Military Review

"The Be-200 is used in very difficult situations": Russian amphibious aircraft are praised in Greece, but purchased in the West

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"The Be-200 is used in very difficult situations": Russian amphibious aircraft are praised in Greece, but purchased in the West

Large-scale fires in Greece, accompanied by the death of dozens of people, have long been seasonal. Rural fires are cited as the main cause of the disaster.


Greece's main fire plane


As the newspaper "Πτήση & Διάστημα" reports, against the background of the deteriorating situation in this area, the Ministry of Civil Defense announced the termination of leasing and the start of purchases of firefighting aircraft under the AIGIS program for a total amount of 1,76 billion euros. In total, it is planned to purchase 44 vehicles of this type by 2030.

It is expected that the funds that will be released after the refusal to lease will compensate the costs of the fleet renewal within 9 years. Procurement of specific types of aircraft is already being discussed, such as "new modern Can-CL-515 [8 units], which will replace the old CL-215, and the CL-415 will be modernized." After leasing six Air-Tractors this year, it is proposed to purchase 36 new machines of this type [possibly agricultural AT-802]. Thus, the quota for 44 firefighting aircraft has already been roughly distributed.

At the same time, in the said ministry, special hopes are pinned on the Russian Be-200 when extinguishing fires:

The last one arrives in Greece on Friday [June 18, unclear if it is on lease or traditional aid], this is the Russian "beast" Berriev, an amphibious aircraft that can carry 12 tons of water or foam and will be used in very difficult situations for extinguishing fires, since it has the ability to gradually decrease and works at the front for at least a kilometer.



CL-515


The culprit of the Be-200 failures


Despite such laudatory reviews, the acquisition of completely different options is being studied - the CL-515 firefighting amphibians from the Canadian company Viking Air and the agricultural AT-802 from the American company Air-Tractor. It is possible that the Russian Be-200 is again “clipping its wings” by Ukraine: it is equipped with D-436 engines, which are produced in the “Square”. Given the permanent desire of Kiev to annoy Moscow, you don't even need to wait for the delivery of these power plants. Moreover, we are talking about creating competition for the "Western partners" of Ukraine, which firmly hold the leadership of the neighboring country in their hands.

Earlier, Russia has already missed one of the "tidbits" of the world market - in 2019 Indonesia became the first customer of the Canadian CL-515s. New failures should also be expected - China is actively offering foreign buyers the AG600 Jiaolong amphibian. The only opportunity for the Be-200 to stay on the world market is to accelerate the development and adaptation of the domestic PD-10 engine to the aircraft.

Photos used:
Viking Air website
37 comments
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  1. Klingon
    Klingon 16 June 2021 12: 48
    +12
    iOKRSP !, well, it means you need to adapt at least with a file so as not to lag behind competitors, because an excellent amphibian! But no, we swing for a long time thanks to d'effective managers
    1. credo
      credo 16 June 2021 12: 54
      +12
      In light of yesterday's information on the allocation of 800 billion rubles. for the "Sphere" space group, I would still like the Russian government to find the most necessary funds for the development of the engine-building industry in Russia. You look at the fires of this year in Russia and the picture shows us only helicopters and ILs, and where are Beshki.
      1. loki565
        loki565 16 June 2021 13: 05
        +9
        You look at the fires of this year in Russia and the picture shows us only helicopters and ILs, and where are the Beshki.

        Beshki work, if they do not show you, this does not mean that they are not there)))
        1. credo
          credo 16 June 2021 13: 27
          +7
          Maybe, maybe just how many there are, if the forests are burning for months.
    2. VO3A
      VO3A 16 June 2021 14: 52
      +3
      And no need to blunt the Russian state men ... It was possible to forcibly change the engines and their maintenance for fuel rods, for the disposal of nuclear waste, for ..., especially the aircraft is not a military ... The smartest of the dumbest work very stupidly. ..And all passenger An-148s ....
    3. spectr
      spectr 16 June 2021 15: 19
      0
      Taking into account the current realities, it is necessary to allocate so much money to steal that it was enough for the developers to adapt. Because otherwise, either there will not be enough for the developers, or the "offended" officials (that they were cheated) will overwhelm the delivery of the project.
  2. ALARI
    ALARI 16 June 2021 12: 54
    +10
    The author is the kerosene consumption of a turboprop engine and a jet engine, the cost and ease of maintenance in the studio and everything will become clear. Now I'm just not saying that we do not have engines for the B-200.
    1. DIM (a)
      DIM (a) 16 June 2021 13: 26
      +3
      It is not fair to compare directly here the difference in takeoff weight is almost 2 times. hi
      1. ALARI
        ALARI 16 June 2021 13: 45
        +9
        You can, of course, compare the cost of an hour of operation, the cost of delivering 1 ton of water per 1 refueling, the resource of engines, the cost of the car, the availability of spare parts, the ease of piloting, the quality of the runway, but the lack of available mass engines makes the Be-200 not competitive.
      2. donavi49
        donavi49 16 June 2021 15: 01
        +10
        This is not a sport of high achievements, but a pragmatic calculation.

        Be-200:
        - Requires expensive maintenance.
        - In fact, the zero release, that is, if there is something, then there will be no details and the purchased item will go to the cemetery.
        - Requires large reservoirs, which are not commonplace everywhere. And again, if you look at Portugal, then there, babies 215 took as much for a flying hour as the Be-200, simply because they took water from a reservoir nearby, and the Be-200 flew for 25-30 minutes to a suitable reservoir.
        - Requires maintaining the airworthiness of pilots, precisely on this type. And an hour of flight is expensive.
        - Much more demanding of the extinguishing area, let me remind you that in Portugal one Be-200 was nearly smashed due to the difficult terrain and the smoke screen.




        As a result, it is corny too expensive and unprofitable for the country. Especially if there is an opportunity to invite the Ministry of Emergency Situations for fuel, food, accommodation and a diploma at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. wink
        1. Alexander Seklitsky
          Alexander Seklitsky 16 June 2021 16: 22
          +2
          Quote: donavi49
          - Requires expensive maintenance.

          what kind of super service is there?
          Quote: donavi49
          - Requires large reservoirs, which are not commonplace everywhere. And again, if you look at Portugal, then there, babies 215 took as much for a flying hour as the Be-200, simply because they took water from a reservoir nearby, and the Be-200 flew for 25-30 minutes to a suitable reservoir.

          rave. landing speed will not be much higher than that of a turboprop, but the power-to-weight ratio is much higher in order to gain altitude faster. In 12, I personally observed their work in the Tomsk region. On the river, they refueled with water. Just touched the water surface and immediately goes into the climb
          1. donavi49
            donavi49 16 June 2021 16: 34
            +5
            what kind of super service is there?


            Yes, a regular check. There, the number of operations is multiplying + the engine check is more expensive + if anything, then there are no details, it is necessary to order in Russia. On this, the SSJ crashed on the markets even before the sanctions, by the way.

            In 12, I personally observed their work in the Tomsk region. On the river, they refueled with water. Just touched the water surface and immediately goes into the climb


            This is a visual deception, or rather a lack of comparison.

            Planing section 900-1200 meters - speed 185-200 km / h. Plus approach and exit.
            Minimum 35 meters in size, safe width from 50 m.

            We take the SL-215 which proved to be excellent in Portugal in 2016:
            Planing section 400 meters - speed 135-145 km / h. Plus approach and exit.
            A minimum of 30 meters in size and a net width of 40-45m (due to lower speed and better stability, you can nestle a little better).
            1. Alexander Seklitsky
              Alexander Seklitsky 16 June 2021 17: 26
              0
              Quote: donavi49
              speed 135-145km / h

              Yeah, and at this speed, they will come off the water straight. Yes, after touching, they all go to takeoff mode.
              Quote: donavi49
              This is a visual deception, or rather a lack of comparison.

              compared from the video ... 20 seconds is the planing time that a Canadian has
          2. sidoroff
            sidoroff 17 June 2021 09: 56
            0
            in Portugal, Greece ... amphibians have to work not from the "water surface" of the river, but only from the sea - wave height, wavelength can greatly limit the ability
            application.
            1. Alexander Seklitsky
              Alexander Seklitsky 17 June 2021 10: 00
              +2
              It seems to me that the "beriev" seaworthiness will be better. He himself is larger.
  3. paul3390
    paul3390 16 June 2021 12: 58
    -1
    Comrade Stalin did not say in vain - you must have your own! 30 years have passed since the Union was cut, but highly efficient owners with managers with domestic engines have not bothered ... But as commies, we can easily find fault with them .. They, you see, are parasites, they left us a legacy of galosh production. Ugh.

    That's right, Leonid Ilyich's granddaughter said - you can't even paint what my grandfather built ..

    For this - it is necessary to smear the forehead en masse with green stuff, because what is this if not the most natural sabotage against the Motherland?
    1. Piramidon
      Piramidon 16 June 2021 13: 19
      +3
      Quote: paul3390
      Comrade Stalin did not say in vain ...

      How long can you nod at Stalin? We need to live in the present day and understand how socialism differs from our wild capitalism. There will be no return to the times of Joseph Vissarionovich and Lavrenty Pavlovich. There is no one to return them. Such people are born every 300 years. All these "fostered the people's happiness", giving interviews on TV screens and scribbling their "smart ideas" in "mordobooks", are nothing more than balabols striving for power ..
      1. paul3390
        paul3390 16 June 2021 13: 23
        +2
        That is, the lessons of history and the experience of ancestors are not for us, do I understand correctly?

        About no - a moot point. Maybe we just don't see them yet? How many people knew about the existence of a certain Dzhugashvili, say, in 1913? And then rrrraz - and jumped. Difficult times always breed great leaders on their own.
        1. Piramidon
          Piramidon 16 June 2021 13: 25
          +1
          Quote: paul3390
          About no - a moot point. Maybe we just don't see them yet?

          Well, wait another 300 years, maybe you will. So far, there is not even a hint of their existence.
          1. paul3390
            paul3390 16 June 2021 13: 36
            +3
            wait another 300 years

            Thank you for your wishes for longevity. But judging by what is happening - it seems that you will have to wait much less. If everything goes on like this, we will see it in our lifetime.
            1. Piramidon
              Piramidon 16 June 2021 13: 48
              0
              Quote: paul3390
              If everything goes on like this, we will see it in our lifetime.

              As V.S. Vysotsky - "There are few real violent, so there are no leaders."
              1. paul3390
                paul3390 16 June 2021 14: 03
                +3
                And you don't need a lot of them. Together with Fidel, 80 people landed. Subsequently, he said that he probably would have cost ten ..

                The Bolsheviks at the beginning of the 17th in the whole of Russia were no more than 20 thousand. So that..
                1. Piramidon
                  Piramidon 16 June 2021 14: 27
                  +2
                  Quote: paul3390
                  And you don't need a lot of them. Together with Fidel, 80 people landed. Subsequently, he said that he probably would have cost ten ..

                  The Bolsheviks at the beginning of the 17th in the whole of Russia were no more than 20 thousand. So that..

                  20 people is an application. Where is Fidel?

                  All the Bolsheviks then lived in "Geneva" and "Nice".
        2. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 16 June 2021 14: 44
          +1
          Quote: paul3390
          And then rrrraz - and jumped. Difficult times always breed great leaders on their own.

          Well, we'll have to wait, that's our lot.
          1. paul3390
            paul3390 16 June 2021 14: 49
            +1
            Why wait? We must unite and actively look for the real violent. If we don’t nadyba, we will advance from our ranks. Take you, for example, if the party orders you to go? wink
            1. tihonmarine
              tihonmarine 16 June 2021 14: 58
              0
              Quote: paul3390
              Take you, for example, if the party orders you to go?

              Well, if only, the party orders.
              1. paul3390
                paul3390 16 June 2021 15: 27
                +1
                You see - it means we already have at least two potential violent ones! laughing
    2. your1970
      your1970 18 June 2021 11: 23
      0
      Quote: paul3390
      30 years have passed since the Union was cut, but highly efficient owners with managers with domestic engines have not bothered ...

      And the USSR for 70 years, why didn’t bother to make a NORMAL car engine ??? Did the managers also interfere?
      And with aviation, too, everything was fun ...
  4. Slipper 2
    Slipper 2 16 June 2021 13: 21
    -3
    Unofficial Buryatia is not praised, SHOW, they threw it by and in Yandex it is written in the target and the heroes were awarded for pro / non-professionalism am
  5. rocket757
    rocket757 16 June 2021 13: 21
    +1
    The culprit of the Be-200 failures
    The problem is to find such ??? And why, what would threaten with a finger ...
  6. KCA
    KCA 16 June 2021 14: 04
    0
    And where is the adaptation to SaM146? About 5 years they talk about her
  7. senima56
    senima56 16 June 2021 14: 59
    +1
    Recently, right there in the "Voennoe Obozreniye" (if I am not mistaken) there was an article about the effectiveness of air fire extinguishing. So BU-200 -3%, MI-8 helicopters - 6%! hi
    1. Alexander Seklitsky
      Alexander Seklitsky 16 June 2021 16: 30
      0
      Quote: senima56
      Berriev, an amphibious aircraft that can carry 12 tons of water or foam

      And mi 8 had a maximum of 3 tons. Well, the speed is three times lower. And if the reservoir is not close by, then you yourself can calculate the efficiency of the be 200. Don't be like the managers. They measure everything with money, and if you need to quickly suppress the hearth, then the beshka will be definitely more effective
  8. Prisoner
    Prisoner 16 June 2021 15: 51
    0
    When you can't afford a powerful XNUMXWD SUV, you have to settle for Datsun. laughing
  9. APASUS
    APASUS 16 June 2021 17: 12
    +5
    It seems to me that there is lobbying for interests. Someone paid a lot about it. The plane is built for some unknown reason, then it is closed, then production is postponed, while the name has a huge demand for the car and being practically a monopolist, but the car does not go into series production.
  10. Petrol cutter
    Petrol cutter 16 June 2021 21: 58
    +1
    * The only opportunity for the Be-200 to stay on the world market is to accelerate the development and adaptation of the domestic PD-10 engine to the aircraft. *
    So this is where we should have started!
    There is no engine. And all around.
    What does the domestic engine for seven years do?
    How many years will he still breed R&D?
    One hundred / five hundred.
    Because no one closely follows the development of events. Capitalism however ...
    Nobody understands what the point of the problem is.
    And we cannot give it out. And that's all.
    And we have the opportunity to buy private cars in several lams. And fly them around the plant ...
    Instead of purchasing equipment and CNC machines, for example. hi
  11. Al Asad
    Al Asad 17 June 2021 16: 31
    0
    Was there a French engine?
  12. Ratmir_Ryazan
    Ratmir_Ryazan 19 June 2021 00: 46
    0
    The Greeks buy aircraft with turboprop engines, and turbojets on the Be-200.

    CL-515 and Be-200 have different classes.

    Maybe they just save?

    Maybe we need a more economical firefighting aircraft?