Military Review

In search of sunken cities

154
In search of sunken cities
One of the finds of Heraklion - a sunken city near Alexandria


Since ancient times and biblical times, legends about lost civilizations have excited the imagination of many generations of people from different countries and peoples. Especially popular is the myth of Atlantis, which, starting with Plato, has been written not only by historians and geographers, but also by authors of science fiction novels, as well as mystics, who vainly tried to find the last Atlantes in the dungeons of the mysterious Shambhala.


Tom Shropshire. Atlantis at the zenith of glory

But if we go back to the origins, we will have to admit that the myth of Atlantis has come down to our time in one version, and in a rather late one. This legend practically does not touch the rest of the mythological tradition of Greece. All information about Atlantis is presented in two dialogues of Plato: "Timaeus" and "Critias", and the last work remained unfinished. In these dialogues, on behalf of the famous politician and philosopher Cretius (Plato's uncle), it is told about the information that Solon allegedly received from the Egyptian priests. Namely: about the war of the Athenians with the inhabitants of the huge (larger than Asia and Libya, put together!) Atlantis, which lay behind the Strait of Gibraltar, about the victory of the Athenians and the death of the entire Athenian army on this island as a result of a catastrophe.


N. Roerich. Death of Atlantis

Contemporaries did not believe Plato amicably. Among the skeptics was even his student Aristotle, who, according to Strabo, passed the following verdict:

"The one who invented it (Atlantis), the same made it disappear."

Even more famous is the catch phrase "Plato is my friend, but the truth is dearer", which also belongs to Aristotle and was said all on the same occasion.

Strabo and Pliny the Elder did not believe in the existence of Atlantis either. Since the dialogue "Critias" describes in detail the state structure of ancient Athens and Atlantis, and the moderation of the Athenians is opposed to the luxury of the Atlanteans, many believe that the myth of Atlantis was composed by Plato as a graphic illustration of his theoretical reasoning about the state. But some researchers argue that this myth did not arise from scratch. They believe that its source could be memories of the death of the Cretan (Minoan) civilization as a result of the Santorini earthquake. The most likely date for this disaster is now called 1628 BC (plus or minus 14 years). The reason was the eruption of the Santorini volcano, located on the island of Thira. Seismologists believe that the power of this eruption was approximately equal to the explosion of 200 thousand atomic bombs dropped by the Americans on Hiroshima. The Minoan city of Akrotiri, located on Tire, was then buried under a thick layer of volcanic material (tephra). In 1967, Akrotiri was discovered during excavations carried out by the Greek archaeologist Spyridon Marinatos.


Akrotiri

One of the consequences of this earthquake was the tsunami wave that hit Crete, the height of which, according to various estimates, ranged from 100 to 250 meters, and the speed - 200 kilometers per hour.

Some researchers believe that the eruption of the Santorini volcano was reflected in the biblical story about the "10 executions of the Egyptians" (the book "Exodus" of the Old Testament). This refers to two "executions": "fiery hail" and "Egyptian darkness".


The plague of hail and thunder, artist unknown ("The seventh execution"), 1775


William Turner. "The tenth Egyptian execution", 1802

But back to the island of Crete, the area of ​​which as a result of this catastrophe, according to some estimates, could have decreased three times. But trouble does not come alone, and the Achaeans, previously dependent on them, finished off the Minoans. They invaded Crete, destroying Knossos and other cities. The Great Maritime Power disintegrated, Cretan culture declined, arts and crafts became more primitive. However, such a "minor" and local catastrophe clearly does not suit the modern "fans" of Atlantis, who do not abandon their attempts to find the remains of an ancient civilization at the address left by Plato - in the Atlantic Ocean in the vast territory between Europe and North America. Some studies seem to give some reason for optimism. For example, in 1971, a Soviet scientific expedition aboard the Akademik Kurchatov discovered that the seabed around Iceland was not of marine origin. Scientists have come to the conclusion that the island of Iceland is the highest part of the ancient continent, which previously occupied the northern part of the Atlantic Ocean, which remained above the water.

And between the UK and the continent is Doggerland - a piece of land that previously connected this island with Europe. It went under the water completely in time immemorial - about 8500 years ago.


Doggerland Atlantis

Modern historians and engineers who have studied the technical characteristics and driving characteristics of ancient Greek ships still agree not with Plato, but with Aristotle.

It is curious that behind the search for Atlantis, very interesting finds of archaeologists remain in the shadows, who at the bottom of the seas and oceans in different parts of the world found the ruins of completely real cities.

So, in the area of ​​modern Sukhumi, according to ancient sources, the sunken ancient city of Dioscuria was once located, the remains of which have not yet been found. But in the Sukhum Bay, the ruins of the later city of Sebastopolis were discovered, which, according to the assumption of archaeologists, existed on the site of Dioscuria.

In 1967, an expedition led by N. Flemming at the bottom between the coast of Laconia and a small island discovered the ruins of an ancient Greek city. From this island, the found city got its name - Pavlopetri.


Pavlopetri

It is curious that the Greek geologist and president of the Athenian Academy Fokion Negri spoke about the possibility of such a "find" back in 1904.

In 1968, pilot Robert Bruce noticed the outline of a huge structure in the waters of the Bahamas. French and American archaeologists, led by Valentine, discovered a structure that was overgrown with algae at a depth of just a few meters, which they believed to be like a temple. Aerial photography showed the presence of other megalithic objects at a depth of about 30 meters.

Another expedition three years later at the island of North Bimini discovered the remains of the harbor embankment, which is often called the "Bimini underwater road".


It was found that once the foundation of these ancient structures towered 8-10 meters above the water.


"Bimini Underwater Road"

In 1986, diving instructor Kihachiro Aratake off Yonaguni Island (the westernmost territory of Japan, about 125 km from Taiwan) discovered a strange rock, and a complex of megalithic structures on the seabed. His message then aroused no interest: it was decided that these objects were of natural origin. Only in 1997 was it suggested that these megaliths were artificial. By 2001, a wall of basalt slabs and many objects of regular geometric shape were discovered. And one of the megaliths resembled a human head (7 meters in size).

Megaliths of Yonaguni:



In 2001, the sunken city was discovered near the western coast of Cuba - in the Yucatan Strait at a depth of 650 meters.


An underwater city off Cuba, a computer model based on echolocation data

This discovery confirmed the hypothesis that Cuba was once part of Latin America, connected to the continent in the Yucatan Peninsula.

In January 2002, the remains of a sunken city were also found at a depth of 36 meters in the Bay of Cambay off the western coast of India. Radiocarbon analysis of the objects found showed that the city is 9500 years old.


Acoustic image of the bottom of the Gulf of Cambay


A bead raised from the bottom of the Bay of Cambay

In 2000, in the Gulf of Aboukir, experts from the European Institute of Underwater Archeology under the leadership of F. Goddio found a sunken city, which researchers identify with Heraklion, which served as the "sea gate" of Egypt. It is located 25 km east of Alexandria and 6,5 km from the coastline at a depth of 46 meters. You saw one of the finds of Heraklion in the photo at the beginning of the article.

In the center of this city, the temple of Hercules, described by Herodotus, was found. Scientists believe that the reason for the sinking of this city to the bottom is a series of earthquakes that lasted for 50 years, which led to the death of about 50 city-states of the Bronze Age. It was then that the sea level rose by 7,5 meters, which led to the flooding of the coastal cities of Egypt.

In 2007, during excavations at the bottom of the port of Alexandria (Egypt), another large city was discovered that existed at least 7 centuries before the city was founded by Alexander the Great. Many statues were raised from the bottom.


Statue of a priest at the bottom of the bay of Alexandria

In August 2007, some megaliths were discovered at Cape Tarkhankut in the Crimea. It has not yet been possible to prove their artificial origin, but an underwater "alley of leaders" was created here, the first exhibit of which appeared at the bottom in 1992. The founder of this kind of museum was the instructor of the Donetsk club "Neptune" V. Borusensky. Nowadays you can see sculptures of politicians and writers. There are also sculptural images of a cart, a sailor with a PPSh submachine gun, a Donetsk miner, and copies of antique statues:



In 2007, a circle of stones was discovered at the bottom of Lake Michigan, in the center of which was a large spherical object. On one of the stones there was a drawing of an animal, presumably a mastodon.


Even earlier, strange megalithic structures were discovered at the bottom of the American Rock Lake (Wisconsin). The first "pyramid" was discovered by N. Heyer in 1836. In total, 13 have been found now.


Rock Lake Pyramid

But this pyramid was discovered in 2001 at the bottom of the Chinese lake Fuxian:


Fuxian Lake Pyramid

Its height is 19 meters, width at the base is 90 meters. During further research, 30 more objects of artificial origin were found - presumably houses, columns, road sections. Scuba divers managed to find in this place an earthen jug from the times of the Eastern Han dynasty (25-220). However, experts believe that the underwater structures themselves are of more ancient age.

Relatively recently, a real underwater city has appeared in China. This is the ancient Shichen (founded around 670), which after the construction of a hydroelectric power station in the 1950s. ended up at the bottom of the man-made lake Qiandaohu. Together with him, 30 more small towns and almost 400 villages were at the bottom, the oldest of which was about 1800 years old. Since the beginning of the XNUMXst century, Shichen has gained immense popularity among divers and has become one of the most unusual sights of modern China.



During the construction of hydroelectric power plants, some Russian cities also suffered, although not so large. Berdsk (Novosibirsk region), Kalyazin, Vesyegonsk, Uglich and Myshkin (Tver region) lost part of their territories. But Mologa went under water completely.


The famous bell tower of the Kalyazinsky Nikolsky Cathedral


Mologa, Leushinsky monastery after flooding by the Rybinsk reservoir

When the Sheksna reservoir was filled, the Vologda village of Krokhino was also under water.


Church of the Nativity of Christ, Krokhino

In 1984, the flooded Neolithic village of Atlit Yam was discovered in Israel. Of particular interest is the mysterious circle of stones around a hole.


Atlit yam

Also in Israel in 2003, at the bottom of Lake Kinneret, a cone with a diameter of about 70 meters, made of basalt slabs, was discovered.


Kineret sea structure

Experts do not doubt its artificial origin, but the purpose of this structure remains a mystery.

Sometimes cities sink to the seabed literally before the eyes of astonished contemporaries. So, in June 1692, an event took place on the island of Jamaica, which received the name "Punishment of the Lord": as a result of a powerful earthquake in the Caribbean Sea, a gigantic tsunami wave almost completely destroyed the pirate city of Port Royal, almost 2000 people died, all those who were in the port were destroyed ships. Two thirds of the city sank into the sea. After 10 years, the newly rebuilt city was destroyed by fire, then several hurricanes swept through, and the "city of sin" ceased to exist, covered by a thick layer of silt and sand.


Ruins of Port Royal

But on the territory of South America, scientists have found "Atlantis vice versa": a few kilometers from the alpine Lake Titicaca, located on the border of Peru and Bolivia at an altitude of 3812 meters, there are ancient ruins, which are port structures and bear traces of a long-non-existent sea surf. Locals talk about the city of Wanacu that went under the water, which Jacques Yves Cousteau tried to look for in 1968. These legends were confirmed in 2000, when the ruins of an ancient temple of the pre-Incan civilization, Tianuko, were discovered 250 meters from the coast.


Lake Titicaca is unique in that it is salty and is home to marine animals. Scientists believe that it "ascended" to an altitude of almost 4000 m as a result of the catastrophic movement of the mountain platform. This assumption is confirmed by the legends of the Maya Indians, which tells about the time when there were no mountains in America.

In the next article, we will talk about the abandoned cities found in different parts of the world on land.
Author:
154 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Pessimist22
    Pessimist22 25 May 2021 05: 31
    +6
    Well, perhaps there will still be such cataclysms in which cities will go to the bottom, a meteorite falling the size of a football field, for example.
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 25 May 2021 07: 35
      +4
      Quote: Pessimist22
      Well, perhaps there will still be such cataclysms in which cities will go to the bottom, a meteorite falling the size of a football field, for example.

      With such a cataclysm, entire regions will go to the bottom.
  2. Korsar4
    Korsar4 25 May 2021 05: 46
    +8
    Thank you, Valery. If possible, correct the typo, please, at Cape Tarkhankut.

    The bell tower in Kalyazin makes you think about life. It's another matter when there are no traces left at all. Citizens are running about their business, and are not blowing.
    1. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins 25 May 2021 07: 09
      +9
      Good morning.
      Believe it or not, what the hell pulled me over the weekend to re-watch the old movie (1978) "Leaders of Atlantis"! Nostalgia for childhood played out - then in the cinema with an open mouth they looked at this "masterpiece" of Hollywood.
      And then a couple of days later - and an article!)))
      1. Van 16
        Van 16 25 May 2021 07: 28
        +7
        Oh yes, there was such a film, I remember. Also reconsider something ..
      2. Korsar4
        Korsar4 25 May 2021 07: 31
        +6
        Good morning!
        Thank you, you reminded me of my childhood.
      3. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 25 May 2021 07: 44
        +7
        this "masterpiece" of Hollywood
        The film is actually British.
        My respect, Igor! hi
        1. The leader of the Redskins
          The leader of the Redskins 25 May 2021 07: 47
          +2
          Yes, I'm all "foreign" or Hollywood (if a worthy film), or Golimut, if there is nothing to watch, I call it))) laughing Regardless of the country. But thanks for the amendment.
          1. vladcub
            vladcub 25 May 2021 12: 27
            +5
            Golimut. A good definition for all sorts of bullshit
          2. Konnick
            Konnick 25 May 2021 18: 25
            0
            As a child, I was greatly impressed by "The Last Man from Atlantis" by Alexander Belyaev. Then I learned everything about Atlantis laughing
            For some reason, there are no adaptations or am I mistaken?
        2. Mihaylov
          Mihaylov 25 May 2021 12: 17
          +2
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          The film is actually British.

          Good afternoon Anton,
          wow, I would never have thought, I also considered it a Hollywood film. hi
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 25 May 2021 18: 16
            +3
            Hello, Sergey!
            I don't know how it turns out, but I intuitively distinguish British cinema from American cinema. And after all, I saw the film once, at a very young age ... No, of course, before posting a comment, I checked with Wikipedia, but still ...
      4. vladcub
        vladcub 25 May 2021 12: 23
        +2
        Leader, watch similar films more often so that Valery has good material.
        Recently there was a material: "The Tragedy of Sakhalin" and I noticed that Valery has much better work
      5. hohol95
        hohol95 25 May 2021 13: 58
        +1
        And to reread "The End of Atlantis" did not pull good
        From the series of adventures of Alisa Selezneva!
    2. VLR
      25 May 2021 17: 55
      +3
      Thanks for seeing the typo, we managed to fix it
  3. parusnik
    parusnik 25 May 2021 05: 56
    +6
    Questions, questions ... many of them have no answer.
  4. Olgovich
    Olgovich 25 May 2021 06: 34
    +7
    One of the consequences of this earthquake was the tsunami wave that hit Crete, the height of which, according to various estimates, was from 100 to 250 meters

    A 7-point earthquake in the Mediterranean usually causes a 20 meter tsunami:

    07.06.1965/7/20 Greece Gulf of Corinth ,, XNUMX points - wave height XNUMX m

    07.09.1956/7.5/20 Greece Amorgos Island XNUMX points - wave height XNUMX m

    What magnitude should the earthquake be for a wave with a height of 250 m? belay recourse

    1628 BC
    The coast of the entire eastern Mediterranean was flooded wave 60 meters in height caused by a volcanic eruption in Santorini, a Greek island in the Aegean Sea. It is to this tsunami that the main role in the death of the Minoan culture is attributed.


    It is interesting that tsunamis also occur in the Black Sea:

    11.09.1927/6.8/1 Ukraine Black Sea XNUMX points wave height XNUMX meter

    In Romania in 1938, with 7 points of a tsunami with a height of 1 m.

    They even write about a 1 m high tsunami on the Sea of ​​Azov and the Sea of ​​Marmara ...
    1. Daniil Konovalenko
      Daniil Konovalenko 25 May 2021 11: 35
      +2
      They even write about a 1 m high tsunami on the Sea of ​​Azov
      ..There is a seismic zone, earthquakes up to 4-5 points, periodically, the most active zone on the Taman Peninsula.
    2. vladcub
      vladcub 25 May 2021 12: 32
      +2
      "I have not seen a 1-meter-high tsunami on the Sea of ​​Azov, but I was familiar with Dolzhansky, near Yeisk, and once saw and said: an impressive sight
      1. Radius
        Radius 27 May 2021 15: 56
        0
        Quote: vladcub
        "I have not seen a 1-meter-high tsunami on the Sea of ​​Azov, but I was familiar with Dolzhansky, near Yeisk, and once saw and said: an impressive sight

        There is hardly a tsunami on Azov. But wind surges are not uncommon. And there are very catastrophic ones.
        1. vladcub
          vladcub 27 May 2021 20: 52
          0
          One fig that's so bad, that's so
  5. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 25 May 2021 07: 10
    +8

    The animal in the foreground caused surprise. Freshwater rays usually have a rounded body shape.
    Thank you, Valery!
    1. svd-xnumx
      svd-xnumx 25 May 2021 20: 37
      +3
      Megaliths of Yonaguni:

      Rock Lake Pyramid

      judging by the photo, these are pictures of the same building
  6. Van 16
    Van 16 25 May 2021 07: 26
    +9
    Thank you very much Valery for the article, very interesting!
    I remembered why then- "And this abyss swallowed her at one moment, in general, everyone died" (c)
  7. Undecim
    Undecim 25 May 2021 07: 45
    +12
    Seismologists believe that the power of this eruption was approximately equal to the explosion of 200 thousand atomic bombs dropped by the Americans on Hiroshima.

    Author, cut the sturgeon in half. Even PHIL PLAIT does not give more than 100.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 25 May 2021 07: 57
      +7
      Hello, Victor Nikolaevich!
      And you can read more?
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 25 May 2021 08: 20
        +6
        Hello Anton.
        I will return home, I will definitely answer.
      2. Undecim
        Undecim 25 May 2021 10: 44
        +9
        As promised - in more detail.
        Scientists, including seismologists, do not use nuclear or thermonuclear bombs to assess the strength of volcanic eruptions; they use the VEI scale of volcanic activity (Volcanic Explosivity Index).
        This scale is based on two indicators: the volume of ejected products (tephra) and the height of the ash column (eruptive column).
        VEI was developed in 1982 by volcanologists Christopher Newhall and Stephen Self.
        The scale range is from 0 ("non-explosive", the volume of emissions is less than 10 thousand m³, the height of the eruptive column is less than 100 meters) to 8 (“megacolossal”, the volume of emissions is more than 1000 km³, the height of the eruptive column is more than 25 km).
        Today, the Minoan eruption on this scale, according to estimates by various researchers, ranges from 6 ("colossal", the volume of emissions is more than 10 km³, the height of the eruptive column is more than 20 km) to 7 points (the more than 100 km.
        You understand that the ordinary reader is bored with all this, so various popularizers of science (I named one) are beginning to count how many nuclear bombs need to be detonated in order to get similar emissions. You yourself understand that the accuracy of such calculations is a very flexible concept and the numbers walk within very wide limits.
        Wikipedia counted 200; in 000, three NASA scientists counted 1989 Hiroshima.
        Such numbers should not be taken seriously.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 25 May 2021 14: 35
          +4
          Thank you Victor Nikolaevich!
          And I really thought that Astrohacker Plate is such a versatile person that he put his hand here too.
  8. Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 25 May 2021 07: 48
    +9
    Good morning. Valery, you are lovely: you have started an interesting cycle. There will be something to read and talk about.
    Now I'll give the girls to read. Then there will be questions: we are naturally curious
  9. A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 25 May 2021 08: 16
    +5
    An excellent selection of materials. Thanks to the Author.
    The only thing:
    The expression "Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas" - "Plato is my friend, but the truth is dearer", formulated by Cervantes in the 2nd part, ch. 51 of the novel "Don Quixote" in 1615. Does it have any relation to Atlantis? "The question is certainly interesting ..." (c) hi
    1. vladcub
      vladcub 25 May 2021 12: 37
      +1
      The author will say "Privalov, at the wicked." Shyutka
      1. A. Privalov
        A. Privalov 25 May 2021 13: 16
        +7
        Quote: vladcub
        The author will say "Privalov, at the wicked." Shyutka

        So that the Author is not sad.
        The Legend of the Wrath of the Lord.

        The Almighty glanced at the Earth: everyone sells, drinks, debauchery all around.
        The L-rd was angry, called the angels and said:
        - Notify all church hierarchs that I am giving them exactly one month. If people do not correct themselves, there will be a new global flood!

        The angels called representatives of all religions and conveyed to them the words of the All-holder.

        Then the patriarch gathered his flock and said:
        - Christians, among us there is debauchery, drunkenness, deception. We must pray every day for a month, otherwise the Heavenly Father will punish us and cause a worldwide flood.

        The Imam gathered his followers and announced:
        - Faithful, among us there is debauchery, drunkenness, deception. We must pray every day for a month, otherwise Allah will punish us and arrange a worldwide flood.

        And the chief rabbi called the Jews and told them:
        - Jews! We have with you exactly one month to learn how to live under water.
        1. vladcub
          vladcub 25 May 2021 14: 17
          +4
          Are the Jews such sinners that they will not stop sinning under water?
          1. A. Privalov
            A. Privalov 25 May 2021 15: 11
            +3
            Quote: vladcub
            Are the Jews such sinners that they will not stop sinning under water?

            Why stop?
            I will tell you, as God's chosen one, to the God-bearer.
            Those who themselves introduced the concept of sin for mankind could not help inventing an emergency way out of this situation. Moreover, the Lord himself commanded and commanded.
            Who are we to resist His will?

            Leviticus 16: 29-30. Synodal translation.

            hi
            1. vladcub
              vladcub 25 May 2021 19: 16
              0
              Can you sin the rest of the time?
              Yes, but what is the difference between God-chosen and God-bearer? Maybe we’ll swing?
              1. A. Privalov
                A. Privalov 25 May 2021 20: 05
                +1
                Quote: vladcub
                Can you sin the rest of the time?
                Yes, but what is the difference between God-chosen and God-bearer? Maybe we’ll swing?

                Some can sin, others need to. This is exclusively due to the need and demand of everyone. For it is said: "You will not sin - you will not repent."
                But I do not recommend swinging. You will have to cut off, and I will have to sew back. One word is hemorrhoids. hi
                1. vladcub
                  vladcub 26 May 2021 13: 31
                  0
                  And if without circumcision? After all, not all of you are die-hard fanatics
                  1. A. Privalov
                    A. Privalov 26 May 2021 13: 55
                    0
                    It is possible without.
                    Is that the only thing that scares you? Do not be afraid, come.
                    Bruhim abaIm! (Blessed are those who come in!) hi
                    1. vladcub
                      vladcub 26 May 2021 15: 21
                      +1
                      "scary. Languages ​​not taught" (c) Suddenly I need it out of need, but I cannot explain what I need. Confusion can happen
                      1. A. Privalov
                        A. Privalov 26 May 2021 15: 32
                        0
                        Quote: vladcub
                        "scary. Languages ​​not taught" (c) Suddenly I need it out of need, but I cannot explain what I need. Confusion can happen

                        Show with gestures. They will understand you. wassat
                        As I understand it, there is nothing more to tell you in essence. We will finish this flame.
                        Be healthy. hi
  10. Catfish
    Catfish 25 May 2021 08: 56
    +7
    Thank you very much Valery, to be honest, I did not expect such an article from him. good
    In my youth, I myself walked under water in the area of ​​Ancient Chersonesos. In particular, in Streletskaya Bay, at the request of local archaeologists, they investigated a (presumably) submerged farm. But I have already talked about this here and will not repeat myself. Thanks again to Valery, it was nice to remember my youth. smile
  11. Dym71
    Dym71 25 May 2021 09: 22
    +3
    This is the ancient Shichen (founded around 670), which after the construction of a hydroelectric power plant in the 1950s. ended up at the bottom of the man-made lake Qiandaohu. Together with him, another 30 small towns and almost 400 villages were at the bottom.

    30 small cities with a population of over one million and 400 villages with a population of 100-200 thousand each! fellow
    Valery bows low for the work! hi
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 25 May 2021 09: 45
      +2
      Without population, I hope? ))
      1. Dym71
        Dym71 25 May 2021 10: 32
        +7
        Quote: Krasnodar
        Without population, I hope? ))

        In the spring, a bear, a fox and a wolf met. The fox, all shabby, complains:
        - Life has become hard - the owner of the chicken coop missed several chickens and
        set traps. Somehow escaped from there.
        The wolf, dented and torn:
        - Yeah, it's hard to live! At the sheepfold, the watchman also lacked sheep -
        I planted the wolfhound. Barely fought off him!
        One bear sits, is silent and shiny.
        Wolf with Fox and ask him:
        - Misha, are you okay or what?
        Bear:
        - And I spent the winter at the construction site. There are only Gaster working there, and who counts them?
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 25 May 2021 11: 12
          +3
          Weizmir! lol
          Mao, according to legend, told Khrushchev during the Cuban Missile Crisis:
          “Why are they afraid of nuclear war? Even if 2/3 of China's population dies, in 30 years the original number will be restored. " fellow
          1. Dym71
            Dym71 25 May 2021 15: 20
            +3
            Quote: Krasnodar
            Weizmir!

            We will destroy violence! wink
            I remembered what I wanted to write for the Chinese villages:
            We have an enterprise in our region, Shchekinoazot (owner Boris Sokol, well, you understand Al! drinks ) and so is the secondary polypropylene:

            - one of the types of products supplied abroad, where the Europeans mechanically weeded out 3-5% of the marriage, and they didn’t eat gut, and at the factory they broke all the bright heads to avoid such a tsores, but all to no avail. And at the very first deliveries to the Celestial Empire, no more than 1% of marriage was detected, a creative group flew away from the enterprise, which discovered that the carriages were being unloaded from a modest (by Chinese standards) village (one thousand per three hundred population laughing ) directly onto the tarpaulin, where for three cans of stew per day, entot secondary PP is sorted out manually! belay
            And all the business! wassat
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 25 May 2021 15: 25
              0
              So what prevents him from putting several people here for a couple of thousand before shipment? ))
              1. Dym71
                Dym71 25 May 2021 15: 27
                +2
                Quote: Krasnodar
                So what prevents him from putting several people here for a couple of thousand before shipment? ))

                Dear, I beg you, the entire population of the city of Shchekino is 57 thousand.
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 25 May 2021 15: 41
                  +1
                  The entire population of the village of Kamenny is much smaller, but people are going to bust cherry plums and apples))
                  1. Dym71
                    Dym71 25 May 2021 15: 53
                    +2
                    Quote: Krasnodar
                    The entire population of the village of Kamenny is much smaller, but people are going to bust cherry plums and apples))

                    Quote: mrcplast.ru
                    Production volumes exceed 1 million tons per year, of which about 70% is exported to Europe, the CIS, Asia, North and South America.

                    So I will answer with a quote from Aunt Pesya:
                    Quote: "Liquidation"

                    - Here we respect you, but ugh under your feet for your heart of stone!

                    wassat
                    1. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 25 May 2021 17: 44
                      +1
                      Taki oh - Sokol krasava laughing
        2. vladcub
          vladcub 25 May 2021 14: 12
          +2
          Cool anecdote. Need to remember
  12. depressant
    depressant 25 May 2021 09: 35
    +5
    Good morning friends!)))
    Well, Atlantis is far away, Heraklion is near.
    Of course, every sunken city deserves the closest attention, but Heraklion, found in 2000, evokes a whole series of associations with well, I would say, scrupulously illuminated ancient history in VO, and therefore I would like to talk at least a little about him, Heraklion.

    The most striking thing is that nowhere in the sources of the corresponding prescription nothing is said about the death of Heraklion, and the researchers established the name of the city from the inscription on the very plate that is shown in the photograph.
    Here is the esteemed Valery states:

    In the center of this city, the temple of Hercules, described by Herodotus, was found. Scientists believe that the reason for the sinking of this city to the bottom is a series of earthquakes that lasted for 50 years, which led to the death of about 50 city-states of the Bronze Age. It was then that the sea level rose by 7,5 meters, which led to the flooding of the coastal cities of Egypt.

    But there is another opinion.
    In ancient historical chronicles, there are records of many large earthquakes and tsunamis, including those that destroyed government palaces in the eastern part of Alexandria harbor in 365 AD, but there is not a single mention of a natural disaster in the form of an earthquake that caused the death of Heraklion. It looks like Heraklion never existed, but he is! Moreover, it is considered not a suburb of Alexandria, but a completely independent urban entity. In any case, there is a flooded urban settlement, which, in accordance with the record on the plate, modern researchers call Heraklion.
    Versions have begun.
    For example, a certain professor Nur put forward the assumption that there was an earthquake after all, but it was not any earthquake known from the chronicles that led, in addition to Heraklion, to the destruction of a number of famous cities, but a local underwater earthquake that arose and stretched from the Gulf of Suez across the Gulf Abukir to the island of Crete, since it is here that there is a tectonic crack that ran parallel to the entire coastline of North Africa. But then where is the entry in the chronicles? But the city was, apparently, not small.

    Jean-Daniel Stanley, senior oceanographer at the Smithsonian Institution in Washington DC, believes the Nile was most likely responsible for the destruction, rather than tremors. The researcher does not rule out an earthquake, but, in his opinion, a flood caused by the flooding of the Nile is more likely.
    Indeed, North of Cairo, the Nile is divided into several branches, small and large. One of the largest branches once flowed near Heraklion. Studying earlier images of the bottom layers of the Nile delta, Jean-Daniel Stanley came to the conclusion that 2 thousand years ago, the Nile arm in question, under the influence of incomprehensible natural disasters, shifted several kilometers to the East, before becoming shallow and completely disappearing. The shift of the sleeve gave rise to such a wave that instantly flooded the city. Again, where is the mention in the chronicles?
    In fact, Heraklion stood on the swampy soils of the Nile Delta - an invitation to flooding!
    1. depressant
      depressant 25 May 2021 09: 57
      +5
      I would like to supplement my comment.
      The amazing thing about the history of the flooding of Heraklion is that it was a port city. It was the gateway to Ancient Egypt. He was widely known. But now, it flooded it, and there is no response to this event, important for the economy of the entire Mediterranean region, in any of the chronicles of any of the neighboring states connected with ancient Egypt by economic ties.

      And Heraklion lies only at a depth of 6 meters. Could it have been discovered earlier? Maybe yes. But the city was found by accident, when archaeologists participated in the search and recovery of the sunken ships of the Napoleonic fleet, sunk in 1798 by the British led by Admiral Nelson.
      1. depressant
        depressant 25 May 2021 11: 20
        +5
        And finally, the last addition to Heraklion.
        I am inclined to the version of large-scale misfortunes that befell the trading area of ​​the Mediterranean and adjacent territories. Namely, to a series of a series of large earthquakes, or volcanic eruptions. That is, in the version of the esteemed Valery.
        Indeed, in a situation when everything collapses and burns, it goes to dust, the economy of many territories fell into decay, trade relations were simply cut off, we had to take serious care of our own economy, simultaneously repelling the raids of unscrupulous neighbors who did not suffer misfortune. As a result, the disappearance of Heraklion, located 25 km from Alexandria, went unnoticed. As they say, it was not before.
      2. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 25 May 2021 11: 45
        +6
        My compliments, Lyudmila Nikolaevna. hi
        The absence of entries in the chronicles can easily be explained, for example, by the fact that the city was not sinking quickly, at once, but gradually. The land sank, for example, by five centimeters a year (gigantic speeds, by the way! - in a hundred years - a meter, I read somewhere that it was with such a speed that the Australian continent is rushing now towards North America), people retreated until everything went under the water. Maybe now it continues to leave. They won't write about this in the chronicles.
        A person is not even able to see the movement of the clockwise hand, not that to see how his nails grow, although the nails grow much faster than the continents move.
        There is a hypothesis, for example, that back in the XNUMXth century, at the time of Alexander Nevsky, Koporye and Narva were seaports in the full sense of the word - they stood on the shores of the Gulf of Finland. Now both are located ten kilometers from the coastline. Well, if the land in this place did not rise, but fell, it is quite possible that now Valery would also write about these cities. And after all, there is not a single mention in the annals that there was a port and there is none. Chroniclers and other chroniclers wrote only about what was visible with their eyes. Fires, famine, wars, devastation - yes, a hurricane, an earthquake - definitely. But few people are still interested in the fact that the grandfather of some Demeklis Popadopoulos had to drag the fish to the market ten meters further than Demeklis himself, or that the house of some Aruf ibn Sallah, who had been washed away by the sea for thirty years, finally something gouged during the next small storm. Well, maybe some hundred-year-old grandfather will say something like “earlier, fifty years ago, there were three more houses, and my grandfather said that in his youth there was a whole village there,” but this will end the matter.
        1. Mihaylov
          Mihaylov 25 May 2021 12: 21
          +5
          Quote: Trilobite Master
          Now both are located ten kilometers from the coastline.

          Good afternoon, Mikhail, this phenomenon seems to me to be a fairly common thing in history: remember the Thermopylae Gorge, now there is a valley, the sea is not even visible.
          Or Tiryns - they say it was a port city, and now - orange orchards are blooming:

          1. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 25 May 2021 13: 20
            +3
            Well, if it can go up, it can go down. Rather, if it has risen somewhere, it must fall somewhere. smile
            A kind of "survivor effect". Rising cities are easier to spot and explore.
        2. depressant
          depressant 25 May 2021 12: 47
          +3
          Good day, Misha!)))
          It may very well be that you are right about the gradual movement of port services west of Heraklion due to the gradual swamping of the area.
          Here is a live example from my practice.
          A large plot of land of my classmate adjoined directly to the railway along the Black Sea. But the coastline was at least 100 meters from the tracks. But once there was such a storm that the railway was washed away, and it turned out that the coastline crept so close to the tracks that the distance to it was reduced, apparently to unacceptable norms. The roads had to be moved, having seized for this part of the land allotment of my classmate. At the same time, mind you, there was no earthquake, just a storm. Although, I remember, from time to time we were shaking. And where is it noted? Even in local newspapers they did not mention it because of the routine of the phenomenon. It was and ended at once. For a short time. We covered the paths and forgot.
          Another example.
          Where 300 Spartans fought, the sea was nearby. And now it is 10 km from that place. I suppose the chroniclers did not strain in this case either, now due to the slowness of the process.
          But, on the other hand, all the columns and buildings of Heraklion fell and lie in the same direction. That is, as it could be from the impact of one mighty wave.
          1. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 25 May 2021 13: 21
            +3
            Quote: depressant
            how could it be from the impact of one mighty wave.

            Or over several decades from the effects of different waves coming from the same direction. smile
          2. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 25 May 2021 14: 56
            +1
            Quote: Trilobite Master
            Lyudmila Nikolaevna.

            I beg your pardon, Lyudmila Yakovlevna. Some names and patronymics are typed completely automatically, without the direct involvement of the brain. recourse
            1. depressant
              depressant 25 May 2021 15: 41
              +2
              Misha, don't worry, the apology is readily accepted! )))
              Personally, I am worried only when an entire department is insolently working under one nickname. I don't want to go to the topic anymore. And there was a lot more to say about the rest of the famous flooded cities.
              1. Trilobite Master
                Trilobite Master 25 May 2021 16: 09
                +2
                Come on, girls don't work, they have fun. Moreover, they openly warn not to mislead the rest. This is fair.
                Or did you mean someone else?
                1. depressant
                  depressant 25 May 2021 18: 27
                  +2
                  Misha, I wrote to you in a personal message, but I'm not sure what it came down to.
              2. Phil77
                Phil77 26 May 2021 09: 00
                +2
                Good morning Lyudmila Yakovlevna!
                Ay, bravo! laughing
                1. depressant
                  depressant 26 May 2021 09: 18
                  +1
                  Seryozha !!!! My dear! love )))))
                  Finally revealed!
                  And then I was worried: where is Seryozha? But there is no Seryozha! I was trying to write everything in a personal with the only question: where is my bright friend - it is dark and gloomy on the forums, there is not enough lighting, the voice of joy fell silent.
                  1. Phil77
                    Phil77 26 May 2021 09: 21
                    +1
                    Overhaul at the factory, time is short. So, sometimes I looked at the site, whenever possible. wink I'll fix it soon. laughing
                    1. depressant
                      depressant 26 May 2021 09: 34
                      +1
                      I really hope so!
                      You know, interest in life, therefore, in the topics proposed for research by the Authors, even among those commentators who are initially biased to any topic, is supported only by the presence of kindred souls on the forum. A person cannot live without light, and if his own is not enough, then the impoverished, tired soul is warmed by the light of others. And you, Seryozha, are a warm sun for everyone. And by your rays I am alive. The repair would be over. )))
                      1. Phil77
                        Phil77 26 May 2021 10: 31
                        +1
                        Lyudmila Yakovlevna-ah-ah! You make me blush, honestly. love love love
                      2. Phil77
                        Phil77 26 May 2021 10: 33
                        +2

                        I am very embarrassed. repeat
                      3. depressant
                        depressant 26 May 2021 10: 59
                        +1
                        Yes, complete, Seryozha! I just have a habit of calling things by their proper names, and by things I mean the assessment of people. Only in extreme cases do I refuse to publicly voice opinions - when a person can simply suffer from my intemperance and my own stupidity. And in this case, according to the rules of registration on the VO website, it is a direct opportunity. If a person does not have enough thinking, then this is a direct hint to him, let him think. This comment of mine, combined with a comment that is no longer excluded from this forum, is a reason for a person to think about it and change the policy to a more restrained one.
      3. hohol95
        hohol95 25 May 2021 14: 12
        +2
        Many people think about saving the Aral Sea. But recently a mausoleum was excavated there (from the 11th to the 15th century) and it turned out that the Aral in ancient times was even smaller than even now. Everything flows, everything changes.
  • Konnick
    Konnick 25 May 2021 10: 15
    +4
    And how many flooded cities in the region of Taman and Kerch. Of the relatively recent discoveries of the city of Acra, underwater excavations are underway, but very sluggish


    The lower picture shows a reconstruction taking into account the current sea level. Depths are about 3 meters. By chance, an honest boy found a gold coin, and this is how it began. The boy himself became an archaeologist.
  • Glory1974
    Glory1974 25 May 2021 10: 20
    +1
    And it seems to me that the photo of the Yonaguni megaliths and the Rock Lake is the same object.
  • Glory1974
    Glory1974 25 May 2021 10: 24
    +3
    In general, the topic of sunken cities is immense. Historians do not have a single view. I would even say that the official history does not particularly investigate this topic, but thanks to the Internet, scattered knowledge from all over the world flows into one channel. Someday the amount of information will turn into quality and a breakthrough will occur, although it can already be stated that the sea level used to be much lower than it is now. Where the water came from is not clear, what preceded the flooding, it is not clear whether the water level can go down or rise, there is also no information.
  • Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master 25 May 2021 10: 30
    +5
    I am, to be honest, a little disappointed. The article came out at a gallop across Europe. Here they found one thing, then another, but everything was somehow fluent, in a hurry. As for some objects, it is not even clear whether they are natural or man-made.
    Particularly interested in the city in the Bay of Cambay, the one that is counted 9500 years old. Here I would like to see more details - after all, the figure is very significant and it is, as it were, at least a couple of millennia older than any other famous city on the planet.
    The Wiki says that this date was given by a piece of carbonated wood, but there are no references to the sources, but what kind of piece, where was it found, etc. Not written.
    Anyway, the topic is interesting, it's a pity to go through it so fluently. Here, for each of the objects listed in the article, you can write a separate article - with a retelling of legends, as Valery loves (just be sure to indicate that this is unconfirmed information that Valery does not really like smile ) and analysis of the purely scientific information available on them.
    And so - yes, interesting.
    We are waiting for the foray of folk historians with irrefutable evidence that all these are Slavic-Aryan cities. laughing
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 25 May 2021 10: 44
      +5
      We are waiting for the foray of folk historians ...

      Chu, you can already hear the clatter of tarpaulin boots and the neigh of Savraska! laughing
      1. depressant
        depressant 25 May 2021 11: 29
        +3
        Good afternoon, Kostya! )))
        And what can "folk historians" oppose to scientific data?
        1. ee2100
          ee2100 25 May 2021 11: 48
          +3
          Lyudmila Yakovlevna, what scientific data did you mention?
          1. depressant
            depressant 25 May 2021 13: 19
            +2
            Alexander, well, in the case of Heraklion, for example:
            Proponents of the earthquake theory point to a crevice running through one of the temples, 3 meters wide, 1,5 meters deep and several hundred meters long. This crevice, according to Professor Noor, was the result of tectonic shifts causing earthquakes. Noor Stanley's opponent is inclined to think that the rift was created by flooding - the soil was washed up from below and crawled away: “There is nothing unique about such rifts,” says Jean-Daniel Stanley. "They are found in the deltas of major rivers such as the Mississippi in the United States and the Yangtze in China."

            Note, no one talks about the war with the Martians)))
            1. ee2100
              ee2100 25 May 2021 14: 01
              +2
              It surprised me that according to this article only with a very big desire can folk stories go through
        2. Catfish
          Catfish 25 May 2021 11: 54
          +5
          Good afternoon, Luda! love
          Like what! True faith in one's righteousness and unbending conviction of the spirit! laughing
          1. depressant
            depressant 25 May 2021 12: 59
            +4
            This I noted, sorting through the bones of the history of the discovery of Heraklion.
            Some titled with foam at the mouth shout: "The wave was from the sea!"
            Others, no less titled, with a growl argue: "No, the tsunami rolled from the side of the Nile arm as a result of the overflow of the latter with melt water!"
            Still others mumble thoughtfully: "Yes, the swamp is there, the city gradually moved, and you can't take the buildings with you. And then the floodplain subsided, the hole was flooded with water, everything went to the bottom ..."
            And what do you want? High science! wassat
          2. vladcub
            vladcub 25 May 2021 14: 08
            +2
            Kostya, hello. What kind of dance is this? Like a monkey and a man
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 25 May 2021 14: 24
              +1
              Hello Slava. There are two monkeys. laughing Read it higher, this is a hint of "dancing with tambourines" of our folk historians.
              1. vladcub
                vladcub 25 May 2021 18: 39
                +1
                I wonder how they will rate it? We understand that, but how will they perceive it? I would like to know
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 25 May 2021 18: 54
                  +1
                  Yes, as the monkeys will perceive, the intellect is on the level. laughing
                  1. vladcub
                    vladcub 25 May 2021 19: 03
                    +1
                    Thank you amused
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 25 May 2021 19: 41
                      0
                      The most funny ... from their verbiage.
                      1. vladcub
                        vladcub 26 May 2021 13: 38
                        +1
                        Laughter laughter, and there are many of them
                      2. Catfish
                        Catfish 26 May 2021 14: 15
                        +2
                        There are also many cockroaches, but somehow we still live. smile
                      3. vladcub
                        vladcub 26 May 2021 15: 16
                        +1
                        Heehee. I'll clarify: we coexist
    2. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 25 May 2021 12: 04
      +4
      Quote: depressant
      what can "folk historians" oppose to scientific data

      Logic and common sense, of course. laughing Well, your own logic and your own common sense. For example, if 5x5 = 25, and 6x6 = 36, then 7x7 will be equal to 47 - this is logical, obvious and understandable.
      And, the most important thing is that, for example, about Heraklion, as well as about many other things, there is nothing in school history textbooks, which means that "historians are hiding," and they can only hide our great past, because they have nothing more to hide. Hence the logical conclusion: Heraklion is evidence of our great past. And to justify why ours is generally a couple of trifles.
      Want to? laughing
      1. ee2100
        ee2100 25 May 2021 12: 44
        +3
        Are you saying that history is contrary to logic and common sense?
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 25 May 2021 13: 50
          +1
          That "common sense" according to which 7x7 = 47 - yes.
          This mistake, by the way, is very typical for pseudo-historians, just in the case of the multiplication table it appears in a completely hypertrophied and therefore absurd form. But the meaning, its essence does not change from this.
          Imagine a person who is completely unfamiliar with either historical science or mathematics. And this person accidentally finds out that 5x5 = 25. Already there is something in this ... suspicious. And then someone tells him that 6x6 = 36. Well, here, of course, everything is clear, the pattern is obvious - 7x7 = 47, 8x8 = 58, 9x9 = 69. And to prove to him that this is not so, telling what addition is, how the correct answers are obtained is impossible, because it contradicts his "logic and common sense".
          The same nonsense happens to history, but on a more complex level. Several scattered facts, carefully selected by some Fomenko or Klesov and carefully placed in the brain, burdened with historical knowledge exclusively within the framework of a long-forgotten school curriculum - and voila! - seven seven - forty seven. And if he is still prompted to count the number of syllables in examples and answers - generally atas!
          Five five is three syllables. Twenty five - three syllables.
          Six six is ​​three syllables. Thirty six - three syllables.
          Seven seven - three syllables. Forty-nine, according to official mathematics, four syllables. A discrepancy. And if "forty-seven" - then everything fits!
          Let's check further?
          eight eight - fifty eight. Five syllables, it all fits. According to the official version - sixty four - six syllables.
          And so on.
          Particularly advanced followers of "New Mathematics" as a criticism of "TM" - traditional mathematics - will say that between seven and eight there were more examples of the multiplication of other numbers - four-syllable, because like this - from three-syllable right to five-syllable. Mathematicians have hidden a number of numbers from us!
          And all this, Alexander, in accordance with logic and common sense! At the level of awareness that our hypothetical object, not familiar with mathematics, has.
          It is not by chance that I have been saying for a long time (including you): if you want to understand history, read the works of historians. Well, you at least study the primary sources, it is true, in translations, outside the context of the era, etc., but still study. Others cannot do this, but to reason based on their "common sense" - please.
          1. ee2100
            ee2100 25 May 2021 14: 56
            +3
            Michael!
            The example given by you is very incorrect. Arithmetic is an exact science and an example of "banal" logic is not appropriate here. It's like comparing the incomparable. Applying this method, you yourself play the role of a thimble.
            If we talk about it, we must talk about the process, where the main thing is: logical or not logical.
            Common sense is generally a collection of views. The totality of a person's views developed on the basis of his knowledge, life experience.
            I understand why you refuse to use these tools to interpret certain historical facts.
            "Several scattered facts, carefully selected by some Fomenko or Klesov and carefully placed in the brain, burdened with historical knowledge exclusively within the framework of a long-forgotten school curriculum - and voila!"
            About Klesov. A person who, in the process of work, received certain conclusions and made them public, and also turned to historians to speak out on this matter, on the part of the latter, only accusations of false scientificity and labeling.
            Western historical science makes full use of genetic research methods.
            You threw me a link, for which many thanks, here it is:
            https://warhead.su/2019/03/10/govoryaschie-kosti-bratskie-mogily-srednevekovya
            The article is called "Mary Rose": the sea gives up the dead. "
            "In 1545, the Mary Rose sank in the English Channel. There were four hundred soldiers and sailors on board, most of whom died in a shipwreck. Later, the ship and everything that remained there was raised and examined. Judging by the remains , the average height of soldiers and sailors was 171 centimeters.A study of the teeth of the victims showed that about a quarter of the crew were not British, but immigrants from the Mediterranean. A number of skeletons also bear traces of deformation characteristic of professional archers. Was people in the Middle Ages short? finds of warriors who died in the battles of that time give an average height of about 170 centimeters. Vikings of the earlier era were taller. "
            Everything seems to be fine, but the "dental study" is a genetic analysis and as a result of which it became clear that 25% of the crew were not British, but "migrant workers" from the Mediterranean.
            Historians are in no hurry to comment on this fact?
            "It is not by chance that I have been saying for a long time (including you): if you want to understand history, read the works of historians." (C)
            I try to read primary sources. Which I advise everyone to do. Your conclusions, albeit incorrect, will be based on common sense and logic.
            You can read the works of historians and you can read history textbooks. But the approach there is mostly tendentious and does not allow one to look at history soundly. It's like having sex on the phone, or rather by correspondence.
            1. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 25 May 2021 15: 57
              -1
              As for Klesov, I'm already tired of explaining.
              His DNA genealogy is just a distorted piece of another scientific discipline - population genetics.
              Fragment - because it takes into account only one component of the human genome, distorted - because the data of genetic passports are taken selectively and conclusions are drawn from the sample.
              Normal scientists judge the origin and development of this or that ethnic group by three main features (simplified), three "whales" - genetics, language and material culture. Moreover, within the framework of genetics, the entire genome is examined, and not just haplogroups.
              While normal conscientious scientists are trying to come to some specific conclusions, studying the genetic, linguistic and cultural relationship of certain peoples, Klesov has already decided everything on the basis of haplogroups alone. Sorry, but this can only be called clinical dementia or malicious misinformation. That is, the author of such concepts is either a fool or a scoundrel. I personally lean towards the latter. As for the controversy, there is enough criticism of Klesov on the Internet. And no one wants to conduct a full-time polemic with him simply because he, besides being a swindler, is also just a bazaar boor. Read the materials of his correspondence polemic with Klein.
              An example with mathematics is exaggerated to the limit. But your Klyosov itself is no less striking example of the same thing, only more complex and applied to historical science. Not knowing anything about source studies or archeology, he allows himself to talk about these subjects and reasoning is obtained precisely at the level of "seven seven - forty seven". You can spend time, look at the "reformat" and give examples of such fabrications of it, but to be honest, I am too lazy. A couple of years ago or more, I went there several times, I don't want to any more - a waste of time. If you want, I can make out some of his small articles of your choice. Only a little.
              As for studying only primary sources ... You know our regular holy fool by the name of Bar. You may even remember his "scientific discovery" regarding the law of Ivan III. This is about St. George's Day, they say "refuse" the peasants the transition, it means "forbid". Are you sure that without preliminary preparation you will be able to correctly understand what exactly is written in the sources? Moreover, translated from Old Russian or Middle High German? But it's not even a matter of translation. "Seven miles in three ways" of Russian chronicles, "fell on the grass", "sixty-on-one" German chronicles, will you also understand literally or in accordance with your common sense? Then keep in mind that "in accordance with their common sense "in this case is synonymous with the expression" as you please. "My common sense tells me that if you want to understand something, it is better to consult with experts. Their opinion may be different, but they will certainly help to develop their point of view, and this is better than drawing conclusions, deliberately limiting yourself in information and believing that those who worked on the topic of interest to you before were many times more stupid than you.
              1. ee2100
                ee2100 25 May 2021 17: 03
                +2
                "Klesov has already decided everything on the basis of haplogroups alone" (c)
                A haplogroup is a group of similar haplotypes and having the same ancestor.
                And Klesov himself says that DNA geneology is a section of population genetics. It also explains why it takes only the Y chromosome.
                According to the link to the article, material suitable for research is isolated from the dental canal and the region of its habitat is determined by the haplogroup, in this case the Mediterranean. World practice.
                The article does not even suggest how these people ended up on board the English ship.
                In Gotland, during the excavation of a cemetery from the time of the Vikings, a lot of the "Mongolian" gene was isolated. And no one explains this.
                Klyosov did not discover anything new, he is trying to practically apply the results obtained as a result of research
                The sampling method is statistical.
                It is possible to study ethnos by language and culture, and conclusions can be drawn. For example, by genotype, Estonians belong to the so-called. the Balto-Slavic group, and the language and culture are close to the Finnish group. And what are the conclusions?
                I am not a supporter of Klesov, but all his opponents are trying to prove him wrong on the fingers, and not by providing their genetic research.
                In order for me to have doubts about the correct interpretation of certain events, it was necessary to read a lot of things.
                If you have read one book, then you have no doubts.
                The dispute is empty. As always.
                1. Trilobite Master
                  Trilobite Master 25 May 2021 18: 06
                  -2
                  Quote: ee2100
                  A haplogroup is a group of similar haplotypes and having the same ancestor.

                  A person has more than one ancestor and in each generation their number doubles. Klesov looks at only one line. Where is the logic?
                  Quote: ee2100
                  And Klesov himself says that DNA geneology is a section of population genetics.

                  He says that this is precisely science. Self-reliant and self-sufficient. He is an academician of this very science.
                  Quote: ee2100
                  It also explains why it takes only the Y chromosome.

                  And you were satisfied with his explanations? Where is the logic and common sense? Children are brought up, as a rule by their mother, at the initial stage of life, for sure. They perceive both language and culture from their mother. How, in this case, can one identify ethnicity by the Y-chromosome? How can this be done at all? fool
                  Quote: ee2100
                  The sampling method is statistical.

                  If it is based on random selection. Klesov's selection is selective.
                  Quote: ee2100
                  For example, by genotype, Estonians belong to the so-called. the Balto-Slavic group, and the language and culture are close to the Finnish group. And what are the conclusions?

                  That Klesov is an eccentric with the letters "M". I do not know what is the frequency of distribution of certain genotypes among Estonians (or rather, the modern population of Estonia), but I would not call them "Balto-Slavic" or some other. It is Klesov who is a master of giving genes markers such as "Slavic", "Finnish", etc. This is nonsense and nonsense. Comparison of genes can only show with whom a particular person had common biological ancestors and when exactly. The foci of the spread of certain genotypes can provide information about the place of birth of the ancestor of a particular person. Everything.
                  A loving Georgian came to one Siberian village, inhabited mainly by Yakuts, and walked around several girls there. Born as an evil, sons. Thirty years later, half of the village has the haplogroup of this Georgian. Are they now - are they all Georgians there? The story is real.
                  Quote: ee2100
                  his opponents are trying to prove him wrong on the fingers, and not by providing their genetic research.

                  His followers do not read his opponents. Or they don’t understand. The bottom line is that his research methods are initially flawed, and the subject of research, as such, is absent. No one is interested in what genetic material it collects, since it does not provide reliable and verifiable information about how it samples samples, according to what criteria, in what quantity, and does not provide complete results. It should be like this: according to such and such criteria with such and such a purpose, there and there are selected so many people from whom genetic materials were taken. The following studies have been carried out. The result is: this, that and that, just so much. The figure with the number of samples taken should converge.
                  In short, give me an article, I will show you by its example what is wrong with Klesov.
                  1. ee2100
                    ee2100 25 May 2021 19: 02
                    +2
                    You commented on almost everything, except for the link to the article, which clearly talks about linking some of the gene material from the vessel "Mary Rose" to the Mediterranean region.
                    There is no need to subject Klesov's work and results to theoretical analysis. Let like-minded people conduct research, publish results and draw their conclusions.
                    There was a video on this site, 17.04. where Klyosov and the historian German Artamonov discussed the Norman theory.
                    He did not say anything new and this video was more like an announcement of the joint activities of these two participants in the recording. Maybe I'm wrong.
                    If not, then you need to wait a bit and see the result.
                  2. Trilobite Master
                    Trilobite Master 25 May 2021 22: 23
                    0
                    Quote: ee2100
                    besides the link to the article,

                    I just don't find it important. In the context of the discussion, this question seems to me completely unnecessary and I am even surprised that you attach such importance to it that you are ready to constantly return to it. But since you insist - if you please.
                    The study of the teeth of the victims showed that about a fourth of the crew were not British, but immigrants from the Mediterranean.

                    You are probably interested in this part of the article.
                    Quote: ee2100
                    According to the link to the article, material suitable for research is isolated from the dental canal and the region of its habitat is determined by the haplogroup, in this case the Mediterranean.

                    And here you are already wrong. In fact, DNA can be extracted from the teeth, but in this case, enamel was taken from the teeth. The enamel of only eight people was examined, and in two, isotopes characteristic of North Africa or Spain were actually found in the enamel. The rest are from England. The only way to find out where the owners of these teeth were born and raised is. One of the conventional "Englishmen", that is, born and raised in England, by the way, was a Negroid. smile
                    Genetics will give only what I said - kinship and the focus of the genotype, but not the place of birth or ethnicity of a person.
                    Quote: ee2100
                    The article does not even suggest how these people ended up on board the English ship.

                    It does not even indicate that "a quarter of the crew" is only two people (out of eight investigated), while at least five hundred were on the ship during the disaster. Thanks to the author for not inventing something at least here. He simply told us by direct test that the crew had 125 people from the Mediterranean (well, of eight, two means a quarter) and stopped there. laughing
                    Are you satisfied
                    It took me half an hour in the evening to collect this information. Most of the information is from here.
                    https://ridus-ru.turbopages.org/ridus.ru/s/news/353536
                    If you want, check it out.
                    Quote: ee2100
                    Your like-minded people will conduct research, publish the results and draw their conclusions.

                    Already conducted and published. But Klesov's supporters are completely uninteresting, alas.
                  3. ee2100
                    ee2100 25 May 2021 22: 36
                    +1
                    Well then, a link to the research done
                  4. Trilobite Master
                    Trilobite Master 26 May 2021 00: 19
                    0
                    Complete, if you bother looking.
                    Go to "genofond.rf", where they usually post the latest news on genetics.
                    Criticism of Klesov here:
                    http://генофонд.рф/?page_id=1235
                    About the Slavs here:
                    http://генофонд.рф/?page_id=5139
                    Or here
                    http://генофонд.рф/?page_id=1774
                    See what interests you.
                  5. ee2100
                    ee2100 26 May 2021 09: 04
                    +1
                    Thank you Michael. I will read it and let you know.
          2. IS-80_RVGK2
            IS-80_RVGK2 26 May 2021 01: 47
            -1
            The level of your criticism of Klesov is about the level of a plinth. I especially liked the remark about the ancestors of which in each generation there are twice as many. Very powerful. The truth is, what is said is not clear. Including it looks like you yourself. Apparently on the principle of anyhow, not like Klesov's. Klyosov explains why he primarily considers the Y chromosome. And the explanation is quite normal. All movements of peoples, these are movements of mainly men, women went by a trailer. And they often borrowed a new address from local aborigines when it was peaceful, when not.
            Quote: Trilobite Master
            And you were satisfied with his explanations? Where is the logic and common sense? Children are brought up, as a rule by their mother, at the initial stage of life, for sure. They perceive both language and culture from their mother.

            So what? How does this cancel out what Klyosov says?
            Quote: Trilobite Master
            How, in this case, can one identify ethnicity by the Y-chromosome?

            In the same way as for shards and other artifacts.
            Quote: Trilobite Master
            This is nonsense and nonsense. Comparison of genes can only show with whom a particular person had common biological ancestors and when exactly. The foci of the spread of certain genotypes can provide information about the place of birth of the ancestor of a particular person. Everything.

            Fucking. Do you read what you write? In fact, you say that with the help of genetics, you can establish a person's belonging to a particular nation. Hand face.
            Quote: Trilobite Master
            A loving Georgian came to one Siberian village, inhabited mainly by Yakuts, and walked around several girls there. Born as an evil, sons. Thirty years later, half of the village has the haplogroup of this Georgian. Are they now - are they all Georgians there? The story is real.

            What does this nonsense have to do with what Klyosov says? How did you even manage to draw such conclusions? I've just read from him about a similar example and he says that this is nonsense of the level of popgenetics. Of course, these people will not be Georgians. But within the framework of the entire Yakut people, this will be a statistical error. And the most common haplogroups will most likely be decisive in relation to the earlier history. And of course it won't be Georgian. Although, yes, Georgian DNA joined the composition of the Yakut haplogroups and may well at a certain stage become the most common among the Yakuts and it will be possible to identify by them, it is by these DNAs, regardless of their prevalence of the Yakuts.
            Quote: Trilobite Master
            The bottom line is that his research methods are flawed in the first place.

            The bottom line is that those who criticize him nifiga do not understand what he writes about and, moreover, deliberately misrepresent.
            Quote: Trilobite Master
            In short, give me an article, I will show you by its example what is wrong with Klesov.

            If again there is criticism of the same level as in this comment of yours, it is better not. There is enough nonsense on the Internet without it.
          3. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 26 May 2021 11: 08
            +1
            Well, one more, besides the Operator, was revealed, a stoned Klesovets, for whom the contents of a person's scrotum are more important than the contents of his cranium. laughing
            Well, well, let's talk. smile
            You wrote a good refutation. Silly, but big. Essentially nothing, but a lot. In the best traditions of Klesov and his friends.
            Let's go point by point first.
            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            The truth is what is said is not clear.

            This is apparently a normal state for you. Will explain. The human genome contains information about all of his ancestors. Do you care who your mother is? Your grandmothers? And in general, do not care about relatives on the maternal side? Yes, and don't forget to tell your kids that you don't care who their mother is, that it just doesn't matter. And if they tell you that they don't care either, then you brought them up as it should. laughing
            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            All movements of peoples, these are movements of mainly men, women went by a trailer.

            Yeah, the peasants gathered around the women, leaving their wives and children behind, mounted their horses and galloped away, and there they stayed, with other people's women ... wassat So, in your opinion (and according to Klesov) there were migrations? It seems so ... Although in reality everything was a little different. We went from place to place with childbirth, with all the belongings, wives and children. If in a new place the find-seekers were met with hostility, there was a fight, after which those who remained from both sides began to live side by side, exchanging cultural skills, words in languages ​​and genes, concluding joint marriages. Your Klesov is talking nonsense.
            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            How does this cancel out what Klyosov says?

            Don't you understand again? smile
            And this should be understood so that the ethnicity of the child with different ethnicity of the parents is more influenced by the mother than by the father. So if we mark some genes as "ethnic" (as Klesov does, it is impossible to imagine more stupidity), then first of all it is necessary to study mitochondrial DNA, and not the Y-chromosome.
            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            In the same way as for shards and other artifacts.

            That is, how - do you have a certain gene, then you belong to a certain ethnic group? So what? And if the "shards" speak of a different culture? And the language about belonging to another language family? One nation anyway? Well, well, then you can go to the nearest camp or construction site where Tajiks work and talk to them as representatives of their people.
            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            In fact, you say that with the help of genetics, you can establish a person's belonging to a particular nation.

            I can’t help here. One is written, you are reading another. Or for you, the presence of a common biological ancestor who came out of a certain area is proof of belonging to the same ethnic group? wassat When was the last time you took an intelligence test?
            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            Although, yes, Georgian DNA joined the composition of the Yakut haplogroups and at a certain stage may well become the most common among the Yakuts and it will be possible to identify by them, it is by these DNAs, regardless of their prevalence of the Yakuts.

            But I liked that. Seriously. So common sense has not completely left you yet. You literally said that a Georgian haplogroup that accidentally found itself among the Yakuts can be a marker of the Yakuts, and not of the Georgians. That is, the presence of a particular gene does not affect ethnicity. It is defined by something else. Congratulations, this is progress.
            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            The bottom line is that those who criticize him nifiga do not understand

            They made fun ... smile Balanovsky understands nothing about population genetics, and Klein - about history and archeology ... One Klesov, the beacon of both.
            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            There is enough nonsense on the Internet without it.

            Basically, just through the efforts of Klesov, Fomenko and other chudinovs, as well as their followers, like you, for example.
          4. IS-80_RVGK2
            IS-80_RVGK2 26 May 2021 18: 43
            -1
            Quote: Trilobite Master
            stoned Klesovets

            Very well reasoned. Have you learned such argumentation from popgenetics?
            Quote: Trilobite Master
            The human genome contains information about all of his ancestors. Do you care who your mother is? Your grandmothers? And in general, do not care about relatives on the maternal side? Yes, and don't forget to tell your kids that you don't care who their mother is, that it just doesn't matter. And if they tell you that they don't care either, then you brought them up as it should.

            Why are these snot about mom? Putting pressure on emotions will not work, give argumentation and facts. I explained why the Y chromosome is used. You began to drive away some kind of nonsense and fight with your thoughts attributed to me. I am not interested in such demagoguery.
            Quote: Trilobite Master
            that the ethnicity of the child with different ethnicity of the parents is more influenced by the mother than by the father.

            You happily chose to forget that a person is a social being and a mother can influence ethnicity only in a society of representatives of the same culture. Otherwise, all this influence will happily come to naught in the future. But this is understandable for the apologists of popgenetics; it cannot be otherwise. One feeble mind and demagoguery.
            Quote: Trilobite Master
            That is, how - do you have a certain gene, then you belong to a certain ethnic group? So what?

            In order not to ask stupid questions, first read what the person you criticize writes about this. In the meantime, I see you are familiar with his scientific activities only by the fact that Balanovsky sang to you. Yes it can mean. Or maybe not. It all depends on the totality of the facts. But the fact that correlation is a fact. Otherwise, according to your stupid views, it turns out that genetics cannot connect you with your parents. Fuck knows who you are. Maybe a camel? Or a cat?

            Quote: Trilobite Master
            Or for you, the presence of a common biological ancestor who came out of a certain area is proof of belonging to the same ethnic group?

            If there are other facts, yes proof. The genome itself does not say anything. Exactly like any shards.
            Quote: Trilobite Master
            You literally said that a Georgian haplogroup that accidentally found itself among the Yakuts can be a marker of the Yakuts, and not of the Georgians. That is, the presence of a particular gene does not affect ethnicity.

            By itself, no. And Klyosov never said that. But you're trying hard to credit him with your popgenetic bullshit.
            Quote: Trilobite Master
            Balanovsky understands nothing about population genetics, and Klein - about history and archeology ... One Klesov, the beacon of both.

            No, not a light. But no one is immune from mistakes. And no scientific activity is a criterion for the truth of your ideas regarding any issue. And if it is banal to lie like Balanov's and the company, then in general there are reasonable suspicions of competence. And again, let me remind you, will there be facts and argumentation about Klesov, or again, apart from "I have not read, but I condemn" I will not hear anything?
          5. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 26 May 2021 19: 35
            0
            It would be possible to poke you into quotes from the work of your idol, but I understand that this will also be useless. If you want, you will find it yourself.
            Until then, goodbye. I think I'll see you again in the open spaces of VO.
          6. IS-80_RVGK2
            IS-80_RVGK2 26 May 2021 20: 54
            -1
            Quote: Trilobite Master
            It would be possible to poke you into quotes from the work of your idol, but I understand that this will also be useless.

            Because you screwed up trite.
            And he is not my idol, namely that yours, judging by the way he makes you hysterical.
            You nifiga could not present any facts and intelligible argumentation other than banal empty demagoguery. I have already written, and even it seems to you that I am not a fan of Klesov, some of his ideas are extremely doubtful to me. But this is not a reason to agree with your lies.
            Quote: Trilobite Master
            Until then, goodbye.

            And you don’t get sick.
            Quote: Trilobite Master
            If you want, you will find it yourself.

            Only your favorite popgenetics can search and find what is not there. Well, you are at the same time.
  • Bar1
    Bar1 25 May 2021 22: 35
    -2
    Quote: Trilobite Master
    As for studying only primary sources ... You know our regular holy fool by the name of Bar. You may even remember his "scientific discovery" regarding the law of Ivan III. This is about St. George's Day, they say "refuse" the peasants the transition, it means "forbid".


    flat-flattened trilobite, of course, could not contain the whole essence of what he had read, because before him it was read differently. There is no eye, there is no mind, there is nowhere to simply fit.
    The more pluses there are, the more flattened, with all that it implies.
    -About Christian denial. Christians are refused / allowed from the volost to go to the village for one term per year.
    What is a trilobite? What is denied / allowed? Why doesn't this sentence have a complete meaning? Why IS the volost, but IS the village? Why are spelling rules changing so literally nearby?
    My reading.
    -About Christian denial. Christians are refused from the volost of Issekh / to move out / to move to the village for one term a year, on St. George's Day.
    I have no sense in breaking.
  • depressant
    depressant 25 May 2021 13: 06
    +3
    Misha, I don’t dare to strain you.
    If you are impatient, then the initiative is yours!
    Just don't offer me aliens wassat )))
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 25 May 2021 13: 21
      +3
      Just don't offer me aliens

      Can't you cook them? laughing
      1. depressant
        depressant 25 May 2021 13: 32
        +3
        Come across, I'll cook! Not a bastard! wassat )))
        But, they say, the product is rare, they saw it, but they did not catch it.
        1. Astra wild2
          Astra wild2 25 May 2021 14: 02
          0
          Well said. We laughed
        2. Catfish
          Catfish 25 May 2021 14: 26
          +3
          But they will arrive on their plate, and then there is no need to wash the dishes. smile request
          1. depressant
            depressant 25 May 2021 15: 16
            +3
            Kostya ... Do you suggest eating them raw and not at ease? (((( belay ))))
            Aliens need to be cooked first! The first thing I will do, if they get it, will send them to the pan, or to the pan, or on the baking sheet in the oven. Taking into account the preliminary preparation of the product for cooking or frying, in any of the indicated cases, there is a mountain of dishes that will have to be washed.
            So the benefits of eating aliens in this sense are highly questionable.
            I do not dare to ask: really ... did they use it? winked
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 25 May 2021 15: 54
              +2
              : really ... used?


              I cannot say with certainty "YES" or "NO", because I have some gaps in my biography. Just after drinking. laughing
        3. Richard
          Richard 25 May 2021 18: 51
          0
          depressant: Just don't offer me aliens

          Catfish:: You don't know how to cook them?

          depressant: Come across, I'll cook! Not a bastard! But they say the product is rare

          Many of them are bred in private homes for sale. ask around at the nearest market - they will tell you where to buy yes
          1. depressant
            depressant 25 May 2021 19: 16
            +2
            An alien divorced at home is a bad alien! The quality does not reach the naturally grown planet Blook.
    2. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 25 May 2021 14: 06
      +3
      I have already started. A devastating attack on math! Mathematicians hide! Read to everyone!
      laughing
  • depressant
    depressant 25 May 2021 14: 50
    +4
    No, not so.
    Was Atlantis, or as an example of a decent state created by the imagination of Plato on the basis of the known facts of the drowning of territories - then on the conscience of Plato.
    And against the real facts, as they say, you can't get lucky.
    The fact of the first.
    In 1899, a stele was found in Nokratj (Syria), which is now kept in the Egyptian Museum in Cairo. On it is the text of the decree of Pharaoh Noctanebus the First, the founder of the 30th dynasty, who ascended the throne in November 380 BC. This decree introduced a 10 percent tax on Greek artisans and goods in Nokratja and Tonis, which was to be used to build a temple to the goddess Neith.
    In the implementation of the decree, the text ends with the words: "And His Majesty said:" Let this be carved on a stele erected in Nokratzha, on the banks of the Anu canal. "
    The fact of the second.
    The stele found near Alexandria is no different from the first, except for the last sentence, which says: "And His Majesty said:" Let this be carved on a stele installed at the entrance to the Greek sea in Heraklion-Tonis. "
    The city of Nokratj still exists today and its antiquity can be judged by the stele found in it.
    Heraklion died, and for many centuries they did not know anything about him. But the stele found, completely identical to the first, not only returned his name to history, but also told it: at the behest of which pharaoh, a stone two-meter stele, was created, for what reason. Both steles confirm the reliability of each other, which means the reliability of the name Heraklion. In Egyptology, this is the only case of paired steles.

    Where are the similar facts with regards to Atlantis? There will be - I will believe.
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 25 May 2021 14: 55
    +2
    Quote: Sea Cat
    We are waiting for the foray of folk historians ...

    Chu, you can already hear the clatter of tarpaulin boots and the neigh of Savraska! laughing

    Greetings, Constantine! hi
    There, during the three Moons, the tides were more powerful ...
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 25 May 2021 15: 52
      +3
      Hi Albert! hi
      Well, if you accept them properly, then all three of them can still be seen, and instead of the tide - the arrival. laughing drinks
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 25 May 2021 16: 07
        +1
        drinks Acid is a tricky thing laughing
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 25 May 2021 16: 08
          +1
          I do not argue, however, everything is in the past. wink
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 25 May 2021 16: 28
            +1
            Yes, it is understandable - after the Valkyries, flying behind the car along the coastal Tel Aviv road, I have it too))
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 25 May 2021 16: 29
              +2
              It was a beautiful sight, for sure, the Arabs did not complain? laughing
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 25 May 2021 17: 42
                0
                Arabs were in shanti laughing
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 25 May 2021 17: 46
                  +2
                  That is, they were reeling like in a ten-point storm and their tongue refused to obey? laughing
                  1. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 25 May 2021 17: 51
                    0
                    No, just sat on the grass wink ))
                  2. Catfish
                    Catfish 25 May 2021 18: 18
                    +1
                    I've never been fond of this ... drek. negative
                  3. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 25 May 2021 18: 19
                    0
                    I agree, it sucks, not mine
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 25 May 2021 18: 40
          +1
          Eco was poking you! Valkyries ...
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 25 May 2021 18: 41
            -1
            Not only ... it's raining in the club, it's dry outside))
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 25 May 2021 18: 53
              +2
              Uh-huh. And snakes crawl around the club and turn into girls and feel your face with a forked tongue. One felt, the second ... And then the snake queen creeps up and says: "Toha, are you all right?" ...
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 25 May 2021 20: 02
                0
                It was worse. I pointed out this fact to the guards of the establishment. They persuaded me not to get wet in the rain. ))
  • Ua3qhp
    Ua3qhp 25 May 2021 11: 14
    +1
    Quote: glory1974
    Although already now it can be stated that before the sea level was much lower than it is now. Where the water came from is not clear, what preceded the flooding, it is not clear whether the water level can go down or rise, there is also no information.

    Maybe the glacier is melting? T.N. Ripean mountains.
  • ee2100
    ee2100 25 May 2021 11: 45
    +6
    The author raised an interesting topic of the influence of nature, and of man, on the human population and how history reflects this.
    Landscape changes occur either instantly (volcanic activity, tsunami, falling celestial bodies, etc.) or slowly (sea level rise, tectonic activity, etc.)
    Historians do not take into account in their research the work of geophysicists, climatologists, etc., which is reflected in the conclusions they draw.
    "The region of the Baltic Sea is one of the most mobile regions on Earth. As the Russian geologist YA Meshcheryakov wrote," The Baltic shield rose in 12000-15000 years, just as the Caucasus rose in 750 years. " call glacioisostasis.
    There are many works by geophysicists that indicate how the soil fluctuated in a given region.
    Some parts of the land rose, while others, on the contrary, fell, and this process is ongoing.
    In Latvia there is the city of Grobina, which is located more than 10 km from the sea. Previously, this was a Varangian Viking settlement called Seeborg (sea fortress). The sea level was such that it was a port. In a little more than 800 years, the level of the Baltic Sea has dropped 5-7 meters, some indicate large numbers.
    As a result, the swamps dried up and the land becomes suitable for agriculture and, accordingly, migration intensifies. And in the XII century, Europe decides that this region is ripe for colonization.
    It is necessary to understand what processes took place in the places mentioned by the author (Japan, China, Israel, etc.)
    Geophysics is an interesting but very complex science. bully
    "Leading specialist of the Center for Spatial and Regional Development of the Riga Technical University, Lyudmila Kartunova, is confident that the Rail Baltica section, which will pass through Riga, will go under water in 60-80 years, together with most of the capital, due to inevitable tectonic faults."
    www.ves.lv/riga-i-yurmala-ujdut-pod-vodu
    Go know what will happen tomorrow. hi
  • Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 25 May 2021 11: 47
    +5
    And every nation has its own legends about the "Atlantis". True, it sounds differently, the Indians of Central America have a legend about the death of the country of the Seven Hills in one night, which plunged into the depths of the sea, the legends of the Polynesian peoples. English and Welsh legends can also be attributed to this. What can I say, the tale of the city of Kitizha
  • Cure72
    Cure72 25 May 2021 12: 48
    +3
    Valery thank you for another interesting material !!!
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 25 May 2021 13: 59
    +5
    Hello. This is Katya. With friends at 18 m we were at Rybinsk. We swam near the monastery, it was shallow there, about a meter was.
    Friends said: from time to time it gets so shallow that the buildings can be seen. At dawn, when it grows shallow, it becomes eerie. I really wanted to see it myself, but then it was not possible
  • vladcub
    vladcub 25 May 2021 14: 30
    +2
    "An expedition led by N. Fleming at the bottom between the coast of Laconism and a small island discovered" James Bond, he tracked down the "Spectrum" there.
    PS. I like the 60-70 series, but since the 80s Golimut
  • Pushkowed
    Pushkowed 25 May 2021 15: 20
    +5
    Berdsk (Novosibirsk region) lost part of their territories ...
    Eck, hooked. Himself a native of Berdsk. In the spring (when the water level in the Novosibirsk reservoir is minimal), part of the old Berdsk is drained. And harsh diggers with metal detectors go to work ...



    The reservoir was filled in 1957.
    1. Pushkowed
      Pushkowed 25 May 2021 15: 30
      +3
      Villa Epecuen (Spanish: Villa Epecuén) is a town in Argentina. Founded in 1920. And in 1985, it was flooded by the waters of Lake Epekuen, on which a dam burst. But by 2009, due to a gradual decrease in water levels, the city began to drain.

    2. Pushkowed
      Pushkowed 25 May 2021 15: 37
      +3
      Sevtopol (Sevtopolis) is a city of the Bronze Age in Thrace (now it is the territory of Bulgaria). It existed in the 4th-3rd centuries BC. Discovered in 1948 while conducting surveys for the construction of the Koprin reservoir. Archaeological excavations were carried out for several years, after which the reservoir was filled and the city was flooded. Now an original project is proposed to restore it: to build a dam (420 meters in diameter and 20 meters high) around, pump out water from the inside, continue archaeological work, carry out a partial reconstruction of the city, make it a tourist attraction.

      1. Astra wild2
        Astra wild2 25 May 2021 18: 02
        +3
        "to carry out a partial reconstruction of the city," why partial? If you fantasize, then in full. Dam: "with a diameter of 420 meters and a height of 20 m," - you get a solid amount and payback, it won't be soon
    3. Moskovit
      Moskovit 25 May 2021 22: 26
      0
      But what can you find in old Berdsk)). Greetings from Iskitim)
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 25 May 2021 17: 50
    +2
    Valery, the girls and I said that it would be interesting to read about pirate treasures. This is a logical continuation of your stories about pirates.
    Many have read about: the ship: "Black Prince", but were there, in the past, cases to raise treasures from galleons?
    We love romantic stories
  • Maks1995
    Maks1995 25 May 2021 21: 55
    +2
    Photo "Megalith of Yonaguni" and photo "Pyramid of Rock Lake" - one and the same object.

    According to the classical definition, it does not belong to megaliths.
  • Moskovit
    Moskovit 25 May 2021 22: 38
    0
    About Santorini and Atlantis. Archaeologists say that the settlements excavated under the ashes are practically ... empty! Everything was taken out, and very carefully. That is, the move from the dangerous island took almost many months. Because only in films everything explodes quickly. In reality, volcanic processes took a very long time. Small and large earthquakes, release of hydrogen sulphide in the sea and, as a result, massive fish kill. The locals were not stupid, so they gathered their feet in hand and moved to neighboring islands.
    The palace cities in Crete were located at a considerable distance from the coast. Knossos is 4 km away. Therefore, maybe small villages were washed away, but the rest did not touch.
    1. deddem
      deddem 27 May 2021 18: 01
      0
      Akrotiri is well excavated if at 4%.
      And this is a well-to-do area, whose residents could leave before the rest.
      Therefore, Greek archaeologists prefer to say - "the dead have not been found yet."
      Otherwise, it will turn out like with Herculaneum, which was also considered exemplary evacuated before the excavation of the port sheds and the nightmares there.
      1. Moskovit
        Moskovit 27 May 2021 18: 06
        0
        Again, who knows that the remaining 96%). But it is hard to believe that a catastrophe of this magnitude happened like a nuclear bomb strike on Hiroshima. Let the rich, but they managed to take out their junk.
  • ycuce234-san
    ycuce234-san 26 May 2021 15: 33
    0
    So, in the area of ​​modern Sukhumi, according to ancient sources, the sunken ancient city of Dioscuria was once located, the remains of which have not yet been found.


    Old stone sunken cities can most likely be searched for by the remaining traces of stone mining and stone quarries. The city needed a lot of stone and the quarries should have survived.
    Well, as a hobby, this activity is quite suitable, since it does not require special and expensive equipment, except, perhaps, personal transport for trips to promising landscapes and perseverance - to view radar and satellite images of the Earth and archives.