Military Review

What Russia lost in Ukraine, what Ukraine lost in Russia

142

Russian-Ukrainian relations, or rather, their complete absence, is a headache for both countries in many sectors. Today we will talk about shipbuilding, which was very painful for both countries. After all, this industry is very knowledge-intensive and requires, in addition to heads, also hands (straight), and technologies, and investments.


And most importantly, shipbuilding is a very important component of the military-industrial complex of any country that has a coastline. After all, this coastline should be at least protected, as a maximum - protected.

So shipbuilding is as important a component of state security as tank building or aviation industry. In all other cases, the products of these industries have to be purchased from those who can sell. And there the options already begin.

Shipbuilding industry of Ukraine. This is a very controversial thing. Before the revolution, of course, there was something like that on the territory, and the ships were built under Prince Potemkin, who founded shipyards near the city of Nikolaev.

But the main formation of the shipbuilding industry in Ukraine took place during the Soviet era, when the construction of factories was launched in the Ukrainian SSR, as part of the unified state that was the USSR. Including shipbuilding.

And when the Soviet Union collapsed, Ukraine got just an excellent production base, which made it possible to build submarines, boats, large surface ships of different classes: rocket-artillery, landing, mine-sweeping.

And, most importantly, the production base was backed up by a scientific base that allows for R&D of a wide variety of plans.

How much did Ukraine get?

Nikolaev - 5 enterprises
Kiev - 3
Kerch - 3
Kherson - 2
Simferopol - 1
Sevastopol - 1
Odessa - 1
Kryvyi Rih - 1
Pervomaisk - 1

There are 18 enterprises in total. 6 of them are large assembly shipyards - "Nikolaevsky", "Chernomorsky", "Leninskaya Kuznya", "Zaliv", "Sevmorzavod" and "More".

The latest large orders from Ukrainian shipyards during the Soviet era are impressive. They fall at the end of the last century. These are aircraft carrier cruisers of Project 1143 "Krechet", one of which is still in the Russian Navy, missile cruisers of Project 1164 "Atlant", patrol ships of Project 11351 "Nereus", small anti-submarine ships of projects 1124 "Albatross" and 11451 "Sokol".

It really was the peak of the Ukrainian shipbuilding industry.


And then the era of independence began. And along with it came the unexpected: the accumulated Soviet ties collapsed and together with them a situation emerged when Ukrainian own capabilities in the construction of ships significantly outstripped the country's needs for ships.

There are fewer orders, fewer funding, fewer in total. And immediately the outflow of personnel began, because if the shipyard at the very least can exist due to the repair and docking of already operating ships, then, alas, the design bureaus. R&D is always new. No design work - no constructors needed. And the outflow of personnel begins. To other industries, to other countries.

By and large, this is termed industry degradation.

And since the degradation of the entire industry begins with an inevitable outflow of self-respecting qualified personnel, a wave of bankruptcies is quite expected. And where there is bankruptcy, there is a general symphony of destruction.

So in Nikolaev in 1992, the TAVKR "Ulyanovsk" was cut, in Kerch in 1995 one of the "Nereev". Now, according to the decision of the Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine, the last of the Atlantes, the former cruiser Admiral Lobov, and now Ukraine, will be cut by 90%.

In Ukraine it was decided that "Ukraine" should be scrapped.


The degradation and destruction of the Ukrainian shipbuilding industry, perhaps, was completed by the crisis of 2013-2014 and the decision of the people of Crimea caused by the crisis to move to permanent residence in Russia.

As a result, Ukraine lost its shipyards Zaliv (Kerch) and More (Feodosia), enterprises of Sevastopol and Simferopol. As a result, there were no enterprises engaged in the production of auxiliary ships, repairs, and a number of research organizations.

Not fatal. This is not Nikolaev, although it is also unpleasant. Today, the Ukrainian side has lost a very important production of ship automation, components of naval equipment associated with polymer composite materials and fiberglass.

In addition, there are ship repair enterprises and an enterprise for the repair of marine diesel engines.

There is, in principle, not so little left. Thirteen businesses. Nine production, one - ship repair, three - research.

The enterprises remaining at the disposal of Ukraine are enough to cover all the country's needs in the creation and maintenance of naval equipment and, if not to talk about repairs, there remains a great potential for export.


Assembly plants make up more than half of the total and are concentrated in the south of the country, in Nikolaev. These are the plants "Nikolaevskaya Verf" (former "Black Sea Shipbuilding Plant") and SE "Nikolaevsky Shipyard" (former "Shipyard named after 61 Communards").

Engines are produced in the same Nikolaev and Pervomaisk, machine components in Kherson and Krivoy Rog. Design and research organizations are based in Nikolaev, Kiev and Kherson. The repair company is located in Odessa. There is one diversified enterprise, the Kiev Kuznya na Rybalskiy plant, the former Leninskaya Kuznya plant, which produces radio electronics and armored elements.

In addition, there are four enterprises in Kiev, which in their products have a lot on the ship theme:
- SE "Orizon-navigation", produces navigation systems;
- SE "Research Institute of Radar Systems" Quantum-Radar ", which develops and manufactures shipborne radar systems;
- SE "Kiev State Plant" Burevestnik ", radar systems;
- JSC "Kiev Automation Plant", ship automation systems.

In addition to the Ukrainian pearl of shipbuilding - Nikolaev, as you can see, there are many enterprises capable of satisfying any order for naval equipment.

However, the situation in shipbuilding in Ukraine is far from ideal, quite the opposite. What can the industry boast about?

Three Project 12322 Zubr landing ships for the Chinese and Greek navies.
Completion of the Project 1991 Albatross corvette, laid down in 1124.

The construction of the corvette of project 58250 "Vladimir the Great" has been frozen.
Completion of the construction of the cruiser "Ukraine" and the aircraft-carrying cruiser of the project 1143 "Varyag" was stopped with the subsequent sale of the ship to the PRC.

Not much. BUT история with "Ukraine" in general is the best illustration of what is happening in the country's shipbuilding, despite the fact that it is controlled by politicians.

Missile cruiser "Admiral fleet Lobov "was founded in the summer of 1984 in Nikolaev. I met the independence of Ukraine in the degree of readiness 75% It was renamed to "Ukraine". And in 1994, the construction was stopped for lack of funding.

In 1998, construction was resumed and by 2000 the degree of completion reached 95%. Russia offered to buy the ship. The option was not bad, since the maintenance of such a large ship cost 3-4 million dollars a year. The manufacturer was unable to carry such an encumbrance.

In 2013, a preliminary agreement was concluded on the purchase of the ship by Russia for 1 billion rubles. But in 2014, in the wake of the coup in Ukraine, all agreements were canceled.

As a result, despite the assurances of President Zelensky, the Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine decided to demilitarize the ship, dismantle weapons, navigation equipment and subsequent sale. Perhaps for scrap.

Things were no better with the projects for the construction and completion of ships of smaller classes.

Corvettes project 58250. The program in 2005 provided for the construction of four ships with the delivery of the lead in 2012. The project was estimated at 16 billion hryvnia ($ 2 billion) in 2011 prices. However, the financing was carried out so well that it was not possible to build even the lead ship Vladimir the Great, laid down in 2011. Today the ship is 43% ready.

The rest of the ships were not even laid down, there is information that work on the ships of the project will resume after 2022.

Apart from corvettes, the construction of Project 09104 Kalkan-P patrol boats, Lan and Vespa high-speed combat boats was not implemented.

From the successes of Ukrainian shipbuilders, one can point to the construction of seven patrol boats of the project 58155 "Gyurza-M" in 2016-2020 and two boats of the project 58503 "Centaur-LK", which were launched but not completed.

The construction of the eighth boat "Gyurza-M" and the third boat "Centavr-LK" was suspended due to the coronavirus epidemic.

And despite the presence of such a production base, the Ukrainian government is trying to buy ships abroad. Naturally, on credit. In November 2020, the Cabinet of Ministers approved the purchase of 20 French-made OCEA FPB 98 MKI boats for $ 150 million, 85% of which are borrowed funds.

Five out of twenty boats will be built in Nikolaev, fifteen in France. Not a very fair division, but since the money is given by European banks, they determine who and where will build equipment.

In the same 2020, in October, the Ministers of Defense of Ukraine and Great Britain signed a memorandum on the construction of eight large missile boats for the Ukrainian Navy. The project is British, money for it in the amount of $ 1,5 billion is allocated by British banks and credit agencies. For a period of 10 years. The first two boats will be built in Great Britain, four at Ukrainian enterprises.

It is sad. One side. The vast experience accumulated by Ukrainian enterprises and research institutes, especially the experience of building large ships during the Soviet period, production and scientific potential - everything turned out to be simply squandered during the years of independence.

The Ukrainian shipbuilding industry has lost the ability to build ships of even small tonnage. The Ukrainian state has lost the ability to finance the shipbuilding industry.

The huge production capacities of the unique shipbuilding conglomeration in Nikolaev turned out to be absolutely not in demand. For three decades of independence, it has not been possible to implement a single major program either for the Ukrainian Navy or for foreign fleets.

The main problem is the lack of money from the state. Hence the attempts to obtain ships for the fleet by obtaining loans from foreign factories. To the detriment of their industry.

The result is absolutely deplorable: Ukrainian shipbuilding is not able to build ships of a class higher than a corvette. But even building a boat is problematic. Mostly financial in nature.

However, the construction of boats in France and Great Britain with borrowed money will not help Nikolaev and Kherson in any way.

Meanwhile, Russia could become the only potential buyer and customer for Ukrainian enterprises. Yes, we need the enterprises of Nikolaev, where it is possible to build large ships, we need the remnants of shipbuilding personnel.
The most interesting thing is that at one time Russia was ready to pay for all this. Even for a cruiser built with our money.

But the political madness that has seized Ukraine will not even allow the last of the Atlantes to be sold to Russia. Here, by the way, it would be worthwhile to attract intermediaries from among our friendly countries and acquire the former "Ukraine". A cruiser would really come in handy.

This material is the best, from my point of view, shows how sad it turns out when politicians (mediocre) begin to dictate their terms to everyone. After all, if not for the remarkable national "policy" of Ukraine in 2014, then neither Crimea nor Donbass would have happened. And Russian rubles would have flowed to the cash desks of the factories of Kerch, Nikolaev, Krivoy Rog and Kiev.

Ukraine has forgotten only money in Russia. Very big, however, money. Russia could get at its disposal the production capacities of Nikolaev, which we are sorely lacking today. But it is doubtful that the situation will be reversed. Politics...
Author:
142 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Peak
    Peak 15 May 2021 03: 53
    +35
    It really was the peak of the Ukrainian shipbuilding industry.


    What kind of Ukraine are we talking about? About the Soviet period of the Ukrainian SSR?

    Then, in general, it is more correct to talk about the general potential of the Union's shipbuilding.
    And so, there is a confusion between warm and soft.

    Or someone can say that the ship and shipbuilding in the newly independent Ukraine was not destroyed almost immediately, and in general no longer existed as an industry, a complex?
    1. Bashkirkhan
      Bashkirkhan 15 May 2021 06: 09
      +15
      It is about pouring unthinkable money into Soviet Ukraine. At the same time, the communists carefully nurtured an independent Ukrainian people with their own separate history and language. These commies were transferred to Ukraine by Russian lands with Russian people. We presented Crimea with a fleet base in Sevastopol. They arranged forcible Ukrainization in the shortest possible time - with the dismissal of those who did not learn the language, and without observing labor laws. The division of the common house into maximally autonomous "national apartments" took place in accordance with the policy of the party and government. And the Constitution with "sovereign states" and "the right to exit" was also written by the commies.
      Excerpt from the 1977 Constitution of the USSR - "Article 72. Each union republic retains the right to freely secede from the USSR."
      Article 76. The Union Republic is a sovereign Soviet socialist state, which has united with other Soviet republics into the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. "
      By 1991, each republic of the union had its own ministries, they were self-sufficient and the constitution of the USSR made it possible to secede from the union. In Central Asia, the Soviet republics generally degenerated into appanage khanates.
      As a result, in 1991 the RSFSR was left on the Black Sea without a fleet base, dry docks and ship turbines.
      1. Jager
        Jager 15 May 2021 20: 32
        +14
        Yes, if not for the communists, western Ukraine would be under Poland.
        "And here the commies are to blame" - Are you a fan of Novodvorskaya by chance?
        1. Mercenary
          Mercenary 26 May 2021 19: 27
          +2
          Here pshekam zapadentsi ass and licked. As they have always done. And now the Selukas are spreading rot on the outskirts of Russia, imposing a language that is not in nature (trimming of Polish-Hungarian-Romanian)
      2. umah
        umah 15 May 2021 21: 17
        +6
        Sometimes there are situations where limb amputation saves the victim. My opinion is that Ukraine needs to be cut off. Economically, politically. And let them cook in their pride. Other "allies" will be an example.
        1. Uma palata
          Uma palata 17 May 2021 11: 09
          +1
          Do not cut it off, but take it under your wing when this misunderstanding disintegrates.
          1. your1970
            your1970 18 May 2021 18: 05
            +1
            Quote: Uma Palata
            Do not cut it off, but take it under your wing when this misunderstanding disintegrates.

            Why do we need a corpse? With a completely collapsed economy and aggressive residents?
            1. Uma palata
              Uma palata 22 May 2021 02: 40
              0
              Let the corpse float along the river, like that ax from the village of Kukuev. Only the reasonable will go under the wing. The cunning will remain in Kukuev.
              1. your1970
                your1970 22 May 2021 13: 04
                +2
                Quote: Uma Palata
                The cunning will remain in Kukuev.

                Alas, the cunning will be in the forefront, and the most cunning will lead these ranks. And we absolutely do not need them ...
    2. Cheshire
      Cheshire 15 May 2021 06: 14
      +8
      Indeed, Ukraine did not need most of what the USSR invested in it, as well as smart, active people who had gone in different directions in 30 years. It is sad, pitiful to look at the agony of the rudimentary state.
      1. private person
        private person 15 May 2021 16: 02
        +9
        It is sad, pitiful to look at the agony of the rudimentary state.

        Is it different in Russia? Look at what the Volgograd Tractor Cheboksary Tractor and many other factories have become.
        1. max702
          max702 15 May 2021 21: 38
          -4
          Quote: private person
          It is sad, pitiful to look at the agony of the rudimentary state.

          Is it different in Russia? Look at what the Volgograd Tractor Cheboksary Tractor and many other factories have become.

          My answer is different in Russia! Do not feed MTZ and KhTZ and Volgogradsky and others would not be bent .. Although the same Cheboksary works quite well .. https://www.chetra.ru/. And in general, everything is not so bad with tractors, so stop lying.
          1. private person
            private person 16 May 2021 18: 18
            -1
            And in general, everything is not so bad with tractors, so stop lying.

            And who said that the tractors are bad? But who makes them? And so many more old heritage of the once mighty USSR. Have you been to ChTZ yourself or just by the news on TV, do you judge?
            1. max702
              max702 16 May 2021 21: 05
              +1
              Quote: private person
              Have you been to ChTZ yourself or just by the news on TV, do you judge?

              Of course not ! To you! I exclusively believe you, you are our non-pleasant and light-faced!
              Here are collected Russian manufacturers of tractors and special equipment in the amount of 74 pieces. There is an opportunity to select tractor plants of the desired region, get acquainted with the products
              https://fabricators.ru/proizvodstvo/traktornye-zavody
              1. private person
                private person 16 May 2021 21: 15
                -2
                Of course not ! To you! I exclusively believe you, you are our non-pleasant and light-faced!
                Fuck you NOT SMART PERSON, look at the fields whose tractor is there. GET OUT OF THE COMP AND LOOK AROUND.
                1. max702
                  max702 16 May 2021 21: 22
                  -3
                  Burnt out? Atlantean!
            2. PROXOR
              PROXOR 17 May 2021 12: 36
              +2
              You are welcome. Small-medium MTZ, large Kirovsky and Rosselmash. Combines Rosselmash and Palese. And we produce almost the entire hinge ourselves. There are holes in the good planters and satellite positioning. But this is a fixable thing. Vaughn recently read about the Kuzbass seeding complex: https://agrokem.ru/posevnoj-kompleks-kuzbass/ Everything is done here. At the very least, we are moving forward.
        2. Romario_Argo
          Romario_Argo 16 May 2021 15: 44
          0
          site "Made with us" to help - just for Russophobes (!)
        3. Non liberoid Russian
          Non liberoid Russian 2 June 2021 10: 09
          0
          uhahaha, the familiar mantras of the pseudo-left ... what is new, or will you be procrastinating?))))
      2. Barkun
        Barkun 16 May 2021 08: 43
        -1
        Hmm. Colleague, did you notice that none of the former Soviet republics really needed what the USSR invested in them? Even Russia (if we talk about industrial potential and not talk about production and primary processing, but there are also nuances here). The exception is Belarus, but there are some subtleties here. The union is a complex, the republics are clusters. What is in demand by the complex does not necessarily need a separate cluster, if it is by itself.
    3. antivirus
      antivirus 15 May 2021 07: 50
      +8
      whose Crimea? and whose Odessa and Kherson? - the answer to the revival of shipbuilding
    4. Pravodel
      Pravodel 16 May 2021 16: 35
      +8
      [quote ...] the ship and shipbuilding in ... independent Ukraine was destroyed almost immediately, and in general no longer existed as an industry [/ quote]
      That would be better.
      To the author of the post: Not в Ukraine and on Ukraine. Similarly, on Cuba, and not in Cuba, on Madagascar, rather than in Madagascar, etc ... In Cuba, it happens only in mathematics. When it comes to Ukraine, Cuba, Madagascar, it is "AT", but not "в".
      Banderlogs have a disease: they, Banderlog, live в Ukraine, but like all other Russian people, live on Ukraine and dream of their liberation, they are waiting for when they will be able to live, work, raise children in peace on Ukraine, without the freaks who occupied Ukraine ...
      A small parallel. There, in the Tribaltic, there are also some people for whom Tallinn is not Tallinn, but Talllllliiiiiinnnnn .. And the more l, and, n, the more correct resident, citizen. And everyone who does not use a lot of lllll, iiiii, nnnnn, those are wrong, non-citizens.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Maxxcc
        Maxxcc 16 May 2021 18: 01
        .
        That is, ON France, ON Lithuania, ON Belarus and ON Russia?))))
        Your spelling is strange
        1. max702
          max702 16 May 2021 21: 08
          +4
          Quote: Maxxcc
          That is, ON France, ON Lithuania, ON Belarus and ON Russia?))))
          Your spelling is strange

          When will you forget the Russian language? And go to your veal mov ..
        2. Konnick
          Konnick 16 May 2021 21: 14
          +2
          That is, ON France, ON Lithuania, ON Belarus and ON Russia?))))
          Your spelling is strange

          This is strange for you

          Yak die, then cheer
          Mene at the grave,
          Sereda is wide,
          On Ukrainian Miles,
          Shchob fallow deer broad,
          І Dnіpro, і kruchі
          Bulo is visible, Bulo is almost
          Yak roaring.
          Yak carry from Ukraine
          At the blue sea
      3. 2 Level Advisor
        2 Level Advisor 16 May 2021 20: 05
        -7
        but about England, Uruguay, Italy, what can you say? you have logic .. wassat I myself often say "in" Ukraine, I'm used to it, but if it's direct about correctness from the point of view of the Russian language, then all the same "in"
        1. Pravodel
          Pravodel 17 May 2021 07: 29
          +4
          if it is straight about correctness from the point of view of the Russian language, then all the same "in"

          It's a delusion. The preposition "in", as well as the preposition "on", have equal use in the Russian language, and are used in accordance with the norms of the Russian language. For example, butter is smeared on bread, but things are put in a cupboard, but, perhaps, on a cupboard.
          In addition to the normative use, the preposition "on" also has a traditional use associated with speech patterns, as in the case of "in" Ukraine, "in" Cuba, "in" Madagascar, etc. "
          As A.S. Pushkin: "like a ruddy bush without a smile, I really don't like Russian without a grammatical error."
          These grammatical errors, which A.S. speaks about, make up the beauty of the Russian language, which, in addition to the norms, allows itself to use speech patterns that differ from the standards, which are also fixed as the norms of the Russian language.
          Therefore, dear "Level 2 Advisor (Nikolai)"" in "Ukraine," in "Madagascar," in "Cuba, but in England, in Scotland, in Italy, in India, in China, etc. You can continue this series yourself.
          Learn and love the great and mighty Russian language. It is much richer than other languages.
          1. 2 Level Advisor
            2 Level Advisor 17 May 2021 09: 39
            -3
            Yes, I do not argue .. I myself say "on" .. the question arose: maybe Cuba and Madagascar - because the names are geographical and islands? After all, in Sardinia, but in Italy .. I think that if about Ukraine as the Outskirts of the Republic of Ingushetia, then "on", and if as a country then "in" .. that's why I think so and so it is not a mistake, although Ukraine is still time, not the outskirts of our country .. but at the same time "in Ukraine" is not a mistake ..
            1. Pravodel
              Pravodel 17 May 2021 10: 40
              +2
              ... geographical names and islands? After all, in Sardinia, but in Italy .. if about Ukraine as the Outskirts of the Republic of Ingushetia, then "on", and if as a country, then "in" ..

              This is due to the peculiarities of the Russian language and the correspondence between sound and spelling, the best sound for the ear. The Russian language reduces spelling to sound. This is not the case, for example, in English or French, where the spelling does not match the sound.
              1. 2 Level Advisor
                2 Level Advisor 17 May 2021 10: 42
                0
                thanks for answering the question hi
      4. The comment was deleted.
  2. svp67
    svp67 15 May 2021 04: 45
    +24
    Russia has lost more in this confrontation. Alas ... Even after the collapse of the USSR, Russia invested a huge pile of money in the Ukrainian economy, to the detriment of its own development, and now it is forced to compensate for all this. Yes, over time it is clear that this will benefit our country, but it is already underway, but now it is very difficult, in fact, to build new industries
    1. Pessimist22
      Pessimist22 15 May 2021 05: 11
      +6
      Because competent people who were supposed to conduct "work" in Ukraine were plundering Russia, and Putin has been reigning since 2000, but why did the "partners" from overseas put their people in power, while we, in fact, allowed this in our domain.
      1. Narak-zempo
        Narak-zempo 15 May 2021 08: 26
        -9
        Do you doubt Putin's competence in the Ukrainian issue? After Crimea was returned ?!
        I would be careful not to do that.
        Or, perhaps, the late Chernomyrdin and Zurabov worked incompetently?
        It is not Russia's fault that the kakly bought into the beautiful obitsyanki-tsyatsyanki of the West instead of the not so beautiful, but real benefits of cooperation.
        1. lis-ik
          lis-ik 15 May 2021 09: 11
          +4
          Quote: Narak-zempo
          Do you doubt Putin's competence in the Ukrainian issue? After Crimea was returned ?!

          Putin made the decision to return Crimea through I can’t and under the pressure of circumstances (otherwise the people would not have understood), he personally didn’t put a finger on his finger. It is difficult to call it competence, and not connivance and connivance with the West in the situation with Donbass and the notorious Minsk agreements that no one needs.
          1. private person
            private person 15 May 2021 16: 08
            -8
            indulging the west in the situation with Donbass

            Donbass itself in the 90s decided that it would be better with Ukraine, and now they are reaping the benefits. And the Crimea was simply a gift from the Ukrainian SSR. There is no Ukrainian SSR, and Crimea returned to its rightful owner, that is, Russia.
          2. 16329
            16329 15 May 2021 22: 12
            -1
            There was no pressure on Putin, with the exception of geopolitical issues, and the people had nothing to do with it.
          3. Normal ok
            Normal ok 16 May 2021 00: 18
            +2
            Quote: lis-ik
            Quote: Narak-zempo
            Do you doubt Putin's competence in the Ukrainian issue? After Crimea was returned ?!

            Putin made the decision to return Crimea through I can’t and under the pressure of circumstances (otherwise the people would not have understood), he personally didn’t put a finger on his finger. It is difficult to call it competence, and not connivance and connivance with the West in the situation with Donbass and the notorious Minsk agreements that no one needs.

            I will tell you as an officer - .... To carry out such an operation as the seizure of Crimea, it was necessary to plan from afar.
        2. svp67
          svp67 15 May 2021 09: 19
          +17
          Quote: Narak-zempo
          Or, perhaps, the late Chernomyrdin and Zurabov worked incompetently?

          Yes, NOT COMPETENT ... The first was concerned only with the fact that Ukraine would properly work as a country with a "hose" through which oil, gas, nitrogen were transported to the West ... And the second was not at all clear what he was doing ... with Poroshenko ... There was no purposeful work to keep Ukraine.
          1. Narak-zempo
            Narak-zempo 15 May 2021 09: 58
            -2
            Quote: svp67
            There was no purposeful work to keep Ukraine.

            That is, the fact that we pumped huge amounts of money into their economy, in fact, fed 100% parasites, was not enough to "hold"?
            1. svp67
              svp67 15 May 2021 10: 04
              +11
              Quote: Narak-zempo
              That is, the fact that we pumped huge amounts of money into their economy, in fact, fed 100% parasites, was not enough to "hold"?

              Practice has shown that NO. We should have had more influence on domestic politics
              1. Vladimir Mashkov
                Vladimir Mashkov 15 May 2021 15: 01
                +8
                The novel quite accurately described the state of ship and shipbuilding in / in Ukraine.
                However, I forgot to mention that in Nikolaev there is another powerful plant "Ocean" (now slightly working) and a small one - "Nibulon", which builds transshipment barges for transporting grain to the roadstead, repairs and builds small ships in limited quantities. And that it was in Nikolaev that the formerly unique in the USSR production of turbines and gas turbines for ships, ships, gas pumping (now languishing) is located and there was a number of other related shipbuilding enterprises.

                Only a bleeding memory remained, concentrated in museums (shipbuilding, departmental at factories, local history) and closed, mothballed buildings and overgrown territories and ruins of factories (once busy and crowded, but now deserted) with gutted clean empty boxes of previously industrial buildings with broken windows , in which only the wind walks today ...
                1. svp67
                  svp67 15 May 2021 16: 15
                  +8
                  Quote: Vladimir Mashkov
                  The novel quite accurately described the state of ship and shipbuilding in / in Ukraine.
                  I forgot, however, to mention that

                  All this, although it was in Ukraine, actually worked for Russia and for its money. It's the same with aircraft, nuclear and rocket industries.
                  1. Vladimir Mashkov
                    Vladimir Mashkov 15 May 2021 16: 19
                    +1
                    Quote: svp67
                    actually worked for Russia

                    Worked for the Russian Empire, the USSR and will work for Russia! smile
                    1. svp67
                      svp67 15 May 2021 16: 23
                      +8
                      Quote: Vladimir Mashkov
                      and will work for Russia

                      I think not already ... "she died, she died." Who of the shipbuilders wants, please go to Crimea, St. Petersburg or Bolshoi Kamen
                      1. Vladimir Mashkov
                        Vladimir Mashkov 15 May 2021 16: 26
                        0
                        Quote: svp67
                        I think not already ... "she died, she died." Who of the shipbuilders wants, please go to Crimea, St. Petersburg or Bolshoi Kamen

                        I do not agree with you, I think otherwise. And which of us is right - time will judge. Only to live ...
                      2. Alex777
                        Alex777 15 May 2021 17: 14
                        0
                        In 5 years everything will be. We will live. wink
                      3. dog of war
                        dog of war 15 May 2021 18: 57
                        +2
                        To live - to live to what?
          2. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 17 May 2021 15: 36
            +1
            Quote: Narak-zempo
            That is, the fact that we pumped huge amounts of money into their economy, in fact, fed 100% parasites, was not enough to "hold"?

            Exactly! Instead of regular and methodical work with cadres - training, education and promotion of the new pro-Russian elite in Ukraine (preferably from scratch, because the old cadres are 146% weathercocks) - we gave up on work and simply paid the existing elite. And it is not pro-Western and not pro-Russian - it is all for money. How much you don’t pay her, but if someone offers more or better, she will immediately jump there, despite all the previous investments.
            Well, the weather vane cannot adhere to any position. smile
        3. Xenofont
          Xenofont 15 May 2021 10: 35
          +6
          The latter, the Zurab, started a personal business and was very successful in it. And in general, ambassadors to the former Soviet republics have acted, and sometimes still act, as lobbyists for the interests of the host countries in the Kremlin. Alas! Belarus is another vivid example before Ambassador Babich, and his fate is quite typical.
      2. NEOZ
        NEOZ 15 May 2021 14: 30
        -1
        Quote: Narak-zempo
        I would be careful not to do that.

        you are having a discussion with a person who adheres to simple solutions: remove bad people (put) good people to leadership positions, everyone !!!!!!! It is done!!!!!!
  • mmaxx
    mmaxx 15 May 2021 04: 54
    +28
    To create accents. There was no shipbuilding industry in any Ukraine. It was either Russian or Soviet.
    And what the descendants of the Bandera supporters need is understandable. As well as it is clear that the lovers of pigs and Europe do not need ships at all.
    I can't understand one thing: why do people think that we need Ukraine as a country and something in it?
    Russia was there, so it should be. Then there will be at least some sense in this territory.
    1. Ros 56
      Ros 56 15 May 2021 05: 55
      +2
      That's right, I absolutely agree. hi
  • Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 15 May 2021 05: 45
    +12
    In 2000, the conspiracy in Belovezhskaya Pushcha should have been canceled.
    And in the early 90s, the employees of the KGB of the USSR were simply obliged to destroy everyone and everything that led to separatism (up to the seventh generation, so as not to be confused), and what did they do? And now we are concerned ...
    Novel! Do you not know that it was not money that tied the RSFSR and the Ukrainian SSR and that ordinary citizens were not in their heads about this:
    Ukraine has forgotten only money in Russia. Very big, however, money. Russia could get at its disposal the production capacities of Nikolaev, which we are sorely lacking today. But it is doubtful that the situation will be reversed. Politics...

    It was in the 90s that we were divided into "masters" and "slaves" and until this changes, nothing good will happen.
    1. 210ox
      210ox 15 May 2021 06: 28
      +7
      Yes, we do. Only one of them immediately went to the West and leaked everything and everyone, while the other continues to talk about "Soviet galoshes". That's all the KGB was then.
    2. Narak-zempo
      Narak-zempo 15 May 2021 08: 28
      +1
      Quote: ROSS 42
      It was in the 90s that we were divided into "masters" and "slaves"

      Restored divine order.
    3. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 15 May 2021 11: 13
      0
      And in the early 90s, the employees of the KGB of the USSR were simply obliged to destroy everyone and everything that led to separatism (up to the seventh generation, so as not to be confused), and what did they do? And now we are concerned ...

      If you have read the memoirs of Kryuchkov, the last leader of this charitable organization, then in the first volume there is his autobiography, and in the second - a long whining on the topic "why I did not do anything in this position."
      1. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 15 May 2021 12: 04
        +5
        Quote: Aviator_
        If you have read Kryuchkov's memoirs,

        There were people without Kryuchkov who explained who was behind the collapse of the USSR. Believe me, without the "office" there a fly would not have landed where it should not. And then ... Do you remember who EBN was? It was in the media (mainly in magazines and newspapers) that he was positioned as some kind of rebel. A mediocre, incompetent, alcohol-prone party official who was asked and agreed. He had neither a program of action, nor a party of like-minded people ... It was just that Yeltsin arranged both the "office" and the "Washington regional committee."
        Many senior officers were spitting, not looking at Yeltsin's "quirks".
        Kryuchkov could be read, but this is not the person whose opinion you need to be interested in. I haven't read Chubais either. By the way, do the top officials of the current leadership have printed works worthy of reading?
        1. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 15 May 2021 12: 15
          +5
          The point is not how substantial Chubais is. Nobody cares about the puppet's opinion. Kryuchkov is disgusting with his attempts to excuse himself - "and I have nothing to do with it." Very much even to do with it. In its mildest form, this is called criminal inaction. And today's leaders only memorize the speeches of speechwriters, not to their memoirs.
          1. Ross xnumx
            Ross xnumx 15 May 2021 12: 19
            +5
            Quote: Aviator_
            Very much even to do with it.

            There are so many people who find themselves "with" and "with someone" that their hair stands on end. But today, dozens of years later, they want to be considered immaculate angels ... And all that is needed is to evaluate the purse stuffed with them and their position in society. Everything immediately becomes clear.
      2. marat2016
        marat2016 16 May 2021 13: 53
        0
        What do you mean the KGB did nothing? As a rule, nationalist organizations were thoroughly imbued with agents of the GB, often created by a committee. The question is whether they were originally created for the collapse of the Union or not.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 17 May 2021 15: 38
          0
          Quote: marat2016
          What do you mean the KGB didn't do anything? As a rule, nationalist organizations were thoroughly saturated with agents of the State Security Service, often created by a committee.

          Republican the committee.
          For even the KGB in the USSR was taken away to national apartments.
          1. marat2016
            marat2016 18 May 2021 19: 04
            0
            The KGB was a centralized structure, no independent decisions were made there (in the republics of the USSR).
    4. Captain Pushkin
      Captain Pushkin 15 May 2021 19: 11
      +5
      Quote: ROSS 42
      And in the early 90s, the employees of the KGB of the USSR were simply obliged to destroy everyone and everything that led to separatism (up to the seventh generation, so as not to be confused), and what did they do?

      Do you think that the coup of 1991 and the collapse of the USSR would have been possible without the participation of the top and middle management of the KGB in this?
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 15 May 2021 05: 54
    +3
    Roman, the role of the striped and the West in general is not reflected in your article and of course the Bandera Natsiks and local oligarchs. And without these participants there can be no objective analysis. So, the tops knocked down, but did not dig into the depths, because it was not in itself that the shipbuilding of the Banderlog hunted. An article on a C grade.
  • Cottodraton
    Cottodraton 15 May 2021 06: 21
    +15
    Not "in", but "on". Enough to distort and change the rules of the Russian language for the sake of the Banderstadt camarilla. Still, under these we would not bend, with their "vision".
    As for the losses - so thanks to the "first president of the USSR and co" with their new thinking.
    The Ukrainian SSR lost the most, as it could not make anything independent for 30+ years.
    Instead of developing as a truly independent state, Ukraine has chosen the dumbest and easiest way - to lie under another "patron", while getting as much as possible with its parent ...
    As a result, both the parent actually renounced and the "patron" stupidly uses ...
    And not here and not there ... this is the case for the majority of "Young Europeans". The classic roadside customer battle by the side of the road ...
    1. storm
      storm 15 May 2021 21: 28
      +2
      Ukraine is now in the role of an elderly prostitute, which is not often "used" and for cheap, and her parents have long renounced her ...
  • URAL72
    URAL72 15 May 2021 06: 47
    +8
    The author underestimated Kherson. There is a ship repair and shipbuilding facility with a capacity of up to 40 thousand tons. In Novaya Kakhov there was a Sokol plant, - built as a replacement for Taganrog, - sonar and electronics, incl. civil. Amplifiers "Bark" for example. To any tape recorder, 4 outputs of 60 watts. It was a cool thing. Components for shipbuilding, ship paint were made by hundreds of factories. Mariupol was the only one in the USSR to make steel for the nuclear submarine ... The loss is catastrophic, one article is not enough.
  • Kot_Kuzya
    Kot_Kuzya 15 May 2021 06: 49
    +7
    Enchanting pearl from Sumerian lol
    ... Here, by the way, it would be worthwhile to attract intermediaries from among our friendly countries and acquire the former "Ukraine". A cruiser would really come in handy.

    Which countries are friendly to Ukraine? Poland? Lithuania? Latvia? Estonia? Turkey? Britannia? USA? Yes,
    The cruiser laid down 40 years ago, already half rotted, would be very useful for the USA or Estonia laughing ... Even 10 years ago, Serdyukov, being the Ministry of Defense, said that Russia would take "Ukraine" only for nothing, since it was of no value. Even he understood it then. And for 10 years, "Ukraine" has become even more rusted and outdated, it is now only good for pins and needles.
    Of course, I understand that non-brothers are not very smart, but typing such nonsense? !!!! And they sincerely believe in it! Keep jumping in the same spirit! It's funny to watch you. You are so funny.
    1. Avior
      Avior 15 May 2021 07: 17
      .
      ... 10 years ago Serdyukov, being the Ministry of Defense, said that Russia would take "Ukraine" only for nothing

      Then, when Serdyukov was kicked out, they offered 1 billion rubles, to which Ukraine agreed, but the moment was missed - they did not have time to complete the deal, and practically the only chance for the fleet to get a new warship in the ocean zone disappeared.
      This is Serdyukov's contribution to strengthening the Russian Navy.
      1. Kot_Kuzya
        Kot_Kuzya 15 May 2021 08: 39
        +10
        Again enchanting delirium.
        Quote: Avior
        the deal was not completed in time, and almost the only chance for the fleet to get a new warship in the ocean zone disappeared.

        To buy a ship pledged 40 years ago for a billion rubles, which is hopelessly outdated and rusted through - is it in your opinion to get a "new warship of the ocean zone"? Why do the Sumerians consider themselves the smartest and that they can sell worthless trash for a high price?
        In addition, in Russia there are still 3 ships of the same series with the "Ukraine" in service, and two twice as heavy series "Orlan". Moreover, these ships are already considered obsolete, and in the next 10 years they will probably go to write-off. So there is no point in taking this Ukrainian trash even for nothing.
        1. Avior
          Avior 15 May 2021 08: 58
          .
          rusted through

          no need to invent
          in Russia there are still in service 3 ships of the same series as "Ukraine", and two twice as heavy series "Orlan". Moreover, these ships are already considered obsolete, and in the next 10 years they will probably go to write-off.

          namely, that in 10 years, therefore, their modernization is impractical.
          And this is a new ship of the class, which is not possible to build in the foreseeable future.
          1. Kot_Kuzya
            Kot_Kuzya 15 May 2021 09: 20
            +6
            Quote: Avior
            And this is a new ship of the class, which is not possible to build in the foreseeable future.

            What's new? The ones that were laid 40 years ago and rusted on the dock for 40 years?
            1. Avior
              Avior 15 May 2021 09: 27
              -8
              so that it was in construction, not in use.
              especially since there was an opportunity to change the project at the construction stage.
              when the question arose, the ship was only 75 percent ready - in fact, there was no weapons yet.
              but now it makes no sense to talk about it
              1. Alexey RA
                Alexey RA 17 May 2021 15: 43
                0
                Quote: Avior
                so that it was in construction, not in use.

                He was not in construction. And it was not even in conservation. Since the collapse of the USSR, he stood and rusted at the factory wall.
                I can remind you that such a crap was done with the hull of the KRL "Admiral Butakov":
                The survey of the ship was carried out from September 2 to September 14 at the dock. Mitrofanov in Kronstadt. It showed that the hull had significant rusting, especially in the area of ​​variable waterline, where the depth of a large number of shells reached 2,5 - 3 mm, which reduced the thickness of the sheets by more than 25%, 2/3 of the heads of all rivets were also corroded by rust. In the main armor belt, not yet fully assembled, two armor plates were missing from each side. About half of the upper deck armor was not riveted, and on the rest of it, due to rusted heads, 90% of the rivets had to be replaced.
                The set of the ship was in satisfactory condition. In the opinion of the commission, its hull as a whole, after work on replacing parts affected by rust (complete replacement of two bottom shells from each side, separate parts of platforms, flooring of the second bottom, if necessary, in the area of ​​turbine compartments, riveting of 75% of all rivets, etc. .), turned out to be quite suitable for further operation and could be used for conversion into a training cruiser. True, it was not possible to find out the state of the shirstrek under the side armor, rudder stocks, a set in the side compartments, overhead sheets of the second bottom for stringers in the boiler rooms. And this, according to the experience of similar work, meant that with a detailed fault detection and in the process of restructuring, the volume of the replaced metal could double.
                © Article by L.A. Kuznetsova in the collection "Gangut" No. 2, 1991
          2. Captain Pushkin
            Captain Pushkin 15 May 2021 19: 19
            +3
            Quote: Avior
            And this is a new ship of the class, which is not possible to build in the foreseeable future.

            This is an old ship. All weapons and electronics need to be installed new, i.e. complete redesign of the ship and rework of the finished iron.
            It's cheaper to build a new one from scratch.
            Only in our time no one is building new cruisers anymore. They have outlived themselves as a class. As before, battleships.
        2. IgorIP
          IgorIP 16 May 2021 00: 33
          +1
          Quote: Kot_Kuzya
          ...
          To buy a ship pledged 40 years ago for a billion rubles, which is hopelessly outdated and rusted through - is it, in your opinion, to get a "new warship of the ocean zone"? Why do the Sumerians consider themselves the smartest and that they can sell worthless trash for a high price? ....

          Isn't it a lard of wood for nothing?
          And in 2013, the ship was only 29 years old from the bookmark. There is still a difference, 29 or 40.
          1. Kot_Kuzya
            Kot_Kuzya 16 May 2021 05: 46
            -1
            Now the ship is 37 years old, and no one even wants to take it for nothing, since sawing will cost more than smelting steel again. Suppose a ship's hull and other scrap metal in the form of an attachment residue from equipment weighs 5000 tons, it turns out that a ton would cost 200 thousand rubles. Something very expensive steel scrap turns out. Plus the cost of sawing and transporting this scrap. Well nafig him! Let the non-brothers dispose of it themselves, and not shift it onto our shoulders for our own money. Otherwise, they think they are the smartest.
    2. vladcub
      vladcub 15 May 2021 11: 05
      0
      "mediators from among our friendly countries * - whom as a mediator: the DPRK? Will Washington get angry with Kiev, Iran or China? Again, Washington will scold ..
      Balts? So our invasion is expected in an hour.
      Poland? So they are going to fuck reparations from Germany and us, when they receive reparations, perhaps then they will agree to become intermediaries?
      1. Narak-zempo
        Narak-zempo 15 May 2021 11: 24
        -6
        There are quite a few potential intermediaries. Here's a snapshot:
        1. Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic
        2. Republic of Abkhazia
        3. Republic of South Ossetia
        4. Central African Republic
        5. Republic of Nauru
        6. Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela
        7.Republic of Armenia
        1. Kot_Kuzya
          Kot_Kuzya 15 May 2021 11: 53
          +4
          Well done! Take a pie from the shelf, grab a glass of vodka and jump off with screams "Verymirsny", "Zapadnam will help" and "Omerigazny" laughing ... And in the end, do not forget to pass "SUGS!", But louder wassat
          1. Narak-zempo
            Narak-zempo 15 May 2021 13: 08
            +2
            Quote: Kot_Kuzya
            Well done! Take a pie from the shelf, grab a glass of vodka and jump off with screams "Verymirsny", "Zapadnam will help" and "Omerigazny" laughing ... And in the end, do not forget to pass "SUGS!", But louder wassat

            You have some kind of painful excitement.
            Do not forget to take the pills that your uncle psychiatrist prescribed on time.
    3. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 15 May 2021 12: 10
      +4
      Quote: Kot_Kuzya
      Which countries are friendly to Ukraine? Poland? Lithuania? Latvia? Estonia? Turkey? Britannia? USA? Yes,

      By the way, Russia also has countries that are waiting for a turn towards them face to face:
      Afghanistan, Venezuela, Nicaragua, Syria, North Korea, Sudan, Cuba. But we need Britain, the USA, Germany, China, India and other sponsors ...
      Ukraine and Belarus will be with Russia when the socio-economic formation changes in it.
      1. Narak-zempo
        Narak-zempo 15 May 2021 13: 12
        +2
        Quote: ROSS 42
        But we need Britain, USA, Germany, China, India

        Yes, we do not need them.
        Shallow razors with mattresses, if they disappear tomorrow and stop shitting, we will only breathe a sigh of relief from this.
        We are already spinning Germany on the pipe.
        Face to face with China as strategic partners.
        India wants a lot for free. If you buy equipment, please, but we will not give away technologies to smoked ones.
    4. storm
      storm 15 May 2021 21: 32
      +2
      Why, then, is the even older cruiser MOSCOW darned and patched up?
      According to your logic, it is no longer suitable for pins and needles ...
      This is because Russia has not built such ships and will not build for a long time!
      1. Kot_Kuzya
        Kot_Kuzya 15 May 2021 22: 43
        +3
        The cruiser "Moskva", unlike the "Ukraine", did not stand at the berth for 40 years and did not rust; It is incorrect to compare it with the decayed "Ukraine". Let's compare two cars: one drove regularly, 10 thousand km a year, they followed him, everything was changed according to the regulations, in 10 years he ran 100 thousand km, and the second car - he stood in the yard without moving, he was not touched at all by all these 10 years. So, which car will be in better condition? The answer is obvious, despite the fact that the first has a mileage of 100 thousand, and the other has 0 km.
    5. marat2016
      marat2016 16 May 2021 13: 55
      +1
      Would sell Mongolia for its lake border parts ... Everyone knows where he would go next.
  • vladcub
    vladcub 15 May 2021 06: 52
    +3
    "SE" Orizon-Navigation "produces or can produce? If it does, then the enterprise is working in full, and if it can, then the enterprise is not working or is partially working.
  • Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 15 May 2021 07: 01
    +2
    First, nothing is said about commercial shipbuilding.
    As far as I understand, civilian "troughs" are being built at the very least.
  • Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 15 May 2021 07: 08
    +7
    And secondly, I was greatly surprised by the policy of our Ministry of Defense, when orders were given to Ukrainian enterprises.
    Airplanes, ships, missiles, electronics, and so on, so on, so on. And sometimes deliberately to the detriment of the Russian ones.
    I do not understand.
    We could have hoped to economically tie the brothers-neighbors. But as it turned out, "America is with us" is much more important for them.
    1. Andrei Nikolaevich
      Andrei Nikolaevich 15 May 2021 08: 17
      +5
      As the last 30 years have shown, Ukraine and its people have succeeded in the same industry - in betrayal. "
    2. Kot_Kuzya
      Kot_Kuzya 15 May 2021 08: 50
      +6
      Quote: Jacket in stock
      And secondly, I was greatly surprised by the policy of our Ministry of Defense, when orders were given to Ukrainian enterprises.
      Airplanes, ships, missiles, electronics, and so on, so on, so on. And sometimes deliberately to the detriment of the Russian ones.

      It's just that Ukrainian contractors offered lower prices due to lower salaries for employees, lower infrastructure and energy costs. It is no secret that before the Maidan, the Ukrainian government subsidized gas and electricity prices for the population and organizations. For example, under Tymoshenko and Yanukovych, Ukraine bought gas at 40 cents per cubic meter, at the then rate of 8 hryvnia per dollar, it is 3,2 hryvnia per cubic meter, but the population and organizations paid only 0,93 hryvnia per cubic meter. Now Ukraine buys "Slovak" gas for about 12 cents per cubic meter, this is at the current rate of 28 hryvnia per dollar, is 3,36 hryvnia per cubic meter. But the cost of a cube of gas for the population is 9 hryvnia. That is, if earlier Ukraine sold gas to its population almost four times cheaper than the prime cost, now, on the contrary, it sells gas three times more than the purchase price. Looks like the non-brothers rode for this on the Maidan laughing
      1. Avior
        Avior 15 May 2021 09: 01
        -2
        lower infrastructure and energy costs

        And in Russia, it means that gas was more expensive at that time?
        Why don't you know ...
        Construction in Ukraine was cheaper, as there were spent Soviet technologies, that's the whole secret of cheapness.
        1. Kot_Kuzya
          Kot_Kuzya 15 May 2021 09: 25
          +8
          Quote: Avior
          And in Russia, it means that gas was more expensive at that time?
          Why don't you know ...

          Yes, gas was more expensive, now a cubic meter of gas costs 8,98 rubles, which is 3,35 hryvnia. In 2013, a cubic meter of gas cost about 5,5 rubles, at the then rate of 1 hryvnia 4 rubles, this is 1,38 hryvnia. So you learned what you didn’t know. Ride the right road, non-brothers laughing
          1. Avior
            Avior 15 May 2021 09: 57
            -6
            In 2013, a cubic meter of gas cost about 5,5 rubles, at the then rate of 1 hryvnia 4 rubles, this is 1,38 hryvnia.

            the price of gas for enterprises at that time in Ukraine for industry was about 4,5 hryvnia, that is, in Ukraine, it is three times more expensive than in Russia
            https://www.ceer.eu/documents/104400/-/-/76fff310-aee9-cdc3-3b06-b61ba922aee4
      2. Igor Ushakov
        Igor Ushakov 15 May 2021 22: 02
        +1
        But the cost of a cube of gas for the population is 9 hryvnia.
        You forgot to mention the delivery, we pay for it separately. Through the pipes, paid for with our money, for which they also allocated money from the budget and then out of bounds transferred to the balance of regional gas companies.
        now, on the contrary, it sells three times more than the purchase price.
        we were promised an increase in the volume of our own gas with a subsequent reduction in its price. This did not happen.
        Looks like the non-brothers rode for this on the Maidan 
        strategic victory of the Maidan propagandists - positive and, outwardly, achievable promises - the fight against corruption, European investments, access to the European market, the introduction of European standards of life. Many believed it.
        In the end, as Kuzma Scriabin sang "In my opinion, dude, we were thrown!"
    3. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 17 May 2021 16: 19
      0
      Quote: Jacket in stock
      And secondly, I was greatly surprised by the policy of our Ministry of Defense, when orders were given to Ukrainian enterprises.
      Airplanes, ships, missiles, electronics, and so on, so on, so on. And sometimes deliberately to the detriment of the Russian ones.
      I do not understand.

      These are the remnants of former luxury - old chains from the times of the USSR, which no one wanted to change. Firstly, because these chains were already debugged, and secondly, because it was cheaper and easier to use the chain than to establish new production at home.
  • tuts
    tuts 15 May 2021 07: 11
    +3
    There are enough statistics on Russia, I personally know that a lot of engines were produced in Ukraine and we had problems with the commissioning of ships and import substitution of Ukrainian products.
  • Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 15 May 2021 07: 11
    +4
    Well, about the cruiser Ukraine really amused.
    There is now even nothing to repair,
  • Xlor
    Xlor 15 May 2021 07: 27
    +7
    You have to jump near the sea with pots on your head, you look, shipbuilding will be reborn ...
  • prior
    prior 15 May 2021 08: 03
    +8
    "What Russia lost in Ukraine, what Ukraine lost in Russia"

    Russia has lost part of itself in Ukraine. crying
    At the same time, Ukraine lost itself. fool
  • sergo1914
    sergo1914 15 May 2021 08: 06
    +7
    Eh. For 61 communards
    I had to go on assignment in 1990. Of course, there was relic. But he jumped off. And I got to Nudelman. And so, you see, now I would jump and throw semi-liquid feces at you.
    1. Peak
      Peak 16 May 2021 12: 35
      0
      Quote: sergo1914
      For 61 communards
      I had to go on assignment in 1990. Of course, there was relic. But he jumped off. And I got to Nudelman. And so, you see, now I would jump and throw semi-liquid feces at you.

      Is it you who assess your moral-strong-willed and thinking abilities so low that you think that you would have fallen to the level of the Maidan Bandera-skakuas under the influence of the environment?
  • Andrei Nikolaevich
    Andrei Nikolaevich 15 May 2021 08: 15
    +2
    Fortunately, we have a common past with Ukraine. But different - the future, too, fortunately. Let them do what they want and survive as they want. This is their personal and "nEzalEzhnoe" business.
    1. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock 15 May 2021 10: 17
      +4
      Quote: Andrey Nikolaevich
      Fortunately, we have a common past with Ukraine. But different is the future,

      And what is happiness?
      There the people were Russians, and the lands were watered with Russian blood in 33 layers. But what is there krovushka, Russia itself, as such, from there and began when that.
      This is not happiness, but the loss of losses.
      1. Andrei Nikolaevich
        Andrei Nikolaevich 15 May 2021 10: 43
        +5
        I understand your disappointment, but we are already different. Three new generations have grown up both here and in Ukraine. Conversely, there is no road. And the "brothers" from the citizens of Ukraine, frankly, are lousy.
  • Aviator_
    Aviator_ 15 May 2021 11: 05
    +3
    signed a construction memorandum for the Ukrainian Navy eight large rocket boats. The project is British, money for it in the amount of $ 1,5 billion is allocated by British banks and credit agencies. For a period of 10 years. The first two boats will be built in Great Britain, four at the enterprises of Ukraine.

    Where are the other two?
    1. Kot_Kuzya
      Kot_Kuzya 15 May 2021 11: 59
      -1
      Quote: Aviator_
      Where are the other two?

      Already forgiven. All sorts of Leshchenko and others became richer by another million or two dollars laughing
  • Constanty
    Constanty 15 May 2021 11: 22
    +3
    The degradation and destruction of the Ukrainian shipbuilding industry, perhaps, was completed by the crisis of 2013-2014 and caused by the crisis the decision of the people of Crimea to move to permanent residence in Russia.


    I haven't laughed like that in a long time.

    The return of Crimea to Russia was the result of decisions (in any case, reasonable decisions) of the Russian authorities and the actions of its armed forces, while Ukraine was completely passive.

    On top of that, "elections" are just decoration later.

    Another thing is that now living in Russia is better than in Ukraine.
    1. Avior
      Avior 15 May 2021 14: 31
      0
      Right now this difference has noticeably smoothed out.
      Previously, it was contrasting
  • iouris
    iouris 15 May 2021 12: 31
    +1
    Russia in Ukraine lost Russia, and Ukraine lost Ukraine.
  • dgonni
    dgonni 15 May 2021 13: 14
    +3
    An interesting version as interpreted by the author!
    The first message is not correct!
    Namely, that the union has built shipbuilding in Nikolaev!
    In Nikolaev, shipbuilding was organized by the Belgians at the end of the 19th century. Well, suddenly! Rossud and Naval shipyards and their history to help!
    And yet the entire Black Sea armored and drendoud fleet was built on them!
    For Ulyanovsk, the order was canceled in readiness of about 20-22%.
    For the long-suffering Varyag!
    Ukraine offered Russia to buy and pay for the completion.
    EBN refused. Although the readiness for 91 years reached 80%.
    Then, in the process, at the request of the Russian Navy, part of the equipment was dismantled. And in a state of 68% oveostt, he departed to the Chinese.
    According to Admiral Lobov!
    In Ukraine, a crew was formed on it EMNIP three times.
    But as such, the Ukrainian fleet did not need it.
    Again, Russia did not want to buy it for a reasonable amount.
    And $ 30 million. at the end of 2013 for a first rank strike ship this is clearly not the right price.
    For today corvettes are being built for 270-290 million dollars!
    So the reason for the non-entry of these ships into the Navy should be sought in the Ministry of Finance of the Russian Federation and the General Staff!
  • xomaNN
    xomaNN 15 May 2021 14: 26
    +2
    "A suitcase without a handle" - this is how you can call the state of the ukrainian ship industry. And they will finish his purchases of foreign boats, and not their manufacture on the ukr. shipyards.
  • Petrol cutter
    Petrol cutter 15 May 2021 17: 30
    +3
    "There are fewer orders, fewer funding, fewer in total"
    To say that there are fewer ... To say nothing.
    Orders were absent from the word at all.
    On this occasion, I personally, for example, quit the factory. And he went to work on construction sites.
    ... "the inevitable outflow of self-respecting qualified personnel,
    the inevitable outflow of self-respecting qualified personnel, "
    Perfectly in the hole.
    Although the employees are still very competent. Which do not have the ability to travel. For one reason or another.
    Ukraine-Ukraine. What do we have in Crimea today?
    For Kerch, I don’t know, although a lot of guys, they both rushed there and returned.
    On the "Sea" - all terms .......... Salary ...........
    Delayed indefinitely.
    With "Pella" - this was not observed ...
  • Pavel57
    Pavel57 15 May 2021 19: 46
    0
    Quote: private person
    Look at what the Volgograd Tractor Cheboksary Tractor and many other factories have become.

    On the other hand, how many factories does the country need?
  • Normal ok
    Normal ok 16 May 2021 00: 06
    0
    Some ancient data. The Odessa shipyard has long been absorbed by the Odessa port and practically destroyed .. The cruiser "Admiral Lobov" (90% ready) is not being completed by anyone, not because it is not possible, but because no one in the world needs it ... ...
  • Anachoret
    Anachoret 16 May 2021 01: 31
    0
    The theses are clear and well-grounded, but only the above technical capabilities of Ukraine are the theory from the 92nd year of the spill.
    The Lenin Forge belongs to Poroshenko and now piece by piece is being pinched off from his industrial zone for multi-storey housing development.
    Burevesnik is also slowly being leveled to the ground with the adjacent industrial zone right up to the exit to the Dnieper. These plots are actively being built up with high-rise buildings of 25 floors, and as this microdistrict is completed, a fierce transport collapse is expected, since the transport infrastructure is not adapting to construction projects. Under the Klitschko mayor's office, the town-planning project resembles Luzhkov (with the prefix "minus the cleanliness and repair of roads"), when a candle is chasing on any "free" piece of land without taking into account parking lots and road junctions. But that's not what we're talking about.
    Nikolaev. I happened to communicate a year ago with one of the leaders of the Nikolaev trade unions. Shipbuilding enterprises work there purely conditionally.
    Nibulon rivets barges for its needs, but this cannot be called a large-scale production. Although, in comparison with others.
    ChSZ now belongs to Novinsky (Akhmetov's business partner), the Kherson shipyard seems to be his too. And the production volumes there were within 1 unit per year. And after the 14th year, ChSZ began to play from time to time in bankruptcy and redemption back by Novinsky himself. You can't call it work
    Factory 61 Communards, as far as I correctly understood, are now going to repair from 3 stocks and leave one, and dismantle two because of their "accident rate". In fact, the plant has long been without normal orders and was interrupted by minor repairs from time to time.
    Ocean. There are also misunderstandings with workers, with changes of owners and with orders.
    Zarya-Mashproekt is not developing either, there are orders, but there are not many of them and there is no development of the plant as such. Quiet degradation of competencies and equipment.
    In the early 90s, when all the shipyards of Nikolaev abruptly stopped, the city beat all records for drug addiction, only Donetsk was ahead, but there were many more people living there.

    So now. In my understanding, in order to load these factories with orders, serious investments are needed in equipment and in the restoration of personnel competencies (after all, many have left to work in Russia or Poland, or have changed their profession). And this, in fact, is tantamount to building anew.

    On the good, Russia now has a lot to invest in shipbuilding. The find needs to be reanimated, Amurskiy also works far from the design capacity, Khabarovsk is also on its way, Sevastopol and Kerch with Feodosia.
  • tolmachiev51
    tolmachiev51 16 May 2021 02: 45
    0
    It is even twist-twist, even twist-twist. Russia has lost much more. Because all investments in Ukraine were based on shipbuilding for Russia. Now they are forced to build their own shipyards on the basis of shipyards (in the majority of the military, or civilians, too), and these are not "weak" costs.
  • BUSEYN
    BUSEYN 16 May 2021 15: 34
    0
    How interesting it is to discuss Ukraine. Let's go home. The construction of the ship pr. 11356 (SKR 1135 USSR) in Soviet times was built in 17 months. Sechas more than 70 MONTHS. So take it easy. There is no money in Ukraine. We got a fucking cloud (in our pockets).
  • Adimius38
    Adimius38 16 May 2021 16: 37
    0
    The author leaves the main topic - where was Russia? After all, to stand up for the legitimate President Yanukovych in 2014, and if it was necessary to demand from him a request for help to restore order, everything was within the competence of Russia. Of course, Crimea would then remain with Ukraine and we would still pay rent for the base in Sevastopol, but the events in Donbass would not have happened, there would have been no severing of economic and strategically important ties with Ukraine. And then support the Azarov government and all pro-Russian politicians in Ukraine, help get rid of radicals and, most importantly, leave Ukraine in the field of Russian influence. Would you say it was impossible? all this was possible. And when Mrs. Nuland handed out pies in Kiev, for some reason the Kremlin pretended that nothing really happened.
    1. abc_alex
      abc_alex 17 May 2021 09: 59
      +2
      Quote: Adimius38
      After all, to defend the legitimate President Yanukovych in 2014, and if it was necessary to demand from him a request for help to restore order, everything was in the competence of Russia.

      Yes? Was Yanukovych even a millimeter pro-Russian? I understand that against the background of Yushchenko, he seemed like that. But it seemed. The whole orgy with the "Eastern Partnership", the Association and the general shit of the brains of Ukrainians with a "European perspective and a" civilizational choice "began with him. He just tried to combine anti-Russian verbiage with commercial interests, primarily personal ones. And now those who earn money are in power there. immediately on that verbiage.
      It was pointless to defend Yanukovych, he himself surrendered power. Let me remind you that he agreed to resign. What was the use of sending troops to Kiev if it was impossible to form the power we needed there? There, by the way, the Shtatovites cannot form the power they need. :)

      Quote: Adimius38
      but the events in Donbass would not have happened, there would have been no rupture of economic and strategically important ties with Ukraine

      Again. Yanukovych himself capitulated before the Maidan. And Azarov would not help him here. Therefore, the war in Donbass could have occurred in this case as well. Only a little later. At that time, the Nazis had already broken through to the management of the Maidan as a political resource, and it was possible to snatch it from them only by tearing off their hands. Blood, that is. The Nazis in Ukraine have their own stable electorate. The radicals are small, but there are plenty of Poroshenko's ones ...

      Quote: Adimius38
      there would be no rupture of economic and strategically important ties with Ukraine

      Would be.
      Yanukovych himself dragged Ukraine into the Association. With his submission, people were dirtied with the logic "The Association is the EU". And he could not turn off this rail. And the Association unambiguously led to the severance of economic ties. It was said then openly, and the EU was not shy about it. Ukraine was actually given an ultimatum by the EU or Russia. Moreover, the zap for ukrov was that the udtimatum was set not by Germany and France, but by Poland, Sweden and Lithuania. As it turned out later, they were incapable of anything, except for the linguistic chas.
      You have to understand that the Eastern Partnership project itself was invented by the Poles with the support of the Swedes precisely in order to prevent the reintegration of the imperial Russian economy in the post-Soviet space. And nothing else except.

      Quote: Adimius38
      all pro-Russian politicians of Ukraine

      And where did you see them there in 2014? There were no pro-Ukrainian politicians there ... Azarov, looks like it. So half of the Ukrainians hate him ...

      Quote: Adimius38
      when Mrs. Nuland handed out pies in Kiev, for some reason the Kremlin pretended that nothing really happened.

      Because for the United States there it was necessary to "stir up and shake things up." Let me remind you that the US plan in Ukraine was "against Russia, at the expense of Russia." Break it down and throw it away, let the Russians, like after the Second World War, swell again with hunger, restoring the "granary".
      Accordingly, ours had an order of magnitude more difficult task. We have nowhere to go - geography is fucking science! And, apparently, it was decided to pull out the most poisonous tooth from the horses and leave them to ride around the neck of the owners from the West. Cynical, not humane. But politics is like that. "Taking your own" and getting out of unsuccessful passes is always more difficult than taking whists. On the one hand, the Crimean operation solved a huge strategic task, and on the other, it was completely bloodless.
  • Barkun
    Barkun 16 May 2021 17: 04
    0
    Quote: max702
    Quote: private person
    It is sad, pitiful to look at the agony of the rudimentary state.

    Is it different in Russia? Look at what the Volgograd Tractor Cheboksary Tractor and many other factories have become.

    My answer is different in Russia! Do not feed MTZ and KhTZ and Volgogradsky and others would not be bent .. Although the same Cheboksary works quite well .. https://www.chetra.ru/. And in general, everything is not so bad with tractors, so stop lying.


    Gee. MTZ is not a competitor to Volgograd, Cheboksary, Vladimir or Kirovts. He simply does not do what these enterprises produced (does not do in significant quantities. There are analogues in the model range, but they are produced in homeopathic doses. And analogues have appeared as a replacement for the one that disappeared from the market). The niche is different. And vice versa, MTZ tried to play its gusli and it turned out not that it would be completely garbage, but it did not take off, the resource was very small and tormented with it .... They suffered for a long time and all one garbage at the exit. For "Shilka" with "Tunguska" MTZ succeeded in chassis, but the caterpillar tractor could not. On the other hand, Yelabuga could not really assemble MTZ analogues, although she tried very hard. Specialization - it is like that, it works in two directions and it is not a question of "feeding - not feeding".
  • serg v zapase
    serg v zapase 17 May 2021 02: 34
    0
    What a pity that an unnecessary aircraft carrier was cut. The cruiser, named "useless", was dismantled with other warships. After all, the wise leadership wanted to go to the seas! Where are the Soviet tankers, container ships, ferries, pleasure steamers. Why the heck there were so many military factories, the maintenance of which will surely collapse any economy. The result is natural - collapse, outflow, degradation.
  • Maxxcc
    Maxxcc 17 May 2021 10: 19
    0
    Quote: max702
    Quote: Maxxcc
    That is, ON France, ON Lithuania, ON Belarus and ON Russia?))))
    Your spelling is strange

    When will you forget the Russian language? And go to your veal mov ..

    Bydlyachit is not necessary.
    Linguist from God))))))
  • Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 17 May 2021 15: 26
    0
    Shipbuilding industry of Ukraine. This is a very controversial thing. Before the revolution, of course, there was something like that on the territory, and the ships were built under Prince Potemkin, who founded shipyards near the city of Nikolaev.
    But the main formation of the shipbuilding industry in Ukraine took place during the Soviet era, when the construction of factories was launched in the Ukrainian SSR, as part of the unified state that was the USSR. Including shipbuilding.

    And once again, propaganda defeated history.
    Nikolaev Admiralty (later the Russud plant), the Naval plant, three battleships handed over to the fleet (moreover, more protected than the four Baltic "Sev") - no, they have not heard. smile
    1. Narak-zempo
      Narak-zempo 17 May 2021 17: 05
      0
      Quote: Alexey RA
      Nikolaev Admiralty (later the Russud plant), the Naval plant

      The city of Nikolaev, a French factory.
      There worked boys, twenty-first year.
      I worked, I worked, I didn't save money -
      In the twenty-first year he received consumption laughing
  • mister-red
    mister-red 17 May 2021 18: 26
    0
    Quote: The Truth
    [quote ...] the ship and shipbuilding in ... independent Ukraine was destroyed almost immediately, and in general no longer existed as an industry

    That would be better.
    To the author of the post: Not в Ukraine and on Ukraine. Similarly, on Cuba, and not in Cuba, on Madagascar, rather than in Madagascar, etc ... In Cuba, it happens only in mathematics. When it comes to Ukraine, Cuba, Madagascar, it is "AT", but not "в".
    Banderlogs have a disease: they, Banderlog, live в Ukraine, but like all other Russian people, live on Ukraine and dream of their liberation, they are waiting for when they will be able to live, work, raise children in peace on Ukraine, without the freaks who occupied Ukraine ...
    A small parallel. There, in the Tribaltic, there are also some people for whom Tallinn is not Tallinn, but Talllllliiiiiinnnnn .. And the more l, and, n, the more correct resident, citizen. And everyone who does not use a lot of lllll, iiiii, nnnnn, those are wrong, non-citizens.
    [/ Quote]
    I will add my 5 kopecks because I argued a lot on this topic. The main argument against them is that Cuba, Madagascar, Chukotka, etc. they are islands or peninsulas. I had to look and here are a couple of counter-arguments:
    California peninsula, however "in" California
    New Zealand is a group of islands, but "in" New Zealand
    Regarding New Zealand, I was retorted that it was not an island, but "in" the Maldives, but "in" Indonesia.
    The funniest case is when I was asked to point out the rule by which it is written in Ukraine. I offered to find the rule, why "to the post office", but "to the store" and then I am ready to answer. They cannot understand that there are simply well-established unwritten rules
    1. AC130 Ganship
      AC130 Ganship 4 August 2021 20: 24
      0
      You are confusing Russian and Ukrainian. This phrase is pronounced differently in these languages. In Russian we speak: In the Urals; In Siberia, Ukraine; In the Baltics
  • Potter
    Potter 17 May 2021 20: 15
    0
    Ukraine in the field of military shipbuilding was purely a performer, a shipyard. Projects from Leningrad, cooperation throughout the USSR. The shipyard is only the final stage of building a ship. We must build our own. shipyard. You cannot trust the one who betrayed.
  • Maxxcc
    Maxxcc 18 May 2021 08: 16
    0
    The author did not disclose the topic or incorrectly named the article. The entire text is devoted to the situation in Ukraine.
  • boni592807
    boni592807 18 May 2021 20: 58
    0
    Interest Ask. Russia - Probably ALMOST nothing. hi
    Just inTake a map of O, Krajina и see the territories: recourse
    - oh, the edge of the Commonwealth (captured from Russia-Russia during the time of turmoil) passed to Russia after the Pereyaslav Rada.
    - At the same time, the territories of the kings, the VILs, the secretaries general from the bounty have attached huge territories with the population to THIS grain of sand.
    - At the same time, how much and what was built there and by whom (as the hands of the (sovereigns of the Republic of Ingushetia) of the USSR) and how much was invested.
    And so nothing .... You involuntarily understand the national policy of China, too expensive "SUCH breadth of soul ...
  • Oleg Shlyapin
    Oleg Shlyapin 19 May 2021 22: 19
    -2
    But the political madness that seized Ukraine


    Seriously? Was it Ukraine that was seized by frenzy when the Russian Federation annexed Crimea and unleashed a war in Donetsk and Luhansk regions, accusing it of its own crimes?

    Russia could become a potential buyer and customer for Ukrainian enterprises


    You walk the forest with your potential
  • Diverter
    Diverter 20 May 2021 20: 44
    0
    It really was the peak of Ukrainian shipbuilding. "----- SOVIET, author! Soviet!
  • IC
    IC 23 May 2021 00: 46
    0
    The author does not know well the composition of the shipbuilding industry in Ukraine. I did not mention 2 large plants of KhSPO in Kherson and Okean in Nikolaev. Although the photo of the Ocean is posted in the article.
    Ship-repair enterprises in Odessa are mentioned. Firstly, these factories were part of the MMF and they no longer exist. There is only 1 large shipyard in Chernomorsk (Ilyichevsk). In addition, there are many minor inaccuracies in the article.
  • ACCUSED
    ACCUSED 30 May 2021 13: 49
    0
    So, how this Boryusik, during the collapse of the USSR, left such a freebie of advice to the Outskirts and did not demand the Crimea?
  • vviller
    vviller 6 June 2021 12: 35
    0
    Shipbuilding industry of Ukraine (2021)
    Lieutenant Colonel M. Topol,
    candidate of technical sciences;
    Major M. Sibirskaya,
    candidate of technical sciences
    ... Foreign military review №4 2021
    A very similar article
  • Adler77
    Adler77 3 July 2021 22: 59
    0
    The voice of one crying in the wilderness ...
  • Serhi
    Serhi 7 July 2021 10: 44
    0
    What now to remember the times when together we could do more than separated. The Marshall and Dulles Plan in Action.
  • monster
    monster 15 July 2021 08: 24
    0
    oh, good cheer! fierce cheer! and nezalezhnosti sounds like a crotch!)
  • ermak124.0
    ermak124.0 26 July 2021 07: 01
    0
    got it Rogulskoe "in ukraine". sounds disgusting.
  • AC130 Ganship
    AC130 Ganship 4 August 2021 20: 19
    0
    And the author was never interested in the details, how much money would be required to upgrade the ship, which was laid down 37 years ago? And which, obviously, was designed for the technology and weapons of the mid-late 70s?
    Today it is just a rusty tin can afloat. All cables need to be changed in a circle. Cut out almost all weapons, electronics, radars, etc., etc. Moreover, the project of the ship does not correspond to the modern naval military doctrine of Russia. And let's not forget that the twin brothers of this project in the Russian Navy have been under repair for years and only sometimes go to sea.
    Why waste money on scrap metal?
  • AC130 Ganship
    AC130 Ganship 4 August 2021 21: 17
    0
    It is worth adding an answer to the author's question: what has Russia lost? -
    At least, a plant that had the competence and technology to build the largest surface warships in the USSR
    1. mister-red
      mister-red 6 August 2021 11: 07
      0
      [/ quote] [quote = AC130 Ganship] It is worth adding an answer to the author's question: what has Russia lost? -
      At least, a plant that had the competence and technology to build the largest surface warships in the USSR

      In fact, this is what Ukraine lost in the first place.
  • Siberian54
    Siberian54 7 August 2021 17: 05
    0
    Even a headline with a grammatical error is a shame to read further!