listen carefully with 4.14)))

Quote: Darck

And that does not stop him from shooting in a straight line and hitting the tank not in the tower

At what second? And along which path? Along the flat? Or mounted? And we do not go into the forest but discuss either my video or yours

Photos of other T-72s - why are their casings not so damaged as in the video?

[Darck]

http://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/sea/5156/%D0%9C%D0%95%D0%A2%D0%90%D0%A2%D0%95%D0%


9B%D0%AC%D0%9D%D0%AB%D0%95

What the hell are you throwing? Do you want me to laugh again?)

Your level of knowledge is more)))))))))

Do not suck)

And? Where did you go? And I'm sorry if he disabled the crew and then, as a result of the pajar, the BC detanated. So give the link where the tower is broken.

What the hell are you talking about, what disabled the crew, did you forget how to read?

as a result of getting into the tank, the ammunition detonated,

Not as a result of the fire! And what I read for a long time in the tower, then their column was ambushed and this tank received RPGs in the tower.
Here you go ....

The hit from the RPG-7 grenade launcher to the rear of the tower, as a result of detonation of the ammunition, the tank was torn to pieces. The tower flew several tens of meters and broke through the reinforced concrete visor of the Sovprof building.

What, too, the vile Americans planted explosives?

the penetrating septum either could not stand it, or was opened as fire breaks out of the commander's hatch.

Or, or, or ... I don’t see anything there at all, everything is in smoke, but where does the abram when we talk about the T72?

clown, just this is the absence of normal OFS shells)))))

As soon as you do not try to get out to seem smarter ... Then you first balabol

the absence of normal OFS reduces the efficiency of M1A1

Although this is generally from a different field .... but even worse, once you poke your nose that there is a cumulative ascolo instead ... you, due to low intelligence, are visited by another even more worthless idea ... to write this phrase.

this is precisely the absence of normal OFS shells)))))

Not understanding that the Americans went towards universality, not your stupidity ... At the same time, the dude who has never seen a tank in his eyes, not to mention the abrams, writes about his low efficiency in view of the lack of general physical fitness ....

And look at the M239 smoke grenade launcher abrashi

No, you definitely already broke all the records of stupidity .... where does RPG and aerosol PUs come in? By the way, I never saw your official numbers, so how many explosives were there?

[DIMS]

Although it’s generally from a different area .... but even worse then, as soon as you poke your nose that there is a cumulative ascolo instead ...

Sorry to interfere, but there is a huge difference between the HE shell and the cumulative-fragmentation round. The latter in all but breaking through the armor is even less effective than a smoke shell.

[Kars]

Quote: Darck

9B%D0%AC%D0%9D%D0%AB%D0%95

What the hell are you throwing

Well, you at least read the basics of explosives. You will know what shells are equipped with)))))

Quote: Darck

You scream that there was a lot more BB

about 200 kg

Quote: Darck

only to the tower and the bottom

quite for you. where it can get from above, where shells are spread? Are they really in the MTO))))) something else to list for you - what would you increase your knowledge?

Quote: Darck

What the hell are you talking about, what disabled the crew, did you forget how to read?

I brought what is written there, there is no indication of the place and instant detonation.

Quote: Darck

this tank received an RPG in the tower.

Where is the TOWER? For your information, the tank still has a side, and throwing away towers at least hundreds of throws does not prove anything.

Quote: Darck

What, too, the vile Americans planted explosives?

and what are you jumping on the other? a clown caught fire? give a photo of the case is comparable.

Quote: Darck

As soon as you try to get out to seem smarter

I have proven it.

Quote: Darck

there stands instead a cumulative ascolic ...

I know Abrams’s ammunition, unlike you, which cannot determine its parts. And CBS is worse than OFS against infantry.

Quote: Darck

aerosol PU?

damn well, you turned on the brake again to the end --- this is your KAZ on Abrash)))))

Quote: Darck

towards universality,

neighing. thanks. universalization didn’t bring to good,

Quote: Darck

I never saw your official numbers, so how many explosives were there?

Did I say what they are? Bring a phrase. There are apologies where they are for the SEARCH))))))

[Darck]

Well, you at least read the basics of explosives. You will know what shells are equipped with)))))

Boy give the composition, not tryndi.

about 200 kg

A boy of 200 kg will smash the T72 into small molecules, all the more blown up inside .... Go for a walk until you show the data ... I won’t read further, today is enough nonsense.

[Kars]

Darck,

Quote: Darck

Boy give the composition, not tryndi.

Ballistic gunpowder? And so you do not know what shells are equipped with)))))))))

Quote: Darck

A 200kg boy will carry the T72 into small molecules

I say go to the myth destroyers))))))) clown.

Quote: Darck

T72 on small molecules, especially those blown up inside

There, the destroyed Georgian T-72s with almost whole buildings are higher, compare with what remains. And then go kill yourself against the wall)))))))))

[Darck]

Ballistic gunpowder? And so you do not know what shells are equipped with)))))))))

Boy, this powder has a different composition that burns well.

I say go to the destroyers of myths)))))))

Something got stuck in you, it began to be repeated often ... I’m just destroying your myth.

There, the destroyed Georgian T-72s with almost entire hulls are higher.

Do you know how many shells were in them? I doubt it very much, it turns out you’re carrying garbage again, didn’t I see a photo of a tank explosion and not a rocket, where is it? And where is the letter that they supposedly sent you, which should say about two hundred kilograms spent? Boy, you’re balaboling here, puff ring ....

[Kars]

Quote: Darck

that burns fine

Did I say something opposite girl?

Quote: Darck

Do you know how many shells they had

More BC could not be))))) but this is your pathetic excuse.

Quote: Darck

I never saw a photo of a tank explosion and not a rocket, where is it?

buy glasses.

Quote: Darck

about two hundred kilograms spent

about 200 I tell you this and the screenshots confirm it. Look at the collapsed T-72 body, let it be the last thing you see.

[Kars]

Quote: Darck

And where is the letter that supposedly

From:

Robert C. Reid
Director

Office of Ethics and Business Conduct

Lockheed martin corporation
6801 Rockledge Drive Bethesda, MD 20817
Telephone [phone]

Unusual interest caused by the appearance on the site of our company of a fragment of a video recording of field tests
Javelin shoulder-fired anti-armor system among visitors to several Russian-language sites could not remain without attention from the leadership of Lockheed Martin. The present message is intended to clarify the situation with the explosion of the T72 tank model and to apologize to the citizens of Russia whose patriotic feelings were so deeply affected.

Indeed, as some of the correspondents of this forum correctly noted, Javelin-class devices are not capable of causing such a severity to a real tank in any of the countries of the world, and, unfortunately, at the time of testing, we did not have a model of the tank of another country for firing practice, fragments from which are currently on the Lockheed Martin website. It is also true that the effect of the explosion of the tank layout was enhanced by the additional installation of a radio-controlled explosive device weighing more than 80 lb (-40 kg). The additional explosive was experimental and was part of another test program.

Once again, we apologize and hope that the above facts will be sufficient to mitigate the conflict situation in this and other forums.


Sincerely,
Robert C. Reid

[Kars]

and knowing your limitation in the districts I will highlight in red and explain, otherwise you will become the blizzard.

Quote: Kars

weighing more 80 lb (-40 kg)

Weight as a video is MORE, so there is no exact one.

Quote: Kars

explosive was experimental

Well, it’s like an excuse that they did not know the power, but most likely they laid about 200 kg of conventional explosives, and they are embarrassed by this, it will be too stupid to look at it.

Quote: Kars

install radio controlled explosive device

How do you think--

Quote: Darck

Then experienced an effect on BC

you can experience the impact on the BK using an explosive device? And why do they need radio control? if they want to study the effect on the BK)))

[Darck]

And by the way, a dead end, especially for you a letter that says Sac May Dick! Looks like you liked this Robert ...

Reports have reached this office regarding the widely circulated video of the Javelin shoulder-fired anti-armor system, and of a fraudulent letter from this office claiming that the video is not truly authentic.

Nothing could be farther from the truth. The JAS is the world's premiere personal anti-tank system, and it was demonstrated in a real world test. While it's true that the T-72 tank that was destroyed was not a "working model" in that it had to be towed into position, it was otherwise completely authentic and original. No explosives of any kind placed in or around it.

In fact, our engineers had to make some minor structural repairs to it so that it would not be destroyed too easily. Many of the welds had deteriorated from normal use, and were repaired to better than original specification, using American steel. In addition, bracing was added to reduce torsional & longitudinal flex. This bracing nearly filled the crew compartment. Measurements taken to construct the bracing were in Imperial units, not of the inferior metric type which may have contributed to the tank's poor construction. Once this bracing was in place, our tests indicated that this Russian tank was very nearly as durable and tough as any '60s era western main battle tank that may have been at the bottom of the sea for a few years.

As the video clearly shows, even with all the additional structural help, the sorry Russian death trap was no match for an American missile. In fact, the tank was heard to whine and cry as it saw the missile approaching. After the test we received a thank you letter from the Almighty - an indication that he was well pleased by our ridding his planet of one of these third-rate metal abominations.


Sincerely,
Robert C. Reid
Director

Office of Ethics and Business Conduct

Lockheed martin corporation
PO Box 34143 Bethesda, MD 20827-0143
Telephone 1-800-LM ETHIC

[Kars]

Well, it's like drums of sufferers. By the way, there is no mention of loading ammunition and refueling.

And even you stuck with

Quote: Darck

In this video, judging by the explosion, about 35-40 kg (which is less than the equivalent of the BK T72) what does the OFS and A3 have to do with it? Explosive sleeves scattered throughout the tank

Once again he laughed about the fact that OFS has nothing to do with it, and the sleeves are scattered))))

In general, I strongly urge you to see the Mythbusters especially how they blow up a concrete mixer - at least you will see a real explosion.
And by the way, I’m moving similar photos of the T-72 with the corps also destroyed --- didn’t they ever get out at least with 12 OFS in the BC (this is the weight of the explosives that you mentioned)))))))

[DIMS]

You are rubbling for the second day. What are the shells or charges in the BC, if the Americans heat the inside to test ATGMs with IR-guided targets?

Impact tests on the missile defense are carried out not by starting, too expensive, but by remote detonation of the warhead installed on the target

[Darck]

A piece of the same tank

[Darck]

Once again he laughed about the fact that OFS has nothing to do with it, and the sleeves are scattered))))

although you probably think that an explosive bag with a remote detonator is the same as the OFS in the AZ conveyor.

These are your words ... now I’ll say goodbye once again it may come to you ... where does the OFS in A3, when basically the sleeves light up, creating excessive pressure, which goes along the path of least resistance and pushes the turret. Here is the detonation of the BC one the tank dug into the ground and destroyed the other two, in which the cartridges caught fire and threw out the tower. Do you have any questions, wise guy? As you can see in the photo, it’s even worse than in that video .... And I threw it at 30 meters in my view above, she broke through a roof or visor.

[DIMS]

creating excess pressure that follows the path of least resistance and pushes the tower

The path of least resistance is the hatches. And we get a fucking pillar of fire. After all, combustion does not occur in the charging chamber at the appropriate pressure, but in air. Gunpowder in this case burns relatively slowly. For example, "macaroni" from additional bundles burns for 10 seconds

[Darck]

The path of least resistance is hatches.

Depends on pressure and gas expansion rate.

After all, combustion does not occur in the charging chamber at the appropriate pressure, but in air.

What does it mean in the air? Combustion takes place in a tank, where there is an enclosed space, and more than one charge burns.

if the Americans are heated from the inside to test the ATGM with IR targeting?

Why would they heat the target? If it’s not movable, it’s enough just to capture it visually, besides Javelin’s head with a high-explosive action, we will get a big boom at the entrance ....

Impact tests on the missile defense are carried out not by starting, too expensive, but by remote detonation of the warhead installed on the target

Who needs to test warheads in the T72? Experienced Javelin himself and at the same time most likely laid explosives to simulate the BC.

[Kars]

Quote: Darck

Depends on pressure and gas expansion rate

For any, these are hatches.

watch your video on 1.24.

[Darck]

For any, these are hatches.

watch your video on 1.24.

The hatches in the tank are closed, the pressure area on the hatches is small due to their smaller diameter, the hatches will open if the pressure is not so strong and the gas expansion rate is not greater than in the same javelin. The pressure area over the entire tower is greater than the pressure area at separate hatch. The same thing when logically detonating a bomb, the blast wave should go into the hatch and exit through it, but in reality it breaks the entire tank or opens the entire tower.

[DIMS]

Depends on pressure and gas expansion rate.

The pressure rises relatively slowly. It just raises the hatches. And a pillar of fire. The tower is torn down only by the explosion of one of the shells.

It all goes something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAu5G6C_sbc

RPG - ignition of charges - sequential detonation of several shells.

As you can see, it has nothing to do with the Javelin challenge video.

In addition, Javelin has a head with a high-explosive action, at the entrance we get a big boom boom

From now on, more details

Who needs to test warheads in the T72? Experienced Javelin himself and at the same time most likely laid explosives to simulate the BC.

What for? To increase the danger to personnel? But the effect of warhead missiles on the tank’s tank is still being tested. Even at the test stage of the warhead itself

[Darck]

It all goes something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAu5G6C_sbc

What the hell is this? It's not the T72, but the explosion was a clear machine that exploded not childishly, the poor crew.

As you can see, it has nothing to do with the Javelin challenge video.

If you want to find the general, look at the photo that I uploaded here, nothing left the tank after the explosion of the tank and scattered it even further. So there is a common, even on that video that machine scattered no worse.

From now on, more details

What specifically interests you?

What for? To increase the danger to personnel?

Dear, what are you talking about? What nafig staff, you at least get acquainted with the video.

But the effect of warhead missiles on the tank’s tank is still being tested. Even at the test stage of the warhead itself

As we saw, instead of the warhead there was an explosive charge, because no one needs to put shells in the tank. Moreover, the result of this will not change, as can be seen in the photo.

[DIMS]

If you want to find the general, look at the photo that I uploaded here, nothing left the tank after the explosion, and scattered it even further.

After successive explosions of several shells. Detonation of all shells at the same time due to the cumulative jet is impossible

What specifically interests you?

High-explosive warhead "Javelina" and its action on the tank.

Dear, what are you talking about? What nafig staff, you at least get acquainted with the video.

I got acquainted. There are people on the video.

As we saw, instead of the warhead there was an explosive charge, because no one needs to put shells in the tank. Moreover, the result of this will not change, as can be seen in the photo.

But this is already the closest to the topic: for the sake of advertising, the effect of the rocket on the target was clearly exaggerated. Civilians give up and will be immensely proud of their American unmatched weapons.

[Darck]

After successive explosions of several shells. Detonation of all shells at the same time due to the cumulative jet is impossible

Why are you writing all this? Now I also have to write to you that it is not necessary for the kuma to hit the shell, it is enough for her to get into the sleeve and the entire tank of the khan.

High-explosive warhead "Javelina" and its action on the tank.

And what did you think it would cost just a godfather? There the charge creates pressure and high temperature in the tank, to destroy manpower, here it can knock out hatches from it (created pressure).

I got acquainted. There are people on the video.

And what danger does they face? They fired from behind cover from a remote distance.

But this is already the closest to the topic: for the sake of advertising, the effect of the rocket on the target was clearly exaggerated. Civilians give up and will be immensely proud of their American unmatched weapons.

In general, the whole topic went on about this, you apparently overslept it) And it has no analogues, this is a chip of Russian designers)

[Kars]

Quote: Darck

it is enough for her to get into the sleeve and the entire tank of the khan.

Not necessarily.

Quote: Darck

There, the charge creates pressure and heat in the tank,

how will it penetrate armor? An English high-explosive armor-piercing explosive that has kinetic energy, and a crushed warhead does not provide penetration of ballistic armor

Quote: Darck

here from it (created pressure) can knock out hatches.

To do this, he needs to explode inside the tank. And not from the outside.

[Darck]

Not necessarily.

Reality proves the opposite.

how will it penetrate armor? An English high-explosive armor-piercing explosive that has kinetic energy, and a crushed warhead does not provide penetration of ballistic armor

Why did you write this? A head with a high-explosive action and a high-explosive fragmentation are two different things.

To do this, he needs to explode inside the tank. And not from the outside.

Not necessarily.

and yours also means? Letters?

You still do not understand

Yes, stupidity. You know that in tanks the explosives are inside thick, metal objects --- they are called shells, 3.4 kg of explosives come in 20 kg of steel, and they are also dispersed throughout the tank.

Dude, you know that each shell has its own tratyl equivalent and come from exactly this tratyl equivalent ....

Tin for someone like you. Equivalent, equivalent))))

That's what people do when they can’t answer for their words ....

In the video, an explosion of about 200 kg of explosives

it will not be enough where there are another 30 tons of scrap metal, which should dot all around.

Here are those

A tower, a caterpillar and two rinks - there are no larger parts. The rest was scattered in a trifle by a hundred to two hundred meters. Funnel meter and a half depth.

Go look for the rest Profesor ....

[Kars]

Quote: Darck

Reality proves the opposite.

You live in your own reality, where there are no fire suppression systems, high-explosive shells do not have shells, etc.

Quote: Darck

A high-explosive and high-explosive fragment head are two different things.

right? maybe you will clarify then the classification of what you are talking about? otherwise you regularly carry a blizzard

Quote: Darck

And what did you think it would cost just a godfather? There the charge creates pressure and high temperature in the tank, to destroy manpower, here it can knock out hatches from it (created pressure).

ABOUT WHAT is it? Or is it not just a godfather))))

Quote: Darck

Not necessarily.

He certainly tried to apply the rule of least resistance. And the cumulative ammunition does not carry excessive (slaughter) pressure in the reserve volume.

Quote: Darck

In the video, an explosion of about 200 kg of explosives

Don't you understand? Read alright
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A2%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1
%8B%D0%B9_%D1%8D%D0%BA%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%82

Quote: Darck

Funnel meter and a half depth.

There is no such depth, this time. And why are you embarrassed to post something?
I really wonder where the torsions are

Quote: Darck

Profesor ....

don't suck up.

[Darck]

You live in your own reality, where there are no fire suppression systems, high-explosive shells do not have shells, etc.

If you were smarter, you would know that there is no alternative reality, but we know the saying about the grandmother, so let’s skip your humiliation ..... In this video, you can clearly see how the extinguishing system worked first-rate ... not not to mention all those tanks that hacked the towers for nafig ... So, go to the elementary class and tell your tales there. As for shells, for high-explosive action use shells of large caliber from 152mm, with a thin and durable shell and a large number of explosives, driven by contact fuse.

can you clarify then the classification of what you are talking about?

High-explosive action, that you do not know what it is or you think that it is only in the name of a high-explosive shell?))

ABOUT WHAT is it?

About Javelin if you still haven't caught up)

And the cumulative ammunition does not carry excessive (slaughter) pressure in the reserve volume.

We are talking about Javelin, not RPG 7, when penetrated, Javelin creates excess pressure and high temperature inside the object. Why are you carrying any garbage? I’d already have taken it and found out about this complex.

[Kars]

Quote: Darck

along the path of least resistance and pushes the tower

Well, you really drove it away, the powder is BURNING and not detanating, it tears off the tank tower)))))))

Quote: Darck

Here is the detonation of the BC one tank dug into the ground

call a doctor urgently.

Quote: Darck

destroyed the other two, which caught fire

From the explosion a few meters from them? Have you collapsed from the oak?

[Darck]

Well, you really drove it away, the powder is BURNING and not detanating, it tears off the tank tower)))))))

And how is the gunpowder burning and not detonating, pushes the projectile ....

From the explosion a few meters from them? Have you collapsed from the oak?

Barankevich knocked out one, it caught fire, two more tanks arrived to help him. At that moment, the ammunition of the first exploded, destroying all three at once.

So run to Barankevich with this question ....

[Kars]

Quote: Darck

And how is the gunpowder burning and not detonating, pushes the projectile ....

Well, what a deep question, the gunpowder and the projectile are in the barrel, and while locked, the volume of the chambers is small. And the tank doesn’t have much gunpowder, but compared with the amount of booked.

Quote: Darck

So run to Barankevich with this question ....

Anatoly Barankevich: We left the town. Together with the guys began to organize a defense. Near the headquarters of the peacekeepers are located: where to block something. Tanks are coming up at this time. He took a grenade launcher - it is necessary to show them an example, yet I served as a military man all my life. Shot, hit, the tank exploded. The guys also started to shoot. Burned several tanks. We gathered later, set tasks. Well, let's go clean the city. Cleaned up almost all. Until the 10th, until the approach of our forces, they held him. There, not only was the wrecked tank there, the guys were destroying too, and talking only about me is somehow not solid. All who stayed in the city are real heroes

And those two tanks that were not particularly damaged went without ammunition, you need to understand?

[Darck]

Well, what a deep question, the gunpowder and the projectile are in the barrel, and while locked, the volume of the chambers is small. And the tank doesn’t have much gunpowder, but compared with the amount of booked.

Well, smart answer me, is there so much free space in the T72? Is it closed there and the BC does not consist of a single charge .... what is it so hard to catch up with?

Anatoly Barankevich: We left the town. Together with the guys began to organize a defense. Near the headquarters of the peacekeepers are located: where to block something. Tanks are coming up at this time. He took a grenade launcher - it is necessary to show them an example, yet I served as a military man all my life. Shot, hit, the tank exploded. The guys also started to shoot. Burned several tanks. We gathered later, set tasks. Well, let's go clean the city. Cleaned up almost all. Until the 10th, until the approach of our forces, they held him. There, not only was the wrecked tank there, the guys were destroying too, and talking only about me is somehow not solid. All who stayed in the city are real heroes

About 30 tanks were knocked out there ....

And those two tanks that were not particularly damaged went without ammunition, you need to understand?

Not particularly damaged? Their towers nafig torn off, BC most likely did not detonate.

[DIMS]

Well smart answer me, is there so much free space in the T72?

Read at your leisure about loading density. You will have to fill the entire internal volume almost to the eyeballs so that the powder behaves the same as in a charging chamber.

[Kars]

Quote: Darck

Is there so much free space in the T72

11 cubic meters of reserved volume. So free ---- 5-7 meters are found. With a charging chamber up to 10 liters.

Quote: Darck

About 30 tanks were knocked out there ....

But about the ignition of charges of 125 mm guns from an explosion nearby I did not see. Give a link.

Quote: Darck

Not particularly damaged? They got nafig towers

Well, compared with the fact that the tower flew away, and without the detonation of the BC, the tower does not come off the shoulder strap.

[Darck]

Don't you understand? Read alright

I’m asking you dozens of times what explosives were there?

200kg BB

so what is explosive? There are tegnu, spent, hexogen, all kinds of mixtures, for example RDX + TNT, they all have different brisance, speed of detonation, etc. So if you put 200kg of TNT, the result will be different than 200kg HMX.
If you meant the TNT equivalent, then write like that, and once again I will whine over you ...

don't suck up.

How did you get to such a life?) Profssor ...

There is no such depth, this time. And why are you embarrassed to post something?

I’m embarrassed to read all the garbage that you’re scribbling here, so I’m missing it, you want to keep the link. Http: //starshinazapasa.livejournal.com/438748.html

[Darck]

Did I say something opposite girl?

Again, this is your sexual concern, you really have problems ... go to a psychologist. I don’t know what you said, you only carry all kinds of crap.

More BC could not be)))))

Dead end, they ask you. Do you know how many shells there were in the BC?

buy glasses.

Yeah, I have nothing else to buy glasses for you, ask your parents.

about 200 I tell you this and the screenshots confirm it. Look at the collapsed T-72 body, let it be the last thing you see.

Deadlock, why are you so overexcited? Especially for stupid people, I say that different explosives have different explosive forces, and this will result in different results.

more than 80 lb (-40 kg)

More than 40 kg, 40.5 for example, more than forty, as I taught 35-40 kg. And I advise you to go and get sterilized so that your kids do not suffer like you.

Well, it’s like an excuse that they didn’t know the power, but most likely they laid about 200 kg of conventional explosives,

Dead end, now what is the usual explosive like? Name, now you started to get off ...

you can experience the impact on the BK using an explosive device? And why do they need radio control? if they want to study the effect on the BK)))

Now dead end, give me all this text in English ....

[Kars]

Quote: Darck

Boy are you balabol here, windbag

as a video you again first touched on gender, and of course that I called you a girl, since you already started to focus on the sexes)))))

Quote: Darck

Dead end, they ask you. Do you know how many shells there were in the BC?

Do you want to say do you know? You don’t have to answer - just bring a photo with a similar destruction of the hull. Even you can hull the hull from the tank whose tower you posted.

Quote: Darck

different explosives have different explosive powers

you blunt, if the exact type of explosives is not indicated, then for the person in the topic (it’s not you, you are a loser) it means the TNT equivalent - it’s generally accepted. but what to expect from a person whose explosion pressure of Abrams’s bomb is released through the hatches.

Quote: Darck

And I advise you to go and get sterilized

Late)))

Quote: Darck

what was the usual explosive

Why do you need a name? Usual is trotyl. But you never know what is there - see Mythbusters, there are a lot of explosives.

Quote: Darck

Now dead end, give me all this English text

I can’t do it and I don’t want to. You provided a note - read. Oddly enough, it doesn’t mention the equipment of the tank with ammunition. Even with such a hit of instant detonation of the ammunition, it cannot be so powerful.

[Darck]

Unable and unwilling

Because these letters are fake, designed for people like you ... But you still do not understand this.

Oddly enough, there is no mention of the equipment of the tank with ammunition.

And they don’t equip it with ammunition, but they put explosives down, I’m on the equivalent.

Why do you need a name?

You claim 200 kg and don’t know 200 kg of what? Generally ....

you are stupid, if the exact type of explosives is not indicated, then for a person in the subject (it’s not you, you are a loser) this means the TNT equivalent

Again, these attempts will rise .... you definitely have some kind of problems ... Since this video doesn’t have 200 kg of waste, so I ask you 200 kg of what?

just bring a photo with a similar destruction of the body.

On those another piece of that tank I’ve died)))

Late)))

Sorry...

[Kars]

Quote: Darck

these fake letters

and yours also means? Letters?

Quote: Darck

And they don’t equip it with ammunition, but they put explosives down, I’m on the equivalent.

Yes, stupidity. You know that in tanks the explosives are inside thick, metal objects --- they are called shells, 3.4 kg of explosives come in 20 kg of steel, and they are also dispersed throughout the tank.

Quote: Darck

You claim 200 kg and don’t know 200 kg of what? Generally ....

Tin for someone like you. Equivalent, equivalent))))

Quote: Darck

... Since there is no 200kg of waste in this video at all, that's why I ask you 200kg of what?

In the video, an explosion of about 200 kg of explosives

Quote: Darck

On those another piece of that tank I’ve died)))

it will not be enough where there are another 30 tons of scrap metal, which should dot all around.

[viruskvartirus]

Interesting video...

[Manager]

Quote: Darck

So the effectiveness of Javelin will be high ....

Unfortunately I agree. There is no armored vehicles that will withstand a direct hit from Javelin. There is only one way - this is to avoid aiming at the target. But expensive technologies are already needed here.

[Darck]

There is only one way - this is to avoid aiming at the target.

Or put something like Trophy ....

[Manager]

Quote: Darck

Or put something like Trophy ....

You’ll go broke on all tanks. Yes, and it protects more likely from 1 guidance or shot.

[Darck]

You’ll go broke on all tanks. Yes, and it protects more likely from 1 guidance or shot.

There aren’t a few shots from different sides, and it’s not so expensive, a destroyed tank or a damaged one will not be cheaper to repair, all the more so now there are such types of iron fist that will already change the path of a flying OBPS, and this is a very cool thing.

[Andrey_K]

And if at the time of the shot the tank will be enveloped in a cloud of smoke and at the same time will not stand still, then what?

[Zynaps]

And let's not forget that tanks by themselves usually do not fight. and therefore the first shot of the "Javelin" crew will be the last for him (and everyone who is nearby).

[erased]

Who is worse, who is better - only battle will show. And by the way, not tanks fight, but organizations in which tanks can be structurally included.
Which was clearly shown during the Great Patriotic War!

[Nechai]

Quote: Joker

Moreover, they are not adapted to participate in local conflicts, and their use in urban battles will lead to sad consequences.

Any tank, a combat vehicle placed in such conditions, by the will of the country's leadership, as in Grozny, will most likely be destroyed. Bullshit planning, provision, deliberate setup in a deliberately losing position is blamed on the creators of the machines. Tanks, in fact, were not created for the purpose of chasing bandits around the yards. But without destroying paths, borders, etc. In local conflicts (the article calls the war against the seperatists in this way) tanks can only play the role of STRENGTHENING the Vashnoy makhry, and even pumping an ambush firing point, giving supra to spirits ..
<There is such a wisdom - everything in the army is done in 4 stages: intimidation-entanglement-punishment of the innocent - rewarding those who are not involved>
I wonder why WHERE, WHERE, in any tank-producing country of the World, dosi has not created an Optoelectronic (thermal imaging) PASSIVE LONG-TERM MEASURER? A piece of unprepossessing, almost software solve the issue! And it gives a BIG advantage for the first shot, especially.

[Odessa]

Nechai,

The thing is plain

In Israel, they also say so, the life of (any) tanker is difficult and not kazist.

[V. Salama]

Quote: "These models, having appeared with a delay of 20 years, no longer meet modern combat conditions and survivability requirements."
Unfortunately, that says almost everything. However, I would like to compare the characteristics of their guns and sights with the "Abrams", for example. Maybe things are not so bad, it is not weapons that are fighting, but people.

[Alexey Prikazchikov]

Okay, now let me throw myself in gamma. In my opinion, the t90 is better, and I will sing it out for the happiness of a comrade:

1 He is prettier

2Electronics is still better, even the Germans recognized that suo MSCI is unique.

3 It is better made even outwardly it is visible. And now, the facts UVZ has included a sea of ​​enterprises, including former tank plants, in its consortium. He is constantly upgrading his equipment. I think the state of the KhBCM Morozov is not worth talking about.

4 Because he is ours, dear.

[Manager]

Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov

Okay, now let me throw myself in gamma. In my opinion, the t90 is better, and I will sing it out for the happiness of a comrade:

1 He is prettier

2Eelectronics is still better, even the Germans recognized that suo MSCI is unique.

3 It is better made even outwardly it is visible. And now, the facts UVZ has included a sea of ​​enterprises, including former tank plants, in its consortium. He is constantly upgrading his equipment. I think the state of the KhBCM Morozov is not worth talking about.

4 Because he is ours, dear.

I agree! And I repeat! OLE OLE OLE OLEEE! T90! Champion! Ole Ole Ole Ole! Russia ! Forward!

[Su24]

Here you are annealing)))

[Kars]

Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov

He is prettier

)))) this is subjective.

Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov

better even the Germans recognized that suo MSCI is unique

And what did they see and test it?

Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov

4 Because he is ours, dear

Probably the most correct parameter))))))))))

[Darck]

2Electronics is still better, even the Germans recognized that suo MSCI is unique.

Aha is unique and DOES NOT HAVE ANALOGUES?) I did not see anything unique in it, although it may be so for Russian developers.

[Alekseev]

In order to make an objective analysis, it is not enough to read brochures with TTX and see photos on the Internet.
It is necessary to exploit, and not a month or two. Conduct comparative military (not factory, they are doing well) tests. Know the price, labor costs, which components are used, what is yours, what is imported, what are those. solutions applied. And then in 6td already at 27 degrees the fuel supply was limited, and now it is up to 55 without restrictions. For those who know the Kharkiv 2-stroke diesel firsthand, this is very wonderful. Yes, more environmentally friendly ... Where in the war without the environment ... Or pit, or it’s time to give the Nobel Prize out of turn.
An article for children, lovers of military magazines.
And the tankers (and those who joined them) are coming!

[Orey]

Quote: Alekseev

. Yes, more environmentally friendly ... Where in the war without the environment ... smile Either the pi or the Nobel Prize, it is time to give out of turn.

I think environmental friendliness means toxicity and the impact of these exhausts on personnel. For example, when moving tanks in a convoy or the number of cancers.

[Tamerlan225]

That bastards lick everything !!!!!!!!!! you need to patent as an iPhone and sue if that. At least we will receive money . And if about tanks, it’s not THE MAIN THING HE IS THE MAIN WHO MANAGES THEM .... !!!!

[Yazov]

And for the bucket on the roof, the road will not stop?

[vorobey]

Quote: Yazov

And for the bucket on the roof, the road will not stop?

Blue may, but will not risk

[Nechai]

Quote: Orey

For example, when moving tanks in a convoy or the number of cancers.

On the march, DUST causes a big problem. Oncology at the long-lived officers, the rest and stroke enough ... In peacetime, of course.
That's interesting, but do the ammunition also already have environmental and humanitarian requirements? Antipersonnel mines, of course, are also outlawed, because barbarism, mutilation of an adversary.

[DIMS]

Eco-friendly ammunition for firing at their landfills. As for anti-personnel, it seems like they decided to reduce the requirements. Allowed, but with the obligatory self-destruction device, for cluster munitions - a guaranteed detonation of all submunitions.

[igor67]

I wanted in my own words, so to speak, the opinion of a "teapot", but I liked the phrase in the article more: Both tanks are a conceptual development of the T-64 tank, created about half a century ago.

., One, as they say now, the platform, and earlier, the largest use of standard parts and mechanisms.

[Splin]

The only thing the tanks lack is a powerful pushonochka to insert Leclerc, Leopard2A7 and K2 into the ass.

[Hamul]

Hmm.
And who is the author Alexander Basharov ??? Is he special in tanks?

These models, having appeared late for 20 years, no longer meet modern combat conditions and survivability requirements. Moreover, they are not adapted to participate in local conflicts, and their use in urban battles will lead to sad consequences

The first question is on what basis is this conclusion made? What are the 3rd generation ATGMs? why there are no statistics on foreign tanks and the opposition of our RPGs?

If I remember correctly - as recently as six months ago there was data on the range of destruction of T-90A targets by tanks - it hits 8km, and Abramsy 6?

video on this topic + a comprehensive test of tanks - so here is only one 90MS - came home alive.


Why is the service not comparing? Training? Speed, fuel consumption? Weight, height? PRICE????

It’s interesting that now only the most modern tanks are fighting in the world?

For those who want domestic tanks - YOU ARE SUCH SUPER SPECIALISTS IN TANKING?

Sorry, if not the topic with these examples, the author needs to carefully study the characteristics

[Kars]

Well, of course ---- Altai is still just a comp.model.a Leopard apparently took 2A4 by weight

[Hamul]

Did you watch the video?

[Kars]

Quote: Hamul

Did you watch the video?

Is it the one that starts with Leclerc? And continues with Roquit? Then again Leclerc? Then Leopard 2A5 weighing 62 tons.

don’t laugh ---- I didn’t look further. There is no Altai as such. The prototype and the experienced one seem to be there. But the engine does not seem to be there. And so on.

[Hamul]

http://pro-tank.ru/blog/705-main-battle-tank-of-turkey-altay

it is quite possible
For what I bought - but sold.

But the question is - the Russian T-90 Tank is known all over the world and is serial. Modifications are also on stream.
The T-90 won in the aggregate of all the pros and cons of Western cars.

Where does the article claim ?????

[Kars]

Quote: Hamul

T-90 won in the aggregate of all indicators of the pros and cons of Western cars

it’s just a pull for the ears. The Americans will say that their Abrams are better, the Germans are a leopard.
I have Challenger 2 in the first place (unless of course Oplot is excluded as not serial, low-series)
you want - there are topics on this subject and my opinion is there too.

[bask]

Tanks Oplot-M and T90 MS are proctically twin. Soviet school of tank building. They are the “grandchildren” of the T64 created in the 60s. This is a deep modernization of the T80 and T72. in the stern of the tower. Their potential is proctically identical. I think the cost too. What will be new, let's see how they promised in 13-15 years .. Then compare.

[Nechai]

Quote: Hamul

For those who want domestic tanks - YOU ARE SUCH SUPER SPECIALISTS IN TANKING?

Sergey, +! Tanks are intended to play the role of chemically active substances that destroy not the organism of the enemy army itself, but its "nerves" and "lymph nodes". The commandment of Hitler's tankers: "Panzer division acts like water. She is puts light pressure on enemy defenses и moves only where it does not meet resistance"

[sined0707]

Having appeared late for 20 years, these models no longer meet modern combat conditions and survivability requirements

I’m a layman on this issue, tell me what modern tanks are now ???

[Makk]

The bottom line should have been written in yellow.

[ankh-andrej]

It would be nice to compare them in winter patency in the snow, which is deeper. The bulwark is three tons heavier by weight. Will it affect or not?
[media = http: //youtu.be/o9QheCT8ZPY]

[Phlegmatic person]

Yes. As I understand it, we will upgrade the T-72 to the "slingshot" and wait for the Armata. And the tanks really have the same fate. maybe the next article about the t-64e and "SLINGSHOT".

[Bort radist]

If you want a fight, start an impartial comparison!

[Kievan]

Who knows: in the photo of the stronghold on the tower near the panorama, like three DZ blocks, there are a bunch of mounts next to it ... is this for the DZ that you didn’t install or why else?

[Cashpoint]

Yes, they didn’t install it, apparently it is not needed there, since there is the size of the frontal reservation ..

[Kievan]

Quote: CashPoint

I don’t need it because there is a frontal reservation dimension ..

A protection against ptura like javelina

[Cashpoint]

it’s just that the roof of the tower begins where the DZ stands, and before it there is a thick wall (in fact a compartment filled with composite filler) with a normal thickness of 600-700 mm ... there is no point in placing a DZ over it ...

[nikkon09]

These models, having appeared late for 20 years, do not meet the modern conditions of battle and the requirements for survivability. And the more they are not adapted to participate in local conflicts, and their use in urban battles will lead to sad consequences.
Foreign technology at this level, too, I believe that there is no lateness, rather anticipating antitank weapons, but this is another topic. Without hysteria, there is still a lag behind foreign tanks, any tank will not live long

[_Igor_]

nothing is clear from the article, I'm certainly not an expert, but specialists do not need such articles.
conclusion 1 article about nothing unequivocally "-"

[nikkon09]

_Igor_,
I agree the author thinks in the old fashioned tanks are not now a key figure on the battlefield only in interaction with other types of the modern army, and there seems to be no special lag on this topic either.

[Sasha 19871987]

yes, without an experienced crew it’s just a piece of iron

[oletym]

Excluding all comments, I'm sorry, I only registered on the site, although I’ve been looking at it for 2 years. Question. Is Russia going to fight with Ukraine?
T80 is worse than T72 ?, I mean the further development - Oplot and T90, respectively.

[phantom359]

oletym, Stupid question. Russia will not go to war with Ukraine, unless provoked by "Svidomo patriots," prompted by guess who? ( right).

[_Igor_]

http://www.uvz.ru/product/70/57 хотя бы тут автор почитал бы

oletym Yesterday, 23:38 PM new 0
Excluding all comments, I'm sorry, I only registered on the site, although I’ve been looking at it for 2 years. Question. Is Russia going to fight with Ukraine?

absolutely agree the meaning of comparing? The opposition itself is not correct. the question of further development and world trends is interesting, and what place do both samples occupy in the world, and what is beyond the horizon?

[Husseyn]

They compared and compared, but the most important thing is WHEN Ukrainians created their Bastion and WHEN Russians T-90S ... Although Ukraine is worse than Russia, but here it is ahead in terms and quality, the only one does not have the same influence resource as Russia to advance their tanks, otherwise the T-90 would be a kayuk on the world market.

[redcod]

The armor is strong and our tanks are fast! All tankers with the upcoming holiday!

[Sars]

There will never be invulnerable tanks, there have been attempts to create land battleships (in Germany), and in view of the inability to withstand the charge of communal charges, abandon medium tanks (USA, France).
That T-90, that Oplot - good MBT - tank destroyers. And to protect them from ATGMs in their ranks should be an analogue of the Shell on the tracks.
And certainly for fights in urban conditions, you need a special combat vehicle.
(During the storming of Berlin, light T-70 tanks were actively used. The aiming angle of their 45 mm guns made it possible to fire at the upper floors of buildings).

[Su24]

And what, in your opinion, the shell will bring down ATGM?

[Bormann]

As for our tanks, tons 72, tons 80, the crews did not make any claims on the reservation (this is for use in Grozny). As for Abrams and our RPG, I think that the aforementioned hit the streets of Grozny on the night of 31.12.94 .01.01.95 on XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX, then losses in military equipment would hardly differ from ours.

[Zmitcer]

Quote: BormaNN

then losses in military equipment would hardly differ from ours.

would be different !!! would be significantly different! it’s only for Russian generals, the main thing is to fulfill the order and make the ruler pleased. the Americans would not send their tankers to the city without reconnaissance and cover.

[Sars]

Quote: Su24

And what, in your opinion, the shell will bring down ATGM?

The carapace is not literal. We need a car with weapons specifically against ATGMs.

[Darck]

The carapace is not literal. We need a car with weapons specifically against ATGMs.

Yeah, I need ... KAZ has been setting it for twenty years) or even more ...

[mikael]

where did you take this moron, what did he compare here, where are such characteristics as protection by homogeneous armor, vertical aiming angles, turret turning speed, rate of fire, where are the norm for landing and disembarking of the crew, where is the time to bring the vehicles to full combat readiness, is there the possibility of firing from a closed position, about tactics of conducting combat in the mountains, is a complete professional, the tank is inherently not designed for combat in the city, and can be used there only as part of assault groups when supporting infantry and receiver artillery, both self-propelled and towed

[Sapsan136]

The tanks are not identical, they are completely different, despite the resemblance, and even then they are only for amateurs ... The ancestor of the T-90 was the T-72, and the Bastion was made on the basis of the T-80UD .... On the T-90 more a reliable chassis, a more reliable engine, and the build quality in the Russian Federation and Ukraine is even funny to compare ... In Ukraine, even the VAZ-2110 could not be recreated normally, a copy produced in Ukraine is worse than almost everything, even the quality of welding ... A gun on T -90 is much better, because in Ukraine today they are trying to produce guns at the Soviet plant for the production of conventional civilian pipes .... Finally, new ammunition has been developed in the Russian Federation, and in Ukraine they are using what was still in the USSR .... Combat use of T tanks -90 in Syria showed their high combat stability, but the Oplot and Bulat showed themselves in the Donbass very mediocre ... By the way, foreign customers vied with refusal to supply Ukrainian armored vehicles, even in favor of the Chinese ... By the way, I want to remind you that during the Tank Biathlon in Chinese tanks, while passing denial of the obstacle course, the skating rink fell off, which was not even with the Soviet T-72 ...