The press of Ukraine understands why Poroshenko and nationalists disrupt the creation of a memorial in Babi Yar

Petro Poroshenko and Ukrainian nationalists disrupt the creation of a memorial in Babi Yar. Now there is a stubborn struggle against them to perpetuate the memory of the victims of the Nazis.

Writes about this Ukrainian edition "Strana.ua".

During the Great Patriotic War, tens of thousands of Jews, Gypsies, as well as prisoners of the Red Army and commanders were shot at Babi Yar, located not far from Kiev. The press of Ukraine understands why certain forces in the country in every possible way prevent the perpetuation of their memory.

The construction of the memorial has already been approved by the authorities, and money from the budget is not needed for this. Very wealthy people are ready to invest in construction - big businessmen from Ukraine, Russia and Israel. It was assumed that in its scope Babi Yar would be able to compete with the Holocaust Museum in New York or the Yad Vashem memorial complex in Jerusalem.

But the participation of businessmen from Russia in the project aroused the indignation of nationalists, as well as Poroshenko who joined them and the European Solidarity party led by him.

Actually, formally, they are not against the creation of the complex, but for replacing the "Russian" project with a "Ukrainian" one. This refers to an alternative state construction project with budget money, which in fact does not exist and is not foreseen.

In this regard, the Jewish community of Ukraine fears that "Poroshenko's companions", so to speak, will overwhelm the project, for which there are already funds, which is why the complex will never be built.

Actually, there is soil under their fears, because Zelensky's administration has not given the green light lately to anything that is somehow connected with Russia. As was the case, for example, with the purchase of the Sputnik V vaccine.

On the other hand, the construction of the memorial is supported not only by the country's Jewish community, but also by many influential politicians and businessmen of the country. It should also not be forgotten that the torpedoing of the project may not be forgiven for Zelensky in Israel and the United States.

Therefore, the memorial complex in Babi Yar still has chances.

Comments

[NIKN]

Even commenting is disgusting, they comment for themselves ...

[Finches]

Poroshenko is difficult to understand, he himself is a purebred Jew, but he drowns for the Nazis - here is a renegade, and when our people come, 100% will stand in the forefront with a portrait of Putin, all wrapped in St. George's ribbon!

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: Finches

Poroshenko is difficult to understand, he himself is a purebred Jew, but he drowns for the Nazis - here is a renegade, and when our people come, 100% will stand in the forefront with a portrait of Putin, all wrapped in St. George's ribbon!

What nonsense. I have met him more than once. Why did Mr. Poroshenko become a Jew?

[Finches]

Who is he? Even if it is not written in his passport ... Although they say (in Ukraine itself) that he has an Israeli passport! However, recalling the famous saying about a crying Jew who found out that Waltzman-Ukrainian was born, then maybe you are right!

[Vladimir Mashkov]

Quote: Finches

Who is he? Even if it is not written in his passport ... Although they say (in Ukraine itself) that he has an Israeli passport! However, recalling the famous saying about a crying Jew who found out that Waltzman-Ukrainian was born, then maybe you are right!

Well, I laughed reading the comments here! The dispute between the naive and the crafty. Guys, you need to look NOT at the names, but at the photographs and cases! During my long life, I have encountered and worked with many people from all over the Union, including Jews. What surnames they did not wear! Everyone except the Koreans and the peoples of the North! All republics and nations of the USSR, but most often - Russians (which is understandable: the founding nation). He stopped being surprised even in his youth, when one familiar girl named Shats suddenly became Shavtsova. Naturalization and adaptability are characteristic of the ancient people. Today, however, almost no one hides their true nationality and are even proud of it and use it with considerable benefit.

Someone who is about to accuse me of anti-Semitism, nationalism, chauvinism and even Nazism / fascism disappoint: I am not only not an anti-Semite, I communicated and communicate with Jews quite calmly, but I also had and still have Jewish friends. Moreover, since my youth, I am an internationalist and I believe that there are no bad nations and peoples, but there are just bad and good people (the latter, unfortunately, are a minority). By the way, with the girl Natasha, who suddenly changed her surname, I continued to communicate in the same way as before, believing that it was her full right to decide what and how to do.

[xorek]

Quote: Finches

Who is he?

Waltzman ..

Quote: Finches

Even if it is not recorded in his passport ... Although they say (in Ukraine itself) that he has an Israeli passport! However, recalling the famous saying about a crying Jew who found out that Waltzman-Ukrainian was born, then maybe you are right!

Everything is so Evgeny and some do not like it all and jarring them ... But you can't argue with facts ...

[Egoza]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

What nonsense. I have met him more than once. Why did Mr. Poroshenko become a Jew?

Because the surname "Poroshenko" is the surname of his wife. And his surname at birth is Waltzman.

[Vladimir Mashkov]

But it is not a bit surprising that Poroshenko and Zelensky seem to be FOR the memorial in Babi Yar, and actually hinder and disrupt its creation! Why? Because they, according to Kolomoisky, zhidobanderovtsy! I emphasize for those who are going to accuse me of anti-Semitism: the definition is not mine, but Kolomoisky himself!

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Egoza

Because the surname "Poroshenko" is the surname of his wife. And his surname at birth is Waltzman.

His wife's surname is Perevedentseva, her father from Lipetsk was the Deputy Minister of Health of the Ukrainian SSR. And Poroshenko's grandmother's surname.

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: Egoza

Quote: Aron Zaavi

What nonsense. I have met him more than once. Why did Mr. Poroshenko become a Jew?

Because the surname "Poroshenko" is the surname of his wife. And his surname at birth is Waltzman.

What is this nonsense? Where did you dig it up?

[Puppeteer 111]

And these comrades have such a disease. At the word "Ukraine" the sphincters of the anus open sharply and everything that they absorbed before and did not partially digest flies

[Finches]

And he behaves like a pure Waltzman ... Why are you indignant? And where is the normal reaction of Israel to the nationalist fascist marches in Ukraine, the Baltic countries ...? I'll tell you why! Israel, the same litter of the United States as Ukraine, only with a higher status! I apologize for the truth that hurts my eyes!

[aybolyt678]

Quote: Finches

I apologize for the truth that hurts my eyes!

For the truth killed Always .... not their own so strangers. The truth is good when it's own.

[Finches]

Are you threatening ... or are you stating a fact?

[aybolyt678]

Quote: Finches

Are you threatening ... or are you stating a fact?

of course a fact. Truth is a castrated Truth, a set of facts convenient for arguing opinions, often ignoring inconvenient information. Therefore, everyone has their own truth. Your opinion is not convenient for everyone ...

[Metallurg_2]

Poroshenko's father is, according to some sources, a Moldovan Jew, Valtsman. Poroshenko took his last name from his wife.
However, in the late 90s, similar rumors were spread by the Barkashovites about Luzhkov, who is actually a nee Katz.

[A. Privalov]

Quote: Egoza

Because the surname "Poroshenko" is the surname of his wife. And his surname at birth is Waltzman.

His father is Alexei Ivanovich Poroshenko (1936-2020).

Mother - Evgenia Sergeevna Poroshenko (nee Grigorchuk; 1937-2004).

Wife - Marina Anatolyevna Poroshenko (nee Perevedentseva), daughter of Anatoly Mikhailovich Perevedentsev (13.03.1933/20.08.2020/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX), Deputy Minister of Health of the Ukrainian SSR.

[Egoza]

Quote: A. Privalov

His father is Alexei Ivanovich Poroshenko (1936-2020).

Mother - Evgenia Sergeevna Poroshenko (nee Grigorchuk; 1937-2004).

Oh, how beautifully they played! And if you look at earlier publications, and not the current ones, erased?

The new Ukrainian president, Petro Alekseevich Poroshenko, does not like to remember that he bears his mother's surname. His father, nee Alexei Valtsman, took the surname of his wife, Evgenia Sergeevna Poroshenko. The act is understandable: with the beginning of mass emigration to Israel, universities set unspoken quotas for the "fifth point", and in 1982 the prestigious faculty of international relations and international law of Kiev State University did not shine for Pete Waltzman. The current Ukrainian president does not like to remember his Jewish roots, he reacted very painfully, for example, to his inclusion by the Israeli Forbes in the list of the 165 richest Jews in the world. However, in fairness, we note that according to another version, Poroshenko Sr. changed his last name not before his son entered the university, but a little later, after he became a defendant in a criminal case.

On a June 1986 day, shocking news hit the family of the current Ukrainian president. On this day, a native of the village of Sofiany, Izmailovsky district, Odessa region of the Ukrainian SSR, Valtsman A.I., a Jew, a citizen of the USSR, expelled from the members of the CPSU in connection with a criminal case, having a higher education, liable for military service, married, who worked from September 26, 1977 to December 9, 1983 year director of the Bendery Experimental Repair Plant, was arrested and was under investigation awaiting a verdict. As Petro Poroshenko later described this period in his biography, "I was brought up by the absence of my father at home." The reason for the absence of the father was modestly silent.

Read more here - https://pub.wikireading.ru/45312

[A. Privalov]

Quote: Egoza

Read more here - https://pub.wikireading.ru/45312

You see, I would have believed it, but my great-grandfather bequeathed to be very careful with the words of those who shamelessly try to fool me that very place. And my great-grandfather was a dock in this. He served as a model for Faberge.

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: Egoza

Quote: A. Privalov

His father is Alexei Ivanovich Poroshenko (1936-2020).

Mother - Evgenia Sergeevna Poroshenko (nee Grigorchuk; 1937-2004).

Oh, how beautifully they played! And if you look at earlier publications, and not the current ones, erased?

The new Ukrainian president, Petro Alekseevich Poroshenko, does not like to remember that he bears his mother's surname. His father, nee Alexei Valtsman, took the surname of his wife, Evgenia Sergeevna Poroshenko. The act is understandable: with the beginning of mass emigration to Israel, universities set unspoken quotas for the "fifth point", and in 1982 the prestigious faculty of international relations and international law of Kiev State University did not shine for Pete Waltzman. The current Ukrainian president does not like to remember his Jewish roots, he reacted very painfully, for example, to his inclusion by the Israeli Forbes in the list of the 165 richest Jews in the world. However, in fairness, we note that according to another version, Poroshenko Sr. changed his last name not before his son entered the university, but a little later, after he became a defendant in a criminal case.

On a June 1986 day, shocking news hit the family of the current Ukrainian president. On this day, a native of the village of Sofiany, Izmailovsky district, Odessa region of the Ukrainian SSR, Valtsman A.I., a Jew, a citizen of the USSR, expelled from the members of the CPSU in connection with a criminal case, having a higher education, liable for military service, married, who worked from September 26, 1977 to December 9, 1983 year director of the Bendery Experimental Repair Plant, was arrested and was under investigation awaiting a verdict. As Petro Poroshenko later described this period in his biography, "I was brought up by the absence of my father at home." The reason for the absence of the father was modestly silent.

Read more here - https://pub.wikireading.ru/45312

Oh how. But how did the Soviet investigators fail to find out?
In the photo - the card of the prisoner Poroshenko Alexei Ivanovich, Ukrainian, born on June 11.06.1936, XNUMX.

[ghby]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

In the photo - the card of the prisoner Poroshenko Alexei Ivanovich, Ukrainian, born on June 11.06.1936, XNUMX.

a strange card in form I will not say anything, but in content, in the 86th they should have written a pre-trial detention center and not a prison. from the name of the prison in the 60s seemed to have moved away. Well, the Supreme Court of the MSSR why not the district / city is their jurisdiction. strange.

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: ghby

Quote: Aron Zaavi

In the photo - the card of the prisoner Poroshenko Alexei Ivanovich, Ukrainian, born on June 11.06.1936, XNUMX.

a strange card in form I will not say anything, but in content, in the 86th they should have written a pre-trial detention center and not a prison. from the name of the prison in the 60s seemed to have moved away. Well, the Supreme Court of the MSSR why not the district / city is their jurisdiction.

The devil knows them. Maybe the old man filled in what.

[ghby]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

The devil knows them. Maybe the old man filled in what.

not. in the name of such establishments, even more so in the card they are not mistaken.

[Normal ok]

Quote: Egoza

Quote: A. Privalov

His father is Alexei Ivanovich Poroshenko (1936-2020).

Mother - Evgenia Sergeevna Poroshenko (nee Grigorchuk; 1937-2004).

Oh, how beautifully they played! And if you look at earlier publications, and not the current ones, erased?

The new Ukrainian president, Petro Alekseevich Poroshenko, does not like to remember that he bears his mother's surname. His father, nee Alexei Valtsman, took the surname of his wife, Evgenia Sergeevna Poroshenko. The act is understandable: with the beginning of mass emigration to Israel, universities set unspoken quotas for the "fifth point", and in 1982 the prestigious faculty of international relations and international law of Kiev State University did not shine for Pete Waltzman. The current Ukrainian president does not like to remember his Jewish roots, he reacted very painfully, for example, to his inclusion by the Israeli Forbes in the list of the 165 richest Jews in the world. However, in fairness, we note that according to another version, Poroshenko Sr. changed his last name not before his son entered the university, but a little later, after he became a defendant in a criminal case.

On a June 1986 day, shocking news hit the family of the current Ukrainian president. On this day, a native of the village of Sofiany, Izmailovsky district, Odessa region of the Ukrainian SSR, Valtsman A.I., a Jew, a citizen of the USSR, expelled from the members of the CPSU in connection with a criminal case, having a higher education, liable for military service, married, who worked from September 26, 1977 to December 9, 1983 year director of the Bendery Experimental Repair Plant, was arrested and was under investigation awaiting a verdict. As Petro Poroshenko later described this period in his biography, "I was brought up by the absence of my father at home." The reason for the absence of the father was modestly silent.

Read more here - https://pub.wikireading.ru/45312

This is utter nonsense, do not change your surname, but the 5th column (there was one in the Soviet passport, it was called "nationality") will not change from this. And they checked everyone who was allowed to work abroad.

[Alexeevich0010]

A.I. Valtsman, a Jew, a citizen of the USSR, was born in the village of Sofiany, Izmailovsky District, Odessa Region, Ukrainian SSR.

[A. Privalov]

Quote: Alexeevich0010

A.I. Valtsman, a Jew, a citizen of the USSR, was born in the village of Sofiany, Izmailovsky District, Odessa Region, Ukrainian SSR.

The maiden name of his wife, Perevedentsev.

[Egoza]

Quote: Egoza

Because the surname "Poroshenko" is the surname of his wife

Sorry, his mother's last name.

[A. Privalov]

Quote: Egoza

Sorry, his mother's last name.

His mother's maiden name is Grigorchuk.

[Alexeevich0010]

Valtsman A.I.-aka Poroshenko A.I.-his dad. So truncated right

[Krasnodar]

Quote: Egoza

Quote: Aron Zaavi

What nonsense. I have met him more than once. Why did Mr. Poroshenko become a Jew?

Because the surname "Poroshenko" is the surname of his wife. And his surname at birth is Waltzman.

And his grandfather is Ivan Evdokimovich Valtsman Enough to carry this nonsense, introduced with the light hand of one of the best friends of Russia Tyagnibok, Ukrainian Gunpowder, Ukrainian, and there is only Jewish in him a judo coach

[Avior]

You have lagged behind life. ... :))) Everything was invented for a long time before us :)

Media investigations point to Tyagnibok's Jewish roots. The pedigree of politics is rich in common Jewish surnames. His grandmother was named Frotman. As you know, Jewish nationality is passed on through the mother. The grandfather was also from Jews, his name was Lionin Tsegelsky, his real name was Tsegel.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.znaj.ua/ru/dossier/119-oleg-tyagnibok-dosye-i-biografiya

[Krasnodar]

Frotman is good, where do they get such "Jewish" surnames from?

[The leader of the Redskins]

Excuse me, but isn't there a memorial in Babi Yar ?!
After all, I myself once walked there and saw figures, a pink granite pedestal, a gypsy wagon aside, some slabs with inscriptions in Hebrew.
Or am I behind the times and decided to finish building something else?

[Avior]

There are several monuments there

On the territory of the Babi Yar tract there are such monuments as a monument to children who were shot at Babi Yar, the Menorah, a monument to the Ostarbeiters, a Gypsy wagon, sculptures in honor of Elena Teliga and Tatyana Markus. A monument to the victims of Babi Yar is also erected on Kirillovskaya Street, it is also called the monument to Tolik Kuznetsov. not far from the territory of Babi Yar, there is also a monument to Dynamo Kiev footballers who were shot during the Nazi occupation of Kiev.

[Alex Justice]

And his surname at birth is Waltzman.

Poroshenko's father, Oleksij Poroshenko [de; uk; ru] (1936–2020 [11]), was an engineer and later government official who managed multiple factories during the Soviet rule in Ukraine. Little is known about his mother Yevguenia Serguéievna Grigorchuk (1937-2004)
Poroshenko's father, mother Grigorchuk. There is not a word about the Poroshenko nation in WIKI.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

What nonsense. I have met him more than once. Why did Mr. Poroshenko become a Jew?

One born of "shiksa" cannot be purebred.

[Shiva83483]

that is, the surname Valtsman does not say anything?

[figwam]

Quote: Finches

Poroshenko is hard to understand

This one will put on a budenovka if necessary.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: figvam

This one will put on a budenovka if necessary.

As well as a uniform with a swastika.

[Ros 56]

Never mind, we will take off the tape and wrap it with barbed wire and live with it to a depth of 2 m. In my opinion, the pig did not squeal like that when it was on meat .........

[Normal ok]

Quote: Finches

Poroshenko is difficult to understand, he himself is a purebred Jew, but he drowns for the Nazis - here is a renegade, and when our people come, 100% will stand in the forefront with a portrait of Putin, all wrapped in St. George's ribbon!

So "Strana.yua" is still a fake resource.

[Alex Justice]

when our people come, 100% will stand in the forefront with a portrait of Putin, all wrapped in St. George's ribbon!

And the anthem of the USSR will play on the piano.

[Ros 56]

Nobody knows what will happen tomorrow, but you predict the future? I wonder how.

[iouris]

A memorial is needed. But first, the existing Nazi regime must be overthrown. This is only possible as a result of a military operation. Any funding before the overthrow of this regime is a crime against morality and ethics.

[Cananecat]

Quote: iouris

But first, the existing Nazi regime must be overthrown.

By whom and when were they overthrown? At the moment, the V / NA does not have a force capable of resisting Ukrainian fascism and will not exist for a long time ... unfortunately.
We do not take the republics into account, they will not go over to the offensive soon either ...

[iouris]

Quote: Canecat

there is no force capable of resisting Ukrainian fascism and will not exist for a long time ...

Then get ready for it to spill over here.

[xorek]

Quote: iouris

A memorial is needed. But first, the existing Nazi regime must be overthrown.

And hang the top for the edification of descendants and then, having bowed his head, open the memorial and ask for forgiveness.

[Egoza]

"Memorial is needed"

So, monuments have already been erected there, even during the Soviet era.

"Monument to Soviet citizens and prisoners of war soldiers and officers of the Soviet army, shot by the German invaders in Babi Yar" is a multi-figured composition made of bronze. Opened July 2, 1976. "Menorah in Babi Yar" - a memorial to the executed Jews in the form of a menorah. "

But the new one will not be installed in any way, tk. they are afraid that both of them (Poroshenko and Shchelensky) will be buried there.

[xorek]

Quote: Egoza

But the new one will not be installed in any way, tk. they are afraid that both of them (Poroshenko and Shchelensky) will be buried there.

As compensation and forgiveness for creating a Nazi state

Hang Kravchuk first.!

[knn54]

- and money from the budget is not needed for this.
Well, how can you live without a "cut"?
P., S And the fact that the daughter-in-law of Peter Alekseevich from St. Petersburg was somehow "forgotten" ...

[dimy44]

The Jew Poroshenko is at one with the nationalists. Stop the Earth ...

[Ros 56]

And what's so strange, they are not the first Judas on Earth, they are not the last.

[Krasnodar]

Quote: dimy44

The Jew Poroshenko is at one with the nationalists. Stop the Earth ...

Yes, his Grandfather, Ivan Evdokimovich Valtsman, turns over in his grave

[xorek]

It is strange of course all this, the Jews Waltzman and Zelensky are against this memorial ..
Well, the Bandera supporters were understandable, those Nazi henchmen were clearly there and they were obviously helping the Fritzes in the destruction ... In the days of the USSR, if someone told me that this would happen in Ukraine who lost so many lives, I would not hesitate to load it in

[Vladimir Mashkov]

In vain you. After all, they wrote (with citing data) that there were Jews in the ranks of the Nazis. The truth is only a few, unlike traitors of other nationalities.

[xorek]

Quote: Vladimir Mashkov

In vain you. After all, they wrote (with citing data) that there were Jews in the ranks of the Nazis.

Secretive, and even Hitler has something about the problem ..))))
And I'm not in vain, Nazism blooms in a stormy color in Ukraine and the "world community" is silent ... And Hitler appeared in Europe not just out of nowhere, this is the result of the policy of European countries and now it is starting again. They consider themselves exceptional and "highly developed", and the rest are like that ..
We need to talk about this and loudly otherwise it will be too late and instead of Jews and Gypsies, Russians may already be targets of destruction. I'm talking about that!

[boris epstein]

No hidden ones. Field Marshal of the Luftwaffe Erich Milch, commander of the battleship "Bismarck" Admiral Lutyens, and another 40% of the officers of the Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine. And nobody touched them.
German Jews were and are called mishlinge. When, when Hitler came to power, Jewish pogroms began, the mishlinges, who fought in the Kaiser's army and had awards for the First World War, protested and then the repressions narrowed and became targeted - they repressed average Jewish businessmen with confiscation of property, socialists. anarchists. communists, mentally disabled.

[Ros 56]

Yes, bury the giblets with its Natsiks there, so as not to interfere.

[cat Rusich]

Quote: Ros 56

Yes, bury the giblets with its Natsiks there, so as not to interfere.

Do not insult the memory of the innocent.
Here in the latrine is the very thing ...

[Puppeteer 111]

The press denotes plurals, and this is an online publication. In addition, oriented against Gunpowder))) Again supernews on VO.

[Nurdom.]

What did the memorial displease them with?

[Vladimir Mashkov]

Quote: Nurdom

What did the memorial displease them with?

He did not "please" them in any way. But to those on whom they rely today - Bandera - he very I DO NOT like it for obvious reasons. Therefore, they today "vs". Known national adaptability and immediate benefits. With the change of power, they will violently oppose their current "against"!

[Nurdom.]

Quote: Vladimir Mashkov

Quote: Nurdom

What did the memorial displease them with?

He did not "please" them in any way. But to those on whom they rely today - Bandera - he very I DO NOT like it for obvious reasons. Therefore, they today "vs". Known national adaptability and immediate benefits. With the change of power, they will violently oppose their current "against"!

Some kind of sur. Bandera these days, only marginals still continue to whitewash. Who does Poroshenko rely on?

[Vladimir Mashkov]

Quote: Nurdom

Some kind of sur. Bandera these days, only marginals still continue to whitewash. Who does Poroshenko rely on?

It relies on them. Where are you from, so NOT informed? Have you just brought the Internet to the taiga / desert? Or are you from another planet?

[boris epstein]

For a simple reason. Among those who shot at Babi Yar were Ukrainian nationalists - Bukovynsky kuren (battalion). Of the 1500 who shot, 1200 were Ukronationalists. Somehow it doesn't turn out very nicely. If you put up a memorial, then you need to remember those WHO shot them. And among the shot there were not only Jews, but Soviet prisoners of war of all nationalities of the USSR.

[Nurdom.]

Quote: Vladimir Mashkov

Quote: Nurdom

Some kind of sur. Bandera these days, only marginals still continue to whitewash. Who does Poroshenko rely on?

It relies on them. Where are you from, so NOT informed? Have you just brought the Internet to the taiga / desert? Or are you from another planet?

I'm from a drug addiction clinic. Four years on no contact. Sorry if something is wrong.