Baptism of Rus: the greatest bifurcation point in history

344
“Where did the baptism of John come from: from heaven, or from men?
They reasoned among themselves:
if we say: "from heaven", then He will tell us:
"Why didn't you believe him?"
(Matthew 21: 25)


“It's no secret that the Governor of the Penza Region, Ivan Belozertsev, personally patronizes both construction sites, visiting each of them periodically, realizing that the spiritual unity of Russians, even if they profess different religious views, is one of the key system-forming links of Russia, making a nation a Nation , and not a geographic territory of negative centrifugal processes ”. A funny photo and an even funnier caption. That's what a good governor was. He was engaged in issues of spiritual unity of Russians. And what turned out later? So there is only one conclusion: neither people, nor peoples, nor states, nor even religions know their fate!


Baptism of Rus: the greatest bifurcation point in history
Hike to Constantinople of Askold and Dir from the Radziwill Chronicle, XNUMXth century.

History great events. To begin with, I really liked the cycle started by Eduard Vashchenko, dedicated to the history of Ancient Rus. But this topic is truly immense, so he tells about some events in more detail. Some only mentions. Therefore, with his kind permission, I allowed myself to wedge myself into his topic and tell a little more in detail, firstly, about the first baptism of Russia, and secondly, about the global consequences of this event, which became perhaps the most significant point of bifurcation (metamorphosis) in history of mankind.



The first baptism of Russia


Well, now you can write that Christianity in Russia became known even before the official baptism of Russia under Vladimir I Svyatoslavich in 988. We are talking about the so-called first Baptism of Rus, which took place more than 100 years before this event, namely in the XNUMXth century.

How did it happen?

It's very simple: conversion to Christianity was a traditional Byzantine practice in relations with pagan peoples who caused trouble for the empire. In the same IX century, the Byzantines tried to Christianize Great Moravia (862) and Bulgaria (864-920), so that Russia may have been the first, but not the last on this path.

The Rus attacked Constantinople in 860, after which the Patriarch of Constantinople Photius I sent his missionaries to Kiev, where they were able to christen Askold and Dir, and even a number of their entourage. However, there are reports that the first baptism of Rus took place later, during the reign of Basil I (867–886) and Patriarch Ignatius (867–877). But in any case, it was Askold's baptism that became the first in Russia, and the baptism of Vladimir was only the second, although, of course, more significant.


"Grand Duke Vladimir chooses faith." Ivan Eggink (1787-1867). 1822. State Museum of the History of Religion, St. Petersburg

The second baptism of Russia


"The Tale of Bygone Years" tells that Prince Vladimir arranged a kind of "test of faith", that first in 986 ambassadors from the Volga Bulgaria came to him, offering him Islam. Then the ambassadors from Rome, who promised Catholicism, but they were also rejected. The Jews from Khazaria also received a princely "no" for the simple reason that Khazaria was defeated by Vladimir's father Svyatoslav, moreover, the Jews did not have their own land. It is clear that such a religion was simply beyond the understanding of the Kiev prince.

It was then that the Byzantine arrived in Russia, called a philosopher for his wisdom. His words about faith sunk into the soul of Vladimir. But, being distrustful by nature, he sent the "boyars" to Constantinople to see how the rituals were performed according to the Byzantine faith. And those, having returned, made him very happy:

"They did not know where we are - in heaven or on earth."

And so it happened that Vladimir made his choice in favor of Greek Christianity.

It was said about the consequences of what the prince did in 1930 in the book "The Church and the Idea of ​​Autocracy in Russia":

“The Orthodoxy brought to us from Byzantium broke and ruined the violent pagan spirit of the wild freedom-loving Ross, for centuries kept the people in ignorance, was an extinguisher in Russian public life of true enlightenment, killed the poetic creativity of the people, muffled in it the sounds of a live song, freedom-loving impulses for class liberation ... By drunkenness and toadying, the ancient Russian clergy taught the people to drunkenness and sycophancy before the ruling classes, and with their spiritual booze - sermons and abundant church-book literature finally created the basis for the complete enslavement of the working people under the power of a prince, a boyar and a cruel official, a prince perpetrated judgment and reprisals against the oppressed masses. "

Generations of Soviet youth were brought up on this, but then the attitude to the reform of faith in the same USSR underwent a serious change. In particular, in 1979 in the "Manual on the history of the USSR for preparatory departments of universities" it was said about this event as follows:

“The adoption of Christianity strengthened the state power and territorial unity of the Old Russian state. It was of great international importance, which consisted in the fact that Russia, having rejected "primitive" paganism, was now becoming equal to other Christian peoples <...> The adoption of Christianity played an important role in the development of Russian culture. "

As you can see, time softened the mores not only of the violent warriors of Vladimir, but also of the Soviet communist propagandists from historical science.

However, there is no doubt that Russia by the act of baptism into the "Greek faith" was involved in the area of ​​the so-called "Byzantine civilization". He provided the ancient Russian society with the opportunity to access the fruits of the millennial development of many sciences, introduced them to the hitherto unknown ancient philosophy, Roman law. And Russia, looking back at the Greeks, created its own institutions of power, focusing on the European community, starting with government and episcopate, right up to school and court.

Patriarch Photius, in his epistle to the Eastern Patriarchs (c. 867), reported earlier:

“... Even for many, many times famous and leaving everyone behind in ferocity and bloodshed, the very so-called people of Ros - those who, having enslaved those who lived around them and therefore became overly proud, raised their hands against the Rome state itself! But now, however, they too have changed the pagan and godless faith in which they lived before, for the pure and genuine religion of Christians ... instead of the recent robbery and great boldness against us. And ... they received a bishop and a pastor, and with great zeal and diligence they meet Christian rituals. "

And indeed, daring and cruelty have waned. The "Tale ..." says that Vladimir became completely different after his baptism. Where did the former fornicator and rapist go? Robbers multiplied in Russia ... “Why don't you execute them? - they ask the prince. He replies: "I'm afraid of sin!"

Now it is difficult, and sometimes simply impossible, to isolate from our chronicles both the later insertions and direct borrowings from the Bible. Which, for example, even got into the description of the Battle of Kulikovo. In any case, without a doubt, the adoption of Christianity led to a softening of the mores of our ancestors and an acquaintance with the culture of peoples with whom the Russians had only had to fight before. By the way, this enrichment was mutual ...

After all, Russia subjected Constantinople to siege three times - in 860 (866), 907 and also in 941. However, after baptism, attacks from the north ceased. It is also interesting that in honor of the miraculous deliverance of their capital from the siege of the Rus in 860, the Byzantines instituted the feast of the Protection of the Most Holy Theotokos, who interceded the city from the enemy.

And ... if today this holiday is practically forgotten by the Greeks, then in Russia it is still revered as great and is solemnly celebrated by believers. The famous Church of the Intercession on the Nerl was also built in his honor. But the most surprising thing is that for our ancestors this battle under the walls of Constantinople ended ... in defeat. So, perhaps, only two peoples in the world (Russians and Spaniards) celebrate their military defeat as a holiday! Which, again, says only one thing - time erases a lot from human memory. Moreover, the fact that the bad can turn to good, and good - to the worst.


Map of the modern location of religious cults on the planet

But let's think, so, in the order of "exercise for the brain", and what would have happened if Prince Vladimir had not succumbed to the subtle PR of the Byzantines, who brought his embassy "bolar" ("children of the forest") to the temple of St. Sophia and allowed him to attend during divine services, but would you have been a little "more literate", smarter and would have been guided by some other "dividends" from baptism? What would have happened then?

First hypothesis


First, let's see what could have been - accept the Muslim faith? Then Russia would become an outpost of the Muslim religion in Europe. The teachings of Al-Biruni, Avicenna, the poetry of Ferdowsi, the rhymed prose of Abu Bakr al-Khorezmi would have been revealed to her centuries earlier, she would have learned who Jamil and Busayna, Majnun and Leila, Qays and Lubne were. The country would be covered with beautiful mosques and comfortable caravanserais. Naturally, bridges would be built of stone, like buildings. And all because the border needs to be strengthened.

Of course, there would be violent wars with Christians. But then Spain would also be Muslim! A war on two fronts, Christian Europe would not have survived. Look at the map of the spread of the Muslim religion, if it was accepted by Vladimir. The most sparing Christians option was chosen. And yet - how much green is it?


Map of the hypothetical distribution of the Muslim religion

Modern Muslims would have practically inexhaustible reserves of oil and gas in their hands. All of India with its riches, North and Central Africa - colossal reserves of coffee and tea, valuable timber, diamonds, emeralds, gold. The power of the union of Muslim countries would be extremely great. And both America, Europe and some other territories would be Christian. That is, the world would be typically bipolar, but dominated by one powerful religion.

Second hypothesis


Well, if Vladimir had chosen Catholicism, the situation would have changed to the diametrically opposite.


Map of the hypothetical spread of Christianity

On this map, all Christian countries are highlighted in red. And it is clear that the power of the powers united by one faith would be extremely great. Conflicts? Yes, they would be too. But they would be between "brothers in faith." Reformation? Yes, it would start too. And it would have spread much more widely. Including Russia, which with the hard work of our people would bring fantastic results. In this case, too, the classic bipolar world would come out. That is, a fairly stable and stable social system. The huge territorial and human resources of Russia in both cases, thrown into the scales in the relationship of "brothers in faith", would undoubtedly be of decisive importance.

What happened


Not so with us today. Due to the fact that Vladimir chose the faith of Byzantium, a country rather weak, sandwiched between Catholics and Muslims, he won the independence of his throne, although he still did not escape cultural submission.

And it turned out that our allies by faith are Bulgarians, Serbs, Macedonians, Greeks ... Nations whose states are very weak. We could not and cannot count on their help.

We have become a third party in this world. The third force, which neither Western Christians nor Muslims fully trust.

Roughly speaking, for the whole world we are like “manure in an ice hole. And he doesn't drown, and he doesn't swim so fast! " This provokes countries of the same faith and culture to put constant pressure on Russia. Which, of course, does not make life easier for us.

And, in fact, we have no allies in faith in this world!

So just one decision of Prince Vladimir has changed the entire geopolitical alignment of balances and interests today. Has brought humanity to the brink of total nuclear war and complete destruction. If he knew that the consequences of his decision would be as follows, he probably would have acted differently ...

PS Beauty for the sake of faith


And now we will look at the beauty created by human hands in the name of faith. Consider the iconic buildings of different countries of the world, both outside and inside ...

All photographs in different years were taken by the author.


Cathedral of st. Peter in Rome. For some reason, from a distance, it is not at all impressive ...


Cathedral of st. Michael in Carcassonne


Cathedral in Brno is visible from anywhere in the city


Cathedral of st. Stephen's in Budapest


Service in this cathedral


And this is how the department looks like in it


It is interesting that even in shorts they were allowed to enter this cathedral ...


Gothic vault of the cathedral in Barcelona. Outside, suffocating heat, but inside ... cool


Beams of columns and these stone vaults make a very strong impression.


Stained glass windows are a characteristic feature of all Gothic cathedrals


In some places, Gothic cathedrals were built of bricks. One of the cathedrals of the city of Wroclaw


Cathedral of st. Mary of Girona is the largest cathedral in Europe after the cathedral of St. Peter in Rome


His altars ...


Figures of people show the scale of this truly huge structure.


The Episcopal Palace of Girona has now been converted into a museum for church utensils and accessories. For example, there you can see this golden reliquary.


Casket made of bone and silver for holy gifts


Massive silver candlestick. You can imagine how much silver was and is in the religious buildings of the Christian religion.


Everyone knows this cathedral in Barcelona and its creator - Antoni Gaudi


But this cathedral stands on a square in Zagreb, the capital of Croatia, and has a unique and very beautiful roof


A real Greek temple. But in fact, this is a Catholic cathedral in the city of Eger.



And this is how he looks inside


Domes of St. Stamps in Venice


Inside view of one of them


Lace decor of the cathedral of st. Brand


Orthodox church of the XNUMXth century in the town of Paralimni in Cyprus


Her internal view


A very modern temple in Paris at the Port d'Orléans outpost


And this is a very modern Holy Trinity Orthodox Cathedral in the VII arrondissement of Paris, consecrated in 2016


Spassky Cathedral under construction in Penza


Interior view of the cathedral during construction


And this is how he looked a couple of months ago



The iconostasis is already standing, but not yet finished


The square in front of the cathedral is a bit uneven, but such is the terrain here.


And this is another new cult building in Penza: the cathedral mosque. Initially, the mosque was planned to be opened in 2013 - to the 350th anniversary of Penza. However, the construction was delayed ...
Our news channels

Subscribe and stay up to date with the latest news and the most important events of the day.

344 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. +22
    15 May 2021 04: 38
    Vladimir after his baptism became completely different. Where did the former fornicator and rapist go? Robbers multiplied in Russia ... “Why don't you execute them? - they ask the prince. He replies: "I'm afraid of sin!"

    It's funny. Applicable to all times
    1. +7
      15 May 2021 05: 27
      Quote: Serpet
      Applicable to all times

      What are you talking about? And does this refer to "new"? Fuck there. It is more appropriate here:
      Why, without fear of sin,
      Does the cuckoo praise the Rooster?
    2. +7
      15 May 2021 07: 34
      It is doubtful that he has changed. A ferocious Viking warrior, I can’t believe it.
    3. +11
      15 May 2021 09: 56
      The idea of ​​the Tale of Bygone Years that the Rus, led by Prince Vladimir, were so wild and inconsistent, not faithful in their beliefs that they decided to change their faith for something else looks naive and implausible from the point of view of a modern person. won wars, went on campaigns to Rome / Romea-Tsar-City, everything was quite successful, except for Igor's campaign invented in the 18th century and here we are changing religion.
      It is clearly seen that such an invention could only affect the illiterate peoples of the 19th century, when everything came from the church was the true last resort, as well as official historians, but not now.
      Shpakovsky, as a local propagandist, will always remind us of this implausible myth, so that common historical nonsense would not be forgotten.
      There is only one way to change beliefs - by war, when you physically destroy the bearer of the idea. And it was these events that took place in Russia, but not in the 10th century. , and in the 17-19th centuries, when the Old Faith was destroyed., when there really were wars, riots and when millions of Russian people were exterminated or left their country.
      But even so, the Old Faith lived among the people in the form of rituals and customs and old holidays, all dates must be recalculated from the new style to the old style.
      -Red hill on the Spring Equinox on March 21 was transformed into the Christian holiday of Easter and the Bolshevik holiday on May 1.
      - on the summer solstice - June 21, Ivan Kupala is the most favorite holiday of the Slavs.
      -21 September - harvest day - autumn equinox In German Oktobrfest and this is not surprising given that Slavs, Varangians / bars, Lyutichi, Serbs lived on these lands - they still live in Saxony.
      -21-December -Karachun - winter solstice.
      That is, as we can see, the Slavs celebrated in accordance with the heavenly and solar symbols. Those. "as above, so below".
      And the fact that the main deity of Russians and not only Russians was the Sun can be seen from the symbolism, which, somehow, is preserved even in modern churches, for example, the same new church in Barcelona, ​​where the top of the hipped roofs is the Sun, and not the cross.



      the same symbolism can be seen on other churches - in Cologne, the Cologne Cathedral., there is not the Sun. but the Shamrock, but this is a pre-Christian symbol
      Countries like India, Japan and some others have the Sun symbol. Muslim countries have the Crescent and Star symbols, but a star is a transformation from the Sun to a meaningless star.
      1. 0
        15 May 2021 13: 04
        We lived with the faith of our fathers, won wars, went on campaigns to Rome / Romea-Tsar-Grad, everything was quite successful, except for Igor's campaign invented in the 18th century and here we are changing religion.

        Well, what is being driven into the head of the colonies in the first place? That power in the state is divided only into 3 branches - legislative, executive and judicial. ))))
        Modestly keeping silent that for the metropolis, these 3 branches of power are absolutely not enough to keep the colonies, cultural power is also needed
        - what culture and customs are carried by the state and the people and, most importantly, spiritual power, without it there is no way at all, any person in his life sooner or later matures to spiritual. And it is good if the spiritual culture is developed in the metropolis, if not, another state with a more developed spiritual culture will subjugate the metropolis.
        Teaching technical sciences or the humanities is not all that important compared to spiritual education. After all, what did Christ say to the simple fisherman Peter (later to the Apostle Peter)?
        "You were a fish catcher, and I will make you a MAN CATCHER." Ie, I introduced him to the laws of the human psyche and ways of manipulating a person (how can you not remember the Jesuit Order). It was not in vain that Stalin graduated from the full course of the theological seminary and was perfectly able to manipulate and infect the masses with the idea.
        Therefore, for Russia, only 3 branches of government are the path to degradation and disintegration, there are no other options and cannot be.
        After all, look what happened to the Galicia-Volyn principality? There was a Russian principality, and then it was reformatted into a completely Russophobic education. To do this, it is necessary to know and understand the laws of human development and ways of managing the people. Our opponents are fluent in this, and we, even possessing this territory with the population, cannot change the mentality of this population, because we do not know the laws of the development of the mentality of the people. Until 1917 they knew, and then everything was cut out under the knife. Therefore, and so easily pass under the wing of our opponents, our yesterday's allies.
        The colony cannot subjugate the metropolis, the metropolis will always dissolve the invader in itself (thanks to the large branches of power) - as China did with the invaders who regularly conquered it.
        1. +2
          15 May 2021 13: 39
          Quote: lucul
          cultural power is also needed


          Was the culture of the pre-Christian period more backward than the culture brought by Christians? Of course not. To look at the remains of a former civilization, these are the pyramids, the Temple of Jupiter, aqueducts, stone temples of India and Indochina, South America: we see that these are EXTREME technologies.
          Here the author Shpakovsky does not know this and asks: "... were there high technologies in the past?" , but it is clear that this is not a conscientious approach to business, here almost all the authors are like that, just such a site, what is the demand, such is the supply.
          If you look at the culture of the Great Mughals, at their architecture, at the huge weapons made in these times,





          then you start not to understand, but how did they, so great and developed and numerous, were able to lose to the small English nation? Do we have an answer to this question? No, we do not have, historians, that they are babbling about the fact that the Angles had firearms, but the Indians did not have them, but the huge guns that do not belong to the Angles, whose are they, not Mongolian?
          This means only one thing, that the real story was completely different, that something important happened then, which we do not know.
          By the 19th century, there were no longer any forests on the islands of Britain, the entire forest had long been cut down, and the fleet continued to be built. Europe could not provide the English fleet with such an amount of high-quality ship timber, and only Russia had such an opportunity, which means that there were ALWAYS timber supplies to England huge, but England has always been an enemy of Russia, and nevertheless, at the expense of Russia, the Angica fleet was built with the help of which England became a world predator, which means that history here is also completely false.
          1. +2
            15 May 2021 17: 32
            The best wood for masts and rails is Riga spruce. Where they cut it is clear :)
          2. +5
            15 May 2021 17: 36
            Quote: Bar1
            Do we have an answer to this question? No, we do not have
            We have, we have. They conquered not India, but Indian principalities, one after another, using the troops raised in the conquered principalities against their neighbors. There was a single state in China and this trick did not work. By the way, it was not even England that conquered India, but a commercial company. And the cannon? What's the use of her? Only during a siege it will come in handy, this is not small, but victorious field artillery. Read about Turkish artillery, for example, it is even cooler.
            1. -7
              15 May 2021 19: 18
              Quote: bk0010
              Quote: Bar1
              Do we have an answer to this question? No, we do not have
              We have, we have. They conquered not India, but Indian principalities, one after another, using the troops raised in the conquered principalities against their neighbors. There was a single state in China and this trick did not work. By the way, it was not even England that conquered India, but a commercial company. And the cannon? What's the use of her? Only during a siege it will come in handy, this is not small, but victorious field artillery. Read about Turkish artillery, for example, it is even cooler.


              I looked at the pedia about these Marato Austindian wars, it turns out we don't know anything about them.
              First, how could a trading company have an army? This is impossible, the army is a state formation. It can be said that the army is the state, because in addition to the military component, the army must have a strong rear, i.e. rely on the economy of the state and its state apparatus.
              Waging a war is a big test for any state, they prepare for war, create an army structure, train the grassroots, non-commissioned officers, train officers, the higher officers plan the future conduct of the war, for this it is necessary to conduct strategic, technical, operational reconnaissance, headquarters plan orders for armament for near and further perspective, mobilization of conscripts.
              This is just a small part of the worries about the upcoming war. All this does not fit into the functionality of trading companies. So England is slyly lying to us that the war was fought by a trading company. The war was led by the state, but which one? The Internet literature is all in English and it is impossible to understand how many troops the OIC and the Maratha state had. There is no information about these wars.
              - secondly, looking only at large guns, we can already say that the production of firearms was developed in India, because before making a large gun, one must start with small and small arms and in no other way.
              thirdly, any of these Indian principalities was larger than Britain in resources and territory, and therefore successful British wars are very doubtful. Some other powerful state or army fought against India, apparently it was the Holy Roman Empire of the Germans, which included almost all of Europe and soon Romanov's Russia also helped, as was the case later, when all of Europe and the rest of the world fought against China and the Ih-entuan, and in fact against Tartary.
              - in the fourth, the Indians do not call themselves India, but call themselves Baratha / Barata.
              1. +9
                15 May 2021 20: 21
                Quote: Bar1
                It's impossible, the army is a state entity
                You have very late ideas about the army. At first, the armies were a bunch of violent feudal lords with accomplices, then they created order companies, hired mercenary detachments, etc. Even individual merchants had their own armed detachments.
                Quote: Bar1
                secondly, looking only at the big guns, we can already say that the production of firearms was developed in India
                Looking only at the big cannons, we can already say that in India they managed to cast a big cannon, no more.
                Quote: Bar1
                thirdly, any of these Indian principalities was larger than Britain in resources and territory, and therefore successful British wars are very doubtful.
                The army of the new generation is crushing the armies of the previous generations without significant losses. The armies of the Indian principalities lagged behind the British troops for centuries. And here it is even a matter of weapons, but of organization. Hand over British weapons to the Indians - the British will have more casualties, but the result will not change. A disciplined and tactically competent army of modern times will roll out medieval detachments in any reasonable amount.
                1. -6
                  15 May 2021 21: 15
                  Quote: bk0010
                  You have very late ideas about the army


                  how is it "later"? Actually, the ancient armies of Greece, Persia, Rome were just such armies, as he said, because they cannot be different. And a handful of armed vagrants united around a feudal lord can fight with the same not wars or armies, these are skirmishes and gangs.
                  The merchants had guards, what kind of armies did the merchants have?

                  Quote: bk0010
                  Looking only at the big cannons, we can already say that in India they managed to cast a big cannon, no more.

                  wow, deny dialectics.genesis, development.from less to more? That is, according to yours, everything big appeared first, and then small? No, it does not happen. You are apparently a humanist and are not at all familiar with weapons, nor with the laws of nature. What you are saying about cannons is a typical position of traditional historians.



                  Quote: bk0010
                  The army of the new generation is crushing the armies of the previous generations without significant losses. The armies of the Indian principalities lagged behind the British troops for centuries


                  how do you know that? Please send a source, except for the history textbook.
                  These are the stone columns in the Indian temple.




                  they can be made only with the use of machine technology, so what we see in India, temples, stone columns, say only one thing, that India / Barat before the arrival of the British was a very developed country, and a developed country should have a developed army.
                  And there are thousands of such examples in India.
                  1. +7
                    15 May 2021 22: 12
                    Quote: Bar1
                    how is it "later"? Actually, the ancient armies of Greece, Persia, Rome were just such armies, as he said, because they cannot be different.
                    Antiquity is generally a different time, are we talking about the conquest of India? But okay, let's look at them: only the Romans had an army listed above, the Greeks did not have an army, but in fact a militia, the Persians generally had a misunderstanding sharpened for a war with tribal formations, and not with states. The Pope of Alexander the Great made an army, with which he rolled out the Greeks, and then Alexander with it rolled out the Persians and many others.
                    Quote: Bar1
                    And a handful of armed vagrants united around a feudal lord can fight with the same handful of vagabonds of another feudal lord, but these are not wars or armies, these are skirmishes and gangs.
                    This is the Middle Ages, there is such a scale. The king could call his vassals to war for 30-40 days a year. It is guaranteed that only knights fought, the escort could escape at the beginning of the battle. There were many funny moments in general.
                    Quote: Bar1
                    The merchants had guards, what kind of armies did the merchants have?
                    Serious. Whoever has money has an army. There was a period when mercenaries were generally the ultimate force. During the 30-year war, they exterminated half the population of many European countries. Merchants led many of the superpowers of their time, such as Venice. Enrico Dodolo became the Doge of Venice and redirected the crusade to his competitors in the Mediterranean trade - Byzantium. The Genoese traders fought for decades with the Ottoman Empire, a superpower that conquered Asia and half of Europe.
                    Quote: Bar1
                    wow, deny dialectics.genesis, development.from less to more? That is, according to yours, everything big appeared first, and then small?
                    A healthy cannon is not at all uncommon, for example: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BA% D0% B0 _ (% D0% BF% D1% 83% D1% 88% D0% BA% D0% B0). And there is a lot of such good. They are only useful during a siege. And the field artillery decided the outcome of the battles.
                    Quote: Bar1
                    how do you know that? Please send a source, except for the history textbook.
                    What exactly do I know? That there was feudalism in India then?
                    Quote: Bar1
                    These are the stone columns in an Indian temple ... they can only be made using machine technology.
                    Or cheap manual labor.
                    Quote: Bar1
                    so what we see in India, temples, stone columns, say only one thing, that India / Barata before the arrival of the British was a very developed country, and a developed country should have a developed army.
                    And there are thousands of such examples in India.
                    You seem to have forgotten that before the British, India was conquered (see Babur) by immigrants from Fergana (the same one in Central Asia), who were kicked out by other local khans. India was not so much developed as rich, fantastically rich, in riches perhaps equal to the rest of the world before the flow of American gold to Spain. Yes, there could be separate artifacts like a pillar of chemically pure iron in Delhi, but they did not determine the technological level of the country.
                    1. -6
                      15 May 2021 22: 52
                      Quote: bk0010
                      Antiquity is generally a different time, are we talking about the conquest of India?

                      we are talking about the army and about the Austindian campaign, which for some reason had an army.

                      Quote: bk0010
                      the Greeks had not an army, but actually a militia,


                      historians will scratch your eyes out for such words. This is hoplites armed to the teeth you call the militia?

                      Quote: bk0010
                      the Persians generally have a misunderstanding imprisoned for a war with tribal formations, and not with states.


                      the Persians had one hundred thousandth armies and these were precisely the armies for the capture of states.

                      Quote: bk0010
                      This is the Middle Ages, there is such a scale.


                      Well, at first, civilization developed successfully, and then once and a failure.

                      Quote: bk0010
                      Or cheap manual labor.


                      darkness, amateurism. In order to process / grind a round stone, it is necessary to rotate the workpiece at a certain speed, then the grains of the stone are cut off, not chipped off. This is the basics of stone processing. The required rotation speed cannot be achieved manually.
                      Here is one needlewoman Vdovina decided to process diorite and what happened

                      [media = https: //youtu.be/_nnZzJFqyas]

                      Quote: bk0010
                      You seem to have forgotten that before the British, India was conquered (see Babur) by immigrants from Fergana (the same one in Central Asia), who were kicked out by other local khans.


                      And I'm talking about the Mughal state, and it was there that the creation of firearms began. And what do you want the Great Mughals to separate from the rest of the civilization of India? No, one thing follows the other.
                      1. +2
                        15 May 2021 23: 35
                        Quote: Bar1
                        we are talking about the army and about the Austindian campaign, which for some reason had an army.
                        Okay, so what have the ancient Greeks got to do with it?
                        Quote: Bar1
                        historians will scratch your eyes out for such words. This is hoplites armed to the teeth you call the militia?
                        Ask who these hoplites were. These are ordinary residents of this polis, artisans, the rich, the poor, but not those who live from the blade, not prof. military.
                        Quote: Bar1
                        the Persians had one hundred thousandth armies and these were precisely the armies for the capture of states.
                        You are confusing epochs again. The Persians had serious armies when they slaughtered with the Romans, and not in the time of Alexander. Then the army was just big.
                        Quote: Bar1
                        Well, at first, civilization developed successfully, and then once and a failure.
                        Yes, the empire collapsed, Europe went wild.
                        Quote: Bar1
                        darkness, amateurism ...] Here's one needlewoman Vdovina decided to process diorite and what happened
                        Words from the dictionary of the Fomenko-Nosovsky sect. You are not one of these, by any chance? The fact that she does not know how is not an indicator at all.
                        Quote: Bar1
                        What do you want to separate the Great Mughals from the rest of the civilization of India?
                        That is, you understand that the Indian principalities carried troops from very Central Asia (already far from the level of Genghis Khan or Timur), but are wildly surprised that the British later carried them out?
                        Quote: Bar1
                        this is where the creation of firearms began
                        In fact, it has already been in Europe since the 14th century.
                      2. -6
                        16 May 2021 00: 49
                        Quote: bk0010
                        Okay, so what have the ancient Greeks got to do with it?

                        yes uncle your training or Jesuits or synagogue.

                        Quote: bk0010
                        Ask who these hoplites were. These are ordinary residents of this polis, artisans, the rich, the poor, but not those who live from the blade, not prof. military.

                        it is foolish to think that a grape seller from the bazaar gives up selling grapes and rushes to the local arsenal, gets an oversized helmet, leggings, a cuirass, a sword, a spear, a shield, and gets in line - and is 100% ready to be a hoplite warrior, only under-cut historians of the British school think so.

                        Quote: bk0010
                        Yes, the empire collapsed, Europe went wild.


                        this only happens in the inflamed imagination of OIshnikov.

                        Quote: bk0010
                        oh, that she does not know how this is not an indicator at all.


                        Well Duc find an indicator who can manually make diorite vases of Cairo quality.



                        Quote: bk0010
                        That is, you understand that the Indian principalities carried troops from very Central Asia (already far from the level of Genghis Khan or Timur), but are wildly surprised that the British later carried them out?


                        speak Russian.
                      3. +3
                        16 May 2021 11: 54
                        Quote: Bar1
                        this only happens in the inflamed imagination of OIshnikov.
                        OOshniki? Everything is clear, sectarian. Chao
                      4. 0
                        17 May 2021 06: 21
                        Quote: Bar1
                        This hoplite armed to the teeth you call the militia?

                        Yes, this is the city militia!
                    2. -2
                      15 May 2021 23: 02
                      Quote: bk0010
                      A healthy cannon is not at all uncommon, for example: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BA% D0% B0 _ (% D0% BF% D1% 83% D1% 88% D0% BA% D0% B0). And there is a lot of such good. They are only useful during a siege. And the field artillery decided the outcome of the battles.


                      the fact that artillery in the army is the reason to have an advantage in battle is a fact. artillery in the army of India meant there were no advantages of the British army against the Indians. This is my thought. But then the reason for the loss in the war to the army, which sailed the ocean on ships for several months is not clear. I already said that.

                      Quote: bk0010
                      What exactly do I know? That there was feudalism in India then?


                      you already lost thought. Why the Angles are the army of the new generation, and the Indians are the army of the old generation, if they knew how to cast such weapons? Here's what I asked for a link.
                      1. +3
                        15 May 2021 23: 50
                        Quote: Bar1
                        The artillery in the Indian army meant there were no advantages of the British army against the Indians.
                        Well, yes, then the Coalition also has no advantages over the guns of the Crimean War, and their caliber is higher, yeah. But it's not even about weapons, it's about organization. Line infantry against the feudal army. The line infantry drove out the third. Tertia supplanted the battle. Swiss battles have crushed feudal armies for centuries. And the Indian troops were far from even the late European feudal armies, they did not come out with armor.
                        Quote: Bar1
                        Why are the Angles the army of the new generation, and the Indians the army of the old generation, if they knew how to cast such weapons?
                        Because the casting of the tools is not an indicator.
                        Quote: Bar1
                        Here's what I asked for a link.
                        https://topwar.ru/97277-anglo-francuzskoe-sopernichestvo-v-indii-bitva-pri-plessi.html
                        Data on the number of his troops vary - we can confidently say that the nabob had at least 35 thousand people (20 thousand infantry and 15 thousand cavalry), armed with a wide range of various weapons: from match guns to swords and bows. The artillery park consisted of 55 guns.

                        Кстати, интересно: https://zen.yandex.ru/media/centralasia/kak-britancy-zavoevali-indiiu-mogli-li-indusy-pobedit-5fe2372a785777679a9742b7
                      2. -3
                        16 May 2021 00: 51
                        Quote: bk0010
                        Well, yes, then the Coalition also has no advantages over the guns of the Crimean War, and their caliber is higher, yeah.

                        do not say nonsense.
                        Quote: bk0010
                        Because the casting of the tools is not an indicator.

                        you do not know about stone processing, about the casting of cannons is also a vague idea.

                        Quote: bk0010
                        https://topwar.ru/97277-anglo-francuzskoe-sopernichestvo-v-indii-bitva-pri-plessi.html

                        Quote: bk0010
                        стати, интересно: https://zen.yandex.ru/media/centralasia/kak-britancy-zavoevali-indiiu-mogli-li-indusy-pobedit-5fe2372a785777679a9742b7

                        are these your sources? Well, yes, this is your level.
                2. +2
                  16 May 2021 00: 21
                  At first, the armies were a bunch of violent feudal lords with accomplices, then they created order companies, hired mercenary detachments, etc.
                  different ways of organizing the armed forces in one state can exist simultaneously. A striking example is the Ottoman Empire of the 18th century. It consisted of regular infantry - janissaries, feudal lords - sipakhs, militia exhibited by feudal lords, regional militia - azebs, beshli, irregular cavalry - akydzhi, delhi, including vassals - Tatars, just bandits-thugs who joined the army and these are bashibuzuk not a complete list.
                  The pre-Petrovskaya army - regular troops of the regiments of the new system, regular militia of archers, feudal militia of local cavalry, irregular Cossacks, Tatars, Kalmyks, Bashkirs.
                  The army of the new generation is crushing the armies of the previous generations without significant losses.
                  in an open and full-scale confrontation, however, in skirmishes of small detachments using irregular tactics, the results may be different. For example, small detachments of Cortez suffered heavy losses from clashes with the Aztecs, despite the colossal difference in the quality of weapons. The Zulus, armed with spears, in 1879 even managed to destroy a British detachment with firearms, cannons and missiles, albeit at the expense of at least a tenfold superiority of forces and heavy losses.
          3. -2
            16 May 2021 22: 21
            Quote: Bar1
            and only Russia had such an opportunity, which means that the supply of timber to England was ALWAYS huge, but England has always been an enemy of Russia, and nevertheless, at the expense of Russia, the Angitsk fleet was built with the help of which England became a world predator, which means that history here is also completely false

            Exporting timber to England and Holland is a long-standing way to make money for the Russian treasury. Since the heyday of the Arkhangelsk port in the Russian state. It was timber, skins, furs and other products (grain, flax, etc.) that were traded mainly to these two states. Well, skins went to Sweden.
            And the purchase of timber for the British is a frequent occurrence.
            The export of materials and raw materials to England has always prevailed in trade. And in wars, England was often an ally.
            England was not an enemy of Russia. According to the apt statement of one lord - England has no allies / enemies, etc., but only interests. Russia is always a trade interest for England, while competition is always inevitable. They traded / fought / killed / ruined each other with France much more.
            And also France is not the enemy of England. A partner is a competitor laughing
            1. +1
              16 May 2021 22: 32
              Quote: Black Lotos
              England was not an enemy of Russia.

              come on!
              she was not an enemy only in one case, if there was a leader loyal to England in the galwa of Russia
            2. 0
              17 May 2021 07: 53
              Quote: Black Lotos
              England was not an enemy of Russia.


              you don't know the history
              ALL the wars of the 18th century by the OI of Russia and Sweden, England has always been on the side of Sweden, this
              -Rusco-Swedish war 1700-1721
              -Seven Years' War 1756-1763
              -Rusko-Swedish war of 1788-90
              -Russian-Anglitskaya war 1807-1812
              -Crimean War
              - Confrontation in Asia, Big Game.
              -Intervention 1919
              in all these wars with Sweden Britain was ALWAYS not on the side of Russia.
              If you take the Rusko-Turkish wars, then Britain has ALWAYS been not on the side of Russia.
              This is what is known on the internet.
              The question arises, why the hell did Russia trade with England as a constant enemy, thereby constantly strengthening the British fleet? This can only be explained by one thing: the tsars were the henchmen of England in Russia, and Russia was a colony of England at all times, and it is now.
      2. -1
        16 May 2021 14: 17
        May 1 is not a Bolshevik holiday, but an American one. The author is weak in matters of history and other things. He has everything from the fantasies of sites about how the plate-makers threw saucers on the ground.
    4. +3
      15 May 2021 22: 35
      Quote: Serpet
      Vladimir after his baptism became completely different. Where did the former fornicator and rapist go? Robbers multiplied in Russia ... “Why don't you execute them? - they ask the prince. He replies: "I'm afraid of sin!"

      It's funny. Applicable to all times
      Let's remember saints Boris and Gleb ...
      I only want to say that by accepting Baptism
      Russ fell apart into specific principalities and began fratricidal war
      FAITH was common, but the struggle for the THRONE and the lands of HIS DECREE was fought without Christian forgiveness and kindness ...
      Who did not know, and even forgot who Boris and Gleb were ...
      The father of the brothers Boris and Gleb is Vladimir Svyatoslavovich.
      Boris and Gleb were killed by order of Svyatopolk in 1015 after the death of Vladimir Krasnoe Solnyshko to eliminate applicants for grand-ducal table. Svyatopolk is the brother of Boris and Gleb (there is a version that Svyatopolk is not Vladimirovich, but Yaroslavovich - but this is only a version ...)
      I will not argue for Vera, I will just remind you that Lithuania was baptized in 1387, and neighboring Zemaitia in 1413.
  2. +12
    15 May 2021 04: 42
    Wow! Even an alternative history with maps is available laughing "Fuck! Give me two!" (from)
    1. +19
      15 May 2021 08: 41
      Author:Well, if Vladimir had chosen Catholicism, then the situation would have changed to the diametrically opposite

      Yes, he would not have chosen him, Vyacheslav. For the simplest reason. laughing
      The baptism of Rus by Vladimir took place in 988. And the Great Schism in Christianity occurred in 1054. It was then that the Church was divided into the Roman Catholic in the West with the center in Rome and the Orthodox in the East with the center in Constantinople. So Vladimir at that time simply physically could not choose between Orthodoxy and Catholicism - there was only one church. Yes
      1. +4
        15 May 2021 11: 35
        Dmitry, bravo. Something our V.Oh with dates did not screw up.
        This could happen to me after a two-day spree and without a good snack, but with V. Oh, how?
      2. 0
        6 June 2021 19: 11
        IPHO. The church was one, but the priests, bishops, rituals, languages ​​of worship were different. The actual split took place long before 1054, this year it just took legal form. Here are the Bulgarians, seemingly foolish savages, nomads, but they strongly doubted whether they went right under the Greeks, rushed to the Pope to cross over. And the Moravian Church, originally oriented towards the Greeks, was captured by the German bishops. And the German bishops visited Russia.
    2. +4
      15 May 2021 08: 43
      The sequel to "Chernovik" by Lukyanenko was somewhat reminiscent.
    3. +4
      15 May 2021 11: 29
      And I recently said that there are no "Fomenkovites". It turns out they are like the devil: just remember, and how is he here?
      1. +2
        15 May 2021 12: 29
        It turns out that so.

        An attempt to transfer the realities of our time to the early Middle Ages looks very "interesting". And this is the eternal - "if only, but if only." You can assume anything, especially now. Yes, history would have turned in the other direction, but where we would have taxied in the end (and would have taxied) - no one is able to calculate.

        In general, the inconceivable in the end came out, to say the least.
  3. +4
    15 May 2021 04: 44
    Photos are cool. Very good. Traveled well, Vyacheslav Olegovich, white envy wakes up))
    1. +1
      15 May 2021 11: 10
      Good morning colleague! hi )))
      Indeed, when you see so much with your own eyes, and not from photographs, the assessment of your own, "home" reality cannot remain the same. Questions arise.
  4. +6
    15 May 2021 04: 48
    Regarding "what would have happened if" there are quite a few interesting books, Mikhailov "Option I", Holm Van Zaichik, Bushkov had something on this topic, by the way, he came to about the same conclusions.
    1. +5
      15 May 2021 05: 15
      "Option I"
      My respect, Ivan! hi
      Maybe "Option" Bis ""?
      1. +2
        15 May 2021 06: 08
        No, I means Islam. Quite an old book by Vladimir Mikhailov, I read it somewhere in the 90s.
        Mikhailov had quite good books in general.
        hi
        1. +4
          15 May 2021 06: 35
          By the way, Vyacheslav posted only one photo of the mosque. Symbolically ... smile
          1. +2
            15 May 2021 06: 46
            We have another one in the city. But this one is the most beautiful. Somewhere there is a photo of a mosque in Kazan. But ... it was necessary to search, and there are already a lot of photos.!
            1. +4
              15 May 2021 11: 15
              I looked at the map where Penza is located.
              I was surprised. Where did so many Muslims come from that there is more than one mosque?
              1. +5
                15 May 2021 11: 21
                And in general, there are a lot of Musman in the country.

                Yesterday I asked a colleague from the Institute of Oriental Studies - where in our country does the East begin?
                The answer surprised me a little: Kazan and Crimea are the East, and Sakhalin and Yoshkar-Ola are not the East.
                1. +3
                  15 May 2021 12: 16
                  It remains to find out how our other cardinal points are distributed. There will probably be no end to the surprise.
              2. +5
                15 May 2021 11: 47
                There Tatarstan is not far away, and Tatar villages are in a dime a dozen, just like in the Orenburg region. But Anna Ioanovna resettled the Kazan Tatars in the Orenburg region so that it would be easier to communicate with fellow nomads. (The younger Kazakh Zhuz passed into Russian citizenship in 1731.)
            2. 0
              16 May 2021 02: 57
              Without any reverence, and bows. I read your articles with great interest. If we continue the topic, then we need to write about the role of the Reformation in the medieval world. Its influence on Western Europe, the Polish-Lithuanian Union (the influence is huge, take Radziwil at least) and the Muscovy (Ivan the Terrible, ... - Peter the First).
              1. 0
                16 May 2021 16: 38
                Quote: Normal ok
                Reformation in the medieval world.

                Dear Peter! Planned!
          2. +10
            15 May 2021 07: 52
            Another thing is strange. There are no photos of the synagogue. Moreover, there are no even the slightest author's assumptions and hints of how the history of Russia would have developed if Vladimir had converted to Judaism. The author is clearly hiding something smile
            1. +9
              15 May 2021 08: 09
              Yes, yes! As a non-Jew, I am also offended. sad
              1. +8
                15 May 2021 08: 32
                Good morning, Kostya. hi
                We all know perfectly well from history which religions Vladimir chose the faith, but the author is diligently silent about one, well, just like he took water in his mouth. This is an obvious flight. And obviously someone will be interested. In the secret services of the whole world there is such a method of "proof by contradiction" smile
                1. +7
                  15 May 2021 08: 47
                  Maybe it's a certain amount of foresight.
                  At least watch "Shirley-Myrley" again.
                2. +4
                  15 May 2021 10: 04
                  We all know perfectly well from history
                  We all know very well about the existence of this historical apocrypha. Most likely, he is as far from the truth as the canonical version of the "vocation of the Varangians".
                  My compliments, Dmitry!
              2. +4
                15 May 2021 08: 45
                I wonder what can comfort this grief?
                1. +2
                  15 May 2021 15: 45
                  "There is only one remedy - a good drink" (c)
                  1. +1
                    15 May 2021 16: 30
                    "Note, I didn’t suggest it!" (from).
                    1. 0
                      15 May 2021 16: 38
                      "Demand creates supply", not vice versa. It seems so? smile drinks
                      1. +1
                        15 May 2021 16: 41
                        "The guys have a broad outlook" (c).
                      2. -1
                        15 May 2021 17: 00
                        "She has a broad nature,
                        The artist is happy as never before
                        That polish dries quickly "(c)
                      3. +2
                        15 May 2021 17: 03
                        “- I told you, she said, - Vasya,
                        I will give the most expensive "(c).
                      4. +7
                        15 May 2021 17: 12
                        Hello, Sergey!
                      5. +1
                        15 May 2021 17: 17
                        Hello Seryozha!

                        “What a pity that only two cheeks,
                        But hamsters do not lose their vigor ”(c).
                      6. +4
                        15 May 2021 17: 19
                        Well, his-about the sad. After all, today is only Saturday! Mine dumped in Mikhnevo, * the working class is walking! *
                      7. +1
                        15 May 2021 17: 40
                        And also "Merry month of May" (c).
                      8. +3
                        15 May 2021 18: 04
                        Oh, my dear friend! There was a wonderful, wonderful movie * It was the month of May *. Remember, buddy?

                        In general, it would be nice to cross in the * Kolkhoznaya * area. But ... we are in the internet so .... cute. bully
                      9. +2
                        15 May 2021 19: 17
                        I really liked the 1966 movie Wild Honey. Starring Larionova, Zubkov, Chekan and other actors.

                        In the photo, Chekan as the gunner of the PTR and Zubkov as the chairman of the military tribunal. One judge, the second defendant, but fate brought them together in a battle with the "Tiger". If you have not seen, then look, the film is from the rare.
                      10. 0
                        15 May 2021 23: 33
                        I think it's real.
                        Some Sunday, late afternoon is fine for me.

                        But I don't remember the movie. AK Tolstoy's poem "Matchmaking" is pleasant.
                      11. +2
                        16 May 2021 06: 16
                        Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh'll you!

                        Wonderful movie !!!!
                      12. 0
                        16 May 2021 07: 34
                        I remember. I'll take a look.
                      13. +2
                        15 May 2021 19: 03
                        "And the tea in the mug has long cooled down
                        And the Belomor went out
                        And in my heart from words and rhymes
                        Brute force, brute force
                        After all, on the asphalt heels
                        After all, the month of May is screaming here
                        Here are cats and peasants
                        Come, come "(c)
                      14. +3
                        15 May 2021 19: 08
                        Garik Sukachev !!!!!
                      15. +2
                        15 May 2021 19: 18
                        He is a vagabond. smile drinks
                      16. +2
                        15 May 2021 17: 41
                        , * the working class walks! *


                        "This is our last and decisive battle!" (C)
                      17. +3
                        15 May 2021 17: 59
                        Her, buddy, like that.
                      18. +3
                        15 May 2021 17: 23
                        Vasya doesn't mind. wink
                      19. +2
                        15 May 2021 17: 14
                        Someone doesn't like women. laughing Corrected .... slightly. As far as possible. bully
                      20. +2
                        15 May 2021 17: 19
                        Yes, here on the site one Mr. Ida crawls and tries to shit on the sea of ​​opportunity. laughing
                      21. +1
                        15 May 2021 17: 22
                        The scheme is classic. wink

                        There is only one problem, how to calculate? But yesterday I caught one character !!!!
                      22. +2
                        15 May 2021 17: 25
                        Yes, to hell with them, they themselves will die of indigestion. laughing
              3. +4
                15 May 2021 11: 46
                Quote: Sea Cat
                Yes, yes! As a non-Jew, I am also offended. sad

                Half a century before the “question of choosing a faith in Russia”, the “Cambridge Anonymous” boasted of how “cool” the Khazar Kaganate was, under the scepter of the Jews !!! Jinxed ...
                The mother of Svyatoslav Igorevich died out and the Khazar kingdom of 25 kings collapsed like a house of cards.
                So with big Israel, in contrast to New Jerusalem, Mother's territory has always been bad for Russia, and Vyacheslav did not post a photo of the synagogue - this is not a revision either. Although beautiful synagogue buildings do not come to mind, this is my fault and gaps in knowledge.
                1. +7
                  15 May 2021 13: 22
                  and that Vyacheslav did not post a photo of the synagogue - this is not a revision of the truth. Although beautiful synagogue buildings do not come to mind, this is my fault and gaps in knowledge.

                  Well, here's Kolomoisky (at his own expense) built the building of a modern synagogue in the former Dnepropetrovsk (the largest in Europe).
                2. +4
                  15 May 2021 15: 58
                  So with big Israel, in contrast to New Jerusalem, Mother Russia was always not ruinous on the territory of Russia,

                  But what about the Jewish Autonomous Region? laughing
            2. +5
              15 May 2021 08: 45
              Is Buddhism and Buryatia not our way?
              The Far East will be upset.
              1. +2
                15 May 2021 17: 33
                Do Buddhists eat cows? And pork? Although, yes, it seems to be the most peaceful religion. At least * crusades * did not arrange, and they were not noticed in cutting off the heads of * unbelievers *.
                I guess I'm a Buddhist? drinks
                1. +2
                  15 May 2021 17: 44
                  I have a feeling that there is some flexibility. Each one takes a burden by himself.
                  1. +2
                    15 May 2021 17: 49
                    Sergei, and if not without philosophy? After all, the truth is that they are the only / perhaps? / Who does not consider themselves * God's chosen *, no?
                    1. +1
                      15 May 2021 23: 29
                      Probably not the only ones. There are so many world religions and sects that it is quite easy to get confused.
            3. -1
              16 May 2021 16: 39
              He couldn't accept it!
        2. +1
          15 May 2021 09: 59
          Unfortunately, his work "did not come to me". request
          1. +1
            15 May 2021 18: 31
            Anton! Parry my friend! Yes, Buddhists are our almost everything!
            1. +2
              15 May 2021 18: 37
              Whom to fend off, Sergei? "Corsair"? I talked to him 20 minutes ago ...
              1. +2
                15 May 2021 19: 13
                Do they eat? Do they not?
              2. +2
                15 May 2021 19: 14
                I will go to Buddhists! Is this correct? Kolya will not approve !!!
                1. +2
                  15 May 2021 19: 20
                  Kolya will approve! My assessment is much tougher!
    2. +5
      15 May 2021 07: 06
      I also have a variant with "would" in my novel "God the Creator. Lost on the Highway." There is an option with the first baptism and the history of Russia.
    3. +2
      15 May 2021 14: 16
      I treated Bushkov with respect, but he was very carried away by Mazur and therefore the first one: "Piranha" is brighter, and the subsequent ones are somehow "strained".
      He had a promising beginning in fantasy.: "Settlement" or about a young witch who saved Nicholas 1, but there is
      1. +3
        15 May 2021 16: 04
        Hello Svyatoslav!
        He was not carried away by Mazur, but * swept away * him not like a child. There was all sorts of heterogeneity, one of which * Russia was not * worth.
        If .... if not using hired labor. wink
        1. +1
          17 May 2021 13: 54
          "the use of wage labor" - Alexandre Dumas - his father had "literary blacks". As literary critics now believe, Dumas had 2-3 co-authors: someone found a plot, someone historical information, and then they united in one side of the book. In any case - the "blacks" did not have such a talent as Dumas
  5. +9
    15 May 2021 04: 49
    Vyacheslav, thank you for the interesting and beautiful article. You know how not only to write, but also to work with a camera. good
    For example, as a child, I was deeply impressed by the church in Vilnius, it was beautiful, it was still built. smile

    Н
    1. +13
      15 May 2021 05: 36
      I join the kind words of Konstantin!
      Although I am ready to doubt the "story about the choice of faith." In addition, at the time of the "conditional choice" there was no split between Rome and Constantinople. There were disagreements, but Christianity at that time was a single religion. In addition, one should not forget the Bulgarian spiritual influence on religious throwing in the Old Russian state. The same Tale of Bygone Years in the initial chronology makes an 8-year error, typical of the nomokanons of the Bulgarians.
      I think that Vladimir in his “choice of faith” was more guided by his grandmother (Princess Olga). And he took what lay next to it and glittered. The rest I think in PVL is heavily embellished, especially the "meek, clean and God-fearing" glade! Although the holy princess Olga, she also did not forget to scatter "Christian values" especially in relation to the Drevlyans!
      Well, the last.
      After all, Russia subjected Constantinople to siege three times - in 860 (866), 907 and also in 941. However, after baptism, attacks from the north ceased.

      Uh-huh, twice! And the campaign of the son of Vladimir to Constantinople? And on trifles, the Tmutarakan princes of the Crimean possessions plucked more than once or twice.
      1. +7
        15 May 2021 08: 11
        Although I am ready to doubt the "story of the choice of faith"
        hi And I am tormented by similar "vague" doubts about this. The story of the king of Norway Olav Trygvasson, who was in the service of Prince Vladimir and was baptized, let's say, according to the "Byzantine" rite, is remarkable. with him a priest (not Byzantine) to Greenland to convert his relatives to Christianity. And that Norway became Orthodox, like Greenland? In addition, Olav also converted the people and the Earl of Orkney to Christianity. An Orthodox community appeared on the Orkney Islands and still exists today? And the rest, "Oh, if, oh, if it weren't for life, but a song, all the more. Muslim Russia, which later became, Shiite, Sunni, Ismaili, etc. Catholic Russia, would there have been a Reformation in general? in which regions would it start? Who won? What happened? And there were objective reasons for this. History does not tolerate subjunctive moods.
        1. +7
          15 May 2021 11: 44
          Lesh, good day. I agree that V.O undertook to guess something on the coffee grounds. I didn’t notice something like that before.
          1. -1
            16 May 2021 16: 42
            Quote: vladcub
            I didn’t notice something like that before.

            An article about this was still in the ADVISOR magazine for PR men ... at the beginning of 2000 ... but for specialists.
      2. +5
        15 May 2021 08: 49
        First, she dealt with the Drevlyans. And then she converted to Christianity.

        Hands off the Holy and Equal-to-the-Apostles Princess Olga!
        It is no coincidence that I really liked Pskov.
        1. +7
          15 May 2021 08: 56
          Quote from Korsar4
          First, she dealt with the Drevlyans. And then she converted to Christianity.

          Hands off the Holy and Equal-to-the-Apostles Princess Olga!
          It is no coincidence that I really liked Pskov.

          The aunt was cool, my son tried to stay as far away from his mother as possible! laughing
          This is how the picture is drawn, from the tower - "Slavka to have dinner quickly home" !!!
          Slavka to the faithful squad - “again, maybe we’ll roll off to the outskirts of the unreasonable Khazars”? fellow
          1. +4
            15 May 2021 09: 00
            This is how they become geographers.
            Or they flee to the edge of the empire.

            At least remember the film "White Shaman".
            1. +4
              15 May 2021 11: 58
              This is how they become "pioneers".
              "- Where are you going, Odysseus?
              From your wife? From children?
              - Oh, you would go home, Penelope! "(C)
              1. +3
                15 May 2021 12: 09
                "At least to the ends of the earth,
                At least over the edge "(c).
                1. +4
                  15 May 2021 12: 20
                  "Let's go round the earth,
                  Then we will wave to Mars "(C)
                  1. +3
                    15 May 2021 12: 39
                    “On dusty paths
                    Distant planets
                    Our traces will remain ”(c).
                    1. +4
                      15 May 2021 12: 45
                      "Remember, kid: zero thirteen in the tent, seven in a spiral. To the left of the Big Dipper" (C)
                      1. +3
                        15 May 2021 12: 48
                        “There are Taukai brethren
                        Has gone crazy according to our concepts "(c).
                    2. +4
                      15 May 2021 14: 24
                      In the first grade, in singing lessons, they taught me, but a bear stepped on my ear and the teacher "came out with foam." Therefore, I did not digest for a very long time: "space tablets are refueled"
                      1. +2
                        15 May 2021 14: 51
                        It has already passed. Choosing music that is not upsetting is not that difficult.
                  2. +2
                    15 May 2021 18: 18
                    Next, where? Oh, this one, fantastic.
          2. +2
            16 May 2021 08: 42
            Princess Olga - her aunt was cool, his son Svyatoslav tried to stay as far away from his mother as possible! smile
            This is how the picture is drawn, from the tower - "Slavka to have dinner quickly home" !!!

            1. +2
              16 May 2021 12: 10
              Dmitry, a worthy interpretation of the topic of choice in the current reality wassat )))) good
          3. +1
            21 May 2021 16: 08
            It is unlikely that Slavka was clicked. Rather Svetlana, or Svetko '.
    2. +6
      15 May 2021 06: 17
      Again I am asking for your company with my words of gratitude)))
      I myself am an atheist. Not radical, but so ... Homebrew, so to speak. But the architecture of cathedrals, temples, churches and churches has always attracted.
      Especially the old ones. Now what - computerized machines and stones will arrive, and the statues will be cast, and the Liebherr cranes will deliver all this to any height.
      But then, in the Middle Ages ...
      Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich, for the Saturday excursion!
      1. +3
        15 May 2021 07: 02
        Quote: Leader of the Redskins
        But the architecture of cathedrals, temples, churches and churches has always attracted.

        All this undoubtedly adorns life. "Here is a chemical plant, here is a blast furnace .." Remember the words of a pioneer-activist from the movie "Deja Vu". How boring it would be to live in such a world ...
        1. +7
          15 May 2021 08: 05
          Quote: kalibr
          there is a blast furnace

          You Vyacheslav Olegovich do not understand anything about "sausage scraps"!
          Industrial sites, especially blast furnaces and dams, have their own charm and chic.
          1. +2
            15 May 2021 17: 00
            It's a joke, for once with you, Vlad, I disagree. Examples, please. Industrial design from which it is impossible to take your eyes off? bully
            Well, what kind of * charm and chic * is there? Solid lines, boring. wink
            1. +3
              15 May 2021 19: 20
              Quote: Phil77
              Well, what kind of * charm and chic * is there? Solid lines, boring





              1. +2
                16 May 2021 06: 01
                Buddy! Well, you must agree, the landscape! The landscape is in the first place! laughing
                1. +1
                  16 May 2021 08: 18
                  Good morning, Seryozha!)))
                  What a life that has gone! There is nowhere to go, there is nothing to say, I do not want to speak, but it does not come out to be silent. That's how I live. Religion is the mother of order and the creator of chaos.
      2. +6
        15 May 2021 07: 02
        "Especially old"

        When I was in Veliky Novgorod, my heart was bleeding. So many old temples and in such a terrible state .. Yes, they are small, yes, nothing super-duper, But this is history, our history ..
    3. +4
      15 May 2021 07: 04
      Glad you liked it. An interesting brick church stands in the center of Samara. But ... when I was studying there in graduate school, there was no digital apparatus. All the films that I found are shamelessly faded.
    4. The comment was deleted.
  6. +5
    15 May 2021 04: 53
    Yeah. Prince Vladimir somehow did not think about total nuclear war.
    1. +7
      15 May 2021 06: 37
      His mind was unable to conceive and comprehend such a sin. request
      1. +5
        15 May 2021 08: 51
        And how does it differ from fiery Gehenna?
        Are morals softening?

        "Peacocks, you say" (c).
        1. +3
          15 May 2021 16: 00
          "No, guys, I won't give you a machine gun." (C)
          1. +1
            17 May 2021 13: 59
            Kostya, hello. He seems to have Hotchkiss?
            1. +1
              17 May 2021 14: 04
              Exactly. Gocheis (Hotchkiss) arr. 1922 year.
  7. +5
    15 May 2021 05: 04
    To be honest, some Gothic churches of Catholics remind me more of the walls of a prison (gloomy and chopped corners and walls) ... well, that's a matter of taste.
    Orthodox churches are more streamlined in shape and what is interesting inside they have excellent acoustics and there is always a feeling of some kind of sublimity ... when a choir sings with a good profundo bassist and a thin soprano voice, this is something. belay ... as if you are in paradise.
    1. +3
      15 May 2021 17: 07
      Alexey, and organ music in a Catholic church? Doesn't sound? No?
      With regards to prisons, here, pliz, * Butyrka *. With * Pugachev's * tower.

      And in St. Petersburg - * Crosses *, why not a temple? laughing Just a joke, damn it, I felt like it!
      * Tagankaaaa, why did you ruin the change?
  8. +12
    15 May 2021 05: 18
    Honestly, I did not understand what the article was about. The photos are interesting, although there are a couple of questions. About faith. I somehow faintly imagine Muslims in the north. He prays 5 times with bare feet in 50 degrees below zero, and when? If it’s half a night there, then you don’t need to pray? And during fasts you can eat only after sunset, so there is 3 months a day. They will die of hunger there. And about circumcision, any sorcerer will shout that they are being cut off at the root, well, tryndets mullam will come. Princess Olga was baptized. Vladimir was a complete scumbag, suddenly after baptism he became pious, I don't believe. The baptism was bloody, they drove everyone into the water, like it or not, they didn't ask. And where did he go to his harem? And there are about 2000 madame. I do not think that they were simply dismissed, any of them could say that Vova is completely zero in kravati, just because of harm. Most likely they were all killed. Cover day, October 14, no one connects with the defeat, rather with the cover of the earth with snow. The church in our country has unfortunately destroyed our history, for the sake of the monarchs and the church. As a result, we know more about the history of Egypt 5000 years ago. but we do not know about the history of our country more than 1000 years ago, alas. Map of modern religions. In Russia, not only Orthodoxy, Yakutia, Buryatia, Tuva, Kalmykia, Chukotka and many other districts have their own national religions, and there are many Catholics and Jews, but most are atheists. About the fact that the raids on the Tsar-Grad stopped, so crowds of Pechenegs and others like them piled up on Russia, just have time to brush it off, not to raids. In the photo of the building under construction, the base of the curve, of course the fotik may have given out a distortion. But it looks crooked. Architect in the furnace.
    1. +3
      15 May 2021 06: 48
      Quote: Free Wind
      I somehow faintly imagine Muslims in the north.

      My Muslim students prayed with their shoes on right in the classroom ... It's warm in the house.
      1. +10
        15 May 2021 11: 52
        Quote: kalibr
        My Muslim students prayed with their shoes on right in the classroom ...

        And my Muslim soldiers ate stew of pork during the exercises.
        1. +5
          15 May 2021 17: 53
          Faith leads to the disunity of society and ... to obedience ... to the leader.
          1. 0
            21 May 2021 16: 13
            More precisely, - Religion. It leads to this. Previously, the word VERA had a much shorter meaning. It is both a system of values ​​and a way of life, and not just readable dogmas. For me personally, the use of the word VERA is closest to the Soviet film adaptation of "Russia Primordial":
            - The land of the Romans is great .. And they all climb to us! For the sake of our children and our grandchildren, let us present our Faith to the Romans! .. I give you people!
            - And I give!
            - Lead us!
            - Bow to you, princes. Well, since the world depends on the Roman ruler, we will go to him.
  9. +10
    15 May 2021 05: 20
    As soon as this comes across:
    Baptism of Rus: the greatest bifurcation point in history

    The thought always arises: for whom is this written? Was it impossible to express yourself in Russian? Bifurcation is a bifurcation.
    Our leaders loved Anglicisms. And in simple accessible language, V.I. Lenin and I.V. Stalin. From the "voluntarism" of the CNS and the "pluralism" of the HMS, we came to a bifurcation in history.
    Interesting assumptions and conclusions are described in the article, if none but:
    History does not know the word "if"

    Karl Hampe (1869-1936), Heidelberg professor, his quote "Die Geschichte kennt kein Wenn"
    And the first to say that "history does not know the subjunctive mood" JV Stalin in a conversation with the German writer Emil Ludwig.
    It would be more interesting to read an article on the topic: "Why and how did religion appear in the world and what is it really?"
    And it may turn out that the state of atheists with a socialist economic formation was more attractive for creating a "commonwealth of interests" than being obsessed with theories about "the beginning and the end of the stick" and "from which end it is necessary to break the egg."
    I still want to know what has happened in the country in thirty years, that it has ceased to be trusted and which has become for the world "dung in the hole"? In our country there are more churches built than in the USSR there were prisons and sobering-up centers, but they began to steal more and more often, and people are shooting without exaggeration?
    Maybe it's enough to look around at the world, which is mired in myths and parables about what a small (mentally undeveloped) human, once seeing, could not tell others due to his feeble mind. And the most disgusting thing is that everything that was separated from the state in the USSR is today used as propaganda and agitation of legalized slavery with the demand for donations. What, exactly? For what?
    And we should not be concerned with the fact that
    And, in fact, we have no allies in faith in this world!

    but the fact that the image of today's Russian reality looks so vile and disgusting that the population of a country where the government is baptized with one hand and steals with the other (encourages theft) is decreasing every year.
    Consequently, the devastation is not due to the choice of the "idol", but:
    1. 0
      15 May 2021 06: 43
      Atheists are also believers in Godless. smile
      Alas, the state of atheists could not stand the restructuring of the atheist Gorbachev.
      The USSR went down in history as well as Prince Vladimir with his harem.
      But Muslims, Catholics, Christians, Jews remained and did not disappear and will survive the collapse of more than one state.
      1. +1
        15 May 2021 07: 28
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        will survive the collapse of more than one state.

        How well you said!
        1. +1
          15 May 2021 08: 46
          Quote: Lech from Android
          Alas, the state of atheists could not stand the restructuring of the atheist Gorbachev.

          Humpback and Yeltsin just hammered the last nail into the lid of the USSR coffin. The destruction of the USSR began in 1952.

          Quote: kalibr
          How well you said!

          It is possible to say that, but it will explain why exactly so, much more interesting.

          The Church is the bearer of conceptual power in which all the others are inscribed: ideological, legislative, executive, judicial.

          Ideological power can change, but it cannot go beyond the conceptual power.
          Legislative power can change, but it cannot go beyond conceptual and ideological power.
          The executive power can change, but it cannot go beyond the conceptual, ideological and legislative power.
          The judiciary can change, but it cannot go beyond conceptual, ideological and legislative power.

          The Church, having more reliable information about the thoughts of the people (through confession, recognizes the egregorial-matrix management signal from the people), can always predict the future and, in time, without changing the concept, adjust (rebuild) all lower types of power.

          About baptism.
          Vladimir adopted Christianity, and our church is Orthodox (praising rule).
          A year before the adoption of Christianity, Vladimir adopted Arianism, which denies the divine origin of Christ.
          Christianity in Russia, as well as everywhere else, was spread by fire and sword (one and many examples: 12 articles of Princess Sophia published in 1685). The echoes of the confrontation are the presence of an operating RPSTs in our country.

          The new faith occupied the old occult structures, "repainting" them for themselves.

          In the modern World, the role of the priest, pushing the antihuman concept of control in a form that is convenient for the majority, is played by TV.
          1. +2
            15 May 2021 14: 40
            "just hammered the last nail" with the "nail" I agree, but it did not start in 1953, By the way, I doubt the official version of Stalin's death. More precisely, I admit that his stroke was provoked. Probably, there was a "conversation ... of a group of comrades" on the topic: "if suddenly"
        2. +1
          15 May 2021 12: 03
          Yeah ... Or dozens of times more will lead to the collapse of certain states on the basis of sectarian strife.
      2. +3
        15 May 2021 17: 42
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        Atheists are also believers in Godless.
        Well, yes, and sober is a drunken non-alcoholic, right?
        1. +1
          16 May 2021 06: 08
          Smokers, non-smokers. * Masochnik-anti-masochniki *. My God! We were divided again! There were few red and white?!?!
      3. +2
        15 May 2021 18: 35
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        But Muslims, Catholics, Christians, Jews remained and did not disappear and will survive the collapse of more than one state.

        Do you know where a rabbit appears from a magician in a hat and how an assistant remains unharmed after a cut? And they knew it before you. When there is not enough knowledge to imagine how and for how long the Universe was created, then six days for the creation of the world is quite enough. Most importantly, everything is quick and simple: Let there be light!
        The main thing here is to determine the timing. And with donations. And with the robes of God's servants.
        Quote: kalibr
        How well you said!

        I know living beings who live without state power and without different confessions longer than a person and are not subject, like a person, to sin and temptations. So who is closer to sinlessness? And one more thing, no matter how much humanity exists, the attempts of parasites to live at the expense of others each time look more sophisticated and pretentious. And most importantly, all this is in the name of a great goal, BUT stop after earthly life ...
    2. -1
      15 May 2021 06: 51
      Quote: ROSS 42
      Was it impossible to express yourself in Russian?
      The idea of ​​going back to the roots and writing: "The kid in wet shoes stomped on the trample on the shame" does not appeal to me.
      1. +1
        15 May 2021 18: 39
        Quote: kalibr
        The idea of ​​going back to the roots and writing: "The kid in wet shoes stomped on the trample on the shame" does not appeal to me.

        I already understood that Pushkin, Lermontov, Tolstoy are not yours. No need to play the fool. You perfectly understood what it was about. Yes, write, if you have anything, the paper has endured everything, and, indeed, the monitor will endure even more.
        1. +1
          16 May 2021 16: 47
          Quote: ROSS 42
          Pushkin, Lermontov, Tolstoy are not yours.

          As it is not mine, I constantly use their literary heritage. Are you not?
      2. +1
        17 May 2021 14: 04
        In fact, in the original: "a good school warms up, in wet shoes, on a gulbis from the lists to a disgrace"
        1. 0
          17 May 2021 15: 56
          And not just one vegetable?
          1. 0
            18 May 2021 16: 17
            So for so. All the same, the dandy "good-looking" and the fellow the difference
    3. 0
      15 May 2021 06: 55
      As Sharikov told the professor, it is better to take everything away and divide it up. smile
    4. -2
      15 May 2021 06: 57
      Quote: ROSS 42
      in the USSR was separated from the state

      And how it got into the war - they immediately allowed it, and opened it, and allowed it ... That's what is disgusting!
      1. +7
        15 May 2021 08: 29
        Quote: kalibr
        Quote: ROSS 42
        in the USSR was separated from the state

        And how it got into the war - they immediately allowed it, and opened it, and allowed it ... That's what is disgusting!


        My grandmother was a believer. And before the war, and after the war, and during the war. And, unlike the constantly changing shoes of "professional Marxist-Leninists", she did not need any permission for this. And now it is "disgusting" for those who constantly had to keep their nose to the wind, oscillate with the line, etc. Today is a believer, tomorrow is a non-believer, the day after tomorrow is a Buddhist ... Of course, it's hard. Here you need a habit. And a flexible (very flexible) spine.
        1. -1
          15 May 2021 08: 39
          Quote: sergo1914
          oscillate with the line and

          And that means you were always straight as a stick. Did you denounce the ulcers and fight for the cleanliness of the ranks? And now scribble your verses from the Back to the USSR partisan detachment. Yes? And your grandmother ... well, who was she? Any authority could have neglected such. How did Orwell write there? "Prols and animals are free!"
          1. +7
            15 May 2021 08: 44
            Quote: kalibr
            Quote: sergo1914
            oscillate with the line and

            And that means you were always straight as a stick. Did you denounce the ulcers and fight for the cleanliness of the ranks? And now scribble your verses from the Back to the USSR partisan detachment. Yes?


            Not. In the first year of the institute, he was an ardent opponent of Stalin. Well, then the submission of information about the repressions and pulled quotes influenced. By the age of 25-27, there was a different point of view. Now it has only become stronger. Because of, among other things, the disguised mausoleum and the grave of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief on every May 9. Not a believer. And they never did. Can you imagine? This happens. No need to repaint from red to white. And vice versa.
            PS I have never been a member of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. In the Komsomol from under the stick. Well, for the institute it was necessary. Baumana looked at it then.
            1. -4
              15 May 2021 09: 07
              Quote: sergo1914
              Well, for the institute it was necessary.

              It means the same flexible! If the need is close enough, you will crawl on your knees in the dust ...
              1. +4
                15 May 2021 10: 25
                Quote: kalibr
                Quote: sergo1914
                Well, for the institute it was necessary.

                It means the same flexible! If the need is close enough, you will crawl on your knees in the dust ...


                Do you accept to the clan?
        2. +7
          15 May 2021 12: 06
          Flexible (very flexible) spines are abundant, and there is always a suitable religion.
      2. +2
        15 May 2021 18: 47
        Quote: kalibr
        And how it got into the war - they immediately allowed it, and opened it, and allowed it ... That's what is disgusting!

        Are you trying to prove to me that the state spent money on the construction of temples? The only disgusting thing is that, as one grandmother said: "They lie, steal and pray to God."
    5. 0
      15 May 2021 06: 59
      You like Stalin and Hampa better, and I like Arnold Toynbee. That's all ...
    6. +6
      15 May 2021 07: 46
      It would be more interesting to read an article on the topic: "Why and how did religion appear in the world and what is it really?"

      Humorous but correct
      1. +7
        15 May 2021 08: 32
        A.France in Penguin Island, too, is well written about it.
    7. +2
      15 May 2021 17: 41
      Quote: ROSS 42
      Bifurcation - bifurcation
      Bifurcation is not a bifurcation.
      1. +2
        16 May 2021 12: 20
        Good afternoon, colleague! )))
        In the social sciences, a bifurcation point is understood as a moment after which a return to the previous state is no longer possible.
        The closer the society comes to the point of bifurcation, the more difficult it is to return everything as it was, but with increasing efforts it is still possible. And after passing through it is impossible at all.
  10. +6
    15 May 2021 05: 38
    Alexander Pushkin

    Freedom sower is a desert,
    I went out early, to the star;
    A clean and innocent hand
    In the enslaved reins
    Threw a life-giving seed -
    But I lost only time,
    Good thoughts and works ...

    Ride, peaceful people!
    You will not be awakened by the call.
    Why herds of gifts of freedom?
    They should be cut or cut.
    Their inheritance from generation to generation
    Yarmo with rattles and scourge.

    November 1823, XNUMX
    1. +2
      15 May 2021 06: 52
      I keep forgetting about this poem. It's high time to put it in the epigraph ...
  11. +4
    15 May 2021 05: 40
    The topic is somehow revealed. A bit of history before the 14th century

    Consequences (the Russian alphabet was 49 (7x7) letters, the general literacy of the population was restored only under the Bolsheviks) intelligent, literate and freedom-loving people who do not have slavery, Byzantium is not needed ... Fragmentation, weakening in front of an external enemy. This is due to the adoption of Orthodoxy. He was not accepted at once, there was resistance, which was used by the local "potentates" who made a patchwork quilt out of the Russian state, which everyone tore at themselves. Mstislav Udatny and Daniil Romanovich Galitsky, a typical split caused by Orthodoxy and as a result of the Battle of Kalka and other consequences, this happened many times after. Those. Orthodoxy did not act as a unifying force for the Russians, but on the contrary. In addition, many began to look to the side of co-religionists or even Catholics, for example, the same Daniil Romanovich Galitsky.

    Tatar-Mongol yoke. Orthodox priests, unlike the Russians, served the invaders (remember the Second World War and the strongly believing Vlasov), and this is a fact if there was a Tatar-Mongol IGO. The Tatars did not touch the faith of the locals and did not interfere with her collecting money, etc., only if the local "shamans" did not oppose them, then they were simply killed all. The basis of the victory on the Kulikovo field was laid by the ancestors of the Cossacks (ushkuyniks, sometimes they are called Khlynovtsy) and squabbles within the Golden Horde. After the decline of trade in Veliky Novgorod, the Ushkuyniki went to plunder the Tatar-Mongol instead of the Baltic Sea on the Volga, so 15 years before the Battle of Kulikovo they took the gold reserve in Sarai-Batu and burned it. At the same time, Mamai, violating the law of Genghis Khan, began to forcibly Muslims the Tatars, thereby weakening the Golden Horde. Here our priests were already worried, because they were losing their power and money and began to rouse the people to fight. Although some historians believe that Dmitry Donskoy insisted on the battle, and Sergius of Radonezh was opposed. But the church loves to replay everything and cling to other people's victories.
    1. -5
      15 May 2021 06: 54
      Quote: bya965
      general literacy of the population was restored only under the Bolsheviks

      Aha! I met illiterate old women back in 1977. They could neither read nor write. But ... they knew how to sign. And if so, they were considered literate. And the letter ... it can be different.
      1. +4
        15 May 2021 14: 03
        But ... they knew how to sign. And if so, they were considered literate.

        in 1977? They were not considered literate. Moreover, by 1977 no one was chasing 100% literacy, since this is:
        1) did not affect the availability of personnel, and therefore the economy.
        2) no longer depended on the education system, but on when the oldest representatives of society would leave in a corny natural way. Even in statistics, they stopped using the concept of "% of the literate population", since it no longer made sense.
        And the letter ... it can be different.

        There is only one literacy. You are confusing it with education.
    2. +2
      15 May 2021 17: 49
      Quote: bya965
      At the same time, Mamai, violating the law of Genghis Khan, began to forcibly Muslims the Tatars, thereby weakening the Golden Horde.
      In the horde, Khan Uzbek did it before him. If you are talking about our Tatars, then the mighty Central Asian monarchies led them to Islam much earlier (in the 10th century).
      1. 0
        15 May 2021 20: 02
        Quote: bk0010
        In the horde, Khan Uzbek did it before him. If you are talking about our Tatars, then the mighty Central Asian monarchies led them to Islam much earlier (in the 10th century).

        In general, it is true, but there are nuances.
        In addition to the Kazan Tatars, Crimean, Ural, Siberian (Tyumen) Tatars and others live in Russia. The spread of the Islamization of these peoples is significant. However, there was also its own "reconquista", Orthodox Tatars "Nagaybaks" live in the South Urals. Their neighbors, the Bashkirs, converted to Islam in the 16th century.
        By the way, with Khan Uzbek, not everything is so simple. He accepted Islam, but the ethnic Tatar-Mongols lost in the war with him. So his subjects were mostly descendants of local peoples, and not blood children of the Tumen of Genghis Khan.
  12. +1
    15 May 2021 06: 53
    I don't want to be a braggart, but the comments under the first article about the baptism of Russia and the choice
    Vladimir of the Orthodox Faith, I noticed to the author of the article that among the multiple illustrations in the article there is not enough painting by Ivan Eggink "Grand Duke Vladimir chooses religion." It's nice that the author has corrected this gap in today's article, because this painting by Ivan Eggink perfectly shows the very philosophy of the final choice in favor of Eastern Orthodoxy. But who actually shaped Vladimir's views on the need to accept the Christian faith in Russia was the act and choice of his grandmother, Princess Olga. baptized into the Orthodox faith thirty years before the baptism of Vladimir Rus. So the first Orthodox ruler of Russia was Princess Olga, although as regent, and not Prince Vladimir. The baptism of Princess Olga into the Orthodox faith is beautifully shown in the painting by Ivan Akimov, "The Baptism of Princess Olga". Since then, she has been in Orthodoxy, Princess Elena. Although what is the connection between Eggink's painting and the rest of the illustrations in today's article, it is somehow incomprehensible ...
  13. +9
    15 May 2021 06: 59
    900s ... Which Orthodox, which Catholics ??? Remember the Anglicans! Or Mormons!
  14. +8
    15 May 2021 07: 05
    Interestingly also that in honor of the miraculous deliverance of their capital from the siege of the Rus.
    !
    in 860 the Byzantines instituted the feast of the Protection of the Most Holy Theotokos, who interceded the city from the enemy.

    And ... if today this holiday is practically forgotten by the Greeks, then in Russia it is still revered as great and is solemnly celebrated by believers. The famous Church of the Intercession on the Nerl was also built in his honor. But the most surprising thing is that for our ancestors this battle under the walls of Constantinople ended ... in defeat. So, perhaps, only two peoples in the world (Russians and Spaniards) celebrate their military defeat as a holiday

    it's just one of sets versions, and then far-fetched.

    Byzantium fought with many neighbors: in the 910s under Emperor Leo the Wise and Patriarch Macarius, when the Byzantine Empire was at war with Saracens - Muslimsand Constantinople was in danger. Or with the Bulgarians in the year 926.It is to these late wars and include a holiday and this applies only to Greece

    And in Russia, the Pokrov is Russian church holidayinstalled in Russia.
    In other Orthodox churches, he appeared under Russian influence.

    The Intercession of the Virgin, to which the Church of the Intercession on the Nerl (1158-1165) is dedicated, was a holiday, established by Andrey Bogolyubsky ... This holiday is about
    patronage of the Mother of God of the Vladimir land, her prince and his people-at
    memory of the intercession of the Mother of God through Her Vladimir Icon for the army of Andrei Yurievich Bogolyubsky
    in the campaign against the Volga Bulgars in 1164 Therefore, the celebration of "defeat" is simply nonsense for a word of mouth.

    And the most famous temple of the Intercession of the Virgin in the world is St. Basil's Cathedral - in memory of the victories won over Kazan under the patronage of the Mother of God.

    So no one celebrates "their defeat", this is nonsense.
    Then Russia would become an outpost of the Muslim religion in Europe. The teachings of Al-Biruni, Avicenna, the poetry of Ferdowsi, the rhymed prose of Abu Bakr al-Khorezmi would have been revealed to her centuries earlier, she would have learned who Jamil and Busayna, Majnun and Leila, Qays and Lubne were. The country would be covered with beautiful mosques and comfortable caravanserais.
    what "Avicenna" and other "achievements" were in the same tightly stuck in slavery, savagery and the Middle Ages in the Bukhara and Khorezm khanates, annexed to Russia in the 19th century? And Russia would be the same.

    Roughly speaking, we are for the whole world that “Manure in the hole. And drowning does not drown, and does not float like that

    We know perfectly well what floats in the hole and what does not sink. This is WHAT should hit in the head in order to speak SUCH about your country? fool
    No words ...

    We became a third party in this the world.

    a surprisingly illiterate statement: there are many such sides in the world. Of the largest, more in number of believers than the Orthodox are Hinduism, Buddhism, Confucianism. And a host of other parties.

    Photos are beautiful. And this only plus in the article.

    everything else is minus.
    1. -4
      15 May 2021 07: 37
      Quote: Olgovich
      everything else is minus.

      The funny thing, Olgovich, is that this is a "simplified and simplified" version of an old scientific article, which, by the way, is in the E-ibrary and even, I don't remember exactly, in English. In some peer-reviewed scientific journal. Only without pictures it is clear, with only maps. There was a completely different level of perception and criticism ... Alas. But you have to write for people like you. Scientists are not paid for scientific articles.
      1. +3
        15 May 2021 09: 21
        Here's about the cards, Vyacheslav Olegovich, please, in more detail. Could you provide a link to the source? I want to get acquainted, because I do not agree with many details of the constructs.
        Thank you!
        1. +1
          16 May 2021 16: 52
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          Could you provide a link to the source? I want to get acquainted, because I do not agree with many details of the constructs.

          I can't, Anton. The article is about 20 years old. It was a scientific article with links and maps, but the sources were bad and A. Sheps redrawn them for me. Then the need for "science" disappeared and the material in different versions went into popular literature ...
          1. +1
            16 May 2021 17: 03
            It's a pity of course. For even on the basis of my modest historical knowledge, both constructs lame on both legs.
            1. 0
              16 May 2021 17: 16
              Anton, I can't say anything. Then it was very popular, interesting and trendy. I wrote about this to Edward, asked permission. For a long time, by the way. And then ... it came together.
              1. +1
                16 May 2021 17: 29
                Yes, God is with him, Vyacheslav Olegovich! Simply, I want to note that really interesting "alternatives" require a more serious approach.
                1. -2
                  16 May 2021 17: 33
                  Quote: 3x3zsave
                  really interesting "alternatives" require a more serious approach.

                  I agree with you, Anton. But here everything was according to the principle: the rich are the ones they are happy about. And again ... sorry for being rude (not addressed to you), but what for? There were three articles on 80-90 - the activities of the CPSU in ... in the Volga region. All from my daughter's dissertation, defended in 2004 at Moscow State University. MosGU is the Moscow University for the Humanities. The place is very serious, as is the Council there. And ... there is only one "joy" - a lot of comments. About the content of which we will not. And now we are doing "more serious material" ... A lot of work, a lot of effort, a lot of links ... And what will change? NOTHING! And if so, why?
                  1. +1
                    16 May 2021 17: 44
                    And if so, why?
                    Well, maybe so that I was interested ... Excuse me for being self-centered.
                    1. -1
                      16 May 2021 17: 48
                      Anton! And about you and about many others ... I remember all the time. But ... "you don't make the weather." That's the problem. I always told my students: you work for 80%! Alas, this is so. Remember the movie "Tiger Tamer"? What did the "bad tamer" say - "This is the cash register!"
                      1. -1
                        16 May 2021 18: 09
                        Vyacheslav Olegovich! I always remember the main slogan of journalism: "We bring crap (in the original more invective) to the masses." However, maybe sometimes it is worth writing something not for the sake of "clicks", but for the sake of the interest of those "inglorious bastards" who respect you?
                      2. -1
                        16 May 2021 18: 33
                        Quote: 3x3zsave
                        sometimes

                        Do I write such materials "sometimes". Quite often, I think.
                      3. +3
                        16 May 2021 18: 49
                        Sorry, Vyacheslav Olegovich, but this is not so. From year to year, the quality of the presentation of your materials decreases. Drive to Murzilka soon. This is not only my opinion, this is the opinion of your pool on this resource. Simply, all the rest observe the "polity", and I am a jester - can I take the hell out of a fool?
                      4. 0
                        16 May 2021 18: 59
                        Quote: 3x3zsave
                        From year to year, the quality of the presentation of your materials decreases.

                        I'm getting old, Anton, there's nothing you can do about it. But on the other hand, I have an excuse: there are many younger people, and the problem is ... similar!
                      5. +1
                        16 May 2021 19: 09
                        We are all getting old, me too. Moreover, in my genre, it is fast.
                        Is this a reason for poor quality work?
                      6. +1
                        16 May 2021 19: 15
                        Quote: 3x3zsave
                        Is this a reason for poor quality work?

                        Anton! I almost always have one quality + - And don't expect the best, I just don't see any reason to try to improve it, including for you!
                      7. 0
                        16 May 2021 19: 20
                        Frankly and tough! Appreciate.
                      8. +2
                        17 May 2021 14: 26
                        We will be happy to burn you.
                        Are we bastards? of course, you bastards!
                        Why do we need it -
                        And not for what!
                        fellow (song of nettle shoots).

                        Anton, you remind me both! One even has a guitar! Directly drove Vyacheslav Olegovich into a nettle with a song! laughing drinks A request not to be offended by anyone is a friendly joke!
                      9. +1
                        17 May 2021 14: 35
                        I will definitely be offended! crying
                        "And I will leave without a hat on a cold night" (C)
                      10. +3
                        17 May 2021 15: 04
                        "And I will leave without a hat on a cold night" (C)

                        No, don't, you will still be useful to us ... wink It's a pity, for some reason the video with the song didn't fit in - apparently, I have paws! request
                      11. +1
                        17 May 2021 15: 33
                        My friend, the one on the left is not * the mustache nanny *? Is he Prokhanov? Or have I mixed everything up again? belayAnd on the right? Priluchny?
                      12. +3
                        17 May 2021 15: 58
                        My friend, the one on the left is not * the mustache nanny *? Is he Prokhanov? Or have I mixed everything up again?

                        Sergey, hello! Yes, Prokhanov! drinks
                        For some reason, the clip does not appear when I insert the link ...
                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9qtL0SrLQw
                        And on the right? Priluchny?

                        The Lord is with You! Compared to your finger! stop Kachan it! "Do not promise a young maiden ..." Heavenly kingdom to him ...
                      13. +2
                        17 May 2021 16: 11
                        Oh! I didn't recognize ... in makeup.
                      14. +1
                        17 May 2021 16: 19
                        Oh! I didn't recognize ... in makeup.

                        In principle, both are the spitting image of Anton! laughing drinks
                        Why didn't you two tell me that Boltorez had published the article? belay
                      15. +2
                        17 May 2021 16: 35
                        Hello-Hello! And who told you in the mail, eh? Not me?!?! bully
                      16. +2
                        17 May 2021 16: 38
                        Hello-Hello! And who told you in the mail, eh? Not me?!?!

                        I lied .... recourse We ask forgiveness! drinks
                      17. +2
                        17 May 2021 16: 41
                        Norma It's all about rest. I understand and approve in every possible way. It's a holy thing.
                      18. +2
                        17 May 2021 18: 11
                        And yet. My friend, the site * Classmates * has a marvelous video, according to the search engine * Get up, get up brother-soldier ... * I highly recommend for viewing, there the little girl-granny again turns out to be in the forties-fatal. Honestly, my man beats a tear, and I'm not drunk.
      2. +4
        15 May 2021 10: 17
        Quote: kalibr

        The funny thing is, Olgovich, that it "simplified and simplified"a variant of an old scientific article, which, by the way, is in the E-ibrary and even, I don't remember exactly, in English.


        this is a DOMESTIC option: or is there a mention of Russia in the English version as "manure in the hole", as you allowed yourself? Do such "folk" metaphors make, in your opinion, clearer than an article? lol

        In communicating with the common people, I suppose, you also use a swear word, to simplify their perception of "ilitaria"?lol

        She-she, funny, kalibr

        Quote: kalibr
        There was a completely different level ..

        Bring it to us, sirim - that "other" level of perception and criticism, "inaccessible" to us.

        for now, the clumsy "highbrow" hints look like empty chatter-boasting.
        Quote: kalibr
        Alas. accounts write for people like you.
        Scientists are not paid for scientific articles.

        Alas, you have to money to do something that you would prefer quite differently, yes. It reminds me of something ... recourse
        1. +7
          15 May 2021 13: 34
          Bring it to us, sirim - that "other" level of perception and criticism, "inaccessible" to us.

          We are all for him - "people who hawala". He is a guru, sometimes he descends to our miserable level in order to improve his financial situation. By the way, even in technical scientific publications, there is a decent amount of garbage. In the historical scientific - even more. This also applies to foreign publications, and for the author a note in an English-language journal is a sign of undoubted intellectual superiority. However, as he knows English here, he has recently demonstrated ("brewers").
          1. +1
            16 May 2021 11: 17
            Quote: Aviator_
            We are all "people who hawala" for him. He is a guru, sometimes he descends to our poor level in order to improve his financial situation.

            somehow, two "weavers" contracted to sew one gur ... oh! the king of the dress that could see only smart people and so on from the entourage gur ... oh! king. Which he wore with pride.

            But we are not from the environment, we are simpler and see that ..., yes! Yes lol
            1. +2
              16 May 2021 12: 57
              He sews this outfit for himself. And only he sees.
        2. +1
          16 May 2021 16: 53
          Quote: Olgovich
          In communicating with the common people, I suppose, you also use a swear word, to simplify their perception of "ilitaria"?

          Otherwise they do not understand!
          1. +1
            17 May 2021 06: 38
            Quote: kalibr
            Otherwise they do not understand!

            you don't understand, how ridiculous and stupid it looks
            Quote: kalibr
            Quote: Olgovich
            Bring it to us, sirim - that "other" level of perception and criticism, "inaccessible" to us.

            Led. Three articles on propaganda and agitation with links to archival materials. 80% were unavailable. But if you are really interested in E-lab at your service.

            what kind of "agitation and propaganda"?

            You wrote:
            this is a "simplified and simplified" version of an old scientific article, which, by the way, is in the E-ibrary and even, I don't remember exactly, in English. In some peer-reviewed scientific journal. Only without pictures it is clear, with only maps. There there was a completely different level of perception and criticism...


            So imagine that "other" level of "perception and criticism".

            and yes, at what level would those old English commentators put an opus with "in the hole"?
            1. -1
              17 May 2021 07: 57
              Quote: Olgovich
              So imagine that "other" level of "perception and criticism".

              What for? This will not help you in any way ... I do not approve of idle curiosity. And one could understand for oneself that the text of a scientific article cannot exclude the phrase "to the public."
              1. 0
                17 May 2021 10: 42
                Quote: kalibr
                What for?.

                Then, at least to confirm that you didn't lie for the sake of a word of mouth

                In the meantime, your ridiculous hints / attempts at a certain "highbrow" are ridiculous

                Quote: kalibr
                You it won't help you at all ..

                Help me not to rivet hastily cooked up on my knee, of ever worse quality (as Anton correctly noted), articles.
                Quote: kalibr
                I do not approve of idle curiosity. And one could understand for oneself that the text of a scientific article cannot exclude the phrase "to the public."

                You can't back up your claims, you don't disapprove.

                And you yourself can understand that such phrases in relation to your country are inappropriate everywhere, incl. and in journalism.
                1. -1
                  17 May 2021 11: 02
                  Olgovich! You have chosen the most wrong way and tone in relation to communication with me. You are trying to prove something to me and teach me something. Both are meaningless activities. And what Anton wrote there, like you, does not matter at all. This is a personal opinion, and for each such opinion there are a dozen others. Your level is not that it would make sense for me to prove something to you. Explained easily? If you become a doctor of historical sciences, then maybe I will listen to you. May be...
                  1. 0
                    18 May 2021 07: 29
                    Quote: kalibr
                    Olgovich! You've chosen the wrong path and tone in relation to communicating with me. You are trying to prove something to me and teach me something. Both are meaningless activities.

                    caliber!
                    I am not interested in your rating of my "paths" and tones.

                    You were just asked to confirm your own specific statement, but you turned out to be untenable.

                    Quote: kalibr
                    Your level is not that it would make sense for me to prove something to you. Explained easily?

                    Learn, for a start, the history of the Orthodox holiday of the Intercession in Russia (at least a version), so that don't talk nonsense about the Russians celebrating their victory over themselves. Such a "level" of knowledge causes only pity. and "manure in the hole" in relation to Russia, and in general disgust ...

                    Did it get there? No.
                    1. -1
                      18 May 2021 07: 39
                      Andrew! It didn't reach me. You see ... the only benefit from you here is this: a lot of clicks that make you useful for the site and for me. I do not care whether I am wealthy for you or not. Absolutely. From you, my words are enough that I myself do not invent anything, there is always a source where something is taken from. But wasting time looking for something to please you is too much honor. Did you get it?
                      1. 0
                        18 May 2021 09: 29
                        Quote: kalibr
                        Andrew! It didn't reach me

                        Vyacheslav! It is seen.
                        Quote: kalibr
                        You see ... use from you here only this: a lot of clicks that make you useful for the site and for me.

                        You see, the one hired for reprises in the circus is very useful: the audience is having fun from the heart, but the character is completely sad: he dreamed of Shakespeare ...

                        But ... with its "level" of "talents" there are no sponsors for the Theater and never will be.

                        That is why the public is good, the hired one is suffering from doing an unloved business and complaining about it ..
                        Quote: kalibr
                        From you, my words are enough that I myself do not invent anything, there is always a source where something is taken from. But wasting time looking for something to pleasetoo much honor for you... Did you get it?

                        Yes, the honor has already been given, when writing "simplifying" articles.

                        Is it really not getting it?
                      2. -1
                        18 May 2021 09: 55
                        One thing comes: with your help 326 comments. It can be sold. Any questions? Or catch up to 350? It would be great! And there is no need to dream of Shakespeare. He took it and opened it ... But give it all to you, give it to you, put it in your mouth ...
                      3. 0
                        18 May 2021 10: 56
                        Quote: kalibr
                        One thing comes: with your help 326 comments. It can be sold. Any questions? Or catch up to 350? It would be great!

                        we are having fun, you are us, respectively, yes.

                        Such, here, squiggle.
                        Quote: kalibr
                        And give it all to you, give it to you, put it in your mouth ...Get around!


                        Of course, we can do just fine without your pearls about the Russians, as "floating, but not sinking in the ice-hole."
                      4. -1
                        18 May 2021 11: 23
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        we will perfectly do without your pearls

                        Don't do it, Andrey! Who's stopping you? Only something pulls you and pulls me to prove something. Isn't it strange? I frankly write to you that there is no sense in this, that the expectation is that the fools are "seized" and they ... begin to write angry philippics, and the more stupid they are, the more of these accusations there are. I even know that you want the last word to remain with you. I promise - it will stay. I will give you such a little joy.
                      5. 0
                        18 May 2021 13: 30
                        Quote: kalibr
                        Don't do it, Andrey! Who's stopping you? Only something pulls you and pulls me to prove something. Isn't it strange? I frankly write to you that there is no sense in this, that the expectation is that the fools are "seized" and they ... begin to write angry philippics, and the more stupid they are, the more of these accusations there are. I even know that you want the last word to remain with you. I promise - it will stay. I will give you such a little joy.

                        repeat.

                        tired of hi
                      6. 0
                        18 May 2021 13: 56
                        Don't do it! And is this the last word?
        3. 0
          16 May 2021 16: 55
          Quote: Olgovich
          Bring it to us, sirim - that "other" level of perception and criticism, "inaccessible" to us.

          Led. Three articles on propaganda and agitation with links to archival materials. 80% were unavailable. But if you are really interested in E-lab at your service.
  15. +1
    15 May 2021 07: 29
    Well, Olga was a Christian. But by what ceremony was she baptized? Most likely in Latin, Roman. There is no doubt that Olga was a Christian. "De Сeremoniis Aulae Bizantinae" is the official description of her reception at the Byzantine court, described by the emperor himself.
    Where he writes in black and white that he cannot be her godfather, because she had a confessor in her retinue, she was already a Christian.
    If Olga had been baptized according to the Byzantine rite, this would have been known, because this is a huge foreign policy achievement of Byzantium. However, there is nothing like this about it.
  16. 0
    15 May 2021 07: 41
    Quote: ROSS 42
    It would be more interesting to read an article on the topic: "Why and how did religion appear in the world and what is it really?"

    This material could be written by my fellow philosophers in the department who were engaged in this topic. But they are kept by the low level of criticism and rudeness in the comments. Not all of them are as thick-skinned as me ...
  17. +2
    15 May 2021 08: 21
    It was then that a Byzantine arrived in Russia, called a philosopher for his wisdom


    Is that what they called him in Russia? Heard him. There another word sounded.
  18. +5
    15 May 2021 08: 42
    “I will accept, - the prince tells him, - I am ready -
    But just humble yourself without damage!
    Descent to Hortory ten hundred plows;
    If I get a ransom from the Korsun merchants,
    I will not touch the city with a finger ”(c).


    And so there were many attempts and do not stop to make our country Catholic, and then - in a creeping way - Protestant.

    The development of Islam can be seen in many cities and regions.

    Alternative reflections are somewhat similar to the young lady's words: “I gave you the best years” (there are more options on this topic).
    1. +4
      15 May 2021 11: 29
      "I gave you the best years"
      "Darling, forgive me, kozla!
      I won't be like that anymore !!! "(C)
      1. +2
        15 May 2021 11: 55
        “I stand under the window
        I'm with a guitar "(c).
        1. +3
          15 May 2021 12: 02
          "If the red maiden lived, but in the basement,
          I would then be shortcards,
          Squat at the window
          We would coo until morning "(C)
          1. +2
            15 May 2021 12: 11
            "As in a troubled volost,
            In a cruel, evil province
            Fell out well done
            All thorns and thorns ”(c).
            1. +3
              15 May 2021 12: 23
              "And my son has a long road,
              State-owned troubles, peak interest "(C)
              1. +2
                15 May 2021 12: 41
                “The road is distant,
                State House "(c).
                1. +1
                  15 May 2021 16: 16
                  "Worms, bubi, blame,
                  And for me - "Crosses"! " (FROM)
                  1. +1
                    15 May 2021 16: 32
                    "Tomorrow we rob the king" (c).
                    1. +1
                      15 May 2021 16: 40
                      "- Chop off his head! - ordered Korleva" (C)
                      1. +1
                        15 May 2021 16: 44
                        “Hey guards! Here's what, guys ... Cut off his head: a parasite "(s).
                      2. +1
                        15 May 2021 16: 48
                        "Head - not (n) oops, tie and lie down" (C)
                      3. +1
                        15 May 2021 17: 02
                        "Don't lose your head!" (from).
                      4. +1
                        15 May 2021 17: 05
                        Why then live?
                      5. +1
                        15 May 2021 17: 14
                        "To make songs sound" (c).

                        Or do you want a detailed answer to a rhetorical question?
                      6. +1
                        15 May 2021 17: 16
                        I want from you.
  19. +5
    15 May 2021 09: 10
    V.O.Shpakovsky, one of the few professional authors on historical topics on the site, but this article, of course, to put it mildly, is rather weak, let's put it this way.
    What is only the reasoning about the Feast of the Protection of the Most Holy Theotokos, it's just something.
  20. +3
    15 May 2021 10: 01
    It's very simple: conversion to Christianity was a traditional Byzantine practice in dealing with pagan peoples who caused trouble for the empire.
    Somehow everyone misses that in addition to Kiev there was also Lord Veliky Novgorod and Pskov, and these were large and densely populated territories at that moment and the oldest Christian churches on the territory of Russia exactly there
  21. +6
    15 May 2021 10: 14
    The author was honestly surprised.

    You need to understand that Russia-Muscovy is a peripheral formation. With all that it implies
    The rise (relative) to the European level took place only under Ivan the Terrible and collapsed under him.
    Further only under Peter.
    Option with Islam. No Islamic Sweden or Islamic Spain. Spain completes the Reconquista before Muscovy becomes any significant force in the European format. The vector of the Crusades in northern Europe is shifting from the Balts to Russia. Unions of Catholic Powers. Formed "Little Entente" 0.0 Poland, Hungary, Sweden. They will successfully contain their eastern neighbor, but they will not gain anything special either.
    The situation may change in the 16th century. It all depends on how well Muslim Crimea and Muslim Moscow get along. If the onslaught of the Krymchaks on the Muscovite state is weakened, the Western powers will become much worse off. But the defeat of the same Poland at that time is hardly a question.

    Option with Catholicism. Normal option. The early history will become richer and more interesting for our readers. Tournaments, crusades. Together we will crush Lithuania and, possibly, we will crush it to its rise. A dynastic alliance with Poland is possible. Wars with her will not go anywhere. But we will probably end the cancer of the Crimean Khanate earlier.
    The reformation will affect Russia to a minimum. As well as Poland. For far from the centers of the reformation. We will remain ardent stubborn Catholics and will compete with the Poles as Shvors on this basis.
    1. +4
      15 May 2021 10: 53
      My respect, Denis! hi
      Aren't you surprised by the presence of a Muslim enclave of the "Christian card" on a territory similar to Tatarstan and Bashkiria?
      Or is it an entirely Christian America on "Islamic"?
      1. +8
        15 May 2021 11: 06
        Aren't you surprised by the presence of a Muslim enclave of the "Christian card" on a territory similar to Tatarstan and Bashkiria?

        Didn't notice. Yes, it's weird
        Or is it an entirely Christian America on "Islamic"?


        The Islamic version on the map is pure fantasy. I don't even consider it.

        People have forgotten that Islam completely lost its civilizational impulse sometime in the 17th century. Further only the fall. The cultural impulse was lost even earlier - somewhere in the 14-15 centuries
        At the beginning of the 20th century, Islamic countries were struck by decadence worse than modern "decaying" Europe. What are the brothels of eunuchs and boys.
        The Islamic "renaissance" today is associated exclusively with the activities of fanatical fundamentalists of varying degrees of obstinacy.
        The Islamic version of civilization is by far the worst long-term choice for everyone. Iran was especially unlucky. This is where the civilizational tragedy is. Although there was no choice (I'm talking about the 7th century), but to voluntarily get into such a thing, thank you ..
        1. +2
          15 May 2021 11: 17
          Islam completely lost its civilizational impulse sometime in the 17th century.
          I agree. However, I will note that it was not so much Islam that lost as Christianity acquired as a result of the Reformation.
          1. +4
            15 May 2021 12: 08
            It is impossible to tie the breakthrough of Christianity, the Western world to the Reformation. The great geographical discoveries, printing, solid armor, the strengthening of cities - all this happened before Luther. Europe became a leader already in the 15th century.
            1. +4
              15 May 2021 12: 17
              Why not? Disappointment in the Church (but not in faith) began long before the Reformation. What you have given are just separate links in the intricacies of cause-and-effect relationships.
              1. +4
                15 May 2021 12: 51
                I am opposed to linking the European breakthrough to some kind of "Protestant ethics" which is a consequence of the Reformation.
                Europe is already a leader in the 16th century, it does not need additional motivation.
                The banking center in 16th century Europe was fiercely Catholic Italy
                In the Netherlands, predominantly Catholic areas in the 16th century are more developed than Protestant ones.
                Etc.
                Dissatisfaction with the church was everywhere. Including in the Moscow state. We can recall the confrontation between the Josephites and the non-possessors. But this did not result in any progress.
                1. +2
                  15 May 2021 13: 14
                  Sorry, I'll be busy now, I'll answer later. hi
                2. +2
                  15 May 2021 16: 11
                  Yes, there is no "Protestant ethics"! This "ethics" is the flesh of the flesh of the most terry Catholicism. My opinion: The Reformation is just the most striking prominence on the way to give a new impetus to a certain cultural paradigm. It could have formed several centuries earlier, but it did not grow together.
                3. +2
                  15 May 2021 23: 30
                  Quote: Engineer
                  Europe is already a leader in the 16th century, it does not need additional motivation

                  And the last European war, in which the religious factor played at least some serious role, was the 30 year war. And the real technological breakthrough of Europe happened later. In the 17th century, the Turks were still on an equal footing.

                  In general, the role of religion is greatly exaggerated. The bloodiest massacres are always between fellow believers)
                  The motives of the breakthrough of Europe are more banal - education, the spread of rights and freedoms, etc.
                  1. +1
                    16 May 2021 13: 10
                    .
                    But the real technological breakthrough in Europe happened later. In the 17th century, the Turks were still on an equal footing.

                    The Turks were always half a step behind.
                    Ships, fortifications, firearms, universities.
                    1. +2
                      16 May 2021 14: 05
                      Quote: Engineer
                      Turks were always half a step behind

                      Nevertheless, back in the 17th century, Turkey was the primary power in the military, economic and political plan. There was no civilizational abyss, regardless of religion.
                      The chasm was formed by the end of the 18th century. And religion played a marginal role in this. NTR began in England (in which the level of personal rights and freedoms, as well as the mass of education, was incomparably higher than in other countries. An additional impulse to the whole process was given by the French Liberté Revolution, egalite ... that's all. And the more people (including women) got access to education, the scientific and technological revolution gained momentum more and more. Collective intelligence, so to speak.
                      And who remained within the strict framework of "elitism" where education, rights and freedoms are the lot of a small stratum, he lagged behind hopelessly. Islam in this regard lost to Christianity because of more rigid dogmas. But it is not only about him. Christian Russia has also been on the margins of the scientific and technological revolution so far The overwhelming majority of the population are powerless analphabet serfs. It is no coincidence that the Russian renaissance in culture and science coincided with the abolition of serfdom in the middle of the 19th century
                      1. +1
                        16 May 2021 14: 19
                        I did not write about the abyss. They were one step behind, but most importantly, the Turks have extensive development and technologies are primarily borrowed. The ceiling is already in the 16th century. The Ottomans are a standard nomadic civilization that has moved to a settled way. Wars, slaves, wealth, prosperity, pomp, decline. Nomadic primordial way of life. Everything is tied to the success of wars
                        Scientific and technological revolution began in England

                        Rather in Holland, but I won't argue.
                        Christian Russia was also in the backyard of the scientific and technological revolution

                        Russia is simply removed from the countries that gave cultural impulses. Early medieval France-Germany-Italy formed a kind of triangle of power. This is the main reason. In Russia, it was not bad with the original literacy. But pre-Mongol Russia is 5 million souls. Germany 12-15, France 20, Italy 10-15. And they all border on each other, fight, trade, travel. There was no need to talk about any adequate competition or Russian civilization at that moment. Stupidly people are not enough. Dialectics. We cannot generate, borrow far away. This is not to mention the underdevelopment of cities, etc. Only in the military sphere were they kept at a decent level.
                      2. +1
                        16 May 2021 14: 41
                        Quote: Engineer
                        Rather in Holland, but I won't argue

                        In the economy, yes, in Holland. In science and industry, after all, England. There was a difference in the number of human potential. And as soon as the United States overtook England in terms of rights and freedoms and population, the palm went to them. It is no coincidence to challenge this primacy in the state is only united Europe, where these parameters are comparable with the American ones.

                        Quote: Engineer
                        Only in the military sphere were they kept at a decent level

                        It is controversial. 99% of Russia's expansion is in the eastern direction, sparsely populated and with backward in socio-political terms and even primitive peoples. In the European direction, except the Baltic States and the partition with Austria and Germany, Poland, which was agonizing at the end of the 18th century.
                      3. +1
                        16 May 2021 14: 57
                        In science, only the photo finish can determine the winner between England and France in the 16-18 centuries.
                        Controversial.

                        You can argue. But it is easier to take, for example, the Swedes of the 16-17 centuries and see their lack of advantage over the Russians.
                        For the 18th century Prussians.
                        For starters 19 French
                        But my original post was about the medieval period. And there the Galicia-Volyn principality alone restrains and defeats both Poland and Hungary
                      4. 0
                        16 May 2021 15: 31
                        Quote: Engineer
                        And there the Galicia-Volyn principality alone restrains and defeats both Poland and Hungary

                        This is probably why, over the course of some 100 years, this principality disappeared from the maps, and its territories turned out to be part of the very Poland and Hungary, not the most advanced European states)
                      5. +1
                        16 May 2021 15: 35
                        Dynastic crisis. It turned out to be an escheated possession of a legal contender for which the Lithuanians became. The military sphere has nothing to do with it.
                      6. +2
                        16 May 2021 15: 45
                        Quote: Engineer
                        Dynastic crisis

                        For some reason, I remembered a very popular theory on the site, explaining the collapse of the USSR by the betrayal of one person)
                        Without arguing about the particulars and episodes, objectively, over a thousand-year period, Russia's expansion takes place to the East / North / South, but not to the West. And given that in the issue of territorial expansion, military power is the main argument and method, the conclusion is quite unambiguous.
                      7. +2
                        16 May 2021 15: 52
                        Yes, you turn out to be a Marxist, since you deny the role of personality).
                        It is better to remember not VO theorists, but suitable analogies. For example this one.
                        https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%B5%D0%B1%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%82%D1%8C%D1%8F%D0%BD_I
                        And given that in the issue of territorial expansion, military force is the main argument and method, the conclusion is quite unambiguous.

                        Major, but not exhaustive. I believe that any determinism must be overcome. History will not fit into the Procrustean bed of dogmas and squalid schemes.
                      8. +1
                        16 May 2021 16: 01
                        Quote: Engineer
                        role of personality

                        The personality in history can play a role only when it relies on the objective needs and processes of the country, and not when it is tyrannical). This society promotes the individuals it needs at that moment, and not vice versa.
                      9. +1
                        16 May 2021 16: 07
                        I gave a specific example of a dynastic crisis and its consequences.
                        Read the sunset of the Civil War of Russia and you will see that the military component did not play a role there.
                        The military competitiveness of the principality against these opponents is a fairly well-known thing.
                        This society promotes the individuals it needs at that moment, and not vice versa.

                        By golly a Marxist. laughing
                        Threat
                        Military power does not fall from the sky; it is a product of economics, politics, education, scientific and technological revolution, etc.

                        I wish it were that simple. Alas, only partially
                      10. +1
                        16 May 2021 16: 20
                        Quote: Engineer
                        a concrete example of a dynastic crisis and its consequences.

                        This example rather refutes your thesis. Despite the dynastic crisis, Portugal did not disappear from the world map and remains there to this day)
                        Quote: Engineer
                        By golly a Marxist

                        And also say that

                        History will not fit into the Procrustean bed of dogmas and squalid schemes
                        .
                        Random people do not fall on the "throne". And if they do, they do nothing of history. History is created by the broad masses, and not by individuals)
                      11. +1
                        16 May 2021 16: 28
                        First, instead of discussing the original topic, you prefer to challenge the analogy.
                        Secondly, the Portuguese renaissance happened for two reasons. The Portuguese, unlike the GVR, were not a loose feudal formation, but quite a nation. Precisely by the nation. The second is that the Englishwoman has spoiled Spain with taste. No English were found for the GVR.
                        Accidental people do not get to the "throne". And if they do, they do nothing of history.

                        The Lord is with you. They fall constantly and everyone loses on an epic scale. Quite a historical achievement that has a noticeable impact on the course of history.
                      12. +1
                        16 May 2021 16: 40
                        Quote: Engineer
                        challenge the analogy.

                        I am discussing your analogy, which supposedly had to confirm something
                        Quote: Engineer
                        original theme

                        The initial theme is why Russia has not expanded to the West in 1000 years and how this characterizes its military strength.
                        loose feudal education
                        which existed for several decades in the 13th century on the eastern periphery of Poland and Hungary, which in turn are the eastern periphery of the conditional West, and the fact that this episode somehow proves the military strength of the Russian world is your contribution to the discussion, not mine)
                        Quote: Engineer
                        They fall constantly and everyone loses on an epic scale. Quite a historical achievement that has a noticeable impact on the course of history.

                        Can I have an example (s)?
                      13. +1
                        16 May 2021 16: 49
                        The fighting efficiency of the Russian armies was proved precisely by the fact that a separate, not the strongest, "loose" formation won more than once or twice the royal armies of Western Europe, even if they were of secondary importance. And it disappeared from the dynastic crisis and lack of identity.
                        Can I have an example (s)?

                        Honorius, Charles 6, Henry 6,
                      14. +1
                        16 May 2021 17: 14
                        Quote: Engineer
                        Honorius, Charles 6, Henry 6,

                        And how did the personalities of the first two influence the course of history? Things went more or less in the same way as before and after, as far as I know.
                        Henry 6 is a member of the party of supporters of the end of the ruinous and hopeless for England hundred-year war, which literally killed the country's economy and eventually led to a civil war. European superpowers, and England - and the world. So Henry is an example of a personality pushed to the top by the objective needs of the country and serves as an example opposite to your thesis
                      15. 0
                        17 May 2021 11: 29
                        Honorius killed Stilicho. The only person who held back the barbarians.
                        Charles 6 and his madness prevented the completion of the century 50 years earlier
                        Henry 6 was not anyone's henchman. He is the hereditary sovereign. Beaufort and Sommerset wanted peace, but it was a rout.
                        The end of the century and the civil war were a disaster for England. The army simply died in the fields of Castillon and Touton. At Bosworth, the royal army was overpowered by a handful of Welsh and French mercenaries. England was simply kicked out of the ranks of the great European powers. The end of the war was no springboard. Another 120 years elapsed before the rise of England under Elizabeth. The VGO was the springboard for England and it is common knowledge.
                      16. +1
                        16 May 2021 16: 03
                        Quote: Engineer
                        Main, but not exhaustive

                        Military power does not fall from the sky; it is a product of economics, politics, education, scientific and technological revolution, etc.
    2. +1
      15 May 2021 23: 19
      I repeat, incredibly much would have changed in a thousand years, the consequences are extremely difficult to predict.
      It all depends on how well Muslim Crimea and Muslim Moscow get along. If the onslaught of the Krymchaks on the Muscovite state is weakened, the Western powers will become much worse off. But the defeat of the same Poland at that time is hardly a question.

      What about the overlord of the Krymchaks, the Ottoman Empire? An alliance on religious grounds and joint campaigns against European countries, or, at least, a stable peace, untie the hands of the Ottomans and Crimeans.
      The rise (relative) to the European level took place only under Ivan the Terrible and collapsed under him.
      as a result of the Time of Troubles, which came after the death of all male representatives of the Rurik dynasty. If we assume the adoption of Islam with polygamy and harems, then the likelihood of such an outcome is significantly lower.
      Option with Catholicism. Normal option. The early history will become richer and more interesting for our readers. Tournaments, crusades.
      Campaigns, coupled with alliances with European countries, especially dynastic ones, make hypothetical history fundamentally unpredictable.
      A dynastic alliance with Poland is possible. Wars with her will not go anywhere. 
      why not complete union? The Polish tsar was already in Moscow, did not sit still, not least because of religious contradictions between Catholics and Orthodox.
      We will remain ardent, stubborn Catholics and will compete with the Poles as shvors on this basis.
      if we don't become one nation. Or we will not split into more countries with completely unusual borders.
      1. +1
        16 May 2021 13: 39
        I repeat, incredibly much would have changed in a thousand years, the consequences are extremely difficult to predict.

        Of course
        What about the overlord of the Krymchaks, the Ottoman Empire?

        Rather, nothing. Or not much. Until the 17th century, we practically did not intersect. And Turkey did not press on Poland until the 17th century, except for the war of 1485-1503. In the 17th century, you can start to coordinate, but too late.
        as a result of the Time of Troubles, which came as a result of the death of all male representatives of the Rurik dynasty

        Grozny's claims collapsed during his lifetime. Economic crisis, lost war. Russia was pushed back to the periphery
        Campaigns, coupled with alliances with European countries, especially dynastic ones, make hypothetical history fundamentally unpredictable.

        Why unpredictable? The main consequence of the campaigns is that all states remained with their own. Therefore, I am inclined to believe that nothing will change. The exception is the Balts and the Western Slavs, but they did not have a state.
        why not complete union? The Polish tsar was already in Moscow, did not sit still, not least because of religious contradictions between Catholics and Orthodox.

        Full unions are possible, but for the time being see Denmark-Norway. The Polish tsar did not sit in Moscow. They swore allegiance to the prince Vladislav, the Russian tsar, and not the king of Russia and Poland. It was not a union. So Sigismund Waza became king of Poland, but this did not become the union of Poland and Sweden.
        I do not recall any cases of unification (not conquest) of different kingdoms after the 10th century, except for England-Scotland. The Kalmar union disintegrated, Germany is a special case when not a union, but a reunification took place. There were also Leon and Castile, but the proximity of these kingdoms and the common origin are obvious, in contrast to Poland-Russia.
        Unification is possible, but unlikely.
        .
        Or we will not split into more countries with completely unusual borders.

        Centralization is more typical for Europe than for Rus - it began earlier. Perhaps we will not even have ladder law, but there will be direct inheritance. And if so, then we will not disintegrate.
        1. 0
          16 May 2021 20: 03
          Grozny's claims collapsed during his lifetime. Economic crisis, lost war. Russia was pushed back to the periphery
          ... Not really, the endgame defeats of Grozny's reign did not lead to the loss of all of his many territorial conquests, nor did they cancel the reforms. The main territorial losses, especially the strategically important outlets to the northern seas, are already the consequences of the Troubles.
          They swore allegiance to the prince Vladislav, the Russian tsar, and not the king of Russia and Poland. It was not a union
          I agree, but it was also a conquest with one "but". Semboyarshina opened the gates of Moscow and the Kremlin to the Poles voluntarily, calling on other besieged cities and monasteries to end resistance.
          On the one hand, this can be understood - anarchy and anarchy destroyed the country, and among themselves the nobility could not decide who was more worthy.
          The main consequence of the campaigns is that all states remained with their own. 
          depending on which side you look at:
          1. Reducing the intensity of wars in Europe, for many people of the sword and passionaries went on campaigns.
          2. The flow of jewelry, knowledge and technology from the East, spurring economic development and scientific and technological progress.
    3. +2
      16 May 2021 13: 52
      Denis, what do I see ... laughing wassat
      Apparently, something happened in the world, but I don't know.
      Once again I got out on the daytime surface of the Bar, but received positive ratings for his comments, and not minuses, as before.
      Vyacheslav Olegovich publishes an article not about pieces of iron, not about travel and not about the Soviet past.
      Denis Engineer creates constructions in the genre of alternative history.
      laughing
      My opinion about the article does not open the field for "historical fantasies" of varying degrees of irresponsibility, nothing more.
      I will explain my thought.
      Vladimir had no choice of religion. After an unsuccessful attempt to reform paganism and realizing the need and usefulness of sacralizing princely power, there was only one option - Byzantium, which was nearby and already had a huge cultural impact on Russia, and its religion penetrated both the highest ranks of state dignitaries and, in principle, into the environment of the urban population. This was due to the fact that the religious centers of all other confessions were somewhere very far away and were, in a practical sense, difficult to access, while Constantinople - here it is, the road is broken, trodden and well known.
      But even if we ignore the inevitability of accepting baptism from Byzantium (we will mentally erase it from the map), and admit the possibility of a different development of events, then whatever confession Russia did not accept, due simply to its geographical, climatic characteristics, it was doomed to stew in its own juice and, consequently, to have their own, different from others, culture and, accordingly, religion. Another world, other economic relations, other values. It seems to me that it would be a "special" Islam or a "special" Roman Christianity, which would immediately and strongly begin to differ from the canonical ones, and belong to them only formally, in fact, being completely independent, unique, with significant differences both in philosophy and and in the rite.
      That is, it is still the third force. In principle, I think there would be no global changes in the global order. smile
      1. +1
        16 May 2021 14: 06
        Denis Engineer creates constructions in the genre of alternative history.

        Bitten by one user.)
        The alternate "plays" the alternative. He builds a logical chain from the alternative, preferably a global one. This new chain is his main hobby.
        I am simply stating the possibility and trying to paint a generalized portrait.
        Vladimir had no choice of religion.

        Rather it was.
        Adalbert's mission and that's all
        Fundamentally, there would be no global changes in the global order

        What am I writing?
        You need to understand that Russia-Muscovy is a peripheral formation. With all that it implies
        Religion doesn't decide.
        Forget all about global change. According to Marx, it is the level of development of the productive forces that decides. For me, technology and general way of life (not to be confused with formations and progressivism and the primacy of the economy in general). There is little room for religion.
        1. +1
          16 May 2021 15: 19
          Quote: Engineer
          technologies and general structure

          Technology is understandable. And what is the "general order"? Technology is not included in it?
          Quote: Engineer
          Adalbert's mission

          Yes, how many such missions were, and not only to Russia ... The success of such missions was determined not by the very fact that they were and not even the personal qualities of missionaries, but by the presence of a whole set of circumstances, as a rule, independent of the will of specific individuals or in the composition mission, nor from the "host" side.
          By the time the question of establishing a state religion matured, Byzantium had already so firmly staked out a clearing for itself in Russia that there was no longer any talk of adopting other confessions.
          1. +1
            16 May 2021 15: 32
            And what is the "general order"? Technology is not included in it?

            By the type of economy - sedentary, nomadic, semi-nomadic. Geography - seaside, mountainous. Tribal-polis. Strictly vertical or branched. There are many dimensions.
            Technology is not part of the way. Especially the military. There has already been a discas about the generation of military technologies in a nomadic environment. It seems the Oxford school is not strong in historiography. But it does not explain why the nomads were so generous. We have a widespread point of view that technologies appear in the field of contacts. In any case, technology cannot be explained by a simple derivative of the way of life. This is something special. The advanced fortification of sedentary peoples with developed statehood and large resources can be explained by the way of life. The complex composite bow of the Scythians and its evolution is gone.
            1. +1
              16 May 2021 16: 10
              I promise to think about it ... smile
  22. -2
    15 May 2021 10: 16
    The author firmly believes that he is like "manure in the hole" (C)? laughing
  23. +6
    15 May 2021 12: 02
    "There is only one conclusion: neither people ...... do not know their fate!" (c) Got caught on a bribe. I knew what I was doing.
    Why did Vladimir accept Christianity in the Byzantine version? The answer was always obvious - look for money (or who likes the benefit more). The people don't care. And a fairy tale about the competition of religions, so this is a fairy tale.
    Strange article. It turns out, according to the author, Russia is like manure (read - shit) dangling in an ice-hole!
    Well done - showed the true face of a liberal!
    1. +5
      15 May 2021 12: 16
      Kundera (and you cannot accuse him of great sympathy for the Russians) in one of his books mentioned: "If a big nation is Russians or Germans ...."

      There is always some kind of core and periphery. Another thing is that the centers can change in life.
      1. +5
        15 May 2021 12: 20
        I have not read Kundera, but for this phrase I "approve"
        Everything is changeable, I agree that today is dung, and tomorrow you are looking at a diamond.
      2. -3
        15 May 2021 13: 12
        Damn, what are you talking about: we, the Russians, broke the backbone of the Mongols in the 15th century, the Tatars in the 16th century, the Poles in the 17th, Swedes in the 18th, the French in the 19th, Austro-Hungarians , Turks, Germans, Japanese and British - in the 20th (we are accelerating, however).

        Therefore, Germans with a broken back cannot be a "big nation" by definition.
        1. +1
          15 May 2021 14: 49
          That is, Goethe could still claim to belong to the "big nation"?
          And modern Bayern is no longer there?
          1. +1
            15 May 2021 17: 41
            Beer or team? It’s an unimportant day today, and even talking about religion in terms of the choice of faith disgusts me.
            1. +1
              15 May 2021 17: 45
              Team. I wouldn't dare compare Goethe with beer.

              It's hot today, but nice rain.
              1. +1
                15 May 2021 18: 23
                If it was in Goethe's time, then he probably used it. I only specified the name "Bavaria".

                And today there are gusts of wind. Doors and windows are slamming; the persistent bee had to be carefully escorted out several times. It's good that not a bumblebee. I tried to penetrate.
                1. +1
                  16 May 2021 19: 22
                  But today it is warm and good. Early varieties of lilacs bloom.
                  1. +1
                    16 May 2021 20: 33
                    And with each passing day rule the sun at sunset in these minutes. A pleasantly hot red-gold ball rolls along the horizon, looking into my window. Life is so flexible, but with cigarette smoke the moments are irrevocably gone, and with them life. And now there is no sun, only the ridge of red clouds, and the singing of a distant track.
                    1. +1
                      16 May 2021 22: 56
                      Evenings from May to August are a fairy tale.
                      1. +1
                        16 May 2021 23: 37
                        And every year - different. I remember how the collider was launched. In the sky there are clear thin hoops of water vapor. I found confirmation on the Internet: yes, there is such a thing all over the world. And in the evenings - dramatic sunsets with figures, landscapes, palaces and scenes of some kind of struggle. Then there was a year with strange thunderstorms, which were even talked about in the news. One of the thunderstorms - stroboscopic, flashing lightning several times per second, lasted an hour. It was a disco organized by nature for the Moscow region. And now this is no longer, there is still the quiet beauty of sunsets and unnatural lighting in the morning - this is when there are no clouds. Something has changed in nature)))
                      2. +1
                        17 May 2021 06: 17
                        The connection with the collider is extremely curious.
                        There are so many factors influencing the climate: it is no coincidence that He is compared with the ensemble.
          2. -3
            16 May 2021 15: 34
            How many vigorous charges do Bayern Munich have? laughing
            1. +1
              16 May 2021 19: 24
              The nuclear baton is useful, but not universal.

              India and Pakistan have entered this club for a long time.
        2. +2
          15 May 2021 22: 54
          Tataram - in the 16th
          rather, in the 18th, the last Tatar raid on Russian lands was in 1769.
          Poles - in the 17th
          which did not stop at the beginning of the twentieth century to defeat the Soviet armies in the Soviet-Polish war.
          the British
          excuse me, but when and in what war were the British defeated?
  24. +2
    15 May 2021 13: 49
    Good day. Vyacheslav Olegovich, I respect you, but as they say: "the truth is more expensive" + I'm very curious.
    “Embrace Islam” in the nineties, I read that Vladimir finally got the better of his lust and converted to Islam.
    This is me, and now a couple of questions:
    1) colleagues, Vyacheslav Olegovich, have you ever wondered why: Vladimir, already an established person, believed in Christ like that?
    There is a scientific explanation for this in 'PVL'
    2) "they even let them in shert", but now what is the situation with that?
    1. +1
      16 May 2021 17: 07
      Quote: Astra wild2
      and now how is it going?

      And now I have not been there - travel to Europe is covered.
      1. +1
        16 May 2021 17: 19
        Quote: kalibr
        And now I have not been there - travel to Europe is covered

        Not vaccinated yet?
        1. +1
          16 May 2021 17: 29
          I was ill and very hard. And a wife, a daughter with a son-in-law, and a granddaughter. Everyone got it ... Let's go to our sea to swim, breathe the sea air, sleep and do nothing. We found cozy places ... We travel by bus, and it takes a lot of energy. Let's add health to ourselves and then ...
          1. +1
            16 May 2021 23: 36
            You will need a "vaccine passport" for travel
            And in shorts they go in as before. The pandemic has not changed the rules)
            1. 0
              17 May 2021 05: 36
              Quote: Liam
              You will need a "vaccine passport" for travel

              While it makes no sense to vaccinate. There is immunity. Let's see how it will be next year. Swimming in the sea is also good ...
            2. +2
              18 May 2021 16: 34
              Colleague Liam, are you vaccinated yourself? I've been vaccinated for a long time
              1. +1
                18 May 2021 18: 43
                I'm not yet. My age category will be vaccinated in a couple of weeks.
                1. 0
                  18 May 2021 20: 54
                  60+ have been vaccinated since January.
                  Excuse me, just now I realized: you live abroad, and there are your own standards
                  1. +1
                    18 May 2021 21: 01
                    I'm far from 60+)
          2. 0
            18 May 2021 16: 30
            Good luck
  25. +2
    15 May 2021 16: 04
    In fact, it is very superficial and idealized.

    not a word is said that Vladimir at first for a long time sought to arrange a centralized, tough pagan faith. With central temples, orders, etc.

    and only later, at an age, apparently disillusioned with the recalcitrant freedom-loving pagans, did he introduce Christianity.
    Since it was already centralized, with a developed reverence for rank, and a ready-made mechanism for fooling the population
    1. 0
      16 May 2021 17: 07
      Quote: Max1995
      not a word is said that Vladimir at first for a long time sought to arrange a centralized, tough pagan faith. With central temples, orders, etc.

      Why write about it? When is it about something completely different?
      1. 0
        16 May 2021 23: 19
        In something you are right.
        The article immediately, without explanation, goes to the final part, to Orthodoxy.
        and By the results after the adoption
  26. +2
    15 May 2021 17: 28
    Due to the fact that Vladimir chose the faith of Byzantium, the country is rather weak, sandwiched between Catholics and Muslims
    Vladimir was not: Byzantium was then the only civilized country - then only there was the only university in Europe, and maybe in the world as well (Pandidakterion), only there it was possible to gain knowledge and skills. There were only ignorant savages in Europe. In addition, then Byzantium was a powerful power, in the 11th century it had a new heyday, there was still a lot of time before the crisis of the 13th century. True, Byzantium threw Vladimir: a scanty number of monks came, masters did not appear at all.
  27. +1
    15 May 2021 17: 36
    It’s strange. If at the time of the choice of faith, Prince Vladimir was the same as in Eggink's painting, why did he need a harem of 2000 women?
  28. +1
    15 May 2021 18: 29
    Respect!
    Probably the only author who remembered Askold and his alter ego Dir.
    There was also Olga!
    An interesting moment with the drawn maps of the spread of religions!
    And why? North and South America are a priori portrayed as Catholic or Muslim then?
    As if at the beginning of the centuries Muslims were not forced to change their faith!
    And at the time of its creation, Islam was an alternative, at the same time a strong one, to Orthodoxy.
    And the war between Orthodoxy and Muslims was unleashed by non-Muslims.
    The Crusades are to blame. And the descendants reap the results!
  29. -1
    15 May 2021 20: 03
    Rave. The author forgot that the Soviet rockets were not interested in religion - that is his whole "history". Ugh!
    1. 0
      16 May 2021 08: 50
      Quote: Doliva63
      Soviet missiles were not interested in religion

      deeply mistaken yet how interested
      just the religion of Orthodoxy was changed in 17 to communism
      1. -2
        16 May 2021 19: 40
        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
        Quote: Doliva63
        Soviet missiles were not interested in religion

        deeply mistaken yet how interested
        just the religion of Orthodoxy was changed in 17 to communism

        My friend, if you do not distinguish religion from ideology, it does not paint you. Let me remind you: religion is based on blind faith, and ideology is based on the conscious acceptance of certain postulates. We haven't communicated for a long time! laughing
        1. -1
          16 May 2021 20: 16
          in this particular case, the differences are not significant, more precisely one (belief in the supernatural)
          everything else, including saints and even saints in their pure form, religion, however, the religious movements of the East are far from all connected with the supernatural
          1. -2
            16 May 2021 20: 26
            Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
            in this particular case, the differences are not significant, more precisely one (belief in the supernatural)
            everything else, including saints and even saints in their pure form, religion, however, the religious movements of the East are far from all connected with the supernatural

            I would put it differently - nothing to do with the word at all.
            1. 0
              16 May 2021 21: 40
              and the flag is in your hands
              1. 0
                17 May 2021 18: 46
                How generous you are! laughing
            2. 0
              16 May 2021 21: 46
              especially for you
              https://studme.org/262125/filosofiya/shodstvo_razlichie_religii_ideologii
        2. 0
          16 May 2021 21: 46
          Quote: Doliva63
          religion is based on blind faith

          you would first learn the basics of the concepts that you use
  30. +1
    15 May 2021 22: 42
    IMHO, it is almost impossible to predict how the fate of the Slavic lands would develop. For centuries, religion has been an important factor in declaring wars and making alliances, with the victors usually implanting their faith in the vanquished. Therefore, it is simply unrealistic to predict how the religious map of the world would have looked then, which has become so much due to the era of great geographical conquests.
  31. -1
    16 May 2021 01: 16
    They somehow primitively describe Vladimir's choice of the state religion, as if he were choosing boots at the bazaar ...
    But the process had been going on for a long time: the Roman Empire was collapsing, the Byzantine Empire after Justinian, at best, managed not to degrade, but for the legacy of Constantine and its practical application - the Christian religion was such a "struggle for peace" that often there was no stone unturned. It is very convenient for the "vertical of power".
    A little earlier, the events described, Charlemagne became a champion, interpreter and promoter of Christianity in Europe, for which he more than once tortured the Saxons, overthrew the king of the Lombards, appropriating this title to himself (control of Italy, except for the south), the Duke of Bavaria, Aquitaine, fell from him and the Slavs in Central Europe (the field of which the Catholics are for the Slavs for a couple of centuries are enemies, although the Poles have successfully integrated, but later, the Croats - even later). He presented the treasures of Attila to the church, he personally examined the interpretation of the Bible at church councils.
    He supported the post of the Pope and shared his influence - for which he was eventually proclaimed "Emperor of the West", and later, for political reasons, was recognized as such by Byzantium.
    So Vladimir had an example, albeit an old one, but he gave prospects - be healthy!
    And in a thousand-year perspective, they were justified - the Orthodox religion became almost the only, except for language, point of unification of the Eastern Slavs into a single state. Which, undoubtedly, came out better than that of Charlemagne, whose European Union collapsed immediately after his death. And it was never restored, except for the conquest of Europe by Napoleon or Hitler.
    What would the acceptance of Judaism give - I can’t even imagine. The Jews didn’t distribute their religion, didn’t promote it to the masses, it is still possible to become a Jew from a Jewish mother, and in no other way. Although, some kind of diffusion did take place: In the Khazar Kaganate there were white Khazars - the nobility, apparently originating from Persia, who in turn got there from native Judea for a number of reasons, and the black Khazars - local nomads of obvious genetics, also considered "white "them for the real Jews - a big question, with this and in modern Israel, everything is not easy. We also inherited the "Mountain Jews" mainly in the Caspian regions of Dagestan and Azerbaijan - purely Caucasians, but here are the Jews. In short, religion is not for building an empire, such a very closed club ...
    Well, and Islam, despite its flourishing at that time in the Middle East and in the Maghreb, was already losing its offensiveness and expansion, and in fact it spread on the spears of the nomads, and reflected the form of mandatory strict obedience to the suras of the Koran, which was interpreted in the Center. Mongols and Turks gave a second wind to its spread, and also very involuntarily.
    So it was somehow out of place for Vladimir to accept him. He was not defeated by the armies of the bearers of Islam.
    But when the Mongols (Uzbek Khan) converted to Islam already as the owners of this project, they did not impose it on Rus, due to a number of factors and reasons. Maybe they made a mistake with this, but they themselves were still not so stubborn and consistent Muslims.
    So here - Vladimir (now he is a saint, he would be surprised if he knew!) And Orthodoxy - this is such a combination, the rest is unlikely ... Of course, Svyatoslav could have done it, had he lived longer. Someone could have been after Vladimir, but it was high time, and this event is unlikely to drag on for more than a generation or two.
    1. +1
      16 May 2021 14: 37
      it is still possible to become a Jew from a Jewish mother, and in no other way.
      Error, dear! Judaism is not a nationality, but a religion. You can become a Jew by going through the "conversion" ceremony.
    2. 0
      16 May 2021 21: 50
      As a true mishling I tell you. You can go to Judaism. There are rituals and customs according to which this is done. Another thing is that the Jews do not invite anyone to their place. This is a "select" club. Moreover, during the ritual of initiation into Judaism, you are offered to refuse 3 times like "They will look at you there, and they will not immediately accept you here." Halakha is one thing, a change of religion is another. Both paths lead to Judaism (if someone really needs it)
  32. +2
    16 May 2021 08: 48
    why did not the author cite the possibility that Russia would remain pagan?
    1. 0
      16 May 2021 21: 52
      The same as now only better. We would have gotten enemies from all sides, but we would not have destroyed our own culture and heritage. The Irish have converted their culture to Catholicism and the Russians have not. By the way, Japan remained Shinto and nothing. In 1905, she weighed out such people to the "God-fighter People" that didn’t seem enough. And no prayer services helped. Japan is still Shinto. Doesn't prevent them from being a technologically advanced power.
      1. 0
        16 May 2021 22: 30
        Quote: Baron Pardus
        Japan remained Shinto and nothing. In 1905, she weighed out such people to the "God-fighter People" that didn’t seem enough.

        Well, this is not a correct comparison, because how the Japs specifically prepared limes from the officer corps to the fleet itself
        but in general I wonder what would be real, do not change religion
  33. 0
    16 May 2021 08: 53
    in the map where Russia becomes Islamic, the author has a huge mistake, South America would definitely become as Islamic in this situation as it was in the zone of influence of Spain, and even with the northern one it would be very difficult
  34. 0
    16 May 2021 10: 31
    Orthodoxy is closer and more understandable, and the memory of ancestors still remains, so for me personally, Islamuikatolicizmunet, like other sects
  35. 0
    16 May 2021 15: 35
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    it is still possible to become a Jew from a Jewish mother, and in no other way.
    Error, dear! Judaism is not a nationality, but a religion. You can become a Jew by going through the "conversion" ceremony.

    And what, such a rite was ever massive, and even more compulsory? Or is it in the nature of exclusion, like the withdrawal from Judaism for one reason or another?
    My point is that it is not suitable as a tool for building empires, unlike Christianity and Islam.
  36. -1
    16 May 2021 16: 03
    Apparently Soros pays his sixes well for the fact that they spoil their HOMELAND.
    1. 0
      16 May 2021 17: 12
      Quote: Seeker
      Apparently Soros pays his sixes well for the fact that they spoil their HOMELAND.

      Soros cannot pay anyone on the territory of the Russian Federation. Since 2002, the foundation's activities have been terminated. I wrote to you about this last time. He offered to be vigilant. Even the telephone offered to give the appropriate authorities ... What, then they left for Klinsky?
  37. -2
    16 May 2021 20: 43
    Naphapal to Catholicism)
  38. +1
    16 May 2021 21: 43
    The greatest ERROR in the history of Russia. Why?
    And because Vladimir did it all for the sake of his lust and his Wishlist. Kings and Princes do not belong to themselves, and they simply do not have the right to Wishlist and lust. If you want someone, take it as a concubine. And to marry only for political reasons.
    He chose Orthodoxy (and Byzantium, which is clearly in decline and constant internal squabbling), Vladimir immediately got a bunch of problems.
    a) He opposed himself to the Islamic East ... He himself wrote down his country as "infidels". And received, historically, enemies in the east, and in the south, and in the southeast (Otoman Turkey)
    b) Opposed himself to the Catholic West. And historically he got ALL of Europe as an enemy. Simultaneously. (Beat schismatics, save Christianity).
    c) Received ANY union. Byzantium, by the way, was constantly at war with co-religionists, and they DIDN'T stop prying / crap against Russia.

    There is another interesting problem. If Russia became Catholic, that ugly monster called Protestantism would simply be crushed in the bud. Which in a certain way would have influenced the history of Europe. If you are told what "white and fluffy" Puritans and Protestants are - do not believe them. Suffice it to say that in COLONIES, Protestants committed atrocities and behaved like their ideological descendants - the Nazis are much more than Catholics. For example, when a native moved to CATHOLICITY, he / she became a full member of society. Even the conquistadors in Spain did not hesitate to take native women who converted to Catholicism as legal spouses. But the Protestants had exactly the opposite. By the way, the hands of the Africans were chopped off by the Protestant chocolate - the Belgians.

    Russia, having adopted Orthodoxy from Byzantium, which was beginning its decline, deprived itself of allies in the East, and allies in the West. She was left alone, and who are among the co-religionists? Bulgarians, Serbs ... they are still allies. I'm not saying that becoming Catholic Russia would not wage wars in the west. About the wars of the Catholics of the Poles and the Catholics of the Teutons has been rewritten. About the soldiers of the Catholics of the Spanish with the Catholics of the French, it is also written rewritten. Another thing is that the intensity of hatred would have been less. And so "Not only are you an enemy, you are also a schismatic."
    And about the alternative history of Catholic or Islamic Russia has been rewritten. It is also written about the enthusiasm with which the Muslims slaughtered each other ... But if Russia had just joined one of these camps, it would not have received irreconcilable enemies from BOTH sides and would not have found itself in a vice.

    About what would happen to Europe if Protestantism were destroyed (Calvinism is generally a nightmare flying on the wings of the night - your salvation is predetermined, therefore, do what you want, you cannot change anything).

    Would the Reform of Catholicism Begin? Yes, it would have begun, but the ugly mutations like Calvinists and Lutherans (the Inquisition is resting) would have been destroyed. I think in Russia there would be a "branch" of Catholicism, approximately like in Ireland, the mentality is remarkably similar. As in Ireland, Catholicism coexists with Shi, Leprechauns and other semi-pagan things, and the CELTIC culture PRESERVED (which cannot be said about the pre-Christian Slavic culture). I think it would be the same as in Ireland.

    By the way, I can say that in Catholicism, believers are not called "Slaves". And on all fours under all sorts of carpets, they are not forced to crawl. Well, and "for the temple" all the Gypsy money ...
    1. 0
      16 May 2021 22: 41
      Quote: Baron Pardus
      But if Russia had simply joined one of these camps, it would not have received irreconcilable enemies from BOTH sides and would not have found itself in a vice.

      by the way the same controversial issue
      Russia historically all one would create a third religion Russian Catholicism or Russian Islam
      but how would the Inquisition show itself in Russia ?!
      Quote: Baron Pardus
      By the way, I can say that in Catholicism, believers are not called "Slaves". And on all fours under all sorts of carpets, they are not forced to crawl.

      called sheep
      1. 0
        16 May 2021 23: 06
        The terms "Lost Sheep" (I was sent only to the LOST SHEEP of the House of Israel) and "Flock" (not Herd) and "Sheppard" are used in both Catholicism and Orthodoxy. By the way, the Catholics do not say "The Sheep of God and the Sheep of God are getting married." But Orthodoxy says "slave" and "slave". So the cart is not the right place. Learn the primary sources.

        Inquisition. Hardly, in Ireland, she, for example, was not particularly atrocious. And in Poland too. The Hussite wars, well, the Hussites were not completely Lutherans, or rather they were NOT Lutherans at all, and the Hussites themselves wiped out everyone at the expense of whom they could profit from. Those were still "white and fluffy". It was just a banal division of territory and dough. And she was not as bloodthirsty as described. To get to the fire, you had to try VERY hard. Most of the problems were received by those who fell into heresy again. Well, or those who "converted" to Catholicism continued to profess another faith (For example, Judaism, in Spain). Well Duc other religions are not better, what is the "religion of peace" doing with the apostates? In Poland, for example, the Inquisition did not commit atrocities either. And in the same Italy. Where did she commit atrocities? In France, in Germany, and then, he committed atrocities and when? In the era of the Renaissance, and not in the "dark ages". By the way, Catholic Russia would make Protestantism impossible, moreover, it would help crush it. There would be no 30-year war, and there would be no other problems.
        1. 0
          17 May 2021 08: 49
          Quote: Baron Pardus
          do not say "The Sheep of God and the Ram of God are married" Catholics

          what do they say?
          Quote: Baron Pardus
          Inquisition. Hardly, in Ireland, she, for example, did not particularly atrocities.
          not really how?
          Quote: Baron Pardus
          moreover, it would help crush him

          why?
  39. 0
    16 May 2021 23: 18
    When Prince Vladimir baptized the Russian Land in 988, all those beauties of Catholic churches presented by the author did not exist. All of them were built much later. The city of Rome in the 10th century was in great decline. There is a description of some places in Rome during the time of Otto III. The imperial palaces on the Palatine existed as colossal ruins and were still full of forgotten works of art. Some of their rooms even have precious wall decorations. The Palatine was not densely populated, and few churches were built on it. These are Santa Maria in Pallara at the site of the ancient palladium and Santa Lucia in Septa Solis near the ancient Septizonium. It is clear that Constantinople with its palaces, trade, temples, a population of hundreds of thousands of people, which is only St. Sophia, looked like a super civilization in comparison with Rome. At this time, there was still no division of the churches into Orthodox and Catholic, the church was one. In addition, there were long-standing trade and political ties with Byzantium, while communications and trade with Western Europe were extremely insignificant. Therefore, there is nothing surprising in the choice of Vladimir. In the 10th century, Byzantium offered much more than the papal throne; in essence, it had nothing to offer except to receive tithes for the religious support of the project.
  40. 0
    21 May 2021 16: 20
    Again, the word FAITH interferes with the concept of RELIGION. - There is no faith in such an idea! :)
  41. -2
    22 May 2021 01: 59
    It was necessary to show firmness and remain in paganism. Following the example of little prince Niklot, one can see how stubborn and successful opposition to someone else's religion can be. And Russia is larger than the encouraging state. The unifying role of Christianity? I do not believe. The disintegration of Russia showed that this is a myth. And vice versa, pagan Russia pounded the Khazars with a united front, and then pretty much even piled on the Romans. And if the departure from paganism is so fundamental, then it was possible to reach a very simple idea: unbelief unites in no way worse than faith. And go to atheism, abolishing unnecessary priesthood and hitting the secular science.
  42. +1
    26 May 2021 15: 20
    So just one decision of Prince Vladimir has changed the entire geopolitical alignment of balances and interests today. Has brought humanity to the brink of total nuclear war and complete destruction. If he knew that the consequences of his decision would be as follows, he probably would have acted differently ...


    The author does not understand a little that, just, the absence in the world of a "third force" in the person of Russia would have long ago led to the disappearance of civilization after the transformation of mankind into a gigantic concentration camp.
    Fortunately, those who want to arrange the world order in this way have been a dime a dozen at all times.
  43. 0
    28 May 2021 18: 03
    Both the article and most of the comments on the article suffer from earthly pragmatism. Meanwhile, faith is about the salvation of the soul in eternity, first of all, and not momentary earthly well-being. Unfortunately, both the author and the majority of commentators, in my opinion, are either of little faith or conscious atheists. They do not understand how the fierce prince of the Rus suddenly became meek and pious. And you will accept Orthodoxy. Believe sincerely, take Holy Communion, and then you will feel how your soul will change, rejoice, your eyes will look at the World in a completely different way, at the people around you. Yes, gradually this blissful feeling will subside, but a particle of it will remain in the soul. And perhaps this feeling, the Grace of God, will visit you more than once, if possible. sincerely confess, repent of your sins before the Lord and partake of the Holy Mysteries of Christ. Alas, this is not always the case.
    Christ is Risen!

"Right Sector" (banned in Russia), "Ukrainian Insurgent Army" (UPA) (banned in Russia), ISIS (banned in Russia), "Jabhat Fatah al-Sham" formerly "Jabhat al-Nusra" (banned in Russia) , Taliban (banned in Russia), Al-Qaeda (banned in Russia), Anti-Corruption Foundation (banned in Russia), Navalny Headquarters (banned in Russia), Facebook (banned in Russia), Instagram (banned in Russia), Meta (banned in Russia), Misanthropic Division (banned in Russia), Azov (banned in Russia), Muslim Brotherhood (banned in Russia), Aum Shinrikyo (banned in Russia), AUE (banned in Russia), UNA-UNSO (banned in Russia), Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar People (banned in Russia), Legion “Freedom of Russia” (armed formation, recognized as terrorist in the Russian Federation and banned)

“Non-profit organizations, unregistered public associations or individuals performing the functions of a foreign agent,” as well as media outlets performing the functions of a foreign agent: “Medusa”; "Voice of America"; "Realities"; "Present time"; "Radio Freedom"; Ponomarev; Savitskaya; Markelov; Kamalyagin; Apakhonchich; Makarevich; Dud; Gordon; Zhdanov; Medvedev; Fedorov; "Owl"; "Alliance of Doctors"; "RKK" "Levada Center"; "Memorial"; "Voice"; "Person and law"; "Rain"; "Mediazone"; "Deutsche Welle"; QMS "Caucasian Knot"; "Insider"; "New Newspaper"