NI: Strategically, Ukraine is a "trap" for the United States

When the coup d'état just took place in Ukraine, in the eyes of Western countries, he was surrounded by an aura of struggle for the ideals of democracy and other tinsel. But now, after seven years, the Kiev government has discredited itself even in front of those who initially supported it.

This is stated by Ted Galen Carpenter, senior fellow at the Cato Institute, in an article published by the American journal National Interest (NI).

Despite the clear inconsistency with democratic principles, Ukraine continues to enjoy the support of some representatives of the Western world. In particular, Carpenter calls the “headquarters of the pro-Ukrainian lobby” in America the Atlantic Council, which stubbornly fights any criticism of the Kiev regime.

This was felt by the author, who was criticized by his opponents for an article that, in turn, criticized the Zelenskiy administration, which he published in May. They stubbornly deny that Kiev, despite Poroshenko's departure from great power, is successfully moving towards being called an authoritarian regime. And the "successes" of Ukraine in corruption, suppression of freedom of speech have been repeatedly mentioned by the OSCE, "Amnesty International" and other authoritative organizations.

It is also impossible not to note the noticeable influence of a number of nationalist and even neo-fascist organizations on the country's leadership.

Not only can the modern Ukrainian leadership be called a "bad company" for America, but Ukraine is also a dangerous ally for the United States, capable of dragging it into big trouble.

Strategically, Ukraine is a "trap" for the United States; there is a great risk of America being dragged into an unnecessary war. Ukraine is able to play stories America is the same role that Serbia played in the history of Tsarist Russia in 1914.

- says Carpenter.

Apparently, it is about such allies that they say that with such friends and enemies are not needed.

Recall that in the meantime, the US military is conducting Sea Breeze-2021 exercises together with Ukrainian colleagues. At the same time, the American military command hardly shares the opinion of the observer that Ukraine is a "trap" for America.

Comments

[APASUS]

Americans believe in Ukraine, as they once believed in al-Qaeda. But then everything did not go according to plan. Although of course Ukrainian politicians are more predictable and their interest only extends to the theft of finances, history is full of moments with the venality of leaders who were used

[Real Pilot]

But now, after seven years, the Kiev government has discredited itself even in front of those who initially supported it.

And they all left politics or are leaving. Some are no longer alive, for natural reasons ...

Neither Obama nor Hollande is in power. Cameron, Tusk, Barroso, Westerwelle, Mogherini are gone ...
Merkel will change soon, and Biden is sick of Ukraine because of corruption scandals.
There was only Nuland, who was frostbitten all over her head, but she doesn’t carry any new cookies yet.

Naturally, Ukraine is still valuable as an anti-Russian asset, but not a single Western statesman bears personal reputational costs for its support and policy ...

[Vladimir Mashkov]

NI: Strategically, Ukraine is a "trap" for the United States

Everything is correctly written by Carpenter: it's time to return Ukraine to Russia. Played - and that's enough!

[Vol4ara]

Ukraine is an invaluable springboard for NATO and the United States, and stupid balabolians are sitting in the NI. So far, everything is stable, but in the abstract tomorrow Putin will have a stroke, the entire vertical power structure is going to hell, in the country grabber, on the wave of intergovernmental chaos, begin to tear money out of everything that is possible and impossible, and higher up, the struggle for power begins. Against the background of all this, Mr. Ukraine and Georgia instantly flies into NATO / places missiles without entering NATO, come up with any story yourself. This is the problem of all authoritarian states, as soon as authority leaves, the PC begins and the neighbors will definitely take advantage of this

[yuliatreb]

Alexander you outlined the forecast of an optimist, I would not like to hear the forecast of realists and pessimists.

[Rageee]

NI is working hard on Russian grants)))

[APASUS]

Quote: Vol4ara

Ukraine is an invaluable springboard for NATO and the United States

A foothold you can't lean on.

Quote: Vol4ara

stupid balabols are sitting in NI

This is the same media as everyone else.

Quote: Vol4ara

As long as everything is stable

Is Ukraine stable? What, if not a secret?

Quote: Vol4ara

but abstractly tomorrow Putin will have a stroke, the entire structure of power is going to hell

I doubt it. Putin has built a system and it will be in power, but who is there specifically .............

Quote: Vol4ara

Against the background of all this, Mr. Ukraine and Georgia immediately flies into NATO /

Only if NATO needs a war. No one has canceled the accession amendment. Countries with territorial problems cannot be NATO members. Or they will have to give up the territory.

Quote: Vol4ara

places missiles without entering NATO, come up with any story yourself.

You can think of something, but to what extent it is all real. Inventions is not the best argument.

[syndicalist]

Quote: APASUS

Nobody canceled the accession amendment. Countries with territorial problems cannot be members of NATO, or they will have to give up the territory.

This is one of the myths of propaganda. None of the official NATO documents contain such a prohibition.

[APASUS]

Quote: syndicalist

Quote: APASUS

Nobody canceled the accession amendment. Countries with territorial problems cannot be members of NATO, or they will have to give up the territory.

This is one of the myths of propaganda. None of the official NATO documents contain such a prohibition.

Lived far from school?
Or just look too lazy

Other conditions were also put forward, including that, before becoming NATO members, candidate countries must settle
interethnic or external territorial disputes by peaceful means and to treat their minorities in accordance with the principles of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe

NATO Handbook https://www.nato.int/docu/handbook/2006/hb-rus-2006.pdf

[Lara Croft]

Quote: APASUS

Lived far from school?
Or just look too lazy

Other conditions were also put forward, including that, before becoming NATO members, candidate countries must settle
interethnic or external territorial disputes by peaceful means and to treat their minorities in accordance with the principles of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe

NATO Handbook https://www.nato.int/docu/handbook/2006/hb-rus-2006.pdf

Since when has a handbook become a NATO charter?
If you give a link to the corresponding article in the NATO Charter, then I will put a "+", and so you are a balabol, and even boorish ...

[APASUS]

Quote: Lara Croft

Since when has a handbook become a NATO charter?

Since when are the main NATO documents (this is what we are talking about)

((((((syndicalist (Dimon) June 29, 2021 17:58
This is one of the myths of propaganda. None of the official NATO documents contain such a prohibition.
turn)))))

suddenly turn into a NATO Charter ???

Quote: Lara Croft

If you give a link to the corresponding article in the NATO Charter, then I will put a "+", and so you are balabol, and even rude ...

Form the questions correctly with your friend for a couple, you are our dear !!

[Lara Croft]

Quote: APASUS

Since when are the main NATO documents (this is what we are talking about)

Any international non-profit "almshouse" has a founding agreement and a charter ...
I gave a link to both documents (see the CSTO website) ...

suddenly turn into a NATO Charter ???

Yes, you must understand that neither the NATO Charter nor the CSTO Charter prohibits the admission of a new member due to the presence of foreign states on its territory or unresolved territorial disputes with third countries (most often, the townsfolk will grumble about this, not having read the NATO Charter / CSTO) ....
It's just that the question of accepting a new member to these organizations is decided unanimously, and the above reasons can most often be the basis that someone will vote against ..., for example, Greece blocked Macedonia from joining NATO because of its name ...
As for the aggression against a CSTO member by third countries, in the CSTO treaty (I wrote about the Charter), there are words that the parties will solve this problem together, but how to solve this problem is not written (as in the NATO charter documents) and this is understandable , each NATO / CSTO member country decides at the government level how it will contribute to the assistance of one of the NATO / CSTO member ....
Therefore, first, in the event of aggression, the NATO / CSTO countries at an emergency session decide to help their member, and after the governments of the participating countries have developed measures, they make decisions on what forces and means they will stop the aggression ...
The only dispute is that the CSTO / NATO does not decide the question of what forces they will operate, but only sums up the decisions of the governments of their participating countries ...
So that all this does not drag on, already in peacetime, the NATO / CSTO commander is assigned "on duty" forces to repel aggression of weak intensity ....
For example, in the Central Asian direction, one of such "fire brigades" from the Russian Federation is the 31st Air Assault Brigade. (Ulyanovsk), however, for a full-scale reflection of the aggression of, for example, the Taliban in the Republic of Tatarstan, more significant forces will be allocated from the Russian Federation and other CSTO countries, which ones are decided by the governments of these countries and this will not necessarily be dedicated troops ...
Help can be expressed in money, fuels and lubricants, etc.

dear you are ours !!

Thank you! But I'm more likely just kind, but sometimes distrustful forum user ...

[Vol4ara]

Quote: APASUS

Is Ukraine stable? What, if not a secret?

What is Ukraine? I'm talking about the RF.

Quote: APASUS

I doubt it. Putin has built a system and it will be in power, but who is there specifically .............

Putin has built a system with himself at the head and all the threads lead to him. This system will fall apart when he leaves.
The states have a stable system, absolutely do not care who is in charge, even though Navalny is Rygorych, the state vector will not change one iota

[Thompson]

Is it stable for the states? Did the last elections surprise you with anything?
And when did we have it differently?
We have a different story and a different experience.
Hence such a system.
Can you advise the Middle East as well as the West?
And why do you think we should certainly be equal to them?

[Vol4ara]

Quote: Thompson

Is it stable for the states? Did the last elections surprise you with anything?
And when did we have it differently?
We have a different story and a different experience.
Hence such a system.
Can you advise the Middle East as well as the West?
And why do you think we should certainly be equal to them?

Yes, stable?
What does the election have to do with it? where is the relationship with stability, or maybe the states have already collapsed due to elections?
No, I will not advise anyone
And why do you think I should drink chicory instead of coffee?

[Sergej1972]

Even after Yeltsin left the presidency, there was no intergovernmental chaos. No matter how you treat it, the Russian form of government has fully proved its viability.

[Vol4ara]

Quote: Sergej1972

Even after Yeltsin left the presidency, there was no intergovernmental chaos. No matter how you treat it, the Russian form of government has fully proved its viability.

Yeltsin himself was chaos, sheer shame, always a drunk leader who could not get off the plane in Ireland. who could afford to urinate on the plane in front of journalists, but what to say about this bastard, ugh and grind, I don't even want to remember.
The Russian form of government will show its viability after the departure of Putin. Until she showed nothing

[Adimius38]

Exactly Ukraine is a powerful springboard for NATO in terms of military confrontation with Russia. The entire South of Russia is in the palm of your hand and is actually clamped in pincers by Ukraine and Georgia. Why is there SOUTH IF the performance characteristics of attack missiles are more than enough to beat from the direction of Ukraine in Moscow. The complete failure and drain of Ukraine has led to a serious defeat on the geopolitical map for Russia.

[suhorukofal]

But what a bridgehead, you might think the United States will concentrate its troops there. Rather, a convenient and manageable cannon fodder, which itself will go to war for its master with the words "America is with us."

[Vol4ara]

Quote: suhorukofal

But what a bridgehead, you might think the United States will concentrate its troops there. Rather, a convenient and manageable cannon fodder, which itself will go to war for its master with the words "America is with us."

God forbid your troops, for this there are Poles and Balts, and what about without Ukrainians. And the states will supply weapons on credit, if there is a limited conflict. And if there is a large non-nuclear conflict, then the invasion of the territory of the Russian Federation will be through the territory of Ukraine. Any conflict, at least in the beginning, will be non-nuclear

[Revolver]

Quote: Vol4ara

And if there is a large non-nuclear conflict, then the invasion of the territory of the Russian Federation will be through the territory of Ukraine.

Yeah. So it begs to draw arrows on the map from Kharkov to Volgograd and the Caucasus. Although this has already happened once, only the city was called Stalingrad. The result is known.

[Vol4ara]

Quote: Nagan

Quote: Vol4ara

And if there is a large non-nuclear conflict, then the invasion of the territory of the Russian Federation will be through the territory of Ukraine.

Yeah. So it begs to draw arrows on the map from Kharkov to Volgograd and the Caucasus. Although this has already happened once, only the city was called Stalingrad. The result is known.

Last time we fought against Germany, Italy, Hungary, Finland, Romania, Bulgaria, Germany was the only significant force. Now the entire European Union and the United States + Japan with its islands are in opponents, this time exactly will not sit exactly. Say thank you to Kurchatov and Korolev for the fact that you calmly drink coffee in the morning

[stankow]

What are you talking about when the USSR "fought against Bulgaria"? At least one shot? Can you name at least one battle? :)

[Vol4ara]

Quote: stankow

What are you talking about when the USSR "fought against Bulgaria"? At least one shot? Can you name at least one battle? :)

The USSR fought with Bulgaria, for example, on September 5 44. The MB shot was, there were no active combat

[Thompson]

The cost of this result is also known.
May be better prevented at a lower cost

[Adimius38]

Why not? who will stop them from doing this? but now there is no such task, but now they can do it to prepare the infrastructure for the American troops. For example, airfields, naval bases, and they are now busy with this. To locate the technical units of reconnaissance, etc. All this they are doing now.

[Capt cook]

There will be no stroke, there are about a dozen and a half doubles. Someone can do it.

[Vol4ara]

Quote: Capt Cook

There will be no stroke, there are about a dozen and a half doubles. Someone can do it.

Data?

[tihonmarine]

Quote: APASUS

Americans believe in Ukraine, as they once believed in al-Qaeda.

Americans "trust" everyone who, at this stage, will carry out the will and instructions of the United States, and this faith is not in "faith itself," but in the dog's devotion of the slave. But like any non-purebred dog (yard terrier) can always betray the owner, for an extra bone, or the owner will no longer need it, for his lack of goodness. This is why the states praise their dog.
but only "for now." And when they see that it is out of order, then a kick under the tuhas.

[xorek]

Quote: tihonmarine

And when they see that it is out of order, then a kick under the tuhas.

They will betray, like many others .. Now they fled from Afgan, and there the massacre began ..
And with Ukraine it will be even worse!

[NIKN]

Having sold itself once, and in Ukraine it is a national fun, it will be sold more than once, there is nothing to discuss, although this is precisely the credo by which America is friends.

[aszzz888]

APASUS (Pavo)
Today, 14: 05
NEW
+6
Americans believe in Ukraine, as they once believed in al-Qaeda. But then everything did not go according to plan.

Quite right. With a used condom, I guess you know what they are doing.

[mitroha]

Quote: APASUS

plan, although of course Ukrainian politics are more predictable

Why did you compliment them))) What are they predictable, like a monkey with a grenade?))) I just can't remember the predictable

[mitroha]

At the same time, the American military command hardly shares the opinion of the observer that Ukraine is a "trap" for America.

So they are not supposed to share by rank. Ordered-conduct exercises. Only now the soldiers are complaining about poor food.

[rocket757]

When the coup d'état just took place in Ukraine, in the eyes of Western countries, he was surrounded by an aura of struggle for the ideals of democracy and other tinsel. But now, after seven years, the Kiev government has discredited itself even in front of those who initially supported it.

... Yes, the minke whales do not care about both the authorities and the state of the Kukuevs AT ALL.
They need an instrument of pressure on Russia and on the entire space of the former allies. A stupid herd that will fulfill their refusals ... ha, their interes and EVERYTHING!

[cniza]

That's exactly the tool and cannon fodder ...

[Reptiloid]

Quote: cniza

That's exactly the tool and cannon fodder ...

A vicious aggressive tool.

[cniza]

Rather stale and smelly ...

[rocket757]

In skillful paws and guano there is a use ... alas, alas, the Naglo-Saxons, before, knew how to use anything when they needed it.

[Reptiloid]

Fight against historical Russia ----- a long-standing theme of the Anglo-Saxons

[xorek]

Quote: Reptiloid

Quote: cniza

That's exactly the tool and cannon fodder ...

A vicious aggressive tool.

They have enough malice for ten, they crawl out of their skin in front of the owners .. What I heard enough from Kiev, I didn’t even hear that from the Baltic states ..
Everything is written and then they will not be dismissed that you misunderstood us and innocent weyyyyyy

[Sergej1972]

From many I heard what nasty things they were told by relatives from Ukraine, and often Russian by nationality, moreover, who were born somewhere in the Oryol or Kursk regions. However, this is not the case for me and my wife, relatives from there are mostly pro-Russian. And the anti-Russian-minded, whether a cousin, or a second cousin of his wife is Russian, moreover, he managed to serve in the KGB of the USSR, and even in the FSB of Russia, in Yakutia. Then he returned to Ukraine.

[rocket757]

There would be a tool, there are specialists to use it.

[aszzz888]

rocket757 (Victor)
Today, 14: 16
NEW
+3
When the coup d'état just took place in Ukraine, in the eyes of Western countries, he was surrounded by an aura of struggle for the ideals of democracy and other tinsel. But now, after seven years, the Kiev government has discredited itself even in front of those who initially supported it.
... Yes, the minke whales do not care about both the authorities and the state of the Kukuevs AT ALL.

That's all right. the merikatos will fight until the last Ukronazist.

[rocket757]

Only skakuas do not want to understand, know about that.
Those who have something in their head that have survived, tear their claws away and more ...

[Reptiloid]

A stupid herd that will perform .....

their chiefs bark and bark their teeth before their masters. I managed to cultivate, educate anti-Russia. I can't believe that their younger generation can somehow be changed.

[rocket757]

"treatment" is of varying degrees ... radicalism.

[Reptiloid]

Our mistakes in the post-Soviet space, missed opportunities are multiplying ..... All 30 years of abuse and lies about the USSR. And the USSR somehow managed to unite everyone.

[rocket757]

There will be no simple return to the past, the negotiated ones that the present ones tried to practice are USELESS! our enemy is much richer and more sophisticated!
You need to LEARN, THINK A LOT and ... still learn and think a lot before something sensible starts to turn out!

[Reptiloid]

It would seem that Russia has been with these peoples for so many years, understands them better than others, and does not take into account something important.

[rocket757]

We were together for many / different reasons, which now do not exist or they found some kind of SUBSTITUTION, at this stage of time.
They say you can't enter the same river / water twice !!! No question, looking for another ford or learning to swim together, with a new style !!!

[knn54]

According to the same sources, 70% of the Constitution of Ukraine is not being implemented.

[Incvizitor]

There, when they staged an anti-constitutional fascist coup in 14 year and the junta rewrote the constitution for themselves, all these laws finally ceased to exist like the country.

[hagen]

When the coup d'état just took place in Ukraine, in the eyes of Western countries, he was surrounded by an aura of struggle for the ideals of democracy and other tinsel. But now, after seven years, the Kiev government has discredited itself even in front of those who initially supported it.

An initially wrong message leads to wrong conclusions. The coup was directly initiated and carried out under the supervision of Western experts. They were not interested in any democracy in Ukraine, just as they are not interested in other countries of the world where they got to. Democracy in their true understanding is a tool for shaping public opinion in a patient country in order to bring to power the group of people who will adjust the system of government in the country in a direction favorable to the Western political class. But the problem is that the corrupt elite are almost never effective. Given that the Western political class itself does not pursue the goal of building the economy of the patient state. Their goal is to conquer markets and the resource base while destroying potential competitors. Therefore, all countries in which such coups were successful are economically in ruins. Ukraine is no trap for the United States. The deep state will not want to fight in Ukraine and will not. For him, the main thing here is to bring the country to such a state that Russia, neither economically, nor politically and culturally, would not want to build any kind of union with Ukraine itself.

[Avior]

... felt on myself and the author, whom his opponents subjected to a flurry of criticism

Unfortunately, this is sometimes practiced in VO, when marginal and isolated sources and events are presented as a kind of trend.
They decided somewhere to move to the masses the idea that Ukraine is allegedly losing interest in the West, and they publish a retelling of the author's article, which caused criticism in the States.
And what does this give, except as it creates a false picture of the world for the reader?
And then people wonder how Pashinyan won the election, but on the VO every day they published that the Armenians are against him: (((

[Andrei Nikolaevich]

Do not worry you so, really. Armenia, like Ukraine, is interesting only within the framework of the military review website. Left the site, turned off the Internet .. And there is no "problem" of Ukraine and no "problem" of Armenia. Simple communication on the site and nothing special. And what about these "independent states" everyone - excuse me, do not care.

[cniza]

Not only can the modern Ukrainian leadership be called a "bad company" for America, but Ukraine is also a dangerous ally for the United States, capable of dragging it into big trouble.

This understanding is not massive, so for now nothing will change ...

[Reptiloid]

In my opinion, the United States generally does not give a damn about any troubles. What does not happen, they do not worry. Destroyed Iraq. "Error". Only. Well what a trouble because of Ukraine .....

[cniza]

Yes, this country does not suffer from remorse, from the word never ...

[Aleksandr97]

Why is it so disrespectful to the TOOL in the great dream of Z. Bzhizinsky.
Comparison of Russia's attitude to Serbia is symptomatic - in general, in principle, there are countries for the United States to which they would treat, like Russia to Serbia ???

[Black lotos]

Quote: Alexander97

how is Russia to Serbia ???

feel free to enroll the picture in fakes.

"After the victory over communism, we need a split in Orthodoxy and the collapse of Russia, and Ukraine will help us in this, where betrayal is the norm of public morality."

this false quote was invented by the famous Russian director Nikita Mikhalkov, she also sounded from the mouth of the odious Odessa political expert Dmitry Spivak, on the air of the NewsOne TV channel.
Even in the Russian translation of the book of the ex-adviser on US national security Zbigniew Brzezinski (the original was published in 1997): in Russian - "The Great Chessboard. America's Dominance and Its Geostrategic Imperatives" -this phrase is not!
The phrases of Zbigniew, Thatcher, Bismarck about Ukraine, Russia / Siberia (and not only about the Russians) are most often a banal fake.

[Kronos]

The work of the agitation industry in its purest form. Fantasy inferences based on ideologically correct fantasy.

[Aleksandr97]

Agree More ornate, but the meaning can be traced ...
In turn, such a more decentralized Russia would not be so receptive to calls to unite in an empire. Russia, organized on the principle of a free confederation, which would include the European part of Russia, Siberian Republic and Far Eastern Republic, it would be easier to develop closer economic ties with Europe, with the new states of Central Asia and with the East, which would thereby accelerate the development of Russia itself. ... Strengthening a sovereign Ukraine, which now began to consider itself a state of Central Europe and forging closer cooperation with the region, an extremely important component of this policy, as well as developing closer ties with strategically important states such as Azerbaijan and Uzbekistan, in addition to broader efforts aimed at opening Central Asia (despite the obstacles, created by Russia) for the world economy. Large-scale international investment in the increasingly accessible Caspian-Central Asian region will not only help strengthen the independence of the new states, but will ultimately benefit a post-imperial democratic Russia.

[Sergej1972]

Brzezinski himself, a few years later, recognized his idea of ​​transforming Russia into a confederation unrealizable. But the very thought expressed by him shows that he was not such a great connoisseur of Russia, its history and geography. It is difficult to call him a real scientist.

[Sergej1972]

I don't really like Brzezinski, but ... there are no such words in the mentioned book.

[Andrei Nikolaevich]

I really hope that the United States and China will fight "for nezalEzhna Ukraine."

[Normal ok]

It is interesting that even on a super-zashkvarny site with a bang-patriotism, this opus plus was put only by one abnormal dude. It seems people are starting to guess about something ...

[spectr]

Yes, everything is fine with them so far.
1. They cut money for the pipe.
2. Everything that interested in the legacy of the USSR was cleaned up.
3. Disrupted production cycles and forced Russia to incur additional costs to restore production.
4. If they get tired of Ukraine, they can make a feint like with Afghanistan. Transfer Ukraine to Turkey's sphere of interests, thereby fueling Erdogan's ambitions to restore the Ottoman Empire.

These are only explicit. And there are probably a bunch of hidden "bonuses".