Military Review

Artillery of the future: modernization of the ACS 2S19 "Msta-S" and its prospects

61

ACS 2S19 "Msta-S" on firing


The Russian ground forces are armed with several types of self-propelled artillery units with different characteristics and capabilities. To date, the most widespread vehicles of this class are ACS 2S19 "Msta-S" of a number of modifications. They will have to continue serving for a long time, and for this a deep modernization program has been launched and is being successfully implemented.

Modernization processes


"Msta-S" entered service in the late eighties. However, the production of such equipment in small batches has been carried out since the first half of the decade. Later, a full-fledged series was mastered, intended for the rearmament of the Soviet army. After the collapse of the USSR, the existing equipment was divided between the new states, and Russia continued production. According to known data, at least 1100 self-propelled guns of several modifications have been built to date.

The development processes of the basic self-propelled guns started immediately after being put into service. During the nineties, the 2S19M project (aka 2S33) was developed, which provided for the introduction of a number of new devices. Its updated version, 2S19M1 in the second half of the two thousandth, reached the point of adoption. Self-propelled guns of the "M1" version were rebuilt from the existing machines in the order of repair and modernization.


Upgraded self-propelled gun 2S19M1

Then work began on a new modification - 2S19M2 "Msta-SM". Various updates were proposed again, affecting controls, weapons, etc. In 2012, the modernized ACS passed state tests and was recommended for adoption. The following year, the industry began to supply equipment of this model. Msta-SM can be built from scratch or rebuilt from the equipment of previous modifications.

According to The Military Balance 2021, the Russian army currently operates 820 Msta-S self-propelled guns of all major modifications. The authors of this publication counted 500 combat vehicles of old modifications 2S19 and 2S19M1, as well as 320 modern 2S19M2. In addition, 150 self-propelled guns were put into reserve. Thus, in terms of their number, the 2S19 family machines have by now bypassed the older 2S3 "Akatsia" self-propelled guns with a gun of the same caliber. The active fleet of such equipment includes 800 units, although there is a reserve of 1000 units.

Production rate


The release of the updated ACS 2S19M2 was mastered by the Uraltransmash enterprise with the participation of a number of other organizations supplying new components and assemblies. Thus, the production of a modernized 152-mm howitzer is carried out by the Barricades plant. The production line was prepared in 2012, at the same time as passing government tests.


Modern self-propelled guns 2S19M2 "Msta-SM"

As reported by the Ministry of Defense, the first batch of modernized self-propelled guns entered the troops in June 2013, 35 units. such equipment was transferred to one of the artillery units of the Southern Military District. Soon there were reports of the use of updated machines during the exercise.

In the future, production maintained the required pace and ensured regular deliveries of new and modernized equipment to the troops. For example, plans for the past year provided for the delivery of more than 35 self-propelled guns "Msta-SM". As far as we know, they were successfully carried out and ensured the rearmament of one of the units.

On May 31, the state corporation "Rostec" announced the completion of construction and the shipment of the next batch of self-propelled guns 2S19M2. This equipment was manufactured as part of the state defense order for 2019-21. and was built on time. The number of armored vehicles built, as well as the place of their future service, is not specified.

Most likely, the process of production and modernization of equipment will continue in the future. Thanks to such processes, modern ACS "Msta-SM" over the next few years in their number will be able to catch up with the equipment of previous modifications, and then bypass them. Even with the protection of the total number of self-propelled guns at the same level, this will significantly increase the potential of artillery as a whole.


Technical issues


The 2S19M2 project provides for a comprehensive modernization of the basic armored vehicle with the replacement of some of the components, due to which an increase in all main characteristics and a number of new opportunities are provided. New systems and units were introduced without changing the architecture of the machine, as well as with minimal impact on its exterior.

The chassis of the ACS remains the same and retains the original set of nodes and the same characteristics. At the same time, a new diagnostic system has been introduced, which provides the driver with up-to-date data on the condition of the car. This to a certain extent simplifies the operation and maintenance of self-propelled guns.

At the same time, the main modifications of the Msta-SM project affect the equipment of the fighting compartment. The self-propelled gun receives an improved 152-mm 2A64M2 rifled howitzer. Due to a number of innovations, the rate of fire has been increased to 10 rds / min. and improved other parameters.

Modern equipment with a high degree of automation is used. ACS received navigation devices with the ability to use digital maps and receive satellite signals. In the fire control system, some devices have been replaced, and weather sensors and other devices have been introduced. After such an upgrade, the self-propelled gun shows increased accuracy and firing efficiency. Also, there was a "squall of fire" mode, obtained due to the modern MSA and high rate of fire. If necessary, fire control can be carried out remotely from a battery command post.


There are certain ways for the further development of self-propelled guns that can provide a new increase in performance. In the recent past, the management of Uraltransmash talked about the possibility of creating a new generation of ammunition. At the same time, plans were announced for a new improvement in operational characteristics.

Artillery of the near future


ACS 2S19 of all modifications are qualitatively superior to the older "Acacia". By now, a quantitative superiority over all other 152-mm self-propelled systems has also been ensured. At the same time, the production of new equipment and the modernization of existing machines continues, which has obvious positive consequences.

A completely new self-propelled gun 2S35 "Coalition-SV" has already been developed and is being prepared for a full-scale series. However, the production of a large amount of such equipment will take a lot of time, and therefore the Msta-S of various modifications will still retain its place in the army. Over the next few years, it will remain the most massive and effective self-propelled gun of the Russian army. It can be expected that during this period, at least most of the available equipment will be upgraded to Msty-SM.


In the future, after receiving a sufficient number of new "Coalition-SV", the army is unlikely to quickly abandon the older 2S19M1 / 2, although other types of equipment should be expected to be removed from service. The mixed composition of self-propelled artillery will again allow obtaining the maximum possible characteristics and capabilities, as well as providing high flexibility of use for solving a variety of fire missions.

Thus, the processes observed now are of particular importance for the near and distant future of army artillery. The gradual replacement of older 2S19s with modern 2S19M2s does not just ensure the preservation of equipment in service and increase its characteristics. Due to these processes, a large reserve is also created, which will determine the appearance and capabilities of artillery units in the near and distant future.
Author:
Photos used:
Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, "Rostec"
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  1. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 3 June 2021 05: 28
    +5
    This is what Soviet development means, they have been tinkering with electronics and the ACS remains quite at a decent level!
  2. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 3 June 2021 06: 45
    +6
    "Everything is fine, beautiful marquise ... and we are doing well! And only fate, out of a stupid whim, brought us a surprise!" Now the trend is "enlargement" of calibers ... 82 (81) -mm mortars are being pushed out in the "battalion link" by 120-mm mortars ... 105-mm guns in NATO, and in Russia 122-mm howitzers are largely replaced by 155 ( 152) -mm guns. "Msta-S", "Coalition-SV" are good, each in its own way! But the future of these guns is in self-propelled guns, in artillery units of ground motorized troops ... For the Airborne Forces, mountain rifle brigades, mobile units of special forces, lighter guns are needed, preferably in the same caliber ... perhaps towed, as more convenient for transportation by helicopters , and in the future, multi-rotor UAVs ... by various vehicles; incl. civilian use ... A 152-mm howitzer "Pat-B" was supposed to be a candidate for this place ....

    "Pat-B" was even put into service, but the troops, except for the installation battery, did not enter ... A number of shortcomings were also revealed ... troops ...
    1. chenia
      chenia 3 June 2021 08: 32
      +1
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      Now the trend is "enlargement" of calibers ... 82 (81) -mm mortars are displaced in the "battalion link" with 120-mm mortars ...[/ b] TO 105-mm guns, and in Russia to a large extent 122-mm howitzers are replaced by 155 (152) -mm guns. "Msta-S"


      On the contrary, 82 mm were returned, and the displacement took place in the 50s. 105 mm in NATO is the battalion level. further 155mm.
      The appearance of 152 mm in the regimental and divisional link with a single caliber (based on self-propelled guns) should be welcomed. These are systems (should be) of constant readiness troops.

      In [b] mobvariant to leave 122 mm in the regimental and divisional (2 ADN in the AP) as it was before. And the third ADN in AP can be PAT-B.

      For me it is better to insert 122 mm (self-propelled howitzers carnation, host or other modernization.) Into the battalion unit (constant readiness). And 120 mm as a mob option.
    2. Sergey Aleksandrovich
      Sergey Aleksandrovich 3 June 2021 10: 06
      +5
      "Pat-B" weighs 4,3 tons. MI-8 helicopter cannot be lifted, unlike 122 mm D-30, the weight of which is already at the limit of this helicopter's capabilities. So, there is no replacement for the D-30 yet.
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 3 June 2021 10: 53
        +2
        Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
        "Pat-B" weighs 4,3 tons. Can't be lifted by MI-8 helicopter

        So I say that "Pat-B" did not enter the troops either because various shortcomings were revealed! Among the shortcomings is the fact that the gun has too much weight for the "purpose" for which it was "planned" with a rather "modest" firing range ... The speech in the commentary mainly concerned the development of light (" airmobile ") 152-mm howitzers have ceased and are not being conducted ... No attempts have been made to improve ... to" lighten "the Pat-B ... (By the way, if my memory serves me, the development of 152 -mm rifled breech-loading "mortar" ... like the famous 120-mm mortar "Nona-M1" ...)
        1. Sergey Aleksandrovich
          Sergey Aleksandrovich 3 June 2021 11: 04
          0
          From what is published in the open press on the experience of hostilities in Chechnya, it can be concluded that the greatest problems were just observed due to the insufficient firing range of artillery. Neither "Carnation", let alone "Nona", were often unsatisfactory in terms of firing range. So, it is unlikely that they will switch to guns with even worse ballistics where the D-30 is barely enough.
          And the firing range of the mortar is even lower, I doubt the capabilities of the 152 mm breech-loading one. Therefore, they are in no hurry with new technology for highly mobile connections.
          1. Glory1974
            Glory1974 3 June 2021 15: 33
            +2
            From what is published in the open press on the experience of hostilities in Chechnya, it can be concluded that the greatest problems were just observed due to the insufficient firing range of artillery.

            in the absence of a front line, the firing range is not decisive.
            In Chechnya, the main problems are target designation and the accuracy of the defeat. It was forbidden to shoot within a radius of 1000 meters near settlements, because it could fly in at civilians, which is what the militants used.
            1. Sergey Aleksandrovich
              Sergey Aleksandrovich 3 June 2021 16: 03
              -1
              What other distance matters, especially in mountainous terrain and in the absence of passable roads for vehicles. And the most striking example is the lack of artillery support from the 6th company of the Pskov paratroopers, where Nona did not have enough range. And more recently, an article came across where it was mentioned that the range of Carnations was not enough at the place of deployment, and it was dangerous to leave it, but at a critical moment they advanced 3 km and still covered the enemy with fire.
              And for target designation there are artillery gunners, this should be their concern.
              1. Glory1974
                Glory1974 3 June 2021 16: 21
                +4
                What distance is also important, especially in mountainous terrain and in the absence of passable roads for vehicles.

                in the discussions there are about airborne guns. We don't have them. But there are engineering vehicles that can pass and drag the column behind them anywhere. For example, a march of border guards in the winter of 2000 to the Georgian border. And there are mountain peaks, from which artillery can reach any point, for example, a battery in the settlement of Dai.
                the most striking example is the lack of artillery support in the 6th company of the Pskov paratroopers, where Nona did not have enough range

                Yes, according to the official version, "Nona" fired at the limit of range. But they are silent about the fact that 3 more batteries, calmly finishing off to the place of battle, did not receive an order to fire, so the reason is not the firing range.
                the range of Carnations was not enough in the place of deployment, and it was dangerous to leave it,

                This is the quality of the command, which cannot clean up the terrain in the deployment area, but for some reason sends people to fight outside the firing range of regular artillery.
                If the commanders are stupid, they can send them beyond the range of the radio stations.
                And for target designation there are artillery gunners, this should be their concern.

                Our artillery gunner operates according to the technique of the Second World War. Therefore, we cannot hit a target in a populated area and nearby; we can only destroy it together with a populated area.
                1. Sergey Aleksandrovich
                  Sergey Aleksandrovich 3 June 2021 16: 31
                  -1
                  It is not always possible to fight ideally and in ideal conditions, you cannot foresee everything, so why not have weapons with a margin of both range and accuracy.
                  If accuracy in settlements and near them is so important, then it might be worth considering the development of special ammunition for zeroing, so that when a cloud of colored smoke explodes without fragments, like signal mines. And why scold the artillery gunners, they work as they can and how they have taught.
                  1. Glory1974
                    Glory1974 4 June 2021 10: 54
                    -1
                    There are special high-precision shells for hitting point targets, there are lighting devices, navigators, etc. But this is only seen on TV, but not in the troops in the war.
                    Art navodchiks, like aircraft controllers, walk with infantry and special forces, as they operate in battle formations 50 years ago, showing miracles of courage and heroism, like senior lieutenant Prokhorenko, who caused an air strike on himself.
                    And in modern armies, target designation is carried out from drones, remotely. The battlefield is monitored and target designation is given without risking the lives of fighters.
                2. chenia
                  chenia 3 June 2021 17: 21
                  +2
                  Quote: glory1974

                  Our artillery gunner operates according to the technique of the Second World War.

                  You somehow explain that the professional didn’t understand nichrome.
                  Th you need to hit a single target or group, point or area in a settlement. direct (half-line) or PDO?
                  And the artillery gunner will tell him what he does (it is not he who determines the settings).
                  But the shooter, yes. Target designation is given to him either by the combined-arms commander. or a senior artillery chief. or on its own initiative (in our KNP not only artillery reconnaissance officers (as in the United States, Britain)) but also commanders), and under its own responsibility can open fire.

                  What is wrong?
                  1. Glory1974
                    Glory1974 4 June 2021 10: 48
                    -1
                    Th you need to hit a single target or group, point or area in a settlement. direct (half-line) or PDO?

                    No matter what the goal is, the algorithm is the same.
                    And the artillery gunner will tell him what he does (it is not he who determines the settings).

                    The setting for shooting is not determined by the artillery spotter, of course. The spotter determines his location and target location, transmits the coordinates. For this he has a maximum of JI-PI-ES. Then the shooter counts. In practice, I have not met either laser rangefinders or data transmission equipment. and in WWII, in the telephone mode, the transmission of coordinates determined by the map or by the navigator. For the sake of fairness, it must be said that when there is time, the guys were identified by the map with an accuracy of 10 meters (after a GIP check). In mobile combat, there is no such accuracy, therefore, the accuracy of defeat decreases.
                    Either the combined-arms commander gives him target designation. or a senior artillery chief. or on its own initiative (in our KNP not only artillery reconnaissance officers (as in the United States, Britain)) but also commanders), and under its own responsibility can open fire.

                    The dispute arose over the firing range. The opponent thinks that this is the main thing, I think that the main thing is accuracy.
                    The dependence of the accuracy of shooting in our army depends on the accuracy of determining its location of the spotter, the location of the firing battery and the location of the target. You can define more or less with your own, - + 15 meters, but the goals are already more difficult.
                    Accordingly, in a village or in the mountains, a miss of 30 meters is critical. And where is Krasnopol, where is the laser illumination? where is the army of the 21st century?
                    In the case of the 6th company, the "Non" battery did not save, it was able to shoot only in the area. Enemy mortars were not suppressed, the attackers were not destroyed. And the range has nothing to do with it.
                    1. chenia
                      chenia 4 June 2021 18: 06
                      0
                      Quote: glory1974
                      No matter what the goal is

                      Well yes! If the area is, then the kishlak has chosen its own destiny. They shoot from CO batteries or even a battalion. And there is already a scattering of the shit - whoever did not hide, that was unlucky. If single, then it is better to direct (half-straight) if the terrain allows, and then shooting (installations) with a clear undershoot, and jumps to the target. So is the PDO. but here the projectile does not hit the same trench twice (on the same installations) and the dispersion, depending on the range, can be more than 100 m -4 vd, (the probability is small, but it can). Even with the use of corrected KVO projectiles up to 10 m. So (in order not to wake up the neighbors), in this case, a direct or ATGM is better. (fewer side effects. And this is the same as competitors.
                      Quote: glory1974
                      not an art corrector,

                      They have yes. We have at KNP - (firing) battery packs, KVU. or KO intelligence (this one should, but usually not prepared). Or at the OP (if the shooter is too lazy to prepare the initial ones) - a computer, KV-2 or SOB (under the control of the UO group - under the supervision of NSh ADN - sometimes). Conditionally spotters can be called radars, sound reconnaissance units. plane. helicopter.
                3. Samovar-2
                  Samovar-2 16 June 2021 19: 52
                  0
                  Have you studied well the methods of work of the artillery gunner?
                  1. Glory1974
                    Glory1974 17 June 2021 08: 33
                    0
                    OK. with what in practice.
            2. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 4 June 2021 12: 24
              +1
              Quote: glory1974
              in the absence of a front line, the firing range is not decisive.

              Quite the opposite - in the absence of a front line, the firing range is critical. Even airmobility and pre-prepared positions do not help - look at the same Yankees who, following the results of putting things in order in Iraq, were forced to start work on increasing the firing range of the "three axes".
              Artillery in such a war sits on the bases. And the greater the range, the less bases are needed to cover the critical points of the area. And the less chances you are in the situation "you are too far away, there will be no fire support, we will not have time to transfer the howitzers closer."
              1. chenia
                chenia 4 June 2021 18: 56
                0
                Quote: Alexey RA
                Artillery in such a war sits on the bases.

                And the infantry? And it's not destiny to provide (cover) the OP area?
                Infantry is delivered by helicopters, but artillery is not always delivered, more often on the ground. And there are scorpions, snakes and mines. Horror.
                So our poor star-striped "friends" come up with a kind of projectile for 150 km. run.
                1. Alexey RA
                  Alexey RA 4 June 2021 19: 06
                  +1
                  Quote: chenia
                  And the infantry? And it's not destiny to provide (cover) the OP area?

                  Fate. But with a longer firing range, these OPs will need less. And the guns too. And it will not happen that there are not enough weapons to cover all groups of weapons.
                  Quote: chenia
                  Infantry is delivered by helicopters, but artillery is not always delivered, more often on the ground. And there are scorpions, snakes and mines. Horror.

                  "Three axes" were made just from the calculation of maximum mobility - the possibility of delivery by helicopters (army CH-47 and naval CH-53) on an external sling. Otherwise, the Yankees would have used the M198.
        2. cat Rusich
          cat Rusich 3 June 2021 23: 41
          0
          Quote: Nikolaevich I
          , then the development of a 152-mm rifled breech-loading "mortar" was once proposed ... like the famous 120-mm mortar "Nona-M1" ...)
          mortar M-160
          Can be taken from warehouses mortar M-160
          soldier
          1. Nikolaevich I
            Nikolaevich I 4 June 2021 00: 57
            0
            Well, here is the "question" of ammunition unification! recourse
            1. cat Rusich
              cat Rusich 4 June 2021 01: 03
              0
              Quote: Nikolaevich I
              Well, here is the "question" of ammunition unification! recourse
              Do you mean "152mm rifled breech-loading mortar" or M-160?
              recourse
              1. Nikolaevich I
                Nikolaevich I 4 June 2021 01: 12
                0
                Exactly 152-mm caliber ... Is it "bad" to use the same ammunition with different artillery systems? wink
                1. cat Rusich
                  cat Rusich 4 June 2021 19: 58
                  0
                  Quote: Nikolaevich I
                  Exactly 152-mm caliber ... Is it "bad" to use the same ammunition with different artillery systems? wink
                  1) Do you mean to say -
                  "152mm shots" for rifled mortar suitable for a "conventional gun" caliber 152mm ...
                  2) You took as an example gun NONA - 2A51
                  shots for sao nona
                  In the photo there are shots for 2А51 cannon SAO Nona-S
                  Except for 120mm mines, there are also 120mm rounds, BUT they have ready-made projections for cutting in the barrel and the very scheme of these shots repeats the mortar mine -
                  They do not look like an "ordinary artillery shot".
                  It will not work to unify a shot-mine for a rifled mortar with a conventional weapon, and vice versa.
                  You can give your reasons, preferably with pictures for clarity and the simplest explanations for clarity.
                  Regards hi
                  1. Nikolaevich I
                    Nikolaevich I 4 June 2021 23: 58
                    0
                    For a better understanding of this fragment from my commentary, I mentioned "Nonu-M1" as an approximate (!) "Analogue"! But I did not say anything about the full 152-mm "analogue" of the "Nona-M1" mortar! In the article, where the 152-mm "mortar" was mentioned, 1-2 lines were "dedicated" to it without any illustrations! By the way, it's not for nothing that I put the word mortar in quotation marks; because. there was too little information about this "weapon"! What would you like ? So I can take the time to search for this article in my "archive"? After all, I mentioned the "152-mm mortar" in passing, not intending to intrigue anyone especially with this! Over time, I have "not a lot" ... only late in the evening I can do my "hobby" in detail (more attentive reading of articles on VO and commenting on them) ... The rest of the time, I visit VO pages in "snatches" ... Honestly, I am reluctant to waste time looking for the mentioned article ... but I will try as much as possible ... hi
      2. chenia
        chenia 3 June 2021 13: 38
        +1
        Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
        "Pat-B" weighs 4,3 tons. Can't be lifted by MI-8 helicopter

        Leave alone the armament for the Airborne Assault Force (DShB) Airborne Forces.
        There is a dance around the artillery of the MSD and RGK.
        And here the transition to 152 mm is ripe. With the advent of self-propelled guns, the speed of firing missions was highest at 152 mm. which is what we need now. And the range is superior to smaller calibers. and if you have a caliber 122. (also self-propelled). then in the battalion level.
        And the "light" units and formations have their own equipment and weapons.
        Share it like that.
        1. Sergey Aleksandrovich
          Sergey Aleksandrovich 3 June 2021 14: 56
          0
          And then what is Pat-B for if there is already Msta-B, Msta-S and even Acacia?
          1. chenia
            chenia 3 June 2021 17: 40
            +2
            Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
            And then what is Pat-B for?

            And riveted for regimental artillery, under the tendency of artillery transition to a single 152 mm caliber. (instead of D-30) in ADN MSP.
            Here the subtlety must be grasped. Most tasks towed artillery successfully performs 122 mm. To perform individual tasks (this is usually shooting for destruction), of course, 152 mm is better (for this there is one ADN in the AP MSD). And in terms of area (and this is VOP, etc.), the most popular shooting in 152 mm caliber, having a consumption 1/3 less, the task cannot be completed faster due to the lower rate of fire. With a 122 mm projectile, you can handle it indefinitely, and with a 152 mm, steam will quickly go out of the rear. One HE and the calculation should be sent to the sanatorium.
            In self-propelled vehicles, where there is a MZ or facilitation of loading, this problem is solved. And then it's really an effect.
  3. TerraSandera
    TerraSandera 3 June 2021 07: 11
    0
    What about the coalition? Does she have a future? By the way, it is clear that this is the backbone and a pretty good weapon.
  4. garri-lin
    garri-lin 3 June 2021 07: 27
    -2
    Msta. Coalition. Genocide. Acacia. And everything is 152mm. Although the tasks are different.
    1. Grits
      Grits 3 June 2021 08: 12
      0
      Quote: garri-lin
      Msta. Coalition. Genocide. Acacia. And everything is 152mm. Although the tasks are different.

      Plus, the same guns in a towed version
      1. garri-lin
        garri-lin 3 June 2021 10: 06
        0
        Well, if you think about it, the analogs are only Msta with the Coalition. Although, on the other hand, the Coalition and the Genocide are overlapping. Oh, everything is complicated.
        1. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr 3 June 2021 12: 39
          +1
          They have one caliber, but the gunpowder ignition system (at least for the "Coalition-SV") is different, which means they differ in shells. At "Coalition-SV" the shot is carried out by a microwave charge initiation system - does it work with standard charges or does this gun need its own?
          And what about the compatibility of the rest of the 152mm caliber guns?
          1. garri-lin
            garri-lin 3 June 2021 13: 25
            -1
            It's not about the ignition system and the shells. It's about targeted use.
            1. Bad_gr
              Bad_gr 3 June 2021 13: 38
              0
              Quote: garri-lin
              It's not about the ignition system and the shells. It's about targeted use.

              It goes without saying. I'm talking about ammunition compatibility. Within the framework of the standards that we inherited from the war, we cannot maintain parity with Western guns. And if you create new ones, the prospect must be laid out differently, after a few years, you will again need to create a new one, and then problems of compatibility of new weapons with ammunition that are in warehouses, compatibility of new ammunition with old weapons, etc. In general, the fewer these very transitional steps, the fewer problems.
              Who will educate on this topic?
              1. garri-lin
                garri-lin 3 June 2021 15: 28
                0
                Eh uv. Comrade Lopatov has not been seen for a long time. He would explain everything on his fingers. With facts and examples.
          2. Bogalex
            Bogalex 4 June 2021 00: 54
            +1
            The shots for the "Coalition" have the fashionable nowadays MMZ - a modular propellant charge. She is not at all friendly with shell casings and it is impossible to use shots in it for any other 152-mm guns.
            For the rest, the picture is as follows:
            "Hyacinth" - completely own shots, designed just for her;
            "Akatsia" - a family of very old shots for ML-20, D-1, etc., plus its own shot. Msta does not eat ammunition.
            "Msta" - all shots of the "Akatsiya" family plus their own specialized ones.
  5. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 3 June 2021 08: 00
    0
    Maybe it is necessary to put barrels from the Coalition on MSTu ... Competitors are increasing the range
    1. Barberry25
      Barberry25 3 June 2021 09: 32
      0
      will look .. the question on the price, performance characteristics and resource ..
    2. Sergey Aleksandrovich
      Sergey Aleksandrovich 3 June 2021 10: 10
      0
      As far as I know, high quality steel for the shafts of the Coalition and Armata was cast in open-hearth furnaces, in which, at the insistence of ecologists, smelting was stopped everywhere 7-10 years ago. This problem seems to be resolving more slowly than we would like.
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 3 June 2021 10: 22
        +1
        They wrote what they were doing, but they could not do serially with the required quality
    3. Bogalex
      Bogalex 4 June 2021 00: 55
      0
      Will the turret and chassis shoulder strap withstand?
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 4 June 2021 07: 23
        0
        The chassis is the same ..... If the cannon is moved to the turret .. why not?
        1. Bogalex
          Bogalex 4 June 2021 19: 51
          0
          No, not the same ...
  6. tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 3 June 2021 11: 03
    0
    Flurry of Fire mode, how many shells are 3, 4, 6. As I understand from the angle of the gun's elevation, they arrive at the target almost at the same time. Thank you in advance! hi
    1. Bogalex
      Bogalex 4 June 2021 00: 56
      +1
      No more than three.
  7. Sergey Aleksandrovich
    Sergey Aleksandrovich 3 June 2021 11: 19
    0
    Large-caliber artillery of 152 mm is good, but it would be nice to keep the 122 mm "Carnations", which were used to directly support the infantry. Even if there is a gradual transition to the BMP-3, the firepower will still be lacking. Carnation has good cross-country ability and a large selection of ammunition, including shrapnel. MSTA is not inferior in weight to tanks and may not always be where it is needed, and even has a high silhouette.
    1. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 3 June 2021 15: 27
      +2
      Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
      Carnation has good maneuverability and a large selection of ammunition, including shrapnel. MSTA is not inferior in weight to tanks and may not always be where you need it, and even has a high silhouette.
      The option is easier. New gun from the self-propelled gun "Coalition SV" based on the 2S5 "Hyacinth-S". I don't have this development or stalled information.
      1. Sergey Aleksandrovich
        Sergey Aleksandrovich 3 June 2021 16: 22
        0
        With such a thing on direct fire, if you can't get out, there is no protection for the crew from shrapnel and small arms fire. This is for great accomplishments and something significant, and it is better to go out for direct fire with Carnation or Acacia.
        1. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 4 June 2021 07: 27
          0
          This is long-range artillery ... it should be installed on the Auto chassis.
  8. Bogalex
    Bogalex 4 June 2021 00: 45
    +1
    It's all messed up ...
    The 2S33 is not a modernization of the 2S19, but a completely independent weapon. Moreover, the ROC for its creation had the code "Msta-SM".
    2S19M2 has nothing to do with the code "Msta-SM", stop breeding this delusion!
    It was developed within the framework of the ROC "Dilemma", but, unlike the 120-mm 2S34 "Host", the midrange for upgrading the 2S19 to the level of "M2" did not have an independent cipher, and therefore retains the usual "Msta-S".
    As for the developments of the 90s, then, apparently, we are talking about the 2S30 "Iset". Although I will not argue - I have met very little mention of it and, mainly, in narrative sources, which, as you know, should be trusted very carefully.
    1. Hermann
      Hermann 4 June 2021 02: 23
      0
      Are the old 2c19 refined to the level of M2? I read that only up to M1, and that 2s19m2 are only new.
      1. Bogalex
        Bogalex 4 June 2021 19: 55
        +1
        In order to accurately answer this question, one must be involved in the sect of "State Defense Order and GPV witnesses". )))
        Technically, during a major overhaul, the 2S19 can be upgraded to both the M1 and M2 levels. It seems that the second is somewhat more expensive.
        On the other hand, the 2S19M1 has not been put into service and, theoretically, cannot be included in the list of works performed for the sovereign's money at all. But ... Wizards from DOGOZ and GRAU can do anything)))
        1. Hermann
          Hermann 4 June 2021 23: 21
          0
          I don't know if the 2s19m1 has been adopted or not, but it is present in the army in commercial quantities, 2s19m1 from 2s19 can be distinguished visually by the presence of a satellite navigation antenna on the tower.
          1. Bogalex
            Bogalex 6 June 2021 13: 03
            +1
            Not accepted for service, but it is indeed present in the troops. You are absolutely right about the visual differences.
  9. Bogalex
    Bogalex 4 June 2021 00: 49
    +1
    Quote: Nikolaevich I
    Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
    "Pat-B" weighs 4,3 tons. Can't be lifted by MI-8 helicopter

    ... development of a 152-mm rifled breech-loading "mortar" ... like the famous 120-mm mortar "Nona-M1" ...)

    "Nona-M1" is a 120mm 2B-23. Adopted to replace the 2B11, it is practically absent in the army.
  10. Protos
    Protos 8 June 2021 12: 52
    0
    Quote: Nikolaevich I
    "The 152-mm Pat-B howitzer was supposed to be a candidate for this place ....

    "Pat-B" was even put into service, but the troops, except for the installation battery, did not enter ... A number of shortcomings were also revealed ... troops ...

    On its basis, NATO released its air transportable 777
  11. Orca
    Orca 16 June 2021 09: 11
    -1
    Quote: cat Rusich
    Can be taken from warehouses mortar M-160

    recourse
    Precisely, to cut a little and make a reusable shaitan-pipe out of it - that's for the Airborne Forces. bully
  12. TANKISTONE
    TANKISTONE 23 July 2021 21: 04
    0
    The author earned a penny again, repeating from paragraph to paragraph. There are, however, questions: 1. Why 152mm, and not 155mm, like an adversary? Ammunition of superior power? 2. Gun metal (wear resistance, deformation, increased bore pressure - all this is better than that of an adversary ???) 3.The same is with tanks: are the power of the guns and the protection comparable to those of the "partner" ones? Yes, Russia does not plan to attack anyone, but it is obliged to defend itself on such a vast territory!
  13. Saladine
    Saladine 16 August 2021 21: 25
    0
    The question is why the range of our ACS is much lower than their foreign counterparts?
    1. lucul
      lucul 16 August 2021 21: 29
      -2
      The question is why the range of our ACS is much lower than their foreign counterparts?

      Because there is an active-rocket projectile, in fact, a small rocket. The result is far, but very expensive.
      For example, 1 shot from the destroyer Zamvolt with a 155mm cannon costs $ 800)))