Military Review

Captured "Centurions": British armor in Kubinka

53

"Centurion" in Kubinka. 80s. Source: andrei-bt.livejournal.com


"Centurions" are losers


It's hard to hide an awl in a bag. Especially when this awl weighs more than 45 tons and is adopted by 14 states. Such was the British "Centurion", which first came to the USSR in 1952 among the trophies of the Korean War. It was the newest modification of the Mk-3, equipped with an 83,8mm cannon. We must pay tribute, "Centurion" alive to the enemy did not surrender, thoroughly burned out from the inside and lost ammunition. A gift from the North Koreans was sent to Kubinka for visual inspection. As it turned out, alive at tank only the armor, observation devices and partly the engine remained.


"Centurion" in the modern exposition of the tank museum in Kubinka. Photo by the author

The next time "Centurion" was captured only in 1971.

During the conflict between Israel and Syria, two tanks in good condition were captured by the Syrians and transported to Moscow. These were tanks of the Mk-9 and Mk-10 modifications. Two years later, two more armored vehicles in the performance of Mk-3 and Mk-7, which were modernized in Israel, went to the USSR from the Middle East. By the way, in the same batch, the Syrians sent the American M60A1 tank to the Soviet Union, which also later became an object for study in Kubinka.

There is a slight discrepancy with the information spread on the Internet and data from the "Bulletin of armored vehicles". In 1978, in a secret publication at that time, the material "Armor protection of the British tank" Centurion "was published, which dealt with four machines under the indexes Mk-3, Mk-9, Mk-9A and Mk-10. At the same time, the tank received the name Mk-9A arbitrarily from the authors of the article - military engineers Korolev and Naumik. The fact is that additional 45 mm thick armor was welded onto the upper frontal part of this tank, so it was decided to add the letter "A" as a sign of modernization.

However, where did this second "nine" come from? Didn't they recognize the Mk-7 modification in Kubinka and mistakenly call it the Mk-9A?

This is hard to believe. And, most likely, modern commentators are confusing something in the classification of British tanks. Moreover, the car had as many as 13 versions, sometimes very seriously different from each other.

The study of captured British "Centurions" for the Soviet military industry and science in the 70s was of purely sporting interest. The tanks have already been discontinued and obsolete.

By that time, the British were already armed with "Chiefs", and in the USSR - T-64 and T-72. Nevertheless, Kubinka was very attentive to the study of the tank. The thing is that the Centurions, along with the Soviet T-55 and T-62, were second-line vehicles and often fought with each other in local conflicts. The allies of the USSR fought with the allies of the NATO bloc. And the study of enemy technology could give impetus to the modernization of domestic tanks in third countries. Or pick up the keys to the weak points of the British car.

"Centurions" blow up


British tanks did not make much of an impression on Russian engineers. The tank is heavy, the armor is mediocre. And there was nothing to say about weapons. In the very first skirmish, the IS-3, similar in weight, would have butchered its opponent under a nut with a 122 mm gun back in the early fifties.

During the entire life cycle, the British did not change the composition and manufacturing technology of the Centurion armor. Only the thickness varied, naturally increasing from model to model. The Mk-3, Mk-9 and Mk-10 tanks have almost identical armor chemistry. These are medium-hard chromium-nickel-molybdenum steel for the hull and manganese-nickel-molybdenum steel for the cast tower.

Among the features of the technology for the production of tanks, Soviet engineers noted the widespread use of welding. With the high quality of workmanship and accuracy of fitting parts, the British did not cut the edges of the armor plates before welding. And this, as rightly noted in the "Bulletin of armored vehicles", reduces the survivability of armor in case of shell fire.

The tanks that entered the USSR in 1973 and were modernized in Israel were subjected to detonation tests. The Israelis reinforced the bottom of the engine compartment and mounted the power plant from the American M60A1 tank. Engineers do not provide accurate data on the test methodology for the Centurion, but the results say that the Briton had a hard time.

Explosives "Plastit-4" were used for testing, from which, in particular, elongated charges were made to undermine the tracks. The method provided in all cases to bury the charge 8–10 cm into the ground. At least several TNT charges were tested against the Centurions' undercarriage. It turned out that the 7-kilogram landmine not only guaranteed to break the caterpillar, but put two rollers out of action at once. With a fortunate combination of circumstances, the 2,7-kilogram charge was capable of immobilizing the Centurion. On average, to disable the track of a British tank, 10-12% less charge was required than, for example, for the T-72 tank.

The placement of suspension elements outside the hull of the tank turned out to be the weak point of the British suspension. The aforementioned 7-kilogram TNT charge destroyed the attachment of the trolley to the body and bent the axis of the balancer. On the one hand, it was theoretically easy for tankers to repair the suspension - the units were located outside the hull and were quite accessible. On the other hand, only removing the suspension bogie required a 1,1 tonne lifting device. Interestingly, the shock absorbers were not damaged in any series of detonations. As suggested by Soviet engineers, everything happened due to the low efficiency of these suspension elements.


Centurion Mk-3 at the Borden Museum of Canada. Source: ru.wikipedia.org

When, in one of the experiments, a 7,2-kilogram land mine was detonated under the Centurion's track, the bottom of the tank was also hit. The deflection was small - only 2,5 mm. But he could also have a significant traumatic effect on the crew.

When we moved on to the explosions of mines directly under the bottom of the tank, everything turned out to be very deplorable. 3,2 kg of TNT caused a residual deflection of almost 22 mm. The role of the backbone was played by a 5,5 mm thick partition in the control compartment of the tank, connecting the bottom and armor plates of the hull roof. This partition increased the rigidity of the bottom well, and all residual deflections were formed on the sides of it. It was due to the partition in the control compartment that the tank withstood an explosion under the bottom of a 7,2-kilogram land mine. At the same time, residual deflections reached 120 mm and guaranteed to disable the driver. But no breaks in the bottom were observed.

When test engineers laid a similar charge under the MTO, the explosion tore the bottom and left a 175-mm deflection. All this happened, despite the efforts of the Israelis in the direction of strengthening the mine resistance of the bottom of the MTO. Yes, and with anti-cumulative screens on the sides of the tank too clever. The mountings were made too flimsy, and when the landmines were detonated, the steel protection elements were scattered for tens of meters around.

Finally, one Mk-10 Centurion was tested for resistance to gamma radiation. The tank was developed during the Second World War and was structurally not adapted to withstand radioactive radiation. The crew had to rely only on the thickness of the armor. It was possible to carry out not only full-scale tests of the British tank, but also to compare it with similar parameters of the American М60А1 and М48А3.

Worst of all in the "Centurion" in a nuclear explosion will have a driver-mechanic - near him gamma radiation is attenuated by only 10 times. For comparison, a tank commander and gunner can count on 80 or even 100 times the absorption of deadly radiation. The results of similar tests of American vehicles showed similar results.












"Army-2018". The last of the "Centurions" that came to Russia. The state is worse than ever. Source: vitalykuzmin.net

As it turned out, the "Centurions" captured in the 50s and 70s were not the last for our country.

In 2018, the remains of a British tank used by Syrian militants were brought to Russia. The tank was most likely one of the trophies of one of the many skirmishes between Syria and Israel in the past.
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53 comments
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  1. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 29 May 2021 06: 03
    +7
    Eh ma! Something such "characteristics" do not really correspond to Jewish "enthusiasm" about the "high (!) Reliability of" centurions "! As I have heard, in Israel, chela is not taken into the army without parental consent if he is the only child in the family ! The only units where parents "willingly" release their only sons are armored units, staffed by "centurions"!
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 29 May 2021 07: 19
      +14
      Hi Nikolaevich, I also heard this bike in the 90s! True, even then they talked about her in the past tense.
      About the IS-3 in the article of the butchering Centurion - "like a kite to a partridge", not everything is so "transparent". If we take the performance characteristics, then yes, the Chelyabinsk heavy weight of its counterpart from Foggy Albion is superior in everything, except for the sights and the quality of armor. Although the debut of hundreds of ISs on the Sinai Peninsula is excellent, the language does not turn out to be. Since the space between the "levers and the seat" maden Egypt and maden Israel had different training, motivation and commitment to win.
      The Centurion, on the other hand, is arguably the most successful British tank ever built for the British tank industry. It cannot be taken away from him.
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 29 May 2021 07: 34
        +9
        Nevertheless, the Centurions did not fail on the BV and also shot many enemies. And against them were already IS3 and T54 and, then already, T62. I don’t remember, did you put the L7 105mm cannon on it?
        1. Revolver
          Revolver 29 May 2021 07: 47
          +13
          Quote: Zaurbek
          I don’t remember, did you put the L7 105mm cannon on it?

          They put it in the Israeli modification "Sho't Cal Dalet".
          1. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 29 May 2021 09: 35
            +6
            There was also Elephant .... modernization.
          2. Nikolaevich I
            Nikolaevich I 29 May 2021 10: 18
            +7
            Quote: Nagan
            They put it in the Israeli modification "Sho't Cal Dalet".

            With what fright? The 105-mm L7 cannon was first installed in the English (!) "Centurion" Mk9 in 1959 .... This "model" and others were supplied to a number of countries ... Israel began to buy and put on its "centurions" 105-mm guns since 1961 ... If I am not mistaken, "centurions" with 105-mm guns already installed from England were delivered to Israel!
      2. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 29 May 2021 09: 04
        +3
        I wish you good health, Vladislav! hi As for the "past tense", it is true (!) ... I forgot to mention something about the "past tense" and that the "centurions" are already in the past! Well, I hope that the "people" understand everything perfectly well without my explanations! By the way, the "centurions" MK9,10 were already equipped with 105-mm cannons and diesels ...
      3. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 29 May 2021 19: 01
        +6
        "About the IS-3 in the article of the butchering Centurion -" like a kite a partridge ", not everything is so" transparent "///
        ---
        In practice, exactly the opposite happened. smile
        The centurions knocked out almost all the Egyptian IS-3s advancing in Sinai.
        The ISs failed to accurately apply their powerful weapon. If they
        fell, then exactly - "Like a kite to a partridge." But the rate of fire of ISs was low and
        and the LMS unsuccessful.
        As a result, the ISs were defeated, some of them were taken as trophies.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 29 May 2021 21: 38
          -2
          Did you try to read the comment completely?
          I'm afraid in a different reality, when the levers of the ISs would be Soviet servicemen, then the Centurions of your compatriots were in the trophies.
          So walk like a peacock in front of the Arabs, with the Russians you are like everyone else - only in the back or with someone else's hands. Do you remember the death of the guys in Ila?
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 29 May 2021 23: 32
            -1
            "Do you remember the death of the guys in Ile?"
            ----
            Syrian major who fired two missiles into large, slowly flying target,
            explained in a simple way that he had received permission to open fire from the Khmeimim base.
            And then he knows nothing further. The major was not tried.
            Israeli F-16s at the time of the death of Ila flew near Haifa on the way
            to the base.
          2. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 30 May 2021 00: 56
            0
            Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
            I'm afraid in a different reality, when the levers of the ISs would be Soviet servicemen, then the Centurions of your compatriots were in the trophies.

            This is a common excuse for fans of Soviet weapons. And the Arabs spoiled their air defense, and the tanks.
            1. In the 67th year, the IS-3 was decent rubbish. After all, the time has come for the T-64, the Panthers were a little out of date.
            2. Naturally, complex weapons require good handling. The Chiefs did not really help the Iranians, what kind of IS-3 they were. However, it is difficult to remember where the Soviet army showed such good management. Is it really in Afghanistan?
            Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
            Do you remember the death of the guys in Ila?

            This is the one that shot down the beautiful Soviet missiles? Is it some kind of achievement to shoot down a propeller-driven aircraft?
      4. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 30 May 2021 00: 48
        +1
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        About the IS-3 in the article of the butchering Centurion - "like a kite to a partridge", not everything is so "transparent". If you take the performance characteristics,

        It's just pretty transparent. The 84mm cannon with APCR projectiles did not like sloping armor, so it posed a threat mainly when the turret was hit in the forehead - at a small angle, it penetrated 25 cm at any real range. The pike nose was more stable. But the D-25T did not penetrate 20-25 cm of the Englishman's frontal armor at any distance. Mobility, reliability, rate of fire are also on the side of the Englishman.
    2. A. Privalov
      A. Privalov 29 May 2021 08: 56
      +9
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      Eh ma! Something such "characteristics" do not really correspond to Jewish "enthusiasm" about the "high (!) Reliability of" centurions "! As I have heard, in Israel, chela is not taken into the army without parental consent if he is the only child in the family ! The only units where parents "willingly" release their only sons are armored units, staffed by "centurions"!

      Quite right. Fifty years ago, any alternative, in the eyes of parents, looked even worse.
      1. Petrik66
        Petrik66 29 May 2021 12: 31
        +2
        Great answer))))
      2. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 30 May 2021 00: 57
        0
        Quote: A. Privalov
        Fifty years ago, any alternative, in the eyes of parents, looked even worse.

        Yes, the cent is well armored even compared to the M48, not to mention the Sherman.
    3. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 29 May 2021 12: 10
      +5
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      Eh ma! Something such "characteristics" do not really correspond to Jewish "enthusiasm" about the "high (!) Reliability of" centurions "! As I have heard, in Israel, chela is not taken into the army without parental consent if he is the only child in the family ! The only units where parents "willingly" release their only sons are armored units, staffed by "centurions"!

      In the air defense. There is a revised slogan about tanks in Israel from “people wins in the tank - the man in the tank burns out faster hi
  2. Snail N9
    Snail N9 29 May 2021 06: 04
    +16
    Some kind of scanty description of a good tank. More and more about mines and the bottom. And what about durability in different projections, but what about observation devices, habitability, weapons, other equipment, and so on?
  3. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 29 May 2021 07: 14
    +4
    I would like to thank the author for the narrow but interesting sector of the confrontation between armor and explosives of a single tank.
    I read everything without flipping through.
    1. Maki Avellevich
      Maki Avellevich 29 May 2021 09: 58
      +5
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      I would like to thank the author for the narrow but interesting sector of the confrontation between armor and explosives of a single tank.
      I read everything without flipping through.

      here is a video that will add some information on the topic:

  4. A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 29 May 2021 08: 54
    +18
    All the Israeli "Centurions" inherited by the USSR were no longer actually "Centurions". It was a product of a rather serious rework from the Israeli military industry. Hence the confusion in the markings. It was not easy to identify them.

    Already since 1959, when a beggar, agrarian Israel could afford to buy only used tanks from overhaul, his native 84-mm cannon (and there were even 3-mm guns on the MK-74), they began to replace them with the 105-mm L7 cannon. In Israel, the "Centurions" even changed their name to "Shot" ("Knut").

    But the main modernization of the "Shot" tanks began in 1969, at the Israeli tank repair plant, the English water-cooled gasoline engine "Meteor" was replaced by the American Continental AVDS-1790-2АС air-cooled diesel engine manufactured by Continental Motors.
    The mechanical transmission was replaced by the CD850-6 hydromechanical transmission.
    The engine compartment was re-configured for a new engine cooling system.
    Armored air filters were installed on the fenders, and the tank's electrical system was replaced. The armor also received a number of changes and additions.

    The modernization was designed to increase mobility, cruising range, simplify control, and reduce fire hazard, by switching to diesel fuel. In addition, the new diesel engines had a much longer service life than the outdated English Meteors. The tank's ammunition has increased to 72 rounds. The tank was very durable and maintainable. This turned out to be very useful in future battles. The PfP mechanics repaired very serious damage overnight and sent the tanks back to the front line.
    The upgraded tanks were named "Shot Kal" and served in the IDF armored forces for over 30 years.

    A total of 1100 units were purchased. They were not taken because they were very good or even just wonderful tanks. No, it was relatively cheap, this is what Israel could afford then. Defense spending exceeded 20% of GDP. Defense articles consumed almost a third of the state budget. Denied themselves everything that was possible. A country with three million inhabitants lacked skilled workers.

    So, the tank showed itself in a combat situation pretty well. In the Arab-Israeli wars, he confronted both the T-34-85 of WW2, the T-54/55 - of the fifties, and the fresh, still greased T-62.
    Of course, the IS-3 would have smashed it to smithereens with direct fire into the side, and if Soviet specialists did not spend 7 kg of TNT under the tracks on the strength tests of the tank, but put a 40 gram checker, but in a good place in the ammunition area , the result would be even more impressive.

    And the most important secret of the success of these tanks was that Israel does not have the Volga to which it could retreat, there is no Urals for which it would be possible to evacuate a part of the population and industry, and then, having gathered forces, go over to the counteroffensive. The country 400x120 (at its widest point) has no alternatives.
    Tankers studied literally day and night. They did not spare the shells for firing practice. Military experts have developed a number of tactical techniques and techniques for using tanks in various conditions. All this made it possible to resist superior enemy forces in a future war.
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 29 May 2021 10: 35
      +6
      Quote: A. Privalov
      Already since 1959, when a beggar, agrarian Israel could afford to buy only used tanks from overhaul, his native 84-mm cannon (and there were even 3-mm guns on the MK-74), they began to replace them with the 105-mm L7 cannon.

      In 1959, the L7 appeared on the English (!) Tank "Centurion" Mk9 ... Israel bought and began to put on its "centurions" Mk5 and Mk7 105-mm cannons from 1961 .... Moreover, from England were supplied and "Centurions" Mk5 with 105-mm cannons already installed ... 76-mm cannon was installed only on "Centurions" Mk1 and 2 ... 3 (84) -mm guns were already installed on Mk83,8 ...
    2. Usher
      Usher 29 May 2021 20: 01
      -2
      Quote: A. Privalov
      All the Israeli "Centurions" inherited by the USSR were no longer actually "Centurions". It was a product of a rather serious rework from the Israeli military industry. Hence the confusion in the markings. It was not easy to identify them.

      Already since 1959, when a beggar, agrarian Israel could afford to buy only used tanks from overhaul, his native 84-mm cannon (and there were even 3-mm guns on the MK-74), they began to replace them with the 105-mm L7 cannon. In Israel, the "Centurions" even changed their name to "Shot" ("Knut").

      But the main modernization of the "Shot" tanks began in 1969, at the Israeli tank repair plant, the English water-cooled gasoline engine "Meteor" was replaced by the American Continental AVDS-1790-2АС air-cooled diesel engine manufactured by Continental Motors.
      The mechanical transmission was replaced by the CD850-6 hydromechanical transmission.
      The engine compartment was re-configured for a new engine cooling system.
      Armored air filters were installed on the fenders, and the tank's electrical system was replaced. The armor also received a number of changes and additions.

      The modernization was designed to increase mobility, cruising range, simplify control, and reduce fire hazard, by switching to diesel fuel. In addition, the new diesel engines had a much longer service life than the outdated English Meteors. The tank's ammunition has increased to 72 rounds. The tank was very durable and maintainable. This turned out to be very useful in future battles. The PfP mechanics repaired very serious damage overnight and sent the tanks back to the front line.
      The upgraded tanks were named "Shot Kal" and served in the IDF armored forces for over 30 years.

      A total of 1100 units were purchased. They were not taken because they were very good or even just wonderful tanks. No, it was relatively cheap, this is what Israel could afford then. Defense spending exceeded 20% of GDP. Defense articles consumed almost a third of the state budget. Denied themselves everything that was possible. A country with three million inhabitants lacked skilled workers.

      So, the tank showed itself in a combat situation pretty well. In the Arab-Israeli wars, he confronted both the T-34-85 of WW2, the T-54/55 - of the fifties, and the fresh, still greased T-62.
      Of course, the IS-3 would have smashed it to smithereens with direct fire into the side, and if Soviet specialists did not spend 7 kg of TNT under the tracks on the strength tests of the tank, but put a 40 gram checker, but in a good place in the ammunition area , the result would be even more impressive.

      And the most important secret of the success of these tanks was that Israel does not have the Volga to which it could retreat, there is no Urals for which it would be possible to evacuate a part of the population and industry, and then, having gathered forces, go over to the counteroffensive. The country 400x120 (at its widest point) has no alternatives.
      Tankers studied literally day and night. They did not spare the shells for firing practice. Military experts have developed a number of tactical techniques and techniques for using tanks in various conditions. All this made it possible to resist superior enemy forces in a future war.

      their Volga and Ural is the UN which has always stopped the Arabs.
      1. A. Privalov
        A. Privalov 29 May 2021 20: 55
        +5
        Quote: Usher
        their Volga and Ural is the UN which has always stopped the Arabs.

        In fact, everything happened exactly the opposite, but if you are confident in your words, then do not refuse the courtesy, please give examples of these "always". Otherwise, your statement is nothing more than idle chatter. hi
        1. Usher
          Usher 29 May 2021 22: 12
          -2
          Quote: A. Privalov
          Quote: Usher
          their Volga and Ural is the UN which has always stopped the Arabs.

          In fact, everything happened exactly the opposite, but if you are confident in your words, then do not refuse the courtesy, please give examples of these "always". Otherwise, your statement is nothing more than idle chatter. hi

          Apparently I didn’t put it that way, as you put it with sarcasm about the Volga and the Urals, and I said that for them the Ural is the UN. Which, if something happens, will stop the Arabs. And what went wrong does not negate this.
      2. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 30 May 2021 01: 00
        +3
        Quote: Usher
        it is the UN that has always stopped the Arabs.

        In the suburbs of Cairo and Damascus, the UN stopped the Arabs. Many thanks to the UN for this.
  5. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 29 May 2021 10: 49
    +4
    I read that the T7 with a 62mm smoothbore gun had more or less superiority over them (taking into account the L115). And the angles of the vertical guns of the Centurion were larger. What the tankers used
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 30 May 2021 23: 35
      +3
      OBPS T-62 penetrated the armor of the Centurion from 1 km - classic
      "Arab" distance from which they were taught to shoot by instructors.
      The Israelis usually fired from 2-3 km. And knocked out the T-62 from several
      hits.
      That is, in close combat, the T-62 and the Centurion were on an equal footing.
      On large and medium-sized - Centurion has an advantage with mark skills
      long-range shooting, for which Israeli tankers are trained (still).
  6. Undecim
    Undecim 29 May 2021 14: 33
    +9
    Moreover, the car had as many as 13 versions, sometimes very seriously different from each other.

    The car had, to be precise, twenty-five versions only in Britain.
  7. Mother Theresa
    Mother Theresa 29 May 2021 18: 29
    +7
    Quote: A. Privalov
    And the most important secret of the success of these tanks was that Israel does not have the Volga to which it could retreat, there is no Urals for which it would be possible to evacuate a part of the population and industry, and then, having gathered forces, go over to the counteroffensive. The country 400x120 (at its widest point) has no alternatives.
    I do not want to beg for the heroism of the Israel Defense Forces and the Jewish people. But it is necessary to add the soldiers of Egypt and Syria did not receive a school education at the level of Germany and were not able to manage complex equipment, the officer corps of Egypt and Syria did not have the experience of the first world and successful company in Europe and were appointed to positions not based on knowledge and experience, but by birthright. And this is not the whole list of the shortcomings of your opponents.
    1. Revolver
      Revolver 29 May 2021 19: 15
      +2
      In general, Arabs, they are such Arabs ... There were, are, and will be.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. A. Privalov
      A. Privalov 29 May 2021 19: 25
      0
      Quote: Mother Teresa
      I do not want to beg for the heroism of the Israel Defense Forces and the Jewish people. But it is necessary to add the soldiers of Egypt and Syria did not receive a school education at the level of Germany and were not able to manage complex equipment, the officer corps of Egypt and Syria did not have the experience of the first world and successful company in Europe and were appointed to positions not based on knowledge and experience, but by birthright. And this is not the whole list of the shortcomings of your opponents.

      Well, of course!
      It is well known that Israel won wars not at all because its soldiers fought well, but solely because its Arab opponents fought badly.
      1. Mother Theresa
        Mother Theresa 29 May 2021 21: 42
        +3
        Quote: A. Privalov
        that his Arab opponents fought badly.
        These are your words, I didn’t say that.
    4. Maki Avellevich
      Maki Avellevich 29 May 2021 20: 46
      -2
      Quote: Mother Teresa
      the officer corps of Egypt and Syria did not have the experience of the first world and successful company in Europe

      somehow it was forgotten that the IDF was crushing someone and gaining experience in the First World War ...
      1. nemez
        nemez 30 May 2021 07: 19
        +2
        Are drugs allowed in Israel?
        1. Maki Avellevich
          Maki Avellevich 30 May 2021 08: 24
          +2
          Quote: nemez
          Are drugs allowed in Israel?

          were not prohibited.
          you can not read two comments and understand who wrote what and to whom?
          try again.
      2. Mother Theresa
        Mother Theresa 30 May 2021 14: 37
        +2
        Memory is such a thing, it can fail.

        1. Mother Theresa
          Mother Theresa 30 May 2021 14: 43
          +2
          Sergeants of the 38th Royal Fusiliers Battalion.
          On November 2, 1917, an official letter was sent to Sir Lionel de Rothschild for the transfer of the Zionist Federation of Great Britain from the Foreign Secretary Lord Balfour on the establishment of a national Jewish home in Palestine. This was the Balfour Declaration, the most important document in the history of the State of Israel. Its creation was prompted by the possibility of using a huge reserve of Jewish military personnel in the army. The 38th Battalion, jokingly called the "East End Tailors", immediately grew to 800 men.
          1. Maki Avellevich
            Maki Avellevich 30 May 2021 15: 08
            0
            Quote: Mother Teresa
            The 38th Battalion, jokingly called the "East End Tailors", immediately grew to 800 men.

            as many as 800 people? yes it's just some kind of armada.
            then it is clear why the Jews beat the Arabs. No joke, 800 people served with the British.
            imagine if there were 1000 of them? they would have enslaved the whole world with their military clique.
            and now a little more serious.
            the Arabs were gaining experience elsewhere (Nazi Wehrmacht) and in other quantities. (20000 soldiers)

            Initially, it bore the name "845th German-Arab Battalion" (German: Deutsche-Arabische Bataillon Nr 845). All volunteers were trained in the Dollersheim camp - a city located near the Austrian Linz. The battalion included all those who could not take part in the North African campaign of the Wehrmacht. With the help of Amin al-Husseini, 20 thousand people of Arab nationality were recruited, which formed the new division. By order of the Wehrmacht, the battalion became the Free Arabia legion.



            photos of Ub Ludkov in Nazi uniform. undergo an internship under the supervision of a superior race.



            and here is the defender of faith and freedom, Hitler's friend at the parade - amin al-husseini
            1. Mother Theresa
              Mother Theresa 30 May 2021 16: 08
              +3
              So we will write it down in the protocol. Opoen cannot argue about the First World War. Demonstrates wit. Does not mention that the ki of "Free Arabia" were destroyed by Soviet troops in the Caucasus, and the remnants were finished off in Yugoslavia.
              1. Maki Avellevich
                Maki Avellevich 30 May 2021 16: 28
                -3
                Quote: Mother Teresa
                We will write it down in the protocol. Opoen cannot argue about the First World War. Demonstrates wit. Does not mention that the ki of "Free Arabia" were destroyed by Soviet troops in the Caucasus, and the remnants were finished off in Yugoslavia.

                I repent. sinful.

                also forgot to tell about the Jewish soldiers who have gained a lot of experience in mule management. you already know how they used this experience.

                In December 1914, Zeev Jabotinsky and Joseph Trumpeldor put forward the idea of ​​forming a "Jewish Legion", which will participate in the British military operations to occupy Palestine, then belonging to the Ottoman Empire. Instead, at the suggestion of Great Britain, “Zion Corps of Drivers"(" Zion Mule Corps ", also known as"Mule Drivers Squad”), And in March 1915, 650 Jewish volunteers began training as part of it. At the end of April, the detachment already participated in an operation on the Gallipoli Peninsula.


                here they are, the battle mules are the terror of the Arabs.


                By the way, the photo that was presented as Jewish "fusiliers" are all the same representatives of the Zion corps of mule drivers.


                You are very flattering to the Jews, but really, a couple of hundred mule epaulettes do not make the difference at the front.

                Lastly, the Jews of Israel really wanted to serve in the British Army during WWI, precisely for combat experience. and the discerning British did not want to provide them with it. therefore, they were offered the job of drovers and not combat soldiers.

                you are trying to conduct a historical debate with scraps of data from Google in hand.
                take my word for it, the history of your country is closer to the person living in it.
                it would be a little funny if I, for example, debated with you on the Crimean War (1853, of course) without having the slightest idea about it.
                1. Mother Theresa
                  Mother Theresa 30 May 2021 20: 51
                  +3
                  Let's continue. You are lying to put it mildly.

                  Sergeants of the 38th Royal Fusiliers Battalion. I wrote this.
                  Just like having more information, forget.
                  38th battalion.
                  39th battalion.
                  40th battalion.


                  Zhabotinsky "The Word about the Shelf"
                  “And five hundred 'drovers' and five thousand 'royal riflemen' - the Jewish people have the right to be proud of them all, everyone: from Whitechapel, Tel Aviv, New York, Montreal, Buenos Aires, Alexandria. They came from four countries of the world, and one - Margolin - from the fifth; and they have served their service honestly and firmly in the Jewish cause.
                  The IDF did not appear in 1948, but in 1914.
                  Also, you forgot to add that 100 Jews fought in the armies of the Central Powers.
    5. Usher
      Usher 29 May 2021 22: 14
      -2
      Quote: Mother Teresa
      Quote: A. Privalov
      And the most important secret of the success of these tanks was that Israel does not have the Volga to which it could retreat, there is no Urals for which it would be possible to evacuate a part of the population and industry, and then, having gathered forces, go over to the counteroffensive. The country 400x120 (at its widest point) has no alternatives.
      I do not want to beg for the heroism of the Israel Defense Forces and the Jewish people. But it is necessary to add the soldiers of Egypt and Syria did not receive a school education at the level of Germany and were not able to manage complex equipment, the officer corps of Egypt and Syria did not have the experience of the first world and successful company in Europe and were appointed to positions not based on knowledge and experience, but by birthright. And this is not the whole list of the shortcomings of your opponents.

      Of course, to fight against the strongest army in the world and against opponents who are not very strong in all respects. Well, for some people, just to pour slop, of course, the Germans lost because of the Urals and the Volga. They apparently rested on the Volga, they could not swim. And the fact that Beria was a far-sighted person is somehow forgotten. What if we run away to the Urals.
  8. zyablik.olga
    zyablik.olga 30 May 2021 01: 05
    +5
    This is exactly the case when comments are more interesting than the article itself.
    1. John22
      John22 30 May 2021 21: 09
      +1
      I totally agree.
  9. Igor Smirnov
    Igor Smirnov 30 May 2021 01: 51
    +5
    All this is amusing and fun, only in Israel there was a long story about a big luck to serve on Centurions precisely because they had an order of magnitude less losses among l / s than on other machines. have proven themselves remarkably.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 2 June 2021 00: 43
      +2
      Here is a photo of the Centurion-monument on the way to Eilat.

      Low crew losses - due to the rational stowage of ammunition at the bottom of the hull, the crew did not sit crowded, it was quick and easy to get out of the tank.
      The accurate cannon made it possible to hit T-54/55/62 tanks from long distances of 2-3 km outside the limits of their fire.
  10. Kunich80
    Kunich80 31 May 2021 21: 01
    0
    What nonsense urapatriots. One of the best post-war tanks judging by the DB experience. Our vaunted IS-3, along with the Pattons, snatched from him in full. And even a non-runner in Korea showed himself from the best side in terms of his ability to maintain control over the heights. All the arguments - if only the freaks behind the levers of the other side do not count. And I understand that tanks should not fight tanks, this is usually a command error. An attempt to scuttle the tank, unfortunately, we did not manage to create an equal to which in terms of efficiency in the post-war period. Cent really appreciating the outcome of wars / conflicts is a good tank. Ours, unfortunately, the Americans and even more so the French did not create anything like this before the 80s. And the Germans after WW2 still have (so that they completely minus me)
  11. Pushkowed
    Pushkowed 1 June 2021 09: 51
    0
    The result of detonating the "Centurion" on a 7,2-kg charge:
  12. The comment was deleted.
  13. Sergey Ryumin
    Sergey Ryumin 9 June 2021 11: 40
    0
    More about them, from the collection in Kubinka. Photo of 1988.

  14. Sergey Ryumin
    Sergey Ryumin 9 June 2021 11: 50
    0
    From the series, my photos that were not stolen by andrei-bt.



    1. Real Vugluskr
      Real Vugluskr 11 June 2021 21: 43
      0
      The bottom photo is especially good. I don’t remember this "small" thing in the exposition. Scorpio chtol?
  15. Sergey Ryumin
    Sergey Ryumin 9 June 2021 11: 53
    0
    Well, damn it again my photo without my permission! I would certainly allow, but it would be necessary to mention the author. https://vk.com/photo4756810_370054969
  16. Real Vugluskr
    Real Vugluskr 11 June 2021 21: 41
    0
    The author, you have a confusion in your article. Correct.

    On display in Kubinka, there is ONE Israeli tank MAGAH-5 (and not an old one, but sent by Israel to replace it with ZKBn numbers). The previous one was captured at Sultan Yakub at 82m intact. The big CT when exchanging asked to return the fotik. :) M-60A1 is there with the Iranian-Iraqi one. The one that was passed off as the one who came with the remains of Israeli tankers.

    Of course, the Syrians could not transfer any trophies in 71st. In 73, they also hardly stole anything, because On October 6-7.10.73, 8, they had no time for trophies, but on the 3th the reserve brigades approached and it was even less time for trophies. The Burnt Centurion is most likely old and was dragged away from the Purple Line, and not at all "recaptured from the militants." Now, if only some Panzer that was lying around the Syrians would have been dragged (it seems like they even flickered somewhere at the beginning of the war). On account of what was exhibited in Kubinka, perhaps one Centurion was with the "tzaddiks" on the armor, I don’t remember, but the rest, including the one shot and sawn at the test site, is definitely not from there. M-XNUMX (a.k.a. Zakhlad) was there with the "tzaddiks".