Military Review

Russian Su-35 "flew": Indonesia chose French Rafale fighters

99

Indonesia seems to have finally decided on the purchase of fighters and it will not be Russian Su-35s, but French Rafale. According to French media reports, Paris and Jakarta signed an agreement of intent, which negotiates the purchase of French fighters.


According to available information from open sources, Indonesia has signed a preliminary agreement for the acquisition of 36 new French Dassault Rafale fighters. The signing took place in early June in secrecy during a visit to Jakarta by French Defense Minister Florence Parly. The final conclusion of the contract is expected in 2022.

Thus, the statement of the Chief of Staff of the Indonesian Air Force, Marshal aviation Fajara Praseto about his intention to purchase French fighters, which he made back in February this year. Speaking at the annual meeting of the country's Air Force, Praseto said that 2021 French Rafale fighters and eight American F-2024EX will be purchased between 36 and 15.

It is already known about French fighters for Jakarta, it remains to hear about the signing of a contract for American fighters, since the marshal promised their arrival by 2022.

Thus, it can be stated that the Russian Su-35s are "flying through". The contract for 11 Russian fighters, signed on February 14, 2018, is "frozen", since Indonesia is apparently not going to finalize it. The threat of US sanctions has finally turned Jakarta towards Western producers.
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  1. Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 16 June 2021 12: 49
    +2
    Russia ought to behave more aggressively and more aggressively in such matters.
    Our competitors do not shun the dirtiest tricks to push Russia out of the arms market ... it's time to wake up.
    1. Klingon
      Klingon 16 June 2021 12: 53
      +43
      Yes, yes, we urgently need to return all the palm oil back and threaten never to buy it again! wassat
      1. Yarik
        Yarik 16 June 2021 13: 28
        +13
        Throw this idea to Volodin and he will accuse you of contributing to the collapse of our dairy industry
        1. Breard
          Breard 17 June 2021 08: 08
          +3
          Throw this idea to Volodin

          hmm ... that's how the FBK is done, you want to take their place. "Vlast" in Russia expressed itself to the wave unequivocally - "We can ... criticize ourselves, only we can"
          This is something of "anti-state activity" and terrorism.
    2. lucul
      lucul 16 June 2021 12: 54
      .
      Russia ought to behave more aggressively and more aggressively in such matters.

      What for ? ))))
      When China subjugates Indonesia, these Rafali are not a hindrance to him, they could tinker with Sushki, but Rafali is so-so))))
      1. Rageee
        Rageee 16 June 2021 13: 15
        +8
        your logic is lame ...

        China has the Su-35 itself, and they have been making the entire line of Su-27 for a long time, that is, they know this aircraft up and down, all its strengths and weaknesses.
        But they don't have such information about Rafali ... and the Frenchman has a radar with AFAR and a more advanced BREO, as well as a more modern and diverse range of weapons. So you will have to tinker with Rafals, a more than a dangerous opponent.
        1. lucul
          lucul 16 June 2021 13: 23
          .
          your logic is lame ...

          This is lame for you)))
          The flare on the radar of an aircraft with AFAR is farther than that of an aircraft with PFAR.
          Roughly speaking, as soon as you turn on AFAR, everyone will immediately see you)))
          All stealth aircraft fly with the AFAR turned off, trying to get external target designation, because with the AFAR turned on, the F-22 / F-35 glow like Christmas trees on the radars. )))
          1. Andy
            Andy 16 June 2021 13: 41
            +14
            oh how! I thought it would unmask ANY radar. and the difference is just in the design.
            1. lucul
              lucul 16 June 2021 13: 50
              .
              oh how! I thought it would unmask ANY radar. and the difference is just in the design.

              Radar operating in radiation mode - emits))))
              Radar operating in passive mode - only registers)))
              1. Andy
                Andy 16 June 2021 13: 55
                +9
                I think you are wrong in principle. the radar is the emitter. at least pfar at least afar. do not confuse you with the signal receiver - something like a passive missile guidance head, which the target is illuminated by the fighter. Yes, experts will forgive me for bloopers - this is not my element.
                1. OgnennyiKotik
                  OgnennyiKotik 16 June 2021 14: 41
                  +9
                  It seems to you right.
                  PFAR has no advantages over AFAR, except for the price and lower manufacturability. Both work for emission and reception, or only for reception, just PFAR has one emitter, AFAR has many.
                  Accordingly, the PFAR is forced to emit one more powerful signal, it is easier to find it, jam with interference, it is narrower, the resolution is lower, etc.
                  1. lucul
                    lucul 16 June 2021 18: 39
                    -5
                    Accordingly, the PFAR is forced to emit one more powerful signal, it is easier to find it, jam with interference, it is narrower, the resolution is lower, etc.

                    False, AFAR generates a signal of higher power than PFAR, hence it is easier to detect by radars.
                    The only advantage of AFAR over PFAR is in the detection range, due to the higher emitted power.
                    1. nks
                      nks 17 June 2021 16: 16
                      +2
                      If you knew even a little about the radio model, you would not have written such nonsense. The radiation power (in general, in almost all radars it is regulated depending on the mode) is a characteristic that is not directly related to the type of antenna. By the way, the N035 Irbis PFAR is advertised as the most powerful fighter radar in the world.
                      https://web.archive.org/web/20160202065300/http://kret.com/product/10147/
              2. Jacket in stock
                Jacket in stock 16 June 2021 14: 41
                +7
                Quote: lucul
                Radar operating in radiation mode - emits))))
                Radar operating in passive mode - only registers)))

                Only this has nothing to do with AFAR or PFAR.
                Aircraft with AFAR (European, American, Japanese, Indian, Chinese, and now Papuan) fly without turning on their radar because they are able to receive information from external sources.
                , and these sources (AWACS aircraft) are available.
                But the planes with PFAR (Russian) do not receive external information from where. Therefore, you have to turn on your radar and glow like a Christmas tree.
                1. lucul
                  lucul 16 June 2021 18: 40
                  .
                  Therefore, you have to turn on your radar and glow like a Christmas tree.

                  At AFAR, the radiation power is higher)))
          2. Alex777
            Alex777 16 June 2021 13: 48
            +2
            Can't AFAR work in passive mode? wink
            But the cost of ammunition from the French will be higher, respectively, the amount of ammunition will be less.
            I will also happily forget about palm oil. Although...
            1. NIKN
              NIKN 16 June 2021 14: 24
              +4
              The question about afar, paphar is not so critical. But here's a bunch
              36 French Rafale fighters and eight American F-15EX will be purchased.
              more optimal, because it uses the same NATO standards and weapons and data exchange systems
              1. Alex777
                Alex777 16 June 2021 16: 48
                +3
                Sadly, for Indonesia, this is truly the optimal combination of supremacy fighters and fighter-bombers.
                It is possible that they will also be given a loan for the purchase. If only they gave up Russian weapons.
              2. Alex777
                Alex777 16 June 2021 17: 39
                0
                If the Indonesians are very friendly with China, the characteristics of the Rafals will be very interesting to him.
                And the characteristics of the F-15EX will be of interest to all of us. bully
            2. Bradley
              Bradley 16 June 2021 17: 17
              +1
              I will also happily forget about palm oil. Although...

              Ohh, if only. Its in our products in bulk and without Indonesia.
              1. Alex777
                Alex777 16 June 2021 17: 34
                -2
                This is true, but Indonesian had a large share.
          3. SovAr238A
            SovAr238A 16 June 2021 22: 33
            +2
            Quote: lucul
            your logic is lame ...

            This is lame for you)))
            The flare on the radar of an aircraft with AFAR is farther than that of an aircraft with PFAR.
            Roughly speaking, as soon as you turn on AFAR, everyone will immediately see you)))
            All stealth aircraft fly with the AFAR turned off, trying to get external target designation, because with the AFAR turned on, the F-22 / F-35 glow like Christmas trees on the radars. )))

            Wow, there is still a person on the VO website who does not know about the LPI mode ...
            But he knows how to scream loudly ...
            1. lucul
              lucul 17 June 2021 09: 59
              -6
              Wow, there is still a person on the VO website who does not know about the LPI mode ...
              But he knows how to scream loudly ...

              Aha-ahah woke up))))
              The AWACS aircraft has a detection range of 300 km, and it can issue target designation to an aircraft operating in LPI mode (passive mode).
              But the trouble is that the Russians have an S-400 with a missile range of 400 km, which means that the AWACS aircraft will not be able to approach the target closer than 400 km. That is, it cannot issue target designation to a 5th generation aircraft in stealth mode. In fact, the S-400 negates all the capabilities of the AWACS aircraft.
              Therefore, in any scenario, the aircraft will use AFAR.))))
              1. val43
                val43 17 June 2021 10: 53
                +5
                Quote: lucul
                radius range

                Radius range is something! After that, what can you talk to about?
                1. lucul
                  lucul 17 June 2021 11: 22
                  -6
                  Radius range is something! After that, what can you talk to about?

                  Aha-ahah))) On the merits of the question, have something to say? Aha-ahah)))
              2. SovAr238A
                SovAr238A 17 June 2021 11: 49
                +1
                Quote: lucul
                Wow, there is still a person on the VO website who does not know about the LPI mode ...
                But he knows how to scream loudly ...

                Aha-ahah woke up))))
                The AWACS aircraft has a detection range of 300 km, and it can issue target designation to an aircraft operating in LPI mode (passive mode).
                But the trouble is that the Russians have an S-400 with a missile range of 400 km, which means that the AWACS aircraft will not be able to approach the target closer than 400 km. That is, it cannot issue target designation to a 5th generation aircraft in stealth mode. In fact, the S-400 negates all the capabilities of the AWACS aircraft.
                Therefore, in any scenario, the aircraft will use AFAR.))))


                You don't understand what LPI is. And that an AWACS plane is not needed for its operation ...
      2. donavi49
        donavi49 16 June 2021 14: 44
        +1
        Not. First, Indonesia and China are friends against Malaysia. Secondly, they now have another round of warm friendship, since China, unlike others, helps with the submarine, and practically free of charge, quickly.


        Well, the only enemy against which Indonesia is building an army and navy is the neighboring palm superpower Malaysia. And she has Shershni, Su-30MKM (from Irkut) and MiG-29. And they, too, are going to buy something interesting on a used one with modernization or new. Prioritize the Hornets that they like. But there is still no serious money. Russia and China (well, here it is clear, the enemy) Malaysia is not considering a future tender for the purchase.
    3. Prisoner
      Prisoner 16 June 2021 12: 56
      +1
      It's not enough to wake up. You also need to have leverage and a good supply of money for ... How can I put it softer? To stimulate the correct decisions of local princelings. winked And we have neither one nor the other.
    4. Revival
      Revival 16 June 2021 13: 02
      +7
      More palm oil?
      Can Indonesian Officials Freeze Accounts?
    5. carstorm 11
      carstorm 11 16 June 2021 13: 09
      -3
      Sanctions. Well, or a new kind of competition. Impudence doesn't work here
    6. military_cat
      military_cat 16 June 2021 14: 20
      +1
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Our competitors do not shun the dirtiest tricks to push Russia out of the arms market ... it's time to wake up.
      We woke up, what shall we do? Apparently, only we and Erdogan, who have personal accounts for the coup, are not afraid of American sanctions.
    7. Piramidon
      Piramidon 16 June 2021 14: 28
      +5
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      it's time to wake up.

      Can you offer anything specific, besides loud slogans?
    8. Guardian of the walls
      Guardian of the walls 17 June 2021 06: 44
      -4
      So let Russia distribute dryers for free - and Rafali will be out of work
  2. Mamuka Petrovich
    Mamuka Petrovich 16 June 2021 12: 49
    +3
    The threat of US sanctions has finally turned Jakarta towards Western producers.

    Here's fair competition and democratic values ​​in all their glory
    1. Woland
      Woland 16 June 2021 14: 01
      +3
      Even our leaders don't bother about "fair competition" and "democratic values", but about palm oil, it's a very good idea
  3. Lawyer1
    Lawyer1 16 June 2021 12: 56
    +8
    I suppose the French will not pay with palm oil and cocoa.
    1. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins 16 June 2021 13: 04
      +4
      And, I suppose, those "candy wrappers" which, instead of palm oil, would also not hurt us ...
    2. Prjanik
      Prjanik 16 June 2021 16: 08
      0
      I am sure they will pay with palm oil, they have nothing more to pay. A rare case when I am glad that we did not enrich ourselves at the expense of a palm tree
    3. Diverter
      Diverter 16 June 2021 22: 39
      0
      in geyrope they eat more palm oil than ours. Because it is beneficial. Because it is very cheap compared to sunflower, rapeseed, etc., etc.
  4. Revival
    Revival 16 June 2021 12: 59
    +7
    Eh, failed to change to palm oil.

    Interestingly, the French will also take palm oil, or is this just our option?
    1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
      Sidor Amenpodestovich 16 June 2021 13: 08
      +8
      Quote: Revival
      Eh, failed to change to palm oil.
      Interestingly, the French will also take palm oil, or is this just our option?

      France continues to use palm oil in the food (40% of imports) and industrial (60%) industries. At the same time, according to statistics, in 2017 France doubled imports of palm oil to 629 (303) thousand tons, which amounted to 6% of the total imports of these products in the EU.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. mih52
        mih52 19 June 2021 10: 38
        0
        What's wrong with palm oil? Margarine is made from it, which is used in many confectionery products.
  5. Runoway
    Runoway 16 June 2021 13: 01
    +3
    Another fact of no foreign policy and +1 lost sales market! To compete in the modern market, it is not enough to have the best product, you still need your own payment system and your own strong, demanded currency in the world (Yesenin at one time in the USA and Europe easily paid in rubles)
    We cannot defend athletes at the Olympics, there will be more ...
    An urgent joke is needed / Putin's quote how we will defeat everyone, will soon be announced after meeting with Biden
  6. Trickster
    Trickster 16 June 2021 13: 03
    -3
    Our troops will get more.
    1. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock 16 June 2021 14: 51
      +1
      Quote: Trickster
      Our troops will get more.

      And by what means?
      More precisely, at whose expense?
      The fact that the sale has been canceled in our budget will not add money.
      But from the sale that took place, both the design bureau, and the manufacturing plants, and the country's budget would have been in profit. Accordingly, it would also be easier to find money for additional aircraft for our army.
      1. lisiy prapor
        lisiy prapor 17 June 2021 04: 59
        0
        Quote: Jacket in stock
        Quote: Trickster
        Our troops will get more.

        And by what means?
        More precisely, at whose expense?
        The fact that the sale has been canceled in our budget will not add money.
        But from the sale that took place, both the design bureau, and the manufacturing plants, and the country's budget would have been in profit. Accordingly, it would also be easier to find money for additional aircraft for our army.

        That is, to "olympiads", "mandials", other "forums", to "3 churches per day", to kickers of the ball, to the "keen fund" for all sorts of "Vikings", "indestructible" and other "tankers from the ruble" - money in the budget, the fifth point is chew, and for defense - "we are poor"?
        1. Jacket in stock
          Jacket in stock 17 June 2021 05: 02
          +2
          You do not understand.
          This is different ...
          wink
  7. Fedor M
    Fedor M 16 June 2021 13: 08
    -3
    And why is "French" better than "dry" ?! Except overpriced ...
    1. Sailor
      Sailor 16 June 2021 13: 14
      +10
      Apparently better, both the AFAR and the digital board are better there, at least the Indian pilots who tested Rafal speak of it with greater sympathy in comparison with the Su-30 MKI.
      1. URAL72
        URAL72 16 June 2021 13: 51
        0
        The Su-35 is planned to be modernized, and it looks like very soon, since the Aerospace Forces is going to buy them in the presence of the Su-57 that has entered production. And there they seem to want to shove the Squirrel. So while Indonesia has only intentions, a new option needs to be proposed. prisoner contract, and I hope there are penalties. We need dumping, not at a loss, of course, but besides oil Indonesia has something to offer, at the same time we will bypass the lift system.
      2. Jacket in stock
        Jacket in stock 16 June 2021 15: 02
        -4
        Quote: Sailor
        pilots who tested Rafal speak of it with greater sympathy in comparison with the Su-30 MKI.

        Well so.
        Drying is a thing of the past.
        Even our planes in the army are newer and more advanced. They had been planning to modernize it for a long time, but they still did not get together.
        And Rafale is almost the most modern, not counting stealth.
        1. Alexander Seklitsky
          Alexander Seklitsky 16 June 2021 18: 53
          0
          Quote: Jacket in stock
          And Rafale is almost the most modern, not counting stealth.

          you haven’t read Chinese advertising brochures yet ... this is where the most advanced aircraft are lol
      3. Alexander Seklitsky
        Alexander Seklitsky 16 June 2021 18: 51
        -3
        Quote: Sailor
        Apparently better, both the AFAR and the digital board are better there, at least the Indian pilots who tested Rafal speak of it with greater sympathy in comparison with the Su-30 MKI.

        well, well, yes ... Indian pilots will sing and dance to something else laughing
    2. lucul
      lucul 16 June 2021 13: 18
      .
      And why is "French" better than "dry" ?! Except overpriced ...

      The funny thing is that Indonesia is long in size, and Rafal will need to reconnect on every large island with an airfield, well, or take 5 PTB aboard)))
      When Drying already flies from end to end of the country)))
      1. nks
        nks 16 June 2021 14: 12
        +3
        Already with 2PTBx2000l Rafal has parity in range with the Su-35 with full fuel, and with 3 it surpasses it. 5ptb - this is for the configuration of a tanker with an ESD.
        1. Fedor M
          Fedor M 16 June 2021 16: 11
          +2
          If I'm not mistaken, PTB reduces ammunition and maneuverability
          1. nks
            nks 17 June 2021 16: 07
            +1
            All characteristics are interrelated. There is a maximum take-off weight, there is a maximum load on external harnesses, the number of suspension points, each of which has its own limitations on the weight of the load and limitations on overloads depending on the weight of the aircraft. Not spreading too much, I will just mention that the su-35 and su-30 have 12 suspension points, and the rafal has 14, the max external load for the su-3 is * 8 tons, and for the rafal it is 9,5, while the su-3 * 8 tons on an external sling can be taken only at ~ 50% of fuel, and at 100% filling ~ 5 tons - these are all official data of manufacturers. At the same time, at 100% refueling (those even without weapons) according to the airplane flight control of the su-3 * max, the overload is limited to 7g, although, of course, when reaching the line of attack, a significant part of the fuel will already be depleted. Rafal, on the other hand, has a more durable glider - this is the only MFI in the world that demonstrates aerobatics with overloads up to 11G, and its external load is not limited by the internal fuel supply.



            https://twitter.com/Amitraaz/status/1203283895321427974
    3. donavi49
      donavi49 16 June 2021 14: 38
      +4
      Additional problems. The country depends on assets and supplies from abroad of machinery, materials, equipment. It is also a classic palm superpower. And if they stop buying palm oil, they will fail in the 90s.

      In general, the Su-35 is not worth such costs, according to Indonesia.
  8. IGOR GORDEEV
    IGOR GORDEEV 16 June 2021 13: 08
    +3
    Quote: Runoway
    To compete in the modern market, it is not enough to have the best product, you still need your own payment system and your own strong, demanded currency in the world.

    Well, what did you want after the mediocre collapse of the USSR? The achievements of our ancestors quickly rolled over and ended up under the west. But it’s not easy and not fast to restore your former level.
    1. lisiy prapor
      lisiy prapor 17 June 2021 05: 11
      -1
      Quote: IGOR GORDEEV
      But it’s not easy and not fast to restore your former level.

      Yes, in fact, no one needs it.
      1. IGOR GORDEEV
        IGOR GORDEEV 17 June 2021 07: 07
        0
        Quote: lisiy prapor
        Quote: IGOR GORDEEV
        But it’s not easy and not fast to restore your former level.

        Yes, in fact, no one needs it.

        In order not to look unfounded - give at least your arguments.
        1. lisiy prapor
          lisiy prapor 17 June 2021 07: 44
          0
          The arguments are as simple as mooing. In addition to resource flows to the "hated west", "3 churches a day", shit films from the "kin fund" in the Russian Federation, nothing is produced. Rosatom is building nuclear power plants at an accelerated pace ... all over the world, but not in Russia. The auto and aviation industry is completely screwdriver production, I generally keep quiet about electronics. Since 2020, medicine in the Russian Federation has not been doing anything except covid (all other diseases in the Russian Federation have disappeared). Do you need to say anything about education? Although you most likely did not live in the USSR, and I am just wasting my time, I am writing to pump it into the void.
          1. IGOR GORDEEV
            IGOR GORDEEV 17 June 2021 10: 30
            0
            Quote: lisiy prapor
            Do you need to say anything about education? Although you most likely did not live in the USSR, and I am just wasting my time, I am writing to pump it into the void.

            In my opinion, commentators like mine with a lot of experience on the site are quite mature people, most of whom were born in the USSR.
            I well remember the end of the 80s, the "legendary" 90s and their widespread devastation.
  9. Marachuh
    Marachuh 16 June 2021 13: 14
    -3
    Yes please! Not only are Rafal and the American much more expensive, but then problems will also begin with the supply of spare parts, if Jakarta does not dance to their tune. The experience of others apparently teaches nothing. Nu, nu ... And we will somehow survive the loss in the purchase of 11 aircraft.
  10. rocket757
    rocket757 16 June 2021 13: 19
    +1
    The threat of US sanctions has finally turned Jakarta towards Western producers.
    Also this ... everything is clear, predictable.
  11. Sailor
    Sailor 16 June 2021 13: 19
    +3
    You just need to do better, and not stagnate. The Indians also chose the Frenchman despite the fact that he is more capricious in service, which means in their opinion he is better, so Indonesia decided to choose a plane for money, not palm oil, despite the costs. I think we should think about it.
    1. nks
      nks 16 June 2021 14: 10
      +4
      Quote: Sailor
      The Indians also chose the Frenchman, despite the fact that he is more capricious in service.

      Quite the opposite - Rafale is perhaps the most problem-free in terms of servicing MFIs in the world (the super hornet can even more or less compete with it here). For example, it does not need a thorough overhaul during the entire warranty period of the airframe, like the SU-3 *, which must be capitalized every 1500 hours of flight. At the same time, the su-30 has a guarantee of 3000 hours, the su-35 has a guarantee of 6000 hours. Rafal had 7000 hours in the first series, and now it is already 9000 hours.
    2. donavi49
      donavi49 16 June 2021 14: 36
      +3
      And Egypt bought another pack of Raphales, although it can compare. And on the Su-35 to Egypt everything died out. Either they want to surreptitiously, so that without sanctions, or they also climb ahead of the treaty, and the Egyptians change their minds.
    3. Roma 1977
      Roma 1977 16 June 2021 14: 53
      +2
      Hindus simply hoped to gain access to French technology and overpaid. And somehow it didn't work out very well with access.
  12. Xlor
    Xlor 16 June 2021 13: 39
    -9
    French fighter manufacturers just gave a thicker envelope than ours. And as a result, they received a contract from the Indonesian army ...
  13. pytar
    pytar 16 June 2021 14: 04
    +4
    Recently, Rafalah has got some successful contracts! India, Egypt, Croatia, Switzerland, Greece, and Indonesia. And also a candidate for a tender for the Finnish Air Force! There is also talk about Ukraine, although it is unlikely there ... The Frenchman is clearly good, albeit expensive! Worthy of the heir to the Mirages!
    1. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 16 June 2021 14: 31
      0
      Rafale and EF are the best multirole air superiority fighters. Cruising non-afterburner supersonic, high maneuverability, advanced avionics and weapons.
      Similar in class:
      The EF on weapons and electronics is lagging behind, and there are many participants in the project.
      Gripen is too light
      Not everyone is allowed to buy the F-35 and turn up until the end of the decade.

      Everything else is of a different class.
      1. pytar
        pytar 16 June 2021 19: 08
        +1
        It is logical! hi Here's another I can not understand! I mentioned only indisputable facts! There are no subjective opinions there! With all that, there are strange people who are negative! Why do they disagree, what is their problem ?! request
  14. ALARI
    ALARI 16 June 2021 14: 04
    +1
    Western sanctions only make us stronger, you tell the workers of KnAAZ. How many yards have you gone?
    1. Roma 1977
      Roma 1977 16 June 2021 14: 52
      -5
      They already have enough downloads. They do not suffer from unemployment. The plans for the development of the domestic aircraft industry are enormous.
      1. ALARI
        ALARI 16 June 2021 15: 00
        +4
        That is, a hundred other green million in the Russian economy is nothing? You understand that military products built on money from the budget are the withdrawal of money from the economy. So let other countries withdraw money from their economies into ours. Let another country pay for these development plans, and we will cut income.
        1. Roma 1977
          Roma 1977 16 June 2021 15: 22
          -3
          Yes, this is nothing. Russia has a stable positive foreign trade balance. She doesn't need to think: "Where can I get some more currency?" Russia's tasks are much larger and are associated with the development of its own large infrastructure projects. For example, agriculture in the Russian Federation already brings in more money from exports than arms sales. And barter with Indonesia for palm oil, as the comrades rightly noted above, is from the evil one.
          1. ALARI
            ALARI 16 June 2021 15: 35
            +2
            A food import partner can be replaced in a year, you bought and sold in your own country, you cannot just change your arms partner, you are attached to him and you won’t just jump off. The countries of the former Warsaw Pact NATO members still use Soviet weapons. And the palm tree is the same money, no one minds when the country buys dollars or euros. If India had not paid for the development at one time, we would not have had the T-90 tank. The kopeck protects the ruble, the old generations were also not fools.
            1. Roma 1977
              Roma 1977 16 June 2021 15: 44
              -1
              The former OVD countries still use Soviet weapons, but for some reason they are not tied to Russia, but on the contrary, they actively supply these weapons to any ISIS or Ukraine, which for some reason are not tied to Russia either. That T-90 from the 90s and the current T-90M, created without any Indies, are completely different machines. Now it is not the 90s and foreign customers no longer decide the fate of promising developments. Moreover, the export of weapons is just a nice bonus to orders from our own Ministry of Defense, and rightly so.
              1. ALARI
                ALARI 16 June 2021 15: 59
                +3
                It is necessary to sell wisely, without the sale of licenses, the prohibition of copying, spare parts only from the manufacturer, and the USSR did not do this because it did not expect that everything would be so sad. Apply for patents. A nice bonus is always a bonus when you hand over a product for a foreign buyer and it's really bad for you.
              2. Jacket in stock
                Jacket in stock 16 June 2021 16: 34
                +2
                Quote: Roma-1977
                That T-90 from the 90s and the current T-90M, created without any Indies, are completely different machines.

                Very funny.
                We still have our own tanks and fighters only because India provided us with the existence of design bureaus and factories.
                And along with them, the existence of the production of related and related ammunition, electronics, chemistry, non-ferrous metals and so on, so on, so forth.
                And ships, by the way, too.
          2. ALARI
            ALARI 16 June 2021 15: 37
            +1
            Why then did we participate in the competition since we don’t really need it?
            1. ALARI
              ALARI 16 June 2021 15: 40
              +1
              Reminds of a scene from the movie - Grenades on the wrong system.
            2. Roma 1977
              Roma 1977 16 June 2021 15: 51
              -1
              Capitalism. There is never a lot of money. I mean that the current situation is far from the one when unique technologies went to people with honest eyes for food.
              1. ALARI
                ALARI 16 June 2021 16: 05
                +1
                Do not say soon food will be more expensive than weapons or already more expensive once we earn more on food, as you say. And no one says that technology is being sold, only aircraft and spare parts. The French probably will not supply their technologies either.
          3. Sergey Nikiforov
            Sergey Nikiforov 17 June 2021 07: 09
            0
            With agriculture, almost according to Sholokhov: Give your wife to your uncle, and go to your aunt. Explain?
  15. Andy
    Andy 16 June 2021 14: 11
    +1
    I’ll honestly say to this Russian failure I don’t even know how to react - on the one hand, it seems like we lost, on the other hand, to pay with palm oil for the fighters ... so-so profits
    1. Alexey Z
      Alexey Z 16 June 2021 20: 59
      +2
      Well, now we will take this palm oil from them for money.
  16. Klingon
    Klingon 16 June 2021 14: 41
    0
    Quote: Yarik
    Throw this idea to Volodin and he will accuse you of contributing to the collapse of our dairy industry

    Do cows produce palm milk using Volodin's technology? Nifiga self technology wassat drinks
    Looks like I'm a veterinarian of the Soviet school behind the times wassat
  17. Prax1
    Prax1 16 June 2021 14: 55
    -5
    Rafali is simply better, soon our aviation industry will resemble our Roscosmos with Rogozin and trampolines.
    1. mih52
      mih52 19 June 2021 10: 32
      0
      The French simply paid bribes to corrupt Indonesian officials - that's the whole success of the mediocre and expensive fighters.
  18. alexey2073
    alexey2073 16 June 2021 15: 12
    -1
    One can only envy the French. They are actively pushing their technique, in contrast to our vymerymuschikh. But this is a business, nothing personal. Whoever is smarter and bolder is with broth, and sucker with palm oil ...
    1. Alexander Seklitsky
      Alexander Seklitsky 16 June 2021 19: 14
      0
      that is, you have identified the French as fuckers? laughing
      1. alexey2073
        alexey2073 16 June 2021 19: 17
        -2
        The French will get money from the Indonesians, and the suckers run around with those who have no analogues. hi
        1. Alexander Seklitsky
          Alexander Seklitsky 16 June 2021 19: 19
          -1
          well well ... wait and see lol And you keep licking the fifths of the Europeans laughing
          1. alexey2073
            alexey2073 16 June 2021 19: 28
            -1
            You lick it, instead of soberly approaching the problems. It is not the first time that the Russian Federation with its products has been overturned in the international arms and military equipment markets. Because the Russian Federation does not know how and does not want to learn how to do business, as its "partners and friends" do. And having sold something, it cannot normally approach the MTO issue.
  19. The comment was deleted.
  20. yfast
    yfast 17 June 2021 10: 00
    0
    Did I understand correctly that we merged the planes, and now we are merging combat planes?
  21. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 17 June 2021 10: 32
    0
    The French have been quite successful lately with Rafal. Even the United States is outperforming with its modern versions of F16 and F18 .....
  22. mih52
    mih52 19 June 2021 10: 30
    0
    The Indonesians decided to step on the same rake as the Indians - to buy expensive Rafali, and then pay an equally expensive service. it seems to me that it could not have done without kickbacks from the French, otherwise there is no way to explain such an obvious fact.