Post-Tsushima pogrom

74
Post-Tsushima pogrom

We must start with the commanders of the Pacific fleet - such a position was received alternately by Makarov, Skrydlov and Birilev. The first one died, the second ...

N. I. Skrydlov


Nikolai Illarionovich Skrydlov is a controversial figure. He didn't make it to Port Arthur, that's a fact. He did not want to break through there, this is also a fact. But the VOK managed to direct the actions from the shore, and he did well. Well, I also gained good command experience during the war. But this experience turned out to be unclaimed - on December 20, 1904, Skrydlov was recalled and appointed to the Sharashkin office as a member of the Admiralty Council and to the Imperial Society for Rescue on Waters. In 1906, however, they remembered him: in the conditions of the revolution, a knowledgeable and tough commander was needed on the Black Sea. But in 1907, the admiral was thrown into retirement with a uniform and a pension. In 1918 he will die in Petrograd in hunger and poverty. The grave is lost. The knowledge and experience of one of the best sailors in Russia turned out to be unclaimed: pure politics, someone had to leave, and these someone are those who took part in the war.



A. A. Birilev


Birilev Aleksey Alekseevich, strictly speaking, did not command the fleet. He was appointed to the post on May 8, 1905, and arrived in Vladivostok to inquire about Tsushima. The same Tsushima, in the preparation of which there is also his fault - it was he who was responsible for the equipment of the Second and Third Squadrons.

But, unlike those who stood on the bridges and lost their lives and health, Birilev made a career - he became the naval minister of the Empire immediately after returning from the Far East on July 29, 1905. He did not distinguished himself in anything special in the post, and his reforms were extremely fragmentary and inconsistent, and in early 1907 he resigned, continuing to pursue politics in the State Council until his death in 1915.

Buried at the Nikolskoye cemetery, the grave, as usual, has not survived.

The fighter Skrydlov is in rescue on the waters, the non-fighter Birilyov is the minister.

The squadrons managed to command and stay alive - Stark, Viren, Bezobrazov, Rozhdestvensky and Nebogatov.

With the latter, it is clear - surrender and trial.

Z.P. Rozhestvensky


With Zinovy ​​Petrovich, in principle, too - it was impossible to leave him in an official post after the Tsushima disaster, nevertheless there was such an attempt, and Rozhdestvensky was dismissed from the post of chief of the General Music School only on February 6, 1906. During the time allotted to him, he advocated the construction of battleships, the strengthening of mine artillery up to 120 mm, for broad reforms in the fleet ...

All this was not useful in any way, and after the trial the admiral simply lived out, dying in 1909, cursed by Russia for what his fault was minimal. The grave, as usual, has not survived. And the knowledge and experience of the organizer of an unprecedented campaign and a participant in the largest naval battle at that time turned out to be unclaimed.

You can treat him in different ways, but not use at least as a consultant and not prepare a generalized work on the experience of organizing the transition and preparation for battle ... An extreme was needed, he was found, which was reflected wherever possible: from documents to journalism.

P. A. Bezobrazov


Petr Alekseevich Bezobrazov, who personally led the VOK on a military campaign, seemed to be promoted, but ... The senior flagship of the Baltic Fleet after the departure of Rozhestvensky's squadron sounds mocking, and the acting chief of the General Staff before Zinovy ​​Petrovich's return is a purely technical position.

Why he did not lead the Second Squadron, in principle, it is clear - oncology, the man lived out, however, managed to be the chairman of the Tsushima court and died in the same year. The grave has traditionally not been preserved.

What to say? The man did everything he could.

O. V. Stark


And the last admiral in command of the squadron - Oscar Viktorovich Stark - is another example of the extreme and guilty for everything. His fault in the poor preparation of the First Squadron is minimal, if not zero: how much money they gave, so they prepared. He did not set up the boats, but did not find the money for the dock. He did not come up with an armed reserve, he did not forbid not to succumb to provocations by installing anti-mine nets. He, a geographer-researcher, a participant in the Russian-Turkish war, a brilliant connoisseur of the Far East, was simply removed and became the anti-hero of Port Arthur, who, from the point of view of society, slept and ruined everything. And in 1908, the man, after whom the bay and the strait were named, was completely thrown into retirement.

Why was his experience and knowledge not useful either during the war or after? Big mystery.

R.V. Viren


Well, and Robert Nikolaevich Viren, a brilliant cruiser commander, but a man who became the commander of what was left of the First Pacific Ocean, in many ways by accident and did not shine with anything special: neither before nor after. Still, Kronstadt is a training course for which a person with a similar characteristic is more than suitable:

Eminently disciplined and fulfilling. An excellent naval officer who knows and loves naval affairs. He is very strict and demanding when he leaves the service, he is a great pedant. Little trusting in his subordinate officers. He is very careful about his ship, as well as about the ranks of his subordinates.

But as a naval commander, he did not take place. And he could not take place - the jump from the commander of the cruiser to the commanders of the blocked and beaten squadron just does not work out, and the talents ...

Diligence is good for a subordinate. Nevertheless, unlike many, he did not disappear and stayed in the cage.

Younger flagships


With the junior flagships it is much more interesting: the commander of the VOK Iessen, the commander of the cruiser squadron of the Second Squadron Enquist, the junior flagship of the First Squadron Ukhtomsky - all were retired.

Jessen, who was the only one who had a relatively successful battle against the Japanese (after all, losing only "Rurik" in those conditions is almost a victory), immediately after returning to the Baltic, he received a reprimand, and then - resignation.

Enquist was seriously thinking about trying to judge ... For the rescue of three cruisers and the crime that, unlike Nebogatov, he thought with his head and did the right thing. But in the end - just resignation.

Ukhtomsky is simply at first at the disposal of Alekseev, and then - resignation.

The only one who passed this cup, and then not for long, was the organizer of the mine defense of Port Arthur Mikhail Fedorovich Loshchinsky. There are no complaints against him, on the contrary. But - resignation in 1908, at exactly the same time the commander of the Vladivostok port, Greve ...


There were also examples of the opposite, more precisely - an example. This is Admiral Grigorovich, who jumped from the port commander in six years to the Minister of the Navy, having not been in a single naval battle, but being a good business manager.

The rest of our naval commanders of the Great War - in the Russo-Japanese maximum, commanders of ships of the second rank. There were many brilliant sailors among them, but accelerated careers are not good for them. And knocking out a whole generation of admirals for the sake of public opinion - even more so.

Let's discard Rozhestvensky, although, as for me, his experience was invaluable for the fleet, especially such experience and bought at such a price.

But what were the others guilty of?

Even most of the ship commanders who survived Tsushima were thrown into retirement - although the same Dobrotvorsky, Shvede (the senior officer of the Eagle), Ozerov (the commander of the Sisoy the Great, appointed ... commander of the floating beacon), Popov (the commander of the Vladimir Monomakh , appointed head of the pilotage service)?

In fact, after the Russo-Japanese pogrom, when the fleet lost a large number of admirals and officers in battles, a second pogrom took place, already post-revolutionary, when the culprits of Port Arthur and Tsushima were found.

They found, of course, not in Petersburg, but among those who led squadrons and ships into battle, who received wounds and risked their lives. Than they struck at the fleet, no worse than Tsushima, in many respects interrupting the continuity of generations. Instead of objectively studying the problems, they simply found extreme ones and appointed heroes, among whom were often people without special abilities.

All this influenced the restoration of the fleet, and discipline, and the events of the times of the revolution. But that's okay, politics won out over common sense. Well, it was not Alexei Alexandrovich who was to be judged, in fact? And not to cover the role of the future passion-bearer Nikolai Alexandrovich?
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  1. +19
    July 16 2021
    The article caused some bewilderment. My personal opinion is somehow free The author mixed the guilty with the innocent and shifted the failures of their career from the tsar father and his entourage to society and the people.
    The principle of one-man management in appointing the posts of the first 5 classes of the Table of Ranks under Nicholas II has not been canceled. So in this situation it is necessary to study the issue from the other side, and not complain and grieve.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. +8
        July 16 2021
        Directly alive I see how junior flagships and ship commanders "survived Tsushima" - beaten commanders!

        Those. do you mean to say that after a lost battle all the officers should be scrapped? Then, in principle, we would not have been able to win in the 45th, because in the 41st the entire command staff would have been removed and fired. This is according to your logic ...
        1. -10
          July 16 2021
          I think that Budyonny, who had done so well, was sent to engage in horse breeding?
          I think that there is no need to distort either - is there a revolution in the country? Not a war? I think that at 41 they weren't just dismissed and fired, but also shot - did it help?
          1. +7
            July 16 2021
            I think that at 41 they weren't just dismissed and fired, but also shot - did it help?
            Not always and not all, starting to look for the extreme, they quickly realized that a little more and generals would have to be appointed from among the lieutenants. “We have no Gindeburgs,” Stalin realized in time.
            1. -11
              July 16 2021
              Name at least one general who managed to defeat him in the 41st, and what then ended up in a responsible area? And Tsushim was not there with Port Arthurs. Don't you think you've started to play around?
              1. +8
                July 16 2021
                Ivan Vasilyevich Boldin?
                1. +11
                  July 16 2021
                  Ivan Vasilyevich Boldin?

                  Future Marshal Konev. They say that Zhukov personally interceded after the defeat at Vyazma.
              2. +9
                July 16 2021
                "Name at least one general who managed to defeat him in the 41st"
                Baghramyan will go?
                1. 0
                  October 1 2021
                  in 41 Baghramyan - only a colonel, in the modest post of chief of the operational department of the front headquarters.
              3. +7
                July 16 2021
                For example Konev and Rokosovsky.
          2. +2
            July 17 2021
            Thinking is not yours! But ignorance is your best friend! Before setting in this context as an example of Marshal S.M. it would be nice to study thoroughly his biography and activities as a military leader ...
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  2. +13
    July 16 2021
    Well, it was not Alexei Alexandrovich who was to be judged, in fact? And not to cover the role of the future passion-bearer Nikolai Alexandrovich?
    Of course not. We always have "a good tsar, boyars and people are bad."
  3. -3
    July 16 2021
    many times, I repeat again - Stirlitz walk along the corridors and, in addition to the parachute dragging behind him, the crocodile gene also follows him. curtain.
    the system perished and everything in it was the same.
    the admirals were not with those who went to the greatness of Russia. that's why they were pressed and spat out ..
  4. +14
    July 16 2021
    Ozerov from "Sisoya" was guilty of his complete incompetence and alcohol dependence. Up to the point that his own officers were going to remove from command of the ship on the eve of the battle.
    1. 0
      July 16 2021
      "their own officers were going to be removed" in which case the gentlemen officers were decent.
      What not to say about Yeltsin's entourage, after all, his entourage knew perfectly well that he was an alcoholic and unable to govern the state. But nothing of the kind. They smirked quietly, but publicly: "Boris Nikolayevich, health to you, thank you for the book, maybe write more?"
  5. +2
    July 16 2021
    .But that's okay, politics won out over common sense.
    Unfortunately, this is not uncommon in the world today.
  6. -1
    July 16 2021
    And the great experience of Rozhdestvensky ... It was so in demand, so in demand ...
    Our entire fleet still feels this loss.
    1. +3
      July 16 2021
      "And the great experience of Rozhdestvensky ... It was so in demand, so in demand .."
      but try to lead a rabble squadron across three oceans. it's not knocking on the keyboard
      1. +2
        July 16 2021
        I've heard this fable all my life. Any other admiral would have done the same.
        As a result of his transition, the squadron did not know how to maneuver and even walk without lights.
        1. +1
          July 17 2021
          "I've heard this fable all my life"
          Now would some admiral bring the fleet from the Baltic to Vladik? any other?
          1. 0
            July 17 2021
            And why do we need an admiral if he cannot make the connection where necessary? There is no fleet of this size now. But there are no such problems in principle. Navigation, radar, communication. If a sailor, you take it and go. These are ships, not a herd of sheep. There are commanders there. It’s not clear to me what Rozhdestvensky did there. Well, such a squadron was not carried out before him. But he himself did not buy coal, provisions and provide diplomatic escort. It was he who kept all the commanders in good standing. But they went before him and after. And without Rozhdestvensky.
            1. 0
              July 17 2021
              "And why do we need an admiral if he cannot lead the connection to the right place?"
              but it seems to me that he will not, they are not sharpened for that, but only for loyalty and inflexibility
              1. +2
                July 17 2021
                Come on. A hundred times, in the order of rotation, the ships from the Baltic to the Far East and back went. All in two or three months calmly fit. One Rozhdestvensky was in a rush to the war for seven months. You gave an unsuccessful example.
                1. +3
                  July 18 2021
                  By the way, after all, "Tsesarevich" - the prototype of "Borodino" went through Suez, like "Peresvet" - the same type of "Oslyabe".
                  1. +3
                    July 18 2021
                    Like all six Japanese 15-thousanders. The depth of the Suez Canal at the beginning of the 1900s is 9 meters. Enough for battleships. With the advent of dreadnoughts, by the beginning of WWI, they deepened to 14 meters.
                    1. +1
                      July 18 2021
                      Well, you see, they acted according to the principle "so that something does not work out" and "out of harm's way", so as not to sit down in Suez. I have no other explanation. Just like then they will go with transports to the Korea Strait, the shortest and easiest way (according to the weather), and if there is a coal with spare parts with you.
                      1. 0
                        July 19 2021
                        Due to possible diplomatic complications.
                      2. +1
                        July 19 2021
                        What are the complications? Nebogatov and partly 2 Pacific passed the Suez.

                        And only the type "Borodino", "Oslyabya", and three cruisers went around Africa.
                2. 0
                  July 19 2021
                  "A hundred times, in the order of rotation, the ships went from the Baltic to the Far East and back."
                  via SMS or Suez?
                3. +1
                  July 19 2021
                  This, apparently, is the style of the ZPR. Show that everything under him is d ur a ki, and he is one hero. He helped a lot to strengthen, for example, the first TO squadron "Oslyabey" and "Aurora" just before the war.
                  And not the entire squadron was sailing around Cape Good Hope. The other half, without his "efforts", quite calmly reached Madagascar through Suez. Nebogatov has already been mentioned. Yes, on the 2nd squadron, if you count, probably half, if not more senior officers served in the Far East. They knew the way. laughing
                  1. 0
                    October 9 2021
                    Quote: mmaxx
                    the other half, without his "efforts", quite calmly reached Madagascar through Suez

                    Compare the draft of the ships
                    1. +1
                      October 9 2021
                      The draft has nothing to do with it. The point is that ZPR is credited with some kind of supernatural ability, if possible, to lead a squadron. There were no other geniuses like that.
                      If the first squad had less sediment, there would be no less swearing and swearing. 100%. And the fact that the 2nd squadron did not learn to walk without lights is entirely the merit of the commander.
                      1. 0
                        October 9 2021
                        Quote: mmaxx
                        The draft has nothing to do with it. The point is that ZPR is credited with some kind of supernatural ability, if possible, to lead a squadron. There were no other geniuses like that.
                        If the first squad had less sediment, there would be no less swearing and swearing. 100%. And the fact that the 2nd squadron did not learn to walk without lights is entirely the merit of the commander.

                        I mean, it has nothing to do with it? In order to conduct the ebr of Borodino with the Suez Canal, they had to be unloaded. Or do you think that Rozhestvensky was a masochist, leading the squadron around?
                      2. 0
                        October 9 2021
                        Well? Tell me, why are admirals needed if they cannot navigate 5-10 ships where necessary? Some incredible art? Oh and ahi, please do not bring them. He called himself an admiral - go and provide. Otherwise: get out.
                        All are tearful. Threatening the squadron without lifting a finger is normal. And to spend it in almost peaceful conditions is a kakbe feat. Are you kidding me? The Soviet Navy would have multiplied by zero without hesitation.
                        No sediment, go around the cape. What for you have been paying money all your life and have given you gold shoulder straps?
                        I am not a military man, but I drank this, and then I am perplexed. What kind of kindergarten? Gruzdev called himself get in the body. Why navigate / navigate? So as not to spend a hike? For 30-40 years the ships roamed back and forth that way. Why? To emphasize the heroism of Rozhdestvensky? Yes, this is for any normal admiral for sport and an honor should be.
                        There is nothing to tell fairy tales here. He was completely capricious on that crossing. These are not the people who play with spillikins and cannot hold their battleship where it is necessary and not get lost.
                        From the Magellans and Columbus, 500 years have passed.
                        It’s enough to listen to this crap, let alone explain.
                      3. 0
                        October 10 2021
                        Quote: mmaxx
                        Well? Tell me, why are admirals needed if they cannot navigate 5-10 ships where necessary? Some incredible art? Oh and ahi, please do not bring them. He called himself an admiral - go and provide. Otherwise: get out.
                        All are tearful. Threatening the squadron without lifting a finger is normal. And to spend it in almost peaceful conditions is a kakbe feat. Are you kidding me? The Soviet Navy would have multiplied by zero without hesitation.
                        No sediment, go around the cape. What for you have been paying money all your life and have given you gold shoulder straps?
                        I am not a military man, but I drank this, and then I am perplexed. What kind of kindergarten? Gruzdev called himself get in the body. Why navigate / navigate? So as not to spend a hike? For 30-40 years the ships roamed back and forth that way. Why? To emphasize the heroism of Rozhdestvensky? Yes, this is for any normal admiral for sport and an honor should be.
                        There is nothing to tell fairy tales here. He was completely capricious on that crossing. These are not the people who play with spillikins and cannot hold their battleship where it is necessary and not get lost.
                        From the Magellans and Columbus, 500 years have passed.
                        It’s enough to listen to this crap, let alone explain.

                        So he actually spent that. And in conditions of no peacetime. Often times: such squadrons were never driven either before or after. And the question is not what to get lost or not to get lost, although there was no radar and glonass then. The crews of the ships were not sailing. , hence the inability to keep the line and speed, hence the nervousness. By the way, about the whims, will you sound it?
                4. 0
                  October 9 2021
                  Quote: Saxahorse
                  then once, in the order of rotation, the ships from the Baltic to the Far East and back went. All in two or three months calmly fit.

                  In peacetime, yes, both with experienced crews and not on new ships, and not so many, entering friendly ports
                  1. 0
                    October 9 2021
                    In general, all claims were drawn to the ears. The battleship "Tsarevits" passed through the channel without any problems, having spent a day unloading a huge amount of trash .. Moreover, there is an assumption that the British exceeded their requirements. The depth of the Suez Canal is 8.5 meters since 1894. Since 1905, the depth is called 9 meters.

                    In general, it is not a problem to pass through the channel by simply slightly drying the compartments with coal. All Japanese battleships, and they are all 15 thousand tons. , this channel passed as calmly as the Tsarevich.

                    Rozhdestvensky's voyage around Africa is a glitch that is difficult to explain personally by Admiral Rozhdestvensky.
                    1. 0
                      October 10 2021
                      Quote: Saxahorse
                      The depth of the Suez Canal is 8.5 meters since 1894. Since 1905, the depth is called 9 meters

                      Well, firstly, you will not argue with the owner of the channel, what is the depth there? You simply will not be allowed if the draft is greater than the voiced one. Secondly, the draft of Borodino is 7.9 m. the belt went under the water. And this for a minute, meter and a half. In order to hold 5 ships (Oslyabya 8.7), they must be unloaded, transported unloaded by 100 km and loaded again. Well, thirdly, the owners of the canal could simply refuse, citing that Russia is a belligerent country, or having received such a directive
                      1. 0
                        October 10 2021
                        Quote: Pilat2009
                        And thirdly, the owners of the channel could simply refuse, citing that Russia is a belligerent country, or having received such a directive

                        If you haven't noticed, half of Rozhdestvensky's squadron calmly passed the Suez Canal. Moreover, this was originally planned. Those. knew initially that the British will miss. It may even be recalled that half of the shares in the Suez Canal were held by the French. And a sharp trick of the British with an attempt to block the Russian ships would have had an unambiguous and much sharper opposition from France. The French are extremely interested in the neutrality of the Suez Canal and the British will not go into a clash over trifles.
          2. +1
            July 18 2021
            Nebogatov brought 4 troughs without problems (3 coastal defense battleships and 1 squadron battleship with guns firing black powder), it is a pity that they managed to connect with the half-dead one, so maybe through the La Peruz Strait he slipped into Vladivostok.

  7. +1
    July 16 2021
    the fact is that, in general, even the perpetrators of the direct delivery of the ships were treated rather mildly and no one was shot.

    The fact that the graves of the admirals have not survived is, of course, sad.

    But even more terrible and more criminal is that in 1928 the main monument to the Russian sailors who died in the Battle of Tsushima and in the RYA was blown to shreds -Church of the Savior-on-Waters in St. Petersburg, about which the Emperor wrote:
    “I consider it my duty of conscience to honor the great feat of the valiant sons of Russiawho fearlessly laid down their lives on the battlefield for the honor of their native land.

    May the memory of them be sacred. May it survive from century to century

    And this was done with love and conscientiousness by the best Russian architects and artists (Vasnetsov, Mileshin, etc.): marble plaques with the names of the dead ships and an indication of the squadron were installed in the magnificent church, the names of more than 8 thousand dead sailors, even those who died on the land front.

    Icons were installed in the church, rescued by crews from sinking ships and even raised from sunken ones, St. Andrew's banner.

    Everything was destroyed by Russophobic vandals seeking to destroy the memory of the feat of Russian sailors - and Vasnetsov's mosaics and plates with the names of the heroes. True, some of them were used on them ... chopped meat
    .

    The Russophobic bandits in power did the same in 1929 with 150 plaques with the names of the dead Russian sailors in St. Nicholas Cathedral in Kronstadt and with memorial plaques of the monument-temple to those who died in OV 1812 - used for facing buildings, toilets, rubble, etc.
    1. +6
      July 16 2021
      Olgovich:
      But even more terrible and more criminal is that in 1928 the main monument to the Russian sailors who died in the Tsushima battle and in the RYAV was blown to shreds - the Church of the Savior-on-Water in St. Petersburg, about which the Emperor wrote:


      Just like in the joke about a student who only learned about cockroaches. In the exam, he got a ticket about sharks.
      - Sharks, unlike cockroaches, live in water, but cockroaches ...
      What is the article about? What do cockroaches have to do with it? And the emperor, thrown from the throne by the people who took the oath to him? Which, by the way, sanctioned all actions against the persons mentioned in the article, which is quite likely also affected the fact that no one was willing to support him.
      1. +2
        July 16 2021
        Quote: motorized infantryman
        What is the article about?


        Pro-from article:
        Tsushima "

        from the article:
        Buried at the Nikolskoye cemetery, the grave, as usual, has not survived.

        from the article:
        The grave is lost.

        from the article:
        the grave has not survived


        So not only are lost mentioned in article graves and monuments to admirals, but also a monument to ALL Tsushima and ships, which the same admirals commanded.

        It was a COMMON monument for everyone, patronized and guarded by the survivors themselves, incl. admirals.

        PS that finally became ashamed of what the idols had done? But this is just the tip ..
        1. +5
          July 16 2021
          Again for the fish, pennies ..
          Any material you have is suitable for defaming Soviet power, and a joke about this. The saddest thing is that you, willingly or unwillingly, are shifting the emphasis to the "criminal" power of the Bolsheviks, which has made the Russian people innumerable sufferings. Moreover, those who knocked down the emperor are "people of duty and conscience," and the "Bolsheviks who picked up power" are "monsters of a terrible kind."
          Cause and effect are reversed. Gentlemen, generals and deputies of the State Duma (Medam, Monsieur, Zhenema spa sis zhur .. (p.) Undoubtedly wanted the best, but it turned out according to Chernomyrdin. Does this cancel their guilt that having pulled out the core of the RI trinity, they created the prerequisites for its collapse? No, for some reason they did not want to wait “just about victory over Germany.” They were afraid that the victorious tsar could not be overthrown? So who is the doctor? The Bolsheviks, in particular Lenin, never concealed that without war and February to power They wouldn’t come in. As they did not hide what and at the expense of whom they would do with RI.
          Naturally, the people who "chopped the meat" do not excite me, but I am aware that they did not receive a proper education, and did not learn to appreciate historical monuments (in other matters, and now too), they are a product of their time, like us , your own. They, so to speak, had "incomplete tsarist and not begun Soviet" education, regrettable, but true. But first there was FEBRUARY!
          P.S. With idols, you have not guessed, alas. Even before my service with SA, my late father told me this phrase (maybe not quite culturally, but I am quoting in the original):
          -If you think someone is perfect - remember, each adult has an average of 500 ml. urine and 300g. feces.
          What idols can there be after that?
          1. -1
            July 16 2021
            Quote: motorized infantryman
            Any material you have is suitable for defaming Soviet power, and a joke about this.

            did not understand, they demolished the monuments to Russian Heroes, destroying the soldering about them? This is the one who demolished himself and is defrauding.
            Quote: motorized infantryman
            Cause and effect are reversed

            you.
            Quote: motorized infantryman
            Gentlemen generals and deputies of the State Duma

            You should at least learn STALINV: in the course of the history of the All-Union Communist Party of Belarus, he said clearly that it was not they, but the PEOPLE under the control of the Bolsheviks who overthrew tsarism in February, ignoramus.
            Quote: motorized infantryman
            , I am not delighted, but I am aware that they did not receive the proper education, and did not learn to value historical monuments (in other matters, and now too), they are a product of their time, like us, of ours. They, so to speak, had "incomplete tsarist and not begun Soviet" education, regrettable, but true.

            no dear, it was people with education, ichi, etc., who demolished it, and they perfectly understood what they were doing and for WHAT.
            Quote: motorized infantryman
            -If you think someone is perfect - remember, each adult has an average of 500 ml. urine and 300g. feces.
            What idols can there be after that?

            yes he is just a poet hi
            1. +2
              July 16 2021
              Olgovich
              You should at least learn STALINV: in the course of the history of the All-Union Communist Party of Belarus, he said clearly that it was not they, but the PEOPLE under the control of the Bolsheviks who overthrew tsarism in February, ignoramus.


              Stalin is certainly an authority, but not an idol, especially in the field of the history of the revolution, in any case, it doesn't matter what is written about the February revolution in Stalin's time, maybe even this: The people under the control of the Bolsheviks overthrew tsarism in February and brought the Provisional Government of the Bolshevik Kerensky to power ? The word "Bolshevik" can be replaced by "fellow countryman Lenin". However, it is curious, it is necessary to look into the "History of the CPSU (b)". And, don’t you tell me, brother of Nikolai, well, the one who commanded the Guards Crew and ran around Petrograd with a red bow, in what year did he join the RCP (b)? Or was he a Socialist-Revolutionary?
              1. -3
                July 17 2021
                Quote: motorized infantryman
                The people under the control of the Bolsheviks overthrew tsarism in February and brought the Provisional Government of the Bolshevik Kerensky to power?

                This is exactly what happened, but the Mensheviks took advantage of the victory and formed the Lvov VP. Moreover, the Soviets supported the VP and took part in its formation.
                Quote: motorized infantryman
                And, don’t you tell me, brother of Nicholas, well, the one who commanded the Guards Crew and ran around Petrograd with a red bow, in what year did he join the RCP (b)? Or was he a Socialist-Revolutionary?

                he didn't run with a red bow - it's all nonsense.
            2. 0
              July 16 2021
              You should at least learn STALINV: in the course of the history of the All-Union Communist Party of Belarus, he said clearly that it was not they, but the PEOPLE under the control of the Bolsheviks who overthrew tsarism in February, ignoramus.
              those. Nicholas II abdicated the throne in March 17, and the Bolsheviks came to power only on November 7. Here either Vissarionovich was mistaken (which is unlikely), or later edited (which happened). Didn't even the difference in historical dates bother you? M - h-mde ... And even the famous phrase of Nikolai Romanov -
              All around treason, and cowardice, and deceit!
              apparently it was addressed to the Bolsheviks)) Or some other ESR. And yes, stop CAPS that often. It does not add weight to your "arguments", but it is a sign of bad taste wink I declare this to you as "a son who did not find Khrushchev"))
              by the way. How "photoshopped" in those days laughing
              1. -2
                July 17 2021
                Quote: Region-25.rus
                .e. Nicholas II abdicated the throne in March 17, and the Bolsheviks came to power only on November 7. Here either Vissarionovich was mistaken (which is unlikely), or later edited (which happened). Even the difference in historical dates didn't bother you?

                and read the Short course, everything is logical, understandable and, most importantly, correct, during this period.
                Quote: Region-25.rus
                This does not add any weight to your "arguments", but it is a sign of bad taste. As a "son who did not find Khrushchev," I declare to you)

                son, do not teach my father I (s), yes ... Yes
                Quote: Region-25.rus
                not everyone was thrown off their pedestals and razed to the ground. Do you know why?

                the hands did not reach simply: but tens of THOUSANDS of monuments of Glory, history and culture of the Russian people, tombs (Minin Pozharsky, Bagration, etc.), temples, MILLIONS of burned books, icons, paintings, did.

                Just take an interest in the question and ask yourself which external enemy destroyed more
                1. +1
                  July 17 2021
                  ask yourself which external enemy destroyed more

                  I know what "enemy" has turned the country into a powerful industrial power, and the second economy in the world. Pulling out of the semi-feudal system and dense bastard illiteracy. When the land was cultivated by medieval methods, more or less complex mechanisms (steam boilers, turbines, engines, machine tools and much more) were purchased abroad for money from the sale of grain, oil and other resources (does it look like anything?).
                  I know what "enemy" he piled on the Japanese on Khalkhin Gol and Khasan, I know what "enemy" defeated the most powerful and efficient army in the world. And also all sorts of Romanians, Italians and others who joined in the desire to bite off a piece. And after that, the same "enemies" returned both Port Arthur and the floor of Sakhalin, mediocrely asking .... sorry, pass ... again, sorry .... in general, mediocre lost when the "great power" blew little Japan.
                  hands did not reach just:

                  Of course, they dug through the archives, looking for and destroying everything that came to hand in all monasteries in the wilderness. And what is under the very nose, but in the center of big cities on the squares - the Temple of the Icon of Our Lady of Kazan, St. Isaac's Cathedral, the Hermitage building (aka the Winter Palace), the house of Peter the Great, his Summer Palace, palaces and parks of Peterhof, Oranienbaum, Tsarskoye Selo and so on and so on and so forth .... For some reason, everything is worth it and is still preserved. But the legacy of the previous regime, as it were! And the order named after the "alien class element" - Suvorov, Kutuzov, Nakhimov Alexander Nevsky was established))
                  And I know an ENEMY who has done more harm than some Austrian underartist.
                  And in peacetime. Having shot from tanks the parliament building and laid a bunch of people in Moscow. And then plunging the country into the darkness of lawlessness for a long time. I know the enemy who is pulling my country back into the class society. When will there be (or rather, there is already, but as if unofficially) the legislative division into the caste of masters and working cattle ...
                  and read the Short course, everything is logical, understandable and, most importantly, correct, during this period.

                  I will definitely refresh my memory as I find the time! (I work, providing pensions to some citizens wink ... But something smacks of primitive forgery and the Tsar-Grad and Spas channels. There, such distortion, taking out of context and distortion is normal.
                  And yes, "otEts")) If you are already addressing "you", then write correctly wink and generally follow the literacy of speech. She's lame)))
                  son, do not teach my father I (s), yes .... yes

                  My friend. I'm wondering, in what world did you live your life? Did they live and not trample the earth's firmament? wink
                  1. -3
                    July 17 2021
                    Quote: Region-25.rus
                    I know what "enemy" has turned the country into a powerful industrial power, and the second economy of the world. Pulling out of the semi-feudal system and dense bastard illiteracy.

                    second in the world in what: in the consumption of food, clothing, housing?

                    Not? And then WHAT are you ABOUT? Or should people eat Pravda and wear Izvestia instead of clothes?

                    Just hack it on your forehead: your level of 1913 on these issues barely reached already ... in FORTY years - see Report of the Central Statistical Office of 1955.

                    HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of teachers and 130 thousand schools - it was BEFORE YOUR ignoramuses, and yours for ten years after the thief did not add a single school.
                    Quote: Region-25.rus
                    When the land was cultivated by medieval methods, more or less complex mechanisms (steam boilers, turbines, engines, machine tools and much more) were purchased abroad for money from the sale of grain, oil and other resources (does it look like anything?).

                    also reminds: the "craftsmen" barely caught up with the yield of 1913 in ... 1956, and a THIRD of their harvest ALWAYS went under the snow.

                    Your "owners", with the largest arable land in the world, bought abroad .... grain, meat, butter, etc.
                    Quote: Region-25.rus
                    And what is under the very nose, but in the center of big cities in the squares

                    more than 50% of the buildings and monuments of the Moscow Kremlin, destroyed, the CSU in Moscow, St. Petersburg, etc., etc., only TEN THOUSANDS throughout the country.
                    Quote: Region-25.rus
                    ! And the order named after the "alien class element" - Suvorov, Kutuzov, Nakhimov Alexander Nevsky was established))

                    when hot-remembered about what always saved
                    Quote: Region-25.rus
                    And in peacetime. Having shot from tanks the parliament building and laid a bunch of people in Moscow.

                    unambiguously had. But this is your had-CC secretary-flesh of your party
                    Quote: Region-25.rus
                    I will definitely refresh my memory as I find the time! (I work, providing pensions to some citizens. But something smacks of primitive forgery and the Tsar-Grad and Spas channels. There is a similar distortion, being taken out of context and distorted into norms

                    well, well: first read it later and we'll talk.
                    Quote: Region-25.rus
                    And yes, "otEts")) If you are already addressing "you", then write correctly and generally monitor your speech literacy. She's lame)))

                    for example?
                    And yes, by the way, learn how the introductory words stand out.
                    Quote: Region-25.rus
                    My friend. I'm wondering, in what world did you live your life? Did they live and not trample the earth's firmament?

                    And in Russian?

                    PS to a direct question, you and did not answer.: what enemy ...?
                    Weak, yes ... Yes
            3. -2
              July 16 2021
              but the monument to the destroyer "Guarding" and, accordingly, to its heroic crew, opened in 1911, is still standing in St. Petersburg. A month ago I passed by. Apparently the Bolsheviks did not have time to destroy. And survived the blockade. And a monument
              which was installed on the mass grave of the lower ranks of the cruiser "Varyag" in 1911 in the city of Vladivostok at the Sea Cemetery.
              still stands and honors. And the monument to Stepan Osipovich Makarov, erected on the Anchor Square of Kronstadt, still stands ... and there is still a lot of things that were installed before the October Revolution. Hmmm-hmm .. apparently the "Bolshevik ghouls" overlooked, not all were thrown off their pedestals and razed to the ground. Do you know why?
    2. +6
      July 16 2021
      Olgovich, I agree with the destruction of the monument: "The Church of the Savior on the Waters" is vandalism, but then from the "great mind" not only that monument was destroyed.
      For the sake of truth: "Do not expect affection from the distant Fatherland,
      Tears for Mukden or praises for Arthur,
      They will meet you ridicule, reproach,
      Old Manchurian, Old Manchurian "
      Do you know when this song appeared?
      And "about those who sold and betrayed them,
      All night sailors say "probably wrote the Central Committee of the CPSU (b)?
      1. +1
        July 16 2021
        Quote: vladcub

        "Do not expect affection from the distant Fatherland,
        Tears for Mukden or praises for Arthur, All night sailors say "probably the Central Committee of the CPSU (b) wrote?

        "umbrellas" wrote.

        And my great-grandfather returned from RYAV with George and a medal from the grateful Motherland as a respected person.

        And yes: surnames all seamen of Russia - and this is 8762 people who died in the RYaV, were carefully collected and cast in bronze of memorial plaques of the Savior-on-Water - forever.

        And in the holds of the VT "Balkhash", which died exactly 80 years ago during the Tallinn passage, there are still about 4 thousand people - no one was looking for them and no one knows their names ...

        А
      2. +3
        July 16 2021
        Comrade. hi Ol'govich has a pathological hatred for everything Soviet. He sees only one side of the coin. And he thinks exclusively in categories ((I don’t know what is the reason? Maybe the candle factory was taken away from the ancestors, and the descendant was left without an inheritance that could be squandered abroad and spit on the workers and peasants from above that would be plowed on him. Or someone from relatives was innocent (and under the USSR, only innocent were punished. laughing ) That punished innocent officers after Tsushima - this is normal for Olgovich! The execution of January 9 in St. Petersburg is normal, the Lena shootings are also ... Tsarism. But if the Soviet government took some Blucher into circulation for well-known sins, then - "Terror! Bloody ghouls shot the entire bloom of the military aristocracy before the very (well, yes, they knew the beginning up to a second) the war! One hundred million innocently shot in the GULAG ... well, etc. " And hunger was in his opinion only under the Bolsheviks as far as I remember from one of his posts. In general, do not try to get through. Everything is running there. hi
        1. +1
          July 17 2021
          I think it is not necessary to get personal, even if these individuals hold opinions different from yours.
          1. -2
            July 17 2021
            And where? )) I have already been called "a fool, and a shameful and somehow")))) And .... what?))) I'm not so offended)
            1. 0
              July 17 2021
              To be offended or not is your own business. It’s just scientifically sound that getting personal in a discussion is counterproductive. So don't litter an interesting discussion.
              1. -4
                July 17 2021
                those. double standarts? ))) Some are allowed, and even welcome, while others are strictly prohibited. Even if the other does not allow any epithets and even insults?
    3. 0
      October 9 2021
      In those troubles, whose graves are not forgotten? There the whole country found itself upside down. And everything changed. And RYAV was the forerunner. She brought it all out. And they made few conclusions. At least something in the army and navy. For the rest .... Even PMA was then forgotten. Now they began to remember a little ...
      What power have you lost! Well, at least all these domineering hangers-on would intuit something!
      Yes, just look at the photo of the beginning of the century! The difference between the ruling class and the common people. That one should be imprinted in the brains of everyone. To do things differently.
  8. +8
    July 16 2021
    Even most of the ship commanders who survived Tsushima were thrown into retirement - although the same Dobrotvorsky, Shvede (the senior officer of the Eagle), Ozerov (the commander of the Sisoy the Great, appointed ... commander of the floating beacon), Popov (the commander of the Vladimir Monomakh , appointed head of the pilotage service)?

    The tsars had a grudge against Dobrotvorsky for a long time, even from the time of his membership in the "circle of Kronstadt officers" associated with the Narodnaya Volya, for which Dobrotvorsky was arrested on March 21 and taken to the Trubetskoy bastion of the Peter and Paul Fortress, where he spent 2,5 months from March 21 to March 5 June 1884
    Taking into account the cooperation with the investigation, on December 17, 1884 the Most Merciful was forgiven and restored to sea service by the Imperial Order of the Navy on December 27, 1884.
    All the rest, Shvede, Ozerov, Popov, were captured by the Japanese.
  9. +13
    July 16 2021
    Jessen, who was the only one who had a relatively successful battle against the Japanese (after all, losing only "Rurik" in those conditions is almost a victory), immediately after returning to the Baltic, he received a reprimand, and then - resignation.

    In relation to Karl Petrovich Jessen, black injustice was generally shown. To withstand a five-hour battle with a much superior enemy forces and save the core of a cruising squadron for the country, luck alone would not have been enough for this, skill and courage were needed. Jessen had both, and he was reprimanded ...

    How many times the "Russia" and "Gromboy" returned to cover the damaged "Rurik", and it was not the admiral's fault that he still had to leave and leave the damaged ship.

    The authorities' idiotic decision is to fire Jessen and leave Viren. Although it was difficult to expect any positive decisions from this government.
    1. +6
      July 16 2021
      Although it was difficult to expect any positive decisions from this government.
      - so it is, this government actually provoked this war and lost it ineptly, neither should they punish themselves with it? "The ugly clique", Witte, the grand dukes and Nikolasha himself ... ugh ...
    2. +2
      July 16 2021
      Viren in the 17th paid for everything.
      1. +2
        July 16 2021
        So deserved. You are tired of food, but it is better not to mock people.
  10. +10
    July 16 2021
    The author in the article has forgotten two Port Arthur junior flagships - Rear Admirals Reitenstein and Matusevich, promoted to admirals already during the War "For Distinction".

    After the war, Reitenstein commanded a training and artillery detachment in the Baltic for two years, and then participated in the organization of the Amur Flotilla.

    After the war, Matusevich commanded the Practical Squadron of the Black Sea Fleet, was the junior flagship of the Baltic Fleet, was the commander of the Vladivostok port, and then became the chief of the naval forces of the Pacific Ocean.

    The author's assertion that Skrydlov did not want to break through to Port Arthur is not a fact. Since no documents have yet been found in this regard. Without citing the relevant documents, this statement is purely the author's conjecture, passed off as a fact. The fact is that Skrydlov, for the entire time of his command of the fleet from Vladivostok, did not make a single attempt to break through to Port Arthur. But this is a completely different fact, not the one about which the author speaks.
  11. 0
    July 16 2021
    "the rest of our photographic commanders of the Great War" did not understand what for the author of "The Great War"? If the war was 1877, but the fleet did not participate there. According to the "Paris Treaty" RI did not have a Black Sea Fleet.
    RYAV, but the Russian fleet was beaten there
    1. +4
      July 16 2021
      Usually "Great War" is called WWI, it is also "Second Patriotic War" in the then state propaganda.
  12. +3
    July 16 2021
    [Quote] But in 1907, the admiral is thrown out of service with uniform and pension. [/ Quote]
    They are thrown out without a uniform and without a pension, and in this case they were sent with honor to a well-deserved rest.
  13. +1
    July 16 2021
    This is Admiral Grigorovich, who jumped from the port commander in six years to the Minister of the Navy, having not been in a single naval battle, but being a good business manager.

    strange ... considering his biography (very interesting)
    With a roll of 17 °, the "Tsarevich" remained afloat and repelled the attacks of the Japanese destroyers all night. The commander for this battle was awarded with swords to the Order of St. Vladimir, 3rd degree.

    On March 28, 1904, Grigorovich was promoted to rear admiral with the appointment of commander of the port of Port Arthur. In this position he spent the entire siege of the fortress.
    Yes, he had a continuous battle during the siege. Both sea and land at once.
    I was surprised that he came from the Poltava nobles. although there is nothing to be surprised about - there Wilhelm Wittgeft was born in Odessa. Few people know about this even in this city.
    As for the RYAV and its participants.
    This is a long tradition, especially in unsuccessful wars, when the dead have no shame. The cult of dead heroes.
    The most famous heroes of that war just died there.
    Makarov. Kondratenko, etc. (the triumvirate of the Sevastopol admirals also left the world during the war - Kornilov, Nakhimov, Istomin)
    Of the living heroes, Rudnev, Ivanov were remembered (this is the best hero of naval battles - there are 2 sunk battleships - the maximum damage from one mine vehicle in this war)
  14. -1
    July 17 2021
    Quote: faiver
    ... this power actually provoked this war ...

    Well, yes, Russia by the very fact of its existence "provoked" virtually all attacks on itself. Therefore, the Japanese, Germans, French, Poles ..., of course, are not at all aggressors, but "victims of provocations." Moreover, not only tsarist Russia, but also the USSR. :)
  15. 0
    July 19 2021
    Tried so much memory
    Quote: Olgovich
    the fact is that, in general, even the perpetrators of the direct delivery of the ships were treated rather mildly and no one was shot.

    Everything was destroyed by Russophobic vandals seeking to destroy the memory of the feat of Russian sailors - and Vasnetsov's mosaics and plates with the names of the heroes. True, some of them were used on them ... chopped meat
    .

    The Russophobic bandits in power did the same in 1929 with 150 plaques with the names of the dead Russian sailors in St. Nicholas Cathedral in Kronstadt and with memorial plaques of the monument-temple to those who died in OV 1812 - used for facing buildings, toilets, rubble, etc.


    OVERVIEW OF THE MAIN STEAM CAMPAIGNS AND BATTLES

    A SOURCE

    Petrov M.A.
    An overview of the main campaigns and battles of the steam fleet.
    Printing house of the Hydrographic Directorate, the Directorate of the Naval Forces of the Red Army.
    Leningrad
    November 1927, XNUMX
    Meanwhile, the following was happening on Rurik.
    Naniwa and Takachiho, keeping out of the shelling of his remaining guns, for he was motionless, fired at him. The torpedo released from the only remaining intact mine vehicle did not reach the target. Only one of the officers remained, others were killed or wounded. Of the 800 team members, 200 were killed and 278 wounded. At this time, the armored cruisers of Kamimura approached. Under such circumstances, the officer in command of Rurik ordered the opening of the Kingstones. At the end of the 12th hour, the cruiser went to the bottom, accompanied by the shouts of hurray from the sailing team.


    Walking alone, "Ushakov" was also soon discovered by the 2nd Japanese combat detachment. Kamimura sent two cruisers against him. They offered to surrender. "Ushakov" responded with fire and fought for as long as his towers could shoot. When the roll from the received damage increased so much that the towers could not rotate, the gallant commander of this ship (Miklouho-Maclay) ordered the kingstones to be opened, and the ship sank accompanied by the shouts of "hurray" of the sailing crew.

    Something not like "striving to destroy the memory of the feat of Russian sailors" ...
    1. 0
      July 29 2021
      Something not like "striving to destroy the memory of the feat of Russian sailors" ...
      Yes, everything is very similar. The point is different - then, as now, different people, different groups were in power at the same time - some, true revolutionaries, destroyed monuments and carried out repressions, others were engaged in industrialization, the reconstruction of the army and even tried to preserve the heritage of their ancestors in spite of the former. As now, there is the Central Bank, and there are "illiberals". In general, the history of the USSR has long been divided into several periods, depending on who was in power and what course they followed))). And believe me, in these periods a lot is different.
  16. 0
    October 5 2021
    Now the situation is the same, people do not change ...

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