Project 20386: "fun fun - hard hangover"

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The failure of the scam with the project allegedly "promising corvette and ship of the ocean zone" 20386 is obvious. Its accomplices are looking for how to evade responsibility (for deliberately undermining the combat capability of the Navy, including the failure to ensure the combat stability of the NSNF). This must not be allowed - the guilty must answer.

The other day in the media there was a wave of publications about the stealth corvette 20386 and how unobtrusive it will be. And, as luck would have it, immediately after this wave, it was published statement by the head of the USC A. L. Rakhmanov that "Mercury" instead of entering service can be completed as an experimental ship or vessel.



If, within the framework of our understanding, modern technologies are applied on the corvette, then, in fact, its construction may drag on until these technologies are developed ...
And if we take into account that the ship itself can become an experimental vessel, then it will never [become part of the Navy]. It will plow the sea and develop new technologies ...
If it is a real test vessel, it will be put into operation as a test vessel.

Well, the consequences of this scam are slowly but surely becoming apparent.

This project has been written about several times.

For example, on October 28, 2016, an article by A. Timokhin “Worse than a crime. Construction of the corvettes project 20386 - error "... Or on March 20, 2019 A. Timokhin, M. Klimov “Corvette 20386. Continuation of the scam ».

However, the current situation on this project harshly raises the question of the need to return to this scam again and again.

"Shipwreck of Admiral Chirkov"


I emphasize that the lobbyists of 20386 not only do not have any sane technical arguments, but their actions (since 20386) contradict their own statements and admissions of what the Russian Navy needs, for example:

August 22, 2018, RIA News... Russian frigates of type 22350 and corvettes of project type 20380 should be built in large series, in general, the Russian Navy should have at least 18 frigates, corvettes - 36, said on Wednesday the chief adviser to the President of the United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC), former commander-in-chief of the Russian Navy, Admiral Viktor Chirkov.

And this is declared by the person who is the "dad" not only of the scam from 20386, but also of even more stupid and senseless "modular" patrol ships of Project 22160.

February 12, 2014, FLOT.com. Command of the Naval fleet Russia abandoned the concept of a corvette for the protection of water areas (OVR). Instead, it is planned to create patrol ships. The Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy, Admiral Viktor Chirkov, stated this in a blitz interview to the Central Naval Portal. The main command does not see any prospects in the creation of ships previously designated as the "OVR Corvette". One of the main tasks of the OVR is to ensure the protection and defense of the naval forces in the areas of naval bases and in the adjacent territories. This task is now performed by coastal surveillance equipment, stationary sonar stations and coastal missile and artillery troops armed with anti-ship missiles of various ranges, as well as anti-submarine and strike Aviation... Having abandoned the corvette, the Navy turned to the idea of ​​creating patrol ships - less armed, but with greater autonomy and versatility, capable, among other things, of going on long voyages.

There were no stationary GASs with the required characteristics declared by Chirkov both then and now. The anti-submarine and strike aviation of the Navy was defeated and in fact lost its combat capability against any serious enemy (more on this in one of the next articles). In general, "everyone knows everything." Including the fact that there were persons who, at that time, “lobbied for certain issues” ...

In fact, Chirkov's statement (about "18 frigates and 36 corvettes") is his own "receipt" of the actual fiasco of all his ideas, shipbuilding plans (except for project 22800, which was actually saved by the executors). However, the "shipwreck of Admiral Chirkov" (a catastrophic disruption in shipbuilding in GOZ-2020) does not prevent him from feeling good in the chair of the chief adviser to the USC president.

The genesis of the project 20380 itself is not the topic of the article, although further it is worth returning to it in more detail: the project, with a certain modernization, can still show itself from its best side. It's about his so-called "development". And if the installation of the UKSK for long-range anti-ship missiles, KR and PLUR on the 20385 project can be understood and welcomed, then the epic with the corvette's radar is clearly worthy of the pen of Agatha Christie.

More on this - “Thundering and others. Will our fleet receive effective ships of the near zone ".


The Americans, with their "Pentagon Wars" (see picture), would be envious.

But it turned out even more "fun" with the alleged "development" of 20380, but in fact with a completely new project 20386, "increased" in displacement and price almost to the level of a frigate (with an extremely dubious concept and low combat capabilities). Quote:

January 3, 2015, AN. The fact of the passage of the TTZ at 20386 is known, when Mr. Zakharov, on behalf of Almaz, brought the TTZ to the Central Research Institute of VK, signed with the head and then immediately with the Commander-in-Chief. Naturally, no one from the institute read anything inside. Then. Read later and [deleted - obscene expression].

Project 20386 and its chief designer I. G. Zakharov

This is about the events of the beginning of 2013 I. G. Zakharov, chief designer of project 20386 (and concurrently (in 2012–2014) vice president of USC).

IG Zakharov agrees with V. V. Chirkov TTZ for a new corvette of project 20386 (and bypassing the Navy specialists, it is obvious that the head of the Central Research Institute of VK at the time Zakharov came to him already had the command: "sign").

A piquant moment in this whole situation - at the same time, the commander of the Baltic Fleet reports to V.V. Chirkov about the complete incapacity of the corvettes of project 20380 (Zakharov's brainchild in the position of chief of the 1st Central Research Institute of VK).

Once again about "Zaslon"


In 2010, the developer of the "promising" "super-RLK" with AFAR of the Navy was appointed an organization that had previously developed the most difficult thing - this is ... airfield air conditioners. It immediately receives a generous stream of funding (the abundance of which, to put it mildly, is unparalleled for such developments). At the same time, the really leading AFAR firms in the country - NIIP im. Tikhomirov and "Fazatron" (although the latter at that time had an air target already really shot down from under AFAR).
In the subsequent period of time JSC "Zaslon" made active attempts to enter the subject of aviation radars, but all these attempts ended in fiasco. There is not a single really operating airborne radar with AFAR "Zaslon" (in fact, there is nothing surprising, "on the rake" problems with AFAR (especially thermodynamic), as they say, "bumped" and incomparably much more experienced NIIP and "Fazatron").

At the same time, the persons from the "Zaslon" actively presented others for their developments, for example, the TsNPO "Leninets" (I emphasize, the TsNPO "Leninets" and JSC "Zaslon" (in the past, the STC "Plant Leninets") are completely different organizations and, unlike "Zaslona", TsNPO "Leninets" really has vast experience and authority in matters of radar and aviation systems). Who actually made the radar for the same Tu planes of the latest modifications - you should look at the annual reports of the Leninets Scientific and Production Association. And the role of the "Barrier" here, figuratively speaking, is a wrapper for sweets, which were made by completely different people and organizations.

Despite the repeated postponement of the delivery date of the "Thundering" corvette (project 20385), the MF-RLK actually failed tests at the end of 2020. Although the targets were actually shot down (the 9M96 missiles, which worked there excellently), the conditions for firing were such that the MF-RLK could not be turned on at all (the errors were reliably covered by the deployment of active missile homing heads). We were actually preparing to fire at the console (simulated) target (with the parameters of target missiles).

Immunity of the MF-RLK "Zaslon" against a real threat from the air. And these are exactly the facts! (screen from the video of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation)

Let me emphasize that the author considers the appearance of such details and details of the shooting and combat training of the Navy and the RF Armed Forces in the public domain incorrect. Moreover, a number of persons from the "professional community" asked him that "it is impossible to write in such detail in public." It is logical, but these details were given in the official video of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation (Department of Information and Mass Communications of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation - DIMK), and all these numbers and details were visible and obvious to any specialist (including a foreign one) and, accordingly, were carefully studied by them.

The author wrote a report addressed to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation about, to put it mildly, the strange actions of DIMK, including the question of the presence of real leaks in the materials of DIMK. The answer (from the acting head of DIMK) was in the style of "all is well beautiful marquise":

Everything has been agreed by the specialized specialists of the RF Ministry of Defense

There are also good reasons to believe that in fact the firing at the RM-120 target missile of the Pacific corvette Aldar Tsydenzhapov (artillery from under the MF-RLK) was actually failed.

And the reasons for this failure are quite visible: in the Ministry of Defense video from "Thundering" - a powerful illumination of the center of the screen by the operation of the MF-RLK itself (with a radius of about 3 km) not only excludes the possibility of firing AK-630M (from under the MF-RLK), but also puts very serious questions, because of what such a flare is formed and how this reason influenced the firing accuracy of the medium-caliber AK-190 ...

Actually, it is understandable why the PM15 was "pulled up" for a hundred meters for the "Thundering" (and why they were so afraid to shoot at really low-flying targets).

For specialists (real specialists in the work on NLC and their defeat) everything is clear. That is, the technical problem is at the level of a normal technical meeting, followed by the necessary improvements.

However, the real problems of the MF-RLC are not so much in technology, but in another - in the leadership and its attitude to business.

Obviously, this problem "got out" far not during the shooting of the "Thundering", but immediately (... years ago). It is known that back in 2017, the MF-radar was tested on the shore, at a special stand. Taking this factor into account, bringing the problem not just to the ship, but also to its Gosy, is not just shame and disgrace. This is the complete confidence of the top management of Zaslon that “nothing needs to be done”, because due to PR, lies (allegedly “knocked down” target of “Aldar”) and administrative pressure, in any case and in any form, they will “push” the Ministry of Finance -RLK to the fleet.

As a matter of fact, watch the "news from DIMK" after the shooting of the "Thundering" and, as they say, enjoy. "Facts on the face" ...

I have a simple question for the officers of the Navy (and the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, for example, the Office of Military Representations): how is your officer's honor and just conscience combined with all these supposedly successful tests?

Especially - to the officers who were preparing the RM15 for the Gosov "Thundering" and set the altitude of its flight altitude almost ten times higher than the real anti-ship missiles.

However, with MF-RLK everything turned out to be much more fun, but more on that below.

Insanity of "container modularity"


On this topic, the author has repeatedly written:

"Modules will not save patrolmen";
"What modules do our ships need".

In short: modularity for ships provides both significant opportunities, primarily in terms of modernizing ships, and imposes serious restrictions. For example, in the United States, the modular approach had both a major success (modernization of the Ticonderoga missile launcher and the Spruence EM) and a catastrophic failure on the LCS ships.

Project 20386: "fun fun - hard hangover"

However, the main thing for the Russian Navy was the possibility of effective modernization of the ships of the combat strength. And it was technically quite realistic - the installation of small-sized modules of new systems and complexes.

Instead, we started packing "everything and everything" into 20 and 40-foot containers. The fact that they did not climb on the ships "sawing" these topics did not interest, because they expected even more cutting on "promising special modular ships."

The whole insanity of "modular approaches" in the Russian Navy is especially clearly visible in the example of "modular GAS".

The "original dimensions" "BUGAS" Vignette "(" Minotaur ") are close to those of the western BUGAS. Moreover, in the special literature of the late 2000s, data on work on the "compact Minotaur" (which could be massively installed on ships and small displacement vessels) were given. However, we “buried” all this and tried to “forget firmly”, because the “sawmill whistled” over “modular ships” and “special container modules for them” (I emphasize - obviously such that they could not be put on ships of combat strength and carried out their modernization).

The result of this violence against common sense and engineering personnel is clear:


As the initial data, a section of one of the variants of the export corvette "Tiger" and materials about the "modules" from an article in the "Marine Bulletin" were taken.

As a matter of fact, after such a “creative result” of “containment” it is not at all surprising that the developers of the “modular” 20386 preferred not the “innovative modular-container” BGAS, but the usual one.


And now for comparison: the Western approach to "modular BUGAS".


These are precisely compact stations suitable for installation on small ships and vessels (up to large boats and BEC).

And once again it is worth citing a photo that raises serious questions about the competence and suitability of a number of Navy chiefs (including the head of the Navy's PLB (anti-submarine warfare) service).

This is an Egyptian "big hunter" of Chinese construction (type "Hainan", in fact - project 122 of the USSR, which began to develop at the end of the Great Patriotic War). But with a modern low-frequency BUGAS.


This is what the correct "modular principle" is.

Note, technically and tactically correct, but having a very serious "organizational disadvantage" - a relatively low cost. That is, it is difficult to get a "big cut" on it. Accordingly, the "sheep" of the Navy simply must be shorn both on the huge 40-foot BUGAS and special innovative modular ships on them (and the "compact Minotaur" is buried).

Navy combat readiness?

What is such "combat readiness"?

After all, parades became the main point of "combat training" (in quotation marks).

Once again about comparing 20386 with other serial ships


So, the project 20385 corvette, smaller in displacement and cheaper, had: a helicopter, a UKSK for 8 missiles ("Caliber", "Onyx", in the future "Zircon") and 16 air defense missile systems "Redut". Yes, it lost in maximum speed (while having a much cheaper diesel power plant) and very insignificantly in seaworthiness.

By the way, in connection with the use of turbines for 20386, and did anyone consider the gas turbine 20385?

The much more expensive and large 20386 initially had: 8 Uranium anti-ship missiles (that is, I was not able to use the PLUR and KR - as well as the long-range Turquoise, Onyx and Zircon anti-ship missiles) and the same 16 UVP for Reduta ". 4 "Caliber" in a frankly weak container launcher could only be delivered instead of a helicopter. As the saying goes, "Repin's painting - they sailed."

Even against the background of a very small and formally weak patrol ship of Project 22160 (displacement half as much), Project 20386 looks extremely doubtful: either a 1-foot container or a helicopter. At the same time, at 40, two 22160-foot containers stood up together with a helicopter.


"Thrown" into the water hull "Daring Mercury" project 20386

Comparison with the frigate of project 22350 for 20386 is generally meaningless.

And not only because formally in terms of armament 22350 conceals 20386 as a "bull sheep", but also because as of today the MF-RLK is actually "furniture" (with all the deadlines for completing the ROC long ago disrupted). For it is incapable of solving the tasks for its intended purpose, and the lobbyists of Zaslon, with a “complete lack of conscience,” declare the need to continue generous budget funding in order to “teach” “Zaslon” to shoot down at least something (from questions: what about the state contract , on which a lot of money has already been spent, but the output is only "furniture", these lobbyists are strenuously dodging).

At the same time, the cost of the corvette, which had already “soared” up after the installation of the MF-radar “Zaslon” (project 20385) on it, continued its “vertical take-off” on project 20386, practically catching up with the frigate of project 22350 (which had an order of magnitude greater combat effectiveness than the strange "over-the-top-underfregat" of the project 20386). Moreover, the project 20386 "crosses the road" to the frigate of the project 22350 in the narrowest point of our surface shipbuilding - gearbox production. And here the question already arises: is this stupidity or deliberate sabotage?

And here it is worth quoting once again one of the founders of the 20386 project:

August 22, 2018, RIA Novosti. "In general, the Russian Navy should have at least 18 frigates and 36 corvettes,"

- said on Wednesday the chief adviser to the president of the United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC), former commander-in-chief of the Russian Navy, Admiral Viktor Chirkov.

The most important thing in all this brothel (chaos) is that, finally, having more or less brought a very decent frigate of Project 22350, the organizers and accomplices of the scam from 20386 started to actually replace it in the series (under the "cover" of an "advertising banner" with tsiferkoy 22350M) on the deliberately "drunk" and poor combat characteristics of the project 20386.

Just the glaring shortcomings of the project 20386 caused a "logical" desire of the persons participating in this scam to "eliminate" them (and, of course, under the pretext of this, continue "tasty development of large budget funds" for "themselves beloved"). As a result of this process, in December 2019 in Sevastopol, a "promising ship of the oceanic zone based on project 20386" was presented to the President. More - A. Timokhin “Is alteration of the project 20386 planned?”.


Launchers, yes, they added. UKSK appeared. As for the statement to the president (which the whole country could see on TV at this screening) by Mr. Evmenov about allegedly 32 UVPs for the "Caliber" (including in the nose from the gun mount), then there are two options: either the current Navy Civil Code is not able to distinguish UKSK "Kalibrov" from the UVP ZUR "Redut", or, excuse me, there was a direct and public deception of the first person of the state.

Speaking of deception, it is worth remembering the "juicy details" "Re-bookings" of "Daring Mercury" - a very interesting question: was the President reported on them? Or has the relevant information for the “first person” been “edited correctly” once again?

After all these design and technical (and financial) manipulations, the real price tag of 20386 exceeded that of 22350 (which still significantly exceeds this "nedoproject").

What does the fleet need?


Taking into account that one of the main tasks of the corvette is anti-submarine defense (ASW), the key for the corvette is not just equipping it with effective means of search, but the creation of an effective grouping of forces that really ensures the solution of tasks for the intended purpose (including ASW) in the near the maritime zone (and local areas of the far and ocean, if necessary).

Taking into account, as a rule, the zonal structure of the acoustic field (the presence of zones of "shadow" and "illumination"), the problem in most cases cannot be effectively solved by one powerful hydroacoustic complex (GAC) on a single carrier - a group of ships optimally distributed in the area is required, carriers of the SAC. At the same time, with the transition to such a "network" principle of PLO operation, the requirements (and cost) to the SAC and SAS of individual carriers can be significantly reduced (and their optimization should be carried out at the level of not the carrier, but the grouping of forces in the theater of operations). Moreover, the optimization problem (maximum efficiency at the lowest resource cost) requires a reasonable limitation of the characteristics and cost of individual units to ensure the creation of the necessary grouping.

In this regard, inflating the cost of a separate ship is not only ineffective, it practically excludes any effective solution of the PLO problem. This approach is only suitable for parades, in a real war it will end in defeat.

The issue of mass (and effective - as an element of the grouping of forces in the theater of operations) of the naval corvette is one of the key issues in the navy today. All the technical possibilities for this ("cubes" of complexes and systems) are there. We have all the technical capabilities for the mass construction of efficient ships in the near sea zone. And all acute problems have purely organizational reasons (calling things by their proper names - "snake ball" of intrigues and "interests" of the so-called "respected persons").

Do developers understand this?


I. G. Zakharov, chief designer 20386 (in his own book on corvettes):

The need to create and maintain small corvettes in the fleet is a result of the growth in cost and the increase in the capabilities of multipurpose corvettes.
... The size of the naval personnel of the Navy may be reduced by more than 60% ... The current situation can only be reversed by focusing efforts on solving more clearly defined priority tasks, one of which is the creation of a lower-class corvette and, therefore, less cost. Due to these ships, it will be possible to maintain the required number of surface ships in the fleet.

That is, he understands everything, but does the exact opposite.

Does the Navy understand this?


Two ex-Navy Main Commands are very well settled in the USC. So to speak - "set an example." And this example is well accepted. As it is perceived that even very experienced specialists can have very serious problems with employment "in their specialty" in the defense industry if they show principles of principle (but if "grease on time", then everything will be "ok": both the position and the salary, and more than in service).

As a result of all this, we have in the fleet: a crowd of absolutely worn-out "invalids" (on crutches with an inoperative turbine) of the IPC project 1124M, which have practically completely lost their combat significance (only as targets for the enemy), a small series and have not been brought to a normally combat-ready state of corvettes 20380 and modelki and a large financial cut on the project 20386.


Everything is "normal".

The so-called "respected people" are satisfied, the "sheep" (Navy) is once again shorn. Well, the fact that in the event of a real war the ships of the Navy will drown like kittens - so completely different people (and not those so-called "respected" people) will be responsible for this. And this should be remembered by those who are now responsible for the business and the result and to whom the so-called “respected” again show the “carrot” (or “envelope”) - with the “prospect” of a “soft chair” in their circle.

"Doubtful sauce" "stealth"


As noted earlier, the supporters of 20386 lack any adequate technical arguments. There are only “adjectives”: “modular”, “innovative” and the like about “the introduction of new approaches in ship architecture” (the latter is an integral part of the topic on which budget funds were actively “sawed”). The last "splash" of PR in 20386 was associated with allegedly stealth: "the first stealth ship of the Navy" - the media buzzed at once at once.

Let's disassemble this crafty bogey (in fact, an attempt to close, filling with the sauce of "stealth", all the indecency of the project 20386).

The best answer to the thesis about the "stealth ship" is the fate of the US Navy Sea Shadow, an experimental stealth vessel, which had a really extremely low level of visibility (not only of the hull, but also of wave formation on the water surface), a huge amount of research and special training with it, and in as a result - destroyed.


At the same time, the US Navy did not in any way abandon stealth. The question is its size and place in the complex of combat characteristics of ships. Stealth technologies were massively introduced on serial ships (and previously built ships of the US Navy) with a significant decrease, including in their radar signature.

Similar work was carried out in the Soviet Navy as well. For example, a close examination of the photographs of the superstructures of the BOD project 1155 still shows the presence of the surviving remnants of the special coating ("matting"). Another thing is that it worked in combination with a special paint.

And the key issue of "limited stealth" for ships was that the solution of a number of basic tasks by them is simply incompatible with stealth (for example, air defense and anti-aircraft defense tasks).

Is there a "tactical niche" for really "very stealthy ships" in naval warfare?

Yes there is.

But rather narrow: for example, the solution of shock missions (missile boats (RCA) of the Sköld type of the Norwegian Navy).


For the Russian Navy, such a project has a well-grounded meaning, and the potential of the Almaz Central Marine Design Bureau is quite possible to realize it, if not for one "but": such a "small sea stealth" definitely requires inclined launchers ("anathematized" in our Navy) ...

Beginning of the End


Let us recall once again what the head of the USC A. Rakhmanov said - the ship can be completed as an experimental one, and the time of its construction will depend on the development of "modern technologies", well, or in a simple way: the date of delivery is unknown when, it may not enter the combat strength.

Project 20386: "fun fun - hard hangover."

As they say, "facts on the face" ...

And here it is interesting to look at the reaction on one of the special forums, especially among people "in the subject" and previously seen in active lobbying 20386 (link):

Curious # 11.06.2021/XNUMX/XNUMX. Transferring "Mercury" to the category of OS is a tricky "desire" of the USC, such as an excuse for failing to meet all the deadlines for this order. There is a rumor that some of the contractors cannot even name a specific date for the completion of their development work on the corvette systems, and an experienced bureaucrat Rakhmanov wants to jump off and evade responsibility. And the Navy, as they say, does not care at all.

DM # 12.06.2021/XNUMX/XNUMX. ... the idea of ​​an experimental vessel is not Rakhmanov's. Customers have been pushing it for more than a year. Rakhmanov only voiced.

brazil # 11.06.2021/20386/20386. This is an acknowledgment of the failure of the project 20380. Corvettes 5 wanted a dozen units and stopped new orders 20380 (5). Now there will be a pause in the admission of corvettes 20386 (22350) instead of 20386 to the Navy. In addition, 22350 will also get, because the supply of 27 equipment affects the supply for new orders XNUMX. Only R&D enthusiasts remained in the black: modularity, electric propulsion, etc. Experimental vessel for XNUMX billion The money was mastered and left without ships (sabotage of clean water) ...

WWWW # 11.06.2021. Two former commander-in-chief of the Navy are now working at the USC. The raftsmen do not think about the fleet, but about the future sinecure in the USC, so they agree to ffffffseeeeee !!!

WWWW (lobbyist 20386 with NIO of the Navy) # 11.06.2021/XNUMX/XNUMX ... troubles with the integration of REV are now not into a smart mast, but into an ingenious superstructure.

Translating into normal Russian the “fig leaf” of “the integration of REV into a brilliant superstructure” (it was said with obvious “irony through clenched teeth”), we again come to “Zaslon” with its “innovative wunderwaffe” - IBMK MF-RLK.

And now for the latest serial 20380 (5).

Hulls of the corvettes "Strict" and "Mercury" at the Northern Shipyard (Curious, http://www.balancer.ru)

Quote (link):

Bashkirhan # 11.06.2021/XNUMX/XNUMX Curious posted a photo of "Mercury" on the next branch, so its neighbor on the left is "Strict". When the "Strict" is at least put in the boathouse and the composite superstructure, which was delivered to the shipyard long ago, is installed on the hull, then you can start to rejoice.

Igor_FarEast # 11.06.2021/XNUMX/XNUMX Sadness is sad. With "Mercury" it is understandable, but why "Strict" with "Zealous" are fumbling? Especially Zealous. Almost ready. Long ago. ASZ "Aldara" has already passed and almost finished "Sharp". They have the same components.

WWWW # 11.06.2021. Are you sure? Now they are strange with REV (Zaslonovskaya mast). There seems to be as many ships as there are variants of this miracle!

It turns out "fun" (in quotes) - in fact, we have not only failures with 20386, state tests of "Thundering" and "Aldar Tsydenzhapov" (for more details - Leaky umbrella of the fleet. Technical analysis of the "Thundering" firing), but also just the ability to mass-produce this "miracle-Yudo" MF-RLK, to put it mildly - "under a very serious question" ...

And there can be only one conclusion from all this: this time the perpetrators (for deliberately undermining the combat capability of the Russian Navy and Armed Forces, including the failure to ensure the combat stability of the NSNF) must answer, and in full. At least posts.
Unfortunately, the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation does not contain an article about deliberate sabotage and actions to undermine the country's defense capability, there is only "negligence". However, this is not "negligence"! What has been going on with us on the subject of corvettes since the mid-2000s is precisely the deliberate action to "use" huge budgetary funds by undermining the country's defense capability.

The specialists perfectly understood everything, reported to the management (that is, they knew everything perfectly) and even wrote on public resources:

AN 16.11.2006 (i.e. fifteen years ago):
Criticism of project 20380 ... nobody cares, but how, in fact, these, no doubt, excellent missiles will fly in the absence of a radio correction line and disgusting target designation from "Fourke" ... So to speak, according to the "fire and forget" scheme. About what!! About the goal? Or about a rocket? .. The developers of the air defense missile system diligently bypass all sharp corners, such as: how will your missile defense system see the target in case of target designation errors in the region of 1 degree? The answer is to see, ... and so on.

Well, the last "cherry on the cake."

As it was officially announced, the construction of new corvettes was an order of the President of the Russian Federation. Despite the conclusion of state contracts on them (to report - to the Administration of the President of the Russian Federation), their laying has not been made so far (due to the "pitfalls" and "mines" of the project, which the author and A. Timokhin wrote about, and first of all - the Ministry of Finance -RLK "Zaslon").

In fact, we have a clear, obvious and public sabotage of the instructions of the President of the Russian Federation and issues of the country's defense capability. And here the question already arises - does the “vertical of power” generally work in our country? Where are those who are obliged to "watch"? Or are they "shoelaces considering"? While all this is going on (and heading for a new Tsushima)?

What they are now trying to do with 20386 with his transfer to an experimental vessel is a direct attempt by the accomplices of everything that happened to him - to evade responsibility.

There is a state contract for the creation of the ship, and if you please show the result.

No result (in the form of a warship capable of actually solving tasks as intended)? And what was the money spent on?

But, it turns out, the specialists knew all the viciousness of this project and scam at once, and they reported?

Then, excuse me, there are very specific questions to very specific officials. In the plane of the "relevant code". And they are obliged to bear the corresponding responsibility. There are, excuse me, structures that are obliged to “keep vigil” (and simply “objectively report to the top”, including to the “first person” about the real situation).

As for the "Daring Mercury" - the fleet has a critical situation with the ship's personnel. Accordingly, “to forgive sins” and write off “on the mouse” a potential warship would be a mistake worse than a crime.

Now the key problem of "Mercury" is the MF-RLC "Zaslon".

Accordingly, the solution is technically very simple, but organizationally - excruciatingly difficult (you must show adherence to the so-called "respected people"): throw the MF-RLK "Zaslon" off the ship (with replacement for serial and actually working REV).

After all the forgeries and failures of the "tests" of the "Barrier" on the "Thundering" and "Aldar Tsydenzhapov", there is every reason for this.

Yes, the 20386 series is not needed (because it crosses the road of the 22350 series, and it is the project 22350 frigate that needs to be forced as much as possible in the series). But with the replacement of the MF-RLK with actually working REV - "Mercury" will be in the ranks of the Navy. And he will find a job.
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  1. +32
    22 June 2021 09: 12

    The failure of the scam with the project allegedly "promising corvette and ship of the ocean zone" 20386 is obvious.
    uryakalka do not read ... paralyzes. but for more than 20 years. Our Ministry of Defense does not have a clear concept, neither in naval aviation, nor in ships, everything is complicated, everything is stuck, there is no money everywhere, but there are a lot of dummies, from an aircraft carrier to a nuclear destroyer.
    1. +22
      22 June 2021 09: 21
      Quote: Dead Day
      everything is complicated, everything is stalling, there is no money everywhere

      This is you without thinking. There is money, but who needs it now. Also at the expense of the "personal instructions of the president" on corvettes. So after the May decrees of all sorts of years, everyone understands that you can just send and not be particularly shy, still nothing will happen. But the money will grow.
      1. +10
        22 June 2021 09: 51
        Quote: NDR-791
        Also at the expense of the "personal instructions of the president" on corvettes.

        The old Soviet IPCs are rotting, but they are still holding on. There is no OVR corvette to replace them, the topic was covered in the early 2010s under Commander-in-Chief Chirkov.

      2. The comment was deleted.
    2. +27
      22 June 2021 09: 46
      The power vertical works only in relation to the people. The bosses are not subject to jurisdiction by definition. What about the presidential decrees in May I don’t remember for what year? We don't abandon ours? Are they generally ours or foreign agents?
      For such damage to the country's defense, massive plantings of guilty irresponsible persons are needed.
      1. +9
        22 June 2021 12: 35
        Quote: Bearded
        For such damage to the country's defense, massive plantings of guilty irresponsible persons are needed.

        It's too late now. Now, in order to correct the situation with the king, you need to start.

        He and only he is a source of irresponsibility and corruption in significant places. Well, how could it be otherwise in the kumov country, where only their own and not amenable people sit in warm places!
    3. +18
      22 June 2021 10: 05

      And what, according to project 20386, will the Soviet and Russian naval leader, vice admiral, laureate of the State Prize of the Russian Federation, candidate of technical sciences Viktor Iosifovich Buruk say?
      1. +10
        22 June 2021 11: 52
        There is a letter from him, I posted it on VO.
        1. +7
          22 June 2021 12: 16
          Quote: timokhin-aa
          There is a letter from him, I posted it on VO.

          I would like to briefly about "all is well beautiful marquise" winked
          1. +11
            22 June 2021 13: 03
            https://topwar.ru/174057-pobeda-zdravogo-smysla-korvety-vozvraschajutsja-poka-dlja-tihookeancev.html

            The article contains a letter from Bursuk.
            I must say that the corvettes, about which the article was written, have not yet been laid. And precisely because of the "Barrier".
            1. +4
              22 June 2021 14: 49
              Alexander, is there an alternative to Zaslon that is quick to launch into the series?
              1. +5
                22 June 2021 23: 03
                See article "Thundering and others" by Klimov, link in the text is
              2. +1
                23 June 2021 06: 01
                There is an alternative and it is in the series. Klimov has written about this more than once in detail, in previous publications.
    4. +36
      22 June 2021 10: 16
      The author tears his soul for the Motherland, and people without honor and conscience will tell him that he is rocking the boat.
      1. +18
        22 June 2021 11: 02
        Quote: sot
        and people without honor and conscience will tell him that he rocks the boat.

        yacht ... has long been a yacht ...
        1. +29
          22 June 2021 11: 57
          Quote: Dead Day
          for a long time already a yacht ...

          Yacht Dilbar, try rocking. In 2016, Alisher Usmanov finally got up from his knees and ordered this beauty.
          1. +13
            22 June 2021 12: 50
            Quote: Bashkirkhan
            Yacht Dilbar, try rocking. In 2016, Alisher Usmanov finally got up from his knees and ordered this beauty.

            Our elite grandmother saws in Russia on dubious projects. And then for this loot of a yacht, the size of a frigate, at the price of a destroyer, they order themselves. By no means at enterprises in Russia and not at the chief designer Zakharov, but in the West (at the Germans). And they spat on import substitution!
            And who will say something against them? Well, not a king!
            1. +11
              22 June 2021 12: 53
              Quote: Stas157
              Our grandmother elite saws

              Are you sure this is your elite?
              1. +3
                22 June 2021 18: 16
                Bashkirkhan, I congratulate you! Your comment from the airbase even got into Klimov's article)))
                1. 0
                  26 June 2021 13: 29
                  Quote: Dante
                  Bashkirkhan, I congratulate you! Your comment from the airbase even got into Klimov's article)))

                  hi Klimov and Timokhin take their "insider" from the forum of the "naval" airbase. My commentary is just a statement of fact, if Maxim considered it necessary to display it, this is his vision. Log in at sea and chat if you are interested in ships. They are mainly commented by competent comrades, in contrast to VO, where there are few really interesting comments.
                  1. +1
                    27 June 2021 00: 06
                    They are mainly commented by competent comrades, in contrast to VO, where there are few really interesting comments.

                    When everything was different before, but now, unfortunately, many have left the resource or switched to the category of "readers". Sorry...
      2. avg
        +7
        22 June 2021 11: 06
        It is especially sad to read about it today.
    5. +5
      22 June 2021 11: 00
      there is no negligence without dressing gowns (the article of the Criminal Code does not apply), there are costumes - and this is an effective managment.
    6. +10
      22 June 2021 12: 45
      Quote: Dead Day
      but for more than 20 years. Our Ministry of Defense does not have a clear concept, neither in naval aviation, nor in ships, everything is complicated, everything is stalling, there is no money everywhere, but there are a lot of dummies, from an aircraft carrier to a nuclear destroyer.

      The problem is that there is money. And with their optimal spending, even within the existing budget, it was possible to close at least BMZ at the bases.
      But due to the constant shuffling of the Navy, most of this money was spent on the wrong side.
    7. 0
      22 June 2021 17: 38
      Tired (I mildly paraphrased it) you with your attitude to "URA". What do you dislike about shouting "Hurray"? What kind of humiliation? Do you want to go on the attack shouting "Alya - Ulyu"? Ugh, my God ... I don't know how to explain ... well, you don't like these people - call them scum, idiots or something else. But what has the cry of "Hurray" with which millions of Slavs went on the attack and died for thousands of years? Or maybe you want to belittle both?
      1. -3
        22 June 2021 18: 56
        Sergey, the comment is not for you, he is just closer to the readers. I read all (probably) comments, well, I almost dropped a tear ... How many people are crying for the fleet and even more who found guilty ones ... One question, where were you? Why was it allowed? So why wave fists under nicknames?
    8. -6
      22 June 2021 22: 44
      Well, if you remember that at one time Klimov actively stated that they would not build 20380 more, as well as 20385, and that only 20386 would be built ... especially considering that almost 2 days later they announced an order for additional. series 20380/20385, and the fail with the "missile was not shot down", but in fact was shot down, then you must always carefully monitor what he writes .. there is not a weak share of ego and emotions .. than facts ..
      1. +1
        23 June 2021 13: 01
        Well, how many corvettes have we laid since those times?
        1. -1
          24 June 2021 16: 22
          wink you know no worse than me how much is pledged and how much is under control, while the Six never received the "big series" promised by Klimov .. So here, in fact, everything is simple - Klimov had an idea, the idea turned out to be false, but for some reason everything is now decided to save his "great" reputation .. well, the truth is, it's no longer funny that he screwed up for the first time
          1. 0
            2 July 2021 23: 30
            Quote: Barberry25
            wink you know no worse than me how much is pledged and how much is under control, while the Six never received the "big series" promised by Klimov .. So here, in fact, everything is simple - Klimov had an idea, the idea turned out to be false, but for some reason everything is now decided to save his "great" reputation .. well, the truth is, it's no longer funny that he screwed up for the first time

            I don't know about Klimov. However, I see that there is a place to sabotage the development of the Russian Navy. Mossy sabotage.
            1. 0
              3 July 2021 00: 15
              laughing this is not sabotage, these are different admirals, different shipyards and different wishlist .. well, an epic fail with engines ..
  2. +3
    22 June 2021 09: 18
    In the navy, like in football ...
    In football, like in the navy ...
    And money - bye-bye ... request
    Who else would answer for that ?!
    Great Russia, and there is no one to ask .... everyone is stealing.
    1. +9
      22 June 2021 09: 24
      Quote: prior
      but there is no one to ask .... everyone is stealing.

      Well, why are you so imprudent. Do not steal, do not steal !!! Save funds from senseless waste !!! Any manager will explain this to you as twice two.
    2. +1
      22 June 2021 09: 47
      When the team left without a single supporting defender, and the left full-back of the climacteric age was appointed as the right central defender) in the common people such a tactical arrangement is called "football" and all the goals came just from the support zone) this is an incomprehensible genius of a bald barbel or a vile provocation, this is already dealt with experts)
      But, most likely, they will again write off everything on the old lover of losing money on the TV presenters) crap and not enough will to win, they will say again)
      1. 0
        22 June 2021 11: 02
        payment for baltic pipe and for completion of SP2 .............

        ............................................... all is fair ...
    3. +2
      22 June 2021 11: 03
      Quote: prior
      In the navy, like in football ...
      In football, like in the navy ...

      juicy ... juicy ...
  3. +6
    22 June 2021 09: 23
    The author swore heavily, and rightly so ... it would still be useful. The impression is that they are not afraid of anything.
  4. +3
    22 June 2021 09: 29
    Thank you for the article.

    the potential of the Almaz Central Marine Design Bureau allows it to be fully realized, if not for one “but”: such a “small sea stealth” definitely requires inclined launchers (“anathematized” in our Navy).
    And why are Uranians launched? The height of the turn to the course of the same Onyx is about 50 m, it is unlikely that it will be noticed from 100 km.
    1. +7
      22 June 2021 11: 48
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      The height of the turn to the course of the same Onyx is about 50 m, it is unlikely that it will be noticed from 100 km.

      It was about a boat, so the problem is not even noticeable: a small vessel simply does not have enough under-deck space to accommodate a TLU with "Onyx". But "Uranus" for a boat looks quite a logical option, especially for small waters like the Baltic.
      1. +1
        22 June 2021 12: 24
        Quote: Kalmar
        It was about a boat, so the problem is not even noticeable: a small vessel simply does not have enough underdeck space to accommodate a TLU with "Onyx"

        TLUs (9 m) easily fit into the superstructure. And the boat that is in the photo, such an arrangement would be quite possible, judging by the figure of the sailor.

        So the author had in mind exactly the height of the rocket's turn, the higher this height, the lower the stealth.
        1. +5
          22 June 2021 13: 13
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          TLU (9 m) fit easily into the superstructure

          The superstructure is not empty, there is also a lot of useful things. We'll have to increase its horizontal dimension, and this is not a minus of visibility.

          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          So the author had in mind exactly the height of the rocket's turn, the higher this height, the lower the stealth.

          The question is how important this is in the case of a boat. The main thing for him is to secretly approach, and after firing missiles, he will simply skedaddle back under the cover of his own, taking advantage of a significant advantage in speed.
          1. +1
            22 June 2021 13: 44
            Quote: Kalmar
            The superstructure is not empty, there is also a lot of useful things. We'll have to increase its horizontal dimension, and this is not a minus of visibility.

            It was about height, height allows.

            Quote: Kalmar
            The main thing for him is to secretly approach, and after firing missiles, he will simply skedaddle back under the cover of his own, taking advantage of a significant advantage in speed.
            Well, this means all the more, the height of the anti-ship missiles is not important, by the way, the Norwegian boat anti-ship missile is about a classmate of Uranus, and Uranus is launched from inclined launchers, among other things. On the other hand, Onyx is twice as long and five times heavier, but the VPU will allow it to fit on a boat or MRK, taking into account the superstructure. 3 * 2 meters and here are 6 heavy rockets on board.
        2. 0
          23 June 2021 13: 43
          UKSK - 9,5 m, but the point is not only what kind of boat it will fit on, but also what excitement at sea will not give your boat the opportunity to launch something from the UKSK. wink
          1. 0
            23 June 2021 15: 02
            Quote: Alex777
            UKSK - 9,5 m, but the point is not only what kind of boat it will fit on, but also what excitement at sea will not give your boat the opportunity to launch something from the UKSK.

            Well, half a meter plus, the height of the boat was also determined by eye, and as for the excitement, so the inclined launchers have limitations on the wave.
            1. 0
              24 June 2021 08: 17
              And as for the excitement, the inclined PUs have limitations on the wave.

              That is why it makes sense to place the UKSK not on boats, but on ships of the corresponding displacement.
              Our Buyans can be dispersed along the rivers, therefore this parameter is not so critical for them. hi
              1. 0
                24 June 2021 08: 22
                Quote: Alex777
                That is why it makes sense to place the UKSK not on boats, but on ships of the corresponding displacement.

                Does this mean that big rockets have no place on boats?
                Active means of calming pitching were not invented yesterday, by the way they are on norgs.
                1. +1
                  24 June 2021 08: 59
                  For boats, as far as I understand, it all depends on the conditions of their use.
                  Therefore, I wrote about Buyany and rivers / lakes.
                  And the effectiveness of roll stabilizers is not unlimited and also depends on VI.
                  In a motorboat that does not stick out - it will still be thrown into the sea on the waves. wink
  5. +12
    22 June 2021 09: 38
    This is quite an example of the state of affairs in the country. The fleet has bright objects for discussion and groups of people who can actively participate in the discussion on forums or elsewhere - and nevertheless such a cut-and-paste - like we spat on you all, we have everything seized and cut into all the right people. Well, that's the way it is. And totally across the country - how many projects in different sectors are intended to cut the budget? Can you imagine such a mess? Yes, quite enough, it is enough to recall the colonels, deputies, governors who were caught with record bribes. And to understand why they were caught - not all or the wrong ones were included in the cutting schemes, they were not shared. And they would share it as it should and now they would continue to "master" the budget money.
    1. +6
      22 June 2021 11: 04
      would share as it should and now would continue to "master" budget money.
      BUDGET AND NEEDED FOR DEVELOPMENT. Not for spending on reporting to control bodies and on the people
  6. +6
    22 June 2021 09: 45
    What has been going on with us on the subject of corvettes since the mid-2000s is precisely the deliberate action to "use" huge budget funds by undermining the country's defense capability.
    - and then it turns out there is money, otherwise we constantly have no money.
    1. +13
      22 June 2021 12: 58
      YOU are a tragedy - we had money for the fleet
      1. +1
        23 June 2021 02: 43
        Thank you Alexander for the article! You are doing the right thing and the right thing!
        Good luck, courage and patience!
        1. +2
          23 June 2021 13: 02
          The author of this article is not me, I just posted it
  7. The comment was deleted.
  8. -14
    22 June 2021 10: 50
    These emotions of yours about "stealing everything" and passing through will instantly disappear, if we assume (and it is) that in the Russian Federation, in fact, there is a dual power - on the one hand, Putin and a few patriotic officials, and on the other, the owners of villas in Portugal and offshore accounts.
    And you need to change not officials and generals-admirals (they, by the way, are the only practical ones, are directly subject to Putin's power, for those restorations who think that Putin is omnipotent and has absolute power in the Russian Federation) but the system !!!
    To begin with, the colonial constitution (maid by USAID) - Art. 2, 5.2, 6.3, 9.1-2, 12, 13.2, 15.4 !! and others.
    1. +2
      22 June 2021 20: 56
      The only business comment and so many cons? Are these bots?
      1. +5
        23 June 2021 06: 28
        Quote: Chugunkin Klim
        in the Russian Federation, in fact, there is a dual power - on the one hand, Putin and a few patriotic officials

        But this is the assessment of the work of this "one side", which, having made a path from the nationwide trust ("Crimea is ours," "we do not abandon our own"), through bewilderment (pension reform, new taxes, extortions and riot of officials), logically came ( side) to indifference and contempt ... at best.
        What the job is, so is the score.
        "The president of Russia is not responsible for anything." request
        The tale of the "good king" and the thin boyars remained a fairy tale.
    2. +4
      23 June 2021 02: 40
      These emotions of yours about "stealing everything" and passing through will instantly disappear, if we assume (and it is) that in the Russian Federation, in fact, there is a dual power - on the one hand, Putin and a few patriotic officials, and on the other, the owners of villas in Portugal and offshore accounts.

      Only naive people believe in this tale. I remember the once almighty oligarch Khodorkovsky was dealt with very quickly, it was just Putin's desire.

      Now in the oligarchs and at the helm of all significant ministries and state-owned companies, only his closest friends, the governors in the regions, are almost all of his loyal servants.
      And the only thing that interferes with putting things in order and stopping the theft is that he personally and his friends, dear people, are involved in this theft and sawing off.
      As soon as you understand this, everything falls into place. It becomes clear why there is no money for the necessary things, and as much as necessary for muddy schemes. This is the case not only in the navy, but everywhere, throughout our country.
    3. ban
      +2
      23 June 2021 08: 39
      Putin and a few patriotic officials


      Smiled
  9. avg
    +9
    22 June 2021 11: 01
    Quote: Dead Day
    for over 20 years. our Ministry of Defense does not have a clear concept, neither in naval aviation, nor in ships

    It is time to introduce the death penalty for the deliberate undermining of combat effectiveness and sabotage. The very existence of such an article will make many "respected people" think. Yes, and admirals with generals do not fucking do in commercial structures.
    1. +2
      22 June 2021 21: 01
      Yes, you can’t enter it here. Because we have "generally recognized norms" of international law .. Above, the person wrote and brought the points.
    2. +2
      23 June 2021 10: 39
      But how can they put themselves in prison? what
  10. +2
    22 June 2021 11: 21
    As for me, this is not so much an example of theft, betrayal, etc. how many an example of the wretchedness of analytics, it turns out the following:
    we have technologies, we have engineers, we have scientists, but we do not have intelligent analysts (within the General Staff of the Navy) who would justify "why it is necessary this way, and not this way, that way or that way"
  11. -2
    22 June 2021 11: 31
    powerful illumination of the center of the screen by the operation of the MF-RLK itself (with a radius of about 3 km) not only excludes the possibility of firing the AK-630M (from under the MF-RLK)

    Then the target at "100 m" was taken from more than 25 km winked from the photo.
    There is a multi-band radar and the author himself wrote about this, at short distances there may be a different picture. It is not correct to judge by a blurry photo. It's just that the author doesn't like Zaslon, we realized that long ago. Yes
    Recently Calm and Thor were shooting: is there a photo at what height was the interception? Or what is the detection range? Well, or maybe the United States laid out something like that (the given curve of firing from the guns is not serious) or Japan? Then yes, it would be interesting to compare.
  12. +7
    22 June 2021 12: 43
    Where are those who are obliged to "watch"?

    They are busy. Business is covered. Well, they reveal the dissatisfied, who have the audacity to go out to rallies,a boat the yacht is rocked, you see.
  13. +16
    22 June 2021 12: 46

    In the meantime, little Denmark and a frigate may have been able to play football. It is terribly insulting that it is so and not otherwise in his native country. One mat. Checkmate
  14. -16
    22 June 2021 13: 49
    Phew, idiot sits on idiot. We'll have to chew from the standpoint of common sense.

    So. We split the fleet into two parts:

    1. "coastal zone plus / minus"
    2. "ocean plus / minus"

    Let's start right away with patient # 2. Why is modern Russia not even a candle to the USSR? Well, because the USSR was really a superpower with all that it implies. What does it mean? And this means exactly that in the event of a war, the Russian oceanic surface fleet has not only an unparalleled wildly losing ratio in terms of the number of combat units (and quality) in comparison with the sum of the USA + Britain + France?, But also ... we do not have naval bases scattered across the vastness of the world's oceans. The USSR had many bases. Moreover, these bases could really be counted on in the event of a war. At the moment, Russia does not have a single one (it still has to get to Syria).

    Therefore, at present, investing in large projects is a utopia. It is, of course, necessary, but the money is all going somewhere, it is simply not there.

    The submarine fleet is yes. We can, we want, there is a design backlog since the times of the USSR. It should be built, if there is any extra penny.

    Now let's go.

    1. Coastal area. We will assume that this is plus or minus 1000 km. It is obvious that the Baltic, the Black Sea, Islands in the Far East, the Caspian Sea, the North Seas are, in theory, the zone of application of this class. Now let's add to this 1000 km - another 2000 km - the range of the.

    So what do we have? And we have exactly the fact that the ships of the "coastal" zone can reach almost all real and potential enemies, with the exception of the United States.

    2. Modularity and containers. Not a bad idea, right. Just need to put things in order in the minds of idiots. We remove the word "modularity", because it is cloudy.

    a) it is simply incomprehensible to the mind how the thesis appeared that long missiles of the "container type" are not needed for the "container" project 20386. This is an obvious sabotage.
    b) what the hell is the goat button accordion? Since this project is "coastal", then
    - what the fuck is there a helicopter? Is it not destiny to have all this dregs on the shore? Instead of a helicopter, you need to have a couple of underwater drones and everything you need to hunt for large numbers of submarines.
    - fuck on such a small dwarf ship to pile up powerful radars, if from the shore / drones / aviation radars / etc. you can beat all this much better. Much.
    - fuck on such a small ship, this yaldak-gun. What place has nowhere to go? Remove this vestige.
    - Protection. As I already commented, we should limit ourselves to the Carapace system for the bow and stern. Which will, on occasion, perform the functions of this gun.
    - Short-range air defense. Only for self-defense against enemy air raids. This class of ships should not have such a responsible and burdensome function as air defense. This is a different topic.
    - Increase the number of honeycombs for Calibers, Zircons. Much. This is the trick: long arms on agile and small devices.

    3. These vessels must be fast. Noise in this case is secondary.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. -10
        22 June 2021 15: 14
        ))) I would even say, given the length of the post, the Soviet Union goes three times!

        There is a saying about wolves in ram's clothing, but rams are more common - in wolf's clothing. A very dangerous species. They do not (as a rule) have anything to say articulately in essence.
  15. +8
    22 June 2021 14: 47
    Bashkirkhan, dear, you and the author are troublemakers and free-thinkers! It's high time you were stripped of your rank and officer ranks for your Voltairean speeches! It was only on June 19 that the media rang out victoriously that the MPK Onega and Naryan-Mar discovered the Dmitry Donskoy nuclear submarine in the White Sea and conditionally destroyed it, and then they worked on the RBU in a square and successfully repelled the conditional attack of the imaginary enemy aircraft. And on June 22, both of you are about the fact that Soviet IPCs are rotting and there is no replacement for them ... In the summer of 2004, I happened to get one of these IPCs when it was in the dock for repairs at Krasnaya Kuznitsa in Arkhangelsk. The crew dreamed of modernizing the ship, but it was slightly touched up ... 17 years have passed, and there has been no modernization, and there are no well-deserved ships, and no replacement is foreseen. Sad ...
    1. +3
      22 June 2021 17: 12
      With modernization in the USSR it was not very much, and even in the Russian Federation)))))))
  16. +2
    22 June 2021 15: 27
    thanks to the dear Maxim Klimov for the questions raised and specific proposals, ... and I hope that measures will be taken to ensure the combat effectiveness of corvettes .... a question to dear Klimov, or maybe even close the series of corvettes by completing the existing ones, how they closed the series of RTOs, and go to the scheme four types of surface ships, 1 frigates like Gorshkov 2 Karakurt PLO (MPK) 3 minesweepers 4 MDK Serna and Dugong? large series and unification will turn out
  17. +5
    22 June 2021 15: 40
    Urapatriots and shapkozakidatem such reading is harmful. The mind will boil with inconsistencies.
  18. +1
    22 June 2021 16: 09
    Maxim, good afternoon / evening.
    If Barrier is so bad, what are your options? I remember from my sofa about Phazotron only in connection with the AFAR for the MiG-29, which is still not available for the Russian Federation or for export. IMHO it is no better.
    Snow leopard derivatives or Proteins? Timokhin can also answer if he is not rude.
  19. +7
    22 June 2021 20: 10
    The author is right about one thing, although he does not say it out loud, any project of a new ship should include only tested samples and weapons systems. The situation with "Poliment-Redoubt" earlier and now with "Zaslon" is difficult to imagine in air defense waxes (VKS). No one would put on a position, and even more so on combat duty, an air defense system or radar that does not correspond to the declared performance characteristics. Warranty service and repairs from the manufacturer are provided for a sample of weapons for several years or until a certain service life is reached at its expense. Why does the navy allow themselves to turn the combat units of ships under construction into home-made designers for equipment suppliers under the guidance of effective managers and disrupt all conceivable commissioning dates?
  20. -2
    23 June 2021 00: 40
    Quote: NDR-791
    Quote: Dead Day
    everything is complicated, everything is stalling, there is no money everywhere

    This is you without thinking. There is money, but who needs it now. Also at the expense of the "personal instructions of the president" on corvettes. So after the May decrees of all sorts of years, everyone understands that you can just send and not be particularly shy, still nothing will happen. But the money will grow.


    Tsarist decrees are sown through the boyar sieve!
  21. +1
    23 June 2021 07: 11
    Yes Timokhin with Klimov, did not expect from you!
    You blame everything on Chirkov, and who is the owner of the Barrier. Friends of Putin on Sobchak and Zubkov only in the comments I do not learn from you !!!
    1. +5
      23 June 2021 13: 03
      Nobody wants to put VO under the hammers. And the owners of the Zaslon google in 5 minutes
  22. +2
    23 June 2021 09: 29
    The situation resembled an epic with a dynamo-reactive weapon, actively promoted by Bonapartist Tukhachevsky, before the Second World War. There are the same orders, prizes, benefits, spent in vain means. Not cutting, of course, the system did not allow, but it looks like. Sorted it out and to the wall
    And the GK eyewear and the roof.
    Of course, it was easier then, Iosif Vissarionych and Lavrenty Palych did not have friends, except for Soviet athletes and pioneers.
    1. 0
      10 July 2021 23: 11
      With dynamo-rocket cannons, the situation was slightly different: this, including recoillessness. And there was no need to replace (attribute) the recoilless properties to the normal rifled one.
      1. 0
        12 July 2021 10: 11
        It was necessary, as soon as possible, to create a new effective weapon. War is on the doorstep. Throwing in folk remedies without a quick return is a crime. Including for this Bonaparte was put from the wall.
  23. 0
    23 June 2021 10: 06
    Very informative and tough! You read and regret that now is not the beginning of the 50s. I just want to smear some green stuff on the forehead.
  24. -4
    23 June 2021 10: 13
    Another tearful epic from Comrade Klimov - prepare handkerchiefs for snot and soothing drops for everyone only without hysterics
  25. +2
    23 June 2021 12: 00
    In one word "Putirasty"
    But I advise the author to be careful. They can find an "American" passport under the bed or write it down to the agents.
    Putinomics, sir.
  26. -8
    23 June 2021 15: 31
    In the comments, one nagging, already sick.

    For any reason, they insert their own in everything the authorities and the oligarchs are to blame))).

    Maybe someone forgot, but in 1998 the country defaulted !!! But your first order of business was to build a hundred corvettes in the mid-2000s ?!

    And why would Usianov not buy a yacht for himself, he has money, he would build a yacht in Russia, he would buy a Russian one.

    All of you whiners on Zhiguli only go and rest exclusively at Russian resorts ?!


    I do not see any trouble in completing Project 20386 as an experimental vessel, other countries are creating ships with the lowest ESR, so why don't we work in this direction too ?!

    And according to RLC and why money is allocated to those who have never dealt with them, and specialized enterprises do not, of course, need to figure it out.
    1. 0
      24 June 2021 08: 41
      No, the hard workers are to blame. They didn’t understand the crooked plan and did nothing. The funds received from the sale of mineral resources, “national treasure,” and nothing else, are being plundered. Why not dig what Usianov canal, if he returns what was stolen, of course?
      You decided that you shot a little of the tanks and everything is in order, went the margin?
      The last 25 years have shown how ineffective capitalism is for the development of the state and society. It must be changed, dissolved, dismembered and debilitated.
      1. -4
        24 June 2021 15: 27
        Really?!

        Maybe you forgot, I will remind you that the USSR also sold resources - oil, gas, metals, timber, fertilizers, but at the same time for the citizens of the USSR there was not enough of EVERYTHING, starting with food. The ass with the newspaper survived !!!

        Do you consider this an achievement?

        And in 1962 in the USSR they shot a spontaneous rally of workers who just wanted to be able to feed their children for their wages !!!

        Is this an achievement of socialism?

        Are these indicators of the effectiveness of the system that for 75 years has brought the people to poverty and destroyed the state?

        When they begin to tell me about the "wonderful past" I am tempted to burp.

        How can one be a hypocrite to praise the economic and political system of the USSR, which destroyed our state without war?

        I look and the desire to indicate to whom and what to dig are not lost.

        Aren't you afraid of thundering under such a skating rink and digging canals and mines until your last breath?
        1. +1
          24 June 2021 18: 30
          There is nothing to discuss here. All your arguments are lies. Who do you want to sniff this liberal-bourgeois dregs, I was born, lived, defended the USSR and consider myself its citizen to this day. Your power is usurpers, who shot the Soviet power lawfully elected by the people. And we will also talk with you when the time comes. The irrepressible appetite of the backbones will sooner or later lead to the inevitability of their utilization.
          I myself am not afraid to get under such a rink. All my life I lived honestly, worked hard from dawn to dawn, and I hate the cunning ass to receive a lot of those who want benefits, and give the country a lot.
          And at the expense of the newspaper I will reveal a secret, in 73, in France, I personally observed how it was used for the same purposes. Each time has its own standard of living, only for everyone, not a bunch of freaks.
          1. 0
            25 June 2021 14: 25
            What lies?

            The shooting of workers in Novocherkassk in 1962?

            And judging by the fact that in 1973 you were in France and at the same time remained a citizen of the USSR, I suppose that your standard of living was much higher than that of the average Soviet citizen. And you made a reservation in special stores, where ordinary Soviet citizens were simply not allowed !!!

            Is this higher equality ?! Is this justice ?!

            Yes, current capitalism is much fairer than the administrative economy that was created in the USSR.

            And if a Frenchman wiped himself with a newspaper in 1943, then this is clearly some kind of rare case, since there was no deficit in France at that time, but in the USSR there was also a newspaper, because a mighty country under the leadership of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union could not provide the necessary means of hygiene to its population !!!

            Your time for populists and mediocrities will never come again, no matter how beautiful slogans you hide behind, you are responsible for the habitation of the people and the collapse of my Motherland - the USSR !!!
            1. +1
              26 June 2021 21: 10
              I went in for sports and was at competitions in Marseille. And my family lived on a small salary of a mother, a teacher in a kindergarten and a pension for the loss of a breadwinner, a father who perished with the MiG in the Syrian empty.
              And I defended our homeland, the USSR, in 93 with weapons in my hands. It is not my fault, like many honest communist workers.
              1. -1
                27 June 2021 16: 58
                So why are you defending the political and economic system of the USSR, which led to the impoverishment of the people and the collapse of the country ?????????????

                Under capitalism, many countries and their population lived dozens of times richer than the USSR with huge reserves of resources, enormous scientific potential, and access to all seas and oceans.

                Do you want Russia to repeat the fate of the USSR - poverty and collapse?
                1. 0
                  28 June 2021 09: 03
                  It was precisely those who are now in power that led to the collapse of the country. More precisely, their spiritual mentors, traitors to socialism, agents of world capital. All the troubles that have fallen on the heads of ordinary people are explained simply by sabotage. A handful of reincarnated party functionaries wanted to become the owners of factories, newspapers, ships. A campaign of deception and substitution of the essence of socialism was carried out, the destruction of the economy with the creation of artificial deficit, and then a violent seizure of power according to the scenario written by the police.
                  Personal enrichment is alien to the proletariat and its dictatorship. You can't evaluate everything with zhrachka and clothes. There cannot be the main speculator in society. Not the one who created the product, but the one who sold it, with the benefit, first of all, for himself.
                  Therefore, I am for socialism, a just society of equals, with an equal start from birth and limiting the predatory appetites of greedy and unprincipled hucksters.
                  And before the arrival on the Kremlin stool of the agent of the Freemasons labeled in the USSR, life was not even bad. For example, the pension that was paid to us for the deceased father was maybe more salary from the mother. And the prices for basic products and goods n. Of. have not changed for decades.
                  But the deficit is a number of objective and not very reasons. The aged Politburo had enough mistakes. They hammered into the dictatorship of the proletariat. As a result, for example, having lost my job, I cannot find another, because the pre-retirement worker is afraid to contact the employer. In the USSR, I would already dig beds and raise my grandchildren with a pension equal to the average salary in the country, and not a beggarly handout from the bourgeois government.
            2. 0
              10 July 2021 23: 18
              I agree, "Yes, current capitalism is much fairer than the administrative economy that was created in the USSR." Of course, it is fairer: you steal more, you live better. Instead of technology, you hire Uzbeks, Tajiks and don't pay them. Fair enough: there were no figs to come. All current "goodness" is only on TV. In St. Petersburg, the center of production and technology at one time, there are more business centers than production facilities. Solid buy and sell. The country is developing, science is blooming. Congratulations
  27. +2
    24 June 2021 10: 40
    Perhaps, the first article of the Klimov-Timokhin tandem is completely on-the-job, without any lustful fantasies that need to be "quickly altered" and "easily installed" (talking about weapons and armaments). Of course, a completely rotten concept of an "innovative", but frankly weak and disproportionately expensive ship was laid under the "six". It is difficult for ordinary participants in the process to argue with the doctor-professor-admiral, but the approval of the project by the Fleet was a shock to me. At one time, Comrade Zakharov insistently proclaimed the need to build up the naval personnel of the Navy at the expense of the massive construction of relatively inexpensive ships, mainly BMZ. With the transition to industry, something in the head of the admiral turned over. As a result, in 20386 the meme about the victory of technical and technological philosophies not only over common sense, but also over the real needs of the Navy, as well as some physical laws, was embodied. The good news is that, 8 years after the beginning of this bacchanalia, the shoots of common sense cut through, but it is very sad that it (the bacchanalia) broke the outlined normal cycle of building serial ships. At the same time, the series does not mean the absolute immutability of the original project, the "fine-tuning" process presupposes the possibility of making reasonable, tactically, technically and economically justified changes.
    1. 0
      10 July 2021 23: 20
      "With the transition to industry, something in the admiral's head turned upside down" ... Money, Karl, just money. There is no responsibility, but here is such a budget
  28. +1
    26 June 2021 17: 31
    how it all looks like the times of the glorious tsarism and Russia which we lost
  29. +1
    27 June 2021 23: 45
    We have mastered billions, but the exit is zero. And so everywhere ... Zeroed not against, the main thing is that 400 thousand Rosguards with a budget of 1 trillion. a year on guard!
  30. 0
    1 July 2021 11: 47
    Why are you so worried?
    But the form is wretchedly new. Banners red to white (just in case) are replaced.
    The stooltkins walked with the elementalists.
    What is the army and the navy?
    So, the entire Soviet backlog will come out (in 10-20 years) and we will look at the achievements of liberalism with a military bias.
    If the Americans do not cover with a slipper.

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