Military Review

Lost cities of America and Southeast Asia

135

Palenque, Mexico


Article Abandoned cities of the world we talked about some of the lost cities in Europe, Asia and Africa. Today we will continue this story, and this article will focus on the abandoned cities of the Incas and Mayans, as well as the grandiose Buddhist cities and complexes of Southeast Asia.

Lost Cities of the Maya


In the 1700th century, on the Yucatan Peninsula, the Mayan civilizations, striking in their grandeur, were discovered. The first of these was discovered by Mexican Colonel Garlindo, who stumbled upon him on a business trip related to recruiting. Oddly enough, his message did not attract the attention of his superiors. Only three years later, it accidentally fell into the hands of the American lawyer John Lloyd Stephens, who was a passionate amateur archaeologist. The Mexican's report played the role of a detonator: Stephens immediately dropped everything and began to prepare for the expedition. However, he still went not to Mexico, but to Honduras, where, according to his data, back in XNUMX, some Spanish conquistador allegedly discovered a huge complex of buildings and pyramids. Fortunately, Stephens did not imagine the difficulties of this journey, otherwise the discovery of the first Mayan city for science would then simply not have taken place. A small expedition had to literally cut through the jungle, but after a few days of the journey, the goal was achieved: Stephens and his companions stumbled upon a wall made of hewn, tightly fitted boulders. Climbing the steep staircase, they saw in front of them the ruins of pyramids and palaces. Stephens left this description of the painting before him:

“The ruined city lay before us like a ship wrecked in the middle of the ocean. Its masts were broken, the name was erased, the crew was killed. And no one can say where he came from, to whom he belonged, how long the journey lasted and what caused his death. "

On the way back, Stephens' expedition found several more cities.

Other expeditions followed the Garlindo route to southern Mexico, where the city of Palenque was soon found.


It is here that you can see the world famous Palace with a ballroom, temples (pyramids) of the Inscriptions, the Sun, the Cross and the Skull.


Palenque, the temple of the sun


Palenque, temple of the cross


Palenque, temple of the inscriptions

In the north of the Yucatan Peninsula, about 120 km from the city of Merida, the famous city of Chechen-Itza (the Well of the Itza tribe) was discovered, founded, as it is supposed, in the XNUMXth century. n. e.


In the 24th century, it was captured by the Toltec tribe, who made it their capital, and therefore you can see the buildings of both the Maya and the Toltecs in it. At the end of the 37th century, the Toltec state was defeated by its neighbors, and the city was deserted. Much attention of tourists is attracted here by the Kukulkan temple. This is a XNUMX-meter nine-step pyramid, the western balustrade of the main staircase of which the sun illuminates on the days of the spring and autumn equinox so that light and shadow form seven isosceles triangles that make up the body of a XNUMX-meter snake "crawling" to the base of the stairs.


Chichen Itza: View of the Pyramid of Kukulkan

The city also has the Temple of the Warriors, located at the top of another small pyramid, and the Temple of the Jaguars, the Caracol Observatory, seven ball courts, the remains of 4 colonnades (a group of one thousand columns). There is also a sacred well, about 50 meters deep, intended for sacrifices.

Another large abandoned city, Teotihuacan, can be seen 50 kilometers northeast of Mexico City. The years of its heyday fell on the V-VI centuries of the new era.


This city got its name from the Aztecs, who found it already deserted. Maya called him puh - literally "thickets of reeds." Once its population reached 125 thousand people, and now on the site of the city there is a grandiose archaeological complex, the main attractions of which are the pyramids of the Sun and the Moon. The Pyramid of the Sun is the tallest in America and the third tallest in the world, at its top there is a temple that was traditionally considered dedicated to the Sun. However, it was established that in ancient times the base of the pyramid was surrounded by a channel 3 meters wide, and in its corners there are burials of children, which is typical for sacrifices to the water god Tlaloc. Therefore, some modern researchers believe that the temple is dedicated to this particular god.


Teotihuacan, Pyramid of the Sun

The pyramid of the moon is smaller, but since it is located on a hill, visually this difference is not striking.


Teotihuacan, pyramid of the moon

On the central square of the city there is a huge altar, to which the so-called "Road of the Dead", 3 kilometers long, leads. Ironically, this road, along which tens of thousands of people doomed to become victims of the gods, have passed their last journey, is now a huge shopping street where locals sell souvenirs to tourists, among which various silverware predominates. Among the other monuments of Teotihuacan, the temple of Quetzalcoatl, whose pediment is decorated with the heads of snakes carved from stone, attracts attention.

It is now established that by 950 AD, most of the Mayan cities had already been abandoned. Modern researchers believe that the main reason for the decline of the Mayan cities was the massive deforestation of nearby tropical forests, caused by the increase in population. This led to soil erosion and the shallowing of clean shallow lakes (baggio), which were the main sources of water for the Maya (currently, water appears in them only from July to November). True, this theory cannot answer the question of why the Maya Indians did not build other cities in a new place.

The most amazing and incredible thing is that unknown Mayan cities are found even today. The last of them was discovered in 2004 by an expedition led by the Italian archaeologist Francisco Estrada-Belli. It is located in one of the poorly studied areas in the northeast of Guatemala - near Siwal.

Lost cities of Peru


In 1911, the American scientist Bingham discovered the ancient city of the Incas on the territory of the modern state of Peru, about 100 km from Cuzco. After the name of the nearby mountain, he was given the name Machu Picchu, but the Indians themselves called him Vilkapampa.



Lost cities of America and Southeast Asia

This city was considered "lost" for three centuries. Everyone knew that it existed, that it was built by the Incas and became their last fortress. Finding him became a sensation and attracted general interest. Therefore, the very next year, Bingham was able to return here at the head of an expedition organized by Yale University. The city was cleared of thickets and sand, and the first research works were carried out. For 15 years, under the most difficult conditions, a narrow-gauge railway was being built to the newly acquired city, which is still the only way that more than 200 tourists a year get to Machu Picchu. The city is located on a plateau between two mountain peaks - Machu Picchu ("Old Mountain") and Huayna Picchu ("Young Mountain"). Above, there is a stunning view of the river valley, where the temple of the Sun-Inga is located: it was here, according to local legends, that the Sun first touched the Earth. The nature of the area dictates the peculiarities of the city's development: houses, temples, palaces huddle together, quarters and individual buildings are connected by stairs that act as streets. The longest of these stairs has 000 steps, along which is the main aqueduct, through which rainwater fell into numerous stone pools. On the slopes of the mountains, there are terraces covered with earth, on which cereals and vegetables were grown.

Most tourists are sure that Machu Picchu was the capital of the Inca state, but scientists are not so categorical. The fact is that, despite the grandeur of the buildings, this settlement in no way can claim the role of a large city - there are only about 200 structures in it. Most researchers believe that no more than 1200 people lived in and around the city. Some of them believe that the city was a kind of "monastery" in which girls intended to be sacrificed to the gods lived. Others consider it a fortress, built before the arrival of the Incas.

In 2003, an expedition led by Hugh Thomson and Gary Ziegler discovered another Inca city 100 km from Cuzco. In the same year, these researchers, near Machu Picchu, while flying around the search area, managed to find another city unknown to science. This was done thanks to a special infrared thermosensitive camera, which recorded the difference in temperature between the stone buildings hidden by lush vegetation and the jungle surrounding them.

On the territory of Peru, in the Supe Valley, about 200 km from Lima, Paul Kosok discovered the oldest city in America - Caral. It was built by the tribes of the Norte Chico civilization, who lived in these places before the arrival of the Inca conquerors.


Its heyday fell on 2600-2000. BC e. The city itself was inhabited by about 3000 people (representatives of aristocratic families, priests and their servants), but in the surrounding valley the population reached 20. Caral is surrounded by 000 pyramids, but there are no walls. Not found during excavation weapons, but on the other hand, musical instruments were discovered - flutes made of condor bones and pipes made of deer bones. No traces of the storming of the city have been identified: apparently, after the arrival of the Incas, it fell into decay in the same way as the cities of the Incas were deserted after the conquest of this country by the Spaniards.

Now we will talk a little about the lost cities of Southeast Asia.

Angkor





In the middle of the 100th century, the French naturalist Anri Muo, while traveling in Southeast Asia, heard stories about an ancient city hidden by the centuries-old forests of Cambodia. The interested scientist began to make inquiries and soon met a certain Catholic missionary who claimed that he had been able to visit the lost city. Muo persuaded the missionary to become his guide. They were lucky: they did not get lost and did not go astray, and in a few hours they found themselves at the grandiose ruins of the capital of the Khmer state - Angkor. The first they discovered the largest and most famous temple of Angkor - Angkor Wat, built in the XII century by King Suryavarman II. On a huge stone platform (115x13 and XNUMX meters high) five towers rush upward, decorated with bas-reliefs and ornaments. Around the temple there are numerous columns and an external wall, which in the plan is a regular square with a side of one kilometer. The scale of the temple shocked Muo, but he could not imagine the true grandeur of the city he discovered. Subsequent expeditions, clearing the forest and drawing up a plan for Angkor, found that it covers an area of ​​many tens of square kilometers and is the largest "dead" city in the world. It is believed that during the heyday, the number of its inhabitants reached a million people. The Khmer state, ravaged by constant wars with neighbors and the waste of its kings, fell at the turn of the XII-XIII centuries. Together with him, the grandiose city with its numerous temples and palaces went into oblivion.

Pagan


A completely special and unique abandoned city is Bagan - the ancient capital of the kingdom of the same name. It is located in the territory of modern Myanmar. Here you can see 4000 temples and pagodas.




This abandoned city is unique in that no one has ever lost or forgotten it. The ruins of the city, covering an area of ​​about 40 square kilometers, lie on the banks of the main river of Myanmar, the Ayeyarwaddy, and are clearly visible to everyone who swims along it. After the fall of the Burmese state crushed by the Mongols (by the way, the famous traveler Marco Polo told about these events in his book), the maintenance of the huge capital turned out to be an unbearable task for the survivors of the war-torn inhabitants. The last of them left the city in the XIV century. Near Pagan and directly on its territory there is a small town and several villages, gardens and fields were planted right between the temples. The names of the kings and rulers, on whose orders the grandiose palaces and temples were built, were forgotten, but every second Burmese fairy tale begins with the words: "It was in Pagan." Lying away from the main trade routes, Burma was a distant outlying province of the British Empire. Therefore, Pagan, being a true pearl of ancient architecture, did not attract the attention of the British for a long time, remaining in the shadow of the more famous Indian temples and monuments. The first of the Europeans to see the ancient city was the Englishman Syme (late XNUMXth century), who left sketches of some of its temples. After that, Pagan was visited by a huge number of all kinds of expeditions, very few of which can be called purely scientific: often their participants were engaged not so much in research as in banal robbery of the surviving temples. Nevertheless, from that time archaeologists from all over the world learned about Pagan, and systematic work began on the study of the ancient city.

The religious buildings of Pagan can be divided into three large groups. The first of these is temples. These are symmetrical buildings with four altars and Buddha statues. The second is Buddhist stupas with holy relics. The third - caves (gubyaukzhi) with a labyrinth of corridors painted with frescoes. Even a non-specialist can determine the approximate age of the frescoes: the older ones are made in two colors, the later ones are multi-colored. It is interesting that many representatives of the country's top military leadership come to one of the temples of Pagan to make wishes, and until recently it was guarded by army units.

The most famous temple of Pagan - Ananda - was built at the end of the 18th century and is a two-storey rectangular building, the windows of which are decorated with portals that look like flames. Sometimes in this flame one can discern the head of a fabulous serpent - Naga. A one-story covered gallery begins from the middle of each wall, through which you can enter the center of the temple. The roof is a series of diminishing terraces, decorated with lion sculptures and small pagodas at the corners. It is crowned with a conical tower (sikhara). Much attention of both tourists and pilgrims is attracted by the Shwezigon Pagoda, covered in gold and surrounded by many small temples and stupas, where the bones and teeth of the Buddha are kept. An exact copy of this tooth, once sent by the king of Sri Lanka, is in the Lokonanda temple. The largest statue of the reclining Buddha (61 meters) is located in the Shinbintalyang temple, and the tallest is the Tatbyinyi temple, whose height reaches XNUMX meters.

A feature of all the Pagan temples is the striking discrepancy between the appearance and the interior, striking all travelers. Outside, the temples seem light, light and almost weightless, but as soon as you go inside, everything immediately changes - twilight, narrow long corridors and galleries, low ceilings, huge statues of Buddha are designed to cause a person who has entered a feeling of his insignificance in front of the higher forces of fate. Most of the Pagan temples repeat Ananda in various variations, but there are exceptions. Such is, for example, the temple built by the order of Manukha, the captive king of the monks: the entire central hall of the temple is filled with a statue of a seated Buddha, it seems that a ten-meter broad-shouldered man is terribly cramped in the temple and just about, with a slight shoulder movement, he will destroy his prison. Apparently, in this way Manukha expressed his attitude to captivity. A copy of the Indian temple built on the birthplace of Buddha, reworked in the national Burmese style, is very interesting.

And this is the Buddhist monastery Taung Kalat located on the top of the cliff:


In Bagan there are also temples of non-Buddhist religions, which were built by merchants and monks from other countries who lived there - Hindu, Zoroastrian, Jain. Since these temples were built by the Burmese, they all have features characteristic of Pagan architecture. The most famous of them is the Nanpai Temple, inside of which you can see images of the four-headed Hindu god Brahma.

In addition to thousands of temples, Bagan has an Archaeological Museum with a rich collection of works of art.

Bagan archeological museum:




Borobodur


Another widely known lost Buddhist temple complex in the world is the famous Borobodur, located on the Indonesian island of Java. It is believed that in translation from Sanskrit this name means “Buddhist temple on the mountain”. The exact date of construction of Borobodur has not yet been determined. It is believed that the tribes who built this remarkable monument left their lands after the eruption of Mount Merapi at the beginning of the 1st millennium AD. e. Borobodur was discovered during the Anglo-Dutch War of 1814. At that time, only the upper terraces of the monument were visible. For a month and a half, 200 people, led by the Dutchman Cornelius, cleared the monument, but despite all efforts, it was not possible to finish the work then. They were continued in 1817 and 1822 and completed in 1835. Borobodur immediately attracted attention, which, unfortunately, led to his shameless plunder. Souvenir merchants took out dozens of sculptures, chipped off fragments of ornament. The King of Siam, who visited Borobodur in 1886, took with him many statues loaded on 8 bull teams. They began to protect the monument only at the beginning of the twentieth century, and in 1907-1911. the Dutch authorities made the first attempt to restore it. 1973-1984 at the initiative of UNESCO, a complete restoration of Borobodur was carried out. On September 21, 1985, the monument received minor damage during the bombing, and in 2006, the message of an earthquake in Java caused great concern among scientists around the world, but the complex then resisted and was practically not damaged.

What is Borobodur? This is a huge eight-tier stupa, the 5 lower tiers of which are square, and the upper three are round. The dimensions of the sides of the square foundation are 118 meters, the number of stone blocks used in the construction is about 2 million.


The upper tier is crowned with a large central stupa, 72 small ones are located around it. Each stupa is made in the shape of a bell with lots of decorations. Inside the stupas, there are 504 Buddha statues and 1460 bas-reliefs on various religious subjects.


According to a number of researchers, Borobodur can be viewed as a huge book: as the ritual circumambulation of each tier is completed, the pilgrims get acquainted with the life of the Buddha and with the elements of his teachings. Buddhists from all over the world, who have come to Borobodur since the second half of the XNUMXth century, believe that touching the statues in the stupas on the upper tier brings happiness.

In the next article we will talk a little about the famous Arkaim.
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  1. SERGE ANT
    SERGE ANT 31 May 2021 05: 10
    +15
    Thank you for the material. Photo - class! "let's talk about the famous Arkaim. "We'll wait.
    1. Bar1
      Bar1 31 May 2021 06: 40
      +5
      Mahendraparvata in Cambodia, all the laughter of the situation that such a huge temple was opened in 2013 !!!

      1. tlauicol
        tlauicol 31 May 2021 08: 22
        +7
        Quote: Bar1
        Mahendraparvata in Cambodia, all the laughter of the situation that such a huge temple was opened in 2013 !!!


        Jungle. The trees grow there like grass. Today we are looking at the cleared cities, and before that there was a continuous forest and swamps.
        1. Bar1
          Bar1 31 May 2021 20: 50
          +3
          Quote: Tlauicol
          Quote: Bar1
          Mahendraparvata in Cambodia, all the laughter of the situation that such a huge temple was opened in 2013 !!!


          Jungle. The trees grow there like grass. Today we are looking at the cleared cities, and before that there was a continuous forest and swamps.


          some buildings are well seen from above judging by this video, and Ankor Wat is only 40 km away. Muddy, some kind of story.
          1. tlauicol
            tlauicol 1 June 2021 05: 23
            +1
            Quote: Bar1
            Quote: Tlauicol
            Quote: Bar1
            Mahendraparvata in Cambodia, all the laughter of the situation that such a huge temple was opened in 2013 !!!


            Jungle. The trees grow there like grass. Today we are looking at the cleared cities, and before that there was a continuous forest and swamps.


            some buildings are well seen from above judging by this video, and Ankor Wat is only 40 km away. Muddy, some kind of story.

            Incidentally, I rose over Angkor in a hot air balloon, and did not see any construction site nearby. But she had to be, right? Cloudy video - it will be more accurate.
            Have you collected the old stones? Have the traces of processing also aged? And what about the soil, age-old trees, roads? Drainage of swamps ...
      2. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 31 May 2021 15: 57
        +5
        How they built it and opened it, you mean? laughing
        Or, on the contrary, was it built a long time ago, but was hidden until 2013?
        By the way, I watched the video. A rare nonsense for the weak-minded, accustomed to just BELIEVE.
        The whole point of a ten-minute clip in fifteen seconds laughing
        1. Bar1
          Bar1 31 May 2021 21: 00
          -2
          Quote: Trilobite Master
          How they built it and opened it, you mean?


          here it seems like this, firstly, what was discovered, how late it is clearly there is some reason, but the reason is this, now all over the world, for example, on Lukatan / Yukotan, there are new buildings with all their might, which are being built literally before our eyes to drive We see the same thing with Stonehenge, there may have been old stones, but not marketable, but if you put on a new shape and give a new essence, then two hares are killed at once and the old unwanted stones are veiled and the stubborn tourist knocks down ...
          Secondly, I don’t believe that such a complex was not discovered from aircraft, there were wars and the Americans sprinkled orange on the jungle.
          Everything is clear, until they built it, they began to open it, that's the whole reason.
          1. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 31 May 2021 21: 10
            +6
            Well, okay. Only it was necessary to wait from five years after the completion of construction until the roads to the place were overgrown, otherwise no one would believe, the money would not be paid. Is five years enough? No, probably not enough. It is necessary that the ruins were overgrown with all sorts of lianas, well, so that it was reliable. For at least ten years already. And how to age the stones, make them weathered, cracked? Well, I don’t know ... The project is probably twenty years in time, and I’m even afraid to imagine what an awesome cloud of money it will cost - it’s necessary to bring building materials there, workers, feed them, protect them ... One secrecy regime is to be observed, so that no one sniffs out what is being done there, as a specialist I tell you - it will be very expensive. I wouldn't give money for such a business plan, for sure.
            Do you think this grandiose project of cheating people will soon pay off? How many tourists will visit such an object per year and how much money will they leave on it?
            1. Bar1
              Bar1 31 May 2021 21: 24
              -1
              Quote: Trilobite Master
              Well, okay. Only it was necessary to wait from five years after the completion of construction until the roads to the place were overgrown, otherwise no one would believe, the money would not be paid. Is five years enough? No, probably not enough. It is necessary that the ruins were overgrown with all sorts of lianas, well, so that it was reliable. For at least ten years already. And how to age the stones, make them weathered, cracked? Well, I don’t know ... The project is probably twenty years in time, and I’m even afraid to imagine what an awesome cloud of money it will cost - it’s necessary to bring building materials there, workers, feed them, protect them ... One secrecy regime is to be observed, so that no one sniffs out what is being done there, as a specialist I tell you - it will be very expensive. I wouldn't give money for such a business plan, for sure.
              Do you think this grandiose project of cheating people will soon pay off? How many tourists will visit such an object per year and how much money will they leave on it?


              You can, you can. Here you need to be more specific, what is really there? You can transfer old stones, apparently there is enough of this good, then restore what was destroyed to an acceptable state.
              For example, Machu Picchu Peru, it is clear that below there is an old and high-tech masonry of well-fitted megaliths, and from above the locals have already tried, at least, something, at least something, but how much do tourists need?

              1. Trilobite Master
                Trilobite Master 31 May 2021 21: 49
                +6
                If you really want to, of course you can ... you can make it so that forgery can only be determined by a qualified examination. It is impossible to make the canopy not determined at all. The question is - how long will it take and how much will the customer cost?
                If the purpose of such a hoax is to receive money from tourists, then after what time will such a construction project pay for itself and start generating income?
                1. Bar1
                  Bar1 31 May 2021 22: 37
                  -1
                  Quote: Trilobite Master
                  If the purpose of such a hoax is to receive money from tourists, then after what time will such a construction project pay for itself and start generating income?


                  the past is a mystery that has been arranged by the current powers that be.
                  I wrote several times that the essence of a person is not what it is taken for. Between life and death there is still a state of sleep, and for what it is no one knows. Perhaps that civilization used these human capabilities, but the Christian / Muslim / Jewish and other modern civilizations stood in the way of those opportunities, and ancient buildings, pyramids, etc., are somehow connected with these secrets.
          2. tlauicol
            tlauicol 1 June 2021 06: 03
            +1
            from the air it looks like this now. after clearing. agree: clearly not the 60-meter towers of Angkor (not Bayon and Ta Prohm even, although they are shown in your video). From the ground like this:


            doubt it will attract more tourists than Angkor
  2. parusnik
    parusnik 31 May 2021 05: 50
    +10
    It seems that there are much more abandoned cities in LA than it seems. Life, there was seething, civilizations appeared and disappeared. Oh, there are so many blank pages.
    1. Astra wild2
      Astra wild2 31 May 2021 10: 38
      +4
      Hello, can you name the places where there are no "white pages"? I do not know such
      1. Richard
        Richard 31 May 2021 21: 42
        +3
        Tretyakov Gallery in Moscow. "Malevich's black square yes
        1. Mihaylov
          Mihaylov 1 June 2021 14: 40
          0
          Quote: Richard
          Tretyakov Gallery in Moscow. "Malevich's black square

          Isn't he in the Hermitage?
          I think I saw him there hi
          1. Richard
            Richard 1 June 2021 14: 42
            +1
            There is also in the Russian museum - these are copyright copies
            1. Mihaylov
              Mihaylov 1 June 2021 14: 46
              +2
              Quote: Richard
              There is also in the Russian museum - these are copyright copies

              Well, drawing black squares is a job that requires self-denial. wassat
    2. Usher
      Usher 31 May 2021 18: 47
      0
      Quote: parusnik
      It seems that there are much more abandoned cities in LA than it seems. Life, there was seething, civilizations appeared and disappeared. Oh, there are so many blank pages.

      Much is already known about Mesoamerica. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VJzyZcZQD4&t=711s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ5Ru8SlNhE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipaxCwtLq1w&t=2059s
  3. Korsar4
    Korsar4 31 May 2021 06: 02
    +8
    Interesting. But for some reason it hurts a little.
    Somewhere closer to the end of the article, Kipling began to be remembered:
    On the Road to Mandalay.

    And without water, nowhere. The phrase that civilization begins with forests and ends with deserts cannot be dismissed.
  4. VLR
    31 May 2021 06: 33
    +16
    By the way, once again looking through the literature on the temples of Mexico, I was once again convinced that the Spaniards during the conquest saved many more people than killed. The same "unfortunate" Aztecs took prisoners not for conversion into slavery, but for mass sacrifices. And, according to the recollections of eyewitnesses, the walls of the functioning temples-pyramids were covered with a thick layer of sintered blood. Therefore, the Indians of other tribes willingly helped the Spaniards. This is the reason for the success of the great adventure of Cortez.
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 31 May 2021 06: 39
      +5
      For each strong one there is an even stronger one.
      1. Bolt cutter
        Bolt cutter 31 May 2021 09: 19
        +7
        For each strong one there is an even stronger one.


        Arctic fox has many faces - and also knows how to walk on the seas yes ... Only for this scene the Oscar actors need to be given.
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 31 May 2021 09: 28
          +6
          Thank you. Interested. The conclusion is good. Understand. And I even support it.
          1. Bolt cutter
            Bolt cutter 31 May 2021 09: 32
            +6
            I watched this passage dozens of times and each time I saw something new. But the wife immediately drew attention to the fact that the Aztec warriors did not try to escape, but, on the contrary, forgot about the prey and went to meet with strangers unseen before. So they knew the iron - only from it they had not a weapon but a yaytsa yes Just try to take a close look at the faces of the conquistadors and Indians - history in every look.
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 31 May 2021 11: 24
              +6
              People's faces generally say a lot.
            2. Ulrih
              Ulrih 31 May 2021 17: 03
              +4
              Gibson did not seem to be making a film about any particular tribe, but supposedly a symbiosis of different ones, but for that matter, the Aztecs are not displayed in the film in any way. Most likely all the same Maya. This conclusion can be drawn from different nuances - the hairstyles of the warriors, the priests turned to Kukulkan and not to Quetzalcoatl, etc.
          2. Catfish
            Catfish 31 May 2021 17: 21
            +5
            I remembered something else.



            I wanted to insert something else, but I can't find it.
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 31 May 2021 09: 29
          +5
          Good film.
    2. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 31 May 2021 07: 18
      +7
      Simply, in our country, Konquista was considered for a long time from the one-sided point of view of Grigulevich. He was a good scout, but a so-so historian.
      Thank you, Valery!
      1. depressant
        depressant 31 May 2021 08: 12
        +8
        I join in my gratitude to Valery, as well as to Anton's opinion expressed earlier that every civilization, not being able to rise to technological heights, finds ways to utilize the surplus population through the aoinu. Or through mass sacrifices. And the methods of sacrifice depend on the type of civilization.
        And then, for example, I was late with the disposal - the water is running out. This is in America, this is also in Asia.
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 31 May 2021 09: 06
          +5
          And how many ways are there today?
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 31 May 2021 09: 18
            +5
            Yes, all the same horsemen of the Apocalypse.
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 31 May 2021 09: 24
              +5
              Probably. The question is which horse will appear first.
              1. Bolt cutter
                Bolt cutter 31 May 2021 09: 39
                +5
                all the same horsemen of the Apocalypse.
                Now there is another mare curve - the ideology of childfree and consumerism. Fifty years and no people belay
                1. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 31 May 2021 11: 25
                  +3
                  While this can still be dealt with.
                  1. Bolt cutter
                    Bolt cutter 31 May 2021 11: 29
                    +5
                    This will lead to the collapse of the economy. And yes, how to deal with it? It’s in our heads.
                    1. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 31 May 2021 11: 31
                      +5
                      Putting something good in your head. Bad - it will invest itself.
                      1. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 31 May 2021 11: 33
                        +6
                        Putting something good in your head.
                        Checked repeatedly - rejected. And what about the economy? At least a third of the economy is focused on the production of unnecessary things.
                      2. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 31 May 2021 15: 28
                        +4
                        Probably, during shocks, the excess is discarded.
                      3. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 31 May 2021 16: 15
                        +5
                        Probably, during shocks, the excess is discarded.

                        "Bloggers" and "rappers" will be devoured first? good
                      4. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 31 May 2021 17: 27
                        +4
                        Leonid Sergeev has a song:

                        "And the fat ones will go first ...".
                      5. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 31 May 2021 17: 30
                        +6
                        "And the fat ones will go first ...".

                        "The fat ones were eaten first ..." (feature film "Welcome to Zombie Land").
                      6. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 31 May 2021 17: 33
                        +5
                        Exactly the continuation:

                        “And not because they eat a lot.
                        But because they are fat.
                        And they will be eaten right away ”(c).
      2. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 31 May 2021 12: 43
        +6
        Fifty years and no people

        "If food disappears in the world, people will be able to feed on each other for a couple of years ..." (Sir Anthony, in the sense, Hannibal Lecter).
        Lying away from the main trade routes, Burma was a distant outlying province of the British Empire.

        Alexey, as far as I remember, England ate Burmese rice? And did she sell it? Until the dirty trick Yida came and his comrades gradually reached the border with India? drinks
        1. Bolt cutter
          Bolt cutter 31 May 2021 12: 53
          +4
          Rice Crisis of 1919? So there were problems (caused to a large extent by the sticking of rice by large speculators) with rice for the population of the Asian colonies (Malaya and Ceylon) - their agriculture was reoriented to other crops (tobacco / cotton) and the conquered peizans could do everything at once. sad ... England itself brought rice from almost everywhere in a little bit, and it was not particularly important for the British then.
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 31 May 2021 13: 13
            +6
            Rice Crisis of 1919?

            Didn't know about him, thanks! No, by "dirty trick Yida" I meant the Japanese general who was responsible for the conquest of Burma in 1942.
            England itself brought rice from almost everywhere in a little bit, and it was not particularly important for the British then.

            I did not find the war mentioned in the article:
            Borobodur was discovered during the Anglo-Dutch War of 1814.
            Possibly a typo. In 1814, according to Wikipedia, both sides, on the contrary, agreed on the return of the former Dutch colonies from the British back, in fact, to the Dutch. wassat
            Pay attention, "gentlemen" during any continental European turmoil began to beat ... on the colonies of opponents! wink He whistled quietly and left - they say, found! drinks So they squeezed Canada, in the same way, fifty years later, the Dutch colonies were seized. True, the latter were returned. Almost all. Outside Ceylon. laughing
            1. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 31 May 2021 13: 39
              +3
              began to beat ... on the colonies of opponents!
              Fatty pieces must be torn without leaving the checkout yes And they will not wait for help from the metropolis there.
            2. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 31 May 2021 14: 06
              +6
              And they will not wait for help from the metropolis there.

              Yes, because the English fleet was then the strongest. There is no one to wait.
            3. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 31 May 2021 14: 11
              +4
              English fleet
              I read here recently that leaving the EU saved Britain 5 Queen Elizabeth aircraft carriers (or 4 Vanguard submarines) a year! And the Scots who chose freedom and independence can save the same amount.
            4. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 31 May 2021 14: 13
              +6
              And the Scots who chose freedom and independence can save the same amount.

              And what, the exit of the proud kilton carriers from the United Kingdom will have a beneficial effect on the profits of England itself? hi The second question: what are the bagpipe lovers going to eat in case of their disconnection? wink Question number three: will they also choose a new king for themselves? Of the Stuarts not finished by history? wassat We can offer the Romanovs - they are still hanging around idle ...
            5. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 31 May 2021 15: 45
              +4
              will it have a beneficial effect on the profits of England itself?
              Such an outcome will have a beneficial effect on the spending of England - 15 billion is allocated to them as a subsidy to maintain an acceptable standard of living comparable to England. Without this, they will have an economic power like in Uruguay.
              what bagpipe lovers are going to eat
              Hope for accession and subsequent milking of the European Union.
              will they choose a new king for themselves?
              And here, as the classic says, hehe laughing According to the loyalists, this whole project was thrown by Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond to become not just high-ranking officials and politicians of Great Britain (which they are), but the rulers of their independent state. Salmond, according to drinking companions (by the way, he is an alcoholic pro smile does not remind anyone wassat ) also wants to inscribe himself in world history.
              Something like that, to simplify.
            6. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 31 May 2021 16: 07
              +6
              he also wants to write himself in world history.

              Gather the Highlanders, think of himself as Wallace, and go rob? wassat
              Such an outcome will have a beneficial effect on the spending of England.

              Spending is understandable. And what is the profit? For England?
              By the way, what is your forecast? Will those disconnect?
              And what popular garden culture (that is, horseradish - I repeat you from your article), forgive me, the heirs of the fighters against Adrian's shaft and the IX Legion personally - do they need this disconnection at all?
            7. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 31 May 2021 16: 19
              +5
              and go to rob?
              The first president of independent Scotland is not shit from the garden (again, it does not resemble anyone laughing ?) Will not go to rob - he will go beg in Brussels.
              And what is the profit? For England?
              In addition to the traditions of the Union and bases, by and large, nothing. They say, however, that not sickly oil and gas deposits are classified by the British in case of depletion of the Arab and African. First we eat yours, and then each his own yes
              personally, in general, this disconnection
              You will not believe - as Ukrainians, they think that their economy and culture will rise without the dictates of London wassat There are also just evil nationalists. But the Bolman wealthy people are against - real estate prices will plunge down by at least a third.
            8. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 31 May 2021 16: 30
              +3
              There are also just evil nationalists.

              In short, shit with all their disconnection? And yourself, and Britain, and the European Union?
              Do not go to rob - go beg in Brussels.

              It's good when you have someone to beg ...
              In addition to the traditions of the Union and bases, by and large, nothing.

              Alexey, I propose a bold plan. After the Brexit of this kilted Scottish gingerbread - on St. Kilda, president for life (if anything, for the uninitiated, this is the farthest island of the Outer Hebrides). In Scotland, call on "the Varangians in reverse." fellow No, not the Romanovs - they are in fig! stop There are already two other candidates ... bully Ports, you say? .. winked Great! drinks
            9. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 31 May 2021 16: 35
              +3
              on St Kilda, President for Life
              There is no distillery No. ... And he is widely known as an alcoholic - his bodyguards often carried him out of events.
              It's good when you have someone to beg.
              And here is an ambush - after Brexit (-15bn), they can only fit a couple of hundred thousand Negro Arabs.
              Two other candidates
              Navalny to them belay ? Nicola and Alex will not agree to this - they did not beat the power to share it.
            10. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 31 May 2021 16: 50
              +3
              And he is widely known as an alcoholic - his bodyguards often carried him out of events.

              There is a distillery in Penza that produces gin. 299 p. for a bottle in the store.

              We will write to Shpakovsky, he will send two boxes - and these two boxes to your pretzel on St. Kilda, and let him taste it until he tastes it. And it is cold there, and buildings without doors - will fall asleep still .. in a snowdrift ... wink And in return, from the grateful Scottish people - to Vyacheslav Olegovich, our trip to museums and castles. fellow Natural and cultural exchange! good drinks The world is gingerbread - gin and tonic! yes
              Two other candidates

              No, no, there are such guys - they scare the whole of Europe with them. yes Somewhere, someone farted in the wrong key - they say, they say - it's their fault! belay
            11. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 31 May 2021 16: 57
              +3
              will send two boxes
              Yes, you have pity on him, these two boxes for him - for the weekend wassat And why should he hang over on this island? By the way, according to insider information (an acquaintance was at the banquet, from where he was taken out) he drinks wine instead of single malt whiskey !!! I'm a patriot too sad
              299 p. per bottle
              Can you drink it or poison cockroaches? lol drinks
            12. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 31 May 2021 17: 01
              +4
              he drinks wine instead of single malt whiskey !!! I'm a patriot too

              Yes, for this one must apply the penalty for high treason, as to Hugh le Dispencer Jr.! angry Either a Mediterranean patriot or an active saboteur (banned on St Kilda). Spy, in short, tell them so!
              And why should he hang over on this island?

              Guano. There's nothing else there. And the banks are steep ... it will crawl, drunk, for some water ... somersault ... splash .. No pseudo-patriot! request
            13. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 31 May 2021 17: 06
              +3
              execution for treason
              Death through tumbo-jumbo wassat ?
              Guano. There's nothing else there
              By the way, there we will check whether he is an experienced alcoholic or so, an amateur. Experienced bottle even on a desert island finds yes
            14. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 31 May 2021 17: 13
              +3
              Death through tumbo-jumbo

              Under the Plantagenets, some were intricately executed ...
              By the way, there we will check whether he is an experienced alcoholic or so, an amateur. Experienced bottle even on a desert island finds

              Amateur. First, he dabbles in wine. And on St Kilda there are problems with grapes. Secondly, we will not give him a container ..! stop Let him look for deposits of clay, and knead the necessary vessels from it. A bottle, you know - it costs money! request
            15. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 31 May 2021 17: 20
              +2
              This is already cruelty to animals, article yes He's going to breaststroke back to Scotland like that.
  • depressant
    depressant 31 May 2021 09: 44
    +5
    Well, offhand. Creation of an environment of uncertainty and fear. A short-term period of such a situation leads only to a small number of heart attacks and strokes in especially frightened ones, a small number of excessive road and technological accidents, to a slight increase in crime, and in general is an invigorating circumstance, after overcoming which people sigh with relief and begin to enjoy life with a vengeance. Excess deaths are relatively few; they are made up for by the birth rate.
    Hence, it follows, as it were, that in order to utilize a significant surplus of the population, it must be constantly kept in fear and uncertainty about the future. And then the psychological pressure turns out to be such that mortality, as it were, increases by itself due to the above reasons. In combination with a fall in the birth rate (why bring a new person into such a life?), This leads to a significant reduction in the population and for a rather long period reduces the pressure of its demoralized remnants on the country's governing structures, which are therefore comfortable.
    However, the level of population decline by creating such a situation is poorly predicted, and bad consequences for the country as a whole are very easy.
    The set of circumstances as tools leading to the extinction of the country is extremely wide; they can be natural and artificial.
    Using the examples of this article: the surplus of the population leads to the depletion of water resources, which means we need to fight for them with our neighbors, and war is a utilizer of people. One circumstance entails another.
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 31 May 2021 11: 26
      +2
      If a person has fighting qualities, then he will gain confidence. Perhaps with experience.
      1. depressant
        depressant 31 May 2021 12: 31
        +3
        If you mean, say, Teotihuacan, which carries the features of a city-state, then it can be assumed that the shallowing of water sources, if not instantaneous, although this happens in nature, but quite noticeable and by the standards of human life, is fast dead end is a very seasoned and very experienced priestly government of the past centuries. Despite the fact that the only effective tool capable of appeasing the discontent of the population and simultaneously reducing its number in accordance with the scarce water resources was religion - the worship of the God of water!
        It's a paradox, isn't it?)))
        The water was running out, the population was slaughtered by the thousands as sacrifices to God - maybe he will have mercy! Detachments of the city guards committed atrocities, looking out for the disgruntled in the crowd gathered at the pyramid, so that not only with hope for the mercy of God, but also with cruel pleasure intertwined with horror, without stopping to watch as the priest rips out the heart of the next victim, and it trembles in his hand ...
        And this is all that the rulers-priests could give to the people, very confident in themselves and by the very same I can not gain experience of the previous centuries of the successful rule of their caste ancestors.
        However, the population was not homogeneous. While bloody rituals were happening day after day and murderous ball games continued, those who were smarter and more determined gathered families, relatives, belongings and quietly, so that the guards did not see, in search of flooded places, they first went to the surrounding forests, then further, they stumbled upon wild tribes, fought, partly died, partly survived, finding new places of permanent habitation, and created their own tribes. The high level of civilization was lost, only the vital skills of survival were retained.
        The city melted and eventually became empty. With the high fighting qualities of his leadership and the rich experience of the past. Because trust in God, but do not make a mistake yourself! Because they needed a science of a slightly different type than what they had. And a completely different type of leadership.
        What do I mean by the right type of leadership?
        This is the kind of leadership that can bring the interests of the most important strata of the population into line with the mutual satisfaction of these strata. That is, a leadership that expresses the interests of the entire people, and not the priestly caste. This was not the case in Teotihuacan. And the city became depopulated, civilization perished.
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 31 May 2021 15: 30
          +3
          When I realized the picture, when the person was burned with pulque, and then the heart was pulled out, I did not want to live in that environment. And drink pulque too.
          1. Bolt cutter
            Bolt cutter 31 May 2021 15: 52
            +5
            a man was burned with pulque
            It is worth noting that human feces were used in the manufacture of authentic pulque. wassat
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 31 May 2021 16: 55
              +3
              It is worth noting that human feces were used in the manufacture of authentic pulque.

              Do you remember that the proud Araucanian highlanders made a flute from the bones of Pedro Valdivia? belay
              1. Bolt cutter
                Bolt cutter 31 May 2021 17: 02
                +1
                proud Araucanian highlanders made a flute
                And than the drum was covered wassat ?
              2. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 31 May 2021 17: 05
                +3
                And than the drum was covered

                "Bikini area". yes
          2. Korsar4
            Korsar4 31 May 2021 17: 24
            +4
            Such information did not come across. What traditions are old.
            1. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 31 May 2021 17: 29
              +3
              The first whites were ready to endure sobriety, but not drink this drink. Then the least squeamish (and thirsty wassat ) decided to get rid of unnecessary distillation. So one Mexican told me.
            2. Korsar4
              Korsar4 31 May 2021 17: 31
              +4
              Is this the rationale for double distilling tequila?
              Yes, the Aztecs did not distill.
            3. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 31 May 2021 17: 37
              +3
              Well, yes, they did not know the technology of distillation. And they are not needed - extraordinary mushrooms grow there wassat ... By the way, I still remember how they were legally sold in stores in London (January 2015).
            4. Korsar4
              Korsar4 31 May 2021 19: 50
              +4
              I don't even know about mushrooms. However, all civilizations have their own ways of relieving stress.
            5. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 31 May 2021 19: 54
              +3
              I don’t know either. I only know that some, having seen the world of mushrooms, remained in that world. wassat ..
  • Richard
    Richard 31 May 2021 20: 00
    +4
    It is worth noting that human feces were used in the manufacture of authentic pulque.

    Well, this is a historical anecdote.
    In fact, the process of preparing the sacred drink was very strict. Due to the possibility of souring juice at any stage, the production of pulque is surrounded by superstitions and rituals. The workers prayed and sang religious songs, the sick, women, children or foreigners were not allowed into the room with the vats. Beliefs forbade workers to eat fish and meat during pulque fermentation, to wear a hat in the room where the drink was being prepared. Also, workers abstained from sex during this period, and smoking tobacco, believing that otherwise the pulque would turn sour. Smoking, blowing your nose, or God forbid farting into the room where the drink was prepared was considered a serious crime and was severely punished, up to the shameful (?) Death penalty.
    All these prohibitions were connected with the fact that agave must grow for about 12 years in order to make pulque from it, and the process of collecting juice destroys the plant
    link: Hui YH, Evranuz E.Ö. Pulleke. ancient rituals, beliefs and technologies of the Indians of South America. Handbook of Plant-Based Fermented Food and Beverage Technology, Second Edition. - CRC Press, 2012. - (Food science and technology).
    1. Bolt cutter
      Bolt cutter 31 May 2021 20: 05
      +4
      was considered a serious crime and was severely punished
      With the arrival of the conquistadors, it became clear that there was no one - white people had no time for this. Practically the conquistadors canceled all GOSTs on the bullet laughing
    2. Richard
      Richard 31 May 2021 20: 12
      +3
      The name pulque comes from the Nahuatl language: the Aztecs called it iztāc octli [ˈistaːk ˈokt͡ɬi] (white + "oktli", that is, what is now called pulque), and the term "pulque" is probably taken by mistake from the phrase octli poliuhqui [ˈokt͡ɬi poˈliwki], that is, "sour oktli".
      Agave has been used since ancient times by Mesoamerican peoples (it has been cultivated since at least 200 AD, but it is very likely that the invention of the drink dates back to the II millennium BC) Ropes and fabrics are made from the core, thorns are used as buttons and needles, and the film covering the leaves is used for food and papermaking. In Nahuatl, agave for pulque is called "broom".
      Pulque has been known since the 200s of our era, and the first major work dedicated to this drink was found in the Great Pyramid of Cholula. Juice fermentation can occur naturally, which is why it is believed that the most likely version of the pulque invention is observing rodents gnawing at the core of an agave to drink the juice.
      a photo... fragment of a fresco in the Great Pyramid of Cholula. Goddess Mayahual prepares agave pelke
    3. Richard
      Richard 31 May 2021 20: 16
      +3
      a photo... traditional Mexican alcoholic drink Pulque
    4. Bolt cutter
      Bolt cutter 31 May 2021 20: 22
      +3
      Vague doubts creep in that the swill for extreme tourists, shown in the photo, was made according to GOST without farting in the process.
    5. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 1 June 2021 09: 44
      +3
      shown in the photo was made in accordance with GOST without farting in the process.

      The whole party was spoiled! crying
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 31 May 2021 20: 45
    +3
    Sounds like the truth. The agave stalk should reach a weight of 35 to 100 kg. Now agave grows on plantations faster.

    And there is also an option - the peduncle is cut off, and for some time the juice is collected. How a cow is milked.
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 1 June 2021 09: 43
    +4
    ref: Hui YH, Evranuz E.Ö.

    What an interesting surname the first scientist has. what This one knows everything for sure, as they say in Russia ... wassat
  • depressant
    depressant 31 May 2021 16: 51
    +3
    Agave once grew in my yard. Hefty and even bloomed once, releasing a pole with white flowers. Nobody knew that it could be made into a pulque. "Pulque" was made from grape pomace, and it was called chacha wassat )))
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 31 May 2021 17: 24
      +3
      Yes. The agave peduncle is noticeable.
    2. Bolt cutter
      Bolt cutter 31 May 2021 17: 26
      +4
      Agave once grew in my yard
      Agave tequilana, the same blue agave that accumulates agavins in the rhizome (sugars inherent only in it) grows only in the highlands from 1500 meters. The other will not work. Beet-Russian agave!
      1. depressant
        depressant 31 May 2021 17: 53
        +5
        Note, not red, but white, the so-called sugar, with hefty tubers, it is also used for pet food. In the Kuban, this is grown, and yes - they drive "pulque" out of it))))
      2. Bolt cutter
        Bolt cutter 31 May 2021 17: 55
        +3
        they drive "pulque" out of it))))
        In Ukraine, a "buryachikha" is driven out of it - from which the eyes themselves are stretched to the fifth point.
      3. depressant
        depressant 31 May 2021 18: 02
        +5
        Apparently, by the degree of pulling the eyes to the fifth point, they determine the degree of the resulting exquisite drink laughing )))
      4. Bolt cutter
        Bolt cutter 31 May 2021 18: 03
        +4
        I personally observed how even top-class drunks twisted from a half-facet yes
  • Richard
    Richard 31 May 2021 20: 46
    +4
    Agave once grew in my yard

    I'm growing near the aviary
    1. depressant
      depressant 31 May 2021 21: 08
      +3
      Oh fan palms! So you are from those places, Dmitry, from the south?)))
    2. Richard
      Richard 31 May 2021 21: 15
      +4
      Oh fan palms!

      I will go out under the palm tree, I will look at the village
      girls walk and I have fun (s) laughing
      So you are from those places, Dmitry, from the south?

      Stavropol
    3. Richard
      Richard 31 May 2021 21: 22
      +4
      By the way, here is a famous photo from our place - agaves at the site of Lermontov's duel. Mount Mashuk
    4. depressant
      depressant 31 May 2021 22: 06
      +4
      Yes, I somehow did not consider the Stavropol region to be the south. Relatives constantly talked about the cold winter and huge summer dry winds. And now, it turns out, the south, agaves, palms ...
      The climate seems to have changed.
      Glad for you, Dmitry!))))
    5. Richard
      Richard 31 May 2021 22: 26
      +4
      Yes, I somehow did not consider the Stavropol region to be the south.

      Well, thank God! Calling the North Caucasus the South is a well-known phrase about the Unified State Exam. laughing
      And our climate is characterized by mild winters and hot summers. I live near Pyatigorsk. Cold winters and summer dry winds are more towards the Tersko-Kumskaya lowland (Nogai steppe)
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 1 June 2021 01: 11
    +3
    Nice composition.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 31 May 2021 13: 41
    +2
    Simply, in our country, Konquista was considered for a long time from the one-sided point of view of Grigulevich.

    Anton, I do not know about Grigulevich, but the first to voice in defense of the indigenous aborigines of America was the Dominican Las Casas. The good monk did not like the behavior of his compatriots in the newly acquired lands. hi
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 31 May 2021 13: 47
      +3
      Hi!
      Googled about Grigulevich. I started reading. It took me a hundred pages.
      1. depressant
        depressant 31 May 2021 13: 54
        +4
        Anton, are you able to read ... primary sources? good )))
        Where can I get such patience wassat )))
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 31 May 2021 14: 00
          +5
          Where can I get such patience

          Lyudmila Yakovlevna, our honored minstrel is generally very well-read .. I give a tooth, as he personally knows him. yes
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 31 May 2021 14: 15
            +3
            Uh-huh.
            "I look, Furmanov is coming towards him. So well-read, well-read !!!"
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 31 May 2021 14: 17
              +4
              "I look, Furmanov is coming towards him. So well-read, well-read !!!"

              - And also put on glasses! Intellectual! laughing
          2. depressant
            depressant 31 May 2021 14: 38
            +5
            Good Lord ... Already my hands were shaking with embarrassment, and my legs went to the knyxen by themselves. Really? Is the descendant really scared to say who? crying )))
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 31 May 2021 14: 12
          +3
          Grigulevich is still the primary source wassat
          1. depressant
            depressant 31 May 2021 14: 42
            +4
            It doesn't matter that he is like this wassat
            The original source, which is like a monument, should evoke awe of respect, humble reverence and the laying of a wreath at the foot.
            The main thing is not to touch it with your hands! A relic, yeah ...
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 31 May 2021 14: 53
              +2
              The main thing is not to touch it with your hands! A relic, yeah ...

              The relic is the archives. hi But getting to them is very difficult. Bureaucratic. But. when you pick up a thick folder about the tests of "small-caliber rifles", or hold in your hands Nagan's letter with the attached translation from Lieutenant N .., then you understand - these are really treasures! good
              Also - old editions. I was lucky to download the diary of Pavel Petrovich's first teacher, Semyon Poroshin. Edition 1844. You know, perhaps this is one of the most interesting and fascinating books that I came across! Extremely easy despite the old alphabet. For example, here is an excerpt for September 21, 1764 - the schedule of roles at the masquerade. Isn't that a miracle? First edition! yes
              1. depressant
                depressant 31 May 2021 15: 19
                +4
                Nikolay, yes, you, it turns out, are also from the Celestials, close to the innermost. Not being afraid of this word, I bow to people who have access not only to hold archival documents in their hands, and then respectfully return the folder to its place, but also to study them thoughtfully.
                And there must be a special feeling overwhelming. After all, these pages were touched by the hands of people who lived decades, or even centuries ago, there are traces of their touches on them! It's like shaking hands through the ages.
                1. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 31 May 2021 16: 03
                  +3
                  Nikolay, yes you, it turns out, are also from the Celestials, close to the innermost.

                  It was once, and it’s not true. lol
                  After all, these pages were touched by the hands of people who lived decades, or even centuries ago, there are traces of their touches on them! It's like shaking hands through the ages.

                  1890 The uppercase decoding of the date numbers read: "one thousand eight hundred and ninetieth"... So then they wrote! yes
                  who can not only hold archival documents in their hands, and then respectfully return the folder to its place, but also study them thoughtfully.

                  To photograph twenty pages, I had to go there for almost a month! request Because first fill out the application, then the contract, then something else. And for each act you need to come separately - and the archive works twice a week, and during working hours. All this - for the sake of 20 sheets of photos! hi
                  1. depressant
                    depressant 31 May 2021 16: 24
                    +4
                    Just for the sake of 20 sheets ... Apparently, the precedents were in that Archive, stolen, spoiled. Here's where to transgress:
                    The vault was jam-packed with interesting books in all languages ​​of the world and history, from the Atlantean language to Pidgin English inclusive. But there I was most interested in the multivolume edition of the Book of Fates. The Book of Destinies was printed in petite form on the finest rice paper and contained, in chronological order, more or less complete data on 73 619 024 511 homo sapiens. The first volume began with Pithecanthropus Ayuykhh. (“Born 2 Aug. 965 543 BC, d. 13 Jan. 965 522 BC. Parents of Ramapithecus. Wife of Ramapithecus. Children: male Ad-Amm, female E-Ua. Wandering with a tribe of Ramapithecs along the Ararat valleys. Ate, drank, slept for pleasure. I dug the first hole in the stone. A cave bear was eaten during the hunt. "
                  2. Pane Kohanku
                    Pane Kohanku 31 May 2021 16: 39
                    +2
                    Apparently, the precedents were in that Archive, stolen, spoiled.

                    You just need to simplify the procedure and workflow. And so - people are sitting on a sack of gold, but they cannot open it. If we simplify the system, there will be more applications and, accordingly, money. Where to put them - for the development of the organization or worthy employees - can be decided by the management. hi
                    Shpakovsky had a wonderful example when the Swedes sent him a drawing of a tank of the 20s - for free! And here ... that's it! request
                  3. depressant
                    depressant 31 May 2021 17: 01
                    +4
                    You just need to simplify the procedure and workflow.

                    And where to put the superfluous official from the workflow?
                    As the disgraced deputy Mitrofanov said, addressing the public: "Do you think it was you who took power in 91? No, it was we, officials, who took power!" And further from his speech it followed that not the tsars ruled Russia and not the general secretaries of the USSR, but officials. So try to reduce the workflow. They are being reduced, but the numbers are growing.
        3. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 31 May 2021 15: 26
          +3
          I unlearned to touch the "imperishable" in Catalonia.
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 31 May 2021 15: 32
            +2
            Have you fined?
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 31 May 2021 15: 48
              +3
              No, he didn't want to. I'll tell you later.
              1. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 31 May 2021 15: 52
                +4
                No, he didn't want to. I'll tell you later.

                You were offered to touch the mummy, but you refused because you ate ice cream? belay
              2. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 31 May 2021 16: 19
                +3
                Mummies are in the Parisian catacombs. Although, in Barcelona, ​​perhaps, too.
        4. depressant
          depressant 31 May 2021 17: 17
          +3
          Anton:
          I unlearned to touch the "imperishable" in Catalonia.

          You can only stare at the "imperishable"! And then, what good, it will crumble wassat ))))
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 31 May 2021 18: 17
            +2
            No, in Figueiros, in the Dali Theater-Museum, the artist's personal collection is on display. One of the exhibits, a small portrait, I don't know whose work, but very similar to El Greco's technique. The picture is located so that you can touch with your hand. And I was already stretching, but something stopped me ...
            Since then, and already seven years have passed, the desire to touch arose only once, and that was not on my initiative.
            1. depressant
              depressant 31 May 2021 19: 10
              +2
              Someone mysteriously dressed up your senses and turned them into an irresistible desire to touch ...
              It was your second self! ))))
              You will deal with him on occasion. And then you never know wassat )))
  • Richard
    Richard 31 May 2021 19: 31
    +3
    Thank you for the article. Read with great interest
  • ism_ek
    ism_ek 2 June 2021 05: 05
    -2
    Quote: VlR
    the walls of the functioning pyramid temples were covered with a thick layer of sintered blood.

    This is all nonsense. They drum into us that the colonization brought "fire to the wild tribes" of the barbarians))).
    I advise everyone who is interested in the topic to watch the cycle of documentaries "Ancient Empires of Southeast Asia."
  • tlauicol
    tlauicol 31 May 2021 08: 15
    +4
    In the dock life, he managed to stand on the top of one of the pyramids in Altun-Ha, Belize. Next to the excavated there were several more, covered with a thick layer of turf and vegetation, others had already been cleared of bushes, but not excavated.
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 31 May 2021 09: 42
    -2
    Quote: VlR
    , once again convinced that the Spaniards during the conquest saved many more people than killed

    are you talking about infectious diseases brought in by the Spaniards (smallpox, plague, diphtheria, measles, scarlet fever, typhoid and tuberculosis), to which the Indians did not have immunity, about the numerous group suicides of Indians from overwork, mass executions, or that their number in the 17th century decreased, according to various sources, from 25-1,5 million to XNUMX million people , i.e 11-16 times.?

    The article is excellent, plus.

    And to see the Mayan pyramid
    , it is enough to come to the capital:

    :
    1. VLR
      31 May 2021 09: 56
      +4
      I'm talking about the expedition of Cortez, not its far-reaching consequences. However, the Spaniards were less racist than the Anglo-Saxons. If a native accepted Christianity, he received certain rights, the leaders - the nobility, the Spaniards did not hesitate to officially marry local women. Instead of the "state of migrants" with the aborigines driven into reservations, as in the United States, in Mexico there was a state of Creoles.
      It is curious that now in the USA and Western Europe the pendulum has swung in the other direction and these states have begun to "drift" towards South Africa.
      1. Bolt cutter
        Bolt cutter 31 May 2021 10: 33
        +1
        in Mexico, the state of Creoles turned out.
        Beggar Creoles. Unlike the United States, which became the first economy in the world.
      2. Olgovich
        Olgovich 31 May 2021 10: 53
        -1
        .
        Quote: VlR
        However, the Spaniards were less racist than the Anglo-Saxons. If a native accepted Christianity, he received certain rights, the leaders - the nobility, the Spaniards did not hesitate to officially marry local women.

        Of course, the Spaniards turned out to be much more human than the Anglo-Saxons: Indians, as well as mestizos, mulattos, Sambo make up a significant part of the population of South and Central America and play a big role in the life of their countries.

        What is not even in sight in the USA and Canada, where they remained at the exotic level ...
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 31 May 2021 10: 42
    +2
    Colleagues, Valery, hello. I'm glad I didn't wait very long for adequate material.
    With friends we read and admire illustrations
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 31 May 2021 11: 00
    +2
    "form than isosceles triangles that make up the body of a 37 meter snake."
    Hello, this is Katya. Just think about the skill of the ancient builders ?!
    You know, involuntarily, you suspect the intervention of otherworldly forces: if they could then build in this way, then knowledge should be added over time? And there, for some reason, regression began
    1. Hantengri
      Hantengri 1 June 2021 00: 19
      +2
      Quote: Astra wild2
      You know, involuntarily, you suspect the intervention of otherworldly forces: if they could then build in this way, then knowledge should be added over time? And there, for some reason, regression began

      Well ... If the bearers of knowledge are genocidal a little ... Or they can be deprived of the material base, driving them from their homes and driving them into forests, deserts, tundra, etc., unpleasant places, thereby putting the ethnos on the brink of survival, then in a couple of generations no one already, from this ethnic group, and will not remember about "high" technologies, as unnecessary. Or the ethnos itself can gobble up all the resources available to it, with the same result as on Easter Island, for example.
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 31 May 2021 12: 33
    +2
    "this led to soil erosion and shallowing of clean shallow lakes" in other words: ecology and human existence is an eternal problem.
    P.
    S
    Nature rested a little during the general lockdown: car emissions were minimized, there was practically no air transportation, and these are the main destroyers of the environment. Perhaps COVID is nature's revenge?
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 31 May 2021 12: 51
    +1
    "you can distinguish the head of the fabulous snake Par, and where is his wife Nagini?
  • Undecim
    Undecim 31 May 2021 15: 30
    +8
    The last of them was discovered in 2004 by an expedition led by the Italian archaeologist Francisco Estrada-Belli. It is located in one of the poorly studied areas in the northeast of Guatemala - near Siwal.

    This is far from the last. In 2018, in the north of Guatemala, in the El Petén department, another city was found using laser scanning.

    The jungle is good at hiding its secrets.

    And this is the result of laser scanning.
  • Normal ok
    Normal ok 1 June 2021 10: 06
    +2
    When you read the article, you immediately remember R. Haggard "The Treasures of Montezuma"