MH17 trial: eyewitness accounts of missile launch site do not match

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At the trial in the Dutch city of The Hague in the case of a Boeing 2014 civilian plane of Malaysian Airlines shot down in 777 over Donbas, for the first time, they heard the testimony of witnesses to the launch of a Buk missile on the airliner. The interrogation was conducted by an International Investigation Team with the participation of an investigating judge.

Interviewed 20 people who claimed to have seen a trail in the sky left by a rocket launched from the ground. Of these people, 12 heard a noise or explosion, and eight others, in addition to sounds, saw flying ammunition.



At the same time, the testimony of witnesses about the launch site of the missile that shot down Boeing does not match. Most of them pointed to the vicinity of Snezhnoye. At the same time, some of the eyewitnesses named a more accurate place - near Saur-Mogila, in the area of ​​the urban-type settlement of Pervomaisky Snezhnyansky City Council. Both then and now, the area was under the control of the DPR.

But there were two witnesses who claimed that the launch was carried out from the positions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, which were located in the area of ​​Amvrosiyevka. The court in the MH17 case in an amazing way (although ... why "surprising", taking into account the bias of the process) did not take them into account, considering that it was too far for the complex, although from this point the missile could well have hit the plane.

But the most important thing is that the court is studying the only version according to which the Boeing was shot down by the Russian Buk complex from the territory controlled by the DPR. The options for attacking the Ukrainian Air Force aircraft and the strike of the air defense complex belonging to the Ukrainian Armed Forces are not even considered.

The situation could be clearly clarified by the United States. The US military claims to have images from space showing the launch site. They claim that the rocket was launched from the territory of the DPR, but the picture itself is not shown, citing secrecy. Typical arguments from the series "We have proofs, but we cannot present them to you, since they are secret."
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    214 comments
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    1. +9
      9 2021 June
      And the court for whom and who is being tried .... is not clear. Well, yes, Russia is to blame.
      1. +4
        9 2021 June
        Western democracy is like that, its ideals are contradictory, if you don't fuck in the ass, then you
        ... gay (in Russian) laughing
      2. -2
        9 2021 June
        According to the people who collected the corpses, a significant part of the corpses was "stale. That is, the Boeing passengers were dead even before the tragedy.
        1. 0
          9 2021 June
          You can't prove it.
          1. -2
            9 2021 June
            The options for attacking the Ukrainian Air Force aircraft and the strike of an air defense complex belonging to the Ukrainian Armed Forces are not even considered.

            And hearing witnesses from Amvrosiyevka (where the positions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were located) is not a consideration by the court of the version about the involvement of the Armed Forces of Ukraine?
          2. 0
            10 2021 June
            I don't think they gave exactly those corpses
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. +2
                  11 2021 June
                  It is ridiculous to listen and read the reports of this deceitful, unjust "court"! With a clever look, they consider Internet fakes, listen to fake anonymous witnesses, discard all inconvenient and refuting the version of the "Russian trace" evidence, facts, evidence, questions that can shake the invented version. The "witnesses" of the "rocket launch" are being interrogated ... Was there a missile launch? from the ground at all? And could the militias even shoot down high flying Malaysian Boeing? And who could shoot down that Boeing?

                  The militiamen obviously could not: they did not have and do not have airplanes, they only had air defense equipment for low flying helicopter planes, but a faulty Buk missile launcher without command post and target detection station. That is why they invented in the West an obviously delusional story, similar to the "poisoning of the Skripals", the "explosion of Czech warehouses", which was already blown to smithereens normal experts, about the Russian SDU (also a single one, without KP and SOC), which was rolled in from somewhere from Russia and quickly drove off there.

                  Who could to shoot down a Boeing? The Ukrainian Armed Forces - it is easy: they had several batteries of "Bukov" of a complete set in the Donbas at that time and planes nearby. And the Ukrainian SOC "Bukov" actively worked for several days before (training? Preparing?) The shooting down of a Malaysian plane, on the day of the downing, and Ukrainian planes flew. Voloshin, for example, took off with air-to-air missiles, and returned - without them. From which Ukraine completely disowns and urgently withdrew those batteries and aircraft immediately AFTER. Subsequently, the self-shot (?) Voloshin was instantly awarded the next day - August 18. For what feat? Maybe someone will tell you what purpose Voloshin was oriented to on August 17, if the militia had no planes and no planes at all? WHY the "honest" investigation and court "believed" Ukraine that neither batteries nor aircraft NOT was and ignored it?
                  1. +2
                    12 2021 June
                    Two facts provide indirect confirmation that it was the Ukrainians who shot down the Malaysian Boeing.
                    First, the Americans are stubborn, already Seven yearsrefuse to provide genuine pictures confirming the destruction of the Boeing by the militia, claiming unfounded that the Boeing was destroyed by the militia. If this were the case, then they would certainly have immediately presented and published evidence of what happened to the plane shot down by the Iranians near Tehran, when the Americans showed pictures already at second day.
                    Second, the militias then attacked, and the Ukrainians retreated, it was the Ukrainians who needed something to stop the militia. And this something happened. It was the downed Malaysian Boeing and a chorus of unsubstantiated accusations against the militia and Russia by the West, which stopped the offensive.
      3. +5
        9 2021 June
        But most importantly, the court is studying the only version,

        And this is, indeed, the most important thing!
        This is not a trial ...
      4. 0
        9 2021 June
        Quote: Titus_2
        And the court for whom and who is being tried .... is not clear. Well, yes, Russia is to blame.

        I have already said that Donbas and Russia are not subject to jurisdiction due to hostilities, even if they actually shot down a civilian liner. From the point of view of air defense, any aircraft that does not respond to a request and outside the civilian corridor is a target, just a target that must be shot down.
        And about the courts. The trees were burning. The shining Moscow City Court was built 15 years ago, the new white-stone Babushkinsky court was built 5 years ago, and they are idle. These ultraliberasts would be fooled by an absentee life sentence
      5. 0
        10 2021 June
        We have proofs, but we cannot present them to you, since they are secret

        In a civilized society, is it customary for women to take their word for it?))
        1. +1
          10 2021 June
          Well, consider a scoundrel as gentlemen, do not respect yourself. let them first prove it ... although there is evidence ... if a gentleman in the pope, then he is not a waiting man ..
      6. +3
        10 2021 June
        Quote: Titus_2
        And the court for whom and who is being tried .... is not clear. Well, yes, Russia is to blame.

        It cannot be otherwise. The USA, when they said they had pictures, lit Europe like suckers. Almost immediately, sanctions were imposed, and now, if it emerges that the plane was shot down by Ukraine, then they fly into specific money to compensate us for illegal sanctions. And this is many billions of currency. Who will go for it. Therefore, at any cost to prove that Russia is to blame. Nothing personal just business.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. 0
          11 2021 June
          Sanctions themselves have long been a way to monopolize the market. Why compete when you can just knock you out of the market?)
      7. 0
        10 2021 June
        Quote: Titus_2
        And the court for whom and who is being tried .... is not clear. Well, yes, Russia is to blame.


        They will again pull the owl onto the globe. They know this business like no one else.
    2. +14
      9 2021 June
      arguments from the series "We have evidence, but we cannot present them to you, since they are secret
      ... What can we talk about when the perpetrators have already been appointed and none of them needs the truth.
      1. +3
        9 2021 June
        In an interesting time we live, how will it all end?
        1. +14
          9 2021 June
          You can react in different ways ... the most rational thing is to put a black mark on those who are clearly our enemy and slow down their interests wherever possible and accessible.
          1. +5
            9 2021 June
            Yes, it would not be bad, but something is not yet very observed ...
            1. +2
              9 2021 June
              Unfortunately, many things are not observed, even the most necessary.
        2. 0
          9 2021 June
          Victor, it will end as usual what sanctions this court does not give a damn about everything important salary
          1. +7
            9 2021 June
            Long game. We have important, real things to do yesterday! We are at their trial, so look from the side and twirl a finger at the temple.
            And the sanctions ... well, they themselves must do everything that we need. There are opportunities, it is necessary to clean up the manager / managerial layer and do business without being distracted by any nonsense.
            1. 0
              10 2021 June
              the entire layer must be torn off with a file and etched with acid, otherwise, no matter how ...
      2. +1
        10 2021 June
        Quote: rocket757
        arguments from the series "We have evidence, but we cannot present them to you, since they are secret
        ... What can we talk about when the perpetrators have already been appointed and none of them needs the truth.


        Thailand is likely to have a lot of uncomfortable questions for such a court. And the court will also have to answer these questions.
        1. 0
          10 2021 June
          Come on, in a friendly crowd such dull ones will be driven under the bench ... Not from Thailand, Malaysians.
          1. 0
            10 2021 June
            Quote: rocket757
            Come on, in a friendly crowd such dull ones will be driven under the bench ... Not from Thailand, Malaysians.


            That is unlikely. Business for any will be sewn with white thread and completely powder the brain will not work.
            1. 0
              10 2021 June
              This is what can be safely presented to the Westerners, this is that they have not been trying for a long time to give their arrivals, wishlist, judges, even a hint of justice, objectivity ... and they do not intend to pay attention to the appearance, even objective.
              There are simply more of them, they are stronger, so they do what they want, as they want ... so I propose to bend our line, spitting on all their displays.
              They have their own wedding, we have our own ... long game, let's see who will have the last laugh?
              1. 0
                10 2021 June
                Quote: rocket757
                This is what can be safely presented to the Westerners, this is that they have not been trying for a long time to give their arrivals, wishlist, judges, even a hint of justice, objectivity ... and they do not intend to pay attention to the appearance, even objective.
                There are simply more of them, they are stronger, so they do what they want, as they want ... so I propose to bend our line, spitting on all their displays.
                They have their own wedding, we have our own ... long game, let's see who will have the last laugh?


                You can present them with a lot of things. It would be better to immediately "present" a fist between the eyes. But even such impudence also has its limits.
    3. +2
      9 2021 June
      I wonder, when will the Americans show these pictures? Why all this gimmick is clear.
      1. +10
        9 2021 June
        Quote: Alexander 3
        when will the Americans show these pictures?

        Yes, even if without the Americans, WHERE IS THE DISPATCHER, SENDING THE AIRCRAFT TO THAT ZONE? !!!
        1. +5
          9 2021 June
          Well, yes, dispatcher records must be kept and preserved.
        2. 0
          9 2021 June
          [Quote] [WHERE IS THE DISPATCHER, SENDING THE AIRCRAFT TO THAT ZONE? !! / quote] .... how where ... he quit retroactively on his own ... this practice existed until 14 years old ... and then the devil himself ordered ... there is nothing to be surprised at .... wow, this is a cesspool ... and what is obliquely Cholantsy ... well, when their prosecutors and judges become former ... they pour out their souls in their memoirs
        3. 0
          9 2021 June
          WHERE IS THE DISPATCHER SENDING THE AIRCRAFT TO THAT ZONE? !!!

          So they wrote right there on the VO supposedly the dispatcher either died or killed himself, in short, he is not.
          1. 0
            9 2021 June
            According to our media, there were already at least 2 dispatchers, 2 pilots who shot down. Everyone died.
            Only Poroshenko is alive, allegedly personally supervising the aiming by phone ...

            All nonsense ...
          2. 0
            9 2021 June
            The dispatcher was interrogated
            Ukrainian air traffic controller Petrenko, who, according to some publications, mysteriously disappeared after July 17, 2014, was heard as a witness during the investigation. Following these testimonies, the investigation team and the prosecutor's office concluded that there was no serious reason for further investigation of the military aircraft version.
            1. 0
              10 2021 June
              There was also a dispatcher girl. Where is she?
              1. -1
                10 2021 June
                I don't know the details of her personal life.
                But Anna Petrenko is not a man, that's for sure.
                All were interrogated by several Ukrainian dispatchers - Alshin, Babich, Kalinichenko, Kaplynov, Klets, Kuznetsov, Lazareva, Maksimenko, Petrenko, Polyak, Sokolenko, Yevtushenko.
                This was stated by the prosecutor Ward Ferdinandrusse at the hearing of the criminal chamber of the District Court of The Hague.
                Who are women, who are girls, and who are men - I don't know. :)
                The technical specialist Volkov was also interrogated - later he was exchanged for the Ukrainians, so he is in Russia somewhere.
          3. 0
            10 2021 June
            Yeah, fell on the knife myself, like in an old joke lol
        4. +2
          9 2021 June
          either the beach or the worms
        5. +1
          9 2021 June
          Quote: Egoza
          Yes, even if without the Americans, WHERE IS THE DISPATCHER, SENDING THE AIRCRAFT TO THAT ZONE? !!!

          Their guts are thin to avenge their family, therefore they are lively
      2. +1
        9 2021 June
        I wonder when the Americans will show these pictures
        ... General Negro Cowen has to wait ... he can show cones ... and pictures from space are a trifle ... and Mickey Mouse can be drawn
      3. +1
        10 2021 June
        will never show. if there was something to show, then they would immediately show.
    4. +5
      9 2021 June
      Typical arguments from the series "We have proofs, but we cannot present them to you, since they are secret."


      Let's see, while this is not a judgment, but a judgment seat ...
    5. +18
      9 2021 June
      As in a joke about a trial in the same America 100 years ago: the judge, and where is the accused?
      Judge, you are familiar with the case, do not be distracted, but we have already hanged that negro
    6. +4
      9 2021 June
      How many years will the Dutch brazenly falsify eyewitness statements? After all, it is clear that the truth is not this trial, but only Russia and the republics need the truth! Declare these judges on the international wanted list, and bring them by force to Donbass, let them get out there if they can!
    7. +5
      9 2021 June
      Witnesses can say whatever they want, the facts can be presented very different, but all the same, "experts" will speak at the end who will interpret all this in the right direction.
    8. +1
      9 2021 June
      Another highley like ...
    9. +1
      9 2021 June
      But the United States has no images from space.
    10. -25
      9 2021 June
      The situation could be clearly clarified by the United States. The US military claims to have images from space showing the launch site. They claim that the rocket was launched from the territory of the DPR, but the picture itself is not shown, citing secrecy. Typical arguments from the series "We have proofs, but we cannot present them to you, since they are secret."

      Pictures of cosm. US intelligence was shown the otorizirovanny ships to persons. To show them publicly, the American authorities cannot, because secret characteristics of the imaging equipment of reconnaissance satellites will be revealed.
      1. +20
        9 2021 June
        Quote: pytar
        Pictures of cosm. US intelligence was shown the otorizirovanny ships to persons. Show them publicly, the American authorities cannot, because secret characteristics will be revealed

        This is how much you need to drink to believe it))) More precisely, this is how you need to love an American master in order to say something like that ...

        And they also have satellite images of how all Russian athletes at 6:30 am, to the sounds of a pioneer dawn, took doping, and how Petrov and Boshirov, having looked at the spiers, smeared the Skripal door handle with three layers of Novichok, but this again mega-secret, as it can "light up the equipment of a geostationary satellite" ...
        1. -12
          9 2021 June
          More precisely, this is how it is necessary to love an American master in order to declare such a thing ...

          But this is always said when you hear different opinions from the official line of desks. laughing
          but this is again mega-secret, as it can "light up the equipment of a geostationary satellite" ...

          Not the apparatus, but its characteristics. And not geostationary, but with a low and medium-altitude orbit.
          1. +1
            10 2021 June
            the orbit does not matter - if there were pictures, then both the Russian Federation and the LDNR would have been drowned long ago.
            1. -1
              10 2021 June
              The publication of the pictures would not add anything or take away from the task of "drowning". Those who are now leaning towards the version of Russia's guilt would not have learned anything new. Those who lean towards the opposite version would deny that these pictures prove anything, just as well as they deny it now about the intercepted negotiations and the photo of the smoke trail.
              1. +1
                14 2021 June
                so everyone denies everything, this is politics ...
        2. +3
          9 2021 June
          Sorry, are you the author of this post?
          It is strange to see such a post from you, personally you are undoubtedly aware that the Americans presented the satellite photos to a specially authorized representative of the court with the appropriate clearance, and their secrecy is explained by the Americans by the fact that this is a photo from the satellites of the American early warning system, it would be strange if they were not secret.
          1. +4
            9 2021 June
            I am sure that Russia will disgrace the Americans and provide the court with its own satellite images, which clearly show the launch of an anti-aircraft missile system of the Ukrainian territory or the launch of an explosive missile from a Ukrainian attack aircraft, or ... what is the official version of the RF Ministry of Defense?
            1. +1
              9 2021 June
              There is a problem with this
              At the trial, it was established that Zaroshchenskoye was also under the control of the militia
              The abundance of ill-conceived and even deliberately ridiculous versions like a full plane of old corpses greatly damages the reputation.
              1. 0
                10 2021 June
                I do not think that all the corpses were returned to their "homeland", for certain they did not find a few. Even among the fools, the percentage of fools is small. Therefore, there is video, photos and other evidence of the shooting down of Meich17.
                1. -1
                  10 2021 June
                  in such cases, "thinking" is not enough, you need to know
                  already in 2014, almost all of the victims were identified, except for 4.
                  In the Netherlands, the bodies of 294 of the 298 victims of the crash of the Malaysian Boeing were identified

                  https://www.interfax.ru/world/412466
                  later, two more were identified.
                  so out of 298 victims
                  Of the 298 who died on Flight MH17, only two are unidentified: 15-year-old Gary Slock and 58-year-old Alex Plow.
                  1. 0
                    14 2021 June
                    you need to know in what form these corpses ended up on the ground, and to identify ... having a list of passengers, to identify one piece of cake. even if there is no trace left, any truth can be perverted beyond recognition and exactly the opposite (if desired). something like this...
              2. -1
                14 2021 June
                You can install a lot, the Buryat cavalry is out, it is still in the DPR, but there are no pictures ...
          2. +6
            10 2021 June
            Quote: Avior
            the Americans presented satellite photographs to a specially authorized representative of the court

            )))))))))))))) and the representative of the court is undoubtedly a specialist in space images, that is, from the evidence of the authenticity of these images, only "honest American word"
            1. -1
              10 2021 June
              for this, the defense side is present in the case.
              If he believes that the pictures are fake, there will be a statement about their exclusion from the evidence. The process is adversarial.
              Only they play a secondary role in the case, there is other evidence, as far as can be seen from the course of the process.
              1. +1
                10 2021 June
                Quote: Avior
                for this, the defense side is present in the case.

                I didn't understand something,)))))))))))))))))), and the defense side saw these pictures? and who is it ?
            2. +1
              14 2021 June
              he has a special education, most likely, he looked at the envelope with the bucks and saw everything as in reality ..
          3. +1
            10 2021 June
            and their secrecy is explained by the Americans by

            Tell me, does the Principle of the Presumption of Innocence, one of the cornerstones of "Western democracy" prevail over "secrecy" in such a case? That is why people like you do not ... love on VO. You accept arguments that fit your worldview. Which are not, you simply do not notice such. When they start kicking at the behavior of Israel, you shout: "What for us?" "What do you care what happens 2 thousand km from the borders of the Russian Federation." And what about the shooting down by Ukraine over the Black Sea of ​​a plane flying from Israel? After all, Ukraine has not frankly recognized? Although Russia provided ALL of the evidence?
            1. +1
              10 2021 June
              I accept facts, not fantasies
              If it turns out that this picture is the only or at least key evidence, then I will be the first to write that an examination is needed to make it the decisive material evidence.
              And if not the only thing, then it will be at the level of testimony, which we are now observing.
              1. +1
                10 2021 June
                Quote: Avior
                And if not the only thing, then it will be at the level of testimony, which we are now observing.

                we are now witnessing the Hague circus performance, where the arguments of the defense are not refuted but simply ignored, where completely left-wing material evidence is insolently slipped into the case by the party interested in the accusation
          4. +1
            10 2021 June
            I am not a military man or a lawyer.
            However, it seems to me that in such a biased case, these photographs, if they really exist, should be presented to the court, and not to any one authorized representative, because there is no faith in either this court or this authorized representative.
            And is it possible to believe that this commissioner actually saw these pictures, and are they real or not falsified?
            But Russia may well apply for the examination of these images.
            But with this kind of "secrecy" you have to take your word for it, that in this case there is an absolutely impossible thing.
            And not a single court, even the most ordinary one, will ever accept as fact or proof some document that only one of the members of the court saw.
            Usually, all the evidence from both sides of the process is presented in court.
            1. -1
              10 2021 June
              And not a single court, even the most ordinary one, will ever accept as fact or proof some document that only one of the members of the court saw.

              If a photo is presented, it will be material evidence.
              If not, it will be testimony.
              They have different evidentiary power.
              It is clear that the accusation cannot be built only on the testimony of one person.
              presented to the court, and not to any one authorized representative, because there is no faith either in this court or this authorized representative.

              participants in the process can protest
              1. 0
                10 2021 June
                The credibility of the testimony is also built on circumstantial evidence that corroborates the testimony.
                And yes, Russia can file a protest.
                Only this is not an ordinary court, and therefore the truth does not interest anyone here.
                Here, if it turns out that Russia is not guilty, then this can completely change the relations between Russia and the EU, Russia and the United States + payment of monetary compensation in favor of Russia.
                Well, the damage to the political reputation of the EU and the United States will also be done (however, in our time, who needs some kind of political reputation there?
                Therefore, neither the protest of Russia, nor the authenticity of some photograph, which is either there or not, will cause no doubts among the members of the "High Court".
                I'm not even talking about the fact that there is no logic at all in the accusations of Russia and its involvement in this tragedy.
                1. +1
                  10 2021 June
                  The credibility of the testimony is also built on circumstantial evidence that corroborates the testimony.

                  and also on the reputation of a witness
                  and changing his position multiple times - not in favor of the reputation
                  1. 0
                    10 2021 June
                    You're right. The only thing is that the culprit is appointed, and the rest ... but who needs it?
                    Although, no one can punish anyone (and the sanctions for Boeing were introduced almost on the day of the tragedy), even before the start of the investigation, not to mention the court's verdict.
                    1. 0
                      10 2021 June
                      In the court, specific people - 4 people - are accused of specific actions.
                      They directly say that other issues are not within the competence of the court.
                      1. -1
                        11 2021 June
                        Infa has just passed that the court did not find evidence of the delivery of the Buk from the Russian Federation and that the District Court in The Hague said that it had not received satellite images from the US from the crash site.
                        So was it a boy, ugh you, I mean the pictures?
                        1. 0
                          11 2021 June
                          Where did you go? Can you give a link?
                          It is here, minute by minute, how Buk's movement is studied in court.
                          https://graty.me/online/delo-ob-ubijstve-passazhirov-rejsa-mn17-malajzijskih-avialinij-na-donbasse-sud-prodolzhaet-izuchat-dokazatelstva-prichastnosti-obvinyaemyh/
                          And as for satellite images, it has long been known that they will not be presented as material evidence, only in the form of witness
                          There are enough witnesses without them
                        2. -1
                          11 2021 June
                          https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/4849936#id1762750
                        3. -1
                          11 2021 June
                          It means that they did not see how the Beech specifically crossed the border.
                          According to the link I gave, its movement on the territory of Russia and the republics is examined in detail, but the very moment of crossing the border and some of the movements before and after.
                        4. 0
                          11 2021 June
                          "The dossier contains information that the Buk was transported from the Russian Federation to Donetsk, but it is not supported by either images or testimony of witnesses. The Joint Investigation Team explains this by the fact that it was night and it was dark," Koster said at the hearing at the Schiphol Court
                          “Investigators rely on data obtained from mobile communication towers, with their help it is possible to track the position of the phones of the people who were allegedly escorting the Buk.
                          Those. although the investigation says that the Buk was brought from Russia, however, none of the witnesses confirms this.
                          This means that either the investigation wrote a gag, or the investigation simply did not want to find out everything to the end.
                          And again, the word "presumably".
                          This means that this is only an assumption, but not a proven fact.
                          And Buk could move anywhere in the territory of Russia, but, at the same time, they saw him there, but for some reason no one saw how he crossed the border.
                          Doesn't it seem strange to you that the most important thing was never seen, i.e. the moment he crossed the border?
                        5. -2
                          11 2021 June
                          It is not surprising if he crossed the border at night, and everywhere there is a curfew, at this time who could see him?
                          Not to mention the fact that in the border area, no one just roams around, especially at night.
                        6. +1
                          12 2021 June
                          In this case, the border was simply not guarded.
                          There were no border guards, and the States never presented the pictures, even, as some say here, to some specialist from this court / investigation.
                          It turns out that someone, to put it mildly, is disingenuous: some say that the States provided the images, even to one person, but the district court declares that the images were never provided.
                          And who is lying?
                          Well, I repeat again: Buk was seen on the territory of Russia, but for some reason no one saw him crossing the border.
                          I repeat: I am not a lawyer or a military man, but there is an elementary logic.
                        7. -1
                          12 2021 June
                          In this case, the border was simply not guarded.
                          There were no border guards

                          Do you think that Russian border guards should have posted a photo with Buk on a social network?
                          the district court says the images were never released

                          were not presented to the court, it was said from the very beginning, no sensation.
                          presented to the court - it was presented at the hearing and filed in the case.
                          Well, I repeat again: Buk was seen on the territory of Russia, but for some reason no one saw him crossing the border.

                          there is, after all, elementary logic.

                          which says that the likelihood of getting a picture is much higher when driving during the day on public roads than at night in a closed border zone where outsiders are not allowed
                        8. 0
                          12 2021 June
                          As far as I know, now the technique is such that satellites take pictures even at night.
                          In this regard, American satellites are especially praised.
                          However, there are no such pictures.
                          And the fact that these pictures allegedly showed someone ... so they showed it or not is a big question.
                          Why in such a serious matter it is necessary to take someone's word for it?
                          Imagine: you are being tried for murder (God forbid, of course) and the judge says: here they showed me a picture, which shows that you killed this person. Only I won't show it to you, because it is secret, and I cannot file it into the case. , and just in general, they did not give it to me, but just showed it .. And I will not show it to your lawyer for the same reason of its secrecy.
                          But based on this snapshot, I am making a verdict that you are guilty and, if you please, go to jail for murder.
                          What will be your reaction to this?
                        9. -1
                          12 2021 June
                          As I know

                          if you think that there all the time an ultra-high resolution satellite hangs over one point, strictly in the place where the Beech crossed the border, then you are mistaken.
                        10. 0
                          12 2021 June
                          At the time of the hostilities that were already going on there, for the sake of a desire to accuse Russia of anything, the States would have done so that these travelers there at least alternate in order to constantly see that this is happening (how they fly there, whether they stick out in one place or replace each other not in the know, but to look in the internet in order to understand all this is now reluctant, but I will definitely take an interest in this).
                          They allegedly showed the pictures to someone, which means, according to the States, they have evidence.
                          I supplemented the previous comment there, if it's not difficult - read it.
                        11. -1
                          12 2021 June
                          The states would make it so that these travelers there at least alternate, so that they constantly see that this is happening (how they fly there, whether they stick out in one place or replace each other without being aware

                          it is obvious that you are completely unaware and your ideas about this are very far from how it really is.
                          hi
                        12. -1
                          14 2021 June
                          the probability of getting a snapshot moves to 0 in bad weather. so no need to pretend to be smart, but from the rest of the idiots. In a thunderstorm, so generally the picture will not work, although you can concoct ripples, a la the horizon (I repeat). I do not understand at all (although it is clear) whose point of view do you defend?
                        13. -1
                          11 2021 June
                          ... The investigation has testimony of witnesses who saw the BUK already on the last legs of the journey early in the morning. There were no witnesses for the night transportation.

                          The first witness along the way is S16. He saw the convoy at about 8: 15-8: 30 in Yenakievo. Among the vehicles was a track launcher on a Volvo trailer. The installation was covered, but the missiles were still visible.
              2. 0
                14 2021 June
                that is, the evidence was shown to some representative of the court - he looked and EVERYTHING was accepted for VERA? read your last phrase - the participants in the process can protest.
        3. +2
          12 2021 June
          Quote: Volodin
          And they also have satellite images of how all Russian athletes took doping at 6:30 in the morning to the sounds of a pioneer dawn,

          At 7-40, the Pioneer dawn began to wail foolish, however ... Or at 7-30, I forgot, really ...
          1. -2
            12 2021 June
            I also think that at 7-30.
            1. +1
              12 2021 June
              Quote: Avior
              in 7-30.

              And in my opinion, at 7-40 all the same. I have a feeling that closer to eight, this activist began to wail. And the radio was exactly the same, only the sides were blue. winked
          2. 0
            22 2021 June
            but we do not have pictures of how their athletes eat the same pills with spoons
      2. +9
        9 2021 June
        pytar (Boyan Ivanov)
        What the hell are you talking about here? 7 years have passed! What secrecy can there be for these pictures? Maybe you should be reminded of the test tube that was shaken at the UN meeting? Like here's proof.
        1. -11
          9 2021 June
          What kind of secrecy can these pictures be?

          Not images, but technical equipment for reconnaissance satellites.
          1. +3
            10 2021 June
            Quote: pytar
            Not images, but technical equipment for reconnaissance satellites.

            what exactly are the performance characteristics? !!!
            1. -1
              10 2021 June
              what exactly are the performance characteristics? !!!

              Have you ever taken a photo? laughing
              1. +1
                10 2021 June
                stupid question, but I will answer
                not only photographed, but also developed and printed
                1. +3
                  10 2021 June
                  not only photographed, but also developed and printed

                  Then you must know that even from an ordinary digital photo you can determine a lot of things about the photographer and his camera down. Have you ever photographed with a reconnaissance satellite? Nope ... You know, the difference is huge! This is not just a photo, there is a multispectral image, whose algorithm is also classified, and a huge amount of accompanying information. No one publicly shows the originals, the Russian Federation, too, because through reverse analysis, the enemy can learn from them a lot of your capabilities, which you definitely would not want.
                  1. -1
                    10 2021 June
                    Quote: pytar
                    Have you ever photographed with a reconnaissance satellite? Nope ... You know, the difference is huge!

                    Well, according to your speech, I already understood that you, like the same Munchausen, are sitting on the satellite and "taking pictures"
                    Quote: pytar
                    This is not just a photo, there is a multispectral image, whose algorithm is also classified, and a huge amount of accompanying information. Nobody shows the originals publicly,

                    PHOTO IN VISIBLE LIGHT SPECTRUM IS THERE? !!!!
                    1. +2
                      10 2021 June
                      I didn't take pictures on satellites, but I have been professionally engaged in aerial photogrammetry for more than 10 years. Therefore, reduce the dust, but rather look at the links with a colleague Avior (Sergey). There are answers to all your questions. Yes
                      https://graty.me/online/delo-ob-ubijstve-passazhirov-rejsa-mn17-malajzijskih-avialinij-na-donbasse-den-pyatyj/
                      1. -1
                        10 2021 June
                        Quote: pytar
                        Therefore, reduce the dust

                        now I'll take a broom and go to subtract
                        ah, you go for photographic evidence
                        all the best, I think that I will do my part of the work faster laughing
                        1. +3
                          10 2021 June
                          now I'll take a broom and go to subtract

                          The most correct decision in a situation like yours! good
                          ah, you go for photographic evidence

                          Not why, they have been in court for a long time, where they should be. Yes
                          all the best, I think that I will do my part of the work faster

                          And all the best to you, it turns out I got ahead of you. bully
                        2. -4
                          10 2021 June
                          Quote: pytar
                          Not why, they have been in court for a long time, where they should be.

                          What do you mean and why will they not be presented to the people?
                          Quote: pytar
                          And all the best to you, it turns out I got ahead of you.

                          well, I know whom you "resisted", but tired for sure
                        3. 0
                          10 2021 June
                          What do you mean and why will they not be presented to the people?

                          And the people here to see prices? request
                          Well, I know who you resisted, but definitely tired

                          The tactic works! Yes
                        4. 0
                          22 2021 June
                          Boyan thinks Russians are idiots, it seems ... that's his right, I'll just ignore him now.
                        5. 0
                          22 2021 June
                          Boyan thinks Russians are idiots, it seems ... that's his right, I'll just ignore him now.

                          What are you talking about ?? belay Half of my relatives are Russians! Ignore, as you ignore the facts, since you are not satisfied!
          2. +5
            10 2021 June
            Quote: pytar
            What kind of secrecy can these pictures be?

            Not images, but technical equipment for reconnaissance satellites.

            if ours tell the Americans the technical specifications of the equipment of their satellites, will the Americans show the pictures to the public?
            1. +2
              10 2021 June
              if ours tell the Americans the technical specifications of the equipment of their satellites, will the Americans show the pictures to the public?

              What are they waiting for? Let them say! Neither yours will say, nor they will show! Because, and this and that is secret! bully
            2. 0
              10 2021 June
              Clearly ;-) It would be funny to know the answer of the milicans
          3. 0
            14 2021 June
            here or truth and secrecy (lies, lies). so that the performance characteristics can be shoved in the ass, or presented to the whole world. and not otherwise.
        2. 0
          10 2021 June
          What was wrong with the test tube?
      3. +3
        9 2021 June
        Quote: pytar
        Pictures of cosm. US intelligence was shown the otorizirovanny ships to persons. To show them publicly, the American authorities cannot, because secret characteristics of the imaging equipment of reconnaissance satellites will be revealed.

        The characteristics of those who need it are most likely known for a long time.
        And then two options:
        1. Their publication will raise the question: how and why the satellite
        was in the right place at the right time.
        2. Not publishing allows you to keep ukrov for causal places.
        1. -7
          9 2021 June
          The characteristics of those who need it are most likely known for a long time.

          Are you confident? Petrov and Bashirov poked with a screwdriver? laughing
          By the way, even if you're right, the US law restricts displays.
          Their publication will raise the question: how and why the satellite was in the right place at the right time.

          The United States has more than 190 of them. They are spinning covering certain areas of interest to them in a constant mode.
          1. +4
            10 2021 June
            they are not limited by anything to show Russian equipment in Syria, and mulberry law, sir ...
            1. +2
              10 2021 June
              they are not limited by anything to show Russian equipment in Syria, and mulberry law, sir ...

              You are confusing things! Publications for media, processed photos with secret data removed from them by the equipment filming, is one thing. But in the courts such are not accepted as evidence! Only the original, according to a certain procedure, excluding leaks of classified information.
              By the way, such a procedure could be used by Ross. authorities, if they had satellite evidence of Ukraine's involvement in the downing of Boeing. Where are they, if any ???
              1. +1
                10 2021 June
                So no one talked about the courts, let them show it on the Internet!
                1. 0
                  10 2021 June
                  So no one talked about the courts, let them show it on the Internet!

                  What for? So that you then began to find fault with the type - "photoshopped pictures, fake" ?!
      4. +3
        10 2021 June
        Quote: pytar
        because the secret characteristics of the imaging equipment of reconnaissance satellites will be revealed.

        what kind?!!!!
        resolution?!
        it could be artificially underestimated
        what specific characteristics will be revealed?
        1. +1
          10 2021 June
          resolution?! it could be artificially underestimated. what specific characteristics will be revealed?

          The fact is that the United States has about 1300 satellites in orbit. Officially 192 of them belong to the military departments. Probably still a significant part of the military is declared to be "civil". If intelligence is obtained from such, of course no "photo" will be shown. Yes, and the photos themselves, not just from an optical camera sfotkanno, where, as you smear the pixels and ready, "hid". laughing And why are the United States, Russia, China and others using undeclared satellites for reconnaissance? To hide the fact that at this time they are watching you! If you know that a reconnaissance satellite is flying over you at certain intervals, you will undertake the mayors of the make-up or limit your actions for this time.
          1. +2
            10 2021 June
            that is, there is no answer, however, as well as evidence
            what you wrote is smearing snot on a plate
            1. +1
              10 2021 June
              resolution?!
              it could be artificially underestimated
              what specific characteristics will be revealed?

              lens aperture, for example. only there is no point in presenting this edited photo, it will not prove anything
              1. -2
                10 2021 June
                and what will it give to whom? !!!
            2. 0
              10 2021 June
              that is, there is no answer, however, as well as evidence. what you wrote is smearing snot on a plate

              Evidence to court. Who should already be familiar with them. All other lyrics ...
              1. -1
                10 2021 June
                Quote: pytar
                Evidence to court. Who should already be familiar with them. All other lyrics ...

                open court ?!
                where is the proof?!!!!
                there is none of them!!
                everything else is lyrics ...
        2. 0
          10 2021 June
          By the way, during socialism, one of the geodetic methods was photogrammetry / stereo-aerial photography /. The An-2 plane flew on overlapping stripes over the terrain and photographed on large format film. Then all this was collected on a stereoplanigraph and a stereoscopic image of the area was obtained, from the relief, etc. for the production of inventories and topographic maps. So, all these materials, meanwhile, were classified as classified. Shas this medot is widely used for civilian purposes, taking digital photos from quadcopters and drones. It has long been not secret outside the state security zones. But in all countries, the data available from intelligence satellites from them is, of course, secret.
      5. +1
        10 2021 June
        if they are, retouch them, no problem. and there is no sense in this, if there is a groundwork for the equipment (although it is unlikely), in any case, they would have published the pictures, and the clearer, the more believable. Until then, there are only ripples from the United States, as in the dark black-and-white "Horizon" and nothing more.
        1. -1
          10 2021 June
          and what will the retouched photo prove?
          what is the point in it?
          1. -1
            14 2021 June
            there is meaning in everything. there would be money, to throw pictures or videos in the media. and the desire to do it. many countries have such opportunities and desires. the main thing is not the truth, but the ringing. You may believe the Solovyovs and their counterparts in Europe and the United States, but I don't.
            1. -2
              14 2021 June
              I don’t understand you
              a retouched photograph cannot be evidence in court.
        2. 0
          10 2021 June
          if they are, retouch them - no problem

          If they retouch, there is a problem. Photos that have gone through processing, that is, they are NOT original, are NOT accepted in the courts as evidence. After all, the accused will then begin to sing "retouched photos"! Therefore, an indirect identification method is used, through the filing of the US official document / memorandum-detailed description of all data /. The specially authorized person appointed by the court, like the prosecutor, has access to the originals. Their task is to authorize compliance with the data of the memorandum.
          1. -1
            10 2021 June
            Quote: pytar
            Photos that went through processing

            that is, there is no evidence?
            1. +2
              10 2021 June
              that is, there is no evidence?

              We have it in bulk! Yes The court accepts exactly evidence, not photoshop. Again, I am quoting my colleague's links. Avior (Sergey), respect him! hi There, from 15:30 to 16:27, all the actions of the court in connection with the receipt of reliable satellite information are described.
              https://graty.me/online/delo-ob-ubijstve-passazhirov-rejsa-mn17-malajzijskih-avialinij-na-donbasse-den-pyatyj/
              1. +1
                10 2021 June
                Quote: pytar
                We have it in bulk!

                I swear by my mom, YES !!!
                1. +1
                  10 2021 June
                  Vladimir, I'm afraid to ask, who are you in this photo? lol
                  1. -1
                    11 2021 June
                    In this photo, he photographed you and your support group.
                    1. +1
                      11 2021 June
                      I'm definitely not there. No. I'm blue-eyed blonde. laughing
                  2. +1
                    12 2021 June
                    Quote: pytar
                    Vladimir, I'm afraid to ask, who are you in this photo?

                    Pinocchio he. Only there he is not visible, an aspen blockhead.
              2. +1
                10 2021 June
                Quote: pytar
                written all the actions of the court in connection with the receipt of reliable satellite information.
                https://graty.me/online/delo-ob-ubijstve-passazhirov-rejsa-mn17-malajzijskih-avialinij-na-donbasse-den-pyatyj/

                well, don't burn like that
                Images for July 17, 2014 from Geoserve did not have... From July 18 to July 19, 2014, we managed to find pictures of the launch site near Pervomaisky, but the area was covered by clouds.

                The agency was asked to investigate possible missile launch sites and the BUK SAM route. The prosecutor's office will present the results of this study later..

                Joint investigation team tried to get satellite data and from other countries such as the United States, the Russian Federation and China.

                Failed to receive satellite images from the United Statesbut they provided other information. It turns out that there are special military tools for detecting missile launches. The operating principles of these systems are a state secret, but the United States certainly has them.(I swear by my mom laughing )


                Data from American satellites
                The Joint Investigation Team attempted to obtain satellite data from other countries such as the United States, the Russian Federation and China.

                The United States was unable to obtain satellite imagery, but provided other information. It turns out that there are special military tools for detecting missile launches. The operating principles of these systems are a state secret, but the United States certainly has them.

                "Evidence indicates that the plane was shot down by a surface-to-air missile fired from an area controlled by Russian-backed separatists inside Ukraine," US President Barack Obama said the day after the crash.

                US Secretary of State John Kerry confirmed this on July 20, 2014: "(...) we detected a launch from this area, and our trajectory shows that it went to the plane."

                On July 22, a satellite image was published on the Facebook page of the American Embassy in Kiev: the flight path of the MH17, the flight path of the rocket and the point of explosion. After this information, the prosecutor's office contacted the American authorities with a request for legal assistance.

                In response to a request, a spokesman for the Office of the Director of National Intelligence of the United States made a written statement:

                "At the time that communication with MH17 was lost, US intelligence discovered the launch of an SA-11 (SA-11 Gadfly - the name of the BUK-M1 system in NATO classification) air defense missile about six kilometers south of the town of Snezhnoe in eastern Ukraine."

                Attached to the statement was the same image previously published by the US Embassy in Kiev.


                The US authorities have given the opportunity to verify this information, based on classified information, the Dutch attorney for counterterrorism. The prosecutor received intelligence from a number of US officials, as well as access to several classified and unclassified documents. And these data confirmed the information provided earlier, but they will not be disclosed in court.

                excuse me, but this is funny
                1. +2
                  10 2021 June
                  excuse me, but this is funny

                  You will excuse me, but you chose some of the content! And this is truly funny! lol
                  Let me and I will give you a selection of the creature, so that "laugh" more! bully

                  1. On June 22, 2016, Google Earth published a photo of Makeevka taken on July 17, 2014 from a satellite. Various sources point out that this satellite image recorded a BUK moving on its way to the launch site in Pervomayskoye. The investigation acquired the photo through Geoserve.

                  2.While communications with MH17 were lost, US intelligence discovered the launch of an SA-11 air defense missile about six kilometers south of the town of Snezhnoe in eastern Ukraine. The US authorities have given the opportunity to verify this information, based on classified information, the Dutch attorney for counterterrorism. The prosecutor received intelligence from a number of US officials, as well as access to several classified and unclassified documents. And these data confirmed the information provided earlier, but they will not be disclosed in court.

                  3. The investigation also requested satellite data from the Russian Federation, for the first time on October 15, 2014. In addition to this broader request for satellite data, the investigation separately requested the originals of the satellite imagery that the Russian Defense Ministry showed during a press conference on July 21, 2014. The Russian authorities have provided low-resolution digital copies of the images. Despite repeated inquiries, the investigation never received the image files from these satellite photographs. Only in March 2020, the Russian authorities replied that they had not saved satellite images of the area around Zaroshchenskoye.

                  And what do we have as a result? 3 different sources! 2 confirm the theses of the accusation, 1 / Russian / rejects them! Let's leave the side of commercial Google Earth and compare the American with the Russian!

                  1.Published processed copies of originals?
                  USA - YES, Russia - YES!
                  2.Consequence given access to originals?
                  USA YES, Russia NO!
                  3.Is the copy from the original confirmed?
                  USA YES, Russia NO!

                  Explain to me how so, the Russian authorities "did not save" such important photos that could decide the case in their favor by publishing allegedly "their copy" before, for the same purpose?!?
                  Who, in a healthy mind, will take and destroy the evidence that numb him? This is only possible when it comes to evidence proving the guilt of Ross. side! And I can do digital "copy" even without being particularly advanced in Photoshop! lol
                  1. 0
                    10 2021 June
                    Quote: pytar
                    On June 22, 2016 Google Earth published a photo of Makeevka

                    let's laugh together

                    guess yourself WHAT TO DO with such "evidence"
                2. +1
                  12 2021 June
                  Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                  excuse me, but this is funny

                  And it was even more funny to me when the next day after the plane was shot down, Channel One shouted with might and main that Putin was flying this route, but was several minutes late. This news was chatted for half a day, and then - in silence. The secret of the investigation, I guess.
                  1. 0
                    12 2021 June
                    And it was even more funny to me when the next day after the plane was shot down, Channel One shouted with might and main that Putin was flying this route, but was several minutes late. This news was chatted for half a day, and then - in silence. The secret of the investigation, I guess.

                    Hi Vladimir! hi If we look at the entire recount of the insane versions that were replicated in the Russian Federation, we'll go crazy! Panopticon of inadequacy! It looks like the behavior of a criminal who was caught at the scene of a crime, and he panickedly comes up with excuses one after another, more and more contradictory and less convincing!
                    I can't understand one thing! Why was it necessary to deny the obvious? Couldn't they honestly admit the mistake, apologize and pay the depopulation? Could at least come up with a more reliable version, for example, that the Buk was delivered in Donbass without the control of Ross. authorities, for example, smuggled from a non-friendly friendly "unrecognized" republic. Otmazatsya and get out, keep at least the remnants of honor! Example Iran, a country that is in a rather complicated relationship with the West!
          2. 0
            14 2021 June
            depending on which courts and whose pictures ... here you are wrong. and the methods can be finished, if you need to micron to any business, again you need desire and finances. and an owl on a globe can be pulled, as an example. and everyone will believe. At first, everyone believed in the nightingale, now only a few.
            1. -2
              18 2021 June
              The court is the one that Russia wanted. She alone vetoed proposals to hold the case before the International Court of Justice, where she has a judge. If Russia was confident in its innocence, it would have accepted the UN ICS, but no ...! Such a strange, not at first glance, the behavior of the Russian Federation aimed to give her "grounds" to find fault with that "the fate is not the same, the court is wrong, unrepresentative", etc.
              As for the pictures, you are greatly mistaken. "Finishing" as it was not jewelry, there are always traces left. It is indicative that her photos, which allegedly proved the involvement of Ukraine and which the Russian Federation was waving, she suddenly ... "lost" ... Who in a normal mind "loses" the most important evidence that mute him? Here is an interesting video demonstrating the rus-media approach. Needs no comment ...
              1. 0
                22 2021 June
                ripple videos and chalk tubes are taken on faith. so you have your own position, and I have my own.
                1. 0
                  22 2021 June
                  ripple videos and chalk tubes are taken on faith. so you have your own position, and I have my own.

                  As far as positions and opinions may be different, only one is old-fashioned - the Suda !!!
          3. 0
            18 2021 June
            pictures are accepted at VERA, as well as test tubes at the UN.
            1. 0
              22 2021 June
              pictures are accepted at VERA, as well as test tubes at the UN.

              There is no such thing. The test tube room was an elementary political provocation. And here the court looks specifically at the evidence, according to the standards of justice. No "faith" to anyone.
      6. 0
        11 2021 June
        For the presentation of pictures, the quality could be underestimated.
    11. +12
      9 2021 June
      I saw the Buk launches. There is such a column of smoke, it is impossible not to notice ... Well, the sound ... is very loud. It's hard to miss. And not to hear ... And what, only 20 people on a huge territory have seen or heard something?
      1. -9
        9 2021 June
        Only 20 were not afraid to testify.
        1. -3
          9 2021 June
          Why should they be afraid? The funnel will not come - the maximum public censure, and some will also support.
          1. +12
            9 2021 June
            Quote: Blackgrifon
            Why should they be afraid? The funnel will not come - the maximum public censure, and some will also support.

            What is the censure? What are you talking about? They are anonymous, no one will recognize them! Or those that are already in the West.

            Give me some money, I'll find you two dozen witnesses for anything in half a day! And if there are many anonymous ones!

            This "trial" is simply ridiculous! He is authoritative only for Western Russophobic politicians, corrupt Western media, Michael Bohm and the same Boen Ivanov from VO. For all normal of people, this "court" is a shameful courtroom for sale to the State Department with a bad reputation!
            1. +2
              9 2021 June
              Quote: Vladimir Mashkov
              What is the censure? What are you talking about? They are anonymous, no one will recognize them! Or those that are already in the West.

              Moreover, they are afraid of them? Most likely either leftists or defectors.
            2. -5
              10 2021 June
              Give me some money, I'll find you two dozen witnesses for anything in half a day! And if there are many anonymous ones!

              contact defense lawyers
        2. -5
          9 2021 June
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Only 20 were not afraid to testify.

          I wonder how many thousands of euro bucks the judges paid to dull fear
        3. 0
          10 2021 June
          if an airplane flies over a city with a population of half a million, then it is seen by a maximum of 10 to 50 people, the rest do not care. but if you are hammered by mortars, artillery, ags and snipers. then there is no way to look into the sky.
      2. +3
        9 2021 June
        I said from the very beginning: watch the launch of "Buk" on video and draw conclusions. The impression is that the population does not have and did not have photo and video equipment - there will always be a thousand witnesses how to shoot and post a video clip on the Internet ... but here they barely found as many as 20 clients who give the "necessary" testimonies. If I'm not mistaken, then the smoke trail from the rocket is visible up to 15-20 minutes and only the lazy could not photograph it ...
        1. -8
          9 2021 June
          There is a photo of the smoky trail in the case.
          1. +6
            9 2021 June
            One? And there should be a lot of them and from different angles.
            1. -7
              9 2021 June
              There is not a single photo of the launch from Zaroshchenskoye (about which the Russian Ministry of Defense and Almaz-Antey are talking).
      3. +7
        9 2021 June
        There is such a column of smoke, it is impossible not to notice
        ...... from the Grad too ..... the only thing that is interesting ... the number of the badge from the missile defense system The Beech belonged to the air defense unit from near Khmelnitsk ...
        1. -4
          9 2021 June
          ... the number of the badge from the Buk missile defense unit belonged to the air defense unit from near Khmelnitsk

          In the ledger of this unit, transferred to the investigation, there was no zur with such a number.
          1. +4
            10 2021 June
            In the ledger of this unit

            In Ukraine? And there was no whole UNIT in the Accounting Book? Yah?
            I have been working with a secret for many years. And I’ll tell you a secret - before the comprehensive check, we reworked VOLUMES of cases, Books (KUSPs), Magazines (JUI) ... cheated. And you give the argument of the Book ... Unit of Bandera Ukraine, which is struggling .... big "bump". This is not an Argument. Look for others. The manufacturer's Form has been posted to you. You do not believe him, but you believe in the book of UNITS of the Banderostan army.
            1. -1
              10 2021 June
              the form was laid out - a copy! - but the act of acceptance and transfer was never shown.
              If you worked with documents, then you know that without this document you cannot say that the property was actually transferred.
              And about the unit, I answered the person in his terms.
              And I’ll tell you a secret - before the comprehensive check, we reworked VOLUMES of cases, Books (KUSPs), Magazines (JUI) ... cheated.

              funny. And after that you think it's a photocopy! from a copy! does the form prove something?
              1. +2
                10 2021 June
                You're right, funny. But you referred to the Ukrainian unit's accounting book as an axiom? I have refuted your argument. Well, come on, think of something else.
                1. -1
                  10 2021 June
                  And you are referring to photocopies of copies of documents from the factory.
                  There they will draw such a bag
          2. +2
            10 2021 June
            there was no zur with this number
            ...... yes, exactly like the dispatcher who escorted the board to the scene of the tragedy ... so femita la tragedy
            1. -1
              10 2021 June
              there were six dispatchers, not one
              several Ukrainian dispatchers were interrogated - Alshin, Babich, Kalinichenko, Kaplynov, Klets, Kuznetsov, Lazareva, Maksimenko, Petrenko, Polyak, Sokolenko, Yevtushenko.

              which one have you got lost?
              1. +1
                10 2021 June
                which one have you got lost?
                ..... we have no one ... and you ... who bore responsibility from the listed ones !!!! ... no one ... then everyone is lost ....... just like the elderberry killers were lost , Sheremeta, how the participants in the explosion of power lines got lost, as well as those who got lost with impunity in the residential areas of Donbass ... I don’t understand your line of reasoning, where everything is clear and understandable for a long time ...
                1. 0
                  10 2021 June
                  And what is there to understand?
                  You didn't have a dispatcher, I found a bunch for you.
                  All were interrogated.
                2. +2
                  12 2021 June
                  Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
                  as the murderers of the elder, Sheremet, were lost,

                  Is it hard to remember Colonel Budanov, whose mokrushniki got lost?
                  1. -1
                    12 2021 June
                    Is it hard to remember Colonel Budanov, whose mokrushniki got lost?
                    ... you even confused ... Budanov's killer was captured and convicted ... separately I bow my knee to Colonel Budanov, blessed memory of him ... but we have a speech for the premeditated murder of more than 200 civilians ... explain your thoughts more specifically .. . along the way you have a porridge in the brain of the mind
    12. +4
      9 2021 June
      At the trial in the Dutch city of The Hague

      doing everything to become a Poseidon testing ground laughing
    13. +3
      9 2021 June
      listen to the echo of moscow..there is such a thing.the ears fade
    14. -5
      9 2021 June
      But the most important thing is that the court is studying the only version according to which the Boeing was shot down by the Russian Buk complex from the territory controlled by the DPR. The options for attacking the Ukrainian Air Force aircraft and the strike of the air defense complex belonging to the Ukrainian Armed Forces are not even considered.

      This statement is wrong. All versions were considered in fact

      https://graty.me/online/delo-ob-ubijstve-passazhirov-rejsa-mn17-malajzijskih-avialinij-na-donbasse-den-pyatyj/[quote][/quote]
    15. +4
      9 2021 June
      But the most important thing is that the court is studying the only version according to which the Boeing was shot down by the Russian Buk complex from the territory controlled by the DPR. The options for attacking the Ukrainian Air Force aircraft and the strike of the air defense complex belonging to the Ukrainian Armed Forces are not even considered.
      So this trial has an almost biblical plot: - "First there was a word, an accusation, and then there was a trial!"
    16. -10
      9 2021 June
      Submariners do not know how submarines are arranged and why submarines float, pilots do not know how planes are arranged and why airplanes fly, missilemen - rockets. "Unwinding" the MH17 theme is a piece of cake, though, apparently, not by our capabilities. We'll have to wait for some next “Catherine II” or some next “Peter I” to bring German or Dutch specialists to Russia, so that they teach us different unreasonable wisdom.
    17. +2
      9 2021 June
      Did these two fire a rocket? So they have been operating since 1941 and thank God they have not grown old. Only it is not clear how you can shoot down a Boeing with an illumination rocket? Or, in addition to the rocket launcher, they also had a rocket in their pocket and they launched it with an arrow from a bow? Then it's a completely different matter, the Americans also have such missiles. They have a basement full of such missiles in Gollywood, which means that one of those actors who constantly save the world accidentally shot down a Boeing.
    18. The comment was deleted.
      1. +1
        10 2021 June
        Quote: Artemiev
        You need to understand that the court in The Hague is not the Basmanny court

        the Hague is not a court at all - this is a big top, where to such forgeries
    19. +6
      9 2021 June
      The technology of bending over the whole country was applied already 30 years ago. If anyone has forgotten, there was an explosion of the liner over Lockbury. Colonel Gaddafi was appointed to blame. Investigators found in the wreckage of the plane a piece of plastic the size of a postage stamp. Allegedly, this plastic was a part of a mine detonator sold by a Swiss company to the Libyan special services. Many have served in the army and are aware of the temperatures at the epicenter of the explosion. And then a piece of plastic was preserved and allowed to bend Libya and the leader of Libya. So it is not surprising that Dutch investigators find fragments of different configurations and in different quantities in the bodies of the pilots. And about the number of the rocket shown by the Dutch investigators to all the news channels are not mentioned at all. And no one calls the Ukrainian lispatcher of that very flight to the court as a witness. And about the pilot Voloshin, who planted five bullets from a PM pistol in his skull, no one at all mentions.
      1. -4
        10 2021 June
        All these versions were considered, and the dispatcher was interrogated, both Voloshin and his boss.
        But in general, the investigation is not a matter of the court.
        The court examines evidence on a specific charge, rather than looking for the perpetrators in general.
        1. +2
          10 2021 June
          In the case of the crash of this liner, the perpetrators were appointed even when the wreckage of the plane was smoking on the ground and the investigators had not yet reached the crash site. And there was only one version. And now the court is not even considering any other versions. Then if the court serves one single version, then it looks like a trial.
          1. +1
            10 2021 June
            In the case of the crash of this liner, the perpetrators were appointed even when the wreckage of the plane was smoking on the ground.

            even earlier. He hadn't really had time to fall, and the Russian media already reported that a Ukrainian plane had been shot down.
            it was later realized that the error came out
            And now the court is not even considering any other versions.

            somewhere here I gave a link to the chronicle of the court hearings. All other versions were also considered
        2. 0
          11 2021 June
          So, wait a minute, and the pictures were not shown to the court, but did he accept the evidence from the words of the authorized prosecutor? Double standarts? Or is it different?
    20. ***
      - And who are the judges? - For antiquity
      In everything, their enmity towards Russia is irreconcilable,
      Judgments are drawn from Western newspapers
      Obama's times before the return of Crimea ...
      ***
    21. +1
      10 2021 June
      In the area of ​​Pervomayskoye there was an installation of Tolya "arrow" or similar. Paired, apparently of short range. In the most prominent place on the mountain. Visible from any side. If only she shot there would be hundreds of witnesses.
    22. +1
      10 2021 June
      There are two versions - "one is correct" gay-European, the other is incorrect - of normal people !!! But the order was accepted and it must be fulfilled even if you shoot yourself in the head.
    23. +1
      10 2021 June
      "They think that this is too far for the complex." designers underestimate the characteristics of their products; for BUKA they are underestimated by at least 10%.
      1. -3
        10 2021 June
        For BUKA, they are underestimated by at least 10%.

        the distance was much greater
    24. +1
      10 2021 June
      It is because of such a situation that our Constitution was finally amended, according to which international law ceased to be binding on Russia if they contradict the interests of Russia. This is called "out of control". So whatever decision this pocket court of the Anglo-Saxons makes - let them be a banana. It's also time to abolish the UN or withdraw from it, because this shobla, too, already dances to the tune of the Pentagrammogon
    25. +1
      10 2021 June
      This is a mockery of facts and common sense. Russia, confident that Ukraine was involved in the terrorist act with the destruction of a civilian aircraft in vain, supported an international investigation at the UN Security Council. Now, even after the publication of facts completely refuting the conclusions of the Hague court, the pressure on public opinion will be a fait accompli, and no one will be interested in what will be printed in small print. Thanks to a million publications and absurd accusations over the course of many years, everything that the United States needs in the fragile minds of the majority has already been postponed.
      This is how information wars are played.
      1. 0
        10 2021 June
        Russia, confident that Ukraine was wrongly involved in the terrorist act with the destruction of a civilian plane, supported an international investigation at the UN Security Council

        Russia did not support the international trial of the guilty at the UN Security Council
        The investigation was carried out according to ICAO rules, for this approval from Russia is not required
        1. +3
          10 2021 June
          Quote: Avior
          Russia did not support at the UN Security Council

          UN, 21 July 2014 / Corr. ITAR-TASS Oleg Zelenin /. The UN Security Council on Monday adopted a resolution on the crash of the Boeing Malaysian Airlines in eastern Ukraine. All 15 member states of the Security Council, including Russia, voted for the document.
          The resolution, numbered 2166, "in the strongest possible terms" condemns the actions that led to the downing of the plane and requires a comprehensive and independent investigation into the tragedy "in accordance with international civil aviation guidelines."
          Even before the start of the vote, Vitaly Churkin, Russia's Permanent Representative to the UN, said that Russia would support the draft resolution.

          Do not lump everything together, the investigation is one thing, and the international court is generally from a different opera.
          1. 0
            10 2021 June
            UN Security Council Resolution 2166 was supported by 15 states, Russia is one of them
            Well, she would not, and so what? All the same, it would have been conducted according to ICAO rules. This does not require a UN Security Council decision.
            Argentina, Australia, Chad, Chile, China, France, Jordan, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Nigeria, Republic of Korea, Russian Federation, Rwanda, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and United States of America
            https://ru.wikisource.org/wiki/Резолюция_Совета_Безопасности_ООН_№_S/RES/2166_(2014)
            but for an international court, yes, it was required. Russia blocked it
    26. -2
      10 2021 June
      A purely political event. For many years I have been dragging out the process in order to give the result the West needs at the right time. A kind of trump card. The effect itself, and the actions around it, besides a smile, cause nothing more. If only people hadn't died.
      1. AML
        +1
        11 2021 June
        Quote: Peter Tsar
        A purely political event.


        Political, of course. Many people here write that Russia should present something to this court? Seriously? Some civil court, from the village of Nyuvasyuki, is trying to conduct a local case, not even at the state level of the Netherlands. But how everyone breathes.
    27. +3
      10 2021 June
      Ha ha ha
      The court will choose from three testimonies of the launch site, those that it needs. Justice has triumphed!
      1. 0
        10 2021 June
        Quote: APASUS
        The court will choose from the three testimonies of the launch site, those that it needs.

        Now the anecdote about the Chukchi, which is asked by our submariners, are asked not to be clever, and it does not seem ridiculous to show where the American underwater went with a finger. soldier
    28. 0
      10 2021 June
      This is not a judgment, this is a judgment seat.
    29. +1
      10 2021 June
      [quote = Avior] [quote] only there is no point in presenting this edited photo, it will not prove anything [/ quote] if the editing procedure is agreed with the court, then such a photo will not lose probative value
    30. kig
      0
      11 2021 June
      The website of the Hague court only provides a summary of what happened during the day. Where can I find more detailed documents?
      1. +1
        11 2021 June
        which documents?
        there is an online chronicle of the court in Russian with the preservation of the archive
        https://graty.me/themes/krushenie-mh17/
        1. kig
          +1
          12 2021 June
          Quote: Avior
          there is online court chronicle

          Thank you!
          1. kig
            0
            12 2021 June
            Quote: Avior
            https://graty.me/themes/krushenie-mh17/

            This is a little different. Someone Tatyana Kozak and Anton Naumlyuk again retell in their own words what happened in the courtroom. How do they do it? In their series of reports, and their predecessors, nothing is said about this. They are unlikely to be present in the courtroom, so they watch the video and translate? By yourself or with the help of a translator? I have nothing against these journalists, but I personally would like to read something like a transcript. My spoken English is not bad, but I need to speak, and not listen to an English video. Alas, there is not enough talent for this.
            But thanks for that too.
            1. 0
              12 2021 June
              Is the process in English?
              https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UuA-Cs48bvA
              That is, you can shoot, it turns out that this is not always allowed in court.
              Is there a live broadcast and where is not in the know, especially the archive
              The transcripts of the hearings are being kept, this is understandable, but whether they are being made publicly available, I doubt they do not do this during court hearings before the verdict, and even after.
              Perhaps the journalists have access to the transcripts through some of the participants in the process.
              1. kig
                +1
                13 2021 June
                Quote: Avior
                Is the process in English?

                Most likely in the language of the host country wink Well, certainly not in Russian or Ukrainian smile
                In the videos that I watched, the sound is in English, but the soundtrack is a little lagging behind and sometimes there are slips of the tongue like "uh ...." That is, it seems that simultaneous translation is in progress.
    31. -1
      11 2021 June
      As far as I understand, there will be no questioning of witnesses? And then the question arises, which of them has seen or heard the launches of BUKs before?
      1. +1
        11 2021 June
        he was already
        https://graty.me/themes/krushenie-mh17/
    32. kig
      +2
      11 2021 June
      I would like, of course, a more detailed coverage of the court hearings in The Hague, and not just a cursory retelling of press releases. Although we will do the author a favor - for this you need to somehow get access to the broadcast of the meetings, if there are any (broadcast), and even be able to translate spoken English. And so ... But in general, these are the thoughts about:

      At the same time, the testimony of witnesses about the launch site of the missile that shot down Boeing does not match.
      - The usual thing. Naoorot, it would be strange if all the witnesses said the same thing. I don't see any crime here.
      Now about Amvrosievka.
      The court in the MH17 case ... did not take them into account, considering that it was too far for the complex

      I did a little work here and made the following map:



      Not very visible, but the red ring at the top is the area of ​​falling of the main debris, and the blot on the left is the last coordinates recorded by the black box. Although the cockpit and the bow flew almost straight to the course, which was 195 degrees (these places are not indicated on the map), and there are a couple of places even slightly north of the explosion site - they are not indicated on the map either. The bulk of the debris fell near the village. Three blots below and to the right are the places that were discussed at the meeting. A rocket could fly from there. So, Amvrosievka on this map, as you of course noticed, is not present at all. She went beyond the scale of the map. Of course, we do not know where Buk was (if he was there), but the distance from Amvrosievka as a settlement to the place where the rocket hit the plane is about 35 km. This is in a straight line - and this is one of the legs of the triangle, and the Boeing flew at an altitude of 12000 m - this is another leg. It is still possible to calculate the hypotenuse (although it will be very, very approximately), and in any case it will be more than 35 km. And what is the range of the Buk missile? Let the author read it, calculate it, and tell us.
      In addition, in the investigation, the Dutch Safety Board is a Dutch organization that investigates incidents in transport, its 280-page report can be found on the Internet, and even in Russian - the likely area of ​​missile launch is indicated.



      and there is no Ambrosievka. Moreover, our Almaz and Antey took part in calculating the launch area.


      And finally
      the court is examining the only version, according to which the Boeing was shot down by the Russian Buk complex from the territory controlled by the DPR. The options for the attack of the Ukrainian Air Force aircraft and the strike of the air defense complex belonging to the Ukrainian Armed Forces are not even considered
      - here the author is very mistaken. The fact is that a similar option, and even more exotic events such as a meteorite fall, were considered in detail by the above-named DSB. Considered and declared insolvent. And the court took this investigation into account and agreed with it. The striking elements confidently point to the Beech. Alas.

      And the silence of the American lambs really looks strange and mysterious. What is so secret about the pictures to tell us?
      1. 0
        12 2021 June
        Capabilities of the satellite that recorded the launch.
        Whether it is an early warning system or an intelligence satellite, its characteristics are probably secret for an obvious reason.
        In addition, in order to attach a photo to the case, you need to conduct its expertise, and for this you need to know these characteristics in detail, and even more correctly, to have similar equipment available. This is unrealistic.
        1. kig
          +1
          13 2021 June
          We have earned a minus - congratulations. Interestingly, minus players read court chronicles? I can imagine how many minuses they would have thrust on the judges.
          1. -1
            13 2021 June
            there is a category of people who react painfully to inconvenient facts that do not correspond to their beliefs

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