Varnans against Nagant. Both revolvers and pistols

112

Here is a revolver called "Top Break", type "Smith and Wesson" manufactured by "Varnan". Could be simple and double acting. Drum for six chambers. It is opened by pressing the "pedal" located on the console on the left behind the drum. The bore has eight grooves and a crescent-shaped front sight on the barrel. Caliber .450. The handle ends with a cord ring. Belgian patent 1874 No. 035536

Didn't come off the conveyor belt -
Handmade and plan,
Systems "Vebley" or "Trenter",
Bland Price or even Varnan.
(Adam Lindsay Gordon)

Weapon and firms. Last time we reviewed Henri Piper's revolver, with which he competed in a competition in Russia against Leon Nagant. However, in the same Belgium there were other firms that produced revolvers. And if it were not for the specific requirements of the Russian War Ministry, then it could well be that not a revolver or even a piper, but some completely different revolver could become the service weapon of the Russian army. There was plenty to choose from! One of these revolvers, produced in the same Belgian Liege, was the famous "varnan", which we will talk about today ...

To begin with, there was a whole dynasty of gunsmiths in Belgium, the beginning of which was laid by Leonard Joseph Varnand, who was born in Cheratta in 1810. He had many children, and all of them were somehow connected with the production or sale of weapons. But the most famous were the two brothers Jean and Julian, who created the Varnan Brothers firm in Hogni (Belgium). For about half of the XNUMXth century, they were weapons manufacturers who worked for third parties and produced various sporting weapons.



Then Jean Varnand began working on revolver projects and was able to improve the double-action locking mechanism, which was widely used by other weapons manufacturers. From 1872 to 1893, the Varnan brothers developed and patented a whole series of several breakthrough revolvers of the Smith and Wesson and Vebley Bulldog types. Moreover, varnan revolvers were made both by the firm of the two brothers and by other manufacturers.


Diagram of the "varnan" revolver device: A - "pedal", revealing the frame of the revolver

Jean Varnand received his first patent in 1875. The essence of the patent was that when the body of the revolver was broken, the extractor came into motion, which threw the spent cartridges out of the drum. Moreover, Varnan managed to come up with a device in which he bypassed the patent of "Smith and Wesson", and it was not at all so simple. After that, it was this mechanism that began to be installed on all varnan revolvers, which made it possible to discharge and load them much faster than revolvers with the “Abadi door”.

In this case, the main difference was the following: in the drum of the Smith and Wesson revolvers, a central rod protruded, which removed the sleeves with an emphasis on their rims. In "varnan" the extactor was a ring with holes for sleeves in the back of the drum. And it was pushed out of the drum by means of four plates. That is, the structure was both quite rigid and durable. The rotation of the drum was also carried out by the "gear" on the same ring. The design was a little more complicated than that of Smith & Wesson, but it was quite workable and could even be positioned for advertising purposes, as more convenient to operate.

Varnans against Nagant. Both revolvers and pistols
Revolver "varnan" 1883 with extended extractor

By the beginning of the twentieth century, the brothers had already devoted themselves to automatic weapons and received many patents for self-loading pistols, but without much success. Their first attempt to abandon the revolver took place in 1890, when they patented (British patent no. 2543/1890) a Varnan-Creon pistol with a Martini-type bolt and a Volcanic-style tube magazine, but this weapon was never produced. ... The first automatic model of their pistol appeared thanks to the design that received the British patent No. 9379/1905, but only in fact it became the pistol of Pieper, who bought this patent from the brothers.


Revolver of Jean Varnand caliber 9 mm, decorated with engraving. Marking on the top of the barrel: "Best Safety Patent JW 1883". The locking mechanism corresponds to Varnan patent No. 75740, dated 1886. Thus, the word “security” most likely refers to foreign patents obtained by Varnan outside Belgium. Well, they placed it on the barrel, of course, for advertising purposes. Moreover, judging by the brands, it was made after 1893, that is, it could well compete on a competitive basis with the Piper and Nagant revolvers in Russia.



In order for the revolver to "open", it was necessary to press this round "button" on the lever on the left ...

The Varnans also managed to be noted in the field of creating the so-called "Montenegrin revolvers".

And it so happened that in Montenegro, which became an independent state, the local king Nikolai ordered all men to be registered in the people's militia and have revolvers under 11,25x36 mm cartridges from the Verdl carbine as a weapon. The distinctive features of the Montenegrin revolver are a huge cylinder, which housed 11,25x36 mm cartridges, more powerful than their contemporaries such as the .45 Colt and .44 Russian.

An interesting feature of these revolvers was the rounded grip, reminiscent of that of the 1896 Mauser pistol, a huge drum and a long barrel. Many firms from different countries have supplied such weapons to Montenegro. Someone was more fortunate, someone less, but Emil Varnan, one of the Varnan brothers, not only managed to design his "Montenegrin revolver", but sold it in Montenegro.


Varnan's Montenegrin revolver with a 9,5-inch barrel and bone grip pads. Its peculiarity was two symmetrical levers ("Francott's latch") on the right and left with grooved heads, by pressing which the revolver frame was opened

By the way, the varnan revolver was also popular in Russia. In fact, it was the same Smith and Wesson, but in a lighter version. And the officers of the Russian army were allowed to buy them instead of the heavier "smiths".


"Francott's latch"


The firm also had such a revolver, with a folding drum. Moreover, he leaned back for a special handle under the barrel


Quite an original design. Although, how much worse it is than others, without trying this mechanism in action, it is difficult to assess


Drum fully unfolded for loading


Diagram of a folding drum device from the patent of the Varnan brothers


Emil Varnan, in addition to the "Montenegrin revolver", was noted for the creation of a large-caliber revolver "Bulldog" or "Pappy". Caliber - .320. The barrel is short, round with a crescent-shaped front sight


"Abadi's door" on the right side. Discharging method according to the principle of a revolver "revolver". The trigger is curved, without the trigger guard, folds under the body for easy extraction from the pocket. Handle grips in walnut with diamond cut and fixed with a central screw


And this is a drum for him


Varnan pistol scheme from a 1900 patent (two versions)

As already noted, the brothers tried to produce pistols as well. Several samples were created, caliber 6,35 mm. " This model appeared around 1908. And then around 1912, the Varnan brothers made a 7,65 mm pistol, a model based on the M 1903 Browning. However, it had no commercial success, since the war immediately began, and such pistols simply fell out of consumer demand.


Another schematic from a 1900 patent.


This is how the block with the barrel and the spring was thrown back ...


... like that with the shutter inside the shutter frame. An open shutter is somewhat convenient. The cartridge case can be easily removed. It is easy to lubricate. Easy to remove: he threw the barrel forward and pulled it forward along the guides. There was another option, where the bolt frame was folded back, which was carried out as a separate part.

If we look at the diagrams from British Patents 9379 and 9379A of 1900, it will be obvious that the Varnan brothers' pistol was in many ways similar to the Browning M1900 pistol. His barrel was in the same way under the return spring, and the bolt had a drummer. But, unlike the Browning design, the Varnan brothers' pistol could have two reclining blocks on the frame: a block with a barrel and a spring and a block with a bolt. Why there were such "tricks" is understandable. The goal was one - to bypass Browning's patent and enter the market with its own automatic pistol. But it is unlikely that such a complication of the design could benefit the weapon ...

PS
Photos - Alain Daubresse.
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112 comments
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  1. +5
    23 June 2021 18: 39
    Am I really the first to thank Vyacheslav Olegovich for another article? An interesting article?
    Rarity.
    1. +8
      23 June 2021 18: 45
      Well, thank you first !!! A rarity? My favorite movie hero - Commerce Advisor to the Snow Queen used to say: You need to get rich on rarities. In summer ice is rare and I sell ice. In winter, flowers are rare ... Many times I was convinced that he was right!
    2. +6
      23 June 2021 18: 48
      Igor, be careful, otherwise you will be misunderstood! wassat )))
      In Vyacheslav Olegovich, all articles are spirit-lifting - even about lethal means! )))

      In order for the revolver to "open", it was necessary to press this round "button" on the lever on the left ...


      For example, on a Beretta, a magazine is disconnected with such a "button", and then it is carefully stuffed with cartridges. They say there are no muscles on the fingers. I have them developed laughing
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. +1
        28 June 2021 19: 10
        Quote: depressant
        on beretta
        fellow
        Quote: depressant
        I have them developed
        belay belay belay
        like a quiet peaceful woman ...
        Well this is how many cartridges you - Beretta (!!) - burned ???
        I had 4 clips from shooting with PM twice a week - the development of fingers was not even noticeable
        1. 0
          28 June 2021 19: 54
          I am quiet and peaceful when it is quiet and peaceful around. When it’s dangerous, I’m careful. As for "finger development", I have weak female hands. The beretta seemed heavy to me, I learned to aim for a long time, holding it with one hand, and never fired from it. The cartridges came out of the store and filled them again. And she learned to shoot a schoolgirl from a hunting rifle and some kind of army rifle, along with the guys whom my father was preparing to be sent to the army - conscripts. Then I shot a lot. Then she trained at the institute.
  2. +7
    23 June 2021 18: 39
    Thank you! I honestly didn't know about Varnan !!!
    1. +10
      23 June 2021 18: 47
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      Thank you! I honestly didn't know about Varnan !!!

      I, too! First I read a poem. Then I started looking for information. When I found a lot I wrote this.
      1. +2
        23 June 2021 21: 34
        why a revolver. with the most inconvenient reloading?
        1. +2
          24 June 2021 07: 26
          We discharge one cartridge case 7 times, then we load one cartridge 7 times. That's why!
  3. +10
    23 June 2021 19: 01
    And the entire poem by Gordon Lindsay, the stanza from which is taken as an epigraph to the article, reads like this:

    Forget crossbows and pikes -
    Retired on time
    Cast in stainless nickel
    Heavy British Bulldog!

    Didn't come off the conveyor belt -
    Handmade and plan,
    Systems "Vebley" or "Trenter",
    Bland Price or even Varnan.

    Or maybe Francott's systems,
    Lying at the bottom of the holster
    Where Abadi's door is the gate
    Gateway to other worlds! "

    Here are many more unexplored weapons!)))
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. +9
      23 June 2021 19: 17
      And about Vebley and about Trenter will be ... The problem is that I cannot find a photo of the Trenter revolver, which in India was decorated with a gold notch in the style of a koftgari. I have a photo in the book by Dorkin Kindersley, but in which museum is it? I wanted to find him in the Wallace Collection, but I couldn't find him.
      1. +10
        23 June 2021 20: 11
        The problem is that I cannot find a photo of the Trenter revolver which in India was decorated with gold koftgari-style notches.


        Will this suit you?
        1. +5
          23 June 2021 20: 19
          Will this suit you?

          The master did his best! )))
          I wonder if they are doing this now? I mean decoration.
          1. +9
            23 June 2021 20: 26
            I wonder if they are doing this now? I mean decoration.

          2. +2
            23 June 2021 20: 27
            Quote: depressant
            I wonder if they are doing this now? I mean decoration.

            Of course not. Now no one is crazy! Even the Indians!
            1. +3
              23 June 2021 20: 53
              It turns out that only the name of the company is scratched out))) But I happened to read about golden pistols. It can be seen that gold is in itself a value in primitive consciousness. So why spoil it with a patterned notch laughing
              1. +5
                23 June 2021 23: 06
                It turns out that only the name of the company is scratched out)))

                Vyacheslav Olegovich is mistaken. This is how they work today.

                And in the previous photo, not just the name "scratched out". Do you see the thin silver wire that the master puts into the drawing?
                1. 0
                  24 June 2021 00: 12
                  Did Vyacheslav Olegovich decide that?
                  Viktor Nikolaevich, I asked it out of ignorance))))
          3. +7
            23 June 2021 21: 29
            Quote: depressant
            I wonder if they are doing this now? I mean decoration.



            1. +4
              23 June 2021 22: 00
              Wow, you! ... Bonus.
              Lower, with the coat of arms of the USSR. Before World War II, golden weapons in the USSR were awarded for achievements in military companies, for the development of military equipment. Then this practice stopped for a while.

              In the future, for many years in our country, the awarding of the Honorary Weapon was not made and was resumed in 1968. In connection with the 50th anniversary of the Soviet Armed Forces, many prominent military leaders by the Decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR of February 22, 1968 were awarded the Honorary Weapon (saber or pistol) with the golden image of the State Emblem of the USSR15. Among them are Marshals of the Soviet Union I. Kh. Bagramyan, S. M. Budyonny, A. M. Vasilevsky, K. E. Voroshilov, F. I. Golikov, A. A. Grechko, A. I. Eremenko, G. K. Zhukov, M. V. Zakharov, I. S. Konev, N. I. Krylov, K. A. Meretskov, K. S. Moskalenko, K. K. Rokossovsky, V. D. Sokolovsky, S. K. Timoshenko, V. I. Chuikov, I. I. Yakubovsky, Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union S. S. Gorshkov, generals of the army P. I. Batov, A. L. Getman, A. V. Gorbatov, D. D. Lelyushenko, I. V. Tyulenev, Colonel General of the Technical Troops P. A. Kabanov. Marshals of the Soviet Union K.E. Voroshilov and S.K. Timoshenko became holders of two types of weapons: Honorary revolutionary weapons and Honorary weapons with a golden image of the State Emblem of the Soviet Union, and Marshal of the Soviet Union S.M.Budyonny - three types: Honorary revolutionary weapons (saber and revolver with the Order of the Red Banner), as well as the Honorary Weapon with the golden image of the State Emblem of the USSR. By the decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR of December 18, 1976 Marshal of the Soviet Union Leonid I. Brezhnev was awarded the honorary weapon with the golden image of the State Emblem of the USSR 16.


              Probably, the award pistol with the USSR emblem shown in the photo belongs to one of the prominent Soviet military leaders.
              And the top one, rather, refers to the pre-revolutionary era?
              1. +5
                23 June 2021 22: 11
                And the top one, rather, refers to the pre-revolutionary era?

                The top one is the APS - Stechkin pistol, which was put into service in 1951 :)))
                Pay money and you will have the same
                https://zlatoust-art.ru/ukrashennoe-oruzhie/pistolety/pistolet-stechkina (правда холощенный)
                Luger and TT, alas, too. The firm in Zlotoust buys decommissioned weapons and makes gift sets. Surely they are doing combat, but not for sale anymore.
              2. +1
                25 June 2021 11: 03
                Quote: depressant
                and Marshal of the Soviet Union S.M.Budyonny - three types: Honorary revolutionary weapons (checker and revolver with the Order of the Red Banner),

                I will correct you: S.M. Budyonny as an Honorary Revolutionary Weapon was awarded the "Mauser" model K-96 with the Order of the Red Banner on the handle and a gold plate indicating to whom and for what on the frame and store box hi
                1. +1
                  25 June 2021 11: 16
                  How nice that there are experts like you, colleague Captain 45! love good ))))
            2. +1
              24 June 2021 07: 30
              It meant the koftgari technique in India. I have not seen modern weapons in this technique ...
        2. +6
          23 June 2021 20: 26
          Great, Victor Nikolaevich! I don’t ask you how and where you found it. Most sincere thanks. He is "darling", but in my signature I will need to indicate where the photo is from !!! No other way...
          1. +5
            23 June 2021 20: 27
            Link to the photo.
            https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/23410/lot/1327/?category=list
            1. +2
              24 June 2021 08: 35
              Looked. Found an auction. I leafed through the "sheet" and did not find ...
              1. +3
                24 June 2021 08: 48
                Vyacheslav Olegovich, move the cursor to the beginning of the link https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/23410/lot/1327/?category=list and press the left mouse button, move the cursor over it, highlighting (turns blue).
                Next, placing the cursor on the selected link, right-click. In the drop-down menu, select "go to the address https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/23410/lot/1327/?category=list" and right-click on it. You get directly to the photo.
      2. +1
        25 June 2021 10: 25
        In Michel Byam's book "Arms and Defense" on pages 56-57 (or 58-59 different years of publication) there is a photo of the Trenterv revolver arr. 1853 with Indian style gilded notch. Photo on two pages. It might come in handy. The book is a small encyclopedia and there is no indication of the location of the revolver.
    3. +10
      23 June 2021 20: 09
      Forget crossbows and pikes -
      Retired on time

      Yes schazzz !!!
      Lindsay's answer:
      "Mchi, sword,
      Sickle slash,
      The scourge of battles
      Brother of razors.
      Fast, sharp,
      Shustr, vostr.
      The guardian is suffering
      Fear of the herds.
      Mchi, sword!
      Hit the sword!
      The scourge of battles
      Sickle slash! "(C)
      Do you see how the drakkar's oars bite into the waves of the North Sea, to the measured chant of the skald ?!
      1. +4
        23 June 2021 20: 22
        Anton, do you want to say that the poet wrote it? wassat )))
        1. +6
          23 June 2021 20: 26
          Almost, Lyudmila Yakovlevna. Computer program "Skald". But, don't believe how close to the originals!
          1. +3
            23 June 2021 20: 59
            What does "close to the originals" mean? Is that how the skalds were composed?)))
            1. +4
              23 June 2021 21: 05
              And so too. And the skalds were different. Not everyone can be Egil Skalagrimsson.
            2. +6
              23 June 2021 21: 42
              Skald is a Scandinavian poet who tasted magic honey.
              One turned into a bird (I forgot which one) and stole magic honey, having tasted which a person or a god became a poet. But during the flight, part of the honey poured out of its beak onto the ground and some people tasted it. This is how poets appeared among the Scandinavians.
              But Odin swallowed part of the honey and digested it. And the source from the back of the beak ...
              If the poet did not like it, they said that he tasted honey from under the tail of the bird that Odin turned into !!! In one word "Cacaphonix"!
              1. +1
                25 June 2021 11: 06
                Quote: hohol95
                One turned into a bird (forgot which one)

                Into the eagle ...
                1. 0
                  25 June 2021 11: 09
                  One in an eagle, but should have been in a pelican - would not have spilled honey. laughing
                  Loki into a mare ... lol
      2. +6
        23 June 2021 20: 28
        But it was a computer that wrote, Anton, and Gordon was a living man!
        1. +7
          23 June 2021 20: 33
          If we consider what the computer programs were 30 years ago (the approximate time of the creation of the visa), then the work is a genius!
          I am afraid that today you, Vyacheslav Olegovich, will not distinguish poems written by a machine, from human ones.
          1. +5
            23 June 2021 21: 03
            I asked about the topic. Computer programs are already writing quite tolerable sports reviews. Judging by the presentation of the news line in Yandex, it can be assumed that political wassat )))
          2. +4
            23 June 2021 21: 32
            Here, the beginning ... um, let's say, the poem (there is actually a very complex classification of skaldic poetry) "Ransom of the head" of the outstanding Icelandic skald Egil Skallagrimsson:

            I sailed, full of
            Singing the waves
            O percy rocks,
            And he drove the song.
            Ice and snow cleared.
            Tror's gift attracted
            In the spring my plow
            Through the blue meadow.

            I will sing the glory
            To the brave in battle
            I will sing a song
            Your England.
            Flows in your honor
            Igga pure honey.
            Greedy hearing mouth
            Yes, he screams.

            Indeed, it seems. So go, tell me where the scald is, and where the computer is.
          3. +1
            24 June 2021 08: 36
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            I am afraid that today you, Vyacheslav Olegovich, will not distinguish poems written by a machine, from human ones.

            Then he could. But progress is progress!
      3. +4
        23 June 2021 21: 14
        And then a gunboat appears from around the corner (sorry, because of the island) ... request Bam ...
        "The candle went out, here we are in the dark." (C)
        1. +3
          23 June 2021 21: 23
          gunboat appears
          "On the front is Stenka Razin,
          Nearby we see the princess "(C)
          1. +4
            23 June 2021 22: 47
            The Scandinavians turn pale with envy, they lack the breadth of a truly Russian soul. wink
    4. +4
      23 June 2021 20: 42
      For the poem, especially thanks to Lyudmila Yakovlevna! love
      1. +2
        23 June 2021 21: 06
        Vladislav, do not thank so heartily, or someone will think that I wrote it. Maybe I'll even think about it myself wassat )))
  4. +8
    23 June 2021 19: 58
    In the film White Sun of the Desert, a tall Basmach on the launch was a huge revolver similar to Varnan, he still threatened Vereshchagin with them.
    1. +7
      23 June 2021 20: 05
      The next article will include this shot and this revolver and its history. ALL WILL BE. Until I say what kind of revolver it is.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. The comment was deleted.
  5. +5
    23 June 2021 20: 11
    In fact, as far as I understood, the main achievement of Jean Varnand consisted in the invention of the famous bolt, one that, when the body of a revolver is broken through an extractor, throws spent cartridges out of the drum.
    And that's all, but a whole era of weapons.
  6. +9
    23 June 2021 20: 19
    Finally! After a three-day drought on the resource, a sip of water, albeit from someone else's flask, for me.
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    1. +5
      23 June 2021 20: 41
      Anton, I always have 5-6-7 materials in stock at VO. But you can’t print me alone, and you’ll get tired of reading. And then ... I have a dacha! I finished the barn, but there is a lot more to do ...
      1. +5
        23 June 2021 20: 56
        Shed i finished
        Are you starting to build communism? laughing
        But seriously. Today's article by Samsonov, posted in the "history" section, came as a shock to many. No, I understand for editorial policy, clickbait and information density, but why is it shit in this section ???
        1. +4
          24 June 2021 08: 41
          I haven't read it, Anton. I cleaned the berries from the dacha ... two buckets!
      2. +1
        24 June 2021 09: 59
        Quote: kalibr
        Shed i finished

        Vyacheslav Olegovich, a barn, as I understand it, according to the "rules of the Turkic language" is this a palace? laughing
        1. +1
          24 June 2021 21: 03

          Here it is ... Filmed in the cold. The heat began the next day. And there was still a lot of work inside. Painting, shelves ...
          1. 0
            25 June 2021 10: 10
            Quote: kalibr
            Here he is ...

            Nicely, I'm also going to build a barn, but I already have a big, small one, but it doesn't include anything. But first - a woodman, this weekend and will try to start. hi
            1. +1
              25 June 2021 10: 19
              And I just have a big one, built by the previous owner of the dacha, but I don't have a small one for tools. But then I and the big one will also go around with boards and make exactly the same doors.
              1. 0
                25 June 2021 10: 25
                Quote: kalibr
                And I just have a big one,

                And I built a small one: 3x2m, of which 1m is a toilet, in the end the shed turned out to be 2x2m and this turned out to be a strategic mistake of a novice summer resident. As a result, now any free space in the house or in the kitchen immediately turns into a "barn". For several years he fought against this and realized that the only solution was to build a large barn. hi
      3. Aag
        +2
        24 June 2021 15: 36
        [quote = kalibr ... And then ... I have a dacha! I finished the shed, but there is a lot more to do ... [/ quote]
        Water the beds with alkaline oil?))
        ... from an anecdote about a machine gun buried in a vegetable garden ...
        Taking this opportunity, thank you so much for the interesting article! hi ... Like all the previous ones that I managed to read ...
        Do you know what is ESPECIALLY attractive about them? For me, at least?
        What is collected by readers, commentators, specialists, experts in various fields, sometimes with different opinions, beliefs ... But! Under your articles, arguments are reasoned, opinions are justified, in a mutually respectful manner, - a friendly conversation with interesting people.
        ... Appreciate how far and wide the discussion has spread in this thread! And everything is easy and natural, like meeting friends in the house of a good host. hi
        1. +1
          24 June 2021 21: 05
          Quote: AAG
          Appreciate how far and wide the discussion has gone in this thread! And everything is easy and unconstrained, like at a meeting of friends in the house of a good host.

          I really appreciate this, Alexander, and I always emphasize such comments. It is impossible to know everything, even the sources cannot be looked at. So the help of the readers is of the utmost importance.
    2. +6
      23 June 2021 20: 48
      Quote: 3x3zsave
      Finally! After a three-day drought on the resource, a sip of water, albeit from someone else's flask, for me.
      Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!

      And yet Anton, where justice was about "bulldogs" two months ago, today about "lizards", and when about "cats" !!!
      Yernichayu could not resist, good evening everyone!
      1. +6
        23 June 2021 21: 03
        About "cats", Vlad,

        other authors write.
        hi
  7. +10
    23 June 2021 21: 19
    As already noted, the brothers tried to produce pistols as well. Several samples were created, caliber 6,35 mm. " This model appeared around 1908.


    This pistol is rare.
    1. +2
      24 June 2021 09: 35
      The idea of ​​a short-barreled gun of this configuration is embodied in a small-sized special pistol (MPS) "Groza", which is silent, by the way. Weapons of the special services chambered for the SP-3 closed cycle. The device easily fits in the palm of your hand (total length - 115 mm, height - 90 mm), but at the same time weighs a little more than a pound. The pistol was created by TsNIITOCHMASH by order of the KGB and was put into service in 1972.
      ICP is a non-automatic pistol with two vertically arranged barrels. Unlike the SP-2 cartridge, which is fired by Stechkin's cigarette case, this ammunition is loaded not with a pistol, but with an automatic bullet of 7,62 mm caliber (as in a Kalashnikov assault rifle). This was done in order to mislead the counterintelligence of the enemy, they say, they used an ordinary "Kalash", and not a special spy weapon. True, the rifling left by the SME on the bullet still does not coincide with the submachine guns, so that upon closer examination, the presence of enemy saboteurs can be established. It is known that the SMP was used by Soviet special forces during the war in Afghanistan.
  8. +9
    23 June 2021 21: 31
    Friends, Hello! hi
    It was a bit late when I got to sweet, but better late than nothing. love
    Thank you, Vyacheslav, everything is delicious and you need one more portion. at least. drinks
    "Francott's latch"

    The same Francott 24 caliber, smooth barrel, removable stock. Sweetie! good
  9. +4
    23 June 2021 22: 10
    "I could well compete on a competitive basis" I doubt it: although there was a lot of stupidity under Emperor Nicholas 2, but change: "wasted on soap." Thunder Me Me If I See: Why is Smithveson's Belgian version better than Smith and Wesson
  10. +7
    24 June 2021 03: 41
    Belgian low-bullet rifles of the Varnan system Rifles of this system are made abroad with different locks: a simplified and reinforced design. There are several types of them. Caliber 22 (5,6 mm) side fire chambered for "long", but you can also use the following cartridges: "short", that is, short; "Montecristo" with conical bullet; "Flaubert" with a round bullet.
    As you can see, "khvamiliya" Varnan is found not only in combination with the word "revolver", or "pistol" ... There is also a mention of the "Varnan folding bolt", which was used in designs and other gunsmiths ...More durable in Montecristo rifles
    and more convenient when loading the shutter
    rum was considered a flip-flop system
    Varnan, he is more perfect and more reliable to describe
    sled above the Remington shutter.



    But is that "Fedot"? I'm not "Copenhagen" here! request
    1. +7
      24 June 2021 08: 57
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      But is that "Fedot"?

      The one, the one!
  11. 0
    27 June 2021 16: 31
    Good day. The other day I found a revolver in the yard. I ask for help in identification
    1. 0
      27 June 2021 16: 42
      https://topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2021-06/1624801334_0e8c7607-4b76-4a36-aa56-b246b38b8a48.jpeg
  12. 0
    29 June 2021 17: 48
    Want.
  13. 0
    30 June 2021 12: 51
    I can not upload a photo. If someone can help, tell me, I will try to send it in a personal
  14. 0
    30 June 2021 18: 32
    The Russian Imperial Army generally managed to equip itself with the worst rifle.
    a) Mosin rifle. In all respects, it loses to both the Mauser and Enfield, and the same Arisaka, along with Mannlicher and others .. The most inconvenient, with the lowest rate of fire, with an extremely inconvenient fuse, and with a bayonet that is attached to the SIDE, that is, without a bayonet, the rifle needs to be shot again. Moreover, the triangular bayonet affects ballistics more than the bladed one. By the way, Lee Enfield has a cartridge with a welt too. (Rimmed). Mosinka fans say how "simple and unkillable" she was, well, Mauser was no less unkillable, and the Krag-Jorgensen was a favorite weapon in Alaska, and in far from warm Denmark and Sweden. Where the climate is far from super, and not the most educated people own it. (by the way, it was also possible to equip it with clips).
    b) Revolver revolver. It's hard to come up with a shittier revolver. If in American revolvers of that time, the drums were either thrown sideways, or the revolver was broken and reloaded with a "clip" by a special loader, which was invented by EMNIP in 1879, and the American Smith and Wasson revolvers were equipped with an automatic cartridge case ejector, which pushed out the cartridge case when Nagant was quite full-time. If in Smith and Wesson it was only necessary to break the revolver, and the casings themselves were pulled out, then in Nagan it was necessary to: a) Open the back door, b) unfasten the ejector to the sides, and use it 7 times. c) Push the cartridges through the same door one at a time. During this time, it was possible to be killed 27 times. And Smith and Wesson (caliber 44 Speshal, by the way), during the same time could be reloaded 4-5 times. Moreover, the revolver is more difficult to manufacture than the same Smith and Wasson or Colt. Yes, in comparison with a conventional revolver, the revolver system gives an increase of 30-35 m / s in the same cartridge. But the same problem of gas leakage can be solved by more careful fitting of parts, without complicating the design, or by using a more powerful cartridge. By the way, Peiper's revolver reloads like a Smith and Wasson, the drum swings to the side, and reloading with speedloaders or half moon clips is quite possible, unlike NAGANA. By the way, in terms of reliability, the revolver has no advantages either over the Colts and Smiths and Wessons, or over the paiper revolver, because the Mexicans who were armed with it are far from the most educated and technically savvy contingent. By the way, the conditions for the competition for the Russian Army were as if they were specially made for the revolver of the Nagant, Piper openly stated that the conditions of the competition were not fair. Which is not surprising, because Leon Nagan had a strong crony in the Military Department. So Nagan won and the Russian (and Soviet) armies lost. Piper's revolver was used quite successfully by semi-educated Mexicans and proved both effective and "indestructible".



    The success of their export speaks a lot about rifles and revolvers. For example, Colt and Smith and Wasson revolvers were bought all over the world. Indeed, in the 19th-20th centuries in many countries it was completely legal to own practically the same rifles and revolvers as the army. The Mauser and LeEnfields were scattered around the world, along with Craig's rifles.
    It's the same with Colt, Smith and Wasson revolvers and others. Only Nagan and Mosinka have taken root in one country - Russia.
    Nobody else bought them anywhere else. Not in the civilian market, not in the military. The fact that the Finns had Mosinks is that they remained after Finland gained independence. And the fact that neither the Nagant revolver nor the Mosin-Nagant rifle was bought by any country, neither for the military market nor for the civilian, in large quantities, speaks enough about the quality of these samples.
  15. 0
    3 July 2021 22: 51
    Twin article:
    http://weaponscollection.com/1/15266-varnany-protiv-znamenitogo-nagana-i-revolvery-i-pistolety.html
    The author is not listed.

    In general, the site looks like a "mirror" of topwar:
    http://weaponscollection.com/1/

    What would it mean?
  16. 0
    23 July 2023 23: 51
    Hi all, I have an old revolver that now, after reading this article, I believe it is a Varnan used by Russian military. It would be good if I could send some pictures of my gun so someone could have a look. Thanks in advance and congratulations for this website.

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