Competitor to the Russian Yak-130: the Italian press named the alleged buyer of the M-346 aircraft in a special color scheme

The attention of the foreign press was attracted by the Italian M-346 combat training aircraft with an unusual coloring.

On May 28, an M-346FA was photographed leaving the Leonardo plant in northern Italy in a special exotic color scheme. The aircraft had a livery, very similar to the one applied to the fighters of the Turkmen or Azerbaijani Air Force.

- noted in Blog Before Flight.

Earlier, the manufacturer reported on the conclusion of agreements providing for the shipment of four aircraft of the Polish Air Force and six to an unknown customer. Many media outlets are convinced that Turkmenistan is a secret buyer, “but we don’t think so,” the newspaper said. Ashgabat recently ordered six Brazilian Embraer Super Tucanos, which fulfill the same role as the M-346FA.

Although the Italian aircraft has the best characteristics, we believe that Turkmenistan does not have enough funds to manage an overly diversified fleet. Therefore, we lean more in favor of Azerbaijan.

- write in the press in Italy, naming the alleged buyer of the UBS.

Moreover, on February 20, 2020, Leonardo CEO Alessandro Profumo and Azerbaijani Defense Minister Zakir Hasanov signed a Declaration of Intent providing for the supply of M-346s to replace the old L-39C Albatros and, probably, the Su-25 attack aircraft.

M-346 was originally created by an Italian company together with Russian developers. However, they subsequently parted ways. This is how two similar machines appeared - M-345 and Yak-130, which have been competing in foreign markets ever since.

Comments

[Mountain shooter]

Azerbaijan is not included in the CSTO, he likes the Italian - let him ... IMHO, the 130th successful aircraft, and in the version of a light attack aircraft too.

[Anachoret]

130 is a successful aircraft in many respects) both training and light attack aircraft, and for the price with maintenance, I think, quite suitable)

[mvg]

How long has he become a stormtrooper? Educate people about how armor was hung on it and a non-existent radar station was installed. And they got into a non-existent country. Again fairy tales or glitches?
It may also clarify what is successful in it, if the Chinese L-7 surpasses it in everything except the price. Eats supersonic, there is a radar, a large carrying capacity and a lower price.

[Glory1974]

How long has he become a stormtrooper?

It is positioned on the market as "a combat training aircraft with the possibility of converting into a light attack aircraft or light fighter."
Armor is probably not being hung, but weapons are being changed.

[mvg]

To be an attack aircraft, you need to hang armor on the cockpit and engine. You need an aiming and search container (we don't have one) or a radar (it doesn't have those dimensions either). Otherwise, only cast iron can be discarded = suicide. It takes only 2+ tons of payload, if you book a cabin, vital components, engines, and duplicate control, stick in a radar or an outboard container, then the payload will be reduced to a couple of F-1 grenades and the price tag will be around $ 25 million. This is the price tag of a used F-16 bl 30/52. And twice the size of the new Su-25.
PS: So what's all the tsimus then? L-39 costs several times less, but can do the same. This is just my opinion, which was formed from a couple of dozen articles about the "legendary" Yak-130

[IL-18]

Quote: mvg

new su-25

Yeah, and where is he new? (

The Su-25 will no longer be produced in serial volumes. We are only engaged in the modernization of the new version of the Su-25TM, ”said Manturov. As a replacement for the Su-25, the minister named the Yak-130 combat training aircraft, which can also be used as a light attack aircraft.

[akarfoxhound]

They do not change anything there, the self-transport is an empty flying tin, tk. not fully finished and put into series. If you bring it up, there is still a lot of money and time (no one will do this). On the Su-33 at the exhibitions, ours also hung a Mosquito to scare the enemy, the X-31 hung on the MiG-31, but in reality it cannot be used and it did not go beyond the exhibitions

[mvg]

On the Su-33 at the exhibitions, ours also hung the Mosquito of the enemy to scare

Never... God forbid ... They may have hung Onyx, but Su cannot use it, only Tu-22.
Su-33, before the recent modernization, in front of Syria (4 sides) generally only dragged cast iron ((on the ground) .. It's not even a J-15 with AFAR, which the PL-15 carries and knows how to work on the ground. junk .. 33 aircraft, 12 +/- pilots. Everything is clearly shown in Syria. Not for nothing, for 20 years of service of military campaigns, you can count on your fingers.

[akarfoxhound]

Thats exactly what I mean! But the "clever patriots", judging by the minuses, believe that if the party orders (and they will show it on TV too!), Then, like that ensign, "crocodiles fly, really low-low"

[Reserve buildbat]

Here is a photo of the Mosquito under the Su-33 at the exhibition. "Onyx" there next to the lodgements

[mvg]

"Mosquito" under the Su-33 at the exhibition

The Mosquito was never launched from the air .. Neither Su, nor Tu, nor any other vessel. This, as in the DPRK and Iran, is wishful thinking.
It seems like it's technically possible (though it's a very small range, if I'm not mistaken, at the end of the 90s we studied the Mosquito version for 120 km), but anti-ship missiles were rarely hung on the Su and MiG. It is now possible to suspend the air Uranus, and even the Russian Aerospace Forces does not have Brahmos.
PS: There is an outright old X-22, but also only for the Tu-22
PPPS: There was no Onyx under Su's belly either. Never, or just a model carcass at exhibitions.

[Reserve buildbat]

"On the Su-33 at the exhibitions, ours also hung a Mosquito to scare the enemy, the X-31 hung on the MiG-31, but in reality it cannot be used and it did not go beyond the exhibitions," a member of the forum wrote to you. WHERE is the statement that the Mosquito was used with the Su-33? How about literacy? Can I read it, understand it in any way?
And I brought the photo FROM THE EXHIBITION

[dauria]

How long has he become a stormtrooper?

Well, "stormtrooper" is an old stuck name from the 70s. Then training aircraft were adapted for strikes against ground targets during the day in simple weather conditions (it was simply unrealistic to shove the radar station). Like our Yak-32, the West German Alpha-Jet and a bunch of others.
Of course, there was no armor either then or now. But AFAR turned it into a kind of multifunctional fighter of the "Light" series. KRET threatened to make him AFAR back in 2015, but apparently they considered it unnecessary for themselves. And for export - even the Chinese will not let them breathe. The photo shows our training Yak-30 in this capacity. Only from the single sports version of the Yak-32.

[venik]

Quote: mvg

Educate people about how armor was hung on it and a non-existent radar station was installed

=======
And for attack aircraft - a radar station is it necessary ?? And where does it stand on the Su-25, do you tell me? (PS Nothing personal! Just a slight snide!)

[dauria]

And for attack aircraft - a radar station is it necessary ??

So after all myself such the attack aircraft is no longer needed. What will he do at night or in the SMU? And the "Italian" radar weighs 80 kg. Wouldn't hurt a Su-25. Both on the ground and on air targets. Radar is the vision of modern aviation. Who needs a shortsighted soldier.

[Grits]

Quote: dauria

And the "Italian" radar weighs 80 kg.

It turns out that after the paths diverged, the Italians surpassed us? And, apparently, not only in promoting their products.

[decimalegio]

“Before trying to create something new, it is important to evaluate what already exists in your environment. I myself can confirm that this is so. “Mikhail Timofeevich Kalashnikov. With a translator, you seem to have a contemptuous tone


design by Italiana Italdesign


Italy can teach you something too

[akarfoxhound]

For the Yak in the advertisement of the design bureau, a re-equipment with a radar was carried out, tk. the aircraft was potentially reprogrammed for cadets as an attack aircraft, a fighter, etc. for training air battles, control had to be changed (for attack aircraft and the bomber department, control was also "heavy").
Well, I also can’t help but sneer - in the 2000s I flew in 43 OMShAP on the Su-24 (and he with a radar ) Formulate the answer to the question for yourself - why did the "sailors" in the assault regiment prefer the front-line Su-24 bombers over the "clean" Su-25 attack aircraft?

[mvg]

And WHERE does it stand on the Su-25, can you tell me?

Did you know that before the modernization of the Su-25SM3, the attack aircraft could not use "smart" weapons? Now without this, the attack aircraft is just a suicide bomber. Who or what will give target designation? MTR fighter Maxim Pletnev and K, as usual, posthumously?
Or Aiming container (like the Israeli Litening or US Sniper or radar with good resolution.
PS: The fact that there is no radar on the Su-25 is not because of a good life, they just "didn’t sniff", and therefore this bookcase is worth mere pennies .. that is why it is often shot down (see Afghanistan, Georgia, Armenia, Ukraine)

[pilot306]

Quote: mvg

Chinese L-7

Yak-152 supersonic and radar?

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

Azerbaijan is not a member of the CSTO, he likes the Italian - let him.

And what does the CSTO have to do with it?
Well, Kazakhstan enters, and buys planes, for example, in China. Moreover, we have nothing to offer.

[maxim947]

The Italians made the plane (and for a long time and twice as expensive as ours), the question is - what about the weapons?)) And so ... who should buy this their business.

[Shiden]

And with weapons there everything is in order 2 tons at 7 nodes plus a radar, can act as a light attack aircraft or light fighter. So the airplane is toothy.

[knn54]

"Italian" is 700 kg lighter, has higher maneuverability, and also uses foreign equipment, in particular Honeywell F124-GA-200 turbofan engines.
The Yak-130 uses the AI-222-25 engine, the developer of which is the Zaporozhye MKB “Progress.” At the Moscow MMPP “Salyut” they assembled engines from parts coming from Ukraine.
Today these deliveries have stopped and Russia is producing KAI-222-25, practically on its knees. Therefore, the quality of the engines raises serious doubts.

[donavi49]

Armament carriage. There is traditionally a western school on horseback. If you want an airborne missile, you want an anti-ship missile, you want a CD, you want 1000500 planning, corrected and other bombs. There is a container with stabilized multi-mode optics (while on the Yak, like the grandfathers on the IL-2, you have to look for the target with your eyes), and a couple of radar options can be installed, including AFAR.

[Ehmedli]

Thanks Donavi.
So the Azerbaijani will be with the EOS container Aselpod, and the AFAR radar. 100%.

[tralflot1832]

But it seems to me for Argentina! Who has what opinion, Ukraine should not be offered, there are F22 and F35 on the way.

[From Tomsk]

And if you stick a radio tape recorder in there and toned it, then finally there will be a hit))

[Pavel57]

M345 and Yak-130 can theoretically meet in battle.

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: Pavel57

M345 and Yak-130 can theoretically meet in battle.

No.
Can not.
Even theoretically.
Yak is a purely training machine.
Italian - can be both training and combat.

[Guru]

Jacket in stock (Konstantin)
No.
Can not.
Even theoretically.
Yak is a purely training machine.
Italian - can be both training and combat.

Konstantin - again you are driving the Blizzard, Well, you do not want to read specialized sites, then at least take a look at the wiki (Google).

Tasks
The mission of the aircraft includes training of cadets of flight schools: takeoff-landing, piloting, navigation, performing complex maneuvers, acquiring skills to operate on the limiting flight modes, actions in case of aircraft failures and pilot errors, performing flights in closed combat orders during the day and in conditions of visual visibility , the development of weapons systems and the development of the basics of combat use in actions on ground and air targets, training in the implementation of offensive and defensive maneuvers characteristic of aircraft sv fourth and fifth generations.

The aircraft is equipped with a system for simulating combat use modes, which allows (without firing real ammunition) to practice air combat, interaction between aircraft, missile and bomb strikes against ground targets, including imitation of enemy air defense. There are also nine suspension points - for outboard fuel tanks and containers with real guns and missiles.

In the event of war, the aircraft is able to perform the tasks of a light attack aircraft - to destroy individual ground targets, low-speed air targets.

When supplied for export, the Yak-130 is positioned as a training complex for the development of Su-30MK fighters.

And I will add a little.
After the transfer of production to Irkut in 2011, the company decided to create a light attack aircraft with a radar (Bars-130) and high-precision weapons based on the Yak-130.

[URAL72]

Quite right. Let me just remind you - Syria paid for 6 Yak-130s, but they were not delivered there. The wording is simple - the vehicle can be used as a combat vehicle. After all, the suspension nodes are not there for nothing ...

[mvg]

the company decided to create on the basis of the Yak-130 a light attack aircraft with a radar (Bars-130) and high-precision weapons

Watch TV Zvezda less and read zhukvest ... as Prof. Preobrazhensky said. The fact that somewhere there (MAKS-2019), that something was shown in 2019, it means NOTHING. BEETLE-A AFAR was shown back in 2008, but things are still there. Who needs attack aircraft based on the Yak-130? Laos, Algeria, Syria? Moreover, the payload, after conversion into an attack aircraft. will be "the cat cried". For half the money they will buy a Su-25 or a used A-10 Thunderbolt, they are just writing off.

[Ehmedli]

Color in comparison with the Azerbaijan MIG-29.

(The Ukrainian Air Force also has something similar, but they have more blue and blue, and this Leonardo, like the Azerbaijani MIGs, has a mixture with green.)

[Patigorsk2020]

Quote: Ehmedli

and this Leonardo, like the Azerbaijani MIGs, has a mixture with green.)

I also tend to believe that this is a camouflage for the Azerbaijan Air Force, although the Migi of Turkmenistan has almost the same camouflage.

Azerbaijan

Turkmenistan

[Jacket in stock]

two similar machines - M-345 and Yak-130, which have been competing in foreign markets ever since.

And how are they similar, apart from some design elements of the appearance?
And what markets are they competing in ??!
Funny.

[Glory1974]

And how are they similar, apart from some design elements of the appearance? And what markets are they competing in ??!

the plane was developed jointly with the Italians, therefore, in principle, it is one and the same plane. The difference is in engines and avionics.
Accordingly, both ours and Italians sell them in the same niche - combat training aircraft.
ours sold about 160 pieces, the Italians don't know.

[And Us Rat]

Quote: glory1974

ours sold about 160 pieces, the Italians don't know.

The Italians sold 110 units (judging by the Anglo-Wiki).
Turkmenistan - 4
Singapore - 12
Poland - 12
Nigeria - 24
Italy - 18
Israel - 30
Greece - 10

[Patigorsk2020]

Quote: And Us Rat

The Italians sold 110 units (judging by the Anglo-Wiki).

The Italian also has about 10 units in service with Azerbaijan, and 15 have been ordered additionally. And Wikipedia is not a source. There is no need to look there.

[And Us Rat]

Quote: Patigorsk2020

And Wikipedia is not a source. There is no need to look there.

And who decided that? And what is a reliable source?

[mvg]

sold about 160 pcs.

Not true, if you only add 100 pieces of the RF Aerospace Forces ... and so less than 40 boards.

[donavi49]

Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan. Both, in theory, could have taken Jacob.

Another 30 potential vehicles were lost in Iraq and Indonesia - which took the Korean supersonic variant. He has nothing to do with Yak, but briskly broke into the market and sold more than 50 boards pretty quickly.

Also, the Chinese version with afterburner and ruffles goes to Africa. Zambia has already received 6 aircraft.

Another Chinese took Sudan.

Yak has several obvious problems:
- Limited supply. In fact, there is a TCB with different tricks, a very buggy control system (6 out of 9 falls due to EDSU) without supersonic, no charged variations, for a rather high price.
- Pressure on the buyer. NATO, friends of NATO, friends of the United States, petrodians who have good relations with the United States / EU - disappear.
- Direct sanctions, which will also be slapped for Yaki, that is, the circle of potential buyers is still narrowing to the level of Syria, Myanmar, Iran, CAR. And Venezuela is already working with the Chinese and new contracts, even in a forgiven debt, will probably not be.

[Patigorsk2020]

Quote: donavi49

Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan. Both, in theory, could have taken Jacob.

The Azerbaijani side showed interest in Sushki and Migams - Rosoboronexport was denied this. Yes, they could ...........

[donavi49]

Well, the Turkmen is also too early to write off. He was examined and seemed to even be flown around by Himself - the great Warrior, Strategist of the level of Alexander, the Light of the nation, the Greatest of the Living ...

[The leader of the Redskins]

Eck you painted HIM ... And I found only the predecessor - Turkmenbashi. Briefly and clearly - the father of the Turkmen)))
And the color of the current one is really parrotish.

[adler87]

Itself, is it, by chance, Vladimir Vladimirovich?

[Ehmedli]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

And the color of the current one is really parrotish.

In terms of beauty, of course, I think everyone will agree with you. Terrible.
But Camouflage is different for each nature. Israel, for example, is deserted, we have such

Sori for the quality, photo freeze frame from the video. MIG29 Azerbaijan.

[Other]

The Yak-130 is like the Sukhoi Superjet 100, it turned out to be an excellent aircraft, therefore, it is too good for export! Let them envy now, as they say: "Not yours - here you are mad!"

[Oleg Aviator]

Judging by the lump, most likely Azerbaijan.

[And Us Rat]

Embraer Super Tucanos, which fulfill the same role as the M-346FA

An amateurishly incorrect comparison. These are machines of different stages of pilot training (in countries with developed air forces, at least).
First, cadets fly on "whatnot", learning the basics of piloting.



Then they transfer to the "flying desk" of the Super Tucanos type, studying modern avionics and onboard systems.



And only then do they transfer to a jet "combat training" to study the tactics of warfare and weapon systems.



The question is in cost savings - an hour of flight M-346 is significantly more expensive than an hour of flight of a turbo-propeller Super Tucano.

[iouris]

The planes were developed at the same time and the same firms began to make them in cooperation. Then the paths parted. And that was a long time ago. What happened - feel the difference.

[Gueuze Ulenspiegel]

It turns out that the Italians make planes? I thought they only know how to sing, sew and dance ...

[iouris]

Once upon a time, Russian and ballet were ahead of the rest ...

[mvg]

The Italians, unlike the Russian Navy, have their own (operating) aircraft carrier, they have their own (operating) AFAR ... and destroyers in the fleet, and this is not the case of 956 Sarych 80 years, and on the avik there is an air group (so far the state one) from the F-35V ... There is also football, which is also a difference from Russia.