NGAD Program: US Air Force General Confirms 6th Generation Fighter Prototype Has Been Taking Off

In the United States, some details are published in relation to the data on why the Air Force command plans to abandon the operation of F-2030 fighters by the beginning of 22. Earlier, Voennoye Obozreniye reported on such plans of the US Air Force, which noted that in the end the choice would be made in favor of the implementation of the NGAD - Next Generation Air Dominance program. Now the representatives of the American command have, in some way, concretized what concerns this program.

Lt. Gen. Clinton Hinough, who is the US Air Force's deputy chief of strategy for strategy, said the focus of the phasing out of F-22 fighters would be on a 6th generation fighter program. This program is the indicated NGAD. The program, as noted, involves the introduction of new principles of air combat.

The American general, who previously piloted the F-16 and F-117 aircraft, could not say exactly when such a program would be implemented in the United States. At the same time, he said that the demonstration platform created within the framework of NGAD had already taken off. Data on test flights of the 6th generation fighter prototype in the United States were also published in September 2020. General Hinough confirms those publications.

Clinton Hinough:

Yes, we are designing a new platform. There will be a difference in the software system, implemented complex sensor technologies.

The new program, as noted, provides for a modular design and the possibility of using it in an unmanned version, as well as when interacting with a UAV. An example is the American drone Valkyrie.

General Hinough:

We are studying the most optimal options for NGAD. So far, both manned and unmanned versions are being considered.

In addition, it is noted that the most important difference between the 6th generation fighter will be the presence of an artificial intelligence system, which could itself choose the optimal options not only for piloting, but also for conducting air combat.

Comments

[betta]

I don’t understand something, Su-50, is it the sixth generation?

[Volodin]

Quote: betta

I don’t understand something, Su-50, is it the sixth generation?

Su-50 - what is this?

[betta]

Yes, I burst, of course the Su-57!

[El Chuvachino]

So what does the Su-57 have to do with it?

[Nikita Vinogradov]

It can fly unmanned and has artificial intelligence systems - this is the 6th generation.

[Rageee]

Where did you get such tales about the Su-57?)
I suspect when the Yankees release their 6th generation, we will be fed su-57 +++++++++++

[El Chuvachino]

Quote: Nikita Vinogradov

this is the 6th generation.

The requirements for the notorious 6th generation have not yet been formed.

[Kaman]

If the F-35 is a flying penguin, what will the VO call NGAD?

[The leader of the Redskins]

No matter how I tried, I only read it in Russian as Well GAD!

[figwam]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

Well GAD!

Next Generation Air Dominance is the next generation of air dominance.
They have not done anything yet, but have already defeated everyone.
The latest generation of US aircraft, the F-117 is a dead end, the F-22 is a dead end, the F-35 is a dead end, now a new dead end invention, but it only makes us better.

[dauria]

Next Generation Air Dominance is the next generation of air dominance.

More habitual "air supremacy". Actually, it's time for them to make a new plane. The F-35 went into production. The F-22, whatever one may say, from the idea to the end of operation will be 40 years old. Moreover, they trampled the way for everyone, there is no one to spy on. Since they did not begin to modernize, something did not suit them. Either in idea or in execution.
We would have to think about it - we are starting to rivet the Su-57 series, and for some reason they write off the exact same machine. Not the point, the gap turns out to be too big. I used to be in "half a car", 4 - 5 years. They (we) have a series, we (they) take off an experienced one.
And leave the "generations" with "requirements" for something to the magazines. Let them indulge.

[V1er]

We begin to rivet the Su-57 series, and for some reason they write off exactly the same car.

Not exactly the same. Our fighters have a different concept, not only super-visibility and long-range combat. I remember a very old reportage, when, in my opinion, the first only prototype of the Su-57 took off. Then the designer let slip that we are already working out the 6th generation fighter, and the Su-57 is a test of these technologies. So it might be a transitional fighter with drone drone and unmanned aerial vehicle already built into it. You also need to see what the Americans are up to, while their new-generation concepts are blurred and offer nothing new.

[dauria]

You also have to see what the Americans are up to

That's just it. Only they have experience of operation, exercises and combat use of "stealth". Surely there were "rakes" on which they had to step. Once they started something new, deciding to "trample" on the F-15 without upgrading the F-22, then the rake is big. Without illusions - the glider and drying engines are one to one, I don't believe in advancing jerks in electronics. We are starting to make a car, and they wrote off exactly the same one.

[hrych]

Quote: dauria

We start to make a car, and they wrote off exactly the same one.

First of all, don't forget about export. The Su-57 was designed for the Indian market in particular, etc. Secondly, for special operations, we must have a small series of such machines. Of course, the Su-57 will occupy only a narrow cluster, and the basis for gaining dominance will be behind the Su-35. The cluster of front-line bombers will be behind the Su-34. (The West has abandoned the division of a fighter and a front-line soldier in the direction of universality. In fact, a mediocre fighter and a mediocre front-line soldier, even worse an attack aircraft). The difference between the approaches of the Russian Federation and the West. They rely on stealth, make it the main ..., and we continue to rely on flight performance characteristics, missile and radar range of our main, mass aircraft. I repeat, a small series of Su-57 is only for special operations and in anticipation of export. But the MiG-35 continues to control the stratosphere, although some will become missile carriers. Therefore, for us, the 6th generation will be different, i.e. the stratosphere, and maybe higher, and not artificial intelligence. AI is another dead end parasha. The "rake" has already knocked them over, so the F-35 is already a compromise plane, a kind of average, average lousy in everything, including stealth. The problem is in the development of Russian ZGRLS, meter radars and long-range missiles capable of extinguishing AWACS aircraft, which are the eyes of stealth. For the invisible, he himself does not see anything, but the blind man receives information from the AWACS aircraft. And besides the destruction of the AWACS aircraft by missiles and air-to-air missiles (ala KS-172), it still does not allow receiving electronic warfare information. F-35 or F-22 forced to include their radars and confusion? Over the territory of the active air defense of the enemy and with fighters completely superior in performance characteristics. This hole is a violation of the electronic warfare communication, they want to close the AI, but to the point. This AI, Skynet, will also have to turn on AFAR, but how else?

[JD1979]

Do you by any chance write unscientific fiction on samizdat?

[lucul]

We start to make a car, and they wrote off exactly the same

You don't see trees in the forest))))
Why was the F-14 decommissioned? Too, too expensive. Why F-22? More expensive.
Any designer has thousands of dilemmas - what materials to choose for the construction? To create - a la F-22 is not a problem, but will the economy pull? )))
Let me remind you, the USSR, at one time created the MiG-21, which cost no more than the BMP-1)))) This is the top of the design art, to create high-tech equipment from sticks.

[Revolver]

Quote: dauria

something did not suit them. Either in idea or in execution.

In the price. While the USSR was, the spending was justified, but against China and the F-35 is good.

[Nikita Vinogradov]

I liked your stretched dimension - from "idea" to "end of operation" ... 40 years.

[dauria]

I liked your stretched dimension - from "idea" to "end of operation" ... 40 years.

! 990-2030. What's wrong ?
90 - win the order
94 - takeoff of pre-production
97-Series Beginning
2011-end of the series.
2030 - "promised" to write off.

[Maikcg]

there is no one to spy on

"The method of edge waves in the physical theory of diffraction" P. Ya. Ufimtsev, 1962, publishing house "Soviet radio"

[hrych]

Quote: figvam

The latest generation of US aircraft F-117 - dead end, F-22 - dead end, F-35 - dead end

SR-71 - dead end, XB-70 Valkyrie - dead end, B-1A - dead end. The shuttle is a dead end. This was the time when there was a race for speed and height. Our engineers knocked them out of there. MiG25 / 31 they were kicked out of there. Therefore, Tu-160, Tu22M3, etc. settled there, and the Americans clung to the ground and smeared themselves with stealth feces, the bastards disguised themselves. But it touched the same MiG-31 on PFAR Zaslon, to look out for chickens from above like an eagle, as well as ZGRLS, their concept of a low-altitude breakthrough with invisible hats was again made rotten. The only thing I don't quite agree with is that the F-35 is a dead end. This plane is a compromise, with the preservation of locksmith hysteria, but still with a claim to versatility. Such a fairly strong middling. The budget is raised, of course, but nevertheless.

[dauria]

Our engineers knocked them out of there.

So they knocked us out. "Sotka" is a dead end. "Buran" is a dead end. But then they walked side by side. And in dead ends and in competent decisions. The MiG-31 is an unnecessary moment-25. Not quite a suitable replacement for the Tu-128. Tu-22 is a long-range bomber, the Americans did not need this class. Not in Europe, not at sea. They did not build it until China had a decent navy. Now they are doing B-22.
Tu-160 - yes, the dog knows him in the current conditions, we are not doing it from a good life, there is no other and will not soon be.

[hrych]

Quote: dauria

So they knocked us out. "Sotka" is a dead end. "Buran" is a dead end.

Not really. We refused on time ourselves. At the prototype stage. The indicators were also recorded for fun. They followed the path of the Valkyrie and Shuttle disasters. Smart people learn from other people's mistakes, they learn from theirs.

Quote: dauria

The MiG-31 is an unnecessary moment-25.

Here we have a modernization and it is in a perfect airborne radar, the first phased array in history. Those. his unique stratospheric abilities were used, he became a kind of AWACS aircraft with the most distant air-to-air missiles. Looking out for a target from a great height. Those. even though high-altitude and high-speed targets escaped from the MiG-25 into oblivion, and the rest clung to the ground, but it did not go into oblivion, but went to develop into the MiG-31. Which also evolves into the MiG-31BM and the strategic missile carrier MiG-31K. And MiG-41 will be our 6th generation. A dead end, when itself is scrapped and there are no descendants on its basis, but here it is development and evolution. Tu-160 is unsurpassed and why change the best. The missiles he carries are evolving. He himself does not climb into the air defense zone and can deliver the maximum weight and faster than any analogue. The USA had long-range vehicles, it was an F-111, it did not lie around with the Tu-22, but it was not bad. He became a victim of stealth hysteria, he also could not get away from the MiG-31. Those. the same victim of our interceptors and air defense. Stealth is not from a good life, but from despair. Imagine destroying the technology of very advanced aircraft on the verge of fiction and engaging in this topic for decades, making mediocre aircraft in the hope of invisibility in a narrow track of the detection spectrum. This is a tragedy for the American aircraft industry and the entire West. When Britain simply curtailed the production of bombers altogether, but only makes light fighters and even then together with other Europeans. And of course the Pentagon is not, therefore, they are not going to abandon the F-15.

[JD1979]

Quote: figvam

The latest generation of US aircraft, the F-117 is a dead end, the F-22 is a dead end, the F-35 is a dead end, now a new dead end invention, but it only makes us better.

Humanity, too, for the last 2 thousand years as a dead-end branch of evolution, will not move anywhere. And technology tends to become outdated, just like a bunch of Soviet planes are outdated, which have been replaced by new ones, but they played their role in THEIR time.

[Baron pardus]

Whether it is a dead end or not, we will find out ONLY after these planes enter the battle, and not with bearded men in dressing gowns and with a set of AK / RPGs, it will be possible to guess what and how. So far, NONE of the Israeli F-35s have been shot down during the attacks on Syria. So it's too early to declare them a dead end. That's when the F35 / F22 will meet with Chinese fighters in the air, and in real combat conditions, then we will be able to say something. So far, this is all about using agricultural tools on the water surface. Dead end, not dead end, penguin, alligator. There are no real facts. In the exercise, it is not clear whether the Americans are flying with dipole reflectors or not. And I work showing all 100% of the capabilities of my aircraft, or not, hoping that their aviation will be underestimated.

[aszzz888]

Kaman (Kaman)
Today, 07: 28

-1
If the F-35 is a flying penguin, what will the VO call NGAD?

You run ahead of the locomotive. Still only a "demonstration platform", and yes, the implementation of the project, like walking to the moon.
And after the name the matter will not be, let's name it.

[Errr]

Quote: Kaman

If the F-35 is a flying penguin, what will the VO call NGAD?

A viper with wheels.

[Snail N9]

Take above: 6+. Gee-gee. In Russia, they see no prospects in either 5 or 6 "generations. Yachts the size of a destroyer or frigate and" no man's palaces "are more promising.
And also, there is a "blue dream" - "Rogozinskaya atomic" death star ", however, as usual, in projects and partly in your favorite" weight and size models "... But there is" there "! Where are the mattresses, now, before us! So we will win!

[ZAV69]

Throwing sarcasm defended

[knn54]

Flight of "Fantasy" ...

[Snail N9]

It is the "Fantasies" of Roskosmos. While the Chinese rover has just successfully landed on Mars.

[Nikita Vinogradov]

Conscientious Martian probes landed on Mars back in 1975 ... Just don't cry!

[JD1979]

Quote: Nikita Vinogradov

Conscientious Martian probes landed on Mars back in 1975 ... Just don't cry!

You still make a reference to ancient Egypt. The USSR came out and Roscosmos not only surpassed it, it cannot even repeat a lot))) including sending something just to Mars, not to mention landing.

[Maikcg]

Well, America will bend in its inflation (if the war does not suit), then the Chinese will bend together without the American market, well, without the European one, they will pupate with the owner. And back to the extermination of sparrows, there will be no talk of any rovers either.

The USSR, of course, came out, but this does not mean that everything was finally over without the slightest hint of such things. So purely for reference, the USSR sent stations to Mars, of course, purchasing grain from the United States. And modern Russia does not send rovers, but does not buy grain from the United States. What's easier?

[Baron pardus]

America from INFLATION will not bend. We print the money ourselves, we ourselves say how much it costs, and if you do not agree, then you have little democracy, blacks and LGBT people are infringed on and you have little feminism, and our AUGs go to you, and we will just buy your politicians. The problem of the United States and the weakness of the United States is not inflation, from the word at all.

[JD1979]

Quote: MaikCG

And modern Russia does not send rovers, but does not buy grain from the United States. What's easier?

It turns out that the USSR did the complicated things themselves and bought the simple ones, but now, on the contrary, we grow grain, and space is only memories of past successes.

[Maikcg]

Convinced. Build nuclear reactors, super-icebreakers, enrich half of the world's uranium, and buy socks in China. Neither in the USSR nor in Russia could they have such simplicity ..

[mitroha]

The American general, who previously piloted the F-16 and F-117 planes, could not say exactly when such a program will be implemented in the United States.

I don’t understand at all how the first and second parts of the sentence are related. Author, ay !!

[out of habit]

Apparently the general is stuck at the goblin level.

[URAL72]

And what, not even cartoons? Alarming news. Where is our light fighter? I doubt the need for a heavy MiG-31 to replace it. Su-57 will be able to replace it, - cruising supersonic, much longer range, V-V BD missiles, AFAR with a range of up to 450 km. Adapted to bad airfields, takeoff run 600m. Excellent!

[prior]

On the part of all sorts of wunderwaves, here the Americans are always ahead,
but only until they are faced with a simple Russian Yakut.

[Avior]

I'm sorry to upset you, but this is actually a journalistic fiction.
There was a group of armored vehicles, and other fighters, and not one soldier.
Sensation makers simply cropped the frame correctly, misleading people.

[prior]

Well, not alone, but with comrades. Well, not Yakuts, but Buryats.
And what does that change?
Climb - get. And no 6th generation aircraft on earth will save the aggressors.

[Avior]

not with comrades, but with a group of armored vehicles.
not a Buryat, but a Kazakh.
and history is not true, but journalistic fiction
But if it's all the same, truth or fiction, it really doesn't change anything for you, I agree with that.

[Herman 4223]

And what is the fiction? The soldier went out into the open with a machine gun at the enemy. The enemy is armed and not for a walk, there were hostilities.
For this you need to have courage and iron eggs.

[Avior]

Nobody says, there was no courage in his behavior.
Only the fact that he alone came out against the Georgian column - as it was promoted in the press with the cropped photo above as alleged proof - is a common invention. Not alone, and not with comrades, but with a group of armored vehicles.
This can be clearly seen in the video.

[Herman 4223]

Do you see his comrades in the video?
He stands alone.

[Avior]

and had to stand in an embrace, then you would see both comrades and armored vehicles, but without this you can not?
Oh well

[Herman 4223]

You are talking about some kind of deception. And he came out alone, so what's the deception?

[Avior]

have you seen the video? and what's on the video? is he alone there?

[konstantin68]

Quote: Avior

and had to stand in an embrace, then you would see both comrades and armored vehicles, but without this you can not?
Oh well

And the warrior of the adversary would not have resisted and would have smacked it in a line .. Would it have flown over this guy or his comrades? Would you do it yourself, critic?

[Avior]

And for the guy and for his comrades, they stood nearby, a couple of steps away, he was not alone there.
This is if the adversaries are suicides, stand in front of the enemy's armored vehicles and shoot at some fighter with a burst
Watch the video above, which I brought, and it will become clear

[Victorio]

Quote: Avior

I'm sorry upset you, but in fact this is a journalistic fiction.

===
if I am not mistaken, then this is your second or third "exposure".

[Avior]

what?
I'm not happy when people blindly believe in journalistic fictions.

[Victorio]

Quote: Avior

what?
I'm not thrilledwhen people blindly believe in journalistic fiction.

===
of course this is your business, but on the next branch (https://topwar.ru/183011-delegacija-kongressa-ssha-posetila-pozicii-vsu-na-linii-razgranichenija-v-donbasse.html) your manifestations are not yet visible- revelations

[Piramidon]

Quote: Avior

There was a group of armored vehicles, and other fighters, and not one soldier.

Nobody said that he was there alone. They wrote that he simply separated from the group and went out to the meeting alone.

[Avior]

And this is not true too - see the video above
Did not separate and did not come out
But in fact, there are a lot of statements that he alone stopped the Georgian convoy and the cropped photo is cited as alleged evidence
In fact, a group of Russian armored vehicles stopped two Georgian pickup trucks.

[Errr]

Quote: Avior

There was a group of armored vehicles, and other fighters, and not one soldier.

There were no armored vehicles on the Russian side. There were only 4 people on the UAZ: Colonel Shtondenko Yuri Vladimirovich, machine gunner Ibrashev Tasbolat Abatovich, assistant machine gunner and shooter.

[Avior]

And on which side did the armored vehicles stand behind him?
Do you know the joke "Whom do you believe - your shameless eyes or your beloved wife?"
In your video, this armored vehicle is also visible, but the caption under the plot on the screen claims that he alone stopped the convoy.
I gave an even more detailed video above. Everything is clearly visible there.
Colonna, by the way, is two pickup trucks with Georgians.

[Errr]

Bravo! It turns out the colonel asked to give him a machine gunner with a PKM in harness to the lone armored personnel carrier with KPVT already on the sidelines. A masterpiece!

[Avior]

Once again, I brought the video above, everything is clearly visible there. Do you believe your own eyes?
And armored vehicles were behind him, and other soldiers stood nearby.
My video shows that there was not only an APC, look, it is shown above.
The video also shows that the "column" of Georgians is a pair of pickups.
This can be seen even in your video.
That being said, your video claims that he was alone.
Apparently, it is designed either for blind spectators, or for those who believe not their own eyes, but the signatures under the plot.
Plus the usual manipulation of the viewer - the words about the Georgian convoy are given against the background of shots of Russian tanks.
Carefully watch my video above, you can clearly see who was there and what kind of equipment was.

[Timon2155]

Don't bother explaining something to someone! Smart and with eyes, having watched the video, he will understand everything. You won't prove it to the rest. You give them facts, they give you all sorts of nonsense from journalists. Well, it's nice for people to be deceived, let them be deceived, this is the usual bragging: here, they say, are our most daring, the best, and so on. And in a real conflict, bragging = underestimation of the enemy and loss. Until 41, they also wanted to beat the enemy on his own territory. The meaning is the same everywhere: patriotism is a good thing, but intelligence and a sober assessment are more important.

[AshPoseidon]

Russian developers are also working on the creation of the PAK DP (a promising long-range intercept aircraft complex), most likely it will be a MIG-41. By the way, there is an opinion that the Su-57 after the upgrade can go from the fifth to the sixth.

[Andylw]

Quote: Ash Poseidon

there is an opinion that the Su-57 after the upgrade can go from the fifth to the sixth.

since when did a fighter without stealth technology and with 4th generation engines become the 5th generation?
and how can he become 6th?
if only on paper?

[Prjanik]

Yeah, stealth lines of the aircraft, in-fuselage placement of weapons is just that) And on these engines "4" generation at cruising speed flies faster than the penguin "5" at maximum with afterburner

[Andylw]

straight channels of air intakes, metal cigars of engines sticking out separately (a la su27), and not tucked inside the fuselage, like the amers and the Chinese, everywhere sticking out sensors, including a huge bump of OLS, rivets and creepy bolts all over the fuselage, the absence of radio-absorbing putties and paints.
Su57 is assembled according to the technologies of the 70s and has nothing to do with stealth.
even Rafali have a smaller epr

[Prjanik]

Seriously, do you know the EPR of the Su-57 and Rafaley?) The blades of the engines are still closed with special nozzles, 70% of the glider area is composites, if there is no stealth coating now, climbing and burning, like on a penguin, this does not mean that it will not be applied, in if necessary. And the penguin and with him are normally visible on the radar screens

[Andylw]

smiled about the attachments
and there is NO stealth coatings of level Ф35 in the Russian Federation. from the word at all. here we are losing 40 years to amers.
the maximum is poor spraying, which is applied for 2 weeks on each side and which are issued here as a miracle that has no analogues in the world and which the Americans applied to their f16 back in the 80s.
about climbs and burns - this is about f22.
f35 coatings are much more resistant

[Prjanik]

I just open the same wiki and read that the F-35 is not recommended to fly in high humidity conditions because of the peeling coating and there are limitations in operation at super sound, since this coating on the tail burns with afterburner

[Andylw]

you need to read with links to primary sources - the pentagon
https://www.defensenews.com/smr/hidden-troubles-f35/2020/05/22/the-inside-story-of-two-supersonic-flights-that-changed-how-america-operates-the-f-35/
at many hours of extreme loads, microcracks appear, which are detected only instrumental in the laboratory
such loads are not expected in real conditions
read propaganda less

[Nikita Vinogradov]

In fact, he has stealth technology - it's banal and his engines have an all-aspect deflected thrust vector, in contrast to the 2-aspect pins ...

[Andylw]

did not know that the main purpose of the 5th generation fighters was to participate in dogfights

[Avior]

The relevance of OVT in the late years has greatly decreased with the advent of missiles with a full-spherical launch with a high overload capacity, like Python5, for example, and with the advent of a full-spherical vision system on aircraft.
Now it is no longer necessary to "twist" the enemy, trying to direct the nose of his plane at him, it is enough just to see him.
And the appearance of missiles with an overload of 50 gi does not make it possible to disrupt the guidance by maneuver, since the overload capacity of the aircraft is actually a maximum of 7-8 gi, even with an OVT, even without it, neither the pilot nor the car can really withstand anymore, and the missile with an overload in 50 gi is almost impossible to shake off with the help of 7-8, well, let 9 gi for special pilots, except perhaps under some happy coincidence

[venik]

"...NGAD Program: US Air Force General Confirms 6th Generation Fighter Prototype Has Been Taking Off..."
=======
Lord! Well, let's lift something exotic into the air and call it right away "8-th generation "!!! Well, or right away -"9th "!!!
Как уже zadolbali all these PR actions!
Would like to watch. how "Drying" 35C "cuts" "Penguin" !!! Regardless of all sorts of "generations" there!

[Crimean partisan 1974]

Lord! Well let's get something exotic into the air

.... I suggest Armata with wings .... everyone in the world will be stunned and they will refuse to fight with us at all ... and in general they will practically surrender to us into annexation

[Nikita Vinogradov]

you just fart into a puddle ...

[Crimean partisan 1974]

you just fart into a puddle ...

.... nikita. and you know that in the 30s of the 20th century in the USSR, the development of flying tanks based on BT-5 was seriously going on to support the then nascent air infantry, later, when a system for braking equipment for parachuting was developed, the need for winged tanks disappeared. ... so which of us farted into the water ... and in general, do not get involved in the dialogue for all sorts of nonsense

[Andylw]

Quote: venik

Would like to watch. how "Drying" 35C "cuts" "Penguin" !!! Regardless of all sorts of "generations" there!

take a pill and in a dream you will see ...
The F-35 is head and shoulders above the modernized Soviet dryers.

[Nikita Vinogradov]

Hike, you miss the pills ...

[Prjanik]

Penguin merges Drying in speed, maneuverability, thrust-to-weight ratio, payload, combat radius, that is, in all basic parameters, but a cut above

[Andylw]

"Penguin merges Drying in speed, maneuverability, thrust-to-weight ratio, payload, combat radius, that is, in all basic parameters, but a cut above"

and even more by these parameters, it "drains" the moment-25 ...
on this basis, we conclude that the Mig-25 will do the penguin?
for you the concept of generations of fighters is an empty phrase
the main thing is not speed and maneuverability, but stealth, sensors, information exchange and range of destruction

[Prjanik]

In maneuverability, the MiG-25 does not merge, we must pay tribute to it) However, the penguin is still perfectly visible on radars, and when Sushki is integrated with ground-based radars and they will receive target designation from them, then little will save him from long-range missiles with active heads

[Andylw]

the penguin is still perfectly visible on radars

sure. Everything can be seen. The question is from what distance.
it is possible from 1 km, like a penguin, and it is possible from 100 km, like drying.
the difference however

when Sushki is integrated with ground-based radars and they will receive target designation from them

ahah
and if there is no ground radar?
amers have a drlo and a data exchange system between fighters, which the Russian Federation does not have

once again, su57 fighter 4 ++
primarily on non-stealth layout, which cannot be fixed by any software and sensor upgrades
Alas

[Prjanik]

I read somewhere that this year or next year they are integrating air defense systems into the general ace, including over-the-horizon, and aircraft, first the Su-57. Although they already have radars of the decimeter range in the wings for stealths. The layout with internal compartments for arming already implies stealth, since it reduces the EPR, there was infa about 0,4m for the Su-57 and 0,2-0,3m for the penguin in the front projection

[Andylw]

straight channels of air intakes, metal cigars of engines sticking out separately (a la su27), and not retracted inside the fuselage, like the amers and the Chinese, everywhere sticking out sensors, including a huge bump of OLS, rivets and creepy bolts all over the fuselage

All this negates the advantages of the in-body placement of weapons.

[Prjanik]

For example, such gizmos in the air intake of the Su-57 reduce the radiolocation signature of the engines https://yandex.ru/patents/doc/RU2623031C1_20170621
At the angles that these cigars of engines will begin to reflect, the EPR stealth will no longer be much different from all other aircraft, in normal modes it simply turns the side with a radio-absorbing coating. In addition to the internal compartments, the geometry of the airframe, which excludes right angles, the edges of the bearing surfaces, the use of materials scattering radiation, in principle, all current "stealth" have approximately the same EPR in the front projection, this is the main thing.
Moreover, long-wave decimeter and meter radars normally see them in any case and will give target designation to all means of destruction, ground and air. I think if by the 6th generation they start to install rofars, then the concept of "stealth" will completely exhaust itself

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: Prjanik

to give target designation to all means of destruction, ground and air.

Target designation no, detect yes.

Quote: Prjanik

start to put rofars, then the concept of "stealth" will completely exhaust itself

No, it will finally kill the 4th generation. For the 5th generation, it will be necessary to update the coating for better absorption of photons. Naturally where it is.

[Prjanik]

They will give target designation, just for this, all ground, air and space systems and means of reconnaissance and destruction are integrated into a single information space, so that any carrier has the opportunity to shoot with a multi-mode rocket, from which the stealth cannot escape, only try to shoot down himself. And from this moment on, stealth will not play any role, at least against such an opponent.

[Andylw]

these are all crutches from the lack of stealth technologies and the experience of creating stealth aircraft in the Russian Federation.
conscientious technologies of the 70s, slightly rethought
and the gap is only growing
in the states for the 6th generation
J-20 is more stealth than su57
J-20B already with a Chinese engine
lag and degradation not only in stealth coatings, but also in the element base.
and dreams about rofars are ridiculous.
considering that we have 1 (ONE) frontline AFAR for ALL of Russia
game
China sculpts them for everything that has been flying for 10 years, not to mention amers and Europeans

[Prjanik]

Stealth is far from being a universal lifesaver, and as for me, the further, the less prospects it has, as a marketing trick, it justifies itself perfectly, but the Americans avoid confronting their stealth with the S-400. Therefore, it is not so important who has 0,1 less epr. As for the element base, 100% agree, we need to catch up, since they don’t regret the money now, the main thing is to spend it wisely.
As beep lights on 4+ Sushki, in some characteristics at that time they were better than afars, in terms of range, the number of detected and tracked targets, now they are inferior to new ones in terms of multimodality and noise immunity, therefore there is something for 5 afars and for the MiG-35 there seems to be something. Here they have a type 6 generation flies, and what advantages it has over 5 they themselves do not know, integration into a single information field, AI, interaction with UAVs and 5 do

[Andylw]

stealth will be the 6th generation!
technologies are only getting better. Russia is at the beginning of the journey with its su57 4 ++
EPR for f35 is an ORDER lower than for su57. By any calculation, except urapatriotic

confronting their stealth with the S-400, the Americans avoid

and rightly so
shining the signatures of their newest exterminators is stupid
they therefore fly with corner reflectors where they can get into the enemy's radar zone.

[Prjanik]

Where did you get infa about the EPR Su-57, for comparison, to talk as much about the orders in the difference? And in advertising brochures, Lockheed will write 0,00001m and will not blink an eye. For some reason, the Turks refused to sell the F-35 after they acquired the S-400. The Americans themselves, meanwhile, are modifying and ordering new f-15s, without stealth. Of course, you can call the Su-57 at least a 4th generation, but at the same time talk about an overweight penguin as about 5 and something there is 6, I don't understand, although the F-22 is old, without ols and infrared cameras, it also had cruising sound on the best engines of that time, and thrust-to-weight ratio and maneuverability. It's good at least everyone stopped writing about a flat nozzle, as an example to follow, after the F-35 was made with a round

[Andylw]

to calculate EPR there are formulas
and to understand that a stealth fighter is orders of magnitude less noticeable than nestels (su57) you don't need to be a visionary
http://www.scienpress.com/Upload/JCM/Vol%204_1_9.pdf

[Crimean partisan 1974]

and stealth, sensors, information exchange and range of destruction

... already an adult and you believe in fairy tales .... then explain how meteorological radars measure the density of clouds. there is no EPR at all .... how do civil aviation radar stations detect schools of migratory birds to warn liners about a change in echelon ... but when Sushki and Molnakhi collide nose to nose, then it will be better for you maneuverability and speed and maximum overload

[Andylw]

what does the meteorological radar and fighter radar have to do with it?
don't you see the difference?
but in terms of maneuverability ...
what is the penguin missing?
here's what he can do:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeuHmnjxX0A&feature=emb_logo

[Crimean partisan 1974]

what is the penguin missing?

......... the average wing load is almost 500 kg per square meter (for the Su-27- 35 fighter line does not exceed 400 kg) ... the average thrust-to-weight ratio for the Molnachi barely reaches one, while for the opponent it exceeds unit, the ability to overload in the Molnacha is 7-8ZH, the opponent has 9-10ZH, the Molnacha does not have the ability to fly at supercritical angles of attack ... and there are many things that Molnacha does not have ... but that is enough ... Do not send them to me, I still don’t watch them for safety reasons

[Andylw]

Well, on this link there were F35 aerobatics, including everything that circus performers show on drying houses at the show ...
I do not see any difference between su and f35 in terms of maneuverability

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: AndyLW

I do not see any difference between su and f35 in terms of maneuverability

The F-22 indicator for "extreme turn" reaches 70 'per second. F-35 45 'per second, the maximum for the Su-27 is 36' / s.

[Andylw]

judging by these rollers, everything is fine with f35 with maneuverability compared to su35 and mig35

[OgnennyiKotik]

This video is worth watching for all OBT fans.

[Crimean partisan 1974]

I do not see any difference between su and f35 in terms of maneuverability

....... but in vain, I should have noticed that the molnacha is pulling to the right ... I'm not a hooray patriot, in general we have one problem with the engines. or rather, with their resource ... but nevertheless, it is worth noting that the training battles conducted with the old man F-16 Molnacha did not show outstanding performance, being either conditionally shot down by Falcon or approximately on an equal footing ... I do not know, it is likely that training battles took place with the participation of guys from the Aggressor squadron who are famous for their recklessness ... but the fact is ... it is worth noting that the Molniakha was originally prepared for vparivaniya allies on the kind ... from toho so bad

[Andylw]

maple leaf can, barrels and loops twists
F35 has the entire arsenal for real combat

[OgnennyiKotik]

About "barrels"

[Crimean partisan 1974]

F35 has the entire arsenal for real combat

........ An-2 with AFAR and a pair of long-range P-37s will also fit in theoretically for a real battle ....... the question will survive if you find yourself next to a full-fledged fighter next to ... that's what the pipa is ... ..so with the penguin

[venik]

Quote: AndyLW

The F-35 is head and shoulders above the modernized Soviet dryers.

========
Examples - "in the studio" !!! :
PS And here the "ukropatriots" have pulled themselves up ..... Right now, "slippers from the sofa" will fly like a jamb .....

[Cat Alexandrovich]

In the Russian language, the concept of "lift in a voyuh" can be understood in very different ways.

[Artemion3]

Truly, how much was spent on the development of the f-22, how much more will be spent on ngad

[ZAV69]

About the flight of a demonstrator to a combat aircraft. Decades of development and refinement. The next generation is much more difficult and more expensive. What kind of 6th generation are we talking about, if the criteria of the 6th generation have not yet been worked out. So it's just PR and nothing more. But the fact that the development of new technology is a fact. Yes, they all go, only on the sly.

[rotmistr60]

Can it be understood that the 5th generation (the same F-35), the problems of which the American military are complaining about, has already exhausted itself and an aircraft of the 6th generation is urgently needed?

the presence of an artificial intelligence system that would be able to choose the optimal options not only for piloting, but also for conducting air combat

If "Russia cannot be understood with the mind, cannot be measured with a common yardstick ...", then will AI really be able to conduct an air battle with a Russian pilot in control of a Russian plane?

[Victorio]

there is an order, there is money, brains and production capacity too, why not do this.

[Herman 4223]

It's time for us, of course, to start with the development of a new car. Only in a complex for the main vehicle, light fighter, unmanned aerial vehicles and AWACS. So that everything is in harmony with each other and works.

[Nikita Vinogradov]

Su-57 - Hunter UAVs are already flying ...

[Herman 4223]

The Su-57 began to be developed back in 2002. Science and technology have not stood still for these 19 years. Our designers and scientists can now do something better. In addition, the start of development now is the first flight in ten years. It's like a bookmark for the future.

[Herman 4223]

In addition, during the development of the Su-57, a light fighter was immediately pushed in. And they need to be done together. Immediately work out their joint use and production.

[rocket757]

NGAD Program: US Air Force General Confirms 6th Generation Fighter Prototype Has Been Taking Off

... That's it!!! And then there were many doubts expressed why they were going to write off the F 22.

[Herman 4223]

So they will be physically worn out by the thirtieth year. They don't stand on the ground like in Ukraine, they fly a lot. To date, the newest aircraft is ten years old, the first is already twenty. Even if nothing appears, you will have to write off.

[rocket757]

Deterioration of technology, an objective process ... which way will the Yankees go, replacing technology with a completely new one, which has yet to be created or make a "mess" of technology from different generations ??? Is that a question?

[OgnennyiKotik]

According to the current strategy, 4 F-15EX / 16 / 35A / NGAD fighters will remain in the USAF. In the 30s, the F-15C / D, F-15E, F-22 and A-10 will be decommissioned. It is also planned to replace the F-16 "with something else." I think it will be a jet, relatively cheap UAV fighter or a deep modernization of the F-16.
Navy: FA-18E / F, F-35С. With the replacement of the 18th by FA-XX in 30 all years.
Marines: F-35В / С

[Herman 4223]

Most likely they will change to a new one right away. But this is if the plans come true, of course, and there will be no technical delays with the launch of the series.

[Nikita Vinogradov]

All the years of the F-22,35 program, our experts insisted that this was a gigantic hunt for the US budget, since junk was created. Now this is officially confirmed by the United States by the abandonment of the latest aircraft, which cost an incredible amount of money, by 2030. As I understand it, one thing .. they are now replacing it with another, even more. Well, we don't feel sorry for the American budget ... Also, let them replace their Zamvolts with even more unusable ones - we will applaud! Black Life is truly Matter!

[voyaka uh]

The first flight of the F-22 was in 1997. Development of the 80s,
when there was still no Internet, and no network connections.
The computer on the F-22 is very ancient, it is impossible to replace the software - tough architecture,
hard firmware.
Will last until 2030 and write off.
Avionics are now updated every 10-15 years, approximately.
Therefore, they make airplanes with an open architecture. Software, devices and weapons
can be replaced gradually, as it becomes obsolete for many years

[iouris]

The "prototype" uses the same principles for flight as fighters of previous generations.

[Conjurer]

Quote: AndyLW

Well, on this link there were F35 aerobatics, including everything that circus performers show on drying houses at the show ...
I do not see any difference between su and f35 in terms of maneuverability

You are overly trusting of American informants, and in fact they do not even hide the fact that their task is advertising in order to promote their products to the world market. Where have you seen the ad without exaggeration? They always overestimate the characteristics of their technology, business, nothing personal.
And in essence, there is no point in counting the plus signs in the designation (felts 4 ++, or 5--). The result is important.
For example, F-35,
- as a fighter, not even able to catch up with the Su-34 (front-line bomber) (I hope you understand that before launching missiles, you need to approach the target at the required distance, because no one guarantees you that the target will fly directly at you) , it cannot escape any of our even heavily outdated fighters (and after all, situations when it is necessary to evade a battle, for example, due to the overwhelming superiority of the enemy, are not uncommon in a war), i.e. this machine cannot perform functions in a war a fighter (at least against us), since it will incur heavy losses in this role and will not fulfill its missions to destroy bombers;
- as an attack aircraft, it makes no sense at all, because the principle of the placement of weapons does not allow the use of these weapons at close range, and the absence of armor protection and a single engine guarantee low survivability in conditions of air defense, i.e. large losses;
- as a front-line bomber, it has a too small volume of weapons bays (and external suspensions are not provided on it), therefore, a very limited range of ammunition that can make the most of its carrying capacity, and, therefore, a limited range of tasks, or low efficiency, like a bomber. In addition, acting in the front line, he will be irradiated from all directions, and even with powerful radar signals (after all, at close range), that is, his invisibility will not affect here in any way. Again big losses, again unusability.
Well, why do we need such a plane?

[zenion]

But the F-22 pilots received such an instruction - when meeting with Russian aircraft, immediately leave for their territory, to airfields under the protection of anti-aircraft missiles.

[Paranoid50]

If there's anything intriguing about this project at the moment, it's the price tag.

[mojohed2012]

F35 failed. Deficiencies and failures are above the roof and rest only on forcing the satellites to buy this failed device. Now we need to patch up the hole. They will patch with a new F36 but already unmanned and announced by the 66th generation ...

[zenion]

Exactly the same altitude as the Wright brothers' plane and flew the same distance. American progress in aeronautics cuts the air beautifully like a hot knife cuts butter.