Military Review

Mystery of the disaster of the motor ship "Armenia"

99
Mystery of the disaster of the motor ship "Armenia"
Soviet hospital ship "Armenia"


Motor ship "Armenia"


In the mid-1920s, shipbuilding, including civil shipbuilding, was actively restored in Soviet Russia. The design bureau of the Baltic Shipyard has developed a project for a motor ship of the "Adjara" type. In 1927-1928, six passenger ships were built, which were named after the Soviet republics: "Adjara", "Abkhazia", ​​"Armenia", "Ukraine", "Crimea" and "Georgia". Almost all the liners were built in Leningrad at the Baltic Shipyard (only the last two ships are in the German Kiel). The motor ships served on the Black Sea and served the lines between the ports of Ukraine, Crimea and the Caucasus. For their speed they were called "trotters".

"Armenia" was commissioned in 1928. It was a two-pipe motor ship with a displacement of 5770 tons, more than 107 meters long, 15,5 meters wide, capable of a speed of 14,5 knots. The crew is about 100 people, about 1000 passengers could be accommodated on board. Also, the ship could carry 1000 tons of cargo, that is, it was a universal cargo and passenger. "Armenia" was operated by the Black Sea Shipping Company and went on the line Odessa - Batumi - Odessa.


The bow of the "Armenia". Frame: video of the Center for Underwater Research of the Russian Geographical Society

Sanitary ship


With the beginning of the Great Patriotic War, the situation on the Black Sea required a change in the position of the "trotters". “Armenia” was transformed into an ambulance ship: the restaurants were transformed into operating rooms and dressing rooms, the smoking room into a pharmacy, and additional hanging bunks were installed in the cabins. In early August, the work on the ship was completed, and "Armenia" became part of the Black Sea fleet... Vladimir Plaushevsky became the ship's captain, Nikolay Zayunenko became the senior assistant, and Pyotr Dmitrievsky, the chief physician of the Odessa railway hospital, became the head of the medical personnel. The crew of the sanitary ship consisted of 96 people, as well as 9 doctors, 29 nurses and 75 orderlies.

During the defense of Odessa, the ship made 15 voyages and took over 16 thousand people from the city to the Caucasian coast. Day and night, medical personnel worked on board. Operations, dressings and blood. Many wounded. They took not only the wounded, but also refugees who were fleeing the war. The crew members accommodated people in their cabins.

Large crosses, clearly visible from the air, were painted on the sides and deck of the "Armenia" with bright red paint. On the mainmast was a white flag with the image of the International Red Cross. However, the Germans in the east practically did not comply with the articles of the Geneva and Hague Conventions. So, in July 1941, the Nazis damaged the sanitary ships "Kotovsky" and "Chekhov". Attacked by Luftwaffe aircraft, the Adjara liner, engulfed in fire, ran aground in full view of the whole of Odessa. In August the same fate befell the ship "Kuban". Therefore, 4 45-mm semi-automatic universal 21K cannons and 4 machine guns were installed on the "Armenia". Also, the ship was usually accompanied by a convoy.

Evacuation from Sevastopol


In the fall of 1941, confusion reigned in the Crimea. The defeated units of the Primorsky army of the Red Army went to Sevastopol, followed by the Nazis. Then no one knew that the city would hold on heroically for 250 days. Everything that was necessary and not necessary was hastily evacuated from Sevastopol. For example, hospitals in the city itself and equipped in adits were packed with wounded, but someone ordered the evacuation of the medical staff. They even wanted to take out the well-prepared and fortified command post of the fleet. Only the energetic actions of the newly arrived deputy for ground defense, Major General Petrov, put an end to the mess. Sevastopol turned into a real fortress, stubborn battles began on its outskirts.

"Armenia" on November 4, 1941 left Tuapse and arrived in Sevastopol. The liner stood in the inner roadstead and took on board the wounded and refugees. The situation was unsettling. At any moment, a German aviation... Most of the warships of the fleet, on the orders of Admiral Oktyabrsky, went to sea, including the cruiser Molotov, which had the only shipborne radar station in the fleet. In addition to “Armenia”, the transport “Bialystok” was loaded in the Quarantine Bay, and “Crimea” was loaded at the berth of the Marine Plant. The loading went on continuously day and night.

The wounded, medical and economic personnel of the Sevastopol Naval Hospital (the largest in the fleet), headed by its chief physician, 1st rank military doctor Semyon Kagan, were loaded onto the ship. Also on the ship were placed the 2nd naval and Nikolaev base hospitals, sanitary warehouse No. 280, sanitary and epidemiological laboratory, 5th medical and sanitary detachment, a hospital from the Yalta sanatorium. Part of the medical staff of the Primorsk and 51st armies, as well as civilians of Sevastopol, were accepted on the ship. According to various estimates, the ship eventually collected from 5 to 7-10 thousand people.

First, Captain Plausheusky received an order to go to sea on November 6 at 19 o'clock and go to Tuapse. A small sea hunter "041" of Senior Lieutenant Kulashov was assigned for escort. In the absence of a strong convoy, only night was a good defense for a large ship. By day, a large cargo-passenger liner, almost without air defense systems, escort ships and aircraft, was an excellent target for German bombers and torpedo bombers. The German Air Force at this time dominated the air. The first order gave the ship a good chance to leave the Crimea and reach Tuapse. Therefore, Captain Plaushevsky was outraged by the second order: to go to sea at 17 o'clock, in the daytime! Such an order could lead to the death of thousands of people.

Then two more fatal orders followed. With the first order, “Armenia” was instructed to enter Balaklava and pick up the NKVD officers, wounded and medical personnel there. Also, the ship received some kind of secret cargo. Now there is no data on what kind of cargo was loaded onto the ship in Balaklava. There is an opinion that they loaded museum valuables and paintings. According to another version - documents and gold. The ship stood in Balaklava for several hours. There were still chances to leave under cover of darkness.

However, Plaushevsky receives a new fatal order. Go to Yalta and pick up party workers, the NKVD and a few more hospitals. At 2 am on November 7, 1941, "Armenia" was in Yalta. The city was in chaos. There was no police, someone was smashing and robbing shops, warehouses and wine cellars. The NKVD fighters organized the landing. Here, the transport received several more walls of people and cargo. Loading went on until 7 o'clock in the morning.

Catastrophe


At 8 o'clock on November 7, the "Armenia" departed from the Yalta port in Tuapse, accompanied by one patrol boat. The sea was stormy, it was raining, which reduced the already small capabilities of the patrol to protect the transport. The fact that the transport was covered by two fighter planes, which allegedly "missed" the attack of an enemy plane, sometimes mentioned in stories about the event, is not supported by documents.

It is interesting that Admiral Oktyabrsky, knowing the operational situation and where the "Armenia" is located, gave instructions not to leave the ship from Yalta until 19:8, that is, until the evening. Plaushevsky received this order, but left Yalta. This is another secret of the death of the ship. It is possible that this was due to the fact that there were no air defense systems in Yalta, and the Germans were approaching the city (they captured Yalta on November XNUMX). That is, the Nazis would easily have destroyed "Armenia" in the port with the help of aviation or simply with field artillery. Therefore, the captain decided to risk going to sea. In inclement weather, the chances of leaving without loss increased.

According to the testimony of a sailor from Yakovlev's boat, a German reconnaissance officer appeared at about 10 o'clock. After a while, on low level flight, almost touching the water, two enemy torpedo bombers entered the area. One went in the direction of Yalta, the other attacked, but missed. The second torpedo bomber acted successfully. At 11:25 am “Armenia was attacked by Heinkel He 111. As a result of a direct hit from a torpedo (as previously thought) or two, a strong explosion occurred. The transport sank in a few minutes. A watchman in a rough sea was able to save only 6 or 8 people. It was about 30 km to the coast, the water was cold, so almost everyone died.

After the war, they tried to find "Armenia" more than once, but without success. They found ancient ships, ships that died in the course of two world wars, but not an ambulance ship. Only during a search operation conducted by the forces of the Russian Ministry of Defense in 2017, a magnetic anomaly was found at the bottom. In March 2020, at these coordinates, the wreckage of the "Armenia" was discovered by a deep-sea complex under the control of specialists from the Center for Underwater Research of the Russian Geographical Society. The vessel was located 18 miles offshore at a depth of 1500 meters.

No traces of the torpedo attack were found. However, the superstructures and upper decks were severely damaged. It is possible that "Armenia" was bombed. This confirms the version that the ship was attacked by 4 German planes, which bombed the middle part of the ship.


Rynda "Armenia". Frame: video of the Center for Underwater Research of the Russian Geographical Society
Author:
Photos used:
https://ru.wikipedia.org/
99 comments
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  1. Uncle lee
    Uncle lee 13 May 2021 05: 20
    +11
    Large crosses, clearly visible from the air, were painted on the sides and deck of the "Armenia" with bright red paint.
    And nevertheless, the Germans sank it .... not people!
    1. Finches
      Finches 13 May 2021 05: 48
      +12
      Civilized Europeans! This is a white man's burden ... Something has changed, no! Only fascism mimicked Western liberalism, and the Third Reich went to the European Union, but the essence remained the same - if a war happened today, some "civilized" Frenchman (and I'm not talking about the Anglo-Saxons at all) on Rafal would calmly drown our hospital ship, and then I went to rest on Montmartre without any remorse, and those who here in Russia think that this is not so, they are either very naive or very stupid people!
      1. not main
        not main 14 May 2021 01: 05
        +6
        Quote: Finches
        Civilized Europeans! This is a white man's burden ... Something has changed, no! Only fascism mimicked Western liberalism, and the Third Reich went to the European Union, but the essence remained the same - if a war happened today, some "civilized" Frenchman (and I'm not talking about the Anglo-Saxons at all) on Rafal would calmly drown our hospital ship, and then I went to rest on Montmartre without any remorse, and those who here in Russia think that this is not so, they are either very naive or very stupid people!

        I totally agree! But I have a question. And those 13 (at the moment), who put minuses, what were they guided by? Probably it was "if from Urengoy"!
      2. Tagil1
        Tagil1 16 May 2021 07: 53
        0
        You can talk whatever you want, but an armed ship is considered a military one. I am not defending the Germans, however. it is strange that such claims are not made, for example, to Marinesco.
        1. Finches
          Finches 16 May 2021 08: 33
          +2
          On its last voyage, the ship "Gustlov", you are hinting at it, left not as a hospital ship, but as a military transport, painted gray and equipped with anti-aircraft guns. This is the first thing. Secondly, "Gustlof" went without proper escort, without waiting for the escort ships. Thirdly, the Germans knew very well that this area was especially dangerous for ships. Therefore, who is to blame for the tragedy, then Hitler's Germany, not Marinesko! Marinesco carried out a brilliant military submarine operation, inflicting strategic damage on the Reich, and the pilot who sank the "Armenia", "splendidly" performed a mass and deliberate murder! Therefore, it is not necessary to disseminate the versions about Marinesco accepted in the liberal national-treacherous environment - and so we have already agreed to the point!
          1. Tagil1
            Tagil1 16 May 2021 11: 56
            +3
            Stop talking nonsense, attributing your inventions to me! You can paint anything, even fences. But if the ship has weapons, it is considered military. Thus, the sinking of "Gustlov" and the sinking of "Armenia" are not war crimes. So that you do not invent there
            1. Finches
              Finches 16 May 2021 12: 09
              0
              The fact of the matter is that you are inventing, only you are here, willingly or unwittingly, playing along with the enemies of Russia, but let it remain on your conscience, I personally do not care. I'm used to hearing from your liberal brother that white is black ...
    2. antivirus
      antivirus 13 May 2021 07: 28
      +14
      28.3.17.
       antivirus 2 Today, 19:36 ↑ 
      On the issue of starched shirts and honor.
      Yakov Mikhailovich Glazunov, captain of the Volga Shipping Company, father-in-law of my friend, born in 1928.
      “They call him, in the summer, to the shipping company’s department, to Gorky (perhaps Kuibyshev?), They say:
      - "go to Stalingrad, everyone who can be evacuated there"
      Loaded at the pier. A raid began, they were quickly kicked out of the pier.
      He went along the shore.
      - "If you get, then swim to the shore, and others who survive"
      And the second ship went in the middle and drowned,
      children injured.
      They laid out white sheets with red crosses on the deck.
      "The fascist threw, threw, but missed. I kept dodging, and left."
      "Every time I spoke with a cry"
    3. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 13 May 2021 07: 44
      +1
      Quote: Uncle Lee
      And nevertheless, the Germans sank it .... not people!

      Just Germans.
      1. Uncle lee
        Uncle lee 13 May 2021 08: 13
        +1
        Vlad hi Judging by the cons of the Nazis, I welcome the death of "Armenia" with the wounded and children ....
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 13 May 2021 09: 05
          +9
          Quote: Uncle Lee
          Vlad Judging by the minuses of the Natsik, I welcome the death of "Armenia" with the wounded and children ....

          That is why they are Natsik, it is not the first time for them to kill children, which they are doing in the Lao PDR now.
        2. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 13 May 2021 09: 53
          +9
          Quote: Uncle Lee
          ..... Judging by the minuses of the Natsik, I welcome the death of "Armenia" with the wounded and children ....
          hi yes, Vladimir! When ambulance trains of the wounded and children were taken out, the Germans also tried to destroy them along with the people.
          And what are the cons? In this case, it is good that we know about this liberation. We know that they are not somewhere far away, among the artists with low social status, they are --- close by.
          1. Uncle lee
            Uncle lee 13 May 2021 10: 02
            +9
            Dima hi The pros and cons, like a litmus, show the attitude of those present to a particular article or comment. And you can immediately see the whites and the red, ours and the Germans, enemies and friends ...
            1. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 13 May 2021 10: 12
              +2
              ..... like litmus, show attitude .......
              now if they wrote something --- it would be better, because all this should be seen and discussed. But they do not want discussion, they know that they are flawed negative
              1. Uncle lee
                Uncle lee 13 May 2021 10: 16
                +4
                Quote: Reptiloid

                now if they wrote something
                They will not write, show their wretchedness ... Minuses are more familiar - it is not visible who did the "nice" to the neighbor!
                1. The comment was deleted.
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                2. Reptiloid
                  Reptiloid 13 May 2021 13: 32
                  +2
                  Vladimir! I have again a poem about dead enemies. On behalf of the German. This is how I represent their thoughts by their deeds
                  THEY WENT TO EAST-3
                  After all, I am not a man! We are wolves, wolf pack.
                  We worshiped Fenrir, glorifying the Aryans!
                  We knew Plan Ost was the best plan!
                  For Russians, it's a churchyard! After all, we have --- talismans!

                  We blew up the Russians, both in pillboxes and in tanks.
                  We burned them and burned them, destroying the remains.
                  We in Belarus, in the forests, defended the Germans,
                  We instilled fear in the inhabitants, they killed us.

                  The young and old, both adults and children, resisted.
                  We burned, and the stench rose. They are responsible for everything.
                  How we dreamed of conquering Soviet Belarusians!
                  But I died in battle long ago. I didn't give up. I was not a coward.

                  He lay and waited: will the bayonets be pierced? Or maybe they won't notice ???
                  They came. Bolsheviks. They are responsible for everything.

                  I understand everything in death: Odin did not save us,
                  I didn’t take Valhalla to my place on the way.
                  The winged Valkyries did not notice us ---
                  After all, the joy of eternal battle is just a beautiful tale.
                  Their tender palms did not caress us at all,
                  But the crows flew together and pecked at my eyes.
                  1. Uncle lee
                    Uncle lee 13 May 2021 13: 51
                    +2
                    Vladimir Vysotsky
                    Soldiers of the "Center" group

                    The soldier is always healthy
                    The soldier is ready for anything
                    And dust, like carpets,
                    We knock out of the roads.

                    And don't stop,
                    And don't change legs
                    Our faces are shining
                    The shoes sparkle!

                    On the scorched plain -
                    Behind the meter meter -
                    Go to Ukraine
                    Soldiers of the "Center" group.

                    - Pay for the "first-second"!
                    - First second…
                    First, step forward - and to heaven!
                    - First second…
                    And every second is also a hero -
                    Go to heaven will follow you.
                    - First second.
                    First second.
                    First second…

                    And everything is blooming in front of us -
                    Everything is burning behind us.
                    Don't think! - the one with us
                    Who decides everything for us.

                    Funny - not gloomy -
                    Let's go home
                    Brides are blond
                    The reward will be us!

                    Everything is ahead, and now
                    Meter meter
                    Go to Ukraine
                    Soldiers of the "Center" group.

                    - Pay for the "first-second"!
                    - First second…
                    First, step forward - and to heaven!
                    - First second…
                    And every second is also a hero -
                    Go to heaven will follow you.
                    - First second.
                    First second.
                    First second…

                    November 1965, XNUMX
                    And I remember it ...
                    1. Reptiloid
                      Reptiloid 13 May 2021 14: 33
                      +3
                      Yes, I read it, Vysotsky wrote this for the play. And I am enraged by all sorts of those calling for sorrow. On Victory Day
                      But one of our contemporary wrote a verse about humanity towards the Germans. And there are those who like Mikhail Shakhnazarov about this.
                      Meanwhile, the Germans did not deny their crimes, but they did not repent, and did not say, forgive us, Russians. True, Brand asked the Jews for forgiveness ...
                      Yes evenings, I'm running away
                    2. Aviator_
                      Aviator_ 13 May 2021 20: 38
                      +4
                      Vysotsky's poems, of course, are good. Only there was no "Center" group in Ukraine, it was in Belarus. And in Ukraine there was a group "South", but then there is no rhyme. Only once saw Vysotsky on stage - at the premiere of "Crime and Punishment", made a strong impression, played Svidrigailov. Very powerful, in films he also has many winning roles, but there is no comparison with the theater. This is a must see.
    4. Crimea26
      Crimea26 14 May 2021 09: 32
      0
      This never stopped the Germans.
  2. SERGE ANT
    SERGE ANT 13 May 2021 05: 30
    +16
    At 8 a.m. the transport went out to sea, and a single German bomber appeared about two and a half hours later. He returned to the airfield in Romania without completely dropping his deadly cargo. From a special message addressed to the head of the 3rd department of the Black Sea Fleet Kudryavtsev:
    "At 10-40, due to clouds, at a low altitude on the course of the ship, an enemy aircraft Ju-88 was found, which dropped bombs into the bow of the ship. In 5-6 minutes the m / v" Armenia "sank. late, that is, after he dropped bombs on the ship, so the attack of the fighters was ineffectual and the enemy plane left with impunity. The check established that the flight of the I-153 fighters had a number of shortcomings. The aircraft of Junior Lieutenant Stepanov did not work 3 machine guns, the radio did not work, there was no map. Flight commander Leith. Feoktistov, in adverse weather conditions, tactically incorrectly accompanied the transport, moved far away from it, did not take into account the fact that the enemy aircraft suddenly bombed out of the clouds. "
    Declassified documents finally put an end to the long discussion about how many people were carried away to a depth of one and a half kilometers by "Armenia". From the report of the authorized transport department of the NKVD of Crimea Pitomts, who served the port of Yalta: "On 7 / XI-1941, the motor ship" Armenia "was personnel from Sevastopol - 700 wounded, from Yalta 1500-1700 wounded. Evacuated party and Soviet activists from Simferopol, Alushta and Yalta about 2000 hours. "
    In other reports and reports, the score was different. There were only 1500 wounded, 30 employees of the Yalta naval hospital, 383 medics from Sevastopol, and about 3 thousand civilians. Only 4,5-5 thousand ... The military prosecutor's office compiled a list of those responsible for the tragedy. The report on the death of "Armenia" addressed to the commander of the Black Sea Fleet, Vice-Admiral Oktyabrsky, is decorated with his resolution: "This is a difficult case, but there is nothing to judge representative people for, wrong ... "
  3. kig
    kig 13 May 2021 05: 37
    +10
    Well, where is the secret? A passenger ship, albeit with red crosses, without security and escort, in the conditions of the domination of German aviation ... Sadly, but the result is natural.
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 13 May 2021 06: 16
      +8
      After such a tragedy and subsequent other similar tragedies in the Baltic Sea, the Germans should not make claims to Marinesco ... a natural result.
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 13 May 2021 07: 47
        +8
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        After such a tragedy and subsequent other similar tragedies in the Baltic Sea, the Germans should not make claims to Marinesco ... a natural result.

        Marinesco did what was needed, destroyed the enemy with their own method. The Germans taught us a lot.
    2. SERGE ANT
      SERGE ANT 13 May 2021 06: 53
      +12
      Quote: kig
      without security and escort

      To be precise, in fairness to, in the Journal of Combat Operations of the Air Force and Air Defense of the Black Sea Fleet, it is recorded that on the morning of November 7, 1941, the hospital ship "Armenia" left Yalta accompanied by two I-153 aircraft (flight commander Leit. Feoktistov), ​​also a motor ship accompanied by two patrol boats. At that moment there was only one boat of the convoy numbered 0122 not far from the ship. But those on board did not see the moment of the attack. They only identified the Ju-88 on the plane, which could be both a bomber and a torpedo bomber. And in the combat log they entered that torpedoes were fired at the "Armenia", this is what the observers from the boat saw: "When it sank, boats were dropped from the m / v" Armenia ". 0122 people. Captain 6st rank Burmistrov, being on SKA, ordered to follow to Balaklava ". Regarding the second boat, there is a mention in the journal of the Black Sea Fleet operational duty headquarters:" I left for Sevastopol, having an order. "
      1. bubalik
        bubalik 13 May 2021 10: 43
        +4
        which could be both a bomber and a torpedo bomber

      2. kig
        kig 13 May 2021 14: 11
        +4
        How is the article titled? The mystery of the disaster. And whatever one may say, there is nothing mysterious about the death of Armenia. A series of accidents, confusion, panic, bungling. Only grief remained.
      3. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 May 2021 14: 45
        +2
        Quote: SERGE ant
        that on the morning of November 7, 1941, the hospital ship "Armenia"


        Transportrather than a hospital ship.
    3. Avior
      Avior 13 May 2021 06: 59
      +12
      In general, Armenia was walking with security and escort.
      In addition, she was armed with guns
      1. Konnick
        Konnick 13 May 2021 08: 37
        +5
        Again, no article, again the case when comments are more interesting, especially those accompanied by documents. And then the author has a strange relation to the NKVD ... it was they who were "first" evacuated. And on November 10, a consolidated regiment was formed from the "evacuees". Accents, oh, those accents. Rewrite the wikipedia article, add some gags and voila.
      2. Alex013
        Alex013 13 May 2021 15: 36
        +3
        It would have been a hospital ship, the Germans would have drowned all the same. No red crosses would have helped. On September 19, 43, the British hospital ship Newfauland was launched with a guided bomb. True, along with the destroyer.
  4. Olgovich
    Olgovich 13 May 2021 06: 38
    +14
    the author does not write that, according to the conventions, a ship with weapons, and even with an escort, cannot be considered a hospital ship. The same liner "Wilhelm Gustloff", destroyed by Marinesco, also carried guns.

    The culprit of the death is the mess that reigned in the Crimea, when they tried to cover the volume by evacuation that could not be covered in principle.

    The unplanned loading at Balaklava was fatal.

    A terrible tragedy.

    I had to read the POST-war memories of people about the grief and despair they experienced, NOT getting on board Armenia that night in the port of Yalta, even though they stood in a huge crowd on the pier, saw it and tried to board it ...
    1. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins 13 May 2021 06: 50
      +4
      This is not the first article on VO about the tragedy with "Armenia". But, I agree with you - the author mentioned the Geneva convention, color, flag, but did not begin to explain that the presence of weapons on the ship negates all these factors.
      I am not making excuses for Luftwaffe pilots. They have many such "feats". I am now - specifically about "Armenia".
    2. Avior
      Avior 13 May 2021 06: 57
      0
      There were no guns on Gustlov, but in any case he was not a hospital ship, even the coloring was not appropriate. The guns were in Armenia, although they were painted.
      1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 May 2021 07: 30
        +1
        Quote: Avior
        although the coloring was.

        This is not a fact.
        1. Avior
          Avior 13 May 2021 07: 43
          0
          Yes, I've heard that
          1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 May 2021 07: 58
            +6
            Quote: Avior
            Yes, I've heard that

            "Hearing" is not a fact. The RGAVMF has an order to install guns on Armenia:
            "On the boat deck in the area of ​​the 156-157 frame, two 21-K type guns are installed, side by side at a distance of 1.150 mm from the side. One gun is mounted on a drum on the deck of the lower bridge in the area of ​​the 124-125 frame in the center plane. Reinforcements for" Armenia " are made according to drawing No. 3. The artillery cellars are designed for 1.420 shells (plus three fenders for the first shots for 180 shells, 60 shells for each gun) in the officers' bath and office located on the boat deck.

            (case No. 1431)
            There are no orders to paint and mark the hospital ship on the ship.
            Armenia is listed as a "sanitary transport" only in order 00162 of August 8, 1941 "On the enrollment of the sanitary transports" Armenia "and" Abkhazia "in the Black Sea Fleet. In other cases - a motor ship and transport. Armenia, due to the prevailing difficult situation, was more often used as military and evacuation transport, and not a hospital.For example, in mid-October from the besieged Odessa to Sevastopol motor vessel "Armenia" evacuated:
            "Shipping Name - 5.000 in / people wounded 72 h., guns 28 pcs., trailers 24 pcs., cars 5 pcs., zenith. installations 3 pcs., diff. cargo 165 t ".

            (Case No. 1147, RGAVMF)
            Like Gustloff, Armenia was formally a legitimate target.
            1. Avior
              Avior 13 May 2021 08: 20
              +4
              Armenia, in any case, was not a sanitary ship within the framework of the Hague Convention, there is a whole list of requirements - to declare the name to the enemy, to transport only the wounded and sick, not to transport military cargo and military, to go alone, to provide assistance to all parties, not to have weapons, to have coloring appropriate
              In fact, most of the requirements were not met.
              1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 May 2021 08: 39
                +2
                Quote: Avior
                Armenia in any case was not a sanitary ship within the framework of the Hague Convention

                quite right. The main emotional argument is that it allegedly bore a "sanitary" coloration. But he doesn't have no documentary evidence. An ingrained stamp cannot be considered a fact until it is confirmed. In the meantime, the fact is that Armenia was an armed transport, which was also used to transport evacuated civilians and wounded. The archives of the Luftwaffe could have shed some light, but, as far as I know, they were burned by the Allies in Dresden. The attack itself was also overgrown with a bunch of vague versions. One by one - a torpedo with a He-111. I personally doubt very much that the pilot of a torpedo bomber would have dared to attack in a sea state of 6 points. After the first surveys of Armenia at the bottom, by the nature of the destruction, they came to the conclusion that a torpedo attack was unlikely. The version with supposedly flown things is ridiculous. Topmast driver?
                1. Avior
                  Avior 13 May 2021 09: 23
                  0
                  This is actually a problem.
                  After the transportation of military cargo and troops by Armenia, the presence of weapons on board has been documented, writing about the sanitary painting means admitting that military transportation was covered with sanitary symbols, which does not look very good for obvious reasons.
                  And the question arises, from what source is it generally known that there was a hospital coloring? Nikulin, for example, does not write this.
                  Are there any photos of Armenia during the war?
                  In modern descriptions, the hospital coloring has already disappeared, only the red cross on board is mentioned.
                  somehow
                  In the hope of preventing possible attacks from the air, a distinctive sign of a hospital ship - a huge red cross - was placed on board the "Armenia".

                  again, without any reference to the source.
                  1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 May 2021 10: 56
                    0
                    In the end, what is the difference - it was painted, it was not. Look, the Italians had 12 nave ospidale - all in rank - unarmed, snow-white, illuminated, registered with the Red Cross, with a green stripe along the overhead lines, three crosses on the sides and a cross on the pipes - so what? Has it stopped the allies? Yes, hell there. Even, damn it, a Greek (!) Submarine (and very few people here heard about the submarine fleet of Greece during WWII, I suppose) tried to torpedo the Italian hospital "Sicily". She missed, however, with all four torpedoes. However, Sicily was then bombed in Naples.
                    1. Avior
                      Avior 13 May 2021 11: 06
                      +1
                      The Greeks missed.
                      1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 May 2021 12: 03
                        0
                        Quote: Avior
                        The Greeks missed.

                        But Queenfish did not miss the hospital Ava-Mar near Formosa in April 45. Although (sic!) Was warned about the time and route of the passage of the Japanese HS. Here is Lockwood's radiogram (under the command of TO):
                        “Ensure safe passage for the Awa-maru carrying cargo for prisoners of war. The ship will pass through your area from March 30 to April 4. The ship is lit at night and marked with white crosses. "

                        The submarine commander was put on trial, but of all the charges, only "negligence" was left and removed from command. The Japanese, by the way, have not been able to cut the compensation of 50 million "dead presidents" from the Yankees.
                      2. Avior
                        Avior 14 May 2021 00: 11
                        0
                        the Americans pleaded guilty to negligence, but the issue in this case was controversial.
                        Locklin, in his report, explained the reasons for the erroneous identification of the vessel by poor visibility due to heavy fog and high speed of transport. In addition, the submarine's liaison officer for unknown reasons did not provide the commander with the full text of the radio message about the Awa-maru passage. ... Captain Locklin was removed from command and his case was referred to a military tribunal, which dropped charges of dereliction of duty and disobedience from him, but found him guilty of negligence. Locklin was reprimanded and removed from command of the submarine.

                        At the exact moment when the ship was attacked, it had already unloaded cargo for prisoners of war, accepted a cargo of military materials and went to Japan with it, which was not provided for by the agreement, about which the captain provided evidence. Nevertheless, the court said that it did not matter, and the contract was valid anyway.
                        After the delivery of humanitarian supplies, "Awa-maru" with a cargo of tin, lead and rubber received in Singapore and Saigon, returned to Japan. In addition to cargo, 36 women and 14 children were taken on board in Saigon and 1840 people in Singapore (sailors, engineers and officers of the merchant fleet from sunken Japanese ships).

                        the telegrams concerned humanitarian cargo, which had already been unloaded by that time.
                        there is also other information. Along with the humanitarian cargo, the Japanese were quietly carrying military cargo - airplanes and so on.
                        February 25, 1945. The Awa Maru has arrived in Saigon. Here, 23 boxes with planes, 2000 aerial bombs and 500 tons of various ammunition were unloaded from the holds and from the deck of the Red Cross vessel.


                        Nevertheless, the Americans offered the Japanese a similar vessel in exchange, but the Japanese refused.
                        and later they refused from compensation - after the war, the Americans actively supplied the Japanese with assistance without that.
              2. bubalik
                bubalik 13 May 2021 12: 59
                +1
                One by one - a torpedo with a He-111. I personally doubt very much that the pilot of a torpedo bomber would have dared to attack in a sea state of 6 points.
                ,,, it is strange that there are no docks on the German side about this attack of the ship. request So who drowned? what
                1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                  Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 May 2021 13: 58
                  +1
                  Quote: bubalik
                  So who drowned?

                  request
    3. Olgovich
      Olgovich 13 May 2021 09: 12
      +4
      Quote: Avior
      There were no guns on Gustlov, but he was not a hospital ship anyway,

      there were guns on Gustloff, incl. Air defense. In addition, it was officially the floating base of the German submarine fleet.

      An absolutely military ship.
      1. Avior
        Avior 13 May 2021 09: 40
        +2
        Yes, you are right, the anti-aircraft guns were

        3 × 105 mm (4.1 in) anti-aircraft guns
        8 × 20 mm (0.79 in) anti-aircraft cannons [2]

        But in any case, no one considered Gustlov and does not consider him a hospital ship.
    4. Revolver
      Revolver 13 May 2021 10: 10
      +3
      Quote: Avior
      There were no guns on Gustlov

      And according to Wikipedia
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Wilhelm_Gustloff#Operation_Hannibal_%E2%80%93_evacuation
      then the anti-aircraft guns were on it. True, it is not said how many and which ones, but if at least one of them was 88, then with a successful hit it was quite capable of sinking a submarine. And he was escorted by the destroyer Löwe. So Gustloff was a legitimate target.
      1. Revolver
        Revolver 13 May 2021 10: 18
        +2
        Sorry, I did not read it carefully. At the same address, but from the side
        Armament:
        3 × 105 mm (4.1 in) anti-aircraft guns
        8 × 20 mm (0.79 in) anti-aircraft cannons
        105 could not only kill a submarine, but on occasion, and kill something larger, up to the EM. It pierced through all heavy tanks that existed at that time. So the goal was quite legitimate.
      2. Avior
        Avior 13 May 2021 10: 22
        +2
        Gustloff was a legitimate target.

        I have never argued otherwise.
        on the English wikipedia page there is data on weapons, they are written on the right, I gave them above
        3 piles. They are capable of sinking the boat. especially since the C-13 was on the surface
    5. Operator
      Operator 13 May 2021 14: 35
      +1
      No need to drive misinformation - there were anti-aircraft guns on Gustlov: three 105-mm and 8 20-mm.
  5. SERGE ANT
    SERGE ANT 13 May 2021 07: 09
    +8
    Quote: Olgovich
    NOT getting on board Armenia that night in the port of Yalta, even though they stood in a huge crowd on the pier, saw her and tried to board her ...

    In Yalta, at the pier, "civilians" were already sitting on their suitcases. The headquarters of the Black Sea Fleet already knew that there was no enemy in Yalta, the captain of the "Armenia" Vladimir Plaushevsky received an order: "Go to Yalta to receive the wounded. Then go to Tuapse." Special instruction: if you cannot meet the release date, postpone it until seven in the evening, until dark. "Do not endanger the ship," - this is how, in a completely unofficial manner, the order ended. It was not possible to leave on time, the "Armenia" arrived in Yalta in the middle of the night. We started to load before dawn, finished by 8 o'clock. There were not enough cars, the hospitals themselves were scattered throughout the city. On one ladder they brought in the recumbent and led those who could move on their own. On the second, as reported in the report by State Security Lieutenant Gubka, "in the process of loading the wounded, there was a loading of citizens evacuated from Simferopol and Yalta, mostly sick from the Soviet party activists and their families." E.S. Nikulin, the man who did not get on the ship, recalled his arrival:
    “In the evening we did not know anything about the motor ship“ Armenia ”yet. At night, at two o'clock, we were awakened and led almost in formation down the middle of the street to the port. There was a huge motor ship in the port. The entire pier and pier are filled with people. We joined this crowd. Boarding the ship proceeded slowly; in two hours we moved from the pier to the pier. The crush is incredible! Loading lasted from about two o'clock until seven in the morning. NKVD fighters with rifles stood across the pier and only women with children were allowed to pass. Sometimes men broke through the cordon. "
    1. Captain45
      Captain45 13 May 2021 10: 26
      +4
      Quote: SERGE ant
      E.S. Nikulin, the man who did not get on the ship, recalled his arrival:

      And here is what IZ Vergasov, appointed at the indicated time and subsequently chief of staff of the partisan detachments of the Yalta region, tells about this in his book "Crimean Notebooks":
      “Crowds of the wounded, doctors, nurses and nurses are piling up on the berths. They are waiting for“ Armenia ”, the ship is about to appear.
      The Nazis are nearby, they have already occupied Alushta ...
      We spent the night in the regional department of the NKVD and at dawn moved into the forest.
      "Armenia" was still loaded. ....
      Suddenly the sun broke through the thick of clouds and began to fall in spots on the plateau. .... And the distance of the sea was opened.
      We all saw "Armenia" at the same time. The motor ship went east, leaving behind a diverging foam trail. Two tiny patrol boats accompanied the ship. This is the last transport from the abandoned city, on it there are eleven hospitals, Soviet and party activists of Big Yalta, doctors, many partisan families.
      If only dive bombers didn't appear!
      And suddenly a cry:
      - They're coming !!!
      They, bastards, walked with a crash, howl, swept over our heads in two or three hundred meters. We saw the faces of the pilots.
      The bombers instantly appeared over the ship, lined up, and an unpunished merry-go-round began.
      Anti-aircraft machine guns hit from the patrolmen, but can you beat the butt with a whip?
      The Nazis dived as if in an exercise.
      The motor ship broke in half and disappeared literally in a matter of seconds. .....
      The watchmen plow the water forlornly, but apparently there is no one to pick up. "(C)
      Considering the fact that Vergasov was a military fighter pilot before these events, it is obvious that he evaluated the picture of what was happening in the air and the types of aircraft professionally.
      1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 May 2021 11: 12
        +5
        Quote: Captain45
        Suddenly the sun broke through the thick of clouds and began to fall in spots on the plateau. .... And the distance of the sea was opened.
        We all saw "Armenia" at the same time. The motor ship went east, leaving behind a diverging foam trail.

        The partisan has good eyesight ... 15 miles ... And the weather report facilitates observation: "strong northeastern wind 6–7 points, waves up to 6 points, cloud base 500 meters, cloud density 2–3 points."
        Quote: Captain45
        Considering the fact that Vergasov was a military fighter pilot before these events, it is obvious that he evaluated the picture of what was happening in the air and the types of aircraft professionally.

        Yes Yes....
      2. Serg koma
        Serg koma 13 May 2021 19: 17
        +2
        Quote: Captain45
        Vergasov before these events was a military fighter pilot

        Please share a source of information about the "fighter".
        graduated from military school and served in the Air Force.
        For health reasons, Vergasov left the army and worked as a senior mechanic at the state farm "Gurzuf" (Crimea).
  6. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 May 2021 08: 46
    +3
    Quote: Olgovich
    The unplanned loading at Balaklava was fatal.

    How is it known that Armenia entered or loaded in Balaklava? This is not in the archives. In general, could Armenia enter the inner roadstead of the Balaklava Bay, given its size and in those conditions?
    1. Konnick
      Konnick 13 May 2021 09: 21
      +3
      How is it known that Armenia entered or loaded in Balaklava? This is not in the archives. In general, could Armenia enter the inner roadstead of the Balaklava Bay, given its size and in those conditions?

      Even if I stopped at the roadstead near Balaklava, it is simply physically impossible to transfer cargo or passengers with six-point excitement.
    2. Olgovich
      Olgovich 13 May 2021 09: 43
      0
      Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      How is it known that Armenia entered or loaded in Balaklava? This is not in the archives.

      wanders from article to article, yes. recourse
      Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      ... In general, could Armenia enter the inner roadstead of the Balaklava Bay, given its size and in those conditions?

      It is about external raid.

      The most recent information about Armenia is from Crimea, from April this year and is based on recently declassified documents (: https: //crimea.ria.ru/society/20210409/1119446040/Tayna-gibeli-Armenii-Sluchay-tyazhelyy-no-sudit-ne-za-chto.html)

      And the picture is somewhat different:

      1. Armenia walked initially to Yalta for the wounded, not to Sevastopol.
      2. On November 5, at sea, I received a light signal from a boat about ... the capture of Yalta and went to Sevastopol, where she loaded (where no one was waiting for her and the loading was very delayed) and, after finding out about the non-capture of Yalta, went there again.
      3. There is no mention of Balaklava.
      4. Departure from Yalta in the morning was agreed by the headquarters.
      5. There is an NKVD document about 4200 people on board.

      complete confusion in everything - the cause of the tragedy ...
      1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 May 2021 14: 07
        +3
        Quote: Olgovich
        wanders from article to article, yes.

        So many lies have been heaped up around the tragedy of Armenia. Up to some memoirs, in which "with his own eyes" (!) From the shore (!) A certain partisan "saw" (!), How, they say, "pieces" tore apart a steamer.
      2. Serg koma
        Serg koma 13 May 2021 19: 23
        +1
        Quote: Olgovich
        3. There is no mention of Balaklava.

        the ship received some secret cargo. Now no data on what cargo was loaded on a ship in Balaklava.
        - one "secret" has been declassified.
  • north 2
    north 2 13 May 2021 07: 10
    +4
    I did not find anything secret in the article. The ambulance ship would have been attacked by the Nazis in any case, because such are the methods of fascism and Nazism. If they burned whole villages of old men, children and women alive, and did not even take the wounded Red Army soldiers prisoner, they shot them on the spot, then it would be naive to hope that they would do differently with the sanitary ship. And so it happened, he was attacked and sunk with wounded and evacuated people ... And what's the secret if the author writes that there is no reliable data on the cargo of gold or museum relics on board the ship. And how could the fascists regret the museums in the USSR. Bombed and burned with all the paintings and exhibitions there. And the fascists' thirst to kill Soviet people was stronger than the instinct of a European thief to be enriched with Russian gold and other riches of Russia, for which Hitler's predecessors in the person of the Turkish, Swedish, Polish, French armies in Russia and before Hitler more than once made invasions with war ...
    1. Timofey Charuta
      Timofey Charuta 13 May 2021 10: 44
      +1
      In fact, the continuation of the old dispute - what if Stalin signed the convention on prisoners of war, what would it be?
      For some reason, it seems that everything was the same. The Fritzes themselves admitted that the war of annihilation - what are the red crosses and the Geneva conventions?

      They fiddled with the Anglo-Saxons in captivity because they did not give up hope in spite of everything to come to an agreement and hit the hated USSR at once on all of them.

      According to the documents, it follows that the Nazis simply exterminated the captured, wounded, crippled Red Army soldiers - extra mouths, no benefit. Were you making soap from the prisoners because the convention wasn’t signed?

      So draw red crosses - do not draw - the ending was always the same ...
      1. north 2
        north 2 13 May 2021 11: 10
        +2
        Quote: Timofey Charuta
        In fact, the continuation of the old dispute - what if Stalin signed the convention on prisoners of war, what would it be?
        For some reason, it seems that everything was the same. The Fritzes themselves admitted that the war of annihilation - what are the red crosses and the Geneva conventions?

        They fiddled with the Anglo-Saxons in captivity because they did not give up hope in spite of everything to come to an agreement and hit the hated USSR at once on all of them.

        According to the documents, it follows that the Nazis simply exterminated the captured, wounded, crippled Red Army soldiers - extra mouths, no benefit. Were you making soap from the prisoners because the convention wasn’t signed?

        So draw red crosses - do not draw - the ending was always the same ...

        parallels should be drawn not between the Geneva Convention and the fascists, but between Babi Yar, Khatyn, Dachau, Auschwitz and the fascists. It is the theory of fascism that is perpinlicular to the Geneva Convention and parallel to Babi Yar, Khatyn, Dachau, Auschwitz, etc. What if Stalin had signed the Geneva Convention, then the fascists would not have created Dachau or Auschwitz?
        And how to look at the fact that in Dachau and in Auschwitz a lot of civilians were killed from countries whose leaders were signatories to the Geneva Convention ...
        1. Serg koma
          Serg koma 13 May 2021 19: 43
          +3
          Quote: north 2
          signatories to the Geneva Convention

          Germany signed the convention, therefore it was obliged to observe it in relation to all citizens of other states falling under the definition of "prisoner of war". A country that has not signed this document is not obliged to follow the paragraphs of the document. The Reich completely violated the Geneva Convention in relation to the prisoners of war of the USSR - this is a fact, and throwing stones (in no case about you) at Stalin for "not signing" is de jure not lawful.
          1. Aviator_
            Aviator_ 13 May 2021 20: 53
            +2
            About that Geneva Convention (1929) https://sibadvokat.ru/magazine/zhenevskaya-konventsiya-i-politika-tretego-reyha-po-unichtozheniyu-sovetskih-voennoplennyih
            It really was not signed, but in 1931, by Decree of the Central Executive Committee and the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR No. 46, the Provision on Prisoners of War was approved, which actually duplicated the Geneva Convention, minus the provisions ideologically alien to the USSR. The discrepancy with the Geneva Convention was only in significantly different conditions of detention of soldiers and officers, which was prescribed by an international document and rejected by the USSR.
      2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 May 2021 11: 49
        +2
        Quote: Timofey Charuta
        In fact, the continuation of the old dispute - what if Stalin signed the convention on prisoners of war, what would it be?

        What does the convention and Stalin have to do with it ??
        Armed vehicles with an escort and even air cover are a legitimate target.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Constanty
    Constanty 13 May 2021 08: 44
    +3
    Large crosses, clearly visible from the air, were painted on the sides and deck of the "Armenia" with bright red paint. On the mainmast was a white flag with the image of the International Red Cross. However, the Germans in the east practically did not comply with the articles of the Geneva and Hague Conventions.


    I repeat that I wrote about the article about Gustloff.

    However, it should be emphasized that in 1945 "Wilhelm Gustloff", "Steuben" and "Goya" were not included in the above category of hospital ship. They didn't wear the colors of hospital ships were not communicated to the other side as such, and most importantly - did not refrain from participating in hostilities! The evacuation of military personnel, arming with anti-aircraft weapons or the formation of a convoy cannot be considered as such..


    Even if we assume that "Armenia" was actually painted as a hospital ship (for which there is no iconographic evidence), it did not meet other requirements that would allow the ship to be considered a hospital ship.
    were not communicated to the other side as such, and most importantly - did not refrain from participating in hostilities! The evacuation of military personnel, arming with anti-aircraft weapons ... cannot be considered as such

    The conclusion is that although "Armenia" was a sanitary transport ship from a technical point of view, it was not a hospital ship within the meaning of the Hague conventions and its sinking, although it was a huge tragedy, was not a violation of international conventions.
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 May 2021 12: 54
      +1
      Quote: Constanty
      The conclusion is that although "Armenia" was a sanitary transport ship from a technical point of view, it was not a hospital ship within the meaning of the Hague conventions and its sinking, although it was a huge tragedy, was not a violation of international conventions.

      Let's start with the fact that according to the Soviet classification:
      1) Hospital ship
      2) Sanitary transport / barge
      3) San. boats, bots and other trifles.

      In the Soviet fleet during the war no no specific coloring was applied to the HS. Yes, and the status of the HS itself was conditional and did not fall under any conventions - for example, Andrei Zhdanov, having the status hospital ship, had a spherical color and carried anti-aircraft weapons and even a weapon for fighting submarines. Followed in orders and was definitely a legitimate target for the Germans. So the Soviet command did not initially put any protective and protective provisions of the Hague Convention into the meaning of the hospital ship. Mobilized ships were armed almost immediately.
      About coloring dignity. there is no question of transport - no one painted anything and no crosses were drawn. Therefore, I do not understand the breaking of copies around the legality / illegality of the German aircraft sinking transports, which alternately were either ordinary transports, or ambulances, or evacuation ones.
      1. Constanty
        Constanty 13 May 2021 14: 57
        +3
        I think so too. Armenia was not a hospital ship protected by the Hague Convention. In my opinion, it was also not painted, as the author claims. In the comments, you can even find a list of weapons that were made on individual flights (including guns).

        No secrets for me - just a tragedy during the war.

        And the cons, probably from "amateurs" - I'm used to it ;-)
        1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 May 2021 15: 16
          +3
          Quote: Constanty
          Armenia was not a hospital ship protected by the Hague Convention.

          Was not. And it would be more honest, in my opinion, to write "an armed transport transporting evacuees and wounded", and not to be cunning with the "hospitalization" of Armenia and invent "huge red crosses on board."
      2. Avior
        Avior 13 May 2021 15: 20
        +2
        ... the Soviet command did not initially include any protective and protective provisions of the Hague Convention in the meaning of the hospital ship

        Naturally, in principle, the USSR did not sign these Conventions.
        1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 May 2021 15: 29
          -1
          Quote: Avior
          Naturally, in principle, the USSR did not sign these Conventions.

          Why then lie and try to unwisely manipulate? However, this is a rhetorical question, if you remember who the author is)
          1. Avior
            Avior 13 May 2021 15: 35
            0
            Now, with the expansion of access to information for a wide range, many previously stable ideas about the events of the war will be rethought
            1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 May 2021 15: 44
              -1
              Quote: Avior
              Now, with the expansion of access to information for a wide range of

              Yes, but not everyone from the “wide circle” wants to take advantage of this. Some (higher in the branch) prefer chewed by all sorts of Samsonovs in a gruel that is digestible for their brains.
              1. Avior
                Avior 13 May 2021 15: 52
                +1
                Yes, some have a hard time
  • Chack wessel
    Chack wessel 13 May 2021 09: 20
    +4
    Quote: Olgovich
    Quote: Avior
    There were no guns on Gustlov, but he was not a hospital ship anyway,

    there were guns on Gustloff, incl. Air defense. In addition, it was officially the floating base of the German submarine fleet.

    An absolutely military ship.

    In addition, Gustloff was painted in a standard Kriegsmarine color, and walked without navigation lights, and with an escort.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  • bubalik
    bubalik 13 May 2021 11: 12
    +3
    Plaushevsky
    ,, was posthumously awarded the Order of the Battle Red Banner.
  • Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 13 May 2021 16: 01
    +1
    And no one knows which transport ships died in Balaklava Bay in 1942?
    1. Helmet
      Helmet 18 May 2021 15: 22
      +1
      None. In 1942, the entrance to Balaklava Bay was controlled by German field artillery, and not a single transport ship could enter it.
      1. Daniil Konovalenko
        Daniil Konovalenko 18 May 2021 15: 39
        +1
        Thank you so much.
  • Chack wessel
    Chack wessel 13 May 2021 16: 30
    +1
    Quote: Avior
    In general, Armenia was walking with security and escort.
    In addition, she was armed with guns

    And, as far as I know, the Germans were not subsequently charged with a war crime either in Nuremberg or anywhere else ... However, the German naval court in Kiel, EMNIP, in 1962 did not find Marinescu guilty of a war crime.
  • kig
    kig 13 May 2021 16: 35
    +7
    Found a short message from the Center for Underwater Research of the Russian Geographical Society about the 2nd expedition to Armenia

    During the survey, damage was found that was very similar to the result of a hit from one of the bombs, which confirms the version, published by the Center last year, about the attack by bombers, and not by torpedo bombers, as it was written in many sources. The superstructure of the ship is badly damaged, but not all changes in appearance are the result of an attack by fascist bombers. Unfortunately, no drawings and photographs of the motor ship "Armenia" have survived (or have not yet been found) after its conversion into a sanitary transport ship in 1941.

    The video of the new, better quality has already allowed the researchers to state the fact that the wooden wings of the lower bridge were dismantled during the redevelopment. No traces of them were found on the starboard side of the vessel, and this is clearly not the result of explosions or corrosion. According to the scarce data on the reconstruction of the ship, it is known that the ship was armed. And on this field exit, the team of researchers finally managed to find in the aft part of the starboard side one of (presumably four) cannons installed on the ship - this is a 45-mm 21-K semi-automatic gun. An interesting fact is that the anti-aircraft gun is in the "stowed" position - the barrel is directed backwards, parallel to the deck. That is, at least, this weapon did not fire at the enemy.

    Most importantly, the results of the survey allowed the researchers to doubt another common version of events, namely, that the ship sank in 4 minutes, and almost no one had a chance to survive.

    On the starboard side, none of the 10 boats were found in their regular places, they are also not on the ground, the davits are in the "overboard" position, the ropes on the kanifas blocks have been chopped off, that is, most likely, they were launched. This means that the ship was afloat for at least 15–20 minutes, and at least 500 people (10 boats of 50 people each) had a chance to escape. Also, in the aft part, an open aft loading hatch was found, that is, some people could have time to get out of the sinking ship this way.

    The more damaged port side of the vessel is yet to be examined.
    1. Unknown
      Unknown 13 May 2021 19: 28
      +3
      Quote: kig
      Found a short message from the Center for Underwater Research of the Russian Geographical Society about the 2nd expedition to Armenia

      During the survey, damage was found that was very similar to the result of hitting one of the bombs, which confirms the version, published by the Center last year, about the attack by bombers, and not by torpedo bombers, as it was written in many sources. The superstructure of the ship is badly damaged, but not all changes in appearance are the result of an attack by fascist bombers. Unfortunately, no drawings and photographs of the motor ship "Armenia" have survived (or have not yet been found) after its conversion into a sanitary transport ship in 1941.

      You brought a very interesting message, thank you. There were several versions of the loss of the ship? The main thing that the aircraft sunk. And immediately it is said
      Quote: kig
      but not all changes in appearance are the result of an attack by fascist bombers.

      A riddle? Or maybe there weren't any planes? After all, the stories about airplanes differ greatly. Some talk about a reconnaissance plane, and then about two torpedo bombers. Others talk about a single Junkers who appeared from nowhere. The third, in the face of the partisan, as correctly noted in the comments who, from 15 miles in a 7-point storm and poor visibility, considered the attack of the dive bombers. Is it possible to find out what types of aircraft the Germans had at that time, on this sector of the front? They didn't hang in the sky around the clock, observing Yalta and the sea, did they? How could they have spotted the ship so that they could get on it so accurately?
      Quote: kig
      it was possible to find in the aft part of the starboard side one of (presumably four) cannons installed on the ship - this is a 45-mm semi-automatic gun 21-K. An interesting fact is that the anti-aircraft gun is in the "stowed" position - the barrel is directed backwards, parallel to the deck. That is, at least, this weapon did not fire at the enemy.

      This also speaks against the aviation version.
      Quote: kig

      Most importantly, the results of the survey allowed the researchers to doubt another common version of events, namely, that the ship sank in 4 minutes, and almost no one had a chance to survive.

      On the starboard side, none of the 10 boats were found in their regular places, they are also not on the ground, the davits are in the "overboard" position, the ropes on the kanifas blocks have been chopped off, that is, most likely, they had time to be lowered into the water. This means that the ship was afloat for at least 15–20 minutes, and at least 500 people (10 boats of 50 people each) had a chance to escape.

      Riddles and more riddles. The watchmen came six hours later and, as it were, did not observe the planes. As for the rescued, the story of a certain Anastasia Popova, who, despite the terrible cold, swam pregnant to the shore. "Going out to sea, the ship was attacked by enemy aircraft. Sheer hell began. Bomb explosions, panic, people's screams - everything mixed up in an indescribable nightmare. People rushed around the deck, not knowing where to hide from the fire. I jumped into the sea and swam to the shore I don’t remember how I ended up on the shore. Of course I want to believe, but all the same it reminds of fantasy. Was there an explosion on a mine? There were large mine laying in that area, and there could be mines torn from the mines. The damage was painfully similar. and the speed with which the ship sank. It’s not easy to put bombs on the ship in 6-7 point excitement, at nord-ost. After all, the steamer "LENIN" was blown up by a mine.
      1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 May 2021 19: 58
        0
        Quote: Unknown
        How could they have spotted the ship so that they could get on it so accurately?

        Intelligence service.
        Thanks to the cameraman Force multiplier for a tip.
        1. Unknown
          Unknown 13 May 2021 20: 42
          +2
          Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Intelligence service.
          Thanks to the Force Multiplier cameraman for the tip.

          You know. I don't know what to say here !? Here I dug and found. ..In the operational summary of the headquarters for the protection of the water area of ​​the main base of the Black Sea Fleet, it was indicated that "Armenia" was attacked on November 7, 1941 at 11.25:4 am by a single torpedo bomber, a torpedo hit the bow, and the ship died in 40 minutes. These data were compared with the operational summary of the Luftwaffe, which reported that on the same day, two hours earlier (Berlin time), 28 miles south of Yalta, a torpedo bomber of the first group of the 1941th squadron was sunk by two aviation torpedoes a large transport. Historians added two hours to German time, received the same time in Moscow and linked all reports into a single picture of the death of "Armenia". True, says Alexander Skrobach, the researchers forgot that in XNUMX Germany did not switch to daylight saving time and lived in a dimension that differed from Moscow by only one hour, not two. and in the photo the nose is intact.
          An interesting meteorological report for November 7, 1941: strong northeastern wind 6–7 points, waves up to 6 points, cloud bottom 500 meters, cloud density 2–3 points (archives of the Black Sea Shipping Company, RGAVMF, Federal Military Archives of Germany). Not very flyable weather. Yes, getting into such excitement is difficult. Camaraden. beguiled something.
          1. Force multiplier
            Force multiplier 14 May 2021 12: 22
            0
            The Soviet bulletin says a torpedo bomber. An eyewitness on board the boat off the coast of Crimea that morning speaks of torpedo bombers. The German report says about a torpedo bomber, the attack time in the Soviet and German reports coincides up to a minute. But everyone lied and confused, because the facts do not fit into the theory of Alexander Skrobach. For an unknown bomber (there are no German applications, not only for sinking, but even for bombs to hit ships and vessels in this area), the weather does not interfere with hitting the target with bombs, but an accurately identified torpedo bomber from I./KG 28 attacking below cloud level (density as much as 2 / 10-3 / 10) is an insurmountable obstacle. In the photo, the hull of the vessel went deep into the ground, the hole from the torpedo was obviously in the underwater part.
            True, says Alexander Skrobach, the researchers forgot that in 1941 Germany did not switch to daylight saving time.

            True, Alexander Skrobach forgets about his own words:
            Skrobach noted that information about the death of "Armenia" was not in the operational summary of the Black Sea Fleet Air Force headquarters ...
            “We found the combat log of the Black Sea Fleet Air Force and Air Defense, and lo and behold: it turns out that in the morning an order came to cover the“ Armenia ”at the parking and exit from Yalta to the maximum combat radius of the fighters. link I-7, part we have not yet installed. They covered the "Armenia" when leaving Yalta, and at 9:00 the pilots reported the following: in the time interval between 10: 20 and 10: 40 "Armenia" is attacked by "Junkers-88"

            https://www.interfax.ru/russia/718332
            The difference is 1 hour. Only not Junkers, but He 111, and not two bombs, but two torpedoes.
            In the operational summary of the headquarters for the protection of the water area of ​​the main base of the Black Sea Fleet, it was indicated that "Armenia" was attacked on November 7, 1941 at 11.25 by a single torpedo bomber

            The boat was probably based in one of the bases in the Krasnodar Territory or Transcaucasia and reported (11.25) according to standard time (standard time + 1 hour)
  • Chack wessel
    Chack wessel 13 May 2021 16: 51
    +6
    Quote: Avior
    Naturally, in principle, the USSR did not sign these Conventions.

    There is no pattern. The fact is that the signatory countries of various Conventions, for example Germany, were obliged to apply the paragraphs of these Conventions in relation to those countries that were not signatory countries. And, even more so, no Convention obliges signatory countries not to apply paragraphs thereof in relation to non-signatory countries. This is the first ... Second: By the decree of the Council of People's Commissars of June 4, 1918, it was announced that Soviet Russia would recognize all the Conventions on the Red Cross, etc., which were signed by the Tsarist Government. Third: In response to a request from the Swedish government in a memorandum of the People's Commissar in. Affairs of the USSR of July 17, circular note No. 3 of August 8, 1941, it was announced that "the government of the USSR will comply with the well-known international treaties concerning the law of war" ... Well, somehow tag.
  • Chack wessel
    Chack wessel 13 May 2021 17: 01
    +1
    Quote: Constanty
    I think so too. Armenia was not a hospital ship protected by the Hague Convention. In my opinion, it was also not painted, as the author claims. In the comments, you can even find a list of weapons that were made on individual flights (including guns).

    No secrets for me - just a tragedy during the war.

    And the cons, probably from "amateurs" - I'm used to it ;-)

    As far as I remember, in order for a ship to be considered a hospital ship, it is not enough for it to be in the appropriate color. It should not have any weapons, acre of small arms from the crew, necessary to maintain order on board, the vessel should go with the navigation lights on, without blackout, and, yes, without an escort. The vessel should not carry troops or cargo. At the same time, all these conditions must be met ... The captain of a hospital ship must give an opportunity to inspect the ship for the enemy inspection team for compliance with these standards. In case of compliance with these, the vessel must be released ...
    ... As far as I remember, the Soviet side never officially interpreted the sinking of "Armenia" as a war crime ... On the other hand, the Naval Court in Kiel did not recognize Marinescu as a war criminal.
  • Force multiplier
    Force multiplier 13 May 2021 19: 06
    0
    According to the testimony of a sailor from Yakovlev's boat, a German reconnaissance officer first appeared at about 10 o'clock. After a while, on low level flight, almost touching the water, two enemy torpedo bombers entered the area. One went towards Yalta, the other attacked, but missed. The second torpedo bomber acted successfully. At 11:25 am “Armenia was attacked by Heinkel He 111. As a result of a direct hit from a torpedo (as previously thought) or two, a strong explosion occurred.


    Corresponds well to German documents.
    At 09.00 (German time), a German plane detects a transport with a displacement of 8000 brt 40 km (so in the report, not a mile) south of Yalta
    At 09.24 German. a torpedo bomber (the same plane as at 09.00:2?) fires 40 torpedoes at a "large military transport" XNUMX km south of Yalta and announces its sinking.

    All versions about bombs are nonsense. The case is indicative. Once again emphasizes the importance of not neglecting eyewitness testimonies
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 May 2021 19: 12
      0
      Quote: Force Multiplier
      Corresponds well to German documents.

      Can I have a link?
      1. Force multiplier
        Force multiplier 13 May 2021 19: 15
        0
        Of course
        https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/nodes/2772-akte-172-lageberichte-des-f-hrungsstabes-der-luftwaffe-ber-die-lage-an-den-fronten-einschlie-lich-der-deutsch-sowjetischen-front#page/148/mode/inspect/zoom/6

        Scout Report on page 144

        It has been in the public domain for years
        1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 May 2021 19: 28
          0
          Quote: Force Multiplier
          It has been in the public domain for years

          laughing And here we are wondering ...
          Here - in black in German - one bomber with two torpedoes drowned a transport

          Thank you. hi
          1. bubalik
            bubalik 13 May 2021 19: 36
            +1
            orce Multiplier
            Today, bzats Epitafievich Y.
            Today,,

            Well, nifiga yourself! But how did historians miss this?
            So, in the operational summary that I have cited above, the reason for the sinking is correctly indicated ?.
            1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 May 2021 19: 51
              0
              Quote: bubalik
              But how did historians miss this?

              yes no, the version of the torpedoes with the He-111 was the main one, kmk.
  • Catfish
    Catfish 13 May 2021 21: 44
    +2
    [quote] In addition to "Armenia" in the Quarantine Bay, the transport "Bialystok" was loaded ... [quote]



    I wonder where they fit there, and one transporter will not fit there, and two even more so. In the 70-80s, Karantinka was a base for torpedo boats (BTK), and they barely fit there.
    Something is wrong again with Samsonov and K.
  • wow
    wow 14 May 2021 15: 06
    0
    Europoids are still being driven to A. Marinesko, who sank "Wilhelm Gustlov" in January 1945. Like it was a hospital ship !?
  • Sergey V.
    Sergey V. 25 May 2021 23: 20
    0
    It's all about the name. We sailed in Armenian ...
  • Bat039
    Bat039 27 June 2021 13: 59
    +1
    And after that, in the west and their singers in the post-Soviet space, they have the audacity to open their mouths to Morinescu, for the fact that he drowned Gustlov and Steuben ... Gentlemen, after you deliberately shot Soviet medical ships and trains, burned whole villages alive, any action against you is fully justified.