The Polish Air Force offered aircraft to replace the Soviet Su-22M4

Poland remains one of the NATO countries with Soviet-made fighters. Despite the growing spending of the Polish government on armaments from year to year, the country's aircraft fleet is still difficult to call modern. Among other things, the Polish Air Force is armed with Su-22M4 fighter-bombers - modernized versions of the Su-22.

It became known that the Italian company Leonardo offers the Poles to modernize their aircraft fleet, abandoning the further operation of the Soviet Su-22M4 in favor of products manufactured by this company.

Representatives of the Italian company offered Poland to expand cooperation, namely, to purchase M-346FA combat aircraft from Leonardo. This is a combat version of the M-346 trainer aircraft, which had already been supplied to Poland by an Italian manufacturer.

The M-346FA has an AFAR radar, an onboard electronic warfare system, and is capable of carrying various types of weapons, including air-to-air and air-to-surface missiles. Recently, the Italian company has been receiving new-generation optoelectronic systems from Israel to complete these aircraft. The complex includes the Litening 5 sighting and navigation system, as well as the container-type RecceLite reconnaissance system.

In total, it was proposed to replace 30 Su-22M4 units of the Polish Air Force with Italian light multipurpose aircraft M-346FA. So far, there has been no official response from Warsaw to this proposal. Possible pricing has not yet been announced.

Comments

[credo]

Poland remains one of the NATO countries with Soviet-made fighters.
Maybe Russia can offer something to Poland from its fleet.

[dauria]

Maybe Russia can offer something to Poland from its fleet.

So this is our Yak-130. With imported filling. They paid for development, we did. Then they divided it up in a brotherly way.
So the Poles won't take a plane with "Russian ancestry"

[n0001]

The Aviation Academy in Demblin already has 16 aircraft. In the training version

[lelik613]

shared in a brotherly way, as a man and a bear shared a turnip. Italians have roots, but we have tops.

[tralflot1832]

Maybe we will offer them barter, like T 34 85, we are corn workers in Azerbaijan and they give us SU 22.

[Thrifty]

Well, they rolled out their lip into f35 in the field, they see it in rainbow dreams, therefore, the Italian proposal spoils their rainbow dreams!

[Sergey Ivanov_15]

So already, only without weapons and 5 pieces !!! For more policemen the United States can not !!! A penny is dumb !!!

[Tuzik]

ok, change the front-line supersonic bomber to a training plane

[donavi49]

Well, a front-line supersonic bomber is almost useless today. For it is blind, without adequate ammunition, and it is no longer fashionable to fill up with cast iron. Italian, due to multi-mode optics, heaps of ammunition, may well be used in US / NATO missions to democratize the world.

[Tuzik]

ours in Syria quite successfully pour cast iron just from front-line bombers, I think on su 22, too, similar sighting equipment can be crammed.

[demiurg]

If the glider had a normal resource, then yes, it would make sense. And if there is an opportunity to repair a car in a country that Poland does not water with cocoa non-stop.
And in the case of Poland, it will be sewing a jacket to a button.

[donavi49]

So this money is needed. Again, delving into a Soviet plane, having a program of abandoning Soviet weapons, is that. And you also need to integrate everything. In fact, by modern standards, you need to make a glass cabin and hang the containers first.

At the same time - the engine eats as if not into itself. In general, the costs of an older aircraft are high. And it’s not really helpful.

[VO3A]

At the same time - the engine eats as if not into itself. In general, the costs of an older aircraft are high. And it’s not really helpful.

The Su-24M has exactly the same engine. The digital complex on the Su-17M4 is not inferior to the 4th generation aircraft in simple meteorological conditions ...

Well, a front-line supersonic bomber is almost useless today.

may well be used in US / NATO missions to democratize the world.

You contradict yourself ... Your conclusions are superficial and are a consequence of ignorance of the capabilities of the Su-17M4 aircraft and its PRNK-54 digital complex, which were mistakenly destroyed by pseudo-reformers in Russia and its Air Force ...
Initially, the Su-17M4 complex surpassed the Su-25 complex and was not inferior in terms of capabilities to the Su-24M in the PMU ... As long as Russia operates the Su-24M and Su-25, Poland will have no problems with the Su-17M4, the equipment and main systems of which are unified ...

[Alex777]

I think on su 22, too, similar sighting equipment can be crammed.

Not. We will not sell our Hephaestus (SVP-24) to pshekam for any money.

[Doliva63]

Quote: donavi49

Well, a front-line supersonic bomber is almost useless today. For it is blind, without adequate ammunition, and it is no longer fashionable to fill up with cast iron. Italian, due to multi-mode optics, heaps of ammunition, may well be used in US / NATO missions to democratize the world.

X-25 (for example) is it cast iron?

[donavi49]

And how many of them does Poland have? How many failures will there be for mass use with an extension, through an extension, on an extension. And by modern standards, the rocket is average even in those versions that Poland does not even have in theory. Again, target detection issues come to the fore.

M346, on the other hand, supports a wide range of guided missiles and bombs, which Poland will switch to anyway.

[Doliva63]

Well, I'm not talking about the Poles' Su-22, I'm talking about our Su-17, it was a good car. Of course, outdated, but I love her.

[Snail N9]

Maybe drones are better? ...

[PROXOR]

Tell this to the Syrians. They covered the bearded with cast iron with the Su-22.

[demiurg]

"Despite the growing spending of the Polish government on armaments from year to year, the country's aircraft fleet is still difficult to call modern."
Poland does not have enough pennies to buy 30 thirty aircraft. They barely contain their falcons, cannibalize on the sly. If only the next NATO country will arrange a sale.
They cannot find money for a penny repair of their last submarine. The ground forces look decent from afar, but bad with everything else.

[wow]

An exact copy of the Yak-130!

[alexmach]

Yeah .. only better :)

[donavi49]

Not accurate, but they got out of a single project in the JV Yak-Aermacchi.

However, having more powerful engines, they have a larger margin for modernization, this time.
Having Leonardo (and now this is generally one company, because Leonardo ate almost all the military-industrial complex in Italy) - this is an advanced avionics and one of the best APM for AFAR.
Having relied on an extensive database of requirements and standards, they were able to make their aircraft friends with almost all types of weapons. Including the most modern ones. For example, М346FA carries two newest (2018) anti-ship missiles / KR - like Eurofighter. Or 12 Brimstones mk2 - hitting a pickup-type target moving along the road at a speed of over 60 km / h at 100 km of range.

Shock Yak - still cannot be born, for a number of reasons:
- There is no normal avionics for the existing size and energy. ECO, radar, control / communication systems.
- No normal weapons. Again, nothing like Brimston or a planning small-caliber bomb with a multi-mode seeker is simply not even in the layout.
- Small margin for modernization, yet the engines are weaker, and even more weight came out.

Hence the zero planned demand (why buy a Yak - if there is an M346, T-50 or a Chinese L15 - the last two are also supersonic), and the sanctions are imposed on the purchase.

[alexmach]

However, having more powerful engines, they have a larger margin for modernization, this time

I wonder what prevents the development of a version with an afterburner of the same engine, similar to that used on the Chinese counterpart?

[Herman 4223]

I don’t know about the aiming heads. But the planned small-caliber guided bombs are now being launched into series for new unmanned vehicles that should use them. As for the Yak-130, I think, if desired, a light fighter can be made from it. It's just that no one needs it. Have you bought a lot of Italian cars in the world (not training)?
And it will be even more difficult for us to sell, but we ourselves do not really need it.

[Warrior-80]

Well, not entirely zero sales, somewhere 65 pieces went abroad, not a lot of course, but still, more than 100 boards in our troops yak 130

[donavi49]

So we are not talking about TCB, but about LMFI / UBS a la M346FA / FA50. There is no such version of Yak. They planned to do it, but then it went into the eternal waiting box.

Yak's problem in the TCB version is the price and two engines. Western countries and Korea are piling up clients with money. Clients without money are spilled out by China-Pakistan with its aimless K8 with 300+ deliveries abroad.

[VO3A]

The problem is not with the Yak ... The Yak-130 was created for mastering flights on modern combat aircraft, with specific performance characteristics ... It provides for adjusting the controllability characteristics by reprogramming and it provides adaptation to new specific aircraft, turning off the 5th generation. This is not on any of his clones !!! The Su-57 and Su-35 do not have twin pairs ... If you are not aware of the training of pilots for new aircraft, this does not mean that you can carry nonsense ... In your epic impulse of a dilettante, you somewhat overdid it with conclusions ...

[Ruslan Sulima]

Well, it's a normal topic! Sushki to sell to Ukraine, they will still not be able to fly there for combat purposes ... Although here the Poles were outstripped by the Czechs, who are selling their Danes.
You know, it seems (crossed himself so that there would be no questions)), now only the dumbest of the manufacturers of military equipment has not found a buyer in the person of the Square ...

[Doliva63]

"Among other things, the Polish Air Force is armed with Su-22M4 fighter-bombers - modernized versions of the Su-22." Native Su-17! Of course, he has grown old, devil, but he is still dear to his heart.

[VO3A]

It flies in Syria and is in service not only with Poland ... Do not confuse readers and amateurs. Despite the external resemblance to the Su-17, the Su-17M4 has a different filling and capabilities. The Su-17M4 is equipped with a digital PRNK-54, which was the best for the IBA in the USSR ... It significantly surpasses the Su-17M3 and Su-17M2 in terms of combat effectiveness and technical operation. Not surprisingly, modifications were planned with a new Al-31 engine and an unchanged wing sweep ...

[Doliva63]

Quote: VO3A

It flies in Syria and is in service not only with Poland ... Do not confuse readers and amateurs. Despite the external resemblance to the Su-17, the Su-17M4 has a different filling and capabilities. The Su-17M4 is equipped with a digital PRNK-54, which was the best for the IBA in the USSR ... It significantly surpasses the Su-17M3 and Su-17M2 in terms of combat effectiveness and technical operation. Not surprisingly, modifications were planned with a new Al-31 engine and an unchanged wing sweep ...

Comrade, by Su-17 I meant the whole family of C-32, 52, 54. What was there for export, not purple.

[VO3A]

And I'm only talking about the S-54, aka Su-17m4, everything else could have been written off ... Except for the M3 pair ...

[Doliva63]

Quote: VO3A

And I'm only talking about the S-54, aka Su-17m4, everything else could have been written off ... Except for the M3 pair ...

Large raid on the M4?

[VO3A]

I am from ITS. I did not fly, but served M2, M3 and M4 ... On M2 and M3 there is an analog complex, constant adjustments and checks before each combat use, and still, when the laser rangefinder is turned on, the aiming mark trembles ... M4 is just a "fly away" in comparison with M2 and M3 ... Parameters do not go away, when replacing blocks, all settings are saved ...

[Doliva63]

Quote: VO3A

I am from ITS. I did not fly, but served M2, M3 and M4 ... On M2 and M3 there is an analog complex, constant adjustments and checks before each combat use, and still, when the laser rangefinder is turned on, the aiming mark trembles ... M4 is just a "fly away" in comparison with M2 and M3 ... Parameters do not go away, when replacing blocks, all settings are saved ...

Clear. I didn’t argue, if anything. It's just that each vegetable has its own time, but today there is no M4 either.

[Graz]

no, poland is an American plot, the Yankees won't let Italians go there

[TermNachTer]

Interestingly, psheki know how to count? How much does the "drying" lift, and how much does the Italian yaroplan? And the difference in speed is taken into account or to cover the zholezhes fleeing to Germany, is this not the most important parameter?)))

[xorek]

I look at the seams in Poland with weapons, but the ambition is steeper than that of Israel and the United States ..))))
It seems not a poor country ...

[isv000]

They were supposed to be protected by Fort Trump, they were ready to pay 2,5 green lard for this ...

[xorek]

Quote: isv000

They were supposed to be protected by Fort Trump, they were ready to pay 2,5 green lard for this ...

And so, they did not build .. Well, now they need slaves on the plantation of strawberries (rubber), etc. ..The Ukrainians may not pay and build a Ford and buy planes .. They still have no one to complain ..)))
Or the ditch is huge, they know how to dig now ..

[tralflot1832]

Wait your Baltic pip from Novegia will stretch out to heal, like M 346 FA, like an American penguin with an assed back. But only for their Polish zlotys or do they have Euriks?

[zenion]

They don't need these planes. They will also go into fornication on them. They will fly out for sure, but whether to return is a very controversial question.

[Constanty]

30 years of operation of the Su-22 wasted money.
Their combat capabilities were already illusory - and they were supposed to fight not with tribes in Africa or Asia, but theoretically with Russia! Taking advantage of the economic situation, they had to be withdrawn in 1989.
So even pilots trained on them will have to go through a whole cycle of training when transferring aircraft to good ones.
It was better to give up the illusion of power for 10-20 years, and then buy more F-16s with the money saved and train pilots for this.

Now the Italians' offer is just as bad - we are not Syria or Yemen, and such ersatz warplanes are just a source of widows for big money.

Although it may be better - any war will end sooner

[isv000]

Svidomo will be pushed in at the price of new ones, with a promise to admit to NATO, they will also pay extra ...

[Ros 56]

I suppose, at a price many times higher than the price of those in service.