Alexander Mladenov about the Ka-52 “Alligator” helicopter

69

Famous foreign aviation columnist Alexander Mladenov devoted a large article to the Ka-52 attack helicopter. As usual, A.2 was not too lazy to translate an interesting and informative text.

In December, the leadership of the Russian Army Aviation 2010 announced the long-awaited commissioning of the Ka-52 Alligator military helicopter, and the first shipments to the combat unit took place in May 2011.

In August, 2003, the then Air Force Commander V. Mikhailov, publicly confirmed the Air Force’s readiness to raise funds for the development of a new-generation combat helicopter. Not one, but two combat helicopters were to be sent in to replace heavily loaded and worn Mi-24 helicopters. Informed observers at first decided that this statement was another public relations campaign of the Russian military or, at best, a sincere expression of the secret dream of the general. But today, nine years after this event, the dream came true and army aviation, which is part of the Russian Air Force, receives three types of combat helicopters: Ka-52, Mi-28Н and Mi-35М.

The Ka-52 co-axial twin-wing helicopter (NATO code: “Hokum-B”) is the most advanced of the whole trio. Initially it was planned to purchase a limited number of these helicopters for the Russian air forces, which were supposed to support special operations forces, but in the end, the number of Ka-52s in army aviation would exceed that of Mi-28Н.

Ka-52 can use controlled and unmanaged heavy systems. weapons, equipped with a modern (at least according to the current Russian standards of military electronics) round-the-clock surveillance system and data exchange system. This two-seat helicopter is positioned as particularly effective in irregular military operations (counter-guerrilla warfare - and much more adapted for this than its predecessor, the single-seat Ka-50, as well as the obsolete Mi-24), and also very effective in fighting tanks and direct support to the troops.

The initial batch of 12 Ka-52 for army aviation was ordered in 2009, and in December 2010 the first four helicopters were received by the customer and transferred to the 344-th Center for Combat Use and Combat Training in Torzhok. These helicopters were used for the training of instructors who will train the pilots of combat units. Another task of the Center is to develop new tactics for the Alligator. The remaining eight helicopters from this party were transferred to 2011 in the first military squadron, re-armed to a new type and assigned to the 575-th air base in Chernigov in the Far East. By October, the 2011 Squadron numbered 12 helicopters. New helicopters from the lot in the 36 helicopters are in production, four of them were produced in 2011. The last helicopters from this lot are scheduled to be handed over to the customer by the end of 2013.

It was reported that at the end of 2011, the state joint tests of the Ka-52 had ended and that the helicopter had fully advanced avionics, which included a millimeter radar "Arbalet-52", a round-the-clock gyro-stabilized optical-electronic system GOES-451 and a fully operational onboard defense complex "Vitebsk". Although none of these modern systems were installed on the first batch of helicopters transmitted at the end of 2010 - the beginning of 2011, there are plans to install them on these helicopters.

Preceded by Ka-52

The Ka-50 helicopter (NATO code “Hokum”) made its first flight in 1982, and at the beginning of the 1990's. He was chosen as a new attack helicopter for the Russian Air Force, which was designed to supplement and then replace the Mi-24. Ka-50 was put into service in 1995, in the same year, the first helicopter entered service in the TsPPiPLS in Torzhok. Soon the financing was over, as a result, probably only four Ka-1990 were produced in 50.

Four more helicopters were delivered in 2008 and 2009. Two Ka-50s were used in Chechnya from December 2000 to March 2001. The main reason for which the helicopters were sent there was that the Kamov Design Bureau and the Air Force wanted to evaluate the coaxial design of the new combat helicopter in real combat conditions. Helicopters made 14 combat missions in Chechnya, during which they made more than one hundred missions, using 929 80-mm NURS and 16 30-mm projectiles, as well as three Vortex-1 ATGMs. All munitions fired hit their targets.

Development

The development of the double version of the basic single Ka-50 began in 1994 under the supervision of the General Designer of the Design Bureau Kamov S.V. Mikheev. He is known as the father of the Ka-50 and is the longest-serving chief designer in the modern Russian aviation industry, leading the Kamov design bureau for more than 40 years.

The prototype Ka-52 with the serial number "061" made the first flight of 25 on June 1997, under the control of chief pilot Kamov A. Smirnov. The helicopter was intensively used for various tests, and also participated in promotions. Therefore, the composition of sensors and avionics could change several times a year. In 2003, he completed state flight tests to confirm the declared flight characteristics. In 2006, the Russian Ministry of Defense allocated funds for the development of various helicopter systems, as well as the creation of a production line at Progress in the town of Arsenyev.

The second prototype Ka-52 (“062”), built on “Progress”, first flew in June 2008, and the third prototype (“063”), which became the first pre-production helicopter, made its first flight in October of the same year. . It was followed by three more copies (No. 051-053), and all helicopters took part in the final stage of the state joint tests of the helicopter, which were conducted by the Russian Air Force with the participation of the Kamov design bureau and successfully completed 20 on November 2011. full-scale production of a helicopter equipped with a radar, a data exchange system and two types of ATGM.

The coaxial propeller scheme, which Kamov KB specializes in, allows the helicopter to have smaller dimensions and weight compared to the usual helicopters. When comparing helicopters with coaxial and conventional schemes of identical mass and identical engine power, it can be seen that the dimensions of the coaxial helicopter on the 35 — 40% is smaller. The absence of the tail rotor means the absence of tail rudder drives and the corresponding transmission, which are pulled beyond the firing of the main rotor. This is an important factor for flight safety and combat survivability.

E.A. Petrosyan, deputy chief designer of the Kamov design bureau, explained: “When comparing the safety level of coaxial and classic helicopters, there are numerous factors to consider, such as reliability, durability, resistance to fatigue phenomena and combat survivability. The importance of the “human factor” in ensuring flight safety should be noted. In this regard, the coaxial Ka-52 scheme has advantages due to its simplicity of control, better maneuverability, as well as higher aerodynamic characteristics compared to the helicopters of the classical scheme. Moreover, the loss of the keel or rudder, for example, due to a hard landing in the autorotation mode, will not greatly affect the safety of flights. ”

When designing the Ka-52, the original task was to achieve maximum unification with the Ka-50. As a result, its level reached 85%, and the first batches of serial Ka-52 were built using the Ka-50 reserve for the fuselage and components.

Crew Protection and Pilot Placement Side by Side

The Ka-52 is the only helicopter gunship in the world that uses side-by-side crew accommodation. This was done as a result of the generalization of the practice of test pilots of the Torzhkovsky TsTSPP & PLS, who have a huge attack and experience in combat use of the Mi-8 ("side by side") and Mi-24 ("tandem layout"). The acknowledged chief pilot of the Kamov Design Bureau and former military test pilot A.S. Papay, who has more than 7700 hours of flying, supports the opinion of his predecessors: “I can confirm that when pilots are placed side by side, the interaction is faster, more convenient and easier than the tandem scheme. In most cases, they understand each other without words at all, using only gestures - this is the so-called “feeling of the elbow”. ” His opinion is also shared by veterans of the Federal Security Service who have combat experience, who performed extremely successful night sorties on a modified Mi-8MH helicopter armed with missiles and capable of being deployed around the clock during a counterterrorist operation in Chechnya. They appreciated the location of the pilots "side by side" due to better control of the situation and a much more efficient exchange of information during intense sorties when searching and destroying well-disguised targets with guided weapons.

The cockpit Ka-52 differs from Ka-50. The curved side cockpit glazing of the Ka-52 cockpit withstands hitting of 12,7-mm caliber bullets, additional protection is provided by overlapping side armor plates. Additional protection is provided by placing pilots side by side, thus they close each other from the fragments of shells and missiles flying from the side. This brutal principle is the brainchild of general designer S. Mikheev. This approach increases the likelihood that at least one member of the crew will survive the explosion of enemy ammunition on the side of the helicopter. With the traditional location of the pilots, the risk for them is much higher.

According to Mikheev, the nose of the helicopter is protected from shells of caliber up to 20 mm, and he claims that the mass of armor in the Ka-52 set is less than on the tandem scheme that has the same protection helicopter. Additional protection covers the most vulnerable parts of the helicopter: for example, the propeller blades withstand hitting 20-mm projectiles. Other security measures include the tried and tested ejection seats of the K-37-800 pilots (also installed on the Ka-50 single-seat), which ensure that both pilots leave the helicopter at the same time. With a forced landing, the crew’s chances of survival are enhanced by a combination of a hard energy-absorbing chassis and impact resistant seats.

Improved sighting system

The Ka-52 is equipped with an integrated on-board electronic equipment complex with an open architecture "Argument-52" (also known as BREO-52), which is based on the GOST R 52070-2004 interface (equivalent to the Mil-Std-1553B standard). The pilots have at their disposal five color LCD displays on the dashboard, plus one smaller monitor between the legs in place of the left pilot. There is also an indicator on the background of the ILS-31 windshield for the left pilot, which is used for piloting the helicopter and aiming the weapon along the course. The system of helmet-mounted target designation for targeting onboard weapons is at the development stage, but until now, the Russian electronics industry has not been able to create similar systems comparable to Western counterparts.

Gyrostabilized opto-electronic system GOES-451 manufactured by UOMZ is installed in the helicopter's nose and equipped with a TV camera (with a wide and narrow field of view), a thermal imager, a laser range finder, a target indicator, a laser irradiation sensor and an ATGM guidance system. In the final version, the Ka-52, to the left of the GOES-451, is equipped with a smaller “ball” of the TOES-520 system, which has a TV camera and a thermal imager used for night flights. The cockpit lighting allows the use of night-vision goggles; the Ka-52 pilots are provided with 3 generation GEO-ONV-1-01K night vision glasses, developed by Geophysics-NV.

X-band X-band crossbow radar (wavelength - 52 mm) was developed by Phazotron-NIIR and is used for flying at night and in bad weather conditions, it detects obstacles and allows flying at ultra-low heights and in the mapping of the terrain and detecting goals. The radar has the ability to indicate moving targets and can be used at minimum altitudes from 8 to 10 meters.

According to Mikheev, “the integration of the radar went surprisingly smoothly thanks to the considerable experience with the radar, which our company has accumulated during the development of the Ka-25 and Ka-27 naval helicopters. We abandoned the idea of ​​placing a radar in a nadtruchny fairing, since installing a radar in the nose gives a certain gain in the mass of the helicopter. For example, there are no restrictions on the size of the antenna array and the weight and size characteristics of radar instrumentation equipment. In addition, vibrations are much less felt here. ”

The flight tests of the Arbalet-52 radar on the first Ka-52 prototype in 2004 confirmed the design characteristics. Although the radar does not have the ability to automatically recognize the target, this mode may be added in the future. According to the pilots, the display mode of moving targets also functioned well.

Guided weapons

According to Mikheev, a much more extensive arsenal can be used compared to the Ka-50 on the Ka-52. To do this, the helicopter has four main suspension points, and when it is necessary to suspend the twin Strelets launchers with the Eagle-E air-to-air missiles, they are mounted on an additional pair of suspension points next to the wing tips.

Air-to-ground systems include the available and tested 9М120-1 Attack and Whirlwind-1 ATGM. "Attack" is applied from a package consisting of six containers. Initially, the guidance system was radio command, but then it was replaced by a laser one, for which the GOES-451 is used. The Ka-52 will mainly use the 9М120Ф modification, equipped with a high-explosive / thermobaric warhead for engaging manpower in open spaces and in shelters having a range of 6 km.

ATGM 9А4172 "Vortex-1" has a firing range of up to 10 km, and is the main weapon for hitting armored targets. The rocket is used from the APU-6 outboard for six missiles (the helicopter can carry up to two APU-6), it is equipped with a tandem warhead capable of penetrating up to a meter of armor behind the active defense system. The ATGM is equipped with shock and non-contact fuses, depending on the type of target, the pilot can choose the type of fuse. When using the proximity fuse, the Whirlwind can be used as an effective weapon in the air-to-air class, capable of hitting targets moving at speeds up to 800 km / h.

Another ATGM system that can be installed on the Ka-52 is the Hermes-A two-stage long-range missile, the test launch of which with the Ka-52 took place for the first time in 2003 g. This is a very large system - the transport and packaging container is 3,5 long. meters and weighs 107 kg. The system can be applied according to the principle “shot, watched, corrected” and “shot-forgotten”. It is equipped with a tandem high-explosive warhead. In addition to bronzelei, ATGM can be used to defeat fortified shelters, ships and aircraft. Up to four air-to-air missiles 52М9 Igla-V, equipped with an IR GOS and used in two-rocket launchers, can be suspended on the Ka-39.

Uncontrollable, but amazingly accurate weapon

The unguided weapon in the Ka-52 arsenal is represented by 80-mm and 122-mm NURS, which are launched from 20 and 5 rocket blocks. According to Papay, the 80-mm NURS C-8 proved to be a very precise weapon when used with the Ka-50 / 52 due to the combination of a stable platform and a high-precision sighting system. According to him, “when launching with the Ka-52, the inexpensive NURS C-8 can no longer be considered a weapon that is used by area, now it is already a high-precision weapon.” Usually NURS C-8 is applied from a distance of 1,5 km.

The helicopter can also use bombs weighing 250 kg and 500 kg, the container KMGU-2, and the suspended gun container UPK-23-250. In addition, the 30-mm 2А42 cannon is mounted on a helicopter with a limited-mobility cannon mount NPPU-80 (460 rounds of ammunition). The complex is equipped with a hydraulic drive that allows you to deflect the gun to 3,5 ° up and 37 ° down. The horizontal targeting is carried out by turning the entire helicopter, but its turning speed is comparable to the turning speed of the gun installation of the Mi-28H helicopter. MOT-80 is considered to be a very accurate weapon in both mobile and fixed modes. According to Popeye, “in the course of routine training, we achieve accuracy at the level of 1.2-1.4 angular mil, that is, at a distance of 1000 meters, shells hit the target with the size 1,5м X 1,5 m”.

The 2А42 gun was chosen due to its reliability, especially in dusty conditions and dirt, as well as due to the ability to use ammunition from ground forces. Its rate of fire is 900 shots per minute in speed mode and 200-300 shots in slow, there is also a mode of firing single projectiles. Due to the high velocity of the projectile (980 m / s) and its relatively large mass, which leads to a large kinetic effect, 2А42 is one of the most powerful guns in the world installed on helicopters, if not the most powerful. At a distance of 1500 meters, an armor-piercing projectile has armor penetration in 15 mm at a meeting angle of 60 °. The maximum effective firing range is 4000 meters.

The future of the Alligator looks promising

In 2011, the Ministry of Defense decided to purchase additional Ka-52 numbers by signing a contract for 140 helicopters, the latter of which should be delivered to 2020. Progress’s maximum production capacity is 24 helicopters per year (in 2011, 12 helicopters were launched , in 2012 and 2013, the release should increase to 15 units. As of September, 2011 Progress has released the 17 Ka-52 (including two prototypes and three pre-production helicopters), and 12 also appears to have been at various stages of assembly.

The Ka-52 is also regarded as a new attack helicopter for use with the Mistral UDC. The first prototype of the Ka-52 was tested on the deck of the French UDC Mistral during his visit to St. Petersburg in December 2009. The maritime version of the Ka-52K helicopter will be equipped with folding blades and wings, enhanced landing gear, crew life support at sea and anti-corrosion fuselage and equipment. A new radar of the centimeter range of sight and target designation of the X-35 RCC will also be installed on it in the nose. In August, 2011 was announced by Fazotoron-NIIR Corporation to develop a new radar with PAR for Ka-52K based on the Zhuk-AE radar. Testing of the first prototype is scheduled to begin in 2012.

The aviation wing of each of the four UDC "Mistral" will consist of eight combat and eight assault assault helicopters. The Russian Navy will need at least 40 new combat helicopters, and, according to Mikheev, the first serial Ka-52K is planned to be delivered to the troops at the end of 2014 - the beginning of 2015, which should coincide with the date of transfer of the first UDC "Mistral".

He also believes that the Ka-52 has good export prospects, adding that new equipment and Western-style avionics can be installed on it. The launch of the Ka-52 in Russian army aviation will significantly improve the chances of signing export contracts, and the Russian media reported on the existing interest in the helicopter from many countries.
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  1. Fox
    +3
    31 August 2012 07: 37
    good cars ... sorry not enough.
    1. +5
      31 August 2012 07: 40
      Greetings, colleague!

      The future of the Alligator looks promising

      And further in the text .... Let's hope that a good car will not be intended only for arming our partners. but also strengthen our army.
      1. +3
        31 August 2012 07: 56
        Yes, our helicopters are the most helicopter in the world! Seriously speaking, this is exactly what one MI-8 helicopter costs, a working bird for 40-50 years already if my memory serves me right. And by the way, here such helicopters as KA-52 do not need to be sold over a hill, such machines should only be with us!
      2. Igorboss16
        +2
        31 August 2012 10: 57
        but it turns out that the first to sit on such a car are foreigners and not most of our pilots what I really wanted
    2. +2
      31 August 2012 08: 36
      Quote: Fox
      good cars ... sorry not enough.


      The special purpose does not imply a large series / Ka-52 "Alligator" will be used exclusively in special operations, at least so the Ministry of Defense said, now here is the Mistral (and this is correct, since thanks to the developed bow end, it can carry a large-sized sighting and navigation system, including a powerful radar). tomorrow the range of tasks may expand a machine with potential
    3. 0
      31 August 2012 13: 42
      look at the KA-52K

      on the Mistral
  2. grizzlir
    +1
    31 August 2012 07: 40
    There has been a debate for a long time whose cars are better than Kamov or Milev. It’s hard to judge that the best of the best can be determined only by military use. Personally, according to the declared performance characteristics, I prefer Kamov cars, but this is my personal opinion. There was information that they plan to use the Ka-52 as a control machine as part of the Ka-50 and Ka-52 link.
  3. +4
    31 August 2012 07: 46
    12-15 helicopters per year is very, very small. At least one more plant is needed for their production and with a much larger volume of output. Otherwise, we will stretch all this for a decade and the last machines will go already to replace the first.
    1. +3
      31 August 2012 08: 23
      Quote: Alexander Romanov
      12-15 helicopters per year is very, very small.

      Hello Sasha! Not that word, not enough, minuscule .... alas.
      1. +4
        31 August 2012 08: 45
        Quote: Tersky
        Not that word, not enough, minuscule .... alas

        Hi Victor, given the cost of one helicopter, Russia has enough money to buy 500 cars, but it all comes down to power and lack of personnel. A generation of managers, lawyers and economists makes itself felt.
        1. +6
          31 August 2012 08: 58
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          A generation of managers, lawyers and economists makes itself felt.

          That's it, the country of office plankton ...
          1. +1
            31 August 2012 09: 15
            Quote: Tersky
            This is it, the country of office plankton.

            The most interesting thing is that most of these certified "specialists" work as waiters and I don’t know who yet, others are on the tracks.
            1. empty
              +1
              31 August 2012 09: 23
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              others are on the tracks.

              "Different aunts are needed, different aunts are important ..." (c) In the Moscow region on Shchelkovka, what's going on, they almost rush under the cars, they want to make money laughing It is strange, but if they cost so much, then they are in demand, there are no conditions, but someone agrees to such a "dubious pleasure" winked
              1. +1
                31 August 2012 09: 27
                Quote: empty
                Strange, but if they cost so much, then it’s in demand,

                If there is such competition, then it’s time to introduce the d-code. Only with higher education and an intelligent family, they completely disbanded. Where is it seen that any person with a low social responsibility bar could become. You need to raise the status of a "profession" laughing
                1. +2
                  31 August 2012 09: 50
                  Hello to all. You, as always, started about helicopters and ended up with women. Constancy is a sign of class. laughing
                  1. empty
                    0
                    31 August 2012 09: 52
                    Quote: Steam Train
                    You, as always, started about helicopters and ended up with women. Constancy class sign

                    A good helicopter and will go for a ride. We sit nearby, hold on to the handles and all that, and if any paparazzi wants to "take a picture" then get a rocket in the belly of a "vrazhin" laughing
                  2. 0
                    31 August 2012 09: 58
                    Quote: Steam Train
                    . You, as always, started about helicopters and ended up with women.

                    Hi Zhenya, well, let’s put the problems of motherhood and childhood very relevant and the moral component, instead of building helicopters they are on the tracks winked
              2. Vasily79
                0
                31 August 2012 09: 59
                Quote: empty
                In the Moscow region, on Schelkovka, what’s going on, they almost throw themselves under cars,


                oh well everyone in the forest is sticking out lol
  4. itr
    +1
    31 August 2012 07: 52
    24 helicopter per month is very young
    1. +1
      31 August 2012 07: 55
      Quote: itr

      24 helicopter per month is very young

      You carefully read the article, it is written there not in a month, but in a year.
      1. empty
        0
        31 August 2012 09: 25
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        You carefully read the article, it is written there not in a month, but in a year.

        We read even more carefully:
        The maximum production capacity of Progress is 24 helicopter per year (in 2011 was released 12 helicoptersIn 2012 and 2013 release should grow to 15 units)
        1. +1
          31 August 2012 09: 30
          Quote: empty
          The maximum production capacity of Progress is 24 helicopters per year (2011 helicopters were produced in 12, production should increase to 2012 units in 2013 and 15)

          Yes, not Aleksey, there are other turntables producing + exporting somewhere, something.
  5. 0
    31 August 2012 08: 13
    in one phrase, a beautiful and formidable bird
  6. Nasty
    0
    31 August 2012 08: 15
    Hermes will take the helicopter to a new level.
    Interestingly, the Americans will fly apache for another forty years?
    If the Ka52 goes for export, they will probably have to reanimate Comanche or whatever they have ...
    1. +1
      31 August 2012 08: 42
      Comanche will not work - Comanche was created as a reconnaissance and target designation helicopter - to replace Kayova. But with elements of stealth (low visibility). and then the Germans just realized that UAVs are both cheaper and more practical. Now they have a new program - high-speed turntables with pushing screws - most likely money is swelling in this topic.
      1. 0
        31 August 2012 12: 49
        and then the Germans just realized that UAVs are both cheaper and more practical
        No, they are crazy of price and inefficiency and the inability to create an inconspicuous helicopter.
      2. 0
        18 December 2013 20: 09
        But we also have a big start on this subject - the Mi-28 was initially seriously developed as a twin-rotor helicopter with a cross-section and with a pushing propeller. Only the new helicopter attack aircraft concept stopped work at a high stage of readiness. I think that it’s quite possible to get these old developments, modernize - and in a large series
    2. 0
      31 August 2012 08: 47
      Quote: Nadyt
      If Ka52 goes for export,

      If it goes for export, not amers, but we will fly on 24 or something else.
    3. +1
      31 August 2012 08: 59
      Quote: Nadyt
      Hermes will take the helicopter to a new level. Interestingly, the Americans will fly apache for another forty years? If the Ka52 goes for export, they will probably have to reanimate Comanche or whatever they have ...
      - just on the last branch of the Longbow for the Indian tender, "they argued with Rustam and Pupyrchaty on the topic“ Russian helicopter vs Apache Longbow. ”With this article, I closed the topic for myself, and I hope Pupyrchaty and Rustam will finally agree with me that Who's out of hu? -Kamov or Apache? - That hu is an Apache. If you don't agree, let them carefully read once again the flock, which is not Piarstatya, but an article of a serious foreign observer.
      Yes, the Alligator also has weak points. Here and "A helmet-mounted target designation system for guidance on-board weapons is under development, but until now the Russian electronic industry has not been able to create similar systems comparable to Western counterparts", and lower sensitivity and resolution of the CCD matrix, and so on. I agree that this is an annoying lag behind the Apache. But if we take the totality of combat characteristics - and correctly consider the combat properties of military equipment in aggregate - then the Alligator is not inferior to Longbow. guns - on the last branch, in the one given by Rustam, the Apache shot Afghan spirits, there the distance is clearly less than 1000 meters (it is difficult to estimate, but there are three or four hundred meters), and the deviation from the target in other cases reached as much as fifteen meters - watch the video. the rate of fire of the cannon and good dispersion over the area, which leads to a frenzied expenditure of shells, which is a very significant drawback against a serious enemy.

      If it is possible on the Alligator to bring to mind the radar with a helmet-mounted indicator, to modify and improve the thermal imagers, to bring the radar to mind, "so that it would be possible to modify the Hermes (and this is all in the next one and a half or two years)," the Alligator will not be equal in the short term. Only the next generation of helicopters is already an unmanned type.
      1. +2
        31 August 2012 10: 26
        but I disagree;). With the "aggregate" K 52 has problems that simply cannot be solved. On the TVD, the helicopter should have grass below the water, the pilots have the expression "cut tree crowns with blades"
        Further, the K 52 itself is a very high helicopter, it is as high as an apache with a radar (or even a little higher).
        That is, in order to find a goal, he needs to fully open himself.
        And this is if you do not fight the death of the Papuans like.
        and a helicopter from above the radar hub just needs to raise it above the terrain and you can already give target designation to the enemy and therefore you can fire under cover of relief from helfaire or something like that. And then finish with nuras and a gun.
        so I personally like Mi more, he has room for development.
        1. 0
          31 August 2012 13: 49
          For reconnaissance, a helicopter (any) is too noticeable, vulnerable and expensive as a loss. Here the century of small, nimble and cheap drones has come.
        2. 0
          18 December 2013 20: 14
          But this is an openly cowardly approach. Therefore, Western neocolonialists are developing in this direction, which is terrifying to horror to expose a wildly expensive and ultra-fragile helicopter under the fire of savages from AKs, but our vehicles do not have such difficulties, their armor protects them even from small-caliber shells. this is not every tank withstand, keep in mind
      2. +2
        31 August 2012 13: 44
        Respected. Potentially, the Ka-52 is a good car. But, until recently, there were very serious complaints about her dampness from the pilots.

        At the moment, the car is good, but whether it falls to the same third version of Apache - or even to the second - is unlikely. If only because the matrices of thermal imagers, for example, are not manufactured in Russia, but what quality the Russian matrices will be - Gd knows. Many questions on avionics arise, on the nomenclature of weapons. You write - bring to mind. Exactly. Brought to mind - then you can talk about something. In the meantime ...
        1. PLO
          +2
          31 August 2012 14: 00
          because the matrix of thermal imagers, for example, is not produced in Russia

          have long been produced and UOMZ and VOMZ
          True thermal imaging cameras are made using French technology Catherine-fs


          Brought to mind - then you can talk about something. In the meantime ...

          you probably tell the first when they bring?
          if you do not know a specific list of complaints, how can you generally assess the state of "communication"?
          1. 0
            31 August 2012 15: 30
            Yes, in fact, part of the questions regularly pops up.

            For example, about Crossbow

            Could you inquire about the presence of the "Crossbow" radar in the nose cone (V-Z mode), whether they are present or not. And their characteristics and plans for the installation of the Arbalet radar (V-V mode) over the column of propellers (are there any at all or PR of the Kamov Design Bureau).
            This radar on cars in Torzhok is not. There are plans for installing it, but when - it is not known, since it is in the process of fine-tuning. Above the column of screws may not be at all.

            Regarding the eternal dispute whether one person can effectively operate a car, pilots who have extensive experience in flying the Shark (this is how the pilots themselves informally call this car), they say: “The automatic control system (ACS) on the Ka-50 is very good and convenient, which does not create problems in piloting. Because of this "fifty" is better in aerobatic characteristics than the Ka-52, whose ACS is still damp. " It was unanimously noted that the ACS and the Ka-50 and Ka-52 are significantly better than those on the Mi-28N.

            Well, and the fact that he only gets up on the stream. There are a lot of things if you dig
            1. PLO
              +1
              31 August 2012 15: 44
              This radar on cars in Torzhok is not. There are plans for installing it, but when - it is not known, since it is in the process of fine-tuning. Above the column of screws may not be at all.

              on the first cars put in torzhok really they were not
              however, serial helicopters have been equipped with it for a long time, you can find out from the blog Mokrushin (or bmpd ?, I don’t remember exactly), also vaf recently confirmed this topic
              read carefully the thread of the first post

              http://topwar.ru/17937-istrebitel-pyatogo-pokoleniya-skoro-ispytayut-na-sverhman
              evrennost.html # comment-id-533364

              plans for the installation of the radar "Crossbow" (mode V-B) over the column of propellers

              little is known about the supra-muzzle radar, and it hasn’t been officially reported anywhere that the ka-52 troops will also go with it, only the main radar may work on this issue, or maybe they’ve scored, there is no reliable information

              and in general, if my memory serves me right, you quote posts from the Mokrushin blog annual prescription

              it has already risen to the flow for a long time, then that the flow is not fast is another question
              1. PLO
                0
                31 August 2012 16: 15
                about Crossbow

                I also read somewhere recently that the ka-52 may even receive a stripped-down version of the Zhuk radar from the mig-29 instead of the Crossbow
                1. -1
                  31 August 2012 19: 35
                  Quote: olp
                  I read somewhere somewhere recently that the ka-52 might even get a stripped-down version of the Zhuk radar from the mig-29 instead of the Crossbow
                  - "Beetle" is planned on the ship version of "Alligator".
                  Bumpy, the fact that a matrix manufactured under a foreign license is installed on the Alligator does not in any way lower the level of the helicopter itself. On the last passenger Boeing, the dreamliner also has a lot of non-American things, and sometimes there are parts that amers do not know how to produce, but that Boeing does not cease to be a Boeing, an American plane. The fact that the matrix has a lower resolution is a tiny minus, "Alligator" will perform its tasks the same way. For example, the task that the Apache performed according to mochilov 20 spirits in the mountains (in the video given by Rustam), "Alligator" will perform in the same way. I have to admit that because of the matrix, the Alligator pilot may mistake that woman with a child for a fighter with a bazooka, well, he will not be able to make out a couple of those last spirits that hid in the crevices. There are such risks, I admit. But this will not harm the task being performed - the spirits will be destroyed in the same way. Only once a ... twelve cheaper. Firstly, due to the high accuracy of taking into account the Alligator's position in space, due to ultra-high-quality gyroscopes (and the same Hollywood filmmakers recognize only Russian gyroscopes for orientation and stabilization of their cinema cameras during the filming of action games) at the cannon's combat range (a couple of kilometers) cheap NARs are absolutely equivalent, if not more accurate than Hellfires, and cheaper by tens, if not hundreds of times. Plus a more accurate (again, due to the high accuracy of accounting for orientation in space, the gun does not go beyond a circle around the target with a radius of one and a half meters from 1 kilometer) and a powerful 2A42 cannon. Plus the air chips needed in battle - sliding sideways, even backwards. You are asking a question about the range of weapons - the vortex has already been tested in Chechnya, two vortexes were fired off, both missiles hit the target accurately. The distance of the vortex is up to 10 km. And it can work on air targets. Hellfire cannot. In the event of a collision, the Apache will only have to fight back with a cannon, which, moreover, is completely inaccurate - watch the same video again - it aims at a person, the first shell falls almost twenty meters from the target. With such a gun, there is zero chance of hitting the Alligator with its mobility.
                  Over-the-shoulder radar is not a panacea. In addition, it seriously reduces the speed of the helicopter and at times reduces the flight range.
                  Not, in general, not convinced pimply. Still, the KA-52 is preferable.
  7. +2
    31 August 2012 08: 23
    In 2011, the Ministry of Defense decided to purchase an additional Ka-52 by signing a contract for 140 helicopters,

    I am glad that there are people in the ministry who are able to think and are purchasing the CORRECT equipment. good
  8. +3
    31 August 2012 08: 31
    The car is apparently good, but the electronics are lagging behind. Do they catch up? I would like to.
    1. +2
      31 August 2012 08: 43
      there would be bones - and the meat will grow (the main thing is that there is a successful glider, you can always change the optics and put in a new avionics system)!
    2. +1
      31 August 2012 09: 41
      And with backward electronics, our helicopters are competitive and surpass all foreign similar machines, and electronics is just a matter of time. Yes
      1. 0
        31 August 2012 13: 45
        That's right, because the more time, the older it is.
  9. +2
    31 August 2012 08: 53
    our army really needs new equipment --- including this one. Glory to Russia!!!
  10. +1
    31 August 2012 09: 14
    A sight for sore eyes ...
    Lucky who works for them. And romance, and pride, and job satisfaction.
  11. 0
    31 August 2012 09: 18
    Handsome !!! This helicopter is really a flying tank! Enemies will reduce their ardor if there are many such good cars in our army!
    1. PatriotizTAT
      +1
      31 August 2012 09: 31
      Well, does it lie ... in 20g Putin will say that everything is fine with us ... and combat flying vehicles will be an order of magnitude smaller than planned ... I have no doubt about this!
  12. +1
    31 August 2012 09: 20
    we know how to do what and in the construction of aviation and space technology we are strong only there are "parasites" inserting sticks into the wheels
  13. FID
    +2
    31 August 2012 09: 38
    The article says that the first helicopters arrived at the pulp and paper mill and PLC in Torzhok. There, in theory, they should prepare combatant pilots. This summer, Serdyukov ordered the transfer of this unit to Migalovo, where the current WTO unit is located. Migalovo airfield is heavily used by transporters (in any case, this is reported). Question: how will future helicopter pilots be prepared? Why do we need to translate the existing center? The official version is that the military department has no money to repair the airfield in Torzhok.
    1. PLO
      0
      31 August 2012 14: 32
      from the blog Mokrushin about the July trip to Torzhok

      Further, according to the "hike" plan, there was an open-air helicopter museum. It hasn't changed since last year, photos can be viewed here.
      Then demonstrated the simulator of the Mi-8 MTV-5 helicopter. It also has not changed at all, it works, but the Mi-28N simulator brought in last year was never installed, it was taken to Voronezh.
      While we were walking, I aired the question of relocating the Center to Migalovo, which I once wrote about in my blog. The answer was: "There were rumors at the beginning of the year, but since then there has been no confirmation of this."

      Sad news for fans of the Ka-50: one of the officers said that there are no serviceable machines at the moment (like the last "Shark" flew a couple of months ago) and they might not be repaired anyway, because there were flights on them anyway optional, now everyone on the Mi-35, Mi-28N and Ka-52 is training.

      The good news: there are a lot of people flying on new cars. We will go to them.
      Mi-28N in the parking lot. Most Center cars have already been repainted in a new gray color.


      http://twower.livejournal.com/845821.html
  14. +1
    31 August 2012 10: 10
    The article is interesting, I read it in one breath, I'm going for a second run!
    1. +1
      31 August 2012 12: 12
      The main thing with "calls" is not to overdo it. And then no matter what happened. for instance fellow Or wassat
      1. 0
        31 August 2012 19: 09
        Not, okay, the first time I usually read at 6 speed, a general idea is created, if I like it, I go to the third one, I already think the first one, if I really liked the first time, I think about everything. I think this is normal, as it should be, at the third speed something stays in memory, at the sixth I read and forgot.
  15. 0
    31 August 2012 10: 18
    The main thing was to not fly on paper, but in metal and not stand on the field, but fly.
  16. Gemar
    +2
    31 August 2012 10: 42
    I will be right now DREAM wink :
    It is necessary for the "Kamovtsy" to come up with an unmanned striking apparatus (all the more, the newest machines were recently supplied to the plant). Let it even unify it to the maximum with the K-50. Remove the crew's life support systems, install a powerful electronic warfare system, and, at the expense of the saved weight, install a powerful and repeatedly duplicated source of communication with the manned K-52. And already from a manned K-52 to control / maintain communication with unmanned 2-4 strike vehicles. The range will not be very limited compared to the K-52. On the contrary, the crew of a manned helicopter can "let go" of the drones by 15-20 km, without entering the zone of possible shelling from MANPADS / short-range air defense systems. After all, with the loss of a helicopter, the country loses first of all highly qualified pilots, whose training takes much more time and money than building a drone. Eh ... dreams ...
    GLORY TO RUSSIA!
    1. +1
      31 August 2012 12: 54
      In a more complete real topic. At such a rate of computerization, the board will soon have nothing special to come up with and will not have to! good
  17. 0
    31 August 2012 11: 58
    Additional protection .... this is cool, we thought of using the current pilot to use the second pilot as additional protection ....., well, tady and tank crews must additionally introduce a couple of extra crew members weighing at least one no less than a centner weighing ...., but otherwise well done, for a long time it was necessary to put into operation a purely attack helicopter.
    1. +1
      31 August 2012 19: 41
      Quote: Bosk
      Additional protection .... this is cool, we thought of using the current pilot to use the second pilot as additional protection ....., well, tady and tank crews must additionally introduce a couple of extra crew members weighing at least one no less than a centner weighing ...., but otherwise well done, for a long time it was necessary to put into operation a purely attack helicopter.
      - there is little, a little cynicism of Mikheev also distorted me. But you need to understand - the war itself, the hostilities themselves - is cynicism in a concentrated form, therefore, no matter how unpleasant it is, Mikheev must be recognized as right. In a wolf pack howl at a wolf.
      1. 0
        31 August 2012 22: 05
        For additional protection, the author seems to blurt out to me without thinking, because if a fragment breaks through the armor it will not fit in a closed armor capsule, even a couple more if you shove it inside it will turn out mincemeat ..., in fact, the pilots were seated nearby not for additional live protection, it’s just more convenient for pilots to work in tandem, this trend is not observed in helicopter pilots, but in aviation, for example, in the new shock Sou-shki, the cavities also sit nearby.
  18. Senzey
    +1
    31 August 2012 12: 48
    Great news, great helicopter. Not only as a deck, which of course is very important, but also indispensable in the mountains. Glory to Russian weapons!
  19. +1
    31 August 2012 12: 51
    I'll throw a fly in the ointment.
    Until they bring the sub-muzzle radar Apache will be the best in the world. Will bring Hermes and our radar will be much better
    1. 0
      31 August 2012 13: 46
      Compared to longbow or troika? wink
  20. bask
    0
    31 August 2012 13: 13
    The K 52 is a great helicopter. The most important thing is that it can fight in bad weather and at night. As our soldiers did not have enough of them in Chechnya and Ossetia. How many fellows would have to live. entry into the army. And we need to think of them on ...... theirs are Apaches And the guns on it are 6 barrel as in the Navy ,, Volcano 23mm5 thousand rounds per min. Then gu !!!
  21. Darck
    0
    31 August 2012 13: 23
    6 barrel as in the Navy ,, Volcano 23mm5 thousand rounds per min.

    What is the problem? You can buy a minigun and put it to support the infantry, but no one does this.
    Hermes will be brought

    Why is hermes better than a hellfire?
    1. -1
      31 August 2012 19: 45
      Quote: Darck
      Why is hermes better than a hellfire?
      - a multi-purpose missile, and can work on air targets. Record range and flight speed. And the largest and most powerful warhead for fishing with tiny 7 kg of Hellfire. Wunderwafer hoo. They will finalize it when the radar for the helicopter is finally ready, a little remains. There will be no equal to the Alligator
      1. Windbreak
        0
        31 August 2012 22: 00
        And what prevents Hellfire from working on air targets? And what a record in a range of 20 km? And the Americans will have a new JAGM missile with a range of 16 km when used from helicopters
      2. Darck
        -1
        31 August 2012 22: 38
        - a multi-purpose missile, and can work on air targets.
        For low-flying low-speed targets (I don’t know if this feature is in the aviation modification).
        And the largest and most powerful warhead in the field with tiny 7 kg of Hellfire
        At Hermes OFBCH at Hellfire, it is a tandem cumulative 8-9kg (and multi-purpose).
        Record range and flight speed.
        Up to 15 (in different sources they write 10-12) km and 8-12 km at Hellfire, (depending on the height of the trajectory). Due to the terrain and the threat of air defense, I don’t know if such a range is needed. Because if you fly at an altitude of 30 meters, then at 15 km you are unlikely to see something like at 12, but again it depends on the terrain. The flight speed is from 500 to 1000 m / s, in different sections of the flight, HF 425 / ms, HF the ability to capture and the interception of the target after the launch of the rocket, generally there’s a dofig of launch modes, I don’t even know if everyone uses it. They write that the KA52 can carry 8 Hermes missiles, Apache has 16HF.
        There will be no equal to the Alligator

        Equal in what? And why?
        Okay so ... in 1982 made its first flight

        The first flight of the prototype took place in 97, the beginning of production in 2008.
  22. 0
    31 August 2012 13: 23
    About KA-58, whoever, what knows, or is this a myth ?!

  23. 8 company
    -2
    31 August 2012 13: 25
    Okay so ... in 1982 made the first flight, now what year? 30 years goes into service ...
  24. 0
    31 August 2012 22: 45
    using up 929 80-mm NURS and 16 30-mm shells

    have 929 missiles and 16 bullets been used up? Did I understand correctly? Some little bullets ...
    1. PLO
      +2
      31 August 2012 23: 17
      -----------------------------------------
  25. 16
    16
    0
    1 September 2012 01: 02
    the car is excellent !!!!! but for some reason the Mi-28 was adopted as the main shock, instead of the Mi-24-crocodile !!!!!!!!
    1. RUS-36
      0
      1 September 2012 01: 11
      Hi Chukan .... Tambov or Chuchkovo? In what years?
    2. 0
      1 September 2012 02: 56
      The 28th is cheaper and easier to manufacture ,,,, as always, we save on nuts, and people can’t take care of it .... sad tendency.
  26. 0
    25 November 2014 15: 17
    not a helicopter, but a beautiful proud bird!

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