Military Review

"Combat experience is very limited": the Polish edition spoke about the rotation of the commanders of the RF Armed Forces in Syria

74

Russian leader Vladimir Putin on Tuesday announced that a large number of commanders of the Russian Armed Forces have gained military experience through their participation in the Syrian campaign. Thus, Moscow does not hide the fact that it views Syria as a training ground for its own armed forces.


This is noted in the Polish edition of Defense24, commenting on the words of the head of the Russian Federation about over 85% of the representatives of the high command who have gained combat experience in the SAR. It was received by the overwhelming majority of the commanders of large Russian military formations and regiments.

Moscow believes that this should have a beneficial effect on the work of the headquarters and command personnel of the Russian armed forces, including with their participation in exercises and during major maneuvers.

Russians have long been using the planned rotation of personnel in Syria for educational purposes

- indicated in the publication.

At the same time, it is emphasized that the military strives to pass through the SAR as many officers and teachers from military educational institutions as possible, since, based on the acquired combat experience, they must include new technological, tactical and operational solutions in the educational process.

The problem lies in mass rotation, as the actual combat experience of some commanders may be very limited. Moreover, the Syrian conflict is characterized by great asymmetry between the belligerents. Consequently, it is impossible to fully transfer the experience, for example, to the activities of the priority Western Military District

- conclude in the publication Defense24.
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  1. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 28 May 2021 11: 21
    +37
    Well, let the Poles share their combat experience ... Acquired in 1939.
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 28 May 2021 11: 24
      +33
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      Well, let the Poles share their combat experience ... Acquired in 1939.

      Yes, they have fresher, in Iraq and Afghanistan, mattress mats toilets were repaired cartridges brought! Very valuable experience, where to ours. laughing
      1. Anachoret
        Anachoret 28 May 2021 13: 19
        +13
        meanwhile, the Polish and Ukrainian military are conducting joint exercises "strawberry solidarity 2021")))
        1. Vladimir Mashkov
          Vladimir Mashkov 28 May 2021 16: 07
          +4
          Oh yeah! The Poles, of course, are the largest military experts and, of course, know better than the Russians themselves whether the experience of military operations in Syria is useful for the Russian military! laughing

          What can these shabby mangy Polish "tobacco" American Sherkhan know about the experience of the war in Syria? laughing
      2. Pete mitchell
        Pete mitchell 28 May 2021 20: 19
        +5
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        they have fresher, in Iraq and Afghanistan, mattress mats toilets were repaired cartridges brought

        You slander the Poles - not good wink the "Thunder" unit was distinguished by its cruelty, about which civilized prefer not to remember, but can be found in the internet.
    2. mojohed2012
      mojohed2012 28 May 2021 11: 28
      +23
      Why, they have been in Afghanistan from the USA all these years of "occupation". As well as the United States killed civilians, not counting. But, what is their combat experience? Protection of poppy fields and drug delivery routes with drug laboratories to the northern borders of Afghanistan by analogy with the United States plundering Syria for oil, escorting convoys of oil tankers from ISIS and other proxy Turks towards Iraq and Turkey?
    3. Alexander 3
      Alexander 3 28 May 2021 11: 31
      +5
      Well, of course, we need to listen to the "well-wisher" and do the opposite. Comrades are taking the right course.
    4. venik
      venik 28 May 2021 22: 18
      0
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      Well, let the Poles share their combat experience ... Acquired in 1939.

      ========
      So they "share" ... With "hohlami" ..... But from only a very meager "combat experience" ... Somehow I went "out of suit" .....
      But criticize! Here is the "clear-minded" - "ahead of the rest!" On the more - INAPPROPRIATE! request wassat
  2. Prisoner
    Prisoner 28 May 2021 11: 26
    +6
    If you twitch, you will have enough experience. We have one peculiarity. We learn quickly and usually we surpass our "teachers".
  3. Alexander 3
    Alexander 3 28 May 2021 11: 29
    +9
    Combat experience is priceless. One thing is a textbook, another is your personal experience, on your bumps.
  4. knn54
    knn54 28 May 2021 11: 30
    +2
    Contrary to Poland is quite enough.
    1. Reviews
      Reviews 28 May 2021 11: 42
      +5
      Quote: knn54
      Contrary to Poland is quite enough.

      Do we need it, in general?
      1. Ruslan Sulima
        Ruslan Sulima 28 May 2021 11: 50
        +6
        Do we need it, in general?

        Do you think you need to liquidate?)
      2. orionvitt
        orionvitt 28 May 2021 13: 01
        +4
        Quote: Avis
        Do we need it, in general?

        The conversation is not about taking over Poland. Talk about rolling out on occasion, if they rock the boat. They are behind NATO, something very greyhound. And so then yes, nafig they fell.
  5. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 28 May 2021 11: 36
    +8
    The problem lies in mass rotation, since the actual combat experience of some commanders may be very limited ... the Syrian conflict is characterized by a large asymmetry between the belligerents
    And the war in Iraq, in which the Poles "tested" their own and mainly on the civilian population, is not characterized by asymmetry? Who would teach military science in a real way, but not the Poles. Soon the Balts and the Georgians will begin to talk about the wrong approach of the RF Ministry of Defense to the development of combat experience. Warriors are shitty (vegetable).
    1. Cananecat
      Cananecat 28 May 2021 11: 47
      +2
      Quote: rotmistr60
      Soon the Balts and Georgians will begin to reason

      The Balts may start ... and the Georgians will just cry on the sidelines))
    2. orionvitt
      orionvitt 28 May 2021 13: 15
      +3
      Quote: rotmistr60
      Who would teach military science in a real way, but not the Poles

      Who would teach? All recent American and NATO wars are "humanitarian" bombings of an admittedly weak enemy. The same cannot be said about the ground operation against the ISIS. It is clear that the main load was borne by the Syrian army, but without Russian special forces and air support, nothing would have come of them. It remains to recall the fashionable trends in the Western armies, with regards to gender equality (such as women in combat units), the obligatory presence of various kinds of rainbow, transgender and other "fighting homosexuals" in the units. And such things, the army does not strengthen in any way. So, the comrades are on the right course, and the Russian army will follow its own.
  6. Reviews
    Reviews 28 May 2021 11: 41
    +4
    Interesting ... I have always believed that it is better to have 100% specialists with little real experience than 10% with the maximum and 90% with zero.
  7. APASUS
    APASUS 28 May 2021 11: 44
    +1
    Under the USSR, in order to get an asterisk, it was necessary to go through Afghanistan, but on the other hand, the officers there turned out to be not parquet generals, as it is now
    1. carstorm 11
      carstorm 11 28 May 2021 11: 52
      +5
      In the Union, their darkness was. Parquet always appears and is in any army in the world. It's more about the person himself. Who goes to work and why. How to build a career. What he wants to achieve.
  8. rocket757
    rocket757 28 May 2021 11: 47
    +2
    conclude in the publication Defense24.
    ... They are pushing water in a mortar .... to say, really interesting, they have nothing.
    1. cniza
      cniza 28 May 2021 12: 20
      +4
      They really want to criticize us and point out that we are doing something badly or not enough ...
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 28 May 2021 13: 26
        +2
        Well, yes, an empty breach, for the sake of the breach itself ...
        In reality, the little pot-bellied, and the pathos, the wish, is above the navel.
        1. cniza
          cniza 28 May 2021 13: 46
          +2
          Themselves in Afghanistan sat behind the fence, gaining "experience" ...
  9. Tagan
    Tagan 28 May 2021 11: 48
    +2
    Poles constantly gain experience, but for some reason they do not know how to use it.
  10. Ruslan Sulima
    Ruslan Sulima 28 May 2021 11: 49
    +2
    Damn, it's like a situation in which Guderian tells Rybalko how badly he fights ...
    1. orionvitt
      orionvitt 28 May 2021 13: 23
      0
      Quote: Ruslan Sulima
      Damn, it's like a situation in which Guderian tells Rybalko how badly he fights.

      Well, in general, until the end of 42 years, Guderian, very much even bent everyone. And Europe and ours as well, otherwise the Germans would not have reached Stalingrad. But "something" then happened, and ours learned to fight much better. That's what I understand, combat experience.
      1. Ruslan Sulima
        Ruslan Sulima 28 May 2021 15: 47
        0
        Well, in general, then

        This is how I imagine this conversation, in 1945
        - Yes, you directed the wedge in the wrong direction, it was necessary like this!
        - But who should have, you?
        - Yes, you do not understand, here you could destroy me faster!
        - Why didn't you break me?
        - Yes, I could not ...
        The cartoon reminds the Dog and the Wolf "Yes, I .. this ... Yes, I understand, this is the job."
  11. ODERVIT
    ODERVIT 28 May 2021 11: 53
    0
    This is a statement for the sake of a statement.
  12. Bez 310
    Bez 310 28 May 2021 11: 57
    -3
    Yes, there is a reason in the reasoning of the Poles.
    Indeed, the experience acquired by our military is very specific, and I do not think that this experience would be useful in the event of a conflict with "civilized" armies. In principle, everyone knows about this, but they prefer to pretend that this is the way to learn military science. But it is known that a war with a "primitive" enemy gives a primitive experience, and it is criminal to extend this experience to the entire Army, as it leads to simplification.
    This is my personal opinion, and it will not necessarily coincide with the opinion of most of the commentators, although I have not read their opinion yet. But I think that I am not mistaken ...
    1. carstorm 11
      carstorm 11 28 May 2021 12: 22
      +6
      You just need to understand what kind of experience we are talking about))) The senior officers gain experience of rapid implementation in the management system. That will give them in a future war, when receiving a new appointment, not to spend months for this. Ability to plan in a combat situation. It has no price. The Poles were too simple in their attitude to the analysis and this is very in vain. In addition, the middle command staff will learn to understand otvtlstvo in a combat situation at their level. This rotation is the best thing you can think of for any officer. Any level. Even such a trifle as the realization that you may well die in a combat situation changes a lot in your head. Everyone knows that. But to realize this in reality is fundamentally different.
    2. Andrey Krasnoyarsky
      Andrey Krasnoyarsky 28 May 2021 12: 42
      +4
      Even such combat experience is much more useful and valuable than the experience gained in theatrical exercises, where they are at war with a cardboard enemy.
    3. orionvitt
      orionvitt 28 May 2021 13: 35
      0
      Quote: Bez 310
      I do not think that this experience would be useful in the event of a conflict with "civilized" armies

      The conflict with "civilized armies" threatens an all-out nuclear war. What experience can be learned from the nuclear ashes, I do not know. But the Strategic Missile Forces, just in case, are always on duty. Even if, hypothetically, a future war will do without nuclear weapons, then in this case there are other types of troops. Starting from air defense, tank and motorized infantry divisions, ending with aerospace forces and all sorts of subunits such as electronic warfare. Many things. Where there are trained commanders who are aware of what types of weapons are in service with Western countries, and how to deal with them. Already where where, but in the army there are no bad ones. That is, it can and is of course (as elsewhere), but there are only a few of them.
      1. Bez 310
        Bez 310 28 May 2021 13: 41
        -1
        Quote: orionvitt
        Already where where, but in the army there are no bad ones. That is, it can and is of course (as elsewhere), but there are only a few of them.

        Your statement is wrong, unfortunately ...
        1. orionvitt
          orionvitt 28 May 2021 13: 50
          -1
          Quote: Bez 310
          Your statement is wrong, unfortunately ...

          That is, you say that in the Russian army, all the officers without exception are impassable dumbass? So what? laughing
          1. Bez 310
            Bez 310 28 May 2021 13: 52
            -2
            Quote: orionvitt
            That is, you say that in the Russian army, all the officers without exception are impassable dumbass?

            No, I did not say that, no need to juggle!
            Or do you just do not understand what you read?
            1. orionvitt
              orionvitt 28 May 2021 14: 01
              -2
              Quote: Bez 310
              No, I did not say that, no need to juggle!
              Or do you just do not understand what you read?

              Who is juggling this? I perfectly understood everything that you have written and read by me. You directly state that in the Russian army, most of the commanders are, to put it mildly, incompetent.
              1. Bez 310
                Bez 310 28 May 2021 14: 10
                -1
                Quote: orionvitt
                You directly state that in the Russian army, most of the commanders are, to put it mildly, incompetent.

                I do not want to "get personal", and I do not advise you.
                You will not be able to point out where I "directly state" about the incompetence of most commanders, so I warn you - stop lying!
                1. orionvitt
                  orionvitt 28 May 2021 14: 22
                  -1
                  Quote: Bez 310
                  Quote: orionvitt
                  You directly state that in the Russian army, most of the commanders are, to put it mildly, incompetent.

                  I do not want to "get personal", and I do not advise you.
                  You will not be able to point out where I "directly state" about the incompetence of most commanders, so I warn you - stop lying!

                  Who's lying here? Did you get up on the wrong foot? Or they sat down on their own wave, but it is impossible to jump off the wave? lol You directly wrote that I was allegedly mistaken in saying that sometimes there are incompetent commanders in the army, of whom there are only a few (an insignificant minority). If I am wrong, then in your opinion they are the majority. What's wrong then? Stop hysteria.
                  1. Bez 310
                    Bez 310 28 May 2021 14: 32
                    -1
                    Quote: orionvitt
                    then you think they are the majority.

                    No need to speculate for me!
                    And there is no need to talk about "the wave ... on the wrong foot .. jump off ...", you state primitively, running into an argument, but there will be no continuation.
                    I said what I wanted to say, and I will end this dispute.
          2. Remo
            Remo 28 May 2021 21: 33
            0
            When I served in the army, I thought there were only dumbass around me. And when I quit, I realized that the army is a bunch of intellectuals! laughing lol tongue
    4. ABC-schütze
      ABC-schütze 28 May 2021 14: 57
      +3
      Yeah ... Exactly, - "criminally" ... Especially, if you do not remember that behind the backs of the "uncivilized" (including the public from the Armed Forces of Ukraine, by the way) loom US, British, Turkish, etc. instructors. Just those who teach their wards to conduct military operations ON THE FIELD OF BATTLE, against a completely civilized Russian army. And if we forget that in Syria, the Russian command contingent gains real experience of combat planning, combat, interspecific interaction at the tactical and operational-tactical level and real experience of using new models of domestic weapons and military equipment in combat conditions. By the way, it is not the armies that are "in conflict" (that is, they are fighting ...), but the states or their coalitions. And for the development of methods, the choice of means and skills of disruption of THEIR already hostile to Russia, "civilized" military plans and intentions, to Syria, it is certainly not required to "go" at all. It is quite enough to regularly monitor the development of their military infrastructure and military activity near the Russian borders so that a potential "battlefield" ("if something happens" ...), IMMEDIATELY, becomes not Russia, but the historical habitats of all kinds of Polish and other "civilized analysts. "...
      1. Bez 310
        Bez 310 28 May 2021 15: 04
        0
        Quote: ABC-schütze
        in Syria, the Russian command contingent gains real experience in combat planning, combat, interspecific interaction at the tactical and operational-tactical level and real experience in the use of new models of domestic weapons and military equipment in combat conditions.

        Don't you fill the MO website with such slogans?
        How long can you broadcast headlines?
  13. Reserve buildbat
    Reserve buildbat 28 May 2021 12: 12
    -1
    Presumably, the commanders of the great and invincible gay litter of pshekia and combat experience have carriages with carts for everyone. Except how to skedaddle they do not know how to do anything, the gentlemen are outhouse. laughing
  14. cniza
    cniza 28 May 2021 12: 18
    +1
    More experts and critics, watch your army ...
  15. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 28 May 2021 12: 19
    +5
    Service in Syria pays three to five salaries per month.
    It is clear that a long line of contract soldiers, military officers has formed
    and, especially, staff officers.
    And it's clear that the rotations are short. Otherwise, there won't be enough space for everyone in the queue.
    Plus, another medal for participation in hostilities.
    1. sledak
      sledak 28 May 2021 13: 08
      0
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Service in Syria pays three to five salaries per month.
      It is clear that a long line of contract soldiers, military officers has formed
      and, especially, staff officers.
      And it's clear that the rotations are short. Otherwise, there won't be enough space for everyone in the queue.
      Plus, another medal for participation in hostilities.


      I also envy them WHITE envy and experience and you can earn! good
    2. dali
      dali 28 May 2021 13: 13
      0
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Service in Syria pays three to five salaries per month.
      It is clear that a long line of contract soldiers, military officers has formed
      and, especially, staff officers.
      And it's clear that the rotations are short. Otherwise, there won't be enough space for everyone in the queue.
      Plus, another medal for participation in hostilities.

      Sledak, and the warrior also became jealous).
      And at the expense of the queue ... Duc your all the time they say, like Russia in Syria stuck for a long time ...)
  16. LTCNL
    LTCNL 28 May 2021 12: 36
    +1
    Experience of action in any combat situation, even if it is insignificant, is better than its absence in non-combat districts.
  17. sledak
    sledak 28 May 2021 12: 45
    +1
    How much could our commanders have before their Agromous tobacco (the Supreme Commander spoke about them when he spoke about sherkhan tobacco?) Combat experience.
  18. Anchonsha
    Anchonsha 28 May 2021 13: 25
    +1
    Something psheki zazhralis, apparently the US wanted more attention. Well, this is temporary, and so, usually always, sixes always get musals from the owner in case of failure.
  19. lisiy prapor
    lisiy prapor 28 May 2021 13: 25
    0
    Well, at least kill me, I don't understand. Well, okay, weapons, reliability check, there, something else, I don’t know - not an expert. But (IMHO) hostilities against an enemy who have neither air defense, nor air force, nor any large formations, with tanks there and so on, for the experience of commanders - yes, it's not about anything at all. Yes, the hostilities against Georgia gave the army more useful experience than this 6-year fuss in Syria. More like an excuse about the benefits of being in the SAR.
    1. Reviews
      Reviews 28 May 2021 13: 33
      +1
      Quote: lisiy prapor
      Well, at least kill me, I don't understand. Well, okay, weapons, reliability check, there, something else, I don’t know - not an expert. But (IMHO) hostilities against an enemy who have neither air defense, nor air force, nor any large formations, with tanks there and so on, for the experience of commanders - yes, it's not about anything at all.

      That is, no experience at all is better than at least some? "Logic" - to shoot yourself and not get up.
      1. lisiy prapor
        lisiy prapor 28 May 2021 13: 47
        -1
        Yes, what is the experience? Come, take a walk in Syria, listen to the report in the "Lenin's room" (I don't know what it's called now) and return to tell "how I fought in Syria"? They do not plan operations, do not conduct analysis, these are not commanders of "specialists" or intelligence, these are "divisional commanders" and "regiment commanders" who come across there for a "tick", "here, they say, we have officers with combat experience."
        1. Reviews
          Reviews 28 May 2021 13: 49
          -1
          Quote: lisiy prapor
          Yes, what is the experience? Come, take a walk in Syria, listen to the report in the "Lenin's room" (I don't know what it's called now) and return to tell "how I fought in Syria"? They do not plan operations, do not conduct analysis, these are not commanders of "specialists" or intelligence, these are "divisional commanders" and "regiment commanders" who come across there for a "tick", "here, they say, we have officers with combat experience."

          Have you carefully read what you yourself wrote above? The question is rhetorical. Have not read it.
  20. TermNachTer
    TermNachTer 28 May 2021 13: 37
    +2
    Rzhu nimagu))) stupid Pshekov's habit - to teach others, while they themselves do not know how. When did Pshek's Zoldats last fight, for real?)))) 0
  21. isv000
    isv000 28 May 2021 13: 43
    0
    Our experience is enough for pshek ... soldier
  22. Decimalegio
    Decimalegio 28 May 2021 14: 12
    +2
    Out-of-area operations improve logistic units, joint capabilities and, obviously, infantry units actually participating in hostilities. But if shifts are short and during this period you have no fights, what is your experience ??? Another problem is that there are many units (e.g. gunners) that are used as infantry to the detriment of special training.
    1. isv000
      isv000 29 May 2021 11: 27
      0
      We have the genetic experience of defending our land, protecting civilians, but in practice, our army constantly hones its skills in exercises and in hot spots - again to protect civilians from the actions of all sorts of striped coalitions. The territories of the Voronezh and Rostov regions should be well reflected in your genetic memory, there is very good black soil now ... yes
    2. Sergey Aleksandrovich
      Sergey Aleksandrovich 29 May 2021 21: 34
      0
      The artillerymen are not used as infantrymen, they have never done this in Russia, they are not doing it, and they are not going to do it. Artillery is used to support infantry units, but never instead.
      1. Decimalegio
        Decimalegio 29 May 2021 22: 00
        0
        I don't know how artillery works in Russia. But the general principle is this: the field shooter is first and foremost a shooter. Now in Italy, field artillery units (not self-propelled guns) of paratroopers and alpine troops are used as riflemen due to the change of missions abroad. The country where you go, the habits that you will find
        1. Sergey Aleksandrovich
          Sergey Aleksandrovich 29 May 2021 22: 28
          0
          I'm completely at a loss. This is impossible even to imagine in the armed forces of Russia or the former USSR. At most a gunner can be assigned as a gunner. Artillery is used only for its intended purpose. It can be trained, but never used as a motorized rifle.
          1. Decimalegio
            Decimalegio 30 May 2021 01: 20
            0
            If you ask Paratrooper Gunner Folgor who he is, he will answer that he is first a Paratrooper and then a Gunner.
  23. Black cowl
    Black cowl 28 May 2021 15: 35
    +1
    The Pole cannot understand that the very presence in a combat situation is already combat experience, and the ability of a commander to make the right decision in these conditions cannot be acquired in any tactical training.
    1. isv000
      isv000 29 May 2021 11: 40
      0
      The Psheks didn't even have time to wake up when the war ended in Karabakh and our checkpoints were set up in key areas. This is for them to note, about the speed of deployment of our units on the territory of a potential enemy ... soldier
  24. grafskaiapristan
    grafskaiapristan 28 May 2021 21: 14
    +1
    Or maybe even the Romanians or Bulgarians ask how and where Russia to practice its lump. structure. You may not respect yourself, but humiliating the Russians is at least indecent.
    1. isv000
      isv000 29 May 2021 11: 32
      0
      It is their lot - to whine from behind the fence - there is no decency there ...
  25. Remo
    Remo 28 May 2021 21: 26
    0
    I agree that combat experience is not quite full-fledged. But not for everyone. Take, for example, the MTR, for them, I believe, there is simply an invaluable experience that can be applied in any war. And the air defense !!!? A reliable echeloned defense has been built on the Khmeimim base and it does not fail. I also think helicopter pilots get a good experience. But from the pilots of the aircraft, in my opinion, range experience is acquired, which is not entirely full-fledged, but the skills of using various types of weapons are invaluable to the pilots. Well, you yourself know about the logisticians.
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 29 May 2021 07: 38
      0
      On the one hand, yes ... on the other, they interact with the MTR (and this is communications and new ammunition, etc.)
    2. isv000
      isv000 29 May 2021 11: 34
      0
      Utilization of ammunition, again, than to spend money on landfills, it is better to throw off the bearded on a turban ... hi
  26. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 29 May 2021 07: 37
    0
    Some of the forces of this experience "above the roof", someone learns to interact ...
  27. Hiller
    Hiller 29 May 2021 23: 02
    0
    Yes, there is more than enough combat experience among the pshek ... And ours are learning ... and flyers, and air defense, and sailors, and logisticians, and techies. and signalmen, and REbovtsy. The headquarters plan and the commanders execute.
  28. Synoid
    Synoid 30 May 2021 05: 00
    0
    Poles scare themselves.
    They calm themselves down.
  29. Russian soldier
    Russian soldier 3 June 2021 14: 48
    0
    Yes, most of the commanders and commanders (chiefs) of all levels adequately assess the experience of the SAR, for the ZSN there is, in fact, the experience of commanding a combined-arms war in the Donbass. at the tactical level, there is much that has already been worked out for a long time. At the operational, operational-strategic level, the RF Armed Forces "recalled" the experience of conducting hostilities abroad. the most important thing is that with a small force of up to 8-10 thousand soldiers and officers they were able to win the war in a single country. Those. our country can pull 2-3 conflicts of the SAR type at the same time. This is the main experience.