Tank gas turbine: discussion on the pages of the "Bulletin of armored vehicles"

99

GTD-1000. Source: army.lv

First developments


In continuation material cycle about stories domestic tank engine building, it is worth dwelling on the development of the gas turbine theme. As it turned out, there was no consensus among Soviet engineers regarding the advisability of a gas turbine engine in tank... At the end of the 80s, the specialized and secret edition of the Bulletin of Armored Vehicles became a field for real discussion.

Tank gas turbine: discussion on the pages of the "Bulletin of armored vehicles"
Cover of the Bulletin of Armored Vehicles.

It is noteworthy that in the publication of the Soviet tank industry, back in 1947, a material was published "On the possibility of using a gas turbine as a tank engine." It was the diploma project of the senior technician Lieutenant Georgy Yuryevich Stepanov, who, under the guidance of a professor at the Moscow Higher Technical School. N.E.Bauman V.V. Uvarov was engaged in calculations of a gas turbine for a tank with a capacity of 1500 liters. from.



At the time of publication, Georgy Yuryevich graduated from the engineering faculty of the Military Academy of Armored and Mechanized Forces. Subsequently, G. Yu. Stepanov became a prominent domestic engineer, doctor of physical and mathematical sciences, until 1982 he headed the department of engines of the armored academy.

At the end of the 40s, the concept of equipping heavy breakthrough tanks with gas turbine power plants was born in Soviet tank building. Medium tanks, more adapted to mobile warfare, were left with the classic diesel engines.

It seemed that the gas turbine plant, due to its compactness, relative simplicity and unpretentiousness, was ideal for heavy machines. The tactics of using heavy tanks involved working close to the rear supply and small runs. And the volumes of the reserve space saved due to the compact turbine were supposed to be used to strengthen the reservation and weapons.

How not to recall the words of the legendary designer A.A.Morozov:

"It's expensive to carry armored air."

We can say that this has become the motto of domestic tank builders for many decades to come.

Even before practical tests of prototypes, the engineers had a clear picture of all the pros and cons of a tank GTE. In addition to the positive aspects described above, the turbine did not require a cooling system, it was easy to start in any frost, was relatively quiet and did not have a smoky exhaust. Calculations showed that the gas turbine in the tank saved up to 3 tons of mass without taking into account the placement of additional fuel. Also, among the positive aspects, the engineers highlighted the reduction in the area of ​​the inlet and outlet openings in the tank hull - the engine did not need air for cooling. This bonus made the tank's MTO more resistant to the impact of the shock wave of a nuclear explosion.

But there were also enough minuses - low efficiency, high fuel consumption and low resource. The fragility of the gas turbine engine was explained by its extreme sensitivity to dustiness in the air. All other things being equal, a gas turbine engine consumed 4–8 times more air than a diesel engine, and required non-trivial solutions for cleaning it from dust.

By way of discussion


The history of the world's first gas turbine tank T-80, as we can see, began long before it was put into service on July 6, 1976, when the corresponding decree of the USSR Council of Ministers was issued.

We will leave the assessment of the tank engine and its evolution for the subsequent articles of the series and concentrate now on the discussion that unfolded on the pages of the Bulletin of Armored Vehicles.

Twelve years after the T-80 was put into service, the journal publishes the material of the researcher VA Kolesov "Some questions of the fuel efficiency of tanks", in which the author does not leave the concept of a gas turbine tank stone unturned. The article for Vestnik turned out to be so controversial that it was awarded the note “in the order of discussion”.


T-80 in the Patriot park. Source: wikipedia.org

The author proposes to introduce into the requirements for tanks the concept of travel fuel consumption or, to simplify, fuel consumption per one kilometer of run. Up to this point, the power reserve was used as the main parameter for evaluating the tank's economy. The developers of the technology could not particularly care about fuel consumption, increasing, if necessary, the supply of transported diesel fuel. Kolesov rightly notes that in combat conditions, full refueling, which guarantees the indicated range of the tank, matters only in the first phase of the operation.

During offensive operations, it is far from always possible to promptly deliver fuel in the required volume to tank units. Tankers will have to interrupt what they managed to get, and here the power reserve will be of no interest to anyone. Fuel efficiency of the car will come to the fore. And here the gas turbine T-80 loses with a devastating score.

In the article, Kolesov compares the travel fuel consumption of a T-80 gas turbine tank with a T-72 diesel tank. Imagine a hypothetical situation when two tanks, T-80 and T-72, stood up in the offensive with empty tanks. The tanker delivered 500 liters of fuel to the vehicles. A gas turbine power plant of this volume will be enough for only 64 kilometers, while the T-72 diesel engine will provide 132 kilometers.

A fair question arises: maybe it would be more logical to send the Nizhny Tagil T-80 into battle instead of the T-72? A diesel car with an equal volume of fuel will provide more than twice the mileage with the same level of protection and firepower. On average, a tank GTE consumed about 7,8 liters of fuel per kilometer, and a diesel one - 3,8 liters.

An unconditional plus of the gas turbine engine in its compactness - the T-80 MTO takes 2,5 cubic meters, and the T-72 already has 3,1 cubic meters. At the same time, the diesel V-46 develops 780 liters. from. against 1000 liters. from. the gas turbine analogue. The T-80 is content with a full-tank cruising range of 318 km, and the T-72 - 388 km. The gluttonous GTE forces them to carry 645 liters of fuel more than is provided in a diesel tank.

The author, in addition to a critical attitude to the gas turbine engine, proposes to include in the tactical and technical requirements for the tank track fuel consumption at speeds of 10, 25 and 40 km / h. But the volume of the engine compartment, which the developers of the T-80 are so proud of, should not be taken into account at all without the parameters of efficiency. Why miniaturize the engine if the tank has to carry additional fuel?

In 1989 (eleven months after Kolesov's publication in Vestnik), Elena Vladimirovna Kalinina-Ivanova's material was published, devoted to the analysis of the fuel efficiency of a gas turbine engine.

A little about the author. Elena Vladimirovna - Doctor of Technical Sciences, leading specialist of VNIITransmash in the field of fuel efficiency of armored vehicles and a developer of highly efficient cyclones-air cleaners for tanks.

Kalinina-Ivanova titled her material very simply: “About VA Kolesov's article“ Some questions of fuel efficiency of tanks ”, where she arguably supported the author.

Elena Vladimirovna quite reasonably notes that the range of a tank is a very flexible concept. Depending on traffic conditions, it can be reduced by more than half! It is proposed to supplement the parameter of the track fuel consumption from Kolesov's article with three more: the consumption of a single tank along a concrete highway, along a dry primer and a column of tanks along a column path. In all three cases, the tanks must move as fast as possible.

Kalinina-Ivanova also supplements her reflections with a proposal to investigate the fuel consumption of the engine in the entire range of speed and load. At the end of the material, the doctor of technical sciences transparently hints that if these parameters were entered into the TTT for the T-80, then the gas turbine tank would not have been adopted at all in its original configuration.

Opponents' response


In the same issue of "Vestnik" No. 10 for 1988, another review of Kolesov's "debatable" article was published.

Authors VA Paramonov and NS Popov were directly related to the development of the engine for the T-80 and could not help but respond to criticism. The material "Concerning the discussion about the fuel efficiency of the tank" is clearly the result of a very serious analysis and is filled with a mass of facts that refute Kolesov's opinion. The author was reminded of the history lessons in connection with the Maxim machine gun, when the Russian military department refused weapons, due to the "unnecessary and dangerous waste of a large number of cartridges and the difficulties of combat power."


GTD-1000. Source: army.lv

Paramonov and Popov in the article refer to the famous comparative tests of the T-80B, T-72A and T-64 machines in 1983-1986. A tank with a gas turbine engine started up faster in the cold and was the first to march. While the tankers revived the T-72A in a thirty-degree frost, the T-80B went under its own power up to 20 km. The authors also pointed out the low average speed of the Nizhniy Tagil tank. The car lagged behind the T-80B in speed by 10% - on hard roads and 45% - on snow-covered virgin soil. Heavier than a diesel car, climbs were given on soft soils and snow-covered slopes.

And, finally, the crown - the T-72A consumed 40 times more engine oil than the T-80B GTE under similar conditions. The authors generally suggest not paying attention to such small bonuses as the best ergonomic performance of the gas turbine engine, the reduction of vibrations harmful for aiming and firing, and excellent maintainability.

Further, Paramonov and Popov convict Kolesov of bias regarding the travel fuel consumption as a parameter of the tactical and technical requirements for the tank. For example, a tank with a weak engine, and even taking up a lot of space, may become more economical during testing. Thus, the T-72 in comparative tests with the outdated T-62 demonstrates a 13% higher travel fuel consumption. At the same time, the mobility of the T-72 is much higher than that of its predecessor. According to the logic of Kolosov, the T-72 was put into service in vain, the authors suggest? In the article, in general, the GTE rises to the pedestal of the world engine building.

At the end of the 80s, all the leading tank-building powers were conducting research on the development of gas turbine engines. And promising tanks will not be able to do without a gas turbine engine at all, since the required specific power of 30 hp / t with piston engines cannot be achieved.

In the end, the authors completely fantasized the imminent advent of gas turbine engines in civilian technology.

Time, as we can see, put everything in its place and showed who was really right.

To be continued ...
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  1. 0
    7 July 2021 18: 09
    I remember that during the war for the liberation of Kuwait, American tanks broke down due to the fact that the compressor of the gas turbine engine sucked in a lot of sand ...
    1. +3
      7 July 2021 20: 52
      Quote: Xlor
      I remember that during the war for the liberation of Kuwait, American tanks broke down due to the fact that the compressor of the gas turbine engine sucked in a lot of sand ...

      And I read that this is a myth.
      1. -2
        7 July 2021 21: 03
        Probably not. A whole column on the march stopped ...
        1. +3
          8 July 2021 07: 01
          The main problems for the Americans were due to overheating of the engines when the engine was idling. Well, the systems for cleaning the ears were worse than those of our eighties.
    2. -4
      7 July 2021 21: 09
      I was amused by the moment about the "low noise" of the gas turbine engine! Did the author have to be at the start of the T72 and T80 engine? The roar of the turbine at startup gives out the latter for kilometers from its deployment! !!
      1. +17
        7 July 2021 21: 30
        This is if a mechanic-loshara! Immediately after starting, if you do not set the manual gas to maximum and do not choke the car, the PCA will crush you, but you will not feel it!)) The car is practically silent. And no stench and no tractor cracking.
      2. +7
        8 July 2021 09: 03
        Quote: Thrifty
        The roar of the turbine at startup gives out the latter for kilometers from its deployment! !!

        The roar of a turbine is a high-frequency vibration that decays very quickly with distance from the source. And the diesel generates low-frequency ones, they will be heard from kilometers away.
      3. +1
        9 July 2021 19: 13
        It's one thing to squeak at startup, and it's another thing to report your location every second.
  2. +6
    7 July 2021 18: 29
    so far, I do not see a complete victory of a multi-fuel diesel engine over a gas turbine, I am sure the competition will continue, and then we’ll see Western panzers on lithium batteries
    1. +5
      8 July 2021 09: 43
      Quote: Ryaruav
      so far, I do not see a complete victory of a multi-fuel diesel engine over a gas turbine, I am sure the competition will continue, and then we’ll see Western panzers on lithium batteries


      A combination of a gas turbine, generator and buffer accumulators may be the ideal solution.

      I examined this topic in detail in the article: Electric tank: prospects for the use of electric propulsion in ground combat equipment
      https://topwar.ru/171974-jelektricheskij-tank-perspektivy-primenenija-jelektrodvizhenija-v-nazemnoj-boevoj-tehnike.html

      In short, the benefits:
      - the possibility of a flexible layout of the combat vehicle due to the lack of electric transmission units with a rigid mechanical connection provided by the shafts;
      - increased survivability of military equipment due to the possibility of redundancy of electric transmission components;
      - the possibility of abandoning fire hazardous hydraulic drives in favor of electric ones;
      - the possibility of movement of military equipment on limited sections of the track in the mode of maximum camouflage, with minimal unmasking by sound and thermal signs;
      - the possibility of energy recovery during braking;
      - the best dynamic characteristics and permeability parameters of armored vehicles equipped with electric transmission;
      - greater ease of control of armored vehicles with electric propulsion;
      - the ability to provide a sufficient amount of electricity to an ever-increasing amount of equipment, sensors, advanced weapons.

      The main source of energy is diesel or gas turbine, in cars with electric transmission will have a greater resource and efficiency due to the fact that bothSignificantly, the optimal engine speed can be selected, at which it will have minimum wear and maximum fuel efficiency... The increased loads during acceleration and vigorous maneuvering will be compensated by the buffer batteries.

      For example, in combination with a generator, a high-speed gas turbine can be installed, which will operate in the “on / off” mode to recharge the buffer batteries, without changing the speed.
      1. 0
        18 July 2021 07: 30
        I completely agree. I think for tanks a bundle of a turbine feeding a generator with buffer batteries is already the near future.
  3. +11
    7 July 2021 18: 35
    I don’t know what time has put in its place. The Americans have all gas turbine tanks and they are clearly not going to abandon them.
    1. +1
      7 July 2021 19: 32
      Quote: Pashhenko Nikolay
      The Americans have all gas turbine tanks and they are clearly not going to abandon them.
      https://topwar.ru/35855-na-tanki-abrams-ustanovyat-dizel-moschnostyu-v-1630-ls.html
      1. +3
        7 July 2021 20: 26
        The article is almost eight years old. Have you installed a diesel engine?
    2. -4
      7 July 2021 21: 07
      Nikolay, the Yankees changed the GTE mainly for a diesel engine from MTU!
  4. +3
    7 July 2021 18: 56
    Quote: Ryaruav
    so far I do not see a complete victory of a multi-fuel diesel engine over a gas turbine, I am sure the competition will continue

    Perhaps the unification of fuel is the same for both tanks and aircraft engines.
    At one time, the Americans unified diesel fuel for tanks and warships in the same way ...
    1. +1
      7 July 2021 21: 45
      if you take a naval engine, then it runs on fuel oil, on which a tank diesel engine does not work, and if in the WWII there were aircraft engines on amerskie tanks, then it is clear to the horse that there will be unification in fuel, but this is not the article
  5. 0
    7 July 2021 19: 47
    Twelve years after the T-80 was put into service, the journal publishes the material of the researcher VA Kolesov "Some questions of the fuel efficiency of tanks", in which the author does not leave the concept of a gas turbine tank stone unturned. The article for Vestnik turned out to be so controversial that it was awarded the note “in the order of discussion”.

    All articles of this author go under the heading "As a matter of discussion", since the author consistently leaves no stone unturned not only from the concept of a gas turbine tank.
    For example, in No. 10 for 88, it does not leave a stone unturned on a stone from the mobility of Soviet tanks.
    1. 0
      10 July 2021 09: 39
      Quote: Undecim
      Twelve years after the T-80 was put into service, the journal publishes the material of the researcher VA Kolesov "Some questions of the fuel efficiency of tanks", in which the author does not leave the concept of a gas turbine tank stone unturned. The article for Vestnik turned out to be so controversial that it was awarded the note “in the order of discussion”.

      All articles of this author go under the heading "As a matter of discussion", since the author consistently leaves no stone unturned not only from the concept of a gas turbine tank.
      For example, in No. 10 for 88, it does not leave a stone unturned on a stone from the mobility of Soviet tanks.

      Let me ask you, I didn't have a chance to get acquainted with this author (with creativity) myself - but did he consider the issue of starting a tank engine at -40 degrees and below?
      1. +3
        10 July 2021 13: 11
        , I didn’t have a chance to get acquainted with this author myself (with creativity)

        You can catch up. an almost complete archive of the VBT magazine is available on the Internet.
        1. 0
          10 July 2021 13: 15
          Quote: Undecim
          You can catch up.

          Yes, it somehow became scary ... after your comment ... winked
          1. +1
            10 July 2021 13: 24
            On the contrary, it is very interesting !!! For many years, on the pages of the magazine, specialists for specialists set out the real state of affairs in the design, production and operation of BTT. Now it can be considered "mere mortals".
            It is extremely useful for assessing the reality of the presentation of such materials in the media and the level of competence of any sofa mega-experts like Damantsev.
            1. +1
              10 July 2021 13: 26
              Quote: Undecim
              On the contrary, it is very interesting !!!

              Certainly not alternatives and not a view from a parallel universe? Otherwise, travelers from alternative universes already feel nauseous from time to time wassat
              1. 0
                10 July 2021 13: 35
                Certainly not alternatives and not a view from a parallel universe?

                You are joking? This is a closed edition under the stamp. What is the alternative? The journal was declassified in 2020.
                1. +1
                  10 July 2021 13: 45
                  Quote: Undecim
                  You are joking? This is a closed edition under the stamp. What is the alternative? The journal was declassified in 2020.

                  Well, if I came across, I would not ask, would I clarify? In my opinion, so ... And so the grand merci for the specified path good
  6. +10
    7 July 2021 19: 54
    A possible solution to the problem of obtaining high power from a compact engine is a combination of a diesel engine and a turbocharger. But the high-pressure turbo-diesel bundle has a lot of specific problems. One of the methods for solving them was the Hyperbar direction of the French (used mainly on corvettes). We in the Special Design Bureau of Turbochargers (Penza) took a different path - this is an electro-assisted turbocharging. The results were quite good (testing was carried out in December 2005, the results can be requested from the diesel workers of Kolomna, their Chief Designer was Ryzhov at that time). I abandoned these works (although I was the author of the ideas of the first and second generations) only because their continuation in the SKB of Turbochargers was practically impossible - the then management of SKBT is maniac thieves.
    1. +5
      7 July 2021 21: 58
      If anyone is interested in what it is, then in the search you can score Electric supercharger TurboDyne Systems. They have a lot of pictures in their patents. Our version was simpler.
      In addition, VNII ZhT made calculations on the possible use of such a system on warships (Zarucheisky's dissertation). A very decent arrival in terms of dynamics was expected there - full acceleration of the diesel engine, instead of about 90 seconds, was brought to 27.
  7. -4
    7 July 2021 20: 13
    The cost of a diesel engine is up to ten times less.
    Previously, data were quoted up to nineteen times less.
    1. -2
      7 July 2021 21: 13
      123456789 - we read in 88 a fragment of a report on prices - a gas turbine engine cost 137 thousand rubles, and a diesel with a capacity of 780 l / s cost 3,800 rubles!
      1. 0
        10 July 2021 18: 21
        B-46 cost 9800 rubles, 5TDF - 18500, 6TD - 42000.
    2. +4
      7 July 2021 21: 34
      With lousy quality and wild oil consumption. During the operation of the same 72-ki, oil flies into space and flows out onto the earth-river! Often there is a whole lake of oil with solarium on the MTO floor, and this cannot be cured!
    3. +3
      8 July 2021 13: 59
      Quote: 123456789
      The cost of a diesel engine is up to ten times less.
      Previously, data were quoted up to nineteen times less.

      This is according to old unproven technologies.
      Now the gap is much smaller in mass production.
      1. 0
        10 July 2021 18: 45
        Is there a mass production of tank gas turbine engines in Russia? NOT.
        This means that the price gap could be even greater.
        If we compare it with the price of a small-scale T-14 diesel engine, then yes. The gap is clearly smaller.
    4. -1
      8 July 2021 15: 33
      the cost of the Kaluga GTD-1250 exceeded the cost of the Chelyabinsk V-92S2 diesel engine in 2002 by 13 times! [
      1. -1
        10 July 2021 09: 42
        Quote: 123456789
        the cost of the Kaluga GTD-1250 exceeded the cost of the Chelyabinsk V-92S2 diesel engine in 2002 by 13 times! [

        So what? And how will you start a diesel engine in the field beyond the Arctic Circle?
        1. -1
          10 July 2021 18: 19
          Just like all other cars in the Arctic Circle start up.
          1. 0
            10 July 2021 18: 22
            Quote: eburg1234
            Just like all other cars in the Arctic Circle start up.

            In quarries, they are simply not drowned out, and those who have died out are abandoned until spring. There is even a term - the Norilsk disco ...
            1. -1
              10 July 2021 18: 27
              What are you going to do on these wonderful tanks, if in your opinion ALL other equipment (BMP, armored personnel carrier, MTLB, trucks, tankers), which is on diesel engines, will not go anywhere? Have you ever thought about it?
              After all, there are other solutions: new oils, warm pre-fabricated boxes, mobile heat guns.
              1. 0
                10 July 2021 18: 31
                Quote: eburg1234
                pre-fabricated boxes, mobile heat guns.

                Wait don't bomb - will we build the boxes?
                Quote: eburg1234
                What are you going to do on these miracle tanks

                Someone has to take the first blow while the rest are deployed?
                1. -1
                  10 July 2021 18: 41
                  Whose blow are you expecting? Basurman on the Abrams without any support in the Arctic?
                  Believe it yourself?
                  Or are you talking about a massive nuclear strike? And surely they will spend warheads on the Arctic in the presence of many targets to the south?
                  If you save these T-80s, and the rest of the cars, people and fuel are destroyed, will this help us win?
                  In my opinion, this is an owl pulling on a globe.
                  Yes, we will build the boxes. They are already doing it.
                  1. -1
                    10 July 2021 19: 08
                    Quote: eburg1234
                    Whose blow are you expecting?

                    Do you know when the T-80 entered service, or just keep the conversation going?
                    1. -1
                      10 July 2021 20: 05
                      Will there be no answers?
                      I know. I am trying to understand what real advantages the T-80 will give NOW in the North against the background of the total use of diesel engines there. The comfort of the crews is good. You just need to understand at what cost, and whether other options are possible.
                      1. 0
                        11 July 2021 06: 46
                        Quote: eburg1234
                        I am trying to understand what real advantages the T-80 will give NOW in the North against the background of the total use of diesel engines in the same place.

                        To begin with, try to understand that all this technique was designed and produced at a completely different time, in a different country ... AND NOT NOW ... NOW IT'S LIKE THAT IT WILL BE ABLE TO CREATE IN GENERAL _ ONLY TO EAT THE HERITAGE AND TREATMENT OF FATHERS AND GRANDFATHERS, Maybe questions others will ..
                      2. -1
                        11 July 2021 08: 12
                        Quote: eburg1234
                        Will there be no answers?

                        Is the answer of the body founded by the government of the Russian Federation suitable for you?
                        https://rg.ru/2019/08/07/reg-cfo/gazoturbinnye-tanki-v-zapas-ne-uhodiat-oni-idut-v-arktiku.html
      2. 0
        10 July 2021 21: 37

        We are testing the T-72 "Ural" tank in the cold. Race in the polar night. Tank shooting range beyond the Arctic Circle.
        1. 0
          11 July 2021 06: 59
          with serviceable heating means (validity period is limited without replacing parts, normally 20 starts) there is almost no difference between the T-72 and the T-80, then the T-80 takes the lead - in the presence of a standard battery ..
      3. 0
        11 July 2021 08: 12
        https://rg.ru/2019/08/07/reg-cfo/gazoturbinnye-tanki-v-zapas-ne-uhodiat-oni-idut-v-arktiku.html
  8. +2
    7 July 2021 20: 26
    The turbine has its own gadgets, the diesel has its own. By the way, if you have a turbine, then the auxiliary engine will have to be installed anyway.
    And the Soviet tanks, it seems to me, have several problems, and it is far from the fact that they have a diesel engine. The Leopard 2 also has a diesel:
    a) Small reverse gear. only 5 km / h. This is VERY small. Crawl into position, shoot and drive back will not work. Leopard 2 has 31 km / h.
    b) Small declination angle. -5 degrees. It is difficult to use the folds of the terrain. On Leopard 2 -9 degrees
    c) Small reserve space. Any penetration is guaranteed to hit something important. For example, a bookmaker who
    d) also in BO. Like the tanks in the T-34, that when the diesel vapors were detonated tore out the front armor plate. Read more at Isaev. However, EMNIP, on the Leopard BC next to the mechvod ...
    e) Shells. Exactly as in 1941. The cannon is good, the PF are good, and the BBs are not up to par.
    f) night vision devices.
    1. +3
      7 July 2021 20: 57
      Quote: Baron Pardus
      The turbine has its own gadgets, the diesel has its own. By the way, if you have a turbine, then the auxiliary engine will have to be installed anyway.
      And the Soviet tanks, it seems to me, have several problems, and it is far from the fact that they have a diesel engine. The Leopard 2 also has a diesel:
      a) Small reverse gear. only 5 km / h. This is VERY small. Crawl into position, shoot and drive back will not work. Leopard 2 has 31 km / h.
      b) Small declination angle. -5 degrees. It is difficult to use the folds of the terrain. On Leopard 2 -9 degrees
      c) Small reserve space. Any penetration is guaranteed to hit something important. For example, a bookmaker who
      d) also in BO. Like the tanks in the T-34, that when the diesel vapors were detonated tore out the front armor plate. Read more at Isaev. However, EMNIP, on the Leopard BC next to the mechvod ...
      e) Shells. Exactly as in 1941. The cannon is good, the PF are good, and the BBs are not up to par.
      f) night vision devices.

      Outplayed the tundra? In reality, it's different. In fact, the UVNs do little to decide. Especially down. In reality, no one travels by millimeters. And they just leave and hit the target. Since when have tanks started to explode? Small reserve space is a plus, not a minus. Leo-2 is not empty inside, constraint is also present there, but a greater number of people. Doesn't contribute to convenience in any way.
      1. 0
        7 July 2021 21: 41
        UVN is really too small for us! At the intersection, it is impossible to shoot straight away, because the breech practically rests on the ceiling. By the way, people survived after hitting his head exactly THERE! ... Tanks explode after running on gasoline. For they are not protected with us. It is the charges in the AZ / MZ that light up and explode after breaking through, even a small one, For the lining is not everywhere.
        1. +1
          7 July 2021 22: 38
          Quote: 113262
          UVN is really too small for us! At the intersection, it is impossible to shoot straight away, because the breech practically rests on the ceiling. By the way, people survived after hitting his head exactly THERE! ... Tanks explode after running on gasoline. For they are not protected with us. It is the charges in the AZ / MZ that light up and explode after breaking through, even a small one, For the lining is not everywhere.

          At the expense of shooting on the move, this is generally not done anywhere, only indicative. Tanks on gasoline will not explode if they are made in the mind))) Inert gas, all that)))
    2. +5
      7 July 2021 21: 56
      Quote: Baron Pardus
      By the way, if you have a turbine, then the auxiliary engine will have to be installed anyway.

      IMHO, an auxiliary engine would not hurt on a tank with a diesel engine ...
  9. 0
    7 July 2021 20: 52
    The author recalled the lessons of history in connection with the Maxim machine gun, when the Russian military department abandoned weapons, due to the "unnecessary and dangerous waste of a large number of cartridges and the difficulties of combat power."
    interesting, but where does the machine gun and the engine from the tank?

    And finally, the crown one - the T-72A consumed 40 times more engine oil than the T-80B GTE under similar conditions

    Well, as if for an operation, it's not critical. Since oil consumption is not instantaneous. It's just that more oil is needed between operations. But less fuel)))

    excellent maintainability
    mmm how is it? The scapula is broken, can it be repaired in the field?
    1. +5
      7 July 2021 21: 43
      And a tank battle - it was and is - 7-10 minutes! Checked by Donbass! If not you, then you. Fuel is definitely ENOUGH!
      1. +1
        7 July 2021 22: 35
        Quote: 113262
        And a tank battle - it was and is - 7-10 minutes! Checked by Donbass! If not you, then you. Fuel is definitely ENOUGH!

        This is a local conflict. Have you read at all? The article is written clearly
        Imagine a hypothetical situation when two tanks, T-80 and T-72, stood up in the offensive with empty tanks. The tanker delivered 500 liters of fuel to the vehicles. A gas turbine power plant of this volume will be enough for only 64 km of run, while the diesel engine T-72 will provide 132 km of run.

        And also checked by Iraq, where the marches were at the maximum. So do not juggle and talk about something else.
        1. +1
          7 July 2021 22: 44
          About 7 minutes, that's 40 years ago, in a tutorial on tactics, wrote a synopsis! And as graduates of tank schools, so they know it from the first year! And long runs, so they are either on the railway platform, or on the trawl. And so-to the extreme-in the column, and if in the battalion, then accompanied by a regular platoon of command and control, and there-and PAK, and TZM, and tractors.
          1. +1
            8 July 2021 00: 55
            Quote: 113262
            About 7 minutes, that's 40 years ago, in a tutorial on tactics, wrote a synopsis! And as graduates of tank schools, so they know it from the first year! And long runs, so they are either on the railway platform, or on the trawl. And so-to the extreme-in the column, and if in the battalion, then accompanied by a regular platoon of command and control, and there-and PAK, and TZM, and tractors.

            Yeah, on a railway or on a trawl, only here, for example, bad luck, railway and good roads are not everywhere and there is a kind of war. This is indicated in the article, in not read? Are you making faces on purpose? Can you read?
          2. +7
            8 July 2021 07: 18
            In many cases, the tanks go along their column tracks, and the wheels along the highway and rendezvous points are assigned for restocking. On diesel cars, before the start of the march, I was always (!) Interested in the question of the availability of a stock of oil on each car. And for each mechanic on the headset from above - watch the oil pressure and at a halt, first of all, check the level and percentage to the maximum! Eh, how many engines are screwed up on marches due to oil driving ...
            On the T-80, there were no such problems at all.
            1. +4
              8 July 2021 08: 31
              They just don't understand tovarischi! The sofa and the practice are different things!))) Maslozhor is inescapable for all domestic tank diesel engines! Again, due to the quality of the same wet chrome-plated steel cylinder liners. And shitty piston rings. Often, the exhaust from the breather is comparable to the main one. And we learned how to make and even repair turbine blades - our aircraft plant successfully restored Klimovsk ones.
              1. +3
                8 July 2021 14: 34
                Quote: 113262
                The oil burner is inescapable for all domestic tank diesel engines!

                EMNIP, it all started with V-2: already the T-34 had separate "fuel range" and "oil range".
                1. -1
                  8 July 2021 14: 37
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  already the T-34 had separate "fuel range" and "oil range".

                  To be fair, there was also a power reserve for both the air filter and the main clutch and much more)
                  1. 0
                    8 July 2021 16: 17
                    Quote: Liam
                    To be fair, there was also a power reserve for both the air filter and the main clutch and much more)

                    The checkpoint was forgotten. smile
                    The combat operation of the T-34 tanks once again confirms the low quality of the gearboxes. The service life of the boxes is very short. Of the tanks that failed due to the fault of the boxes, not a single one passed 1000 km.
                    According to the complaint act of 102 tank division of August 2 s / g for ten days of hostilities out of 15 tanks 7 tanks failed due to breakdowns of gearboxes.
                    © Deputy. Chief of BTU GABTU KA 1st rank military engineer Alymov
                    And with the main clutch on the T-34 there really was a complete polar fox.
                    When receiving the first T-34 machines at STZ, a defect was discovered: failure to turn off and burning the main clutch discs.
                    The audit found that the friction clutch parts were manufactured and installed on the machine in accordance with the drawings and technical specifications of Plant No. 183.
                    When analyzing the causes of the defect, I found that they are of a purely constructive nature and consist in a small value of the diametrical clearance between the gearbox [gear changes], the ring off and the ball ...
                    (...)
                    I made a decision (and I recommend that you demand from the factory) machines that have passed acceptance tests to open and set a gap of 1 mm ... so that the machines delivered to the unit, could go at least 200-250 km...
                    © Senior Military Representative of the GABTU KA military engineer 2nd rank Levin
                    Based on the results of tests of serial T-34s in December 1940, it was generally concluded that:
                    Tactical use of the tank in isolation from the repair bases is impossible, due to the unreliability of the main components - the main clutch and chassis.
            2. 0
              10 July 2021 09: 48
              Quote: Old Tanker
              In many cases, the tanks go along their column tracks, and the wheels along the highway and rendezvous points are assigned for restocking. On diesel cars, before the start of the march, I was always (!) Interested in the question of the availability of a stock of oil on each car. And for each mechanic on the headset from above - watch the oil pressure and at a halt, first of all, check the level and percentage to the maximum! Eh, how many engines are screwed up on marches due to oil driving ...
              On the T-80, there were no such problems at all.

              Did you have to start both a diesel engine and a turbine at very low temperatures? Is there a significant difference?
              1. 0
                12 July 2021 07: 02
                Are you asking me, who has served for 18 years (of which 4 years as a battalion deputy technical officer)?
                In addition, at various times he operated the T-72, T-64 and BMP-2 (also the battalion's deputy technical officer).
                1. 0
                  16 July 2021 17: 11
                  Quote: Old Tankman
                  Are you asking me, who has served for 18 years (of which 4 years as a battalion deputy technical officer)?

                  It is no longer necessary AlexGa (Alexander) told the question without any theatrical questions ...
    2. -1
      7 July 2021 22: 46
      No, the crankshaft liner is lifted up, we change it to a piece of leather belt!))) Or we will adjust the injection pump with a sledgehammer! This is me about the maintainability of the diesel
  10. +5
    7 July 2021 21: 49
    Interestingly, the participants in the discussion consider economy in fuel consumption, but at the same time they do not really want to notice the difference in power. Again, the general figures of the transportable fuel supply are not given, only the difference is given. Fuel consumption must be given per unit of specific power, otherwise it is not clear how it is. At the same time, for some reason, the specifics of the GTE are not taken into account, i.e. its efficiency, among other things, depends on the ratio of the clearance area between the turbine, compressor, and their flow paths to the total area of ​​the flow path. Since the thermal clearances are the same for both large GTEs and small ones, the worst ratio, naturally, for GTEs of small sizes (in this case), therefore, for tank GTEs, due to the limited size, the efficiency can be increased (accordingly, reduced fuel consumption), or for by increasing the temperature of the cycle, which in turn requires more heat-resistant materials, or by using the heat of the exhaust gases (recuperation). The GTE has a lot of advantages, especially the automatic change in torque with an increase in resistance to movement, it is much easier to control the transmission. However, there is such a thing, in winter at -30C on the BPM-1 in reverse, pulling the T-62 with a cable and turning it on, cold! And you can't start a tank with a gas turbine engine from a tug.
    1. 0
      7 July 2021 22: 36
      Quote: motorized infantryman
      Interestingly, the participants in the discussion consider economy in fuel consumption, but at the same time they do not really want to notice the difference in power. Again, the general figures of the transportable fuel supply are not given, only the difference is given. Fuel consumption must be given per unit of specific power, otherwise it is not clear how it is. At the same time, for some reason, the specifics of the GTE are not taken into account, i.e. its efficiency, among other things, depends on the ratio of the clearance area between the turbine, compressor, and their flow paths to the total area of ​​the flow path. Since the thermal clearances are the same for both large GTEs and small ones, the worst ratio, naturally, for GTEs of small sizes (in this case), therefore, for tank GTEs, due to the limited size, the efficiency can be increased (accordingly, reduced fuel consumption), or for by increasing the temperature of the cycle, which in turn requires more heat-resistant materials, or by using the heat of the exhaust gases (recuperation). The GTE has a lot of advantages, especially the automatic change in torque with an increase in resistance to movement, it is much easier to control the transmission. However, there is such a thing, in winter at -30C on the BPM-1 in reverse, pulling the T-62 with a cable and turning it on, cold! And you can't start a tank with a gas turbine engine from a tug.

      You probably didn't finish reading and started scribbling? What are your words when the article says about it?
      At the expense of efficiency, I do not understand, can you explain?
    2. +6
      7 July 2021 22: 49
      From BMP and GTE starts up at once! There from the generator you can cook by welding! As well as from a working KRAZ. This is exactly what he did.
    3. +1
      8 July 2021 10: 08
      When the accumulators sat down and there was no air in the cylinders for the plant, they used an armored personnel carrier or an infantry fighting vehicle, drove up from behind and pushed, and everything would start normally, but with a gas turbine engine it will not work ...
  11. +9
    8 July 2021 00: 11
    I read the article and publications in the Bulletin. I will not dispute everything, but I can share how it was on VI "Taiga-83". These are tests of the T-64 with 5TDF (nothing special, an ordinary production car), Ob. 184 with the A-65 engine (then it was on production vehicles in the B-84) and Ob 219r. With regard to fuel consumption per 1 km. Maybe for designers this is an important indicator, but for the military, the power reserve of cars is needed. I give an example, Yurga test site, December 1983, three cars of each brand are refueled to capacity and go on the march until the fuel is completely depleted. Result: T-72 532 km, T-80 - 247 km. On the T-80, three fuel barrels were not included in the system, not provided for by the design. There was an attempt to put pressure on the UVZ machines, too, to disconnect additional barrels from the system, but this number did not work, because they are, by design, included in the fuel supply system. It is strange that the articles say that the T-72A was involved in the tests, this is not true. Yes, I testify, the T-80 certainly wins in speed on straight sections of virgin snow and the steppes of Transbaikalia, but on tank forest roads in Siberia, it loses to the T-72. Yes, there was a lot of everything. The main factor, Popov and Ustinov, members of the Central Committee, 38 Scientific Research Institute are also their supporters, but there was the head of the GBTU, General Potapov, and the Military Counterintelligence Service, which conducted its research. On fire from a cannon, the best T-64s, on guided missiles, the absolute leader is the T-72 with laser guidance, on the T-64 and T-80 there were radio command missiles. In terms of noise, I will say that Mu-mu, Zhu-zhu and Rexes can be heard for 15-20 kilometers on a winter evening. When the eighty goes to you, there is practically no noise. You can write a lot. There are questions, I will answer about everything that the witness was.
    1. +1
      8 July 2021 10: 42
      Quote: AlexGa
      in guided missiles, the absolute leader is the T-72 with laser guidance, the T-64 and T-80 had radio command missiles

      On the adopted T-64B and T-80B - Cobra, and what KUV was on the T-72 in 1983 (?)?
      1. +5
        8 July 2021 11: 59
        Already stood 1K13 "Svir", produced by the Minsk plant named after. Vavilov. These are T-72B vehicles.
        1. +2
          8 July 2021 12: 46
          1K13 - sight-guidance device (PPN). KUV "Svir" 9K120. Shooting on the move was excluded.
          The T-72B series went into the 84th year, and the Cobra was already serially installed on the 64th (1976) and 80th (1978). In 1985, the Irtysh-Reflex was adopted for the T-80, and the 72ke could only be envied until it was put on the T-90.
          The T-83 with the Svir was considered the absolute leader in KUV on Taiga-72 only because of the laser?
          1. +4
            8 July 2021 13: 26
            I will try to explain it personally for you. I am giving you data from the military tests "Taiga-83", which took place in the fall-winter of 1983-1984 at the training grounds of the Siberian and Trans-Baikal districts. UVZ presented its sample with the index rev.184 for testing, on which a new KUV 9K120 with a 1k13 sight (is it clearer ???), a new A-65 engine, a new radio station, a PVV cold start system, a system was installed on two machines UHKV. The T-80 (219R) company was represented by 5 machines from the Kirov plant and 5 machines from the Omsk plant (with an experimental air cleaning system, it did not go into production), on which the 9М112 "Cobra" was still installed. According to the results of firing guided missiles at the Zabalkal VO training ground (Tsugol), the first place in terms of fire accuracy was given to UVZ vehicles. What's so complicated, And here 1984 and 1985 ??? There were also military trials in the summer of 1984, although they were carried out only by marches from the Baltic states through Belarus to Ukraine (to Kharkov). After these events, it was decided to release ob. 184 into series.
            1. +1
              9 July 2021 10: 39
              I am interested in the assessment of KUV, to which you have already answered
              Quote: AlexGa
              According to the results of firing guided missiles at the Zabalkal VO training ground (Tsugol), the first place in terms of fire accuracy was given to UVZ vehicles
              It's not about radio command or laser guidance, but about accuracy. Thank you
              1. +2
                10 July 2021 11: 35
                Timur, I have a question of the following plan. When using Svir, there is this moment, when the rocket was launched and the expelling charge was triggered, the rocket sagged by 40 centimeters when exiting the barrel bore, then the main engine was turned on and the rocket entered the aiming line. Therefore, shooting with a short stop was used. Tula military representatives said that you can shoot on the move, but when launching a rocket, aim higher. There is enough time to return to the target. I have not seen the launches of Reflexes, but this is also a Tula creature, and how it happens there. I would like to hear the opinion of an eyewitness. There is a video, but it does not convey the details.
    2. +1
      10 July 2021 09: 53
      Quote: AlexGa
      There are questions, I will answer about everything that the witness was.

      How about starting a "cold" diesel and gas turbine engine at -40-45 degrees?
      and yet, about the "omnivorous" turbine right?
      1. +2
        10 July 2021 11: 26
        ZabVO, 11th guards mfd st Bezrechnaya January 1984. The batteries are removed from the cars, they are on the battery. Coolant and oil temperature -32. The beginning of the exercise begins with the installation of the battery in the car. T-80s are launched in the usual way, T-64s too. T-72 - one platoon is launched using the PVA system, the rest in the usual way. According to the results, the platoon with PVV took first place, then the T-80, then all the others, there was no particular difference between the T-72 and T-64. Let me explain what a PVV is. The lubrication system has a small 02-03 liter glass, into which a glow plug is inserted, exactly the same as in the heater. When you press the start button on the PVA unit, the following occurs: the candle heats up the oil in the glass - VPY starts pumping oil into the crankshaft - after reaching the oil to the sensor on the last support, the combined method of starting the engine is switched on. Yes, there were also 2 candles for heating the air on the air duct (they were no longer on the production cars of 1988). There is a counter for the number of such launches, the plant has determined that no more than 20 can be done. But how to deceive this counter, we in the troops found a way to deceive it. In tests, the average time for such a start was 32 seconds, this is from the moment the start button was pressed until the engine was started. And from an engineering point of view, this is a terrible violence against iron, but if necessary, then you can. In Tsugol it was up to - 52, but all the machines were launched, of course the T-80 is much faster. All cars have their pros and cons. As for the fuel. On the T-64 and T-72, the DA was used, on the T-80 TS. When replacing these fuels from TS to DA and vice versa, there was a significant loss of power. Therefore, diesel is better on diesel engines, kerosene on gas turbine engines. The tests were not carried out on gasoline, and in all my service, I have not had a case of using gasoline.
        1. +1
          10 July 2021 11: 38
          Quote: AlexGa
          is launched using the PVV system

          Well, maybe I didn’t correctly ask .. in the field, well, it’s like a complete war ...
          Quote: AlexGa
          .When replacing these fuels from TS to DA and vice versa, there was a significant loss of power. Therefore, diesel is better on diesel engines, kerosene on GTE

          But, as they say, if "in war, as in war", then on which engine do you think it is easier to find something in order to find it?
          Simply, you understand, if, in seriousness, it is not "heaters", nor regular fuel ... And you are a practitioner, you felt everything alive - where is the probability of not abandoning the tank anymore, as was the case in 1941?
          1. +2
            10 July 2021 12: 29
            . in the field, well, like a complete war.

            You have asked a difficult question. The simplest answer, I would say, is by any means possible. On the T-72 PVV was created for when there really is nowhere to go. A heater is safer, or keep the car warm by periodically warming it up. The T-80 does not depend on the word at all from the air temperature, but there is only one way to start, only from the battery. If the batteries are discharged, then everyone has arrived, you need to look for an external start. With diesels it is easier, on the T-72 in general the main launch is air. In my opinion, it is more convenient to use diesel engines. It is also a single fuel for all vehicles. And military repair is easier. Significantly cheaper. Yes, the T-80 is steeper in speed, but this is practically not used, because tanks themselves do not move, there will be APCs with armored personnel carriers, and the speed will be determined by the slowest vehicle.
            1. +1
              10 July 2021 12: 35
              Quote: AlexGa
              You have asked a difficult question.

              It's just that for a long, very long time I came across such infa that one of the main arguments for the turbine on the tank was just the launch that did not depend on the ambient temperature .. And that it seems that all the first cars were supposed to be sent to parts closer to and beyond the Arctic Circle. .. Here, and then you "turned up" - a practitioner) ... Well, he could not resist ..
              1. +2
                10 July 2021 12: 46
                that one of the main arguments for the turbine on the tank was just the start-up independent of the ambient temperature

                During the Soviet era, the T-80s were in the Union only in the 45th Guards Mechanized Infantry Division near St. Petersburg near the Finnish border and 2 Guards TD in near Moscow. Everything else is in the GSVG. This is a very expensive pleasure. In the early 90s, a partial withdrawal to the internal districts began. And then a mess, the collapse of the Union, the withdrawal of troops from Germany. The units were withdrawn into almost open fields and places where the infrastructure did not allow for the normal maintenance of tanks and so on, etc., about 10000 units were produced, how many of them survived it is difficult to say, there are 3000 numbers, and the rest of the fate turned out to be unenviable, which was cut that burned down in the wars in the Caucasus. Therefore, the main emphasis is on the T-72, they turned out to be more tenacious in difficult times.
                1. +1
                  10 July 2021 12: 59
                  Quote: AlexGa
                  Parts were taken out into almost open fields

                  But I saw it myself ...
                  I say - a very long time ago ... then only scraps of rumors were ...
                  Quote: AlexGa
                  and for the rest the fate turned out to be unenviable, that they cut, that burned down in the wars in the Caucasus.

                  here resentment and anger takes over ... although this not only touched the tanks ... but the tanks somehow hurt more - my grandfather was a tanker for half the war ... and in general ... so much human labor, such heads worked on it all ...
                  And in Germany it turns out for a swift throw, if what? You do not know how the 80s with protection from radiation were? ..
                  1. +1
                    10 July 2021 13: 15
                    Do you not know how the 80s with radiation protection were? Otherwise, in a compartment with a speed, it turns out a "breakthrough tank" ... a breakthrough through radioactive zones in the event of a real hot conflict ..

                    All tanks have anti-nuclear protection systems, the designers promise that it will work, but how much will it protect? The last tests were at exercises near Totsk in 54. The tanks were going 800 meters from the epicenter. Everything seems to be fine for the crew. According to my relative from the 50th Guards Midship Division, who took part there, being in a respectable position (sorry, the Internet, not everything can be written), they write in books worse than they really are. But this is the private opinion of the division engineer. There are eighties guys here, they will tell you more about the T-80.
                    1. +1
                      10 July 2021 13: 20
                      Quote: AlexGa
                      they write worse in books

                      And sometimes it is worse than in horror movies laughing
                      Quote: AlexGa
                      There are eighties guys here, they will tell you more about the T-80.

                      Well, if I come across ...
                      I just remember a teacher on tactics, drawing tactical nuclear strikes on the map without regret ... he said that tanks would only be needed to overcome these pockets in the first place. By the way, they took it out of Germany, threw it out) ..
                      1. +1
                        10 July 2021 13: 27
                        In short, on the T-72, in addition to the PAZ system units, a thick lining was added on the tower, hull and hatches, made of some kind of mixture of rubber and lead (it burns well, experts do not recommend burning it, but the driver's seat has two layers of lead , and on the back of the seat there is one more.All this weighs more than 60 kg.And everything else is standard, the FVU, which creates a back up inside, a system of sealing and damping the engine.
                      2. 0
                        10 July 2021 13: 32
                        So all the same, Lieutenant Colonel Frolov did not "pump" much ...
                        And on the "Peonies" that we had to deal with there was also a set of dosimetric equipment - there were guys from the very front line, everyone could replace a control platoon on their own ... and topographers and engineers ...
                      3. +1
                        10 July 2021 14: 31
                        After Chernobyl, DP-22 "pencils" were issued for all exercises, accounting cards were introduced, but few people knew that. And the usual level outdoors we had about 100 microrengen per hour. A high level of solar radiation, and even to the uranium open mine was several hundred kilometers, but the wind sometimes also carried this rubbish. In 1990 he returned to Belarus, then there was a slight psychosis on this topic. All sores were attributed to Chernobyl.
                      4. +1
                        10 July 2021 14: 33
                        Quote: AlexGa
                        After Chernobyl, we were given "pencils" DP-2 for all exercises

                        I don't remember the name, but the standard equipment for radiochemical reconnaissance.
  12. +2
    8 July 2021 01: 27
    1) To the developer of filters for gas turbine engines, I would ask the question why the Americans have filters that are much better.
    2) GTE now, due to a number of improvements, eats far from 2 times more fuel. And all it was worth tackling the issue, and not just crap a helicopter engine on the tank.
    3) both GTE and Diesel are now successfully used. And here's the question, and if we have crap weighing more than 48 tons loved by our designers, say, 75, we need to accelerate acceptable, they are like diesel with 2k + hp. will they be able to do, or will they continue to prove that the GTE should not be developed at all?
  13. +4
    8 July 2021 05: 56
    Still, it seems to me that the future belongs to gas turbine engines. And speaking of their shortcomings, it is necessary to work this way, to create new highly productive filters, to make the gas turbine engine more economical, etc. After all, in general, the advantages of the gas turbine engine outweigh their disadvantages.
  14. +2
    8 July 2021 07: 36
    Our GTD-1000 and GTD-1250, in addition to the air cleaner, are equipped with dust blowing from the turbine blades and vibration cleaning RSA. The designers have thought of everything for a long time. With proper operation of these systems, the engine is insensitive to dust and with a standard air cleaner.
    Well, in deserts and on loess soils, the problems of increased wear are the same for diesel engines and for gas turbine engines.
  15. +5
    8 July 2021 13: 43
    Author Evgeny Fedorov:
    Time, as we can see, put everything in its place and showed who was really right.

    And what has time shown?
    The conclusions do not seem obvious and unambiguous to me.
    Especially in light of future prospects.
  16. 0
    8 July 2021 17: 24
    Also, among the positive aspects, engineers singled out reduction in the area of ​​inlet and outlet openings in the tank hull - the engine did not need air for cooling. This bonus made the tank's MTO more resistant to the impact of the shock wave of a nuclear explosion.

    But there were also enough minuses - ... The fragility of the gas turbine engine was explained by its extreme sensitivity to dustiness in the air. GTE, ceteris paribus consumed 4-8 times more air than a diesel engine, and required non-trivial solutions for cleaning dust.

    On one side: "The area for air is smaller - no air was required for cooling", and on the other side, the engine: "consumed 4-8 times more air".
    It is very interesting - the air for cooling turns out to enter through the holes in the case, and the air for the combustion of fuel does not need any holes to enter the case. How gazias come out of the engine body and how many are also unclear.
  17. +2
    10 July 2021 00: 33
    This discussion reflected the situation when the reserves for improving the diesel engine available to the Soviet school of engine building were fully realized, and it became impossible to improve further. And the specific characteristics of the engine stepped over the conditional line beyond which the advantages of the gas turbine engine were manifested more fully. A full range of technological support for the production of tank gas turbine engines was also implemented, and scientific personnel were trained, adapted to the structure of the medium machine. In the late 80s, it was possible - the entire 29x product family was taking it to new horizons. But that did not happen. Unique industrial solutions for processing parts with high precision (grade 14 and even 16) were lost, the technology of extended cyclones (super cyclone) for cleaning large volumes of air for a transport gas turbine engine was lost. The control algorithms for automatic transmission and hydraulic control systems, implemented in the form of spaced-apart analog computers, which make it possible to realize the specific power up to the nominal limit of 150 hp / t for the implementation of dynamic protection principles, which, as then and today, are absolutely unattainable even for top diesel engines, turned out to be unclaimed. engines. And today the very concept of boxers and hammers is outdated, and already unpromising. Armata is the super-profit of the NATO bloc, which in response simply does not need to do anything for another decades.
  18. 0
    11 July 2021 08: 46
    Quote: mat-vey
    there is almost no difference between the T-72 and the T-80

    the cost of the engine is only 36 times higher
    Quote: Thrifty
    123456789 - we read in 88 a fragment of a report on prices - a gas turbine engine cost 137 thousand rubles, and a diesel with a capacity of 780 l / s cost 3,800 rubles!

    Born to crawl wanted to fly! soldier
  19. Eug
    +1
    27 August 2021 14: 02
    After studying at the Faculty of Aviation Engines of the KhAI, my friend was assigned to the Malyshev plant and was engaged in the design of air cleaning equipment for a gas turbine engine. According to the requirements, it turned out to be some kind of monster (if I am not mistaken - it was in 1985), including 11 cleaning cascades.
  20. 0
    30 September 2021 07: 28
    The fact that the turbine can be fed to almost everything that burns was not taken into account? In the offensive of the T-80 and T-72. The tanker did not arrive (bombed), and a distillery was nearby. The T-80 refueled and drove off, but the T-72 was still ....

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