Military Review

The steel grip of "soft power": Turkey in Azerbaijan

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Photo: Anadolu Agency


"The sorrow of Azerbaijan is our sorrow, its joy is our joy."

- Mustafa Kemal Ataturk.

Continuing our journey through the new possessions of Ankara, Azerbaijan should in no way be missed.

Despite the skepticism that prevailed in Russian analyst circles, Turkey has more than successfully entrenched itself in a number of former Soviet republics. In the previous article ("The steel grip of" soft power ": Turkey in Georgia") we considered one of the typical examples of the successful expansion of Ankara in the post-Soviet space. Georgia, however, is significantly different precisely in that it used mainly economic instruments to promote Turkish influence.

Azerbaijan is fundamentally different from the rest of the countries, firstly, in the final achievements of Turkey, expressed in a significant merger with the center of power (in the person of Ankara), and secondly, in the arsenal of means used for this.

At the same time, it is worthwhile to immediately make a reservation and say that relations between Turkey and Azerbaijan in this case can be viewed as a decent relationship between the overlord and his vassal. Ankara does not encroach on the sovereignty of the republic and does not humiliate its dignity. But their military, political and economic interconnections are obvious to the whole world.

“In the early 1990s, traditional pan-Turkic ideas about the creation of the Great Turan were revived again.
Turkish leaders started talking seriously about a new Turkic-speaking community from the Adriatic Sea to the Great Wall of China. At the same time, Ankara did not doubt its ability not only to replace Moscow in the role of the “elder brother” of the Turkic peoples, but also to exclude the possibility of direct Western influence in the region.
On the pages of the Turkish media, the idea of ​​a historical chance "to restore the Turkic unity" began to be persistently carried out. Instead of the words "Uzbek", "Kyrgyz",
"Tatar" and others to denote ethnicity of steel
used such phrases as "Uzbek Turk", "Kyrgyz Turk", "Crimean Turk".
The term "external Turks" came into circulation, which meant the Turkic peoples living outside Turkey ... "

- S. Druzhilovskiy, “Turkey: the habit of managing”.

Azerbaijan


Starting to analyze the topic of relations between Turkey and Azerbaijan, one should dwell on one extremely remarkable and interesting fact.

Turkish and Azerbaijani languages ​​are extremely similar. They have a common origin and, as linguists say, in ordinary everyday conversation, the inhabitants of these countries can easily understand each other. Of course, such an absence of a language barrier simply could not but play its favorable role.

So let's continue.

Of course, in the Russian information space, Ankara's actions were viewed exclusively from the point of view of using military instruments of influence. It should be noted that this is an extremely one-sided approach that does not at all take into account the economic relationship between the two countries, without which any full-fledged cooperation in the defense sphere would simply be impossible.

During the first two decades after the collapse of the Soviet Union, Moscow's military and political influence in the post-Soviet space remained strong enough. To a certain extent, it held back any attempts to resume hostilities in the "frozen" conflict zones, one of which was Nagorno-Karabakh.

It is worth making a reservation and saying that without touching on the topic of the Armenian-Azerbaijani confrontation, it is impossible to consider Turkish-Azerbaijani relations. It was this conflict that to a large extent contributed to the development of relations between Baku and Ankara.

The impossibility of starting hostilities contributed to the fact that Azerbaijan was actively trying to find non-military ways to resolve the territorial dispute. It is known that the President of the Republic Ilham Aliyev offered Armenia even such options as the buyout of Nagorno-Karabakh - however, to no avail.

The Turkish Republic, in turn, in those years was mainly engaged in the economic and cultural merger with Baku. It was a very systematic and high-quality work, which formed a solid foundation of Turkish influence in Azerbaijan.

To date, the volume of bilateral trade between states is at the level of $ 5 billion (according to the plans of the leaders of the republics, the goal for the next years is 15 billion). To date, Turkish contracting companies have implemented 436 projects in Azerbaijan worth $ 16,3 billion (probably, the figures have already changed upwards). Ankara has also been the leader in terms of direct investments in the non-oil sector of the Azerbaijani economy for many years: by 2015, they amounted to $ 220,4 million.

The steel grip of "soft power": Turkey in Azerbaijan

The general investment climate of the countries is extremely favorable: from 2002 to the present, Baku has invested $ 19 billion in the Turkish economy. 62,4% of these investments were in the service sector, 32,9% in financing and insurance, 24,2% in manufacturing, 11% in energy. Thus, Azerbaijan is among the top ten largest investors in Ankara. And it is worth recognizing that this process is absolutely reciprocal: Turkey has invested about $ 13 billion in the Azerbaijani economy.

It is also worth mentioning that currently there are 4,2 companies with Turkish capital operating in Azerbaijan.

“We give priority to Turkish companies within the framework of various restoration works (in Karabakh). I am glad that Turkish businessmen are sending a large number of proposals for participation in these works. A number of Turkish companies have already been involved in the process of creating the appropriate infrastructure in the liberated territories, and we will continue active cooperation with Turkey in this direction. "

- Mikail Jabbarov, Minister of Economy of Azerbaijan.

At present, the countries have become even more active in pursuing a policy of strengthening economic ties. Apparently, in the future, Baku and Ankara see them as a complete merger. As mentioned above, the republics are striving to achieve a trade turnover of $ 15 billion. To this end, two new agreements have been signed: "Memorandum of Understanding on the Agreement on the Simplification of Customs Procedures" (the so-called "digital trade agreement") and "Preferential Trade Agreement".

This will entail an even greater flow of mutual investments, contribute to a decrease in fees for goods when crossing customs and simplify document circulation.

Separately, it is worth talking about such an aspect of "soft power" as direct relations between the Turkish and Azerbaijani population.

"Welcome to the nest."

It is with these words that Turkish border guards meet Azerbaijani citizens in their country.

It should be said that at least 700 Azerbaijanis visit the Republic of Turkey annually. This year, another significant fact was noted - the complete abolition of passports. Citizens of the two countries will be able to travel to each other according to internal documents.

Turkey has a very reverent attitude towards the inhabitants of Azerbaijan: the latter are perceived as brothers, and they have access to all the privileges of the indigenous population, up to simplified customs control. All goods and services for them cost as for their own citizens, and not as for foreign tourists. The Turks even call the Azerbaijani language cleaner and closer to the Turkic original than their own.

Of course, such an attitude could not fail to bear fruit.

This is not populism or ineffective political slogans - this is a real fusion of two kindred peoples.

Military sphere


Real military cooperation between the countries emerged only in 2012.

For a long time it was limited and modest and did not appear to dangerous outside observers.

This could be explained by the strong influence of Moscow, which was the main supplier of arms to Azerbaijan. As known, weapons the market is also about after-sales service and training of military personnel.


At that time, many Azerbaijani officers had exactly Russian military education.

The situation began to change dramatically after the signing of the 21st article of the "Agreement on Cooperation in the Field of the Defense Industry" in 2017.

After that, the full penetration of Turkish influence into the military structures of Azerbaijan began.

The essence of the 21st article was to organize the training of the officer corps of Azerbaijan on the training and material base of the Turkish armed forces.

According to 2019 statistics, 18000 future officers of the Azerbaijani Armed Forces were trained in Turkish military academies, and at least 8000 active military personnel received additional retraining there.

It was these people who made up the backbone of the forces of the Azerbaijani army during the second war for Nagorno-Karabakh.

The second significant aspect of military cooperation was joint exercises: "Falcons of Turkey and Azerbaijan", joint exercises of special operations forces, which are held alternately on the territory of one of the states, regular exercises "Anatolian Phoenix" and "Winter".

To date, the republics conduct approximately 15 joint military exercises every year.

After the victory in Nagorno-Karabakh, the final stage of dismantling the Russian political influence on the Azerbaijani army began: due to ties with Moscow, Chief of the General Staff Najmeddin Sadykov was dismissed and fired, and young officers with combat experience are actively ousting the old composition, which still has a Russian military education.

The fact of the growth of the power and capabilities of the defense-industrial complex of Turkey turned out to be no less significant. It was thanks to this that the process of active purchases of Turkish arms began (this was not observed before). Thus, the export of military products to Azerbaijan in 2021 increased by 850,4% compared to the first quarter of 2020.

An important agreement on cooperation in the defense industry was signed between Turkey and Azerbaijan this year. The agreement implies joint military research on the territory of the two countries. Thanks to this, Turkish defense enterprises will be able to expand their activities on the territory of Azerbaijan and create new production facilities in the republic.

On top of this, the annual strategic dialogue summit discussed the creation of three Turkish military bases on the territory of Azerbaijan, including on the Caspian Sea (which, of course, will pose a threat to our Caspian flotilla).

Conclusion


Summing up, we can say that Ankara has perfectly mastered the art of promoting non-force influence.

Turkey is patiently and skillfully looking for points of contact with countries of interest to it, carefully and consistently penetrating into all spheres of their existence.

This is how the new realities of interstate competition look.

This is how the power of "soft power" looks like - a weapon that conquers entire countries without firing a single shot.
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  1. Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 11 May 2021 04: 30
    +6
    Nothing new in Turkey's politics ... carrot and stick.
    We are pushing people loyal to Turkey into power, we are removing those who are not loyal.
    Without Aliyev's support for pro-Turkish forces, this would have been impossible.
    This process was simply stretched out in time, the Turkish special services had competent specialists ... they did not force the events and cleaned and prepared the site quite well at all levels of government in Azerbaijan ... something can be compared with the activities of the Americans in the post-Soviet space.
    Russia had nothing to offer Azerbaijan as an alternative to Turkish influence.
    Turkey, of course, will not rest on this and we should observe the same picture of penetration into our territory ... this will happen secretly and imperceptibly for our society.
    .
    1. Peak
      Peak 11 May 2021 05: 53
      +10
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Russia had nothing to offer Azerbaijan as an alternative to Turkish influence.

      This is a country affirmation against the background of the presence of such a not frail "Azerbaijani community" on our territory, through which we can influence the policy of Baku.
      How many, by the way, millions of Azerbaijanis live with us permanently, or do they come "on visits"?

      Rather, we, as always, "slept" the moment, relying on our usual - "And where will they go?".

      We have both "soft" and "hard" power, but we do not have the determination to use them. This is why we are pushing our positions down, and that is why they are pushing us back - here and there ...
      1. for
        for 11 May 2021 06: 01
        +5
        Quote: PiK
        not frail of such a "Azerbaijani community

        My opinion even in the days of the USSR and now they are the least of all. There are a lot of Armenians and they are still arriving.
        1. Peak
          Peak 11 May 2021 06: 12
          0
          Quote: for
          My opinion even in the days of the USSR and now they are the least of all.


          According to unofficial data, about 3 million Azerbaijanis currently live in Russia.

          According to BAKU.WS with reference to interfax.az, the State Committee for Work with the Diaspora of Azerbaijan notes this.
          “At present, according to official data, about 700 thousand Azerbaijanis live in Russia, and according to unofficial figures, up to 3 million Azerbaijanis,” it was noted at a meeting between Chairman of the State Committee Fuad Muradov and director of the House of Friendship of the Peoples of Tatarstan, deputy of the State Council of Tatarstan Irek Sharipov.


          https://ru.baku.ws/obschestvo/100252


          There are 3 million Azerbaijanis in Turkey. But official Baku also calls this figure "strongly overestimated", indicating that this figure is clearly supplemented by local, Anatolian Azerbaijanis.
          1. Nazar
            Nazar 14 May 2021 08: 25
            0
            PiK - I wonder how the religious question is solved with all this? Well, well, it is declared that Azerbaijanis and Turks are "fraternal" peoples, or generally "one people" - but still some of them are Shiites, others are Sunites, how do they get along with each other?
            1. Yujanin
              Yujanin 17 May 2021 11: 19
              0

              but still, some of them are Shiites, others are Sunites, how do they get along with each other?

              In general, Azerbaijanis are of a secular nature. I think for this reason they are not bothered by Sunni Turkey, however, like Orthodox Russia for the Azerbaijanis of the Russian Federation.
        2. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 11 May 2021 10: 08
          +9
          Quote: for

          My opinion even in the days of the USSR and now they are the least of all. There are a lot of Armenians and they are still arriving.

          There are enough, they just do not stand out - businessmen or hard workers, at least crime.
      2. Lech from Android.
        Lech from Android. 11 May 2021 06: 12
        +1
        Well, in Russia there are also communities of Ukrainians, Armenians, Tajiks, Uzbeks, etc. And do we really have a strong influence on these republics ... this is absolutely not enough ... when we will influence the elite of these republics, then we can what to say. hi
        In the meantime, everything is so shaky and not certain.
        1. Peak
          Peak 11 May 2021 06: 14
          +9
          Quote: Lech from Android.
          Well, in Russia there are also communities of Ukrainians, Armenians, Tajiks, Uzbeks, etc. And do we have a strong influence on these republics ... this is absolutely not enough ...

          Quote: PiK

          We have both "soft" and "hard" power, but we do not have the determination to use them. About this we are losing our position, about that and they are crowding us - here and there ( and in Ukraine in the first place) ...


          Why - "in Ukraine in the first place“? Yes, because such a close connection as between Russians and Ukrainians, including family and relatives, still needs to be found in the world.

          But we also manage to squander this truly invaluable asset.
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. boni592807
          boni592807 12 May 2021 18: 34
          0
          Lech from Android. (Lech from Android), Yesterday, 06:12, NEW - "...Well, in Russia there are also communities of Ukrainians, Armenians, Tajiks, Uzbeks, etc. And do we really have a strong influence on these republics ... this is absolutely not enough ... when we will influence the elite of these republics, then we can what to say. hi. In the meantime, everything is so shaky and not certain ... "

          Do you think so, "shaky and vague"? belay
          Regarding THEM-YES, but with regard to the Russian Federation -...cm. Media and reports of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the FSB ... vague or vague? .. and this. excluding "hanging" and not "past".
          And if still multiplied,
          - for the number of "funny" numbers Ministry of Internal Affairs (little reminiscent of reality) about illegal migrants,
          - for financial - there is confidence, see the media for billions of opportunities for diasporas,
          - age and general physical training of their composition, org-tee.
          Etc. Moscow, an attack on a police car of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, "recaptured" Cf. Asia of his, whom the police arrested. By the way, there is a video. And there were cases with massive participation against riot police, some kind of shopping center.
          Perspective? See the appeal to Macron (France) of the stock and operating ones. What should be a problem if about her:
          - in 2016 he wrote - Oland (then President of France),
          - in 2018 - resigned due to the IMPOSSIBILITY to solve this problem - Minister of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of France
          - 2021 is now a strictly regulated army, turned to the President of France about the danger of the destruction of France ?!
          Really the French "joked" risking their position and pensions (monetary maintenance), preferring an oath ?! hi
      3. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 11 May 2021 09: 26
        -2
        Quote: PiK
        How many, by the way, millions of Azerbaijanis live with us permanently, or do they come "on visits"?

        Thus, the 5th column of Turkey is located on the territory of Russia.
        1. Patigorsk2020
          Patigorsk2020 11 May 2021 15: 00
          +5
          Quote: tihonmarine
          Thus, the 5th column of Turkey is located on the territory of Russia.

          Did you think a lot to write this crap?) 4 people from this 5 column are friends of Putin and one is generally a classmate.
          1. tihonmarine
            tihonmarine 11 May 2021 16: 31
            -2
            Quote: Patigorsk2020
            Did you think a lot to write this crap?) 4 people from this 5 column are friends of Putin and one is generally a classmate.

            Not long, I managed to take away 5 homies from a million and received 999 people - but no longer friends and homies.
            1. Patigorsk2020
              Patigorsk2020 11 May 2021 20: 55
              +4
              Quote: tihonmarine
              Not long, I managed to take away 5 homies from a million and received 999 people - but no longer friends and homies.

              You can safely sleep. If Putin is not the 5th column himself, then you can sleep soundly. Of these 999.995, a huge mass work on these 5 homies, and everyone else does not even know what a 5 column is, they are not up to it. But you should open your eyes and look carefully who is your friend and who is the enemy.
      4. Snusmumrik
        Snusmumrik 11 May 2021 10: 23
        +8
        We have both "soft" and "hard" power, but we do not have the determination to use them.

        I'm not sure that our elite currently has a clear understanding of how we should behave in the post-Soviet space, with the exception of the military (power) aspect. Rattling caterpillars on paving stones at parades and selling weapons is more familiar and understandable. Of course, without this, too, nothing, but times have changed and this must be understood.
        Now not so much territory is being conquered as refrigerators, minds and hearts of people. And it can change the borders of states cheaper and more reliably than any Iskander and Sarmatians.
        I believe that Russia should generate several regional turnkey projects. Not just "we will sell you weapons" or "we will build roads for you." It should be something more, taking into account the national specifics.
        1. Anzhey V.
          11 May 2021 10: 42
          +6
          Now not so much territory is being conquered as refrigerators, minds and hearts of people. And it can change the borders of states cheaper and more reliably than any Iskander and Sarmatians.


          This is not the first publication I try to explain to people, but I meet, in the main, a deaf misunderstanding.

          In our country, not only ordinary people, but also the professional community (I regularly contact them) still believe that politics is just menacing to break paving stones with tanks.

          PS: Thank you for your nice comment.
          1. tihonmarine
            tihonmarine 11 May 2021 16: 37
            +1
            Quote: Anjay V.
            Now not so much territory is being conquered as refrigerators, minds and hearts of people. And it can change the borders of states cheaper and more reliably than any Iskander and Sarmatians.


            This is not the first publication I try to explain to people, but I meet, in the main, a deaf misunderstanding.

            In our country, not only ordinary people, but also the professional community (I regularly contact them) still believe that politics is just menacing to break paving stones with tanks.

            PS: Thank you for your nice comment.

            In 1991, the USSR army was the most armed and strongest in the world, but within a short time the country fell, and the army also fell without firing a single shot. The refrigerators were then empty.
            1. Anzhey V.
              11 May 2021 22: 39
              +2
              In 1991, the USSR army was the most armed and strongest in the world, but within a short time the country fell, and the army also fell without firing a single shot. The refrigerators were then empty.


              Unfortunately, most of our compatriots still do not understand this fact.

              Provocateurs (from all sides) use this successfully, shaping public opinion in favor of starting a new arms race. Like, guys, let's make tanks and cruisers, and then we're like wow!
              1. tihonmarine
                tihonmarine 12 May 2021 08: 46
                0
                Quote: Anjay V.
                Like, guys, let's make tanks and cruisers, and then we're like wow!

                This has never led to good, and now it will not.
      5. Patigorsk2020
        Patigorsk2020 11 May 2021 14: 57
        +4
        Quote: PiK
        This is a country affirmation against the background of the presence of such a not frail "Azerbaijani community" on our territory, through which we can influence the policy of Baku.

        Russia does not have such a leverage that could influence relations between Turkey and Azerbaijan. Even China and the United States lack such leverage.

        Quote: PiK
        How many, by the way, millions of Azerbaijanis live with us permanently, or do they come "on visits"?

        Don't you think what this can bode for Russia? Do you need a new enemy?
        I'm watching the day of the sofa experts today.
    2. parma
      parma 11 May 2021 08: 40
      +5
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Nothing new in Turkey's politics ... carrot and stick.
      We are pushing people loyal to Turkey into power, we are removing those who are not loyal.
      Without Aliyev's support for pro-Turkish forces, this would have been impossible.
      This process was simply stretched out in time, the Turkish special services had competent specialists ... they did not force the events and cleaned and prepared the site quite well at all levels of government in Azerbaijan ... something can be compared with the activities of the Americans in the post-Soviet space.
      Russia had nothing to offer Azerbaijan as an alternative to Turkish influence.
      Turkey, of course, will not rest on this and we should observe the same picture of penetration into our territory ... this will happen secretly and imperceptibly for our society.
      .

      What to offer was and will always be, you just need to look ... the question is the unwillingness / inability to look for this something from the people responsible for this .. yes, Azerbaijan does not need our money directly (they have enough of their own, they will not beg) .. when choosing between easily bought elites of Armenia or complex schemes of influence on the elites of Azerbaijan, they chose Armenians ... in the end they lost both of them (Armenia found a richer patron) ...
      1. Patigorsk2020
        Patigorsk2020 11 May 2021 15: 01
        +2
        Quote: parma
        when choosing between easily bought elites of Armenia or complex schemes of influence on the elites of Azerbaijan, they chose Armenians ... in the end they lost both of them (Armenia found a richer patron) ...

        They wrote it right. You are the first sane. You are a plus. In one word, they bet on the wrong one.
      2. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 11 May 2021 16: 43
        0
        Quote: parma
        Yes, Azerbaijan does not need our money directly (they have enough of their own, they will not beg) .. when choosing between easily bought elites of Armenia or complex schemes of influence on the elites of Azerbaijan, they chose Armenians.

        Correctly wrote who is richer and the "patron". But Azerbaijan cannot be a friend either, but you can live with it good-neighborly.
        1. Patigorsk2020
          Patigorsk2020 11 May 2021 20: 56
          +1
          Quote: tihonmarine
          But Azerbaijan cannot be a friend either, but you can live with it good-neighborly.

          Tell us a couple of facts, why did you decide that you cannot be a friend? All in attention. Only I ask no couch arguments. But serious facts.
          1. tihonmarine
            tihonmarine 12 May 2021 08: 43
            0
            Quote: Patigorsk2020
            Tell us a couple of facts, why did you decide that you cannot be a friend? All in attention. Only I ask no couch arguments. But serious facts.

            Just like I will ask you a question, what are the facts about friendship. I saw enough of it in St. Petersburg after the collapse of the USSR, in the early 90s. Therefore, one can only live peacefully.
            1. Suleyman
              Suleyman 12 May 2021 09: 19
              +2
              Quote: tihonmarine
              I saw enough of it in St. Petersburg after the collapse of the USSR, in the early 90s.

              So we saw enough of her in January 90th. What do you think it should have been?
            2. Patigorsk2020
              Patigorsk2020 12 May 2021 13: 17
              +2
              Quote: tihonmarine
              Just like I will ask you a question

              you have no facts on your charges. The user Suleiman answered you. In the 90s, in January, despite these events, they did not close down Russian TV in Azerbaijan, they did not expel Russians, they did not close Russian schools and institutes, they didn’t ask for NATO, they didn’t boycott your goods and much more ... .... unlike Armenians !!!!
              1. tihonmarine
                tihonmarine 12 May 2021 14: 19
                0
                Quote: Patigorsk2020
                In the 90s, in January, despite these events, Russian TV was not closed in Azerbaijan, Russians were not expelled, Russian schools and institutes were not closed,

                In this you need to give credit. Only for this reason, if at the time of the collapse there were about 500 Russians living in Azerbaijan, now there are just over 000 of them. And at the same time, on the territory of Russia, the Azerbaijani diaspora increased after the collapse of the USSR.
                1. vlad.baryatinsky
                  vlad.baryatinsky 12 May 2021 15: 37
                  +2
                  On the territory of the Azerbaijan SSR, many military units of the SA were billeted.
                  Naturally, everyone is with their families. But there was an outflow. Russians, almost 150 K. Do not forget about the Belarusians and Ukrainians who currently continue to live in Azerbaijan.
                2. Patigorsk2020
                  Patigorsk2020 13 May 2021 09: 04
                  +1
                  Quote: tihonmarine
                  This is why, if at the time of the collapse there were about 500 Russians living in Azerbaijan, now there are just over 000 of them.

                  First, not only Russians, but also many Azerbaijanis and Jews left for Azerbaijan after the 1s. The first to Europe and Russia and the second to Israel or Germany AND BELIEVE, this does not mean that they were squeezed out, but because they want to live well, and at that time, the dog did not even recognize the owner, plus the war. This is the only reason.
                  In the second, even Armenians live in Azerbaijan to this day. And nobody touches them.

                  Everyone wants bread for their families. Everything!
                  1. tihonmarine
                    tihonmarine 13 May 2021 09: 08
                    0
                    Quote: Patigorsk2020
                    In the second, even Armenians live in Azerbaijan to this day. And nobody touches them.

                    I don’t doubt it.
          2. tagil
            tagil 12 May 2021 22: 13
            0
            Tell me about these couple of facts, and then tell about friendship.

            And at the same time, how should I treat them and why should I be friends with them.
            1. tihonmarine
              tihonmarine 13 May 2021 09: 10
              0
              Quote: Tagil
              And at the same time, how should I treat them and why should I be friends with them.

              It is possible to coexist peacefully, but not to be friends.
              1. tagil
                tagil 13 May 2021 13: 32
                0
                And it is possible to be friends, if they set their "own" president, like the state members in other countries, and carry out appropriate work with the population. And I see no reason why we should not do this, unlike Turkey, America and Europe.
                1. tihonmarine
                  tihonmarine 13 May 2021 14: 08
                  0
                  Quote: Tagil
                  And you can be friends if they put their "own" president, like the state officials in other countries,

                  Well, I don’t see that there is “friendship of peoples” in the states, especially between whites and blacks, and the local population is not deeply delighted with the conquerors.
                  1. tagil
                    tagil 13 May 2021 14: 21
                    0
                    In general, I meant loyal, friendly governments that were brought to power illegally in other countries.
            2. Yujanin
              Yujanin 17 May 2021 14: 07
              -1
              How correct is it to form an opinion about the people through the social network?
              1. The comment was deleted.
    3. Anzhey V.
      11 May 2021 10: 25
      +2
      Russia had nothing to offer Azerbaijan as an alternative to Turkish influence


      Unfortunately, this is not at all the case, but the necessary work was never done.

      And this is very offensive, because ten years ago we had much more influence on Baku than Turkey.

      First of all, it was necessary to actively work on a real solution to the Karabakh problem. For Azerbaijan, it was a matter of national principle, and it was impossible to close our eyes to this.

      Roughly speaking, if we had facilitated the buyout of half of Karabakh by the Aliyevs, for example, now everything would be completely different.

      Our other big problem in comparison with the Turks is business. It's almost gone.

      The Turks, wherever they go, conduct the same construction projects in hundreds, actively establish trade, and so on.

      They give money not in the form of loans, as we do to Belarusians, but in the form of investments.

      In a word, they do not do anything that we could not do.

      But we don't ...
      1. Artyom Karagodin
        Artyom Karagodin 11 May 2021 10: 58
        +2
        Yes, very disappointing. And why? All the same: the Turks clearly know what they want from life. And we are marking time, having no long-term and INTERESTED development plans that would be supported by the overwhelming majority of Russians. We are for everything good, against everything bad. An alarming situation, what is really there ...
        1. Anzhey V.
          11 May 2021 11: 06
          0
          And we are marking time, without long-term and INTERESTED development plans


          Frankly speaking, in the course of studying the materials on promoting Turkish influence, I realized one interesting thing - for at least the first decade they did not have any long-term strategy.

          The Turks sought to develop their economy and economic ties as actively as possible, and who will do this better than a private trader?

          So they gave free rein to business, and business began its conquest.

          So sometimes you need not so much good plans as a fuse, initiative and a banal desire to live well.

          Turkey has declared itself as a military force quite recently, albeit with pomp - but it only worked because they have been carrying out economic and cultural activities for years.
          1. Albay
            Albay 11 May 2021 23: 11
            +1
            Andrzej
            .
            Frankly speaking, in the course of studying the materials on promoting Turkish influence, I realized one interesting thing - for at least the first decade they did not have any long-term strategy.

            If you are interested in my opinion, the problem was in the state structure of Turkey. For decades, coalition governments were in power that ate and got along with each other. The military, as it were, looked at all this from above, getting everything they wanted. The United States and the West easily pushed through. their interests because there was political instability. For the first time, Erdogan's party came to power without coalition partners and for the first decade they were looking for different foreign policy ways, preparing amendments to the constitution and taking control of power structures. In Turkey, even counterintelligence and intelligence were not united, some worked for representatives of the oligarchy , some on the parties, some on foreign centers in general. Erdogan turned Turkey from a parliamentary republic into a presidential one. He achieved cohesion and unified management in the power structures. He turned the intelligence and counterintelligence service into a single manageable organization. Therefore, it was only a thief decades after the suppression and military revolt of Turkey. already finalized and began to introduce its own independent foreign policy doctrine, which, of course, does not please the United States, but it suits Russia quite well.
        2. Anzhey V.
          11 May 2021 11: 17
          -1
          All the same: the Turks clearly know what they want from life


          Druzhilovsky has very good materials from the beginning of the XNUMXs about the growth of the Turkish ideas of the Great Turan and other things.

          It perfectly shows that in the 90s and 2000s, the idea of ​​a great state of the Turks did not interest anyone at all.

          The idea was splendid, there were a lot of plans, but without an economic foundation, the Turks died out.

          Why? Because no one needs ideas by themselves.

          Everything is built primarily around basic needs. And we are still trying to squeeze out of ourselves something such a great ideological, so that everyone will get through)))
          1. Artyom Karagodin
            Artyom Karagodin 11 May 2021 12: 33
            0
            It's not about the great ideological, you misunderstood me, Andrei. In general, I think that ideology is a thing that becomes outdated very quickly, this time. Second, ideology denotes some kind of framework into which, as experience shows, anything can fall. Even something that has nothing to do with her. Genetics, for example. Is it just her?

            The Turks, as you rightly noted, had a definite goal - to get into all the markets that are possible. They went towards this goal, they achieved it. Now Erdogan and his supporters have set a goal - to revive the power of Turkey during the heyday of the Ottoman Empire. They pursue her - consistently and persistently. And the idea of ​​the Great Turan is just a tool. Erdogan is not such an idealist and maximalist not to fully understand its unrealizability. It seems to me that his goal is to squeeze the maximum possible out of this idea. And then it can be neatly curtailed, focusing on those plots that they will be able to knock out for themselves within the framework of this very Turan and reducing the funding of projects that have not justified themselves. It is quite pragmatic.

            And so - on each of the "ideological" points that Turkey is now promoting. But this is just an assumption, which, of course, seems correct to me))). As a matter of fact - I do not know. I do not own the subject at the level necessary for some unambiguous statements.
          2. Artyom Karagodin
            Artyom Karagodin 11 May 2021 13: 45
            0
            Second, ideology denotes some kind of framework into which, as experience shows, anything can fall.

            Error in the comment. May NOT get there, I wanted to write))).
          3. Albay
            Albay 11 May 2021 14: 18
            +2
            About ideas about the Great Turan Druzhilovsky is wrong. It has always been on the agenda and always only part of the violence and parties, just like now. Walk the streets and ask people what they think about it. You will be surprised. All these stuffing about the great Turan. and the fact that this has captured the minds of politicians and millions in Turkey is just a fantasy of Turkophobes.
          4. Humpty
            Humpty 11 May 2021 17: 34
            -2
            Quote: Anjay V.
            about the growth of Turkish ideas of the Great Turan and other things.

            What do you mean in a concept that does not exist in nature, both geographic and political. Moreover, write with capital letters, what sits in the form of someone's idea is not a fact that a completely healthy head.
            I believe that an attempt to bring this idea to life will end very badly, first of all, for millions of Turkic-speaking people. At the same time, the Turks can sit out quietly limiting themselves to angry exclamations.
            Something like that was already by the way.
      2. Albay
        Albay 11 May 2021 14: 09
        +3
        Greetings Anzhej! Probably for the first time I read a rather sober analysis of relations between Turkey and Azerbaijan. Usually in this topic I mock the topic and the brain of the people of the Turkophobe Samsonov. There are several remarks:
        1.There are no relations of suzera and vassals between Turkey and Azerbaijan. The events of 2009 are a vivid confirmation, when Turkey wanted to open the border with Armenia without Azerbaijan, Aliyev turned on economic levers and forced the initiators to first abandon ideas, and then completely resign.
        2. Active military cooperation between Azerbaijan and Turkey began in 1994, and until 2012, tens of thousands of officers and soldiers were trained in Turkey. In all military schools, teachers are former cadets of Turkish military schools.
        3. Sadykov was removed in the first days of the war, dismissed after the war. Your conclusion is wrong, the general who replaced him also graduated from the Soviet school and the Minister of Defense has a Soviet education. It's just that if among the generals there is still a parity of students in Soviet schools and in Turkish, then among the secondary and 90 percent of junior officers were trained in Turkey. As for Sadykov, I think his trouble is corruption and not knowing his native language.
        4. I agree with you that Russia itself did everything in order to alienate Azerbaijan from itself. During the times of Gorbachev and Yeltsin, open support for Armenian separatism.
        The participation of the 366th regiment in the Khojaly massacre, January 20 and many other events.
        The Turks, led by Nuri Pasha, saved Azerbaijanis from the massacre of the Dashnak gangs back in 1918, that is, Russia in its relations has always shown that we are not relatives, but completely strangers, and Turkey, on the contrary.
        5. Regarding economic relations, Turkey can say all of its chemical industry has been given under the control of Azerbaijani business. In Azerbaijan, the Turks invest not only in the economy, but in education and medicine. One of the best are Turkish lyceums. In the last 10-15 years, the most winners in international Olympiads in subjects are students of Turkish lyceums.
        For the rest, I think you are right, people both in Azerbaijan and in Turkey treat each other with love and respect.
        1. Anzhey V.
          11 May 2021 14: 21
          +1
          Thank you very much for your comment, Albay!

          Your conclusion is wrong, the general who replaced him also graduated from a Soviet school and the Minister of Defense has a Soviet education


          I'm sorry, this is my mistake. In Russia, events of this kind are very often linked up in this very context, and my account is correct.

          there is no relationship of supreme and vassal between Turkey and Azerbaijan. The events of 2009 are a vivid confirmation


          I will not argue, although Turkey still occupies a leading position in this issue. In any case, I did not mean anything prejudicial by this expression - on the contrary, I wanted to reflect a more than fair relationship.

          Active military cooperation between Azerbaijan and Turkey began in 1994 and until 2012 tens of thousands of officers and soldiers trained in Turkey


          That's interesting, thanks. According to all the sources I worked with, it was asserted that until 2012, the bulk of Azerbaijani officers were trained in Russia.

          in this thread mocked at the topic and the brain of people Turkophobe Samsonov


          I don't want to mock anyone, my interest is solely in the most objective analysis)

          I am very interested in Turkey's strategy and have no prejudices in this regard.
          1. Albay
            Albay 11 May 2021 15: 41
            -1
            That's interesting, thanks. According to all the sources with which I worked, it was asserted that until 2012, the bulk of Azerbaijani officers were trained in Russia.

            Now they also go to Russia to study, but mostly senior officers, for example, the chief of staff of one of the units who died in battle, just graduated from the academy in Russia.
            Almost all the current brigade and corps commanders are graduates of Turkish schools. I saw a photo of Major General Barkhudarov in 1994 at a Turkish school, many of my colleagues in those years went to study in Turkey, but there were some who graduated from local schools where Turkish officers taught, but In 1999, something happened and all the Turkish teachers were then asked to leave. Since then, all teachers are their officers. In addition to officers and sergeants, contract soldiers constantly took various courses in Turkey. Courses of command, mountain training, artillerymen, tankers, etc.
            I always liked the system itself. At the school, young cadets are taught that they are the elite of the country, and the training is at the highest level of subjects.
            Largely thanks to this system, back in the early 2000s, hazing in the army and partly corruption were eradicated.
            And in Russian schools, very rarely since 1996, they were sent to study. I can count on the fingers, now, in many respects, because of the language, probably, many young people do not know Russian. I know EMERCOM officers go to study in Russia a lot.
            Regarding the relationship, who is in charge. This, too, can only be amended to the Turkish approach. Their proposals are really mutually beneficial and I honestly do not see the supremacy, maybe leadership, but even then because of all the same a larger state. Look, they even built a relationship with Qatar that Qatar at least tomorrow I would be ready to join any union where there is Turkey.
          2. Albay
            Albay 11 May 2021 15: 56
            -1
            Anzhej, I want to emphasize one more point.
            I understand how difficult it is for you to look for sources in Russian. Most of the "orientalists", "experts" on Turkey and Iran in Russia are of Armenian origin and people who have prejudices against Turkey.
            1. Anzhey V.
              11 May 2021 17: 46
              +1
              Anzhej, I want to emphasize one more point.
              I understand how difficult it is for you to look for sources in Russian. Most of the "orientalists", "experts" on Turkey and Iran in Russia are of Armenian origin and people who have prejudices against Turkey.


              Thank you for confirming my suspicions, I myself noticed a similar trend. A lot of "scientific articles" are written by the authors of Armenian origin, sometimes turning them into agitation.

              Whenever possible, I try to work with Turkish sources, although this, unfortunately, is very problematic due to the lack of knowledge in oriental languages.
              1. vlad.baryatinsky
                vlad.baryatinsky 12 May 2021 11: 45
                +3
                As always, on the level!
                Thank you. Mark my word. Our bias towards Azerbaijan and in general towards the South. The Caucasus will come back to haunt more than once.
                1. Anzhey V.
                  12 May 2021 12: 31
                  +1
                  And I thank you, Vlad!)

                  bias towards Azerbaijan and in general towards the South. Caucasus will come back to haunt more than once


                  I'm afraid, in general, to the entire post-Soviet space ...
      3. Patigorsk2020
        Patigorsk2020 11 May 2021 15: 06
        +4
        Quote: Anjay V.
        First of all, it was necessary to actively work on a real solution to the Karabakh problem. For Azerbaijan, it was a matter of national principle, and it was impossible to close our eyes to this.

        Clever girl. That's right! Finally, I'm starting to see sane people. And then only sofa experts write upstairs. Even by the name of the problem KARABAKH - it has both a meaning and an Azerbaijani translation, and if we take into account that in a certain century, in the time of Moyasei, something belonged to someone, this is stupidity! Then the whole world must be divided .......... Lozers are not seen in the person of Azerbaijan? Is not it.............

        Russia had to stake not on Armenia but on Azerbaijan. The elite of Armenians betrayed the Turks at the beginning of the 20th century. And as we know, a traitor in Africa, a traitor. As they betrayed some, they will betray others. For example, of the last 4 presidents of Armenia, the second are former citizens of Azerbaijan, who killed Azerbaijanis in the most severe form, i.e. traitors. And after that, expect loyalty from them? Nonsense .............
    4. Patigorsk2020
      Patigorsk2020 11 May 2021 14: 55
      +2
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Nothing new in Turkey's politics ... carrot and stick.

      Here reading this and this
      At the same time, it is worthwhile to immediately make a reservation and say that relations between Turkey and Azerbaijan in this case can be viewed as a decent relationship between the overlord and his vassal.

      What are you that the author, both sofa experts. Where do you see the carrot and the whip? Would you like to share?

      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Without Aliyev's support for pro-Turkish forces, this would have been impossible.

      What has Aliev to do with it? When are these 2 peoples identical in language and culture and faith? Moreover, Turkey protects Turkomans in Syria and Iraq, and they are more Azerbaijanis than Turks.

      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Russia had nothing to offer Azerbajan

      Russia has nothing to offer because it chose Armenia, who do not want to be in alliance with Russia, who burn the Russian flag and insult the Russian authorities. That's why.

      Some sofa experts are here.
      1. The comment was deleted.
    5. Aleksandr21
      Aleksandr21 11 May 2021 16: 54
      0
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Turkey, of course, will not rest on this and we should observe the same picture of penetration into our territory ... this will happen secretly and imperceptibly for our society.


      It is already happening, today there was a terrible tragedy in Kazan, and the Turkish authorities have already noted:

      Turkey volunteered to help Tatarstan after the shooting at a school in Kazan. This intention of the Turkish state was announced by the Foreign Minister of the country Mevlut Cavusoglu during a call to the President of Tatarstan Rustam Minnikhanov after the mass shooting, during which 9 people were killed. This was reported by TASS with reference to a source in the Turkish Foreign Ministry.

      “Minister Cavusoglu held talks with the President of the Republic of Tatarstan Rustam Minnikhanov today. He expressed condolences on behalf of our President and on behalf of the entire Turkish nation in connection with the attack on a school in Kazan. Minister Cavusoglu also informed Minnikhanov of his readiness, if necessary, to provide any support, ”the agency quoted the source as saying.


      on the one hand, the desire to help (the neighbor) can only be welcomed, but on the other hand, Turkey is jumping over the federal authorities and is already working on the ground and this is a little annoying ... and in general, in the southern regions of Russia, Turkey's influence is growing, through cultural / religious communication and in the future, as it were, we didn’t turn out sideways.
  2. The comment was deleted.
  3. parusnik
    parusnik 11 May 2021 07: 21
    +2
    A holy place is never empty.
    1. Peak
      Peak 11 May 2021 07: 26
      -1
      Quote: parusnik
      A holy place is never empty.

      "Nature does not tolerate emptiness","Somewhere left, somewhere arrived" - etc...
      1. parusnik
        parusnik 11 May 2021 07: 28
        +1
        Where did it arrive? And how many have departed?
        1. Peak
          Peak 11 May 2021 07: 33
          -1
          Quote: parusnik
          Where did it arrive? And how many have departed?

          Turk - arrived, but here - everywhere, where you don't look, decreased ...
  4. Stirbjorn
    Stirbjorn 11 May 2021 07: 52
    -1
    Separately, it is worth talking about such an aspect of "soft power" as direct relations between the Turkish and Azerbaijani population.
    "Welcome to the nest."
    It is with these words that Turkish border guards meet Azerbaijani citizens in their country.
    What nonsense! What nest ?! wassat I would like to hear the comments of Azerbaijanis on this topic.
    1. Suleyman
      Suleyman 11 May 2021 08: 18
      +6
      No delirium. This is what the Turkish and Azerbaijani border guards say. Yuvanıza hoş geldiniz. Translated means Welcome Home, and literally Yuva is a nest. The word yuva is very often used in Turkic languages. Even in the song of the late Rashib Behbutov, Yurdum, yuvam, məskənimsən Azərbaycanım is sung, My land, my nest, my refuge is Azerbaijan. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gf_oybqJlw
      1. Stirbjorn
        Stirbjorn 11 May 2021 08: 54
        +4
        Nest so nest! I was wrong, Yandex did not give anything out about it, so I concluded that the author was invented here hi
        1. Anzhey V.
          11 May 2021 10: 30
          +2
          I was wrong, Yandex did not give anything out about it, so I concluded that the author was invented here


          It's okay, I didn't believe it at first either)

          Then I talked with three Azerbaijanis and they confirmed that this is exactly what happens.
        2. vlad.baryatinsky
          vlad.baryatinsky 12 May 2021 11: 54
          +2
          Quote: Stirbjorn
          I was wrong,

          You are a Courageous Man!
          1. Stirbjorn
            Stirbjorn 12 May 2021 12: 52
            +2
            Thank you! hi
    2. Albay
      Albay 11 May 2021 16: 13
      +1
      Greetings Stirbjorn!
      What nonsense! What nest ?! wassat I would like to hear the comments of Azerbaijanis on this topic

      This is not nonsense, the author just made a literal translation.
      It means the father's house or the house.
      True, I have not seen such an inscription on the border, I leave it on the author's conscience. The border with Turkey is very small and runs in the Nakhichevan Republic.
      1. Anzhey V.
        11 May 2021 17: 40
        +1
        True, I have not seen such an inscription on the border, I leave it on the author's conscience


        As I was told, Turkish border guards and border control officers greet the citizens of Azerbaijan this way)

        Here for what I bought and sold)
  5. OgnennyiKotik
    OgnennyiKotik 11 May 2021 08: 05
    0
    Another great article. The third "brother" remained, Pakistan.


    1. Anzhey V.
      11 May 2021 10: 26
      +3
      Thank you, Kitty! True, not everyone shares your opinion, judging by the cons)
      1. Albay
        Albay 11 May 2021 16: 16
        +1
        Andrzej, I join the assessment of the cat and do not worry about the minuses. Alas, there are very few thoughtful readers who are interested in what is happening compared to previous years. Minuses are distributed with the attitude of readers to a particular state or to a particular policy.
  6. north 2
    north 2 11 May 2021 08: 20
    -1
    migration policy, as a leverage of foreign policy, is actually not used by Russia. The difficulty here is not only that there are weak statesmen in the offices of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and in the Legislature, but also in the vassal position of Russia, which for some reason has entered into all European institutions for the so-called human rights, and hence the fear of being accused of chauvinism. Mafia and corruption in law enforcement agencies have led to the fact that in Russia virtually all "thieves in law" are now Georgians, Armenians and Azerbaijanis. So they regulate the migration molasses from Georgia and from Armenia and from Azerbaijan. All the markets are under them, and the gold mining in the mines below them. If all of them are cut off oxygen and squeezed home to Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, then the authorities in these countries will explain that Russia should be friends, that no Lavrov, Putin or even Shoigu himself will not be explained that way. Doctors, IT specialists, builders from these countries need a gingerbread. And the mafia and bandits from these countries, and even Islamic fundamentalists from these countries need a whip in the form of tough actions of migration policy ..
    1. Anzhey V.
      11 May 2021 10: 35
      +2
      If all of them are cut off oxygen and squeezed home to Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, then they will explain the authorities in these countries as follows


      Here I disagree with you, despite the fact that I generally support your train of thought)

      You cannot break existing business structures - you need to use them more subtly for your own purposes.

      Business is one of the instruments of foreign policy or "soft power", if you will. If we "squeeze out" them, then the mutual connection will be under attack and we will lose a valuable tool.
      1. Albay
        Albay 11 May 2021 16: 20
        +2
        Here I disagree with you, despite the fact that I generally support your train of thought)

        The trouble of the pseudo-patriots is that not only can they not think globally, but their thinking remained in the 90s. They do not know that most small businessmen from Azerbaijan are now going to Turkey. What can this pseudo-patriot achieve by expelling Azerbaijanis from Russia? They will just go to Turkey, to Ukraine. Who will win?
        What levers of economic influence will remain on Azerbaijan?
  7. flicker
    flicker 11 May 2021 10: 17
    -2
    Summing up, we can say that Ankara has perfectly mastered the art of promoting non-force influence.
    Yeah, "got hold of".
    Before she "took possession", IT was seized (as best they could) by the Anglo-Saxons.
    ---
    This Turkey would have mastered a lot if it itself was not an INSTRUMENT in the hands of the Anglo-Saxons.
    ---
    All these Great Turans, Neo-Ottomanisms and other Anglo-Saxon PROJECTS have been introduced into the brain of the Turkish elite with only one purpose for the Turks to become the Western TARAN against Russia.
    ---
    The Turks are trying to extract something for themselves from this Anglo-Saxon project (a piece of Syria, Cyprus, Greece, Azerbaijani oil and gas, Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan are next) and at the same time avoiding a conflict with Russia - and eat a fish and sit on its tail.
    Like, we will use the Anglo-Saxon project to our advantage.
    But the Anglo-Saxons will not tolerate this for a long time - either they will finish off Erdogan, or they will clash with Russia.
    The consequences of a clash with Russia will have catastrophic consequences for Turkey, up to the emergence of Kurdistan on the territory of Turkey.
    ---
    Turkish soft power is the same chimera as the formation of the Great Turan. yes bully
    1. Anzhey V.
      11 May 2021 10: 51
      +1
      The consequences of a clash with Russia will be catastrophic for Turkey


      If you haven't noticed, Turkey has already faced Russia and is actively undermining our interests in our own zone of influence.

      To fight in the modern world, there is absolutely no need to throw warheads and send tank divisions to slaughter. This is exactly what the Turks demonstrate, and loud slogans with ritual shaking of the fist are powerless here.
      1. Artyom Karagodin
        Artyom Karagodin 11 May 2021 13: 49
        +3
        You need to be able to do everything. Politics is war by peaceful means, war is politics by harsh methods. The same Turks in Libya are waving their fists to themselves quite well, because there is no way without it now. But we, it seems, can only with our fists now. And this is a big problem that will aggravate our situation if the proper conclusions are not drawn.
        1. Anzhey V.
          11 May 2021 14: 11
          +1
          The same Turks in Libya are waving their fists quite well, because there is no way without it now


          As I wrote earlier, fighting in modern warfare takes up an extremely small part of direct political work)

          The Turks do not show any special delicacies in the course of hostilities. They simply eliminate competitors as quickly as possible using the cheapest means possible, and then begin to bite into the economy.
          1. Artyom Karagodin
            Artyom Karagodin 11 May 2021 14: 11
            -1
            How does this contradict the above ??? And then, are they in vain that they strive to develop their defense industry, creating their projects of the latest weapons systems (the same aircraft of the 5th generation)?
            1. Anzhey V.
              11 May 2021 14: 37
              0
              And then, are they in vain that they strive to develop their defense industry, creating their projects of the latest weapons systems (the same aircraft of the 5th generation)?


              I knew that you would say it)

              In fact, the defense industry complex is the same economic instrument. As I said in the article, for a long time it was Russia's monopoly on the Azerbaijani arms market that provided Moscow with leverage over Baku.

              Weapons are no different from selling refrigerators or cars, but their cost and value create the need for after-sales service - and that creates political influence.

              The Turks are building their military-industrial complex at an accelerated pace, primarily for the sake of economic competition with us. They focus on mass and affordable technologies that can be easily scaled and distributed in the post-Soviet republics (which they are doing now).

              You and I have a big misunderstanding in this - I just cannot convey to you the value of the economic component of these processes. Although, however, over time, I will better link these factors.
              1. Artyom Karagodin
                Artyom Karagodin 11 May 2021 15: 24
                0
                I can’t convey to you the value of the economic component of these processes.

                The only misunderstanding is that it is not necessary to convey this to me, this is so understandable)). I'm just trying to draw your attention to the fact that the Turks want to be a sovereign country in every sense, including militarily. And without a sovereign defense-industrial complex, which can basically meet the needs of the armed forces on their own, they will not achieve such sovereignty - they will always be on the sidelines in military terms. They do not have only Bayraktars that depend on foreign components. So they want to work so as not to depend on imports. This will raise the economy, and, of course, will allow you to enter the foreign markets of the same Central Asia, and not only. There is no question of Georgia and Azerbaijan. Everything is so clear there.

                I just get the impression that you insist that "soft" power is more important than military power. I am convinced that these are interconnected things, and one cannot be promoted to the detriment of the other. "Soft" force cannot fight off cruise missiles, if they still decide to use them. Military force cannot arouse sympathy among the population; here we need NGOs, the economy, and so on and so forth.

                Conclusion: both military and "soft power" have their own boundaries and limits, which cannot be exceeded with all the desire. Therefore, you need both.
                1. Anzhey V.
                  11 May 2021 17: 37
                  0
                  We have a mutual understanding with you, but it is completely lost in the essence of the perception of war as a factor)

                  Cruise missiles never fly without objective reasons. This is a very complex system of interconnections in which the armed forces serve as nothing more than a deterrent.

                  Yes, the defense industry and the army play an essential role in this case - they are called upon to inflict irreparable damage on the enemy if he decides to use force.

                  This is more than correctly reflected in the new British strategy: in the presence of nuclear weapons, the rest of the armed forces serve as a means of waging limited war and expeditionary operations of a limited scale. You do not need to have a numerical and sometimes even qualitative superiority over the enemy, if, in the event of an attack, you have the opportunity to turn its central cities into ashes.

                  An offensive war of the classical type in such conditions is simply impossible - and the whole history after the end of the Second World War only confirms this.

                  An offensive war can be fought exclusively by hybrid methods.

                  And it is underway.

                  Yes, the arms race is an integral part of it, but only on condition of vigorous economic activity.

                  As for Turkey, you are fundamentally wrong, because its defense industry is fattened up from the outside and the Turks got such a rapid growth due to the fact that they have full access to the market of Western technologies.

                  Showy whips like the F-35B do not count, as they are essentially a drop in the background of the overall workflow. However, I am not yet ready to discuss this topic in full, tk. it is extremely voluminous and very complex.
                  1. Artyom Karagodin
                    Artyom Karagodin 11 May 2021 19: 14
                    0
                    We have a mutual understanding with you, but it is completely lost in the essence of the perception of war as a factor)

                    We just have different views. And in terms of understanding the tactics of conducting combat operations, I cannot call you an authority for myself.

                    There is nothing fundamentally new in hybrid warfare, it is just that the means of its conduct have stepped forward. And here we are lagging behind. But a hybrid war, alas, may sooner or later turn into a hot phase. Strictly speaking, in this case, the Armed Forces are needed in the first place.

                    Now they say a lot about the fact that there will be no Third World War, and so on. But in this regard, I, frankly, a pessimist. I'm pretty sure it will eventually happen. Of course, I will only be glad to be mistaken.
                    1. Anzhey V.
                      11 May 2021 19: 30
                      0
                      Well, you like Klimov and Timokhin, with whom the Americans are sitting in Poland, which attacked Kaliningrad, which needs to be defended by aircraft carriers - yes, please, no one is claiming this role)

                      I am not interested in tactics at all and I do not touch it at all: for me it is like studying the structure of a piston engine cylinder instead of learning to drive.

                      But a hybrid war, alas, may sooner or later turn into a hot phase.


                      A hybrid war is a hot phase - and the stakes in it are always much higher than in any missile exchange.

                      The problem is that you assess the war from the point of view of the industrial social system - and this approach has outlived its usefulness in the last century.

                      Post-industrial systems are generally not designed for any kind of serious wars - the only exception, perhaps, is China, but this is not a fact.

                      According to the classical definition, great powers are states that are strong enough to wage war on their own, that is, without relying on allies. But this definition is now outdated, since today the question is not how you can fight, with or without allies, but whether it is possible to wage a war at all - except at a distant distance, only by technical means, without being exposed to a serious risk of incurring any -or loss ...

                      And for the seed, so to speak)
                      1. Artyom Karagodin
                        Artyom Karagodin 11 May 2021 19: 36
                        -1
                        Well, you like, without having elementary knowledge, "talk" about what types of weapons we need and what we don’t, please). Nobody pretends to it.

                        And what are you so hooked on Timokhin and Klimov? Well, I defended their position in the comments to your publication before last, so what? Couldn't you find anything smarter how to joke about this? Are you jealous, no way laughing?
                      2. Anzhey V.
                        11 May 2021 19: 54
                        0
                        Well, you like, without having elementary knowledge, "talk" about what types of weapons we need and what we don’t


                        Well, to begin with, I have never done this, and to end with the fact that any of my calculations are based on the work of real strategy experts.

                        Are you so hooked on Timokhin and Klimov?


                        Well, you call them experts, you have not expressed any alternatives. So we cling to what we are rich for)

                        Are you jealous, no way


                        Well, if only a little.
                      3. Artyom Karagodin
                        Artyom Karagodin 11 May 2021 20: 11
                        -1
                        Well, to begin with, I've never done anything like that.

                        So we cling to what we are rich for)

                        Let us recall the Suwalki corridor, which runs along the border with Lithuania.

                        Okay, it makes sense to end the conversation. I regret that I followed your example and went personal. Not worth it. However, you did it first. I thought you were smarter.
                      4. Anzhey V.
                        11 May 2021 20: 36
                        -1
                        Let us recall the Suwalki corridor, which runs along the border with Lithuania.


                        It is very nice that you distort the facts of that conversation.

                        Let us better recall the discussion where Timokhin contradicted himself in the introductory notes, and as a result, he completely merged from the conversation.

                        I will repeat my question - do you also consider a possible situation in which the US troops will control the whole voivodeship of Poland - the aggressor country - while voluntarily allowing it to be clamped on both sides?

                        Or will they still occupy positions on the Lithuanian border so as not to allow themselves to be encircled?

                        Although I do not know at all why it is necessary to discuss this far-fetched nonsense, which has as much to do with reality as pink unicorns.
        2. Knell wardenheart
          Knell wardenheart 11 May 2021 16: 29
          +3
          We could not help but miss Azerbaijan - no matter how many weapons we sold them and how we trained them in the military. At the moment, our country adheres to a regional structure that does not correspond to the interests of this country or the same Georgia or the same Moldova - and these countries will naturally be against us. A culture or economy can slow down these processes or smooth them out, but up to certain limits, this is a kind of "price for maintaining good relations" and not mutual benefit. The price of peace, if you will. In our politics, they did not really understand this, overestimating cultural and historical factors for lack of foresight.
          Our policy on the CIS is flawed and flawed, we have been trying to leave for three decades now, very few people will be satisfied with this for a long time, even in ideal conditions. Moreover, in an imperfect and full of contradictions and frozen conflicts hand in hand with a bunch of conventions.
          1. Albay
            Albay 11 May 2021 20: 05
            +1
            We could not help but miss Azerbaijan - no matter how many weapons we sold them and how we trained them in the military. At the moment, our country adheres to a regional structure that does not correspond to the interests of this country or the same Georgia or the same Moldova - and these countries will naturally be against us. A culture or economy can slow down these processes or smooth them out, but up to certain limits, this is a kind of "price for maintaining good relations" and not mutual benefit. The price of peace, if you will. In our politics, they did not really understand this, overestimating cultural and historical factors for lack of foresight.
            absolutely for sure!
            Our policy on the CIS is vicious and flawed, we have been trying to leave for three decades already, very few people will be satisfied with this for a long time, even in an ideal setting.

            In my opinion, the point is that it is not clear who is shaping this policy. These are people who are very clearly far from foreign policy and diplomacy. The feeling that Russian policy is shaped by the Solovyovs, Kisilevs, Satanovskys and other presenters and participants in political shows on TV.
            1. Knell wardenheart
              Knell wardenheart 11 May 2021 20: 42
              0
              In my opinion, the point is that it is not clear who is shaping this policy. These are people who are very clearly far from foreign policy and diplomacy. The feeling that Russian policy is shaped by the Solovyovs, Kisilevs, Satanovskys and other presenters and participants in political shows on TV.

              As far as I understand, our policy is shaped by people ~ Putin's generation + - as they say. But this is only a very vague time frame - it is much more important what for these people is a kind of historically ideal construction. For this generation in power, it will definitely be the times of the middle Brezhnev - with ABSOLUTELY all the attributes.
              And foreign policy, including - all respect symbols, orders-medals, memorable pompous dates, pretentious foreign policy, some juicy, pompous moves and grand gestures, beautiful speeches accompanied by roars and thunder of applause, hypertrophied popular love in the form of a livestock of babies - milkmaids-pensioners with tenderness and passion looking at the wise sun-faced leader, a kind of sweet sage.
              Success both in those days and now is perceived by people in power something like this - they respect us ostentatiously, they talk about us, give us gifts, they come to us, AGREEMENT WITH US. The question of our benefit from all this is the tenth thing, much more important is the feeling of some kind of epic importance, monolithicity, monumental life-giving potency.
              In the Middle Brezhnev times, the state had money (and now it also has), and there was a feeling that they would always be found now (and we had such a feeling until 2014), and somehow for quite a long time things were creeping uphill almost by themselves , we can say the wind of history was blowing steadily into our sails and the rowers did not really bother (as it was with us from 2004 to 2012-2014 for a start). And the people in power (after Khrushchev) finally got the longed-for calm and well-fed growth, for themselves, for the country - as well as the current elites, one to one. This period lasted long enough to get used to-and-relax. Overgrow with fat, pass a little in terms of grip, dexterity, foresight - and age, yes. Biology is such a thing, as they say there is a time to throw stones, and a time to collect them. Then the stones were collected, and they were collected somehow imperceptibly before perestroika. And now people who make decisions are still willing to collect stones with their minds - it seems to them (as far as I understand) that some order of magical passes "will just return everything as it was." They absolutely DO NOT want to touch, stir up a complex structure, which in their mind worked quite well until 2008 (with a creak), okay, until 2014 (with an even greater creak) - in their opinion, this is, well, the very closest to the ideal position, in which the country will be most comfortable, and they will be most comfortable.
              EVERYTHING AS DURING BREZHNEV'S TIME. Honecker came to suck with him! Ceausescu came and enjoyed it! And delegations come in endlessly, and everyone looks into their mouths, and everyone applauds and listens, listening.
              A kind of "happy groundhog day" - this is, in short, our blue dream of our foreign policy in the former CIS (and in the Brezhnev era in the co. Camp).

              It seems to me that even now, little has changed in this regard - there are some projections and dreams that the West will start to get terribly stupid and come to power in the conditional Georgia / Moldova / Ukraine by WHAT MIRACLE "your man" will creep, well, even if it is there will be something like Pashinyan - we will be satisfied. If only to hold out for the day, but to stand the night. Something like this !
              1. Albay
                Albay 11 May 2021 22: 59
                0
                Knell.
                As I understand it, our policy is shaped by people ~ Putin's generation + - as they say.

                I have to disagree with everything written by you below. It seems to me that the problem is not in the generation of Putin, but in the general thinking of the "elite of society." , Sobchaks, Ponomorev not only showed religious intolerance but also made Nazi statements. The problem is systemic.
  • flicker
    flicker 11 May 2021 16: 17
    -1
    send tank divisions to slaughter.
    Israeli armored divisions will go to slaughter, as was the case in the last war with Hezbollah.
    ---
    Turkey has already clashed with Russia and is actively undermining our interests
    Turkey undermines its interests because it (Turkey) is a project of the Anglo-Saxons, a project that assigns Turkey the role of kamikaze.
    In addition, those who will be drawn into this project (Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, etc.) will follow after Turkey.
    ---
    In general, the idea of ​​the Great Turan is an application for world domination. Those. squeeze the Anglo-Saxons.
    To squeeze the Anglo-Saxons it is necessary to outstrip them technologically - which is unrealistic for Turkey.
    ---
    The same Bayraktars were created not only on imports, but the technological line itself was kindly provided to Turkey by the Americans (read, the Anglo-Saxons).
    They will grow their own competitors.
    ---
    The Turks, under the guise of this Anglo-Saxon project, are trying to squeeze out at least some benefit for themselves (Azerbaijani oil and gas, Cypriot shelves, Libyan reserves, etc.).
    ---
    But all this is under the control of the Anglo-Saxons.
    So, Turkey did not stand here with her soft power.
  • Patigorsk2020
    Patigorsk2020 11 May 2021 21: 05
    0
    Quote: Anjay V.
    If you haven't noticed, Turkey has already faced Russia and is actively undermining our interests in our own zone of influence.

    They are to blame that in the zone of Russian interests, there are also their interests. If you don't know, Assad is killing a Turkoman there. Iraqi Kurds (not all) also come to Turkey. They were invited to Libya by the legitimate government, unlike the Russian one. Turkomans, the same Turks as Turks from Turkey and Azerbaijanis from Azerbaijan. Russia has the interests of Assad, Erdogan has Turkomans (protect their own), Russia has interests in Armenia, and Turkey has interests with the brotherly people of Azerbaijanis, and so on ........ so, like that. Whose interests are legitimate and correct, still need to be discussed.

    Quote: Anjay V.
    This is what the Turks are demonstrating, and loud slogans with ritual shaking of the fist are powerless here.

    I do not think so. Where necessary they beat and where necessary they send 3 funny letters. Once Greece decided to help someone there and sent 4000 soldiers (wanted to send) to which Erdogan said with a mockery on TV that when our football team plays abroad, we send 40.000 fans. The Greeks immediately understood the message and changed their minds.
  • TermNachTer
    TermNachTer 11 May 2021 12: 39
    0
    Quite the same))) Turks invested 13 lards in Azerbaijan, and Azerbaijan back 19. What is this if not "capital pumping"?))) Why are Turkish military schools better than Russians? Well, besides the fact that there is no need to learn Russian)))
    1. Anzhey V.
      11 May 2021 14: 00
      0
      Turks invested 13 lard in Azerbaijan, and Azerbaijan back 19


      Logically, that's what vassal relations are for)

      Why are Turkish military schools better than Russians? Well, besides the fact that there is no need to learn Russian


      Well, after Karabakh, you will prove that the Russians are not worse. Since autumn, Tajiks, Kazakhs, Mongols, and Azerbaijanis have increased the number of cadets undergoing retraining or training in Turkey.

      In Mongolia, there is generally talk about the complete dismissal of officers and generals with Russian military education.

      And in the queue for exercises with the Turkish special operations forces, there will soon be a fight between the military of the post-Soviet republics.

      Ours are no worse, but without confirmation of this in the form of real victories, this does not interest anyone. This, roughly speaking, is the same service sector and advertising and reputation are also needed here. For example, will you go to a doctor who studied well, but whose patients' crowns fall out, or to a doctor who heals well? It's the same here.
      1. Albay
        Albay 11 May 2021 16: 04
        0
        Anjay
        that the Russians are no worse.

        Unfortunately, this is incomparable. It is impossible to compare training in Russian schools with training in Turkish. This is a completely different approach from the training program to the relationship between the students themselves and the cadet teachers. One small example. I remember how we were all surprised how with the arrival of Turkish teachers in the 90s. For years, cadets were completely forbidden to engage in household work. All cleaning, washing, cooking were entrusted to civilians, who received salaries for this. The cadet was drilled into his head that he was the future elite of the country and he came to study military science and only ... should have a sense of his own dignity and very strongly patriotic education ..
        Military training in Turkish schools is definitely better, and this I must emphasize unfortunately for the Russians.
        1. Anzhey V.
          11 May 2021 17: 56
          +2
          Turkish This is a completely different approach from the training program to the relationship between the students themselves and the cadet teachers


          Here I will not argue with you, the difference in approaches is colossal.

          I am reminded of the example of Egypt. When Pakistani instructor pilots arrived there, the Egyptians were struck by the difference in their methods and attitude compared to the Soviet instructors.

          So we understood each other.
          1. Albay
            Albay 11 May 2021 19: 29
            0
            By the way, Pakistan is also following the Turkish path in its military development and training. Many study in Turkish schools and have very close relationships.
        2. TermNachTer
          TermNachTer 11 May 2021 17: 56
          -7
          Something is not evident from the results of the war in Karabakh. NKAO remained Armenian, but I would like to know the costs of this war, both resource and human. But this is a terrible Azerbaijani military secret)))
          1. Anzhey V.
            11 May 2021 19: 33
            +4
            Something is not evident from the results of the war in Karabakh. NKAO remained Armenian


            Sorry for deciding to argue with you, you have there in a parallel universe, it seems, everything is completely different)

            1. TermNachTer
              TermNachTer 11 May 2021 19: 53
              0
              Well, I’m from our universe))) when the war began, Aliyev declared the return of all the occupied territories, including the NKAO. Now take a close look at your universe))) not to mention that the map is not entirely accurate. The Lachin corridor, at the time of the end of hostilities, remained with the Armenians.
              1. Anzhey V.
                11 May 2021 20: 00
                +3
                Aliyev declared the return of all occupied territories, including NKAO


                This is gallop populism. If we speak frankly, Azerbaijan did not really need these territories at all - the question was precisely in revenge over Armenia.

                We are here running around shaking the cards and prove to ourselves that the Turks and Azerbaijanis did not win, and the whole world, including the post-Soviet space, sees it this way: Russia's help is useless, Russia can ignore the beating of its ally for more than a month, Russian equipment and military education are worse than Turkish and Israeli (and it doesn't matter to everyone that Azerbaijan fought mainly with our weapons).

                And no one cares how many meters of Karabakh remained for the Armenians - the main thing is that the reputational blow was monstrous.
                1. TermNachTer
                  TermNachTer 11 May 2021 20: 26
                  -3
                  I don’t know golimy or not so much))) but this, not some kind of Ibrahim, from the Baku slums in a pub, spoke, but the HEAD OF STATE. Or Aliyev is a golimy cormorant who is not responsible for his market. And then the hell were the soldiers driven to the slaughter? Now, by the way, in Baku, very interesting things are happening - a relative of those who are listed as missing are knocking down the thresholds of state institutions, on the subject - where are the relatives? They say a lot of them. Why did Azerbaijan buy weapons from Turkey for 117 million dollars? After all, the victory, the Armenians fled))) Regarding Russia, this is the only side that remained to win. If you had read more carefully, you would have known that it was not Armenia and Azerbaijan that fought, but NKAO and Azerbaijan. NKAO is not even recognized by Armenia, what grounds does Russia have for intervention, especially since the mattress puppet Pashinyan is sitting in Yerevan. Several birds with one stone were killed - Pashinyan is no longer Prime Minister, and will never be. There is a Russian military base in NKAO and will be there for a long time. In Armenia, they understood who was their friend and who was just telling fairy tales. So Russia is all in chocolate and marmalade)))
                  1. Albay
                    Albay 11 May 2021 22: 44
                    +4
                    You can write anything you want. There was no and never was the NKAO army. It was part of the united army of Armenia. 75 percent of the recruits were from Armenia.
                    75 percent of the military equipment of the Armenian army is either damaged or destroyed. NKAO has actually ceased to exist. You can of course calm yourself down that a couple of kilometers more will be counterattacked by Russia and not Azerbaijan, but this is completely unprincipled in the current situation.
                    1. TermNachTer
                      TermNachTer 12 May 2021 12: 13
                      -2
                      You can safely write that 101% was destroyed and damaged))) we have heard enough of these fairy tales during the conflict and have seen enough funny vidosikov. Who is sitting in Stepanakert? Deputy Aliyev for general issues or Aliyev personally? Or maybe the Armenians?))) The only one who won was Moscow. And if you think that in five years the Russians will leave, then you are a very naive person)))
                2. Albay
                  Albay 11 May 2021 22: 52
                  +2
                  Anzhey disagrees about the territories that you see were not needed by Azerbaijan. Why did you decide that?
                  More than 900 thousand residents were expelled from there. Why revenge?
                  People dreamed of liberating their lands. In this war, those who were expelled from their homes by children participated and won, the corps commanders were former refugees, whose parents had lived in inhuman conditions for years.
                  1. Anzhey V.
                    11 May 2021 23: 10
                    0
                    Anzhey disagrees about the territories that you see were not needed by Azerbaijan. Why did you decide that?


                    As you yourself answered ...

                    People dreamed of liberating their lands


                    ... it bore to a greater extent the character of a national idea, an existential need, so to speak. This is not trying to belittle the significance of the process in the eyes of the Azerbaijanis themselves, and I am aware of how important it was from the point of view of national identity.

                    But if we talk about the criteria of economic expediency (and the policy is based precisely on them), then Karabakh itself is not a valuable acquisition for Azerbaijan. Although, however, this, of course, can easily change, given how active the activity there is at the moment.
                    1. Albay
                      Albay 12 May 2021 00: 36
                      0
                      Andrzej
                      it bore to a greater extent the character of a national idea, an existential need, so to speak. By this I am not trying to belittle the significance of the process in the eyes of the Azerbaijanis themselves and I am aware of how important it was from the point of view of national identity.

                      Sorry, but this is a cliché of Armenian propaganda that is hammered into the head of Russian inhabitants. It's not about belittling the victory or the cause of the war, but about its interpretation. The Armenians all the time said they say we are fighting for our lives, and they say Azerbaijanis are for territories.
                      This is a fundamentally misconception.
                      But if we talk about the criteria of economic expediency (and the policy is based precisely on them), then Karabakh itself is not a valuable acquisition for Azerbaijan. Although, however, this, of course, can easily change, given how vigorous activity is unfolding there at the moment.
                      again I do not agree there are huge deposits of natural resources, agricultural land, pastures, water resources.
                      As you yourself answered ..

                      Where?
      2. TermNachTer
        TermNachTer 11 May 2021 17: 54
        -8
        As for me, the next war in Karabakh showed that the Azerbaijani army does not know how to fight. I want to remind you that the war was being prepared for several years, a lot of various weapons and military equipment were purchased, etc. The NKAO militia was against the army, with a little help from Armenia. What's the output? NKAO remained Armenian and will remain in the next 5 years. With such results, it is necessary not to hold a victory parade, but to change the top military and political leadership.
        1. Yujanin
          Yujanin 17 May 2021 14: 51
          -1

          What's the output? NKAO remained Armenian and will remain in the next 5 years.

          So the majority of Armenians lived in NKAO until 91. Or do you think that Azerbaijan should have carried out ethnic cleansing and evicted 100-150 thousand civilians from Karabakh?
          No one in Baku is against it. Let them live. Moreover, Russia is going to contain 150 kopecks. Armenia is out. And at this time we will raise and populate the liberated regions. A lot of work. And there, in 5-10 years, the Armenians of Karabakh will have the opportunity to compare which country they should join.
          1. TermNachTer
            TermNachTer 17 May 2021 15: 30
            0
            Even today I can tell you that Armenians will never live in Azerbaijan. They remember very well the Baku pogroms of 1989 and other pogroms. And there is no need to talk about Moscow propaganda. My company, in 1989, was in Baku, then the Russians were called the occupiers, I had to give a butt in the teeth to calm down. Although my passport says that I am Ukrainian.
            1. Yujanin
              Yujanin 17 May 2021 18: 24
              -1

              Even today I can tell you that Armenians will never live in Azerbaijan.

              We will not hold anyone by force.
              No one will be left in this brush without a serious investment. Will wait.
              1. TermNachTer
                TermNachTer 17 May 2021 19: 56
                0
                Even with very large investments, they will not. Because no one wants to live and expect that tomorrow they will come to the treasure and break the skull)))
  • Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 11 May 2021 16: 21
    +1
    I can’t call it “soft power” - there is clearly a simple long-term influence of a friendly policy with an ever-increasing trade turnover and a good investment climate. There was no need for Turkey to work on Azerbaijan by imposing its own cultural line - as it was noted here, these are culturally and linguistically close countries, there are quite natural cultural interactions between them at the everyday and aesthetic level, akin to interactions between us and the same Blr. Here, efforts would have to be made so that such an interaction does not work out, and not vice versa.
    We have long missed Azerbaijan culturally and diplomatically, for the sake of this, to put it mildly, not close to us mentality, faith, traditions, this is our resource competitor, finally, our double-breathing position on Karabakh clearly did not suit them, with long-term consequences.
    Our foreign policy of the near border is guided by a very unhealthy postulate "to make it old" - but this does not happen, everything flows, everything changes. Unable to resolve critical moments for themselves With the help of the Russian Federation, a number of post-Soviet states have trod their paths. This was logical - our arbitration is not very important now.

    We will continue to disentangle the fruits of the politics of the 90s for a long time, it will be a very sour and tasteless gruel. However, in fairness, I do not really believe in "great Turan" - Turkey is a rather successful state today, but the scale of its capabilities in the region and the world is rather limited by the more or less rigid structure of the established balance, the interests of other players, the objective abilities and economic capabilities of the Turks themselves.
    Turkey may well gain a foothold on our borders and gain some weight, but one should not overestimate the degree of its threat to us.
    1. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 11 May 2021 16: 40
      +1
      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      We will continue to disentangle the fruits of the politics of the 90s for a long time, it will be a very sour and tasteless gruel.

      These are not problems of politics in the 90s, in those days the situation was normal. The failure happened already under the current government. The war with Georgia and Ukraine is something that the next government will need to clean up, the current one shows complete incapacity in these matters.
      1. Knell wardenheart
        Knell wardenheart 11 May 2021 17: 29
        +3
        The war with Georgia is a consequence of the general ineffectiveness of the conservative policy towards the post-Soviet territories. After the collapse of the union, a lot of disputed lands remained, which is quite logical. Our policy was to freeze these conflict situations - contrary to the interests of ALL, including our interests. We, as an ambitious power, were strikingly disregarding other people's ambitions - we did not create an effective mechanism for resolving territorial conflicts, but we liked to stand with a stick somewhere nearby - perhaps this was how we wanted to attract sympathy? This is the case when, having done everything GENERALLY CORRECT, BUT ON THE BOOK, we get a generally incorrect development of the situation in the medium-long term. Karabakh, Transnistria, now the problem of Donbass (even so - the problem of the originally Russian territories within Ukraine) are, in general, mines laid under the post-Soviet unity. As time shows, this all plays against our foreign policy in the traditionally "our" region.
        In the 90s, according to the latest, we still had opportunities - economic, political, cultural, diplomatic - to rake these Augean stables using the methods of normal diplomacy. But no, we preferred to postpone all this in my grandmother's chest "maybe chonit-pockit" - well, here it comes out, at once, like all postponed solutions to problems. All this is a consequence of our not clever policy of the times of the collapse of the country and outright mediocrity who were in power then.
      2. Albay
        Albay 11 May 2021 17: 37
        +2
        Kitty, I dare not to argue with you, these are precisely the problems of the politics of the 90s, which were not corrected in the 2000s. Was everything good before the war with Georgia and Ukraine?
        It was not a failure, but a continuation of that policy of the 90s.
        Insincerity, double standards, outright blackmail of the 90s led to what we have now. I already gave an example, before the start of the war in Karabakh in September. Aliyev called Putin with a request to explain the activity of Russian military aircraft flights to Armenia. Shoigu urgently arrived without blinking said that this building materials are being taken for construction inside the 102 base.
        Well, how can a minister expose himself so ridiculously. In 96 meters, General Rokhlin exposed the secret deliveries of billions of rubles of Russian weapons to Armenia, etc.
        I think your opponent is right!
        1. Anzhey V.
          11 May 2021 18: 02
          0
          September. Aliyev called Putin with a request to explain the activity of flights of Russian military aircraft to Armenia. Shoigu urgently arrived and without batting a blink said that these building materials were being transported for the construction of base 102 inside.


          The situation is quite typical for Russian politics, when Moscow cannot even openly support an ally.

          And then these same people lament in the stands, saying that the whole world has turned its back on Russia)
        2. OgnennyiKotik
          OgnennyiKotik 11 May 2021 18: 07
          +1
          I do not consider him an opponent, by and large I agree with him. I just do not think that all the problems are from the 90s, if you dig so they were laid down when the USSR was created. A large country collapsed, many independent countries emerged with their own problems. Russia had its own huge problems, but in the countries of the former union (except for Eastern Europe and the Baltic states) there was no such rejection and negativity. In the XNUMXs, it became much easier for Russia to exist, the market economy was eliminated, its mechanisms started working, oil began to rise in price. Economic resources have appeared. They were ineptly squandered and plundered. Instead of a positive agenda, dreams of the Empire. Who needs it now?
          Okay, all this is lyrics, you can turn in any direction.
          The blood shed on the borders of Georgia and Ukraine is completely different, before that Russia was a peacemaker, now the enemy of these countries. It just won't fix it.
          1. Albay
            Albay 11 May 2021 19: 03
            +3
            Kitty, you wrote a lot of things correctly, but let's remember the 90s. I'm writing now what I saw. In Azerbaijan, during the collapse of the USSR, 90 percent of the violence had a pro-Russian attitude. If not for the war and outright support for separatism by Russian politicians, then now the majority of the violence For a long time the majority of Azerbaijanis had little in common with the Turks from Turkey. Later they began to get to know each other and the relationship became completely different. I’ll say more, I remember in my childhood half of my yard was Armenians and we often played football, or rather They loved to invite us to interethnic matches and behind our backs they called us Turks, we even fought because of this, because the propaganda of the Soviet era inspired us that the Turks were enemies. So look where the Turks could come from in relations with us and where Russia went from.
            It was the same in Georgia. Do you think the Georgians did not understand and did not see how Russia supports South Ossetia and Abkhazia? Yes, of course, in Georgia and Armenia, nationalist sentiments were more developed in the 90s than in Azerbaijan, but the fact remains a fact precisely in the 90s years, Russia spoiled relations with these republics.
    2. Albay
      Albay 11 May 2021 16: 52
      +2
      Hello Knell.
      A very sensible comment. I will add that Western sources and mainly Turkophobes write and impose on readers the most about "Great Turan". For the average person, such an image of Turkey and Turks is created. The leaders of one party and their supporters have always talked about "Great Turan" for 50 years And it hasn't changed. It's just that Erdogan has become uncontrollable for the West, so they are doing such a stuffing. Proceeding from state and national interests, I believe that Erdogan is acting correctly now, when Western countries want to force him to do as they want, he, as a sober politician, is looking for ways to expand the political and economic influence where it can, in order to maintain its economic potential and political independence of public policy.
  • Boxer
    Boxer 12 May 2021 01: 42
    +1
    It looks like another custom horror story of the Turkophobes. Periodically similar alarmist exhausts are made by Zatulins from the Lazarev club and are always in conjunction with Azerbaijan and the Karabakh war for some reason. And everything is based on the same Armenian radio ... So they write to ostracize, to scare again a little, so that they remember, do not forget (because of the Ukrainian and other events) about the "Turkic" threat.
  • Boxer
    Boxer 12 May 2021 03: 27
    0
    Quote: Anjay V.
    September. Aliyev called Putin with a request to explain the activity of flights of Russian military aircraft to Armenia. Shoigu urgently arrived and without batting a blink said that these building materials were being transported for the construction of base 102 inside.


    The situation is quite typical for Russian politics, when Moscow cannot even openly support an ally.

    And then these same people lament in the stands, saying that the whole world has turned its back on Russia)

    Your logic is strange. Your statement sounds like some kind of headline from an Armenian nationalist newspaper. Isn't the CSTO a defensive alliance? Has anyone attacked Armenia? You propose to fit into any attempt at territorial annexation so-called. "allies"? Isn't one of the goals of this organization the following: .... "protecting on a collective basis the independence, territorial integrity and sovereignty of the member states"? What kind of sovereignty and territorial integrity did Armenia "defend" on the territory of Azerbaijan? Especially by firing ballistic missiles (and other powerful weapons) from their territory in residential areas of cities located very far from Karabakh, even the suburbs of Baku? Moreover, the Armenian Armed Forces did this using the umbrella of the CSTO, using the fact that Azerbaijan could not respond with the same, according to combat calculations, who were striking from the territory of Armenia. Thus, Arm. The Armed Forces practically provoked Azerbaijan to respond on the territory of Armenia in order to force the CSTO to enter the war anyway.
    Now imagine an incredible situation, although the reality may be more terrible than any fantasy, recently everyone witnessed practically military actions between Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan.
    Imagine for a minute that some of the Central Asian countries that are members of the CSTO suddenly rolls off the rails (God forbid, of course) and attacks, say, Afghanistan in an attempt to seize the lands of this state under the pretext that fellow tribesmen live there. Afghanistan is not home to tens of thousands, but already millions and hundreds of thousands of Tajiks, Uzbeks and Turkmens. Afghanistan is obviously stronger militarily than most of the Central Asian countries, especially with their many experienced fanatical Taliban fighters and the support of kindred tribes from Pakistan. The situation with territorial claims to the neighboring country will be like a copy of Karabakh, only on a huge scale (no more than 50 thousand Armenians lived in Karabakh).
    According to your logic, the alliance obliges you to immediately fit into this adventure, moreover, a hopeless and terrifying one in terms of consequences for everyone?
  • Suleyman
    Suleyman 12 May 2021 10: 46
    +1
    Quote: Anjay V.
    The situation is quite typical for Russian politics, when Moscow cannot even openly support an ally.

    And since when did Moscow become an ally of the self-proclaimed NKAO?
  • Butchcassidy
    Butchcassidy 12 May 2021 17: 42
    -1
    The article is incomplete without an excursion into history (1921, Turkish general Nuri Pasha, ADR and all that) + the last interaction in Karabakh is not sufficiently disclosed.

    Everything returns to normal - Az. R. is returning to the status of an anti-Iranian political project in Turkey, losing his de facto sovereignty.
  • Comrade Kim
    Comrade Kim 14 May 2021 01: 04
    -1
    Quote: PiK
    In Turkey, Azerbaijanis - 3 million. 

    Quote: Krasnodar
    minimum crime.

    The population of many Russian cities will not agree with the level of ethnic crime:

    https://t.me/mnogonazi/6034
  • Suleyman
    Suleyman 18 May 2021 13: 31
    0
    Quote: TermNachTER
    Armenians will never live in Azerbaijan.

    Yah! Are you talking about 40 Armenians who have lived all this time and are still living in Azerbaijan (000 of which only in Baku)? laughing