Military Review

Does the Dragon need a Bear?

131

In recent years, we have been talking a lot (especially in the pro-government media) about a certain "pivot to the East" and allied relations with China. And they even considered the option of some kind of such an alliance: our developments and technologies and our resources, and besides, the Chinese industry ... The whole world, especially the United States, will shake with horror. And we…


What are we?

In general, we must take a sober look at the situation and answer the following question: who benefits? For according to this ancient Roman postulate, world politics is still spinning and spinning.

Of course, it is very pleasant to know that you have such a strong friend and ally like China. Gradually emerging into the first economic place in the world and training the largest army of our time.

However, how true is this? I mean the terms friend and ally?

This is not very consistent, it seems to me. The whole problem of Russian foreign policy is that we absolutely do not know how to be mutually beneficial friends. Well, we just don't know how historically. We only learned to buy temporary friends who, with great pleasure, then “throw” us and openly betray us. But these are the indispensable costs of buying allies for yourself, this is normal and there is no getting away from it. So it was, so it is and so it will be.

And with China everything is exactly the same as with some kind of Vietnam or Sudan. First, billions are poured in, then these billions are forgiven.

But China does not need money in the direct sense. China needs territory and resources. And the territory is even more important, the PRC has disputes with all its neighbors, Japan, India, the Philippines, Vietnam. If it came to human casualties in clashes with India for a piece of the Aksaychin salt desert, which is located at an altitude of 5 thousand meters, what to talk about on the topic of any islands, both normal and artificial?


By the way, at one time we were also in a state of disputes over territories. But Russia was the only country that ceded territory to China. We are talking about the islands of Bolshoy Ussuriysky and Tarabarov. There the situation was peculiar historically, but it was resolved by the transfer of territories to China.

Yes, the areas are small. But to call it another victory of our diplomacy somehow does not turn the tongue.

As for resources, yes, we are probably the first assistant of China. Thanks to supplies to China, the miners of Kuzbass did not die out like dinosaurs, hundreds of thousands (if not more) hectares of Siberian forests were given to China for felling, there is more than enough information on the Internet about how the Chinese are cutting down the taiga.

And then there are regular fires. Apparently, to camouflage clearings.

But money can be remembered from this side. Since the beginning of the XNUMXs, we could hear numerous complaints that Chinese industrialists easily copy our military developments, especially without bothering with payments.

Yes, the PRC received a certain amount of military developments from the USSR. They got some of them on their own, buying up from the same Ukrainians or ...

Thus, the PLA gets into service with new equipment, without bothering to acquire patents and licenses and saving just mountains of dollars on it.

If you look at our neighbors and members of the former USSR and the CIS (well, also actually a former conglomerate), you can see China's huge interest in the republics of Central Asia. There, of course, there is no talk about any technologies. There is only money.

Many politicians and economists have repeatedly said that China is squeezing Russian business out of the region. This causes discontent among many and even reached anti-Chinese protests in 2019 in Kazakhstan.


It is believed that once there was a redistribution of spheres of influence between Russia and China in Central Asia. The republics of Central Asia seem to be politically still in various blocs, the creation of which was initiated by Russia, but economically, China is beginning to play the first violin, buying up shares of all enterprises that it can reach.

According to 2018 data, mainly from China to Kazakhstan, machines, equipment and mechanisms are supplied, which account for 46,1% of the total share of Kazakh imports. Mineral products of the energy direction go from Kazakhstan to China. The share of these products is 46,9% of Kazakhstan's exports.

Russia, by the way, is still sadder. Russia also imports machinery and equipment from China with a 46,2% share in imports, and exports mineral fuels, oil and petroleum products. The share in export is 71,6%.

This begs the question: what difference does it make who has a gas station country, the West or the East? If, in any case, the role of Russia is rather unenviable - a raw material appendage.

Both Kazakhstan, in the development of the energy sector of which China invested almost 2005% of the 2019 billion dollars of Chinese investments from 70 to 35, and Russia, 36% of the 62 billion dollars of investments in the fuel and energy sector were invested in the fuel and energy sector.

Investing money usually involves making a profit, isn't it?

And China in general always behaves like a very tough partner. They can yield only where they themselves really cannot, as, for example, in the aircraft industry. But if the PRC invests, it will squeeze out every penny for itself, not to mention the cents.

The PRC is not the USSR. The Soviet Union could afford to be torn away from itself in order to support all those who "go to communism." Especially in African countries. China, on the other hand, plays the role of a zealous owner, a kind of "fist" who does business solely for its own benefit. Today China is an interesting fusion of communist ideology and capitalist economy. Plus a certain amount of clearly imperial ambitions.

That is, the set is really interesting: a developed industry is combined with an openly totalitarian rule of one party (yes, in general, there are parties besides the CCP in China, but they are the same as ours, just for the sake of form), censorship, a clipped Internet and the eternal rule of the Communist Party.

So even though the Chinese say that they are all communists and follow the precepts of Marx, Engels and Lenin (yes, they respect Stalin very much!), And the red flag, and the Communist Party at the head of the country, the state owns key enterprises, the state plan, and so further, but ...

But on the other hand, it is a completely capitalist society, minimal social security for the population, hundreds of billionaires, the share of small and medium-sized businesses in the country's GDP is higher than in many European countries (we are generally modestly silent about Russia) and constant territorial disputes with neighbors.

Communist ideology? Excuse me ... Doesn't fit at all.

Well, buying up assets where China has interests. And China has interests in many places. And the purchase will continue, and in this China will not yield to any Western country. Or, on the contrary, it turns the situation to its advantage at all levels.

As an example, as the best example, this is Power of Siberia. Remember how many shouts we had about the fact that now China will give billions of dollars, how it will be useful for the development of the country. And as China said, “Do you want to sell us gas? We buy. Build a gas pipeline. "

And wiped off and built. At your own expense. And at what price China buys gas is still not really known. But the way the Chinese know how to bargain is clearly not to the maximum. And they take, frankly, not so hot. The workload of Power of Siberia does not exceed 55%. And they are going to build a second gas pipeline. For what?

Strange approach. Considering that we are not even one of the top ten trade partners of China, it is not very justified to talk about some kind of strategic partnerships and even alliances. More precisely, you can talk as much as you like, make loud statements, give out tons of analytics ... But all this will be perfect about anything without similar statements from China.

And as they were not in the past, so obviously they will not be in the future.

Meanwhile, back in that memorable 2014, when everything was just beginning, when the sanctions were just being planned, we were seriously told that in the West we had nothing to catch, everything is rotten there and they do not like us there. And we need to turn to the East, where a strong and powerful China, which will provide investments, will open its rather big market for Russian goods ...

And where is everyone? No, for the role of a gas station country, China normally designed us like that. Nothing worse than European countries. Maybe cheaper, maybe not. But the promised economic growth due to work with China somehow did not happen. According to our Accounts Chamber, Russia's economic growth rate was almost four times lower than the world average. And the volume of investments in 2020 became a record one. But not in that sense, but the lowest since 1994. That is, even during the crisis years it was better with this.

And I just want to state that they have left the West, but in the East no one is happy about us. We are such strange koloboks ... But even looking up to ask: where is the promised economic miracle? Where are the victory marches? Why only the mournful howl of a hurdy-gurdy about the fact that "there are enemies around and we must be patient a little more."

And now some numbers. For the pre-crisis and dockyard 2016, when everything was still going well. The volume of China's GDP was estimated (Global-finances.ru) by the IMF at $ 11 billion. The same figure for Russia is $ 221 billion.
In 2020, China's GDP was $ 14 billion. Russia has $ 720 billion.

So, Russia's GDP is 10 times less than China's. Economically, we do not look equal. And we are not even among the top ten trading partners.

And if you also take into account the continuing decline in everything, starting from the ruble exchange rate and ending with the population (decline in 2020 - 325 people) ...

Where, tell me, you can see interest for China, besides knocking out more acceptable prices for energy resources?

Today, China, despite the crisis and pandemic, is showing small but steady economic growth. And he will continue to demonstrate it. In reality, China really wants to be on top of this world. And the country has almost everything for this. Well, maybe there aren't enough aircraft carriers. And even then, at the pace at which their fleet is developing, we can safely say that for now.

And you have to be a very self-confident person to seriously believe that China will want to share its leadership. The USA has never done this, the USSR has never done this. The principle "And who is on us with Vasya" is not good for Vasya.

"Vasya", that is, China, has its own way. From disregard for such superfluous manifestations of human stupidity as democracy to freedom of speech and freedom of behavior. Although we are also trying to portray something like that by the forces of our power. It is a completely independent and independent country.

And, importantly, China and Russia have never been allies. Historically. We had so-so relations under the Romanovs, we had strained relations under the Soviet regime in the initial period, and even under the USSR it somehow did not work out. Yes, in World War II we freed the honor of China from the Japanese. But themselves and not particularly asking the opinions of others. But what opinion could there have been in 1945?

And what really started under Khrushchev, who publicly denigrated Stalin, who is still in authority in China? Deng Xiaoping generally openly stated that the paths parted from the USSR, and he proclaims reconciliation with the West.


Deng Xiaoping and Jimmy Carter

Mao Zedong already separated the PRC and the SSR in different directions, and Deng Xiaoping, having drawn closer to the West, did not put up with his former "older brother."

For this, China received production and technology from the West, and on this basis China's economic development began.

By the way, in China there are such interesting moments as the "Museum of Northern Territories" in the city of Aigun, where the Aigun Treaty was signed, which drew the border between the two countries along the Amur. For this agreement, the diplomat Count Muravyov became Muravyov-Amursky.

Here's a map from this museum.

Does the Dragon need a Bear?

In general, Russians are not allowed into this and similar museums. Absolutely. After all, the expositions tell about the atrocities of the Russians, the pogroms and the expulsion of the Chinese from Blagoveshchensk. About mass killings.

By the way, every new chairman of the PRC, according to established tradition, is obliged to visit this museum.
Russia did not apologize to China, so this incident may continue in the future. Or used as a precedent.

Today in China they don't talk about it loudly. Not Japan. And those "controversial" little lands - well, they cannot be compared with the Kuriles. But this agenda can be opened at any time.

And I am sure that if China understands that it is possible to snatch, this agenda will not only be opened, it will be put at the top of the day.

And in light of the fact that along with the prosperity and growth of the economy, state propaganda is working, which is not very loud, but says that you need to take care of national pride and get even for the humiliation of the 19th century. Yes, indeed, then everyone who wanted to wipe their feet about China. The contracts and their terms were, to put it mildly, discriminatory.

And the Romanovs are also on the list of "tyrants". Well, where the Russian tsars are, there is Russia.

So you know, so-so allies from Russia and China. Strongly so-so. Especially China, which already receives our energy resources, having such a good stone in its bosom. Yes, we are friends, so to speak, by the will of circumstances. Because there is the United States, which is actually stronger than China, and Russia, and Russia and China combined.

The United States also has a bunch of allies. Unlike China and Russia, which, to put it mildly, are not rich in this. Allies.

And if the United States begins to have very big (imagine) problems? Will China share power over the world, or will it independently carry the torch of communism to everyone? Including us, who have long spit on these very ideas of a bright communist society?

China today is not particularly zealous in showing itself as such an equal partner, and even if the States give up ...

The only thing that is a little consoling is that despite the general growth of everything, the prospect of catching up and overtaking, although there is, is not very strong. In China, there are problems with demography (300 million retirees is a lot) and with the economy.

But in any case, no matter how they tell us that "We and China" will break everyone, we will leave it for Kiselev. China will be friends with us as long as it is beneficial to China. And then, just like many others, he will give up if Chinese interests demand it.

So the issue of alliance is a very shaky issue. Like all Russian-Chinese relations, however.
Author:
131 comment
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Ingvar 72
    Ingvar 72 16 June 2021 15: 13
    +24
    I have been saying for a long time that China is not our friend at all. It was not in vain that the USSR held a grouping of troops in the Far East. The current rulers have let the goat into the garden to the fullest.
    Psychology of a woman who decides to finish off (make friends) the enemy by providing intimate services.
    1. vvvjak
      vvvjak 16 June 2021 15: 21
      +21
      Quote: Ingvar 72
      It was not in vain that the USSR held a grouping of troops in the Far East.

      And not only this. In the military schools of the USSR, the PRC army was studied as a potential enemy, just like the NATO countries.
      1. Tatyana
        Tatyana 16 June 2021 15: 51
        +8
        I completely agree with the author!
        On this occasion, my heart hurts for Russia and its future in terms of China's consumer attitude towards it!
        1. Aleksandr21
          Aleksandr21 16 June 2021 16: 32
          -7
          Quote: Tatiana
          I completely agree with the author!
          On this occasion, my heart hurts for Russia and its future in terms of China's consumer attitude towards it!


          What is wrong in this relationship? Just wondering. In my opinion, it's great that Russia and China have such a high level of interaction and, one might say, a strategic alliance. In politics, there is practically a tandem in the international arena (especially in the UN), there is military-technical cooperation (which frightens the NATO countries), in the economy there is interaction .... trade is growing, which is also excellent, no matter from which side you look, there are some pluses, especially in the situation in which we find ourselves (confrontation with the West).
          1. Svarog
            Svarog 16 June 2021 16: 58
            +4
            Quote: Aleksandr21

            What is wrong in this relationship? Just wondering. In my opinion, it is great that Russia and China have such a high level of interaction and, one might say, a strategic alliance.

            How exactly is this interaction expressed? Can you explain?
            Well, about the strategic alliance you are strong .. Here is the definition:
            Union of States, Coalition is a political, military-political or economic alliance of several states, created to protect common interests, ensure joint security, collective defense or for the coordinated preparation and conduct of a coalition war.

            Where is the strategic alliance here?
            1. Aleksandr21
              Aleksandr21 16 June 2021 17: 08
              -6
              Quote: Svarog
              How exactly is this interaction expressed? Can you explain?
              Well, about the strategic alliance you are strong .. Here is the definition:


              Interaction in politics / military sphere / economy ... in the UN Security Council, Russia and China often act in one bundle, in global politics: Russia and China are opposed by the United States + there is military-technical cooperation (joint exercises, sale of military equipment to Russia - China, C -400, Su-35, etc.), there is economic cooperation (goods / resources - in exchange for money) + there are joint infrastructure projects, for example, Rosatom is building nuclear power plants in China, etc. there are many areas of cooperation.
              1. Svarog
                Svarog 16 June 2021 17: 27
                +7
                Quote: Aleksandr21
                in the UN Security Council, Russia and China often act in one bundle

                Do you mean that China is "abstaining"? So this is not support .. but bargaining ..
                Russia and China confront the United States

                Separately oppose ..
                there is economic cooperation

                Extremely poor ..
                1. Aleksandr21
                  Aleksandr21 16 June 2021 17: 46
                  -7
                  Quote: Svarog
                  Extremely poor ..


                  Should I stop altogether? :) We will not sell to China: cereals, meat, mineral water, ice cream, seafood, vegetables, iron, metals, chemical products, gas, oil, etc. let other countries supply products to China, but we will not, on principle.

                  Separately oppose ..


                  This is how they work together, especially since the resources and forces of the United States are not endless, there is not enough electrical tape for everyone ... After all, the Americans are not just so frightened by the link between Russia and China, i.e. they understand that this is a force to be reckoned with ... and if you do not confront the United States, then in 2014 (and in fact in 2007 at the Munich conference), and there was no need to start, I see many people here are satisfied with the US policy, since they are so are afraid of China, that they prefer the current world order, led by the Americans.
                  1. Civil
                    Civil 17 June 2021 07: 18
                    +1
                    the pension in China is for men over 60, and for women over 55, but in some cases it is possible a little earlier. It depends on the working conditions, work experience and the severity of the work.

                    Despite the fact that in China, life expectancy is longer. On this topic, the bad social sphere in the PRC can be closed otherwise it will be necessary to give even more shameful figures.
                    1. Essex62
                      Essex62 17 June 2021 08: 33
                      +3
                      Pensions in the PRC began to be paid not long ago and not everywhere. Elderly parents supporting children. The state of social relations can be characterized as barracks socialism. Until three skins are lowered from the hard worker, they will not be allowed to rest at two or three places of work in the daily cycle. Everything is very tough, freedom is extremely limited. Censorship - the USSR is a baby in comparison with modern China, and with all this terry capitalism. Double press on the working man. Disgusting society.
          2. Hypertension
            Hypertension 16 June 2021 17: 01
            +8
            Quote: Aleksandr21
            In my opinion, it's great that Russia and China have such a high level of interaction and, one might say, a strategic alliance.

            Have you read the article before squeezing a comment?
            What is the strategic alliance? Siphoning resources under the guise of confrontation between Russia and the United States.
            1. Aleksandr21
              Aleksandr21 16 June 2021 17: 16
              +1
              Quote: Hyperion
              Have you read the article before squeezing a comment?
              What is the strategic alliance? Siphoning resources under the guise of confrontation between Russia and the United States.


              I read it, the author for the sake of one question - he sketched it over a whole article, without conclusions ... just to speculate. Regarding the sale of resources, what does Russia only sell resources to China? To Europe, Asia (with the exception of China) - no sale of resources?

              PS And a counter question to you, what kind of cooperation should there be between China and Russia? Or not trade at all and not interact with 1-2 economies of the world?
              1. Hypertension
                Hypertension 16 June 2021 18: 20
                +10
                Quote: Aleksandr21
                and that Russia only sells resources to China? To Europe, Asia (with the exception of China) - no sale of resources?

                The bottom line is that Russia from a country in which everything was produced - from needles to satellites (I mean the USSR) has turned into a gas station country, into a raw material appendage. That the West, that the East.
                Therefore, there can be no talk of an equal and strategic alliance / partnership.
                Quote: Aleksandr21
                and what kind of cooperation should there be between China and Russia? Or not trade at all and not interact with 1-2 world economies?

                This is how it should be. If the production was destroyed, the only thing left was to sell the minerals. While there is still something to dig. As for Juan and the sombrero, as they say ... But against this background, it is simply ridiculous to hear about an "alliance" with China.
                Here with Belarus, which receives preferences from Russia, they do not concoct an alliance in any way, and what can we say about the PRC - almost the first economy in the world.
                1. antivirus
                  antivirus 16 June 2021 18: 34
                  -5
                  very often he began to notice that following Stirlitz walking down the corridor is also the crocodile Gena.
                  and if there is a problem, it will definitely bring you to death.
                  The United States trades with China and others "not friends" and is still alive
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 16 June 2021 18: 57
                    +7
                    Quote: antivirus
                    The United States trades with China and others "not friends" and is still alive

                    Trade consists of exports and imports and their structure. Trade between the United States and China is very different from that of Russia and China. You must understand this, but for some reason you pretend that you do not understand.
                    I am wrong?
                2. Aleksandr21
                  Aleksandr21 16 June 2021 18: 54
                  -1
                  Quote: Hyperion

                  The bottom line is that Russia from a country in which everything was produced - from needles to satellites (I mean the USSR) has turned into a gas station country, into a raw material appendage. That the West, that the East.
                  Therefore, there can be no talk of an equal and strategic alliance / partnership.


                  Unfortunately, the USSR has been gone for a long time, and one must proceed from the realities. For example, I see the following options for the future of Russia and its place in the world ..... 1) We end the confrontation with the United States and join the Western camp (on their terms). 2) We are adjacent to the Chinese camp (China and its many trading partners: in Asia, the Middle East, South America, etc.) 3) We continue to try to revive the USSR 2.0 in the EAEU format ... but without technology and goods from China, we will not pull out the confrontation with the West, of course you can try without the PRC, but in terms of technology and development, the West will overtake us for many years ... as happened with North Korea and Iran. those. they themselves are trying to develop absolutely all technologies on their own, but due to the limited internal market and limited resources, they cannot grasp all areas, and can more or less develop only certain areas: i.e. this is the military sphere / security + the rest of the areas by a little, but they are not competitors in comparison with Western technologies and their products, and they want to drive Russia into the same framework, in conditions when we are already lagging behind in technology (in industry, in semiconductors, electronics , AI, communication networks, etc.), there are areas where we are strong (rocketry, nuclear energy, etc.) but there are not many of them ... and then either develop where we are strong, or dissipate resources on everything, according to the example of North Korea and Iran .... China, by the way, also scatters resources and explores / develops almost everything, but with 1,4 billion population and such an economy, this is not a burden, but we will simply overstrain + why do you reject equal cooperation, between Russia with China? Take our time specifically, is China forcing us to do something? Is there any kind of unequal relationship where we feel disadvantaged?

                  Quote: Hyperion
                  This is how it should be. If the production was destroyed, the only thing left was to sell the minerals. While there is still something to dig. As for Juan and the sombrero, as they say ... But against this background, it is simply ridiculous to hear about an "alliance" with China.


                  Nevertheless, we sell not only gas and oil to China, but also timber ... I already wrote above:

                  Should I stop altogether? :) We will not sell to China: cereals, meat, mineral water, ice cream, seafood, vegetables, iron, metals, chemical products, gas, oil, etc. let other countries supply products to China, but we will not, on principle.


                  Of course, not in the volumes that we would like, but we sell different products ... + NPP - Rosatom builds in China, and we cooperate in other areas ... is that bad? I think that the opposite is good.
                  1. Hypertension
                    Hypertension 16 June 2021 20: 11
                    +6
                    Quote: Aleksandr21
                    The West will overtake us for many years to come ... as happened with North Korea and Iran

                    Well, you compared ... Russia is richer in resources and brains. Yes, and the Soviet groundwork - oh, what was it. That is, it was not possible to start everything from scratch. But polymers of that - bye-bye.
                    Quote: Aleksandr21
                    We sell different products ... + NPP - Rosatom builds in China, and we cooperate in other areas ... is that bad?

                    It's good. That is not all sold yet. But, I repeat: there can be no talk of an equal union. The bear is not a dragon's comrade.
                    "Said the cat to the mouse
                    - Let's be friends with you
                    And be this friendship
                    Treasure to death ... "(c)
                    1. Aleksandr21
                      Aleksandr21 17 June 2021 10: 16
                      -1
                      Quote: Hyperion

                      Well, you compared ... Russia is richer in resources and brains. Yes, and the Soviet groundwork - oh, what was it. That is, it was not possible to start everything from scratch. But polymers of that - bye-bye.


                      Compared to the collective West (USA - 332 million people, EU - 447 million people, Great Britain - 67 million people, Canada - 38 million people, Australia - 25 million people, etc.), which is richer than us ( what is in PPP GDP, what is nominal in GDP, what is in other parameters ...) and which surpasses us by a head in almost all technologies - Russia is lagging behind in any case (146 million people, yes there are quite good reserves and resources) but development We will not be able to handle all industries anyway, we do not have so many resources to develop everything and be competitive in the international market. This is a fact, and here you need to be honest, at least in front of yourself ... that's why I'm talking about the fact that Russia is profitable cooperate with China to be competitive in at least some industries, and where we are weak, we can replace (Western technologies and their products) - from the Chinese direction. And there is nothing shameful here ... and it is generally stupid to refuse trade with China, well, we will not supply gas / oil / agricultural products, etc. to China ... other countries will be supplied, and they will make money on this, and our budget will receive less funds.

                      Of course, you need to revive your industry, science, education, and many, many other things are absolutely necessary, and you need to work on it ... but you also need to be realistic, Russia is far from the USSR, we no longer have opportunities + after the collapse of the USSR and The satiated oil years (2007-2014) lost the time when the West and China developed their technologies, and we stood still, and now it is impossible to close the gap with a snap of our fingers ... in any case, we will need to cooperate with someone to move forward.
                      1. Hypertension
                        Hypertension 17 June 2021 11: 08
                        +3
                        Quote: Aleksandr21
                        but the development of all industries, we still will not pull

                        Yes ... people are only enough for the oil industry with gas. The rest are all managers, security guards, officials and salespeople in the top five. If it is normal not to pay engineers, then be it even a billion of the population, we will not be able to compete. But it is possible to drive people on watch from one end of a huge country to the other.
                        Quote: Aleksandr21
                        refusing trade with China is generally stupid

                        I am not saying that you need to give up trade with China. It is necessary to abandon the "superpower" rhetoric. Get used to the fact that the world does not revolve around Russia.
                3. NIKN
                  NIKN 17 June 2021 15: 13
                  -2
                  The bottom line is that Russia from a country in which everything was produced - from needles to satellites (I mean the USSR) has turned into a gas station country, into a raw material appendage. What is West, what is East
                  I understand that China is to blame? Bastards by God.
          3. Vladimir1155
            Vladimir1155 17 June 2021 21: 27
            -1
            1) Russia and China are obliged to be friends! ... and this obligation arises from the proximity and the longest common border (love your neighbor) ... 2) The United States is far away and is used to robbing everyone as China has not learned ... 3) Russia and China have a common interest = to get out of the American yoke .... and this is the reason for an alliance and a united front on a number of issues at the UN, 4) Russia and China have a common enemy historically, Japan, cherishing aggressive plans against both countries, and wants to tear off our and Chinese historical lands (islands) 5) Although Russia and a great power up to a veto in the UN, but not the USSR, and support from a strong ally is simply necessary 6) Russia and China have never fought! if we count Khrushchev's treacherous provocations ... 7) we started for health we end up for peace, Russia in this alliance will be a junior partner, according to objective data (the size of GDP and population), and this must be reconciled (seytsas aircraft carriers will negate the truth), but in this alliance it is necessary to defend its interests, in this partnership, China is also interested not to lose a faithful friend of an ally with nuclear weapons and a neighbor who deserted to the United States with which China's relations are deteriorating
        2. Svarog
          Svarog 16 June 2021 16: 54
          +6
          Quote: Tatiana
          On this occasion, my heart hurts for Russia and its future in terms of China's consumer attitude towards it!

          Our future is in ourselves .. We patiently swallow "stability", irremovability and the accompanying degradation of everything and everyone .. hi
        3. Vladimir Mashkov
          Vladimir Mashkov 16 June 2021 22: 06
          -4
          The last article on VO today is about Biden's press conference. And there are curious lines there that echo the topic of this article: "An important part of Joe Biden's press conference was his mention of China. Biden actually made it clear that in a conversation with Vladimir Putin he was trying to point out that the Russian Federation needs to be" more careful with China ", since Russia and China have a long common border, and China considers itself the largest economy and one of the militarily strongest powers in the world. " Something today everyone remembered about China ... lol
          1. Peak
            Peak 17 June 2021 10: 44
            -3
            Quote: Vladimir Mashkov
            Something today everyone remembered about China ...

            Not "everyone", but specifically the United States, realizing that NATO with its Poland-Baltic states is still somehow determined to confront us, then they have no interest in contacting China, and the United States is practically left alone with the ever-growing power of the PRC, who are also close to us ..

            The main cry from the United States, everything else, just reactions to it.
            1. Vladimir Mashkov
              Vladimir Mashkov 17 June 2021 11: 35
              +1
              Quote: PiK
              Not "all", but specifically the United States,

              What about the United States, if this article appeared earlier and a heated discussion of the harmfulness of contacts between Russia and China rushed "through the pipes" earlier. same Biden's statement?
              Neither many of the VO participants with whom I communicate, nor myself is a supporter of conspiracy theories, but it is somehow pretty annoying that sometimes a certain group of VO commentators, as if on command, in unison with the West, simultaneously support a certain Western idea. Western, not Russian! Coincidences, of course, but not good ... smile
              1. Peak
                Peak 17 June 2021 12: 28
                -3
                Quote: Vladimir Mashkov
                It is really annoying that sometimes a certain group of VO commentators, as if on cue, in unison with the West, simultaneously support a certain Western idea. Western, not Russian!

                Sorry to call you "victim of the internet", but it seems that this is so, since you," on the go ", thoughtlessly, perceive the information wave as something definitely coming from Russians, citizens of the Russian Federation.

                Are you sure that the spokesmen for the Western idea are commentators from Russia, and not provocateurs (for example) from Ukraine posing as Russians?
                Who asked them for their passport?
                1. Vladimir Mashkov
                  Vladimir Mashkov 17 June 2021 13: 17
                  -1
                  Quote: PiK
                  Are you sure that the spokesmen for the Western idea are commentators from Russia, and not provocateurs (for example) from Ukraine posing as Russians?
                  Who asked them for their passport?

                  Of course I'm NOT sure, I have NOT checked the passport and registration: me it is NOT possible, although some can and do have this authority. Only from the comments, the correspondence I see myself and people say that only a minority of them are from abroad, and the majority are still (for now?) Russians. Yes, and not "outright" observations of these many people, some of whom have been on VO for a long time ... smile
                  1. Peak
                    Peak 17 June 2021 13: 19
                    -4
                    Quote: Vladimir Mashkov
                    I see myself only from comments and correspondence, and people say that only a minority of them are from abroad, and the majority are Russians.

                    Blessed is he who believes


                    Add - blindly believes in the ghostly yes
                    1. Vladimir Mashkov
                      Vladimir Mashkov 17 June 2021 13: 25
                      -1
                      Quote: PiK
                      Blessed is he who believes


                      I will add - blindly believes in the seeming

                      Here I am about the same! laughing
                      1. Peak
                        Peak 17 June 2021 13: 31
                        -4
                        Quote: Vladimir Mashkov
                        Here I am about the same!

                        You misunderstood me I'm about you as not seeing that an information war has unfolded on the Internet, social networks (VO is no exception), with the participation of both "volunteers" and special services of countries hostile to us, creating a certain media background, including designed to convince the audience that Russia is massively pro-Western ...

                        You are being bred, and you are being led ...
                      2. Vladimir Mashkov
                        Vladimir Mashkov 17 June 2021 13: 46
                        -1
                        Quote: PiK
                        You are being bred, and you are being led ...

                        You are wrong. At first, yes, I did not. And now I can clearly see who is who. Who is a patriot of Russia, and who is disguised as a patriot, acting jointly and for the benefit of the West. Yes, and it would be strange to be blind in the eighth decade. And I don't suffer from dementia like Biden yet! smile
                      3. Peak
                        Peak 17 June 2021 13: 50
                        -5
                        Quote: Vladimir Mashkov
                        You are wrong. At first, yes, I did not. And now I can clearly see who is who. Who is a patriot of Russia, and who is disguised as a patriot. Yes, and it would be strange to be blind in the eighth decade. And I don't suffer from dementia like Biden yet!

                        Don't bury yourself yes
                        Otherwise you will look like a local fool , a certain Weasel, who sees through and through everyone and gives each of them his "authoritative" assessment.
                      4. Vladimir Mashkov
                        Vladimir Mashkov 17 June 2021 13: 57
                        0
                        Quote: PiK
                        Don't bury yourself
                        Otherwise, you will look like a local, a certain Weasel, who sees through and through everyone and gives everyone their "authoritative" assessment

                        Why are these threats?
                        И its you will NOT forbid me to have an opinion about anything or about someone. Even if you can harm me in any way.
                      5. Peak
                        Peak 17 June 2021 14: 02
                        -5
                        Quote: Vladimir Mashkov
                        Why are these threats?

                        They say the truth - "Old, what a little child" , begin to whine for any reason and without.

                        Take it easy stop , no one threatens you. This is your imagination.

                        Quote: Vladimir Mashkov
                        And you will NOT forbid me to have your opinion about anything or about anyone. Even if you can harm me in any way.


                        Are you sure everything is in order with your mind?
                      6. Vladimir Mashkov
                        Vladimir Mashkov 17 June 2021 14: 08
                        0
                        Quote: PiK
                        Are you sure everything is in order with your mind?

                        With my sanity, I see much better than yours, although I think you are much older. And with decency, endurance - too: NOT ME, having no arguments, began to insult you, and you me! And they threatened.smile
                      7. Peak
                        Peak 17 June 2021 14: 13
                        -5
                        Quote: Vladimir Mashkov
                        Quote: PiK
                        Are you sure everything is in order with your mind?

                        With my sanity, I see much better than yours, although I think you are much older. And with decency, endurance - too: NOT ME, having no arguments, began to insult you, and you me! And they threatened.smile


                        And boast and pomp and extravagance.

                        Sorry for you ...
                      8. Vladimir Mashkov
                        Vladimir Mashkov 17 June 2021 14: 50
                        +1
                        Quote: PiK
                        And boast and pomp and extravagance.

                        Sorry for you ...

                        I have no boast, pomp and extravagance at all! There is only normal human reciprocal reaction to your threats and insults.

                        And I'm not sorry for you, for you are not stupid, but very bad person, descending to threats and insults.
  • Machito
    Machito 16 June 2021 15: 24
    -5
    For the past one hundred and fifty years, there has been a fierce battle for China between Russia and the West. Russia supplies China with weapons and weapons technologies, the West supplies industrial technologies. As a result of this battle, China wins. There are only two countries in the world that can produce the entire spectrum of the United States and Russia, which have their own weapons schools for the production of weapons. China is within the sphere of influence of our weapons school. We will also see China buy our latest S-500 air defense system.
    1. New Year day
      New Year day 16 June 2021 15: 39
      +1
      Quote: Bearded
      For the past one hundred and fifty years, there has been a fierce battle for China between Russia and the West.

      And he milks everyone, taking advantage of this.
    2. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 16 June 2021 15: 56
      +11
      Quote: Bearded
      China wins this battle

      We are losing anyway.
      Quote: Bearded
      There are only two countries in the world that can produce the entire spectrum USA and Russia
      Not anymore. China has already (!) Surpassed us in the arms marathon. We are still holding on to some positions, but with the current policy of "our" government, this is a question for 2-3 years.
    3. Svarog
      Svarog 16 June 2021 17: 02
      +2
      Quote: Bearded
      For the past one hundred and fifty years, there has been a fierce battle for China between Russia and the West.

      I have to disagree with you, dear Borodach hi
      The battle was between Russia and the West, and China uses it very successfully and benefits from it .. But now, the battle is already going on between China and the West .. for the resources of Russia .. from that everyone is turned to us by the fifth point ..
      1. Machito
        Machito 16 June 2021 17: 05
        0
        Oh, in vain they, Volodya, turned their fifth point towards us. laughing
        1. Svarog
          Svarog 16 June 2021 17: 31
          +1
          Quote: Bearded
          Oh, in vain they, Volodya, turned their fifth point towards us. laughing

          Historically speaking ... yes laughing But something suggests that history has interrupted its spiral and there will be a new round .. According to Gumilev, Russia is doomed, since there are no passionaries .. You can disagree with him, but everything, absolutely everything says that our prospects are sad .. . starting from demography, ending with the passivity of citizens ..
      2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 16 June 2021 17: 19
        -4
        Quote: Svarog
        the battle is already underway between China and the West .. for the resources of Russia ..

        This, sorry, how? Do not bother to explain?
        1. Svarog
          Svarog 16 June 2021 17: 34
          +6
          Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Quote: Svarog
          the battle is already underway between China and the West .. for the resources of Russia ..

          This, sorry, how? Do not bother to explain?

          And what is there to explain? Probably not a secret that all wars, one way or another, are for resources .. Russia is the richest country, with the lowest population per square meter .. which is rapidly decreasing .. thereby completely killing the prospect of revival. But the prospect of splitting up the country is obvious .. not today, of course, but in the near future .. And the United States and China will begin to derail it. Or do you think that today's high-ranking officials of the country will be able to reverse the decline in population and the degradation of everything and everyone? And if not, then the prospect is obvious.
  • paul3390
    paul3390 16 June 2021 15: 36
    +16
    And why should China, building socialism, be a sincere friend of the feudal capitalist country that has pissed off all the achievements of socialism ?? What do we have in common? And how should they relate to our type of elite - plundering their own Motherland to please the West?

    And about the quarrel with the USSR - this is how Mao immediately said:

    "After 1953, nationalists and careerists-bribe-takers came to power on the ground in the USSR. Covered from the Kremlin. When the time comes, they will throw off their masks, throw away their membership cards and openly rule their counties like feudal lords and serf-owners ..."

    And as you can see, he turned out to be extremely accurate in his assessment.
    1. New Year day
      New Year day 16 June 2021 15: 40
      +7
      Quote: paul3390
      And why is China, building socialism, should be a sincere friend of the pissed off

      What kind of socialism is there! So is capitalism with a Chinese face. He owes nothing to anyone
      1. paul3390
        paul3390 16 June 2021 15: 45
        +2
        Again?? Well, when will you all bother to read Chinese documents, and not invent the devil for them? NEP there, NEP. Only they could afford to prolong it greatly in time .. If Comrade Stalin had 40 calm years in reserve, our story would have been completely different ..

        Now - they have received what they need to build socialism - the proletariat and industry. And Comrade Xi says directly and clearly - we START to build socialism. For Mao tried to build it in a thoroughly peasant country - naturally nothing came of it. Therefore, Dan - went the other way. And he skillfully used the hack between the USSR and the West to achieve his goals.
      2. Monster_Fat
        Monster_Fat 16 June 2021 19: 14
        +11
        I have worked in China for over a year and I can say that most of those drowning in "friendly China" do not understand at all what this "China" is, you cannot even imagine the Chinese mentality in your thoughts. You live some kind of idiotic ideas, forgive me, sucked out of something incomprehensible. I will not go deeper, because this is a thankless task, as the majority, for some reason, have hammered into their heads the belief about a communist, "going the right way" China, allegedly caring about people ... China's goals? "Well, for example, do you even know how the Chinese look like Armageddon and the Last Days? For the Chinese it is a battle of the dragons of earth and sky. Moreover, they will be helped in the battle by the grown Great Dragons. And one of these dragons, guess who?" Just about, and all the others who are not with him are enemies ...
        1. Spring fluff
          Spring fluff 16 June 2021 23: 27
          +4
          Reasonable words. People drowning for China do not even try to understand what they think and how the Chinese look at the world. I know a professional psychiatrist who has been conducting psychiatric examinations of criminals for a very long time. So, according to her, the Chinese perceive all non-Chinese people with rather contemptuousness.

          As for the strategic turn of the Russian Federation to the east and cooperation with China, the figures are as follows:
          - According to the data of the main customs administration of the PRC, the trade between the United States and China in the first five months of 2021 increased by 52,3% compared to the same period last year and amounted to $ 279,64 billion.
          According to Chinese customs, exports from China to the United States in the first five months of this year increased by 49,8% (!), Reaching $ 206,05 billion, while the United States imported goods worth $ 73,59 billion into China, which by 59,8% (!) more than in the same period last year.

          Trade between Russia and China in the first five months of this year increased by 23,6% year on year, to $ 50,65 billion, the PRC General Customs Administration reported on Monday.
          As follows from the published data, exports to the Russian Federation in January-May increased by 35,3% (!) And amounted to about $ 22,921 billion. Imports of Russian goods and services increased over five months by 15,4% (!), To $ 27,735 billion.
          Compare volumes, dynamics and the ratio of exports / imports. The structure is too lazy to look for, but I think it's clear.
          1. Dante Alighieri
            Dante Alighieri 17 June 2021 12: 30
            0
            Every time it comes to our frigid alliance with China, for some reason I always remember this video by Seryozha Dorenko. But the devil was right, right.
  • Yrec
    Yrec 16 June 2021 15: 45
    +11
    In politics, no one is anyone's friend. It's just that we have strange relations with our neighbors, then "friends", then "brothers". Putin understands all this and, despite the fact that he still uses the words "fraternal peoples", "friends" and other crap, continues to build up the military power of the Russian Federation. All allies for us (as well as for everyone else) are purely situational. Looking at China, its policies have been isolationist for millennia. Now he is expanding. However, one must take into account the fact that, for example, the Anglo-Saxons waged quite successful wars of conquest during their expansion. And China has almost always suffered military defeats over the past 100-150 years. He has no experience of successful wars. And all of his numerous, armed and equipped army, with a good blow, can "crumble". Or maybe not. It's like the Leopard-2 tank, which was considered the best in the world until the Turks drove into Syria on it. Economically, for China, we are ordinary raw material suckers, but from a military point of view, they do us justice. We are a warrior people, not a merchant. Therefore, nepotism, corruption and other delights flourish in our economy. China knows this, and so do we. It's time to stop being shy and declare yourself, although maybe it's not time yet.
    1. Hypertension
      Hypertension 16 June 2021 20: 20
      +8
      Quote: Yrec
      Economically, for China, we are ordinary raw material suckers, but from a military point of view, they do us justice. We are a warrior people, not a merchant. Therefore, nepotism, corruption and other delights flourish in our economy.

      How convenient it is to sit naked, sell raw materials, lose population, but consider yourself a warrior nation.
      Before Karabakh, the Armenians also chatted something like that: they say, the Azerbaijanis are traders, and the Armenians are the very "warrior people". What these show-off led - we all saw.
    2. Spring fluff
      Spring fluff 16 June 2021 23: 55
      0
      Warrior people? Rather, history is taught to our people in a somewhat truncated and one-sided manner. Tatar-Mongol yoke, Russian-Polish with the capture of Moscow, Crimean, Russian-Japanese, World War I with the Brest Peace, massive desertion and the collapse of the country, Soviet-Polish, Soviet-Finnish, one hundred thousandth boilers of the beginning of World War II, Afghan, after which again disintegration country, the first Chechen. There were both victories and defeats, history must be adequately perceived.
      And by the way, if anyone does not know, then in August 1900 Russian troops, together with the Americans, British, French and Japanese, took Beijing by storm.
  • Aleksandr21
    Aleksandr21 16 June 2021 16: 04
    0
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    I have long been saying that China is not our friend at all.


    There are no friends in politics in general, and even more so in big politics. Countries have interests .... and at this time, Russia's interests coincide with those of China, and this is enough for cooperation. To be honest, I don't understand the meaning of this article at all, i.e. For the sake of one question, the author sketched a whole article, without conclusions .... just speculate, but what to do? never answered. Not to cooperate with China, because it is not our friend or comrade? So we will follow the path of the DPRK, the West has already blocked our access to technologies, limited our presence in the markets (EU, USA) with the help of sanctions, imposed sectoral sanctions (industry, defense, banking, etc.), imposed sanctions against purchases Russian government debt, etc. you can still enumerate a lot .... how can Russia cope with this? We cannot pull it alone, the war against the global West, it is ahead of us in almost all indicators (the number of consumers, the level of the economy, in technology, etc.), and it did not work to rally the allies (EAEU) around us, they are either going to the West or they look to the East, + conduct an independent foreign policy + are not ready for confrontation with the West ... and what remains for Russia? And China is a real alternative to the collective West, in the PRC (1,4 billion people are consumers of goods and services) + China is ready to cooperate with Russia in the economy / politics / military sphere, and that we should refuse this, because some have some phobias? This is stupid and shortsighted.
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 16 June 2021 17: 26
      +3
      Quote: Aleksandr21
      And China is a real alternative to the collective West, in the PRC (1,4 billion people are consumers of goods and services)

      What do we care about their consumers? They drive their economy, not ours.
      1. Aleksandr21
        Aleksandr21 16 June 2021 17: 30
        -7
        Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        What do we care about their consumers? They drive their economy, not ours.


        If a (conventional) Chinese citizen buys a Russian product or service, then the money goes to us ... is that bad? For example, the supply of agricultural products, seafood, etc. Russia sells a lot to China.
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 16 June 2021 19: 01
          +5
          Quote: Aleksandr21
          Russia sells a lot to China.

          Most of these are raw materials that have not passed the first stage of processing. Otherwise, we buy goods of the last stage of processing, i.e. finished goods. Do you consider it tantamount to trade?
          1. Aleksandr21
            Aleksandr21 16 June 2021 19: 15
            -5
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            Most of these are raw materials that have not passed the first stage of processing. Otherwise, we buy goods of the last stage of processing, i.e. finished goods. Do you consider it tantamount to trade?


            Here you just need to understand that Russia sells what it has (natural resources, various raw materials, agricultural products, food, etc.), and if we talk about finished products ... what can we sell to China? iPhones, computers, cars, electronics, etc. in our country they simply do not produce and all niches are already occupied, but in order to catch up and go to the world level, you need to invest so much money ... it's not a fact that the game is worth the candle, of course the products are different, but in this regard it is difficult for China that something to offer .... he is interested in exactly what we sell (raw materials, oil products, agricultural products, food). And then only one question arises, to trade or not to trade? We will not sell, it means that other countries will be sold, there is little choice here.
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 16 June 2021 19: 21
              +5
              Quote: Aleksandr21
              Here you just need to understand that Russia is selling what it has

              I have already drew analogies above with the provision of intimate services. Prostitutes also believe that they also sell what they have. wink
              The problem is in the paradigm of thinking. Do you understand what I'm talking about? I do not see anything wrong with the trade in resources, but it should be an additional source of government revenue, not the main one.
              Otherwise, the state becomes a hostage of buyers, which is clearly seen in the example of SP-2.
              1. Aleksandr21
                Aleksandr21 16 June 2021 20: 16
                -5
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                The problem is in the paradigm of thinking. Do you understand what I'm talking about? I do not see anything wrong with the trade in resources, but it should be an additional source of government revenue, not the main one.


                I agree, it's just that the main products of Russia (where we are strong) are quite specific .... for example, we are leaders in nuclear energy, Rosatom is a world leader, is building nuclear power plants in China, Turkey, Bangladesh, etc. The nuclear icebreaker fleet - no one else in the world has such a thing. Weapons: Russia is a world supplier of various weapons, in the military engine building we have something to offer (the same to China), helicopter manufacturing. in rocketry, we are in the lead, and so on. - it's just that these products are not for the average consumer, for example, I strongly doubt that the middle class in China needs an armed fighter to overcome traffic jams in Shenzhen or Guangzhou :)
                1. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 16 June 2021 20: 49
                  +3
                  Quote: Aleksandr21
                  for example, we are leaders in Nuclear Energy,

                  Does this somehow affect the influence of Russia in the world and the welfare of its citizens?
                  What does the understanding of the term Great Power mean to you?
                  Moreover, nuclear power is just an echo of the Great Country, nothing more. Otherwise, our economy is a loser.
                  1. Aleksandr21
                    Aleksandr21 17 June 2021 09: 12
                    -2
                    Quote: Ingvar 72
                    Does this somehow affect the influence of Russia in the world and the welfare of its citizens?


                    It influences, let's take Nuclear Power (which we are talking about), Rosatom is building nuclear power plants in Turkey, China, Bangladesh, etc. - and for this it receives money, Rosatom is a Russian state corporation (I think you will not argue about this), and taxes go to the budget from which they are already spent for various purposes (defense industry, medicine, social benefits, pensions, etc.) ). In addition, in Turkey, for example, a nuclear power plant is being created according to the "build-own-operate" model. Russia will sell electricity to Turkey and will receive money for it .... did I answer your question?

                    What does the understanding of the term Great Power mean to you?


                    In my understanding, this is a power that has a significant impact on the world or some region, in the economic / political / military / diplomatic sense.

                    Moreover, nuclear power is just an echo of the Great Country, nothing more. Otherwise, our economy is a loser.


                    It depends on how you look ... if we count in terms of GDP PPP (2020), then we are in 5th place in the world, and the largest in Europe (as an economy), in terms of reserves (especially gold and foreign exchange), can you name many countries in the world that are ahead of Russia? Even those countries that surpass us in terms of GDP face value, few can boast of such reserves, and all this taking into account the sanctions, tough sectoral sanctions that hit the industry, the banking sector, etc. - in other countries, the conditions in this regard are much better and there are no such restrictions.
                2. IS-80_RVGK2
                  IS-80_RVGK2 16 June 2021 23: 45
                  +2
                  Quote: Aleksandr21
                  for example, we are leaders in nuclear energy, Rosatom is a world leader, builds nuclear power plants in China, Turkey, Bangladesh, etc. Nuclear icebreaker fleet - no one else in the world has such a thing. Weapons: Russia is a world supplier of various weapons, in the military engine building we have something to offer (the same to China), helicopter building. in rocketry we are in the leading positions, etc.

                  Well yes. Not everyone was ditched during the bright 90s and the era of getting up from their knees. At the same time, a huge part of budget revenues comes from raw materials exports. Although, yes, they recently announced the good news. Finally, we are going to work on wood processing. Less than half a century has passed.
        2. IS-80_RVGK2
          IS-80_RVGK2 16 June 2021 23: 37
          +1
          Quote: Aleksandr21
          If a (conventional) Chinese citizen buys a Russian product or service, then the money goes to us ... is that bad?

          Of course no. Something else is bad here. For example, the fact that we are now the same Russia, lost in 1917 and found in 1991.
      2. IS-80_RVGK2
        IS-80_RVGK2 16 June 2021 23: 34
        +1
        Well, apparently this person believes that it is possible to sell resources for an infinitely long time, ruin the remnants of industry while shouting about who did not survive that ineffective scoop and consider himself a great power based on the availability of nuclear missiles and the middle class with incomes of 17 thousand rubles.
  • Svarog
    Svarog 16 June 2021 16: 52
    0
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    The current rulers have let the goat into the garden to the fullest.

    Greetings Igor hi There is not one grazing there .. there is a herd in our garden .. the courtyard is a checkpoint, the local princelings are in a hurry to sell everything ..
    Psychology of a woman who decides to finish off (make friends) the enemy by providing intimate services.

    good
  • TermNachTer
    TermNachTer 16 June 2021 17: 47
    -8
    The author somehow forgot that, unlike other countries with which China has territorial disputes, Russia has one small trump card that can calm anyone - the Strategic Missile Forces)))
  • Boris55
    Boris55 17 June 2021 08: 41
    -1
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    I have long been saying that China is not our friend at all.

    Wow, damn it, and the United States tells us: "Do not be friends with China." belay

    Quote: Ingvar 72
    It was not in vain that the USSR held a grouping of troops in the Far East.

    Have you heard the thread in militaristic Japan? laughing

    There are three mature civilizations in the World:
    - European civilization;
    - the civilization of the East;
    - and Russian civilization.

    Depending on who is friends with whom, those third and wet.
    Tsarist Russia was friends with the West - China was soaked, Tsarist Russia is no longer there.
    Stalin's Russia was friends with China - we are the first economy in the world;
    Western civilization was friends with the civilization of the East - the USSR no longer exists.

    Do you really want the West to befriend the East against us?
  • Proton
    Proton 16 June 2021 15: 15
    +6
    Roman, thanks for the article.
    I agree with your thought - for China we are not friends, but partners (at best).
    Often it is not customary to talk about this, but the Chinese (to be more precise, the Han people) are still nationalists. True, they themselves do not spread much about this, but from this they do not become cosmopolitans.
    1. New Year day
      New Year day 16 June 2021 15: 41
      0
      Quote: Proton
      for China we are not friends, but partners

      Not partners, but temporary fellow travelers, I would not like to be suckers.
  • General failure
    General failure 16 June 2021 15: 18
    +4
    Duc, the dilemma is simple - a choice between bad (China) and very bad (USA).
    The negotiability of the United States, or rather its complete absence, is not a secret at all. Therefore, if we are to negotiate with anyone, it is with China, because it is impossible to negotiate with the United States.
    Ida, all these agreements are not "eternal friendship" with kissing on the gums, but a temporary union. Another time will come - other agreements and other unions will be needed.

    Moreover, the ancient wisdom says: if you have two rivals, one is stronger, the other is weaker - you need to support the weakest. Then, together weakening the strongest (USA), you can start a mutual showdown. Quite possibly in alliance with the United States.
    1. Shopping Mall
      Shopping Mall 16 June 2021 15: 27
      0
      Quote: General Failure
      Duc, the dilemma is simple - a choice between bad (China) and very bad (USA).
      The negotiability of the United States, or rather its complete absence, is not a secret at all. Therefore, if we are to negotiate with anyone, it is with China, because it is impossible to negotiate with the United States.
      Ida, all these agreements are not "eternal friendship" with kissing on the gums, but a temporary union. Another time will come - other agreements and other unions will be needed.

      Moreover, the ancient wisdom says: if you have two rivals, one is stronger, the other is weaker - you need to support the weakest. Then, together weakening the strongest (USA), you can start a mutual showdown. Quite possibly in alliance with the United States.


      This is the only way China behaves, but we, on the contrary, the economy is weak, we are losing more and more technologies, but we are "acting" for two, distracting the United States from China.
      1. General failure
        General failure 16 June 2021 15: 41
        -2
        but we are "acting" for two, distracting the United States from China.

        Are we performing? Who staged the fascist coup in Ukraine in 2014? Are we? We managed to successfully fend off the greatest harm from it, but far from completely.
        The United States is working quite well against us and against China, distract, do not distract.
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 16 June 2021 16: 04
          -1
          Quote: General Failure
          The United States is working quite well against us and against China, distract, do not distract.

          The USA only sucks like a tapeworm, and gives nothing back.
    2. New Year day
      New Year day 16 June 2021 15: 47
      +3
      Quote: General Failure
      The negotiability of the United States, or rather its complete absence, is not a secret at all. Therefore, if we are to negotiate with anyone, it is with China, because it is impossible to negotiate with the United States.

      And what agreement with China is beneficial for us?
      For gas, we sell it cheaper than Belarus. We will start selling water from Baikal soon. Vooruzheniye-copying stupidly and then we are thrown away.
      Taking advantage of its bad relations with the United States, China is simply dumping us - and nothing can be done about it. The worse we are with the rest of the world, the more profitable it is for China. China is interested in our blockade, because then it remains the only one.
      In fact, the economies of China and the United States are so intertwined that they will be forced to negotiate
      1. General failure
        General failure 16 June 2021 16: 06
        -4
        > Vooruzhenie- stupidly copy
        What did they copy? DShK and Kalash? The planes were tried unlicensed - it turned out to be an epic refusal.

        > We will start selling water from Baikal soon
        Eat your spreading cranberries yourself.

        > In fact, the economies of China and the United States are so intertwined that they will have to negotiate
        Oh, how nicely they agreed in Anchorage. Especially in Taiwan. And with the economy - the trade balance in whose favor? That's the same. That is, it turns out that the Chinese economy is eating the American one. It is beneficial to us - rather yes than no, because it weakens the United States.

        > The worse we are with the rest of the world
        And what can we get from China that the US satellites refuse to sell to us?

        Well, in any case - we have a disgusting relationship with the United States. Will we be better off if we ruin our relationship with China as well?
        1. IS-80_RVGK2
          IS-80_RVGK2 16 June 2021 23: 48
          0
          Quote: General Failure
          What did they copy? DShK and Kalash?

          A spaceship is not quite a Kalash, or rather not at all.
          Quote: General Failure
          Eat your spreading cranberries yourself.

          Do you offer to eat a domestic trampoline?
    3. TermNachTer
      TermNachTer 16 June 2021 17: 49
      -4
      A very smart approach is to balance. With China against the United States, then with India against China, and then it will be seen.
      1. 2 Level Advisor
        2 Level Advisor 16 June 2021 20: 58
        -2
        two-three-vectors in one mustachioed comrade just not long ago almost brought everything to the brink .. also balanced everything ..
        1. TermNachTer
          TermNachTer 16 June 2021 21: 01
          -4
          The scale of the comrade, slegonets is not the same. And not only one of it. A bit farther south also lived a citizen, a multi-vector lover. Only the alignment is such that they are not players, but pawns. Russia is a player.
  • Wedmak
    Wedmak 16 June 2021 15: 19
    -2
    If China makes claims on the territory, you can slightly remind him where and how he would be, if the USSR did not interfere in the war with Japan in August 1945 ... No matter how many Chinese were slaughtered by the Japanese and whose Manchuria would be. Who helped him with nuclear weapons, tank building, aircraft building ...
    1. Shopping Mall
      Shopping Mall 16 June 2021 15: 25
      -1
      Quote: Wedmak
      If China makes claims on the territory, you can slightly remind him where and how he would be, if the USSR did not interfere in the war with Japan in August 1945 ... No matter how many Chinese were slaughtered by the Japanese and whose Manchuria would be. Who helped him with nuclear weapons, tank building, aircraft building ...


      "You cannot become famous for good deeds" - we helped a lot of people, and now they are NATO members. Here, just like Machiavelli's - "It is better to instill fear than love, because love is based on a feeling of gratitude, which can be dropped at any moment, but fear remains forever."

      It was necessary then, and even now, to hit everyone harder, whoever turned up by the arm, so that they would be silent in a rag. And if you don't have the strength, then keep silent yourself, and not show off as Poseidons and Petrels, making yourself a "convenient enemy".
      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak 16 June 2021 15: 38
        0
        To beat is certainly fast and reliable, but not always profitable. Although you are right in some ways, you should be tougher with active enemies. With the same Ukraine, shells fell from them on our territory (remember, it was like that), in response to destroy the nearest artillery crews. It's the same in the political sphere: they interfere, punish.
        1. Shopping Mall
          Shopping Mall 17 June 2021 09: 41
          0
          Quote: Wedmak
          To beat is certainly fast and reliable, but not always profitable. Although you are right in some ways, you should be tougher with active enemies. With the same Ukraine, shells fell from them on our territory (remember, it was like that), in response to destroy the nearest artillery crews. It's the same in the political sphere: they interfere, punish.


          Saakashvili at one time had to be overwhelmed, perhaps then there would have been no events in Ukraine. The United States knocks down everyone who speaks to them (who can).
          1. Wedmak
            Wedmak 17 June 2021 09: 45
            -1
            had to fill up

            How would we be different from the United States then? Another country of robbers and robbers?
            1. Shopping Mall
              Shopping Mall 18 June 2021 07: 51
              +1
              Quote: Wedmak
              had to fill up

              How would we be different from the United States then? Another country of robbers and robbers?


              First, they attacked first, you can't let go of this, so that others don't want to.

              And secondly, the world is cruel and real, and I believe that our interests also need to be strongly promoted, and in this regard, we must take an example from the United States, as well as from China. Otherwise we just help everyone, write off debts, save them, and then they shit on our heads in gratitude.

              I want to live in a country that is feared (synonymous with respect), and they think not "how to grab a piece from it or something else to fuck" but "just not me, just not me."
    2. Torins
      Torins 16 June 2021 15: 26
      +1
      They do not owe anything to anyone for this - they think so.
    3. paul3390
      paul3390 16 June 2021 15: 33
      +3
      A service already rendered does not cost anything. Only we naively, for some reason, think differently ..
      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak 16 June 2021 15: 34
        -1
        Well, if so, next time we may not provide such a service.
        1. paul3390
          paul3390 16 June 2021 15: 38
          +1
          We would have someone like that now ... What is the next time ...
          1. Wedmak
            Wedmak 16 June 2021 15: 43
            -2
            So there is no such power. China cannot cope with the United States on its own. We, too. To inflict unacceptable damage is yes, but it will be mutual and will backfire all over the world.
            Most likely the world will come to the 3-4 polar system. This is if the EU does not wither under US pressure. Otherwise, NATO will grow and then an alliance with China is inevitable. And again we will come to a bipolar world, and with even greater tension.
            1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 16 June 2021 17: 10
              -2
              Quote: Wedmak
              And again we will come to a bipolar world,

              And who have you identified at the poles? USA vs China Russia - is that right? Are you serious?
          2. tralflot1832
            tralflot1832 16 June 2021 18: 19
            -5
            Europe has gone crazy with this green energy. China staged a showdown with Australia, completely zeroed coal supplies from Australia. Who helped him in this matter, and the coal has grown in price in the world. Ask Russian miners how they feel about China. hi
    4. New Year day
      New Year day 16 June 2021 15: 48
      0
      Quote: Wedmak
      If China makes claims on the territory, you can easily remind him where and how he would be, do not interfere with the USSR in the war with Japan in August 1945 ..

      So, what is next? He will remember Khrushchev. After these memories was Damansky
    5. businessv
      businessv 16 June 2021 15: 49
      +3
      Quote: Wedmak
      Who helped him with nuclear weapons, tank building, aircraft building ...
      I don’t think he forgot it, just as I don’t think that this reminder can help us in any way!
    6. Bolt cutter
      Bolt cutter 16 June 2021 16: 07
      -2
      Who helped him with nuclear weapons, tank building, aircraft building ...
      So they have already thanked their assistants. In Damansky.
    7. Revival
      Revival 16 June 2021 16: 45
      +5
      And then they will cry from such a heartfelt speech and will be ashamed
    8. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 16 June 2021 17: 07
      +1
      Quote: Wedmak
      you can easily remind him where and how he would be if the USSR did not intervene in the war with Japan in August 1945 ... How many of his Chinese were slaughtered by the Japanese and whose Manchuria would be. Who helped him with nuclear weapons, tank building, aircraft building ...

      What a pitiful babble? You seriously decided to get the Chinese with these sentiments? Will they cry and give hugs?
    9. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 16 June 2021 23: 49
      -1
      Quote: Wedmak
      If China makes a claim on the territory

      Then he won't care about your reminders.
  • arhitroll
    arhitroll 16 June 2021 15: 23
    +1
    We don’t have to give us the idea of ​​who we are friends with - it will reach the elite that it’s not cool to sit by the world’s bucket, and then ...
    1. businessv
      businessv 16 June 2021 15: 56
      +1
      Quote: arhitroll
      it will reach the elite that it is not cool to sit by the world's bucket and then ...
      And then she will take her head and, with screams ay-yay-yay, will start pulling the country out of the ass, into which she herself drove it ?! You're not naive enough to believe it, are you? And then, even if our "elite" (the term used in livestock breeding is very suitable for her!) Takes up its head, it will be just a gesture - to correct the current situation in the country, there must be brains in the head, burdened with knowledge of the subject, why our rulers, with a few exceptions, are definitely not present! smile
  • Doccor18
    Doccor18 16 June 2021 15: 26
    +6
    But Russia was the only country that ceded territory to China.

    Yes, it's not the only one ...
    No, for the role of a gas station country, China normally designed us like that. Nothing worse than European countries.

    No one "did not formalize" us, they themselves ... achieved this on their own, stagnation in everything except the military-industrial complex ... And the result is natural.
  • New Year day
    New Year day 16 June 2021 15: 34
    -1
    China is Erdogan, but for now it is gaining strength.
  • sidoroff
    sidoroff 16 June 2021 15: 35
    +8
    somehow in the year 1912 Kaiser Wilhelm advised the minister of the Republic of Ingushetia Sazonov to arm China so that he would become a bulwark against Japan. to which Sazonov wisely remarked that if between two
    countries of 7000 miles of common border, then sooner or later these weapons will be turned against Russia. Khrushchov is not even accused, but the fact that he imprudently handed
    nuclear weapons to China - do not remember.
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 16 June 2021 17: 12
      -1
      Quote: sidoroff
      but what he imprudently handed
      nuclear weapons to China - do not remember.

      But they remember that he offended Fidel)
  • viva_cuba
    viva_cuba 16 June 2021 15: 45
    +12
    Reptiles are not grateful, not empathetic, and have no friends. For them, everything is food.
  • Woodman
    Woodman 16 June 2021 15: 50
    -3
    It's funny ... I guessed the author by the title of the article ... Previously, this required starting to read ...
    The volume of China's GDP was estimated (Global-finances.ru) by the IMF at $ 11 billion. The same figure for Russia is $ 221 billion.
    In 2020, China's GDP was $ 14 billion. Russia has $ 720 billion.
    Interesting numbers. China's indicators are higher than those of Russia in about the same proportion as the population.
    and built. At your own expense.
    Built at your own expense? This means that you do not need to share profits with investors.
    And they take, frankly, not so hot. The workload of Power of Siberia does not exceed 55%.

    Gas supplies to China are going beyond the plan, beyond the contract. This applies to both annual volumes and daily supplies. On some days in 2020, our supplies to China exceeded Gazprom's contractual obligations by 25%, "he said. (Miller)

    Those. 55% of the gas pipeline's current load is the planned load. And the workload is increased to full in accordance with the contractual obligations
    The company intends to reach the design capacity of 38 billion cubic meters by 2025

    And at what price China buys gas is still not really known.
    the cost of gas under the agreement with China has a time delay of half a year and is formed, among other things, by the cost of oil at that period.
    Those. there is no big secret at prices. Although some managers should be jailed ...
  • businessv
    businessv 16 June 2021 15: 59
    +5
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    I have long been saying that China is not our friend at all.

    Most sane people claim this, but what to do about it? The only way out is to change the situation from within, raising our country to the proper level, for which our ruling elite is clearly not ready!
    1. ximkim
      ximkim 16 June 2021 16: 09
      +2
      Not ready and not willing.
      You have to work really.
  • Trickster
    Trickster 16 June 2021 16: 05
    -4
    Another jeans, paid for by the West, which accuses the Chinese of the crimes of this very West.
  • ximkim
    ximkim 16 June 2021 16: 08
    +3
    Does a dragon need a bear?
    Of course you need.
    After all, a bear: it is a lot of protein, bile for medicine, a skin as a trophy and decoration, etc.
  • Petrik66
    Petrik66 16 June 2021 16: 17
    +1
    Unfortunately, again, continuous agitation. China is not in very good shape, as is the rest of the world. Believing Chinese statistics - deceiving yourself, technological superiority? And in what? yes - G5, and what else. If the Americans take the Chinese seriously - the fight against the theft of technology, then the Chinese will not seem a little. Chinese army and navy - oh, we are afraid. Better remember the history of purchasing Chinese engines for our frigates. They have problems, like everyone else, and it is not necessary to immediately give them such advances. the blind man said - let's get it done There the Ukrainians threw them with a motor sich and did not disdain. China has not grown to become a hegemon - so far there is nothing to offer except money. And their fun life is just beginning. China was the main beneficiary of the Cold War - markets were opened, technology was provided, etc. we'll see. The championship has always been paid for with blood - one's own and someone else's, and not with money.
  • Shahno
    Shahno 16 June 2021 17: 08
    -1
    Quote: Svarog
    Quote: Aleksandr21

    What is wrong in this relationship? Just wondering. In my opinion, it is great that Russia and China have such a high level of interaction and, one might say, a strategic alliance.

    How exactly is this interaction expressed? Can you explain?
    Well, about the strategic alliance you are strong .. Here is the definition:
    Union of States, Coalition is a political, military-political or economic alliance of several states, created to protect common interests, ensure joint security, collective defense or for the coordinated preparation and conduct of a coalition war.

    Where is the strategic alliance here?

    Then the strategic alliance is usually made by those who have long-term benefits.
    It is not clear what it is for Russian-Chinese relations so far.
    There is competition, there are concerns about the territories. Development mechanisms generally do not overlap from the economic point of view.
    The only plus is let's be friends against the West, not seriously. The Chinese are too ambitious a partner.
  • Sailor
    Sailor 16 June 2021 17: 25
    +2
    Good article, and most importantly relevant.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Old Horseradish
    Old Horseradish 16 June 2021 17: 37
    +5
    With such an "ally" enemies are not necessary by definition.
  • Marachuh
    Marachuh 16 June 2021 17: 51
    +3
    I have a friend, a priest, and he also said that China in the future will seize D. East to the Urals, but not by war, but by expansion. And who said that there are friends in the world of politics? There are temporary travel companions, period! While you are strong there are a lot of "friends", but as you become weak, your former "friends" will be the first to peck you.
  • Dart2027
    Dart2027 16 June 2021 19: 22
    -1
    Another one.
  • Shahno
    Shahno 16 June 2021 20: 14
    0
    Quote: Hyperion
    Quote: Aleksandr21
    The West will overtake us for many years to come ... as happened with North Korea and Iran

    Well, you compared ... Russia is richer in resources and brains. Yes, and the Soviet groundwork - oh, what was it. That is, it was not possible to start everything from scratch. But polymers of that - bye-bye.
    Quote: Aleksandr21
    We sell different products ... + NPP - Rosatom builds in China, and we cooperate in other areas ... is that bad?

    It's good. That is not all sold yet. But, I repeat: there can be no talk of an equal union. The bear is not a dragon's comrade.
    "Said the cat to the mouse
    - Let's be friends with you
    And be this friendship
    Treasure to death ... "(c)

    # Well, you compared ... Russia is richer in resources and brains. "
    So what. How was the wealth used?
  • nikvic46
    nikvic46 16 June 2021 20: 25
    -1
    It depends only on us how to build relations with China. Perhaps this is now a question that worries many. If there was complete trust in such unions. Or maybe we do not understand something.
  • Vsevolod
    Vsevolod 16 June 2021 20: 54
    -2
    Does a bear need a dragon? That is what the "Westerners", that the "Easterners" are smeared with one world - Russophobes, traitors.
  • Usher
    Usher 17 June 2021 00: 00
    -3
    I didn't even read, the next "everything was gone" the author is not even in the subject.
    But China does not need money in the direct sense. China needs territory and resources. And the territory is even more important, the PRC has disputes with all its neighbors, Japan, India, the Philippines, Vietnam. If it came to human casualties in clashes with India for a piece of the Aksaychin salt desert, which is located at an altitude of 5 thousand meters, what to talk about on the topic of any islands, both normal and artificial?
    The author, drink yada, you do not even understand why there is a dispute in the Himalayas. And what are the bulk islands for? And tell tales about the map to the Urals to others. Taiga is cut down not by the Chinese, but by their own. They are sold by local officials and "black" lumberjacks. No need to sculpt fairy tales here, have you even been to Siberia yourself?
  • ratcatcher
    ratcatcher 17 June 2021 02: 19
    0
    1999: “And the President of the Russian Federation confirmed this logic by continuing his criticism:“ There has never been and never will be that Bill Clinton alone dictated to the whole world how to live, how to work, how to work, how to rest. ”In addition, Yeltsin sent Clinton another an important "message": Russia and China have agreed that "a multipolar world is the basis for everything," and - attention to the Washington strategists - "we will dictate the world how to live, and not he alone."
    So the attempt to turn to the East has not begun now. These attempts arise as soon as the RF repels the West. And even then they liked to talk about the "Minsk-Moscow-Beijing" axis.
    Works average.
  • pylon101
    pylon101 17 June 2021 08: 24
    0
    One would like to note: isn't this what Biden was talking about today, after his meeting with Putin: "They are in a very, very difficult situation."
    I would like to think that no one in the Kremlin has any illusions about China.
  • coramba
    coramba 17 June 2021 08: 43
    +2
    We are always being told: Russia could not, Russia gave it away .......... What does Russia mean? Russia has nothing to do with it, and the Foreign Ministry, which consists of officials with dual citizenship and who have homes abroad and families living in London and America! This is the reason for the failure of our policy!
  • vavilon
    vavilon 17 June 2021 09: 41
    0
    The author, of course, went too far, as for our former allies, it was not they who betrayed us, but these are all former Soviet republics, I'm not even talking about other countries that were oriented towards Russia-USSR and now, thanks only to China, our liberal system is still keeps afloat, or else China would have been "devoured" by the Anglo-Saxon world for a long time
    Yes, and China, I think, would not have resisted alone if it weren't for Russia.
  • nikvic46
    nikvic46 17 June 2021 15: 18
    +2
    In the Eastern game of GO there is this kind of game. All stones are of the same color. It is played only by the masters. Those who watch this game lose their thread after a dozen moves. This is what international politics looks like now. A lot is not available to us. We are ordinary observers.
  • sleeve
    sleeve 18 June 2021 05: 48
    -1
    There are a lot of maps to draw. I once heard that there is no America's General Staff on the secret maps. In all this "Sinology" kotovasia that permeates our space, I do not want to highlight anything. Everyone who has access to the Internet can not help but periodically have unpretentious questions about reading a "critical" article and going to the network for information. For example. 75 million Russians (working and moreover officially) make GDP based on PPP only 6 times less than 770 million working Chinese. The ratio of the gold and foreign exchange reserves of the PRC and the Russian Federation becomes "correct" only when combined through the PPP filter (since in "absolute finance" 3,1 trillion dollars turn out to be less epic than our 0,6 relative to GDP). Moreover, the Chinese economy is considered super efficient in using everything from people to resources. Regarding the Power of Siberia, I simply do not want to enter into a discussion, since for the whole time, for example, I could not get a clear answer why, having the total amount of the contract (400 billion cu. we cannot understand whether the project is profitable without even raising the issue of creating additional production facilities. In general, without raising any questions. $ 1140 for 350 cubes. Hmm. What about the European "operational" price? 1000 ... Hmm. In short, for all positions, I personally always have simple questions. My illusion about the greatness of the PRC is bursting at the seams literally every second of such "campaigns for info". What should I do? How can I personally get along with pictures of reality based on enemy analytics and arithmetic operations and, without doubt, the invincible image of the PRC based on .... And on what? By 240 billion population and closed reports and information space?)))
  • Max Yakushko
    Max Yakushko 18 June 2021 19: 52
    0
    Well, no matter how the author says anything new. Many military technologies are not sold to China. We are not friends so temporary allies that we would not be devoured separately. And in the future, yes, China will be a huge problem for us.
  • Conjurer
    Conjurer 20 June 2021 15: 46
    0
    The United States also has a bunch of allies. Unlike China and Russia, which, to put it mildly, are not rich in this. Allies.

    The author needs to understand a very simple question. In international relations, the concept of "ally" is very different from that in personal communication. This difference is especially sharp among the bearers of the Russian mentality.
    When you try to analyze international relations, you do not need to climb into someone else's monastery with your charter, switch to the generally accepted one. Then there will be no such inflated expectations and, accordingly, no such hysteria.
  • Andrey Sushkov
    Andrey Sushkov 8 July 2021 19: 30
    0
    To the Dragon the Bear and figs did not give up, eats a lot, does not like to work, tears the hives apart. But Mishkin's Lair of the Dragon will be very satisfied ...