The US Air Force plans to receive the latest sixth generation fighter in two versions at once

The US military intends to receive the latest sixth generation fighter in two versions at once. This was announced at a hearing in Congress.

Two high-ranking Pentagon representatives at once: Air Force Chief of Staff General Charles Brown and the head of the Combat Aviation Command, General Mark Kelly, spoke to congressmen at hearings on the secret Next Generation Air Dominance (NGAD) program, within the framework of which the next, sixth fighter is being developed. generations.

According to the generals, the Pentagon intends to receive two modifications of the new aircraft at once for operations in different zones. The military plans to create a heavy fighter for operations in the Indo-Pacific region and an easy one for operations in the European theater of operations. Versions will differ in combat load and flight range, but both must be multipurpose, i.e. capable of conducting aerial combat and striking ground targets.

The Pentagon plans that the new aircraft will become the "dominant systems" in the air and will be able to enter the zones of increased enemy air defense in order to strike at critical infrastructure.

Recall that the US Air Force intends to abandon the F-2030 fighters in favor of the Next Generation Air Dominance - NGAD program by 22. Will Roper, Assistant Secretary of the Air Force for Procurement, Technology and Logistics, said last year that within the framework of this program, the first prototype of a promising aircraft has already been developed and built in the United States, intended for preliminary flight tests and development of basic technologies. According to him, this sample has already made its first flight.

Comments

[Guardian of the walls]

All this is very strange. Why a heavy fighter for Asia and a light one for Europe? Why not a combination?

[Torins]

Apparently in Asia, the range and the ability to take on board more heavy weapons play an important role.

[Yves762]

Maybe because of the potential distances and the aerodrome grid ...
Although in this case the weight will go stupidly into the fuel.

[Grandfather]

Interestingly, our rather 50 pieces of SU-57 will make, or the Americans of the 6th generation will make 200 pieces? rates will be?

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Quote: Dead Day

Interestingly, our rather 50 pieces of SU-57 will make, or the Americans of the 6th generation will make 200 pieces? rates will be?

And who will you personally bet on?

[Guardian of the walls]

I bet on yours. But with a clear understanding that the SU-57 is never the fifth generation

[ramzay21]

Of course the Americans. Ours for ourselves is unlikely to master 2030 pieces by 50, the time frame, as always, will move to the right.

[VO3A]

the first prototype of a promising aircraft has already been developed and built in the USA,

According to him, this sample has already made its first flight.

Wow, pi_ndos are already testing mock-ups and they fly .... Is it a modeling circle in the USA?

[Stas157]

Quote: Dead Day

interestingly, our rather 50 pieces of SU-57 will make, or the Americans of the 6th generation 200 pieces? rates will be?

A question with meaning! What do these 200 pieces will be only an initial batch, and 50 pieces of Su-57 by this time have already been twice modernized (and then if they are).

[Troll]

As already mentioned, in Europe there are a large number of airfields, a large number of bases and, as a result, the radius of the flyer may be less.
Chinese fighters are not expected there either.

[knn54]

I think that heavy fighters will be sea-based, on aircraft carriers, first of all. Of the new products is the radio-photon radar.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: knn54

New products include radio-photon radar.

Unpromising technology. There will be no her.

[A009]

Why hopeless? Not an expert, but how much I read, it sounds encouraging. Share your data.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Photons are easily absorbed by certain materials and converted into heat, you just need to remove it.
Quantum radars can still be effective in theory, but radio-photon radars are definitely not.
But a study was carried out on quantum radars with the conclusion that they are useless for the armed forces. An article about it: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/40933/quantum-radar-offers-no-benefits-to-the-military-say-pentagon-science-advisors

[A009]

As I understand it, you don't even understand the principle of radio-photonics. Right? What does the absorption of certain materials and heat removal have to do with it ??))))

[OgnennyiKotik]

I just understand, I have a radio engineering education. Don't confuse quantum and radio-photon radars. Absorption, reflection, transmission and bending are always at the same time, as well as heat removal. They are the laws of physics, they do not depend on the wishes of the authorities or propaganda materials.

[A009]

Can I clarify where you studied? )) You really do not even understand the principle of radio photonics)))) Please tell me where the principle of bending you specified is applied (probably you were talking about photons) in radio photonics? Specifics please.

[A009]

At the same time, you also put a minus to me?)))) Kindergarten by God. Well, not a site with a military theme)))))))))))

[Anachoret]

Quote: Guardian of the Walls

Why a heavy fighter for Asia and a light one for Europe?

With Asia, mattresses are hard, and Europe itself takes off its pants at the sight of overseas "masters")

[Knell wardenheart]

Because the Americans are well aware that our threat is incomparably less than the Chinese one. Around the Russian Federation, they have already managed to blind a cordon sanitaire, the dynamics of building up our aviation and navy forces allow them to rightly conclude that we do not intend to take any active steps to break this cordon in the next decade or a half. For their part, despite the rattling of weapons, they are not going to attack us themselves, because such an attack is one continuous long-term hemorrhoid without any benefits as such. Their line in Europe is pure containment.
The line in Asia should be more flexible and "with a margin" because it is unclear how far China will go in the next 10-15 years.

[Bshkaus]

Why a heavy fighter for Asia and a light one for Europe?

One of the requirements for a sixth generation aircraft is a hypersonic speed of M = 3-4 (if not more) and the ability to perform tasks at any distance from the airfield. It is assumed that for the maintenance of the database in Asia, the fighters will take off from the continental United States. Thus, airborne detection planes on the same continent are turning into "front-line fighters". In fact, the radius of action is being pushed back.

[Zaurbek]

And someone was murdered about the creation of the Sukhoi design bureau of a light fighter ...... Here's an example, they immediately design both heavy and light.

[Alex777]

Against the background of plans announced by the United States to phase out the F-22 by 2030 and suspend purchases of the F-35 in 2022, the development of a heavy and light fighter at the same time looks quite logical.

[Zaurbek]

Here the "background" has nothing to do with ... they have a clear line of F-15 and F16, F22 and F35 ..... It's just that the 4th generation is so successful and versatile, and the 5th generation does not have flight advantages over 4m ... but on 4e, you can put both turbojet engine and avionics and weapons of the 5th ...... and 4 was delayed and the 5e did not displace it ..... As it happened when changing the 3rd to the 4th.

[Guardian of the walls]

Suspension of F-35 purchases only in your dreams

[Alex777]

Suspension of F-35 purchases only in your dreams

The US Air Force procurement program for fiscal 2022 did not include the latest F-35 fighters, Defense News reported.
It is noted that although this program has not yet been approved by Congress, the complete absence of any mention of the F-35 in it at least raises questions.
According to the information, the main amount will be directed to the purchase of 12 F-15EX fighters, for which $ 1,4 billion has been allocated.

https://www.aex.ru/news/2021/6/4/229706/

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Alex777

Against the background of plans announced by the United States to phase out the F-22 by 2030 and suspend purchases of the F-35 in 2022, the development of a heavy and light fighter at the same time looks quite logical.

there is no suspension at the F-35 ...
There is a rejection of the double acceleration of the speed of the assembly line F-35.
Planned production of 140-150 pieces per year - is going "according to plan" ...

[Alex777]

https://www.aex.ru/news/2021/6/4/229706/

https://rg.ru/2021/06/05/pentagon-otkazalsia-ot-zakupok-f-35.html

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Alex777

https://www.aex.ru/news/2021/6/4/229706/

This is fake news ...
Wrong translation.

now more reliable news.
Not taken out of context, but correct.
On December 31, 2020, Bloomberg reported that the US Department of Defense had decided to postpone full-scale production of fifth-generation F-35 fighters for an indefinite period. The fact is that combat tests of this vehicle have not yet been carried out. What is interesting: the dates of their holding are constantly postponed from 2017, that is, for four years.
The next test date was set for December 2020, but again they did not take place. The new date is planned to be determined after an independent technical examination. The month-long combat test is expected to take place between mid-to-late 2021. Prior to the Pentagon's decision to begin full-scale production of the F-35, Lockheed Martin will produce these combat vehicles "at low levels at the planned pace."

I am translating into Russian.
Lockheed Martin - does not have the right to independently change the speed of the assembly line.
The Department of Defense has complete control over the assembly line.
And it is it that gives or does not give the go-ahead "to increase the speed of the conveyor and the rate of production of finished aircraft."
In this case, Bloomberg's news suggests that the US Department of Defense's annual assembly line test, Lockheed Martin, has failed. And it will continue to assemble the aircraft at the standard planned pace.
And they wanted to double the assembly volume than it was previously planned !!!


8 April 2021 to 10: 31
At the Lockheed Martin facility in Fort Worth, Texas, the first fifth-generation F-35A fighter was rolled out and handed over to the Danish Air Force.

From the US defense budget for 2021, $ 11,4 billion was allocated for the purchase of 79 F-35 fighters manufactured by Lockheed Martin.

[Alex777]

This is fake news ...
Wrong translation.

You can reread what I have written above:

... and the suspension of purchases of the F-35 in 2022g.

In the procurement program for aircraft equipment for the US Air Force for fiscal year 2022 there were no newest F-35 fighters, according to Defense News.

and understand that everything you wrote about the events of 2021. do not apply to me.
There is a difference between what is produced in a factory and what the US Army buys.
Lockheed has many international orders.
I wrote about the purchases of the US Army in 2022.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Alex777

and understand that your statements about the events of 2021. do not apply to me.

I repeat - you have incorrect data.

https://www.interfax.ru/world/769478
The US administration has asked for $ 752,9 billion for the 2022 defense budget.

Over $ 52 billion in the ministry was requested for the purchase of new military equipment. Among other things, $ 12 billion for the purchase of 85 F-35 aircraft, $ 835 million - for the purchase of 30 AH-64E Apache helicopters.

in 21, 79 fighters, and in 22 - 85 fighters.

Even growth, not cessation.

Moreover, this is a reduced budget from Biden, and not plans from Trump.

here in English.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/28/pentagon-asks-for-715-billion-in-2022-defense-budget.html

The Pentagon is asking for $ 52.4 billion to invest in the military's air domain. Of that total, the Defense Department wants $ 12 billion to buy 85 F-35 Joint Strike Fighters. The F-35 is Lockheed Martin's largest program and the world's most expensive weapons system.

Other major investments:
14 Boeing KC-46 tanker aircraft: $ 2.5 billion
9 Lockheed Martin CH-53K King Stallion helicopters: $ 1.7 billion
12 Boeing F-15EX fighter jets: $ 1.5 billion
30 Boeing AH-64E Apache attack helicopters: $ 825 million

but in general - the most villainous primary source ...
https://www.defense.gov/Newsroom/Releases/Release/Article/2638711/the-department-of-defense-releases-the-presidents-fiscal-year-2022-defense-budg/

and it is the same.
Lethal Air Forces ($ 52.4 billion). Investments include:

85 F-35 Joint Strike Fighters - $ 12 billion
14 KC-46 Tanker Replacements - $ 2.5 billion
9 CH-53K King Stallion - $ 1.7 billion
12 F-15EX - $ 1.5 billion
30 AH-64E Apache Attack Helicopters - $ 825 million

[Alex777]

The title of the article:

US Air Force wish list includes more F-15EX jets but no F-35s

The text of the article:

...
But the biggest surprise was the conspicuous absence of additional F-35 Joint Strike Fighters.
...
Over the past several years, the Air Force requested funds for 48 Lockheed Martin-made F-35s in its budget and additional F-35s in its unfunded wish list... But service officials hinted that practice could stop in FY22 as it waits for the upgraded Block 4 version of the jet to be fielded in the mid-2020s.

What's wrongly translated?
https://www.defensenews.com/congress/budget/2021/06/02/air-force-asks-for-more-f-15ex-jets-in-fy22-unfunded-wish-list-not-f-35s/
Waiting for Block 4.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: Alex777

What's wrongly translated?

Quote: Alex777

But the biggest surprise was the conspicuous absence of additional F-35 Joint Strike Fighters.

additional - additional

Ushakov's Dictionary

Additional
additional, additional, additional.

1. Complementary, supplementary. Additional clarification. Additional vacation. Additional card.

2. Being in the role of a complement (in 2 meanings; gram.). Additional subordinate clause.

• Additional colors (physical) - two colors, giving achromatic (in 2 values) color upon optical mixing.

[Alex777]

Many beeches OgnennyiKotik.
You are interpreting additional to those already ordered in 2022.
Why not additional to those already available to the army?
Especially considering the mention of Block 4?
Have you read the whole article?

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Alex777

Many beeches OgnennyiKotik.
You are interpreting additional to those already ordered in 2022.
Why not additional to those already available to the army?
Especially considering the mention of Block 4?
Have you read the whole article?

Because Kitty writes what is ...
And additional - just about what I wrote earlier:

US Department of Defense Annual Assembly Line Test - Lockheed Martin Failed. And it will continue to assemble the aircraft at the standard planned pace.
And they wanted to double the assembly volume than it was previously planned !!!

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Alex777

The title of the article:

US Air Force wish list includes more F-15EX jets but no F-35s

The text of the article:

...
But the biggest surprise was the conspicuous absence of additional F-35 Joint Strike Fighters.
...
Over the past several years, the Air Force requested funds for 48 Lockheed Martin-made F-35s in its budget and additional F-35s in its unfunded wish list... But service officials hinted that practice could stop in FY22 as it waits for the upgraded Block 4 version of the jet to be fielded in the mid-2020s.

What's wrongly translated?
https://www.defensenews.com/congress/budget/2021/06/02/air-force-asks-for-more-f-15ex-jets-in-fy22-unfunded-wish-list-not-f-35s/
Waiting for Block 4.

Waiting for Block 4 for the Pentagon to give permission to double the speed of the assembly line ...
I repeat again.
I described a real situation to you.
On fingers.
I gave you a link from the Pentagon itself with the budget and the number of production plans for the F-35.
But you still get out of it.

Well, accept that your sources are wrong.
they incorrectly translated the very word additional - which completely distorted the meaning itself.

[Alex777]

I carefully read your link.
I can assume the following:
- the article I cited about the US Air Force,
- the one you quoted about the Pentagon.
And your link does not list the F-35 modification.
It's funny, but it looks like we are both right: the Air Force does not buy, but the Navy and the ILC can buy.

But you still get out of it.

Don't be manipulative.
At my age and in my position, I have not needed this for a long time, believe me.
And to figure it out for yourself is interesting. That's all.

[Alex777]

but in general - the most villainous primary source ...

I read it. Was it in vain that I lived in the States for almost 10 years?

$ 12 billion to buy 85 F-35

Given the figures, it turns out that each F-35, on average, costs $ 141 million? Did Lockheed sound like a figure less than 100 million?
And it turns out that these numbers are closer to the truth:

As a result, according to the findings of POGO, in the 2020 financial year (started on October 1, 2019), the cost of purchasing one F-35A still exceeds $ 100 million. US Navy documents show that the acquisition of the F-35C fighter is now costing the Navy $ 123 million, and each F-35B for the Marine Corps is worth $ 166 million.

[Torins]

How will a 6th generation fighter be different from a 5th generation fighter? And then all the information that I came across said that the concept and performance characteristics were still at the stage of development.

[CommanderDIVA]

Perhaps the aircraft will be controlled by artificial intelligence, there will be no pilot in the cockpit, but there will also be no operator on the ground, like a UAV, and the human body has certain strength limits to keep increasing overloads in the air

[Torins]

Those. Air terminator.

[paul3390]

How will a 6th generation fighter be different from a 5th generation fighter?

The amount of dough drank.

[OgnennyiKotik]

All this division into generations is very arbitrary and is purely marketing in nature. It would be more correct to talk about a new fighter and how the F-22 would be better.
More advanced stealth (in the concept, folding keels so that radars of the meter range would not flop), maintaining high maneuverability, AI initially, built-in self-defense energy weapons (possibly), long range and number of weapons, the ability to control slave UAVs, open modular architecture, optional unmanned ...

[Bshkaus]

All this division into generations is very arbitrary and is purely marketing in nature. It's more correct to say ...

No, for a certain generation of aircraft there is a clear list of prescribed criteria, which are formed based on the requirements of the military.
An aircraft of a certain generation is considered only one that has the entire set of minimum required characteristics.
Next comes the verbiage: the plane may not have all the "basic" characteristics, but at least many, then it belongs to the "Plus" generation, "two pluses", etc.
It also happens that the plane lacks at least one criterion, then it is conventionally referred to the next generation, but there are reservations about the fact that this is not quite the "fifth" (any other) generation. For example, the Su-57 with engines of the first stage, despite the fulfillment of all other criteria, really could not be considered a fifth-generation aircraft with a basic set of functions.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: Bshkaus

for a certain generation of aircraft there is a clear list of prescribed criteria , which are formed based on the requirements of the military.

I ask for a link to the list of criteria for the classification of generations approved by the military (officials).

[Bshkaus]

I ask for a link to the list of criteria for the classification of generations approved by the military (officials).

Try to find it yourself, or are you used to the fact that everything in life is given to you in a chewed form? This question is easily googled

[OgnennyiKotik]

Googled, only such documents do not exist in nature. Only the fantasies of journalists and the materials of marketers of arms manufacturers.

[Bshkaus]

Googled, only such documents do not exist in nature.

documents exist, are called "TK" for the product. Another question is that they will not be shown to you.

[pyagomail.com]

The fifth generation has not been fully sorted out. It seems that there are two advantages over the 4th: supersonic without afterburner and stealth for radars. However, stealth leads to a deterioration in aerodynamics, maneuverability and controllability, and, most importantly, not so stealth is achieved, at least at this stage. Supersonic without afterburner can also be obtained on 4th generation fighters. And the 6th generation, as they wrote, is it without a pilot? That is, drones?

[1Alexey]

Quote: pyagomail.ru

Supersonic without afterburner can also be obtained on 4th generation fighters.

It may be possible if the engine is changed, only then it will not be the 4th generation (in principle, the 6th generation can also be called the deeply modernized 1st).

Much has been written about the performance characteristics of the 6th generation: the UAV variant, the manned "master" variant with the UAV as a "slave", and the hypersonic variant.

Variants are possible with a new improved radio-absorbing coating and new types of weapons (for example, a laser, etc.)

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: 1Alexey

Maybe it is possible if you change the engine, only then it will not be the 4th generation

Eurofighter, Rafal, Gripen have a supersonic cruising speed of up to 1,4M with armament now.

[1Alexey]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

Eurofighter, Rafal, Gripen have a supersonic cruising speed of up to 1,4M with armament now.

I wrote that there is no need to rest on the generation number.

You can call Eurofighter, Rafal, Gripen the 4th generation, you can call the 4+ or 4 ++ generation, or you can call the 10th, etc.

It is possible to change the generation number for each "sneeze" (the United States, for example, still does not consider our Su-57 a 5th generation fighter (because its stealth is achieved only in frontal projection), and its F-35 is considered the 5th generation , although it does not have a supersonic cruising speed), but what is important is the real efficiency of the aircraft, and not what generation number was assigned to it by the manufacturing country ..

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: 1Alexey

(The United States, for example, still does not consider our Su-57 a 5th generation fighter

No, only stubborn commentators write that way. In the USA, the Su-57 belongs to the 5th generation, like the J-20.

Quote: 1Alexey

although it does not have supersonic cruising speed)

A question of terminology. The F-35 accelerates to 1,2M without afterburner, but this is a trance, supersonic starts from 1,25M.

[1Alexey]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

F-35 without afterburner accelerates to 1,2M, but this is a trance sound, supersonic starts from 1,25M

He (F-35) cannot fly at a supersonic speed of more than 50 s (otherwise its radio-absorbed coating fails), which means that it cannot use supersonic as a cruising speed.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Logically wrong.

When the F-35 is flying at supersonic speed for more than 40 seconds, the radio-absorbing coating may be damaged. Which does not mean the lack of the possibility of supersonic flight, but only the fact that the coating can be damaged (or maybe not) in this flight mode.
Damage to the coating will lead to an increase in RCS in the milliliter range, which is not pleasant, but going to supersonic means that the F-35 is detected and is conducting an air battle or skidding from it. So the increase in EPR is no longer important.

The time to damage is significantly longer on transsound, the main feature of the F-0,8 is the fight at 1,2-35 M in non-afterburner mode.

[Yrec]

The program for the creation of 6th generation fighters has already been launched - new printing presses have been purchased from the FRS.

[Stone]

That is, in order to produce 76 announced Su-57s within a year or two, Goznak just needs to install new printing presses? An ingenious solution.

[rocket757]

The Pentagon plans that the new aircraft will become the "dominant systems" in the air and will be able to enter the zones of increased enemy air defense in order to strike at critical infrastructure.

You can plan ... different things. It is unlikely that those against whom it can be aimed will sit on ... exactly, will strive to create ... different things that would neutralize this threat as well.

[1Alexey]

Quote: rocket757

You can plan ... different things. It is unlikely that those against whom it can be aimed will sit on ... exactly, will strive to create ... different things that would neutralize this threat as well.

Yes, in these words, in my opinion, there is more advertising. They also need to justify the need for additional funding before Congress.

At one time, they wrote about their F-117 as absolutely invisible, until our old air defense system was shot down in Yugoslavia.

And in fact, you need, firstly, to understand how they plan to ensure the possibility of entering the zones of increased air defense of the enemy and, secondly, what kind of enemy they mean (for example, in the DPRK one level of the zone of increased air defense is completely different in the Russian Federation).

[rocket757]

All the plans there are not for the fact that it would be direct, direct, to fight ... it is also a big financial pyramid, which has little to do with the economy. They live like this, they are used to it and cannot change anything ... they can.

[Klingon]

Quote: Torins

How will a 6th generation fighter be different from a 5th generation fighter? And then all the information that I came across said that the concept and performance characteristics were still at the stage of development.

It will host the first prototype of Cochrane's warp drive and Klingon stealth technology. As well as phasers or disruptors and photon torpedoes, depending on the modification. Mr. Spock won't let you lie

[Nitarius]

The US military intends to receive the latest sixth generation fighter in two versions at once. ------------ one with pedals)) and oars)?

[letovvany]

Something tells me that not everything is so smooth with them. They are very much afraid of Russian weapons, and this is not how a country capable of developing and producing new weapons should behave.

[sen]

This is how some imagine the sixth generation fighter.

[sen]

The current polymer coatings of stealth aircraft have limitations - for example, they can flake off the side, thereby opening it for scanning enemy radars. The new material aims to remove these limitations and make stealth planes truly invisible. In addition, he will change their shape and can affect other features of the aircraft.
The new ceramic coating will provide better protection for stealth aircraft and bombers. It will also change their shape and help increase their speed.
The innovation is still in its infancy, but laboratory tests have shown that the spray can absorb more than 90% of the radar energy, while modern materials absorb only up to 80%.
Scientists at the University of North Carolina have taken all the constraints into account to develop a solution that can be applied to any ship. The end product is a waterproof and durable ceramic coating that can withstand harsh conditions. The new material can also retain its radio-absorbing characteristics at temperatures ranging from -100 to 1800 ° C.
The ceramic is sprayed onto the aircraft. After it is exposed to air, a series of chemical reactions take place that transform the liquid spraying into a durable ceramic coating. The whole process takes one to two days.
The new coating improves not only the "invisible" component. Scientists believe that the future generation of stealth aircraft will become faster and more maneuverable, and will also change their design in favor of technical characteristics (in particular, it will be possible to eliminate exhaust nozzles).
The scientists have now received funding that will allow them to produce and test samples much larger than what they are currently working on. Ultimately, they hope to create a completely new generation of stealth aircraft.
https://zoom.cnews.ru/rnd/article/item/kak_novyj_material_izmenit_formu_samoletovnevidimok

[zwlad]

First let the penguin finish. What is their 6th generation. Fifth, do it first. The jesters are pea.