Military Review

"Dangerous enemy with old missiles": Turkish press on the use of the Su-35 fighter in Syria

87

The Russian Su-35S aircraft is the culmination of the development of the fourth generation fighters. However, despite its excellent combat characteristics, it continues to be equipped with outdated missile weapons.


This opinion is expressed on the pages of Defense Turkey.

As the author explains, after the Russian Air Force's Su-24M was shot down on 2015 November 24 by a Turkish aviation allegedly "for violating the country's airspace", a group of four Su-35S was sent from the Russian Federation to Syria. They were responsible for escorting aircraft used to bombard enemy positions.

The most striking element of these operations was that the plane was equipped with old R-27 missiles instead of the new R-77. This suggests that the problems with the R-77 were not completely resolved, and the Russians, who could not risk in a possible conflict, preferred to fly with old missiles.

- indicated in the Turkish press about the use of the machine in Syria.

As the author explains, the Su-35S, which was also purchased by China and Egypt, was repeatedly offered to Turkey after it was excluded from the F-35 project. So, he participated in the Teknofest 2019 exhibition and performed demonstration flights in Istanbul.

The Su-35S has high maneuverability, excellent aerodynamic characteristics and powerful engines. This is a very dangerous enemy for all aircraft in close air combat. With the ability to fly at super cruising speeds, powerful radar, electronic warfare systems and long-range missiles, it is capable of effectively fighting beyond line of sight. Thanks to these characteristics, it can easily provide superiority over all existing 4th generation aircraft.

- noted in Defense Turkey.
87 comments
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  1. TermNachTer
    TermNachTer 30 May 2021 20: 15
    +22
    When did Turkey start producing long-range air-to-air missiles?))))
    1. Flashpoint
      Flashpoint 30 May 2021 20: 22
      +14
      In a bright and distant future.
      But Turks are ambitious and purposeful. They try. They lack technology, a scientific base, the industry is lagging behind (so it seems and not much that). In places. The fleet is being built, on the other hand, more than 60-70% of the systems are of Turkish-made frigates there. There are reasons to be proud.
      I must say aselsan is working better. Already got to the F-16.
      1. Kaman
        Kaman 31 May 2021 12: 55
        -2
        Let the Turkm take SU-35. So the Turkish neighbors will be calmer
    2. cniza
      cniza 30 May 2021 20: 56
      +7
      Quote: TermNachTER
      When did Turkey start producing long-range air-to-air missiles?))))


      So far in my dreams, but their successes are impressive ...
      1. TermNachTer
        TermNachTer 30 May 2021 21: 16
        +11
        Will they shoot with successes?))) When they can do something similar, then let them talk about "old stuff". Moreover, against their old stuff, the capabilities of the "R - 27" are enough "for the eyes".
        1. Mountain shooter
          Mountain shooter 30 May 2021 22: 08
          +5
          Quote: TermNachTER
          Moreover, against their old stuff, the capabilities of "R - 27" are enough "for the eyes

          Exactly! They thought that the P-27 would be enough for the Turkish Air Force ... So there is nothing to fiddle with. laughing
          1. TermNachTer
            TermNachTer 30 May 2021 22: 28
            +7
            The Turks are trying to "embrace the immensity." We have built an aircraft carrier, but there are no carrier-based aircraft and there won't be any in the near future. We made a tank, but there is no engine for it. We made a helicopter, but the engines are mattress. They made a UAV, but the electronics and engines for it are not Turkish. Gathered a canal to dig))) but if sclerosis does not change me, the Montreux convention regulates the regime of both straits, and not only the Bosphorus. However, even if only one Bosphorus is "bypassed" - this is millions of tons of rocky soil. Success to them - in their hopeless enterprise.
          2. Kuroneko
            Kuroneko 31 May 2021 02: 17
            +14
            It is more likely that it is more profitable for us to dispose of the old. Hence the use of conventional FABs from the Soviet backlog.
            1. akarfoxhound
              akarfoxhound 31 May 2021 09: 12
              +6
              And the P-27 actually needs to be finished off for the residual resource, and the P-77 is not used in daily patrols, not because of its low reliability or "small" quantity. The issue of operating the R-27 instead of the R-77 without conducting combat operations in the air is purely technical. There will be no details. If those who consider the R-77 ineffective and low-reliable - in air battles, as Vinokur said: "there will be a surprise"
        2. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 31 May 2021 15: 20
          -1
          Quote: TermNachTER
          Moreover, against their old stuff, the capabilities of the "R - 27" are enough "for the eyes".

          Are you serious now?
          The era of RVV with PA RLGSN ended in the 80s. Then, during exercises in the United States, it was established that the effective launch range of the Sparrow did not exceed the launch range of the Sidewinder. The reason is simple - at distances over 10 km, the on-board electronic warfare systems repeatedly failed the capture.
          1. Hexenmeister
            Hexenmeister 31 May 2021 16: 53
            +1
            The reason is simple - at distances over 10 km, the on-board electronic warfare systems repeatedly failed the capture.
            Failure of the capture in what place? The seeker loses its target, so with the same success it will lose the target from electronic warfare and the head with active radar guidance, therefore they are taught to aim at the jammer, and here they already write that now the 27ER can be aimed at the jammer. Disruption of the capture at the radar - so on the Su-35 it is not at all N-001 produced in 1985, where did you get the idea that the Irbis cannot accompany the jammer in the corners ???
          2. TermNachTer
            TermNachTer 31 May 2021 17: 37
            0
            And what kind of electronic warfare systems are on the Turkish F - 16? Moreover, the "highlight" will be the Su - 35, and it has a "be healthy" radar.
      2. Vita vko
        Vita vko 30 May 2021 21: 49
        -2
        Quote: cniza
        While in dreams, but their successes are impressive.

        Their successes are primarily due to the fact that all Turkish military-industrial complex enterprises are headed by officers and generals of the reserve, and not as our "effective managers". Turkey has a problem that scientific and technical personnel study and educate in Western scientific schools, which not only degraded, but also try to limit the Turkish military-industrial complex. And "fresh blood" that can give impetus to development in the form of a brain drain from the post-Soviet space to Turkey is not strives.
        Therefore, while Turkey will cultivate its ambitions, it will remain on the outskirts, neither the mentality, the wrong resources. And the bragging about the fact that it was possible to shoot down a bomber with a fighter, and even on guidance from AWACS, and even from an ambush at low altitudes, only says that the Turkish F-16s are no longer capable of more. After the wars in Yugoslavia and Iraq, they got used to impunity. For example, there is not even a normal radar field over Turkey, all aviation control is carried out on secondary radars of a semi-civilian modification. In real combat work, you have to use leased AWACS aircraft.
        1. Albay
          Albay 30 May 2021 22: 41
          +3
          The successes are primarily due to the fact that all Turkish military-industrial complex enterprises are headed by officers and generals of the reserve, and not as our "effective managers".

          This is absolutely not the case. These companies are mainly led by entrepreneurs and engineers.
          Turkey has a problem that scientific and technical personnel study and educate in Western scientific schools, which not only degraded, but also try to limit the Turkish military-industrial complex.
          also not quite so, in Turkey there is an education system at the world level and there are quite a few engineers who graduated from local universities. They have enough brains at this stage.
          1. Artavazdych
            Artavazdych 30 May 2021 23: 47
            -1
            I don’t know about Turkish entrepreneurs and engineers, but the literacy of the person who wrote this somehow does not inspire confidence.
            But seriously, a group of Turks studied with us on the course. MEPhI, mid-nineties. The level was insufficient to match the brand of the university. The shortcomings of pre-university training affected. This is according to our teachers - nothing from myself.
          2. Vita vko
            Vita vko 31 May 2021 03: 58
            +5
            Quote: Albay
            This is absolutely not the case. These companies are mainly led by entrepreneurs and engineers.

            There are different levels of government. In production, most are civilians. But in the council of shareholders. where the main share belongs to the state, all the former military.
            Quote: Albay
            also not quite so, in Turkey there is an education system at the world level and there are quite a few engineers who graduated from local universities. They have enough brains at this stage.

            Science is not driven by former students, even if they are excellent students with 2 or 3 honors. For the development of science-intensive technologies, we need science schools... If you understand, then these are far from national teams working on state grants and kickbacks.
            1. Albay
              Albay Yesterday, 22: 29
              0
              вот в совете акционеров. где основная доля принадлежит государству, все бывшие военные.

              Это абсалютно не так,нет в турецких крупных компания акционеров бывших военных.Это фантазии.Только бизнесмены управляют компаниями.Поскольку военная служба обьязательна для всех граждан,то обычно это бывшие срочники.
              Науку двигают не бывшие студенты, пусть даже отличники с 2мя или 3мя красными дипломами. Для развития наукоемких технологий нужны научные школы. Если понимаете, то это далеко не сборные команды работающие на гос.грандах и откатах.

              Так в Турции есть научные школы и давно.
              1. Vita vko
                Vita vko Today, 06: 58
                0
                Quote: Albay
                Это абсалютно не так,нет в турецких крупных компания акционеров бывших военных

                Я лично встречался с турецкими генералами в отставке, которые представляли государственные интересы в компаниях Aselsan и Roketsan. И достаточно подробно изучал не только управление ОПК Турции, но и технологии их предприятий в 10 - 11 годах. Не думаю,что за последние 10 лет что то там серьезно изменилось. Как вы вообще представляете взаимодействие оборонных компаний и государства? Это вам не турецкий базар. Там все под контролем и на порядок строже. Ни в одной стране мира военные производства, да и любые другие не развиваются сами по себе. Все определяет заказчик. А ВПК главные заказчик это военные собственной страны.
                Quote: Albay
                Так в Турции есть научные школы и давно

                Вы ученый? Вы представляете что это? В мире всего несколько стран имеющие научные школы, которые обеспечивают им устойчивое лидерство в отдельных технологических областях. Даже Китай не может этим похвастаться.
          3. Petrik66
            Petrik66 1 June 2021 09: 45
            0
            Two Kyrgyz engineers worked for me, both graduated from the Technical University in Ankara, if I'm not mistaken. studied for free as part of the assistance program. The level of both was very good. after working for two years we went to the Renaissance construction. Let's just say, in relation to their peers from Russia, they were slightly higher in preparation.
    3. RealPilot
      RealPilot 30 May 2021 21: 04
      +10
      On the other hand, do you need a new generation of missiles to fight the F-16?
      The Russian Aerospace Forces put up equipment adequate to the threats ...
      1. mvg
        mvg 31 May 2021 08: 12
        -7
        new generation missiles are needed to fight the F-16

        Did they fill up the F-16s a lot with new or old missiles? Comparable, at least dozens of times, how many F-16s were driven by MiG-21/23/25/29 and Mirages
    4. Rageee
      Rageee 30 May 2021 21: 07
      -9
      will you get spiirva? some kind of childish thinking)
    5. venik
      venik 30 May 2021 21: 50
      +11
      Quote: TermNachTER
      When did Turkey start producing long-range air-to-air missiles?))))

      =======
      Yes, not soon! The question is that the Turks did not understand that these are missiles of a DIFFERENT class! The R-77 is a medium-range missile (up to 80 km), and the "old" R-27 - (in the "large" version) - hits 130 km !!! (while having an awesome maneuverability and speed of Mach 4.5!).
      PS By the way, the Yankees (with their advanced technologies) are also still modifying the old Sparrow (with different names) and do not see anything shameful in that! What to do? Successful design - it is successful! From goodness - they do not seek goodness! (This is me about R-27!)
      1. Elena Zakharova
        Elena Zakharova 30 May 2021 22: 44
        +1
        R-77 - medium-range missile (up to 80 km)

        R-77 hits 110 km.
        1. venik
          venik 31 May 2021 00: 33
          0
          Quote: Elena Zakharova
          R-77 hits 110 km.

          =====
          Well, this is probably RVV-SD !?
          1. Nikolaevich I
            Nikolaevich I 31 May 2021 00: 47
            +2
            Quote: venik
            R-77 hits 110 km.

            =====
            Well, this is probably RVV-SD !?

            There is also such a name! Upgraded R-77 ... type R-77M ... type K-77-1 ...
      2. Kostya Lavinyukov
        Kostya Lavinyukov 30 May 2021 22: 46
        +2
        The Americans seem to have been in service with the AIM-30 for about 120 years. And the main issue is not speed, but electronics.
        1. venik
          venik 31 May 2021 00: 49
          0
          Quote: Kostya Lavinyukov
          The Americans seem to have been in service with the AIM-30 for about 120 years. And the main issue is not speed, but electronics.

          ======
          Well, and what about me?
          PS If the construction is successful, then the "brains" to the rocket can be different stick! And it's not as difficult as it might seem! Trust me!
          PPS But in fact ... AMRAAM AIM-120 is nothing more than a modification of the good old AIM-7 "Sparrow" development (do not believe it! - 1947 years!!!). It was first used in Vietnam !!!! And the AIM-120 is just a modification with new "brains" ....
      3. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 31 May 2021 02: 31
        +2
        Quote: venik
        The R-77 is a medium-range missile (up to 80 km), and the "old" R-27 - (in the "large" version) - hits 130 km !!!

        R-77M-range up to 110 km ... R-27 with a range of up to 130 km is R-27E (indeed, the "longest" (heavy) R-27 ...) "Regular" R-27> range up to 110 km or even less ... up to 70-80 km ...
    6. SSR
      SSR 30 May 2021 22: 22
      +2
      Quote: TermNachTER
      When did Turkey start producing long-range air-to-air missiles?))))

      When did Turkey become a specialist in fighters and missiles?
      In times and customs.
    7. Azimuth
      Azimuth 31 May 2021 09: 37
      -1
      Something about their testing of medium-range missiles of their own design.
      And now no one has long-range air-to-air missiles at all, only our MiG-31 missiles. Our geography and distances are unparalleled, vast territories are essentially undeveloped, hence the need for such aviation complexes.
    8. VyacheSeymour
      VyacheSeymour 31 May 2021 10: 56
      0
      When did Turkey start producing long-range air-to-air missiles?))))

      The video shows a Turkish-made air-to-air missile with a launch range of 25 and 80 km. At such a pace and something more powerful will not be long in coming ...

  2. Sasha from Uralmash
    Sasha from Uralmash 30 May 2021 20: 20
    +3
    Turks are not friends! Reading their nonsense is nonsense!
    1. mole
      mole 30 May 2021 20: 36
      +12
      Quote: Sasha from Uralmash
      Turks are not friends! Reading their nonsense is nonsense!

      Who are the friends?
      Except for the Army and the Navy? "We have stood and will stand on that!"
    2. Alexey Sommer
      Alexey Sommer 30 May 2021 20: 38
      +6
      Quote: Sasha from Uralmash
      Turks are not friends! Reading their nonsense is nonsense!

      Well, you read it ...)
      They also commented.
      No?)
    3. lucul
      lucul 30 May 2021 21: 03
      +6
      Turks are not friends! Reading their nonsense is nonsense!

      You should always be able to distinguish between healthy criticism and falsehood.
      In this case, the Turks are partly right. It seems that ours have decided to dispose of all the old weapons in Syria.
  3. Aviator_
    Aviator_ 30 May 2021 20: 21
    +8
    the ability to fly at super cruising speeds,

    Well, after celebrating the capture of Constantinople (568 years ago it was taken), the Turks decided to invent a new speed for the fighter. However, maybe such a googl translation, then it belongs to the competence of the editor, more precisely, to his unprofessionalism.
    1. Alexey Stepanov
      Alexey Stepanov 30 May 2021 20: 27
      +5
      Apparently, super cruising speed is supersonic speed without afterburner.
    2. Avior
      Avior 30 May 2021 20: 40
      +6
      This is a tracing paper from the English supercruise - literally super cruising speed.
      Supersonic cruising speed.
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 30 May 2021 20: 59
        +6
        So I say: the editor - for soap with such a translation.
        1. TermNachTer
          TermNachTer 30 May 2021 21: 13
          +7
          Do not shoot a taper - he plays as he can))))
  4. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 30 May 2021 20: 22
    0
    Wholesale buyers get a discount .....
  5. Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 30 May 2021 20: 30
    +12
    equipped with old R-27 missiles instead of new R-77

    Strange logic - in the conflict in a third world country, new missiles should be used against the barmaley and near-barmaley? And what's the catch, the old ones will iron it out the same way. A new sample could fall into the hands of the enemy - fragmentarily or even entirely (after all, anything can happen), and so they clean the warehouses and get rid of old stuff and carry out the task - a solid profit.
    1. Alexey Stepanov
      Alexey Stepanov 30 May 2021 20: 36
      +12
      And the barmaleev has a lot of aviation against which the R-27 can be used? belay
      1. Knell wardenheart
        Knell wardenheart 30 May 2021 20: 51
        -1
        R-27 provides interception of aircraft and UAVs in long-range and close air combat, as well as cruise missiles
        (c) Wikipedia
        Specifically, the Barmaley may have a UAV, and due to the limitations of their characteristics, the old rocket would also go along the CD - they would have been discovered in time.
        I do not think that using any air-to-air missiles against any manned aircraft in this region other than the Syrian one would be a good idea for us.
    2. Rageee
      Rageee 30 May 2021 21: 27
      -8
      new missiles confuse you, but do not the s400 and su-35 in Syria bother you? laughing
      1. Knell wardenheart
        Knell wardenheart 30 May 2021 22: 15
        +5
        The C-400 was deployed to protect a multi-billion dollar military facility. It is quite logical - the radars are working, the calculations are being studied in a near-combat situation. There are no such hot spots on the territory of the Russian Federation, on the borders, in general, the same. In the hotter spots of military bases, we do not have characteristics similar to Khmeimim, so the transfer of the S-400 is quite logical.
        The Su-35 is an aircraft that has been in service for 7 years already, and has been flying for 13 years. I don’t know where it’s new - it’s a polished product, already of a fairly large party membership. The product is also operated by foreign customers (China) - there is nothing to secret, the plane has already become a workhorse.
        1. Elena Zakharova
          Elena Zakharova 30 May 2021 22: 48
          +1
          large party membership

          I am laughing!
          1. Knell wardenheart
            Knell wardenheart 31 May 2021 01: 17
            +4
            For our defense industry, 100+ products and exporting this is a manifestation of large party membership. Well, not IL-2, well, sorry :-)
            1. Elena Zakharova
              Elena Zakharova 2 June 2021 23: 04
              0
              And what is his partisanship?
              Liberal or communist?
              Maybe with a bias towards the monarchy?

              I read you and it's funny to me))
    3. Elena Zakharova
      Elena Zakharova 30 May 2021 22: 46
      +3
      R-77 began to be made in Ukraine.
      They have long since sold all the secrets to amers.
      Therefore, there was a delay in the production of Vympel ....
    4. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 31 May 2021 15: 33
      +1
      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      Strange logic - in the conflict in a third world country, new missiles should be used against the barmaley and near-barmaley?

      We read carefully:
      As the author explains, after the Su-24M of the Russian Air Force was shot down by Turkish aircraft on November 2015, 24, allegedly "for violating the country's airspace," a group of four Su-35S was sent from the Russian Federation to Syria. They were responsible for escorting aircraft used to bombard enemy positions.

      That is, the P-27 was planned to be used not against the Barmaley, but against the Turkish Air Force. Which, according to Aunt Vika, have the third largest fleet of F-16s in the world. Moreover, the level is Block 50+.
      And then we fly out so beautiful, having on the suspensions of the RVV with semi-active radar seeker - to deal with which the United States and NATO learned 40 years ago.
      1. Knell wardenheart
        Knell wardenheart 31 May 2021 17: 55
        0
        And again, about zero logic - Filippov was shot down from a MANPADS. Like waiting for the Turks to get a taste? Strange
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 31 May 2021 19: 15
          0
          Quote: Knell Wardenheart
          And again, about zero logic - Filippov was shot down from a MANPADS. Like waiting for the Turks to get a taste? Strange

          And what has Filippov to do with it? We are talking about Peshkov and Murakhtin - it was their Su-24M that was shot down on November 24.11.2015, 16 by the Sidewinder from the Turkish F-XNUMXC.
          Everything is logical - the Su-35S were sent as a response to the attack of our Su-24M by a Turkish fighter.

          In short, "hello, Afghanistan" - in the 80s, in the same way, we had to urgently organize the cover of our IBA in Afghanistan by fighters when working near the border with the packs.
  6. anjey
    anjey 30 May 2021 20: 30
    -1
    The "old horse" does not spoil the furrows, it is difficult to get away from the R-27, the RGSN builds a trajectory to the lead point of the target.
    The most striking element of these operations was that the plane was equipped with old R-27 missiles instead of the new R-77.
  7. Lawyer1
    Lawyer1 30 May 2021 20: 32
    -6
    "... shot down by Turkish aircraft, allegedly" for violating the country's airspace ... "
    Why does the author of this post use the word "ostensibly", and puts the violation of airspace in quotation marks? Even Putin has in effect admitted that there has been an unintentional violation of Turkish airspace.
    1. Mitroha
      Mitroha 30 May 2021 21: 31
      +2
      Quote: Lawyer1
      "... shot down by Turkish aircraft, allegedly" for violating the country's airspace ... "
      Why does the author of this post use the word "ostensibly", and puts the violation of airspace in quotation marks? Even Putin has in effect admitted that there has been an unintentional violation of Turkish airspace.

      Because you lie
  8. kit88
    kit88 30 May 2021 20: 38
    +18

    And what is it at 04 board at the 12th point hanging?
    Isn't the R-77 accidental?
    1. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 30 May 2021 20: 58
      +6
      Quote: kit88
      And what is it at 04 board at the 12th point hanging?

      It is possible to compare:
      - plumage consists of four folding lattice consoles with high supersonic quality and low hinge moment - 1,5 kg * m;
      Content source: https://naukatehnika.com/raketa-vozdux-vozdux-r-77.html
      naukatehnika.com


      Original:
  9. Pavel57
    Pavel57 30 May 2021 20: 42
    +7
    The Su-35 in Syria flew with the R-77, and the Su-30 with the R-27ER.
    The photo shows the Su-35 with the R-77 and R-27ET.
    The R-27 family is of course outdated. Rockets are known to everyone, studied far and wide. The interference protection is no longer sufficient.
    1. Mitroha
      Mitroha 30 May 2021 21: 33
      0
      Quote: Pavel57
      The Su-35 in Syria flew with the R-77, and the Su-30 with the R-27ER.
      The photo shows the Su-35 with the R-77 and R-27ET.
      The R-27 family is of course outdated. Rockets are known to everyone, studied far and wide. The interference protection is no longer sufficient.

      Studied by the Barmaley? For each his own. And what might need to be destroyed in the air, no one could predict
      1. Rageee
        Rageee 30 May 2021 21: 50
        +11
        but what have you all set against the barmaley, against the brameleev .. what have they got to do with it? if in your opinion this is all against them, then su-35s are generally not needed there, they can be bombed with impunity even from a flying broom, the main thing is not to go below 5 km))
        It’s a no brainer that the Su-35 and S-400 were deployed there not against the barmaley, but against the likely provocations of partners, so that there was something to scare or answer if necessary ..
    2. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 31 May 2021 01: 51
      +2
      Quote: Pavel57
      The R-27 family is of course outdated.

      Obsolete, something outdated .... But relatively recently there was a message from the Ministry of Defense about the modernization of the R-27 family!
      First of all, the onboard electronics of the rocket - the autopilot and the GOS - have been modernized. Due to this, the procedure of target acquisition and further shooting is simplified. Some tasks are solved by automation, which reduces the load on the pilot and simplifies piloting as a whole. Modes of operation of the GOS are saved. Missiles will be able to be guided to a radio source in the form of a radar or jamming station, or hit an object highlighted by the onboard radar of the carrier.

      In order to improve the flight performance, the modernization project uses a new solid fuel charge for the rocket engine. The result is an increased energy potential, which can be used to increase the mass or increase the speed and range of flight.
      According to the latest reports, the new project provides for a major upgrade of guidance systems. It should be expected that this will lead to an increase in the target detection and tracking range. An increase in the likelihood of hitting a target should also be expected due to improved accuracy. After the proposed modernization, the R-27 missiles will be able to fight all major types of aircraft. With their help, it will be possible to effectively destroy aircraft of all classes, including modern fifth-generation fighters, unmanned aerial vehicles and cruise missiles.
      Although ... I suspect that all this "blah blah blah" is not from the "good life"!
  10. Redfox3k
    Redfox3k 30 May 2021 20: 46
    +9
    And nothing that the P-77 is on the photo? And from the R-27 family, the R-27R itself has long been removed from service, and its further modifications are ER and ET. Moreover, ET is the most long-range V-V missile with TGSN in the world.
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 31 May 2021 02: 12
      +3
      Quote: Redfox3k
      the R-27R itself has long been removed from service, and its further modifications, the ER and ET, are worth it.

      The letter "E" means "only" ,, energetic ,,! That is, a larger diameter engine has been added ... It is the R-27E that have a range of up to 130 km! Other R-27s have a range, depending on the modification, up to 75 km or up to 110 km ...
  11. Klingon
    Klingon 30 May 2021 20: 56
    +5
    Quote: Sasha from Uralmash
    Turks are not friends! Reading their nonsense is nonsense!

    neglecting information about the awareness of potential adversaries can be costly.
    don't underestimate the turks
  12. Marachuh
    Marachuh 30 May 2021 21: 28
    +4
    Every gopher is an agronomist. Now this missile also has the wrong system
  13. The comment was deleted.
  14. Mitroha
    Mitroha 30 May 2021 21: 37
    +1
    Quote: Klingon
    Quote: Sasha from Uralmash
    Turks are not friends! Reading their nonsense is nonsense!

    neglecting information about the awareness of potential adversaries can be costly.
    don't underestimate the turks

    I agree. But you shouldn't exaggerate either.
    They will be more reliable in reality hi
  15. Herman 4223
    Herman 4223 30 May 2021 21: 43
    -2
    And what is bad about p-27? For me, it's just different calibers, each of which has its own merits. Like 7,62 and 5,45 for machines. The Turkish author is simply not in the know, although she is older than the p-77, she has a number of advantages. Firstly, a more powerful warhead 39 kg versus 22. Secondly, it is the aiming head that sees the target better. It's just that the rocket is larger in diameter, and this is important for the guidance head. The R-27 can capture a target with an RCS of 3m2 at a distance of 25 km, and the R-77 only at 16 km and with RCS of 5 m2.
    R-77 it is more compact, lighter, cheaper.
  16. bars1
    bars1 30 May 2021 21: 54
    +4
    Quote: Herman 4223
    And what is bad about p-27?

    The fact that it is equipped with an outdated semi-active RGSN. The fighter's radar should illuminate the target until the missile hits it, which constrains the fighter to maneuver. In the United States, for example, such missiles have long been removed from service. No need to pass off need as a benefactor!
    1. Osipov9391
      Osipov9391 30 May 2021 23: 46
      +4
      Do not forget where the R-27 was made and the heads for them. In Kiev. There, the West studied everything up and down. No interference immunity, the fighter must "illuminate" the target until it hits.
      So with the radar turned on, he unmasks himself by being stealth a hundred times.
      35-50 km. Here is the range at which it can be launched in combat conditions, and then if it is a transport aircraft or a drone.
      If this is a fighter, then its pilot, upon notification from the PDF, will immediately turn on the afterburner and leave this missile.
      I started active guidance and forgot it. That is good. At least the rocket carrier after the launch can leave and not unmask himself with the work of the radar. And then there can be no range of 90-100 km.
      If only what trainee gets who does not look at the STR at all. And these systems on western aircraft are a cut higher than ours.
    2. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 31 May 2021 01: 59
      0
      Quote: bars1
      The fact that it is equipped with an outdated semi-active RGSN. The fighter's radar should illuminate the target until the missile hits it, which constrains the fighter to maneuver.

      There are R-27 modifications: 1.with passive infrared seeker (R-27T); 2.with passive radar seeker (R-27P / P1); 3.with active radar seeker (R-27EA; R-27EM) ...
  17. Osipov9391
    Osipov9391 30 May 2021 23: 40
    +5
    To hit an air target from a fighter at a distance of 90-110 km or more, this target must not only hover in the air but, as it were, drift back to the fighter and the rocket flying towards it!
    At such ranges in combat conditions, no one is allowed simply because of the risk that the missile will not reach the target.
    All of today's Western combat aircraft (including Turkish ones) have very good SPO systems much better than the L-150 "Pastel" on the Su-35 and other Russian aircraft.
    That is, an experienced pilot of a combat aircraft, when using the SPO, identifies aiming and launching a rocket at his aircraft from a long distance, he will simply turn on the afterburner and leave it home.
    It will not reach him at a distance of 90-110 km. More precisely, it will fly if it is a helicopter or transport plane. Well, or if the pilot is a fool who does not look at the STR at all.
    35-50 km. Here is the optimal distance to attack with medium-range missiles. The fact is that the R-77 should have fully ACTIVE guidance with the "Let it go and forget it" principle.
    And the R-27ER has semi-active guidance - outdated for a long time due to low noise immunity and due to the fact that these missiles were made in Ukraine until 2014 at a plant in Kiev. Heads for them seem to be in the same place.
    The West has long studied everything there in length and breadth. And with the R-77 it was not so easy and is. According to my information, the components for this missile were also made by Ukraine. Like gas rudders and something else. The documentation for it was also transferred there.
    So, apparently, they cannot find a replacement for these nodes, or it will be determined how to improve the rocket in the sense where the West has smelled everything.
    1. Pavel57
      Pavel57 31 May 2021 00: 23
      +3
      Osipov9391,

      Almost everything is correct, but a couple of notes:
      - a missile with ARGS requires correction of the target coordinates, therefore, it will not be possible to realize the full autonomous principle of "let it go" for a maneuvering target. But really, after the ARGS captures the target, the carrier is free as the wind.
      - from the point of view of the features of the work, the semi-active head is more accurate than the active one, but in the R-27 it is outdated, studied by the enemies, etc., well, and requires the target to be illuminated to the end. Sometimes this is not so critical, for example, for the Su-34 it is necessary to break through, and not to evade a clash.

      And there are no gas rudders on the R-77. Apparently there is confusion with the R-73. In Soviet times, Vympel developed missiles, and the series was in factories, including in Kiev. The transfer and localization of production to Russia took time.
      1. Osipov9391
        Osipov9391 31 May 2021 02: 30
        +2
        And also radars N001 for the Su-27SM and Su-30M2 came from Khmelnitsky, also from Ukraine.
        This radar is hopelessly outdated after being created in the early 80s and studied by everyone in a row? For this radar, the R-27 missiles were created. More precisely for the Su-27.
        About the R-77 there was not a rudder but with something else (but a lot) was Ukrainian. It looks like the drives are gas deflections of the steering surfaces. I do not remember exactly. But all the documentation was in Ukraine. At least until the end of the 2000s. Perhaps they even secretly made these missiles for export as the R-27.
      2. Hexenmeister
        Hexenmeister 31 May 2021 10: 45
        0
        from the point of view of the features of work, the semi-active head is more accurate than the active one, but in the R-27 it is outdated, studied by the enemies, etc., well, it requires the target to be illuminated to the end.
        If, as they write here, guidance to the jammer is implemented for the 27ER, then the onboard radar becomes a weak point, more precisely, the features of its operation when guiding this missile, and of course the low level of stealth during the attack with semi-active guidance.
    2. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 31 May 2021 02: 04
      0
      Quote: Osipov9391
      R-77 should have fully ACTIVE guidance with the "Let it go and forget it" principle.
      And the R-27ER has semi-active guidance - outdated for a long time due to low noise immunity and ...

      There are options for the R-27 EA / EM with an active radar seeker! In addition, there are R-27s with passive infrared and radar seeker ...
  18. Pavel57
    Pavel57 31 May 2021 00: 12
    +2
    Quote: Redfox3k
    from the R-27 family, the R-27R itself has long been removed from service, and its further modifications are ER and ET.

    Apparently you are not aware that the letter E (energy) means only the version with a large engine. All other units for "E" and not "E" are the same. And they were developed right away - a small one for the MiG-29, a large one for the Su-27.
  19. hroft
    hroft 31 May 2021 02: 21
    +1
    Not a word has been said about the fact that recently the SU-35 was combined with the RVV-BD R-37M, which previously only the MiG-31 could use.
    1. Pavel57
      Pavel57 31 May 2021 07: 44
      +1
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      Quote: Osipov9391
      R-77 should have fully ACTIVE guidance with the "Let it go and forget it" principle.
      And the R-27ER has semi-active guidance - outdated for a long time due to low noise immunity and ...

      There are options for the R-27 EA / EM with an active radar seeker! In addition, there are R-27s with passive infrared and radar seeker ...

      With active RGS R-27 no. Remained on paper. Priority was given to the R-77.
  20. Adimius38
    Adimius38 31 May 2021 06: 27
    +1
    Aircraft in Syria were also equipped with the R-77, as well as in the combined version of the R-77, R-27. Therefore, judging by one flight about missiles is somehow silly. Yes, and no one is going to write off the R-27, the rocket has many modifications and they are quite relevant today.
  21. Russobel
    Russobel 31 May 2021 07: 47
    0
    an old friend is better than two new ones.
    Old doesn't mean bad ...
  22. Reserve buildbat
    Reserve buildbat 31 May 2021 14: 23
    0
    "The most striking element of these operations was that the plane was equipped with old R-27 missiles instead of new R-77." Or maybe this suggests that there is more than enough for the Turks and the P-27 and there is no need to spend the P-77?
    Self-propelled fez became inflamed.
  23. Synoid
    Synoid 31 May 2021 15: 40
    0
    Quote: Kaman
    Let the Turkm take SU-35. So the Turkish neighbors will be calmer

    Precisely noticed, where the SU-35 others have to sit exactly on the priest.
  24. Synoid
    Synoid 31 May 2021 15: 41
    0
    If the missiles are doing their job, why change?
  25. Synoid
    Synoid 31 May 2021 16: 12
    0
    Quote: Alexey RA
    Quote: TermNachTER
    Moreover, against their old stuff, the capabilities of the "R - 27" are enough "for the eyes".

    Are you serious now?
    The era of RVV with PA RLGSN ended in the 80s. Then, during exercises in the United States, it was established that the effective launch range of the Sparrow did not exceed the launch range of the Sidewinder. The reason is simple - at distances over 10 km, the on-board electronic warfare systems repeatedly failed the capture.

    Maybe they are counting on this:
    R-27EP - a missile with a 9B1032 passive radar homing head and an increased launch range, to destroy radio-emitting air targets, ensuring the defeat of aircraft that put active interference. The launch range is 110 km.
  26. Nikolai Redko
    Nikolai Redko 31 May 2021 18: 55
    -1
    Here, the most optimal moment to "fill up" some Israeli F-35 to dispel vague hints. It is a pity that Shoigu is NOT ALLOWED!