In Germany, presented a new version of the armored personnel carrier GTK Boxer 8x8

The German consortium ARTEC has presented a new version of the GTK Boxer 8x8 armored personnel carrier. According to the bmpd blog, in this version, the armored personnel carrier received the Protector RT60 combat module of the Norwegian group Kongsberg.

The armored personnel carrier was developed in the interests of the "Middle Eastern" customer, which is not reported, but according to the blog, it may be Qatar, which fell through the deal to acquire French-made VBCI-2 armored personnel carriers.

This version of the Boxer armored personnel carrier is equipped with a Protector RT60 remote-controlled combat module with a 813 mm Northrop Grumman XM30 automatic cannon, a 7,62 mm coaxial machine gun, and an ATGM launcher for two missiles. In addition, another remote-controlled machine gun, already a large-caliber 12,7 mm, is installed on the roof of the module.

The Protector RT60 module of the Norwegian company is also installed on the American M1296 Stryker ICV Dragoon (ICVD) armored personnel carriers and the advanced wheeled armored personnel carriers of the US Marine Corps ACV-30.

The crew of the Boxer armored personnel carrier is 3 people + 8 people.

The Boxer is a multi-purpose armored personnel carrier with a modular design that allows it to carry various weapons, with the 8 × 8 wheel formula. Mobile command posts, armored medical vehicles, etc. are produced at its base.

Comments

[Thrifty]

Is it so tall that an Arab, together with his beloved camel, could fit inside it? The trend is such a global one, to make the armored personnel carrier high so that the crew stands there at full height. ...

[Thrifty]

"Guerrillas," ayu -explain your disadvantages, otherwise I see an alternative view here, unacceptable? ??

[poquello]

Quote: Thrifty

Guerrillas, "ayy

that's why they are partisans, maybe like a boomerang is also not short, or maybe it's like a boxer - as possible)))))))))))))))))))))))))

[lucul]

"Guerrillas," ayu -explain your disadvantages, otherwise I see an alternative view here, unacceptable? ??

You see, the townsfolk have been hammered into their heads that the armored personnel carrier should only ride on mines, which will be poked right everywhere, in case of war, they will not leave a piece of free land.

[Murmur 55]

Thrifty support you and that is why, of course, safety and comfort are important, no one argues, BUT it is easier to notice and, accordingly, to direct an ATGM to such a BARN is easier than to a small car + ATGMs are also developing tirelessly and their price is much lower than that of modern armor, how such an overall technique will be to operate within the city limits, and almost all major modern conflicts are fought for cities, I understand that the life of a soldier is important, but what are the advantages of such machines ??? I think that they will soon come up with mines that will be able to take such armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles and that then only comfort will remain? Excuse me, I'm not very good at expressing a thought, well, something like that

[alexmach]

Do you think the height of the car will greatly affect its visibility from approximately this angle?

[Murmur 55]

and if from the ground? From a hillock from 5 km? We must look for a middle ground, but for now they are in favor of increasing the size of the rejection of buoyancy.

[Murmur 55]

And if a rocket arrives from above, will this Boxer, Bradley, Boomerang survive ????

[Xenofont]

If there is even a truncated Afghanite, as it was supposed, it will quite survive.

[poquello]

Quote: alexmach

Do you think the height of the car will greatly affect its visibility from approximately this angle?

but take it to the side, but on hilly terrain, but with good air defense

[ROSS_51]

Quote: Thrifty

"Guerrillas," ayu -explain your disadvantages, otherwise I see an alternative view here, unacceptable? ??

So you do not have an alternative view ..)) Just in the trend of the local urapatriotic generals .. You got a bit of a blast before the colonel-general ..)) Why were you so upset because of the minuses - the working scheme did not work or the marshal wanted so much?)) Funny value system, eibo ..))
Already all the developers of armored vehicles in the world (including ours) realized that with modern means of detection and guidance, a low silhouette is an anachronism, in which there are more minuses than pluses.

[poquello]

Quote: ROSS_51

Already all the developers of armored vehicles in the world (including ours) realized that with modern means of detection and guidance, a low silhouette is an anachronism, in which there are more minuses than pluses.

and this is an argument like "with modern detection means", has the visual been canceled already ?, the heat already penetrates through the hill ?, and .. smoke the height of the radar antennas.

Quote: ROSS_51

Funny value system, neibo ..))

quiet, nasty line of behavior eibo, minuses talk about disagreement but do not say why

[ROSS_51]

Quote: poquello

quiet, nasty line of behavior eibo, minuses talk about disagreement but do not say why

So the pluses don't tell you why, but you don't call them quiet and nasty?

[poquello]

Quote: ROSS_51

Quote: poquello

quiet, nasty line of behavior eibo, minuses talk about disagreement but do not say why

So the pluses don't tell you why, but you don't call them quiet and nasty?

pluses are consensus, those are no objections

[Cat Alexandrovich]

Then, for Ukraine, a higher option is needed, so that you can jump in it!

[alexey2073]

The trend is such a global one, to make the armored personnel carrier high so that the crew stands there at full height. ...

this is due to the need for reasonable placement of soldiers in the BM, in full equipment. And providing the necessary degree of protection against VU and small-caliber systems (up to 35 mm). It is inconvenient to climb out of a modern BTR-80 (-80A, 82,82A, etc.) in modern equipment, which does not have an analogue in the world. We climbed for 7 years, we know)))

[Thrifty]

Alexey I then served in the USSR, I remember well those armored personnel carriers and bempeshki. I don’t remember the protection on the BTR 70, but the BMP 1 was saved only by speed!

[lucul]

this is due to the need for reasonable placement of soldiers in the BM, in full equipment. And providing the necessary degree of protection against VU and small-caliber systems (up to 35 mm). It is inconvenient to climb out of a modern BTR-80 (-80A, 82,82A, etc.) in modern equipment, not having an analogue in the world, Absolutely. The tightness, and the protection is poor. Hi We climbed for 7 years, we know)))

Clearly, the soldier smoothly flows from a soldier to a mercenary, in fact, the mentality is changing - he is no longer going to war, but to work.

[Sahalinets]

Well, once the designers of our armored vehicles proceeded from the average height of a soldier of 167 cm. But where can we find such people now? Putin and the one taller ...

[ROSS_51]

Quote: Sahalinets

Well, once the designers of our armored vehicles proceeded from the average height of a soldier of 167 cm. But where can we find such people now? Putin and the one taller ...

Once we had the USSR and all the main tankers were Uzbeks and Tajiks .. And they are still 167 cm.

[poquello]

Quote: ROSS_51

Once we had the USSR and all the main tankers were Uzbeks and Tajiks.

"a contract on military service may be concluded by foreign citizens legally present in the territory of the Russian Federation."

[ROSS_51]

Quote: poquello

"a contract on military service may be concluded by foreign citizens legally present in the territory of the Russian Federation."

Can you imagine a tank on Russian territory fully equipped with a BC with an Uzbek crew?

[Murmur 55]

Alexey, I agree about the 80-ku and the BMP family, but ATGMs are cheaper and they can do more, so you can simply not get to the front line. Here it seems to me it is necessary to catch the golden mean, but so far it does not work.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: alexey2073

This is due to the need for reasonable placement of soldiers in the BM, in full equipment.

[poquello]

Quote: alexey2073

Climbing out of a modern BTR-80 (-80A, 82,82A, etc.) in modern equipment is inconvenient,

so for centurions, in general, something like a buggy is needed with modular seats, maybe also with an anti-mine and camouflage system

[Babermetis]

Quote: Thrifty

Is it so tall that an Arab, together with his beloved camel, could fit inside it? The trend is such a global one, to make the armored personnel carrier high so that the crew stands there at full height. ...

I think that the placement of a stretcher with the wounded is envisaged. Those who had experience in evacuating the wounded on rapes will fully appreciate the height of the armored personnel carrier.

[lucul]

I think that the placement of a stretcher with the wounded is envisaged. Those who had experience in evacuating the wounded on rapes will fully appreciate the height of the armored personnel carrier.

You know what the matter is - the height also implies a high center of gravity, and this is a guaranteed rollover on slopes.
That is, such an armored personnel carrier will perfectly ride on the roads, but on rough terrain, it will overturn a number of times (lateral overturning). Remember how our Pantsir overturned on a Kamaz chassis on a flat road. Now look at our hilly fields. If such an armored personnel carrier travels on a slope, and hostilities provide for this, then the chance of overturning is very high.

[Murmur 55]

I don't think that such a technique is routinely thought of for transporting the wounded, I saw the interior from the inside (via the Internet), so there the chairs seem to be not at all provided for fasteners wore, maybe they changed it.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Babermetis

I think that the placement of a stretcher with the wounded is envisaged.

There is a sanitary module for the wounded:

[isv000]

It would be nice to hunt on this ...

[ROSS_51]

Quote: isv000

It would be nice to hunt on this ...

Hunting GAZ-66 with a canopy and no more. Why do you need an APC with AZ on a hunt? Are you afraid to meet a bear with an ATGM?

[isv000]

Yes, anyway, our kung is better, and the cross-country ability of the shishiga is steeper, and this - a beautiful picture creaked, pulled comfortably, the realization that this is all bullshit comes later ...

[Babermetis]

Quote: Bad_gr

Quote: Babermetis

I think that the placement of a stretcher with the wounded is envisaged.

There is a sanitary module for the wounded:

Looks awesome!

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

So high that it was comfortable for the crew and the landing party inside. In addition, the large space inside increases the chances of survival.

And yes, this is world practice, there is no point in making equipment low in the conditions of mass proliferation of high-precision weapons.

[Murmur 55]

Is there a large one ??? Now everyone around is trying to make the technique little noticeable, stealth yeah, but this does not apply to armor? If a large armored personnel carrier or infantry fighting vehicle is noticed from afar, then the chances of reaching the landing zone will be less, and the penetration and defeat of modern anti-tank systems is such that when it hits, everything is the same, that in Boxer, in Bradley, in Boomerang, the squad is no longer fighters.

[Usher]

Quote: Murmur 55

Is there a large one ??? Now everyone around is trying to make the technique little noticeable, stealth yeah, but this does not apply to armor? If a large armored personnel carrier or infantry fighting vehicle is noticed from afar, then the chances of reaching the landing zone will be less, and the penetration and defeat of modern anti-tank systems is such that when it hits, everything is the same, that in Boxer, in Bradley, in Boomerang, the squad is no longer fighters.

You see the pluses and minuses, this is a modern pro-Western audience, which falls for the shed and oh god, the "lives" of the soldiers are cherished)))

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

You see the pluses and minuses, this is a modern pro-Western audience, which falls for the shed and oh god, the "lives" of the soldiers are cherished)))

And what does the pro-Westernness have to do with it?

Just look at how the Soviet infantry fighting vehicles were used - the landing on the armor has no protection against detonation.

BMP - have long been deciphered as a mass grave of the infantry.

Don't you think it's worth revising the old BMP concept?

There the troopers will not turn around, especially in winter, they will not drag anything with them.

Sprats in a bank - that's what a Soviet BMP is.

And the space inside the BMP or armored personnel carrier really gives additional chances to survive. And there are plenty of such cases. The same T-62 in Chechnya, due to the fact that it does not have a loading mechanism and the crew is not so constrained, receiving several hits from RPGs and ATGMs, often remained in the ranks and continued to fight. Not every hit from an RPG or ATGM is fatal to a tank or armored personnel carrier / infantry fighting vehicle.

And yes, the lives of soldiers must be protected, wars are fleeting, you will not have time to dress up, train new soldiers by the end of the war.

[Usher]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

You see the pluses and minuses, this is a modern pro-Western audience, which falls for the shed and oh god, the "lives" of the soldiers are cherished)))

And what does the pro-Westernness have to do with it?

Just look at how the Soviet infantry fighting vehicles were used - the landing on the armor has no protection against detonation.

BMP - have long been deciphered as a mass grave of the infantry.

Don't you think it's worth revising the old BMP concept?

There the troopers will not turn around, especially in winter, they will not drag anything with them.

Sprats in a bank - that's what a Soviet BMP is.

And the space inside the BMP or armored personnel carrier really gives additional chances to survive. And there are plenty of such cases. The same T-62 in Chechnya, due to the fact that it does not have a loading mechanism and the crew is not so constrained, receiving several hits from RPGs and ATGMs, often remained in the ranks and continued to fight. Not every hit from an RPG or ATGM is fatal to a tank or armored personnel carrier / infantry fighting vehicle.

And yes, the lives of soldiers must be protected, wars are fleeting, you will not have time to dress up, train new soldiers by the end of the war.

How much is the United States in Afghanistan and Iraq? Very fleeting yeah. Where did you serve, dear, tell tales about the T-62? It is a myth. Leo2A4 and M60 Turkish famously showed how "shed" saves. The BMP should not fight the landing party inside. If you are not in the know. And it is not the design that saves from ambushes, but the organization.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIzQd9YRXgA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZtBxbLHbRw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=er_jXeaD30E и https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_eGo5QoBoM отлично горят и взрываются. Нет никакой корреляции с размерами и живучестью экипажа.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

The United States destroyed the Iraqi army (4th largest in the world) in a couple of weeks, and in Afghanistan they went to their home in general.

I served in Chechnya, in the 42nd Mechanized Infantry Division, where these tanks were in service.

Calculate the losses of our infantry fighting vehicles and tanks in Chechnya and Afghanistan for a start, and then compare this with the losses of the United States.

You will not be saved from everything, but the chances of surviving in such a German infantry fighting vehicle or the like are much greater than in those that were built in the USSR and now in Russia.

[ROSS_51]

Quote: Murmur 55

Is there a large one ??? Now everyone around is trying to make the technique little noticeable, stealth yeah, but this does not apply to armor? If a large armored personnel carrier or infantry fighting vehicle is noticed from afar, then the chances of reaching the landing zone will be less, and the penetration and defeat of modern anti-tank systems is such that when it hits, everything is the same, that in Boxer, in Bradley, in Boomerang, the squad is no longer fighters.

What century do you live in? What disguise? Modern thermal imagers see a palm print on a stone .. In Iraq, Iraqi tankers in cold tanks sat in ambush at night, so they were calculated when they climbed out of the hatches for a smoke ..

[Usher]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

So high that it was comfortable for the crew and the landing party inside. In addition, the large space inside increases the chances of survival.

And yes, this is world practice, there is no point in making equipment low in the conditions of mass proliferation of high-precision weapons.

naive.

[poquello]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

And yes, this is world practice, there is no point in making equipment low in the conditions of mass proliferation of high-precision weapons.

woo, as required)

Quote: poquello

this is a boxer - how can you))))))

[rocket757]

Boxer - modular multipurpose armored personnel carrier

... All the same, the modularity of the design is interesting and promising.

[Pandiurin]

Quote: rocket757

Boxer - modular multipurpose armored personnel carrier

... All the same, the modularity of the design is interesting and promising.

Perhaps this modularity is a feature for organizing production with the participation of several EU countries. Those. each of the participating countries wants to be able to put their own module for themselves or some special one for sale.
Nobody would give the final assembly to any one country. Then all changes, such as the installation of some kind of weapons, would have to be coordinated with the assembly production.
If the main manufacturer is one country, then modularity does not have many advantages.
One country will have a smaller zoo, several options are being developed to cover different types of equipment.

With modularity, of course, you can change the purpose of the car, but you need to have a second, third module in the garage for such delights.
Theoretically, repairs can be carried out by rearranging the module from a faulty car to a serviceable chassis.
But how much will it pay off?
A faulty chassis needs to be repaired with grass. You need to have a stock of undercarriage parts for replacement.
Isn't it easier to just have a stock of serviceable machines?

The use of the module is extra metal, extra weight, an increase in dimensions or a reduction in the internal volume, extra connectors, a possible shift of the center of gravity upwards, a general rise in price.

For the EU, with their desire to have each country "their own" boxer, there is a sense.

[rocket757]

The same basic pepelats is the dream of the mechanics and supply chain.
The assortment greatly complicates everything ...
On the other hand, universal, it is, as always, not up to something. Not for all occasions, however.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: rocket757

The same basic pepelats,

[poquello]

Quote: Bad_gr

Quote: rocket757

The same basic pepelats,

[rocket757]

Shishiga is a thing in itself!
However, much is forgiven for her cross-country ability.

[poquello]

Quote: rocket757

Shishiga is a thing in itself!

ett Kozhugedovich today is Shishishiga, long glorious years to him! And then he does not know (

[Usher]

Quote: rocket757

Boxer - modular multipurpose armored personnel carrier

... All the same, the modularity of the design is interesting and promising.

Well I do not know. The efficiency of this design is lower.

[rocket757]

That's right, you have to pay for the versatility by reducing many other parameters.
Either that, or something different, specialized.

[Rusnemez]

The protection seems to be quite normal for itself, the question is he Swimming or is it too heavy?
Further, the module is not habitable, so the height is a plus for the review, and if he says hello, then the operator is intact.

For the rest, do not forget that all this was not designed from the bulldozer, but specifically according to the Terms of Reference, for customers who see this product specifically in the structure of troops for specific tasks ...

This means that the APC is a delivery vehicle and a little support and not "for all occasions."
There is equipment for reconnaissance, there is for attack aircraft, and this is for delivery to where the reconnaissance has visited and waiting for the initial infantry.

[Murmur 55]

And how he with such dimensions will approach the "front end" ??? Blockages, craters, and other delights of bombing and art strikes? Does the enemy have an ATGM and the ability of these complexes to hit from 3 or more km, a large target is easier to spot, or should the infantry be brought no closer?

[Graz]

such an armored personnel carrier is not cheaper than a tank. if they use it at the front edge, then they will put Kaz on it in any way, if in the basic configuration it holds in the forehead not to lie 14.5 mm our kpvt, then already with additional armor modules, the forehead holds 30mm, as I understand it (BR 6), and in a circle it holds kpw

[Murmur 55]

Graz and ATGM it with additional modules will withstand? And the arrival from above from the percussion drone?

[Murmur 55]

KAZ implies the absence of nearby infantry, how will he interact with her (infantry)? These are not sarcas, just questions.

[voyaka uh]

The infantry will be told: do not snuggle up to the armored personnel carrier, keep a distance
30 m.
The British, for example, have the infantry in front. Behind her 50 m behind,
support tanks and infantry fighting vehicles.

[Usher]

Of course not, the permeability is generally at zero.

[Babermetis]

Quote: Rusnemez

The protection seems to be quite normal for itself, the question is he Swimming or is it too heavy?
Further, the module is not habitable, so the height is a plus for the review, and if he says hello, then the operator is intact.

For the rest, do not forget that all this was not designed from the bulldozer, but specifically according to the Terms of Reference, for customers who see this product specifically in the structure of troops for specific tasks ...

This means that the APC is a delivery vehicle and a little support and not "for all occasions."
There is equipment for reconnaissance, there is for attack aircraft, and this is for delivery to where the reconnaissance has visited and waiting for the initial infantry.

I agree with you. The infantry must be delivered to carry out combat missions. The infantry must be taken to the base. The infantry, while alive, is at war, in contrast to the destroyed equipment.
The equipment serving the infantry must be sharpened for its "client" - an infantryman with equipment and ammunition + the ability to pick up an infantryman, even if in a lying and motionless position.

[isv000]

"... it may turn out to be Qatar, whose deal for the purchase of French-made VBCI-2 armored personnel carriers fell through ..."

[Usher]

Machine gun still with MBT-70?

[Rusnemez]

Quote: Murmur 55

And how he with such dimensions will approach the "front end" ??? Blockages, craters, and other delights of bombing and art strikes? Does the enemy have an ATGM and the ability of these complexes to hit from 3 or more km, a large target is easier to spot, or should the infantry be brought no closer?

And there is nothing to approach the "front end" so that the enemy could see you and hit you with direct fire.
If there is such a danger, then the infantry has nothing to do there for the time being, because the points must be extinguished with art on the reconnaissance survey. It is clear that often everything is not so, but then the tasks are solved according to the situation.

Note that much depends on the tasks, to fight in the combined arms or against the aborigines, fronts with a clear "Own-Aliens" or Banistan with "sadyki".

This machine, it seems to me, was designed for the needs of NATO, taking into account the infrastructure and reliefs in the flesh to the most common bushes.
An example is Germany, where prickly blackberries and rose hips grow almost everywhere, both in cities and in the countryside.
The average height of this blackberry is 2-2,5 meters, it is a solid bush that is not climbing. Just a tower without a tower in a "camouflage" will shine and distribute.