The bustle around the "Yuan"

15
The Drive known to us the other day issued an interesting conclusion in an article by Thomas Newdick: it seemed to the author (and the editorial office) that the design (and much more, probably) was copied by the Chinese from the Swedish submarine A26.


It can be interesting. The Swedish A26 class submarine is not yet ready, work is underway on it, but the Chinese intelligence officers have already copied everything and are releasing their submarine even faster than the Swedes.



Of course, the reason here is not dashing copyright, but real concern about what China is doing in its shipyards.

According naval construction of the PRC has long been watched by many media in the United States, and are watching intently. And the Chinese are constantly pouring kerosene into the fire, either with their program for the construction of aircraft carriers (and after all, they will build it), then they made a good noise about the new landing ships, and now they went under water.

As soon as the photographs of the new Type 039C Yuan class diesel-electric submarine appeared, everyone was thrown up pretty well. Everyone rushed to speculate and discuss the possible characteristics of the new boat.

But where to get them from? The Chinese, I give them their due, know how to keep secrets. It is not customary for them to throw flash drives around the bars, and strictly speaking about the sale of the secrets of the Motherland. Not a democratic country, what can I say ...

We have to start from something. Thank God the sail helped. They dug up to him, they say, is so similar to the Swedish at the A26 that it just drives his teeth. Exactly, they stole the calculations and ...

Lord, well, just a sail ... In general, what a useful and important part of any submarine, but how conclusions can be drawn from its design about the capabilities of a submarine is not entirely clear to me.

After all, the sail (before it was called a tower or a control room, in which language how) performed very simple functions: there were periscopes, antennas and sensors installed on the mast so that they would not be disabled by the oncoming stream of water. And it housed the command staff while moving on the surface.

Yes, even through the wheelhouse there is an exhaust pipe from diesel engines, sensors are placed on it, which determine, for example, the thickness of the ice layer, signal lights, and in general, it is strong enough and can play the role of an ice ax when surfacing.

In addition, the sail plays the role of a stabilizer; it is made somewhat asymmetrical in order to compensate for the reactive moment of the propeller in single-rotor submarines.

A useful thing, but what does it have to do with everything else?

In the Chinese analogue of Tik-Tok, Weibo, a short video appeared in which a boat with the flag of the PRC raised somewhere is going somewhere. And this video was a very good reason to talk about everything.

Yes, it is worth agreeing that the shape of Type 039C "Yuan" is somewhat different from the shapes of boats of the previous classes. This is normal, development still has to be.

“This revised sail design, flattened at the leading edge and flared towards the top, is very similar in appearance to the sail on the next generation Swedish A26 Blekinge class submarine. On a Swedish boat, this feature is believed to have been chosen to enhance its stealth performance. "

HI Sutton, a submarine expert, said "this is likely to be a major major upgrade to an already competitive design."

Sutton also suggests that such a sail design is likely to be related to sonar or communications, and also points to a hull aft, above the helmsman's compartment, which appears to contain the towed sonar. Other changes appear to be a new refined hull, which should ensure that the 039C is quieter underwater than its predecessors.

Strong, right? You can feel the handwriting of a real expert. Enlightened with X-ray and found out all the secrets (almost all).

True, Sutton then corrects himself. It's too early to talk about the boat's capabilities, as they say. Only the first glance. But if the internal improvements are the same as the improvements in the appearance of the boat, then the Type 039C will certainly become much better than the previous boats of the Type 039 project, which serve not only in the PRC fleet, but are also exported to Pakistan and Thailand. And they serve there pretty well.

It is generally accepted that the Chinese submarines Type 039A / B (aka Type 041) are among the quietest submarines in operation today. The Chinese version of the Stirling engine, running on liquefied oxygen, is no worse in practice than similar engines made in Sweden or Germany.

By burning oxygen and diesel, the Chinese engine powers generators that charge the batteries, keeping the boat from surfacing for days.

In another of his calculations, Sutton believes that harmful Chinese can use some completely exotic installation in their new submarine. Alternatively - on the same lithium batteries, which are used by Japanese submarines of the "Soryu" type. Yes, lithium is modern and advanced, faster charging and longer service life. True, lithium batteries can make an explosive case, but who doesn't risk it?

Sutton believes that China is able to develop and put into production the batteries that can replace the AIP engine (Stirling and others) in the boat's design.

In any case, the fact that China is still focused on developing conventional powered submarines, as opposed to an all-nuclear US fleet, is significant. As we've discussed in the past, modern diesel-electric boats have many advantages: they can be quieter than their nuclear-powered counterparts, while being much cheaper to build. That is, they are ideal for growing submarine forces, such as those provided for by the PLA's fleet development plans.


From the point of view of the usefulness of diesel-electric submarines and others like them, they fit better into the AC / AD defense strategy that China is implementing, and are better adapted to operations in the coastal zone, that is, these boats will become a real part of the defensive strategy.

China's Navy Modernization: Potential Implications for the US Navy, published in the US Congress earlier this year, estimates China could build and deploy at least 2025 submarines by 25. class "Yuan".

It is unclear how many of them will be completed under the Type 039C project, and whether this type of boats will be put into a separate subclass, but this is not particularly important. More importantly, the boats are being built, moreover, at a completely different shipyard, in Wuhan. That is, the construction of a new type of submarine will not in any way affect the construction of boats of other classes and types.

The emergence of a subclass of type 039C is another proof that the implementation of the modernization plan for the PRC Navy will be accompanied not only by quantitative, but also by qualitative growth.

And here the Chinese really made a breakthrough, moving from the Type 035 boats, which were copies of Soviet submarines, through the Type 039 class to the new Type 039C class.

In the United States, they really see this as a certain threat to their interests.

Here, of course, it was worth mentioning the following: if the threat from China's newest diesel-electric submarines exists, it looks very peculiar. The US Navy has an excellent nuclear submarine fleet. And there is only one place where Ohio and Virginia can lose to small (by atomarine standards) diesel-electric submarines. This is a coastal area.

And here we must understand that the option when the Chinese diesel-electric submarines will be in the coastal zone of the United States is very small. But the nuclear submarines of the United States can be anywhere "in the name of the interests of democracy." That is, in the coastal waters of the PRC.

And then the presence of such a number of modern submarines in China can really pose a threat to the interests of the United States.

But here everything is simple: maybe it is worth looking for a zone of interest elsewhere and away from the Chinese coast?
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15 comments
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  1. +10
    30 June 2021 04: 53
    After all, a sail (before it was called a tower or a control room, who has how in what language)
    We have the nickname "convertible" and officially the retractable enclosure.
    1. +1
      30 June 2021 07: 19
      H. I. Sutton, a submarine expert, believes
      “It will probably be ....
      Sutton also suggests
      in which, apparently,
      Other changes apparently
      which should guarantee
      It's too early to talk about the boat's capabilities, as they say.
      Roman, "I take off my hat" - such verbiage is expensive to translate into Russian.
      1. +3
        30 June 2021 12: 31
        Roman, "I take off my hat"


        I also ... laughing
        Yes, diesel exhaust pipes pass through the wheelhouse.

        Roman, is it really going away? Suction - yes, and even the Germans had exhaust in the Second World War in ballast tanks. Less noticeable, at the same time they were lubricated from the inside - less corrosion.
  2. 0
    30 June 2021 05: 24
    Of course, I wish the Chinese success in this field, I am sure the Chinese, with their perseverance, will achieve success in achieving superiority over the United States.
    1. +5
      30 June 2021 13: 49
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Of course, I wish the Chinese success in this field, I am sure the Chinese, with their perseverance, will achieve success in achieving superiority over the United States.

      I wouldn't be so happy. Changing one hegemon for another is a dubious pleasure. It remains to be seen who is worse.
  3. +2
    30 June 2021 06: 16
    The United States really sees this as a certain threat to its interests.

    Especially in the South China Sea, where these non-nuclear submarines, in combination with airfields, anti-ship missiles and anti-aircraft missile systems on artificial islands, will greatly limit the action of the US Navy, if not paralyze them at all during the threatened period.
    Yes, and Taiwan, which started the renewal of its submarine, has a "bell" ...
  4. +1
    30 June 2021 06: 33
    maybe it is worth looking for a zone of interest elsewhere and away from the Chinese coast?
    In order for the mattresses to understand this, they probably cannot do without the Sino-American massacre. Yes
  5. +11
    30 June 2021 07: 05
    Tik-Tok has no Chinese counterpart, it is Chinese.
  6. +7
    30 June 2021 07: 52
    the development of conventional powered submarines, as opposed to an all-nuclear US fleet, is essential


    No one knows what is being built in the second stage of Bohai, and the third is being built nearby. It is the largest nuclear submarine shipyard in the world right now. Actually, the main problem of the Chinese nuclear submarine fleet was Bohai. It was not reconstructed for a long time (since the 70s). Only in 19, a modern factory built entirely from scratch was introduced. And now they are building a new line.



  7. +3
    30 June 2021 08: 24
    author, it is not necessary to analyze everything from the point of view of the Americans. China, besides butting with the US Navy, has many other goals. The same Japan and India are much closer, and there are enough disputes between them. In my opinion, China now has 2 main goals in the development of the submarine fleet - to increase the possibility of delivering a nuclear strike on the territory of the United States and to increase the capabilities of defense against the fleets of its neighbors in order to untie the hands of a large surface group. In addition, according to the US analysis, the weakest point of the Chinese fleet is the ASW. And the development of submarines that can hunt for the same looks logical.
    К
    1. +1
      30 June 2021 19: 50
      Quote: yehat2
      do not analyze everything from the American point of view.

      This is a true statement, since in addition to the Yankees, there are enough smaller predators in the APR ... Japan, the Republic of Kazakhstan, the same Taiwan ... the Philippines. By the way, the States are not dumkopfs and they are not going to go out on hunfuz alone. In the best traditions of the Naglo-Saxons, they plan to put together an Asian NATO - the so-called. "Pacific Initiative". Here the United States has allies - Japan, India, Australia ...
      Therefore, the "039S" type submarine is likely to meet with the "Electro-SORYU" submarine and the no less advanced Korean submarine from the KSS III series. And Virginias will not climb in shallow water. Most likely there will be hooligans there will be helicopters and PLO planes. And this is a real problem for "Chinese comrades".
      1. 0
        1 July 2021 00: 04
        I doubt that the Asian Nat will work out. too many problems, besides Australia is already quite strongly connected with China.
        I think that only Japan and 1-2 countries from Indochina will actively support the United States.
  8. +1
    30 June 2021 10: 17
    "The Chinese copied from the Swedish submarine A-26" in principle, and this, perhaps, the Chinese are excellent copiers. They do not bother with the development: they take a sample and further develop
    Theoretically, we can assume: a) the Swedes showed a draft design, and the Chinese already realized what and how; b) the Chinese found a "key", I guess which one, to some Swede and ..... Hello: "project" yuan "
    1. -1
      18 August 2021 10: 08
      the Chinese are excellent copiers. They do not bother with the development: they take a sample and further develop

      1) There is nothing specifically Chinese about borrowing good solutions and inventions / designs. And by the way, there is nothing bad either. This is a common practice. Especially considering that in the field of military equipment for the needs of the state military forces, patents are valid "through the stump deck", if at all. This is "the practice that has developed over the centuries (in the literal sense of the word)."
      2) A submarine is a highly technical product. So much so that in this case it is usually much more expensive to create an unlicensed copy by "reverse engineering" than setting up licensed production according to formal agreements. The exception is cases when there was no "reverse engineering", but the theft of a complete or almost complete set of technical and production documentation.
  9. -1
    1 July 2021 00: 14
    and also indicates the hull in the stern, above the steering compartment
    what is this verbal diarrhea?

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