Modernization of TAVKR "Admiral Kuznetsov": what will Russia get?

151

Photo: Christopher Michel / flickr.com

A long story with an unknown ending


In June, the heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser (TAVKR) made me talk about itself again "Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union Kuznetsov"... Back in 2018, the Russian Ministry of Defense and the United Shipbuilding Corporation entered into an agreement for medium repair and limited modernization of the ship. According to a recent statement by Vladimir Korolev, vice president for military shipbuilding at USC, the completion of the work was postponed to 2023.

“The renovation and modernization of Admiral Kuznetsov will be completed in the first half of 2023. Avionics, a flight deck with a springboard, power equipment, and a power plant will be completely replaced. The ship will receive a new aircraft take-off and landing control system entirely of domestic design. Deck composition aviation will remain the same, there will be no strike weapons on the cruiser, it will be equipped with the Pantsir-M anti-aircraft missile and cannon system, "Korolev said.

In general, this is a completely expected phenomenon. Recall that in recent years, the ship has become involved in several high-profile emergencies at once. On October 30, 2018, the floating dock PD-50 sank, the aircraft carrier was damaged by the fall of the dock crane, but remained afloat. And on December 12, 2019, a fire broke out on the ship: according to official data, the damage was not critical. The United Shipbuilding Corporation estimated the damage from the fire at 500 million rubles.




Source: mil.ru

You can also recall the "strange" trip of the ship to the shores of Syria, when, as a result of flight accidents, two fighters were lost: the old Su-33 and the newer MiG-29K, but this does not directly relate to the essence of the issue.

Modernization details


The aircraft carrier was launched back in 1985. That is, it is a conditional peer of the American USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN-71) of the Nimitz type, which in the foreseeable future will be replaced by a new ship of the Gerald R. Ford type. The aircraft carrier, whose name is still unknown, will enter service around 2034. So far, we recall that the Americans have only one ship of this type - the USS Gerald R. Ford (CVN-78).

It is logical that the ship, which was called "problematic" in the West, was decided to be modernized "insofar as". We can say that we are talking about a stripped-down version of modernization. Recall that in 2017, a source in the military-industrial complex said that during the repair and modernization of the aircraft-carrying cruiser, the Granit missile system will be replaced with the Caliber-NK missile system.

To launch these missiles, use is made of the versatile 3S14 vertical mounts, a notable feature of which is the ability to use the new Zircon hypersonic missile (vertical mounts also allow the use of Onyx anti-ship missiles).

In general, the P-700 Granit is what distinguishes the Russian ship from other aircraft carriers. The giant rocket weighs 7000 kilograms and can hit targets at a range of approximately 600 kilometers. We cannot judge for sure about its capabilities, since the missile has never been used in battle. However, we repeat, other countries have chosen a different path for the development of their aircraft carriers, turning them into large floating airfields, devoid of strike weapons. This applies not only to the United States, but also, for example, the PRC, which previously received a twinned TAVKR "Admiral Kuznetsov" in the person of "Varyag" (now "Liaoning").


Photo: Baycrest / wikimedia.org

As follows from the text of Vladimir Korolev's statement, Russia has decided not to reinvent the wheel and follow in the footsteps of other countries of the world. Combat aviation is the main (in fact) the only real weapon... The solution of other tasks, including the use of cruise missiles, can be provided by other ships that are part of an aircraft carrier strike group, but they cannot carry fighter-bombers on board purely physically (I must say, the TAVKR concept itself was initially at least strange).

As for the aviation group, the statement of the USC representative should not surprise anyone either. "Admiral Kuznetsov", unlike American aircraft carriers, does not have a launch catapult. This initially imposes restrictions on both the combat load of the aircraft and the types of aircraft that can be used.

Russia has two carrier-based fighters: the Su-33 and the MiG-29K. According to data from open sources, the ship carries 14 Su-33 aircraft and 10 MiG-29K fighters. There are no alternatives to them and there will never be. The Su-33UB project has long gone into oblivion, and the creation of a carrier-based version of the Su-57 fighter in the realities of austerity looks frankly fantastic.


At the same time, the Su-33 aircraft is very outdated: both morally and physically. The last car was produced in the late 90s. From the point of view of combat characteristics, it is approximately at the level of the non-modernized Su-27, which is clearly not enough in our time.

In fact, the MiG-29K will remain the only carrier-based fighter in Russia. A fourth-generation fighter with a combat radius of 850 kilometers (without the use of PTB) and a combat load of 4500 kilograms at 9 hardpoints.

What is and what will be?


The question of what to do with the aircraft carrier "Admiral Kuznetsov" is debatable, but the answer, as it seems, lies on the surface. Ideally, it would be generally better to send the ship to rest in the foreseeable future, but this is ideal. The fact is that the TAVKR is not just the only "full-fledged" Russian aircraft carrier, but will remain so in the future. There is nothing to replace it with corny, and it is difficult for such a large country as Russia (which has its own interests in different parts of the world) to remain completely without such a class of ships, at least from a moral point of view.

If you look at the projects of Russian aircraft carriers in recent years, it becomes clear that they have not yet decided what kind of ship is needed. The giant aircraft carrier of the project 23000 "Storm", presented in 2013, replaced (added?) A more modest, similar to "Admiral Kuznetsov" ship of the project 11430E "Manatee". And after him, in 2021, Russia presented "Varan", on board which a limited air group can be based, including two dozen manned combat aircraft.


Photo: "Nevskoe Design Bureau"

For comparison: the alleged aviation group of the aforementioned "Storm" - up to 90 aircraft, including the carrier-based version of the fifth generation Su-57 fighter. Now such a project seems almost unrealistic, but even taking into account the "miniaturization" the new aircraft carrier may be too expensive for Russia.

It goes without saying that it will never be possible to modernize Kuznetsov endlessly, but in the current realities, the average modernization of a ship looks like the only more or less rational approach. He will still be able to solve some problems: even without strike weapons and with the limited capabilities of the air group.
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  1. +3
    4 July 2021 04: 23
    Looking at this ship, you have to be baptized ... always something happens to it ... so the terms were shifted to the right, and then you see, new terms will arrive again.
    1. +8
      4 July 2021 05: 24
      ..the more we baptize, the more it seems ..
      1. +6
        4 July 2021 05: 28
        The main thing is that Kuznetsov’s agonies must end sooner.
        1. +10
          4 July 2021 05: 52
          On the modernization of Kuznetsov, officials of all ranks make good money, so they will be modernizing for a long time.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. +8
            4 July 2021 06: 56
            "He will still be able to solve some problems."
            1. +51
              4 July 2021 07: 19
              The Chinese have brought the analogue of Kuzi to mind and it serves them perfectly and goes to the BS. Kuza was just unlucky with the owner.
              1. -18
                4 July 2021 22: 19
                It must be sent to the needles, because now it is a suitcase without a handle ...
                1. +1
                  5 July 2021 09: 12
                  Taking into account the increase in prices for metal, hardware and all building materials by 100-350%, I'm afraid the repair will take even longer.
            2. +4
              5 July 2021 13: 18
              Quote: Snail N9
              "He will still be able to solve some problems."

              Without strike weapons, this will be far from the most successful aircraft carrier, and by no means a cruiser, and with a frankly weak air defense, moreover, it will not even be covered by any of the surface ships (there, with air defense, everything is also bad). It turns out to be a frankly training ship for unknown purposes, if at all, it will come out of repair.
              1. 0
                6 July 2021 00: 47
                The aircraft carrier does not need strike weapons, for this there are escort ships. The AUG with Kuzya can include the upgraded cruiser Nakhimov, two or three BODs and a pair of frigates 22350, and supplement it with a pair of Ash and a pair of nuclear submarines 949AM. This AUG has very decent capabilities.
                1. +3
                  6 July 2021 14: 00
                  In theory, everything is so, but where can we find such a number of combat-ready units ...? No, of course, you can collect from all fleets, but then nothing will remain there. And the strike missile armament on the aircraft carrier is a forced measure, precisely because of the lack of units for the formation of the AUG without exposing other places. To completely remove the missiles, in the current situation, is a strange decision. From the fact that the missiles are removed, he will not become a full-fledged avik, and will lose the cruising component. But replacing it with a modern universal complex would be helpful. IMHO.
                2. 0
                  7 July 2021 23: 39
                  At the same time, she does not need Kuzya, well, if only as a bait ...
                3. +1
                  12 July 2021 05: 11
                  If you remove the strike weapons, then Kuzya will cease to be TavKr. Which can lead to a ban on passage through the Bosphorus.
          3. +8
            4 July 2021 20: 31
            And what is the strangest thing is not a single criminal case?
            1. +4
              5 July 2021 10: 03
              And it won't. They don't want to do this.
            2. 0
              16 July 2021 02: 05
              There is a criminal case at 35 shipyards and 10 shipyards.
              The Leninsky District Court of Murmansk arrested Sergei Verakso, director of the 35th shipyard branch of Zvezdochka Shipyard JSC, for two months.
              Sergei Verakso was taken into custody at the request of an FSB investigator. Earlier, local media reported that searches and detentions took place at the plant. They are connected with financing the reconstruction of the dock for the repair of the cruiser "Admiral Kuznetsov". In the spring of this year, Yevgeny Zudin, director of the 10th shipyard, was arrested in the case of fraud during the repair of Admiral Kuznetsov.
        2. +6
          4 July 2021 19: 33
          Quote: Lech from Android.
          The main thing is that Kuznetsov’s agonies must end sooner.


          I could not resist:
          But, my God, what a bore
          With a sick person, sit day and night,
          Do not step away a single step away!
          What a low cunning
          Half-dead amuse
          He needs to correct the pillows,
          It is sad to bring medicine,
          Sigh and think to yourself:
          When the hell takes you! ”

          AS
        3. -3
          10 July 2021 10: 06
          Why are you so pessimists? To nightmare Ukraine Kuzya will do quite well
      2. +15
        4 July 2021 05: 51
        Uh-huh, remembering the latest misadventures of our flagship, I just want to add fire, water and copper pipes (ugh iron in the form of a crane) in the form of our shipbuilding corporations !!!
        You can scold Kuzya for a lot. The author forgot to mention the "boilers" of the latter.
        And now about the other side of the coin. The Su-33s are old, but are they so bad that they don't think of anything other than the MiG-29k in return? The author's argument about granites is unique, in battle they did not reconcile means "cocoa"! Masterful !!! Or maybe, on the contrary, that the fragments of the Soviet fleet have these notorious granites and did not come to the point that a situation arose with their use.
        The fleet is an expensive toy, and so far, in the bottom line, we are exploiting at least half of the ideas of an already distant alliance! If for some reason we put all this under the cloth, it is sad not the fact that we will be able to repeat it! So, no matter how trivial it is from the legacy of the USSR, it is necessary to press everything to the maximum.
        And there money will appear and the Su-33 can be brought up to standard 35 and zircons instead of granites. The main thing for now is "our only" at the quay wall not to lose "pilots and other specialists." People are everything, iron is also important, but bones can be eaten and meat can grow.
        1. +17
          4 July 2021 09: 35
          Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
          And there the money will appear

          Russia still has them, Lukashenka has one and a half billion off the lord's shoulder, and no one even noticed in Russia, they say we will have to give it more, it has been supporting the Syrian Assad since the 15th year. The Crimean Bridge was built. So there is money
          1. Alf
            -5
            4 July 2021 10: 27
            Quote: saturn.mmm
            The Crimean bridge was built

            Who built the bridge? Here is the answer for whom there is money especially, if you remember how much the price of the bridge has grown during the construction period.
            1. +10
              4 July 2021 11: 01
              Quote: Alf
              Who built the bridge?

              Rothenberg, everyone else refused.
              Quote: Alf
              how much the price of the bridge has grown during the construction period.

              How much?
              1. Alf
                +1
                5 July 2021 19: 51
                Quote: saturn.mmm
                How much?

                1. 0
                  5 July 2021 21: 42
                  Vasily is a very reasoned answer, thank you.
                  1. Alf
                    0
                    5 July 2021 21: 46
                    Quote: saturn.mmm
                    Vasily is a very reasoned answer, thank you.

                    Are you kidding me?
                    1. +3
                      6 July 2021 00: 04
                      Quote: Alf
                      Are you kidding me?

                      No, I'm building a house and my price always turns out to be higher than the calculated one
                      1. Alf
                        +3
                        6 July 2021 17: 56
                        Quote: saturn.mmm
                        Quote: Alf
                        Are you kidding me?

                        No, I'm building a house and my price always turns out to be higher than the calculated one

                        Four times ?
                        Then why did the Chinese bridge, which has a part of an underwater tunnel, cost the PRC two times cheaper? Maybe because Rottenberg did not build?
                      2. +1
                        8 July 2021 13: 31
                        No, I'm building a house and my price always turns out to be higher than the calculated one

                        Are you building a house with all the necessary design and estimate documentation and a full set of necessary research? Or do you speculatively calculate the price, and then it rises? The repair itself according to the second option was done with an approximate estimate. It is clear that in this option there is a bunch of unaccounted for small and not very small jobs, because of which the price rises.
                        Comparing a bridge across the sea strait with a renovation or a house in the country is fundamentally wrong for yourself. The bridge is a serious object, and it should be built with a full set of design and estimate documentation, where all work is taken into account at the design stage. It is clear that revisions of the project are possible, but this includes expenses for unforeseen expenses in the estimate, but this is usually 5-20% of the object.
                        So do not transfer your everyday experience to government facilities.
                      3. 0
                        8 July 2021 15: 05
                        5-20% and I succeed. What is everyday, what is a state object, energy sources have risen in price, products from subcontractors have risen in price, etc. The original cost of building the bridge was estimated at 224 billion and 50 is someone's joke.
              2. +5
                5 July 2021 21: 06
                Rothenberg, everyone else refused

                What a strange thing, if Rotenberg participates in the competition, then for some reason all the participants either lose or refuse. What a talented guy this Rothenberg is!
                1. +4
                  5 July 2021 21: 43
                  Quote: ramzay21
                  What a talented guy this Rothenberg is!

                  So he has a friend Putin.
        2. +12
          4 July 2021 10: 46
          Developing your thought. If the Su - 33 has a glider everything is fine, then it is not so difficult to put new engines and electronics there. The main thing is that he has something to fly from. No aircraft carrier - why a carrier-based aircraft?
          1. +4
            4 July 2021 18: 19
            The glider of an aircraft carrier is, in principle, more loaded. Landings are tougher, they pull it with a hook. The folding wing also does not add a resource.
            There is most likely nothing to modernize. But what is left in Komsomolsk for its production? Maybe nothing.
            In any case, you need to allocate money. But they don't want to. So there are reasons.
            Although the MiG-29, this is so ... For third-rate countries. Everything is hard with us ...
        3. +12
          4 July 2021 11: 37
          Namesake, I agree and disagree. The aircraft carrier "granite" needs a "stop signal" like a hare:
          The last time "Kuzya" was with "Petya" and "Talaveram"
          He "covered" his escort, and "Petya" was a "fist". In any case, "Petya" is preferable as fists
        4. 0
          4 July 2021 16: 17
          Don't need any Graniti / Onyx / Zirconi. This is the headman of the AUG.
          1. -3
            4 July 2021 17: 05
            Quote: CastroRuiz
            Don't need any Graniti / Onyx / Zirconi. This is the headman of the AUG.

            Rather, you are not needed.
          2. 0
            8 July 2021 01: 54
            It is better to hand you over to the soap factory, there will be more benefits laughing
        5. +3
          5 July 2021 10: 14
          There is money in Russia! In Moscow, the noise of a circular saw, with which the budget is being sawed, lays down your ears! The Navy, together with other officials, would cut less money for various "new" projects, there would be as much money as needed. We do not have people and design bureaus capable of undertaking modernization. And then they know how to build barges (helicopter carriers in the sense), but they do not know how to build an aircraft carrier.
          1. +1
            8 July 2021 01: 55
            There is no death penalty, so they are sawing
    2. +1
      4 July 2021 06: 22
      -What is and what will be?
      OSK was. Is and will be. Is.
      1. +1
        4 July 2021 07: 31
        this is not a fact. not comrade rakhmanov, not responsible for his words, if he had answered, he would have resigned a long time ago ... but so ... not a friend and not a brother ... but so ...
    3. +4
      4 July 2021 08: 33
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      always something happens to him ... here

      Is this the ship's fault?
    4. -1
      9 July 2021 11: 28
      As I understand it, if you need to make a full-fledged avik from Kuzi, you need to expand the air group and the range of its weapons, there are all sorts of draw planes
  2. -13
    4 July 2021 04: 54
    Why not take the hull of some new Panamax, put in a couple of turbines, elevators, and make a cheap civilian aircraft carrier?
    Would come out cheaper than 22350.
    1. -8
      4 July 2021 05: 31
      The documentation from the Mistral should have been preserved, and if it was finalized on site with a file, it would turn out to be a lightweight AV with quite military technologies, and not much more expensive than the Panamax. We have experience in the production of feed.
      1. +5
        4 July 2021 07: 32
        meaning from an easy under-replacement of an aircraft carrier?
      2. +13
        4 July 2021 08: 43
        Will not work. Rather, it will work only for those aircraft that do not. Offer Harier 2 to buy in Spain and Italy, so Turkey is already bustling there, for their UDC Juan Carlos, who flew past the F-35.

        If you do what STOBAR, then the displacement will have to be doubled. You will have to make a corner deck with finishers that weigh a lot, which means you will have to redistribute compartments and equipment. I am already silent about the move, with 18 knots it will be 30% easier to take off (less fuel and load) and only in perfect weather. Therefore, you will have to make a new power train in order to squeeze at least 25-27 knots. Well, we came to the need to make a new project from scratch. And in order to make it according to civil standards (by the way, it is still very situational here, for example, the current fire standards exceed the Soviet requirements for warships), no initial project is needed.
      3. +8
        4 July 2021 08: 44
        Quote: Nagan
        and if you modify it in place with a file, you get a light AB

        And what will fly from it?
        Dryers will not fit. A few moments, at best ... For such ships you need a Yak-141 or F35B ...
        1. 0
          4 July 2021 09: 02
          Quote: Doccor18
          And what will fly from it?

          If the choice is between "nichrome" and MIG-29, which one will you choose? Yes, of course, against "Nimitz" such a light AV will be of nothing, but at least some air cover for the attack ships. As a strike aircraft, the MIG-29K is not very good, but as a fighter it is quite comparable to the Shershn. Especially if you pull it up to the level of the MIG-35.
      4. +1
        4 July 2021 10: 43
        Why 'feed production'. Construction of full-fledged UDC is already underway
      5. -6
        4 July 2021 10: 47
        The Mistral was built according to civil shipbuilding standards. And thank God that I did not get into the Russian Navy, let the French and others fight with them)))
      6. +4
        4 July 2021 17: 16
        the problem of light aircraft carriers, that 2 such AB will cost as one normal, and they will carry less aircraft, because the hangar will be small, it really makes sense to build either Manatee or Varan
    2. +5
      4 July 2021 08: 41
      Quote: demiurg
      and make a cheap aircraft carrier

      Recently they have already suggested building a 500-meter "self-propelled barge" instead of an aircraft carrier ...
      Quote: demiurg
      Would come out cheaper than 22350.

      So it is possible to put on the bulk carrier radar, Redoubt and Caliber cells, it will also be cheaper than a frigate and a destroyer. Only a "bulk carrier with missiles" will turn out, and not a full-fledged battleship of the ocean zone ...
  3. -23
    4 July 2021 04: 54
    It is necessary to scrap it. Definitely. Initially, the ship is stupid. Stupidly conceived, as only we knew how.
    1. +20
      4 July 2021 05: 28
      The turkeys and the Chinese are exploiting his siblings. The Chinese even copy, which means they are happy. And the fact that there was a fire, it's so fucking to go anywhere with welding without observing safety precautions.
      1. +12
        4 July 2021 08: 37
        I will repeat in China and Russia fundamentally different approaches, this is especially evident in the fleet.

        China uses a strategy of small steps. That is, series, gradual improvements, local jumps, and then a series of the result. This happened, for example, with 052 - from the first destroyer with radar inscribed in the superstructure with drums VPU to 052D and, as a consequence, a start in life for 055 in a new hull, but in fact on solutions and the backlog of evolution 052.

        In Russia, they immediately build the maximum of the possible, on the way they cancel the series in favor of even more of the maximum of the possible. The result of 10 years of construction is not a period. A batch of 1-2 ships is the norm.

        China copied the Varyag to master the competencies (moreover, in Dalian - and the new AV is being built in Shanghai), and also not to wait for the readiness of the new AVA project, but also because they can. And this in itself is a useful thing, to have 2 STOBAR aircraft carrier, to give practice to the PKB and various organizations for the maximum redesign of the ship and its support from the mortgage section to delivery. It was important to fill the bumps and bruises to the maximum in front of your entire aircraft carrier.

        Completely their own aircraft carrier is completely different, even in ideology, they abandoned the STOBAR scheme (springboard) and put 3 catapults (CATOBAR).
        1. 0
          4 July 2021 17: 17
          we need a military boat of the level of the Far Eastern Star and new engine factories ... well, raise the price of ships by +1 billion to each ..
      2. +4
        4 July 2021 18: 24
        So they did not toil the foolishness. They took all the missiles to hell.
        For some reason, they are smart enough to understand what a rocket and an airplane can deliver.
        That's why the Americans appoint only pilots as commanders of aircraft carriers ... So, they understand something ... wink To what we apparently will not reach.
      3. 0
        5 July 2021 08: 20
        Nobody copies. Develop yes. And there is no point in copying this, because under a different concept that is outdated
    2. +5
      4 July 2021 05: 54
      Quote: Krabong
      It is necessary to scrap it. Definitely. Initially, the ship is stupid. Stupidly conceived, as only we knew how.

      How much hatred, will you give a sweeping hacksaw or with a home grinder to Kuzya?
      1. +2
        4 July 2021 06: 46
        Never mind. These are Ukrainian friends from MI6
      2. +4
        4 July 2021 07: 35
        he is ready to gnaw his teeth
        1. +2
          4 July 2021 18: 25
          What for? The Varyag was simply drunk to the Chinese. The easiest. And you don't have to work. Or else to cut ... wink
      3. +1
        4 July 2021 10: 38
        Namesake, does everyone know such a tool?
      4. +2
        4 July 2021 18: 34
        There is absolutely no hatred. I would be glad if our fleet had an aircraft carrier, of course. But this ship is a suitcase without a handle!
    3. +4
      4 July 2021 07: 34
      Initially, the ship was sensible, sensibly conceived, only Viktor is stupid, because he does not know the use of TavKr.
  4. +1
    4 July 2021 05: 48
    They won't leave him alone.
    Repair, and just maintenance, generate such cash flows that they just do not refuse.
  5. +32
    4 July 2021 05: 56
    As always, there are many letters and not a word about the main thing. If we cut Kuzya now, then in five years we will not have a single pilot with experience of working with an aircraft carrier. And not only pilots. There will be no one left who would have experience working with an aircraft carrier, right down to the basing infrastructure.
    To revive carrier-based aircraft from scratch will take at least 10 years. And with our love, slowly harness, then 15-20. But for some reason, with the huge amount of "aircraft carrier snot" that is rewound to fists on this resource with amazing regularity, all the authors bypass the educational aspect of the "Kuzi" operation. Yes, not the best ship, but the maintenance is expensive, but it is already a bit old. But there is no other, and his complete absence will then rise in an even bigger penny.
    I think so..
    1. +5
      4 July 2021 09: 40
      You are absolutely right, but in fact, the author of the article just wrote about this, if we do not modernize Kuznetsov, then we completely lose the aircraft carrier direction. Well, I am calm about criticism of our only aircraft carrier - there are no ideal ships and ideal sailors in the world. The Americans also had different things - McCain almost knocked out an aircraft carrier in general (135 people and more than 20 aircraft died), and Forrestal was rebuilt in less than 2 years, and he served for several more decades ....... Therefore, now all forces of the USC should be devoted to 2 things - the repair and modernization of Kuznetsov and the serial construction of 22350,20380 (subject to the elimination of the existing shortcomings of our corvette), as well as the development of a new serial MAPL (instead of 971 projects) in addition to the expensive and slowly under construction Ash.
    2. +2
      4 July 2021 09: 43
      Quote: Al_lexx
      If we cut Kuzya now, then in five years we will not have a single pilot with experience of working with an aircraft carrier. And not only pilots. There will be no one left who would have experience working with an aircraft carrier, right down to the basing infrastructure.

      Where did the specialists come from in the first place?
      Probably it is necessary to put things in order in the repair area, it is not the aircraft carrier that is to blame but the mess and corruption.
      1. Alf
        +6
        4 July 2021 10: 31
        Quote: saturn.mmm
        Where did the specialists come from in the first place?

        A counter question, in which state did these specialists first appear? And where will they then be taken if there are no ordinary locksmiths-turners-milling cutters at the factories?
        1. +2
          4 July 2021 10: 44
          Quote: Alf
          A counter question, in which state did these specialists initially appear?

          What's the difference as the country is called, USA, China, India, USSR or Russia.
          Quote: Alf
          And where will they take them later

          They will choose from the best cadets, then to the Thread to the Crimea, and then to a new aircraft carrier, not gods burn pots.
          Quote: Alf
          if there are no ordinary locksmiths-turners-milling cutters in factories?

          Where the salary is paid there and a locksmith with turners.
          1. Alf
            -1
            4 July 2021 22: 58
            Quote: saturn.mmm
            What's the difference what the country is called,

            Apparently, for you there is no difference between the USSR and the Russian Federation.
            Quote: saturn.mmm
            They will choose from the best cadets, then to the Thread to the Crimea, and then to a new aircraft carrier, not gods burn pots.

            It meant building specialists, not users, no need to juggle.
            Quote: saturn.mmm
            Where the salary is paid there and a locksmith with turners.

            That's what ads with the words Wanted are hanging everywhere. If the pay is worthy, then there is no deficit.
            1. +1
              9 July 2021 05: 58
              Effective managers consider workers to be stupid cattle, and therefore they import gaster, who are paid a penny and who have made working specialties unprofitable, because few people want to study these specialties.
              The same dock was drowned because of the greed and stupidity of the leadership of the fleet, who saved on the payment of normal specialists, and therefore it turned out as always.
      2. +1
        4 July 2021 15: 30
        Quote: saturn.mmm
        Probably it is necessary to put things in order in the repair area, it is not the aircraft carrier that is to blame but the mess and corruption.

        Hmm .. So go and point. Then tell us about your successes.

        Corruption is an eternal topic. Like female prostitution or male pontoresis. smile
        The fight against corruption is of two types - domestic or imported. The domestic fight against corruption is a banal redistribution of property, with the passing of hanging noodles on one's own electorate. The import fight against corruption is the subversive activities of foreign special services to break up the country and take it under their own external control, with exactly the same hanging noodles for someone else's electorate.
        In what way are you going to fight? winked

        Quote: saturn.mmm
        Where did the specialists come from in the first place?

        I don’t even know what to say here? Explain such simple things as the colossal difference in the training of an "ordinary" pilot and a "deck", as well as the simple fact that the exchange and transfer of experience is an absolutely priceless thing ...
        And you, as I understand it, are proposing to teach deck ships from scratch, when there will be no one to teach them, except for their own mistakes (sometimes fatal). The first one understood you.
        I have no more questions.
        1. +1
          5 July 2021 06: 47
          Quote: Al_lexx
          Explain such simple things as the colossal difference in the training of an "ordinary" pilot and a "deck", as well as the simple fact that the exchange and transfer of experience is an absolutely priceless thing ...

          Where did Adam get the experience that he passed on to others?
          1. +1
            5 July 2021 08: 11
            Quote: saturn.mmm
            Where did Adam get the experience that he passed on to others?

            From Eve. And the Serpent passed it on. wink
            1. 0
              5 July 2021 21: 51
              Quote: Al_lexx
              And the Serpent passed it on.

              Where did the Serpent get experience? Sometimes the "Time of the First Ones" probably comes.
    3. -2
      5 July 2021 08: 22
      Syria has shown that there are no pilots with experience.
      1. +3
        5 July 2021 09: 31
        Quote: FireLake
        Syria has shown that there are no pilots with experience.

        "" In total, aircraft from the "Admiral Kuznetsov" made 420 sorties, of which 117 - at night. In addition, more than 700 sorties were made to ensure combat work. "
        Based on materials from the portal topwar.ru
        https://topwar.ru/141826-takr-kuznecov-istoriya-stroitelstva-i-sluzhby-siriyskiy-pohod.html
        1. +3
          5 July 2021 13: 21
          Airplanes and helicopters are somewhat different things. By air: 154 departures in 2 months. This is definitely a success yes ...
    4. -1
      8 July 2021 14: 29
      To revive carrier-based aircraft from scratch will take at least 10 years.

      Do we need it now? So far, the site is trying unconvincingly to prove its necessity. But if you think sensibly, then AB is an instrument for the struggle for world domination, and with our economy, which is good, if it is still in the top ten economies of the world, such a struggle is not affordable and makes no sense. We will always lag behind the plan of the fleet only because the fleet is an expensive toy, and we are poorer, and this will either persist in the coming decades, or it will forever. And the aircraft carriers that the United States and China will have more than us, because they can afford. And how are we going to compete with them?
      The example of the Imperial Japanese Navy is typical here, when, due to the higher skill of sailors and deck aviation pilots, they could butt for some time with the United States, a stronger economic and industrial rival. And this did not end with anything good for the Japanese, although they had loud victories at the beginning of their journey. And in our case, our naval skill is lower. In the form of carrier-based aircraft, as we have now, most likely, it is useless. And this trend will not change for the next 10-20 years. And by 2035 Kuznetsov will have to be written off, and there will be no new AB. And the question is why do we need an aircraft carrier and carrier-based aircraft in such a situation and our poverty? Given the fact that Russia has no goals for AUG, except for the demonstration of the flag in support of the business interests of large companies.
      And another question arises whether by the 2050s, when, in theory, we will be able to build a new aircraft carrier, carrier aviation will be as in demand as it is now. Science is not standing still, is there no point in looking for something that can be more effective than AB at a new technical level? Maybe it makes sense to direct efforts in this direction?
  6. +6
    4 July 2021 06: 03
    This warship should be modernized and repaired for a lot of money at least to retain the personnel of our carrier-based aviation, until we build another aircraft carrier "Kuznetsov" should be in service, most likely it is necessary to replace the old moments for a moment 35
  7. +1
    4 July 2021 07: 05
    The main thing is when?
  8. +2
    4 July 2021 07: 12
    It's also good that in the 23rd year. Even before our "snowfields" did not differ in accuracy, but now ..... It's easier to move the deadlines than to make the subcontractors move
  9. -15
    4 July 2021 07: 12
    the optimal solution, to repair and sell to China / India, in the Russian Federation it has no tasks, and the content is too big for a pretty penny
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. +5
      4 July 2021 07: 57
      Will not work
      China is already building for itself, it makes no sense for an old brother from the outside.
      And the Indians, after the super-expensive repair of Gorshkov, almost at the price of a new full-fledged ejection aircraft carrier, will not be very interested either - they need technology, and not far from a new Ship, they are also building their own
    3. +9
      4 July 2021 08: 24
      China has finished building an improved brother - Varyag. Then he built his 001A with a maximum focus on their systems and redevelopment of the hangar level. And now he is building Kitty Hawk and probably this CATOBAR aircraft carrier (China will become the third operator of such ships in the world after the United States and France) will be released early Kuzi wink .



      India has moved on to a slow-making program, but in India. Again, the Chinese are actively pinning the Indians, they say who is your first Vikrant or our new third aircraft carrier, since they could not compete with the second, or immediately score on the timing of the Chinese 4 aircraft carrier, then it may have time laughing .
  10. +4
    4 July 2021 07: 31
    Modernization of TAVKR "Admiral Kuznetsov": what will Russia get?

    Russia will receive what it should have received in 2021, then in 2022 and now in 2023 - moving the deadlines to the right indefinitely. I can assume that some of the users of the site will not be able to wait for the release of this problematic ship.
    As follows from the text of Vladimir Korolev's statement, Russia has decided not to reinvent the wheel and follow in the footsteps of other countries of the world.

    If we do not “reinvent the wheel” and follow in the footsteps of the countries of the world, then, from the point of view of tactics and strategy, the one who has the most of these “bicycles” will win in the confrontation. And in Russia the last one remained with a bent frame, old tires, without a chain and pedals ...
    TAVKR is slowly and surely turning into a "shameful phenomenon" of the Russian fleet. Why wait further with such an attitude? Someone got a heartache? Has anyone sharpened the problem from the high rostrum?
    ==========
    Until 2023, a lot of water will still leak, but it is not a fact that we will rejoice at the end of the work ...
    1. Alf
      +1
      4 July 2021 10: 33
      Quote: ROSS 42
      Has anyone sharpened the problem from the high rostrum?

      In Russia every year the problems from the high rostrum are sharpening, but the problems are the same.
      1. +3
        4 July 2021 11: 52
        Quote: Alf
        In Russia every year the problems from the high rostrum are sharpening, but the problems are the same.

        In Russia, every year, from a high rostrum, with a trembling voice and coughing, only neutral issues concerning everyday phenomena are sharpened and diligently avoided the same problems, the solution of which is impossible by the nature of the existing formation. That is why no one will ever be held accountable for obvious failures in economic development and unaccountable quirks arising from the irresponsibility and incompetence of those appointed to the leadership.
        1. -1
          4 July 2021 19: 44
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuwGGA8Su0E
          http://www.hrono.ru/libris/stalin/12-16.php
      2. +1
        5 July 2021 10: 20
        Landings are needed!
  11. +6
    4 July 2021 08: 11
    23 is very optimistic, given the fact that every 2-3 months they clap another top manager.

    The past were twisted in March. Now the director of the 35th shipyard has been detained, who in two years of work managed to take part in multi-million embezzlements.
    In Murmansk, the director of 24 SRZ was taken into custody until August 35
    Leninsky Court of Murmansk at the request of the senior investigator Investigation department of the FSB in the region has chosen a preventive measure in the form of detention for a period of 1 month 27 days of the director of the branch "35 SRZ" of JSC "CS" Zvezdochka ".

    - A preventive measure has been chosen in relation to Verakso S.N., holding the specified position since January 14, 2019, - specified in the press service of the court.

    He is accused of crimes under Part 4 of Art. 160 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation - embezzlement, that is, theft of someone else's property entrusted to the perpetrator, committed using his official position on an especially large scale.

    He will remain in custody until August 24, 2021 inclusive.
    1. +3
      4 July 2021 08: 17
      Mdaaaa what the warranty period of the manager or director is 1 year ... then it goes into marriage ... where are such low-quality products produced?
      1. +2
        4 July 2021 12: 02
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        Mdaaaa the warranty period of the manager or director is 1 year ... then he goes into marriage ...

        What are you? What year? Vaughn Miller, Sechin, Chubais, Serdyukov, Rogozin ... But this is only the state part. There are also the Rotenbergs, Potanins, Deripaska, Abramovichs, not to mention different ones from the Forbes list ... Former owners of PD-50 or Russian Railways reformers ... People have been putting their lives on the altar of the Fatherland for years ...

        stop Sorry, that's another story ... laughing
        1. +2
          4 July 2021 12: 09
          What to take from them ... everyone worries about the people smile.
  12. +3
    4 July 2021 08: 43
    In the spring of this year, the director of the 10th shipyard Yevgeny Zudin was arrested in the case of fraud during the repair of Admiral Kuznetsov. Sergey Verakso became the director of 35 SRZ AO TsS Zvezdochka in January of this year. He replaced Sergei Smirnov in this position, and on July 2, the Leninsky District Court of Murmansk arrested Sergei Verakso, director of the 35th shipyard branch of Zvezdochka Shipyard JSC, for two months. He is charged under Part 4 of Article 160 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation (“Misappropriation or embezzlement committed by an organized group or on an especially large scale and using his official position”)
  13. +4
    4 July 2021 09: 24
    The Su-33UB project has long gone into oblivion, and the creation of a carrier-based version of the Su-57 fighter in the realities of austerity looks frankly fantastic.
    Now such a project seems almost unrealistic, but even taking into account the "miniaturization" the new aircraft carrier may be too expensive for Russia.

    Ilya, why do you think so? Russia built the Crimean bridge and nothing happened, no one died of hunger because of this. Russia is the fourth country in the world in terms of gold and foreign exchange reserves, and there are also all kinds of funds.
    In economic terms, and in all other plans, the will of the country's leadership is enough to build an aircraft carrier in Russia.
  14. +4
    4 July 2021 09: 25
    To have new aircraft carriers, we need to solve three problems: 1) Find the money, 2) Find the money, and 3) Find the money.
    It is necessary to have aircraft carriers, I think no one argues with that. But, for this, it is necessary not only to build these aircraft carriers, which is expensive in itself, but also to build dozens of specialized production facilities that are needed exclusively for the construction of aircraft carriers, and which are very difficult to repurpose. The Americans are building aircraft carriers on a permanent basis, but should we build factories, train personnel, and after a couple of years cover all this? And if not, where to get money for at least 5-6 aircraft carriers and everything else? And the rest is a lot, as if not more than the construction of the aircraft carriers themselves. They need carrier-based aircraft, special ships for inclusion in the AUG, which we do not have. These are destroyers with a displacement of 10+ thousand tons, with a full speed of 30+ knots, which they are able to maintain for days, with an autonomy of months, and an economical cruising range of 6-8 thousand miles. Then a fleet of supply ships and transports capable of refueling and transferring cargo to AUG ships in the ocean. In addition, training bases like "Nitka" are needed, since the weather conditions in the Northern Fleet and partially in the Pacific Fleet do not allow the use of carrier-based aircraft for most of the year. We also need a base with all the coastal infrastructure, docks, arsenals, and even banal housing for thousands of sailors and sea pilots, their families and coastal personnel, the same social and cultural life, and this is all the same notorious money, money and money.
    1. +2
      4 July 2021 12: 14
      Quote: Max PV
      And if not, where to get money for at least 5-6 aircraft carriers and everything else?

      By the way, when in 2018 someone ascended (finally !!! fellow ) to the Russian throne and signed a law on pension reform and an increase in VAT, from the country "taken away" $ 60, and last year - 47 800 000 000 $... Only these funds would be more than enough for EIGHT !!! aircraft carriers ...
      Gerald R. Ford construction is estimated at 12,9 billion dollars. The ship with a displacement of about 100 thousand tons will be serviced by a crew of about 2500 people. The deck will be able to accommodate more than 75 aircraft and helicopters. In total, the United States plans to build 10 such aircraft carriers to replace the Nimitz-class ships.
    2. 0
      4 July 2021 14: 38
      and also build dozens of specialized industries that are needed exclusively for the construction of aircraft carriers, and which are very difficult


      And sho it is so terrible there it is necessary with unique technologies that then well, vaaasche not to repurpose in any way? Yes, and AUGs need 6 pieces, plus their repair.

      They need deck planes


      Which may well be built by our aviation industry in parallel with the usual. Moreover, the deck-boat is, in principle, not so different from a conventional fighter. Differences usually lie in the area of ​​a reinforced airframe, folding wings, a reinforced landing gear and more corrosion-resistant coatings.

      special ships for inclusion in the composition


      Why are these ships so specialized and why we don't need them without AUG?
      Let me remind you that now in the American AUGs escort ships, these are arsenals ships that I loaded, and so will spit.
    3. ANB
      +2
      4 July 2021 23: 31
      ... To have new aircraft carriers, we need to solve three problems: 1) Find the money, 2) Find the money, and 3) Find the money.

      No, after all, money is only point 1.
      2. Find people who will use this money to build, and it is reasonable, and not to steal or out of stupidity to let someone steal. 3. Let these people work in peace.
  15. -5
    4 July 2021 09: 39
    Why the heck goat button accordion, and Russian aircraft carrier? A waste of money when there are no real tasks.
  16. The comment was deleted.
  17. -7
    4 July 2021 10: 41
    For a radical solution to the problem, both the modernization of the "poor bearer" and the saturation of the Navy, the solution is obvious and lies on the surface. It's strange that no one has figured it out yet.
    It is necessary, simply, to throw off sms. The sailors need a cruiser, they launched an advertisement on TV and that's it.
    Aircraft carrier, we connect more classmates and VKontakte.

    The problem is different, in the event of a war, according to an ancient beautiful custom, the Russian fleet will either flood itself, writing off the sailors to the infantry. Or surrender.
  18. +2
    4 July 2021 11: 46
    You can call the project whatever you like: "storm", "monitor lizard" or "snail" the main thing is to have a full-fledged aircraft carrier. For this you need to have catapults and NEW AIRCRAFT
  19. +6
    4 July 2021 12: 55
    Let's go down to earth .. no need to soar in the clouds!
    TAVKR "Kuznetsov" can be repaired ONLY IN THE DOCwhich does not exist yet ...
    You cannot replace ship structures until the ship is on the slip pads ..
    When the ship is afloat, the forces on the hull act differently. And before being docked, the ship is freed from loads .. (fuel, ammunition, water, etc.) This is a resistance material.
    If you start cutting ship structures damaged by fire, additional deformations of the hull will occur. Is it clear now?
    Well, as far as I remember, the screws from the TAVKR were removed - and without a dock they cannot be installed !!!
    You can, of course, carry out minor work, but no one will even undertake new cable routes ..
    So shta, there will be a dock, there will be repairs and modernization.. There is no other way.
    1. +1
      4 July 2021 16: 48
      You write in truth.
    2. +1
      4 July 2021 18: 34
      As I hear about any modernization, I immediately start thinking about replacing the tracks. And somehow it becomes so depressing ... It is immediately clear that it is cheaper to build a new one. If you can, of course.
  20. +3
    4 July 2021 13: 00
    What's so strange about the TAVKR concept? There is such a convention of Montreux, the author, as I understand it, has not heard of it? By the way, the first TAVKR in history was built by the Americans - a "Saratoga" type AV, a typical TAVKR with the strike weapons of the then TKR on board (4x2 203mm guns).
    1. +2
      4 July 2021 18: 38
      When they did Sarah, no one imagined anything yet. But after the first aircraft carriers, only anti-aircraft guns were left on the second.
      So this is our homebrew concept. And our "cruisers" are more an illustration of confusion in their heads, and not the concept of Montreux.
  21. -1
    4 July 2021 13: 03
    but they cannot carry fighter-bombers on board purely physically (I must say, the TAVKR concept itself was initially at least strange). [...] "Admiral Kuznetsov", unlike American aircraft carriers, does not have a launch catapult. This initially imposes restrictions on both the combat load of the aircraft and the types of aircraft that can be used.


    Perhaps in the situation the Kuznetsovs would use my imagination to use mooring UAV tugs, which would help to carry out takeoff / landing of heavy aircraft on "medium aircraft carriers" and even without a launch catapult? (Suggested in the comments to topics about aircraft carriers: https://vpk-news.ru/articles/49658, grumbler June 19, 2019; https://topwar.ru/170925-nepolnocennye-avianoscy-i-ih-cena-dlja- obschestva.html, grumbler 10 May 2020 17:44, grumbler 11 May 2020 10:18)

    To reduce the take-off weight of an aircraft, it is possible to use UAVs to individually lift (or lower) suspended containers with weapons, equipment and fuel tanks. And already in the air, dock the containers to the plane with the locks. Moreover, it can make it possible to retrofit and refuel aircraft directly in the air, without landing. This can drastically lighten deck-based aircraft and make it easier and safer to enter / land. UAV tugs can also be used on land - for takeoff / landing on small landing sites.

    Yes, it is difficult to create such systems, but at the current level of technology it is quite possible. imho, the complexity is not so much "airplane" (the UAV tug is an "autonomous nacelle" with a pair of 3D repeated
    pushing-pulling propellers), how many are in the automatic control system "Vehicle-carrier - UAV-tug - Towed aircraft", but this direction today is developing in huge leaps
    (neuroprocessors, adaptive algorithms, machine learning, etc.).
    The advantage is that the trip can be run in on the Kuznetsov, and then taken into account when designing new aircraft carriers. Perhaps this will reduce their size and generally change their appearance and the aircraft themselves? (for example, such an "interface layer" will eliminate the need to carry excess energy on deck aircraft for short / vertical takeoff and landing).
    Possible civilian applications are also wide - point delivery of goods, evacuation and rescue, etc.
  22. +4
    4 July 2021 13: 07
    I strongly disagree on the Su-33. I am well aware of the capabilities and structure of this aircraft. They are taller than the non-upgraded Su-27 to some extent. And the plane could still be produced. With the updated airborne radar and weapons, there would be no price at all.
    The fact that there are no other carrier-based fighters and will not agree. The Su-57 is not even about money, but about weight / size, takeoff / landing speed. It is large and heavy for such an aircraft carrier.
  23. +1
    4 July 2021 14: 00
    The whole question is to what extent these weapons are weapons. When day X happens - how can such an aircraft carrier be useful, taking into account its limited flight wing, limited maneuverability and speed, and so on, etc. It turns out just some kind of "white elephant of the Rajah". If there were several ships of the project (even unsuccessful ones), yes, it would make sense to preserve and modernize, because at least the enemy would spray forces on it and there would be a threat that we could concentrate these ships for certain tasks. But no, we have only one ship - and, to put it mildly, it is not ice, and the planes for it are no longer ice, but they will have to compete with a numerically superior enemy ..
    On a good note, "Kuznetsov" should be scrapped and laid down for aircraft carrier 2 to replace it. But all the previous articles on this topic gave the impression that it would be very cool attempts and pulling an owl on the globe. So in these conditions, the preservation of Kuznetsov is an example of a "bad compromise" for more image reasons than defense ones.
  24. 0
    4 July 2021 15: 00
    "what will he get"? - only cartoons!
  25. -3
    4 July 2021 15: 07
    The repair of Admiral Kuznetsov must be finished. Otherwise, it will be an endless waste of money with an incomprehensible ending. Conserve the power plant as it is and do not touch it, do not repair it. If the screws are removed, plug the stern tubes. And all the ship's life support systems should be repaired - auxiliary diesel generators, hot water boilers, sanitary systems, etc. Repair everything related to the air group. To repair the cabins and crew quarters. Paint. Then tow the non-self-propelled aircraft carrier north to Kamchatka using an icebreaker. Bring it into Avachinskaya lip and put it on barrels. There he will guard the base of the boats, provide their exit to the area. Patrol the Sea of ​​Okhotsk. The families of the officers will live in Petropavlovsk. To dock the hull, it can be towed to Vladivostok, to the Zvezda plant. There is now a dry dock with dimensions of 485 x 114 meters at the exit. The ship will serve as a school for deck pilots for more than a decade. In the meantime, it is necessary to lay a new, modern, full-fledged aircraft carrier. And don't say that there is no money. They are. Opportunities and competencies too.
    1. Alf
      +2
      4 July 2021 23: 05
      Quote: Vladshat
      There he will guard the base of the boats, provide their exit to the area.

      How to protect? By your appearance?
      You probably are not aware that when aircraft take off, the aircraft carrier accelerates to full speed?
      Quote: Vladshat
      The ship will serve as a school for deck pilots for more than a decade.

      Standing still?
      When you passed your license, what did you study on? On a stationary car?
      1. 0
        5 July 2021 06: 14
        And how do pilots train at the "Thread" complex? Is it also accelerated to full speed? Explain, I do not know.
      2. -1
        5 July 2021 21: 58
        Quote: Alf
        You probably are not aware that when aircraft take off, the aircraft carrier accelerates to full speed?

        Can you tell us more about this?
    2. ANB
      +2
      4 July 2021 23: 37
      ... Bring it into Avachinskaya lip and put it on barrels

      Do not stand on barrels in the lip. It is necessary to drive into the bay.
      Well, I don’t know, usually AB goes against the wind for aircraft to take off. Will he be able to work on the spot?
      1. 0
        5 July 2021 06: 20
        The bay was meant, without specification. With an aircraft carrier on the move, this is all clear. But somehow the pilots take off from the coastal complex "Nitka"
        1. ANB
          +1
          5 July 2021 11: 48
          ... The bay was meant, without specification

          No, let's make some clarifications. Which one? In the Seldevoy Factory, in Krasheninnikov, boats are standing, Seroglazka is busy with civilians. And the hills are there almost everywhere around.
          1. 0
            5 July 2021 12: 36
            Let us still not specify where what to be. Where it is more expedient, they will put it there. There is a place, at least in the middle of the lip and the hills do not interfere there, entry from the direction of Yelizovo. We are sharing the skin of an unkilled bear. I proposed for consideration such an option for the future of this ship. In the status of a combat training. Repair is less labor intensive and more economical. He's real. And changing on a large ship, such as an aircraft carrier, a GEM is very difficult, time consuming and requires a lot of money. And the ship is already old. And it is not at all a fact that the repair will be completed. Again something will happen or the worldview will change or someone will get up on the wrong foot. There is no certainty lately. I would be glad to be wrong and would like us to have an aircraft carrier. But let's see. It's not up to you and me to decide.
            1. ANB
              0
              5 July 2021 13: 05
              ... Where it will be more expedient, there they will put

              They won't be dragged to Kamchatka. A bunch of reasons will be found and not dragged. There, first of all, it is necessary to restore what was destroyed in the 90s.
  26. -1
    4 July 2021 15: 10
    If you make a floating casino hotel out of it, then you can beat off the grandmother)))
  27. 0
    4 July 2021 15: 21
    Removing the Granites frees up a decent amount of space to increase the hangar and deck krill.
    But if it makes sense, the question is.
  28. 0
    4 July 2021 17: 55
    "Only the one who does nothing is not mistaken!
    But he always loses strategically. "
    That's what my commander told me Yes
  29. +1
    4 July 2021 19: 33
    The repair will be completed only after the dock is ready.
  30. 0
    5 July 2021 00: 24
    The Chinese need to sell it. They will buy, they now need it more than we do. And with the money raised to build two frigates or three corvettes. The ship is a loser and it is better to part with it profitably.
  31. -1
    5 July 2021 00: 25
    But what if an experienced super-railgun was installed on Kuznetsov? You don't even need to change anything ... You can raise the dough to the sea!
  32. +5
    5 July 2021 00: 36
    > Now such a project seems almost unrealistic, but even taking into account the "miniaturization" of the new aircraft carrier may be too expensive for Russia.

    Well, how much can you? It has already been discussed more than once that AUG based on an aircraft carrier, several 22350 or 22350M and support vessels more than fits into the budget of the fleet.

    Another question is that AUG is a superstructure over the fleet system, giving it a new quality. The problem is that for this, the actual fleet must be a system. Today, instead, the fleet looks like just a set of individual ships, sometimes ordered "a little serially" - in fact, in series of no more than 3-5 identical units.

    Therefore, before building aircraft carriers, you first need to solve "problems in your head": determine the tasks of the fleet, prioritize them; to replace a system that designs "unparalleled" with a system that consistently, evolutionarily and serially builds ships. And after that already think - do you need an aircraft carrier? And which?

    Otherwise, the aircraft carrier will be built, but we will not receive any AUG, nor will we receive the goals - except for the payment of salaries and dividends to people from the military-industrial complex - we will not receive.
  33. -1
    5 July 2021 07: 22
    Write to junk and do not waste money. This is the simplest and best solution. Since no one will buy it, and it is an unbearable burden for the Russian fleet.
  34. 0
    5 July 2021 13: 04
    hole in the budget
  35. +3
    5 July 2021 14: 51
    It is strange to hear this news from a country whose oligarchs regularly build the most expensive and largest yachts in the world abroad !!! The epic with the repair of Kuznetsov is simply amazing --- under Stalin, a bunch of bosses would have been shot, and under Putin, it turns out to steal from the budget is not at all considered a crime --- not a single case has been opened !!! And okay, if the country were really poor --- but Russia is one of the richest countries in the world in terms of natural resources and therefore not having an advanced navy is just a shame for the country --- especially as Peter said --1 - - Russia has two permanent allies - the army and the navy !!! It's a pity only after Peter who took care and built the Russian fleet --- more Russia with rulers who love the fleet was clearly out of luck !!!
  36. +2
    5 July 2021 17: 29
    The very fact of the presence in the Russian fleet of an aircraft carrier, albeit not an analogue of the Yankovs, is already good. Experience in operating the ship, personnel of the air group, MA aircraft, etc. And in ten years it will be clearer. Do you need and what aircraft carriers in the Russian Navy? Moreover, 2 UDCs will be in service in a few years. Also with air groups.
  37. +2
    5 July 2021 18: 36
    At such moments, you think that Stalin would be returned for a year or two. I am sure that Kuznetsov would have been done quickly, efficiently and cheaply!
  38. 0
    6 July 2021 07: 48
    What prevents from replacing the MiG-29 with the MiG-35? I have experience.
  39. 0
    6 July 2021 07: 51
    Maybe you shouldn't endlessly push and fantasize? Without an economy, education, personnel, our country is not able to create anything. It is necessary to direct efforts to growing carrots and potatoes so as not to import them from abroad. Maybe we will succeed in this.
    1. +1
      6 July 2021 13: 18
      There is an option - to drive those to the stadium, thanks to which we do not have an economy, education and personnel, and end this agony
  40. +2
    6 July 2021 13: 07
    Not avionics, but a shipborne radio-technical navigation and landing complex, unique in its kind. It would not hurt to take a closer look at the UAV developers, who are now planting rogue-like using GPS, to the landing locators.
  41. +3
    6 July 2021 16: 29
    My unenlightened opinion.
    Russian aircraft carriers are certainly needed at least to push the loyal enemy AUG away from the shores of Russia to such a distance where his hopes of intercepting Russian ICBMs on takeoff would crumble to smithereens. And pushing them a decent distance without AB is unlikely to work. Well, without cover for the deployment of strategic submarines by AV aviation, the exit of these boats into the open ocean will be very difficult.
    As for the specifically discussed aircraft carrier, its time, alas, has gone, if only because most of the units, mechanisms, electronic components, etc. have not been produced for a long time, and their replacement with something equivalent and modern will result (and is already pouring out) at such a pretty penny that on it you can build something really valuable and combat-ready.
    The use of Kuznetsov for training flight personnel is also a thing in itself. It is easier to develop a simulator that fully simulates the conditions faced by deck aviation pilots. After all, when (and if) new aircraft appear in Russia, the conditions for takeoff, landing and combat operation of carrier-based aircraft on them may be very different from those on the Kuznetsov. Catapults may appear instead of a springboard. It is possible that instead of catapults, dropped and, possibly, recoverable boosters will be used.
    Airborne AWACS and U and drones with which you will also need to learn how to interact may appear.
    And the carrier-based aircraft itself, including AWACS and U aircraft, by that time should have become completely different.
    By the way, in a number of countries there are already a number of models of fairly compact AWACS and U aircraft without bulky "saucers", which, in principle, can be launched from the AB deck and without catapults. If there is a lack of such aircraft in Russia, who prevents them from buying them together with spare parts and accessories from someone who has them, for example, through intermediaries if there are fears that they will not be sold directly to Russia due to sanctions.
    I.V. Stalin. for example, he did not hesitate to buy modern weapons at that time from his potential opponents and did not bother much with the fact that it was not made in the USSR.
  42. +1
    7 July 2021 09: 18
    Any aircraft carrier is better than none at all. There were problems with the system for launching and receiving aircraft, it is being modernized. The problem was with the boilers, they will be replaced. So this is already good. They will add a carapace, already good. Kuznetsov still walks the seas.
  43. Eug
    0
    7 July 2021 21: 36
    As for me, first you need to decide on the tasks, from them - to the composition of the air group, then - to the "content" of modernization. Something like this...
  44. 0
    9 July 2021 09: 46
    The installation of "Granites" on an aircraft carrier is not some kind of our way of developing aircraft carriers, but a necessary measure. The ship was built in Nikolaev, and the passage of aircraft carriers through the Bosphorus is prohibited. With missiles, this is not an aircraft carrier, but an aircraft-carrying cruiser, about which there is not a word in the Montreux convention. Any modernization of "Kuznetsov" without including an AWACS aircraft in the air wing does not make sense. It is better to remove "Calibers", to add AWACS to the wing
  45. -1
    9 July 2021 11: 27
    "may be too expensive for Russia." Yes, in our country a year more funds are plundered and top managers manage with the State Duma than "Storm" will cost.
  46. +2
    9 July 2021 21: 55
    What tasks can he solve? To drive the pirates on the Ka-52? Taliban bombing with MiG-29k with refueling? In Syria, smoke the coast and bomb the next pick-ups, there probably is not enough aviation? It is an expensive pleasure to use it against Papuans and terrorists. And against the United States and NATO, he himself is a target, which even makes no sense to defend, they will still sink. The aircraft carrier group should be full-fledged, with cruisers and escort destroyers, under water with submarines. And not with tugs and corvettes. And have udon aircraft on board, with at least three shock waves along the coast.
  47. 0
    9 July 2021 22: 40
    How many YEARS have it already been modernized ??? And how many aircraft carriers have the Chinese built 2-3 ??? For a long time it was necessary to write it off and build 2 new ones. How many doughs have already taken for the Cut ??? Cruiser accidentally caught fire ??? Oh well. You don’t make the mice laugh.
  48. 0
    13 July 2021 18: 35
    A beautiful and graceful cruiser! He will put everyone in their place with one look! So all the repair work needs to be completed as soon as possible ..!
  49. 0
    4 March 2023 19: 44
    Modernized and the launch catapult is still missing, so only certain fighters can take off. Western models have a steam launch catapult and can take off many types of aircraft, which is important when calculating the bomb load. If you do not calculate and load a lot, then the plane will not have time to pick up takeoff speed.
    1. 0
      April 3 2023 22: 02
      The Su-33 is not inferior to the American F-18 carrier-based aircraft. With which the United States equips most aircraft carriers. A catapult eats a lot of space and energy. So if they didn’t put it, then it’s not necessary. Moreover, everything has already been thought out for use without a catapult. For example, the use of several Su-33s with special interchangeable modules instead of heavy AWACS aircraft.
  50. 0
    April 3 2023 21: 59
    I am writing on 03.04.2022/XNUMX/XNUMX. The ship successfully left the stocks, and continues to be completed afloat. Taking into account the SVO, and huge positive changes in the army, with the allocation of a huge amount of additional funds. There is a high probability that Russia will have another much-needed ship. There has already been talk about a possible power plant.

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