Military Review

"The lack of order for the F-35 was a big surprise": the US Air Force preferred a different fighter

104

The United States continues to upgrade its fighter fleet. aviation... However, in the new procurement program, there was unexpectedly no place for the newest attack aircraft F-35 - the military preferred a different fighter.


The biggest surprise was the lack of an order for additional F-35 fighters.

- noted in the publication Defense News.

As explained, no funds are foreseen for its acquisition during FY2022. At the same time, $ 1,4 billion is spent on the purchase of 12 F-15EX fighters, which should replace part of the decommissioned fleet of aging F-15C / D.

Officials from the US Air Force hinted that they expect an upgraded version of the F-2020 Block 35 to appear in the mid-4s. Against this background, instead of expanding their number, it was decided to spend money on maintaining the vehicles in good condition, in particular, to purchase engines for them, the lack of which "Causes aircraft to be unable to fly at high speeds."

So far, the procurement program developed by the Air Force is not final and is subject to approval by the US Congress. But it has already caused surprise in the Western expert community: the "advanced" F-35, widely advertised in foreign markets, suddenly ceased to be in demand in the American Air Force itself.
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  1. mojohed2012
    mojohed2012 3 June 2021 10: 31
    +17
    God bless the United States in the future to resume production of propeller-driven fighters instead of the F-15/16. With such power and such a state of society and a sharp struggle between Democrats and Republicans for power at any cost - that's where they go - to the margins of history ...
    1. Anachoret
      Anachoret 3 June 2021 10: 36
      +9
      and even better, that mattresses began to build shelves of the times of the first world in thousands))
      the main thing is that the pilots are gender and racially correct in terms of BLM, LGBT and other scary democratic letters)))
      1. The comment was deleted.
    2. RealPilot
      RealPilot 3 June 2021 10: 39
      +7
      Officials from the U.S. Air Force have hinted that they are expecting an upgraded version of the F-2020 Block 35 to arrive in the mid-4s.

      Then it means never. IN middle 2020x?
      That is, Lockheed-Martin was told that if they did not solve the problems with the "penguin", they would not order them again.

      And what will the expensive plant, the maintenance of which costs a lot of money, be doing all this time? Ahh, I understand. wink Aircraft for allies (like Poland, Ukraine waving a cap, and not only). But the British have already cut the order, at least in half, we are waiting for what others will say.
      1. donavi49
        donavi49 3 June 2021 11: 06
        +8
        And what will an expensive plant do all this time, the maintenance of which costs a lot of money?


        Stamp planes. They have a queue until the age of 28 under already signed contracts.

        Do not forget the unsuccessful penguin, which does not fly, does not shoot, does not carry weapons, has an onboard suffocation system for the pilot, such a failure that it is only under 700 machines have already been done. One unparalleled Su-57, which is in the army, will have to make at least 7 sorties to bury them all.

        The rate at which the Penguins are released should be increase by the year 22 - up to 180 cars per year, satisfying both state and export. For example, in 2018 they passed 91, 2019 - 134, 2020 - 148. Compare this with Shoigu's wishes to get 2 Su-57 in 21.

        Poland, Ukraine waving a cap


        Already about 20 countries with contracts, and all sorts of sheikhs and others are trying to beg for a contractor even for an overpricing (the Saudis are ready even today to transfer money to 42 cars, the UAE to 56).



        1. Cron
          Cron 3 June 2021 11: 34
          +14
          Quote: donavi49
          Do not forget the unsuccessful penguin, which does not fly, does not shoot, does not carry weapons, has an on-board suffocation system for the pilot, such a failure that only 700 machines have already done it.

          And how does your thing, "have already been made for 700 cars," has it to do with real quality? Well, of course, once they have poured so much money into it, they will take it into service anyway and put it on stream. In addition, several other countries took part in the development there.
          One unparalleled Su-57, which is in the army, will have to make at least 7 sorties to bury them all.

          The rate of production of Penguins should increase significantly by the year 22 - up to 180 cars per year, satisfying both state and export. For example, in 2018 they delivered 91, 2019 - 134, 2020 - 148. Compare this with Shoigu's wishes to get 2 Su-57 at 21.

          Shoigu's wishes are strictly limited by our budget. Well, this is, in my opinion, obvious things. Why bother with all the rest of the nonsense?
          How can quantity speak of quality? They have a lot of them, because there is much more money.
          Already about 20 countries with contracts, and all sorts of sheikhs and others are trying to beg for a contractor even for an overpricing (the Saudis are ready even today to transfer money to 42 cars, the UAE to 56).

          The Saudis, especially after the situation with dismemberment, are ready to kiss them so long as they do not find a lack of democracy there. In the same UAE, suddenly the oil will become the dirtiest in the world? Can this be? Sure! Or maybe again democracy will be lacking, we do not know for sure.
          You would also write about Israel, which receives part of the funds for the army from the United States.

          And I have nothing against the F-35. Perhaps the best in its class, perhaps not. Who knows? But what you wrote about is strictly related to US influence in the world and much greater financial opportunities. And that's all.
          1. bayard
            bayard 4 June 2021 00: 33
            -2
            Quote: Cron
            Shoigu's wishes are strictly limited by our budget. Well, this is, in my opinion, obvious things. Why bother with all the rest of the nonsense?
            How can quantity speak of quality? They have a lot of them, because there is much more money.

            What's wrong with the RF budget? Has his income dropped?
            But it is still chronically surplus!
            Moreover, even the funds that are allocated and allocated according to the articles are NOT fully spent on state and social needs.
            They are being saved!
            Last year, the "savings" on the scheduled items amounted to TRILLION RUBLES!
            This is in just one year.
            And only from the funds already allocated.
            Apart from the annual contribution to the "money box" - to finance the economies of the ENEMY.
            The budget is choked with money every year. But this money will not be spent on social and state needs (including defense). OTHER "people" need them.
            Quote: Cron
            How can quantity speak of quality?

            What quality are you talking about? About the quality of the Su-57?
            And what do you know about his qualities?
            In addition to well-known application characteristics?
            About the quality (and availability) of a modern Belka radar complex, for example?
            Could it be problems with this device that delay the launch of serial production of the Su-57?
            And how can you judge the quality of a combat aircraft when it is the ONLY serial one? Especially in comparison with combat aircraft already released in a series of hundreds of copies. Patriotism should not be expressed in stupidity and blindness.
            This is not a religion.
            Patriotism is love for the Motherland.
            And if the authorities of your Motherland cannot organize mass production of not only the 5th generation Su-57 fighter ... but also the good old Il-76 (in the MD90A modification), produced since the 90s Il-114 ... purchased long ago Czechs with a license and the entire L-410 plant ... the long-promised Ka-62 ... but just the simplest An-40 produced since the late 2s !!!!!
            Surely they can't?
            Or still they DO NOT WANT?
            And if the latter is true, then in what way should true patriotism be expressed?
            Which implies love for the Motherland.
            And not to those who built their entire well-being on its exploitation?
            The truth is that 700 F-35s have already been produced in the United States, and more will be produced.
            And the Russian Aerospace Forces is armed with TOTAL 480 fighters of all types. Including the old Soviet MiG-29 and Su-27 ... Despite the fact that in the middle of the last decade, the Russian industry produced over a hundred combat aircraft a year ... Or it could have been more.
            And there was money for it.
            And today they ARE.
            But the concern for defense in the modern Russian Federation is only in commercials and state propaganda in general.
            There is NO real concern about real defenses.
            For even these 480 fighters, smeared all over Bezkreinaya, without proper control, without lighting the air situation AT ALL HIGHLIGHTS by AWACS aircraft ... will not be able to do much.
            As well as there is no proper training of personnel - military specialists.
            And this is not out of stupidity.
            This is their position and purpose in life.
            1. region58
              region58 4 June 2021 01: 25
              +6
              Quote: bayard
              Surely they can't?

              Quote: bayard
              And there was money for it.
              And today they ARE.

              And ask yourself questions: where to make, who will make, and from what to make? Yes, I think you know the answers, and they are not very happy ... And the money? That money, money doesn't make an airplane blind, that's why they return it back to the budget. I will say a banal thing, but you need to start from school, in the broad sense of the word, otherwise the risk of losing many competencies looms ahead. Alas.
              1. bayard
                bayard 4 June 2021 02: 30
                +1
                And something needs to be done with the school. And vocational schools, technical schools to revive, so that there is a place for the production of specialists to take / prepare. And the Higher School must be returned to the proper level. And it is humanly necessary to pay people, especially SPECIALISTS. And create conditions for life and everyday life ...
                But the authorities have a different goal.
                And to the question "where to do, who to do" about combat aviation, I will simply say - there is where, to whom, what and from what to build. It's just that a very expensive government does not order anything. Rather, he grants orders drop by drop ... and does not set the result as a goal.
                The aviation industry is capable of supplying 16-18 Su-34s a year, and such aircraft are needed - old Su-24s need to be replaced in the shelves. The Su-30SM industry can produce 30 pieces per year in the light industry. Su-35 - 12 each - 20 pcs.
                But it doesn't.
                The capacities are idle.
                People start looking for another - more stable job, scatter.
                There is just a lot of money in the budget - they don't even have time to master the allocated funds. And this is without taking into account the "Budget Rule" and the inviolable "Egg".
                HOW can we talk about a "lack of money" after only one Winter Olympics burned so much money that it would be enough to build from scratch an AIRCRAFT FLEET of 6 aircraft carriers, with escort ships, air wings, training and education of personnel, and complete basic infrastructure for TWO FLEETS!
                But there was also the FIFA World Cup, which burned no less!
                There were also other mass games and shows.
                There were also "construction projects of the century" - pipelines to nowhere - an empty Power of Siberia for ... one more aircraft carrier fleet ...
                And you say - there is no money, no personnel, no capacity, not enough technology ...
                I don't have enough conscience.
                And responsibility.
                And there is still not enough Comrade Stalin with his faithful assistant and the best manager of history.
                And the death penalty for sabotage and treason.

                If there is no CONSCIENCE, there will be no school, no aviation ... nothing will happen.
                1. Osipov9391
                  Osipov9391 4 June 2021 02: 58
                  0
                  And the fact that Gorshkov was modernized a long time ago and better than Kuznetsov now for sale to India is that wrong too?
                  Would there be a second aircraft carrier in the fleet? On Gorshkov there are light MiG-29Ks, on Kuznetsov, heavy Su-33s.
                  Already many people regret having sold.
                  1. bayard
                    bayard 4 June 2021 04: 05
                    +2
                    Many regretted it when it was almost ready, but the Indians balked at the price. It was then that the wave arose not to give the Gorshkov to the Indians, to join the Navy in a pair with the Kuza, and immediately after the adoption of the Gorshkov, to repair and modernize ... The Indians then freaked out and agreed to the assigned price.
                    It would be much more useful to have two AVs, and Kuznetsov would have been repaired and modernized long ago. But there is what is.
                    Now we need to think about a new series of aircraft carriers ... just not atomic monsters, but AB Air Defense / PLO. For it is the SERIES that we need. Not scattered units.
                2. region58
                  region58 4 June 2021 03: 20
                  0
                  Quote: bayard
                  I don't have enough conscience.
                  And responsibility.

                  I absolutely agree with you. But conscience and responsibility are subtle and intangible matters, but when responsibility comes, for example, in the form of confiscation of property, it is sobering. Strong. But... request
                  Quote: bayard
                  And you say no money

                  No, there is money, but, as you know, nine women in labor will not give birth to a child in a month (s) ...
                  Quote: bayard
                  no staff, no capacity

                  But this I see around me constantly and everywhere. I would be very glad to be mistaken if the overall situation is different. I'm talking about high-tech areas. Although I constantly hear that even a good turner or welder is very difficult to find for any money.
                  Quote: bayard
                  Capacities are idle

                  This is definitely a crime, especially the fact that highly qualified specialists have to leave.
                  Quote: bayard
                  But the authorities have a different goal.

                  Quote: bayard
                  they do not have time to master even the allocated funds

                  Power is different. But mostly the beloved takes care of herself. By the way, until recently, there was a widespread scheme: they received budget money - they played it in their own bank - at the end of the year they shrugged their shoulders "couldn't, take the money back." Profit. Now they seem to have covered up the freebie ...
                  1. bayard
                    bayard 4 June 2021 04: 27
                    +4
                    Quote: region58
                    But conscience and responsibility are subtle and intangible matters, but when responsibility comes, for example, in the form of confiscation of property, it is sobering. Strong. But...

                    No, they will not whip themselves - there the hand washes a hand.
                    Quote: region58
                    But this I see around me constantly and everywhere. I would be very glad to be mistaken if the overall situation is different.

                    No, on the whole, this is exactly the situation, but I was talking about the production of combat aircraft, and we just can make them ... but the pace of production is constantly being reduced. And this despite the acute shortage of combat fighters, which are clearly not enough in such numbers. And this is in the presence of free money.
                    Quote: region58
                    Power is different. But mostly the beloved takes care of herself.

                    For the sake of this power, the Union was destroyed.
                    But they failed to create anything really viable, the state and society are degrading, and degrading rapidly. Under relentless guidance.
                    Indeed, in the same China, despite the fact that there are already more billionaires than in the United States, and capitalism is under the strict leadership of the Communist Party, but their billionaires work for the good of the state, pay taxes and bear the social burden. And they succeed in everything, they have enough for everyone. And the growth rate is the envy of everyone.
                    This is the QUALITY OF POWER.
                    And we have sheer savagery and feudalism with inviolability and impunity.
                    but the Chinese did everything, and continue to do everything according to Stalinist patterns ...
                    1. ramzay21
                      ramzay21 5 June 2021 03: 40
                      +1
                      I absolutely agree with you !!!
          2. roll
            roll 5 June 2021 08: 33
            -1
            This is just a mild indication of the place in the world at the very Vova "Botox" - 2% and its subjects. :)))
        2. Ratmir_Ryazan
          Ratmir_Ryazan 3 June 2021 14: 14
          +2
          Do not forget the unsuccessful penguin, which does not fly, does not shoot, does not carry weapons, has an on-board suffocation system for the pilot, such a failure that only 700 machines have already done it. One unparalleled Su-57, which is in the army, will have to make at least 7 sorties to bury them all.


          Vietnam had hundreds of times fewer aircraft than the United States and not a single aircraft carrier, but with the help of air defense missile systems and a small number of fighters throughout the US, they were able to destroy more than 4000 US aircraft and UAVs and about 6000 helicopters, thereby forcing the United States to leave their wars. and then we smashed their proxies.

          So Russia does not need to compete with the United States in the number of fighters, we guard our skies with air defense systems - S-500/400/350/300 BUKs, TORs, Armor and air defense missile systems, and our fighters are a mobile air defense reserve.

          This is the only way we can keep parity with the United States, NATO and all other countries.

          But the fact is that either Turkey is abandoning the F-35 in favor of the S-400, now the US itself does not want to buy the F-35. Probably, something is not quite all right with this fighter-bomber, since the United States decided to modernize the old F-15 platform instead, the whole point is probably that the low visibility of the F-35 turned out to be in fact not so small.
          1. donavi49
            donavi49 3 June 2021 14: 25
            +5
            Turkey is not abandoning the F-35 in favor of the S-400. She really wants the F-35 and even built a boat for them - so to speak, a pocket aircraft carrier for 8-12 aircraft, where the UAVs will now be installed.

            She simply chooses between being a vassal / puppet with no opinion or conducting her own politics, building her own sphere of influence and her own puppets / vassals. The S-400 is more of an excuse / reason. For example, they sell everything to Greece despite the S-300PMU2.

            Much time has passed since Vietnam. For example, Iraq was twice crushed to dust, despite the even greater density and power of the air defense systems.
            1. Ratmir_Ryazan
              Ratmir_Ryazan 3 June 2021 23: 22
              0
              In Iraq, there were outdated air defense systems and there were no Russian specialists, and at the same time, in the first war of 1990-1991, they shot down more than 50 US and NATO aircraft.

              If Iraq had a modern air defense system and a motivated army, the alignment could be different.
          2. bayard
            bayard 4 June 2021 00: 53
            +6
            Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
            So Russia does not need to compete with the United States in the number of fighters, we guard our skies with air defense systems - S-500/400/350/300 BUKs, TORs, Armor and air defense missile systems, and our fighters are a mobile air defense reserve.

            Did you know that the full ammunition load of a flight (4 pieces) of Su-27 \ 30 \ 35 fighters is equal to the ammunition load of the S-300 \ 350 \ 400 air defense missile system battalion?
            But this link can have much more ammunition. And at a greater distance.
            And at any height.
            The rate is only on ground air defense, this is a passive defense that completely gives up the initiative to the enemy and can be easily overloaded when the enemy forces are concentrated in one direction.
            That is why the United States and not only build its air defense mainly on fighter aircraft. And they have a reason for this.
            And the Russian Aerospace Forces has 480 fighters of all types and ages in service ... and EVERYTHING.
            Oh yes, another 9 AWACS aircraft, of which only 5 - 6 were upgraded to the A-50U level ... which (modernization) did not bring them even to the level of American AWACS in the early 80s.
            Of course, competing in the number of fighters with the United States is not worth it ... you just need to have them in service as much as necessary to reliably cover all areas of possible aggression.
            And the number of 480 fighters does not correspond to such a task.
            1. Ratmir_Ryazan
              Ratmir_Ryazan 4 June 2021 14: 55
              +1
              Did you know that the full ammunition load of a flight (4 pieces) of Su-27 \ 30 \ 35 fighters is equal to the ammunition load of the S-300 \ 350 \ 400 air defense missile system battalion?


              Where did you get this from and how did you compare it?

              For example, the S-400 division near the border of any country closes the airspace over this country 400/24 by 7 km in depth, but how will 4 fighters do this?

              How long can you keep fighters in the air to control the airspace? How much money does it take for an hour of duty of an air defense missile system battalion anyway cheaper than an hour of duty in the air of 4 fighters.

              To what depth can a fighter control this very airspace?

              What is easier to disguise the S-400 battalion on the ground using, among other things, false positions or 4 fighters in the air?

              Who is longer and more expensive to train a pilot or a crew of an air defense missile system?

              In my opinion, ground-based air defense systems are much more resilient as the basis of the country's air defense than fighters alone. Even if they "play" on the defensive.

              And your theory does not fight with the practice of the same war in Vietnam. Where air defense and fighters were of the same generation. The victory was for ground-based air defense systems.

              In the same Yugoslavia, fighters could not oppose anything to the NATO armada, and the old air defense systems shot down several aircraft, UAVs and cruise missiles.

              Take other local conflicts, Russia in the same Georgia lost 10 aircraft. If Georgia had more and denser air defense, it would not have been sacred for us to fly in the air there at all.

              The Donbass militia shot down 30 planes and helicopters of the Armed Forces of Ukraine from MANPADS, and if they really had an S-400 with a Russian crew, not a single plane would take off from the airfield of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

              And the war between Armenia and Azerbaijan, where there were enough air defense systems, nullified the use of fighters, moreover, by both sides.

              In Syria, Assad's army has several modern air defense systems and this keeps Turkey and Israel from violating the airspace of this country.

              The USA relies on fighters not because they are the best air defense system, but because they always attack others !!! They are always the attacking side, and therefore they do not just fighters, but fighter-bombers.

              And Russia does not abandon fighters at all, we are now supplying the troops with MiG-31/36, Su-30/34/35/57, and all these are fighters.

              And in addition to air defense systems and fighters, we are building missiles that, if enemy aircraft are concentrated near our borders, will instantly target all airfields, depots with fuel and lubricants and ammunition for them. And as soon as this armada takes off, they will have nowhere to land, if someone survives.

              The main task of our army and navy is to ensure the security of the country, and not to compete numerically in fighters with the United States.
              1. bayard
                bayard 4 June 2021 20: 53
                +1
                Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
                Where did you get this from and how did you compare it?

                Exclusively from personal experience - the experience of an old air defense officer. smile
                Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
                For example, the S-400 division near the border of any country closes the airspace over this country 400/24 by 7 km in depth,

                And at what heights does he close this space?
                After all, the Earth is round.
                Now, if low-altitude targets are coming? At an altitude of 30 - 50 m? Moreover, they hide behind the folds of the terrain. wink Didn’t think about it?
                And I will answer you - at a distance of 20 - 35 km from the position, well, maybe 40 km. if the position is on a hill.
                Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
                and how will 4 fighters do it?

                One fighter will do this too. If there is target designation from the AWACS aircraft, and on the R-37M suspensions, then at a distance of up to 300 km. If R-27 \ R-77 - at ranges of 110 - 120 km.
                Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

                How long can you keep fighters in the air to control the airspace? How much money does it take for an hour of duty of an air defense missile system battalion anyway cheaper than an hour of duty in the air of 4 fighters.

                You touch me. But why keep them in the air? They can also be on duty at the airfield, and each in different degrees of readiness. We once lifted the interceptor into the air in 1 minute. And voila.
                Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
                To what depth can a fighter control this very airspace?

                If the fighter is in the air, then it all depends on whether there is external target designation (AWACS aircraft, ground-based radars, including ZGRLS), and with his radar, he will see the target at a distance at which its performance characteristics and characteristics (EPR) of the target allow. It's better for you to look in the reference books yourself, there are a lot of numbers, a lot of text, if you really are interested, it will be interesting.
                Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

                What is easier to disguise the S-400 battalion on the ground using, among other things, false positions or 4 fighters in the air?

                When a battalion turns on its radars for radiation, it glows for thousands of kilometers - like a beacon, much further than it sees itself. believe me, this is exactly the case.
                Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
                Who is longer and more expensive to train a pilot or a crew of an air defense missile system?

                The air defense missile system has a combat crew, and the anti-aircraft missile division is a very large unit, with all the parks and infrastructure ... and it is expensive. look at what two regimental sets (so far one has been delivered), two divisions each, the Turks cost ...
                And to disguise the position of the passive air defense system ... you can. But only until the moment he comes to life.
                Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
                In my opinion, ground-based air defense systems are much more stable as the basis of the country's air defense than fighters alone. Even if they "play" on the defensive.

                Any, the most dense and saturated air defense system can be overloaded with targets and suppressed. It all depends on the desire and capabilities of the enemy. The Iron Dome also confirmed this, although there were a lot of air defense weapons on a very narrow sector of the front ... but they were still overloaded.
                Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
                Who is longer and more expensive to train a pilot or a crew of an air defense missile system?

                Count the number of officer positions in the calculation of the S-300 division, as well as ensigns, sergeants and privates. And the question is not about price / cost, but about the final efficiency.
                Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

                In my opinion, ground-based air defense systems are much more resilient as the basis of the country's air defense than fighters alone. Even if they "play" on the defensive.

                All air defense systems have their own goals and objectives. What fighter-interceptors are capable of doing is beyond the power of air defense systems, but air defense systems with object air defense are simply irreplaceable and capable of repelling a massive raid, especially while the fighters are reloading on the ground.
                In the USSR, a good half of all fighters were part of the USSR Air Defense Forces! You probably did not know this. Only the combination of air defense missile systems and aircrafts gave that completeness of stability, which was distinguished by the air defense of the USSR.
                Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
                And your theory does not fight with the practice of the same war in Vietnam. Where air defense and fighters were of the same generation. The victory was for ground-based air defense systems.

                Vietnam could not compete with the United States with its fighter aircraft, especially "on an equal footing", their fighters operated from ambushes. The air defense missile systems acted in approximately the same way - they were constantly dragged from place to place, camouflaged, waited for the enemy to accidentally run into them, made a volley and immediately made feet.
                I knew people who passed Vietnam as air defense advisers ... who themselves shot down a lot of American game ...
                But.
                At the same time, US aviation undividedly dominated the air.
                And at the same time it suffered huge losses.
                And Vietnam's victory was due to their STEADY, their endurance and tenacity. And the Americans just fizzled out and broke down.
                And they almost went broke in that war.
                Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
                In the same Yugoslavia, fighters could not oppose anything to the NATO armada, and the old air defense systems shot down several aircraft, UAVs and cruise missiles.

                In Yugoslavia, the air defense functioned exactly the same as in its time the air defense of Vietnam - from ambushes. Sometimes our ship group in the Mediterranean gave them target designation for targets from the sea.
                Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
                Take other local conflicts, Russia in the same Georgia lost 10 aircraft. If Georgia had more and denser air defense, it would not have been sacred for us to fly in the air there at all.

                Russia lost its planes from being unprepared for such events. And out of ignorance that Georgia has a Buk air defense system. This came as an extremely unpleasant surprise. As soon as they figured out what they had, the air defense was suppressed, its means were destroyed.
                Losses were due to confusion, and trained pilots from all over Russia were then collected in a fire brigade. The VF army was then in a depressing state. And the conclusions were drawn - the rearmament of the Army, its reforming began ... With Serdyukov's freaks and Medvedev's quirks, but nevertheless, the Army was revived.
                Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
                The Donbass militia shot down 30 planes and helicopters of the Armed Forces of Ukraine from MANPADS, and if they really had an S-400 with a Russian crew, not a single plane would take off from the airfield of the Armed Forces of Ukraine

                We only had MANPADS and Strela-10. The lack of training and qualifications of Ukrainian pilots also played into the hands.
                Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
                And the war between Armenia and Azerbaijan, where there were enough air defense systems, nullified the use of fighters, moreover, by both sides.

                But the UAVs felt quite at ease there.
                Azerbaijan has had a lesson for itself the loss of several aircraft in previous conflicts. Therefore, I went the other way. And he was right.
                Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
                In Syria, Assad's army has several modern air defense systems and this keeps Turkey and Israel from violating the airspace of this country.

                This does not particularly deter Israel, which could have demolished the Syrian air defense long ago (because it is outdated, and the Israeli Air Force is one of the most advanced in the world). Our group in Syria is holding everyone there. And first of all, the presence of our fighters there.
                Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
                The USA relies on fighters not because they are the best air defense system, but because they always attack others !!!

                No, they just have no enemies and opponents with strong aircraft on the North American continent. And we have few long-range bombers, and they are all carriers of the CD. And it is more convenient to fight the CD with fighters.
                That is why I wrote that only fighters will be effective against the CD, because the CD will bypass the positions of our air defense systems.
          3. region58
            region58 4 June 2021 01: 36
            +1
            Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
            with the help of air defense systems and a small number of fighters throughout the US

            In what way were the fighters of the USSR inferior to the American ones? SAM, even more so. Well, the pilot Li Si Tsin is a well-known meme, even before the Internet.
            1. ramzay21
              ramzay21 5 June 2021 03: 30
              +2
              During the Vietnam War, our aircraft were of the same generation and our MiG 21 and their F4 Phantom, and therefore fought on equal terms.
              If now MiG 29 or even MiG 35 meet with F35, then it will simply be beating MiGs.
              Although 30 years ago, after Gorbach's betrayal, the MiG 29 of the GDR Air Force almost dryly butchered the American F16s in training battles, they have since modernized their F16s and made an aircraft of another generation F35
              1. region58
                region58 5 June 2021 04: 40
                +1
                Quote: ramzay21
                If now MiG 29 or even MiG 35 meet with F35, then it will simply be beating MiGs.

                It's strange how you are comparing ... It would be more logical to compare with SU, and then it is wrong to directly compare. Airplanes are not fighting one-on-one now, they are all part of a complex that includes ground, air and space means. And why all of a sudden the "beating" will be? Check out, for example, this material: https://www.arms-expo.ru/news/archive/amerikanskiy-f-35-uverenno-proigraet-rossiyskomu-su-35-no-est-voprosy12-12-2008 -17-09-00 /
                Let me take a screenshot from there:

                So, as they say - "not everything is so simple" ...
                1. ramzay21
                  ramzay21 5 June 2021 08: 41
                  +1
                  It is strange to compare the F35 with the Su 35, these are aircraft of different classes. The Su 35, like the Su57, can be compared with the F22, they are just classmates.
                  The F 35 is a single-engine light fighter, like the MiG 29 and MiG 35. Although the Su 35's chances against the F35 are not much greater.
                  Real training battles showed a confident advantage of the F35 over the latest versions of the F15, analogues of our Su 35S, so do not flatter yourself.

                  If we compare everything in the complex, then the situation is even more dire. Their space intelligence is on a whole different level, and with different orders of satellites.
                  They have almost a hundred AWACS aircraft, and they constantly work out the interaction of fighters, tankers, AWACS aircraft and air defense systems of ships.
                  We have nothing to oppose with five A50U AWACS aircraft based on the technologies of the 90s, with several refuelers.
                  It will turn out like in Yugoslavia, when their AWACS detected the MiG 29 of the Yugoslav Air Force at a distance of 600 km and pointed F15s at them, which flew up to the PMV to the MiG 29 and fired missiles that were directed by AWACS. All four pilots of the MiG 29 did not even understand where the missiles were coming from.
                  And the F35 does not even need to go to PMV, the Su 35 radar will see it at best 20 kilometers, while the F35 radar will see it 150-200 kilometers, launch an AIM120 rocket and fly back. If there are AWACS, and they are, then all our planes will be shot down quickly and in an orderly manner.
                  The only one who can withstand the F35 and F22 on equal terms is the Su 57, with the declared characteristics, if it is brought to mind, the second stage engine and the corresponding electronics will be installed. And then the question is in his qualities, it was not by chance that Poghosyan was fired and the Indians did not want to make an airplane with us, having familiarized themselves with the Su 57 and F35 live.
                  1. region58
                    region58 5 June 2021 15: 57
                    +1
                    Quote: ramzay21
                    If we compare everything in the complex, then the situation is even more dire.

                    Take into account the ground component of the air defense and there will be no horror.
                    Quote: ramzay21
                    fired AWACS-directed missiles

                    It does not happen.
                    Quote: ramzay21
                    It is strange to compare the F35 with the Su 35, these are aircraft of different classes

                    Actually, I'm talking about the same thing. It would be wrong to compare even with the MIG, even with the SU. Different application concepts.
                    PS Although, why not compare? What will the NATO troops tell us: here we will attack you on the F-35, you don’t raise your SU-35s, because it’s disproportionate ... So what?
                    1. ramzay21
                      ramzay21 6 June 2021 00: 07
                      +1
                      Take into account the ground component of the air defense and there will be no horror.

                      Firstly, any ground complex without external target designation is limited by the radio horizon. This means that he is able to detect a low-flying target from 10 to 70 km, depending on the terrain, and the range of the missiles can be at least 500 km, he cannot use them, because he has no targets on his radar.
                      Ground-based air defense systems begin to work at a long range if the radar is raised to a height, for this we need an AWACS aircraft, but we do not have them. There is no other way, this is the law of physics.
                      Secondly, these complexes are easily overloaded with targets and then it takes time to recharge, which no one will give.
                      Thirdly, these complexes cannot cover the entire territory of the country, only separate objects and any Tomohawk flies around them without going into the coverage area of ​​air defense systems, there is nothing to say about the plane.
                      It does not happen.

                      So it was in 1999, it's a fact.
                      1. region58
                        region58 7 June 2021 04: 36
                        +1
                        Quote: ramzay21
                        So it was in 1999, it's a fact.

                        Okay, let's figure it out. What do you mean when you say:
                        Quote: ramzay21
                        pointed at them F15, which flew in PMV to the MiG 29 and launched missiles, which were directed by AWACS

                        Straight point by point. What missiles, how AWACS guided them, and other details.
                        Quote: ramzay21
                        And the F35 radar will see its kilometers for 150-200

                        For example, for AN / APG77, the specified range is achieved with an RCS target of 3 square meters. and has a detection probability of 0,5 when scanning in a sector of 0.1 from the general sector of the radar for 2 seconds. Simply put, he will either see or not, if he knows exactly where to look. This is in ideal conditions, which have nothing to do with combat. How is the APG-81 with that?
                        Quote: ramzay21
                        capable of detecting targets in passive mode.

                        In the LPI mode, the maximum distance in theory is up to 55 km in the complete absence of jamming from the enemy, since this mode is very sensitive to the noise component. In reality, much less.
                        Enough for now.
                    2. ramzay21
                      ramzay21 6 June 2021 06: 13
                      +1
                      Su 35 makes aerobatics much better than F35, but in a battle against F35 it has little chances.
                      The RCS of the Su 35 is ten times greater than that of the F 35, which means that with the same radars the F 35 detects and attacks the Su-35 much earlier. But the bad news is that the F-35 not only has a much more effective radar, it is of a different generation, all-round and is capable of detecting targets in a passive mode. The Su 35 has none of this. The Irbis radar can detect targets only at oncoming angles, and the F 35 radar is capable of detecting targets in all angles, 360 degrees around the aircraft.
          4. ramzay21
            ramzay21 4 June 2021 03: 59
            +1
            So Russia does not need to compete with the United States in the number of fighters, we guard our skies with air defense systems - S-500/400/350/300 BUKs, TORs, Armor and air defense missile systems, and our fighters are a mobile air defense reserve.

            Air defense systems cannot cover the entire country, they only protect certain zones. Radars of any air defense missile system can detect a target only at the range of the radio horizon, that is, at a maximum of 100 km, and a low-flying target is even less. Therefore, for the full-fledged operation of the C350, C400, and even more so the C500, AWACS aircraft are needed, which are not there. Moreover, any air defense can be disabled either by a large number of targets or by a missile. A full-fledged air defense is impossible without modern fighters and AWACS aircraft, and according to this parameter, there is no parity, not only with NATO and the United States, even with Japan and Turkey, but with the appearance of the F35 in the Polish Air Force, it will not become even with Poland.

            But the fact is that either Turkey is abandoning the F-35 in favor of the S-400, now the US itself does not want to buy the F-35. Probably, something is not quite all right with this fighter-bomber, since the United States decided to modernize the old F-15 platform instead, the whole point is probably that the low visibility of the F-35 turned out to be in fact not so small.


            This article is complete nonsense and is possibly taken out of context that the United States does not make new orders for the F35. But why do they if they already ordered 2500 of these aircraft?
            The F15 EX is an analogue of our Su 34 and Su 30 SM, it is a front-line bomber based on a heavy fighter, this is a completely different aircraft, with different tasks.
            We are the Su 35S trying to replace the Su 57, most likely because of its flaws, for the same reason Poghosyan was kicked out.
        3. Jager
          Jager 3 June 2021 19: 33
          0
          The Japanese are quite capable of making their own fighter. But the owner said to buy an F-35))
        4. Old Skeptic
          Old Skeptic 3 June 2021 19: 54
          +1
          such a failure that it has already been done for about 700 cars.

          This is what the life-giving power of marketing does!
          Shit is shit, and after it there is a line, like for a Wi-Fi.
        5. Eug
          Eug 3 June 2021 20: 33
          0
          Is there a guarantee that as a result of a refusal, albeit a temporary one, potential buyers will not reconsider their plans and wishes?
        6. Captain45
          Captain45 3 June 2021 23: 00
          0
          Quote: donavi49
          that it has already been done for 700 cars.

          Now think: "Where am I going to bury you all?" recourse lol
        7. mvg
          mvg 4 June 2021 18: 36
          +2
          The only serial Su-57 is not in the army. Is assigned to the training center. But your rhetoric is correct. At least 7 sorties wassat
      2. mojohed2012
        mojohed2012 3 June 2021 12: 12
        +1
        So Michal Sergeich is a specialist - he will tell you! Let them drive the conversion, let them need ladles, tea pans and frying pans on Lockheed and Boeing more.
      3. TermNachTer
        TermNachTer 3 June 2021 17: 37
        -1
        Do not worry about Lockheed)))) through the Washington Reich Chancellery, they will "bend" the Pentagon. And they will buy this bullshit, if not 2022, then in 2-23.
      4. Captain45
        Captain45 3 June 2021 22: 58
        0
        Quote: RealPilot
        And what will the expensive plant, the maintenance of which costs a lot of money, be doing all this time? Ahh, I understand.

        Sheriff's niggas problems don't sway laughing
    3. Maz
      Maz 3 June 2021 12: 42
      0
      Shaw was to be expected ...
  2. knn54
    knn54 3 June 2021 10: 33
    +4
    It is UNREALABLE to create a universal, cheap. Even if it is a massive, "stealth plane"
    1. Reviews
      Reviews 3 June 2021 11: 05
      +1
      Quote: knn54
      It is UNREALABLE to create a universal, cheap. Even if it is a massive, "stealth plane"

      Such attempts have been made many times in many countries. Nothing good came of it. What is "stealth", what is not "stealth" ...
      1. restless
        restless 4 June 2021 06: 25
        +1
        However, the airframe must be made of plywood and composites, and the engines must be made of plastic and ceramics, then there will be stealth ...
  3. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 3 June 2021 10: 34
    +4
    So this is a commercial project ... It was developed in the paradigm of the absence of worthy opponents in the sky. And here on you. There was a threat to meet fighters in the sky. And those who are to meet them immediately "sobered" ... wassat
  4. Piramidon
    Piramidon 3 June 2021 10: 35
    +5
    Yankesov can be congratulated. We sold this semi-finished product to all our satellites. The suckers' divorce was successful.
  5. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 3 June 2021 10: 35
    +14
    The Air Force received in recent years in lots of 12,13,14, respectively
    149, 160 and 169 F-35 aircraft.
    Lot 15 for 2023 will be presumably 148 F-35
    They want to pause for a year and then immediately receive a new Block 4.
    And in 2022, buy only extra. engines and spare parts.

    Lot 15, which delivers in 2023, will likely call for 148 aircraft, she said. The totals for Lots 16 and 17 aren't yet available. Lots 12, 13, and 14 were for 149, 160, and 169 jets, respectively.
  6. sabakina
    sabakina 3 June 2021 10: 38
    +2
    It looks like the US military is suspicious. But our local friends from Israel will quickly return them to the zone of illusion. bully
    1. Forcecom
      Forcecom 3 June 2021 11: 05
      +2
      That is why, for some reason, I am fundamentally sure that only our local friends from Israel will have the F-35 and will fly the maximum speed and, in general, only they will have it as a normal combat aircraft, since they will bring it to mind with their own hands.
    2. Piramidon
      Piramidon 3 June 2021 12: 00
      -1
      Quote: sabakina
      our local friends from Israel will quickly return them to the zone of illusion.

      Well, what do you want? Do they really confess that they were divorced?
  7. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 3 June 2021 10: 38
    +11
    purchase engines for them, lack of which "leads to the fact that aircraft become unable to fly at high speeds"
    Strange wording. In the absence of an engine, the aircraft will not be able to fly at all, or do they fly on pedal power during this period, but at low speeds?
    1. sabakina
      sabakina 3 June 2021 10: 48
      +3
      Gennady prYuvet! You do not understand, they can fly, but not fast and not high. And as I wrote above, Voyaka Uh is already turning them into illusions. wink
      1. Ascold1901
        Ascold1901 3 June 2021 11: 01
        0
        “The stupa is old! It does not fly higher than a fathom! "© (Baba Yaga," The Last Hero ")
      2. Piramidon
        Piramidon 3 June 2021 12: 04
        +1
        Quote: sabakina
        Warrior Uh is already spinning them into illusion.

        "Voyaka Uh" knows everything, has been everywhere, flew on everything and managed everything, personally. lol
    2. Forcecom
      Forcecom 3 June 2021 11: 02
      0
      Why pedal traction, this is totalitarianism and a relic of the past, and generally not according to "Western", there are more democratic technologies, for example, launching a penguin using an elastic band from a pilot's thong, or other rubber products.
      In general, either the cant of the translation or the journalist's special outlook on life, since the wording is really striking in its form.
    3. CYM
      CYM 3 June 2021 11: 06
      +1
      "Normal" business strategy, sell expensive aircraft to the allies and then put them on a long-term queue for expensive engines. On the other hand, partners and allies will be able to carry stealth while taxiing even on horse-drawn traction and bend their fingers in front of their neighbors. tongue And Rostec does not seem to be in a hurry with the launch of the Su-57 with a second stage engine for a reason.
    4. Pandiurin
      Pandiurin 4 June 2021 08: 31
      0
      Quote: rotmistr60
      purchase engines for them, lack of which "leads to the fact that aircraft become unable to fly at high speeds"
      Strange wording. In the absence of an engine, the aircraft will not be able to fly at all, or do they fly on pedal power during this period, but at low speeds?


      If there are not enough spare engines, then it is necessary to conserve the resource on the aircraft, i.e. including using the afterburner as little as possible.

      No afterburner - no maximum high speeds.
  8. APASUS
    APASUS 3 June 2021 10: 51
    0
    Because the F-35 can only boast a stealth attachment, and the F-15EX covers all the main characteristics
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 3 June 2021 11: 03
      +7
      Except for the most important thing - stealth on radars. The F-15's EPR is not just large, but very large. The F-15 is a clear "calling card" on air defense radars and aircraft radars. Therefore, the F-15 was turned into a second-line air carrier for long-range explosive missiles. While the F-35s will suppress air defense and then ground targets, the F-15s will (without approaching the enemy) defend them with their arsenal of missiles from attacks by enemy fighters. A very intelligent symbiosis.
      1. APASUS
        APASUS 3 June 2021 11: 05
        0
        Quote: voyaka uh
        Except for the most important thing - stealth on radars. The F-15 has EPR - not just large, but very large

        Well, you are an adult, absolute invisibility does not exist. The F-35 does not have that plus, for which everyone is so killed.
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 3 June 2021 12: 06
          +7
          Well, you are also an adult and you understand: absolute and not required. wink
          It takes one to get closer and shoot before the enemy fires.
          Look, Russia, too, has taken great care of stealth: the Su-57, the PAK-DA, and the corvettes.
          And they even decided to coat the Iskander missile with a stealth coating. And all this is being developed by adults like you and me! drinks
          1. APASUS
            APASUS 3 June 2021 12: 08
            +1
            Quote: voyaka uh
            all this is being developed by adults like you and me!

            well done, well written drinks
        2. Yngvar
          Yngvar 3 June 2021 12: 11
          0
          Moreover! Russian developments (albeit still experimental, or few in number) now allow "to see" small areas of EPR. So I suppose the F-35 may turn out to be a "second line driver" ...
          1. APASUS
            APASUS 3 June 2021 13: 30
            +4
            Quote: Yngvar
            So I suppose the F-35 may turn out to be a "second line driver" ...

            So it is already not intended for air combat, it is to release a rocket and escape
  9. K-50
    K-50 3 June 2021 10: 54
    -1
    purchase engines for them, the lack of which "makes the aircraft incapable of flying at high speeds."

    What? belay
    Do they have disposable motors? belay belay
    How is it that the newest fighters need replacement of engines, because they cannot fly? Where did the money go, Zin?
    And this is called "a country of high culture and everyday life!", That is, "the most high-tech on the planet"!
    fellow wassat
  10. Bigriver
    Bigriver 3 June 2021 10: 55
    +1
    In fact, under Bidon, there was an interesting change in the concept of the military budget. The 2022 budget is currently being discussed in Congress.
    ... the 2022 budget will have “probably the biggest demand” for research and development to counter China's growing military power.

    https://breakingdefense.com/2021/05/secdef-rd-spending-to-skyrocket-in-22-budget/

    US Navy ...
    ... requested a budget that would increase availability in the near future by investment in ship and aircraft maintenance, but reduced procurement and force structure, again suspending plans to increase the fleet.

    Even by Russian standards, the volume of purchases is ... well, very modest. 8 ships for 2022, of which only four are combat (2 nuclear submarines, a destroyer and a frigate).
    More than 200 aircraft are being withdrawn from the Air Force, less than one and a half hundred have been purchased.
    In general, more attention is paid to R&D and maintenance to the detriment of the procurement of new equipment.
  11. Normal
    Normal 3 June 2021 11: 01
    +1
    Apparently not necessary. Maybe too expensive. Maybe just a "bad" plane.
    Or maybe there is no potential enemy, to counter which such an aircraft is needed.
  12. Grossvater
    Grossvater 3 June 2021 11: 07
    0
    To be expected. The project is doomed not even from the moment of conception, but when dad threw his leg over mom yes
    An attempt to pile a conventional aircraft in the fuselage of the vertical led to an unreasonable increase in the midsection. Everything else is just consequences, incl. the engine turned out to be overcomplicated because of this.
  13. Maks1995
    Maks1995 3 June 2021 11: 10
    0
    Ha. Like announced in advance.
    So it was a big surprise for various anonymous media, but not for the military.
  14. Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 3 June 2021 11: 26
    +1
    Why are there so many emotions?
    These "penguins" have already been riveted enough.
    So many that they do not even have time to repair / maintain. New ones already have nowhere to cram. Therefore, it is perfectly logical to slow down.
    And there are new modernized ones on the way, all the more there is no need to take old ones.
  15. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 3 June 2021 11: 31
    -1
    purchase engines for them, the lack of which "makes the aircraft incapable of flying at high speeds."
    You just need to buy sails and oars, with which to increase the speed to the speed required by officials!
  16. RadioRocks
    RadioRocks 3 June 2021 11: 40
    0
    How long can you read this lie! "Suddenly there was no place" ... Ugh! Here's the news for yesterday: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-lockheed-outlook/lockheed-aims-to-produce-169-f-35-fighter-jets-in-2022-idUSKCN2DE2B6 - Lockheed Martin has the target is to produce 169 F 35 fighters in 2020, in 2021 the company expects to deliver from 133 to 139 of these aircraft. It is somehow very strange that our articles are translated)
    1. Bigriver
      Bigriver 3 June 2021 11: 57
      +1
      If you read carefully, then everything is adequately translated :)
      We are talking about ADDITIONAL F-35 fighters for the Air Force.
      That is, there will be 48 pieces in 2022, but not more.
      Here is the original:
      But the biggest surprise was the notable absence of additional F-35 Joint Strike Fighters.

      https://www.defensenews.com/congress/budget/2021/06/02/air-force-asks-for-more-f-15ex-jets-in-fy22-unfunded-wish-list-not-f-35s/

      And yes! The Air Force wants more F-15EX.
  17. Prisoner
    Prisoner 3 June 2021 11: 44
    -1
    winked Americans are so altruistic, so altruistic. All the best to the vassals, though for a lot of money. But they give the last, they don't even leave it to themselves. laughing
  18. Shahno
    Shahno 3 June 2021 12: 06
    0
    500-600 copies
  19. Wolf
    Wolf 3 June 2021 12: 14
    0
    Of course the American generals saw it that the Serbs were gone in 1999. It took 21 years. Not bad ! smile
    1. Wolf
      Wolf 3 June 2021 12: 18
      0
      On this concept, they could only make a non-identifiable plane .........
      If they tried with a plasma field near the plane, maybe they would have had time ??? smile
      1. Wolf
        Wolf 3 June 2021 12: 20
        0
        Tolkn billions to spend on a project a blunder cannot be clever ludi, with this money they could solve the problems of hunger in Africa!
  20. rocket757
    rocket757 3 June 2021 12: 43
    +2
    In the Air Force, striped people are not boobies, although they are the BEST. So they sent the manufacturer a "subtle hint" that they would wait for the best ... if they succeed.
    1. cniza
      cniza 3 June 2021 13: 14
      +1
      Well yes . in the meantime, let them finalize the "file" ...
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 3 June 2021 15: 48
        +1
        The swing was not even a ruble, but a ten ... not shmogla.
        1. cniza
          cniza 3 June 2021 16: 02
          +2
          But the vassals got it all off, for a lot of money ...
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 3 June 2021 16: 13
            +1
            There, too, not everything is so good ... some have already realized that it is like a colonial tax to the main one, but it’s expensive.
            1. cniza
              cniza 3 June 2021 16: 50
              +3
              They finish it on them, but the Israelis seem to have finalized it themselves, in terms of software and are happy ...
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 3 June 2021 17: 58
                0
                It’s a long and not businesslike affair, especially since the fundamental problems cannot be eliminated ... and the “chosen ones” cannot fight on it, for bandit raids it will do.
                1. cniza
                  cniza 3 June 2021 21: 44
                  +2
                  Painfully expensive for bandit raids, though ...
                  1. rocket757
                    rocket757 3 June 2021 22: 43
                    +2
                    They have their own get-together ... not even interesting.
  21. Maz
    Maz 3 June 2021 12: 51
    0
    Quote: voyaka uh
    Except for the most important thing - stealth on radars. The F-15's EPR is not just large, but very large. The F-15 is a clear "calling card" on air defense radars and aircraft radars. Therefore, the F-15 was turned into a second-line air carrier for long-range explosive missiles. While the F-35s will suppress air defense and then ground targets, the F-15s will (without approaching the enemy) defend them with their arsenal of missiles from attacks by enemy fighters. A very intelligent symbiosis.

    Something I have not seen or heard that the Americans after Serbia fought with someone who is able to at least something to oppose them to conventional planes and missiles. And the way they dashed across Syria with a volley of tomahawks suggests that the rate will not be placed on the F-35 when attacking the enemy. This may be true for Israel. But not for a serious country with powerful armed forces. Perhaps, to distract from a large-scale strike, but this is not realistic in our time. And for the suppression of countries such as Syria, Mozambique, Sudan, the F-15 is quite enough. What the US and NATO are doing now. BUT F-15 is four times cheaper! I understand the Americans, loot rises in price.
    1. Herman 4223
      Herman 4223 3 June 2021 15: 25
      +1
      F-15 will not be more expensive. The article contains 12 planes for $ 1,4 billion. In general, they are purchased by the National Guard, whose main task is to provide US air defense. The F-35 did not surrender to them like a horse. The Air Force is waiting for a new bastard and a new modified version of the F-35. If their planes will bomb someone else, they cannot do without it.
  22. Ivanushka Ivanov
    Ivanushka Ivanov 3 June 2021 12: 58
    +1
    Bad news. A fat deuce to our "military" experts, who, instead of being "afraid" of this crap in every way and painting terrible pictures of chaos and horror, stupidly doused this miracle of technology with excrement.
  23. faterdom
    faterdom 3 June 2021 13: 00
    +1
    And let the suckers buy.
    Poland wanted out, Ukraine mriyala, samurai, they drowned, however, one. Turkey was refused. Israel was given. Norgi there are all sorts of other Italians - commodity-money, please!
    But they didn't want to buy for themselves.
    Now the question is: who are the Jews really? In the USA or Israel? Real, without impurities?
  24. cniza
    cniza 3 June 2021 13: 13
    +2
    But it has already caused surprise in the Western expert community: the "advanced" F-35, widely advertised in foreign markets, suddenly ceased to be in demand in the American Air Force itself.



    This is a clever publicity stunt ... lol
  25. Alexander Terentyev
    Alexander Terentyev 3 June 2021 13: 23
    +1
    The F-35 is a soap box filled with smartphones. Limited fuel reserves, poor maneuverability, and imaginary "invisibility" make it an expensive, comfortable toy for American pilots. In peacetime, it can be used to carry out well the entire military service to the officers of the American Air Force. This is exactly what the successful career pilots from the USA do. But if a war breaks out with a modern enemy, then all the pilots from these planes will be dumped into the hospital - everyone will have an illness on duty (medical diagnostics of the West is very modern).
  26. pexotinec
    pexotinec 3 June 2021 14: 12
    +3
    Played enough with an expensive toy
  27. Herman 4223
    Herman 4223 3 June 2021 15: 15
    +3
    We decided to just eliminate the jambs and get a normal modified car. Quite a logical decision. The conveyor still works.
    1. Alexander Terentyev
      Alexander Terentyev 3 June 2021 22: 34
      +3
      These are not shoals, but a misconception. The aircraft does not need to be modified - it will go as a training aircraft to military schools. And for real air battles, the Americans need to pay attention to the Russian MiG-35, Su-35, Su-57. They contain the concept of modern, successful air combat at all distances: close, medium, and long. Any air battle is a gradual approach of opponents in the air, i.e. the transition ultimately to close, highly maneuverable combat. And Russia has no equal in this.
  28. militarist63
    militarist63 4 June 2021 01: 43
    +2
    Opanki! belay What a surprise! Maybe in Davis Monten (in the aircraft graveyard) it's time to cook a place ... next to the Goblins (F-117) ... wink
  29. ramzay21
    ramzay21 4 June 2021 04: 01
    -1
    The article is complete nonsense. Why would the Americans still order the F35, if they have already tempered 2500 of these aircraft, and together with foreign customers, 3500 have been ordered, of which only 700 have been made.
    1. Pandiurin
      Pandiurin 4 June 2021 11: 36
      +1
      Quote: ramzay21
      The article is complete nonsense. Why would the Americans still order the F35, if they have already tempered 2500 of these aircraft, and together with foreign customers, 3500 have been ordered, of which only 700 have been made.

      So the order is executed in parts, each new batch after confirmation of the guaranteed payment for this part of the order. Since the budget has not been prescribed for this year, it means that this year f35 for the United States will not be released. And since such a tendency has gone, it may not be ordered in the coming years. It is quite possible that even if there are such plans, it is not profitable to voice them, other countries pay for orders. Although there is also a tendency that not only the United States "slowed down" with the order f35. There are countries that have completely abandoned the purchase of this wunderwafe. Maybe they know something.
      1. ramzay21
        ramzay21 5 June 2021 03: 20
        -1
        There is an order, it is paid for, but within the amount specified in the contract. Nobody is going to cancel it, it is the most outstanding fighter of our time and very cheap for the fifth generation.
        You read the American press, not the translations of our liars. This plane is admired by all the pilots who have flown it, everyone is delighted. Pilots on these machines easily win training battles against F16 and even F15.
  30. DMi
    DMi 4 June 2021 04: 10
    +2
    Nothing will convince amero-fans. Oooh this is F35 !! Boom in the legs))
    It is already quite clear that this is an unusable plane that can only be pushed through the knee and lobbyists. And forcibly impose on allies.
    The bathroom is there after some time, and an anti-corruption investigation is being organized. Against Lockheed Martin.
  31. Alexander Dubinin
    Alexander Dubinin 4 June 2021 04: 43
    0
    Well, not all the same!
  32. zwlad
    zwlad 4 June 2021 09: 01
    +1
    The "advanced" F-35, widely advertised in foreign markets, suddenly ceased to be in demand in the American Air Force itself.

    A bell for partners that the purchase of the F-35 is a "scam" for the grandmother.
  33. Shahno
    Shahno 4 June 2021 15: 00
    0
    Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
    Did you know that the full ammunition load of a flight (4 pieces) of Su-27 \ 30 \ 35 fighters is equal to the ammunition load of the S-300 \ 350 \ 400 air defense missile system battalion?


    Where did you get this from and how did you compare it?

    For example, the S-400 division near the border of any country closes the airspace over this country 400/24 by 7 km in depth, but how will 4 fighters do this?

    How long can you keep fighters in the air to control the airspace? How much money does it take for an hour of duty of an air defense missile system battalion anyway cheaper than an hour of duty in the air of 4 fighters.

    To what depth can a fighter control this very airspace?

    What is easier to disguise the S-400 battalion on the ground using, among other things, false positions or 4 fighters in the air?

    Who is longer and more expensive to train a pilot or a crew of an air defense missile system?

    In my opinion, ground-based air defense systems are much more resilient as the basis of the country's air defense than fighters alone. Even if they "play" on the defensive.

    And your theory does not fight with the practice of the same war in Vietnam. Where air defense and fighters were of the same generation. The victory was for ground-based air defense systems.

    In the same Yugoslavia, fighters could not oppose anything to the NATO armada, and the old air defense systems shot down several aircraft, UAVs and cruise missiles.

    Take other local conflicts, Russia in the same Georgia lost 10 aircraft. If Georgia had more and denser air defense, it would not have been sacred for us to fly in the air there at all.

    The Donbass militia shot down 30 planes and helicopters of the Armed Forces of Ukraine from MANPADS, and if they really had an S-400 with a Russian crew, not a single plane would take off from the airfield of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

    And the war between Armenia and Azerbaijan, where there were enough air defense systems, nullified the use of fighters, moreover, by both sides.

    In Syria, Assad's army has several modern air defense systems and this keeps Turkey and Israel from violating the airspace of this country.

    The USA relies on fighters not because they are the best air defense system, but because they always attack others !!! They are always the attacking side, and therefore they do not just fighters, but fighter-bombers.

    And Russia does not abandon fighters at all, we are now supplying the troops with MiG-31/36, Su-30/34/35/57, and all these are fighters.

    And in addition to air defense systems and fighters, we are building missiles that, if enemy aircraft are concentrated near our borders, will instantly target all airfields, depots with fuel and lubricants and ammunition for them. And as soon as this armada takes off, they will have nowhere to land, if someone survives.

    The main task of our army and navy is to ensure the security of the country, and not to compete numerically in fighters with the United States.

    // In Syria, Assad's army has several modern air defense systems and this keeps Turkey and Israel from violating the airspace of this country. //
    Not a good example. Most likely the political factor is holding back there ... There are a lot of examples of this.
    Ps. You probably remember the moments of political tension. I can remind you - Armor against drones, confusion with the Russian side during the attack ...
  34. Synoid
    Synoid 5 June 2021 04: 15
    0
    Quote: donavi49
    And what will an expensive plant do all this time, the maintenance of which costs a lot of money?


    Stamp planes. They have a queue until the age of 28 under already signed contracts.

    Do not forget the unsuccessful penguin, which does not fly, does not shoot, does not carry weapons, has an onboard suffocation system for the pilot, such a failure that it is only under 700 machines have already been done. One unparalleled Su-57, which is in the army, will have to make at least 7 sorties to bury them all.

    The rate at which the Penguins are released should be increase by the year 22 - up to 180 cars per year, satisfying both state and export. For example, in 2018 they passed 91, 2019 - 134, 2020 - 148. Compare this with Shoigu's wishes to get 2 Su-57 in 21.

    Poland, Ukraine waving a cap


    Already about 20 countries with contracts, and all sorts of sheikhs and others are trying to beg for a contractor even for an overpricing (the Saudis are ready even today to transfer money to 42 cars, the UAE to 56).




    Well, vassals and just sixes and the imperfection will go. And they themselves apparently decided to wait until critical problems are resolved. And there you see a new plane will be filmed and the story with F22 will repeat itself.