Military Review

Design Bureau "Malakhit" began the development of two projects of small submarines

41

In Russia, work has begun on the creation of small submarines. The corresponding developments are being carried out by the design bureau "Malachite", it follows from the annual report of the design bureau for the past, 2020.


According to the released documents, Malachite is developing two small submarines at once. We are talking about the multipurpose nuclear submarine of small displacement "Gorgona" and the small non-nuclear submarine (NNS) "Serval" with VNEU.

Work is being carried out on an initiative basis, to date, technical proposals have been developed for both submarines and the appearance has been determined. There are no other details on the developments.

On an initiative basis, technical proposals were developed and the appearance of the nuclear multipurpose submarine of small displacement "Gorgona" and the small non-nuclear submarine with VNEU "Serval" was determined

- quotes "Interfax" document.

It is noted that "Malachite" has experience in creating small submarines. Design Bureau specialists have developed a Project 865 Piranha submarine capable of carrying up to six combat swimmers, as well as performing combat missions off the coast and in shallow waters, including the destruction of lonely ships. Later, a modified version of the submarine appeared - "Piranha-T" with an increased stock of weapons. Also, the design bureau developed a project for small submarines P-550.
Photos used:
https://www.aoosk.ru/
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  1. tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 22 June 2021 12: 06
    +1
    Probably GUGI asked for the development, but for what? They won't tell us about it. If necessary, they will do it.
    1. Machito
      Machito 22 June 2021 12: 11
      +9
      Well, now, now there will be something for Kuzmich to go for berries. laughing
      1. tralflot1832
        tralflot1832 22 June 2021 12: 17
        +4
        And to the distant cordon for fishing! laughing
      2. Buffet
        Buffet 27 June 2021 23: 46
        +1
        well, she should work on everything that burns laughing
    2. Kurare
      Kurare 22 June 2021 12: 39
      +2
      Quote: tralflot1832
      Probably GUGI requested development

      GUGI probably ordered a small nuclear submarine, i.e. project "Gorgon". And "Serval" - with VNEU and maximum unification.
      If the perennial problem with VNEU is solved, it is a good idea.
      1. SovAr238A
        SovAr238A 22 June 2021 12: 51
        +2
        Quote: Kurare

        GUGI probably ordered a small nuclear submarine, i.e. project "Gorgon".


        Why is GUGI a small nuclear submarine?

        A small nuclear submarine is needed primarily by the fleet ...
        Besides, small - is it in comparison with what?
        With our Ash or Pike-B?
        Then both Suffren and Astyut should be considered small.
        And even Virginia ...
        And Rubis was a drilled submarine at that time.
        1. tralflot1832
          tralflot1832 22 June 2021 12: 56
          +3
          The Khfrans are masters. Such came to Murmansk, all the crew who were not on duty lived in the Arktika hotel. Their contract stipulates that if the boat is at the berth, there is only a watch on board.
          1. Andrei Nikolaevich
            Andrei Nikolaevich 22 June 2021 18: 21
            +1
            Yeah. And we walked around five. These are funky .. with backpacks and bubons ... Kindergarten)
            1. tralflot1832
              tralflot1832 22 June 2021 18: 42
              +3
              And my daddy, at Morda Slayer in Sev.Nagorny in the mid-70s, took 3 such caps with red bubons with friends as a trophy. The missile destroyer Duken called in Murmansk, stood at the seaport.
              1. Andrei Nikolaevich
                Andrei Nikolaevich 22 June 2021 21: 05
                0
                Well, it is not for nothing that this intersection was called "Jordan striker")
                1. tralflot1832
                  tralflot1832 22 June 2021 21: 07
                  0
                  Like a cafe "Lakomka", and before that a beer bar "Mordobika". laughing
                  1. Andrei Nikolaevich
                    Andrei Nikolaevich 22 June 2021 22: 03
                    +1
                    I know.) This is my city
        2. Kurare
          Kurare 22 June 2021 13: 03
          0
          Quote: SovAr238A
          Why is GUGI a small nuclear submarine?
          A small nuclear submarine is needed primarily by the fleet ...

          I agree with you, there may be options.
          Quote: SovAr238A
          Then both Suffren and Astyut should be considered small.

          It is quite possible that "Malachite" will follow the path of the French. The idea, as it turned out, is quite good and viable. But I think that the Malachite ones will be even smaller.
        3. Barberry25
          Barberry25 22 June 2021 13: 34
          -3
          do not scare so .. the submarine only with TA 533 is already tin ... at least 10-16 VPU need to be put
          1. SovAr238A
            SovAr238A 22 June 2021 13: 53
            0
            Quote: Barberry25
            do not scare so .. the submarine only with TA 533 is already tin ... at least 10-16 VPU need to be put


            Are the French stupid?
            that their newest project of the nuclear submarine "Barracuda", which is planned for a life time of up to 2070 - they equipped only with a TA in the amount of only 4 pieces?
            And they have ammunition of 20 torpedoes and KR and anti-ship missiles

            Angles also limited themselves to TA, albeit 6pcs. But they have as much ammunition as 48 pieces. torpedoes, CD, anti-ship missiles ...
            And they will also be for 40 years of operation.

            Maybe the "world has changed" and it's not a fact that the Americans and the Russians are right, with the installation of VPU modules on their MAPLs ???
            Or maybe the Franks and Angles are right? abandoning the VPU?
            Maybe you don't need such a large ammunition already?
            Well, there is clearly a tendency to understand that no one will give the "boat" - to hunt for weeks shamelessly ...
            And for launching missile strikes on the Papuans, a frigate / destroyer will always be better.
            Yes, and our diesel-electric submarines, like the same, were fired with calibers from the TA, they did not break ...

            Or do we still think that torpedoes need to be fired like a fan, as in the Second World War, and, accordingly, hundreds of ammunition are needed?
            1. Barberry25
              Barberry25 22 June 2021 20: 16
              -3
              and the French are good at VPU? and the British? without VPU, the capabilities of the APL are very neutered
              1. SovAr238A
                SovAr238A 22 June 2021 22: 48
                +1
                Quote: Barberry25
                and the French are good at VPU? and the British? without VPU, the capabilities of the APL are very neutered

                They can do VPU.
                For the VPU is the usual derivative of the SSBN missile silo.
                And the French missile silo was already completely ready by 1960.
                And the Brit had all the documentation, along with R&D on Lafayette, because their Resolution is a very revised Lafayette.
                And they have had a ship-based VPU for a long time.
                That is, there is plenty of technology and knowledge.
                But you probably don't know this.

                And the possibilities are not castrated at all.
                Especially if your TA loader is capable of recharging in 2 minutes ...

                But you probably don't know it ...
                Firing KR and anti-ship missiles from TA is much safer for the carrier.
                1. Barberry25
                  Barberry25 22 June 2021 22: 57
                  -1
                  or the French were never able to implement a VPU for submarines, and given the very limited funding, they gave birth to at least something to be ... about "shooting from a TA ... this is certainly cool, especially that the French had to double as much the displacement of the submarine, in order to increase from 14 to 20 weapons units. and they can take either torpedoes or missiles with a range of 250 km ... Poor Ash with 30 torpedoes and 40 missiles nervously smokes on the sidelines. and an important point ... launch through the TA limits the possibilities for the use of weapons ... in other words, you can launch Caliber through the TA, but you cannot launch Onyx, just as you cannot launch Zircon ... which raises the question.to spend a lot of money on a power plant, detection and camouflage means, but not to put a VPU in order to get the ability to launch the most powerful missiles .. The French are using muzzle grenades on machine guns .. should we start using them too?)
                  1. SovAr238A
                    SovAr238A 23 June 2021 00: 32
                    +2
                    Quote: Barberry25
                    or the French were never able to implement a VPU for submarines, and given the very limited funding, they gave birth to at least something to be ... about "shooting from a TA ... this is certainly cool, especially that the French had to double as much the displacement of the submarine, in order to increase from 14 to 20 weapons units. and they can take either torpedoes or missiles with a range of 250 km ... Poor Ash with 30 torpedoes and 40 missiles nervously smokes on the sidelines. and an important point ... launch through the TA limits the possibilities for the use of weapons ... in other words, you can launch Caliber through the TA, but you cannot launch Onyx, just as you cannot launch Zircon ... which raises the question.to spend a lot of money on a power plant, detection and camouflage means, but not to put a VPU in order to get the ability to launch the most powerful missiles .. The French are using muzzle grenades on machine guns .. should we start using them too?)


                    Seeing your answers, I understand that you do not really understand the question.
                    For the 3 most important (indicated by me) indicators - you ignored.
                    Well, it is clear why, this is not in Carbonic power and other uryak-manuals.

                    So the first thing.
                    Why did VPU appear on American nuclear submarines?
                    The concept and idea of ​​installing a WPU on an Elk appeared in the mid-70s.
                    Due to the overwhelming advantage in "quality" - American nuclear submarines, always and in large numbers, were on duty at the exits of Soviet bases - received a VPU to be able to strike with their nuclear missile launchers on the currently controlled Soviet base.
                    The commander of the American nuclear submarine, being on duty on the border of territorial waters, and in 95% of cases in territorial waters (because many examples of collisions and the facts of detecting enemy nuclear submarines were inside the terrorist command - in the case of a BP, he would have some kind of weapon to strike at Soviet targets.
                    Those. for them, the VPU installation was a compensating circuit.
                    Since American submarines graze all the time near the Soviet shores, and in the case of the BP, they will not be able to help the American nation in any way, being just torpedo tubes, so let's equip them with TLUs that will allow them to strike with 12 Tomahawk missile systems with a nuclear warhead. They will have about 3-4 minutes for a volley, the programs have already been laid down. Perhaps they will have time to shoot and survive. And thus they will damage the Soviet Union. Even being just in standby mode (not escorting our SSBNs and nuclear submarines).
                    This was the idea and concept of using US nuclear submarines in the mid-70s and early 80s.
                    And they implemented it.
                    And the PKR Harpoon, they also planned to release it through TA.
                    And yes.
                    Moose's ammunition, our most real enemy in the submarine, was 10-12 torpedoes, 4-6 simulators and 6 Harpoon anti-ship missiles ...
                    And 12 nuclear Tomahawks in a tactical version.
                    The simplest analogy for ordinary people who are ignorant of weapons is a tractor of the T-80 type.
                    Until the mid-70s, there were either tractors with "dumps" or excavators.
                    Then, one of the manufacturers came up with the idea of ​​hanging excavator equipment on this tractor. in addition to the "dump". And it turned out to be quite an excellent symbiosis of multipurpose equipment. And can rake and dig.
                    So, the second and third Elks are the same symbiosis. That American symbiosis in the mid-70s.

                    Attention question.
                    Why do we repeat the Americans if we are never on duty near Bangor, or Kings Bay?
                    What if for a piece approach 100 miles to Bangor we give the submarine commander a Hero and write books about him?
                    We just didn't need a VPU.
                    And now we don’t need them.
                    For the main task of our nuclear submarines is to escort our SSBNs.
                    And this is 99,99% work against the attacking nuclear submarines of the USA, England, France. Those. only torpedoes.
                    With us, for the next 30 years. there could be no task to control Bangor.
                    It just can't be!
                    It AXIOM!
                    We do not have a task to shoot by the forces of the nuclear submarine on duty at the Kings Bay naval base!
                    no and will not be for many years, and maybe never!
                    Why do we need a VPU?
                    Is it just stupid to repeat the American experience?
                    Well, they have a variant of using the VPU during watch and patrol ...
                    And where and where are we going to use missiles with VPUs? If all Ash trees are obliged to protect all the Princes in order to give them a chance to live and launch missiles in case of BP?
                    Think about it ...

                    Second.
                    You think
                    and they can take either torpedoes or missiles with a range of 250 km ...
                    ...
                    I have a second feeling that you are completely out of topic ...
                    So..
                    why or ?
                    They take in any configuration.
                    How much they want and what they want, just no more than 20 pieces.
                    Missiles in the size of a TA, prepared for launching from a TA, reloading is almost instantaneous. About 2 minutes by TA. Recharging 4/6 TA goes in parallel.
                    And why 250 km? If the naval scalp flies 1000 km ...

                    The third.
                    Why is Ash's ammunition load of 30 torpedoes?
                    What for?
                    If even in the hottest years of the Cold War, Elk had only 12 torpedoes?
                    The Virgin has more ammunition, almost 2 times, but I'm sure that 30-40% of it is imitators. And the rest is divided between torpedoes and Harpoon anti-ship missiles.
                    Why do we need 30 if our main task is to escort our SSBNs?
                    There is no way to shoot 30 torpedoes ...
                    There, in the case of a BP, you will have to shoot in all directions with imitators, jammers, and maybe it will be possible to have time to shoot at the enemy with torpedoes, just 1-2 pieces per one of the enemies ... But there will be no more than 3 of them ...
                    Why 30 torpedoes ???

                    Fourth.
                    We have more underwater cruise missile carriers fired through a TA than underwater cruise missile carriers fired through a TLU.
                    And for some reason, they are mostly "fuel oil".
                    Maybe this is a symptom that practically no Pike-B is still equipped with equipment for launching Calibers?
                    Even from TA?

                    The fifth.
                    KR carriers, which are surface vessels, are much more efficient in terms of the use of KR.
                    Because creating a flight mission takes a lot of time.
                    Previously, before 2010, it took almost 10 hours.
                    Now it's half an hour.
                    But.
                    All this is done by onshore facilities.
                    On board the ship, the formation of a flight mission for a tactical RC from scratch is now impossible in principle.
                    And receiving a flight assignment for the RC, which is located on the nuclear submarine, is the strongest unmasking sign for the nuclear submarine itself.
                    The ammunition load of the frigate, which is 3 times cheaper than the nuclear submarine, is twice or three times more than that of the same nuclear submarine
                    Accordingly, it is much easier to make a salvo by the forces of the surface of the fleet.
                    Moreover, given that for the same Shayrat - it was necessary to release almost 60 CD.
                    Accordingly, you need to understand that the role of nuclear submarines in a missile strike by the forces of the KK is negligible !!!!
                    And it is near-zero.
                    And is unable to disrupt the operation of the object.
                    Those. we understand that the role of the VPU on our nuclear submarines in our concept of using the APD is insignificant in the global confrontation, and even against the Papuans .. Insignificant.

                    The sixth.
                    Attacks of aircraft carrier groups by our nuclear submarines from the VPU.
                    Yes, the forces of one state-of-the-art nuclear submarine of the Russian fleet of the Severodvinsk type can launch "32 Onyx anti-ship missiles towards the enemy" ...
                    32 Onyx is a formidable force.
                    But again there are "but".
                    The carrier group always has a Hawkeye.
                    A rocket taking off even from a nuclear submarine is always lifted by the launch booster to an altitude of 300-500 meters.
                    Rate of fire (ideal) from the VPU - 15 seconds.
                    Accordingly, all missiles will be at a glance for the enemy. They will be discovered immediately and will go on a silver platter "in the queue ... s children, in the queue" ....
                    If they follow a long-range (300 km) high-speed trajectory, they will be in full view for all AUG air defense systems.
                    If they go along a short-range (120 km) low-speed trajectory, it will still not help them - Hawkeye will see them and direct missiles at them in the NIF-Ka over-the-horizon guidance.
                    And this is provided that someone will give 100% target designation to our nuclear submarine in that area.

                    Those. the whole idea of ​​basing TLU installations on our nuclear submarines is practically sabotage.
                    We spend money on things that will never be used.

                    Please teach materiel ...
                    In order not to use agitation ...
                    1. Gust
                      Gust 23 June 2021 18: 36
                      +1
                      First. "A dagger is good for whoever has it, and woe to that ...." So it's better to have a dagger. Moreover, the VPU BC is not limited to CD, there are different options, which allows you to have a certain flexibility in the use of the complex.
                      Second. In the VPU, there can also be a different BC, moreover, an all-aspect one. And the steamer may have restrictions on maneuver due to the operation of the torpedo coils at the time of firing.
                      Third. Obviously, not all thirty will be torpedoes.
                      Fourth. Pike-B is not the most modern nuclear submarine, to put it mildly.
                      Fifth. It will be necessary to be able to form on board in a simplified form.
                      Sixth. Hokai hangs from all angles 24/7 ???
                    2. avg avg
                      avg avg 24 June 2021 07: 52
                      0
                      Ie the boss is gone! And it's better to give up right away!
                    3. Barberry25
                      Barberry25 24 June 2021 16: 19
                      0
                      And now a simple question ... how much cheaper is a nuclear submarine with 20 torpedoes against a nuclear submarine with 20 torpedoes 10-16 VPU? And tell me, what's the point of developing long-range missiles and placing them ONLY on the NK? It smells like stupidity at the level of betrayal ... So what is there for the price?
      2. K-36
        K-36 22 June 2021 13: 08
        +1
        [quote = Kurare] [quote = tralflot1832] Probably GUGI requested development [/ quote]
        GUGI probably ordered a small nuclear submarine,
        For GUGI, that's really exactly this device: June 22. INTERFAX - [b] Design Bureau "Malakhit" has developed a technical project for the modernization of the nuclear deep-water station of project No. 10831 "Losharik". [/ B
        Link: https://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=552014&lang=RU
        hi
    3. Paranoid50
      Paranoid50 22 June 2021 16: 09
      +1
      Quote: tralflot1832
      Probably GUGI requested development

      Sami, all by yourself. yes
      Work is being carried out on an initiative basis, to date, technical proposals have been developed for both submarines and the appearance has been determined.
  2. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 22 June 2021 12: 27
    0
    Those. There is no VNEU in metal yet, but they are developing submarines from scratch, but what about experimental tests?
    1. poquello
      poquello 22 June 2021 12: 34
      +1
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      Those. There is no VNEU in metal yet, but they are developing submarines from scratch, but what about experimental tests?

      just an article was about a drone with VNEU from Lazurit
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 22 June 2021 12: 42
        +2
        Quote: poquello
        just an article was about a drone with VNEU from Lazurit

        There is nothing about VNEU in the article, although the IMPOSED range is impressive.

        Note that the drone is based on a non-nuclear power plant.
        1. poquello
          poquello 22 June 2021 13: 05
          +2
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          There is nothing about VNEU in the article, although the IMPOSED range is impressive.

          well, this is nothing in the article, but I dug there VNEU costs
          )
          1. Vladimir_2U
            Vladimir_2U 22 June 2021 13: 06
            +1
            Quote: poquello
            well, this is nothing in the article, but I dug there VNEU costs

            Understood, "Keep watching!" drinks
          2. Alex777
            Alex777 22 June 2021 15: 58
            +1
            there is nothing in the article, but I dug there VNEU costs

            The most interesting thing is not whether VNEU exists, but what it is.
            But this, indeed, will not be said soon. I look forward to 2023. hi
    2. NDR-791
      NDR-791 22 June 2021 12: 39
      +2
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      Those. There is no VNEU in metal yet, but they are developing submarines from scratch, but what about experimental tests?

      VNEU is. In any case, the bench operation was reported back in 17. In this case, I am ready to believe in equipping a small submarine with it. If the bench sample is worked out (and it is not large by definition), then making a dozen of the same to equip a comparable load is not a great task.
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 22 June 2021 12: 42
        0
        Quote: NDR-791
        VNEU is. In any case, the bench operation was reported back in 17.

        Well, it means that real tests will be carried out on this mini-boat.
        1. NDR-791
          NDR-791 22 June 2021 12: 48
          0
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          Well, it means that real tests will be carried out on this mini-boat.

          Still it would have come down to the real "hardware". And then "on an initiative basis" now this is not Grabin with the ZIS-2, the times are not the same.
        2. Eldorado
          Eldorado 22 June 2021 13: 48
          +1
          The Navy already has a Project 20120 test submarine Sarov. It even allegedly tested VNEU on it.
  3. rudolff
    rudolff 22 June 2021 12: 27
    +3
    Malachite probably already has a whole car of projects of these small and ultra-small submarines. The only problem is that they could not interest anyone, either in our country or abroad.
  4. Servisinzhener
    Servisinzhener 22 June 2021 12: 29
    0
    Judging by the dimensions indicated in open sources for the non-nuclear version of the submarine,
    it will be able to be based in such a place as the famous object 825 GTS.
    Because in size, it is similar to the boats of the 613 and 633 projects.
    1. SovAr238A
      SovAr238A 22 June 2021 13: 16
      +1
      Quote: Servisinzhener
      Judging by the dimensions indicated in open sources for the non-nuclear version of the submarine,
      it will be able to be based in such a place as the famous object 825 GTS.
      Because in size, it is similar to the boats of the 613 and 633 projects.


      Why should it be based where the “sense of basing” has been lost and is irrelevant?
  5. Evil 55
    Evil 55 22 June 2021 13: 14
    +2
    But someone who was "smart" had previously thought of handing over their almost new, the same toys for pins and needles.
  6. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 22 June 2021 17: 36
    0
    We are talking about the multipurpose nuclear submarine of small displacement "Gorgona"
    It seems that they did not fall into the walnut mythology before, or did they transfer their own evil spirits? repeat "Mermaid" or "Mavka" would be fine. request
  7. SVD68
    SVD68 23 June 2021 03: 39
    0
    Pl "Serval" is P-750 B. VNEU is a two-mode turbine capable of operating on atmospheric air or liquid oxygen from Dewar vessels. Submerged speed only from VNEU - 10 knots.
  8. Russobel
    Russobel 23 June 2021 07: 02
    0
    Quote: Bearded
    Well, now, now there will be something for Kuzmich to go for berries. laughing

    After berries ...