Military Review

New Star of Patriot: Armed Forces Museum Prepares to Move

73

Central Museum of the Russian Armed Forces. Source: wikipedia.org


Golden mean


Almost all information about the possible relocation of expositions of the Central Museum of the Armed Forces is based on materials obtained by the Russian service of the BBC. At the disposal of the editors was the presentation of the future museum complex, as well as anonymous testimonies of the museum staff. In favor of the source is evidenced by the excavation work carried out recently in Kubinka near Moscow at the proposed construction site.


Central Museum of the Russian Armed Forces. Source: ru.moscovery.com

Park "Patriot" from the very beginning was designed for large-scale construction. And the annual forum "Army" did not occupy the most important place in it. Sergei Shoigu six years ago spoke about the concentration in the park of all the major military museums in the country. One of the first to relocate to the new hangars was equipment from the tank museum in Kubinka.




Above, the German "Ferdinand" in the tank museum in Kubinka, below it is in the Patriot park. Photo by the author

Indeed, it was a very good idea. The equipment was finally taken out of the gloomy hangars of the military unit. Honestly, for all the uniqueness of the exposition in Kubinka, the exhibits were sometimes arranged very tightly and did not allow to fully observe the technical features. And if visitors were lucky enough to get to the museum in the autumn-spring-winter period, then the terrible cold did not allow them to get acquainted with the exhibits in detail. However, this was not a hindrance to real enthusiasts and connoisseurs of armored relics.

Now in "Patriot" cars are in warm, well-lit hangars with appropriate entourage and sound effects. At the moment, the Patriot Park has accepted only a part of the collection. Monsters such as the Mouse and the Dora cannon seem to forever remain in their original place. It is worth remembering that not only have moved to the Patriot Park tank a museum - it seems that all the images of Soviet military equipment are concentrated in it.

This approach also has a not very positive side - now one day is definitely not enough to get to know the collection. If earlier in Kubinka tanks could be easily inspected in one daylight, now the most extensive collection of "Patriot" requires two, or even three days. Considering the remoteness of the complex from Moscow, this is not very convenient, especially for guests of the capital.




Japanese tank type 94 TK with a chemical trailer. Park "Patriot". Photo by the author

In 2021, Shoigu's plans to move the largest military museums to Patriot have not yet been implemented.

In the Moscow region, in particular, exhibits of the Artillery Museum from St. Petersburg were supposed to appear. On the one hand, this is even true - some of the most unique cannons from pre-Petrine times are simply laid out in the open air. To be honest, they have no effect on visitors. In the "Patriot", I think, the guns will find a more worthy place. On the other hand, the Artillery Museum in St. Petersburg is the oldest museum of its kind in Russia and its complete transfer to the Moscow region would be a real blasphemy to historical memory. Probably, the initiators will find a middle ground without depriving either St. Petersburg or Kubinka.

"Blue Star of the Patriot"


The transfer of museum assets under the "single roof" of the Patriot complex is more beneficial than negative. Visitors will have the opportunity, albeit not in one day, but to get acquainted with a wide range of exhibits - armored vehicles, artillery, rifle weapons and other historical artifacts.

And the new museum complex in the form of a huge blue five-pointed star with exhibits of the Central Museum of the Armed Forces (CMVS) will become an organic part of the Patriot Park. However, the Russian service of the BBC sees in the transfer of even some of the exhibits from Moscow to Kubinka only negative. Basically, this is based on the opinion of unnamed employees of the CMVS, dissatisfied with the transformation of the classic museum into something like Disneyland. Indeed, in the frames of the presentation, which ended up in the hands of the BBC, the future large-scale building impresses with its futurism. The museum will be created in a single ensemble with the main temple of the Armed Forces and will be supplemented by the domed building of the Pantheon. Its main purpose is to store "a single database of all outstanding historical personalities that have remained in the memory of generations, and thanks to which the history and modernity of our country have been formed." The pantheon with the museum building will be connected by a park, consisting in a plan of laurel branches.

New Star of Patriot: Armed Forces Museum Prepares to Move




Stills from a video presentation on the Nikolay Domnin Youtube channel.

The building of the museum, into which it is planned to transfer part of the CMVS exposition, is a star with one raised beam. According to the Air Force presentation, four more will be located around the main building - the expositions of the Ground Forces, the Navy, the Aerospace Forces and the Strategic Missile Forces.

A more accurate idea of ​​the architecture of the future museum complex could be given by video presentations from YouTube (Nikolay Domnin channel), but they were mysteriously removed. According to the BBC, the disappearance of video presentations is associated with the release of the material "War Disneyland". Will the Armed Forces Museum be moved to Patriot Park? at bbc.com. The personality of Nikolay Domnin adds even more conspiracy. As the BBC assures, this is a specialist in the field of computer graphics and, quite obviously, he also created the presentation of the future Patriot museums. And after the show to the high ranks he posted it on the network. But this, we repeat, is only the version of Pavel Aksenov, the author of bbc.com.

The material of the Russian service of the Air Force cites the opinion of Andrey Karpov, a volunteer restorer of military equipment at the Central Military District. He believes that the appearance of the museum in the Patriot Park may be timed to coincide with the 80th anniversary of the Victory. Quite likely the opening date, given the grandeur of the architectural complex.

Well-founded fears


The transfer of museum relics to new sites is always associated with certain risks. First of all, it is the safety of the exhibits. In addition to armored vehicles, which are distinguished by their relative strength, there are many unique aircraft in the CMVS. For obvious reasons, the transportation of such artifacts is fraught with serious difficulties. And even in the case of tanks, there are concerns. Employees of the Armed Forces Museum believe that some of the equipment may be on display in the open air. For example, as part of the reconstruction of one of the battles of the Great Patriotic War. It is unnecessary to talk about how destructive this will be for the unique KV-2 or T-38. For example, in the installation "Victory Field" located in front of the temple of the Armed Forces, during the reconstruction, the exhibits were even set on fire. Volunteers claim that some of the equipment is already falling apart.






Stills from a video presentation on the Nikolay Domnin YouTube channel.

There is one more important aspect related to the preservation of the exhibits.

According to Yulia Kantor, Doctor of Historical Sciences, Chief Researcher of the St. Petersburg Institute of History of the Russian Academy of Sciences, 400 exhibits were lost when the exhibits were moved from the CMVS to the Memory Road Museum in the Patriot Park! The total cost of the lost is close to 12 million rubles. A year ago, due to the emergency nature of the opening of the “Memory Road” branch of the Central Military District, security and proper conditions for the transfer of more than 5 thousand exhibits were not organized. Julia Kantor says that as a result, they lost German awards, uniforms, award weapons of the USSR and other historical values. Most likely, they were simply stolen by unscrupulous builders. How quickly will it be possible (and is it possible at all) for law enforcement agencies to return what they have lost, time will tell. Who can guarantee the safety of the CMVS exhibits when moving to a complex under construction? Apparently, much more valuables will be transported to the museum than to the Memory Road.

The emergence of new museums is always a good thing. The new site in the Patriot Park will allow not only to expand the audience, but also to get from the storerooms exhibits that were simply impossible to demonstrate in the head building of the Central Military District.

But in a new business, it is extremely important not to go too far with the notorious immersiveness, the desire to immerse visitors in the atmosphere of war, and not slip into vulgar interactive. No wonder many people call the future complex "War Disneyland". Still, turning the memory of the war into an exciting attraction or a colorful show is the last thing that veterans would like.
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  1. bk316
    bk316 19 May 2021 15: 16
    +5
    No wonder many people call the future complex "War Disneyland".

    If the new generation does not read books and does not even watch movies, then there is simply no other way.
    The main thing here is really not to arrange star wars.
    So far, the vast majority of people have positive reviews about the Patriot.
    My neighbors have boys there 3 times and still ask.
    So I'm thinking of taking my youngest there, so what a girl ...
    1. carstorm 11
      carstorm 11 19 May 2021 15: 23
      +3
      Believe me, she will like it) I have driven the older one twice already. Of course, she was not exactly what the boys were attracted to, but there was also darkness of enthusiasm. Apparently the atmosphere is like that. There are a lot of children.
      1. credo
        credo 19 May 2021 15: 49
        +26
        Personally, I am against moving military exhibits from St. Petersburg and other cities of Russia to Moscow.
        I don't see any point in this and I don't believe in good intentions.
        I want to wish only one thing to the Moscow bosses, so that they do not create a monster from Moscow in everything that they do not get, but think that apart from Moscow there are hundreds and thousands of cities in Russia that want to show their history in their cities, and not in Moscow.
        1. Artyom Karagodin
          Artyom Karagodin 19 May 2021 15: 58
          +11
          We can only agree with this. And then, as it were, the joke about "Is there life beyond the Moscow Ring Road" finally ceased to be a joke.
        2. bk316
          bk316 20 May 2021 11: 49
          -5
          Personally, I am against moving military exhibits from St. Petersburg and other cities of Russia to Moscow.

          Why do you jump off on this topic? It's about moving part of the museum of Moscow to the region.
          1. credo
            credo 20 May 2021 11: 55
            +3
            This phrase is from the article, under the photo of Japanese tanks, and not written by me.
            Read carefully.

            Quote: bk316
            In the Moscow region, in particular, exhibits of the Artillery Museum from St. Petersburg were supposed to appear. On the one hand, this is even true - some of the most unique cannons from pre-Petrine times are simply laid out in the open air.
      2. Gardamir
        Gardamir 19 May 2021 16: 27
        +4
        I drove the eldest two times already
        From Khabarovsk?
        1. carstorm 11
          carstorm 11 19 May 2021 18: 16
          +1
          Firstly, my eldest lives with her mother in Moscow) I have a second marriage in which there are two more daughters) secondly, my work with the head office in the capital and I go there sooooo often) is there anything else from my personal life that interests?)))
        2. Revival
          Revival 23 May 2021 13: 47
          0
          Uhu .. uhu ... to the point ..
    2. RealPilot
      RealPilot 19 May 2021 15: 57
      +20
      Not a bad idea.
      But ...

      And this is where the questions begin. I personally really like the Patriot Park (I have been there several times at the Army forum, at work). And developing it is just wonderful.
      Well, here carry Central Museum of the Armed Forces whole - it's a dubious matter. If we are talking about its storage facilities, then I support, but about the main exposition - no!

      The museum is needed where it is now. In Moscow. Here it takes its rightful place, people go to it. The museum will get lost in the abundance of Patriot exhibits, and those wishing to walk around the city and visit this wonderful collection of exhibits will lose this opportunity ... And many children and adults will not get there. It's not always convenient to go out of town, it's like with Monino - you want to, but it's always a whole event ...

      Isn't such a "move" an attempt to grab expensive real estate? Build a shopping center or a residential complex in its place? I won't be surprised ... Hands off the main collection of the museum.
      1. Tavrik
        Tavrik 20 May 2021 22: 51
        +2
        I personally really like the Patriot Park (I have been there several times at the Army forum, at work). And developing it is just wonderful.

        I go there once a year. An hour by train and 20 minutes by bus. Is it necessary? It is necessary to launch something like Aeroexpress there.
    3. ANB
      ANB 19 May 2021 16: 04
      +1
      ... So I'm thinking of taking my youngest there, so what a girl ...

      Mine (5 years old) was at the tank biathlon last year. We walked through exhibitions, shot from a machine gun. I tried Vietnamese cuisine. :)
      There were enough impressions for the whole year.
    4. Old tanker
      Old tanker 19 May 2021 17: 39
      +14
      And here I am, not living in Moscow in Kubinka, then only the tank museum, could get only once, and then, while studying at the academy. I've been to the CMVS many times. And from childhood. Yes, and took my son there. Conveniently. Traveling in Moscow, there is time to go to museums. But there is no way to go to Kubinka.
      Expensive real estate in the center of Moscow is clearly displacing pride in our army, the symbol of which is the CMVS.
      And the author of this laudatory panagirik obviously did not sprinkle it for nothing.
      So soon the star of the Soviet Army theater will be transferred to Pariot Park and painted pink.
    5. ccsr
      ccsr 19 May 2021 20: 02
      +9
      Quote: bk316
      So far, the vast majority of people have positive reviews about the Patriot.
      My neighbors have boys there 3 times and still ask

      The point is not in the Patriot Park itself, but in the fact that a huge number of people simply do not have the opportunity to physically visit this museum, due to their fleeting stay in the capital. Moreover, all Moscow schools have always provided excursions to the Museum of the Soviet Army, and this is one of the most visited museums in the capital.
      I think that the transfer of the exposition from this museum is simply a crime against our descendants - it cannot be called otherwise.
      By the way, I had a chance to visit the Museum of the Battle of Borodino, located on the Borodino field. I will only note that despite the fact that it was an organized excursion by bus, it took a lot of time, including standing in traffic jams, and this is an expensive event - this must also be taken into account. Although this place is no less symbolic place for Russia than the Patriot Park, no one is going to transfer the panorama of the Battle of Borodino from Moscow there. Maybe it is worth thinking about the consequences for those who want to grab a piece of land for the Museum of the Soviet Army?
      1. bk316
        bk316 20 May 2021 11: 45
        -3
        The point is not in the Patriot Park itself, but in the fact that a huge number of people simply do not have the opportunity to physically visit this museum, due to their fleeting stay in the capital.

        So we need to organize something like an Aeroexpress. And the TsmVS simply cannot even place half of its exposition.
        1. ccsr
          ccsr 20 May 2021 12: 28
          +4
          Quote: bk316
          And the TsmVS simply cannot even place half of its exposition.

          This museum is already self-sufficient - I once drove my son myself, and the second time I was with him, when his class conducted an organized excursion. Believe me, half a day is not enough to even get a glimpse of the entire exposition. As for the storage rooms, I think that something from there can be transferred to the Patriot, but the museum itself must not be touched in any case. By the way, don't you find the name TsMVS inappropriate, if this museum was originally called the Central Museum of the Soviet Army of the USSR Armed Forces? We have that such a country did not exist and such an army? In a word, bungling has become so firmly entrenched in our life at all levels that you are no longer surprised at anything, but only for our historical memory it becomes insulting, it disappears under the pressure of propaganda.
          1. bk316
            bk316 20 May 2021 12: 41
            0
            As for the storage rooms, I think that something from there can be transferred to the Patriot, but the museum itself must not be touched in any case.

            So it seems that they are going to do it ...
            By the way, don't you find the name TsMVS inappropriate, if this museum was originally called the Central Museum of the Soviet Army of the USSR Armed Forces?

            It just depends on the exposure. The museum of the Soviet Army could have been left as it is.
            And make a new one - a museum of the Russian Armed Forces. Otherwise, one might think that before the revolution, Russia and the army did not have.
            1. ccsr
              ccsr 20 May 2021 12: 57
              +1
              Quote: bk316
              So it seems that they are going to do it ...

              But I am afraid that they have views to the courtyard where the equipment is located - it is a painfully tidbit in the center of the capital.
              Quote: bk316
              The museum of the Soviet Army could have been left as it is.
              And make a new one - a museum of the Russian Armed Forces. Otherwise, one might think that before the revolution, Russia and the army did not have.

              With this I completely agree - I have nothing against the museum of the Russian Army, but not at the expense of the museum of the Soviet Army. This museum should remain unchanged, and that would make sense.
      2. Tavrik
        Tavrik 20 May 2021 22: 53
        0
        but no one is going to transfer the panorama of the Battle of Borodino from Moscow there.

        But thanks for the idea! There is still something for investors to work on ...
  2. alekc75
    alekc75 19 May 2021 15: 16
    +10
    why should all the capital be seized ??? other museums rubbish? looting of museums is in full swing. all people should only go to the capital? is that all for the convenience of people?
    1. carstorm 11
      carstorm 11 19 May 2021 15: 26
      -19%
      Looting ?! Are you juggling too much? For me, making a huge complex is like more pluses than minuses.
      1. alekc75
        alekc75 19 May 2021 15: 29
        +9
        they want to shove all the equipment into one place! museums always do something in one direction. and now grab everything because Shoigu decided so!
        1. carstorm 11
          carstorm 11 19 May 2021 16: 14
          -17%
          In which at most a hundred people go a year? The realities are such that standard museums no longer attract so much attention. Yes, and in my childhood only excursions were taken there. It would never occur to a schoolboy to go there himself. But when there is a huge complex. Modern, interactive starts quite differently. Desire appears. You can't live by past standards. Do you want the young to join? With desire? Themselves there asked, give them what attracts them. I do not propose to arrange discos and other shalsans there. I'm talking about the fact that they are different. And you need to work for the target audience. Those. for the younger generation.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Old tanker
            Old tanker 19 May 2021 17: 48
            +7
            And will young people trample to get acquainted with military equipment, spending hours in traffic jams or on electric trains? Unlikely. Still, the museum in the Samots capital is more accessible. And there are always a lot of people in its halls. No less than in the Museum of Cosmonautics.
            1. carstorm 11
              carstorm 11 19 May 2021 18: 13
              -1
              Twice already drove my daughter) her classmates went, shared their impressions. She wanted
            2. bk316
              bk316 20 May 2021 11: 48
              0
              Will young people trample on to get acquainted with military equipment, spending hours in traffic jams or on electric trains?

              So after all, life shows something completely different, just in the Patriot and the rod, but in the center not very ...
      2. credo
        credo 19 May 2021 16: 59
        +7
        Quote: carstorm 11
        Looting ?! Are you juggling too much? For me, making a huge complex is like more pluses than minuses.

        Your advantages remind me of the story of how, in the USSR, passenger trains from north to south had to go through Moscow, with a transfer at railway stations.
        The same was true for flights abroad from the regions.
        Neither Muscovites nor nonresidents, except for those who profited from it, did not feel joy from this "good".

        From today's optimization: Moscow is planning to put on "reconstruction" the home stadium of FC Lokomotiv "Russian Railways Arena", with Loko matches at the Luzhniki arena. But fans suspect that the developers of housing and shopping centers have laid eyes on the "Russian Railways Arena", despite the fact that this issue has already been raised earlier.

        Optimization rushes straight from all the cracks and you can see the thesis of D.A. Medvedev on the need to create 10-15 agglomerations on the territory of Russia, having concentrated the majority of the country's population there, thus being implemented.

        Moscow needs to be downsized, and not to make it a "point of attraction" for the entire population of the country, exposing the outskirts, borders, cities and villages.
        1. antivirus
          antivirus 19 May 2021 17: 39
          0
          another question - in an article by BBC or VeVeS? also fateful .............................
      3. Tavrik
        Tavrik 20 May 2021 22: 54
        0
        List the pluses, and then I will list the minuses for you.
    2. bk316
      bk316 20 May 2021 11: 47
      0
      why should all the capital be seized ???

      What are you talking about about the exhibits of the Central Museum of the Armed Forces, and he is already in Moscow ...
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 20 May 2021 14: 04
        +3
        Quote: bk316
        What are you talking about about the exhibits of the Central Museum of the Armed Forces, and he is already in Moscow ...

        It's about Shoigu's plans to skim the cream off all museums for the sake of Patriot.
        In 2021, Shoigu's plans to move the largest military museums to Patriot have not yet been implemented.

        In the Moscow region, in particular, exhibits of the Artillery Museum from St. Petersburg were supposed to appear. On the one hand, this is even true - some of the most unique cannons from pre-Petrine times are simply laid out in the open air. To be honest, they have no effect on visitors. In the "Patriot", I think, the guns will find a more worthy place. On the other hand, the Artillery Museum in St. Petersburg is the oldest museum of its kind in Russia, and its complete transfer to the Moscow region will be a real blasphemy to historical memory. Probably, the initiators will find a middle ground without depriving either St. Petersburg or Kubinka.


        In St. Petersburg, there is an experience of moving the Naval Museum - within the city, in fact, from one bank of the Neva to the other. Result: lost or damaged unique exhibits (in particular, the I-16 Safonov was dropped and the nose decoration of the Vityaz clipper by Klodt was broken), a criminal case, 9 years for the director of the museum and 6 years for the director of the company responsible for the move.
        1. bk316
          bk316 20 May 2021 14: 15
          -1
          In St. Petersburg, there is an experience of moving the Naval Museum - within the city, in fact, from one bank of the Neva to the other. Result: lost or damaged unique exhibits

          And in St. Petersburg there is an experience of transporting exhibits from the Louvre to the Hermitage ...
          They didn't lose or break anything.

          And in general, an article about moving exhibits from the storerooms of the central museum of the Armed Forces, and not about St. Petersburg.
          Even in the passage that you quoted you do not notice the manipulation?
          There are plans to transport part of the exhibits AND NOT THE MUSEUM. But for some reason it reads like the closure of a museum.
          Well, for negligence it is necessary to plant. Here from Moscow to St. Petersburg 2 reactors in the collection were brought - they earned nothing ... And then from one coast to the other - the plane was dropped.
        2. Was mammoth
          Was mammoth 23 May 2021 14: 45
          0
          Quote: Alexey RA
          There is experience in St. Petersburg ...

          Ryazan also has a sad experience.
          There was a military automobile school, then an institute. Now there is no. He had a museum of automotive technology, many of the exhibits are unique. Serdyukov was interested in the museum, even demanded a complete catalog. For "safety" it was ordered to transfer the vehicles to the 147th battalion of the Ministry of Defense. Now, unique vehicles, such as the ZIL, on which Yuri Gagarin was transported when they met, half of them, experimental developments, it seems about 60, are "lost".
          The FSB, however, is looking. So many years. Oh, there are no traces. But.
  3. JD1979
    JD1979 19 May 2021 15: 24
    +1
    Here even my words pop up, looking at 9, 12 pictures - "For the Emperor! For the Imperium of Humanity!"
  4. Pushkar
    Pushkar 19 May 2021 15: 30
    +10
    Sorry, but this place cannot be reached without personal transport. And more people will come, and personal transport will be blocked. In addition, the experience of Mr. Serdyukov shows that the relocation and reconciliation of major military institutions leads to their destruction. An example is the Zhugarin Academy.
    1. boni592807
      boni592807 19 May 2021 16: 03
      +2
      There should be a state program to ensure the ACCESSIBILITY of the park and the new museum, as transport, and financial various categories of Russian citizens.
      In the USSR, there were visits to museums, performances, even by grade (age and school curriculum), they showed film adaptations and documentaries for free subscriptions.
      The question about the park and the museum is the main one in accessibility, it is better to see once than hear a hundred times. And it is more useful for the brain, incl. YOUTH. ... R.S. incl. and on the "Golden Ring of Russia and the memorial" Rzhev "and others. Discounts are made to tourists, and then there is tourism and" enlightenment ", and then only on holidays ...
      1. Pushkar
        Pushkar 19 May 2021 16: 16
        +10
        The museum is a serious scientific institution, where research, accumulation and systematization of material evidence of history is carried out. Many exhibits are unique and priceless, for example, the trophy banners of the 3rd Reich. And the Patriot Park, roughly speaking, is a military-patriotic Disneyland, it's not for nothing that all the positive reviews - "the children liked it." There is no doubt that military-patriotic education is a necessary thing, but for the sake of this it is worthless to destroy the only Museum of the Armed Forces in the country.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. boni592807
        boni592807 22 May 2021 19: 22
        0
        22.05.2021/17.58/97.6, XNUMX, Radio - XNUMX, ФFrance, introduced sports pass for families with modest means, then, for all - tocultural subscriber who is 18 years old, download the application and there non account 300 eurosThat you can spend on cultural events - cinema, concerts, a museum, buy books (buy in person), you can play games, etc. - but all of the above is only French and French... So the French authorities are going to support everything ITS and introduce their youth to everything French. European correspondent Elena Balaeva. hi
  5. smaug78
    smaug78 19 May 2021 15: 32
    +16
    Yes, it's one thing for a Muscovite to drive to the museum to the Novoslobodskaya metro station, and another thing - to the Patriot Park.
    PS Someone seems to have laid eyes on the ground under the museum ...
    1. Pushkar
      Pushkar 19 May 2021 16: 22
      +6
      Quote: smaug78
      It's one thing for a Muscovite to drive to the museum to the Novoslobodskaya metro station

      And the non-Muscovite too. I visited the museum for the first time when I was passing through Moscow, it was several hours before the train.
  6. tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 19 May 2021 15: 35
    +11
    I'm sorry for the Navy Museum in St. Petersburg and the Artillery Museum. It is the same as moving the Hermitage to another place.
    1. balabol
      balabol 21 May 2021 00: 23
      0
      I hope to reassure you - no one is going to move the Military Historical Museum of Artillery, Engineering Troops and Signal Corps. If they act within the framework of the rules adopted in the museum community, they will be asked to provide something from the storerooms, duplicates for a while, without changing the belonging of the exhibits to the artillery museum.
      Around the Naval Museum. He was mentioned in the discussion in connection with the story of his move to another premises. The process of moving itself was organized, to put it mildly, with criticism (there are details in the comments), the concept of a new exposition is not approved by everyone. For me personally, who has been in the old museum dozens of times, this is a new stranger and not familiar.
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 21 May 2021 10: 39
        -1
        Quote: balabol
        For me personally, who has been in the old museum dozens of times, this is a new stranger and not familiar.

        For me too. Wherever you look, everywhere the ears of Serdyukov and Vasilyeva stick out.
  7. Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 19 May 2021 15: 47
    +1
    Not a Muscovite, for the sake of interest, as a future guest of the capital, does public transport go there? Or just by taxi?
    1. Akuzenka
      Akuzenka 19 May 2021 16: 02
      +3
      You can get by train to Kubinka, and from the station there are minibuses (and taxis) to the museum. And to the "old" museum, from the station, you can generally walk in 25-30 minutes, in a straight line!
    2. Pushkar
      Pushkar 19 May 2021 16: 24
      +1
      Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
      public transport goes there

      While on the checkpoints, train, bus.
  8. Sahalinets
    Sahalinets 19 May 2021 15: 52
    +11
    The truth is that the Museum of the Armed Forces in Moscow occupies a tidbit of land. And there is already planned another elite real estate ...
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 21 May 2021 10: 49
      0
      Quote: Sahalinets

      +11
      The truth is that the Museum of the Armed Forces in Moscow occupies a tidbit of land.

      Here is salt, tasty morsels, old mansions, all these are tasty morsels for the "elite" who got out of the rags and into riches, with an exorbitant appetite, they are not enough, they sell the country, history, people at retail and wholesale. And most of them are not Russian people who are indifferent to our history. They will set up "glass" on concrete legs, ugly, not adapted for human existence. In 20-30 years they will begin to "crawl", crack and fall apart. New ones will be built, the children of those who built these, for them the main thing is to "cut the loot" by filling their fat belly. There is no law or decree for them - everything is bought.
  9. akarfoxhound
    akarfoxhound 19 May 2021 16: 04
    +13
    In 2015, I was at the Kubinka airfield (reconnaissance of the air part of the parade) and saw in the local regimental TEC individual parts of the fuselages, planes, chassis, lanterns, fairings, etc., lying dumped from trucks (scows) in a heap. All this was crumpled, shattered, and did not even look like a concept disassembled from a distance. I met the head of the TECh, asked - where did the good come from? He said from the Savasley Museum of Air Defense Aviation. (PPI and PLC of Air Defense Aviation, the museum was awesome, all the modifications, all the equipment that flew in the air defense aviation, everything was in a chic, native form, in native paint, everything was whole, rarities were like in Monino Was not! And what? They ordered to disassemble. Everything that was not easy to understand - the arrived "patriots" sawed off and broke off through the knee! They brought the remains unsecured in the back to Kubinka, threw them into the TECH - collect them! The local men, who were not indifferent to what it was and how they could patch it with almost roofing iron, the Ministry of Defense allocated paint - which was from deshman, with which the floor was painted. They killed the materiel. Is that good? Now the disfigured, far from the original images "but everyone will see" ? Yes, why should I do something like that ???
    1. Konnick
      Konnick 19 May 2021 16: 37
      +6
      It's a shame for Savasleika, the Arzamas-16 cover airfield. Once there, the first TU-134 landed in an emergency during testing, which was later installed at VDNKh, but, in my opinion, it was also disposed of.
      Hands off, would-be reformers, from our Memory.
  10. akarfoxhound
    akarfoxhound 19 May 2021 16: 10
    +3
    By the way, when the Navy Museum moved from the Vasilievskaya Spit, all of a sudden the real rats of Peter's times disappeared. And not only. And for some reason, the Swedes in museums surfaced after a couple of years. And the organizer of this action is what an effective manager Tolya Serdyukov has nothing to do with, no, and Dimka Medvedev did not sell anything. Nearby, the Neva flows, they themselves sailed to Scandinavia, no one is to blame
  11. Gardamir
    Gardamir 19 May 2021 16: 28
    +8
    And that's right, we must destroy the entire legacy of the USSR. And then write plaintive articles about rewriting history.
  12. Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 19 May 2021 17: 30
    +5
    Specifically, I do not consider moving the CMVS a good idea - the museum is very organic and in its place - a certain ensemble of CDSA, CTRA, CMVS, the same Grekov, also appears there. In fact, it is proposed to rip out a part of this ensemble and translate, frankly, far away. And if in the same CMVS schoolchildren could be taken on an excursion that takes half of the school day, then the same Kubinka is already a whole day, the Patriot will generally be excessive for this format - and therefore all this will most likely fall out of what is now fashionable to call " patriotic education ".
    The external exposition of the TsMVS has long been one of the recognizable symbols of the area - the T-34 and R-9 are the same, not to mention the part of the exposition that is visible from the CDSA (and to which I had direct access in my childhood).
    Moving will naturally destroy the established staff of the museum, which is far from the last for the museum business.

    I hope all the same, this absurd idea will not be implemented. All these are reflections of Soviet megalomania, absolutely out of topic.
    1. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 19 May 2021 17: 49
      +3
      All these are reflections of Soviet megalomania, absolutely out of topic.

      This is precisely the destruction of all Soviet
    2. Old tanker
      Old tanker 19 May 2021 18: 00
      0
      Do not worry, the developers of their colleague Shoigu (a builder by education) will ask him quietly and transfer the entire ensemble to the Patriot. CDSA so generally "God himself ordered" to be near the main temple of the Armed Forces. And the theater will be "nice" there too. And in their place, Moscow-City-2 Bulet just looks great am
      1. Knell wardenheart
        Knell wardenheart 19 May 2021 18: 04
        +3
        Well, according to rumors, a furry paw of the Olympic developer is already raking under a part of the CDSA, so unfortunately, in this regard, "Russia is a country of opportunities" ...
  13. Old tanker
    Old tanker 19 May 2021 17: 35
    +7
    Here is the star (museum) we now have BLUE !!!
    Not red, but blue! What is not pink, then!
    Ugh! I have no words!
  14. Aviator_
    Aviator_ 19 May 2021 17: 48
    +3
    The cost of land in Moscow is higher than in the Moscow region, so the museum is being removed. There is a whole academy named after. Zhukovsky was sent to Voronezh, what a museum. Capitalism, however.
  15. Undecim
    Undecim 19 May 2021 18: 14
    +2
    Sergei Shoigu six years ago spoke about the concentration in the park of all the major military museums in the country.

    Right. There should be one museum per country with an area of ​​one-eighth of the land and stretching from east to west under 10 kilometers. In Moscow.
    It is the British who are engaged in nonsense, having on their island under a hundred military museums throughout the country.
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 19 May 2021 19: 14
      +3
      And here is the first minus from the victim of turbopatriotism.
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 20 May 2021 16: 12
      +1
      Quote: Undecim
      Right. There should be one museum per country with an area of ​​one-eighth of the land and stretching from east to west under 10 kilometers. In Moscow.

      In Moscow, it will be too bold - how can you take away land from developers?
      The museum should be near Moscow, somewhere cheaper. Better yet, somewhere in the wilderness, so that visitors do not distract the museum staff with themselves and their stupid questions, such as "where did such and such exhibits go?"
  16. Normal ok
    Normal ok 19 May 2021 21: 17
    +3
    An important issue is the safety of exhibits when moving and installing in a new place. The article states that when moving from the CMVS to Patriot, 400 exhibits worth 12 million were "lost". rub. And this is according to government estimates. And how much do collectors have "German awards, uniforms and Soviet award weapons"? Many times more!
    Yes, and mismanagement with such large-scale rearrangements is still the same. I saw how in the mid-80s the coastal gun "B-411-P" was brought to the memorial 180th coastal battery (Odessa) for installation. They brought an almost combat-ready weapon removed from storage. At least let's fireworks! Delivered naturally disassembled. Mechanisms in boxes. The trunk is preserved. At first, all this stuff was lying on the memorial for several years during the Soviet era. Then there were the 1s. In general, when the weapon was installed, all that was left of it was the barrel and the semi-tower (switchboard installation "MO-90-1). Not a single mechanism, not any opportunity for children to twist something (otherwise, children will not be interested), the panel installation is tightly concreted into the floor, the trunk is in the extreme recoil - a pitiful sight.
    1. balabol
      balabol 19 May 2021 22: 15
      +1
      This is a very correct question. The experience of transporting exhibits from the Naval Museum in St. Petersburg is indicative. The costs of moving not the largest museum collection amounted to about 1 billion rubles. The deadlines were disrupted, some of the exhibits were damaged. In 2013, the Accounts Chamber of the Russian Federation conducted an audit of the effectiveness of spending, and it turned out that about 80% of the amount allocated for the move: 758,8 million rubles out of 986 million rubles, was spent with violations. Two of them were jailed.
      Attention! For those who do not know Peter, the distance in a straight line between the Strelka VO and the Kryukov barracks is 1600 meters by car, 2200 meters.
      The opinions of experts and ordinary visitors about the need to move are very ambiguous.
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 20 May 2021 16: 03
        +1
        Quote: balabol
        The deadlines were disrupted, some of the exhibits were damaged.

        Uh-huh ... Safonov's "donkey" these krivoruks managed to drop so that they damaged the entire lower part of the fuselage (including the power pack), the engine, the landing gear and almost tore off the plane.
        Quote: balabol
        The Accounts Chamber of the Russian Federation checked the efficiency of spending, and it turned out that about 80% of the amount allocated for the move: 758,8 million rubles out of 986 million rubles, was spent with violations. Two of them were jailed.

        9 years for the director of the museum, 6 years for the director of the carrier company.
  17. balabol
    balabol 19 May 2021 22: 43
    +2
    Those who are interned with military equipment, weapons, history have many questions about such decisions. From my point of view, the concept of the development of museum work in this area is absent or is kept secret from everyone. Perhaps there should be large (central and regional) and small (regional) museums.
    Small museums are 1 - not deep, but wide (Let not unique exhibits, but from different areas. Our storerooms and warehouses will allow us to equip expositions with such samples. Let the Moscow Region try to do it), or 2 - on the contrary, is narrowly specialized, detailed and complete ( for example, taking into account the local defense industry, historical events or other links "on the ground").
    The next level is regional - "sectoral" for example St. Petersburg - maritime topics. Tula - small arms ... on your own.
    And after that in Moscow and Disneyland is possible.
    In fact, it is necessary to more actively use the collections of large museums in the expositions of the "younger" brothers. It is better to give exhibits for a while than keeping exhibits in storage. The Museum of Artillery of Engineers and Signal Corps transfers duplicates to other museums and this is a good practice.
  18. Runway
    Runway 20 May 2021 11: 44
    +1
    Trapped merchants ... By the 80th anniversary, we, as "glorious descendants", will bury all the dead soldiers and commanders of the Red Army / SA?
  19. Radikal
    Radikal 20 May 2021 15: 38
    0
    Quote: tihonmarine
    I'm sorry for the Navy Museum in St. Petersburg and the Artillery Museum. It is the same as moving the Hermitage to another place.

    We will wait for this at such a rate. hi
  20. Tavrik
    Tavrik 20 May 2021 22: 47
    +1
    Looked at a photo from the presentation. Something all alien, not your own. Gloomy aggressive. That and look, the Imperial March will sound and Emperor Palpatine with Darth Vader will come out from behind the column.
    Where are the red stars, red banners, hammers and sickles? Or "here - I remember, here - I don't remember."
    In short, it was said long ago that any initiatives should be considered from the point of view. movement of financial flows.
    The blue lighting of the tanks is not at all in the subject.
  21. moody
    moody 20 May 2021 23: 59
    0
    Who can guarantee the safety of the CMVS exhibits when moving to a complex under construction?


    And even without these transfers, I suppose everything is not so rosy in the existing museums. Enthusiasts clean and paint equipment at the CMVS site. Volunteers also work in Monino. A couple of years ago I was in St. Petersburg in the Artillery Museum: it’s scary to walk on the floor there in a number of halls, they are in such a state. And keeping valuable exhibits in the open air is probably not the best solution. I have nothing against the Patriot Park, but is it really impossible to ensure the safety of the exhibits of existing museums?
  22. Reserve buildbat
    Reserve buildbat 23 May 2021 16: 29
    0
    And what is the ratio of the area of ​​the CMVS and the area that will be allocated for these exhibits in the "patriot"? And then I still have good memories only of the CMVS and the museum complex on Poklonnaya Gora. And at the same time the question: Who knows what is now on Khodynka? And then the last time I was there, the exhibits were sawed with grinders for scrap metal, the lanterns of planes were broken with hammers, then I pulled out a piece of a MiG-17 lantern from a broken MiG-123, looked at how the pieces of a sawn Tu-XNUMX UAV were lying around (there are photos before cutting in the same place in my archive). And what is there now? "temple complex"? Housing complex? Shopping complex?
    1. Barbus
      Barbus 24 May 2021 09: 46
      0
      There is now an ice arena, a shopping center "Aviapark", a residential complex and a church (as without it).
      1. Reserve buildbat
        Reserve buildbat 24 May 2021 11: 21
        0
        So they ruined the first airfield in Russia. Historic site
  23. Potter
    Potter 24 May 2021 20: 56
    0
    The destruction of the museum of the armed forces, as well as the tank museum in Kubinka, is a crime. Whoever organizes this will have to be responsible for it.