Military Review

Tank diesel 5TDF: the birth of complexity

56

The T-64 is a vehicle that had to be refined right away. Largely because of the 5TDF diesel engine. Source: ru.wikipedia.org


Charomsky and his diesels


As mentioned in the previous part stories about the unique 5TDF diesel engine, the roots of the power plant go back to aviation motor building. And first of all they are associated with Alexei Dmitrievich Charomsky.

Charomsky began to deal with the diesel theme back in 1931, when at the Central Institute of Aviation Motors named after V.I. PI Baranov (TsIAM) created a group of diesel engine builders or, as they were officially called, "the department of oil engines." By the way, Vladimir Yakovlevich Klimov became the head of the second "department of gasoline engines", after whom the world famous engine building company will be named.

A sign of the 30s was the rush pace of development of everything and everyone - the country's leadership demanded the solution of the most difficult technical problems and putting it into production within a couple of years. Charomsky's group was supposed to develop a whole line of diesel engines of various classes, but in the end, only one came out. It was a 12-cylinder "oil" AN-1 with a capacity of 913 liters. with., which was supposed to be mounted on bombers. By the way, Charomsky's engine turned out to be quite modern.

Tank diesel 5TDF: the birth of complexity
Alexey Dmitrievich Charomsky. Source: ru.wikipedia.org

When compared with the captured Jumo 205 from the Junkers Ju 86 bomber, the AN-1 showed itself on the good side - it was more powerful, more reliable and worked more stable. The history of the AN-1 was long and inglorious.

But the German diesel deserves a separate mention. It was a 6-cylinder, 12-piston, vertical-cylinder diesel engine. The 600-horsepower unit came to the Soviet Union during the war in Spain and aroused genuine interest among engineers. After a two-year study, it was decided not to adopt the exotic scheme and continue to work on V-shaped motors. The official version is that the German diesel is too unreliable, although it has high specific characteristics. In fact, the captured motor was too complicated for production at the factories of the USSR at that time, and full compliance with the technological cycle was impossible.

The attentive reader will surely see in the scheme of the two-stroke turbo-piston Jumo 205 a prototype of the future post-war tank diesel 5TD and will be absolutely right. German ideas will find their embodiment at a completely different level in the USSR in the early 60s. It was then that the high specific characteristics of the diesel engine came to the fore. Only not with the aviators, but with the tankers.


Jumo 205 is the ideological inspirer of Alexei Dmitrievich Charomsky. Source: ru.wikipedia.org

But let's return to 1938, in which Charomsky was sent to the NKVD sharashka at plant number 10 for 82 years for a delay in the development of aircraft diesel in the same year. Here he developed two diesel engines - a 24-cylinder M-20 and a 12-cylinder M-30. The latter went into series and even managed to take part in the bombing of Berlin on August 11, 1941. One of the TB-7s was equipped with 1500-horsepower Charomsky engines.

The experience of Charomsky's group, accumulated during the development of the AN-1, came in handy in the development of the world's first tank diesel engine V-2. The leading employees of the "department of oil engines" of CIAM were sent to Kharkov to department 400 of the plant No. 182 to help local engineers.

Some commentators talk about the aviation past of the B-2 tank with some disdain, they say, they could not tank engineers cope on their own. There are several aspects here.

Firstly, in Kharkov, the experience of diesel engineering consisted exclusively in the construction of low-speed marine engines.

Secondly, only the aviators at that time had at least some skills in creating high-speed diesel engines. And high-speed diesel engines for land vehicles have completely different requirements for design, materials, and mass-dimensional parameters. Therefore, it is quite logical that the AN-2 aircraft diesel engine solutions were taken as the basis for the B-1 design. Simply because nothing else was at hand, and the war was already so close.

But let's return to the fate of Alexei Dmitrievich, who was released from prison in 1942, and until the beginning of the 50s he was exclusively engaged in aircraft diesel engines. But the era of piston technology in aircraft construction was leaving, and Charomsky was not predisposed to the development of jet engines.

More powerful and more powerful


Kharkov 5TDF was born from the U-305 single-cylinder compartment. This compartment was a kind of module of a large 10000-horsepower M-305 diesel engine, which Charomsky tried to attach to aviation in the early 50s.

Alexey Dmitrievich took as a basis the German Jumo 205 engine, half-forgotten by that time. It was not possible to create a serial engine, but Charomsky defended his doctoral dissertation on this project.

Whom should they contact with an exotic idea that was unnecessary for aviators?

For shipbuilding, the engine was too fast and low-resource. Remained - tankers, who were just thinking about the technology of the new generation.

The chief designer of the Kharkov plant, Alexander Alexandrovich Morozov, took the idea very well and immediately appointed Charomsky as the chief for tank engines in Kharkov. And here again peculiar circumstances intervene.

In Kharkov, in the early 50s, practically no one was left in the engine design bureau from the pre-war composition. Most of the evacuated engineers settled in the Urals and gradually brought to mind the proven design of the B-2 there. Only a few have returned home to plant No. 75 from the Chelyabinsk Tractor Plant. To take the palm from the legendary "Tankograd" and Nizhny Tagil, the Kharkovites needed a revolution. And in the motor-building business, Charomsky became the main revolutionary, in the shortest possible time he gathered a strong design bureau around him.

The first prototype was a four-cylinder 4TPD assembled from four U-305 modules. The diesel turned out to be rather weak - only 400 liters. with., and it was decided to add another cylinder. This is how the 5TD "suitcase" appeared already with 580 liters. from.

In January 1957, the motor passed state tests. But the promising T-64 was definitely not enough, and the chief designer Morozov put forward demands to increase the power by another 120 hp. from. Charomsky, if you follow the official version, just at that moment leaves the post of chief designer of motors at Kharkov plant No. 75 for health reasons.

However, his health condition allowed Aleksey Dmitrievich to work for 15 years later as head of a department and deputy chief designer of the Institute of Engines of the USSR Academy of Sciences. Therefore, it is quite logical to assume that the real reason was either the conflict with Morozov, or the inability to bring the 5TD design to the required recoil parameters.

However, there is a third assumption - Charomsky understood from the very beginning that in a five-cylinder version it is extremely risky to squeeze 700 hp out of such an engine. from. Serious forcing, which was resorted to in the future in the 5TDF version, negatively affected the resource and reliability of the tank diesel engine.


Diagram showing the dynamics of 5TDF improvement. Source: btvt.info

After the departure of Charomsky, Leonid Leonidovich Golinets was appointed the new chief designer of the diesel engine.

By March 1963, the 5TDF variant of the required power of 700 liters. from. successfully coped with 200-hour tests at the factory, and a year later with 300-hour tests. But these were only tests at the factory. The military acceptance, always famous for its rigor in the Soviet Union, brought 5TDF out of the “comfort zone”. As a result, in 1964, joint tests with the military, the two presented motors failed, having withstood 22 and 82,5 hours of continuous operation. There were years of improvements ahead, some of which were already in military operation after being put into service.

Oil instead of diesel


The history of the "oil engines" that Charomsky had been developing since the 30s would have been incomplete without experiments in replacing diesel fuel for tanks with oil. According to Russian engineers, the potential ability to "digest" oil would be very useful in a war. The rear units did not have time to bring diesel fuel - and the advancing tankers refueled their vehicles from the nearest oil pipeline. Fortunately, the Soviet Union had already built the Druzhba pipeline to Europe by the 80s.

The experimenters did not dare to pour oil into the T-64 with its capricious 5TDF, but took the proven T-55. Apparently, they realized that the engine after the experiments would go for decommissioning, and it would be better to get off with a little blood.

On oil, the specific thrust of the V-2 diesel engine decreased by 20-30%, the average speed fell by 12%, the track fuel consumption increased by almost a third, and the cruising range fell by 22%. The oil naturally rapidly coked and tarred the injectors, did not burn completely in the cylinders and flew out into the exhaust tract, where it burned out. In such cases, the T-55 glowed with one and a half meter tongues of flame from the exhaust pipes.

Amazingly, the cylinder-piston group did not suffer much and was only slightly covered with carbon deposits. The engine oil felt much worse - after 20 hours of operation, it thickened so much that it threatened to stop its supply to the rubbing surfaces of the diesel engine. As a result, the coarse oil filter was clogged with all the ensuing consequences.

But in the conclusions of the experiment, the authors still gave recommendations on the possibility of refueling the tank in extreme conditions with oil from the nearest pipeline. At the same time, the tank was enough for only 1,5-2 hours of hard work.

Only now, the structurally refined 5TDF had nothing to do with these curious (or barbaric) tests.

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  1. mark1
    mark1 5 June 2021 05: 22
    +11
    and Charomsky was not inclined to develop jet engines.

    Still as it was not - in the 30s he gave a negative conclusion on the prospects of the gas turbine installations of Uvarov V.V. On the other hand, he perceived turbocharging very favorably and actively applied it (though already in the 5s, and there was no place to go).
    But the diesel, of course, is his life.
    1. Mountain shooter
      Mountain shooter 5 June 2021 06: 39
      +10
      Quote: mark1
      Still as it was not - in the 30s he gave a negative conclusion on the prospects of the gas turbine installations of Uvarov V.V., which slowed down the development of the domestic gas turbine

      "Dobryachkov" then were not found in the caste of designers. They pulled out their piece of bread with blood from the country, not rich in resources. Sometimes, they were not shy about denunciations ... The negative conclusion - "soft form" ... laughing
  2. andrewkor
    andrewkor 5 June 2021 06: 08
    +6
    It is very interesting, in the future, to receive from a respected Author a comparative analysis of the "suitcase" with the closest analogue of the Leyland engine on British tanks. And yet, how did the T-80UD show themselves, that Ukraine delivered to Pakistan? After all, several hundred were delivered with "suitcases". Thank you.
    1. Eug
      Eug 5 June 2021 06: 50
      0
      There is a report that the Malyshevv plant will be engaged in the modernization of Pakistani T-80UD. Contract through Ukrspetsexport for USD 86.5 million.
  3. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 5 June 2021 06: 57
    +3
    And once again I would like to thank the author for the fascinating article. We look forward to continuing!
  4. pyagomail.ru
    pyagomail.ru 5 June 2021 07: 39
    +1
    Maybe a little off topic. During the war, my father served as a mechanic (minder) at the airfield. He said that new engines were installed on fighters (apparently, Yak). After the resource was exhausted, they were sent for repairs and then installed on bombers (Pe-2?). And after the resource was exhausted, the bombers were sent to the factory, the cylinder heads were changed, a number of alterations were made - and a diesel engine for T-34 tanks was obtained. Is it so?
    1. mark1
      mark1 5 June 2021 07: 47
      +4
      It's funny. But all sorts of stories have some reason. It would be interesting to know what these grounds are ...
      1. Normal
        Normal 5 June 2021 08: 39
        +5
        Quote: mark1
        It would be interesting to know what these grounds are ...


        Possibly dreamy:

        - Misha!
        - BUT?
        - I heard that special armor was invented. Alloy. Steel with rubber.
        - Heh ...
        - They say the projectile bounces like a ball off the wall.
        - Yes ...
        - They're not lying, are they?
        - They lie, take your ear ...
        - Hehe ... And zha-alcohol ...

        from K / F "In war as in war"
    2. Normal
      Normal 5 June 2021 07: 54
      +1
      Quote: pyagomail.ru
      Is this true?

      Very, very doubtful. It is necessary to look at the technical parameters.
    3. Normal
      Normal 5 June 2021 08: 13
      +2

      So.

      Aviation gasoline engine M-105 - VK-105 PF
      Displacement (L): 35,0
      Cylinder diameter 148 mm
      Piston stroke 170 mm
      Compression Ratio: 7,10

      Tank diesel B-2
      Working volume, l: 38, 88
      Cylinder diameter 150 m
      Piston stroke 180 (left) / 186,7 (right) mm
      Compression ratio 14 and 15

      Although .... Purely hypothetically ...
      Block boring, replacement of heads, crankshaft and piston group ...

      But how will a bored block handle the doubled compression ratio and "shock" diesel loads?


      No, I think the game is not worth the candle.
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 5 June 2021 09: 44
        +4
        Do you want to put B-2 on the Yak?
        1. venik
          venik 5 June 2021 11: 04
          +6
          Quote: Zaurbek
          Do you want to put B-2 on the Yak?

          ======
          To put then you can! Take off at the same time - it is impossible! drinks
          1. Bad_gr
            Bad_gr 5 June 2021 12: 45
            +11
            On the T-34 in late 1941 - early 1942. war, when there was a shortage of V-2 engines, they installed the M-17 aviation gasoline engine (tank version of the M-17T)

            According to various estimates, tanks with these engines were produced (STZ and Krasnoe Sormovo) - 1300-1500 units.
            There is also such information (with some differences from the previous one):
            "The lack of diesel engines was compensated by the installation of M-34F carburetor engines in T-17 tanks, which underwent three to four major overhauls. 12-cylinder, 4-stroke, V-shaped, M-17F carburetor engines were previously installed on light BT tanks. -7 and even more consisted of supplying the Red Army. As a backup option for a possible replacement of the V-2 diesel engine, the issue of installing the M-17F engine in the T-34 tank began to be worked out back in June 1940 in the "500" workshop of the plant number 183. Work on this topic was forced after receiving the order of the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR dated September 16, 1941 "On the installation of the M-17 engine in the T-34 tank." The modification of the installation of the M-17 engine in the T-34 tank was completed in an extremely short time. No. 5 and the designers, the documentation was transferred to STZ and Plant No. 183. The final decision on the installation of the M-112 carburetor engine in the tank was made at the GKO meeting held on October 17, 4.
            The largest number of T-34 tanks equipped with M-17 engines was produced by the Gorky plant number 112. In 1941, 156 T-34 tanks with carburetor engines were manufactured on it. Until May 1942, 112 more combat vehicles with such an engine were accepted by military representatives at factory number 540. At STZ in 1941 17 T-197 tanks were equipped with M-34T engines (October 15, November 85, December 97). Another 12 combat vehicles manufactured in December 1941 had M-17F engines.
            In January 1942, STZ produced 134 tanks with aircraft engines, in February - 135, in March - 95. "
            http://forum.worldof...й-танк-т-34-76/
        2. Normal
          Normal 5 June 2021 17: 26
          +2
          Quote: Zaurbek
          Do you want to put B-2 on the Yak?


          I?
          Quote: pyagomail.ru
          And after the resource was exhausted, the bombers were sent to the factory, the cylinder heads were changed, a number of alterations were made - and a diesel engine for T-34 tanks was obtained. Is it so?

          I am only
          Quote: Normal
          Purely hypothetically ...

          I was thinking about converting the carburetor M-105 V into a diesel V-2, and not the other way around. And of course it was not even in my mind to put the B-2 on the Yak. Even hypothetically.
      2. mark1
        mark1 5 June 2021 15: 06
        +2
        Quote: Normal
        Although .... Purely hypothetically ...
        Block boring, replacement of heads, crankshaft and piston group ...

        Well, that's the reason - the proximity of the sizes gave birth to the bike.
        1. Normal
          Normal 5 June 2021 17: 30
          +2
          Quote: mark1
          Well, that's the reason - the proximity of the sizes gave birth to the bike.

          I believe that there was one more "base". The cylinder block of the V-2 engine is aluminum.
      3. dgonni
        dgonni 6 June 2021 05: 54
        0
        Klimov's series is a French Spanish suise! And they, without diesel loads, had over problems due to the re-lightweight design of both the block and other elements, such as the crankshaft, oil pump, etc.
    4. venik
      venik 5 June 2021 09: 25
      +7
      Quote: pyagomail.ru
      Is this true?

      =======
      Not certainly in that way! During the war, my dad served as a navigator on "pawns". Engines (M-105, similar to those installed on the Yak-9) came mainly directly from the factory. It happened that they came across not tested, with factory defects, including. and not working at all (what can you do? War!). BU-shnye came across rarely! And from what machines they were removed (from "yaks" or "pawns") - request Nobody really understood!
      By the way, they (repaired) were trusted more! hi
    5. venik
      venik 5 June 2021 11: 08
      -6
      Quote: pyagomail.ru
      And after the resource was exhausted, the bombers were sent to the factory, the cylinder heads were changed, a number of alterations were made - and a diesel engine for T-34 tanks was obtained. Is it so?

      =======
      Sorry Pavel! But is that a joke ??? Or fool There were DIESELS on the T-34! And the M-195 is a gasoline carburetor engine! And he had nothing (ANYTHING!) To do with tank engines!
      Gasoline carburetor engines M-17 were only on the early versions of BT tanks and they had nothing to do with aviation!
      1. pyagomail.ru
        pyagomail.ru 5 June 2021 14: 17
        +1
        [quote = venik] On the T-34 there were DIESELS! [/ Quote]
        I know it. But, if you change the cylinder head on a gasoline engine - put it with a smaller combustion chamber, remove the ignition system, put in a high-pressure fuel pump, instead of candles - nozzles - then you get a diesel engine, because the rest of the mechanisms and engine systems for carburetor and diesel engines are the same. By the way, two features surprised me in tank diesel engines - the drive of the camshafts using bevel gears and vertical rollers and the design of the pistons: main and outboard, hinged to the main - is this not from aircraft engines?
        1. venik
          venik 5 June 2021 15: 33
          +3
          Quote: pyagomail.ru
          But, if you change it on a gasoline engine ...

          ========
          The fact of the matter is that they ate on the cruiser to change the hull, engines and ... "then the cruiser can become a submarine!
          ------------
          Quote: pyagomail.ru
          piston installation design: main and suspended, pivotally attached to the main - is it not coming from aircraft engines?

          ========
          Lord, maybe from them! Ultimately, shipborne GTUs also began with aviation turbojet engines ...
          drinks
        2. VladGTN
          VladGTN 5 June 2021 20: 18
          +2
          The VAZ-341 engine (a diesel engine converted from a gasoline VAZ-2103) turned out to be extremely unsuccessful.
        3. Vikxnumx
          Vikxnumx 8 June 2021 12: 03
          0
          I know it. But, if you change the cylinder head on a gasoline engine - put it with a smaller combustion chamber, remove the ignition system, put in a high-pressure fuel pump, instead of candles - nozzles - then you get a diesel engine, because the rest of the mechanisms and engine systems for carburetor and diesel engines are the same.

          Volkswagen made a 1,5 diesel from a carburetor 1,6 ...
      2. Normal
        Normal 5 June 2021 18: 11
        +4
        Quote: venik
        M-17s were installed only on early versions of BT tanks and they had nothing to do with aviation!

        Namesake, however, you are somewhat emotional. M-17s had much in common with aviation, since they were aviation. And on the BT there was an M-17T about which a colleague and our namesake Bad_gr (Vladimir) wrote above
        today at 12:45 pm.
      3. dgonni
        dgonni 6 June 2021 05: 48
        -1
        The M-17 was also an aircraft engine! The tanks were equipped with a deformed version. And yet, for the most part, these were otletavschin engines after the capital!
    6. Alf
      Alf 5 June 2021 18: 27
      +1
      Quote: pyagomail.ru
      Is this true?

      Nonsense. Frank. This is not about your father, but about this information.
      The YAK, like the PE-2, flew on the M-105, theoretically such a replacement is possible, although it is unlikely that they really came to that. But make a diesel engine out of a gasoline engine ...
      1. pyagomail.ru
        pyagomail.ru 5 June 2021 19: 35
        +1
        Quote: Alf
        But make a diesel engine out of a gasoline engine ...

        Actually, they did. At one time (30 years ago) in the magazine "Za Rulem" I read that Western automobile companies made diesel engines based on carburetor engines - other cylinder heads and what I wrote earlier.
        1. Alf
          Alf 5 June 2021 19: 36
          0
          Quote: pyagomail.ru
          Quote: Alf
          But make a diesel engine out of a gasoline engine ...

          Actually, they did. At one time (30 years ago) in the magazine "Za Rulem" I read that Western automobile companies made diesel engines based on carburetor engines - other cylinder heads and what I wrote earlier.

          You can also make a Spitfire from Messerschmitt, that's just a matter of price and cost.
          1. pyagomail.ru
            pyagomail.ru 5 June 2021 19: 42
            +2
            Quote: Alf
            that's just a matter of price and cost ..

            Do not understand. They take as a basis from the carburetor block, KShM, timing, lubrication, cooling, start-up systems, make a new head, a new power system - this was, for example, "Peugeot-Identor" - this is the engine's name. It is cheaper than developing a diesel engine from scratch.
            1. Alf
              Alf 5 June 2021 19: 46
              0
              Quote: pyagomail.ru
              Do not understand.

              Let me explain. Alteration from the creation of a new one differs in a minimum of costs, both monetary and temporary production. You are talking about an option when the rework is comparable to the cost of releasing a new product.
              1. pyagomail.ru
                pyagomail.ru 5 June 2021 19: 48
                +1
                Quote: Alf
                I explain.

                I agree. Let's call it the manufacture of diesel engines based on carburetor units and assemblies.
                1. Alf
                  Alf 5 June 2021 19: 52
                  +2
                  Quote: pyagomail.ru
                  - does it come from aircraft engines?

                  And you read the history of the creation of B-2, you will learn a lot of interesting ...
                  It is aluminum because the BD-1 was originally ordered as an aircraft engine and a tank one.
                  1. Normal
                    Normal 5 June 2021 20: 08
                    0
                    Quote: Alf
                    And you read the history of the creation of B-2,

                    I read it with great pleasure. Give links.
                    1. Alf
                      Alf 5 June 2021 20: 12
                      0
                      Quote: Normal
                      Quote: Alf
                      And you read the history of the creation of B-2,

                      I read it with great pleasure. Give links.

                      I won't give it, I'm greedy! laughing
                      Damn, this story is not told on the net, perhaps only on porn sites. Although, the devil only knows, maybe there is. request
                      1. Normal
                        Normal 5 June 2021 20: 57
                        0
                        Quote: Alf
                        I won't give it, I'm greedy!

                        Greedy - beef, turkish drum ......

                        Quote: Alf
                        And you read the history of the creation of B-2, you will learn a lot of interesting ...

                        I am not proud, I myself and with the help of my colleagues will find everything I need. Perhaps even more than you know. Fortunately, there is already a tip.
                        Well, and alas for you.
                        Another disappointment and slight regret. "Again, not that."
                      2. Alf
                        Alf 5 June 2021 21: 14
                        0
                        Quote: Normal
                        I myself and with the help of my colleagues will find everything I need.

                        And then what do you ask?
                        Quote: Normal
                        Well, and alas for you.

                        I'm going to do seppuku ..
                        Quote: Normal
                        Perhaps even more than you know.

                        I will only be glad for you. As the classic said, Study, study and study.
                      3. Normal
                        Normal 5 June 2021 21: 44
                        0
                        I asked because you pretended to be informed and what you are, but after that
                        Quote: Alf
                        I'm going to do seppuku ..

                        there is apparently no point in communicating.
                        Don't play a samurai. No need for pseudo heroic beauties.
                        Make it easier in our way, in Brazilian, on the virtual Internet - "kill yourself against the wall"
                        Quote: Alf
                        I will only be glad for you.

                        You do not need to be happy for me (I am no one to you and have no relation to your qualities and shortcomings), but to be sad for yourself.
                        Be.
                      4. Alf
                        Alf 5 June 2021 21: 46
                        0
                        Quote: Normal
                        I am nobody to you

                        What happiness!
                      5. Normal
                        Normal 5 June 2021 21: 56
                        0
                        Happiness that I am nobody to you.
                        I agree.
                        But Unhappiness is you yourself.
                        Farewell.
  • dgonni
    dgonni 6 June 2021 05: 55
    -1
    Not! A bike!
  • Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 5 June 2021 09: 42
    0
    How do ship engines work on fuel oil?
    1. venik
      venik 5 June 2021 11: 02
      +2
      Quote: Zaurbek
      How do ship engines work on fuel oil?

      ========
      Do you mean ship turbines? well in steam turbines, it is used "for boiling water" in boilers, for gas turbines - also good ... And even for low-speed diesels .....
      But for the high-speed engines - alas! request
    2. Normal
      Normal 5 June 2021 18: 38
      +1
      Quote: Zaurbek
      How do ship engines work on fuel oil?

      Not special, but I think that the matter is in the low revs and large working volume of the cylinders of marine diesel engines.
      If I'm not mistaken, the first diesel engine was generally intended for the mechanization of mine equipment, and coal dust was assumed as fuel.
  • Egorov Oleg
    Egorov Oleg 5 June 2021 10: 17
    +9
    What makes you think that the Jumo 205 engine is a trophy, the Design Bureau of Junkers-Motoren-Werke, worked in the USSR since 1920 and developed aviation diesel engines, Soviet specialists (the same Charomsky) worked and studied in this bureau, the result of the work of the bureau was production of two samples, V-shaped 12-cylinder (future V-2) and Jumo 205, in 1933, with Hitler's coming to power, the work of the bureau was curtailed, but several samples and documentation of both engines were left to the Soviet Union, and the Germans were V-shaped diesels they were not installed on the aircraft (high specific gravity, low power, low resource), but the Jumo 205 was installed on the Ju-86C in a small batch of the transport version, but then the Germans completely abandoned diesel engines (low specific power, low resource).
    1. Free wind
      Free wind 5 June 2021 12: 12
      +4
      The Ju-86 reconnaissance aircraft, on a diesel engine, flew until the age of 44, an altitude of 12-14 kilometers with a lie, was unattainable for fighters of that time. I came across high-altitude photos of Moscow, 44 years old, from these planes in the internet. Jumo-207 is considered the best aircraft diesel of those years.
      1. Egorov Oleg
        Egorov Oleg 5 June 2021 12: 36
        +2
        Actually, I was talking about the engine that remained with us, and the Jumo 86B-207 diesel engine was installed on the Ju-3R aircraft, which began to be produced in 1942.
        1. Zug
          Zug 6 June 2021 08: 22
          0
          There is a photo of the Baltic states made with a Ju-86 with Yumo 205 engines, ours chased it for 3 minutes, 2 fell out at an altitude of under 10 thousand, the pilots crashed. The third one also fell out but resisted.
    2. Normal
      Normal 5 June 2021 19: 08
      +1
      Quote: Oleg Egorov
      Design Bureau of Junkers-Motoren-Werke, worked in the USSR since 1920


      Not only a design office.

      In 1923, the former Russo-Balt plant located on the Filyovskaya floodplain was transferred to the concession of the German aircraft manufacturer Junkers for 30 years for the construction of all-metal aircraft and engines for them.

      (Wiki)

      Quote: Oleg Egorov
      and led the development of aviation diesel engines, ....................., the result of the work of the bureau was the manufacture of two samples, a V-shaped 12-cylinder (future V-2) ... ..


      That's for sure?!
      For half my life I have been interested in where the B-2 is from.
      If it does not make it difficult, give detailed information. I'll be very thankful.
      1. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 5 June 2021 22: 33
        +2
        Quote: Normal
        where there is-went B-2.

        http://alexfiles99.narod.ru/library/0001/way_to_v2.html
        http://alexfiles99.narod.ru/library/0001/v2_way_in_series.html

        Taken from here
        http://alexfiles99.narod.ru/
        1. Normal
          Normal 5 June 2021 22: 35
          +1
          Thank you. I hope for something new for myself
        2. The comment was deleted.
  • Free wind
    Free wind 5 June 2021 12: 03
    -3
    An extremely illiterate article. do not read. A set of some kind of ignorance.
  • 123456789
    123456789 5 June 2021 14: 30
    0
    Quote: Mountain Shooter
    Quote: mark1
    Still as it was not - in the 30s he gave a negative conclusion on the prospects of the gas turbine installations of Uvarov V.V., which slowed down the development of the domestic gas turbine

    "Dobryachkov" then were not found in the caste of designers. They pulled out their piece of bread with blood from the country, not rich in resources. Sometimes, they were not shy about denunciations ... The negative conclusion - "soft form" ... laughing

  • Pavel57
    Pavel57 5 June 2021 17: 25
    +1
    Charomsky's engines took part in the war on Er-2.

    Produced at the 500m plant. There was an attempt and not unsuccessful to put it on the IS-7 tank.
  • dgonni
    dgonni 6 June 2021 00: 41
    -1
    That smiled!
  • abc_alex
    abc_alex 6 June 2021 01: 55
    0
    Some commentators talk about the aviation past of the B-2 tank with some disdain, they say, tank engineers could not cope on their own. There are several aspects here.


    Hmm ... What does the neglect have to do with it? Kharkov diesel workers really failed. In 1938, their motor did not pass the test. And there were a lot of reasons there, including the battle of vanities of three design organizations at once, which ultimately cost many a career, and some even their lives.

    Firstly, in Kharkov, the experience of diesel engineering consisted exclusively in the construction of low-speed marine engines.


    And nowhere in the USSR was there any experience in the development of tank diesel engines. At all. And no one else.

    Secondly, only the aviators at that time had at least some skills in creating high-speed diesel engines. And high-speed diesel engines for land vehicles have completely different requirements for design, materials, and mass-dimensional parameters. Therefore, it is quite logical that the AN-2 aircraft diesel engine solutions were taken as the basis for the B-1 design. Simply because nothing else was at hand, and the war was already so close.


    And who asked to make a high-speed diesel engine? Nobody asked. This is what the designers decided and did so. And no one took the AN-1 as a basis for the V-2. It's just that after the failure of the Kharkov design bureau in 1938, a whole group of specialists was sent to Kharkov from Moscow, from the Charomsky design bureau to "strengthen". With the requirement to fix it as soon as possible. And in the shortest possible time they actually made the tank AN-1, calling it B-2. It was a serious matter there, the execution was very likely.
  • NF68
    NF68 6 June 2021 16: 13
    0
    The Germans also suffered with their Junkers diesels. For some reason, these engines stubbornly wanted to work normally neither on tanks nor on boats.