The Conquest of Siberia: Questions for Official Historiography

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The number of publications on the network is growing, which in one way or another dispute the official history countries. In the arsenal of individual disputants there are certain documents, the arsenal of others is most often their own guesses, conjectures and assumptions, which in the end are passed off as the ultimate truth. In any case, there are more and more works of various kinds that fit into the provision of "alternative history".

One of the favorite areas of activity of those people who do not trust generally accepted historical "dogmas" is the topic of criticism of Karamzin's "History of the Russian State". In the story on the SNT Chairman channel, which examines the history of the “conquest” of Siberia, Karamzin is presented mainly as a writer, and his work on Russian history as, first of all, a literary work.



The author points to Karamzin's rather free approach to the description of both the Cossack campaigns in Siberia and the personality of Ermak. In particular, Karamzin's use of data from different chronicles is given, as well as additions "from himself", which are more reminiscent of a kind of lyrical digressions that are not related to specific data of historiography. One such example is how Yermak "shed tears" when he received an offer to "serve the White Tsar" and "defend Great Perm as the eastern stronghold of Christianity."

An example is also given of the strange portrait of Ermak, which resembles in its attire the Spanish conquistador.
The author of the video is somewhat ironic about the official historiography:

Wasn't Yermak cold in such attire during the conquest of Siberia?

Another video on the above-mentioned channel, where the author, to put it mildly, does not agree with the generally accepted historiographic concept of Siberia's annexation to Russia and asks a lot of questions:

  • Stanislav Romanovich Rostvorovsky - http://www.emii.ru/kollekcii/russkoe-iskusstvo-xviii--nachala-xx-veka/posly-ermaka-u-krasnogo-krylca-pered-ivanom-groznym-exhibit-33.html , Public domain, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=19133524
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29 comments
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  1. 0
    20 May 2021
    It is a pity that we will not wait for specific answers from historians to specific questions from the video.
    1. +3
      20 May 2021
      we will probably never wait for answers to many questions about history)
      and the free clerk Karamzin, rather otkatyvali Catherine in his writings and everything that came before her described as a dense and semi-wild reign of tyrants)
      Karamzin is the same historian as the papal legate Posevino))
      1. +16
        20 May 2021
        It's all lyrics. Fact - Siberia is ours.
        1. +2
          20 May 2021
          If you watched the video, then you would have questions. And so yes. Siberia is ours.
    2. +8
      20 May 2021
      In the modern world, where his garbage dump - the Internet - reigns, homegrown historians, economists, politicians, experts of all stripes are like uncut dogs! I'll do my bit - Ermak was Ukrainian! laughing
      1. +7
        20 May 2021
        Yermak the yarmulke, so more true than Herman. So he is a Jew, apparently a cross.
  2. +1
    20 May 2021
    Anecdote: "Karamzin is a historian". recourse Distorted and disfigured the history of the country to please the Vatican, the LC and the king. He pleased everyone and bent over, could not decide how to write about the Romanovs (see the speed of writing history by volume)
  3. +6
    20 May 2021
    Another video on the said channel, where the author, to put it mildly, does not agree with the generally accepted historiographic concept of the annexation of Siberia to Russia and asks a lot of questions

    Since 1817, everyone recognized what was written by Nikolai Mikhailovich Karamzin, and suddenly some "author" was found who had many questions. "Who are you author ???"
    1. 0
      21 May 2021
      laughing who are these "all"? - Court licking of the Romanovs? Even then it was clear to clever people that Karamzin's story was complete bullshit. You can the same Pushkin A.S. read! - "Belkin's Tales", History of the village of Goryukhin. - There, Pushkin made good fun of this "court" of the so-called Karamzin. "history" ...
  4. +3
    20 May 2021
    Oh, it's all bullshit.

    And historians refer to Karamzin, and others, not so hot. Perfectly aware of their shortcomings.
    It's just that there is not so much Material, and the horizons of stories are wider.
    But in school textbooks, for most, little will diminish.

    For historians, this is simply a stage in the struggle to conquer. And there were other detachments, and other Cossacks and the rich.
    The strength is there - go kill, rob, seize, pay tribute, get rich. The strong is always right.

    You never know who was conquered at that time ...
    1. +2
      21 May 2021
      Quote: Max1995
      And historians refer to Karamzin, and others, not so hot. Perfectly aware of their shortcomings.

      But even in the time of J.V. Stalin, all historians were silent.
      1. 0
        21 May 2021
        Come on .... Tsarism, Karamzin, but you didn’t scold me?

        I did not follow, but many of the current historians on the description of the development of History, emphasize that they began to criticize Karamzin almost immediately.
        And even something like that was in the textbooks ...
  5. +7
    20 May 2021
    An example is also given of the strange portrait of Ermak, which resembles in its attire the Spanish conquistador.

    The authors are pulling an owl to the globe. It has long been known that Ermak's lifetime portraits do not exist due to the absence of portrait painting in Russia at that time, and all existing portraits are free fantasies with varying degrees of romanticism.
    1. -2
      23 May 2021
      Finally, honestly, the story with Ermak is a fantasy with varying degrees of romanticism. And you know how interesting it is to read disputes on the history of which it might not have been)). Why not take all the chronicles and make a comparative analysis and double-check the Chairman of the SNT in one? Or the chronicles and history of Karamzin, this too, fantasies with anarchism and romanticism?
      1. 0
        24 May 2021
        This is impossible, we do not have authentic chronicles of those times, not only about Ermak, but all others. Oddly enough, they all burned down. There are so-called lists with chronicles, but it is not known whether the truth was written there, added or subtracted. It is better to look at the maps of those times, there are many interesting things to be found, they were not so much combed as the chronicles and there are more discrepancies with the official history.
        1. 0
          24 May 2021
          There is no portrait, no chronicle. So where did Soviet historians get about the conquest of Siberia by Yermak? Could it be OBS? I have no particular complaints about Karamzin, he was a courtier and wrote that he had conquered the city of Siberia. And Undecim has nothing to say, but it knows everything. Even about a portrait in a museum on Red Square. And the Chairman did not invent anything, he presented what is in the archives and read it out. It turns out that in the history textbook, the official imagination (and (or) conjectures (as you like) of Soviet historians. And whoever looked at it, it's a pretty sensible conclusion, the Stroganovs conquered Siberia for the gold in the mounds. Perhaps not so, because everything burned down according to you , maybe there was no such story.
          1. +1
            25 May 2021
            I watch the Chair all the time, I like his presentation of information. He does not distort, and if he says something, he gives information in defense. the story was not the same as the officials write.
            I would be careful not to trust what is in the archives, history in our country has been rewritten too often. We do not know for certain, but the history of the Chairman is closer to me.
  6. +2
    21 May 2021
    I am not a historian, but in the author's reasoning there is also a desire to draw everything to his opinion. It is no secret that industrialists did not hesitate to hire dashing people. "How is it that the Livonian War was going on, and a XNUMX-strong army was walking in the Urals?" At that time, the registration of people was weak. And there were no military registration and enlistment offices. And even when they were, dashing people gathered in gangs. The name itself does not give the author rest. Or maybe he changed the name Armyak for euphony? And the people are still singing a song about the glorious chieftain. And he will sing, in spite of other "songs".
    1. 0
      24 May 2021
      Quote: nikvic46
      At that time, the registration of people was weak, and there were no military registration and enlistment offices.

      You will not believe it, and now, taking into account it is weak ... I have been looking for a person for six months, whether he is alive or dead, everyone does not care ...
  7. 0
    21 May 2021
    The Stroganovs are Germans, half of Ermak's detachment were German mercenaries. It is reasonable to assume that the leader himself (chieftain = hauptman!) Of this detachment was a German! Hermann. And the very "Russian" nickname "Ermak" strongly gives it to the German language ...
    PS: If you look at the history of the further development of Siberia, then the Germans (as well as the British, Scots, ...) are represented there quite densely ... In the 16-18 century, people were "evacuated" from Europe not only to America, but also to Russia / Russia. In Siberia, including ...
    1. +1
      21 May 2021
      Strohanoff, Romanoff, Smirnoff, Putinoff are all Germans. The latter even lived in Germany ... laughing
      1. 0
        24 May 2021
        Nikolaus von Below Hitler's adjutant is a typical German surname and first name. Aryan, probably as they were accepted in the seventh generation. laughing
    2. +4
      22 May 2021
      Description of Ermak:
      "Velmi is courageous and reasonable, and human, and transparent, and is content with all wisdom, flat-faced, black with brad and curly hair, average age [height], and flat, and broad-shouldered"
      ---
      Not very much like a German. Ermak participated in the Livonian War, proved to be good
      commander.
      For this reason, his entire squad was invited by the Stroganovs to protect against raids.
      Khan Kuchum.
      It is quite possible that the Germans also joined his detachment there.
      1. +1
        22 May 2021
        laughing and this "description" is not from the newspaper ... His, like all the other "chronicles" came up with much later than the events described ...
        1. +2
          22 May 2021
          This is a description of the archer who saw Yermak in person. Literacy at the time
          was.
          1. -1
            22 May 2021
            laughing literacy was ... No archer would dream of describing something! And on paper too!
            PS: where are the archers and where is Ermak? - the mismatch in the territory is complete ...
            1. +3
              22 May 2021
              Description of the times of the Livonian War. To Siberia.
              1. -1
                23 May 2021
                and it doesn't change much ...
    3. 0
      22 May 2021
      Quote: nespich
      And the very "Russian" nickname "Ermak" strongly gives it to the German language ...

      The word "Yarmo" is apparently also originally German ... And what about Erivan and Erivan? By the way, in Mongolian "Er" is a man ..

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