Military Review

In the USA: Precision Strike missile breaks range record during tests

171

The Pentagon said that when performing firing at the White Sands training ground in New Mexico, a record was broken during the tests of one of the missiles. It is reportedly a Precision Strike (PrSM) missile.


It is alleged that the PrSM set a record for a similar class of missiles in terms of range, covering a distance of about 400 km.

Lockheed Martin's Vice President for Precision Weapons G. Campbell:

The Precision Strike rocket was fired from a high mobility launcher. She hit the target with the expected accuracy. At the same time, the characteristics were confirmed in terms of flight modes, range and accuracy, as well as the level of lethality (destructive force) of the warhead.

It is noted that the possibility of integrating the Precision Strike tactical missile with the installation of a multiple launch rocket system (MLRS) HIMARS has been confirmed. These MLRSs were designed for 227 mm caliber and have been in service with the US Army since 2005.

Previously, the ATACMS Block IIA missile, which was in development for a long time, was called the long-range option for HIMARS. Its planned range is about 300 km. If you believe the statements of representatives of the above American company, the version of the Precision Strike rocket significantly exceeded this distance.

It should be noted that previously Precision Strike passed three stages of testing. In these tests, the rocket showed the following distances when hitting a target: 85, 180 and 240 km.

This missile is being developed as part of a program to replace the army's tactical missile systems. The Pentagon plans to get a missile with a maximum range of 499 km. Why exactly such a value, similar to a store price tag?

The fact is that missiles with a range exceeding 499 km already belong to the class of intermediate and shorter-range missiles. When development began, the United States was still in the INF Treaty. However, now, after withdrawing from the treaty, the Americans can increase the range of ground-based missile weapons.

According to G. Campbell, the rocket can pass all stages of testing by the third or fourth quarters of 2021.

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  1. Russobel
    Russobel 13 May 2021 06: 56
    -8
    having covered a distance of about 400 km.

    How about it, and where are the comrades with the roulette from the Guinness Book of Records ?!
    She also hit the target about ...
    1. Volodin
      Volodin 13 May 2021 07: 10
      +13
      Quote: Russobel
      How about it, and where are the comrades with the roulette from the Guinness Book of Records ?!
      She also hit the target about ...

      It's all just about the word "about". The American report says 250 miles. In order not to force readers to convert miles into familiar km themselves, the text uses what is used (about 400 km)
      1. Russobel
        Russobel 13 May 2021 08: 33
        -6
        Let 250 miles be used, and I'll translate it myself if I see fit.
        1. Volodin
          Volodin 13 May 2021 09: 25
          +4
          Quote: Russobel
          Let 250 miles be used, and I will translate it myself if I deem it necessary

          Well, if this is so important for you, you can read it exactly as 250 miles))
        2. Graz
          Graz 13 May 2021 10: 42
          -3
          we do not care what you think is necessary, give us km
  2. Ka-52
    Ka-52 13 May 2021 06: 56
    +6
    Precision Strike Breaks Range Record During Test

    Well, it broke the range record only among the US PTRC. The author writes somehow lopsidedly.
    Precision Strike with the installation of a multiple launch rocket system (MLRS) HIMARS

    here, many uninformed people may confuse an unguided multiple launch rocket system and an operatively tactical ballistic missile.
    1. Cananecat
      Cananecat 13 May 2021 07: 12
      -7
      Quote: Ka-52
      here, many uninformed people may confuse an unguided multiple launch rocket system and an operatively tactical ballistic missile.

      As if yes ... at first impression:
      Well 400 and 400, what's so remarkable about that? Run from the mountain, because it is like that Zaporozhets, and faster and further ... but for the Americans, this is apparently a serious achievement if they decide to write about it ...
    2. Volodin
      Volodin 13 May 2021 07: 12
      +8
      Quote: Ka-52
      Well, it broke the range record only among the US PTRC. The author writes somehow lopsidedly.

      Everyone can accuse the author of lopsidedness))) But to read the whole text and understand what kind of rocket we are talking about, "not only everyone" can))
      1. Ka-52
        Ka-52 13 May 2021 07: 17
        +4
        But to read the whole text and understand what kind of rocket we are talking about, "not only everyone" can))

        judging by the comments of fellow commentators, they did not succeed. TK have already begun to compare the Precision Strike with the 9M542 of our RZSO "Tornado" laughing
    3. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 13 May 2021 07: 14
      +4
      Quote: Ka-52
      many uninformed people may confuse an unguided multiple launch rocket system with an operational tactical ballistic missile.

      Alas! These, once different concepts, are now becoming more and more difficult to distinguish!
  3. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 13 May 2021 07: 02
    +5
    The range is impressive. As far as I understand, the ammunition is corrected, apparently, by GPS. It is unpleasant that a potential enemy has such missiles in multiple launch rocket systems.
    1. Egoza
      Egoza 13 May 2021 07: 07
      -1
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      The range is impressive.

      I hope that ours have something to answer
      1. Mountain shooter
        Mountain shooter 13 May 2021 07: 11
        +4
        Quote: Egoza
        impressive.

        I hope that ours have something to answer

        The Smerch has a range of up to 120 km. And then with special ammunition. Iskander only. But I think this is the next weight category.
      2. SovAr238A
        SovAr238A 13 May 2021 07: 22
        +10
        Quote: Egoza
        I hope that ours have something to answer


        It is strange that a participant in a forum of a military-technical plan, who "caught the plus" to the level of a "marshal", turns out to know nothing about military equipment and its modern level ...

        Which once again shows the "order" for the umpteenth time.
        1. Egoza
          Egoza 13 May 2021 08: 00
          +1
          Quote: SovAr238A

          It is strange that a participant in a forum of a military-technical plan, who "caught the plus" to the level of a "marshal", turns out to know nothing about military equipment and its modern level ...

          Not a single person knows everything about everything, including you.
          For example, what do you know about military translation techniques?

          Quote: SovAr238A
          Which once again shows the "order" for the umpteenth time.

          You've only been on the site for two years, and I've been on the site for eight. You will write articles, often express your opinion, if the forum users like all this, you will get even more pluses than me.
          1. SovAr238A
            SovAr238A 13 May 2021 14: 29
            +2
            Quote: Egoza

            You've only been on the site for two years, and I've been on the site for eight. You will write articles, often express your opinion, if the forum users like all this, you will get even more pluses than me.


            I have been on the site since 2012 ...
            And I always express my opinion, as in this case.
            I don't give a damn about the plus signs and titles ...
            But when I see complete cognition - to be on a military-technical forum and carry such nonsense and also be proud of it - is nonsense for me ..
        2. novel66
          novel66 13 May 2021 08: 08
          -2
          shows the "order" for the umpteenth time.

          itching and not sleeping?
          1. Pete mitchell
            Pete mitchell 13 May 2021 09: 19
            +6
            Quote: novel xnumx
            Quote: SovAr238A
            shows the "order" for the umpteenth time.

            itching and not sleeping?

            Probably bored, so it is - to the admins: so they say and so: I miss, return repeat
            1. novel66
              novel66 13 May 2021 10: 34
              +1
              so, they would be happy, it was so convenient, Tramp, hello hi
          2. SovAr238A
            SovAr238A 13 May 2021 14: 30
            -1
            Quote: novel xnumx
            shows the "order" for the umpteenth time.

            itching and not sleeping?


            What? A member of the Order? Is your honor hurt?

            Well, I do not live in Moscow, in my time the "7.22" shown on the site is not morning at all ...
        3. Mountain shooter
          Mountain shooter 13 May 2021 08: 41
          +1
          Quote: SovAr238A

          Which once again shows the "order" for the umpteenth time

          Got it already, spiteful critic. Get out of sight. I am the captain of the reserve. Artilleryman. He is also a physicist and author of many books. Tell me something about yourself, a connoisseur of everything and everyone? And also a judge and a teacher?
          1. novel66
            novel66 13 May 2021 10: 37
            +2
            Eugene, stand !!!! I have a question that only an artilleryman can answer!
            from the school physics course, we know that in order to obtain maximum range, the gun barrel must be raised 45 degrees.
            always wondered if this is so in reality ???
            1. Mountain shooter
              Mountain shooter 13 May 2021 13: 46
              +4
              Quote: novel xnumx
              the implement must be raised 45 degrees.
              always wondered if this is so in reality ???

              Close, but not quite. Air resistance must be taken into account. At an angle of 45 degrees, the projectile flies a longer path in the denser layers of the atmosphere, and it is more profitable to launch it at a higher angle, so that it would sooner reach the more rarefied layers and make the main path there. Therefore, on large calibers, the barrels are lifted above 45 degrees. The "meteorological average" is taken into account, this is the forecast and the state of the atmosphere in height, the temperature of the layers, the direction and speed of winds at different heights. And all this in time trouble, in a notebook, and often in the wind and rain ... Personally, I was lucky, I am an anti-tank gunner, and mostly direct fire. But it came from the T-12 and from closed positions ... although the cannon's elevation angle was not at all howitzer. and the trajectory of the projectiles is not high. But they taught everything ...
              1. novel66
                novel66 13 May 2021 15: 37
                +3
                thank you very much! hi
          2. SovAr238A
            SovAr238A 13 May 2021 14: 34
            -1
            Quote: Mountain Shooter
            Quote: SovAr238A

            Which once again shows the "order" for the umpteenth time

            Got it already, spiteful critic. Get out of sight. I am the captain of the reserve. Artilleryman. He is also a physicist and author of many books. Tell me something about yourself, a connoisseur of everything and everyone? And also a judge and a teacher?


            Go to the mirror - and say many more times ...
            reserve captain, author of many books ???
            Can I have at least one ISBN code for a published book?

            Well, to understand who is so super important here, And the captain of the artillery, and the physicist and the writer to boot ...

            somehow the owl does not climb the globe in any way ...
            1. Mountain shooter
              Mountain shooter 13 May 2021 15: 46
              +1
              In exchange for your incognito, I'll open mine. Books are specialty, so I don't count as a writer. The rest is all true.
        4. Mouse
          Mouse 13 May 2021 09: 10
          +6
          Quote: SovAr238A

          Which once again shows the "order" for the umpteenth time.

          The order lived, the order lives ... the order will live! bully
          1. novel66
            novel66 13 May 2021 10: 37
            +3
            underground ?? Hi, Vasya! hi
            1. Mouse
              Mouse 13 May 2021 10: 42
              +4
              ours to you! hi
              so often it is mentioned that you involuntarily believe in its existence! yes
              The Order rules! wassat
              1. novel66
                novel66 13 May 2021 10: 53
                +4
                oo! here it is even more difficult - when an idea takes possession of the masses - it becomes a reality
                The thought is material
                1. Mouse
                  Mouse 13 May 2021 10: 57
                  +4
                  what's so difficult? do not like the comment, remember the order in vain, but there was, was not .... how can you prove it? belay
                  1. novel66
                    novel66 13 May 2021 11: 01
                    +4
                    exactly, the enemy of the people - and that's all, Pavliks Morozov
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. venik
        venik 13 May 2021 11: 57
        0
        Quote: Egoza
        I hope that ours have something to answer

        ========
        And what about Iskander?
        In addition, just a few days ago, a message was passed at VO that NPO Splav is working on equipping Tornado-S shells with optoelectronic seeker, which will make it possible to turn the MLRS into a high-precision RTRK.
    2. Ka-52
      Ka-52 13 May 2021 07: 11
      +14
      a potential adversary has such missiles in multiple launch rocket systems.

      this missile has nothing to do with the multiple launch rocket system. In this case, Hymans serves only as a location for the container with OTP. There is only one plus - the unification of the PU and that's it. The Americans will not be able to fire volleys with this missile, since only one container is placed on the installation. The Iskander OTRK is distinguished by a specialized mobile launcher. But Iskander has a higher range
      judging by your comment you have confirmed my statement above
      here, many uninformed people may confuse an unguided multiple launch rocket system and an operatively tactical ballistic missile.
      1. Hagen
        Hagen 13 May 2021 08: 27
        +3
        Quote: Ka-52
        this missile has nothing to do with the multiple launch rocket system.

        Probably, the problem is that we are trying to integrate any innovation in weapons into the habitually existing classification. The M142 HIMARS is really a multiple launch rocket launcher. However, given that each ammunition will receive an autopilot with inertial navigation and satellite guidance, with the help of which it will be possible to attack targets with known coordinates (in any case, as declared). After entering service in 2023, a planned 2021 upgrade called Spiral One will include a multimode seeker in 2026-2027 with radar (likely active) with the ability to focus on radio frequency radiation from land and maritime radars and an infrared imaging mode for impact at certain points. It can be assumed that the need for firing in one gulp will disappear as unnecessary, because the goal is to hit the object with one missile.
        Quote: Ka-52
        The Americans will not be able to fire volleys with this missile, since only one container is placed on the installation.

        It should be borne in mind that by reducing the caliber of the rocket from 0,61 m to 0 m, instead of two missiles, they put 47 of them in a package. It can also be assumed that a rocket with a light warhead of 6 kg was fired at the maximum range (there is also a heavy one - 90 kg, for Iskander - under half a ton). In any case, this missile can be compared with Iskander at a stretch and only in terms of range. And so, I do not see a direct analogue of this complex in our armament. Can someone fix it?
        1. OgnennyiKotik
          OgnennyiKotik 13 May 2021 08: 41
          +6
          You are a little confused. For MLRS and HIMARS, there are 2 types of packages, in the variant of MLRS and OTP.


          Specifically, the article talks about OTP PrSM, which is replacing ATACMS. There will be 2 of them in the package instead of one.

          1. Hagen
            Hagen 13 May 2021 09: 06
            +1
            Quote: OgnennyiKotik
            There will be 2 of them in the package instead of one.

            While the system is still being developed, its final version may be somewhat different than the initial assumptions, especially based on information from VO. I've seen sketches with exactly 6 instead of 2 in one package. But I will not argue, let's see what will come out for military trials, if it comes to them and something is poured into the media.
            1. OgnennyiKotik
              OgnennyiKotik 13 May 2021 09: 09
              0
              I am writing information from the developer, slides from their presentation. In the MLRS version, yes, in the package of 6 missiles, Lockheed is also developing new missiles GMLRS... Maybe they got confused with them.

              Extended Range Controlled MLRS (ER): A new modification of the family of controlled MLRS, the ER GMLRS offers an extended range of up to 150 kilometers in all weather conditions. The ER GMLRS has significant affinity with the legacy controlled MLRS and is being deployed by HIMARS and the MLRS M270 family of launchers. The shells are equipped with a more powerful engine and have increased maneuverability thanks to the tail control.

              https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/products/guided-mlrs-unitary-rocket.html
        2. Ka-52
          Ka-52 13 May 2021 08: 43
          +5
          In any case, this missile can be compared with Iskander at a stretch and only in terms of range.

          there is a clear division into a rocket (RZSO system) and a ballistic missile. Although the principle of flight is similar, they are classified as different weapons. Therefore, attempts to put a sign between them = is a profanation. As far as I remember, Raytheon themselves designates PrSM as an OTR, and not as an RZSO projectile
          The range parameter is one of the main ones for the classification of such ammunition: short, medium and long range.
          1. Hagen
            Hagen 13 May 2021 09: 13
            -3
            Quote: Ka-52
            there is a clear division into a rocket (RZSO system) and a ballistic missile.

            I am not a specialist in MLRS and BR, but I think that as soon as the MLRS projectile receives individual control of the flight path, it goes from the MLRS projectile category to ballistic and at the appropriate range, with a certain power, becomes an operational-tactical weapon. If you are an expert on this issue, your expert explanations are ready to be accepted.
            1. Ka-52
              Ka-52 13 May 2021 12: 53
              +3
              that as soon as the MLRS projectile receives individual control of the flight path, it goes from the MLRS projectile category to ballistic and at the appropriate range, with a certain power, becomes an operational-tactical weapon

              you are not right. RZSO shells in some modifications (like our 9M542) can be adjusted on the flight path. There is a variant of extended-range rockets. But they all remain shells and have nothing to do with operational tactical missiles.
              1. Hagen
                Hagen 13 May 2021 13: 27
                -1
                Quote: Ka-52
                RZSO shells in some modifications (like our 9M542) can be adjusted on the flight path. .... But they all remain shells

                I disagree with your arguments. The essence of the MLRS is to cover the area a salvo of shells, taking into account the size of the dispersion ellipse. There is no need to send the entire bk to the "window" (to one point). At the same time, any missile flying along a ballistic trajectory is "ballistic", but an uncorrectable MLRS rocket ammunition will simply be a special case of a ballistic missile. In artillery, as far as I know, point and area targets are quite clearly distinguished. In accordance with this, an order is made for research and development work on ammunition for it, and all the accompanying elements, including the terminological order. And I asked for an expert opinion from you, meaning by this a normative document securing an appropriate definition for a specific product. Therefore, in order to prove that I am wrong, be so kind as to present a document from GRAU, for example.
                1. Ka-52
                  Ka-52 13 May 2021 13: 33
                  +1
                  And I asked for an expert opinion from you, meaning by this a normative document securing an appropriate definition for a specific product. Therefore, in order to prove that I am wrong, be so kind as to present a document from GRAU, for example.

                  9K55 - MLRS "Grad-1"
                  9K57 - MLRS "Uragan"
                  9K58 - MLRS "Smerch"
                  9K59 - MLRS "Prima"

                  9K711 - operational-tactical missile system "Uranus"
                  9K714 - operational-tactical missile system "Oka"
                  9K720 - tactical missile system "Tender"
                  ("Iskander")

                  GRAU is not a document, let alone an agency, but an alphanumeric designation
                  I disagree with your arguments.

                  and what does Krasnopol refer to? Also to OTP according to your classification?
                  1. Hagen
                    Hagen 13 May 2021 18: 54
                    -2
                    Quote: Ka-52
                    GRAU is not a document, much less an agency

                    The Main Missile and Artillery Directorate of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation (GRAU of the Ministry of Defense of Russia) is a structural formation (military command body) of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation. Well, in all other respects - missed the mark.
                    1. Ka-52
                      Ka-52 14 May 2021 04: 41
                      +2
                      The Main Missile and Artillery Directorate of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation (GRAU of the Ministry of Defense of Russia) is a structural formation (military command body) of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation.

                      there the word "index" was lost. But the meaning is the same: Index GRAU is not a document, no matter how hard you try to prove otherwise. You asked for a product designation - I sent it to you. Specific product index. Do not agree - refute. Open the 9th section of the classifier and quote. And any fool will be able to hum "niveyu". There are people like you and a small cart
                      1. Hagen
                        Hagen 14 May 2021 08: 47
                        -1
                        Quote: Ka-52
                        there the word "index" was lost. But the meaning is the same: the GRAU Index is not a document, no matter how hard you try to prove the opposite.

                        Refresh the question before reading the answer. This is what normal people usually do. Then you would not have doubts about "losses". I did not ask you about the designations, I asked if you can document your statements, and nothing more. Considering that cows seem to you as opponents (it is obviously more convenient for you to communicate with them), then I remove all questions to you. Sorry for wasting time.
                2. Ka-52
                  Ka-52 13 May 2021 14: 14
                  +2
                  At the same time, any missile flying along a ballistic trajectory is "ballistic", but an uncorrectable MLRS rocket ammunition will simply be a special case of a ballistic missile

                  I remember a similar dispute was about hypersonic weapons. then the terminology was still a novelty and sometimes absurd, but logical questions sounded: "is BOPS a hypersonic weapon?" )) from the point of view of physical laws - yes. In the conventional wisdom, of course not.
                  It just reminded me.
                  1. Hagen
                    Hagen 13 May 2021 18: 58
                    0
                    Quote: Ka-52
                    I remember a similar dispute was about hypersonic weapons.

                    You can argue in VO about anything. But a position supported by a document is always more confident. You don't have that. And conventional wisdom is just an opinion ...
                    1. Ka-52
                      Ka-52 14 May 2021 04: 53
                      +2
                      But a position supported by a document is always more confident. You don't have that.

                      I wonder how much I read your comments, but in none did not see any attached document, source link or specific classifier. Your opinion is supported only by speculative conclusions from the category of "finger to the sky".
                      And conventional wisdom is just an opinion ...

                      but you do not even operate with the generally accepted. Have invented something of their own. It is commendable, but so far this is just speculation, nothing more. But pathos is pathos ...
                      1. Hagen
                        Hagen 14 May 2021 09: 09
                        0
                        Quote: Ka-52
                        I wonder how much I read your comments, but in none of them I saw a single attached document,

                        Starting the conversation with you, I told you that I am not an expert, but I think .... You answered me that I was wrong. So you will prove where I am wrong. With proof, you are not very ... And by your tone I understand that a normal discussion is not to your taste. For this, I say goodbye.
                      2. Ka-52
                        Ka-52 14 May 2021 10: 29
                        +3
                        Starting the conversation with you, I told you that I am not an expert, but I think .... You answered me that I was wrong. So you will prove where I am wrong.

                        great excuse good ... Write your opinion, deny someone else's, ask for evidence, sweep aside other people's arguments with a sour face of "nivery", and then, with an air of offended dignity, will retire .... we must also adopt such tactics.
                      3. Hagen
                        Hagen 14 May 2021 10: 33
                        -1
                        Quote: Ka-52
                        Write your own opinion, deny someone else's, ask for evidence,

                        You are probably not fluent in Russian ... There is a difference between "disagree" and "you are wrong." But, obviously, you do not know ... that is why you attribute to me what I did not utter.
                      4. Ka-52
                        Ka-52 14 May 2021 11: 13
                        +2
                        You, probably, do not own well Russian ...

                        syntactically "ideal" sentence laughing
                        apparently your
                        I told you that I am not an expert

                        refers not only to artillery, but also to the Russian language.
                        but it's all lyrics. And the asset is the following:
                        - I argued that the missile system RZSO has nothing to do with operational-tactical missiles (OTR). With some kind of fright you say the opposite.
                        - I argued that a missile system of missile defense systems, even corrected, is not an operational-tactical missile (OTR). With some kind of fright you say the opposite.
                        - I indicated the GRAU indices for the RZSO and OTP systems, in which (according to the classifier) ​​the name of the weapon is clearly indicated. You answered with the next "niver". Although what is easier, they would open the classifier and move their nose there. Or have forgotten how to read?
                        - I referred to the PrSM manufacturer, who indicated his missile as an operational-tactical one, and not as an MLRS ammunition. It flew through your head without touching your brain.
                        As a result, your insulted great dignity and I, in shock from the ongoing empty dispute what
                      5. Hagen
                        Hagen 14 May 2021 13: 47
                        -3
                        Quote: Ka-52
                        I am shocked

                        I've already said goodbye to you. You did not understand? Why are you driving me empty here that I haven’t said? I did not assert anything to you, and did not point out that you were wrong. I said I disagree with you. I have the right. It was you who decided to correct me without proof, and not I you. And if you see something unwritten while reading, then this is not my problem. Everything. Bye.
                      6. Soho
                        Soho 17 May 2021 04: 28
                        -1
                        What are you turning on the armored front? What more proof do you need if the coding system for weapons and their components clearly says: this is a missile defense system, and this is an OTRK? This is a projectile for RZSO, and this is OTR. And where do you come from like that ?! You don't know nikhren - why are you getting into an argument?
                      7. Hagen
                        Hagen 17 May 2021 07: 37
                        -2
                        Quote: Soho
                        What are you turning on the armored front?

                        Your opinion in this tone is not interesting at all ... I have not asked you what to include ... You yourself are not distinguished by deep knowledge.
                      8. Soho
                        Soho 17 May 2021 10: 37
                        -1
                        Well, in what way did you install it? Did you see my VUS and service life by the avatar? Well then, with such a gift for psychics on TNT, there is a direct road.
                      9. Hagen
                        Hagen 17 May 2021 14: 01
                        -1
                        Quote: Soho
                        Well, in what way did you install it?

                        If you somehow want to enter the discussion sideways, take the trouble to start doing it correctly, politely, without boorish familiarity.
                      10. Soho
                        Soho 19 May 2021 06: 36
                        -1
                        I have already read how you are disskutiruesh and I have no desire to step on the same rake as my colleague K52. I specifically asked you a question and did not receive an answer. I don’t know what to discuss with you. I don't have time for your blablabla
  • Usher
    Usher 13 May 2021 09: 17
    +1
    The M142 HIMARS is really a multiple launch rocket launcher.
    the base from her, and the role is completely different. This does not make her MLRS, the goals and role are the same as that of Iskander.
    1. Intruder
      Intruder 13 May 2021 10: 10
      -2
      Iskander.
      Hmm, so this complex carries, how many missiles are on the launcher !? and how much operational ammunition on HIMARS (e) !? That's the difference ... both in classification and in purpose ... wink
      1. Usher
        Usher 13 May 2021 11: 25
        0
        Quote: Intruder
        Iskander.
        Hmm, so this complex carries, how many missiles are on the launcher !? and how much operational ammunition on HIMARS (e) !? That's the difference ... both in classification and in purpose ... wink

        Well, the weight of the warhead is different. And the role is one.
  • OgnennyiKotik
    OgnennyiKotik 13 May 2021 09: 39
    -3
    Quote: Hagen
    Probably, the problem is that we are trying to integrate any innovation in weapons into the habitually existing classification.

    Quite right. Your opponent writes utter nonsense. OTR and MLRS have a difference in the range of defeat and tasks (and that is very conditional). Everything. A salvo of 4 PrSMs from MLRS makes it a Reactive Multiple Launch System, it is reactive and fires a salvo at a range of ~ 500 km. GMLRS can be used by single launches at a distance of up to 150 km, why not OTP?
    About a ballistic missile is generally nonsense. They are all ballistic if they fly along a ballistic trajectory, quasi-ballistic if along a quasi-ballistic trajectory. And OTRs are modern along a quasi-ballistic trajectory and fly, so they are not purely ballistic at all.
    1. Intruder
      Intruder 13 May 2021 10: 07
      -2
      They are all ballistic if they fly along a ballistic trajectory, quasi-ballistic if along a quasi-ballistic trajectory.
      Colleague, if they fly ballistically and only in the atmosphere, then also aeroballistic types and types ... wink
    2. Ka-52
      Ka-52 13 May 2021 13: 00
      +3
      OTP modern on a quasi-ballistic trajectory

      from what nose did you get the term "quasi-ballistic trajectory". Provide pzhl link to a textbook on ballistics. Links to the National Geographic website are not accepted.
      1. Intruder
        Intruder 13 May 2021 16: 30
        0
        Provide pzhl link to the textbook on ballistics
        can I be "devil's advocate" !? We read Akhromeev's military dictionary:
        A cruise missile is a guided missile with load-bearing surfaces that create aerodynamic lift when flying in the atmosphere. The KR uses rocket and jet engines. Instead of a warhead, reconnaissance equipment or electronic warfare can be placed. CR can be carried out according to an aircraft (normal) scheme with a flat wing (low-maneuverable with subsonic speed and low flight altitude) or with a cruciform wing and tail (highly maneuverable for hitting moving targets). The CD includes anti-aircraft, aviation, anti-tank, anti-submarine and anti-ship missiles. However, often only those of them that are made according to the airplane scheme are understood as CD ...

        Or, in V.P. Petrov, A.A. Sochivko "Missile control", Moscow: 1963 Chapter 2, section 5 - control efforts. I quote:
        The flight of an aircraft made according to the airplane scheme is mainly determined by the presence of the wing lift. However, with an increase in flight speed, the ballistic properties of an aircraft are enhanced and more clearly revealed, i.e. properties based on the use of its kinetic energy. At a sufficiently high speed, the flight of an aircraft is mainly determined by its ballistic properties. Therefore, with an increase in flight speed, there is no need to supply the rocket with large and heavy wings that create lift. The dimensions of the tail of the missiles decrease with the growth of their speeds. Moreover, to obtain a large control force, the rocket plumage is made entirely rotary. High-speed missiles usually use not an aircraft, but a "Cartesian" arrangement of the empennage, in which the design and operation of the horizontal and vertical empennage are the same. At present, the most common scheme of missiles with movable control wings and a fixed tail, a "duck" scheme, in which the steering surfaces are located in front of the center of gravity of the rocket, and a scheme with fixed wings and deflected tail. The airplane aerodynamic scheme differs from the four-wing scheme in that it usually uses a coordinated turn: when changing the direction of flight, it is necessary to roll the rocket in a certain way using the ailerons. This complicates the system of its stabilization. In rockets with a Cartesian tail, a simple deflection of the steering surfaces produces a turn in any direction. The flight of ballistic missiles occurs mainly outside the dense layers of the atmosphere. They do not require support in the air for their flight, so they do not have wings. The atmosphere only impedes their movement, causing a loss of kinetic energy. Control moments in ballistic missiles are created only by reactive forces ...
        1. Ka-52
          Ka-52 14 May 2021 05: 06
          +2
          and-and-and-and? why did you bring this here?
          1. Intruder
            Intruder 14 May 2021 07: 34
            -1
            and-and-and-and? why did you bring this here
            these are examples from the "textbooks" that you advised to give, so I decided to intervene in your dispute with a colleague OgnennyiKotik, and be a little devil's advocate! wink and quasi-ballistic types and other concepts and names that are often used in various fields of technology and science are modern mass culture and only ... drinks
            1. Ka-52
              Ka-52 14 May 2021 08: 30
              +2
              Well, so you gave excerpts describing flight due to controlled planes and those nuances that affect atmospheric controlled flight. What does ballistics have to do with it?
              1. Intruder
                Intruder 14 May 2021 08: 51
                -1
                Well, so you gave excerpts describing flight due to controlled planes and those nuances that affect atmospheric controlled flight. What does ballistics have to do with it?
                This is to what I replied to you in the comment above, like: where do all these marketing concepts of "quasi" and "aero" come from, but in fact only continuous kinetics and physics of an abandoned body in or out of the atmosphere ...
                However, with an increase in flight speed, the ballistic properties of an aircraft are enhanced and more clearly revealed, i.e. properties based on the use of its kinetic energy. At a sufficiently high speed, the flight of an aircraft is mainly determined by its ballistic properties.
                That is, after 5-6 M, there is a sufficient supply of kinetic energy in flight, surfaces are no longer needed at all, although the rocket itself can be in the stratosphere, and is controlled using a gas-dynamic belt or OBT, but it will be rather aeroballistic anyway .. ...
                1. Ka-52
                  Ka-52 14 May 2021 09: 01
                  +2
                  these are all wise nose-picking. Since my training at TVVAUL, I am sure of one thing: there is an uncontrolled flight along a ballistic trajectory. And there is a controlled flight due to planes or GDR. And the rest is a shadow on the fence
                2. Intruder
                  Intruder 14 May 2021 12: 43
                  0
                  Since my training at TVVAUL, I am sure of one thing: there is an uncontrolled flight along a ballistic trajectory. And there is a controlled flight due to planes or GDR.
                  To some extent I agree, but even the manufacturer of JSC NPK KBM - the Iskander complex, in terms of its products: 9M723, 9M723-1, declares the type: aeroballistic rocket (one stage with a solid-propellant engine), with the presence of stealth -technology to the heap ...!? About "quasi", I agree here ... - these are journalistic notions and marketing nonsense, but there is a difference between the ballistic type and aeroballistic type, and it lies precisely in what environment the flight takes place, or only the atmosphere, or there is still a section outside the atmosphere. ..
                3. OgnennyiKotik
                  OgnennyiKotik 14 May 2021 13: 19
                  -1
                  Quote: Intruder
                  About "quasi", I agree here ... - these are journalistic notions and marketing nonsense

                  quasi- (from Latin quasi- “supposedly, as if”) - a prefix with the meaning “imaginary”, “fake” (quasi-scientific), as well as “almost”, “close” (quasi-optics).

                  In particular, quasi-ballistic means that it is not completely ballistic, in view of the controllability of the flight, but in general the trajectory is close to ballistic. Aeroballistic means that the control takes place in the atmosphere, it is a special case. Naturally, this is nothing new, but it is necessary to give classifications to new missiles, they are no longer ballistic and some, perhaps not even aeroballistic. There are many of them. What should you call them?
                  Terms emerge to explain new things and make clear classifications. To refer to the fact that when I was studying it was not very strange. They get into textbooks from real life, and not vice versa.
                4. Intruder
                  Intruder 14 May 2021 15: 48
                  0
                  In particular, quasi-ballistic means that it is not completely ballistic, in view of the controllability of the flight,
                  Colleague .., well, why bother with unnecessary entities, it flies along a ballistic trajectory and on the marching section, which means it is a ballistic object, and if it maneuvers, then a guided missile with the possibility of trajectory correction on the marching section ... otherwise, I will get sick of protecting you today ... laughing
                5. OgnennyiKotik
                  OgnennyiKotik 14 May 2021 15: 52
                  -2
                  You don’t need to protect me, if I’m interested, I can do it myself. It's just that mostly very boring guys are appointing.
                  Quote: Intruder
                  guided missile with the ability to correct the trajectory on the cruising section
                  so this is a rocket flying not quite along a ballistic trajectory, in Latin: quasi-ballistic trajectoriam.
                6. Intruder
                  Intruder 14 May 2021 16: 31
                  +1
                  You don’t need to protect me, if I’m interested, I can do it myself. It's just that mostly very boring guys are appointing.
                  do not deny the courtesy, a little to me to allow that one from the area of ​​protection, on my rather boring Friday morning !? And guys, well, they are different !? laughing
                7. OgnennyiKotik
                  OgnennyiKotik 14 May 2021 16: 37
                  0
                  How can I refuse this? laughing
                8. Intruder
                  Intruder 14 May 2021 16: 39
                  +1
                  How can I refuse this?
                  It's already better, colleague ... and then we are with you, we still did not have enough to enter, because of any disputes in confrontation ...!? drinks
  • OgnennyiKotik
    OgnennyiKotik 13 May 2021 16: 46
    0
    Quasi-ballistic trajectory / missile is a common term for missiles flying along a ballistic trajectory with the ability to control at various sites.
    Used by everyone, including the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation.
    If you want to find a description in the scientific literature, I do not stop you, correct your ignorance. I don't need to be burdened with your problems.

    https://function.mil.ru/news_page/country/[email protected]
    1. Ka-52
      Ka-52 14 May 2021 05: 04
      0
      a common term for missiles flying on a ballistic trajectory with the ability to control at various sites.

      common? I asked you to give an example from the textbook, and not puffed up to drag here the releases of the press service of the Ministry of Defense. Press service of the Ministry of Defense is the department of "missile weapons" of the IVTS?
      Used by all

      what is written on the fence is also used by everyone. The level of argumentation is clear.
      1. Intruder
        Intruder 14 May 2021 07: 43
        +1
        I asked you to give an example from the tutorial
        Here, not the IWTS department !? And the colleague above is not taking an exam in rocketry for you, right ??? Why press him like that ... he is a peaceful person, he just loves to discuss military equipment on this site, he even loves it in his own way and within the limits of his purely personal interests ... wink
        1. Ka-52
          Ka-52 14 May 2021 08: 34
          +2
          this peaceful person makes quite aggressive attacks on his own. So I think that he does not need defenders
          1. Intruder
            Intruder 14 May 2021 08: 43
            +1
            this peaceful person makes quite aggressive attacks on his own
            I know this very well from my own perspective, we previously talked very "closely and hotly" in the topic - about the F-35 winked , but this does not cancel his right to protect his interests with a possible desire on the part of a third party, like others .. by the way! yes
            1. Ka-52
              Ka-52 14 May 2021 08: 51
              +3
              who would protect me when Leninists and lovers of the Soviet planned economy are attacking me in a crowd laughing
            2. Intruder
              Intruder 14 May 2021 12: 47
              +2
              who would protect me when Leninists and lovers of the Soviet planned economy are attacking me in a crowd
              contact and you will be heard ... laughing I will gladly help, due to time and effort ... especially if it is, protection in reality is needed !!! Here I boil over anything except hunger strike! good
  • alexmach
    alexmach 13 May 2021 09: 44
    +1
    M142 HIMARS is really a multiple launch rocket launcher

    This Himas has long been a multipurpose launcher combining the functions of OTRK and RZSO.
  • voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 13 May 2021 10: 06
    +3
    "The missile can be compared with Iskander with a big stretch and only in terms of the range parameter" ///
    ---
    This missile is an anti-Iskander. To destroy launching Iskander, Tornado and similar systems.
    This does not require a half-ton warhead. We need: range, accuracy.
    1. abc_alex
      abc_alex 13 May 2021 11: 58
      +1
      Quote: voyaka uh
      This missile is an anti-Iskander. To destroy launching Iskander, Tornado and similar systems.

      Do you know how to make the morning :) My compliments.
      What would you understand, the Iskander OTRK division is 51 vehicles for a missile brigade. The communication distance between the head computer and the launcher is up to 350 (three hundred and fifty) kilometers in the parking lot. Each computer has 16 communication channels. The transmission time for the flight mission to all 16 aircraft is 7 minutes.
      Don't you think that killing Iskander from these tractors will untie the navel? I remind you that Russian weapons are made with the expectation of a war between armies, and not against bearded men in sneakers. Therefore, the design takes into account the possibility of using heavy artillery systems. That is why all OTRK Iskander vehicles are made on a highly mobile chassis and provide instant preparation for launch and launch by the standards of the battlefield. In fact, after reaching position, 32 missiles can be launched in less than half an hour. During this time, no one will be able to organize suppression from tractors on such an area.
      Aviation is another matter.
      Also, note that these rockets are GPS guided. This means that their main purpose is to attack stationary objects with known coordinates.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 13 May 2021 12: 31
        +3
        "In fact, after reaching position 32 missiles can be launched in less than half an hour" ///
        ---
        Half an hour is very, very long.
        GPS coordinates are transmitted in a minute.
        Aviation arrives in five to ten minutes.
        But this rocket will arrive faster. For this, they are introduced to the troops.
        To get ahead of aviation.
        1. abc_alex
          abc_alex 13 May 2021 13: 14
          +2
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Half an hour is very, very long.
          GPS coordinates are transmitted in a minute.
          Aviation arrives in five to ten minutes.


          This is negligible. Leave the tales about "satellites see everything" and let's talk seriously. You have a front 500 km long (one computer and launchers each 250 km away from it) From these launchers, rockets can be launched to a depth of 500 km. We are reducing the distance to 400 kilometers for the deployment of the vehicles of the complex in depth from the front line to the rear. This means you need to conduct exploration in an area of ​​100x500 = 100 square kilometers. Remind you of the area of ​​Israel? 50000 square kilometers.
          I articulate: you need to conduct reconnaissance in the territory twice the territory of Israel... In half an hour. Well? Can you?
          And I remind you that this is not in conditions when it is possible to run an AWACS chandelier along the border, it is in the depths of the enemy's defense.
          But first you need to find out from somewhere that the Iskander division has gone somewhere and arrived somewhere. But he can get up on the border of the 100-km zone farthest from you, what are you going to identify him with?
          Suppose someone (spies!) Called you from 100 kilometers away and said that Iskander's car had passed him. You are sending reconnaissance UAVs Hermes 900. Its cruising speed is about 120 km / h. Let's say no one noticed him or knocked him down. It will take your UAV almost an hour to reach the detection point. And the first salvo to Iskander from the moment of stopping was less than 15 minutes. You will also decide where and where to launch the UAV, and the computer will already transmit the flight task to the launcher. And when the UAV reaches the 100 km line from the front (note! I give you a head start, believing that your UAV was launched instantly and from the front line!) Iskander's launchers will already shoot the second salvo and move back to the rear.
          This is a simple chronology, there is no magic here.
          Yes, planes, of course, will be able to catch up with the launcher. And punish. If they can break through 100 km of front-line air defense.
          But it will certainly not be possible to suppress Iskander missiles with these tractors.

          I repeat over and over again. Soviet weapons were made and Russian ones are made according to different standards based on the paradigm of war with a high-tech adversary possessing ALL the means of destruction and reconnaissance available at the moment. Not two "alahakbaras" and thirty khasam-babakhs on slate. BUT present army. With aviation, heavy artillery and rocket forces, with full-fledged reconnaissance, including orbital.
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 13 May 2021 14: 01
            +4
            Well, as they say: "the Ministry of Health warned."
            Live on according to Soviet military standards. Under the cover of an ICBM it is possible ...
            1. abc_alex
              abc_alex 13 May 2021 14: 06
              +2
              Quote: voyaka uh
              Well, as they say: "the Ministry of Health warned."
              Live on according to Soviet military standards. Under the cover of an ICBM it is possible ...

              That the proposal to carry out reconnaissance over the entire territory of Israel in half an hour knocked out the "theoretical base"? Come on, tea is not the first time you and I grappled with tongues :) When I am you, when you are me. I think this is the best way to bang your foreheads in the world :)
              hi
            2. OgnennyiKotik
              OgnennyiKotik 13 May 2021 23: 19
              +3
              The US Army announced the range of the new LRHW hypersonic quasi-ballistic missiles, it is 2 km. This can be considered an answer to Iskander.



              1. Intruder
                Intruder 14 May 2021 07: 50
                0
                This can be considered an answer to Iskander.
                Hmm, something very quickly the Yankees deployed hypersonic birds and immediately increased the range - up to almost 3000 km .. and perhaps already surpassed the main parameters: 9M723, 9M723-1 !?
          2. Jacket in stock
            Jacket in stock 13 May 2021 16: 47
            +2
            Quote: abc_alex
            You have a front 500 km long (one computer and launchers each 250 km away from it) From these launchers, rockets can be launched to a depth of 500 km. We are reducing the distance to 400 kilometers for the deployment of the vehicles of the complex in depth from the front line to the rear. This means you need to conduct exploration in an area of ​​100x500 = 100 square kilometers

            Ага.
            And our Iskander, in your opinion, do not need to carry out reconnaissance of targets? Have our companions already seen everyone?
            Quote: abc_alex
            not in conditions where it is possible to run an AWACS chandelier along the border, it is in the depth of the enemy's defense.
            But first you need to find out from somewhere that the Iskander division has gone somewhere and arrived somewhere.

            Why can't you hang AWACS?
            Is it war already?
            Then where did our Iskanders come from and where did they go? If they were just about to leave their places of deployment, then they were already destroyed, if they left in advance, before the war, then AWACS and Globalhoks could see them without any problems.
            And yes, the time for transferring information from them to the "tractor" is not minutes, seconds.
            Quote: abc_alex
            Someone (spies!) called you from 100 kilometers away and said that Iskander's car had passed him. You are sending reconnaissance UAVs Hermes 900. Its cruising speed is about 120 km / h. Let's say no one noticed him or knocked him down. It will take your UAV almost an hour to reach the detection point. And on the first salvo to Iskander from the moment of stopping, less than 15 minutes

            And why should they send their UAVs somewhere, they already hang everywhere and see everything 500 km into our depths. And plus each of their aircraft, and each radar on the ground, and each binoculars.
            on the first salvo to Iskander from the moment of stopping less than 15 minutes

            Those. Are you suggesting that we shoot first and start a world war?
            Strong!
            Quote: abc_alex
            I repeat over and over again. Soviet weapons were made and Russian ones are being made according to different standards based on the paradigm of war with a high-tech enemy possessing ALL the means of destruction and reconnaissance available at the moment.

            Does it mean that intelligence works worse for them?
            I don’t believe it, it is by hook or by crook we get their electronics for our weapons, and not they are ours. And they have hundreds of different UAVs of all classes, and we have pieces, and even then they are experienced. And it is they have long ago introduced a global network-centric system for transmitting information at all levels.
            The Iskander will see the "tractors" even before the central computer starts receiving and processing information, and while those 7 minutes have passed, they will have time to shoot back and leave.
            1. sustav75
              sustav75 14 May 2021 16: 12
              0
              Don't worry like that! Cartoonists in the Ministry of Defense are already drawing new cartoons! Putin said, "while the adversaries there invent something, we will draw some more" ...
          3. Intruder
            Intruder 14 May 2021 09: 05
            +2
            Soviet weapons were made and Russian ones are made according to different standards based on the paradigm of war with a high-tech adversary possessing ALL the means of destruction and reconnaissance available at the moment.
            Of course, but this was so, until the early 00s, when there was not so noticeable lag in microelectronics with optics and the economy of some countries in the New and Old Worlds! And if you remember the story, and at least read a little in your free time at your leisure, something like this: "Technical reconnaissance from space" Menshakov Yu.K., Moscow 2013, then it looks a little different, the topic: "fairy tales about satellites see everything .. "!
  • Yves762
    Yves762 13 May 2021 08: 29
    +4
    Quote: Ka-52
    The Americans will not be able to fire volleys with this missile, since only one container is placed on the installation.

    Not quite here:
    Screenshot of Lockheed video showing HiMARS with two spent PrSMs per launcher. HiMARS can carry one launcher, US Army MLRS (* MLRS) can carry two capsules or four PrSMs.


    Lockheed video screenshot showing a HiMARS with two expended PrSMs per launch pod. A HiMARS can carry one launch pod, an US Army MLRS can carry two pods, or four PrSMs.


    * https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2021/04/new-prsms-variants-could-be-a-game-changer-for-the-u-s-marine-corps-himars/
    1. Ka-52
      Ka-52 13 May 2021 08: 44
      +1
      perhaps he wrote from memory.
  • Errr
    Errr 13 May 2021 08: 24
    +3
    Quote: Mountain Shooter
    As far as I understand, the ammunition is corrected, apparently, by GPS.
    The video in the article is scanty. Check out the full version.As you can see, the Precision Strike Missile is initially guided by the F-35, but the GPS antenna in this missile is also. available.
  • Usher
    Usher 13 May 2021 09: 15
    -5
    Quote: Mountain Shooter
    The range is impressive. As far as I understand, the ammunition is corrected, apparently, by GPS. It is unpleasant that a potential enemy has such missiles in multiple launch rocket systems.

    this is another class of Iskander missiles. Only for them is already 400 km achievement. Although it seems that the United States has good solid fuel engines. It's strange to see this, apparently there are no more frames?
  • Reserve buildbat
    Reserve buildbat 13 May 2021 15: 39
    0
    There is. Only 2 missiles fit into each multiple launch rocket system)))
  • Professor
    Professor 13 May 2021 07: 16
    -8
    This missile is being developed as part of a program to replace the army's tactical missile systems. The Pentagon plans to get a missile with a maximum range of 499 km. Why exactly such a value, similar to a store price tag?

    Because the distance from the Ukrainian border to the center of Moscow is <500 km.
    1. Egoza
      Egoza 13 May 2021 07: 21
      +5
      Quote: Professor
      Because the distance from the Ukrainian border to the center of Moscow is <500 km.

      I doubt that the Americans will give the Ukrainians "such a charm." They will immediately sell it to Moscow
      1. carstorm 11
        carstorm 11 13 May 2021 07: 41
        -4
        Things are much worse. Placing such complexes at such distances is already a declaration of war. This was said back in the XNUMXs, as was the reaction of our General Staff to a similar scenario. No one will ever let this happen. This will enable the advance strike mechanism. Do you just think that the Iskander standing in Kaliningrad scare everyone so?
        1. Hagen
          Hagen 13 May 2021 08: 33
          +6
          Quote: carstorm 11
          This will enable the advance strike mechanism.

          The Iskanders in Kaliningrad did not activate this mechanism. Why did you assume that in this case there will be something else? We just need to develop something similar to help Iskander, cheaper (compared to Iskander), but for the same range, 500-1800 km, with an adjustable flight path, for objects not covered by dense missile defense (Poland, Ukraine, the Baltic states) ...
          1. carstorm 11
            carstorm 11 13 May 2021 08: 39
            -1
            Each state has its own red lines. I'm talking about ours.
            1. Hagen
              Hagen 13 May 2021 09: 18
              +2
              Quote: carstorm 11
              Each state has its own red lines. I'm talking about ours.

              I'm not sure if these lines are drawn that way.
              1. carstorm 11
                carstorm 11 13 May 2021 12: 13
                0
                And for a very long time. Back in the XNUMXs, this was voiced. The doctrine is also clearly spelled out. Just read carefully and understand what threats are. Do you think the main reason for Crimea is taking care of Crimeans? And this is a threat of the same order and probably even more.
                1. Hagen
                  Hagen 13 May 2021 18: 51
                  0
                  Quote: carstorm 11
                  The doctrine is also clearly spelled out. Just read carefully and understand what threats are.

                  I don’t know how you subtracted the red lines in the doctrine, but from Deveselu to Moscow it’s only 1600 km, and BGM-109G with W-84 flies at 2500. And nothing happened. And about Crimea, I myself know that tourism there is not in the first place for us. As for the Crimeans .... you are working on Navalny's patterns. And I consider him an enemy.
                  1. carstorm 11
                    carstorm 11 13 May 2021 19: 15
                    0
                    Flight time. As for Navplny and other clowns, if you really think that Crimea was taken precisely because of the protection of people there, then you are probably very naive. Sometimes just one thing overlaps with the other. Moreover, as for me, this is very good in that case.
                    1. Hagen
                      Hagen 13 May 2021 19: 20
                      0
                      Quote: carstorm 11
                      if you really think that Crimea was taken precisely because of the protection of people there

                      Crimea is a strategic bridgehead from which all of southern Europe is accessible. Together with Kaliningrad, they keep the European theater of operations in ticks. And the Crimeans keep the Crimea in a state of readiness. And if they are loyal to the authorities, then the risks of sabotage are minimized. Therefore, one is organically linked to the other. Or do you also think that the people were brought there from Russia by the millions?
                      1. carstorm 11
                        carstorm 11 13 May 2021 19: 52
                        0
                        I told you so) it was not people who just pushed to make this decision, but the loss of Crimea from a strategic point of view. That's all. Because it was vital for the state. Because the deployment there at that time, having an agreement on the limitations of the medium and shorter range of any fleet other than ours, is deadly. Likewise, the deployment of OTRK and other weapons of this class 500 km from the capital bears simply horrible consequences. This is an immediate threat to the life of the state. What is clearly stated in the doctrine, as well as the actions in this case.
                      2. Hagen
                        Hagen 13 May 2021 20: 03
                        0
                        Quote: carstorm 11
                        it was not people who just pushed to make this decision, namely the loss of Crimea from a strategic point of view.

                        Politics is the art of the possible. That would not have shed blood on the Maidan, the murder of the Crimeans near Korsun would not have happened, but everything would have gone as agreed, and Crimea would have remained under the Ukrainian flag, with Poroshenko and Ze. And what pushed anyone, no one will tell you or me anything, except for the official version. At least another fifty years.
    2. Professor
      Professor 13 May 2021 07: 42
      -1
      Quote: Egoza
      Quote: Professor
      Because the distance from the Ukrainian border to the center of Moscow is <500 km.

      I doubt that the Americans will give the Ukrainians "such a charm." They will immediately sell it to Moscow

      Will they give?
      “Responding to numerous requests from our Ukrainian partners, we have decided to deploy our new complexes in Ukraine in order to strengthen peace, security and stability in the region. We emphasize that these actions are not directed against anyone and rumors of our intention to equip the complexes with tactical nuclear weapons do not correspond to reality. "
      1. Evil543
        Evil543 13 May 2021 07: 49
        +4
        And if the dad gets offended and the division gives the hamsa a polonaise, out of friendly motives, not directed against anyone?
      2. carstorm 11
        carstorm 11 13 May 2021 08: 41
        +2
        What a fantastic book?) Would you like to read it?) As you have already been told below, this is the same as that now we will start delivering OTRK to the friends of Israel) prompt reaction or present yourself?
  • Serpet
    Serpet 13 May 2021 07: 39
    +23
    Quote: Professor
    Because the distance from the Ukrainian border to the center of Moscow is <500 km

    Oleg, why are you trolling? Such a distance to Moscow, and not only to Moscow, there is a lot from where.
    1. Professor
      Professor 13 May 2021 07: 45
      -4
      Quote: Serpet
      Quote: Professor
      Because the distance from the Ukrainian border to the center of Moscow is <500 km

      Oleg, why are you trolling? Such a distance to Moscow, and not only to Moscow, there is a lot from where.

      No, not much. From Latvia 600 km. No closer.
      1. Horon
        Horon 13 May 2021 08: 40
        +3
        From the Russian-Ukrainian border, in general, a hundred meters, to destroy such a device, so recklessly located near the border, ordinary artillery is enough! Who has long-range weapons in close proximity to the enemy's artillery? fool
        Your comment lends itself more to low-quality trolling than adequate commentary. For a strike on Moscow, NATO adversaries have long had other means, but only after their use and the events that followed them, mankind will have to re-master the technology of the stone ax! Apparently someone thinks that his disassembly of the "titans" will not touch!
        1. Professor
          Professor 13 May 2021 08: 59
          -4
          Quote: Horon
          From the Russian-Ukrainian border, in general, a hundred meters, to destroy such a device, so recklessly located near the border, ordinary artillery is enough! Who has long-range weapons in close proximity to the enemy's artillery?

          Who has it? For example the Russian Federation in Kaliningrad.

          Quote: Horon
          Your comment lends itself more to low-quality trolling than adequate commentary. For a strike on Moscow, NATO adversaries have long had other means, but only after their use and the events that followed them, mankind will have to re-master the technology of the stone ax! Apparently someone thinks that his disassembly of the "titans" will not touch!

          Get out of your concept and my comment will appear before you in a new light. Pershing in Europe were stationed for containment, not for a nuclear apocalypse. The same will happen here. The advantages are mobility and short flight times.

          PS
          Nuclear war will not destroy civilization as taught in the USSR. No one will strike at the same Africa or South America, Oceania and other non-threatening territories.
          1. Horon
            Horon 13 May 2021 09: 55
            +5
            Who has it? For example the Russian Federation in Kaliningrad.

            Outline the radius of application of Eskanders in Kaliningrad, provided that it is not in the affected area of ​​conventional field artillery and it will be significantly less than 500 km.
            Pershing in Europe was stationed for containment, not for a nuclear apocalypse.

            Come out of the concept of "US-peacekeepers" and try to explain the use of nuclear weapons against the civilian population of Japan, not by killing tendencies, but by the disinfection of the area.
            Nuclear war will not destroy civilization as taught in the USSR. No one will strike at the same Africa or South America, Oceania and other non-threatening territories.

            A house always becomes stronger if its foundation is demolished! The higher floors won't be affected, will they? Truth? The world was fucked up when Hussein set fire to oil, when the glaciers melted slightly, when the pandemic passed, serious problems occurred in Europe when a volcanic eruption occurred in Iceland, when the Chernobyl reactor exploded. The list of small options for what has already been confirmed by practice, but on a small scale and what the remnants of humanity will fall into after a nuclear armageddon, can still be continued and they will occur both simultaneously and sequentially summing up and accumulating, but I'm afraid it will take a lot of my time and yours too ... Therefore, you can hope to sit out "on the sidelines", because you simply cannot or don’t want to see the whole picture of the consequences! You can continue to live in the Hollywood world where lights are on and phones are working during a zombie apocalypse or an alien invasion! winked
            1. Professor
              Professor 13 May 2021 10: 08
              -5
              Quote: Horon
              Outline the radius of application of Eskanders in Kaliningrad, provided that it is not in the affected area of ​​conventional field artillery and it will be significantly less than 500 km.

              1. The range of the Iskander has not been limited to 500 km for a long time. This is what motivated the bourgeoisie to withdraw from the treaties.
              2. The distance from the state border to the Iskander locations allows them to be destroyed by enemy long-range artillery. This is in response to your question "Who has long-range weapons in close proximity to enemy artillery?"
              The question is: "Who will have time to destroy these Iskanders?"

              Quote: Horon
              Come out of the concept of "US peacekeepers" and try to explain the use of nuclear weapons against civilians, not by slaughtering inclinations, but by the disinfection of the area.

              request

              Quote: Horon
              A house always becomes stronger if its foundation is demolished! The higher floors won't be affected, will they? Truth? The world was fucked up when Hussein set fire to oil, when the glaciers melted slightly, when the pandemic passed, serious problems occurred in Europe when a volcanic eruption occurred in Iceland, when the Chernobyl reactor exploded. The list of small options for what has already been confirmed by practice, but on a small scale and what the remnants of humanity will fall into after a nuclear armageddon, can still be continued and they will occur both simultaneously and sequentially summing up and accumulating, but I'm afraid it will take a lot of my time and yours too ... Therefore, you can hope to sit out "on the sidelines", because you simply cannot or don’t want to see the whole picture of the consequences! You can continue to live in the Hollywood world where lights are on and phones are working during a zombie apocalypse or an alien invasion!

              Global nuclear war will affect the whole world, but ...
              1. There will be no nuclear winter. These are all fairy tales.
              2. Humanity will not be in the Stone Age, since not only some countries, but even entire continents will not be subject to a nuclear strike.
              3. There will be those who will be able to sit on the sidelines.
              4. Electricity and mobile communications in the Polynesian islands will not be affected.
              1. Hagen
                Hagen 13 May 2021 10: 25
                0
                Quote: Professor
                Humanity will not end up in the Stone Age, since not only some countries, but even entire continents will not be subject to a nuclear strike.

                But Nigeria will suddenly turn out to be the world hegemon request laughing
                1. 3danimal
                  3danimal 13 May 2021 11: 41
                  +2
                  No, China, which wisely refrains from participating. Will be the first in everything: industry, weapons.
                  Faithful to the Confucian philosophy, "he will wait, sitting on the bank of the river, as the corpses of his enemies float by."
                  At the same time, for example, it will easily get back a part of the Far East, which at the beginning of the 19th century belonged to him (now it is softly claiming).
              2. Horon
                Horon 13 May 2021 12: 01
                +3
                The range of the Iskander is not limited to 500 km for a long time.

                There is real evidence of this, or take the word of those who have missile defense in Romania against Iran? laughing
                Global nuclear war will affect the whole world, but ...
                1. There will be no nuclear winter. These are all fairy tales.
                2. Humanity will not be in the Stone Age, since not only some countries, but even entire continents will not be subject to a nuclear strike.
                3. There will be those who will be able to sit on the sidelines.
                4. Electricity and mobile communications in the Polynesian islands will not be affected.

                Well, yes, well, yes, it won't! The sun will shine brightly! winked Especially over the northern hemisphere after hundreds of thousands of tons of ash rise into the air from the explosions themselves, as well as their consequences.
                2. Countries that have not been subjected to a nuclear strike will receive a bunch of problems on their territories from hunger to internecine wars, since the loss of their peace leaders will give carte blanche to solve long-standing problems from territories and resources to technologies and industries.
                3. Savages of the Amazon, as they do not depend on the outside world. And that's not a fact.
                4. Indeed, in order to maintain the efficiency of communication and electricity, they will have to simply recreate the entire technological chain, since only the pyramids are eternal and that, there are doubts.
                1. Professor
                  Professor 13 May 2021 12: 42
                  -1
                  1. Why docs?
                  Missile defense in Romania against Iranian missiles. Look at the map.
                  In the other hemisphere, life will not suffer much. Far from the Stone Age.
                  2. After famine and internecine wars (both are present now), they will continue to live as they did.
                  3. In addition to the savages of the Amazon, billions of people will live without the Northern Hemisphere.
                  4. To maintain a standard of living corresponding to the middle of the 20th century, they will have enough of their resources. There can be no talk of any Stone Age.
                  1. Horon
                    Horon 13 May 2021 16: 37
                    0
                    Why docs?
                    Missile defense in Romania against Iranian missiles

                    Understandable and noticeable! I especially liked the map. Can the Iranians also put some kind of wunerwafli to drive the Somali pirates. winked Or in Syria.
                    To maintain a standard of living corresponding to the middle of the 20th century, they will have enough of their own resources. There can be no talk of any Stone Age.

                    God, I'm talking to a child! These countries will need to restore and develop their technological and economic chains in the context of widespread local wars, the invasion of multi-million army of refugees, internal social explosions, destroyed international transport and economic links and climatic fluctuations over the course of decades. What you can observe in countries such as Somalia, Libya or Jordan, only enlarged hundreds of times and without the possibility of technological support. In conditions of overpopulation of the planet, and even a significant part of it will be unsuitable for life, civilization will be thrown back for thousands of years in development, several decades after nuclear armageddon! The fact that people have ceased to be afraid of a big war is the first sign of its imminent start. Apparently and true, the Earth decided to get rid of the parasite in the face of man!
              3. abc_alex
                abc_alex 13 May 2021 12: 36
                +2
                Quote: Professor
                2. Humanity will not be in the Stone Age, since not only some countries, but even entire continents will not be subject to a nuclear strike.

                It will turn out. Not in stone, of course, but close.
                What is the basis of the global division of labor today? This is the very thing that allows the Israelis, for example, to move in cars, rather than donkeys and mules. On world trade. And what is the basis of world trade? On the global financial system. On cross-border transfer schemes. And what are the cross-border transfers based on? On the dollar system.
                We take out the US and the dollar from the scheme. We take out Europe and the euro. China and yuan. Russia and the ruble. What's left? Scattered local markets remain without the possibility of direct trade. This would mean the end of cross-border trade other than between neighboring countries. The very concept of the "world market" will disappear at once, and with it the industries working for it. This means minus all large-scale mechanical engineering. The world economy is fragmented into closed systems capable of self-sufficiency.
                This is certainly not the Stone Age, but very close to late feudalism.
                "Continents" did you mean Australia, Africa and South America? Well, what will it do? Africa even now does not shine with economic success, and after the cessation of mass purchases from North America and Eurasia, it will quickly return to the state of the Middle Ages.
                South America may be able to cope with the economic problems of self-sufficiency. But again, this will require reformatting the economies of entire countries. For example, what should Brazil do with its beef in such a volume? Who will need it? Where should Venezuela do with its oil? Nowhere. And there are no resources for restructuring economies.
                Australia is cool, of course. But what should Australia do with wool (it holds 30% of the world market) and mutton? Now they are being transported to the BV, but with the collapse of the system of cross-border trade where? And most importantly, who will need Australian coal, bauxite and uranium? And this is 30% of exports. And it would be okay to export. Australia's imports include pharmaceuticals from the US and Europe.
                Moreover. The collapse of the global financial market will immediately affect the resources of the economies. "Assets" such as derivatives and "market capitalization" would be meaningless. Stocks, bonds, treasuries - all of this will instantly become fiction. This means that most of the local and not so banks will disappear like morning fog. Including many government ones. Reserves in "currency" and "treasuries" will be reduced to nothing. Even gold will become marginally liquid.

                And I'm not talking about how international trade will suffer in the literal sense of the word. What will become of sea trade in a situation when there is a mass of armed ships in the ocean, whose captains have nowhere to lead them?
          2. 3danimal
            3danimal 13 May 2021 11: 34
            0
            And the nuclear warhead is 20 times less than at the peak in the 70s.
    2. carstorm 11
      carstorm 11 13 May 2021 12: 14
      0
      And there are tactical complexes?) Can you tell me places like this?)
  • abc_alex
    abc_alex 13 May 2021 12: 09
    +2
    Quote: Professor

    Because the distance from the Ukrainian border to the center of Moscow is <500 km.

    Hmm ... And from Rangpur to Kathmandu 450. From Damascus to Tel Aviv 230. From Calais to London 145.
    Does this also mean something in your opinion? I will add one more fact to your geographic knowledge box, from Anadyr to Washington 6800 km. I do not know what it will give you, but suddenly it will come in handy. :)
  • Charik
    Charik 13 May 2021 14: 15
    0
    And from Tartus to the southernmost outskirts of Israel 600
  • knn54
    knn54 13 May 2021 07: 23
    +3
    WHILE still an operational-tactical missile system.
    But they bypassed the "competitor" - the ATACMS Block IIA rocket.
    Possible options / modifications, in particular airborne: air-ground / water.
    And they are developing a promising GOS.
    The Iskander developers have something to think about.
    1. Ka-52
      Ka-52 13 May 2021 07: 28
      +4
      The Iskander developers have something to think about.

      to think about the air-based option for KeBeMovtsam? So "Dagger" is nothing more than an aviation version of "Iskander"
      1. Jacket in stock
        Jacket in stock 13 May 2021 09: 20
        +2
        Quote: Ka-52
        The Iskander developers have something to think about.

        to think about the air-based option for KeBeMovtsam? So "Dagger"

        And where does the aviation base?
        It is necessary to think about reducing the size of the rocket, the launching machine, and, accordingly, about a multiple reduction in the price of the complex.
        And so it is never correct to compare the Iskander "log" with the small PrSM, because the weight categories are too different, and the price too.
        Now, if our Iskander could be shoved into the Tornado, or at least the Hurricane, then yes.
    2. 3danimal
      3danimal 13 May 2021 11: 41
      +1
      It is not easy for Iskander with the new GOS: he needs to get foreign electronics in a roundabout way.
  • Intruder
    Intruder 13 May 2021 08: 03
    -4
    The fact is that missiles with a range exceeding 499 km, already belong to the class of intermediate and shorter-range missiles
    and ...?, even here the cunning Yankees still squeezed into the limits:
    It is alleged that PrSM set a record for a similar class of missiles in range, breaking distance of about 400 km
    , and even after leaving the INF Treaty, all the same in a cunning way, they do not approach the threshold of 499 km. Well, this is so far ... and not for sure, because secret data, what else will LM set up there! wink
    1. Errr
      Errr 13 May 2021 08: 51
      +3
      Quote: Intruder
      ... all the same in a tricky way, they do not approach the threshold of 499 km., well, that's for now ... and not for sure, because secret data, what else will LM set up there! wink
      Yes, what kind of tricks are there. The customer's wishes to have a missile with a launch range of more than 1000 miles (1600 km) have already been openly expressed in the press.
      The new Lockheed Martin high-precision strike missile has yet to be tested at maximum range — a classified figure that the army will only say is more than 500 kilometers (311 miles). But the service is already exploring potential upgrades that could give the PrSM what the army calls "medium-range capabilities," what they previously defined as over 1600 kilometers (1000 miles) - roughly three times that.
      According to Brigadier General [John Rafferty], the Army seeks to make the PRSM capable of "medium range" fire. John Rafferty, Director of the Army Futures Command for Long Range Precision Fire, in an exclusive interview. While Rafferty did not define the term, the overall developing medium range potential defined the average range in an earlier interview as “about 1800 kilometers” - about 1100 miles.
      https://breakingdefense.com/2021/04/can-army-triple-prsm-missile-range/
      1. Intruder
        Intruder 13 May 2021 09: 58
        -1
        The customer's wishes to have a missile with a launch range of more than 1000 miles (1600 km) have already been openly expressed in the press.
        Well, that means they have the right to 1600 km too, to "carry" the warheads of their missiles (of a purely good democracy, to very poor regions of the world) ... who will forbid them, especially after leaving the INF Treaty !? winked And so, whoever pays is the one with the girl ... dances and orders the music! wink
        1. Errr
          Errr 13 May 2021 11: 09
          0
          Everything which is not forbidden is allowed? (Anything that is not prohibited is permitted?) wink
          It may be so, but these rackets are not created at all for "very poor regions of the world", and "not very poor regions" will surely have something to answer and to attack. wink "Girls to dance" and so far it turns out quite badly. lol
        2. 3danimal
          3danimal 13 May 2021 11: 47
          0
          PrSM missiles are not for the (poorest) regions of the globe.
          Let me also remind you that we all support the economy together by buying: sneakers, clothes, smartphones, processors, video cards, Coca-Cola to cognac (or simply) smile
          It is these colossal incomes that provide external receipts (not counting internal ones), and not the mythical plunder of the "poor countries".
          1. Intruder
            Intruder 13 May 2021 12: 59
            0
            Let me also remind you that we all support the economy together by buying: sneakers, clothes, smartphones, processors, video cards, Coca-Cola to cognac (or simply)
            And who prevented from doing it ourselves, processors, video cards and smartphones, maintaining the level of technology, back in that country, well, we all chose the path of democracy and the market, so Colu and sneakers with Chinese boomboxes had to buy and eat / drink (munching Bush's legs, these amerikosovskie ... with surrogate alcohol under beautiful labels on cans and bottles), throwing out the tape recorders "Mayak", "Vega" and change from old "kopecks and sixes" to used Japanese women with cheap Japanese rubber lol ...!? Plus all sorts of Chinese smartphones and Japanese TVs - they just became more convenient, for us (in contrast to bulky "Rubies" and "Sunrise") and so fashionable, the status also became all at once, like - higher in the eyes of others that I could afford. .. a mobile phone or a Korean washing machine ...
            1. 3danimal
              3danimal 13 May 2021 15: 43
              +1
              And who prevented from doing it ourselves, processors, video cards and smartphones

              Nobody, but there is still competition.
              (In memory of Yotafon, with whom they floundered, they tried to sell at the price of Samsung flagships and scored). By the way, are you writing from him? wink
              munching bush legs

              So Bush's legs are evil? Explain this to those for whom they were the only poultry meat available to purchase.
              with surrogate alcohol under beautiful labels on cans and bottles

              Offer a domestic equal analogue of Ballantine's for a similar price.
              sneakers with chinese boomboxes to buy

              Therefore, there were no analogues available in terms of price and range.
              throwing out tape recorders "Mayak", "Vega

              Technique of the level of the early 80s in the 90s. People wanted the best.
              change from old "kopecks and sixes" to used Japanese women with cheap Japanese rubber

              And what do you reproach our motorists with? Maybe the rubber on the pennies was better? Or engines?
              Plus all sorts of Chinese smartphones and Japanese TVs - they just became more convenient for us (in contrast to the bulky "Rubies" and "Sunrise")

              Comfortable, affordable, always available.
              I had something to compare with - the Rubin bought after standing in line at 12 o'clock in the spring of 1991 could not be compared with the Sony Trinitron purchased a year later (without any difficulties), also with a remote control.
              fashionable, also became everything and status at once,

              Is it about convenience or fashion? People want a normal technique that works properly.
              The "Japanese" were superior in this by a head.
              Going back to the beginning:
              the lag did not occur in one year - there are many comparisons and examples of how similar electronics appeared in the USSR 8-10 years after the release of the original in Western Europe, Japan, Korea.
              In everything related to household appliances.
              1. Intruder
                Intruder 13 May 2021 16: 52
                0
                Nobody, but there is still competition.
                (In memory of Yotafon, with whom they floundered, they tried to sell at the price of Samsung flagships and scored). By the way, are you writing from him?
                I almost bought it for fun in 2015 - this ridiculous nonsense .., then, nevertheless, I took Samsung "Alpha", and I write from a laptop, under an American brand ... laughing but made in China !!!
                So Bush's legs are evil? Explain this to those for whom they were the only poultry meat available to purchase.
                Why, I ate them myself in the 90s, along with instant Chinese noodles ... I still remember the taste and color of both dishes! yes
                Technique of the level of the early 80s in the 90s. People wanted the best.
                I wrote about this in my comment above, plus her consumer qualities were already much lower, at that time already, when other products from this bourgeois West and East became massively available for purchase on the markets in the Russian Federation ... I remember perfectly a technical shock from magneto-optics and the level of capabilities of a cheap Chinese soundboard in those years!
                Offer a domestic equal analogue of Ballantine's for a similar price.
                it was not there, how can I suggest something that did not exist in nature at that time ...!? laughing
                I had something to compare with - the Rubin bought after standing in line at 12 o'clock in the spring of 1991 could not be compared with the Sony Trinitron purchased a year later (without any difficulties), also with a remote control

                Huh winked , my first was a High Black Trinitron, an excellent TV set worked until 2011, the only repair was the replacement of the kinescope itself in 2009, and so the picture gave excellent all the time and the receiver had good filters ... yes
                And what do you reproach our motorists with? Maybe the rubber on the pennies was better? Or engines?
                Yes, not in life, how much my father and I were repairing his penny, by the way, my first car, we had violent "erotic" moments in the garage in early June and late August, especially when replacing suspension elements and regulating the carburetor, with a trampler. .. until now, two feelings about the first "wives ..." car and that technical "horror" in the summer stuffiness in the garage under it ... crying
                People want a normal technique that works properly.
                The "Japanese" were superior in this by a head.
                Going back to the beginning:
                the lag did not occur in one year - there are many comparisons and examples of how similar electronics appeared in the USSR 8-10 years after the release of the original in Western Europe, Japan, Korea.
                In everything related to household appliances.
                And here, surprisingly, I agree, but there is also a factor of fashion and prestige in the possession of technology that every second or even tenth one does not have, one should not forget about this either, but convenience, it always comes first, especially in everyday life, as an aspect a comfortable life ...
                1. 3danimal
                  3danimal 13 May 2021 17: 33
                  +1
                  under an American brand ... laughing but made in China !!!

                  MacBook drinks
                  I use ASUS myself, I am faithful to the OS named after Gates.
                  In China or Malaysia, a lot of things are done, it is important where it is developed and whose company makes a profit request
                  Was it possible to make an acceptable working Russian RealMe? I think yes. As practice has shown, the purchase of Plastic Logic and its version of E-ink (with attempts to implement it either in the iPhone case or in the Yotafon) was a mistake.
                  It was necessary to use a reliable and proven method, to create an average-level "constructor", not to be greedy with prices.
                  There is experience in countries where there is good support for such businesses.
                  and so the picture was excellent all the time and the receiver had good filters ... yes


                  And it supported the PAL standard (EMNIP), thanks to which, with a connected Dendy, Sega or Sony console, it produced a color picture. good
                  I worked with my parents until the end of 00s, they didn’t repair it anymore.
                  1. Intruder
                    Intruder 13 May 2021 17: 44
                    +1
                    MacBook drinks
                    I use ASUS myself, I am faithful to the OS named after Gates.
                    There is also a poppy drinks , and even a home server from the same company (expensive crying but a beautiful dog ... meant luminium body wink ), but now I was writing with Dell, I am a renegade - there is a Linux-based OC distribution kit with a kernel, from brother Linus! laughing
                    It was necessary to use a reliable and proven method, to create an average-level "constructor", not to be greedy with prices.
                    , I agree, it is necessary ... but here, I could not - it means I could not ... winked
                    And supported the PAL standard (EMNIP),
                    Yes exactly... hi
            2. Roman_vh
              Roman_vh 13 May 2021 16: 04
              0
              The goat turned into a favorite vegetable garden.
  • svoit
    svoit 13 May 2021 08: 44
    -1
    Quote: Hagen
    It can be assumed that the need for firing in one gulp will disappear as unnecessary, because the goal is to hit the object with one missile.

    That is, you want to say that there will not be many targets and intelligence will not keep up with identifying them?
    1. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock 13 May 2021 09: 24
      +2
      Quote: svoit
      That is, you want to say that there will not be many targets and intelligence will not keep up with identifying them?

      And what's this side?
      It was only about the fact that one smart missile would be used to hit one target, and not a whole salvo of bad ones.
      No Tornado or Hurricane will also be able to fire multiple targets at the same time.
      Although, the Khimars Teyer will be able to fire at two, so you won’t guessed it again.
      1. Intruder
        Intruder 13 May 2021 10: 03
        -1
        No Tornado or Hurricane will also be able to fire multiple targets at the same time.
        Yes, easily, they will launch in the first package of the Smerch, a couple of such, such as: standard 9M534 - an experienced rocket with a small-sized reconnaissance unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) of the Tipchak type. Designed to conduct operational reconnaissance of targets for twenty minutes. In the target area, the UAV descends by parachute, while scanning the situation and transmitting information on the coordinates of the reconnoitered targets to the control complex at a distance of up to 70 km, for prompt decision-making on destruction to the reconnoitered object.
        And if they are, these goals are on an area of ​​672 thousand square meters. m., will be covered massively with a full package ... wink And only there, that very substance and torn footcloths will remain ...
        1. 3danimal
          3danimal 13 May 2021 11: 53
          +1
          Yes, easily, they will launch in the first package of the Smerch, a couple of these, such as: standard 9M534 - an experienced rocket with a small-sized reconnaissance unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) of the Tipchak type

          Not easy. Are you comparing the 15-20 kW F-35 airborne radar with a tiny camera mini UAV?
          How do you know that it is in this area of ​​the territory that there is equipment?
          In addition, if you watched the video, you should have noticed that the ranges there .. are slightly above 70 km. And there is more area for scanning / unrolling.
          It will not be possible "cheaply", you will have to at least make and fly for these purposes the Su-57 (there is no data on the level of mapping accuracy) or the AWACS aircraft of the A-100 type (which must be brought to readiness and started to be produced).
          For 9m534, a much more modest UAV is used (after all, it must be placed in a 300mm Smerch rocket):

          (Photo from the mid-00s exhibition)
          And here everything is with a pitchfork on the water:
          https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4057085

          And here is Tipchak (old device, loitering range up to 40 km)
          1. Intruder
            Intruder 13 May 2021 13: 17
            0
            Are you comparing the 15-20 kW F-35 airborne radar with a tiny camera mini UAV?
            Where did I compare the on-board radar with the optics of a cheap drone, namely on the F-35! ??? You don’t need to speak for me, I can say so myself ... so and so !!! stop
            How do you know that it is in this area of ​​the territory that there is equipment?
            This is elementary, Watson ... there is such as aerial reconnaissance, just cheap and formidable, in contrast to the direction in a given area of ​​targets, aircraft such as the Su-57 and F-35, which can operate on other targets in real combat conditions , but about the range, is it always necessary to have these same 300-400 km.? here and up to 70 km., with a margin to equalize the suddenly discovered disposition of enemy forces, or to collapse a mountain slope, when the barmels go along it bypassing the roads (in a group of 50-100 people with pack animals and drag their primitive pukalki: mortars and non-rollbacks on them same) and other all known ways!
            1. 3danimal
              3danimal 13 May 2021 15: 56
              0
              there is such as aerial reconnaissance

              That is, you still have to use aviation .. In the video from the LM, this is exactly how it is shown, but the F-35 gives the exact target designation. And why do you need a mini-UAV?
              here and up to 70 km., with a margin to equalize the suddenly discovered disposition of enemy forces

              And if we are not talking about barmaley?
              And the Tornado itself will be seen from a distance of 300 + km?
              No Tornado or Hurricane will also be able to fire multiple targets at the same time.

              And if they are, these goals are on an area of ​​672 thousand square meters. m., will be covered massively with a full package

              This decision is from the 80s-90s, and yet the Tornado cannot simultaneously fire at several targets. At least analogs of ATACMS are needed.
          2. Intruder
            Intruder 13 May 2021 13: 20
            0
            AWACS aircraft type A-100
            chasing even one such side for reconnaissance and target designation, but it's easier to hammer them with a shovel and stammer with ankle boots ... these same people from small gangs of formations, I exaggerate of course ... wink
            1. 3danimal
              3danimal 13 May 2021 15: 58
              0
              They also know how to use a shovel, and there is also a suicide bomber belt on every second one. Only from a distance.
              And on the LM video, you can't see the gangsters, and I was talking about him.
        2. Jacket in stock
          Jacket in stock 13 May 2021 14: 25
          +4
          Quote: Intruder
          Yes, it's easy, they will launch in the first Tornado packet, a couple of such,
          ...
          And if they are, these goals are on an area of ​​672 thousand square meters. m., will be covered massively with a full package

          Those. one target you propose to cover as much as two volleys ?!
          Harshly.
          Americans are offered to do it with one rocket.
          And not 70 km, but 400.
          It seems to me that their version is both cheaper and more efficient. Is not?
          1. Roman_vh
            Roman_vh 13 May 2021 16: 09
            +1
            Who knows, Comrade Major, the dog does not take a trace, not our area. (from)
            On the bill it is cheaper with a pitchfork. Why would an American commercial company do something cheaper.
          2. Intruder
            Intruder 13 May 2021 17: 18
            0
            Those. one target you propose to cover as much as two volleys ?!
            Harshly.
            I mean, a couple of such drones for additional reconnaissance of the target ...
            Yes, easily, they will launch in the first package of the Smerch, a couple of these, such as: standard 9M534 - an experienced rocket with a small-sized reconnaissance unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) of the Tipchak type
            whether to cover with a full package or not, this is already decided not by the calculation of the "Tornado", but by people of a higher level and rank! yes
            Severely
            - well ... it's not in the sandbox, throwing shovels with sand ??? laughing
  • Kushka
    Kushka 13 May 2021 13: 09
    0
    Quote: Egoza
    Quote: SovAr238A

    .

    Everything about everything not a single person knows, including you.

    Specialists are of two types - a broad profile and a narrow one.
    If we imagine this in the form of the spirit of diverging straight lines from
    from one point, then the first know everything about everything and nothing about something
    specific. And the latter, on the contrary - everyone knows about nothing and nothing
    about everything.
  • Sergey3
    Sergey3 13 May 2021 13: 14
    0
    What about combat capabilities? Maybe she doesn't need to hit too accurately?
    1. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock 13 May 2021 14: 18
      +1
      Quote: Sergey3
      What about combat capabilities? Maybe she doesn't need to hit too accurately?

      It is not necessary to hit our Iskander, he has a warhead of half a ton.
      And this pukalka just really needs it, because the explosive drain does not fit into it,
      1. Sergey3
        Sergey3 13 May 2021 15: 26
        0
        And where in this article it is written that the explosives runoff does not fit there, and exactly?
        1. Jacket in stock
          Jacket in stock 13 May 2021 15: 41
          0
          Quote: Sergey3
          And where in this article it is written that the explosive stock does not fit there

          There is a video at the end of the article, there is a diagram of a rocket with dimensions.
  • svoit
    svoit 13 May 2021 14: 31
    +1
    Quote: Jacket in stock
    And what's this side?

    Shooting with a volley to hit multiple targets with a direct hit, target designation can be either manual or automatic. Even for several close targets, one missile with several PE Indus may be enough. Hovering
    1. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock 13 May 2021 15: 16
      0
      Quote: svoit
      Even for several close targets, one missile with several PE Indus may be enough. Hovering

      And?
      Americans have them too. What does this have to do with this topic?
    2. Intruder
      Intruder 13 May 2021 17: 22
      0
      Even for several close targets, one missile with several PE Indus may be enough. Hovering
      If they are nearby, a dozen meters away, then it is guaranteed to cover with an array of fragmentation fields and mix with the ground, plus a high-explosive one, there will be outrageous, this is with an OFBCH, in such a caliber, then ... I can’t say about thermobars - I didn’t see it myself. " Tornado "work across the area, but how the hillside is being demolished, it happened with a full package, impressed for a lifetime ... good
  • SiberianGun
    SiberianGun 13 May 2021 15: 34
    0
    "The fact is that missiles with a range exceeding 499 km are already classified as intermediate and shorter-range missiles."
    Something does not converge here - over 499, but refers to the "shorter range". Maybe more?
    1. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock 13 May 2021 16: 28
      +1
      Quote: SiberianGun
      Something does not converge here - over 499, but refers to the "shorter range". Maybe more?

      Here is such a funny classification.
      The range from 1000 km to 5500 km is called "average".
      Accordingly, from 500 to 1000 is called "smaller".
      And up to 500 km - "operational and tactical".
  • Ratmir_Ryazan
    Ratmir_Ryazan 13 May 2021 22: 58
    +1
    I did not understand this from the Americans MLRS such as our Tornado-S or is it an Iskander-type OTRK?
    1. Intruder
      Intruder 14 May 2021 08: 30
      0
      I did not understand this from the Americans MLRS such as our Tornado-S or is it an Iskander-type OTRK?
      This is a castrate based on HIMARS, just a couple, but with the future possibility of installation in the warhead - a hypersonic glider in each rocket, which is just an accelerator stage with trajectory correction systems to accelerate this very "evil" and fast tool of bringing "good and democracy", on several thousand kilometers in hyperspeed flight mode ... lol