Military Review

About the Ministry of Defense's money properly buried in the ground

68

In principle, we have become accustomed to the fact that we spend money on defense in a peculiar way. You don't have to go far to find evidence; Russian Defense Minister Shoigu himself voiced very interesting things at the New Knowledge marathon.


“What did Syria give us? I'll tell you straight that we encountered a very large number of unpleasant surprises there. I may call them softly. Then weapon, which was put into service, passed state tests, is not such in essence. We have simply removed from service almost a dozen and a half and stopped producing. "

That's how interesting it turns out. Experienced, tested, and in the end - zilch. It is clear that Shoigu did not specify on the list that it was useless there, he only noted that "this applies to communication systems, and electronic warfare, and reconnaissance, and strike complexes."

Indeed, "it never happened, and now again" (V.S. Chernomyrdin)

But now we will talk about something else. TASS reported that our Ministry of Defense signed an agreement "with one of the USC enterprises" for "repair and modernization" of the ground test training complex (aviation), which is NITKA at the Novofedorovka airfield near the city of Saki, in the Crimea.

The total cost of the work to be done is half a billion rubles.

The beginning of this stories - December 2020, at a meeting with the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy, Admiral Evmenov. In fact, the discussion at the meeting was about what needs to be done to quickly put the Admiral Kuznetsov into operation.

And now, within the framework of the discussions, a more than unexpected proposal was born: by 2022, in the interests of the 100 and 279 fighter aviation regiments of the naval aviation ensure the use of the outdated NITKA complex in Saki. And for this to carry out repair and modernization work.

And this is where the questions begin. What for?

Yes, it would seem that THREAD will be overhauled, there is nothing wrong. Let the crews of the regiments, which are waiting for the completion of the repair of the Kuznetsov, work at least from a substitute deck on the ground. Quite a logical way out.

However, not everything is as simple as we would like. If anyone has forgotten, by the will of political intrigue, near the city of Yeisk (yes, where the 100th Aviation Regiment is based), there is already an exact copy of the simulator in Saki. And not just a copy, but a new simulator built from scratch in 2013, with two runways of 2,5 km each, with barracks, hostels, classrooms and other infrastructure.


And this complex is designed for exactly the same thing as the old complex in Saki. For the training of carrier-based aviation pilots.

It would seem that repair and modernization, albeit quite expensive, - what's wrong with that? But the thing is that we have quite a few years not far from the city of Saki, in the Azov Eisk, the NITKA complex, which is much more modern than in the Crimea, seems to have been operating for several years. The first flights from it were made back in 2013. For the construction of the complex, two runways 2,5 kilometers long each, classrooms, barracks and hostels, according to some sources, about 25 billion rubles were spent. And the Yeisk simulator is designed for exactly the same thing as the Saki simulator - for training deck pilots in the interests of "Admiral Kuznetsov".

Overall, the situation is just brilliant! There is not a single full-fledged aircraft carrier in the country, and so far it is not expected, pilots capable of taking off from the deck of an aircraft carrier and (most importantly) landing without gurgling the plane into the water - a couple of dozen at best, but the training centers for these pilots are TWO!

No offense: the US Navy operates 11 aircraft carriers, each carrying 80 to 100 aircraft. This is more than a thousand pilots. And the American fleet also TWO pilot training centers. Chase Field and Kingsville, check.

Interesting alignment, right? Two centers for a thousand pilots and two for twenty.

And this despite the fact that the aircraft carrier is not and will not be. All these puffs of cheeks and important reasoning about what we will build by 2040, "Manatee", "Storm", "Varan" is not that from the evil one. On the contrary.

It is worth listening to a member of the Collegium of the Military-Industrial Commission, as well as a member of the Naval Collegium under the Government of Russia, Vladimir Pospelov. He knows a lot about the construction of ships, and therefore repeatedly voiced the need for the Russian Navy to build THREE nuclear aircraft carriers with a displacement of 70-80 tons. And the price. 000 billion rubles apiece.

Moreover, it does not matter who it will be. "Manatee" or "Varane" or some other project. Half a trillion - period. Well, the terms of production of the first ship in the region of 2040 or a little earlier.

It is clear that one and a half trillion rubles for three hypothetical ships is such a tidbit that shipbuilders are unlikely to be able to just refuse.

But all this will be, at best, very strong later. That is, in 20 or even 30 years. And today the Ministry of Defense continues to quietly throw out huge sums of money, it is not entirely clear for what purposes. And, obviously, he is not going to stop along the way.

The famous speech of Chubais at the New Year's corporate party comes to mind: "We have a lot of money, guys!"

In general, of course, this is not just stupidity. This is some kind of utter nonsense. Why in a country where there are no aircraft carriers or really carrier-based aircraft, two ground complexes?

Moreover, when one of them requires just gigantic investments.

If you look at history, the whole history of the NITKA complex in Saki is a history of political fanaticism.

The first THREAD was finished building in 1982. Simultaneously with the mortgage in Nikolaev, the first aircraft-carrying cruisers for aircraft with conventional takeoff and landing. A ground-based steam catapult was also built in Novofedorovka for training pilots of the Su-33 wing of the first aircraft carrier "Ulyanovsk". But with "Ulyanovsk" the case drowned, the catapult was not completed.

But from 1984 to 1991, pilots continued to be trained in Saki. And in 1991 Timur Apakidze and Andrey Yakovlev first boarded the deck of the TAVKR "Tbilisi". And a new era in history began.
But in 1992, the 1063rd Center for Combat Use of Naval Aviation, headed by Aviation Colonel Viktor Beznogikh, swore allegiance to Ukraine and a completely different life began.

Considering that Ukraine was not going to have its own aircraft carrier, it needed NITKA solely as a tool for making money. Payments from Russia for the use of the simulator reached 700 thousand dollars a year.

And then it all ended altogether. Moreover, before it flared up in Ukraine in terms of civil war. In August 2008, when the unbelted Georgia got the horns, Kiev stood on the same platform with “brotherly” Tbilisi and banned Russian pilots from training in Crimea.

In 2009, the use of THREAD also did not take place, and a reasonable decision was made to build its own simulator for naval aviation. In Yeisk. On the basis of the disbanded Yeisk Military Aviation Institute (former VVAUL) them. V. Komarov, the Naval Aviation Pilot Training Center was created.

The complex turned out better than the Crimean one simply because the equipment did not stand still. The Azov NITKA came out on a larger scale than the Crimean one, it was supposed to train not only fighter pilots, but also the crews of carrier-based helicopters. Simulators for training crews to operate in especially difficult conditions: failures of engines, avionics, and other systems of the vehicle were created at the Dinamika CSTU near Moscow.

Moreover, back in 2016, it was planned to install a floating platform that simulates a strong roll for practicing helicopter landing. But apparently, something did not grow together, because nothing has been heard about the platform so far.

In general, 25 billion rubles were seemingly spent in vain. But then there was a return of the Crimea, and with it the simulator in Saki.

It immediately became clear that two training centers were too much. Yes, nobody wanted to destroy one of the centers, so a very strange decision was made: to continue training pilots in the Crimea, and to start testing "new technology" in Yeisk.

In general, pilots from the "Admiral Kuznetsov" continued to fly to Crimea, and the Yeisk simulator continued to be unclaimed. Simply because no new technology that should have been tested on THREAD has appeared over the past few years.

And the complex in Saki is empty for 10 months a year.

And both empty complexes continued to consume maintenance funds. And now money was needed to modernize the complex in Crimea.

It is interesting, but you cannot just somehow combine the training of pilots who arrive in Crimea for a month or a month and a half a year and testing the very "new technology" that does not exist? Or move all this to Yeisk, where is a newer simulator with more modern equipment?

And most importantly: where to get new equipment, waiting for which 25 billion rubles spent on the complex in Yeisk are idle?

What will it be? The deck version of the MiG-35, which our repeatedly quoted Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Borisov promised back in 2018? A shipborne version of the Su-57, the Sukhoi Design Bureau has just begun to think about the possibility of its creation? Attack and reconnaissance drones of the future?

Here it is obvious that our Ministry of Defense just needs to decide what they want after all. For only when everything is defined, clear and understandable, the money invested in projects will at least pay off, and in the long term even make a profit.

And then you will not have to remove from service and stop producing weapons systems that are not needed. Or to invest huge sums in the construction and maintenance of again unnecessary objects.

Is 40 days a year worth 30 million rubles to work on the NITKA simulator in Crimea for 500 pilots? Or maybe it is worth using the new complex in Yeisk for this?

This is a very difficult question, to which the Ministry of Defense clearly does not have an answer.
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  1. marchcat
    marchcat 26 May 2021 10: 13
    +7
    A huge amount of money does not add intelligence and judgment.
    1. prior
      prior 26 May 2021 10: 29
      +17
      Yeah. This is not for your children to collect a string through television for an operation.
      It looks like the concept of "conscience" disappeared along with the USSR .....
      1. bandabas
        bandabas 26 May 2021 14: 17
        +1
        Yeah. 150 million for one vaccination ... The question is different. This money can save hundreds of other children. It's not a pity, but I'd rather help myself without any TV channels. instead of the "ruble" state.
      2. Jacket in stock
        Jacket in stock 27 May 2021 03: 27
        0
        Quote: prior
        It looks like the concept of "conscience" disappeared along with the USSR ....

        It is like a bum, and under the USSR, there was a lot of things that were not very ...
        And in 1991, the majority voted for the slogan "enrich yourself!" ...

        Not everyone has succeeded in becoming rich yet, but some are trying very hard.
    2. bandabas
      bandabas 26 May 2021 14: 09
      +3
      You're right. "Talking birds" with us and do not count. And, all "take care" for "Fatherland" ("Motherland-Mother") from their ruble dachas. angry
    3. Anachoret
      Anachoret 26 May 2021 15: 58
      0
      “What did Syria give us? I'll tell you straight that we encountered a very large number of unpleasant surprises there. I may call them softly. The weapons that have been put into service have passed state tests, they are essentially not such. We have simply removed from service nearly a dozen and a half and stopped producing. "

      Thank God, until there is a real combat situation for checking the available fleet, this is where the write-off will roam. And not even writing off, but lifting from the bottom of the sea, if something happened. This is sad and should be resolved now, rather than sawing with a shot "maybe it will blow." The main thing is to master the money.
    4. yehat2
      yehat2 28 May 2021 08: 12
      +1
      And in my opinion the Ministry of Defense did the right thing.
      Firstly, these airfields can be used not only for training carrier-based aircraft pilots, the same helicopter pilots, for example, would also not mind.
      Secondly, deck drones are being actively developed now, and given this, 2 strings is normal.
      Only one thing is abnormal - there is not a single aircraft carrier.
      Therefore, I would prefer that, instead of repairs, they first activate the completion of an aircraft-carrying cruiser or strike cruiser, or work on boat and amphibious delivery vehicles with UDC, and only then - repairs in Saki.
  2. vic02
    vic02 26 May 2021 10: 16
    +1
    There would be to listen to the witnesses. Either the new complex was built as a cosmodrome in Vostochny, that it is necessary to rebuild and continue to launch from Kazakhstan, or Crimea for itself. I begged for funds for another construction site.
    1. lucul
      lucul 26 May 2021 10: 35
      +4
      There would be to listen to the witnesses.

      What is there to listen to? At first, Roman ran into the Moscow Region, saying that they say we need 2 training complexes, and then he himself explained below that the second complex appeared after the annexation of Crimea.
      And then Zorya -Mashproekt will fall into our hands - they will also say, why do we need Kolomna engines? )))
      1. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 26 May 2021 12: 36
        +10
        Quote: lucul
        At first, Roman ran into the Moscow Region, saying that they say we need 2 training complexes, and then he himself explained below that the second complex appeared after the annexation of Crimea.

        The meaning of the article: "Why do we need a professional technical school in Saratov, if there is one in Moscow with the same profile?"
      2. Per se.
        Per se. 26 May 2021 13: 25
        +5
        Quote: lucul
        why do we need Kolomna engines?
        Rather, why do we need "Zorya" - "Mashproekt" in Nikolaev, by analogy with the Crimean "Thread".
        An interesting topic, with our optimization from effective managers, Roman turned the question into an interesting provocation.
        When we actively "cooperated" with the Americans, in particular with "Pratt & Whitney", they directly stated that they, as competitors in the sky, did not need us, and for Russia and one plant for aircraft engines is enough, and even then, as turbines for pumping natural gas. Probably, for Russia, "one kidney" is enough for everything, the rest is an unforgivable luxury ... Therefore, Sharikov ("Heart of a Dog") sang in the theme here.
        I will gouge out an eye - the other will remain, So that you know, shit ... but to whom to bow!

        Why it is impossible to re-profile, mothball, or use the complex as a regular land airfield, with the possibility of a shortened launch from a springboard and for land fighters, is a question.
        1. IL-18
          IL-18 27 May 2021 23: 16
          +2
          Quote: Per se.
          or use the complex as a standard land airfield, with the possibility of a shortened launch from a springboard and for land fighters, the question is.

          I wonder how realizable is the possibility of a mobile airfield with a springboard and a finisher? With our vastness, this can be useful ... if effective managers don't get involved in the implementation.
          1. Per se.
            Per se. 28 May 2021 06: 38
            +2
            Quote: IL-18
            I wonder how realizable is the possibility of a mobile airfield with a springboard and a finisher?
            Andrey, I myself have thought about this more than once, and not only me, the topic is not new. Here, for example, again a drawing.

            It is clear that now the planes are already different, nevertheless, something similar is used for drones.
            It hardly makes sense to make an analogue of a ship's catapult on the ground, but easily erected springboards are quite.

            For the first aircraft carriers, sandbags tied in pairs by ropes were used as aerofinishers, to which the landing hook clung. The bags dragged behind the plane, dampening the speed. This hardly applies to modern aviation. We have pontoon complexes for rapidly erecting crossings, if you think about it, you can use this principle to make mobile landing strips with built-in cable finishers.

            Better yet, seriously return to the abandoned topic of VTOL aircraft and tiltrotors.

            1. yehat2
              yehat2 28 May 2021 08: 15
              +1
              Quote: Per se.
              and tiltrotors.

              I think it's worth at least making your own analogue of the American v-22
              they have already more or less debugged the technology, we can only copy it.
              The vehicle is extremely useful for highly mobile infantry.
              1. Per se.
                Per se. 28 May 2021 08: 46
                -1
                We carried out work in the USSR, the creation of the Mi-30 was included in the state armament program for 1986-1995. Alas, the bourgeois and the bad guys won, the Soviet Union fell, the work was curtailed.

                I hope all is not lost.
                1. yehat2
                  yehat2 28 May 2021 08: 47
                  +1
                  I meant a new design where the engines do not turn
                  I think that with Kamov's experience with complex screw drives, this can be done.
                  1. Per se.
                    Per se. 28 May 2021 08: 50
                    0
                    Well, here then something like that.
                    - Pooh, what do you want to spread - honey or condensed milk?
                    - Do you want honey or both? Both! And you can do without bread.
              2. IL-18
                IL-18 29 May 2021 00: 36
                0
                Better yet, seriously return to the abandoned topic of VTOL aircraft and tiltrotors.

                Thanks for the succinct but detailed answer.
                As for VTOL aircraft and tiltrotors, for areas close to the state border or, God forbid, theater of operations, there is an excellent opportunity to create an aviation grouping in the shortest possible time in the right place. And the limited radius of action will be just compensated by the possibility of being as close to the zone of interest as possible in cooperation with the air defense of nearby troops.
                And the saddest thing is that the experience of using it from land airfields was in Afghanistan. Let the Yak-38 not show itself there as something outstanding, but those who sent it there were also not limited people, and clearly had a goal not only to drive spooks.
  3. The comment was deleted.
    1. 2 Level Advisor
      2 Level Advisor 26 May 2021 10: 26
      +6
      and why then a springboard in Yeisk? and why is it impossible to cook deck ships there too? anyway, it's much cheaper than a separate complex, even if you add a couple of classes and simulators ..
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 26 May 2021 10: 38
        +27
        Quote: Level 2 Advisor
        and why then a springboard in Yeisk? and why is it impossible to cook deck ships there too?

        Here is how it was. THREAD remained in Ukraine, and they fought from us at exorbitant prices for using it. Therefore, it was decided to build "THREAD at minimum wages" in Yeisk in order to reduce the amount of education in Ukraine, ideally to refuse altogether. But here the quality of training would suffer (THREAD simulates the pitching of an aircraft carrier, in Yeisk it is not).
        And suddenly - the Ukrainian coup, and our Crimea. The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation unexpectedly receives 2 complexes in its hands, one of which (Yeisk) is unfinished and less functional, and the second (THREAD) is MUCH better, but requires serious repair. What to do?
        Came out as I described above. From Yeisk they made a training center for naval aviation pilots, and in NITKA, judging by the scanty infusions (what is half a billion rubles today?), They will simply repair its famous "floating springboard"
        1. 2 Level Advisor
          2 Level Advisor 26 May 2021 11: 29
          -3
          1. What to do? Well, if about my opinion, then, for good reason, based on logic, close one of them, if Yeisk is worse, then Yeisk and transport it to the Crimea, where, as I understand it, the main equipment is transportable (classes, simulators), and Yeisk military aviation can be based on an airfield or VVUZ to revive, or both, so it's not very good with young pilots ..

          2. At the same time about Yeisk


          "If it was absolutely necessary to choose between the two complexes, then it would be logical to make a choice in favor of NITKA in Yeisk, which, although unfinished, was equipped with more modern equipment and is part of the Naval Aviation Pilot Training Center (TsPLMA)," noted military expert Dmitry Boltenkov. As a result, the military leadership decided to leave both facilities, but to diversify their functionality, so that each has its own purpose. "

          That is, they are identical for this infe, nevertheless, there is a pitching in Yeisk too ..
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 26 May 2021 11: 43
            +13
            Quote: Level 2 Advisor
            That is, they are identical for this infe, nevertheless, there is a pitching in Yeisk too ..

            No :))) As there is no steam catapult, by the way. All of this was planned to be built at some point, but nothing more.
            Quote: Level 2 Advisor
            As a result, the military leadership decided to leave both objects, but to diversify their functionality, so that each has its own purpose.
            1. 2 Level Advisor
              2 Level Advisor 26 May 2021 13: 55
              -1
              I do not pretend to be true - I was not there, but the picture from Izvestia seems to be a more or less serious publication .. hi Where did you get the information?
              1. akarfoxhound
                akarfoxhound 26 May 2021 22: 14
                +1
                You know, of course, Izvestia is a more or less serious publication, but for some reason on the same VO there are quite a large number of commentators who consider the opinion that they do not have "well-known" correspondents for the army to be more weighty and serious than people directly exploiting the discussed military equipment.
                1. 2 Level Advisor
                  2 Level Advisor 27 May 2021 06: 41
                  +2
                  You are right, I am in my subject, too, clearly more "news" rummage. But I just indicated my source of information and referred to it. asking: where did Andrey get the information .. is it abnormal? I’m just looking for the truth .. I didn’t say that I served on Nitka .. And I was also ignored and minus .. apparently for referring to the news instead of just believing the words without references to at least something - but why should you? wherein. I certainly respect Andrey and support his opinion on many issues, but as far as I am aware, he also did not serve on Thread like me ...
                  1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 27 May 2021 12: 38
                    +2
                    Nikolay, I didn't minus you :)))
                    There is a problem. I tracked the state of Yeisk several years ago, on some specialized forums, and now it's hard to figure out which ones :)))) So I had to run and look, although I did not find everything. I'll give you a link to one of them in a personal message.
                    So the essence is this. Initially there, it seems, really aimed at repeating the THREAD. But by 2014, there was still no horse lying around. There was nothing there even in 2016. There was an article "Aircraft carrier aground" in the military-industrial courier (I will also drop the link).
                    Dots above the i in a conversation with the "Military-Industrial Courier" were put by the representative of the veteran organization of the Saki garrison Alexander Sannikov
                    “The complex in Yeisk was planned to be commissioned back in 2012. Now this event has been postponed to the end of 2016. Therefore, in 2014 and 2015, the "palubniks" used the complex in Saki for training. True, they solved a simplified task - flights with a touch of the deck and passes without a hook on the aerofinisher cable, which did not allow the skills to be restored in full. It is not necessary to train in Crimea for this. It was possible to fly at any airfield, even in the Arctic. Paint stripes on the concrete, put on the ship's optical landing system - and go. And it would be much cheaper than sending dozens of people with planes on business trips across the country. I had to finish my studies on the ship, and this pleasure is not cheap and even unsafe "

                    That is, even for such evolutions Yeisk was not ready. Not ready now. On May 4, TASS in the article "Source: the new NITKA complex in Yeisk may start functioning in 2023", citing an unnamed source reported
                    The deadlines for the delivery of the new ground-based test training complex (aviation) NITKA in Yeisk - the second Russian ground-based analogue of the aircraft carrier - have been postponed to at least 2022 with the start of operation in 2023.

                    That is, the training center is functioning, but the complex itself is not.
                    Further. On the one hand, the data of the news that you provide. On the other hand, the same TASS writes
                    In 2014, together with Crimea, the NITKA complex in Saki returned to Russia. It was once built in "iron" with the prospect of repeated modernization in the future, and, according to experts, this is its main advantage and difference from the NITKA complex in Yeisk, which is made of concrete. Now THREAD in Saki is awaiting repair and modernization. It is assumed that combat pilots of carrier-based aircraft will be trained at this complex for flights from an aircraft carrier.

                    Do you understand? That is, the first reports were such that Yeisk would become a copy of Sak, only more modern. Then we started talking about a concrete runway, and the same Sannikov says
                    “The complex in Yeisk is made almost entirely of concrete, there is no reliable method for calculating such structures for strength, especially for dynamic loads. And THREAD in the Crimea was designed by the PKB "Nevskoe", which created all the aircraft carriers of the USSR, and was built by the Nikolaev ChSZ, again knowing how to do it.

                    the portal News of the military-industrial complex wrote even more interesting in 2018, the article "The Yeisk complex NITKA will acquire a new strip":
                    In Yeisk, Krasnodar Territory, by the end of the year, a new runway will be built and put into operation, designed for training carrier-based aircraft, according to the Department of Information and Mass Communications of the RF Ministry of Defense.
                    According to the report, a new runway equipped with aerofinishers is being built on the territory of the airfield, which is a reinforced concrete structure with a metal coating. At the moment the concrete base of the strip has already been laid.

                    Agree, this somehow does not at all resemble the description of a structure capable of imitating pitching? And why build it at all, if there is already a structure that is capable of imitating this pitching? And why, if there is a "swinging deck" in Yeisk, build a separate helipad on the water? Sdelanounas writes
                    According to the commander-in-chief of the Russian Navy, Admiral Viktor Chirkov, the helicopter unit will begin work in 2016. It will be a platform anchored in the coastal waters, on which helicopters will take off and land on the deck of aircraft carriers.

                    And even the news you quoted write:
                    However, with the return of Crimea, the Saki simulator returned to Russia, so the question was already - how expedient it is to maintain two similar objects. As a result, it was decided to develop both complexes, but to assign them different tasks.

                    It is possible that the story turned out like this - initially it was planned to do better in Yeisk than in Saki, then either the plans were revised, or they simply did not cope with the construction, or they even mastered money in Yeisk on the quiet, because, according to Sannikov
                    There are at least three versions of why the NITKA complex turned out to be in the stepchildren of the Ministry of Defense, the expert ironically says: “Among the supporters of the first version are those who do not believe in the final return of the Crimea to Russia. According to their logic, why invest in this case? Yes, and under the sanctions you can get. The latter say that everything was done on purpose, so that the complex was first stolen, and then it was impossible to say that its restoration would be possible, and to put the territory (500 meters from the coastline) under the sale. The third version is simple in its simplicity: in Yeisk huge funds are being spent - billions. And in Saki need minimal funding. This is not interesting to anyone.

                    Such an option is also possible - initially they planned to do the best, did not complete it on time, by 2014 nothing really worked, received the thread back in Crimea, and began to finish building Yeisk in a simplified version.
                    Something like this, roughly :)))))
            2. Intruder
              Intruder 28 May 2021 08: 18
              -2
              As there is no steam catapult, by the way.
              Excuse me, but in Russia, there is an aircraft carrier with a steam engine !? Right here and now, or in plans ...?
        2. Pilat2009
          Pilat2009 26 May 2021 19: 57
          -3
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          and the second (THREAD) is MUCH better, but requires serious repair

          Why is the 82-year-old simulator better? Only by pitching? Well, build a rocking chair in Yeisk. Not for half a billion
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 27 May 2021 12: 49
            0
            Quote: Pilat2009
            Well, build a rocking chair in Yeisk. Not for half a billion

            Right. There, half a trillion will be needed :))))) This is a complex structure where it is necessary to pump thousands of tons of runways longitudinally and transversely (EMNIP in Saki - 12 thousand tons) and they have no right to bend ...
            1. yehat2
              yehat2 28 May 2021 08: 22
              0
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              This is the most complex structure

              built on almost every battleship
              don't exaggerate the problem. This is a standard task for shipbuilders, nothing complicated.
              The only problem is the size of the structure is 290 meters.
              Oh yes, I forgot. If they do it like a star, maybe a trillion will not be enough.
              Effective ... managers are also a problem.
              1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                Andrei from Chelyabinsk 28 May 2021 09: 57
                -1
                Quote: yehat2
                built on almost every battleship

                This was not built on any ship. What are you talking about now, excuse me?
                1. yehat2
                  yehat2 28 May 2021 10: 22
                  0
                  about flooding system and ballast overflow system to rotate the hull
                  1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 31 May 2021 10: 40
                    0
                    Quote: yehat2
                    about flooding system and ballast overflow system to rotate the hull

                    So this is completely different. Here - just pour water into one or another compartment of the ship, or pump it from one to another. Moreover, such a system does not imitate anything, but simply changes the location of the cargo (and their mass) on the ship. And on THREAD there are no compartments, but there is a life-size TAVKR deck, which should move in accordance with how the ship does in waves
                    1. yehat2
                      yehat2 31 May 2021 11: 41
                      0
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      how does a ship do it in excitement

                      for this it would be enough to give an order to the road builders
                      they will arrange such excitement for you on the deck that 10 points will seem like seeds.
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          1. Artyom Karagodin
            Artyom Karagodin 26 May 2021 11: 47
            +6
            You are not alone. Roman's style is very recognizable))).

            But let me disagree with you. Roman should say "thank you" at least for the fact that if it weren't for his publications, there would be no competent comments under them)))). For example, I did not know about the difference between these complexes. Now I know, thanks to Roman as well. His merits are indirect, but undoubted))).
        2. Gardamir
          Gardamir 26 May 2021 11: 13
          -4
          Well, not everyone knows this :)
          And you are probably the best critic of the site. But so they answered why the goat has a button accordion. More precisely, if there are no aircraft carriers in the country and no aircraft carriers are foreseen, why spend money on jumps?
          1. Daniil Konovalenko
            Daniil Konovalenko 26 May 2021 11: 32
            +2
            And the content? And the staff? Jobs, roughly speaking. Do you want another round of unemployment? smile
            1. Gardamir
              Gardamir 26 May 2021 12: 19
              0
              About jobs as humor will roll. When the shopping center where my wife and I rented a place two years ago was demolished, no one was interested in where people would go.
              And you know how hard it is to start anew when under 60. And then a pandemic was announced. I noted all these cases with a heart attack.
              No, I'm not complaining. I am proud of the many billionaires that have become richer during the pandemic. You see, all these trampolines will help a few more officials.
              1. Intruder
                Intruder 28 May 2021 08: 39
                -1
                And you know how hard it is to start anew when under 60. And then a pandemic was announced. I noted all these cases with a heart attack.
                Eh, I understand you, colleague, my family business did not suffer too badly last year, we survived almost at the limit, barely stayed afloat with my wife .., but I’ve earned my blood pressure ... now I live on pills crying
          2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 26 May 2021 11: 41
            +10
            Quote: Gardamir
            But so they answered why the goat has a button accordion. More precisely, if there are no aircraft carriers in the country and is not expected

            The aircraft carriers are (Kuznetsov) and are foreseen, at least the country's leadership wants to have them. In the Decree of the President of the Russian Federation of July 20, 2017 No. 327 "On approval of the Fundamentals of State Policy of the Russian Federation in the field of naval activities for the period up to 2030", one of the priorities for the construction of the Navy is indicated (paragraph 45)
            creation of a naval aircraft carrier complex
            1. EvilLion
              EvilLion 27 May 2021 08: 53
              0
              Don't pass off your fantasies as MO desires.
              1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                Andrei from Chelyabinsk 27 May 2021 15: 56
                +2
                You flatter me, believing that Putin is signing documents in which my fantasies are spelled out
            2. Intruder
              Intruder 28 May 2021 08: 36
              -2
              creation of a naval aircraft carrier complex
              Quite a vague concept, but what and how much, and with what characteristics, this very complex until 2030, is it not early to write a fairy tale ???
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        1. carstorm 11
          carstorm 11 26 May 2021 10: 50
          -1
          They just have their own website. With photos and other things. https://859cbp.mil.ru/Obrazovanie
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  4. Pavel57
    Pavel57 26 May 2021 10: 43
    +3
    Joke. But not funny.
  5. Solbon munkuev
    Solbon munkuev 26 May 2021 10: 44
    -1
    They are not fools in the Ministry of Defense, if an object is being built / modernized, then there is a justification
    1. The comment was deleted.
  6. magdama
    magdama 26 May 2021 10: 53
    0
    I wonder who is guilty of squandering budget money, whose oversight or crime? Or stupidity? Or banal theft?
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. mikh-korsakov
      mikh-korsakov 26 May 2021 11: 24
      +9
      I read Skomorokhov's article. At the same time I read a logical and convincing commentary by Andrey from Chelyabinsk. I am far from being a judge in a dispute - not an expert. But what can be seen, as they say, with the naked eye. The purpose of Skomorokhov's article is to generate comments like magdama, which breaks records with an abundance of question marks, but from the question marks "you can't sew a fur coat", as well as a meaningful comment. The question arises whether Skomorokhov should have worn out the keyboard and wasted computer resources on stimulating comments like magdama. From a cannon to sparrows, despite the fact that the barrel of the cannon looks crooked. I read from Skomorokhov about Crimea - I console myself with the thought that we have freedom of the press. therefore, you are allowed to publish anything. so let them.
      1. magdama
        magdama 29 May 2021 11: 13
        0
        I take it you are one of those question marks about? Maybe write something on the merits of the question, without unnecessary mentions of magdama? Oh, two interrogative again ...
        1. mikh-korsakov
          mikh-korsakov 31 May 2021 14: 03
          0
          magdama! The key phrase in your comment is "oversight or crime". It smells very much of 1937, excuse me, but I heard and read from those who passed away and now that then there was also an abundance of accusatory denunciations due to envy of an apartment or official position, and question marks were also written in the denunciations. Do you want to sit up with the chief of the head office? It follows from your comment that there are either fools or pests in the MO, but you yourself have not yet decided which ones. Don't you feel the analogy? And you are familiar with such things as state secrets or at least particle board. Therefore, to talk about things without having them full of information is ...
  7. Alien From
    Alien From 26 May 2021 10: 55
    -4
    Here I completely agree with the author!
  8. Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 26 May 2021 11: 01
    0
    Do not hide your money in banks and corners,
    Carry your money - otherwise it will be trouble.
    And at midnight your money is buried in the ground there,
    And at midnight, bury your money in the ground, where?
    Dig into the ground where ...

    Water well, we advise you,
    And branchy trees will grow in the dark
    But instead of leaves, the money goes silver there
    But instead of leaves, where are the money going for gold? ..
    Where are they gilded?
  9. Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 26 May 2021 11: 20
    -7
    an aircraft carrier is not needed, which means that training centers are not needed, in any case, two are definitely not needed
    1. mikh-korsakov
      mikh-korsakov 26 May 2021 11: 34
      +2
      The Yeisk center is designed to train pilots of naval aviation, not deck pilots. This is the point.
      1. Pilat2009
        Pilat2009 26 May 2021 20: 15
        +1
        Quote: mikh-korsakov
        to train pilots of naval aviation, not deck pilots

        Why was the deck erected there then?
        1. Intruder
          Intruder 28 May 2021 08: 34
          -1
          Why was the deck erected there then?
          So that it was, otherwise they will whisper in the Kremlin corridors ... they couldn't and it's time to change ..., plus you can go there for MA day, go there and get business travel!
  10. MegaWattExpert
    MegaWattExpert 26 May 2021 12: 58
    -3
    The cost of building a complex in Yeisk is about 4 billion rubles, of which about 1,5 billion was stolen.
    The money was stolen through the Prompostavka firm and the former head of the Compass ICB. These comrades are already in prison.
    The complex in Yeisk has never worked and does not work until now, because not fully powered. From this complex, only test flights were carried out in test mode.
    This situation has arisen due to the fact that in the Krasnodar Territory, in general, there are very big problems with electric grids, to which it is impossible to connect normally, and due to the fact that there was not enough money to complete the construction.
    This information is from open sources, of course.
    1. carstorm 11
      carstorm 11 26 May 2021 13: 43
      -1
      Oh how?) That is, takeoffs from it, for example, in 19 142, in my opinion, at the flight competitions, is it also in test mode?))) Everything is also in open sources, if anything) the sea ace 2019 is it probably cartoons?




      They all sit there without light
      1. MegaWattExpert
        MegaWattExpert 26 May 2021 14: 45
        -3
        This is the wrong photo from the airfield.
        Not that there is no electricity, I didn't write that. There are a little
        1. carstorm 11
          carstorm 11 26 May 2021 14: 57
          -1
          Seriously?))) Well, apparently everyone is lying) except you, of course
    2. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 26 May 2021 20: 16
      -1
      Quote: MegaWattExpert
      in the Krasnodar Territory, in general, there are very big problems with electric grids, to which it is impossible to connect normally, and due to the fact that there was not enough money for the completion.

      Are you laughing chtoli? Is it a problem for MO to connect to networks?
    3. Intruder
      Intruder 28 May 2021 08: 32
      -2
      to which it is impossible to connect normally
      in the sense of a regional substation, they can no longer deploy / build, or just stretch a cable line ... horror how people live with this:
      that in the Krasnodar Territory, in general, there are very big problems with electric grids
  11. Bez 310
    Bez 310 26 May 2021 14: 59
    0
    In Saki, the Black Sea, and in Yeisk, the Azov Sea.
    The Black Sea is better, so we will restore the complex in Saki, well, by chance, by chance, we will add a recreation center, for the command staff of the MA, the chiefs must officially rest somewhere, supervising the training of imaginary "deck" pilots.
    This is how I see it all ...
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 26 May 2021 22: 55
      +1
      I also immediately thought about it.
      Serving in the Crimea is the most important thing for any military man. Service at the resort.
      Many military institutions and headquarters will move there.
  12. zloybond
    zloybond 26 May 2021 21: 43
    0
    why is preparation needed? Why would you even know that? Are you a general staff officer? Here such people do not argue out loud. And unnecessary curiosity is useless. And it’s time to close any access to military contracts outsiders.
    1. Intruder
      Intruder 28 May 2021 08: 29
      -2
      And unnecessary curiosity is useless. And it’s time to close any access to military contracts outsiders.
      And yak, democratic braces ??? laughing And then the adversaries, they will think about preparing for the third ... and then different, again all sorts of them - overseas analysts, will find violations in international treaties and hello, a new wave of sanctions?
  13. EvilLion
    EvilLion 27 May 2021 08: 52
    0
    Experienced, tested, and in the end - zilch.


    Duc is a typical situation when the hardware does not justify itself. The main thing is that it was revealed without a big war.

    And the plane-dwellers to the bottom.
  14. Eug
    Eug 27 May 2021 13: 09
    0
    Hmm ... the godfather was resting in Saki in 2012 and said that the Sukhie prevented him from sleeping .. conducted explanatory work with him on musicology ...
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