The most unusual submarine battle of World War II

107

Wreckage of the U-864 boat near Fedje Island, reconstruction

For more than a century history modern submarine warfare, submarines have repeatedly collided with each other and often engaged in battle. Moreover, during all this time there was only one successful battle, when both boats were submerged.

Unique for underwater fleet the clash took place at the end of World War II off the coast of Norway. On February 9, 1945, the British submarine Venturer torpedoed and sank the German submarine U-864 with a cargo of strategic raw materials and supplies for Japan.



Mercury and advanced technology for Japan


By the end of 1944, all sane people understood that the Axis countries were losing the war. True, in Berlin and Tokyo there were still a sufficient number of fanatical political and military leaders who did everything possible to gain as much time as possible, including in the struggle for their own lives.

At the end of World War II, Germany tried to help its Pacific ally to prolong Japan's participation in the war. As such, Berlin was ready to provide Tokyo with advanced technologies and scarce materials. So the Germans hoped to extend the resistance to Japan and win for themselves some extra months, in the hope of straightening out the plight at the fronts. Ultimately, Berlin fell under the blows of Soviet troops, and Japan held out in the war longer than its European ally.

In December 1944, an operation codenamed "Caesar" began in Germany. The purpose of the operation was to transfer advanced technologies and scarce raw materials to Japan. The only option to get to Japan was to use large German ocean-going submarines. At that time, there was not a single chance to break through to the shores of Japan on a surface ship.

In Operation Caesar, the German command used a large IXD2-class ocean-going submarine. The submarine was supposed to deliver blueprints and parts for modern German jet fighters to Japan. In particular, drawings and details of the Me-163 Komet rocket plane, the Me-262 fighter, German-made jet engines, as well as signed contracts for their licensed production in the Land of the Rising Sun.


In addition, on board the boat were drawings of submarines of the Caproni and Satsuki type, drawings of the radar company Siemens. Blueprints of the Italian Campini jet fighter. According to the American researcher of the submarine war in the Atlantic, Clay Blair, several German and Japanese designers were also on board the submarine as passengers.

The most dangerous cargo on board the German submarine was mercury. A total of 1835 containers filled with mercury were loaded onto the boat. In total, there were about 65 tons of mercury on board. The rare metal was vital to the Japanese war industry.

Representing opponents


A delicate and dangerous mission was entrusted to the large ocean-going IXD2 submarine numbered U-864.

The IXD2 type submarines were the culmination of the development of German ocean-going boats of the "ninth" series. It was a large surface submarine with a displacement of 1616 tons and an underwater one of 2150 tons. The greatest length of the boat was 87,6 meters, the width of the hull was 7,5 meters. The maximum immersion depth of the boat is 230 meters.

The navigation autonomy of the submarine at a speed of 12 knots was estimated at 23700 nautical miles. The diesel-electric power plant of the submarine was represented by two diesel engines with a capacity of 2700 liters. from. each and two electric motors of 505 liters. from. The power plant provided the ship with a maximum surface speed of 19,2 knots and a maximum underwater speed of 6,9 knots.

The IXD2 submarines had powerful weapons. The boat carried 24 torpedoes of 533 mm caliber, there were six launchers on board. The artillery armament of the U-864 was represented by one 105-mm 10,5 cm SK L / 45 gun with 150 rounds of ammunition, as well as one 37-mm and one 20-mm anti-aircraft machine gun.

The most unusual submarine battle of World War II
British submarine HMS Venturer

The submarine U-864 was laid down on October 15, 1942 at the shipyard in Bremen. Launching took place on August 12, 1943, admission to the fleet took place on December 9, 1943. The boat was commanded by corvette captain Ralph-Reimar Wolfram.

From December to the end of October 1944, the U-864 submarine was part of the training flotilla. On November 1, 1944, she was transferred to the 33rd Kriegsmarine submarine flotilla. The submarines of this flotilla, in addition to combat patrols, were used as sea transports, transporting strategic raw materials and materials from Japan to Germany and from Germany to Japan.

The British learned about Operation Caesar thanks to German radio communications intercepted and decoded by intelligence. The British submarine HMS Venturer, which was of a much more modest size, was sent to intercept the enemy submarine with a valuable cargo on board.

The surface displacement of the British boat was only 662 tons, the underwater displacement was 742 tons. The maximum length is 62,48 meters, the maximum width of the hull is 4,88 meters. The boat was driven by two diesel engines with a capacity of 400 liters. from. each and two electric motors of 450 liters. from. An important advantage of the British boat was the high underwater speed - 10 knots, the maximum surface speed was 11,25 knots. The maximum immersion depth is 109 meters.

The armament of the submarine, belonging to the widespread British series of U-type submarines, was also more modest than the German one. A total of four 533 mm torpedo tubes and ammunition of 8 torpedoes on board. Artillery armament was represented by a 76,2-mm deck gun and three 7,62-mm anti-aircraft machine guns.


Jimmy Loonders after the war, 1970s photo

The HMS Venturer (P68) was laid down under the military program on August 25, 1942, and launched on May 4, 1943. The boat was put into operation on August 19, 1943. The submarine was commanded by Lieutenant Jimmy Launders. The submarine actively participated in military campaigns since March 1944 and managed to sink several German and Norwegian merchant ships, as well as the German submarine U-771 on November 11, 1944.

But the most famous is rightly considered the 11th combat approach of HMS Venturer under the command of 25-year-old Lieutenant Launders. In turn, for the crew of the U-864 submarine, commanded by the 32-year-old corvette captain Ralph-Reimar Wolfram, the combat campaign in February 1945 was the first and last.

Successful underwater attack HMS Venturer


The Venturer submarine was sent to the area of ​​Fedier Island on the basis of a German radiogram intercepted and decoded by British intelligence. The boat was ordered to find, intercept and sink the German submarine U-864 with a strategic cargo for Japan on board.

On February 6, 1945, a British submarine arrived at the designated area and began patrolling. By that time, Wolfram had already passed the given square, but luck was on the side of the British. On February 8, the British were able to verify the coordinates and course of the German submarine by intercepting a message from U-864, which reported to the base that it was returning back to Bregen due to a diesel engine malfunction.

Having shown caution, the Germans decided to return to the base and on February 9, 1945, they found their death.

The two boats met in the morning. At 8:40 am, the acoustician aboard the Venturer heard propellers. At the same time, Lieutenant Launders decided not to use sonar in order not to betray himself. At about 10 o'clock in the morning, British sailors with the help of a periscope discovered a German submarine. At this point, Wolfram himself raised the periscope, trying to find the German ships that were supposed to escort him to the base. By that time, the U-864 was running on only one diesel engine, using a snorkel.


The bow of the boat U-864 near Fedje Island, reconstruction

After waiting for a while, Launders at 10:50 announced a military alert. By that time, he still had insufficient data to carry out a torpedo attack. The Venturer commander only knew the bearing to the target, but he also needed to get data on the course, speed and distance to the target. Venturer began to move on a parallel course to the right of the German submarine.

This persecution continued for a long time. Lieutenant Launders hoped the German submarine would surface, making it an easy target to attack. However, time passed and it became clear that the Germans were not planning to surface. At the same time, the U-864 was moving in a zigzag, most likely, on board it was already suspected of finding an enemy submarine nearby. Guided by the indirect information received, mainly by changing the bearing to the target, depending on the maneuvers of his own boat, Launders was gradually able to estimate the distance to the target, as well as the speed of the U-864 and the approximate size of the links of the broken line along which the Germans were walking.

The calculations Launders carried out with the help of available tools at hand. It is believed that the British officer used a tool of his own invention, which was a specialized version of a circular slide rule. After the end of World War II, both the instrument itself and the method of launching a torpedo attack along bearings will become standard practice.

From time to time, both boats continued to raise the periscope, which Launders used to refine the bearing to the target. It took the British officer about three hours to complete all the calculations and estimates. This time was enough for him to believe that he had studied the zigzag movement of the U-864 and its parameters well enough.

At 12:12 pm, the submarine Venturer fired a four-torpedo volley in a fan at the calculated point with the torpedo layout along the course and depth. Torpedo exit interval 17,5 seconds. On the German submarine, they heard the noise of going torpedoes and began an evasive maneuver into the depths.

The first three torpedoes missed their target, but the fourth provided a direct hit on the U-864 in the cockpit area.


The place of the sinking of the submarine U-864

At 12:14 pm, Lieutenant Launders recorded in the logbook that he heard a loud explosion, followed by the sounds of the destruction of the hull. And the acoustician of the British submarine reported that he no longer heard the noise of the propellers of the German boat. From the hit and explosion of a torpedo, the hull of the German submarine U-864 broke into two parts. The boat sank at a depth of approximately 150 meters.

Together with the boat, 73 people died - everyone on board the submarine.

For this effective attack, which was one of a kind with both submarines underwater, Lieutenant Launders received a re-awarding bar for his Distinguished Service Order.

German submariners received a grave at a depth of 150 meters, two miles from the Norwegian island of Fedje.

And the Norwegians are a big environmental problem that they are still trying to cope with. There is still no consensus in Norway on whether to raise the boat and its dangerous cargo or to mothball all the remains found right at the bottom.
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107 comments
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  1. +9
    July 4 2021
    Sergey thanks for the essay. In fact, the British were lucky three times and in all cases, showing healthy impudence, they caught luck by the tail!
    Why did the Germans take a passive stance in duels amazes me sincerely?
    1. +14
      July 4 2021
      In addition to luck, the radio interception service and "Ultra" helped a lot ...
      I think that if the boat was using a snorkel, the noise of the diesel engine prevented the German hydroacoustics from detecting the enemy in time. Again we went home, relaxed ..
      1. +4
        July 4 2021
        Most likely, they should just send their basic drawings by encrypted radio - radio fax was already known for a long time and was even used for weather maps and business documents and is still popular with business Japanese. The point is in the Japanese system of measurements - then the Germans worked in metric, Americans in inch and the Japanese - in inch, traditional Japanese non-metric, and were just starting to switch to metric. In the early 1930s, Japanese units of measurement had very strong opponents of the metric system, and it is unlikely that their industry could directly reproduce blueprints in metal immediately. And for the transmission of basic general drawings, not only is a radio office not needed - you can manually remove the coordinates of the lines in the Cartesian system from a paper sheet and transfer them with a telegraph key with encryption - there are no more than a few thousand of them and a dozen people will cope in ten days - faster than the flight ends.
        1. +19
          July 4 2021
          you can manually remove the coordinates of the lines in the Cartesian system from a paper sheet and transmit it with a telegraph key with encryption
          A good idea! I suggest that you manually digitize this circuit for its practical check.

          And according to these points received by radio, you can restore the drawing of the Me-262 fighter ... hi wassat
          1. +3
            July 4 2021
            Now the upper part of the wing profile would be conveyed by the equation of the spline, discovered in 1946.
            But even without knowing it, you can convey it in a simplified way by combining arcs and curves already known at that time in mathematics and geometry. And this is enough for specialists to reconstruct the drawing. If there is a radio fax, the situation is much simpler: cut the copies on A0 into pieces, mark them with a scheme and run them through the apparatus until the other side confirms the receipt of each piece. I wrote - the immediate use of drawings was possible if the Germans developed coordinating measurement systems for each detail - each Yap plant could have its own. Most likely, this applied only to the projects of submarines, which were originally made for them according to the equipment and measurement systems of specific factories, but, for example, not to the radar. Otherwise, it is easier to convey technological secrets - and these are usually not drawings, but scientific articles and technological instructions - and this is just text that easily passes through encryption and a telegraph key. And the rest of the Japanese would have done themselves - for example, on the basis of the transferred, quickly modernize the existing submarines and their production, they would have done it faster than making completely new ones in a foreign system of measurements and materials science - then, after all, the global market for modern rolled steel and assortment is still essentially , was not - all their own.
            Recordings of radio transmissions on reel-to-reel tape recorders then knew how to make and broadcast - so that even interference would not prevent the information from reaching the addressee. Yes, and you could have guessed to write a set of ciphers directly in the drawing encoding classes.
            1. +4
              July 4 2021
              "If there is a radio fax, the situation is much simpler: cut the copies on A0 into pieces, mark them with the scheme and run them through the apparatus until the other side confirms the receipt of each piece."

              A 15x20cm photograph was transmitted via telephone lines in about 8 minutes. The transmission speed over the radio channel from Berlin to Tokyo is unknown to me, but I think that it is an order of magnitude higher. Therefore, it was theoretically possible to transfer the drawings to Japan by phototelegraph, but in practice ... request
              1. +1
                July 4 2021
                One year is 500 minutes; it is possible to work in parallel at different frequencies and from different radio centers - even transmit a signal to different transmitters from the radio center via underground cables - then there were underground networks and automatic radio transmitters were already appearing for radio broadcasting centers. There was a lot to be done.
                1. 0
                  July 5 2021
                  Please tell me how long it will take to transfer one sheet of A0 from Berlin to Tokyo. There are numbers only for telephone lines, but, unfortunately, there is no data on the transmission speed over the radio.
                  1. +2
                    July 5 2021
                    Radio faxes are transmitted at 4160 baud. 4160 baud equals 3 bps

                    Resolution 75 DPI - for text documents;
                    Resolution 150 DPI - minimum quality for printing images;
                    Since we have a drawing, let the DPI be 75-150.
                    A0 format size (841 x 1189 mm) in pixels
                    at DPI = 75, the resolution of the A0 format is 2483 × 3511 pixels, 2483 × 3511 = 8717813;
                    at DPI = 150, the resolution of the A0 format is 4967 × 7022 pixels, 4967 × 7022 = 34878274;
                    Monochrome (2 ^ 1): 1 pixel = 1/8 byte (1 bit).
                    (34878274/3328) / 60 = 175 minutes.
                    Everything is calculated without taking into account the possibility of transmitting and receiving in parallel, as well as the existing ability to accelerate the transmitted recording on a wire recorder.
                    And even that was quite a lot - enough to send newspapers by radio to readers using the Finch Faxsimile system.
                    https://ru.xcv.wiki/wiki/Automatic_Picture_Transmission
                    https://ru.xcv.wiki/wiki/Radiofax
                    https://yablyk.com/954417-size-paper-in-pixel-from-dpi-table/
                    1. +1
                      July 5 2021
                      One page of a facsimile newspaper 8 1/2 inches long and 4 columns wide (approximately A4) was transmitted for 15 minutes. At a distance of 20-30 miles to the radio station.
                      Provide high-quality transmission on HF .... request
                      Here is some fan material about it. Read the comments. https://habr.com/ru/post/250989/

                      Imagine - the Germans are transmitting a fragment of the drawing, while the British are jamming the frequency with them ..
                      I will repeat myself. Theoretically, it is possible. In practice, it is very difficult. hi Thanks for the conversation.
              2. +2
                July 5 2021
                Dip mail as an option
                1. +1
                  July 5 2021
                  The Germans already had few sympathizers at that time (with diplomatic relations). And before them sail by sea - to Argentina, for example. It is better to go to the Himalayas, to Tibet and from there to India or to the Chinese territories occupied by the Japanese. It is even possible to fly by plane over the Himalayan mountains. The first ever mid-air refueling between Airco DH.4 aircraft. June 27, 1923. Since then, air refueling has been used for record flights. Another option is to hide the scientific and technical "treasure" in the Russian Arctic and then take it away from there. Everything is very difficult to implement. That is why the submarine was equipped and not entrusted to the postmen.
                  Therefore, it is easiest to use fax - anyway, there were no jammers in the direction of the Chinese territories and the Russian taiga and the Himalayas, and the Japanese would have accepted everything in places and without any special problems.
                  1. 0
                    July 5 2021
                    Thank you. I didn't even know about refueling.
                2. +1
                  July 7 2021
                  Quote: FireLake
                  Dip mail as an option

                  Oh yeah!!!! From Germany through the USSR by diplomatic post in 1945 .....
                  Quote: ycuce234-san
                  ... Otherwise, it is easier to convey technological secrets - and these are usually not drawings, but scientific articles and technological instructions - and this is just text that easily passes through encryption and a telegraph key.

                  What if????!!!! If the USSR foolishly intercepts and deciphers? !!!
                  Drive technology through the enemy in war, to put it mildly, a strange way
                  1. -1
                    July 8 2021
                    It is possible through Turkey and BV. I quite think they could have sent some things
                    1. +1
                      July 8 2021
                      Quote: FireLake
                      It is possible through Turkey and BV. I quite think they could have sent some things

                      Iran (occupied) and India (English) on the way, no ??? feel
                      1. 0
                        July 8 2021
                        They could have been by plane. There was a Japanese base in northern China.
                      2. -1
                        July 9 2021
                        In British India there were people and organizations sympathizing with the Germans in private (volunteers served in the Indian Legion), clans of entrepreneurs, officials and security forces. Therefore, the local anti-British partisans could well take the cargo and even land the plane and refuel on the ground - at a secret airfield in the jungle or on a lake or river for seaplanes. Nowadays, Latin American drug lords do this - they refuel in the jungle and bring the air fuel there. Submarines also supply their own with fuel - you can't replenish stocks at official refueling points.
                      3. +1
                        July 9 2021
                        Quote: FireLake
                        They could have been by plane. There was a Japanese base in northern China.

                        Quote: ycuce234-san
                        In British India there were people and organizations sympathizing with the Germans in private (volunteers served in the Indian Legion), clans of entrepreneurs, officials and security forces.

                        all this is great (as well as proposals to send by radio fax, plane or diplomatic courier) - but the Germans (what a marvel !!!) decided to send these technologies by submarine .... for RELIABILITY...
                        The people amicably manipulate delivery methods without understanding that the probability of interception is enormous, and the damage in the event of information leakage is extremely high ...

                        ZYWolfram drove mercury.... this is something belay lol
                      4. 0
                        July 9 2021
                        They will intercept the encryption and it will be difficult to break it - then there were already mechanical encryption machines and good ciphers.
                        Undeciphered German radio messages are still being broken - for example, from 1942 to 2006: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4763854.stm
                      5. 0
                        July 9 2021
                        Quote: ycuce234-san
                        They will intercept the encryption and it will be difficult to break it - then there were already mechanical encryption machines and good ciphers.

                        yes, I already understood you ...
                        the Germans were a half-savage tribe - they lived in the forest and prayed to the wheel ...
                        you offered them so many gorgeous ways - but they do it the old fashioned way ...
                        "Nutty !!!! © Zadornov

                        The probability of finding out (and preventing !!!) whether there was an interception or not, according to your suggestions, is zero.
                        The probability of capturing a submarine is quite low. Moreover, there are ways to destroy the documentation - a wagon (from the banal opening of kingstones in a deep place to 15-20 kg of explosives)
                      6. 0
                        July 9 2021
                        No - their information will become obsolete before it is deciphered. Therefore, it is not even necessary to prevent interception or send a boat - after years, all the secrets of the technology will become obsolete.
                        But they still thought differently - having all the means on hand, they would transfer the material medium, and their descendants would transmit information, and the media on both sides of the transmission channel would be their own.
                      7. 0
                        July 9 2021
                        okay okay, calm down ...
                        They just didn't know you ...
                        Well, imagine that Vannikov proposes to drive all the technical documentation for sub-calibers to England - on the radio ... then they would have slapped him - like a German / Soviet / English agent - they could not know what they would not decipher - they could not ...
                      8. 0
                        July 9 2021
                        At that time, cipher messages on the radio were the norm for a long time - https://proza.ru/2020/05/20/861
                        https://topwar.ru/152099-shifrovalnaja-sluzhba-sovetskogo-sojuza-radiosvjaz-u-nas-ne-ljubjat-chast-6.html
                        It is the idea of ​​transmitting technical information different from the text - this is what the Germans "broke" on - they broke their imagination on this. Although the example with weather maps on the radio has long been and they were leaders in them - it was enough to try to transmit a drawing of a drawing instead of a map. Even before the war, photographs were sent by fax for newspapers on different sides of the Atlantic. Faxes then were not standardized and it was enough to make unique changes to them, then they themselves became cipher machines, since they would transmit a unique signal. It was even possible to make such a machine in a separate copy and send it deviously after transmission as a "key" to the information recorded on a magnetic wire.
                      9. 0
                        July 9 2021
                        Tungsten is tired))))
                      10. 0
                        July 9 2021
                        The miracle is that ital planes up to 43 years flew to China. Route question ...
                    2. 0
                      July 9 2021
                      The Turks traded and were benevolent neutrals almost until the end of the war. Once we traded, there were no problems with logistics, even after abandoning neutrality, it was possible to send something through the old logistics links.
                    3. 0
                      July 9 2021
                      Metallic mercury is poorly soluble in water or hydrocarbons, and it could simply be poured into a ballast tank or fuel tank and in the ocean or on an uninhabited island for a rendezvous with a Japanese submarine to be overloaded with a pump and transfer documents. Hide it in an unusable ship sunk in the port, in a technological tank on board, and after the war, immediately in November-December 1945, raise it and sell it "along with a secret" to the knowledgeable Japanese.
                  2. 0
                    July 9 2021
                    At that time they already knew how to compose encryptions. A scientific article or technology document is almost pure text, and graphs and figures can be replaced with text descriptions or tables.
                    Therefore, you could safely send them not even by radio fax, but by radio telex - then telexes were much more popular and better known than now.
            2. +4
              July 4 2021
              "if there is a radio fax" why are the Germans so naive that they did not know how to use a radio fax?
              1. +4
                July 4 2021
                In 1903, there was already the first fax network connecting Berlin, London and Paris until 1910. Fax machines operated on the basis of photoelectric scanning - that is, they already had a selenium drum like modern machines. Weather data for an operational weather map was transmitted by the same telegraph as wire telegraph faxes since 1858 - with manual transmission, data was transmitted to points-weather stations and then restored from them, isobars, for example.
                The Germans did not think of connecting three components - a telegraph fax, a radio transmitter and a reel-to-reel tape recorder for transmission and recording and then, instead of a weather report, send out the drawings.
                And mercury could be sent to the Pacific region through the Russian North - since 1912 they knew that the Kaiser's submarine gets from Murmansk to Kamchatka in just ten days. They in those parts actively fought in WWI with submarines in 1914-1917. and even had a secret mine base on about. Ponoy.
                1. +3
                  July 4 2021
                  I didn't know about the telegraph and PMA at all.
                  During WWII, the Germans had a secret airfield in the Arkhangelsk region, a base for submarines
                  1. +5
                    July 4 2021
                    Base about. Ponoy is an earlier one, judging by the finds, it was secretly laid before or with the beginning of WWI. Moreover, the Germans went to the north on minesag submarines of the WWII era - still very imperfect, even in comparison with the WWII era in underwater technology - they blew up ships on mines in 1917 there. And he paved the way there for submarines in WWII ... an airship.
                    In 1930, the Soviet government approved the flight of the German airship "Graf Zeppelin" in the airspace of the USSR in order to jointly explore the Arctic region. And the airship simultaneously conducted reconnaissance aerial photography and the necessary meteorological observations there. So aerial reconnaissance was "on a level" even in the era of Ilyich.
              2. +4
                July 4 2021
                And the first weather maps on the radio - 1922, Germany.
          2. +3
            July 4 2021
            Now, in the editor, I dug the wing profile and he gave me the following equation coefficients: m 42.701879,196.94055 c 6.725615,0.32239 -6.47822,1.57006 -6.649926, -3.95004 1.176997, -9.54832 33.228711, -14.26832 51.244355 10.69939 , 36.782102,7.28659 v 47.326472,6.48074. This is a Bezier curve. But the predecessors of these Bezier curves were the Bernstein polynomials, known since 66.500112,14.43703. So if the Germans wanted to transfer something from the technological drawings, they would transfer it without a sweat.
            1. +4
              July 4 2021
              Dear friend, can you imagine the amount of work involved in translating the drawings of a fighter jet (and these are tens of thousands (!) Sheets) by hand into some kind of vector format?
              1. +1
                July 4 2021
                Why translate everything? Both the Germans and the Japanese understood that the war was over and they would not have time to put anything into production - it was already the end of 1944. They passed on secrets as a reserve for the future - the post-war future, in order to hide and then continue working, after the conclusion of peace. And there the volume is more harmful than useful - try to hide a thin folder with mathematics and fundamental secrets and 10 tons of waste paper with all sorts of details. And for individual mechanisms, which could still be used within a few months, they had a radio fax.
                Arthur Korn in 1902, just in Germany, demonstrated the first photovoltaic fax system, and in 1922 - a system based on radio signals. Faxes became widely used for the transmission of newspaper articles and weather maps - that is, the Germans were the leaders in photoelectric transmission of signals. And the Japanese could simply record these radio programs on reel-to-reel tape recorders - and use something immediately or hide it until better times. It is now a good blueprint for technology fiction and alternative history.
                On the other hand, it is a good illustration of how "thinking" has changed since those times - to descendants remote transmission of information is as familiar as air, and there they drove a whole warship with pieces of paper, although the operation of a radio center would have cost less than a diesel engine for a submarine ...
        2. Alf
          0
          July 4 2021
          Quote: ycuce234-san
          Most likely, they just should have sent their basic drawings by encrypted radio - radio fax was then already known for a long time and was even used for weather maps and business documents.

          And it is better to scan it and by e-mail ... Spies of all countries were stupid then, since everything was transferred to microfilm ...
          1. +2
            July 4 2021
            Most likely, it was the film and microfiche that was loaded onto the boat - German companies in any case then archived materials for themselves in this way, and the boat does not have large volumes of hold, and even mercury must be carried in it. Perhaps they will be able to get it and restore it sometime.
            1. Alf
              -1
              July 5 2021
              Quote: ycuce234-san
              Most likely, it was the film and microfiches that were loaded onto the boat - German companies in any case then archived materials for themselves in this way

              If you understand this, then why are you talking about radio delivery?
              1. +1
                July 5 2021
                There is no contradiction - fish and films are the same material carrier as paper, more compact, but they have to be transported. With a radio wave - no need to carry it: we move the information itself and not its material carrier.
                1. Alf
                  -1
                  July 5 2021
                  Quote: ycuce234-san
                  With a radio wave - no need to carry: we move the information itself

                  The only question is, how will it reach, will any point be lost? The Butterfly effect has not yet been canceled.
                  1. +1
                    July 5 2021
                    Will not get lost - in the middle of the sea, they calmly accept weather maps https://ru.xcv.wiki/wiki/Radiofax
                    And for reliability, transmit several times and compare - and the magnetic records would have remained and they could always be displayed on the TV screen - in 1940 television bloomed and smelled ...
                    The same Thor Heyerdahl on his reed ship would have come in handy - he sailed in 1949, and at that time there was no compact fax receiver for weather charts of modern yachtsmen, and standard ships were the size of a curbstone.
                    1. Alf
                      -2
                      July 5 2021
                      Quote: ycuce234-san
                      Will not get lost - in the middle of the sea, they calmly accept weather maps

                      Now...
                      Quote: ycuce234-san
                      television in 1940 bloomed and smelled.

                      Especially in Japan ...
                      I think the military preferred to get the drawings on film and paper from the manufacturer.
                      1. +1
                        July 5 2021
                        Either they got it there, or they wouldn't get it at all - regardless of preference.
                        Since 1922, weather maps have been transmitted by radio and wires - neither sailors nor meteorologists complained about their quality either in the roaring 1920s or now. German submariners, by the way, out of economy, were deprived of standard radio faxes in the radio room and listened to both the WWII and WWII weather reports in Morse code, but this did not apply to ground bases and other infrastructure. And until now, the weather is transmitted in Morse code, although mainly in foreign countries.
                      2. Alf
                        -2
                        July 5 2021
                        So how was it in Japan then with TV?
                        Quote: ycuce234-san
                        And until now, the weather is transmitted in Morse code, although mainly in foreign countries.

                        Yes, they took the tape recording and quietly deciphered it. And what about tape recorders in Japan in the 40s?
                      3. +2
                        July 5 2021
                        With mafons it was fine.
                        The history of reel to reel tape recorders dates back to 1878. Therefore, the Japanese bought tape recorders, household and professional, from the Germans even before the war - the Germans were the technological leaders in magnetic recording. Naturally, professional studio equipment, spare parts and consumables, not household items, were in circulation and in warehouses in abundance - it was required by Japanese broadcasting corporations.
                        Yes, and the Germans themselves used mafons on submarines to transmit rapidly recorded radio messages - it was safer that way, since the enemy listened to them attentively on the radio direction finders.
                        https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/テープレコーダー
                      4. Alf
                        -1
                        July 5 2021
                        Quote: ycuce234-san
                        in 1878 year

                        Which year? laughing
                      5. +2
                        July 5 2021
                        In that era, he was even called unusually - the telegraph.
                        https://xn----dtbjalal8asil4g8c.xn--p1ai/muzyika/istoriya-magnitofona.html
                      6. Alf
                        -1
                        July 5 2021
                        Quote: ycuce234-san
                        In that era, he was even called unusually - the telegraph.
                        https://xn----dtbjalal8asil4g8c.xn--p1ai/muzyika/istoriya-magnitofona.html


                        So what was there in Japan in 1878?
                      7. The comment was deleted.
                      8. 0
                        July 6 2021
                        In the USSR, before the war, a non-magnetic recording on film was created - optical, similar to sound recording on film. But the fashion for the magnetic prevailed. As a result, albeit with a great delay, the optical version of recording won, in its modern form these are CD discs.
                      9. +1
                        July 5 2021
                        By the way - Anna Karenina was born in 1878, and when making films about her, they do not understand that she used electricity, the telegraph, this advanced pribluda - the telegraph, and they show her "by candlelight in a hut and not" nude ".

                        Yes - people also preferred horses and locomotives and checkers on their sides.
                        But for a long time steam omnibuses drove along the roads, locomotives and steam tractors across the fields, and the first engines - the first motorists and motorcyclists - were cracking at drugstores and kerosene shops, paint and varnish shops.
                        In 1878, Scottish engineer Sir (knighted in 1917) Dugald Clerk developed the first compressed-air ignition two-stroke engine. He patented it in England in 1881.
                        Anne was the year when, in 1879, Karl Benz, built a completely reliable gasoline two-stroke engine and received a patent for it.
                        Therefore, she could well be portrayed as the geek and hipster of that era - for example, as the chairman of the society of women interested in telegraph and radio (invented several years before her birth).
                      10. Alf
                        0
                        July 5 2021
                        Quote: ycuce234-san
                        By the way - Anna Karenina was born in 1878, and when making films about her, they do not understand that she used electricity, the telegraph, this advanced pribluda - the telegraph, and they show her "by candlelight in a hut and not" nude ".

                        Yes - people also preferred horses and locomotives and checkers on their sides.
                        But for a long time steam omnibuses drove along the roads, locomotives and steam tractors across the fields, and the first engines - the first motorists and motorcyclists - were cracking at drugstores and kerosene shops, paint and varnish shops.
                        In 1878, Scottish engineer Sir (knighted in 1917) Dugald Clerk developed the first compressed-air ignition two-stroke engine. He patented it in England in 1881.
                        Anne was the year when, in 1879, Karl Benz, built a completely reliable gasoline two-stroke engine and received a patent for it.
                        Therefore, she could well be portrayed as the geek and hipster of that era - for example, as the chairman of the society of women interested in telegraph and radio (invented several years before her birth).

                        What would it mean? recourse request
                      11. +1
                        July 5 2021
                        On television, the Japanese, at first glance, in the pre-war period were not much worse than the USSR - the history of Japanese television and the television and radio industry is a confirmation of this. Before the war, they were preparing a large-scale production of consumer TVs, which means that small-scale and experimental production had already passed as a stage of development and their own TVs for the needs of the army and navy already existed.
                        http://dedovkgu.narod.ru/htv/htv09.htm
                      12. Alf
                        -1
                        July 5 2021
                        Quote: ycuce234-san
                        Before the war

                        You are right, I didn’t know.
                        But still, the military prefers to get the data on paper or on film at first hand.
            2. 0
              July 5 2021
              Most likely it was the film and microfiche that was loaded onto the boat.
              Most likely. I heard that Japan bought two sets of documentation for the Tiger tank from Germany. And it is precisely on microfilm. And even four tanks, but they could not deliver them. But no details. Here is a topic for the article, authors, ay!
        3. +2
          July 5 2021
          Radio fax is a good thing, but you cannot transmit mercury by radio fax. So the submarine will have to be driven anyway, so why not send the drawings and documentation along with the cargo at the same time? Moreover, interference with reception is fraught with the fact that instead of the Me-262, a steam locomotive will turn out.
          1. +2
            July 5 2021
            It will not work - the data will be transmitted several times and the result will be rechecked.
            Mercury, not quickly, but could well have sold or bartered for a surcharge - there were many firms that did business with Germany during the war and they could easily sell their stocks of mercury to the Japanese on the other side of the world in exchange for German mercury. Therefore, the Japanese would receive mercury, for example, American or British, from somewhere in a small Asian or African country, and the Germans would take their mercury out of Germany. The buyers could be Americans, for example.
            US trade with Japan did not stop throughout the war, by the way, the Japanese riveted the merchant fleet throughout the war:
            http://www.sdelanounih.ru/charlz-xajem-torgovlya-s-vragom-kak-amerika-pomogala-gitleru/
            http://samlib.ru/t/tolstoj_w_i/ekonomicheskiepotenshialisshaiyponiinakanunevmv.shtml
            Mercury can be taken out to sea by ship where it will be "captured as a prize" by buyers, for example.
    2. +4
      July 4 2021
      Vlad, hello hi
      Why did the Germans take a passive stance in duels amazes me sincerely?

      Yes, there was no duel, one boat successfully torpedoed another, and nothing more. And the result of the attack is very dubious, only one commander of the British boat was the winner, having received another award. But the Norwegians got hold of a serious problem that could come back to haunt them at any time in the future.
      If this German boat had come to Japan, all this early would not have affected the final stage of the war. Even if by some miracle the Japanese were able to build a pair of jet fighters, it would not have been able to turn the tide of the war in their favor. The Germans built them, but what's the point?
      Some started a senseless operation with the transfer of technology to the other end of the world, others drowned a boat stuffed with poisonous raw materials. Both were completely meaningless.
      I don't see anything heroic and tactically brilliant in the attack of the British submarine, the Germans did not suspect about the presence of the British submarine, they had a constant "zigzag", their acoustics were simply deaf from the diesel engine, so the attack took place practically in range conditions.
      So the question arises, "was it necessary?", The Norwegians will probably answer that no.
      1. +10
        July 4 2021
        That's just about the mercury on board the German boat, the British at that time did not know.
        1. +4
          July 4 2021
          I’m not so much about mercury as about the senselessness of the German boat’s march and about a completely ordinary British attack. By the way, if the British read the German codes, they might well know about the U-864 cargo.
          1. +10
            July 4 2021
            "Read" is too strong a word. There is a very interesting book "The Second World War: Mistakes, Misses, Losses". The author is British intelligence officer Len Dayton. It describes well how and what they could "read".
            1. +2
              July 4 2021
              I have not read this book, I will look on the net.
              1. -1
                July 6 2021
                And do not read, a collection of lies.
                1. 0
                  July 6 2021
                  Thank you. I'll figure it out.
            2. -1
              July 6 2021
              A very dubious source. This infa is checked in his book on the chapter "Barbarossa" and on "D-day". Rare nonsense and a bunch of nonsense. Your British military intelligence officer.
          2. +2
            July 4 2021
            Kostya, hello. Not the fact that the English knew about the cargo: the Germans could use the code name
            1. 0
              July 4 2021
              Hello, Glory.
              I wrote that "they COULD know," and not what they knew for sure.
  2. +8
    July 4 2021
    I remembered that the material on this topic by another author had already been on VO. Sad ...
    https://topwar.ru/151283-operacija-cezar-zakonchilas-edva-nachavshis.html
    More photos.
    1. +7
      July 4 2021
      Quote: tasha
      on this topic another author has already been to VO. Sad ...

      good drinks
      About the ecology of the place of death of U-864 -
      VO article from December 16 2018
      The Norwegian government decided on the basis of numerous reports and studies conducted by the NCA with the support of a wide range of experts who concluded that disposal is the best and most environmentally friendly solution for U-864. At 2019, the year 30 million NOK has been allocated for engineering, tender and general preparatory work. The capping is likely to be completed by the summer of 2020.

      VO article from July 04 2021
      And the Norwegians are a big environmental problem that they are still trying to cope with. There is still no consensus in Norway on whether to raise the boat and its dangerous cargo or to mothball all the remains found right at the bottom.

      October 16 2018
      Neutralization of the poisonous wreckage of the submarine is complicated by the fact that one of them lies on an underwater slope, and can crawl down and crack if you act carelessly. In June, the 2017 a huge prop was installed under this wreck to minimize the risk of shifting the remnants of the submarine.


      In 2013, Russian scientists from the Lomonosov Northern (Arctic) Federal University made an expedition on the Professor Molchanov research vessel across the White and Barents Seas, the hydrosphere of which has much in common with the hydrosphere of the North Sea, where a German submarine sank from cargo of mercury. The purpose of the expedition was to determine the content of heavy metals in sea water. Using the method of atomic absorption spectroscopy, among other things, the concentration of mercury in the waters of the White and Barents Seas was determined. It turned out to be insignificant, less than 0,1 µg / dm3 (which corresponds to the maximum permissible standards for the content of mercury in seawater), and the same “practically in all areas of hydrological sections”. Thus, if the content of one microgram of mercury in a cubic decimeter of seawater is permissible, that is, 10 tons in one cubic kilometer, then the water area of ​​the North Sea (area 750 thousand sq. Km, average depth 100 m) contains about 7,5 mln. tons of mercury, which does not exceed the permissible environmental standards. If we restrict ourselves to a water area with borders of 100x100 km, given that mercury can spread throughout the North Sea no earlier than many tens, if not hundreds of years, then it already contains one “normative” ton of mercury. For this reason, the annual leak of 3 kg of mercury from almost 2 thousand steel containers of the deceased submarine cannot have any effect on the marine ecology, as noted by the Norwegian scientists.
      (Vladimir Prokhvatilov, President of the Academy of Real Politics, expert of the Academy of Military Sciences - 30.01.2019 "Investigation" Vek ":" mercury bomb "in the Arctic?")

      On YouTube

      [media = https: //youtu.be/Nqq44til3mk]
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. +5
        July 4 2021
        The main problem is the avalanche-like release of mercury as a result of an unforeseen disaster - an underwater landslide on a slope, anchorage or the fall of another sunken ship. Therefore, while everything is good, it is more correct to spend a little money on scientific theoretical developments on a way to solve the problem and pay for its monitoring. A local university can do this under a contract - supply magnetoacoustoseismic sensors and mercury content sensors and develop and buy custom-made robotic inspectors, install a nearby bell station for aquanauts - then, decades later, the accumulated developments will help to learn how to solve such problems. class as there are many dangerous goods at the bottom. Mechanics from the Department of Mechanics and Mathematics can use the time to develop the necessary mechanisms and equipment and test them, hydrogeologists and soil scientists can deal with the problem of stability of the underwater slope. The depths there are not extremely deep, so such a scientific project is quite possible.
  3. +5
    July 4 2021
    - Perfectly trained commander of this submarine ... - Lieutenant Jimmy Launders: and the whole crew is perfectly prepared ... - Well ... - the result is obvious: a more powerful German submarine was sunk ...
  4. +6
    July 4 2021
    It was a large surface submarine with a displacement of 1616 tons and an underwater one of 2150 tons.


    In the photo, the submarine U-181, type IXD2.
    2150 cubic meters is the total displacement of the IXD2 submarine. The submarine displacement for this type of submarine, that is, the displacement of the submarine, exceeding the surface displacement by the mass of water taken into the main ballast tanks - 1804 tons.
  5. +12
    July 4 2021

    Left - Venturer Commander James Stuart Launders, right - U 864 Commander Ralph-Reimar Wolfram.
    1. +4
      July 4 2021
      Oh, now the local Black Sea marine objects have tightened up with minuses.
      1. +5
        July 4 2021
        Vic, hello hi
        Well, why exactly "Black Sea", there are enough garbage dumps and latrines in all reservoirs.
      2. +2
        July 4 2021
        Why is this so important? I noticed that many adults and educated people here inadequately painfully perceive this action.
        1. +4
          July 4 2021
          Nothing painful, just humor. You just are not aware of some "corporate" relations.
          1. +3
            July 4 2021
            The opposite corporation is usually silent about this))
            1. +1
              July 4 2021
              Of course he is silent, so as not to identify himself. Local haters are so silent.
            2. -2
              July 4 2021
              The resource administration destroyed the "corporation" three years ago.
              1. Alf
                +4
                July 4 2021
                Quote: 3x3zsave
                The resource administration destroyed the "corporation" three years ago.

                Why do you think so ? I recently brought a quote from Jules Verne, ogreb a bunch of minuses.
                1. +2
                  July 5 2021
                  A bunch of cons can be raked just by saying hello. Negativeness is irrational.
                2. +1
                  July 7 2021
                  Quote: Alf

                  Why do you think so ? I recently brought a quote from Jules Verne, ogreb a bunch of cons

                  In total, I blasted more than 70 cons on two of my comments in the vaccination debate. And it was definitely an unmentioned Order. Here a gang of watering cans formed haters.
              2. AUL
                +2
                July 5 2021
                Quote: 3x3zsave
                The resource administration destroyed the "corporation" three years ago.

                Where will she go, a corporation (aka "order")? The characters are all in place! As before, they amicably minus the "dissidents" and add up the "correct" ones, pumping up their ratings. Want an example?
                Recently, a character with a very speaking nickname appeared on VO (we will not point the finger who. Everyone already knows him, climbs into all the holes without soap). It is expressed exclusively in slogans and nonsense. So, for incomplete 3 months was GENERAL! Do you think this could have happened without targeted, organized support?
                And how well this illustrates the wretchedness of the system of ratings and rank-making adopted at VO!
                1. +1
                  July 5 2021
                  and what do you, specifically you, lack in life? love? heat?
                  1. +4
                    July 5 2021
                    Quote from AUL
                    corporation (aka "order"

                    Quote: novel xnumx
                    and what do you, specifically you, lack in life?
                    hi Roma, we'll wait until they ask the admins to return Order, the cons for stupidity should be attributed to someone: everything is according to the manual lol
                    1. AUL
                      0
                      July 7 2021
                      Roman, Pete Mitchell, a essentially can you object anything to my post? So, specifically and with evidence?
                      Roman, I always read your comments on technical issues with interest. So why should you stoop to cheap demagoguery?
                      PS And I don’t care about the pros and cons and shoulder straps - I have long gone out of that age when they chase cardboard stars!
                      1. +2
                        July 7 2021
                        It's just that three years have passed, and everything Order remember after the minuses are caught: enough in essence? And with all of this
                        Quote from AUL
                        I don't care about the pros and cons and shoulder straps ..
                        Good day, take a closer look
                      2. AUL
                        +1
                        July 7 2021
                        I asked - to the point and to the point!
                      3. +3
                        July 7 2021
                        Quote from AUL
                        behind incomplete 3 months was GENERAL! ... how well this illustrates the wretchedness of the rating and rank-making system adopted at VO!

                        Or maybe it illustrates something else?
                      4. AUL
                        +1
                        July 7 2021
                        That is, there will be essentially no conversation. So goodbye. As an interlocutor, you are not interesting to me.
                      5. +3
                        July 7 2021
                        What do you propose to talk about? That some without Order can't live and remember him constantly? About specific characters and ratings - this is for the admins. I am this comment about the appeal to the admins about reincarnation Order ten times a year I repeat myself for fun.
          2. +3
            July 4 2021
            I don't know either. Enlighten, Victor Nikolaevich?
  6. +9
    July 4 2021
    Uv. the author, not a launcher, but a torpedo tube. It's hard for a sailor to read this))))
  7. +1
    July 4 2021
    ... did not understand ... the Deutsch was walking under the snorkel and the English under the periscope ... that is, the MIN speed of the Deutsch is 6-8 knots (even with one diesel engine, let it be 5 knots), but the Angle snorkel DID NOT ... he was able to keep in touch with Deutsch during the mentioned 3 hours .. I doubt that Angle had such a powerful battery as the Doychevs XXIs .. in general, as Stanislavsky said, I DON'T BELIEVE !!!
    1. +5
      July 4 2021
      in general, as Stanislavsky would say, I DO NOT BELIEVE !!!

      Here is not Stanislavsky, here is Thomas.
      Neither at home nor at school,
      Nowhere, nobody -
      Did not believe
      Stubborn Thomas
      Nothing.
      The maximum speed of the German submarine under the snorkel is 5 knots.
      The maximum underwater speed of a British class V submarine is 10 knots.
      Range underwater two-node course - 120 miles. That is, at a speed of 2 knots, the battery lasted 60 hours. Obviously, the battery is sufficient for three hours at 5 knots.
  8. +1
    July 4 2021
    "intercepted and decoded by intelligence" it seems, it was called: "Enigma" - "mystery"
  9. BAI
    +2
    July 4 2021
    The first three torpedoes missed their target, but the fourth provided a direct hit on the U-864 in the cockpit area.

    Lucky. Since the Germans were under the snorkel, the attack can be viewed as an attack on a conventional surface object. The direction of attack is calculated. And the depth? Normal attack on a surface target. That does not detract from the merits of the British. We must give them their due.
  10. +3
    July 4 2021
    Yes, Britain was the same great power, but now there are clowns with a newcomer and documents at the bus stop.
  11. +1
    July 5 2021
    Questions about the article
    1. It seems that the British went on batteries and an electric motor, and the Germans with a diesel engine. In principle, it is understandable why the Germans did not hear them, but the British could not keep such a speed for a long time, as under a diesel engine, so they had to hurry. In addition, the Germans could dive deeper and the attack would have failed.
    2 from the article it is not clear which torpedoes the British used. If homing, then 4 torpedoes are too much. If not, this is all the more strange, the submarine is not the largest target, and even more so since the accuracy of the noise bearing is not the highest.
    3. It is unclear, at the time of the launch of the torpedoes, did the Germans have a periscope sticking out or not? If not, then at what depth did the torpedoes go - the Germans could have gone deeper at that moment.
    4. How did the British determine the heading angle? At the same time, the Germans walked for some time, making sure that the changes to the boat did not change?
    In general, it is obvious that a blind attack was not the easiest one, as you can read in the comments, especially if it was carried out with conventional bipedal torpedoes.
    1. 0
      July 5 2021
      according to point 4 .. even having determined the speed of the U-boat following a parallel course, you need to then get ahead of the target by going forward and become perpendicular to the Deutsche course (for everyone who is not aware of only the Soviets and the British did not have a HUD on the submarine ... that is, they could not turn TD after exiting the TD of the devices at a given angle) which means you need a spurrite for all 10 knots (and at such speeds the English will make NOISE and much) .... and this after the declared 3 hours of calculations ... that is, I repeat NOT I BELIEVE (and not because FOMA .. (from Undecim
      Yesterday, 13:28) and then what can I think and compare ... and something does not add up here ... something like that
      1. -1
        July 5 2021
        It was not necessary to shoot torpedoes strictly perpendicular
        Now, if the Germans walked all this time under a diesel engine, then the following conclusions follow:
        1. If the British saw the German snorkel, and unlike the periscope, he had to stick out all the time, then the distance between the boats was small, which simplified the matter
        The Germans could not hear the British due to the fact that they had a diesel engine - the British simplified the task and allowed them to be near the Germans for a long time. If the Germans had suspected the presence of the British, they would have switched to an electric motor, gone into the depths - and it would have been very difficult for the British to hit, even with a homing torpedo.
        2. The presence of a snorkel indicates that the depth of the German was strictly periscope, which allows you to set the depth of the torpedo
        3. Strictly speaking, if the British observed the snorkel, it was not an acoustic bearing attack
        That is, the article does not indicate various possible nuances, Perhaps, significantly changing the case, but nevertheless, it is certain that the attack was not an ordinary one.
        1. 0
          July 6 2021
          ... I will not say right off the bat what is the permissible cocking angle of the TD for the Angles, but it is hardly less than 75 * ... and considering that the TD had a contact fuse (I remind you that the Deutsches and Amers had a magnetic one) and the PL is not a freighter, then everything is WISHED - the same angle is close to 90 * ...
  12. -2
    July 5 2021
    The German boat was powered by a diesel engine using a snorkel. This cannot be called an underwater battle.
    1. 0
      July 5 2021
      The Germans went underwater, the British too
      Formally underwater combat
  13. +2
    July 5 2021
    op
    Quote: ycuce234-san
    Now the upper part of the wing profile would be conveyed by the equation of the spline, discovered in 1946.
    But even without knowing it, you can convey it in a simplified way by combining arcs and curves already known at that time in mathematics and geometry. And this is enough for specialists to reconstruct the drawing. If there is a radio fax, the situation is much simpler: cut the copies on A0 into pieces, mark them with a scheme and run them through the apparatus until the other side confirms the receipt of each piece. I wrote - the immediate use of drawings was possible if the Germans developed coordinating measurement systems for each detail - each Yap plant could have its own. Most likely, this applied only to the projects of submarines, which were originally made for them according to the equipment and measurement systems of specific factories, but, for example, not to the radar. Otherwise, it is easier to convey technological secrets - and these are usually not drawings, but scientific articles and technological instructions - and this is just text that easily passes through encryption and a telegraph key. And the rest of the Japanese would have done themselves - for example, on the basis of the transferred, quickly modernize the existing submarines and their production, they would have done it faster than making completely new ones in a foreign system of measurements and materials science - then, after all, the global market for modern rolled steel and assortment is still essentially , was not - all their own.
    Recordings of radio transmissions on reel-to-reel tape recorders then knew how to make and broadcast - so that even interference would not prevent the information from reaching the addressee. Yes, and you could have guessed to write a set of ciphers directly in the drawing encoding classes.

    Yeah, and transfer tons of mercury and ready-made jet engines in Morse code. And just send the constructors by teleport. And what, since fantasizing, then in full;)

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