Military Review

"Meteor missile guarantees victory for Eurofighter": Bundeswehr on modern air combat

125

Equipping German fighters with a long-range missile allowed them to move to a new level of combat effectiveness.


After adapting the Meteor guided missile to the Eurofighter fighter, which has become a multinational masterpiece [developed since 2002 by Germany, France, Italy, Spain and Britain], the country's Air Force opened a new milestone in its development

- indicated in the materials of the German armed forces.

It is emphasized that Meteor is a truly innovative solution from a technical point of view. While conventional missiles use only a rocket booster as their engine, the Meteor only needs it to reach supersonic speed. The direct-flow power plant, featuring high reliability, significantly increases the flight range [up to 200 km], which is "critically important for modern air combat."

The current battles in the air have little to do with the motion picture [...] it is unrealistic that two fighters will chase each other, performing sharp maneuvers at a distance of several hundred meters. Rather, we are talking about long-range combat

- believe in the Bundeswehr.

Therefore, it is important to be able to launch the rocket as early as possible, after which it will independently fly to its target. This principle, also known as fire and forget, ensures that the carrier aircraft is out of range.

You try to identify possible enemy aircraft at an early stage in order to surpass both their defense systems and the capabilities of their weapons

- note on the Bundeswehr's website, pointing out that "the Meteor missile guarantees the victory of the Eurofighter, turning it into an air superiority fighter."

Photos used:
German Defense Ministry website
125 comments
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  1. Xlor
    Xlor 31 May 2021 17: 08
    0
    There is one question - will the classic air battles, which were in the Second World War, be in future wars?
    1. URAL72
      URAL72 31 May 2021 17: 15
      +5
      There will be. Not everyone has modern aircraft and missiles. In Yugoslavia, Ethiopia, the Indo-Pakistani conflict were. Sometimes you need to shoot down an intruder on Cessna, with drugs, for example, or a UAV. Stealth technology also reduces the combat distance. The meteor is good. We also need V-V ramjet missiles. Hopefully working on it. These technologies are not a secret for us.
      1. knn54
        knn54 31 May 2021 17: 49
        +2
        The Japanese also participate in the program.
        The speed is over 3M, compact, with AFAR. "Will fit" into the internal compartments of the F-35A.
        In Russia, they are testing a similar rocket-product RVV-BD, but the dimensions (like) are bigger.
        1. yehat2
          yehat2 1 June 2021 13: 33
          +2
          Quote: knn54
          In Russia, they are testing a similar rocket-product RVV-BD, but the dimensions (like) are bigger.

          and Soviet missiles will remain in the warehouses of real parts.
          look, the new generation of rockets is used mostly by pieces, the rest are old.
          Formally, there are new missiles, but they are not used. That in fact is the absence.
          Well, they will invent a new mega-rocket, they will release 10 pieces and that's all, and the rest - 10-12 pieces under the belly of the R60M melee missiles, which are 40 years old.
      2. Aag
        Aag 31 May 2021 17: 52
        0
        Quote: URAL72
        There will be. Not everyone has modern aircraft and missiles. In Yugoslavia, Ethiopia, the Indo-Pakistani conflict were. Sometimes you need to shoot down an intruder on Cessna, with drugs, for example, or a UAV. Stealth technology also reduces the combat distance. The meteor is good. We also need V-V ramjet missiles. Hopefully working on it. These technologies are not a secret for us.

        I think the question from Xlor was not about that ... Let me paraphrase, it's also interesting (since it's not special). Are the adversaries ready for this (?) (But, I think, extremely unlikely, if only as an exception, - due to the chaos from the scale of the confrontation ...) And so, well, at least, I would like to believe that they will not start raging without having a clear superiority (there are, of course, rabid politicians from a number of countries ...). hi
        I would like to know your opinion.
    2. Mooh
      Mooh 31 May 2021 17: 16
      +7
      It would be nice to read the article before commenting;) It says that the Bundeswehr thinks not. But the Russian Aerospace Forces has a slightly different opinion on this matter.
      Let me remind you that they already tried to bury the BVB in the 60s, they did not even put cannons on new fighters, but something went wrong, they had to return it.
      1. Cananecat
        Cananecat 31 May 2021 18: 32
        -2
        Quote: MooH
        It says that the Bundeswehr thinks not. But the Russian Aerospace Forces has a slightly different opinion on this matter.

        As I understand it, "these stupid and illiterate Russians", in which case they will again break the template for brilliant Europeans by the lack of logic in their actions ...
        1. mvg
          mvg 31 May 2021 21: 48
          -8
          in which case they will tear the template again

          Tore a lot? Are there examples outside of alternate reality?
          1. Cananecat
            Cananecat 1 June 2021 00: 46
            -2
            Quote: mvg
            Tore a lot?

            Learn the materiel ...
        2. Charik
          Charik 1 June 2021 13: 01
          0
          War not by the rules - the "hobbyhorse" of the Russian soldier
    3. Guru
      Guru 31 May 2021 17: 20
      -3
      There is one question - will the classic air battles, which were in the Second World War, be in future wars?
      The answer is simple ! Yes. There will be many precedents. For example, do you know that Hitler's tanks were destroyed with the help of cannons participating in the defeat of Napoleon?
      And the article says; "Therefore, it is important to be able to launch the missile as early as possible, after which it will independently fly to its target."
      But whether it will achieve the goal and destroy it is a question. And if it doesn’t destroy and there are no more missiles, and the evil ENEMY is approaching, then why should the pilot of the Eurofighter fighter TRACK? laughing
      1. Thrifty
        Thrifty 31 May 2021 17: 42
        +6
        Guru, weren't the guns of Tsar Salomon sinking the German aircraft carriers? lol Or, I got it wrong again belay , these were torpedoes from the Charlemagne period recourse laughing
        1. Guru
          Guru 31 May 2021 17: 52
          +2
          Thrifty
          Guru, weren't the guns of Tsar Salomon sinking the German aircraft carriers? lol Or, I again confused something belay, these were the torpedoes of the Charlemagne period recourse laughing
          I understood your humor :) and when I found out I also laughed, but this is a historical fact. 152 millimeters is 152 millimeters and the Czech PZ-38 flew into 4 parts from being hit. This is the story of my people - I am Russian. And here you remembered Solomon laughing Well i'm not your doctor hi
          And it was also near Moscow in 1941, the cannons were from the museum.
          1. Thrifty
            Thrifty 31 May 2021 17: 57
            +3
            Guru, do not believe me, I am Russian too! hi I do not need doctors, otherwise I will get a stroke again, but I read about the fact you indicated for a long time, but unfortunately I forgot hi
            1. Guru
              Guru 31 May 2021 18: 02
              +3
              Guru, believe me, I am Russian too! Hi
              The apologies were accepted, apparently I did not express myself quite correctly, but I just wanted to emphasize that no one canceled the close maneuvering fight (Dog's quarrel).
              1. Kuroneko
                Kuroneko 31 May 2021 18: 12
                -1
                There will definitely be no dog dump. If a western fighter is exposed to close combat with ours, he is a corpse. Only we took the path of super-maneuverability. And bourgeois pilots have long been afraid of close combat. In fact, they are not really taught him. So, the storming of the Papuans.
          2. aleks700
            aleks700 31 May 2021 18: 58
            +2
            Maybe the times of the Russian Turkish? 1877
            1. Guru
              Guru 1 June 2021 13: 51
              -1
              Maybe the times of the Russian Turkish? 1877
              Yes, you are right, I made a slip. hi But that doesn't change the fact, does it?
              1. aleks700
                aleks700 6 June 2021 11: 34
                0
                Doesn't change. The main thing is efficiency. Used effectively? Yes, I think so.
          3. mvg
            mvg 31 May 2021 21: 53
            -1
            This is the story of my people -I am Russian

            It would be better not to laugh, but to make friends with the head ... there is definitely more sense. Well, they would separate the media nonsense from the real. It's just like smacking bricks on a tank .. PZ-38, although a light tank, is almost the best in its class. And there is armor steel.
          4. Jacket in stock
            Jacket in stock 1 June 2021 09: 04
            +2
            Hitler's tanks were destroyed with the help of cannons participating in the defeat of Napoleon?

            Which ones?
            Quote: Guru
            from the museum

            Quote: Guru
            it was near Moscow in 1941

            Yeah.
            I heard a ring, but you don’t know where he is.
            The cannons from the museum did shoot at German tanks in 1941.
            Only to the war with Napoleon, they are not in any way, because they were made 100 years later.
            These were guns from the First World War.
            You need to be more careful, and you also call yourself a guru.
            Not solid.
            1. Guru
              Guru 1 June 2021 13: 36
              -1
              I heard a ring, but you don’t know where he is.
              You just heard the ringing, but did not understand where he is. I don’t want to discuss your children's passage, I’ll only ask leading questions.
              1) What is Satya about?
              2) In what context did I use the mention of the cannons from the museum.
              Of course, I overdid it about Napoleon, but otherwise.
              You can watch the video if you are too lazy to read.
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ps3JA5Y-L_U&t=7s
              So you say Cannons of the First World War ??? So who hears the ringing and doesn't know where it is? hi
        2. Sidor Amenpodestovich
          Sidor Amenpodestovich 31 May 2021 19: 34
          +7
          Quote: Thrifty
          Salomon

          Mona fat? Not Mona? Well, lana.
      2. TermNachTer
        TermNachTer 31 May 2021 18: 00
        +1
        And how many of those "Eurofighters" are in the ranks? Recently it was infa that the Germans do not have a gut, with a technical condition.
        1. NF68
          NF68 31 May 2021 18: 08
          +1
          Quote: TermNachTER
          And how many of those "Eurofighters" are in the ranks? Recently it was infa that the Germans do not have a gut, with a technical condition.


          There is such a thing. And not only with aviation.
      3. nks
        nks 1 June 2021 13: 23
        0
        Quote: Guru
        For example, do you know that Hitler's tanks were destroyed with the help of cannons participating in the defeat of Napoleon?

        These were the cannons of the late 19th and early 20th centuries. To the era of Napoleon (even 3) have nothing to do
    4. Prisoner
      Prisoner 31 May 2021 17: 26
      -6
      Required. Unless a Fritz or another NATO falcon in flight has diarrhea after being intercepted by a vaunted rocket.
    5. NF68
      NF68 31 May 2021 18: 07
      +2
      Quote: Xlor
      There is one question - will the classic air battles, which were in the Second World War, be in future wars?


      If such missiles are being developed in many countries, then such missiles are also needed.
    6. Herman 4223
      Herman 4223 31 May 2021 18: 17
      0
      Approach is necessary for reliable target recognition. You need to make sure that the plane is definitely an enemy, that the rocket will go to the plane, and not the bait towed by the plane, you need to make sure that the locator sees the plane, and not some kind of electronic warfare. There are many reasons for rapprochement.
      1. Charik
        Charik 1 June 2021 13: 04
        0
        Come on, but friend or foe does not work, according to yours it is imperative to fly up and consider the stars in order to attack.
        1. Herman 4223
          Herman 4223 1 June 2021 13: 38
          0
          Do not be lazy and search the Internet for an article by an American colonel on this topic. He describes the problems of long-range air combat well there, beyond visual visibility.
          The unreliability of the identification system is one of the reasons why 90% of all downed aircraft were destroyed at close range. When red stars are visible
    7. Gunther
      Gunther 31 May 2021 18: 18
      +2
      Quote: Bundeswehr
      Current battles in the air have little
      in common with a movie [...] is unrealistic,
      that two fighters will be
      chase each other by doing
      sharp maneuvers at a distance
      several hundred meters. Rather speech
      it's about ranged combat



      in terms of insanity, the German experts were ahead of the Chinese:
      “... In their opinion, the EF2000 with a probability of 82% will emerge victorious from the fight with the Russian Su-35, and its combat effectiveness is equal to five MiG-29 aircraft. Also, the developers believe that the "Eurofighter" in terms of turn rate (M <1 and M> 1) surpasses the Su-35, F-16C, MiG-29 and the French fighter "Rafale" .... "
      as Mountain Shooter rightly said, the "meteor" will shine on the radar like a Christmas tree.
      In addition to the traditional maneuverability of our fighters, there is a system of active and passive protection - in a real battle of the "big war" long-range air-to-air missiles may turn out to be unreliable, the operation of electronic warfare, the destruction of ACS systems will force the pilot to determine the target visually, and a more nimble fighter will have an advantage.
  2. isv000
    isv000 31 May 2021 17: 10
    +1
    There is a Pokryshkin for every winner ... stop
  3. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 31 May 2021 17: 13
    +9
    The head will lock onto the target at a distance of 200 km? Or will the missile be thrown into the target area, and it will look for it itself? The emitter in the seeker of such power that it will capture an unobtrusive target for 200 km will shine on the radar like a Christmas tree.
    1. Thrifty
      Thrifty 31 May 2021 17: 47
      +1
      Mountain shooter - don't worry, the target will be static so that the rocket spends a minimum of time to hit it lol
    2. Aag
      Aag 31 May 2021 17: 56
      +2
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      The head will lock onto the target at a distance of 200 km? Or will the missile be thrown into the target area, and it will look for it itself? The emitter in the seeker of such power that it will capture an unobtrusive target for 200 km will shine on the radar like a Christmas tree.

      Let's wait for what the specialists say. A long sword is not yet a skillful hand, a keen eye (simplified) ...
    3. Andylw
      Andylw 31 May 2021 17: 57
      +3
      controlled meteor.
      detect a target and aim - the task of the fighter's radar
      1. Mountain shooter
        Mountain shooter 31 May 2021 19: 25
        +1
        Quote: AndyLW
        controlled meteor.
        detect a target and aim - the task of the fighter's radar

        Excellent! This means that the host-fighter will "shine". And he will immediately receive in return.
        1. Andylw
          Andylw 31 May 2021 19: 29
          +4
          if it is under the wing of the rvv-bd, then yes
          and if only p-77, then oh ...
    4. garri-lin
      garri-lin 31 May 2021 20: 08
      +2
      Plus a hot engine. There is something to visit with a simple anti-missile missile. A whole range of options.
    5. mvg
      mvg 31 May 2021 21: 58
      0
      The head will capture the target at a distance of 200 km

      For the sake of variety, try not to draw nonsense for at least a couple of days, what if you like it? Well, not that difficult ...
    6. nks
      nks 1 June 2021 13: 26
      0
      The target is locked on the trajectory along the preliminary control center with the possibility of adjustments.
      The control center is not necessarily from the carrier aircraft and, by the way, the meteor has a bidirectional data channel - it can give information about targets back and forth.
  4. lucul
    lucul 31 May 2021 17: 18
    -8
    "Meteor missile guarantees victory for Eurofighter": Bundeswehr on modern air combat

    The R-37M rocket looks at them with bewilderment)))
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 31 May 2021 17: 32
      +3
      China has a ramjet rocket .... it is a medium V-V rocket ... and it can be carried by both the Grippen and the F-16. And the R-37M is a specialized heavy missile. Only recently it was integrated into the Su35S. On the Su30SM it is not ... on the MiG35S too.
      1. lucul
        lucul 31 May 2021 17: 58
        0
        China has a ramjet rocket

        The question is in the launch range, and not which engine is worth)))
        It is not on Su30SM

        Su-30 SM will undergo modernization, they will be supplied with engines and avionics from the Su-35S, and will be adapted to the R-37M rocket.
        1. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 31 May 2021 18: 07
          -1
          The question is in the media ..... EF analogue of the MiG29 (MiG-35S) ......
          1. lucul
            lucul 31 May 2021 18: 10
            -2
            The question is in the media ..... EF analogue of the MiG29 (MiG-35S) ......

            Are you okay ? Maybe the sun is shining too brightly, or the phases of the moon are not the same there? ))))
            An article about the launch range of the Meteor rocket, which will provide their aircraft with guaranteed air superiority))))
            1. Zaurbek
              Zaurbek 31 May 2021 18: 13
              +2
              Meteor is a medium-range missile in weight .... Look in the mirror.
              1. lucul
                lucul 31 May 2021 18: 25
                -3
                Meteor is a medium-range missile in weight .... Look in the mirror.

                In general, I do not care what weight it is - it is stated that it is guaranteed to provide superiority, but it is not)))
                1. Zaurbek
                  Zaurbek 31 May 2021 20: 46
                  +1
                  I don't care, or don't care ... or all of your fighters shoot at 200 km ... or just the MiG31.
    2. Andylw
      Andylw 31 May 2021 17: 59
      +5
      The R-37M rocket

      is this a healthy fool in 600 kg, 4,5 meters long?
      1. lucul
        lucul 31 May 2021 18: 01
        -5
        is this a healthy fool in 600 kg, 4,5 meters long?

        So you have to pay for the launch range, don't you? ))))
        1. Andylw
          Andylw 31 May 2021 18: 06
          +2
          So you have to pay for the launch range, don't you? ))))

          well, a meteor is 3 times lighter and shorter by almost a meter
          and their range is close - 200 km
          1. lucul
            lucul 31 May 2021 18: 07
            +4
            well, a meteor is 3 times lighter and shorter by almost a meter
            and their range is close - 200 km

            Yeah, 400 km against 200 km)))) Comparable range, yeah))))
            1. Andylw
              Andylw 31 May 2021 18: 12
              -1
              400km vs 200km

              learn materiel
              maximum range of p-37M - 200 km
              it's a shame not to know
              1. lucul
                lucul 31 May 2021 18: 23
                +2
                learn materiel
                maximum range of p-37M - 200 km
                it's a shame not to know

                In the export version, yes, but for its troops 400 km. So learn the mathematical part according to our reference books, and not according to Western ones))))
                1. Andylw
                  Andylw 31 May 2021 18: 27
                  +3
                  Export version yes

                  by again
                  R-37m is not exported
                  ashamed
                  1. lucul
                    lucul 31 May 2021 18: 29
                    -1
                    by again
                    R-37m is not exported
                    ashamed

                    In addition to the P-37M, there is also just the P-37, with a similar range, but you probably haven't read about this in your western manuals)))))
                    1. Andylw
                      Andylw 31 May 2021 18: 35
                      +1
                      "there is also just R-37"
                      oh yes, is this the one that was made under Brezhnev?
                      okay ...
                      worthy rival
                      except for MiG-31 no one can lift this fool
                      1. lucul
                        lucul 31 May 2021 18: 49
                        -3
                        oh yes, is this the one that was made under Brezhnev?
                        okay ...
                        worthy rival
                        except for MiG-31 no one can lift this fool

                        So we will write down - incompetent.
                        Su-35S calmly pulls it, soon the modernization of the Su-30SM for it)))
                      2. Andylw
                        Andylw 31 May 2021 18: 57
                        +2
                        Su-35S calmly pulls it

                        this is RVV-BD with a range of 200 km
                        Let's write it down - incompetent

                        ashamed
                      3. lucul
                        lucul 31 May 2021 19: 00
                        -5
                        ashamed

                        I see you don't happen))))
                        The Su-35S was adapted primarily for the R-37, because the R-37M is a completely new rocket))))
                      4. Andylw
                        Andylw 31 May 2021 19: 08
                        +2
                        The Su-35S was adapted primarily for the P-37

                        in your dreams - maybe
                        but in reality - su35s carries r-37m
                        R-37M is a completely new rocket

                        of course new, r-37m, range 200 km
        2. sivuch
          sivuch 1 June 2021 14: 04
          0
          https://missilery.info/missile/r37
          Long range missile P-37 (RVV-BD)
          In the same 1989, began testing missiles with a guidance system (2 launches). In April 1994, an air target was successfully struck at a record range of 304 km. Rocket tests continued until 1997.
          Maximum launch range in faculty for certain types of targets, km 200 (300 for K37M)
          I will definitely pass it on to the authors of the site.
          1. Andylw
            Andylw 1 June 2021 14: 58
            +1
            I will definitely pass it on to the authors of the site

            don't work
            just go to the website of the Tactical Missile Armament Corporation - the manufacturer of the R-37m missile, and read its characteristics (range - up to 200 km)
            everything is in Russian there, do not be afraid
            it's not hard
            https://www.ktrv.ru/production/voennaya_produktsiya/rakety_klassa_-vozdukh-vozdukh/raketa_rvv-bd.html
            1. sivuch
              sivuch 1 June 2021 15: 14
              0
              Of course not difficult. As it turns out, reading carefully is much more difficult for some.
              For example, the table says about the RVV-BD missile, which is not the same thing with the R-37M.
              By the way, Karpenko writes about the 370 km range for the 37M. And the successful launch at 304 km even during the reign of Tsar Pea says a lot.
              1. Andylw
                Andylw 1 June 2021 15: 41
                +1
                I gave you a link to the data on the r-37m rocket (RVV-BD) from the official website of the developer and manufacturer of the rocket!
                and this is the data of the R-37M, which is now serially produced and is in service
                if you were in the subject, you would know that the mass and length of the rocket indicated on my link correspond exactly to the r-37m
                R-37 is almost 100 kg heavier and longer
                1. sivuch
                  sivuch 5 June 2021 07: 40
                  0
                  You are not in the subject. Otherwise, they would have known that RVV-BD is an export designation. Those. rockets going for export (or supposed for export). Their performance characteristics almost always differ for the worse from their own.
                  And you don't remember the tests in 1994 - why?
                2. Andylw
                  Andylw 5 June 2021 11: 53
                  0
                  RVV-DB have NEVER been exported
                  and here it is:
                  RVV-BD is an export designation

                  nonsense
                3. sivuch
                  sivuch 5 June 2021 12: 30
                  0
                  And without rudeness?
                  The rocket could be offered for export.
                4. Andylw
                  Andylw 5 June 2021 13: 25
                  0
                  and could not
                  it is not exported
  • Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 31 May 2021 18: 08
    0
    Carrier EF-2000 or Rafal ..... or MiG-35S
  • bk0010
    bk0010 31 May 2021 20: 24
    0
    Quote: AndyLW
    well, a meteor is 3 times lighter and shorter by almost a meter
    What about the price?
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 1 June 2021 10: 28
      +2
      In terms of prices, the Russian Federation is rapidly catching up with the West ...... Russian does not mean cheap anymore.
  • Gunther
    Gunther 31 May 2021 17: 37
    0
    Quote: Author
    “Meteor rocket guarantees Eurofighter victory,
    turning it into an air superiority fighter. "


    “-... caught, caught him, shouted Hans, grabbing his hands and feet like a tick in the paw of a bear
    -well caught, said the bear, gently lifting Hans by the scruff of his neck
    -further what? ..... "
  • Thrifty
    Thrifty 31 May 2021 17: 44
    +4
    In fact, time will tell, but against an obviously weak enemy it is good to use long-range weapons in order to minimize your losses in equipment and eliminate losses in manpower.
    1. Pandiurin
      Pandiurin 31 May 2021 18: 49
      +2
      Quote: Thrifty
      In fact, time will tell, but against an obviously weak enemy it is good to use long-range weapons in order to minimize your losses in equipment and eliminate losses in manpower.

      It makes sense to use long-range missiles against the weak, because although he really has a cheap outdated aircraft, there is a chance of losing his expensive one.

      But it makes even more sense against a strong opponent. Because he also has expensive equipment, but the result of the battle is no longer predictable. In addition, a strong enemy will be able to use long-range missiles.

      In total, we get that it makes sense to use long-range missiles always against any enemy, especially against a strong one.

      What then are short-range missiles for, they can be used as antimissiles.

      Why, then, long-range missiles if they are shot down by anti-missiles while approaching the target. It's all about probability.
      So it is necessary to extinguish targets with a large number of missiles.

      The conclusion is that it is necessary to fly in a large crowd so that the total number of missiles is much greater than that of the enemy and to use heavy UAV fighters as carriers of air-to-air missiles. those. not only quality is important, but also quantity, and superiority in quantity gives a qualitative advantage.
  • Herman 4223
    Herman 4223 31 May 2021 17: 48
    +1
    The first time I hear that a meteor at 200 km can be thrown, before the number was written in half less. But the rocket appears to be good.
  • Xlor
    Xlor 31 May 2021 17: 56
    -6
    The answer is simple ! Yes There will be many precedents

    In the last war - Karabakh - aviation, as far as I know, was not used. Can you give an example of the serious use of aviation since the end of the Vietnam War?
    1. lucul
      lucul 31 May 2021 18: 04
      -4
      Can you give an example of the serious use of aviation since the end of the Vietnam War?

      Were there serious wars between equal opponents? )))
      1. Xlor
        Xlor 31 May 2021 18: 15
        -4
        The Karabakh war, of course, does not reach the WWII, but aviation was not used in it
        1. lucul
          lucul 31 May 2021 18: 26
          -5
          The Karabakh war, of course, does not reach the WWII, but aviation was not used in it

          Do you equate a border conflict with a full-scale war? Nu-nu)))
          1. Xlor
            Xlor 31 May 2021 18: 34
            -1
            And it doesn't matter at all what kind of war it was. When there is a fight, then you don't really think about how to hit, with a fist or an iron crowbar - all means are good! However, neither the one nor the other side, aviation was not used. Why?
            1. lucul
              lucul 31 May 2021 18: 47
              -1
              However, neither the one nor the other side did not use aviation. Why?

              Because this is a border conflict, and these countries are microscopic in size - there is already a problem to take off, you immediately run into the border of another state, but you also need to gain height ..
        2. Pandiurin
          Pandiurin 31 May 2021 19: 51
          +5
          Quote: Xlor
          The Karabakh war, of course, does not reach the WWII, but aviation was not used in it

          Karabakh had no aviation.
          There were no large-scale hostilities between Armenia and Azerbaijan.
          Azerbaijan fought against Karabakh.
        3. alexmach
          alexmach 1 June 2021 10: 39
          +1
          but aviation was not used in it

          It was also used as a matter of fact.
          1. sivuch
            sivuch 1 June 2021 14: 18
            +1
            Still, quite limited. Azerbaijanis write about 500 BV
            1. alexmach
              alexmach 1 June 2021 14: 21
              0
              This is not counting drones, as I understand it?
              But yes, there really were no air battles. Probably in view of the multiple advantages of Azerbaijan.
              1. sivuch
                sivuch 1 June 2021 14: 30
                +1
                without them, of course. This is when they admitted the loss of the Su-25 (it suddenly turned out that sometimes it is necessary to throw ingots with a weighty warhead)
  • Marachuh
    Marachuh 31 May 2021 17: 58
    +1
    I remember the Americans already foresaw the wars of the future and abandoned the cannon armament of aircraft. And now the question is: how many "meteors" can Eurofather take? And how many, say, will it take short-range missiles? And what will happen when the "meteor" ends, and the enemy still has missiles?
    1. lucul
      lucul 31 May 2021 18: 05
      0
      I remember the Americans already foresaw the wars of the future

      Exactly, and for this they developed the SDI program))))
    2. alexmach
      alexmach 1 June 2021 10: 40
      +1
      I remember the Americans already foresaw the wars of the future and abandoned cannon armament

      Or maybe they were on the whole right and were just in a hurry? Did you just do it without reaching the required technological level?
  • Luminman
    Luminman 31 May 2021 18: 05
    0
    Quote: Marachuh
    I remember the Americans already foresaw the wars of the future and abandoned the cannon armament of aircraft

    Not only the Americans refused cannon armament. This fad was like that. Then changed their minds
  • Xlor
    Xlor 31 May 2021 18: 12
    0
    Quote: NF68
    Quote: Xlor
    There is one question - will the classic air battles, which were in the Second World War, be in future wars?


    If such missiles are being developed in many countries, then such missiles are also needed.

    I remember that battleships were also developed in all countries ...
    Fortifications such as the Maginot Line were also under construction. Also in almost all countries ...
    1. Luminman
      Luminman 31 May 2021 18: 19
      0
      You can also remember about chemical weapons, which remained in warehouses throughout the war, although great importance was attached to it in a future war!
  • Reserve buildbat
    Reserve buildbat 31 May 2021 19: 05
    0
    Okay. The range of 200 km is an indicator. Can you clarify the speed and overload? And if at 200 km the speed of this "meteor" is about 0, and the available overload is 0,00000 ..... g, then there is about the same sense in it.
    1. garri-lin
      garri-lin 31 May 2021 20: 14
      0
      200 km is the range with the engine running. If some publications do not lie. It turns out Meteor will be able to maneuver without losing speed.
  • voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 31 May 2021 19: 42
    +4
    The missile is wonderful, but you must first see the enemy in order to realize its increased range.
    And the Typhoon pilots complained at the joint NATO exercises that they already "see the F-35 in infrared optics, and the radar screen is empty."
    So you can't win air supremacy. smile
    1. bk0010
      bk0010 31 May 2021 20: 30
      0
      Quote: voyaka uh
      And the Typhoon pilots complained at the joint NATO exercises that they already "see the F-35 in infrared optics, and the radar screen is empty."
      And what's the problem? The MiG-29, for example, has the main optical system.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 31 May 2021 20: 49
        +2
        The problem is distance. Optical sights have several times less
        range than radars.
        And in a narrow aiming angle.
        This was the weakness of the MiG-29, by the way. They are for close combat only.
        Su-27s were detected and shot down by MiG-29s before they were noticed in
        Ethiopian-Eritrean War.
        1. nks
          nks 1 June 2021 13: 34
          0
          The problem in this case, Aleksey, is that you constantly (however, there are most of them here), talk about things in which you do not understand anything and even worse. In your example, the OLS had a greater range than the radar. The detection range depends on both the characteristics of the sensor and the target. Modern OLS operate at a range of BVR 100 + km, and the F-35 have a very noticeable optical signature. The OLS has problems (solvable) with determining (measuring) the range to the target, but not with the viewing angles. On the contrary - IR-GOS URVV have larger viewing angles than RL-GOS
          By the way, do not give a link, where did the Typhoon pilots say that?
      2. nks
        nks 1 June 2021 13: 35
        0
        Quote: bk0010
        The MiG-29, for example, has the main optical system.

        It is not.
    2. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock 1 June 2021 09: 14
      0
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Typhoon pilots complained at the joint NATO exercises that they already "see the F-35 in infrared optics, and the radar screen is blank."

      Firstly, the radars on Eurofighters are being changed.
      Secondly, our Su30 / 35 and MiG29 are far from being "penguins". They and old radars were well seen.
  • Wolf
    Wolf 31 May 2021 20: 42
    0
    I’m not a pilot, but a libertine, but it seems to me that the discussion is so little childish?
    On one side, they talk about the long-range Meteor explosive missile, and then they direct the turning speed of M1 and M2.
    SIMPLE LOGIC IF THEIR ADVANTAGE OF A RANGE ROCKET WHAT IS THE TURN SPEED FOR? WHAT THEY WILL IN THE M1 TURN WILL LAUNCH A FAR ROCKET?

    IDEALS CARRIER OF MIG 31, SU57 (SU35S) AND F22 RANGE ROCKETS, NO TYPHOON, RAPHAL, F16, F35.
    SUPPLYING A RANGE ROCKET ON A TYPHOON IS LIKE TO SUPPLY A BREAST ON A CHICKEN IF GOING TO A BATTLE WITH AN EQUAL OPPONENT.
    If they consider that the turning speed of the M1 is their advantage, then they consider a dog fight, and in a dog fight they eat a few examples from practice, even with the Indians and in the USA, the result of the dogs in the fight was about 10: 0, and they eat examples with FRENCH, they are scary by planes and approximately the same score, honored pilot Rusie and now be active.
    One of the pilots genetically the best were and remain OURS - Prusi, Luzhchki Serbs, Polaki, Rus (Belarus and Ukrainians are here too), Hungary, even part of Bulgars and part of Rumuns.
    But in fact, the battle will be close to retko, AT THE MIDDLE RANGE THERE WILL BE A HEAD OF BATTLE, at a long distance an explosive missile against a super-maneuverable SU 35S or SU 30 has LITTLE CHANCES for success for various reasons
    At the same time, it will be important for OCHIM how many missiles are there, and in WHAT COMBINATIONS CAN THE AIRCRAFT CARRY?
    Here F35 is clearly lost!
    The post is clearly a PROPAGANDA FOR CHILDREN DOES NOT HAVE TRUE FROM REALITY!
    1. Wolf
      Wolf 31 May 2021 21: 06
      0
      On this world, everything moves, nothing stands still, and so is the air battle from WWII, WWII, and today. PMV - dog "cocker spaniel", WWII dog "Pete Bulovski", today almost hectares will not have passed time, long-range battle 4 world war.
  • Vlad Pervovich
    Vlad Pervovich 31 May 2021 21: 15
    +2
    but what about the "KS-172"? myth?
    Well, yes, the size is decent, but the range ... 400 !!! repeat
    1. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock 1 June 2021 09: 18
      0
      Quote: Vlad Pervovich
      but what about the "KS-172"? myth?

      No, not a myth.
      But not reality either.
      Not so long ago, here at VO we discussed this.
      KS-172 was made by an air defense company, and this is a different department. Therefore, the "pilots" chose the P-37, worse, but from the right people.
  • CastroRuiz
    CastroRuiz 31 May 2021 22: 12
    0
    Meteor is a very good PRVD rocket with excellent parameters.
  • sivuch
    sivuch 31 May 2021 22: 22
    +3
    Of course, Meteor, or rather, its engine, has a serious advantage - a much longer operating time. But there are also questions - how the direct flow will work at high angles of attack
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 1 June 2021 10: 32
      0
      In the case of a ramjet, the traditional taxiway works for a while and then turns off, then - Inertia .... A ramjet gives thrust all the time and at the end sections such missiles are faster. (Therefore, GP missiles are a difficult target for missile defense)
      1. sivuch
        sivuch 1 June 2021 14: 22
        0
        That's why they came up with 2 and even 3 regime DRM. And, perhaps, this is a better solution than direct flow.
        Four K-37Ms are suspended in two pairs one after another under the MiG-31BM fuselage. At launch, the rocket is first thrown down from the aircraft with the help of the AKU-410-1 catapult installation, and then the dual-mode solid-fuel engine is launched.
        1. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 1 June 2021 15: 17
          -1
          The direct flow takes oxygen from the air ... and therefore, weighs less and has a smaller radius
  • Safron
    Safron 31 May 2021 22: 28
    -3
    All planes with crosses and pilots found their place along the way and these will find their place in the ground.
  • Synoid
    Synoid 1 June 2021 02: 16
    0
    Shield and sword. Aircraft protection does not stand still either.
    Firstly, on these 200 kilometers, it is still necessary to detect the target, which, with the well-coordinated work of the jammers, will not be a trivial task.
    Secondly, the very noise immunity of the missile homing head.
  • Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 1 June 2021 09: 29
    +3
    It's funny to read the discussion here.
    Kindergarten at the matinee.
    For some reason, "theirs" Meteor must not fly, miss it, will be shot down on approach by our interceptor missiles (are there any such missiles?).
    But our missiles will definitely fly, they will definitely hit, and immediately after the "their" plane has time to turn on its radar and before it has time to release its missiles, they will teleport in no other way.
    Thank you comrades, they made me laugh.
    1. sivuch
      sivuch 1 June 2021 14: 25
      0
      And if missiles from both sides miss, then it will come ... no, not a fox, but a BVB in its classic form.
    2. sivuch
      sivuch 1 June 2021 14: 41
      -1
      Or maybe you will write who exactly wrote such nonsense? I haven't found anything like that. That there are electronic warfare containers in the world (in particular, against the GOS) and towed traps is a sacred truth. But that only enemy missiles will be smeared - I have not found such a thing.
      There are no interceptors yet (although the Americans at one time strongly promoted CUDA). By the way, just in this case, Meteor will be in a losing position - it has a much higher RCS.
  • Pavel57
    Pavel57 1 June 2021 10: 10
    +1
    Meteor modern rocket. Some pluses besides the altitude due to the ramjet engine.
    1. sivuch
      sivuch 1 June 2021 14: 27
      0
      Dv, modern, and a lot of pluses. But how its engine will work at high angles of attack is another question. Just do not have to answer that once they have adopted it, then it is normal.
  • Tektor
    Tektor 1 June 2021 11: 28
    +2
    This is a real moment of lagging behind our VKS. After all, for 3-4 years there have been talks about the need to finance the domestic RVV with the RVV-AE-PD ramjet engine.

    but everything went off into a whistle. But the peculiarity of this rocket is that the longer it traveled and burned fuel, the more maneuverable, faster and angrier it becomes, in contrast to rockets with other engines. That is, at long distances it becomes more murderous, more effective.
    According to known data, the RVV-AE-PD rocket has a body with a length of 3700 mm and wings with air intakes. The mass of the rocket is greater than that of the R-77 missiles in service and is 225 kg. The missile speed is Mach 5, the range is up to 180 km.
    1. sivuch
      sivuch 1 June 2021 14: 52
      0
      I'm not sure if direct flow is a panacea, perhaps a dual-mode engine (as on the R-37M) is the best solution.
      The performance characteristics of the R-37M are not disclosed, it is only known that its design is made according to a normal aerodynamic configuration with a low aspect ratio wing. The rocket weighs more than 500 kilograms, the high-explosive fragmentation warhead weighs 60 kilograms. On the final leg of the flight, the rocket is accelerated to a hypersonic speed of Mach 6.
      Source: http://nevskii-bastion.ru/rvv-bd/ VTS "NEVSKY BASTION" AVKarpenko
  • sivuch
    sivuch 1 June 2021 14: 15
    0
    https://missilery.info/missile/meteor
    Meteor long-range aircraft missile
    The use of a ramjet engine provides an increase in the average trajectory flight speed of the rocket and the firing range. According to advertising materials, the maximum range of the rocket reaches 150 km.
    Maximum firing range, km> 100
    Maximum flight speed, M 4.5
    By the way, MBDA is modestly silent about the maximum range, while other sources vaguely write about 100 plus.
  • Pavel57
    Pavel57 1 June 2021 14: 51
    +1
    Quote: Tektor
    But the peculiarity of this rocket is that the longer it traveled and burned fuel, the more maneuverable, faster and angrier it becomes, in contrast to rockets with other engines.

    It's like, especially about meaner.
  • Ilya_Nsk
    Ilya_Nsk 2 June 2021 07: 48
    0
    Americans (the editor excludes another word for some reason) also wanted to win with missiles in Vietnam, then the guns in containers had to be hung up .. interference, for example? Yes, be it at least with a photon engine .. She is the goal as "sees"? On the radio? in the IR range? Combined? Oh, this dream about the wunderwaffe